its because I want the concept of ghoulish gouger to be utilised more
#suggestions-discussion
chrome cedar
heady storm
Uhhh.
hollow shell
That's
quite different from Rainbow Rod
heady storm
That's a whole other weapon from another class. ^
hollow shell
??
heady storm
What does that have to do with the Rainbow Rod suggestion?
hollow shell
Seashell Boomerang would have been a more apt comparison, I think
Stacking on top of each other to create a ball of death
"rack up damage" in Ghoulish's case (presumably taken from the wiki page) just means it deals a lot of DPS
violet dagger
Scythe train
hollow shell
btw @waxen pine @unreal viper sorry your suggs got deleted, my fault
Got em screenshotted if you wanna repost em, I will approve
waxen pine
i reposted it 👍
violet dagger
That was fast
hollow shell
Thanks
violet dagger
U got it on a Google doc or smth
unreal viper
Thanks for telling me rover. I’ve been having issues with my computer today, so I might not be able to repost it for a bit.
hollow shell
Alright
I can transcribe it real quick and you can copy-paste it into posting
if you'd like
In the meantime
Does Saxor's sugg look good?
(It took me a second to realize what he was suggesting but I understand now)
heady storm
How are you supposed to obtain unsafe variants of those in the first place though?
hollow shell
You can craft the unsafe Navystone Walls
but you cannot craft unsafe Eutrophic Sand Walls, therefore it's an inconsistency
unreal viper
I’d like if you did that.
hollow shell
The problem is also that crafting unsafe Navystone Walls is irreversible, but the safe Navystone Wall recipe is reversible
so, another inconsistency
And, aight
violet dagger
and if a boss were to ever be added to sunken sea, then it would help with that
hollow shell
Change the description of the Old Die.
The Old Die is a phm accessory that changes the random deviation of weapon damage from -+15% to -25% and +30%. Also, using rogue weapons or equipping a rogue armor set causes the values to be rolled twice, with the higher value being chosen. This is not reflected in the description of the item, which only states "Increases the randomness of attack damage". The description should be changed to inform people of this. It would also be helpful if the description states the exact range of the random deviations, to give the player a better idea of what it does.
heady storm
@unreal viper Here.
hollow shell
caps'd it too
violet dagger
what people see that sugg as:
Change the description of the Old Die.
what I see: what is this random item I've never heard of
heady storm
Indeed. 
violet dagger
unintentional pun or whatever
heady storm
It's a joke on two different things.
- Being that you would never know it existed unless you got the Bandit NPC.
- Being die are infact random outcomes.
violet dagger
I usually never get bandit since i get the money collector from luiafk which puts all coins in piggy
wait a minute that might be a good idea
make the bandit req include coins in the piggy bank
heady storm
Ahhhh.
violet dagger
and have 1 plat in inv, what if it included coins in your pig
hollow shell
It would also be nice if we could apply that to the Merchant
because he too only detects money in your inventory
so if he dies, you need to unequip your Money Collector to get him to respawn
heady storm
Yeah I see.
heady storm
=P
hollow shell
(which is especially annoying because the Nurse will not move in unless the Merchant is moved in, so if they both die you have to wait extra long)
keen carbon
Pretty sure the merchant will move in regardless of how much money you have as long as he's moved in once before
hollow shell
You'd think so, that is how most NPCs behave after all
but in my experience, not so
violet dagger
I might think up of some reasoning later for the sugg and post it if someone hasn't already taken it by then
keen carbon
oh yeah I just looked it up you're right
hollow shell
Would be a good suggestion.
distant gyro
i think dom did that 5 updates ago
hollow shell
Doesn't even need to be exclusively Money Collector shenanigans, cuz it's a bad idea to have a whole platinum in your inventory at any point
Did he?
keen carbon
Before yesterday I'd never even seen the bandit because I use the money collector
violet dagger
that refund for reforges could def be a cool thing
and having a easier move in helps with getting that
void kelp
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/699359022364491868/723814582950559764 this suggestion is hard to read / understand
hollow shell
Indeed
@latent pilot If you could reword your suggestion to more clearly explain what you want, and your reasoning, that would be appreciated
sand umbra
it seems pretty clear to me
- add recipe allowing unsafe Navystone Walls to be transmogrified back into Navystone
- add an unsafe variant of Eutrophic Sand Walls to go with unsafe Navystone Walls
not the best grammar and such I've seen, but the intention seems clear enough
whole sedge
yeah
ashen warren
If the boss rush gets updated, i wonder which tier would Queen slime & Empress of light would be
violet dagger
Eol boss rush changes: always enraged and has Lorde ai
ashen warren
I want queen slime to be paired with king slime during the boss rush
Since i saw a suggestion that says to make the boss rush harder by pairing certain bosses: Corruption Duo(Hiveming/EoW), Crimson Duo(Perfs/Brain), Mecha mayhem
hollow shell
Does izzy's suggestion look good?
onyx river
Yeah, seems good to me
hollow shell
Alright then
tho while I have the chance I will say
@indigo fog Could you pop a TL;DR into your reason?
