yeah but then you could just get it way later in progression when you need it for that launcher
#suggestions-discussion
fierce tendon
i think the main issue isn't that you have to fight a boss twice, its that you have to fight providence, the super beefy boss twice
dapper coral
that's fair i guess
fierce tendon
also has it been suggested before that yharon's big tornadoes show up on the minimap?
radiant meadow
Yes
fierce tendon
ok
hallow kraken
I would imagine that’s planned already
radiant meadow
thank you for not using spoilers 
@high haven 1. please use spoilers
2. don't suggest things about the future like that. Changes like that will come in time.
hollow shell
Also @ashen warren It'd be best to avoid mentioning Journey's End in your suggestion
You cannot suggest changes pertaining to future content, and the leaves do already exist for when trees grow
Also, more importantly, your sugg is formatted wrong. Your bold line needs to be on a separate line from the rest of your sugg (Shift+Enter)
And yeah @high haven You should just delete your suggestion, because suggs about future content (including 1.4) are not allowed
analog grove
Make abombination not consumable
- Why would a remote be consumable
- The plaguebringer goliath is a late-hardmode boss that can require a lot of attempts
- Its recipe includes 5 iron bars which is a pretty big amount of limited resource for a consumable item
I think it would be better to increase the amount of materials needed and make the abombination not consumable
is this good?
dapper coral
5 irons bars are not expensive at all
indigo fog
why not make it easier to craft then?
analog grove
But if you want to make like 20 of them you'll need a lot
dapper coral
okay but why would you do that
hollow shell
That first reason is not very convincing, because plenty of other summoning items are also consumable that don't logically make sense
dapper coral
you don't really need to kill pbg more than 3 times tbh
hollow shell
ex. Ancient Medallion
radiant meadow
where do they go when consumed?
analog grove
In rev or death you can die a lot on it
radiant meadow
like for the slime crown, do you like eat the crown or something? 
dapper coral
surely not 20 times though, i would think 7-8 max
analog grove
Ok then
sleek turret
You can get infinite Lunar Fragments from Astrum Deus
hollow shell
I think they just do that
Some projectiles do hit multiple times
If it is only sometimes I guess that's weird
Sounds like a bug if we can't confirm it as intended
... indeed
Did you not just say it was OP
radiant meadow
they should hit twice https://gyazo.com/5897e753ea47116124333cdd5c0332a4
hollow shell
(are you in the wrong channel)
radiant meadow
the second hit might be blocked by i frame issues from like summons if you're having issues
I'm confused on what you're trying to say
you just called it bad 5 seconds ago
you were implying ion blaster got 3k dps which is bad
oh that kind of bad
I get it now
removing the second hit would like shaft the weapon's dps though
hollow shell
From that code, the double hit looks like it only occurs on the enemy the projectile dissipates against
if it can indeed pierce
radiant meadow
the second hit can also hit any enemy that is in the tiny radius of 2x2 blocks
hollow shell
Unless you're just
describing the double hit as "piercing"
which is incorrect
radiant meadow
but the 1st hit only hits the enemy you hit
hollow shell
tis an explosion yeah
tawny gyro
how would you guys feel about adding more pure-material summoner weapons?
as in, a victide summon, a perennial summon, uelibloom summon etc
so far the only pure-material summons are wulfrum drones and blood dragons
hollow shell
Some weapons like that are upcoming
hollow shell
All sprited, some programmed
radiant meadow
not victide tho
faint needle
I know this is just git gud but if you die to cryo its really just your fault
Also the only summon that takes a bit more to make is the as one but the others are really easy ti make
dapper coral
the cryo key is a pain though
actually i think the AS summon is easier to make since it's mostly all in one place
but for the cryo key you gotta go to the evil, the hallow, and the snow biome to farm them
and only specific enemies drop eleum thingies
faint needle
That why zergs exist
dapper coral
brimmy summon is pretty easy as well tho
faint needle
Yeah but I find him the hardest just because I feel like an evil always corrupts the beach for me
Anyway, the idea was that all of the summons are really easy to make
dapper coral
yee
golden narwhal
This is basically equivalent to making all boss summons non-consumable
faint needle
Yeah
unkempt bolt
npcs sell the summons to more easily facilitate grinding for rare drops
ancient crow
not to make the boss easier
dapper coral
@rare kernel any thoughts on what we said?
unkempt bolt
while it is grindy, you can just do a handful of farming sessions to make a bunch of cryo keys/whatever summon
but that's the punishment for failure
faint needle
Yeah
golden narwhal
Also, fishing can really help, if enemy grinding is tiring
unkempt bolt
it'd be different if like, the summon dropped directly from enemies
rare kernel
I've done a large number of farming sessions at this point
faint needle
Doing 10 kses in each evil biome just gets you enough souls for the rest of the game
rare kernel
Here's the problem with the get good argument IMO
unkempt bolt
KS doesn't work for the summon essences
rare kernel
it's that in order to get good, you have to be able to practice. Practice takes attempts at the boss.
unkempt bolt
they drop from specific enemies, not just while you're in the biome
faint needle
Yeah ik but it does for souls
golden narwhal
Fishing exists
faint needle
it's that in order to get good, you have to be able to practice. Practice takes attempts at the boss.
@rare kernel separate char and world wit play testing and cheat sheeg
unkempt bolt
your punishment for not being good is having to farm the summon again
faint needle
Also if you can't improve after several attempts its really your fault
rare kernel
@unkempt bolt Why do we have to make the game more punishing?
unkempt bolt
because you should be punished for failure
faint needle
Because that's what calamity does
unkempt bolt
death by itself isn't that much of a punishment
faint needle
It punishes for not improving
rare kernel
@faint needle I've gone from not being able to beat the first phase to getting within 0.6% hp.
