Calamity scales in its own way because content mods are not designed next to one another with the intent of being played with one another.
#suggestions-discussion
void kelp
ashen warren
why is calamity content ahead from the base game itself?
void kelp
moreover, it’s a modification to the game.
ashen warren
so playing with other mods is a big no then?
zenith hazel
obviously, big content mods anyway
distant gyro
as all content mods should be
void kelp
nothing is stopping you from doing it
but these mods are designed to be played separately
all the mod devs don’t sit down at the table to make balancing considerations with other mods
ashen warren
oh yeah cuz i wanna play that frickin flute to a worm that literally devours gods
just sayin
hollow idol
mods dont need to account for other mods
there are hundreds of mods on the browser
it would be near impossible to balance them all out
void kelp
the only mods that need accounting for one another are moderators 
prime creek
Yeah idk about that brav guy 
zenith hazel
hmm?
void kelp
((brav worst dev))
ashen warren
as the other communities say, only calamity is the most least-compatible with any other mods and that's what makes it unique I guess
zenith hazel
you know what other communities also do? bandwagoning the calamity hate train so do take their words with a grain of salt
void kelp
Its probably because calamity is big and scales to itself, which other large content mods do
prime creek
Calamity is pretty fuckin big content wise
ashen warren
my friends do not hate calamity tho so its no bandwagon
prime creek
It'd be a nightmare trying to balance outside of it
void kelp
I don’t think you understand what a bandwagon is
prime creek
Unless there was like a mod pack or something that balanced everything
ashen warren
i do spider
prime creek
That'd be kinda cool
hollow idol
thorium stops adding new content literally one boss after ml, if all mods were to be viable to each other, every post ml boss in calamity would have to be ml tier which would be boring
void kelp
then you know that brav was not referring to your friend group and rather to the greater community
ashen warren
oh yeah, the tmod community
void kelp
they banned you what do you mean
hollow idol
yaren't in it right now 
prime creek
yaren't
hollow idol
my choice of words is irrelevant to this discussion, hush
ashen warren
before i go is there any website or community where i can suggest a small mod idea to someone who can actually make it?
hollow idol
tml ig 
ashen warren
idk how to code
south flint
Learn
ashen warren
but its hard
south flint
Also, are they accepting any suggestions related to legendary items? (It’s not suggesting new ones)
Exactly
It’s hard but it’s fun
void kelp
toss it and we’ll judge
onyx river
Not everybody finds coding fun
heady storm
Well, learning how to make a few lines of text do something extraordinary is fascinating imo.
But yeah, opinions are a thing.
So I won’t dwelve entirely into that.
Seems like an interesting concept, though some of these are remedied easily w/ adequate arenas
Watch some defiled nohits for example, half of the time it’s water arenas.
south flint
Yeah that was just an idea, I’m pretty sure the flightless destroyer is what they should actually be like
heady storm
Yep, case in point a skybridge is enough for him.
south flint
Huh
heady storm
Try changing this up a bit so that way arenas don’t just cheese the drop in, alright?
south flint
Ok
prime creek
Beat Duke with true melee for his legendary 
onyx river
Beat him with summonner
dry latch
unlikely to get implemented tho. iirc, legendaries being rare is the balance to their power
prime creek
Adding a skill-based way to acquire them is a good idea tho
Rng doesn't really balance it out
ashen warren
legendaries aren't meant to be obtained
dry latch
^
ashen warren
obtaining them is a bonus
dry latch
I remember a dev saying the same thing
prime creek
Yeah but having to actually challenge yourself to get them would be a cool thing
south flint
I mean, they clearly aren’t afraid to have challenge-obtained items, the Profaned Soul Crystal is an example
ashen warren
but that defeats the point of legendaries only being obtainable by 1% drop
onyx river
Profaned soul crystal is a donator item tho so not a good example
south flint
But you can get it by defeating providence with only summoner pre-scal
ashen warren
that isn't even the same thing
onyx river
It's way worse than with only summonner
onyx river
and also it doesn't work to it's full potential until you beat Scal
south flint
Legendaries are special too, they are called legendaries
prime creek
Being at 1% doesn't really mean anything. it's just mindlessly grinding a boss a bunch of times and hoping you get it. If legendaries are supposed to be powerful tbh they should at least have additional challenge to get them
dry latch
psc is a donator + dev item. it ain't exactly the norm
you're not supposed to grind for it
south flint
Neither are legendaries
dry latch
they're strong, but not necessary
prime creek
Exactly, what would be the downside of having a difficult way to get them?
dry latch
because it's supposed to be a lucky reward
onyx river
The game shouldn't push you to go for a difficulty that might be too much for you because it has better rewards, the same reason death doesn't actually give much more than rev and the same for master mode
ashen warren
ye it is supposed to be which is why he is suggesting to change it
keen tartan
not having a reward for doing something harder isn't really that good of an incentive to do something harder
other than of course bragging rights
but bragging rights mean nothing
prime creek
I don't mind the luck of getting it but there should at least be a way to actively go for it without grind
faint needle
Bragging rights mean everything*
But yeah I agree having a more definite way of getting legendaries
ashen warren
i disagree with that
faint needle
Maybe not guaranteed, but like10% or smth
prime creek
You can do it if you want, but it's entirely not necessary
ashen warren
there shouldn't be even more challenges granting legendaries
then it's just whoever is worse at the game has a poorer experience
keen tartan
skill should be rewarded
faint needle
That's just calamity isnt jt
dry latch
defiled already does 5%. arma does x6~~ (still waiting for sentinels to have bags so I can use arma for guidelight)~~
faint needle
Defiled doesn't affect legendaries tho
keen tartan
if you're willing to go the extra mile then there should be a reward for it
ashen warren
why should there?
not everything needs a reward
u can just do it to challenge yourself
prime creek
Why should it be limited to mindless grind then?
