yeah
#suggestions-discussion
void kelp
golden shoal
yeah but he also is a scam artist
distant gyro
true
wooden wedge
@golden shoal fix the name to angel not angle iirc
because angle statues don't exist..,.,.
radiant meadow
void kelp
“I have way too many of these angel statues, care to buy some?”
civic pond
@ashen warren do you have anything in mind for post duke content though?
void kelp
specific item,.
toxic kettle
some kind of baby fishrons
reminder that three fishron mounts already exist
void kelp
we are here to help
civic pond
Post duke sunken sea content
Is there anything that would even be lacking then
a
Hostile maybe considering everything is peaceful prior
Although whats the main reason behind this again?
olive token
when do suggs get sent to devs?
mine has 134 i think it needs to stay above 120 for a certain amount of time
olive token
yea idk y its not sending there must be some sort of time limit that it needs to say over 120
if it sent there would be a green check emote
at least according to the pins
void kelp
it’s that or bot is bugging out
oh! also @ashen warren https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/701601539541827594
olive token
mmm yea i wanted that to happen
void kelp
you don’t need to suggest it, someone suggested it already c:
olive token
other than the slightly over power rogue weapon there is no reason to ever go back
new ores tend to not spawn in there ether so its even discouraging to go there
kinda sad because its my favorite new biome
it would make since for something to happen once aquatic scourge has died
its kinda like a happy version of the abyss
tired haven
@raven shell testing on dummies is about the worst thing you could have done
Try this weapon on providence
wooden wedge
they also tested with a lot of other flawed factors
4+ items aren't from calamity, 2 items are out of tier, has wingslot, tests on a target dummy, uses a crowd control weapon on a singular small entity
hallow kraken
A lot of the gear and mods make this flawed
wooden wedge
and tarragon armor
hallow kraken
Also those buffs
vague laurel
lol eldritch tome with lxuors gift made my DPS skyrocket by 400 to 700
in prehardmode
with building accessories on
not op at all
dapper coral
sorry, can someone explain to me why its so flawed? I get the dummy vs. boss bit, but as long as he has the same accessories and settings and all that, why does it matter if the things aren't from calamity?
wooden wedge
because it isn't a proper test
for a test on calamity thing you need only calamity things
toxic kettle
It should be fine if the accessories from another mod don't affect the weapons in question in different ways
wooden wedge
how do we know that those accessories don't give +50% damage?
dapper coral
but as long as it does it to each weapon the same, does it matter? obviously dps will be impacted but isnt the point just to show which one is faster at killing things?
toxic kettle
But people like to compare numbers from tests to the usual numbers which are achieved without stuff from other mods
dapper coral
oh i see
olive token
class setup pages exist for a reason not all weapons are created equal
earnest harness
having outside-mod content makes it hard to recreate tests because a) you'd have to have other testers testing using the same mod setup instead of "just calamity" and b) calamity isn't balancing around other mods' content more or less
olive token
only around 4-5 weapons in each class are viable as a given point in the game
dapper coral
got it, thanks for clarifying
raven shell
the test is supposed to prove that the disc is weaker than the utensil thing
brittle nexus
different weapons also have different purposes
not all of them are boss killers
some are crowd control as an example
wooden wedge
and also
you tested against a single target dummy
which isn't accurate whatsoever for these kinds of weapon tests
raven shell
would that not have teh same result as fighting, say providence
earnest harness
no it wouldn't
wooden wedge
no it woulnd't
earnest harness
providence moves
wooden wedge
provi is fat
fucking just
fight her with both weapons and tell us which is better
zealous ridge
second of all, defense and dr massively affect how much damage each hit will do
brittle nexus
also killtimes should always be without using adren or rage
earnest harness
prov for example also has reduced damage/invuln phases so your test would be more based on average kill time rather than raw dps
wooden wedge
I could test right now actually
zealous ridge
and, trust me, kill times aren't the catch all answer to whether or not a weapon is good
but it's a good baseline
brittle nexus
and high use-time weapons (like utensil poker) handicap you too by not letting you switch your item for a loong time
zealous ridge
and the important part is that it gets devs considering a deeper examination
void kelp
eledisk works real well vs provi last I checked since it splits and hits her hitbox many times
wooden wedge
I'm gonna test now
no gear no modifiers no nothing
just raw kill
I died with godmode on br
ok so it took around a minute for 5%
ok this won't work with no gear jaja
tired haven
Given that the gear quadruples/quintuples dps at that tier, seems legit
(even more so for armored targets)
zenith hazel
isn't disk designed around using scythe trains to be effective?
dapper coral
should be
zenith hazel
judging from the video, that's not really a good way to judge ele disk tbh, considering the guy's testing it on a dummy
testing it on something like provi would yield more significant results since she is a fat target
raven shell
gets 100x damage mod
wooden wedge
also this is the rest of the things
all best modifiers
so unreal for the weps and menacing
raven shell
wait, expert or normal
wooden wedge
expert
raven shell
can i have the demon heart slot for wings
wooden wedge
oh I fucking
forgot the demon heart and onion
oh well
also why'd you need wings
just use a brimrose and sit still
and just use the 5 acc slots
raven shell
idk brimrose is post prov
tired haven
Sitting still is not a valid thing either during bossfight tbh
wooden wedge
brimrose doesn't matter
also killtime testing shouldn't matter if you sit still since god mode
byeah other people do kill time tests for this because this was also flawed
raven shell
utensil's time was 3:40
ok, im not doing elemental disks full time because its 2:36 minutes and only 51%
ill just test teh dps of both weapons while fighting teh bosses
that should be a accurate measure
Utensil poker is consistently getting 4.5k dps and above while providence is flying normally and when i charge a stealth strike the dps skyrockets to upwards of 25k dps
elemental disk consistently gets 3k dps. Its dps doesnt really change on stealth strikes. When I try training a bunch of them behind me it deals ~4k dps
They are close but utensil poker is better. It has more range, more accurate, less laggy, and has a op stealth strike
If you ask me, elemental disks extra disks should home in on bosses and disappear after hitting 3 times.
