okay, i was just confused about what we were calling rework and replace
#suggestions-discussion
zealous ridge
hollow shell
You could add to your suggestion "removing it opens opportunities for more unique content be added to the ice biome later" or something like that
mrrp ***b***lease I am trying to give you material here
sinful violet
But there is almost literally no need to. I think you've gotten a little bit too caught up on that stuff.
It is that unimportant
civic pond
what else does ice biome even offer anyways
onyx river
Tbh i don't think it will change how the sugg will get handeled anyways
civic pond
byech
sinful violet
I'm adamant because this just seems like precedent for overly wordy or justified suggestions when they really don't need to be.
It's ice tomb. No one remembers or cares about it.
Ice biome has ice shrine from cal, nothing else pre hm.
The house loot stuff was buffed to at least have frostburn
distant gyro
cryophobia memes
digital saddle
I think you could argue that ice tomb doesn't meet the standard of "worthwhile content" and without a clear reason why the effort of reworking it is worthwhile, it could just be removed
hollow shell
I am the suggestion channel man, and I value reasons above anything else
as indicated by the bold text in the #suggestions-posting pin and at the top of the Sugg Don'ts doc and the fact that I made you add it to the rules
so when I see a sugg with bad reasoning I want people to expand on it
sinful violet
can't angry dogs spawn on surface
sinful violet
could bait them and never even set foot on the snow
sand umbra
well yes but you're making a bold assumption by stating that Angry Dogs can spawn
molten dune
whats happened here
civic pond
Discussion.
sinful violet
Nothing important really
sand umbra
they never spawn if you're actively trying to get Leather
ever
this is a fact of life
hollow shell
Mrrp is being stubborn about keeping his suggestion concise
And I am being stubborn in telling him to expand it
sinful violet
And again rover, there are enough reasons in the actual suggestion to justify it. Adding more, like I said, busies it and makes it overly wordy in justifying what it needs to.
sinful violet
It's bad precedent for suggestions being overly wordy and complicated as is.
digital saddle
North going zax and south going zax
void kelp
ima go suggest something in the meantime
molten dune
ice tomb?
hollow shell
Mrrp reasons are there to convince people
molten dune
what is that
sand umbra
now if I may axe, what the fuck is a zax
molten dune
what isi t
sinful violet
Is anyone not convinced by the current suggestions that ice tombs are unimportant and need to go?
molten dune
Oh, that thing
hollow shell
"It's ice tomb. No one remembers or cares about it."
you can add this to your suggestion
sinful violet
Right?
molten dune
Idk it's actually very useful
sinful violet
br
molten dune
i like frozen things
civic pond
ice tombs as of now are
sinful violet
That's basically already there rover
civic pond
irrelevant
hollow shell
It isn't, actually.
sand umbra
anything you can get in an Ice Tomb can be gotten easier from somewhere else
hollow shell
You jsut say that it's big and has underwhelming loot.
sinful violet
Rover you're really getting too caught up on things. ""It's ice tomb. No one remembers or cares about it." is basically "Anything I say is redundant."
hollow shell
No, it's not, really
wide flicker
You actually didn't say that, you just said it is big, and has bad loot
molten dune
just make it also have more stuff
sinful violet
What does "Anything I say is redundant" imply at all then 
molten dune
it means that you think what you're saying has been said already
hollow shell
You say that because of the implication that nobody remembers it and is just mentioned flippantly
You don't actually say it
civic pond
Now someone remind me why we should kil ice tomb instead of make it smaller and give it unique loot?
sinful violet
Rover, that's nitpicking at this point
wide flicker
I didn't even know that is what you were implying
crude geode
You have 3 sentences that explain your reasoning, one of which is lowkey a very run on sentence. I shouldn't have to dissect a suggestion's implications, and most casual readers shouldn't either. The logic and reasoning should be easily digestible.
sinful violet
And it is
hollow shell
"Anything I say is redundant" is just an unhelpful retort to emphasize how valueless the ice tomb is
and does not describe the unmemorability of the structure in the eyes of the public
sinful violet
Anyone who reads it gets what the point is
hollow shell
Mrrp for the love of god
terse sundial
god
onyx river
yay
sinful violet
I'm adamant on not changing it because it'll lead to unnecessary parts to suggestions? That's what I've always thought. Too many of them right now already have too much added on and don't get to the point?
civic pond
uh
crude geode
uh
onyx river
more people getting involved
civic pond
hm
swift wadi
Spider has taken the initiative
sinful violet
Rover you need to loosen up about some of these things. Getting into things not "implicating" clearly enough isn't helping anything at all.
hollow shell
I wouldn't even be arguing if you added fuckin
one sentence to your suggestion
like anybody else would
zealous ridge
well okay, here's what im picking up from this
mrrp, your suggestion's base is fine, but the reasonings are kind of just "this is the ice tomb no one cares theres pretty useless stuff in there" which kind of a blanket statement that doesnt consider the fact that ice tomb, as boring as it is, adds a little bit, even if just a tiny amount, of interesting extra exploration to the ice biome. I can say that much is true in my playthroughs. I believe it can get away with being this short, it just needs better wording, in my opinion. I would say, hrmm... try and open it up a little bit.
for instance: the Ice tomb isn't really that interesting and takes up too much space. The only loot worth getting from it is the arctic gear because it cuts down on crafting. Remove or replace it with something more elaborate.
sinful violet
Because I'm trying to communicate something rover
That I don't feel those make suggestions any better
sinful violet
We've had to make rules for that as well
zealous ridge
in fact, you made that rule, actually
zealous ridge
eh
sinful violet
Is the reasoning unclear?
zealous ridge
i disagree, rover
sinful violet
That's what we're getting at
hollow shell
it's definitely less clear than it could be
wide flicker
If someone can't fully understand the reasoning, because they did not get the implication that requires people to see that others say it is forgettable and useless, they probably will miss the point
sinful violet
But does it not get it's point across?
terse sundial
tbh, a little sentence of reasoning is good for consistency
just to have each suggestion follow the same format
sinful violet
I'm utterly baffled at why this one suggestion is such a big deal, even without me not changing it.
hollow shell
The suggestion comes across like you really don't like ice tomb
and not the public does not remember ice tomb or think of it as being very significant
sinful violet
And the "public's" opinion comes in when people vote on it rover. Suggestions can be based off personal opinion, in fact, that's what most are.
onyx river
Well tbh i feel like mrrp's point is clear enough
sinful violet
Rover it's really unimportant
wide flicker
You could change the "what I say is redundant" part to something to say that it is bland and uninspired just to make that point clearer
crude geode
^
hollow shell
The more objective you make it, the better. It gives people more reason to vote for it
sinful violet
Rover I think it'd be better for you to drop the subject. I truly don't really mind what happens to it either way but you're really getting caught up on this one thing.