If you actually want to get a legendary
keen tartan
terraprisma is a really good example
onyx river
Skill doesn't necessarily need to be rewarded with more than a cosmetic reward, giving a good player an item which trivialises the next 2-3 bosses is actually prolly the worst way to reward him
ashen warren
no
dry latch
wait they don't get affected by defiled. my life was a lie
faint needle
Only RIVs are affected
ashen warren
imo terrarprisma being enraged reward is a garbage addition
faint needle
And stuff like waifu in a bottle
prime creek
Eh I'd say terraprisma is a bad example simply because it doesn't fundamentally change anything about the fight, but I don't mind having a good item being locked behind a way to get it that is arguably harder than higher tiers of gameplay
keen tartan
it's a garbage item
but the point is it's a good example of items being locked behind extra challenging shit
ashen warren
to you it is, to others it may not be
prime creek
It'll be up to everyone to decide tho so
south flint
if all else fails we still have fargo swarms
prime creek
Never tried Fargo's actually
ashen warren
anyways if legendaries get alt ways of getting i'll eat a sock
so let's just end here
rose latch
Why not do like how they made the lore craftable
And make them craftable with a certain amount of trophies
onyx river
The only reason lore items are craftable with trophies is because before they couldn't be obtained again if you trashed them tho
faint needle
Yeah
rose latch
True
But I meant it as a grinding way that is not as affected by rng
It doesn't eliminate the grind
But it prevents the rng from being really bad
onyx river
I don't get why there should be a way to obtain everything without RNG tho, it eliminates the joy of getting a rare item by luck
rose latch
I agree but it was just a thought to help with this suggestion
Like a better way to mitigate rng being a dick
unkempt bolt
the point of legendaries isn't even for you to grind out every single one
it's supposed to be something you can rarely get playing normally
thats why most of them aren't worth the work you have to put into farming a 1% drop chance,
rose latch
A lot of people do grind for communism though
rose latch
Ok
dry latch
tbf, yeah, but it's just for that one specific item
and even then, it's not a necessary accessory
unkempt bolt
most legendaries are not worth killing a boss 100 times
rose latch
Communism overrated
rose latch
It's like that accessory you wear if you don't have anything else that is more class specific
ashen warren
which is very often
rose latch
Yea
unkempt bolt
like who actually grinds for most legendary weapons to use them
ashen warren
most legendaries are not worth killing a boss 100 times
actually imo the only ones worth grinding for are community, bflux and briny baron
unkempt bolt
most people don't, because legenadaries aren't that much stronger than what you can more easily find
earnest harness
||people who use fargo's souls 
||
rose latch
I grinded to get the drat
unkempt bolt
bflux is pretty fun tbh
rose latch
At that point it's pre easy to grind though
onyx river
But even when you don't have enough class specic items There are always enough accs to fill up the gaps without using community
unkempt bolt
ehh community's pretty good
ashen warren
7 spaces is a fuckton lol
rose latch
I wear it a lot but I still don't know what it exactly does
People just say it's good
ashen warren
it just improves your character overall
like taking all kinds of vitamins everyday
but the difference isn't too visible directly
onyx river
Ye but you always have other less grindy options to fill all the slots, even though they're not as good
unkempt bolt
as is the point of legendaries imo
they can be better than most options, but they're exceedingly rare
so i don't see why they should be made less rng-dependant
rose latch
It's like riv but not as useful
unkempt bolt
when grinding for them is a) not the point and b)not worth it in most cases
also wtf are the examples at the end of the suggestion
onyx river
Ye it is axactly what i was trying to say
rose latch
No movement keys
onyx river
Mappy:"hold my tsunami"
onyx river
You could just use an infinite flying mount
unkempt bolt
well that would just be wings+grapple
which is harder to build than to actually execute
onyx river
You could do the funny anti grav hook circle too
unkempt bolt
tbf once you're at either of those, SHPC is useless unless its used for some fargo's thing
opal bear
How many votes are needed for a suggestion to get through
frail mantle
170
opal bear
That's way too much
frail mantle
not really
violet dagger
You'll find that a lot more people vote than you expect
ancient crow
i'm pretty sure a sugg to lower the vote threshold is not gonna pass
frail mantle
zenith hazel
in the past 6 days alone there have been 20 suggestions delivered
opal bear
Was it against the doc? I'm gonna go check on it
zenith hazel
that's already a lot considering the recent star req bump
ashen warren
how cool would it be if yharon looked different in phase 2 as if he gets reborn like a phoenix
cool but inpractical
proud parcel
Hopefully I got all the important parts from this was last suggested
onyx river
Did the sugg not go trough last time, because i don't see why it shouldn't have
proud parcel
It was accidentally forgotten and auto deleted
violet dagger
yup
onyx river
Oh i see, but yeah it's ok
violet dagger
hopefully they get that bot to warn us when it's about to get auto deleted soon
proud parcel
I pinged the person who had the initial idea yesterday, but they never reposted it
dry latch
mounts?
or at least the infinite flight kind
those are better for building than hoverboards
distant gyro
yeah just use brimrose
i don't want seraph tracers to be more meta than it already is
indigo fog
yeah uh seraph tracers definitely don't need a buff
dry latch
add a moab upgrade with hover so we can have an alternate mobility acc
onyx river
Yeah that plus seraph tracers isn't meant to be a buiding acc anyways
sand umbra
hey so here's the real question
why is the Flying Carpet in the Auric Tesla shoes recipe but not in the actual Auric boots upgrade recipe
would be perfect justification for allowing Celery Tracers to hover
grave oracle
Oh yeah
but the flying carpet hovering happens AFTER all your flight time is exhausted
unreal viper
I don't have any problem with it.
agile cloud
i dont disagree with it
unkempt bolt
no more carpet during scal
agile cloud
yes
unreal viper
I think he just wants a normal hover.