(If you don't think it's necessary then that's fine, I just think it'd help a tad)
hollow shell
Thank you 👍
tawny garden
Does Skillo's sugg have problems? I don't think it does, and It has only 4 hours to live
I feel like the future suggbot with its remind feature that Rover wanted
void kelp
the Gehenna one is a bluecheck isn’t it.
tawny garden
I don't remember similar suggs
And if you search #suggestions-voting with the word "Gehenna", you won't find anything after the cut-off point (beside izzy's sugg)
void kelp
ye I meant that one
tawny garden
it's not
void kelp
Huh. neat
tawny garden
could you approve Skillo's?
void kelp
done!
tawny garden
(Yay, a clear #suggestions-posting)
violet dagger
wait a moment I have my suggestion that I came up with yesterday prepared
just gotta finalize my reasoning and post
ashen warren
@hollow shell so a message here pinging the suggestion owner 4 hrs and 30 mins prior to when it'd be due for deletion? doable but the bot's perms would need adjusting to allow for that
formal cobalt
My suggestion about the loop of Universal Collapse got a thumbs up
eager jackal
I designed a massive boss fight where yharim controls burning vines with the staff in the calamity symbol
unreal viper
Discuss it in calamity mod talk.
eager jackal
oh ok
unreal viper
Too much effort.
frail mantle
cause the devs already know what bosses they have planned
hollow shell
@ashen warren I was thinking it'd just send a message without pinging but now that I think about it, a ping would be a good idea, it'd guarantee some action gets taken
void kelp
would it ping the creator of the sugg ?
ashen warren
obv
void kelp
tbh the message can ask to ping a mod or rover
tawny garden
ah, ok
void kelp
smth like
tawny garden
I'm thinking of stuff which is overcomplicated
void kelp
“Your suggestion is going to be deleted due to not being approved; if you would like your suggestion to be submitted to #suggestions-voting ask for help on improving it and then ping a mod or rover” or smth
ashen warren
i v highly doubt a suggestion is going to be deleted due to being forgotten by as many mods as there are, and rover combined 
tawny garden
It has happened previously
void kelp
tbh, the most likely is just overlooked 
tawny garden
people also pinged mods (usually spider) to approve stuff
void kelp
tawny garden
but sometimes nobody pinged and a valid sugg was deleted 
ashen warren
i presume the suggestion was easily reposted with the help of a mod ye? or did they have to retype everything
tawny garden
I think they didn't retype it at all
but at the beginning of the overhauled sugg era Merk had to repost somebody's sugg manually
btw, this is why Rover even had this idea
hollow shell
Yeah
Suggs quite often get to near-deletion timeframes, and I do ask for if its fine and/or ping the owner
but I ain't lookin in this chat all the time, even if I do some action prior to its deletion I could forget to truly approve it in however long I have left to
ashen warren
would it change anything when they don't respond to the initial ping? since i know people're often pinged like, soon after they post and the sugg isn't valid/good to be posted
hollow shell
Well the problem is suggs can be good and still stay in the channel
to like, give enough time for people to offer feedback that weren't around for the initial posting
(and as for recovering dead suggs, I don't have access to the audit logs / moderator bot corner)
hollow shell
I agree with Saxor's sugg
I'm a little confused on what he means in the first line of his reason tho
tawny garden
@thin burrow you gotta put the reason in the same message as the header
use Shift+enter
hollow shell
(There's slow mode, so he couldn't try if he wanted to)
lunar ibex
And no future boss ideas are allowed
lunar ibex
I thought he misspelled Yharim
hollow shell
... it probably is, actually
lunar ibex
Srry
hollow shell
yeah
tawny garden
yeah, he doesn't have arms 
lunar ibex
And the other weapons
hollow shell
It'd be funny seeing Yharon shoot a big laser beam
lunar ibex
And using a sword
tawny garden
or chickens 
lunar ibex
That could be a mod
tawny garden
a mod of a mod..?
lunar ibex
Mod addon
hollow shell
There's a few of those for Calamity
tawny garden
yeah, I know
lunar ibex
The untamed one is not on mod browser sadly
thin burrow
@tawny garden ?
faint needle
Why ping him
void kelp
Future content is a no, should I go delete this suggestion?
frail mantle
you need to explain why you want this change to happen in your suggestion
hollow shell
Yeah Alex future boss suggestions aren't allowed
thin burrow
sorry
frail mantle
no worries
thin burrow
i'll delete it
hollow shell
and this is especially confusing because you mispelled Yharim in your main line
void kelp
frail mantle
just remember to read the Don'ts document next time
faint needle
Also you mispelled yharim every time lol
frail mantle
thin burrow
f sry
hollow shell
pretty sure you are indeed trying to kill each other
faint needle
Yeah
thin burrow
i mean if you fight scal after she's an npc and your trying to kill her, that wouldn't make sense, right?
onyx river
She isn't an npc doe
hollow shell
(not yet at least)
lunar ibex
It's only untamed calamity thing
hollow shell
And I think the thing is you're trying to kill her but you just can't
thin burrow
IF MY SUGGESTION WAS IMPLEMENTED
thin burrow
but if you defeat yharim, which Scal was never strong enought to beat, you would have the power to kill her right?
unkempt bolt
don't docs smh
thin burrow
aight
unkempt bolt
who says scal could never beat yharon
thin burrow
the lore
hollow shell
You mean Yharim?
onyx river
She just doesn't try bc she's o her side
tawny garden
I confused them for a while too
tawny garden
we had a lot of so-called cool™️ ideas, that's why the doc came into existence
thin burrow
sad
although my ideas weren't really about the boss fight, but about the aftermath and summoning items for it
tawny garden
and even if rn there exist really cool ideas, they can't be posted, because you can't open the door to "just the sensible people"
hollow shell
Should just use your computer's default, right?
hollow shell
Then, change your comp's default browser
thin burrow
aight thank you
hollow shell
np
thin burrow
i wish there was like a channel that mods could put ideas that don't follow the rules of the suggestions posting, but are still interesting nontheless.
not that my suggestion would go there anyways
hollow shell
That would be very silly and I definitely did not have the same idea 4 months ago and never opened it up to the public
frail mantle
thin burrow
lol i thought that the idea sounded like something others would have thought of
both the suggestion and the
i wish there was like a channel that mods could put ideas that don't follow the rules of the suggestions posting, but are still interesting nontheless.
not that my suggestion would go there anyways
@thin burrow
tawny garden
, that channel would be filled by SISs
hollow shell
Of course
subtle oracle
god
ashen warren
what
hollow shell
@ashen warren what even
hollow shell
You try Deathmode?