Why should one be punished for failing?
rare kernel
Okay so failure isn't something we want already. Does that mean we need to attach a punishment to it?
faint needle
And being punished for failing is something from vanilla
rare kernel
There are many many many games where they don't punish players for failing.
golden narwhal
Grinding isn't a punishment tho, it's just tedious
unkempt bolt
you have one shot at the boss, and if you miss it, you need to get another summon item
faint needle
If you fail its your fault. You learn from it, then proceed to not fail
rare kernel
Yes, why should it be that way?
unkempt bolt
why shouldn't it?
rare kernel
Because it's tedious and grinding and takes up a lot of time that could be spent having fun re-attempting the boss.
faint needle
Grinding IS like 20% of terraria
unkempt bolt
^farming is an important feature
faint needle
Then just go into a playtesting world and beat the boss with the gear you have until you beat consistently
rare kernel
What do you gain from farming boss items? What does it add to the game?
faint needle
why should it be that way?
@rare kernel dude the game was literally build on grinding
A punishment for failure
unkempt bolt
in vanilla, you need to grind things, be that ore or souls or boss drops
faint needle
A game without punishment can't serve a challenge
unkempt bolt
it's just a core tenant of terraria
rare kernel
Is that a positive thing to add to the game?
rare kernel
Add more of to the game*
unkempt bolt
but they aren't adding more of it lmao
rare kernel
@faint needle There are counterexamples out there of games without punishment that are still a challenge.
faint needle
Like
rare kernel
Celeste for example.
unkempt bolt
celeste is completely irrelevant to terraria
faint needle
Celeste is extremely punishing in long screens
rare kernel
I gave a counterexample.
unkempt bolt
not to mention that's just a false statement lmao
faint needle
You die, you get back to the beggining
faint needle
And don't get me started or golden strawberries
unkempt bolt
no game that has challenge is "without punishment"
rare kernel
You go back to the beginning of a screen literally a second away from where you died.
faint needle
Did you beat farewell
rare kernel
That's very very minimal punishment.
unkempt bolt
challenge is pointless without a punishment
rare kernel
no I haven't
golden narwhal
Games have different punishments, they're not the same after all
faint needle
My dude farewell is extremely punishing
And so are all of the later chapters
But farewell stands out
rare kernel
I beat through chapter 8 and didn't find it punishing at all.
faint needle
Lmao what
unkempt bolt
there's no reason to delve into the philosophy of punishment, especially from a completely separate game
unkempt bolt
like i said, grinding is a core tenant of terraria even in vanilla
dapper coral
npcs sell summons to help farming AFTER you beat the boss, not to help beat the boss
faint needle
Yes
dapper coral
you have to grind to beat the boss in the first place, which is why they're not sold earlier
rare kernel
@dapper coral Why shouldn't they help instead?
unkempt bolt
why should they?
faint needle
Because that's not how the game works
rare kernel
I'm being told a lot of "Because it is that way it shouldn't be changed"
dapper coral
because that's literally the point, is that you should be able to beat up the boss before you get minimal-effort retries
rare kernel
Which isn't a relevant argument
faint needle
Its not a challenge anymore if you have infinite, effortless tries at it
unkempt bolt
no that's what you're hearing lmao
faint needle
No you aren't I'm literally giving you arguments
If you want infinite summons just cheat in 9999 with cheat sheet
Cause basically that's what youre suggesting
rare kernel
I'm saying make each resummon take less time.
Apparently that makes it not a challenge?
unkempt bolt
the punishment for death, aka the incentive to avoid dying, is not only restarting the fight, but also having to get the summon again
if you beat the boss, congrats, you no longer need to farm for the summon should you want to fight them again
rare kernel
There's many other things you have to farm in order to beat a boss too. Potions, for one. As well as the appropriate equipment, and the stuff for the boss summoning item.
unkempt bolt
i also don't know if npc inventories can be changed based on whether a boss has been summoned
rare kernel
If you take 1 of those out of the equation that doesn't stop all the others.
faint needle
You forgot BMs exist
Also you don't realize you're adding another layer of grinding to it, money frinding
Grinding*
dapper coral
equipment is a given, that's literally just game progression
unkempt bolt
potions aren't a requirement
rare kernel
you still, will have to go and do a pile of fishing, growing potion ingredients. etc... you're just removing the extra layer of boss summoning item finding.
unkempt bolt
they help, but you don't need potions to summon and beat the boss
faint needle
Also once you get a set of equipment you don't need to get it again
cerulean palm
if you want potions but don't want to grind them, just use alchemistnpc
rare kernel
Losing all those buff potions is also quite a punishment.
faint needle
you still, will have to go and do a pile of fishing, growing potion ingredients. etc... you're just removing the extra layer of boss summoning item finding.
@rare kernel B L O O D O R B S
cerulean palm
that too
rare kernel
@faint needle
unkempt bolt
okay but you haven't actually made a good point as to why there should be less grinding
rare kernel
Finite number of blood moons within a period of time.
faint needle
If you don't like grinding I'm surprised you dont have reduced grinding or slch npc
unkempt bolt
you can have infinite blood moons the moment you beat brimstone elemental
rare kernel
If there's less grinding it removes the tedious part between boss fights where you have to go find ingredients again. I don't know about you, but I don't enjoy having to find boss summoning items yet another time.
I will also point out there are boss summoning items that are reusable for other difficult bosses.
So why can't we have it for all of them?
unkempt bolt
not every boss can be treated as a difficult boss
faint needle
Yet it seems you enjoy making pots which are way more tedious
rare kernel
I don't enjoy that part either.
unkempt bolt
obviously you aren't supposed to like having to get the summon again
that's how punishment works for most people
golden narwhal
Eye of Exinction can't be compared to cryo key in terms of grinding
rare kernel
Why should we take something that is done for fun, a game, and then include parts that you're not supposed to enjoy?
faint needle
I will also point out there are boss summoning items that are reusable for other difficult bosses.
@rare kernel the summon aren't reusable because the bosses are hard, but because they require quite a few mats usually
unkempt bolt
not every single second of a game has to be enjoyed
dapper coral
also why do you not farm multiple summons worth in one session
faint needle
I don't enjoy that part either.