So you can activate and cancel it at anytime.
agile cloud
sort of like a mount?
distant gyro
regular hover, but seraph tracers gets crippled to 1 second of flight, deal? 
agile cloud
hmmmmmm
dry latch
reasoning (building) is off, as explained above
agile cloud
tbh it would force other playstyles but that would be so bad for convinence
dry latch
you can change it to be more combat focused maybe
grave oracle
regular hover, but seraph tracers gets crippled to 1 second of flight, deal?
@distant gyro If thats the case no need to add to seraph tracers
civic pond
seraph with hover?
grave oracle
just make celestial tracers have the ability to hover
because flight time is important when it comes to seraph
due to bosses like providence and sentinels
dense ferry
Honestly, I think this suggestion wouldn't be so bad. It would be nice to hover around with the Seraph Tracers and upgrades. HOWEVER, as you said, they would be cool for endgame for builds. Hovering for Bosses never has been a asked sugg, and honestly, the Auric Tesla Armor already give hovering, so yeah, for endgame build, no need for a Celestial Tracer hover, and as I said, hovering isn't asked by almost anyone. It's a good early game upgrade, but against Provi or Sentinels, they are irelevant
grave oracle
Yup exactly
or maybe they can extend the flying carpet hover
I just want a good hovering time that counts as flight time
so i can extend it with the yharon lore
for infinite flight
void kelp
Going through suggestions, forgot if this one seems valid or not: https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/699359022364491868/719339684886609952
violet dagger
it isn't really imo because defiled is supposed to be a challenge mode that you take on for fun and without rewards
versed mica
well the question is is it against the rules
violet dagger
it doesn't look like it
versed mica
only problem might be how specific the ROD thing is
crude geode
Defiled Rune isn’t meant to be another difficulty mode. It’s meant to be a way to simplify farming for some rare items and (in a way) for money. It isn’t revengeance or death, it’s like Armageddon.
Adding items only dropped in that mode would go against it’s current purpose, so I don’t think it’s very valid.
unkempt bolt
but then why would defiled affects wings at all
you don't really use defiled for grinding bosses since they don't affect RIVs and legendaries
and you can just turn it on for the bag
most item grinding is done without the use of wings
crude geode
You just use it to farm normal items with a rare drop, like Gatligator from Trasher or other drops like Frozen Turtle Shell from Ice Tortoise.
The reasoning of the suggestion is Defiled Rune “mode does not have much content for the debuffs it adds to the game”, yet Armageddon provides just as much content. It’s only purpose is for farming.
violet dagger
unless you really want a challenge and do DAD mode
wooden wedge
@dense cradle read the don'ts doc
hollow shell
(and the answer is most likely yes)
dense cradle
Indeed.
exotic ibex
hm
that thing with legendary items already in voting
I was thinking for a while and got an idea
maybe give legendary items for beating armageddon rev+ bosses, that drop these items?
with a couple of treasure bags
two or three
I don't think that information would be useful now, but, who cares
tawny garden
yeah, it can't be changed now
wooden wedge
@shut tide why does a hardcore player have no right to quit and re-enter
and why should scal do this specifically and not all bosses
shut tide
First question: by quitting and re-entering, you can very easily get an eventual victory against a boss (unless you take damage from a very high-damage projectile or something that suddenly kills you)
shut tide
But you do have a point with the second question
wooden wedge
hardcore is supposed to be a challenge, not bullshit
shut tide
It’s a bad thing because it makes hardcore boss fights hardly more challenging than boss fights with soft core characters
wooden wedge
and why is that a bad thing? it's player choice if they wanna quit and re-enter
this could also apply to any difficulty
because in all diffs you lose money
shut tide
True that, plus it’s possible to use the despawn mechanic when you’re in danger
wooden wedge
so why hardcore specifically
shut tide
But I think quitting and re-entering is bullshit
wooden wedge
then don't do it
shut tide
And SCal is pretty much the only boss that you can’t despawn easily
So leaving the world is the only way of easily retreating from the fight
But yeah, I was well aware that the main flaw of my suggestion was that its purpose wouldn’t be much if players could decide the rules for their play through
radiant meadow
that sounds annoying to keep track of
like what if you restart Terraria and unload Calamity?
tawny garden
Or what if there's a city wide power cut?
wooden wedge
What if your cat alt f4's on you?
hexed spade
What if the DoG eats your power cable?
tawny garden
Also, there's no way to kill a character who isn't in a world
dapper coral
the gist of it is, basically there are so many scenarios that could impact this, and also it's up to the player to decide whether they wanna do that or not
as far as i have gathered
wooden wedge
And the other point is basically just "why"
dapper coral
i guess
sand umbra
because if so it by a wide margin takes the cake for the most completely unnecessary and overly-complicated-to-set-up anti-cheese I've ever heard of
radiant meadow
it's basically the same as respawning
sand umbra
wooden wedge
Also like
Why should calamity bar players from exiting and re-entering for this one boss fight
The only reason from the sugg is some sort of non-existent lore
violet dagger
ig since defiled isn't really supposed to be an extra mode with drops
crude geode
^
violet dagger
its more supposed to help grinding
void kelp
I feel like it’s completely antithetical to the purpose behind those modes
it’s sorta like.. the whole design philosophy fab has w difficulty seems to go against the sugg
ancient crow
it has gone
gleaming pumice
I want when calamity updates to 1.4 a way to toggle graveyards or keep them from appearing everywhere or like if you want a graveyard the tombstones have to be placed by a player and not just when the player dies
Bc at the end of my master mode playthrough my whole world was gray
wooden wedge
wait for 1.4 calamity at least
formal cobalt
@gleaming pumice you know you can just break them, right?
gleaming pumice
Ik but it gets annoying to have to later go find them all and break them
formal cobalt
Break them as they appear
radiant meadow
you can just get the no more tombs mod
proud parcel
There is also currently a mod, and it will probably still exist, that causes tombstone to not appear on death
Wait, nvm, someone beat me to it
versed mica
Isn’t this covered by no future suggestions?
fossil robin
Maybe use fences for the bottom of the arena?
versed mica
Yeah this suggestion is in the Don’ts doc
hollow shell
@gleaming pumice You're not allowed to make suggestions regarding future content like Journey's End + Calamity
Hold onto it and suggest it when Calamity gets 1.4 compatibility, if you still agree with it
gleaming pumice
Oh ok I'm sorry I haven't made a suggestion before so I didn't know
hollow shell
It's aight.