I'm fine with removing it too
Spider did send a more detailed version
radiant meadow
because you refused to edit yours
sinful violet
But nitpicking at that level just isn't necessary
void kelp
zealous ridge
he was just telling you some ways to improve it? is that not how this discussion started?
sand umbra
why did this become a huge thing
terse sundial
indeed, it would just be best for everyone to move on
zealous ridge
alright
terse sundial
please
zealous ridge
i guess its done then
sinful violet
I didn't edit mine because it just isn't necessary yeah. Rover pinged me about it which is the only reason I replied about it.
terse sundial
mrrp please
sinful violet
Spider I think you can mark yours with a check(?)
terse sundial
just leave it
sinful violet
(ik merk, I can't leave things unclear though 
)
void kelp
I feel weird abt self checking my own sugmas I’ll have someone else do it since it feels like power abuse,,
sinful violet
I think it's fine
radiant meadow
having a 2nd person look over it can't hurt though
sinful violet
It's clear that there's enough people here who agree with it that it's def fine yeah
void kelp
sounds a ok then!
hollow shell
Should Mrrp's be removed, then
sinful violet
Bot'll do it, won't it?
hollow shell
(which would be relatively ironic/symbolic) 
sinful violet
No need
radiant meadow
you can just wait for the natural clock
hollow shell
yeah
radiant meadow
unless you want to ig
hollow shell
I mean if it's never gonna go through then might as well
The clock exists to kill ditchers
radiant meadow
🔔
hollow shell
ding ding
void kelp
no longer is The List necessary
hollow shell
m I don't even know where the list is
Got stuck in a big pile of post-it notes when we evacuated dorms
sand umbra
/wavedashes in
hey so quick question: how do people feel about mauling the Mech Boss summon recipes that use Enchanted Metal and giving the material some other purposes instead
void kelp
sounds coolio
hollow shell
What other purpose do you have in mind
(you don't need to provide it in the sugg itself I guess, cept maybe as an example, I'm just wondering)
sand umbra
primarily weapon upgrades ala Wyvern's Call
hollow shell
nnnnah I would dislike that a lot
sand umbra
any particular reason why?
hollow shell
Very not unique
Yet another material for upgrading weapons with
In the dev server we were supposed to replace Enchanted Metal with Hallowed/Frigid bars very soon after Wyvern's Call got made
but we uhh forgot
but now it is happening in this update
sand umbra
sinful violet
Yeah we only remembered that we were supposed to kill enchanted metal from that recipe because I stumbled across it in a pt 
sand umbra
so then maul the Mech Boss summon recipes and...do thing???
hollow shell
Why do they need to be mauled?
sinful violet
You're right in that once you've killed the mech bosses it's basically useless, but they sit in a really weird place.
sand umbra
I counter your question with a question
sinful violet
If you want them to be used in weapons, they've got zero place
sand umbra
why does Calamity add a method of summoning a trio of bosses that can be encountered by 3 differing means already
hollow shell
(These should just be removed)
sand umbra
Mech Boss summons aren't particularly difficult to create
all 3 have a chance to drop from anything before their respective Mechs are downed
and smashing an altar gives a chance to encounter a random Mech at sundown each night
void kelp
either remove one or the other since it’s redundant
subtle oracle
Plus permafrost's metal exists
hollow shell
Krast please
subtle oracle
?
hollow shell
That's what this convo is about
void kelp
that’s what thomas us discussing
subtle oracle
sorry, i just delve into these convos without scrolling up or looking for context
hollow shell
m
sand umbra
well start not doing that
subtle oracle
subtle oracle
Okie
sand umbra
anywho I guess my point here really just boils down to mauling those mech summon recipes
and either giving Enchanted Metal another use or obliterating it entirely
hollow shell
The problem with 2 of the 3 methods you listed, Thomas
is that they're RNG reliant, one of them very heavily
sand umbra
you can still craft all 3 Mech summons
hollow shell
You can
sand umbra
and all 3 of them are relatively cheap
sinful violet
You do so much farming early hm anyway, you're bound to get one at some point
hollow shell
I do recall occasions when I was not able to craft em for one reason or another
subtle oracle
i forget the exact chance of getting a mech summoner to drop 
i think its a 3% chance
sand umbra
0.4%
hollow shell
but
if you can think of a decently unique purpose for the metals to have instead, I'll hear it out
sand umbra
but it's from any enemy from the moment you enter Hardmode
sinful violet
gl thinking of something balanced though
sand umbra
and if Souls of Light/Night are anything to go by this includes KS' slime spawns
which makes it a fantastic meme
spiral olive
souls suck to farm which is why enchanted metal exists tbh
void kelp
thomas’s 200 page document probably has something
sand umbra
what 200 page document
dapper coral
i mean... the only thing i can really think of for them to be useful would be to make daedalus keys if the daedalus lab thing got made, but since that's dependent on another suggestion that is way far away from even being considered to be implemented ima ignore it and say yeet em
subtle oracle
Which doc spider
sand umbra
what year are you from 
hollow shell
Thomas only has a 600 page document
sinful violet
Weapons would have no place, what with cryo, daedalus, and perma's own shop. Anything useful would also have to be consumable, like the spawns, but also not too useful, since you can buy this shit.
It's expensive, yeah, but rev mode.
subtle oracle
You get bonus coins with Rev enabled
sinful violet
To be entirely honest, I think it's not too big of a deal to keep it as is for right now.
Or remove the metals, and nerf some of the mech recipes, if they're that annoying.
That said, KS and fishing do exist.
