suggestions-discussion

[cosmic jungle]

its literally post birb

[dry grotto]

so is mirror blade

[sand umbra]

and you're testing a pre-Provi sword against DoG...why

[cosmic jungle]

no

mirror blade is post CV

which is supposed to be post prov

[dry grotto]

u can do cv pre-prov

same as u can do bumblebirb

they're litteraly in the same scenario

[cosmic jungle]

can doesn't mean it's balanced around that

[frail mantle]

^

[dry grotto]

it still doesn't make sense how it deals so little damage tho

[sand umbra]

hey

hey clown

try it on Provi

[dry grotto]

i can't

i'm doing a min%

[frail mantle]

hey let's balance Yharon drops to not shred Prov, wouldn't that be wacky haha

[cosmic jungle]

dude

[wooden wedge]

Start a new character and world with cheat sheet on

[sand umbra]

I don't care

[vocal grotto]

Balancing a pre-Prov wep for DoG

Sounds kinda dumb

[wooden wedge]

Then do swordsplosion

[sand umbra]

try it on Provi

[distant gyro]

balance around low%

[cosmic jungle]

it literally doesn't matter that you're doing low%

[distant gyro]

ok boomer

[cosmic jungle]

the weapon is balanced around prov

[proven tide]

min%
prov is required for yharon iirc??

[sand umbra]

no

she isn't

[frail mantle]

no

[dry grotto]

it also doesn't matter that u can get every sentinel weapon pre-prov to shred prov

[distant gyro]

no

[dry grotto]

so

[proven tide]

not any more? damn

[dry grotto]

and no it isn't

[distant gyro]

but anyways

[proven tide]

this is sad cringe hours

[cosmic jungle]

again

"can" doesn't mean it's balanced around that tier

[dry grotto]

also, swordsplosion is a rare weapon

wait, change that to extremely rare

2.5%

[distant gyro]

btw it's probably the best weapon for low% yharon

[cosmic jungle]

false

[frail mantle]

weapons should be balanced around where you're supposed to get them not where you can get them

[cosmic jungle]

if you're doing the scal low% run

[distant gyro]

low% to scal has too much better options

[dry grotto]

mirror blade is probably the best tho

for melee that is

[cosmic jungle]

I used aether's whisper on doggo

it worked just fine

[distant gyro]

low% to yharon is basically birb weapons, no sentinels, no prov, no dog

[dry grotto]

aether isn't low % tho

[cosmic jungle]

yes it is

[dry grotto]

no?

[cosmic jungle]

yes it is

[dry grotto]

u need spectre bars

u can't get spectre bars without killing plantera

[cosmic jungle]

well for the scal low% you need to kill plant anyway

[dry grotto]

no

[cosmic jungle]

yes you do

[dry grotto]

why would you

[cosmic jungle]

to summon seasonal moons

you need the essences for the scal summon

[hearty plaza]

for life alloy

[sand umbra]

(AEWs are outliers and should not be counted)

[hearty plaza]

hueh

[cosmic jungle]

life alloy is gained from ravager

[hearty plaza]

isnt that only post provi

[cosmic jungle]

no

well, yes

[dry grotto]

no

[cosmic jungle]

but rav does drop the mats required to make them pre prov

[dry grotto]

the life alloy itself is post-prov

but u can just kill it a bunch of times pre-prov for the cores and life alloy recipes

[hearty plaza]

oh nice

[dry grotto]

okay, in that case: better example

terrarian deals more damage than swordsplosion

terrarian is post-ml, but swordsplosion is post-bumble

[distant gyro]

funny

[cosmic jungle]

terrarian gets cucked on provi because i frames

so swordsplosion deals way more damage

[distant gyro]

Swordsplosion kills Provi in 3:15

[dry grotto]

prov

[distant gyro]

Terrarian in 11:25

[dry grotto]

but not doggo

[unkempt bolt]

11 minute lmao

[cosmic jungle]

why would you use swordsplosion for doggo again

[distant gyro]

Provi's average kill time is 4 minutes

[dry grotto]

how else am i going to hit it from afar

[distant gyro]

meaning it's batshit op for prov

why are you trying to use it on fucking dog

[dry grotto]

calm down

[proven tide]

Swordsplosion kills Provi in 3:15
Terrarian in 11:25
can we just appreciate that altix destroyed 15 minutes of the spacetime continuum to test both of these without breaking convo momentum

[distant gyro]

I tested meowmere and daytime was over before prov dies

[vocal grotto]

Uhhh, nobody's going nuts.
There's no need to "calm down".