@rare kernel then use alchemist npc lite
unkempt bolt
that's why failure is even an aspect of terraria
rare kernel
@faint needle But if the punishment is grinding, why can't the calamitas summon item just have us grind souls of fright for it?
and be consumed?
faint needle
Because its used in the bigger scheme
faint needle
And because lore I think tho I'm not sure
rare kernel
There's a limited amount of ice blocks per world.
unkempt bolt
if you're dying enough times to cryogen
that you literally run out of ice in your world
when there are biomes made completely out of ice
faint needle
not with alch npc if you'd actuslly use it
unkempt bolt
there's a bigger issue than the summon being consumable
wooden wedge
how the hell
dapper coral
tbf the hellstone argument is not valid because theres an assload of it in a world
rare kernel
That's a judgement call where your discriminating against people trying to beat the boss that aren't great at games.
wooden wedge
it's basically impossible to die to cryo so many times that you run out of ice
unless you're intentionally dying 1500 times
unkempt bolt
it's not some kind of elitist mindset, it's literally dying thousands of times to a boss that isn't that difficult
faint needle
If you don't find the game fun don't go around rebalancing it, stop playing
rare kernel
What isn't difficult to one person can be very difficult for another person.
rose latch
@faint needle But if the punishment is grinding, why can't the calamitas summon item just have us grind souls of fright for it?
@rare kernel
I don't think the summon uses souls of fright anymore
unkempt bolt
everyone can agree that you should not die 1000 times to cryogen
dapper coral
look, if it takes you 20 tries to kill cryogen, maybe try on an easier mode first
wooden wedge
nothing is so difficult that you'd run out of ice blocks
unkempt bolt
he's not a superboss, or a major point in progression
he's also optional
lol
so if you manage to die thousands of times to him, your playthrough isn't halted
rare kernel
So cryonic ore is completely optional?
unkempt bolt
yes
faint needle
Yes
rare kernel
In that case we need to update the wiki to not assume that people beat cryogen before any mechanical bosses.
faint needle
Well it makes the game easier
unkempt bolt
you can beat cryogen before any mech boss
faint needle
But its completely optional
rose latch
I think melee and ranger prefer frozen armour
unkempt bolt
though they're all on the same tier of progression
he's considered by most to be easier than the mechs
rare kernel
@rose latch Either my calamity mod is out of date, or it still uses souls of fright, just checked.
unkempt bolt
how about you check if your mod is out of date
rose latch
It was in the changelogs
dapper coral
youre out of date
rose latch
Adding to the non linearity of calamity
void kelp
also, if you need boss summons w/o beating the boss Fargo’s mutant sells boss summons for an inflated cost
unkempt bolt
the sugg just seems to hone in on a nonissue that's already a core part of the game
void kelp
and it’s generally assumed that you fight cryo pre-mechs, so ofc the wiki will suggest that you use cryo drops against them
faint needle
Skip it
unkempt bolt
then get better
void kelp
do another boss
faint needle
All of the other weps are perfectly viable
rose latch
I dunno a lot of people fight the twins first
unkempt bolt
without a physical handicap, it's not literally impossible for someone to be incapable of beating cryogen
dapper coral
look, to be frank, if you're not capable of beating cryogen, you're going to have a very difficult time with the rest of the mod
unkempt bolt
like its a meme, but get good is still applicable advice
not helpful, but it's true
faint needle
Basically calamity is fight boss, die, improve, kill it and if you can't skip it or leave it
rare kernel
unfortunately the game state doesn't support get good very well if most of the time spent is grinding.
faint needle
Also there's the asking for advice at some point
void kelp
- a good arena might need to be made or the like
rose latch
For people who are incapable of beating cryogen they don't need a non consumable summon because they can't do it anyway
unkempt bolt
honestly this just seems like complaining the game is too hard
faint needle
Cheat the damn thing or use Fargo's if you hate grinding so much
void kelp
generally you don’t need to spend too much time grinding if you like, invest maybe 10 mins in material grinding you’ll be able to have more than enough for several attempts
rare kernel
A game can be challenging without being punishing.
faint needle
Do you like read the constructive messages people have sent
unkempt bolt
no it literally cannot
faint needle
No it literally can't
unkempt bolt
challenge cannot exist without punishment
faint needle
No matter how little the punishment is it exists
unkempt bolt
challenge implies a loss state, which is a punishment
faint needle
Yes
unkempt bolt
otherwise you'd be invincible the entire fight
rare kernel
Okay so then here's what I'm getting assuming your assertion that challenge requires punishment is correct: I feel like the punishment ratio to failure is higher then it should be, while you guys don't think so.
faint needle
Well then that's your fault
Have you ever thought terraria might not be the game for you?
rare kernel
It's a matter of opinion.
unkempt bolt
if its a matter of opinion, why'd you suggest it?
faint needle
The farther you go the more grinding you do
rare kernel
Because I feel like a lower punishment to failure ratio would be better for the game.
rose latch
Why are you complaining it's easier to get than a truffle worm and easier to get than going through the whole lunar event
unkempt bolt
but isn't it a matter of opinion?
rose latch
Vanilla makes you do these things
unkempt bolt
you either think it's objective or not
faint needle
Zard did you beat vanilla
gusty delta
(I’d like to add it’s pretty easy to get a truffle worm btw)
faint needle
All bosses?
faint needle
Idk man, expert ml is way harder than cryogen
rose latch
Ye it is pretty easy but very frustrating
gusty delta
Yup
faint needle
What calamity diff are you doingM
void kelp
if you’re struggling a lot w cryo I recommend going to try other bosses
unkempt bolt
nothing's stopping you from going back to kill cryo if he's too hard
gusty delta
Do the mechs first if you haven’t, continue with vanilla to get better armor to beat cryo
faint needle
Also do you have an arena
unkempt bolt
if you can't kill him on progression, then don't
faint needle
Also yeah you can skip
rare kernel
Yeah I do.
rose latch
Maybe just beat brimstone elemental
unkempt bolt
this is just a sugg based on personal experience that varies too much between people
dapper coral
~~this has turned into #help-advice-read-pins ~~
rare kernel
@unkempt bolt I will point out that most suggestions are made off of personal experience.
and people suggesting things that they think are better for the game.
faint needle
Yes but most of them arent "too much grind, nerf the grind"
unkempt bolt
obviously they're made off personal experience, im not saying people only suggest things after watching other people play
dapper coral
the difference is that most people have the personal experience, which makes it a collective experience
this seems to be a purely personal experience, which is why its not valid
unkempt bolt
if you can provide evidence as to why it's an issue for a majority of people, then you'd be getting somewhere
rare kernel
So you're saying my personal experience is invalid because it doesn't match up with the experience everyone else is having?