There's a Google Doc in pins telling you what you shouldn't suggest
gleaming pumice
Ok thx
violet dagger
i honestly though can't wait until tmodloader and calam 1.4 with the expanded mushroom biome
radiant meadow
I feel like when 1.4 tmod rolls around, we're just gonna get blasted with several 1.4 related suggestions
violet dagger
that will make crabulon so much easier
radiant meadow
when our focus needs to just be on transitioning to the new platform
violet dagger
since rn with crab u have to be really lucky with world gen and get a good mushroom biome
hollow shell
The environment's still naturally easier to fight in
current mushroom biomes are a bit too cramped
radiant meadow
I generally just make an artificial biome on the surface
raven moon
ancient crow
Crabulon in 1.4 shroom biomes will be fun
Now that they have big pools of water a giant crab will feel slightly more realistic
golden narwhal
I'm guessing demik's sugg was invalidated by the pre-hm mage balance
dapper coral
That’s what Iban said, yeah
I wasn’t aware that was a thing since i don’t play mage often
I just think it’s weird that mage gets no pre-hm buff
But yknow if mods feel like passing or yeeting it, that’s fine
golden narwhal
Didn't realise that pre-hm mage kept clairvoyance in mind
dapper coral
Yeah pretty interesting tbh
tawny garden
@mellow gyro You need a reason for your suggestion
covert adder
ah shit I typod
hollow idol
history nerd here, lore reason is because core wasn't revealed yet when the masks were made
covert adder
ah yes of course I definitely saw that coming 
crude geode
~~Ah thank you YuH 🙏 ~~
hollow idol
~~np 
~~
grave oracle
i like how literally the second someone posts a sugg people immediately respond here
its a good way of feedback
hollow idol
benefit of sug posting being one of the only channels I have unmuted
dapper coral
^ that’s what we’re here for
grave oracle
I agree with the PBG sugg
I also found it very annoying to fight PBG underground without a giga sized arena
tawny garden
hmm
a plantera arena & a homing weapon worked fine for me underground
don't know what's all this fuss is about
rose latch
By the time you are up to pbg you would have a quite large plant arena
If you are playing higher difficulties
grave oracle
well it WAS my first time so i guess inexperience caused it
tbh pbg actually is quite easy
now that i think abt it
sand umbra
By the time you are up to pbg you would have a quite large plant arena
people seriously oversell how threatening Rev+ Plantera is
she dies to all the same shit that Normal/Expert Plantera does
tawny garden
yeah, she's also quite easy, just circle
sand umbra
byeah
rose latch
But not having an arena is not good
grave oracle
circling equal man of the match
tawny garden
I had a screen wide arena and it was fine for pbg
sand umbra
PBG on the other hand is stupidly fast with a dash pattern that makes no sense and adds that do nothing but screw up your timing
the lack of space given by an underground setup only makes this worse
"but Thomas the Train build an are--"
arenabuilding isn't fun. get over it
grave oracle
ye that is true tho
rose latch
Then use tedit
sand umbra
like I tried to make something workable
onyx river
Hmm, i didn't even need that great of an arena to make pbg easier underground, prolly just from the fact she kept spawning plaguebringers when i fought her on the surface, but really i think if anything the enrage should be buffed
tawny garden
It's your fault if you don't want to build an arena tho
rose latch
Pbg isn't a boss you need to move a lot anyway
sand umbra
yes, yes it is my fault
rose latch
Just space to dash a few times
sand umbra
it's my fault that I'd rather play the game or build something I want to build rather than be stuck making an arena that doesn't look good and will only be used for one boss
rose latch
Thats all you need
grave oracle
but thats the game
sand umbra
no
onyx river
You don't even need that big of an arena for PBG like, mine was absolute trash and i still beat her as a summonner
grave oracle
u gotta give time for buliding stuff so u can progress
sand umbra
funny you say that
sand umbra
the series of attempted fights that made me remember why I hate PBG and was the starting point for this sugg was done on a summoner playthrough
grave oracle
oof
onyx river
Yeah tbf i didn't really fight her in another playtrough in a long time but still, she was miles easier underground on my summonner one
sand umbra
plague waifu
terminology >:(
rose latch
Finding that hard to believe
grave oracle
i like pbg music tho
sand umbra
but yes plague friend is my donor item
it was one of the only reasons I had to fight PBG
(this leads into another change I wanna sugg for PBG but like I highly doubt any of it's gonna happen without me doing it myself so lole)
grave oracle
bruh
sand umbra
byeah
I want to like PBG. I really do
but as far as I'm concerned, being forced to make a large arena you will never use again is not fun
grave oracle
i guess once you know the fight its pretty ez
onyx river
You don't need that big of an arena tho
grave oracle
oh ya
rose latch
Never use that again
tawny garden
We could talk about everything in this game that wastes time, like arenabuilding, grinding, farming, fishing, shit of that sort
no dev wants to shorten those for some reason
rose latch
Cashless easier enraged
sand umbra
any Polter arena is one you already used for Ceaseless
onyx river
The corruption spread too
sand umbra
We could talk about everything in this game that wastes time, like arenabuilding, grinding, farming, fishing, shit of that sort
nobody wants to shorten those for some reason
except people do wanna shorten those
specifically, they wanna shorten all the shit that has nothing to do with bossfighting
grave oracle
but they cant because then it will make the game short
sand umbra
I wish I could tell you the number of overly-QoL suggs I've seen in my time
onyx river
Yeah but then you can just use cheat sheet to get all the items and just fight the bosses
rose latch
Yesterday there was a sugg about shortening grinding for legendaries
grave oracle
and the calamity mod is known to be a LARGE content mod
yeah there was
i saw that
sand umbra
but like
grinding? farming? fishing? I can find fun in all that
rose latch
Beat cryogen with no movement keys
sand umbra
if primarily because there's a noticeable reward for doing it and because it helps me get a nice breather between boss fights
grave oracle
continously minig while getting ataccked is a bummer sometimes
onyx river
Yeah, the same way some people do actually find a lot of fun in arena building
sand umbra
as far as i'm concerned, there is nothing fun about getting constantly harassed by turtles, hornets, and various plague enemies while attempting to make a space large enough for PBG