[distant gyro]

so yea that happened too

[proven tide]

let's add another fifteen minutes

altix erased half an hour of time itself to fight provi three times for the sake of this convo

[dry grotto]

also, it doesn't take 11 minutes unless u've got a bad setup

[cosmic jungle]

yes it does

terrarian is ass on provi

[distant gyro]

space time god

[sand umbra]

Terrarian and Meowmere's performances make me pensive

[vocal grotto]

[frail mantle]

terrarian implodes because of the fact that global i-frames exist

[vocal grotto]

Terrarian sucks against Prov

[sand umbra]

Terrarian sucks against Prov

Microwave is legit better for most practical purposes

[hearty plaza]

buff meowmere so it exists

[frail mantle]

in fact, Thomas had to manually kill global i-frames for terrarian for ee just so it wouldn't suck farthole vs anything Calamity post-ML

[distant gyro]

iframe post-ml is a farthole

[sand umbra]

that is, in fact, what I had to do to make Terrarian not suck

[distant gyro]

star wrath with piercing sucks until it was removed

[sand umbra]

and even then, I have the grace of not having to put up with a certain glove and bag

[hearty plaza]

iframe post-ml is a farthole
ftfy

[sand umbra]

giving Terrarian local i-frames with Bag's effects in place would be a balancing death sentence

[distant gyro]

thanks bricc

[dry grotto]

afaik, bag doesn't even change much 'bout terrarian

[distant gyro]

yea it doesn't

[cosmic jungle]

it gets cucked anyway

[distant gyro]

apart from range ofc

[sand umbra]

Terrarian literally gains no benefit from Bag aside from range

[dry grotto]

it's sad tbh

[sand umbra]

counterweights are not a benefit shut up

[hearty plaza]

hey- ok ill shut

[dry grotto]

counterweights suck

[sand umbra]

[distant gyro]

[dry grotto]

buff counterweights tbh

[sand umbra]

I'll do it

in five (9) Fargo years

[hearty plaza]

counterweights are godly

[dry grotto]

also, what did u change 'bout terrarian's Iframes again

[hearty plaza]

you get to deal 1 damage if you run into the enemy sometimes™️

[dry grotto]

cus the balls seem to make the terrarian itself not hit

[frail mantle]

he made them local i-frames instead

[cosmic jungle]

basically

[ashen warren]

oof

[cosmic jungle]

the weapon is hitting the boss too many times

that means it gains too much invinicibility

and it dies

[dry grotto]

the boss or the weapon

[cosmic jungle]

weapon

[dry grotto]

ech

should've made both local iframes tbh

[cosmic jungle]

you cannot make an enemy have local i frames iirc

[distant gyro]

the boss is just

no

[frail mantle]

also why would the boss have local i-frames

[proven tide]

okay, let me get this straight.
Pancake, you:
— Called Swordsplosion "way too weak".
— Backed this up by giving anecdotal evidence with no recordings about its, a pre-Providence weapon, poor performance against the Devourer of Gods.
— Did not test it, a Pre-Providence weapon, against Providence.
— Stated that you could not test it against Providence because you are doing a particular style of run, and this therefore meant you would not be able to make a new character to test the claims you made, or open a different world.
— Contradicted Altix's, a beta tester, statements about the run stats of the weapon and its supposed competitors against Providence, despite claiming that you were not capable of testing it yourself.
— (admittedly wisely) did not even acknowledge Altix's, a spacetime god, subsequent list of every tier-relevant weapon's kill times and DPS values.