indigo fog
Add a Don't about suggesting a weapon buff/nerf with only DPS tests on a dummy as proof
Reason: It's much more reliable to show killtimes and DPS on bosses when proving a weapon needs a buff or nerf. Testing weapons for the purpose of balancing is usually done with standard on-tier equipment without Rage or Adrenaline, looking at killtimes mainly. Along with this, some weapons like Submarine Shocker will do massive DPS on dummies because it's made for stationary targets, or risk and reward close range weapons like Stellar Striker will do more DPS than other weapons at its tier. Weapons that are more reliable to hit like homing weapons are expected to do less DPS than close range weapons. Dummies don't operate under realistic circumstances and testers don't balance around them because testing weapons on bosses is much more reliable when it comes to balancing things.
indigo fog
is this fine for me to suggest
raven shell
the dps gap was much smaller when i fought the actual boss
earnest harness
isn't that already a don't
indigo fog
I didn't see it in the Don'ts, let me check it again
earnest harness
i swear i remember seeing something like that
raven shell
the only boss you can fight with it is providence
after that it gets replaced almost instantly
indigo fog
It's not in the Don'ts, I just checked
void kelp
but note when you get it, as well
raven shell
alpha virus replaces elemental disc effectively
indigo fog
Also doesn't Elemental Disk destroy Ceaseless Void
indigo fog
So is my suggestion fine to post?
raven shell
wiat nvm i read that sentence wrong
zenith hazel
I'll look into both of these myself
raven shell
IK i cant make specific suggestions to weapons on the posting
but, elemental disks extra disks should be modified, its shoot speed should be increased and/or its damage should be ramped up
tired haven
You can also fight sw and birb with the disk
Although well, to be exactly fair I wasn't impressed with that wep back then either
raven shell
birb...? you DARE defy
tired haven
i call it birb till the name is set in adamantite, so many want to change it again
raven shell
if its set in adamantite just get a mythril pickaxe
raven shell
Is the enchanted boomerang craftable
indigo fog
no
raven shell
yea. you need it for elemental disk and when you sell it for one gold then your **screwed
void kelp
it probably could use a recipe if it’s used in calamity weapons
zealous ridge
bruh
izzy really be out here suggesting a totalitarian regeime
or fuckin
however you spell it lmao
personally not a fan
void kelp
Honestly I like it since we already ask for it,, it’s just been implied + an additional request
like whenever people do give suggestions on weapon balancing, the first thing we ask for is some form of test
I’d say a don’t could just be “asking for item reworks without valid evidence”
zealous ridge
mm yeah
zenith hazel
at the end of the day, I'd rather test stuff by myself because usually, people don't know how to test weps
zealous ridge
my problem with it is that they don't just say "valid evidence"
void kelp
ye the suggestion puts it into the dev’s view so they can check it themselves
earnest harness
it would at least mildly raise the bar for people wanting to get suggestions put in in the first place, provided they actually check the document they wouldn't bother with a target dummy test in the first place and give us something a bit more substantial to work on
void kelp
you don’t need to spoiler the crafting tree, beast
raven shell
i felt like it wasnt necessary but it was at the same time
zealous ridge
its like
i feel it isnt productive, really, to just say you can't supply dummy tests as proof
zenith hazel
if people are aware of stuff being broken then that's excellent, but usually this isn't the case
zealous ridge
because that was already the case
zenith hazel
like the guy who made the triploon nerf sugg
zealous ridge
we don't need it written down
void kelp
I’d probably simplify the suggestion since it doesn’t really get to the reason very quickly so it comes off as very roundabout
zealous ridge
in the don'ts doc
earnest harness
i mean target dummy proofs aren't productive in the first place either
void kelp
I mean, if it skips the step of people testing on dummies then being told it’s not accurate
zealous ridge
really, i dont know if it would do that
earnest harness
it would if they checked the document
void kelp
and shows who doesn’t read
earnest harness
and pushing more people to check the document before spewing their very good ideas into the suggestions channel is always good
crude geode
^^^^
zealous ridge
all it does is push the "problem" to a "check pins" thing
people are going to make suggestions regardless of the doc
void kelp
ofc, but for the few that do look at it, it’ll help
earnest harness
"check pins" is a bit more efficient than an 15+ minute long conversation about why target dummy tests are bad for the umpteenth time
zenith hazel
there will be a problem regardless due to people being people
zealous ridge
mhm
zenith hazel
no system is perfect, but there's still a temporary solution
zealous ridge
which is to put even heavier restrictions on an already restrictive suggestion guideline document
earnest harness
the suggestions would already be restricted anyway because of this exact conversation
it just takes longer to get to the point
which is "target dummy tests are bad don't do them"
raven shell
target dummies should have a damage reduction and a defense modifier item
crude geode
By your logic, Chozo, the entire don’ts doc shouldn’t exist Bc people will make suggestions regardless of the fact that there’s a doc telling them not to suggest said things.
zealous ridge
well, yes
that is what i think
but lord knows i wont get that anytime soon
i just see it as a non-nessecity
and, furthermore, i don't think the suggestions system is terrible either
i don't like it personally, but it gets the job done for a server as big as this
earnest harness
having people come in here spewing their awful suggestions and then going "wtf why get deleted???" or having repetitive conversations about why their suggestion is awful
vs
having people come in here, some of which reading the document and not spewing their awful suggestions, and the rest spewing their awful suggestions and getting told to check the pins and go away instead of getting into lengthy arguments
zealous ridge
okay
earnest harness
and yeah, when the server is this big, and the mod is this popular, you need to have a system that filters out a bunch of the initial dumbassery, otherwise it's going to need levels of moderation that aren't feasible
zealous ridge
i don't see it being effective
that's my stance, at least
to constrict the guidelines in such a manner
and, tbh
it's likely just how i prefer it
lmao
that's honestly what it comes down to
i just dont like the idea of more rules to follow
and that's just me
crude geode
That’s fine to have that opinion.
zealous ridge
yes
i don't want to come off as standoffish, is really the point, though
if ya wanna vote for it and have another rule in place to stop dumb suggestions, then i will not shoot you down
earnest harness
i mean its something that comes from the top, devs won't do certain suggestions so there's no point in having them suggested, and the suggestion moderators know the devs won't do certain suggestions so there's no point in spending more time to moderate them, so they make a document they update occasionally so that at least some people will realize there's no point in suggesting certain things and those things tend to not get suggested
raven shell
the document is better than nothing
zealous ridge
that's just something that comes with having a suggestions chat at all
and sure it's better than nothing i guess
but there are more hands off approaches that get the job done too, i feel
its just that calamity is so damn big that these guidelines come about
raven shell
its like having rules in a school, there will be bad apples that refuse to follow them and some that are clueless of them. If there are no rules then there are no bad apples or clueless people, the system is the one to point the blame
crude geode
This convo is going nowhere fast.