And fishing rn is really just a bit broken.
sand umbra
byeah, it's even easier with Calamity's context because Fish of Light/Night exist
sinful violet
Just buy bait from merchant and craft the supreme tackle box and you'll have all the souls you need.
sand umbra
free souls for placing a bobber in evil/hallowed water
subtle oracle
The soul grab bags net you alot of souls, its quite broken
Just protect yourself from no clip enemies
sand umbra
a.k.a. why Summoner is chad
subtle oracle
It should become a recipe for Kelvin
hollow shell
I spose you could suggest that they just be given
any sort of new unique purpose
and don't specify
leave it up to the devs
void kelp
early-HM rogue armor?
subtle oracle
part of the recipe
void kelp
hmm
sand umbra
I'm just gonna write the sugg but stay vague on what kind of new purpose Enchanted Metal would be given
hollow shell
6 billion IQ old idea:
Remove one or two of Daedalus's helmets and make them the classes covered by new Enchanted Metal armor
subtle oracle
They are a material, that you can purchase... Pretty unique tbh
hollow shell
playthrough variety ftw
void kelp
pog
sand umbra
partially because it isn't really my place to be defining that
and partially because I don't have any ideas that wouldn't just be really weird
dapper coral
maybe make them drop from cryogen instead? then use them for kelvin or other daedalus items
idk
hollow shell
Frigid Bars
dapper coral
oh wait yea, nvm then they're pretty redundant
subtle oracle
Frigid bars are post cryo
hollow shell
indeed they are
hollow shell
indeed
molten dune
isnt the point of the arkhalis is to be absolutely shit in range but fantastic in damage?
hollow shell
yes
molten dune
quadrupling the range would make it broken
you'd need to nerf the damage or speed a lot
sinful violet
Rebrand them so they don't imply they have to craft gears (because they're bars) or anything metal, and have them combine with other unique materials to craft event spawners.
subtle oracle
So an arkhalis rework huh
hallow hatch
It’s supposed to be short range
hollow shell
aight the question is
Is that suggestion valid, just disagreeable (can get sent, just won't get stars)?
Or is it so disagreeable to the point of being invalid?
swift wadi
if it gets stars, it wont matter
A change like that completely fucks the balance of the weapon and possibly early game melee as a whole
civic pond
I see no need to change arkhalis.
subtle oracle
I don't think this sugg is valid, that would break the whole arkhalis's Gimmick
swift wadi
it would make it outstandingly good and remove a lot of the risk the weapon needs to be balanced
dapper coral
stars only mean its gets sent, not that it gets approved
hollow shell
@viral ferry (prolly wanna read this n' respond)
dapper coral
at the end of the day, its up to devs to figure out what they want to do with it
sand umbra
/bounces intently
civic pond
I completely forgot thats what enchanted metal was used for
hollow shell
this all seems fine
sand umbra
tbf it's not a particularly memorable material either but at this point anything else I could say would simply be drawing attention away from the main point
which is not something that should be done in a sugg
hollow shell
Sugg's how you want it? No more edits to be made?
cuz imma bout ready to check this guy
subtle oracle
One of the uses for enchanted metal i feel is this, maybe it should be part of Kelvin catalyst's recipe, or possibly the frost armor??
hollow shell
well unless we ask
subtle oracle
Right, i forget donor weps work like that
swift wadi
Lol
subtle oracle
dapper coral
well then we can let the devs decide what to add it to, i guess, we dont need it in the actual sugg
sand umbra
Sugg's how you want it? No more edits to be made?
cuz imma bout ready to check this guy
yeah
dapper coral
if they decide to add anything at all
sand umbra
just had to fix a few grammar mistakes
hollow shell
cool
sand umbra
it's voting time 
subtle oracle
But we do not know for sure yet 
We'll have to see what the devs think, of Thomas's sugg
radiant meadow
wyvern's call was an anamoly and several devs didn't like that it used enchanted metal
speaking of which, I need to slightly buff it
hollow shell
also, do we think the PotatOS animation suggestion is aight?
swift wadi
We had a sugg about this a while ago but I forget how it was received, how about just removing the unconsumable Profaned Core recipe and making Guardians drop it instead
I dont see a reason for it to exist at all
I think it's fine Rover
hollow shell
mmmyeah the Profaned Core situation is a lil bit weird
sand umbra
Profaned Core moment
wide flicker
It would need spriting, but it seems fine
hollow shell
aight
swift wadi
I will write a sugg about the core in a moment
radiant meadow
you have reason to refight the guardians now besides the fact that I suck at prov
:)
ignoring relic of resilience
sand umbra
Relic of Resilience intensifies
hollow shell
And what about Bearer's suggestion?
I was going to tell him that Fallen Stars are a decently rare resource.. but we added a recipe for them using a very easy to acquire material
sand umbra
Star Cannon starts falling off in Hardmode
hollow shell
Yes but he says its powerful for Hardmode bosses
radiant meadow
star cannon isn't exactly stronger than megashark
sand umbra
aside from like Destroyer
radiant meadow
well, that is unreliable anecdotal evidence it sounds like
hollow shell
Perhaps
hollow shell
Because it's a good ole balancing suggestion
sand umbra
there's a lack of statistical evidence here
hollow shell
@strong drift Provide kill times and gear setups
for Hardmode bosses using Star Cannon
radiant meadow
also like, star cannon ex exists
sand umbra
Star Cannon EX is weird
hollow shell
indeed it do
radiant meadow
I just know that star cannon ex sucks for moon lord
hollow shell
well yeah it's a post-Plant tier weapon
radiant meadow
my idiot head thought it got buffed w/ deus move
so I tried to test it on moon lord
hollow shell
ah
subtle oracle
This applies to some bosses right? Bosses like Scal have animations
although its not unique
radiant meadow
had a why does this take 6 minutes moment then checked the recipe
sand umbra
why does Star Cannon EX have this weird half-inheritance-half-not of the Star Cannon's functionality
hollow shell
Well it adds to the function
It fires Star Cannon's stars and new stars
What's it lose, if anything?