unkempt bolt
to your sugg? yeah
void kelp
like for the suggestion itself the only part I disagree w/ is grinding for the boss summons = time consuming purely because Zerg + Battle pot + Blue candle
rose latch
My personal experience is that brimstone elemental is too easy on death but a lot of people dissagree
unkempt bolt
if your experience is an outlier, then the game shouldnt be changed because of it
rare kernel
@void kelp Zerg not available early.
void kelp
oh they changed the recipe?
crude geode
yes
unkempt bolt
zerg is post plant
rose latch
Maybe use Fargo's battle cry
unkempt bolt
again, a personal issue that most do not have, that can be fixed simply by playing the game the way it allows you to play
if calamity forced you to fight cryogen as an example, it'd be different
rose latch
A lot of people just cheat in the summons anyway
rare kernel
Well okay then I must have gotten bad advice, as everyone I asked kept pushing me to do cryogen.
so I kept doing it.
unkempt bolt
might wanna check to uh
make sure you're forced to do it before suggesting a change around it
rose latch
You could do Pantera first if you wanted
rare kernel
Given that I've literally never played this mod before, and everyone was telling me to do it first, I was given the impression that if you don't do it, then all the other bosses were going to be a LOT harder.
unkempt bolt
you could kill scal before cryo if you'd like
rare kernel
so therefore you should just do cryogen.
hollow shell
In the past, Cryo was definitely the one you should do first
But recently, it was buffed.
That probably led to a lot of the confusion
gusty delta
Calamity bosses are only required I want to say post moon lord if you want to continue the mod
void kelp
You can give the other bosses a try tbh since they’re now all around the same difficulty in theory
crude geode
(btw, what's the problem with the shifting sands nerf sugg? No evidence or?)
dapper coral
iirc there was some discussion about it, i think it was valid
gusty delta
I think the guy who put the sugg said he was going to check and see if actually need a nerf and then idk what happened there
dapper coral
he tested it against levi
hollow shell
Oh, I thought that Zard's sugg was fine
hollow shell
Disagreeable maybe, but valid
crude geode
Yeah, that sugg seems valid tbh
gusty delta
Seems fair
rare kernel
I'll repost it
hollow shell
(I hope you're editing that)
unkempt bolt
lol
rare kernel
Yes I am editing that
void kelp
Ye
gusty delta
Mhm
unkempt bolt
i can't really explain the calamitas one, but the other nonconsumable boss summons are post-ml, where the game is supposed to be much harder, and you're expected to die to bosses more
hollow shell
(cept Starcore, but that's close enough I guess)
unkempt bolt
starcore is post-deus, which is pretty similar to the other boss summons being sold after the boss is beaten
but yeah i forgot about that one
golden narwhal
Dunno if it's the case, but most non-consumes have a material that drops from a boss (cept eod now)
unkempt bolt
eye of desolation doesn't require boss drops
hollow shell
nnnope
crude geode
(having to kill enemies to spawn a boss is 
so I think that's why starcore is nonconsumable? mb)
hollow shell
Well yeah cuz Atlases stop being Deus spawners after you beat him once
dapper coral
i mean, you can't make the summons after you beat him anyways
hollow shell
And Starcore requires Astral bars
so, if it was consumable, you could fuck yourself out of Deus after only one defeat
unkempt bolt
deus also has the hide of astrum deus, which would be awful to grind for if he was atlas-only
but moot point ig cus community exists
rare kernel
Tried to beat aureus once and died miserably, so... probably not prepared for that 200k hp behemoth.
unkempt bolt
might be in the wrong channel
hollow shell
Deus is a lot later than Aureus, yes
unkempt bolt
aureus post plant, deus post-cultist
and are very different bosses aside from name and visuals
rare kernel
makes sense.
crude geode
(Deus' placement in boss order gives me a headache but there's not really anywhere better to put him)
civic pond
is he what, post cultist?
crude geode
yes
civic pond
o yea ok
hollow shell
I still feel like Trail's suggestion could be worded better but I'm afraid to ping him because he might cause a shitstorm
crude geode
Being a boss in the middle of the leadup to the final boss of vanilla is very odd, but if you move him pre-cultist then there's 4 bosses inbetween golem and cultist. Move him any earlier and he and astrum aureus are basically on the same field, which is very odd. So he's stuck in an awkward spot.
dapper coral
didn't fabsol already confirm hallowed ore?
queen sail
Where he last was he bloated the progression and was back-to-back with aureus, putting him post golem has him sandwiched with like 3 - 4 bosses, and post ml he has to compete with bumblechumb, donuts, and prov
When
dapper coral
if so, then it doesn't need to be a sugg does it?
someone posted a screenshot of it yesterday
lemme see if i can find it
hollow shell
Well the Hallow ore Fabsol may or may not be doing eventually would be for Hallowed Bars, the Mech Boss drop
Trail's sugg is solely focused on turning Divine Geodes into an ore
crude geode
yes
hollow shell
But that doesn't come off well in the main line
and Divine Geode does not need to be renamed
crude geode
(also there's already a suggestion about divine geodes being bad drop rate in voting, which is the main point of annoyance)
also also that means provi spawns two ores which is 
hollow shell
That sugg's gonna get like 150 stars, it's fine
dapper coral
thing is, how many divine geodes are you gonna need?
it is kinda unnecessary to have a whole new ore generate for like, 70 max
hollow shell
For Tarragon Armor, from the wiki:
"If creating a set utilizing only one headpiece, Providence, the Profaned Goddess is required to be defeated at least thrice (twice in Expert Mode) in order to obtain the sufficient amount of Divine Geodes needed to craft the armor."
hollow shell
Melee needs 21 more
Mage needs 38 more
Ranged needs 20 more
Rogue needs 10 more
and Rampart & PSA require 10 more each
hollow shell
Providence's drop rates for Divine Geode are 10-15 Normal / 15-25 Expert
So each class needs to kill her three times at the minimum, just about
Mage needs to kill her like 5 times..
hollow shell
Well that's where the second half of Trail's sugg comes in
in that Hallow does not have enough of an exploratory purpose, apparently
...