earnest harness
honestly its a little unfortunate that the posting channel eventually deletes all suggestions that don't get approved, would be a nice way to physically see examples of suggestions that don't get approved
crude geode
Ehhhhh
It would also detract from Rover’s main message that you see if you scroll up for half a second.
dapper coral
i think its alright as long as you're not an asshole and don't change your suggestion when people ask you to
bc 24 hours should be quite a lot of time to fix a sug
unkempt bolt
boys how do y'all feel about prohibiting asking what the best class is
zealous ridge
wat
unkempt bolt
it happens minimum once a day in calam talk and it never goes anywhere
crude geode
Ehhh?
karmic stone
Why
karmic stone
never goes anywhere
m
zealous ridge
cal talk is a talking chat
karmic stone
Except for when it does
unkempt bolt
but there isn't a best class
zealous ridge
no need for guidelines there
raven shell
the best class is thrower
karmic stone
Yea
unkempt bolt
and certain people will ask the same question for multiple weeks
raven shell
not rogue, thrower
earnest harness
lol do you think that people who barge into the general chats and ask people to think for them would read pins that say to not ask about that kind of stuff anyway
unkempt bolt
if that stopped them i wouldnt be asking lul
it's just annoying when the chat is derailed by everyone saying their favorite class is the best
raven shell
favorite class is one of those opinions that goes nowhere at all
crude geode
This idea is so restrictive and poorly timed Quanta. Calamity talk is to talk about calamity. If people are talking about which class is the best, then...that’s still talking.
earnest harness
🤷♂️ consequence of having a massive public server, people will talk about shit that you may find dreadfully stupid
raven shell
I think it should be ok as long as there isnt any heated arguments
unkempt bolt
the point isn't to restrict anyone
but often people will just repeat the same things over and over
zealous ridge
well that's what id think it would do
lost agate
If theres heated arguments then you should get a mod
zealous ridge
^
crude geode
^
earnest harness
really the only solution to that kind of thing leads to runaway server/channel bloat
karmic stone
If everything that could result in a heated argument was just restricted at the start via rules it would be
lol.
unkempt bolt
without mentioning anyone, there's people that will ask for actual weeks what class is best
instead of just playing the game
lost agate
Sometimes convos get heated here for no reason so..
zealous ridge
lost agate
Then let them know its getting annoying
dapper coral
thats their problem honestly, if they cant figure themselves out then... whatever
earnest harness
who knows, maybe more people agree with you than you think and calling them a dumby and to stop asking people to think for them is the right direction
lost agate
Calling people stupid isnt gonna help much
unkempt bolt
maybe my idea came off in a different way than i intended
prohibiting certain questions is a silly idea
but like
lost agate
It would feel unfair
unkempt bolt
some way to minimize the amount of repetitive convos that lead nowhere
earnest harness
i mean you can word it however you want as long as the idea of "there's no point in asking this please stop" gets across
lost agate
Like imagine
New guy gets into the server, wants to talk
"Sorry your topic was prohibited :/"
zealous ridge
which is why i don't think it would be worth it
unkempt bolt
was just asking for opinions, not trying to say i think it's a great idea
lost agate
Best solution is just telling whichever person that keeps asking that to cut it
terse sundial
indeed
terse sundial
better to be direct and sincere instead of lashing out
now with that out of the way, this convo should resume to be about suggestions
lost agate
Aight
dapper coral
aight, so i remember a sugg being made about buffing spectre rifle but it got denied bc there were no timed kills or actual evidence or anything like that
crude geode
@raven shell Mb fix the formatting of your suggestion? The topic line isn't by itself.
dapper coral
if i do the times and stuff can I put it? or is there some sort of cooldown on when someone can resugg something that someone else did
i believe the cooldown on your own sugg is 1 week but idk about resugging someone elses
earnest harness
it was 5 days ago and the suggestion itself was pretty barebones but idk
crude geode
I think the week cooldown still applies, based on the wording in the rules posed in the voting pins
even if it's someone else's suggestion
dapper coral
ok fair enough
crude geode
Yeah.
dapper coral
well i guess ill just get the data ready then resugg it over the weekend or something
raven shell
fixed
dapper coral
so ill prob test it on plaguebringer, then i should do spectre rifle (oviously) but what other weapons should i use to compare it with
i was thinking aeries since thats what i used to beat plaguebringer
but the weapon types may be too different
crude geode
Look at the class setups page, prolly
digital saddle
"scorn eaters" I thought they were called Omega Metroids
dapper coral
fair enough
crude geode
Also, I would actually test it against golem. Considering it's pre-golem.
And it gives you a better measure of weaponry to test it against.
digital saddle
Also elemental disk is a very good weapon
It's just not good for single target
But even just 2 targets is enough to deal absurd dps
dapper coral
awesome, then ill do that. i think i used titanium up until plaguebringer so i dont actually remember shroomite's requirements lol
sinful steeple
I think skyline is post-Skeletron since it's essentially an upgraded lucky horseshoe
digital saddle
You can get horseshoe effect via a potion or aerospec armor
raven shell
I think bones should stay since wings can make skeletron irrelevant
indigo fog
A boss rush with normal bosses would just be melting every boss in under a minute except for scal
that doesn't sound fun and doesn't seem worth the time to implement
raven shell
yea
You can easily summon them manually
you cant really buff bosses without config files or coding tho
wooden wedge
you can just summon bosses manually
like organizing your inventory for something like a pseudo boss rush
raven shell
jk
crystal locust
I guess yeah, just spitballing
wooden wedge
maybe don't just spitball your suggs but actually think them through
quick ice
Why would Blood Worms be in the Abyss Floor?