sand umbra
the new stars don't infinitely pierce like standard Star Cannon stars and one of them still doesn't go through tiles
subtle oracle
Bonus stars won't hurt, its more DPS at that 
sand umbra
sure, it can fire infinitely-piercing stars
hollow shell
(The one that doesn't go through tiles is Star Cannon's)
sand umbra
wait wut
hollow shell
m
sand umbra
since when do both of the new stars go through tiles
hollow shell
November
hollow shell
radiant meadow
starfury buff lol
hollow shell
aight so
while we wait for those kill times
How about the Ichor / Cursed Flames sugg
This is kind of a major one in a way
subtle oracle
That sort off exists? You can convert them using other mods
terse sundial
It doesn't really kill balancing
hollow shell
Other mods don't exist
sand umbra
that Ichor/CFlame sugg is gonna be a hard no from me
crude geode
Like all of these corruption/crimson merge suggs, I don't like it.
terse sundial
but I don't like that idea personally
sand umbra
I don't like how much people try to get Corruption and Crimson to coexist
crude geode
^^^^^
radiant meadow
I'd rather not give an inch and then have people suggest to convert 50 other things
terse sundial
alternatively buff cursed flames to be usable
hollow shell
aight well even if it is disliked
Is it a valid suggestion
terse sundial
sand umbra
it just means Crimson becomes even more meta and Corruption becomes even more useless
terse sundial
indeed, it is still valid
subtle oracle
If you want them to coexist, then use Fargo's two world evil mod or something
radiant meadow
valid, maybe
subtle oracle
sand umbra
it's valid, yes
radiant meadow
gonna happen, no
sand umbra
but like
hollow shell
Aight cool
Just won't get stars then, or even if it does it'll get dev voted down
sand umbra
rather than making Crimson available in all worlds
how about we make Corruption content actually usable
crude geode
^^^^^^^^^^
subtle oracle
Way to shoot that sugg down 😔
sand umbra
Bloody Worm Scarf and AmalgaBrain both annoy me for this reason but that's a topic for another time...and probably another place
void kelp
epsilon’s sugg is a check right
sand umbra
yes
hollow shell
It was just posted smh
hollow shell
okay cool I didn't even get to read it 
void kelp
swift wadi
LOL
digital saddle
kelvin catalysts crafting recipe is kind of ridiculous imo
its barely more powerful than a regular cryogen drop now
swift wadi
This is truly a gamer moment
sand umbra
I mean I get why it is, Ben, but like
void kelp
this is what I wanted power for
radiant meadow
not changing kelvin catalyst recipe
void kelp
approving suggestions,,,
sand umbra
it's still a near-necessary combination of opposite evil biome items
radiant meadow
also not rebalancing it because hell no
sand umbra
(you need BWS for CotBG, and you need AB for Amalgam)
(and while the latter isn't impressive at all the former is basically a must-have going into Yharon and SCal if you wanna not pop your revives instantly)
radiant meadow
right, Amalgam needs to like not suck
sand umbra
oh yeah make Amalgam not suck
thanks
void kelp
give the buffs outside of water tbh
hollow shell
haha Ben you know what to do
dapper coral
amalgam get actually useful lifesteal?????
radiant meadow
+30% dmg boost
hollow shell
time to bug the spriters
void kelp
wait too far
radiant meadow
ez win
sand umbra
make it the ultimate offensive accessory
radiant meadow
cotbg is defensive with a weird offensive perk
sand umbra
as something of a counterpart to CotBG which can be regarded as the ultimate defensive/close-quarters accessory
radiant meadow
so should we make amalgam offensive with a weird defensive perk?
sand umbra
more or less, probably
sand umbra
though this really boils down to most of its components not being particularly useful
void kelp
make it unique sprite when in amalgam tbh,,
radiant meadow
fungal clump should be just as fast if not faster than psa
sand umbra
Leviathan Ambergris is......something
ashen warren
Farming for the relics from the guardians and instead your inventory fills with unconsumable and unstackable profaned cores 
dapper coral
i mean, maybe buff fungal clump range on the amalgam? no one is gonna stand that close to any boss ever
void kelp
autotrash icon be like
radiant meadow
he should get a range buff and a speed buff probably ye
thankfully, the vanilla AI it uses is nice and short and easy to copy
ashen warren
Fungal clump should be same speed as non-psc babs ye
radiant meadow
unlike aiStyle 26
swift wadi
On second thought my sugg should have been to make the guardians drop the unconsumable core after you beat them for the first time and consumable ones from that moment forward
But too late for that
radiant meadow
26 is a horrible thing
it has like over half the pets and a sizable chunk of minions
hollow shell
if only the sugg wasn't approved immediately
radiant meadow
including spiders, slimes, like literally all the grounded pets, and for some reason baby skeletron head
and pygmies
ashen warren
Ye Spider it’s good to let the suggestions sit for a bit so input can be given, ya never know what might come up
void kelp
yee
viral ferry
I guess that I can agree that quadrupling the range on arkhalis is way too crazy. Doubling it, not as bad. I kind of don't like it with knockback at all. Crissergrim doesn't have knockback iirc, it simply just fires off and things take damage from it. Maybe that'd be a better, and more accurate homage.
hollow shell
Well I mean it doesn't need to act exactly like its source material
Its gotta be adapted for Terraria
and I think it having knockback helps to make it quite powerful against enemies
void kelp
I got too pogged up to approve suggestions but yeah, gotta let em simmer a bit
swift wadi
Spider posts a suggestion and then immediately checks it off himself: "I AM the senate"
void kelp
that’s me excited to have power
radiant meadow
power hungry people require demote
viral ferry
I kind of liked the idea of being able to fuse two arkhalis together in the tinkerer's workshop for one moment before remembering it's a special rare drop, and though you could equip two crissergrim in SOTN, that's just not a option here, save for the dual wield mods.
void kelp
“Who needs to wait for rover to be on when you can approve suggestions ourselves???”
hollow shell
It is
void kelp
heck yeah!
subtle oracle
Im thinking of a sugg, here is a rough intro...
ashen warren
there’s a reason we wait but ye, it’s good it’s not just all on like one or two peeps
subtle oracle
Implement recipes that convert Rouge variants of certain weapons into their Melee Variants, and Vice Verca
Does this sound good?
terse sundial
isn't that a don't?
ashen warren
Yes
swift wadi
merk
subtle oracle
Oh shit
void kelp
yeah it’s a don’t
radiant meadow
Rover went on break and some people were concerned that something was wrong.
smoky wagon
why is that a don't
hollow shell
wait is it?