grave oracle
yeah tbh
onyx river
You got zen pots in calam, plus if you were in a summonner playtrough those must have not annoyed you that much
And again, you really don't need that much for PBG
grave oracle
wow i cant decide which side to take
sand umbra
Zen Potions aren't nearly as effective as they once were
grave oracle
No they are
rose latch
Candle
grave oracle
yeah
rose latch
Tedit
tawny garden
you can "utilize" boss zen
onyx river
Maybe, but they still spare you of many troubles
grave oracle
tranquility plus calming plus peace plus zen
sand umbra
¯_(ツ)_/¯
going past that:
if you were in a summonner playtrough those must have not annoyed you that much
you're missing the point
it's not an issue with a summon playthrough specifically
grave oracle
i tell you a platform with tranquility and peace candle plus a zen and calming makes 1 enemy per hour
sand umbra
if anything, it's probably actually some semblance of tolerable as a summoner because nothing bothers you to begin with as long as your summons have more than the IQ of a peanut
grave oracle
lol
onyx river
I know, it's just that you were complaining about it after saying the time that made you hate PBG was during a summonner playtrough
sand umbra
the point I was making was that there is no noticeable reward for doing it and all it does is present more frustrations and a larger timesink that can very easily feel pointless
onyx river
There is a reward, make the fight easier, this is the reward of arena building
grave oracle
im gonna go build a balloon for my party girl with the help of zen and tranquility
it works
There is a reward, make the fight easier, this is the reward of arena building
@onyx river that is true ngl
vagrant zenith
If you hate arena building you can use cheat sheet's copypaste function to drill a large hole by copypasting air and then copypaste whatever fancy shit you want there
or use WoF boss zen if you're more no cheat-y
wide flicker
Usually it is poor design if you should rely on another mod to get something done
vagrant zenith
I mean Calamity shouldn't implement magic storage [which is IMO more QoL than cheating], and I'd say an auto arena building machine is maybe even more out of place than just adding magic storage in Calamity
sand umbra
I shouldn't have to use another mod or exploit boss zen to not hate myself trying to build an arena
"but Thomas just sta--"
stacking Calming-type buffs can only get you so far
and the point that it takes ages, especially for later-game opponents, still stands
as far as an arena for PBG goes: by the time you're fighting her, you've already done all the shit there is to do at that tier
you've already done OOA T3, you've already done Martians, you've already done the seasonal moons
wide flicker
At least if you could build it on the surface, you can reuse the arena for later
Like for Folly and Yharon
sand umbra
mhm
I actually hadn't thought about that until you mentioned it but like it's in the sugg now because fuck that's a good point
wide flicker
So not only is it way less painful, it's also useful for later
sand umbra
yee
onyx river
But you can, in 95% of the cases use a plantera arena for PBG, and also there are other bosses in the mod that are litterally a one time in their respective biome(cryogen and Hallow provi for example, and yes i know provi will get friends in 1.4), not even mentionning the fact that by that stage, hollowing out a decent arena from scratch with proper mining gear(like, a pot and ambrosial ampoule) won't event take you that long
vagrant zenith
Hallow provi can be fought in hell by spawning her in the hallow or does she enrage in underground hallow
wide flicker
One argument I would like to make is that forcing people to fight underground doesn't really add anything. It feels arbitrary, and given how many people fought PBG above ground before being told that they enrage, you clearly don't lose much by fighting them above ground either.
I don't think Hallow provi enrages underground hallow
vagrant zenith
cool
onyx river
She doesn't, altough, i would consider fighting hallow provi an exploit
And the point of making people fight bosses underground is exactly to make them fight in more confined spaces, changing the way the fight plays by a lot
vagrant zenith
Yeah I think Cryogen Golem and that Space Sentinel Wyrm Thing™️ are the only bosses with no arena recycling
onyx river
And also, imo PBG is indeed still easier underground than surface, even with a shitty plantera arena
wide flicker
Probably because PBG enrages above ground and moves faster while firing more projectiles
So it literally is
onyx river
Yeah but some people say that the only reason we know she enrages is because of the item description, but imo it's not true, we didn't really notice earlier because nobody thought abt fighting her underground so nobody did, but the difference is noticeable and actually makes the fight a lot easier(to the point i first tried her underground after dying several times on the surface)
violet dagger
I've fought her underground in my plantera arena and it was actually quite easy
copper onyx
Plaguebringer is fine underground
Pretty fun tbh
One of the few underground bosses that manages to be somewhat consistently difficult regardless of arena
vagrant zenith
why is adding new hook a banned suggestion?
robust lava
it's not banned
new hooks fall under "frequently suggested", which means that it's been suggested a lot in the past, so there don't really need to be any more suggestions for them
vagrant zenith
if it's frequently suggested why aren't there any new hooks tho
robust lava
because:
a) things take time to implement
b) just because it's been asked for a lot, doesn't mean the devs have to do it
c) calamity does already add a couple of hooks
meme sugg
void kelp
@ashen warren no meme suggestions please
ashen warren
ok
fiery rapids
nice art though
void kelp
next time read the suggestion guidelines
ashen warren
yh i checked
proud parcel
Also scroll up in suggestions posting channel
ashen warren
i shoulda done that first
i spent an hour on that art too xD
but tbh a pinkys mod crossover would be so cool
fiery rapids
you can post it on the calamity art server
proud parcel
Hmm, 11 more votes, it's so close
ashen warren
you can post it on the calamity art server
I'll do that, and add the pinky yharim idea as a pet idea too I guess. It's the cutest thing ever lul.
robust lava
You could share it in the pixel art channel
ashen warren
yh I will i guess lul
You could share it in the pixel art channel
thats for wip pixel ar
frail mantle
it's for pixel art in general
unreal viper
I'm fine with both of the current suggs in posting, having a slime god core mask makes sense.