hollow shell
aight
hollow shell
Anyway your suggestion is really weird and not formatted nearly correctly
ashen warren
ik man
i dont want to make a suggestion for them to use
i want them to think of something
hollow shell
..
ashen warren
if they will look at it
gray nebula
that isn't even a suggestion
hollow shell
I mean, okay
Fair enough that you don't want to get into the specifics, because that is not recommended
However, you do need to redo your suggestion so the bot will accept its formatting
You need to have your main idea at the top on a separate line (shift+enter) and then you need to explain your reasoning
ashen warren
alright i guess i'll go into specifics then
ashen warren
i get what you mean i need to format it
onyx river
Well i mean tbh i may not understand the idea fully but if do, arn''t boss suggs not allowed anyways
gray nebula
you can't suggest new bosses yeah
onyx river
You need a first line with the main idea of your sugg then the actual developement in a pargraph or more
wooden wedge
read the don'ts doc
gray nebula
but idk if that suggestion even is about making a new boss
hollow shell
Whole new bosses can't be suggested yeah
I don't know if that's what you're trying to suggest though
hollow shell
(because, again, your sugg is really weird and unclear)
hollow shell
oh
gray nebula
yeah this is a question not a suggestion
hollow shell
That's what you meant
gray nebula
???
hollow shell
I thought you meant adding a new phase to SCal where she and her brothers combine into a final form or whatever
hollow shell
Thanks
ashen warren
its that her brothers are equal strength and they could fuse into ML's hands or something
and calamitas is at ML's head
but thats a boss suggestion
ashen warren
no worries man
can i ask of one thing though
i don't care what it is.. please make a stronger boss something that will take ages to beat and perfect
like mutant from fargo's soul mod
hollow shell
We've got 4 more bosses planned for the future
ashen warren
:OOOO
wooden wedge
check the pins in #calamity-mod-talk
ashen warren
also holy fuck is there a way i can appreciate you guys for even being here and responding
with a 70k+ member discord
you guys are like
hollow shell
This one specifically
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/225030931008847874/605900368093642752
onyx river
I feel like you might also be intrested in the lore pinned in #lore-discussion
ashen warren
i have every single lore piece stored in my defenders forge lmao
onyx river
The doc is much more in depth than the lore pieces(like 50 pages long)
ashen warren
i think a dev criticizing my intelligence is probably the best thing ive had from the 1 hour of being in here
hollow shell
lol
Glad to hear it
... anyway I'll just delete the suggestion that's in Posting rn
ashen warren
yeah sure thing
tawny garden
What was the sugg?
hollow shell
something about SCal + Moon Lord combining
tawny garden
weak field
No.
ashen warren
:(
bro are you fucking stupid
your suggesting final boss
okay and how is that a bad thing
i just wanted to suggest something
ashen warren
^
hollow shell
and we already have bosses planned
frail mantle
also no need to be aggressive, signus
ashen warren
lol
weak field
I mean
When isn't signus the envoy aggressive
They literally ram us and trying to kill us with lamps
hollow shell
ok
rose latch
Does the elemental quiver actually cause lag?
ashen warren
For me it does
rose latch
What's the probability of it splitting
whole sedge
From my experiences it only drops my FPS by like 10-15 during bossfights with fancy arrows
ashen warren
Consider the fact that some people are using lower end pcs
When projectiles split, it creates more of them, meaning the pc has to process a little more.
rose latch
But The chance if it splitting isn't that high
hot wind
elemental quiver with vanquisher arrows make my pc explode
whole sedge
Plus could always just switch it out for another accessory temporarily if you don't want them to split
ashen warren
True
rose latch
Wait but if the chance if the projectiles splitting is only like 10% then why would it cause a lot of lag
ashen warren
High fire rate
rose latch
I'm not sure what the actual probability is
ashen warren
Or weapon that fire multiple projectiles (monsoon)
rose latch
But with high fire rate then the projectiles it shoots would be more of a problem
rose latch
But The quiver isn't the main part of the problem
hollow shell
but it exacerbates it
ashen warren
^
rose latch
I guess adding the visibility thing wouldn't be too hard though
hollow shell
I'll see if I can find the split chance but I do know it's high enough to be happening all the time if you have a high fire rate weapon, i.e. almost all weapons at that point in the game
ashen warren
Dang
hollow shell
okay yeah, that is correct
ashen warren
I didn't expect it to be that high holy
rose latch
Ok 30% would be a problem
rose latch
Wait I kinda want to try halibut cannon with quiver now
unreal viper
Good sugg quanta 👍
ashen warren
Agreed
unkempt bolt
i hadn't used entropy's after its nerf
it's honestly insane how bad it is lol
i would not be surprised at all if it's worse than optic staff
unkempt bolt
sounds right
toxic kettle
imagine a "Buff Entropy's Vigil" sugg back when it melted everything
smoky wagon
Entropy’s is fine for plantera
But nothing else really
Could use a small buff maybe
And nerf brimseekers and black hawks
Also buff plantation staff
rose latch
Change the projectiles of the cosmic immaterializer
Right now some of the projectiles it fires are direct recolours of the brimstone darts that Supreme Calamitas fires. Since the projectiles cycle through the rainbow, sometimes if the projectiles cycle to red, it is hard to tell what are your attacks and what are her attacks. To fix this, either the sprite of the projectiles could be changed to something that can be differentiated from the brimstone darts, or they could be changed so that they don't cycle through the colours and therefore can be told apart from the brimstone darts.
Is this good?
smoky wagon
How on earth did plantera take 5 minutes with entropy’s vigil?