smoky wagon
out of curiousity
radiant meadow
it's a ☑️
void kelp
I think asking to convert is a dont
subtle oracle
Even Rover didn't know it was a don't 
terse sundial
I thought it was a dont
hollow shell
Yeah that's not a Don't, not as far as I can tell
subtle oracle
Apearnatly it is
radiant meadow
vanilla items are a don't
swift wadi
isn't that a don't?
isnt that a dont
this is how you can tell merk is a wiki editor and im not, he's got that punctuation™️
terse sundial
it sounds like a don't tbh
smoky wagon
im not sure why the ability to freely convert the calamity dual class weapons isnt allowed
radiant meadow
but like I said, it's a ☑️
smoky wagon
unless there is no way to force no prefixes
hollow shell
(those are synonymous)
void kelp
tbh I liked the “remove the doubled weapon types” suggestion
smoky wagon
didnt the devs want to remove the dual class weapons at one point
wide flicker
Yeah, making rouge more separate from melee
radiant meadow
Somehow I thought remove = convert
hollow shell
Nah iirc it was just suggested Guwa
radiant meadow
but like remove the rogue variants, not the melee variants
hollow shell
actually nah it got approved
swift wadi
O
void kelp
removing seems like a great balance change since they’re redundant weapons and all,
hollow shell
and here is the relevant one:
terse sundial
it just hasn't happened yet
smoky wagon
i mean you just nerf melee by doing that
radiant meadow
I refuse to remove the melee ones.
crude geode
Not really.
subtle oracle
Relevant one, Mine is irrelevant you say ?
radiant meadow
yes
void kelp
they existed before since rogue didn’t have many options but now that rogue has options it feels weird to have them
quick ice
yes
hollow shell
No I mean the Chibii one was not relevant to your suggestion
but the Nick one is relevant to your suggestion
subtle oracle
I didn't see that, apologies
haughty lotus
Hi
hollow shell
hey
subtle oracle
What is up
void kelp
.003
hollow shell
radiant meadow
not the place to ask iirc
sand umbra
hi there 
subtle oracle
Wrong chat moment
sand umbra
welcome to suggestion discussion, where we talk about suggestions in #suggestions-posting so that they can be good and then be sent to #suggestions-voting
haughty lotus
lol
swift wadi
@haughty lotus you can go to #general-talk if you wanna have a convo with some peeps and #calamity-mod-talk if you have questions about the mod
sand umbra
swift wadi
But here is not the place to do it
viral ferry
Though I liked putting my idea forward, I don't like the idea that it would take time away from other things. It still stands that I think it doesn't live up to it's original. It's a game breaking item practically... as in, get it and you basically won the game already. The Arkhalis in vanilla doesn't come anywhere near that. I can't really imagine that doubling it's range would be a huge unbalancing of things, just that it would become more comfortable to use. It would be quickly outclassed by all the superior items available. I don't really think it needs damage upgrade, just maybe a range and possible toggle for knockback... for the sake of accuracy. I think it would be more comforting to watch an enemy fall apart as it walks through the attack, rather than having it bounce back and have to wait to finish it off.
hollow shell
Well yeah it's just Arkhalis
not Halibut Cannon
it shouldn't be a game breaker
I got some good use out of Arkhalis when I got it, personally
smoky wagon
maybe make arkhalis a bit easier to get
subtle oracle
Craftable via H mode btw
radiant meadow
it eats Desert Scourge's face off
hollow shell
Well
Pop a Defiled and go underground
smoky wagon
balancing items around being rare isnt good practice
subtle oracle
iirc
quick ice
it drops from Cosmic Elementals
subtle oracle
and those
quick ice
so it's already loads easier than vanilla
smoky wagon
whats the drop chance
sand umbra
Cosmic Elementals never needed to drop those rare swords though
smoky wagon
they literally exist to drop them
quick ice
they don't but they do
viral ferry
Tbh I never even spent time using Arkhalis, as my first thought was, I don't like it as it is.
I gave it some mild testing to be sure.
hollow shell
Rename Cosmic Elemental to "Blade Elemental" and resprite/rework them because the word "cosmic" is overused
hollow shell
ah
sand umbra
honestly
if you're gonna make their sole purpose dropping swords
then at least make 'em resemble the swords they drop
subtle oracle
Cosmic, seems like a word that should be used Post ml or something
swift wadi
Hunger mechanic
subtle oracle
not pre H mode
swift wadi
radiant meadow
I dislike hunger
smoky wagon
the only purpose of a hunger mechanic would be fucking over players in the early game
radiant meadow
also like
smoky wagon
so how about we dont
radiant meadow
food early game is annoying
hollow shell
He says Hardmode, Guwa
radiant meadow
unless you happen to live in the snow biome and buy marshmallows
sand umbra
debuffs for not being a fatass? I highly disapprove
hollow shell
There's even a note at the bottom
subtle oracle
Just buy like, 999 Pho from merchat
hollow shell
ok
radiant meadow
if you like fishing, you're like set for life lmao
smoky wagon
why randomly add mechanics to death mode when hardmode starts
subtle oracle
If it does become implemented, it should be toggleable in configs
sand umbra
Death Mode does not need more new mechanics
wide flicker
Also why does calamity specifically need to add hunger?
sand umbra
it needs expansion upon, and ironing out of, the existing mechanics it possesses
more != better
better == better
subtle oracle
Death mode is already tough enough, i remember a time when it was really unstable... Like enemies literally one shot you if you had D mode on, im glad that got removed... Am i spouting BS?
smoky wagon
lol
subtle oracle
Oh ye
radiant meadow
but that was a long time ago
subtle oracle
i was right then 😎
sand umbra
then it became "bosses are vaguely more difficult and have more stats"
subtle oracle
That kind of put me away from it... I was like fuck this
sand umbra
then it became "bosses go into their toughest phase instantly which makes some bosses easier and also now there are environmental effects"
subtle oracle
Now i can actually play it, its become playable
smoky wagon
last time i played death mode cnidrions moved at light speed
i wasnt having fun with that
subtle oracle
I think it was called something like, Prepare to Cry mode
smoky wagon
but it was fixed
sand umbra
I do feel that, rather than focusing on bosses or new mechanics
attention should be drawn to expanding upon the existing mechanics in Death Mode that are environmental effects
making those better and more interactive
viral ferry
So, my opinion on a arkhalis adjustment is triple the range, and 100% remove knockback.