And the PBG enrage just makes prepping for the boss a much bigger pain than it needs to be.
Solid reasoning on both of them, good suggs.
unreal viper
Use shift enter.
frail mantle
shift+enter
ashen warren
thanks
unreal viper
You gotta add more reasoning than that to be convincing.
Try testing weapons, or ask people for how well their weapons did.
ashen warren
ok fine
gray nebula
you're never forced to use stealth lol
ashen warren
yh but its the only way you can deal high enough damage lol
versed mica
Unless rogue has changed in major ways since I played it a few months ago stealth isn't in any way a requirement
onyx river
Ok so i know i've already talked about Thomas' sugg and i still think that PBG really doesn't need that big of an arena underground and that a plantera arena is sufficient, and also that saying you can reuse the arena ins't a really strong argument because you have to build an arena in both underground and surface jungle anyways even if you fight PBG on the surface. There is still a big issue i just though off: completely removing the enrage would be a huge nerf for PBG as you'd have way too much space to dodge the projectiles, rendering her only threatening attack the charges, and they wouldn't even be that bad with all the space, and i really don't think PBG needs that rn.
ashen warren
wait
PBG is angry on the surface?????
i never knew that
no wonder they were so hard
agile cloud
since when was pbg enraged on the surface
onyx river
Since a long time actually
terse sundial
Been the case for over 2 years now
agile cloud
tf
terse sundial
Just was undocumented for a while
terse sundial
The enrage isn't like most other boss enrages
agile cloud
is it just like faster attack patterns?
terse sundial
PBG summons more plaguebringers and that
agile cloud
oh
onyx river
And tbf with thomas i didn't know either until the tooltip change, but imo it doesn't show that the enrage doesn't matter, it shows that nobody really thought to fight her in the underground before
agile cloud
time to suggest buffing the enrage
terse sundial
PBG is getting a huge buff next update
onyx river
I think buffing the enrage would make more sense yeah actually
terse sundial
I would wait on it
onyx river
Does the buff invalidate thomas' sugg as well or
onyx river
Yeah just saw
keen estuary
wait, plaguebringer goliath is supposed to enrage in surface?
the wiki says nothing about this
agile cloud
why make an OPTIONAL weapon unobtainable?
dry latch
bruh
agile cloud
doesnt make sense
foggy plover
ngl I find it kind of weird you can fight her in normal underground but not surface jungle
dry latch
that's going too far lol
gray nebula
no one gets it legit
agile cloud
wait you can fight pbg in normal underground?
terse sundial
It's the same as how QB functions in Calamity @foggy plover
gray nebula
im pretty sure that means that making it unobtainable wont change anything 
terse sundial
@ashen warren There is no real reason for that suggestion
agile cloud
i cant spell
terse sundial
please provide a proper reason why
frail mantle
what would be the point of it existing if it wouldn't be obtainable
ashen warren
its flat out stupid weapom
agile cloud
thats not a valid reason
terse sundial
It's an easter egg weapon
frail mantle
it's a tribute/easter egg weapon
terse sundial
we don't balance it because it's not supposed to be used like that
keen estuary
if plaguebringer goliath enrages in surface jungle that explains why it was so hard for me to kill him
unreal viper
Isn't it a donator item?
terse sundial
no
frail mantle
no
agile cloud
no
frail mantle
just a tribute to TotalHalibut
terse sundial
^
agile cloud
we kind tore it apart already though
radiant meadow
and?
dry latch
think the dude is just salty tbh
agile cloud
not much can really be done to bring it back
frail mantle
yea let them edit it
dry latch
he's been talking about it in gen talk
radiant meadow
salty or not, should still give them a fair chance
terse sundial
^
frail mantle
if they don't sugg bot will take care of it and if it becomes valid it'll be approved
agile cloud
i guess thats fair
dry latch
aren't removing items against the rule tho?
agile cloud
nope
frail mantle
no, fab just dislikes removing things
dry latch
gotta read that doc again
agile cloud
i only ever sugg things that i sort of meme about here and its apparently a good idea 
frail mantle
he only does it if the thing serves no purpose, like crimsaber or heart rapier
unkempt bolt
fab doesn't believe in item bloat
frail mantle
yea
terse sundial
although tbh Ozz killed the heart rapier not Fab
frail mantle
he goes by the ideology "why remove thing when you can rework thing to be better", which i'm assuming he couldn't with crimsaber and heart rapier, therefore they got the axe
radiant meadow
it was Fab's idea though
agile cloud
either way it got killed
sand umbra
I think the big issue with Heart Rapier was that it was
a Hardmode spear with no projectiles and a very out-there recipe
sinful violet
Heart rapier was very funny
sand umbra
that's like. the worst possible combination of attributes to give to a weapon 
agile cloud
wait tf'
sand umbra
hardmode ore spears also suck
onyx river
Jousting lances are trash too tho
sand umbra
so
distant gyro
and it has been for a while
agile cloud
w h y
sand umbra
frail mantle
yea but jousting lances have an interesting mechanic that isn't just "haha lifesteal go brrrr"
agile cloud
jousting lances are fun
sand umbra
I had this idea in mind for a Heart Rapier rework
agile cloud
1 tick kills are fun
sand umbra
although it depressingly only came up after its death 
onyx river
The 1 tick DG kill is the only usefull use for the jousting lances tho
fiery rapids
1 tick DoG
agile cloud
doggo has 2 forms
mighty knot
obviously setting up a world-height shaft of water is incredibly viable and easy
onyx river
Nah itt couldn't 1 tick kill anything else than naturally spawning bosses as you'd get past them in the time it took you to use the summoning item
sand umbra
dumb Heart Rapier idea
move to pre-HM, rare chance to drop when breaking a Life Crystal (Golden Crates 
and Life Crystal Mimics can also drop it for renewability ig)
killing an enemy (or continually damaging a particularly strong enemy e.g. a miniboss or boss) spawns a floating life crystal that remains for a few seconds
stabbing that life crystal with the Heart Rapier restores 20 health
dry latch
thorium
agile cloud
hmm
mighty knot
I was gonna make a suggestion, but part of it is dependent on 1.4 features (whips). Should I not do that?