It took me 2 minutes
And it wasnt a glass cannon build either
My setup had warding accessories and ambroisal ampoule
Well actually
I used dreadmine staff at the same time
If you use only vigil then maybe
wooden wedge
@sterile burrow you need a better reason than "X doesn't exist so add X"
sterile burrow
Oh, mb
toxic kettle
I mean it makes sense to me
violet dagger
O nice the universal collapse sugg got implemented
sterile burrow
yeah, I see
violet dagger
This new sugg I can relate with
sterile burrow
Well, finding a reason to add additional slimes to the slime rain could be...
violet dagger
They use the exact same design as brimstone darts
sterile burrow
Mostly farming, I guess
violet dagger
I can't tell you how many times I tried to dodge my immat's darts
sterile burrow
it would give the slime rain a bit more use if you were to get it really early, and could help farm life alloy ores in the lategame, but other than that, nope
violet dagger
I finished mine yesterday
Maybe have them as a rainbow but they stay one color for the scal fight maybe green
rose latch
true
unkempt bolt
yeah i was just using entropy's, nothing else
obv armor and accs and potions, but no other weapons besides golden gun
hexed spade
entropy did less then black hawk, an early hm weapon that is obtainable immediately
unkempt bolt
entropy is probably worse than herrings
like i said in my sugg, it was in a fine state prior to the bugs
so im not sure why it was nerfed in addition to fixing the bugs
fiery rapids
@hollow shell i don't know if this is the right place to say this but on the wiki the sprite for the swords summoned by the gladiator's locket need to be changed as they're the old sprite
i thought i would tell you because you're the wiki administrator
wooden wedge
wiki stuff is for the wiki channel
fiery rapids
oh thanks
wooden wedge
@vocal grotto soul to be claimed
fiery rapids
i didnt know that was also for wiki changes
hollow shell
I'll fix it anyway
wooden wedge
all wiki stuff is for the wiki channels iirc
fiery rapids
i also forgot it was there
fiery rapids
because i never use that channel
fiery rapids
i thought you were talking about the wiki lookup channel
fiery rapids
ok so i was kind of right
wooden wedge
que
thin burrow
sry
hexed spade
im not sure if anyone said this but scoria slimes dont exist
hexed spade
[[chaotic slime]]
violet dagger
[[Chaotic_Puffer]]
red stormBOT
hexed spade
i know there is a removed slime
violet dagger
anyways scoria ore is renewable
hexed spade
[[chaos slime]]
violet dagger
?
tawny garden
[[Chaos Slime]]
red stormBOT
tawny garden
capitalization
hexed spade
whoops
ashen warren
Was my suggestion free of issues, or are there things that need fixed?
void kelp
Ye it’s valid
hollow shell
alright then
ashen warren
Ty
void kelp
@unkempt bolt just double checking— those times are from rev testing?
ashen warren
:)
hollow shell
@latent pilot Your sugg is good but I would change "basicly" in your first reason sentence into "often", that would make more sense
You could also mention that your change would be good for making burst damage options like Adrenaline less easy to waste
unkempt bolt
no adrenaline
void kelp
ye
violet dagger
I think one thing with the quiver splitting sugg if it were implemented is that if visibility is off you get a dmg boost since turning off splitting can decrease your dmg
formal cobalt
Hey! My suggestion made it in!
void kelp
@true inlet specific item suggestions are not allowed
true inlet
Ok
void kelp
neither are memes
true inlet
That was both practically
unkempt bolt
people fr unable to read the doc
void kelp
alright quanta, your sugg was validated
foggy plover
yea entropys really needs a buff, it got slapped hard
unkempt bolt
like i knew it was bad but hot damn
hollow shell
@sterile burrow What's going on with your suggestion?
violet dagger
that could be an interesting sugg
can't wait until auric slimes tho
slime rain post yharon be like B I G S L I M E I N C O M I N G
sterile burrow
@hollow shell Unplanned, wild reasonless banter
hollow shell
You can edit it to be more cohesive
sterile burrow
The idea itself feels pretty clear
rose latch
maybe remove 'the only reason i could think of'
hollow shell
(Most people will see the sugg for the first time after it gets finished and approved, so your "Edit" notifs won't make much sense)
sterile burrow
It'sjust, I have no reasons, and apparently you need one
Okay so what should I remove
rose latch
making farming easier is a reason
hollow shell
you don't need
" just throwing it out there || edit 3 : the only reason I could see is "
You can integrate the reason that you have into your suggestion
I'll give another reason for you:
It makes Slime Rains more interesting and worthwhile at any point in the game that isn't the very beginning.
It could actually be a welcome event, a lucky bounty for free loot, rather than something completely ineffectual or a time-waster
sterile burrow
Righty, thanks, should be good now
hollow shell
You wanna add the thing I proposed or do you think it's fine without it
@sterile burrow
ashen warren
What does it mean by "universal collapse will now loop seamlessly"?
hollow shell
Currently, it fades out and the intro starts back up again
ashen warren
Ah, thanks
hollow shell
Now, the intro only plays once and the rest of the song loops
violet dagger
you know those bells that play at the beginning?
hollow shell
like the music video
violet dagger
they used to play in each loop
now they only do it after sentinels are defeated/doggo is about to spawn in p2
hollow shell
gseal you should mention moving in in your main line, right now it sounds like you could be talking about their shops
violet dagger
good idea
I mainly don't care abt merchant since by the time you get him you probably don't have money collector
hollow shell
I am exceedingly sure he refuses to return after dying, if you have no money in your inventory
ashen warren
Has someone already made a suggestion to rework the boss rush yet?
violet dagger
the reasoning applies to merchant it's just that i wanted to focus on bandit more since 1 platinum is like 100x the merchant req
yes hat kid
it got denied tho
hollow shell
hollow shell
heh
sterile burrow
NowtobedIgothankyou
void kelp
don’t advertise your suggestion pls
radiant meadow
I tried making bandit check for piggy bank/safe/defender's forge once, but I couldn't get it to work
So instead I made the plat a 1 time requirement
violet dagger
Rip
hollow shell
Could still remain as a suggestion to show player desire, and maybe someone will figure it out eventually
heady storm
Wouldn't this just punish players for not killing him fast enough?