sand umbra
making more things involved with heat/cold mechanics
crude geode
I'll go ahead and remove the sugg then.
swift wadi
If a sugg breaks a strict dont, do I delete it or let it decay?
crude geode
Idea seems pretty unpopular
quick ice
delete after 24 hours unless it's very brainlet
sand umbra
making more things involved with the environmental effects, perhaps make them able to be staved off with later-game items
there's a lot of things you can do with the current environmental effects but somehow people focus on just adding more
swift wadi
well the "Make a mod that is a bonus Thorium compatibility" is just not allowed in general
so
hollow shell
I already pinged them
swift wadi
ah
hollow shell
I wait for them to respond before deleting them outright
radiant meadow
ding dong ditcher
hollow shell
(or if they don't respond, they'll decay)
sand umbra
the fact that Death Mode fundamentally changes how you play the game is already something of a complaint that I've seen from multiple people
subtle oracle
Half-life Decay
sand umbra
so why not work to make the new mechanics fold less jankily into the existing ones rather than add more mechanics
crude geode
^^^
viral ferry
I can't figure out a way to ask for a more accurate Crissagrim that exists in the ruleset.
sand umbra
I never said it was!
hollow shell
Well you can just remove the "or quadruple" from your sugg if you agree that's ridiculous
sand umbra
but it has this very blunt "you either really like it or you really don't like it" feeling about it
which may turn off even the veteran players that it's balanced around from playing with it
viral ferry
I mean... without knockback the quadruple thing seems reasonable
sand umbra
I think a large portion of that comes from the fact that Death's environmental mechanics don't quite blend well into existing Terraria mechanics and progression at all
viral ferry
It'd be comparably accurate.
sand umbra
especially given what Calamity makes necessary and what it makes useless for its main claim to fame: boss fighting
subtle oracle
Quadruple?! Arkhalis will become a literal Blade beam
viral ferry
Okay, triple then.
quick ice
To any dev out there, is the demon trophy designed to make the game harder or make grinding easier?
smoky wagon
both
subtle oracle
Its only a 0.25x multiplier iirc
quick ice
I know, just trying to figure out if the Demon Trophy is a Difficulty Item, a QoL item or both
viral ferry
In SOTN, if the Crissagrim wasn't good enough to instakill anything, you'd have to turn around and run. I figure without knockback you'd simulate that effect in Terraria.
wide flicker
Why does it need to be 1:1 with sotn exactly?
viral ferry
Why shouldn't it be? It's referencing a fan favorite weapon. Doing it inaccurately feels like a disservice. It might be unintentional, but it could be really easily fixed.
swift wadi
It can be a homage and not a straight copy
wide flicker
Second question, why does Calamity need to do this?
viral ferry
It really doesn't.
wide flicker
As far as we know, another mod can do this
viral ferry
Is there one?
void kelp
no but another mod could
viral ferry
The appeal of Calamity is in all the content it adds. I like the suggested change to Arkhalis, but it maybe ought to be asked of elsewhere.
swift wadi
The content it adds, not the vanilla content it changes
hollow shell
It's okay to suggest this for Calamity
viral ferry
Okay
hollow shell
I agree that it doesn't need to be 1:1 with SotN though
However, I think
this sugg is valid enough
One last change I'd suggest is changing "Triple" to something like "Greatly increase"
just to be a bit more general, more wiggle room
Yeah, this should be fine
might not get a lotta stars tho :P
viral ferry
Done
subtle oracle
i Starred it 🙂
viral ferry
Thank you.
hollow shell
Actually I have a question
How would we feel about a special reaction for #suggestions-posting for when the suggester has been pinged with a request for edit/feedback, but they haven't responded yet?
Doesn't need actual functionality, just an indicator that a mod has put out the warning and is currently waiting (so no further conversation/pinging is needed till they return)
terse sundial
should we bring back ❕
hollow shell
Heh
hollow shell
Probably would be ❗ now
terse sundial
yeah, the red one works also
hollow shell
I was thinkin ⏰ initially but that could be a lil more confusing
terse sundial
I'm fine with that
swift wadi
The question mark makes sense imo
hollow shell
as in "waiting for response"
quick ice
they're not being questioned, they're being told to edit the sugg
swift wadi
true
quick ice
also yeah, Sub-Class stuff is a don't
hollow shell
@brave brook That suggestion is this Don't embodied
brave brook
it's not me trying to make specific subclasses viable at every point in progression it's me trying to make it possible to get through the entire game at all (regardless of if it's the best option or even a good option)
gray nebula
Same thing
brave brook
it feels bad to try to do a challenge only to realize it's completely impossible
hollow shell
Subclass only runs are not real runs
They're challenges
imposed on yourself
Class runs are real runs
subtle oracle
^^^
swift wadi
I like this earth ele sugg, although I feel like buffing things like this without adding things to them so there's an equilibrium is really weird
gray nebula
You should try checking if your challenge is doable before starting
frail mantle
wouldn't that count as trying to make subclass playthroughs viable at the very start of the game
patent nimbus
i just wish earth eles didnt spawn so much
hollow shell
It's fully possible to beat the game with each of the 5 main classes
If you can't do it with only yoyos or only spell tomes, that's fine
because melee and magic have other options that you can use
subtle oracle
A yoyo challenge huh? I think there is a huge roadblock somewhere in the run
quick ice
if Earth Elemental is nerfed then it's not really a miniboss, is it?
brave brook
that's what i've been trying to do and finding that saying for example repeaters literally don't exist until hardmode
patent nimbus
maybe make it less frequent?