unkempt bolt
it's good practice to post suggs here before officially posting, to get feedback on them
raven shell
its kinda enticing for rogues to go to the abyss for teh valediction but other than that I kinda agree. At that point, you usually have weapons that shoot things everywhere which makes it easy to kill critters
scarlet torrent
Bloodworms fallen from the corpses of the Dukes Victims tumble down into the great abyss
quick ice
They spawn in the Sulphurous Sea during an acid rain and are very much not aquatic critters, so wouldn’t it be more fitting for them to spawn in the Sulphurous Sea
Also Abyss already has minibosses post Polter, giving Blood Worms to Abyss is unnecessary since it has those
scarlet torrent
Yes, but the only miniboss in Abyss currently worth fighting is Reaper Sharks
Bloodworms add a much needed additional element, to a very interesting, but currently empty biome
unkempt bolt
if the issue is that tier 3 acid rain is too dangerous to collect bloodworms, i dont see how putting them in the most dangerous area in the game is a solution
zenith hazel
there's 2 minibosses in abyss layer 4 alongside other enemies, yes definitely more peaceful
raven shell
by peaceful i mean there are less things to spawn
zenith hazel
doesn't make it any less chaotic
raven shell
There arent 400 things swarming you causing you to fire everywhere and be blind to the worms
scarlet torrent
All enemies on the Abyss floor need to be attacked to provoke aggression
raven shell
or you go closer
scarlet torrent
The Abyss floor is a really cool biome, and nearly all players go down there as soon as they are able, because it's a really cool biome
There's little progression that actually takes place, it simply serves as a distraction to the player
unkempt bolt
im not sure about most people, but it's very rare that i go to the fourth layer of the abyss
scarlet torrent
So let's fix that
unkempt bolt
well no im saying that there's a reason i don't lol
because the fourth layer of the abyss hurts
nothing like catching some worms while a colossal squid latches onto your head
raven shell
The siren heart should make the abyss enemies neutral until you deal 1000 damage to them post polter ghasyt
wooden wedge
any reason as to why any of this
sinful steeple
What about the post-Polt weapons that are really good
I mean I agree that bloodworms shouldn't be found only in acid rain- it's too chaotic there
But there's definitely reasons to go to the abyss
unkempt bolt
i believe he was referring specifically to layer 4 of the abyss
the minibosses can be fought in layer 3
but granted it is quite a bit easier to fight them in layer 4 because l3 is very cramped
olive token
i never use luck horse shoe in ez mode. i just use a calcium potion every boss fight for the extra slot
wooden wedge
With a proper arena you won't have to worry about any of that
vague laurel
I dont get why we need crafting recipes for every item that comes out of a chest naturally
Are people just that lazy?
enchanted boomerang is one of the most common gold chest drops
Its like if you dont come across the item while exploring ONCE, it needs a crafting recipe because im too lazy to spend some time actually getting the item the way its meant to be obtained
vague laurel
and thats part of the game
infact, almost every powerful item is obtained that way
in calamity
sinful steeple
I didn't get an enchanted boomerang until after an hour of searching and that was post-Provi
Being unlucky is part of the game?
sinful steeple
Bruh
vague laurel
I wonder how much pain everyone will be in when they have to go back to regular terraria to play 1.4,being FORCED to use CHESTS FOR STORAGE and get all items the intended way
sinful steeple
Why so salty dude
Anyway many people still use chests
Sure most people use magic storage but it's not like they can't live without it
vague laurel
You'd be surprised
earnest harness
tbh if you want to craft stuff that's hard to get just install imskushi's or one of the squintillion mods that give recipes for that, kinda weird that so many people think calamity should be a be-all-end-all supermod that lets you do everything that every other mod can do at once
sinful steeple
Maybe they just don't want to use imksushi's?
vague laurel
fargo's mutant mod also adds recipes for everything
earnest harness
then get another one of the squintillion mods for it
sinful steeple
What if they just want to use Calamity
earnest harness
that's too bad
vague laurel
then they are shit out of luck
vague laurel
Other mods exist to fill in holes the normal game is missing in their opinion
earnest harness
what's the difference between downloading calamity with the functionality of imskusi's and downloading both calamity and imskushi
vague laurel
Just because calamity is one of the most popular mods doesnt mean it needs every feature and mod into one
sinful steeple
Well what if there's content in imksushi that the person doesn't want
sinful steeple
Yes that's my point
earnest harness
or, for the third time, download a different mod that does it
imskushi's is not the only and may not even be the best solution for that
vague laurel
Just because you can ignore a certain feature doesnt mean that it 100% needs to be added into the game
sinful steeple
And a lot of items are relevant for Calamity but are annoying to get
sinful steeple
Maybe I'm weird but I don't like having to install other mods to fill the gaps
sinful steeple
That's just cheating bruh
vague laurel
thats your opinion
sinful steeple
... It's literally got cheat in the name
vague laurel
its only the name of the mod
earnest harness
that's literally the point of mods though? calamity isn't a modpack, it shouldn't aim to both add all of the content it adds AND fill in all of the gaps that vanilla has between it
sinful steeple
I mean fill the gaps of Calamity itself
earnest harness
crafting vanilla accessories isn't a gap in calamity though?
sinful steeple
No
But there are annoying items to get that are relevant in Calamity but aren't craftable despite similar items being craftable
vague laurel
There is a difference between an item in calamity having an error/issue and vanilla having a feature you dont like
sinful steeple
Like how the enchanted sword is craftable yet the enchanted boomerang isn't which is just an example
vague laurel
they only look the same
completely different ways to obtain them
and different weapons
sinful steeple
And have nearly the same name, similar behaviours and are gotten the same way
earnest harness
dude what
vague laurel
Plus your world isnt guarenteed to have an enchanted sword shrine
enchanted boomerangs exist in every world
you just need to find it
and trust me, if EVERY GOLD CHEST in your world doesnt contain the 1/8 chance (1/9 for caverns) chance of it having an enchanted boomerang, go buy a lottery ticket because that is nearly impossible
earnest harness
also don't you need like 3 enchanted swords to craft all the calamity stuff vs the 1 boomerang for a flamarang for the other stuff
sinful steeple
Yeah and maybe I'm just cursed but when I have to spend an hour every time I want the enchanted boomerang it gets a little irritating
vague laurel
also enchanted sword only makes one item lol
then thats YOUR PROBLEM
not the mod's problem that you play too much and get bored of simple tasks
earnest harness
🤷♂️ install one of the 10 mods that adds a crafting recipe for it if it's that horrible, adding even more qol recipe bloat isn't the solution
sinful steeple
It's my fault I play rogue?
vague laurel
you play too much and get bored of simple tasks
nothing about whatever class you use 
earnest harness
doesn't arkhalis make one or 2 items? and you can craft those from enchanted swords?