Crystal Shards do exist, however
dapper coral
well the world evils are fairly similar in that regard right?
crude geode
Agreed Rover, because they also provide you with unholy essence iirc
dapper coral
souls, mimics, etc
and unholy essences yea
because all the dudes you get it from spawn in the hallow
hollow shell
They are indeed
World Evils definitely need more attention than the Hallow imo
hollow shell
but Trail's sugg has that intertwined purpose, of making Provvy less of a required farm and making the Hallowed a bit more fleshed out
dapper coral
and even though they have an ore, no one actually mines it because eoc and evil bosses exist
byeah i guess its more fleshed out
hollow shell
Sure other bosses could be made less farm-heavy, and World Evils need more attention,
but there's no boss/material that'd really fulfill that kinda dual purpose
(not that it'd really need to)
Point is, I think Trail's sugg is fine in concept
but it's worded poorly
executed not the best
rare kernel
Why was the putting the lore in game suggestion declined?
void kelp
because it was asking for a custom UI and the like
dapper coral
i guess its disagreeable (at least to me) but valid, you're probably right Rover
rare kernel
So basically it would have been too much effort in the form it was asked for?
hollow shell
There wasn't any discussion about the lore sugg in the dev server
but I would have to assume it's because it'd be too cumbersome to execute
especially if custom UI is involved, yeah
UI is a nightmare
crude geode
||Realistically, the lore in game will probably be provided when calamity eventually gets updated to 1.4 and has bestiary entries||
rare kernel
That makes sense
hollow shell
||Bestiary will help a lot yeah||
I'm gonna do it
@hidden marsh Your suggestion is fine in concept, but it could be worded/executed a bit better.
You should include the fact that you wanna convert Divine Geodes in the main bolded line, instead of just saying "Hallow biome ore", as that concept in general isn't what your sugg's about anymore
Also, there's no need to rename it to "Divine ore". The term 'geode' already works fine for a mineral that generates underground, and the inclusion of a rename makes it unnecessarily specific
void kelp
Oh yeah, rover, can you add a bit extra info in the “future content” don’t w 1.4 if it isn’t there already
hollow shell
Yes I added that yesterday
rare kernel
Are there any plans to do anything with 1.4s graveyard?
hollow shell
Not that I'm aware of
We might do something eventually but I don't think we have plans now
crude geode
In general with mods, the more pressing concern is about updating mods to be 1.4 compatible, and less on specifics iirc
rare kernel
Makes sense.
dapper coral
which won't happen for many months
rare kernel
Base game updates will mess with things for sure.
dapper coral
indeed
rare kernel
wish there was stuff I could do to help but I have like no experience with modding lol
crude geode
Patience is all you really need.
rare kernel
step 0 is probably beat the mod first.
I mean there's waiting because new content, and then there's legit wanting to help in some way.
hollow shell
also btw because it's been bothering me
considering how specificity in general is not recommended in suggestions
Should we just outright disallow specific enemies instead of saying that it's maybe allowed?
void kelp
yeah
crude geode
I don’t really see a reason not to.
void kelp
never had a precedent against them but it’s a consistency thing tbh
hollow shell
Even though it's not explicitly disallowed I still don't think a specific enemy suggestion could possibly get approved
so it may as well be disallowed
dapper coral
yeah that's never going to happen in all likelihood
void kelp
ye
crude geode
Ye
void kelp
the only one I liked was the book mimic suggestion
tawny garden
Will that be called SES?
hollow shell
Yes
void kelp
specific suggestions for short
rare kernel
Why would we keep them? What purpose would they have?
hollow shell
indeed
rare kernel
That's probably the way to look at it.
hollow shell
I've edited the Don'ts doc, they're no longer allowed
(but like items, you can still suggest non-specific enemy additions)
ancient crow
soOs
rare kernel
From that angle we could say a reason would be filling in a hole in a biome's set of enemies.
Although that does raise the question of if we even have a structure for a biome's set of enemies, or if we just try and make things thematic and somewhat balanced.
hollow shell
I don't think a ton of thought goes into how each enemy plays off each other
Though if anything is to be added, it ought to be somewhat unique
or serve a purpose the others do not
Though,
There was a suggestion to add some other enemy to the Profaned biomes
because just three enemies isn't a lot of variety
and I think that works
rare kernel
That's true.
dapper coral
i could agree with that
rare kernel
Add a phantom book mimic
hollow shell
(I also have my own ideas about Nightmare & Endothermic enemies showing up in the World Evils and Snow biome
because those do not get much attention post-ML
however, my ideas are pretty specific, so they'll most likely remain in the dev server and won't be posted in the form of suggestions)
void kelp
that’d b cool
hollow shell
(I might be able to word em in a way that's not very specific, but
don't count on it)
tawny garden
On another note, why is adding reactions not allowed in this channel?
crude geode
It’s not in any channel iirc
hollow shell
Are whitenames allowed to react in most other channels?
crude geode
No, they aren’t.
unkempt bolt
no
hollow shell
Well there ya go
tawny garden
for some reason in #wiki-basic we are
hollow shell
I would assume it's because of the disruption potential
A kind of spam that leaves no trace
crude geode
Sounds like a mistake in that channel
hollow shell
and in the wiki channels it's more controlled and close-quarters
tawny garden
how many people have the wiki contributor role?
crude geode
(You do have to go out of your way to get into the channel after all)
hollow shell
iunno, a couple dozen?