quick ice
sure, that's better
swift wadi
The thing with this sugg is almost nothing, to my knowledge, gets meaninglessly buffed in calamity
Bosses post Provi gain drops, Clam gains drops
Aureus post ML gains drops
Just being like "earth elemental is now harder because lol he stays relevant as an enemy now" is pretty weak
quick ice
sure, but you don't go into the caves Post-Mech
subtle oracle
Earth elemental is a literall Trash mob later on the game
he exists to ruin Pre H mode boss cave exploration
patent nimbus
^
ashen warren
many mobs are like that 
swift wadi
sure, but you don't go into the caves Post-Mech
Not a great argument because this makes a reason to go into the caves, he doesn't have to be some side thing you fight while doing something else
subtle oracle
Glad you're back with the dev team amber
swift wadi
Why not "I should go into the cavern and fight an earth ele so I can get x drop"
hollow shell
mod team*
subtle oracle
Whatever,
hollow shell
lol
quick ice
I'd say suggesting Earth Elemental have drops Post-Plant is better than Post-Mech, since there's already a reason to go back Post-Plant and expanding upon that is better than making another point in progression where caves get stuff
dapper coral
i mean, he drops arid artifact rn but you gonna use that thing like, twice max, and his other weapons are kinda meh imo
ashen warren
post plant is already incredibly bloated with content so idk about that one chief
sinful violet
and not to say its drops aren't already two melee weapons with questionable amounts of usage but
last thing we need are more post plant melee weapons
swift wadi
Earth Elemental now spawns only in the jungle temple 
quick ice
hollow shell
@sinful yarrow Keep the whole suggestion in one message please (use shift+enter)
(and also make sure the topmost first line of your suggestion is the main idea of your suggestion, for bot formatting purposes
the first line of your sugg gets made into the big bold text you see in #suggestions-voting )
quick ice
wait, this conversation has given me an idea
subtle oracle
Post plant is when Hard mode really progresses, Mechs were the beginning... The sauce on the side
sinful yarrow
I fixed it
hollow shell
ye thanks
swift wadi
Doesnt count as a SIS right?
hollow shell
Why specifically the gem crawlers tho?
It could be excused if Skeletera gives reason for using crawlers
(also the main line should probably say "summon staves" or "summoner staves" so people don't get confused)
subtle oracle
Its pretty vague, if it was less vague THEN it would become an SIS
hollow shell
It's not that vague
subtle oracle
Like, literally suggesting a name, features
quick ice
changing it to something like "Make a gem-themed summon weapon" would be better imo, with reasoning of easier to get started and gives Gem Crawlers a use for the summoner class
hollow shell
(well, Diamonds do get them the Spirit Glyph)
subtle oracle
Spirit glyph turns into the hallowed rune, etc
hollow shell
It does indeed give them more of a use for summoners tho
sand umbra
yelling about subclasses doesn't make them any more enticing to work with
what makes subclasses enticing to work with is allowing the devs to decide for themselves what subclasses they do and don't want to expand upon
that way, they can set up that stuff on their own terms with their own concepts
yes I'm late to this conversation but goddamnit I'm legally obligated to give my two cents
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/465195069406707722/644633060146544670
this is a bit of an oldie from yours truly but I feel like it bears repeating at this point
because the situation does still apply, albeit perhaps less than it used to
people still overexcite themselves about subclass viability while forgetting the whole point of a subclass is to provide more diversity amongst a primary class
the primary class' resulting changes in content amount and variety should still be the focus of any given sugg, even if it's lowkey about making a certain subclass viable
(e.g. maybe suggest a rogue bomb or rogue javelin be added directly post-ML --- early post-ML has historically lacked rogue content in particular and could use a bit more variety. adding one of these would both improve the viability of either subclass and furthermore grant rogue some additional viable options prior to taking down angery fire goddess. kill two birds with one stone!)
subtle oracle
I agree, there's not much to do with just "Elemental Disk"
void kelp
hey that’s a good reason
hollow shell
well there's also Lunar Kunai and Stellar Contempt and Celestial Reaper and Luminous Striker
subtle oracle
Or utensil poker
hollow shell
and that, yes
sand umbra
I'm going off of class setups here and there's still arguably less content than other areas of the game and other classes at that tier
hollow shell
(I'm going off of raw weapons)
sand umbra
if going off of all weapons, we have...
- Ele Disk rogue
- Stellar Contempt rogue
- Celestial Reaper (but like imagine remembering NPC purchases exist)
- Luminous Striker, if it happens to be viable for Provi
- Hell's Sun
- Lunar Kunai (does anyone use these?)
- Funny 70k DPS Stealth Strike Silverware (Utensil Poker)
hollow shell
(Lunar Kunai are p cool
I didn't use em much cuz I'm personally averse to using consumables tho I support them in concept)
sand umbra
yeah they're cool
hollow shell
also haha we have NPC shop indicators now
frail mantle
i found Kunais to be nice vs Birb cause it was easier to get hits in
hollow shell
We did recently make ML drop more Luminite
sand umbra
I mean yeah but still
you need Luminite for a shitload of things
class armor + new weaponry + multiple gear upgrades
subtle oracle
Luminite is essential for Post ml content
sand umbra
consumables aren't exactly something most people think to spend their hard-earned Luminite on
subtle oracle
Lunar kunai Why
quick ice
new biome suggestion
sand umbra
which automatically puts Lunar Kunai at something of a disadvantage, although I do support their idea
subtle oracle
I feel like consumable Throwing weps should be reworked or smth
crude geode
worldgen
void kelp
@glossy palm biome suggestions are a “don’t”, sorry
toxic kettle
also "the void" already exists
glossy palm
oof, alright sorry
hollow shell
That sounds like a new biome suggestion
Also modifying world height is a big bad thing, we used to do it and it caused a lot of problems
glossy palm
too much effort
quick ice
All good nym
sand umbra
either way, rogue could certainly use at least 1 or 2 more options, considering it doesn't have ML's drop pool or Bumblebirb/Dragonfolly to supplement its choices
glossy palm
ty, sorry- I just thought of it while fighting the damn thing
sand umbra
(yes I know Utensil Poker is an ML drop but it's the only rogue drop he has while every other class gets at least 2, shhhhh)
anywho, at the end of the day, the point I was tryin' to make is that it's better to make a suggestion where the primary class is the main focus, with subclass viability being more of an underlying tone rather than the boldface at the top
because that's more likely to happen strictly on a level of "are the devs going to approve of this concept"
subtle oracle
Meanwhile, melee has like 2 weps from ML
sand umbra
it has one weapon
subtle oracle
Terraria devs really moved Thrower to the side huh
frail mantle
Star Wrath is aight, innit
sand umbra
Star Wrath is pretty chad
patent nimbus
grand dad?