vague laurel
oh yeah I didnt see the arkhalis recipe
sinful steeple
I'm sorry that I don't want to waste my time blindly stumbling around hoping to run into a gold chest with an enchanted boomerang in it
vague laurel
well technically you need 5 enchanted swords lol
two arkhalises
for ark of ancients and devil's sunrise
wait no its both lol
either/or for ark of ancients whatever recipe browser tricked me
lost agate
The boomerang is in no way obtained the same way and behaves way differently
sinful steeple
You get it by running into it
lost agate
Theyre only both enchanted
vague laurel
"You get it by running into it"
sinful steeple
And they're both decent projectile shooters of the melee class
vague laurel
sinful steeple
Same tier
vague laurel
thats how you get literally every item in the game
lost agate
How do you compare a random chest to a one shrine out of like 3 with chance of giving jackshit
sinful steeple
Including wood? Gel? The damn Guide
lost agate
Wha
vague laurel
sinful steeple
He may not be an item but he's about as useful as fishing trash
lost agate
Uh
vague laurel
what?
lost agate
Wasnt this about a boomerang
vague laurel
shh if you confuse everyone then you win the "arguement"
sinful steeple
Lol what
I was saying you don't get every item by just running into it at random chance
And called the Guide an item because he's basically one
As a joke
lost agate
Huh
crude geode
Okay, but anyways.
lost agate
Do you even need the enchanted boomerang for any item
vague laurel
a singular rogue weapon
crude geode
The reason I think that enchanted boomerang recipe is valid is because it helps to fit with consistency in the mod. Other similar weapons needed to craft end-tier weapons that have a chance of not being found can be crafted, so it makes sense for the enchanted boomerang to be craftable.
deep tartan
does anyone wanna do a revengeance mode playthrough?
vague laurel
The only items with recipes should be rare items like lava charm and water walking boots
sinful steeple
Wrong chat
crude geode
wrong channel pinaqple
vague laurel
lost agate
lost agate
Wew
deep tartan
oh sorry
earnest harness
yeah that's the issue i was thinking, the precedent for crafting vanilla items like that is already there, which means people are going to want more of it
sinful steeple
All good
earnest harness
which of course leads to the problem of bloating/doing too much as a singular mod
lost agate
If the boomerang is actually used on smth important then the reason is there
sinful steeple
I mean Calamity is a major mod
Other major mods fix problems
Like for example Antibirth from TBOIR patched up sprites and fixed bugs
lost agate
I mean, its more of a problem they brought upon themselves
By making most things at endgame a weapon dump
earnest harness
i don't recall very many other content mods specifically trying to tie up vanilla recipes but i could be wrong, and other games aren't exactly relevant because antibirth was designed to be a major content/overhaul mod
deep tartan
lets be honest, whats the best secondary mod to have
vague laurel
fargos soul mod 🙂
deep tartan
...
crude geode
Try to look at channel descriptions before sending messages in them, so you don't bring convos off topic.
sinful steeple
Yeah
vague laurel
Major content mod doesnt mean it should be every mod into one
ashen warren
^
sinful steeple
Didn't say it should
ashen warren
calamity is a content mod, it should seek to change only what needs to be changed in order for the gameplay loop to work
sinful steeple
I just said that major content mods do fix stuff as well as add content
sinful steeple
Which tbh is kinda hard to do with Terraria but Calamity tries
earnest harness
just because other mods do things doesn't mean all mods need to follow suit
ashen warren
that is something I have noticed, shucks
lost agate
And i dont mean QoL
sand umbra
oh boy !
another QoL change discussion !
hello friends 
earnest harness
yup
ashen warren
EEman has arrived
sand umbra
I am here to impart my knowledge of QoL funnies upon thee
and express that Calamity perhaps has too much of it
vague laurel
I do not like this feature of vanilla terraria so please change it now please
lost agate
E
sinful steeple
Yeah doing that'll get you nowhere just saying
vague laurel
earnest harness
just because you're not willing to budge doesn't mean this won't be interesting for the rest of us
ashen warren
"shut up because your opinion means nothing anyway"
sand umbra
I feel like this goes back to the conversation I had with a few other people in here about soul fish and the overarching perhaps overprevalance of QoL in Calamity recently and I don't know how to feel about that
vague laurel
sinful steeple
I was saying that mocking the sugg won't get you anywhere
lost agate
I mean, you kinda went haywire about fishes so eh
sinful steeple
Also the sugg that sparked this discussion was specifically about ench boomerang which is kinda a problem Calamity made because the weapon is completely irrelevant in vanilla
sand umbra
I mean yeah
earnest harness
it makes the flamarang so that's something 🤷♂️
sand umbra
I get heated
about things
I should not get so heated about suggestions for a mod that ain't even mine but w/e
ashen warren
flamarang is a garbage item
vague laurel
@sinful steeple its just not relevant to you in vanilla, plenty of people use flamarang
sand umbra
so, let me make this abundantly clear
sinful steeple
It's only really a problem because endgame weapons cost an arm, a leg, the Guide's severed head and your first born child
lost agate
Getting heated over ideas on a chats seems unnecesary to me
crude geode
^
sinful steeple
Ehh I mean it's hard to not get heated sometimes
sand umbra
a large number of Calamity "QoL" recipes exist for the express purpose of making something late-game craftable
ashen warren
getting heated is inevitable in a chat like this
lost agate
Eh
ashen warren
this entire channel section is like "little politics"
lost agate
Its not really inevitable
sinful steeple
I'm kinda easily irritable so I see why people get heated because I am one of those people
lost agate
We have avoided it in a lot of suggs
ashen warren
i wasn't implying it would be an every suggestion thing
lost agate
Sure people can disagree but theres no reason to go "your ideas personally offend me and you should be ashamed"
crude geode
^^^^^
ashen warren
offending someone is as easy as refuting a point they made
I'd argue you're being unrealistic in how humans function
sinful steeple
Maybe it's just for me but I get bent outta shape over kinda unrelated things from the original thing
unkempt bolt
once people start taking criticism of their idea as criticism of them, things get heated
ashen warren
taking a refuted point as an actual physical attack is a thing
sinful steeple
And feel too overly passionate about shit- to the point of fighting with a greatsword for what I believe
lost agate
Getting heated is what sparked the fourth pin
sinful steeple
Which is admittedly stupid
lost agate
Yeah fifth
ashen warren
basically, suggestions bear similarity to voting ideas into political consideration, and we know how contentious politics gets
it being about a mere mod for a videogame is besides the point
people care, so they do things
being cold, objective, and logical, hasn't worked before
why should it work now?