I'd say about half aren't active anymore
okay nevermind it's a lot more than I thought
so like
3/4 aren't active anymore
or more
dapper coral
wait how many is it? i thought it was like at least a hundred or something
hollow shell
Online currently is a lil under 100
but that also includes all Cooldudes
rare kernel
What is cooldude role?
hollow shell
People that Fabsol and the other cooldudes like and trust
dapper coral
cooldudes are all the people that Fab has designated cool for whatever reason
yeah that
i think all devs and mods have it, and also some other people
rare kernel
ah makes sense.
hollow shell
exclusive group of friends and active chat regulars
rare kernel
So.. be an amiable and nice person around here for a while.
hollow shell
ye
rare kernel
Makes sense I suppose.
dapper coral
that's wild though, considering there are 20k people in this server online right now i thought there would be a lot more contribs than just 100
hollow shell
Well a lot of those 20k never even speak
or just do so once or twice
civic pond
if anons can edit wiki then i assume there's technically even more
hollow shell
Here for the changelogs & announcements
or forgot they were here
tawny garden
fucking discord died on me
hollow shell
(same here, very briefly)
gusty delta
Mine too
hollow shell
Anyway this is all a bit offtopic
civic pond
oh btw was that hallowed ore thing kind of already planned?
or did i remember something wrong
hollow shell
Not in the form Trail is suggesting
Trail's mainline is a bit misleading, I already pinged him about it
civic pond
Ah ok
hollow shell
(hopefully he can respond in the next 3 hours)
Speaking of which, Shifting Sand sugg look fine?
gusty delta
Ye
civic pond
Yeah looks good to me
dapper coral
yep
i've been waiting for like 20 minutes to send a message bc discord broke lol
byeah i guess it can go to voting and we'll see what the people say
hollow shell
(there is indeed an active outage)
dapper coral
yee
unkempt bolt
just a quick check, a sugg concerning adding back the death nurse instakill while a boss is alive would be against the removed content part of sugg don'ts, right?
void kelp
ye
unkempt bolt
cool
hollow shell
She already refuses to heal you
ancient crow
nurse used to instakill you in death if you tried to heal during a boss?
thats pretty 
unkempt bolt
yeye someone was just asking about sugging it earlier
wooden wedge
@hexed igloo reason?
hollow shell
@hexed igloo They're craftable
wooden wedge
lore is craftable now?
hollow shell
s'not on the Lore page, lemme add that real quick
hexed igloo
exotic ibex
oh sh there are too many messages
void kelp
@ashen warren you have #wiki-basic access, why don’t you bring that up there?
zenith hazel
the thing is, there is no best wep
some weps excel in certain scenarios, and it's up to the player to experiment with each of them
void kelp
- your sugg has nothing about boss guides, which, again, you can ping the person who made it or even edit it yourself
void kelp
doesn’t the page list a bunch of options you can choose from?
ashen warren
it is out of date
zenith hazel
the class setups get updated every update that adds weps
ashen warren
and not clear enough
void kelp
again, you have access to #wiki-basic and therefore you can discuss the weapons there
void kelp
to me the page is plenty clear anyways— it shows you what you can use when
swift wadi
Also experimentation exists
void kelp
you don’t need to post a full fledged suggestion, you can just talk to the people there
swift wadi
you dont need to know the best possible weapon at all times
just get weapon, use weapon, decide if weapon good
keen estuary
maybe to become better to decide which weapon to use you could rank them by attack speed, damage or knockback, like the official terraria wiki does
heady storm
Those factors don’t always mean a weapon is better though
Kinda late Ik but may as well say that
unkempt bolt
im not really sure what kind of calculations need to be done
learning what % a boss changes phase is part of learning the boss
wooden wedge
Yes but their point is that it's annoying
unkempt bolt
it's not like they're weird numbers anyways. they're usually multiples of 10, or quarters/thirds
neat citrus
Remember when someone asked to basically just remove mana as a mechanic?
ancient crow
lmao what
i don't remember that, but i do remember the time someone asked to make rogue stealth work identically to mana
wooden wedge
to be fair it basically already does.,,..,.,
ashen warren
i posted a suggestion saying that 2 weapons had the same projectiles and then i realised it was luxor's gift so i deleted it i'm so dumb please forgive me
wooden wedge
ok
unkempt bolt
kekw
frail mantle
no worries
ancient crow
stealth already works like mana
i mean stealth strikes exist
but the person's suggestion was to make rogue weapons cost stealth to use
and to remove the damage bonuses from having high stealth
gray nebula
yoooo random dog spawn suggestion 2
brittle girder
That's a thing? And there's two?
gray nebula
the second one is yours
brittle girder
Who was the first?
gray nebula
the first one got the most downvotes from the devs any recent suggestion ever got
crude geode
Armored Diggers already serve this purpose tbh.
gray nebula
gray nebula
it still pretty original and a bit less wack than this one
brittle girder
It would be pretty garbage to be like, setting up an arena and then DoG just eviscerates you
gray nebula
reasoning is not so great but it's not "haha because if would mean that you would be angry at dog so winning against him would be better"
and it doesn't imply a meme drop
just add dog zooming in the background once the mod gets ported to 1.4
brittle girder
lmao if you haven't killed storm weaver yet you can just see him zooming
ancient crow
the whole "undefeated bosses can be seen in the background" thing could be very usefull honestly
you could probably have deus flying around the astral background
normal cal at night would fit with "a blood red inferno lingers in the night"
brittle girder
yeah maybe undefeated bosses would appear in the background prior to their actual appearance as a boss
ancient crow
i mean im mentioning this because vanilla 1.4 does this already
eoc can be seen flying around the night background until you defeat it
brittle girder
like if you see storm weaver wiggling around, that means he'll show up soon
unkempt bolt
that would be pretty cool yeah
wooden wedge
Does SW even spawn naturally
ancient crow
i think there should only be a couple of bosses that show up in the background
cal clone and dog would work, because then there would be one prehm(eoc), one hardmode(cal), and one postml (dog)
gusty delta
Idk, I’ve beaten EoC before and they’re still in the background
Might just be a glitch
wooden wedge
||that's because EoC in the BG is just visual, whatever you do in gameplayer doesn't matter. I'm also willing to believe that it ISN'T EoC, but a wandering eye||
||may just be EoC though.,,..||
gusty delta
||Awfully big for a wandering eye if that’s the case||
||Then again, it’s not said how many eyes Cthulhu has, so ehhh??||
wooden wedge
||but I mean, it is just visual again as I've said,.,,.,,./,.||
gusty delta
||yea, the devs prob didn’t think that hard about it||
wooden wedge
||well yeah, not that much thought needs to be put in to a static background element||
gusty delta
Anyways, the visual background boss thing shouldn’t be a suggestion until after calamity is in 1.4
crude geode
Yeah.
crude geode
yes, it's in the don'ts
dapper coral
nothing 1.4 related should be suggested until it's released
@brittle girder
dapper coral
👍
crude geode
@blissful heart Use peace and tranquility candles if you really can't handle it.