sand umbra
you should in fact not do that
radiant meadow
don't
sand umbra
reason: whips smell
onyx river
Wait for 1.4 to drop
mighty knot
it takes forever for suggestions to reach the devs
sand umbra
no whips smell
they're entirely impractical for summoner and are melee weapons in all but damage type
mighty knot
if I had said 'windy day' or smth would your answer be different?
sand umbra
more damage = good, yes
but whips = ungood
mighty knot
ok
mighty knot
Several people are typing...
so does right click
sand umbra
but right-clicking with a summon weapon already did that
sand umbra
the only thing right-click targeting needed was a cursor-accurate target and the ability to not target something if your cursor isn't near something
mighty knot
whips require true melee levels of closeness
agile cloud
ok
mighty knot
not taking damage > taking damage
agile cloud
whip only playthrough time
onyx river
This is prolly going a bit too far from #suggestions-discussion
mighty knot
right
onyx river
Well you can go on the official terraria discord
frail mantle
1.4 talk can go in clam talk
agile cloud
i'm just gonna sugg a general terraria channel
or to rename other mod talk to general terraria
smth like that
frail mantle
why
agile cloud
i'll probbably join that eventually
onyx river
Has already been rejected
agile cloud
oh
dry latch
calam mod talk has :
This channel is for general discussion of Calamity and vanilla Terraria, ask questions in #help_and_advice
onyx river
frail mantle
agile cloud
how would that even be coded
radiant meadow
that sounds overly complicated
agile cloud
that sounds like hell to code
unreal viper
Very ambitious idea.
onyx river
Like it's not a bad idea, but yeah, it's way too hard to implement
agile cloud
i like the idea
agile cloud
i've never used endogenesis
unreal viper
I def think phm minion AIs need improvement, they're incredibly annoying to deal with.
smoky wagon
is it me or is plantation staff underwhelming
agile cloud
probbably should lmao
dry latch
it got 4 modes
mighty knot
yeah that is actually kinda like endogenesis
onyx river
Summonning AI's in general need improvement
unkempt bolt
plant staff sucks ass
unreal viper
The AI?
smoky wagon
sad
unkempt bolt
the weapon
unreal viper
You could sugg an improvement of phm minion AI instead.
agile cloud
Still sounds kinda annoying to program, but not hellish
or just to improve minion ai overall
onyx river
Minion Ai needs a rework in general yeah, Summonner Duke fishron is just not ok, and even AS is made more difficult just due to the ai
gray nebula
changing the ai of all minions and woulndt work with other mods summons 
onyx river
Well at least for me it was somewhat hard(mostly overly elongated) because my minions wouldn't target it half of the time
smoky wagon
isnt resurrection butterfly designed to be good vs fishron
unkempt bolt
yes
smoky wagon
like thats the gimmick
copper onyx
Another thing with removing plaguebringer enrage is she'll be too damn easy on the surface. If you can beat underground without too much trouble imagine having free movement
smoky wagon
like minions can be dumb but they have such insane dps it usually makes up for it
agile cloud
mechworm
onyx river
Too late, the sugg's already in voting Diamond
smoky wagon
magical conch slaughters crabulon and EoW like no other
even with it being very stupid
violet dagger
about the halibut cannon thing maybe it could meet the same fate as legendary weapons and lose its scaling and be made more common like a rare variant
dapper coral
the point of halibut cannon is that it's a meme weapon, it's not meant to be used in a regular playthrough
agile cloud
tbh its kinda funny to use the tablet and spawn lunatic cultist, but i see why you'd say that
unkempt bolt
that’s why it’s like a 0.0001% chance
smoky wagon
yeah people might want to know what they are spawning lol
unkempt bolt
obv people can cheat it in but you can’t stop that
violet dagger
if you happen to be a lucky soul who gets it or followed one of the many eidolon worm cheese methods then it can work for a playthrough
smoky wagon
funny isnt a good reason to keep as is
agile cloud
¯_(ツ)_/¯
unreal viper
Eilodon wyrm shouldn't drop stuff in my opinion.
smoky wagon
every other boss summon has a description
unreal viper
It's just asking people to cheese it.
dapper coral
which one are you talking about?
unreal viper
Adult.
dapper coral
bc if you can kill the adult, imo have fun
onyx river
You'll take longer to kill the eidolon wyrm than to finidh your playtrough tho, even with cheese
dapper coral
it's your choice to ruin your playthrough or not lmao
agile cloud
coldheart cheese was patched was it not?
onyx river
I think so yes
smoky wagon
it was
unreal viper
Invincible cheese was.
agile cloud
so microspacing still works?
unreal viper
I don't know if you ca cheese it with bonk or not.
agile cloud
someone will probbably figure out how to deal 30m damage in 1 hit
indigo fog
I'm pretty sure Spectral Veil invincibility still works even if Purified Jam doesn't
agile cloud
no idea what that is
smoky wagon
anarchy blade can probably still cheese the wyrm
agile cloud
i need to finish my rogue playthrough
onyx river
Ye but even with invincibility it takes ages and is prolly not worth it
unreal viper
You could use slimey saddle cheese.