lost agate
Wha
sinful steeple
People are like ants with cordyceps- one moment they're doing nothing and the next fungus is bursting outta their chest cavity
unkempt bolt
we might be getting a little too close to philosophy and a little too far from boomerangs
lost agate
So being agressive worked wonders so far?
sinful steeple
Yeah actually
lost agate
Also yeah perhaps
ashen warren
no of course not
aggressive nature in suggestions doesn't get you considered favourably either
sinful steeple
Maybe we should talk about Australian zoom sticks and not the channel
vague laurel
????????
rapid pivot
what are we talking about
unkempt bolt
i was referring more to the suggestion about boomerangs
earnest harness
qol changes stinky
vague laurel
@rapid pivot thaumcraft pfp?
rapid pivot
yes
unkempt bolt
auram gang
vague laurel
Pog
ashen warren
boomerangs are australian
unkempt bolt
this man never needed motus smh
rapid pivot
doors
sinful steeple
Thaumcraft? Wasn't that the mod that stole sprites from Calamity
unkempt bolt
so much herba tho
ashen warren
my argument is simply that it's pointless to go on about how "people shouldn't get so offended all the time" when it has happened and will happen
vague laurel
@sinful steeple no
ashen warren
as for boomer sticks
lost agate
Yes ik people get offended
vague laurel
thaumcraft is a minecraft mod
sinful steeple
Yeah I know
sand umbra
🛫
hollow shell
I seem to have returned at a bad time
crude geode
Yes you have Rover.
sand umbra
hi Rover
sinful steeple
Maybe
ashen warren
adding a recipe for an item to be crafted is perfectly valid in my opinion, but considering how the main method of acquiring the item is meant to be random, it should cost more than average
sand umbra
welcome to
whatever this is
lost agate
But its not fun to read here when theres people throwing shit at each other until one or both just leave out of pure rancidness
sinful steeple
Yeah
crude geode
We've got aggression, philosophy, all because of boomer sticks.
lost agate
But yeah beyond the point now
earnest harness
rover can we remove all the recipes for vanilla items
vague laurel
unkempt bolt
vanilla items no longer have recipes
vague laurel
Pog
unkempt bolt
even the recipes already in the game are removed
sinful steeple
Recipes were removed
hollow shell
The suggestions by @paper torrent and @noble sentinel shouldn't exist anymore
but they're lucky now that they have extra time to edit their suggs before they get autoyeeted
sinful steeple
Crafting table is useless now
earnest harness
all items are added to fishing crates with varying chances and progression tiers
lost agate
(also imo calam should really make a lot more things configurable)
sinful steeple
Farming Simulator 2020
sand umbra
I was going to give this my own two cents with a bit more detail and examples but
ashen warren
the issue with culling vanilla item recipes is how much rng is involved in their existence usually
sand umbra
I am currently led to believe this is a bad time to do so
earnest harness
yeah thomas i was hoping for an essay on qol changes
sand umbra
as such I'm going to go do that Obsidian Rose rework I told myself I'd do half a week ago and be right back
unkempt bolt
while i think that adding a recipe for enchanted boomerang is good because being endgame and having to go search underground chests for an item is annoying
lost agate
I mean, afaik the boomerang isnt that rare
unkempt bolt
kinda raises the question of when to stop adding thing to remove annoyance
earnest harness
that's what i was getting at, at what point do you stop being a content mod and start being a full overhaul?
unkempt bolt
the terraria wiki says it "is found rarely"
vague laurel
didnt pick up a boomerang early game
annoyed because you dont have a boomerang when you need it
ashen warren
calamity is an overhaul
vague laurel
pre hardmode should be removed
earnest harness
terraria overhaul is an overhaul
vague laurel
too much of a grind
ashen warren
the gameplay loop of calamity is completely different to vanilla
sinful steeple
It may not be Terraria Overhaul but it's still an overhaul
earnest harness
hhhhhhow exactly?
unkempt bolt
it's more just that it's such a useless item that you dont need it until pretty late
sinful steeple
Because of the sheer amount of content it adds
ashen warren
in vanilla it's a very low and slow thing
lost agate
If a player can go through early pre hm without more than 10 minutes of exploration (without counting time used to get ores), you added too many recipes
Thats my take
sinful steeple
But ores are things you explore for 
vague laurel
yeah and thats how it is right now
ashen warren
you get a drip feed of items and then once you're confident enough you beat up a boss
in calamity you get all the items you want ASAP and the blitz through like 5 bosses and then repeat
ashen warren
it's sprinting gameplay with pauses compared to a marathon
sinful steeple
Maybe it's my hoarder instincts but I feel I'm not good enough unless I have 700 ore
unkempt bolt
after skeletron, not much exploration is that needed really
lost agate
Unless youre mining demonite for whatever reason
sinful steeple
At the least
ashen warren
everything is streamlined and smoothed to make the game go fast
vague laurel
every jungle chest item except the useless ones are craftable, you can just kill a few hornets and watch a few spores grow and be done with the jungle until golem
unkempt bolt
people don't fight plantera
sinful steeple
But Plantera
ashen warren
as such it radically changes how the game works, that is an overhaul
vague laurel
yeah plantera is skippable easy
ashen warren
plantera in vanilla isn't skippable, in calamity go ahead
unkempt bolt
you still lose access to the HM dungeon, which many classes like drops from
ashen warren
you won't have ecto so probably kill her later, but you can skip for the moment if you're feeling impatient
ashen warren
you don't have to make an arena for 2+ hours
instead you skip her, get golem+ gear, then shred surface plantera
unkempt bolt
i'd hope planterarenas dont take over 2 hours
crude geode
^
sinful steeple
I spent like a minute or three on mine
ashen warren
a minute
crude geode
I have never spent more than an hour on a plant arena.
ashen warren
are you using luiafk?