And if so the increase to the players damage would make it redundant.
golden narwhal
Is this an sis of sorts?
wooden wedge
Sounds like an SIS
heady storm
Kinda.
Saying specific stuff about it.
That's the dev's decision on what it should do. @coarse umbra
wooden wedge
I would say that this counts as an SIS, but that it's not an item
golden narwhal
Ye
heady storm
The debuff itself could be slowly lowering your health, while also increasing damage.
Remove this.
coarse umbra
I know but I'm just giving sn example
wooden wedge
And also add a reason why it should be added
heady storm
^
golden narwhal
There's partially one
heady storm
Your specifying what it could potentially do.
golden narwhal
But ... not really either
golden narwhal
Ye, lore is based on the game, not vice versa generally
coarse umbra
Should include a better reason?
golden narwhal
I mean, there's 'buff vanilla's final boss'
coarse umbra
But is that good enough
wooden wedge
Also I thought ML being Cthulhus older brother wasn't calamity lore
But vanilla lore
golden narwhal
Not really, since there are other ways of doing so
coarse umbra
It's not even calamity lore it's Lovecraftian
golden narwhal
iirc they both just dark gods in calam
coarse umbra
Old ones driving people insane
golden narwhal
Not sure if they're related
wooden wedge
Moon Lord doesn't exist in Lovecraft stories iirc
coarse umbra
But cthulhu does
wooden wedge
Yeah but read your sugg
golden narwhal
ML isn't Cthulhu in calamity
coarse umbra
I know lore is always subject to change, and who moonlord is but, He is based off Cthulhu wether it was by vanilla devs or not
coarse umbra
yeah fair enough
golden narwhal
also, the terrarian has already seen a lot of weird and horrendous shit, not sure how a big moon man is scarier
coarse umbra
It's not about scary its's about human brain power and proscesing a cosmic entity
golden narwhal
Fair enough
coarse umbra
Should my remove my suggestion on what the debuff could do?
golden narwhal
Probably
hollow shell
You shouldn't give it an actual name, is the issue
It'd be much better if you said something like "an insanity-related debuff"
instead of "the Debuff Descent to Madness"
hollow shell
Quick question
.. Where does it say Moon Lord is Cthulhu's "brother" in Calamity's lore?
coarse umbra
Lol was told by someone in lore, probably shouldn't have listened
there removed
Just trying to make it harder for myself
unkempt bolt
i’ve heard it mentioned multiple times
coarse umbra
either way what do you think
hollow shell
I think it's a tad weak in concept but it's prolly valid as a suggestion
wooden wedge
Again
coarse umbra
Weak in concept?
coarse umbra
yeah well Besides making moon lord harder and how much he looks like cthulhu, thats why I wanted to suggest
I wanted it to fit
hollow shell
Like I think your sugg's a bit of a stretch, a bit specific
but you do have reasoning for it, for multiple factors even, so I think it's valid (even if I don't buy it 100%)
coarse umbra
But do you think it would be a cool feature?
golden narwhal
Quick kinda irrelevant pop-in: ml is (hinted to be) cthulhu in vanilla, so the lore in the sugg is alright
coarse umbra
I want him to feel more powerful and currently some pre moon lord bosses kinda rival him
hollow shell
Even if so, vanilla lore =/= Calamity lore
golden narwhal
Ye
coarse umbra
It's not even for lore anymore
golden narwhal
Sugg seems valid now
coarse umbra
It's my first suggestion, so it makes sense it would be alittle lackluster
coarse umbra
should I cut that out?
hollow shell
Nah there's something there
It should just be reworded
Makes it sound like you'll be affecting the vanilla game with this change
hollow shell
... indeed
hollow shell
I don't really think that makes it invalid
wooden wedge
I mean not invalid
But that if it's this subjective it's probably not gonna get a lot of votes
and I still don't like this reasoning since to me it says "ML is easy in rev, give it another debuff that it can inflict"
Which doesn't sound like it'd make it harder, just more annoying
Since debuffs in terraria serve more as an annoyance than an actual threat
neat citrus
What do you mean? Confusion is devastating to a terratian and can easily kill you
Confusion is more threatening than moon lord
onyx river
You prolly have confusion immunity by ml tho
onyx river
I wouldn't say unfair, but it should definitely have a way more obvious way to tell you that you got the debuff and that it will run out soon
unkempt bolt
i mean from feral bite you just have a random chance to get it
meaning you somehow have to prepare for inverted controls at any point in time while it's active
waxen pine
ML is already hard enough in rev i don’t think he needs a debuff
unkempt bolt
boc is the only boss to inflict confusion by itself to my knowledge
and it should stay that way
fucking with the player's control is a very annoying way to do challenge
waxen pine
technically duke and OD can via feral bite but eh
unkempt bolt
by itself
unkempt bolt
DoT debuffs usually aren't an issue because most of them are negated by asgard's valor
though not after next update so that's nice
unkempt bolt
and it shouldn't
waxen pine
even if you happened to give ML a DoT it doesn’t make the fight any more challenging it’s just effectively making his attacks hit harder
wooden wedge
I'd rather a buff overhaul than adding other buffs/debuffs
unkempt bolt
there's definitely ways to make ML harder/improve ML that don't involve debuffs
because it just kinda feels like a lazy slapped-on way of making something more challenging
wooden wedge
And it's hard to do since subjectivity plays a huge role in the difficulty of current ML
unkempt bolt
i like current ML but i dont think that's a popular opinion
a lot of people find he's easy, a lot find he's really hard
in rev+, that is
waxen pine
also the only way i see of making it insanity-related is just giving it BoC effect
unkempt bolt
ML inflicts shroomed
onyx river
Ehhh, blackout exists(altough i don't necessarily think it's a good idea)
unkempt bolt
yeah not at all
especially since you kinda need to see a lot of the screen for ML
to see eyes opening
cus the projectiles go way too fast to just react to unless you're far away
waxen pine
i too love counting timings for eye openings and the true eye timings
waxen pine
anywho saxor’s and portal’s suggestions look fine to me
unkempt bolt
yeah looks good to me as well
waxen pine
i think sirpizza’s should focus more on disabling the color changing during some boss fights
unkempt bolt
wulfrum slimes in slime rain could be brought up as a consistency issue tbh
onyx river
Ehh, i don't really agree on the Yharon is always offscrenn bc he's too dangerous if onscreen so you want to run away part, i feel like adren timing is the biggest reasonning here but otherwise saxor's seem good
unkempt bolt
yharon can be offscreen quite often during phase transitions
though this problem could be remedied entirely by just knowing when they are
no boss goes invincible randomly
besides siren with her ice shield
waxen pine
i’m all for general QoL so i dont have much complaint
onyx river
Yeah, but it's not like you absolutely want him offscreen at all times or you'll die
crude geode
Also, Yharon does have some roaring and pauses on the mini map whenever he transitions phases.