agile cloud
its not worth it
violet dagger
if anything is going to cheese eidolon worm, it's going to be the jousting lances
agile cloud
ehh
violet dagger
if someone manages to time it perfectly
radiant meadow
they have 99.99% dr so probably not
onyx river
And even with that, gl hitting the wyrm while zooming at mach 10
agile cloud
imo adult wyrm should have something like dg does
just a pet
basically like: congrats you killed it now take a flex pet
unreal viper
3 million now I think.
agile cloud
still 99.99% dr though
onyx river
Welcome everybody to the health is right, welcome our contenders
red stormBOT
onyx river
Congrats you got all my $0
agile cloud
yay
onyx river
She actually not that hard in the underground, plus you already have a plantera arena to fight her at that time
wooden wedge
What's up with opalescents sugg
onyx river
I don't get why the AEW spawns naturally tbh
dapper coral
bc it's literally a meme weapon that is meant to ruin your playthrough
wooden wedge
Yeah so guessing they've been pinged about that then
Also the reason is just
The point of the weapon
It's meant to be an OP weapon
If the player wants to cheat it in why shouldn't they
onyx river
Playtrough idea: only halibut cannon with crystal bullets on a 2010 PC
smoky wagon
someone using cheat sheet shouldnt be used as an argument for anything
ionic falcon
Dg drops burden breaker tho
dapper coral
plus dg is much easier to kill in calamity
not that i disagree with the sugg
there is actually a reason to kill dg in calamity now
but i agree that AEW shouldn't have any weapons/accessory drops or anything like that
maaaaybe a utility accessory
but also maybe just pet
because pets are good
void kelp
then again, halibut cannon is otherwise a 1/1000000 drop
unreal viper
The cannon is a meme weapon, I don't think it needs a reliable way of obtaining it.
dry latch
what about collectors tho
onyx river
I don't know of anybody who would collect every item and if they want to collect every weapon they would still have to collect legendaries so they would have prolly lost their sanity by the time they even attempt for halibut
proud parcel
I do this every playthrough though
onyx river
You collect every single weapon?
proud parcel
Admittedly it's limited to all weapons of the particular class I'm playing
onyx river
Well you do have a lot of patience then
sand umbra
I mean, endgame mage got a lot better with Vivid Clarity rework and Hadopelagic Echo
proud parcel
I think he meant collecting every mage weapon, not strength of the class
wooden wedge
@blazing lava read the don'ts doc
proud parcel
That's a specific item suggestion, the first don't iirc
blazing lava
if you want me to delete it i will
dapper coral
no need to delete, but revision is good
maybe just say that pre-eye sentries are needed
blazing lava
ok
wooden wedge
remove the whole sentry idea
blazing lava
ima just delete it cus it was a stupe idea
proud parcel
Not necessarily
I mean the specific idea is, but the suggestion for a pre-boss sentry isn't
unkempt bolt
why is a pre-boss sentry necessary tho
it would only be used for DS and eoc, the former of which makes sentries useless since it's a worm, the latter having things like sun spirit/frost blossom staff
which aren't exactly sentries, but perform more or less the same task
proud parcel
It would flesh out summoner a little more, especially since there are only 25 sentries, of which only 17 are unique
Also there are times pre-boss where you aren't fighting a boss which you could place a sentry if you had one
violet dagger
and there also needs to be more variety because I'm playing summoner and your pretty much stuck with belladonna and the head "sentries" like frost blossom until hm/ph
distant gyro
queen spider and ml shit
proud parcel
There's a spider 1 and 2 moon lord ones
sand umbra
ML sentries are uncounted because ML sentries are beyond shit
unkempt bolt
you're stuck with belladonna into hardmode what?
sand umbra
violet dagger
I meant hive mind
unkempt bolt
ah
violet dagger
but belladonna is really good
unkempt bolt
there are other summons available, though belladonna is extremely strong for a pre-boss summon imo
violet dagger
belladonna+frost spirit is a deadly combination
sand umbra
jungle shit generally does tend to be strong pre-boss
violet dagger
it can last from pre boss up to I'd assume BoC/EoW
sand umbra
which is probably because jungle is fuck
proud parcel
Oh wait, I just realized there's an actual posted suggestion
crude geode
@still estuary Ravager is a boss that’s not, in a grand playthrough, important. It’s meant mostly as a boss to farm for materials.
violet dagger
yup
unkempt bolt
i understand they're just presenting an option but like
there's no reasoning as to why ravager should be significant
violet dagger
isn't it just useless if u have boss checklist since that would pretty much spoil the whole thing
proud parcel
Speaking of ravager, he is kind of underwhelming compared to his lore
proud parcel
Yee, I'm looking forward to that
unkempt bolt
though that's concerning the fight itself
violet dagger
unkempt bolt
not the his significance in the game
but yeah ravager isn't really a significant boss, and i dont think he's meant to be
seems pretty clear that he's just a core of calam/life alloy farm
foggy plover
his weapons are really fuckin good too lol
unkempt bolt
tru
foggy plover
well for now
unkempt bolt
hematemesis melts fishron
still estuary
proud parcel
I mean, your suggestion doesn't relate to the fight itself, so no conflict there
proud parcel
Just to check, does a bot automatically send a suggestion when it reaches 170 votes, or does a mod need to manually give it to the devs?
crude geode
Manual.
radiant meadow
mods only send suggestions related to the server
suggestions for the mod must be sent by a dev or tester
proud parcel
Ok
violet dagger
yeah
I wish they at least changed it so you can't get shit golem chambers where the altar isnt even in the room
that happened to me last playthrough
tawny garden
@covert adder "it's straight up criminal" isn't substantive enough to be a reason
wooden wedge
it's straight up criminal for a WIP mod to not have all of its content
golden narwhal
McGrill's suggestion has already been checked over? (First assumption is that it's maybe impossible?)
frail mantle
it's probably not impossible, it's just that it's not really needed
wooden wedge
mcgrills sugg is kinda
crude geode
^
dapper coral
i think we're gonna let it die, probably
void kelp
it’s an unnecessarily convoluted workaround