sinful steeple
I'm lazy okay
earnest harness
dynamite goes wheee
sinful steeple
No
unkempt bolt
on the subject of the skyline wings sugg
sinful steeple
Veinminer even though it's not very helpful in the jungle
unkempt bolt
i do think skyline wings need some sort of change
ashen warren
veinminer is a meme
unkempt bolt
to make them worth using whatsoever
the only real advantage they have over BoB is being easier to craft
vague laurel
wings are the staple of hardmode since 1.1 was released, and skyline should stay at the very end of prehm like it is right now
ashen warren
manually caving out a plantera arena that is of sufficient size takes a lot of time
lost agate
Anyway, imo at this point the convo of the boomerang is kind of on a gray point (that and its approved so no edits) so probably its the best to just let it be, see what happens to it
unkempt bolt
but BoB is available pre-boss
ashen warren
skeletron isn't made easy by shit wings
unkempt bolt
and as i said, is much better
sinful steeple
I feel like skyline wings should be post Skele because it's upgraded lucky horseshoe
It's shit but still
ashen warren
skyline is garbage until you get statigel
unkempt bolt
it
ashen warren
jumps > wings in pre-hm
unkempt bolt
it's weird to have an item that's basically the poor man's BoB
vague laurel
my movement is better with wings than double jumps so I like them better
ashen warren
you lose speed and maneuverability for fall damage immunity
or you could, y'know, drink a calcium potion
sinful steeple
Anyway you have spectre boots/upgrades for that
unkempt bolt
wings aren't that important for slime god, and statigel or BoB is more than enough for WoF
ashen warren
as I recall it's just ancient bone dust
unkempt bolt
skyline wings are just kinda pointless
lost agate
Why is calcium potion
sinful steeple
Calcium memes
ashen warren
it's the fall damage pot
sinful steeple
Actually it's not the fall damage pot
lost agate
Yeah but like why is it a thing
vague laurel
@unkempt bolt in your opinion of course, wings are amazing IMO
sinful steeple
A fall damage pot sounds painful
ashen warren
that's a good point but /shrug
crude geode
Calcium prevents constant use of horseshoe/skyline for newbs
sinful steeple
Okay but like BoB is just better
unkempt bolt
i mean it isn't really my opinion to say that BoB provides more speed and airtime
sinful steeple
Better vertical and horizontal movement
unkempt bolt
only advantage wings have is that the movement is smoother i guess
vague laurel
you said skyline wings are pointless, but thats your opinion since everyone likes to use different accessories
ashen warren
skyline wings specifically
sinful steeple
Yeah tbh
ashen warren
not stuff like frost
lost agate
But it just causes the syndrome of "why do i need x accesory when a potion does the effect i want"
sinful steeple
Just use spectre+ to invalidate fall damage
sand umbra
like
sinful steeple
You're using it anyway so why waste a buff slot
unkempt bolt
okay but im explaining with facts why skyline wings are not worth using over BoB from an objective sense
sand umbra
literally just go underground and kill like 10 Skeletons
vague laurel
Just dont fall
sand umbra
then get some bottled water
unkempt bolt
if you just like skyline wings, not much anyone can say about that
sand umbra
kablammo, you've just invalidated a Floating Island item that gets no augments to justify getting it over something else
lost agate
Skyline wings are wings made to go as high as a horseshoe balloon
ashen warren
skyline should have no bones 100%
ashen warren
it's not good enough to warrant being post skeletron
sand umbra
Skyline should also actually try to fit Aerialite set palette but w/e
vague laurel
nice @sinful steeple
crude geode
We're talking about the current sugg.
sinful steeple
Should be because it's post Skele
crude geode
Which is moving skyline wings back.
sinful steeple
And just worse than bundle
crude geode
Not about skyline wings Mac.
unkempt bolt
skyline realistically should be better than a pre-boss acc
even if they're pre-skele, they're still worse
lost agate
If you ask me, the problem with skyline is that both of the advantages just kinda dont work
crude geode
Same Shuccccks.
ashen warren
a fr buff would be making skyline wings have real good horizontal speed
sinful steeple
I'm saying rather than being moved back it should be buffed, makes more sense
lost agate
- sure you can control flight better, but who needs that when no boss has any real tight patterns
- Calcium
ashen warren
so you can go fast side to side in a way bundle can't
except for sandstorm jump but w/e
sand umbra
WoF doesn't have a pattern to begin with
unkempt bolt
wof has a pattern if there's no blocks in the way
sand umbra
no, having a cooldown on lasers that just gets faster as the fight progresses and occasionally spawning funny meat shield enemies is not a pattern
sinful steeple
Tbh sandstorm jump is only at the start
unkempt bolt
damn
ashen warren
big brain time
lost agate
But what i mean is that all the attacks dont really need slow kitting
sinful steeple
No
lost agate
Just blasting upwards works
vague laurel
personally, I dont like spamming space bar to move around so I prefer wings
sand umbra
WoF's attacks don't really have a rhythm at all because the whole thing changes every 10% HP for no reason at all
sinful steeple
That's fair tbh
sand umbra
the attacks aren't coordinated enough to quality as a pattern either
they just sorta happen whenever
lost agate
Theres a timer
sinful steeple
Yeah no tells either
sand umbra
well yes, but that's really as far as it goes
lost agate
Thats the closest to a pattern you get
sand umbra
sinful steeple
Just blasts you with lasers whenever and spits hungries and leeches
Not really a pattern
lost agate
Anyway, i think imma put up smth and go sleep
sand umbra
this really just boils down to WoF not being a great boss on a fundamental level and Underworld gen being objectively shit for bossing
e
crude geode
Are you talking about WoF or DoG Thomas
sinful steeple
Yes
ashen warren
meanwhile slime god explicitly likes good vertical burst movement because mines
sand umbra
I'm talking about WoF
I have a wealth of similarly annoying, but completely separate, issues with DoG
and that's a topic for a time and place where mentioning it won't get me killed
vague laurel
lining all mesages
sand umbra
unkempt bolt
are you saying something or not saying it
sand umbra
anywho
earnest harness
it's like a budget spoiler tag but we have a spoiler tag already
vague laurel
Skyline Wings:
make them just post-Hive Mind/Perfs
or murder them from Aerialite template on wikiiiiiiiiiiiiii
earnest harness
they already are? require aerilite right?