blissful heart
Can you buy those from the guy from alch npc mod?
dapper coral
but you make tranquility out of peace so its much easier with alch npc
blissful heart
So I can set them up around my arena
I've walled off like 1000 blocks of space I gotta dig out
ashen warren
Have you posted it in suggestions_posting?
frail mantle
frail mantle
que
exotic ibex
i'm about this
frail mantle
frail mantle
frail mantle
i mean i doubt he's serious
exotic ibex
i know
frail mantle
also if you'd checked the pins you'd know not to ask
exotic ibex
and that is funny
i was thinking about bot
because there is no exact action, that need to be made manually
bruh
void kelp
automated delivery can’t sort suggestions by their subject matter
exotic ibex
oh
void kelp
I also don’t believe the bot can go between servers but I’m not sure on that
exotic ibex
i just didn't saw word "doubt" lol :absolute_failure:
i mean i doubt he's serious
I also don’t believe the bot can go between servers but I’m not sure on that
that's would be uncomfortable
frail mantle
iirc Amber mentioned that not being able to sort suggs is the main reason we don't have a sugg delivery function for the bot
gray nebula
NO
||master mode stupid stat bloat difficulty||
||bad||
||bad mode, stupid and unfair, just make the master mode drops available in revengeance 
||
||let people enjoy death without bullshit one shots from ennemies 
||
ashen warren
Uh...spoiler.
gray nebula
||if people are masochistic enough they'll activate master on their own as well as death but dont force activate master when death is activated||
ashen warren
Clever.
exotic ibex
that's fair
swift wadi
future content suggs aren't allowed
vital marlin
death mode underground is just getting ragdolled by bats while blind from darkness
swift wadi
and fabsol would never, never combine the modes, at least not forcing master to be on
zenith hazel
calamity isn't gonna touch ||master|| either so lole
swift wadi
as he does not like master
gray nebula
||we arent touching master with a 10 feet long pole because its dumb and stupid , if people want to activate both rev/death and master they'll be able, they'll get even stupider stat bloat and they'll probably give up mid playthrough but it's their choice||
exotic ibex
||but what you're gonna do with 6 accessory slots by default in master mode?||
zenith hazel
we can just not make rev/death togglable there
not saying that's the plan, it'd just save a lot of headaches
gray nebula
yeah making master and rev exclusive would be a good idea kek
exotic ibex
that's all what we need indeed i think
swift wadi
also no no-hitter, and while I cannot speak for him, I doubt Levi, would enjoy no-hitting "the same bosses but with stat bloat"
Calamity has a % hp increase config 
dry latch
||I'm assuming the same goes for journey mode?||
ashen warren
Not just H.P, damage is increased in zee ||Master|| Mode!
dry latch
dmg won't matter if you're no hitting
frail mantle
why not what
swift wadi
why wouldn't we enjoy it? Because it's the same boss, the exact, same boss
but get this
it takes a little longer to kill them
ashen warren
I wish master mode should've just gave the bosses some new moves
hollow idol
@feral lance ||Shroomerang also has this issue but iirc its getting renamed||
ashen warren
Mushroomerang(no this is not my idea)
hollow idol
also smfh no one complained about dragon egg
hollow idol
also did vanilla add a ||dragonfruit|| too or am i misremembering
gray nebula
yes
exotic ibex
||and elderberry too||
exotic ibex
ya
zenith hazel
blood tangerine
frail mantle
also why not isn't good reasoning
worthy fiber
||Eldestberry would work ||
frail mantle
||boomerberry||
feral lance
Well the calamity shroomerang is a rogue weapon so just change the stats of the calamity one to be the same and allow crabulon to drop the vanilla (Melee) one as well
earnest raptor
How long I should wait before feedback?
tawny gyro
Also do you plan on ||nerfing Zenith into oblivion?||
frail mantle
you should wait until you get feedback or your suggestion is approved
tawny gyro
also being a mod right now must suck, cuz you get spoiled all the time while reviewing suggestions
wooden wedge
Two 1.4 Suggs in a row? Hooh
@earnest raptor I think this had to do with terrarias rarity system being limited
opal bear
Can I discuss a suggestion before I post it
wooden wedge
Yes
opal bear
Cool so, like
Customizable Revengeance
Basically the option to tweak the health increase for all the enemies
More specifically turn it off
Like if I wanted expert and/or master with the revengeance AI
But without the revengeance health increase
Expert and/or master with the revengeance drops but not the health increase
Or maybe even master death with even more hp for the real masochists out there
I know they are out there
opal bear
Well this is a suggestion about revengeance
I'm not sure how it would work for master mode yet I'm sure they're figuring it out while they wait for 1.4 tmod
But basically
Customizable health scaling, and able to toggle the AI changes and toggle the revengeance loot
Does that make sense
wooden wedge
Yes, but I don't know how many people would agree
Because I for one have had no issues with rev hp increases in the past
opal bear
It's probably too major, but I'm not sure it would be
I'd have to see if a dev comments on here
But yeah I'm saying you could increase the rev hp increases too
wooden wedge
You don't need a dev to comment on anything,..,.
And configs are just annoying to do, not hard iirc
opal bear
Hm
opal bear
Yeah
agile cloud
If you dont want the difficulty of revengeance, then dont play it
why should they add toggleable difficulty for an optional difficulty setting
onyx river
About the fire gauntlet at hardmode anvil sugg, i feel that all hardmode accessories should be moved to tinkerer workshop instead of the opposite, in vanilla all accessories combination are crafted there, calamity uses the hardmode anvil to force players to make thinks in hardmode that they could otherwise do pre-hm but i yhink adding hm ingredients to the recipe makes more sense
opal bear
@agile cloud it's called accessibility
wooden wedge
Well now that you've made your sugg
Ehh
Blackout kinda does have a point I guess??
onyx river
Asking to be able to change the health is one thing asking to be able to toggle every feature of the mod is another, and not really a good one
wooden wedge
Probably shouldn't go too deep into specifics like number, since if it goes through the devs would be the ones to decide. Also probably change your header to reflect that it's only about the ho changes
opal bear
There?