onyx river
About Portal's, it's just the "hopefully not sugged before" part that bothers me since it doesn't bring anything to the actual sugg but otherwise neat idea
tawny gyro
not to mention all phase changes happen at obvious percents (like 50%, 75% etc)
unkempt bolt
they're all multiples of 5 to my knowledge
more often multiples of 10 or 25
idk this just seems like a qol that removes an aspect of learning the boss
waxen pine
yeah tbf it takes like 30s to open the wiki and look up the phase transitions
onyx river
Ehhhhh, you should prolly not have to look at the wiki, but you don't really have to at the same time
dapper coral
This is basically asking to remove a large chunk of gameplay
Farming for boss summons is pretty important and breaks up the monotony of trying bosses over and over again
ashen warren
i don't see how grinding for resources is a "large chunk" of gameplay
if anything, it's tedious
making boss summons non consumable means:
- you spend less time grinding for shit
- you spend more time (or the same really) actually fighting the boss
dark kettle
Yea I personally just don't find any joy in killing the same enemy over and over to retry a boss.
Considering that death mode revolves around adrenaline (not getting hit), if you want to be able to dodge every attack you're gonna have to practice, practicing a boss and slowly getting better over time is rewarding, and I think spacing out those bossfights with arbitrary item grinding just hurts the experience overall.
Consumable boss summons is a game mechanic that has stuck around since the beginning of terraria, and it made sense because bosses were very forgiving, and you generally didn't have to put in many attempts to beat it if your gear was up to date for that fight, but in death mode, it's not uncommon to spend like 30+ attempts on a single boss.
void kelp
those are some good reasons that should be added to the suggestion
indigo fog
^
frail mantle
imo if they were to be made non-consumable in DM they should be made more expensive to make in DM to compensate
dark kettle
yeah that's fair
void kelp
but yeah, to strengthen the suggestion you can absolutely add those two paragraphs to the reasoning to expound upon the two sentences
dark kettle
one problem that i see off the top of my head would be to use an infinite king slime spawner to just print money, but, i think the pros outweigh the cons
ashen warren
you can print money with DS anyways so
dark kettle
sure i'll add em
ashen warren
most boss summons are sold by the dryad (after the boss has been beaten) or whatever so yeah i don't think it's too bad
dark kettle
yeah which is kind of ironic because once you beat the boss you no longer have to practice it lmao
i suppose a compromise could be to let the dryad sell the item once you have crafted it once
ashen warren
that seems like a good idea
golden narwhal
Agree with this one
Normally against it since it's a mechanic in vanilla, byeah, it was addressed
onyx river
I mean, the problem i have with that is that it will heavily displace the focus of death mode towards bosses, leaving basically no room for anyting else, which is a shame because then you won't have to prepare as much for exploration, as you will need to explore less. And also imo there's only a few bosses where crafting the summonning item over and over is a pain, and i could see their items being made unconsumable, but i really don't think making all of them that way is a great idea
ashen warren
wdym "leaving basically no room for anything else"? grinding for boss summons is one of the most mundane and boring things in the entire game. staying in a certain part of a biome then killing the same enemies 100s of times is not fun at all
the exploration required for farming boss summons is minimal
onyx river
I mean you're not obligated to stay in the same part of the biome, you can do basically anything else at the same time and also like 100s of time is really exagearted, the only one i can think of where you actually have to kill hundreds of ennemies is moon lord and i agree that it could get a non consumable summoning item, but asking for a non consumable decapodita sprout is just pure laziness
Plus i personnally find that taking a break once in a while to get materials can make the boss grinding much more bearable than just basically spawn->heal->buff->summon the boss->fight it a bit->die->repeat
ashen warren
you can do basically anything else at the same time
like what, kill more enemies? you're not obligated to stay in the same part of the biome but regardless, you're locked to a certain part to obtain a certain drop (i.e. souls of night/light)
like 100s of time is really exagearted
it's death mode lol, anyone who's unexperienced with death AIs is going to die a lot of times
asking for a non consumable decapodita sprout is just pure laziness
i don't see the laziness in not liking having to wait for glowing mushrooms to grow
onyx river
I mean ok, i don't know where i place on the skill scale(i don't think very high) but the number of attempts it took me on average to kill bosses on my latest dm playtrough got me nowhere near having to kill that much mobs for summonning items, and especially for the sprout you could prolly grow enough glowing mushrooms to craft the summon in the time it took you to fight the boss, as for the souls(for the cryo key i presume, if i didn't miss something) it was at worse a minor inconvinience for me and i fought cryogen like between 20 and 30 times.