vague laurel
an item's progression stage shouldnt be changed because a different item is better in your opinion
unkempt bolt
they require bones
sand umbra
they also require bones
unkempt bolt
which are from the dungeon
sand umbra
this is inconsistent with everything else in the Aerialite set
ashen warren
in your opinion
unkempt bolt
it isn't better in our opinion though
it's objectively a worse choice than BoB outside of preference
ashen warren
it's objectively faster in both directions compared to wings
it has more adaptability due to burst movement
sand umbra
the advantages provided by the item are invalidated by shit you obtain earlier on and the bosses at the point you obtain it directly favor the Bundle of Balloons' burst movement funnies
vague laurel
they are two completely different types of item movement, with one typically being seen as late items (wings)
ashen warren
boots or calcium purges fall damage
unkempt bolt
the only benefit to wings over BoB is smoother movement, which doesn't help as none of the phm bosses require that type of movement
vague laurel
slime god does IMO
ashen warren
skyline wings only work if you have statigel armour to get that jump
unkempt bolt
i barely use BoB when fighting SG
ashen warren
slime god you can try and dodge it, or you can use bundle and just fly over everything
vague laurel
If you use BoB instead of skyline wings, why are you complaining about the recipe?
ashen warren
because I'd like wings to be relevant
sinful steeple
Calcium potion shouldn't be removed, but nerfed
vague laurel
well have you tried hardmode?
sinful steeple
33% fall damage resist maybe?
unkempt bolt
the point wasn't that BoB is better, it's that skyline wings need a buff
ashen warren
so if you have an item that just plain sucks
lost agate
Fall dmg resist maybe yes
subtle oracle
Just Out right, Remove it.. Idk if removing am item is against the rules...
vague laurel
Remove all magic weapons because I think the class sucks
unkempt bolt
if skyline wings were, as an example, really fast
that could be interesting
a short burst of fast mobility
but that's what BoB is
unkempt bolt
add skyline wings to BoB recipe 
vague laurel
implement wing slot mod into calamity so that skyline wings are better because you dont need an accessory slot
ashen warren
wing slot is absolutely broken in every way
earnest harness
then i'd have to de-implement it cause it breaks with fargo's souls
vague laurel
?
earnest harness
soul of eternity and i think dimensions crashes with wing slot
crude geode
It's an extra accessory slot any time after hm.
lost agate
If removing items is disallowed then the mod has some serious stuff piling problems
earnest harness
try taking it out
vague laurel
nothing happened
earnest harness
you put it back in your inventory?
lost agate
Removing is neccesary at times
vague laurel
yeah I right clicked it
frail mantle
afaik removing items isn't straight up not allowed
unkempt bolt
mm i love my fargo's testing channel
ashen warren
i have been explicitly told that content pruning is a bad mindset and that fabsol doesn't believe in bloat
lost agate
Just look at the l man and astrageldon
frail mantle
it's just that calamity very rarely removes content
earnest harness
that's a very bold opinion for fabsol to have
lost agate
Bloat is a pretty real thing
unkempt bolt
nothing in the dont's about suggs for removing content
lost agate
And i fell calam has it in a lot of scenarios
crude geode
"in relation to swords"
lost agate
The question is how the hell do you rework a thing that is flawed by concept
ashen warren
it was a conversation talking about melee bloat
ashen warren
the , does work in his phrase
lost agate
But like see
If a problem is "literally more than half the melee weapons are broadswords" then reworking the swords wont do jackshit
Because the problem is in their mere existance not what they do
earnest harness
wouldn't reworking them into things that aren't broadswords fix that problem
if it was a problem that is
hollow shell
The questionable part is that this mindset is based on the ratio of weapons, rather than the amount
lost agate
I mean
hollow shell
If you remove 20 broadswords, you just removed 20 melee options and did very little to improve other melee content
lost agate
Lemme get wiki on this
ashen warren
that's been brought up, certain swords working like a mage weapon but sord
earnest harness
of course them not being broadswords doesn't neccesarrily mean that they automatically become interesting choices
ashen warren
it's a kind of compression
by removing 20 sword you no longer need to dedicate 20 swords worth of dev time to those items
crude geode
This is kind of off topic and far away from the original topic.
ashen warren
then you can focus that time on other stuff
crude geode
I don't know.
earnest harness
i think its just exampling in reference to general bloat
ashen warren
no clue but it's giving me the opportunity to maybe write something up
earnest harness
although idk how well you could apply it
hollow shell
"remove calcium potion"
"calamity does not like removing things"
"melee bloat"
^ that's how
sand umbra
so like, here's a question
ashen warren
doesn't* byeah
hollow shell
yeah sorry
sand umbra
why is Calamity so against removing things
lost agate
Hmrmf, wiki doesnt say the amount
ashen warren
fab doesn't believe in bloat
sand umbra
amount of wut
lost agate
Melee weapons
sand umbra
...where is that table
ashen warren
I thought that was stated somewhere
vague laurel
progression shouldnt be linear in calamity. For how long a normal playthrough is, you should be able to come up with a new weapon progression every time
sand umbra
...actually, wait, the melee wep table Alt made is probably funny outdated at this point
lost agate
Theres a table and its pretty damn big
sand umbra
I wanna say, out of the like
tepid root
lost agate
im too tired to count
earnest harness
oh that seems up to date
sand umbra
holy fuckuckuck
crude geode
sand umbra
Calamity has officially breached 200 melee items
crude geode
lost agate
Oh thanks potato
hollow shell
big
lost agate
Told ya
crude geode
ty Rover
sand umbra
daily reminder that Calamity adds more content to a pre-established class than to the new class it introduces
lost agate
So yeah, if you want ratios, 115 still sounds like a lot
tepid root
jeez theres almost as much swords as there is magic weapons
ashen warren
rogue is 2 over ranged which has the bias in vanilla
lost agate
And as far as it concerns me, theres not 115 tiers, so dont think removing some would leave gaps
ashen warren
pensive
earnest harness
tbf i can kinda see why, hard to make spears and flails and boomerangs that are interesting when you can just make swords that do interesting things instead
tepid root
mage swords
sand umbra
are you, like, challenging me
lost agate
Its, not that hard
earnest harness
terraria melee is kind of a meme at its baseline
ashen warren
why not just make all rogue items javelins then and give them the explody or whatever effects
tepid root
e
hollow shell
Again, Fab believes (and I agree) that removing things is a worse option to improving them
If you have 115 broadswords but they're all cool and unique, then there is not a problem
earnest harness
that's probably what the future holds tbqhwyf