onyx river
Yeah it's good
agile cloud
why are you playing rev if you dont want to deal with the difficulty
that was my point
opal bear
Because my friends want to play rev
And I want to play with them
But I don't want the health to be too much so I don't drag them down with multiplayer health scaling
Since I can't carry too much weight just yet until I get skilled
And that's why I want to keep the ai changes
So I can learn the patterns
Get better
Maybe the issue is you for judging accessibility
Hah
jovial spire
They weren't judging accessibility though, imo they habve a fairly decent point. If they're your freinds, they really shouldnt care too much about you "dragging them down"
opal bear
I know a few people who can beat expert but find revengeance a little too much of unknown waters so having the same hp pool or only slightly more would probably help a decent amount of people, you know?
shell grotto
Personally I feel the difficulty peaks at death mode, but expert is still generally a walk in the park, just have to know what to expect
that comes with experience
jovial spire
Also there's already an HP config, it just doesnt go below the normal amount
opal bear
yeah and that's what I want, going below the normal amount
jovial spire
Well then you should probally change you seggestion to something more like "make the HP config be able to go to lower percentages as well"
shell grotto
if you want to practice the boss AI, just do boss rush on a rev world
knowing what to expect is half the battle, lowering HP removes from the challenge, the reason the difficulties spike is not to have a small glide from 1 challenge to the other
onyx river
Doing boss rudh to practice rev AI is not a good idea for several reasons
Mainly that the AI are sometimes different in BR
shell grotto
arena and progression are different so its a very different situation with the bosses, correct?
k
opal bear
Thank you all for helping me refine my suggestion, but I still believe I am in the right suggesting this
onyx river
yes also
unkempt bolt
pretty sure juicymeat's sugg is future content
unkempt bolt
not to mention the nohit point is kinda invalid since master death would be +50% hp death with an extra acc slot
wooden wedge
The whole sugg is invalid because it's a don't
unkempt bolt
yeah
frail mantle
also suggesting something just for nohitters is because nohitters are such a small group of people within the community
opal bear
yeah lol
frail mantle
wooden wedge
As someone who's no-hit a few bosses, fuck no
frail mantle
wiki says Titan Arm sell price is 12 gold
opal bear
it seems it isn't
wooden wedge
What mod version are you on then
opal bear
idk tho
wooden wedge
Probably outdated
unkempt bolt
outdated or with other mods
wooden wedge
Sugg got deleted though so,,.,.
sleek turret
I founded that you can summon more than 1 Old Duke at the same time.
frail mantle
you can indeed
sleek turret
Using some sort of multi-fishing rods from calamity mod you can summon at least 10 Old Dukes with "The Devourer of Cods"
wooden wedge
It's the players choice if they wanna spawn 10 and die
sleek turret
make crabbar do a crazy challenge like that
wooden wedge
There's plenty of fishing rods that only have 1 bobber
No
Is that why you're here?
sleek turret
nah just lookin the wiki seeing what i can find
wooden wedge
So did you just find something on the wiki then repost it here
opal bear
they have over 32 bobbers
wooden wedge
I wasn't whying you
sleek turret
there are some unobtainable weapons in calamity mod.
wooden wedge
There are
Why are you talking about that here
This is sugg disc, not #calamity-mod-talk
atomic badger
frail mantle
004 what
wooden wedge
What mod version are you on though
frail mantle
1.4.004?
distant gyro
titan arm should sell for 12 gold
frail mantle
yea if it doesn't it's a bug
wooden wedge
Then see if it sells for a plat
radiant meadow
Conflicting names will be dealt with when Calamity updates to 1.4
there is no need to suggest it now @feral lance
wooden wedge
(yes and the sugg youre talking about is a don't)
distant gyro
wooden wedge
And the one above that too
distant gyro
i can confirm slap hand 2
frail mantle
ah yes
wooden wedge
Yes mods do that
frail mantle
Terraria being fuck™️
radiant meadow
also about duplicate names. Calamity has technically already set a precedent about not caring about vanilla and leaving it be.
exotic ibex
||suggestion:
rename sug...ons_posting into shitposting ||
radiant meadow
die
exotic ibex
ok
signal laurel
I need a reason to have the Picto Box from windwaker in Terraria...
potent veldt
Also that sounds insanely overpowered
wooden wedge
well you won't be getting it since
potent veldt
Oneshot every single enemy that isn't a boss
wooden wedge
y'know what
signal laurel
@potent veldt Anything can be balanced
potent veldt
Regardless of your reasoning, it's a don't.
It won't happen.
No matter how you try to justify it.
wooden wedge
there's like 3 don'ts in here.,/,
signal laurel
Its just a fun idea...
karmic stone
"It would be cool"
potent veldt
A fun idea that is a Don't.
wooden wedge
no reason, new class, and they said that they want an item from the wind waker
which would just be a reference for the sake of a reference
potent veldt
"Fun" is not enough reasoning to do anything. Rules exist to stop certain things that are "fun".
Fun is a happy byproduct of something. It shouldn't be the main reasoning.
wooden wedge
spider
void kelp
Oh good suggestion dark— do you have any other additions for it??
potent veldt
Nah
wooden wedge
I don't think the rarity sugg is possible
potent veldt
Was just really confused as to why Fearmonger has no heat protection
radiant meadow
the cold immunity is a byproduct of having frozen debuff immunity
void kelp
it’s still valid i thought
potent veldt
In fact, I could've sworn that it did have heat protection at some point
potent veldt
Unless I'm just crazy
wooden wedge
./,/.
void kelp
ah so it is possible
radiant meadow
custom calamity rarities default to an internal of 10
which is red
pretty sure you can just set item.rare to 11
void kelp
oh
potent veldt
I was gonna add "It's also a lategame armor set, so it should allow for both protections", but that works
wooden wedge
actually I think I got mixed up somewhere in trashboxs sugg.,/,/.,./
feral lance
Conflicting names will be dealt with when Calamity updates to 1.4
@radiant meadow thank you for explaining
humble fiber
oop
sand umbra
there's a game this reminds me of but I can't think of the name to save my life
wooden wedge
@exotic ibex it's a sugg with several don'ts in it
sand umbra
the fuck was it