To add something to the list, and i know this may very well vary from person to person but i'm just talking abt my personal experience, i don't think i learnt provi much quicker with the endless item, as most of the time i didn't even really bother to prepare since the attempt was free anyways, resulting in me dying much quicker and thun learning basically nothing
ashen warren
just make boss summons non consumable in armageddon lol
unkempt bolt
^i feel like i'd prefer this
smoky wagon
Why not just make certain boss summoning items cheaper
Some are really easy to make alot of
While others require grinding to do so
unkempt bolt
just making them purchaseable after they're defeated would be nice
smoky wagon
They are already
unkempt bolt
not all of them
smoky wagon
Which ones
The only ones which aren’t purchasable are easy to get anyway
The issue is before you have beaten a boss, not afterwards
Cryogen in particular has a very expensive summon
Considering it was buffed recently i can see people having to waste alot of time to grind for cryo keys
naive ferry
make the defiled rune to reduce vertical movement in pre-hardmode
When you do defiled in pre-hardmode the only really noticable changes are the crits and changes to some loot, it doesn't really change how the bosses are fought that's why it should reduce you're vertical movement with stuff like Bundle of balloons.
hexed spade
what is the defiled rune used for except a challenge in pre hm?
frail mantle
farming
hexed spade
maybe defiled should disable jumps in pre hm
worthy fiber
Hook only 😳
hexed spade
distorted is a bad debuff
violet dagger
defiled is active, enjoy not jumping, GRAVITY HAS BEEN SET TO 1 BILLION
naive kernel
Revengence UI scale to Terraira UI scale setting?
fierce hedge
@dark kettle i dont see the issue. It's not hard to farm for the boss summoning items and death mode really isnt as bad as stated
wooden wedge
The same argument could be made for having them non consumable in rev
unkempt bolt
yeah boss fights aren't long if you don't use adren
fierce hedge
I know it's already talked about but i just wanted to get back to it
wooden wedge
And the whole difficulty part is really subjective since like
Nobody's gonna spend 30+ attempts on any pre HM boss
unkempt bolt
in all the people i've talked to, dying 30+ times on any difficulty is pretty uncommon
fierce hedge
^
I would see that only happen to people who just installed the game 5 minutes ago
But thats my vision
hollow shell
(I ran out of patience before I got that far with old Rev ML and proceeded to lag cheese him)
I do think I spent like 50+ attempts on Rev Yharon, dunno if he's been nerfed in the past 5ish months
frail mantle
most post-meme lorde bosses already have infinite spawners
hollow shell
byeah Dragon Egg is infinite so resources were not a concern
Only post-ML bosses gave me significant trouble
(I think I fought Cryo pre-buff)
fierce hedge
Gotta be honest, i think all the harder bosses have an infinite summon
frail mantle
also birb and OD
hollow shell
and birb
dapper coral
clone, Provi, DoG, Yharon and SCal all have infinite summons, which are the stinky bosses (except clone obviously)
frail mantle
Deus' summon item is also infinite
fierce hedge
^
dapper coral
yep, that one too
hollow shell
AD's is infinite but that's cuz of Astral Ore's scarcity and so post-Deus Astral biome is less annoying
dapper coral
also fargo's mutant mod exists, if that wasn't mentioned already
you can just buy summons that way
fierce hedge
Calamitas has one too, even though she honestly isnt that hard
@dapper coral its about the standard mod
hollow shell
Not wholly sure why Cal's is infinite
smoky wagon
i think if like specific bosses which are annoying to summon many times were mentioned it would be helpful
dapper coral
eh, fair enough i suppose
smoky wagon
aside from cryo none are that bad
wooden wedge
Probably because you need it for eye of extinction?
hollow shell
well you can just like
craft another one
dapper coral
simple, but irritating to farm for
unkempt bolt
it isnt hard to farm them in mass quantities then just make like 10 summons
fierce hedge
Also if it's death mode, isnt the something is approaching also a thing
fierce hedge
Its there though
unkempt bolt
it's grinding
smoky wagon
atleast making a summon item is you being productive
sand umbra
No mod should be concerned about other mods
Ever
smoky wagon
waiting for a natural spawn is just sitting there
fierce hedge
Thomas
smoky wagon
even for balance i think there can be concern, i know calamity made those martian ufos in space not drop martian plating until post-martian event
sand umbra
ye
smoky wagon
bc with thorium it allowed a progression skip to make a late hardmode armor set
sand umbra
oh don't give me that
fierce hedge
If for challenges, sure
sand umbra
we're talking about actually other mods, such as Thorium and SoA and all that jazz
other content mods
fierce hedge
That too
smoky wagon
how about make boss summons purchasable if you have died to the boss atleast 10 times
unkempt bolt
why reward you for dying
sand umbra
Fargo's is something of a weird case, if primarily because Mutant is funny QoL and Souls has never been a traditional content mod
smoky wagon
to save time
if you are spending that many attempts on a boss people don't want to keep grinding for summon items
unkempt bolt
terraria's a game with an emphasis on resource gathering
i dont see why resource gathering can't be part of the punishment
dark kettle
i dont really see why anyone would want to grind to fight a boss, how is that engaging gameplay lmao, it just drags everything out for no reason
sand umbra
and Calamity's a mod with an emphasis on eliminating all forms of vanilla grind to make you suffer with its own. we get it
smoky wagon
you have to resource gather for your gear and the initial summons
and also yeah its not interesting resource collecting
its mundane
sand umbra
Calamity is not a QoL mod. it is a content mod
hollow shell
but hoo boy it has a lot of QoL in it
smoky wagon
calamity has alot of QoL features
smoky wagon
none of it is necessary but it makes the mod better
sand umbra
debatable
smoky wagon
people put this false sense of value in spending hours doing mundane and skill-less tasks
there is nothing impressive about it
sand umbra
yes
unkempt bolt
if you want qol, why not get a qol mod
sand umbra
like building enormous arenas for every Calamity boss which you're forced to do to have any semblance of fun
hollow shell
It is now time to begin the conversation of if Calamity's vanilla QoL, progression, and/or balance changes should be separated into another mod
dapper coral
it breaks up the monotony of fighting bosses over and over and over again though
unkempt bolt
breaks up the monotony with something even more monotonous
smoky wagon
building arenas doesnt take that long compared to the other things you have to do
sand umbra
or go through hours of grinding out Unholy Essence or whatever other material Calamity wants you to get to do your next thing, with nothing to break up that monotonous grind
dapper coral
it may not be fun or skillful but it's different from endlessly fighting a boss
wooden wedge
It is now time to begin the conversation of if Calamity's vanilla QoL, progression, and/or balance changes should be separated into another mod
Oops that's on the don'ts doc iirc, so it wouldn't matter,.,.