vague karma
Virgin Meowmere vs CHAD STAR WRATH
subtle oracle
GRAND DAD
sand umbra
please no
vague karma
But it's useless
sand umbra
then you make it not useless
toxic kettle
can we just get rid of gravity globe
sand umbra
not make it a weapon
subtle oracle
What? Gravity glove actually having a use? idk go for it 😄
wide flicker
Star wrath is the thing you see in screenshots from that small community of people who PVP in Vanilla Terraria and saying everyone who they beat is just a "modded noob"
toxic kettle
Starfury is the real shit
sand umbra
I remember suggesting to megabuff Grav Globe and move it back to Expert+ a while back
because yes Gravity Globe drops in Normal now and it leaves ML without an actual Expert drop
vague karma
The best pvp in terraria is copper shortsword
void kelp
I recall sands making a sugg to allow it to negate low grav effects
no memeing please,:,
sand umbra
to assess the inevitable follow-up: Suspicious Looking Tentacle isn't a true Expert drop, it's ML's pet drop but masked as an Expert drop to hide the fact that Gravity Globe sucks
...actually, I don't think that Grav Globe sugg ever made it to dev server
I might sugg it again
toxic kettle
I recall sands making a sugg to allow it to negate low grav effects
So Gravity Normalizer Potion but worse
vague karma
Yep
dapper coral
one week resugg limit, if its outside of that then go ahead
toxic kettle
I feel like whatever you do with Gravity Globe, it just stays awful
void kelp
resugg time
toxic kettle
EE?
earnest harness
grav globe
subtle oracle
Repost it
vague karma
I would actually donate 50$ to see gravity globe weapon that uses gravitation but i'm broke 
subtle oracle
Maybe it will gain traction?
sand umbra
toxic kettle
if equipping Gravity Globe doesn't give you double damage while in reverse gravity, why even bother
subtle oracle
What is that emote Thomas? What emotion is it supposed to imply?
swift wadi
bounce
sand umbra
bounce
void kelp
gonna let it simmer iirc
subtle oracle
vague karma
So it bounces
sand umbra
EE Grav Globe grants Distorted immunity and fall damage immunity, can actually flip in mid-air with no cooldown, and grants increased jump and fall speed while flipped
thinking about it I could probably give it something along the lines of Grav Normalizer Potion effect as well since space
void kelp
those are pog effects that make it not useless
vague karma
Just make it summon a true eye of cthulhu minion while flipped
sand umbra
yeet
there's a lot of different ways you can go about it, really --- the way I did it's just an example
hollow shell
(btw I've gotta bounce so I'll leave it up to funny new trial mods to do approvals 👍 gl)
subtle oracle
PogH new grav globe
vague karma
I have an idea for globe
subtle oracle
Cya Rover
swift wadi
See ya later Rover!
subtle oracle
👋
void kelp
pog!!
sand umbra
bye Rover
frail mantle
subtle oracle
vague karma
Make all gravity affected weap projectiles not affected by it
subtle oracle
Oh I forget this emote EXISTS now
vague karma
subtle oracle
PogU
void kelp
subtle oracle
You've done a good job provi,
toxic kettle
is finally a thing I see
frail mantle
hahaues
subtle oracle
Unlike me, I was unable to get THE FAILURE into cal main
void kelp
he gained ascension
sand umbra
lack of gravity on projectiles could be interesting (although it'd require a lot of AI adjustments for existing projectiles)
subtle oracle
He questions its existence
sand umbra
WAIT A MINUTE LEON HAS CD
void kelp
we can
subtle oracle
Emote?
void kelp
you need a good reason tho
frail mantle
i do indeed
sand umbra
congrats my guy
gray nebula
void kelp
and yeah he got ASCENSION
frail mantle
thank
swift wadi
Leon's sugg and beautiful emote were actually SO GOOD he got CD for them
subtle oracle
Leon has cd, how did you not realize that already Thomas ? Did you mistake Leon for the Serous man??
gray nebula
I don't even have the wegud png so I can't suggest it myself
someone else pls suggest it tyty
swift wadi
aight i got you
frail mantle
***Add 
***
Reason for this suggestion: is good emote
sand umbra
I'd rather suggest useful things like Grav Globe buff
frail mantle
clyde go eat fuck
sand umbra
void kelp
why not both,
void kelp
also, Thomas, you got any more edits to make to your suggestion?
subtle oracle
You know what I want, I want that one emote with the nick young face with the question marks
void kelp
gonna give it the check if you’re good w it
subtle oracle
sand umbra
I...don't think so? unless there's like grammar mistakes I missed
...okay yeah lookin' over it it's good to go
void kelp
not using an em dash ig??? but that’s being pedantic and unnecessary
sand umbra
time for it to sputter out and die 10 stars from threshold again
gray nebula
sand umbra
gray nebula
thanks for suggesting wegud very cool very nice
subtle oracle
Its a cat emote?!
void kelp
it’s one of Iban’s many cattos
sand umbra
yes
subtle oracle
I didnt expect that from an emote called "wegud"
subtle oracle
MODS approve of this sugg already
void kelp
hey epsi wanna approve it
gray nebula
self approval
swift wadi
YES
gray nebula
swift wadi
THE SELF APPROVAL
terse sundial
btw, you didn't need to create a suggestion for it
subtle oracle
Its already in??
swift wadi
why not
terse sundial
you could've just posted it in mod corner
gray nebula
bruh
swift wadi
the memes were important
gray nebula
I mean I'm the one who wanted to suggest it in the first place
gray nebula
epsi just sent it for me
swift wadi
just because im a mod, do i truly have the power to skip the sugg system?
terse sundial
yes
void kelp
do we truly have the power to skip rover’s brainchild???
terse sundial
your choice
gray nebula
wegud will get 120 stars in no time anyways because its a godly emote
terse sundial
indeed
void kelp
wegud
gray nebula
frail mantle
aren't all emote suggs lowkey memey
swift wadi
weok lmao'
gray nebula
yhadios emote moment
swift wadi
where's "we"?
gray nebula
no we but I have a weg
subtle oracle
I swear, if wegud makes it. But not THE FAILURE. I'll riot
swift wadi
weg?
gray nebula