hollow shell
what
sand umbra
Calamity consistently and constantly obliterates vanilla grind while also introducing its own forms of grind that it chooses not to obliterate
smoky wagon
people want to fight a boss until they win against because that is how you improve and beat it
if they take a break it should be because they chose to
not because the game forces them to
and im not sure what type of grind calamity adds that is even comparable to the time sink of vanilla
like unholy essence is not hard to farm
essences all can drop from fish and bosses
abyss materials drop like candy
fierce hedge
After you kill a boss you can buy it's summon item right?
unkempt bolt
most of them
smoky wagon
all except wall of flesh
unkempt bolt
and crabulon
smoky wagon
who is easy to get summons of anyway
tawny garden
and lc
smoky wagon
crabulon is super easy to get also
unkempt bolt
that wasn't the question
smoky wagon
also yeah i thought you could buy the crabulon summon
unkempt bolt
oh wait i was thinking of a different one
tawny garden
The sugg isn't about this
unkempt bolt
the purchasing after death doesn't really matter because it's referring to before the boss is killed
smoky wagon
my reasoning behind letting summons be purchasable if you die enough is that if you reach the point of dying to a boss that many times it means you have already crafted a large amount of summoning items
its not like you are getting a freebee
it just means if you get stone-walled by a boss it makes it less tedious to get past
and besides i usually have to fish for potion ingredients between boss attempts anyway
it doesnt cut out all the grind
dark kettle
doesnt have to make everything infinite, i just hope its adressed somehow
smoky wagon
out of curiosity which boss did you get stuck on
fierce hedge
Calamitas i think
smoky wagon
i took like 60 attempts for fishron and that wasnt fun
hollow shell
Wouldn't have been Cal
smoky wagon
calamitas has a reusable summon
hollow shell
That one isn't consumable
fierce hedge
Could be just a general suggestion though
dark kettle
was stuck on skeletron so i grinded cal clone for 3 hours because it had an infinite summon
was fun, good bosss
fierce hedge
Prime you mean?
smoky wagon
yeah
dark kettle
yea prime
fierce hedge
Wanted to make sure
dark kettle
got tired of grinding bones and souls
smoky wagon
i think you can buy an item from the archmage npc that crafts the mech summons
enchanted metal
smoky wagon
3 pieces makes any mech boss summon
dark kettle
smoky wagon
unkempt bolt
mfw research
hollow shell
... wew
smoky wagon
its fine
dark kettle
probably not
hollow shell
Prolly not but w/e
fierce hedge
Whatevs
fierce hedge
Byeah enchanted metal makes any mech boss summon
smoky wagon
i feel as though cryogen and duke fishron still have annoying summons
like not terrible
fierce hedge
Good luck grinding Prime next stream albino
unkempt bolt
nah thats calam
smoky wagon
i went across the entire surface to get normal worms to craft them
fierce hedge
Worm + some mushrooms
smoky wagon
and then ran out
fierce hedge
On autohammer
smoky wagon
so i then farmed truffle worms
dapper coral
heh, for me it's always raining when i don't want it to, so worms are easy to get
but its significantly less tedious than farming truffle worms
smoky wagon
i found farming truffle worms to be very easy actually
sometimes 3 would spawn at once
i dont know if mods did anything to affect that
i just used battle potion+water candle
it just took time to get a large amount
dark kettle
yea truffles are fine tbh
dapper coral
iirc old duke isn't changing any more?
wooden wedge
oues another "X is hard/easy subjectively please nerf/buff X"
unreal viper
He is getting nerfed already.
hollow shell
@sudden garnet Easier to kill next update
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/369115362186231809/716327908540678234
frail mantle
OD doesn't ignore i-frames
it might've seemed like an instakill because he deals pretty big chungus damage
hollow shell
lemme go see the i-frames of him and his projs
Coulda gotten combo-fucked by two attacks with separate i-frame counters
frail mantle
maybe yea
unreal viper
I thought only scal and yharon had diff I frames.
hollow shell
Nah, tons of bosses do
frail mantle
cause afaik aside from shit like arenanadoes and doge head in death mode the only attack in Calamity that ignores i-frames are Prov's cocoon flames
hollow shell
Ah yeah, ignoring i-frames outright is just like
Prov's cocoon flames yeah
a bunch of bosses use their own i-frame timers that are separate from the immunity frames that get boosted by equipment
which.. is frustrating
This list was made before OD so he'll probably need to be added
sudden garnet
yeah
unkempt bolt
old duke doesn’t ignore iframes
sudden garnet
he literally clapped me three times in a single second
and I went from full
to nothing
unkempt bolt
it was probably him and two projectiles
sudden garnet
he got stuck on top of me
hollow shell
Yeah he just has cooldownSlot = 1 for his contact damage, like all post-ML bosses
sudden garnet
If so they should most likely do stuff to fix you from going down from full to nothing
its not a fun game mechanic lol
hollow shell
If you wanna do some testing I guess you could report it to #bugs-read-pins