[vocal grotto]

I'm 99.9% sure that's nearly impossible. Even if it's isn't, like... why

[proven tide]

late post but tl;dr pancake please just acknowledge when you might be talkin out your ass and just listen to the people who are qualified to do the testing you didn't even try

[dry grotto]

sigh

fine, i'm wrong

there

happy now?

leave me be thanks

[proven tide]

bee*

[distant gyro]

[cosmic jungle]

Vetus I'm gonna end you for that joke

[quick ice]

hey Sero, the naming for your suggestion is a bit misleading
Instead of using it to point out that Range and Melee get too much love, say that "The Mage class needs more content Pre-Moonlord" or something along those lines since that's the actual suggestion part of your suggestion

[ashen warren]

oh the devs definitely made the number of mage weapons crafted at that point so litrle on purpose

[zealous ridge]

is this sarcastic

[toxic kettle]

yes

[tired haven]

Perhaps

[teal ibex]

could we like

maaaaaaaaybe get some regulations on balance suggestions

it's shocking how often they wind up in chaos and flame fests

even requiring a bare minimum of like, one kill time at tier would work wonders

[dry grotto]

afaik that's how it worked in the past

[wooden wedge]

@dapper coral reason?

[dapper coral]

i feel like it would balance out the ranger class a little more

in terms of that aspect

because almost no ranger weapons can go through blocks like melee and magic can

[wooden wedge]

ok but why would ranger need that?

in boss fights it's nearly useless

[hallow kraken]

vanquisher arrows

[ashen warren]

whats a noclip

[wooden wedge]

block piercing

[brittle nexus]

going through blocks I think

[dapper coral]

no clip means it goes through blocks

[ashen warren]

i feel like it would balance out the ranger class a little more
dudr what the fuck ranger is already the best and most stupid claas i game

"balance out"

[gray nebula]

what

[wooden wedge]

in the aspect of them having block piercing weapons

[brittle nexus]

and also there isn't many noclip mage weapons I can think of

[wooden wedge]

which is also why

[brittle nexus]

noclip isn't needed

[gray nebula]

where is the reasoning

[wooden wedge]

it's somewhere

[gray nebula]

not seein it chief

[dapper coral]

i think its more important for farming and stuff

[zealous ridge]

plus its 2 suggestions

[dapper coral]

sorry im new to this server where am i supposed to put the suggestion

[ashen warren]

if ur new dont suggest anything

[wooden wedge]

here first usually

for discussing it

[ashen warren]

unless ur sure about what ur saying

[brittle nexus]

also edit it into one message

[zealous ridge]

[dapper coral]

sorry

[wooden wedge]

I mean they can just kill the first messages reactions

the mods and sugg people

[zealous ridge]

also heq, were you referring to a specific suggestion that caused a heated discussion or are you just saying it often results in that?

[teal ibex]

i mean, we've had a couple of quite recent examples but in general balance suggestions are the opposite of productive because they don't follow any standard

"this is bad because i anecdotally had a poor experience with the weapon"

"i anecdotally think it's fine"

murder commences

[zealous ridge]

yeah, ive seen that a bit

[tepid root]

annihilate all

[dry grotto]

i smell murder

[zealous ridge]

uh,, i remember there was a big shitstorm following me talking about the birb rework

because i guess im just need to git gud (tm)

[dry grotto]

ohh yes i remember

did u beat it?

[zealous ridge]

no not yet

prov was easier

[dry grotto]

try getting mirror blade

it shreds bumble

[zealous ridge]

im uh

im a summoner

[dry grotto]

ohhh

in that case

the lanterns

so signus

[zealous ridge]

yeah, that's what i was thinking

[dry grotto]

(or if u want farm for the rare variant, but nobody does that)

[zealous ridge]

but in either case, that wasnt really my issue

of course i can tear birb apart with a post sentinel item

[dry grotto]

i really hope bags will be added to the sentinals soon

[zealous ridge]

agreed

but either way, my problem was less about balance (although i think the fight is unbalanced) and more about how fun it was

which i didn't really find it fun at all

i mean, dying isnt fun

[teal ibex]

i mean yeah, that's the problem

[dry grotto]

i mean, bumble rly isn't fun

from personal experience

i'd say the issue lies in it's moveset

[teal ibex]

i find providence to be the hardest boss in the mod (in deathmode), and tend to come out of that boss bitter and unfulfilled

but i know lots of people will DEFINITELY disagree with me

that's just how it runs a lot of the time

[dry grotto]

the thing with providence is that it's a big curve for learning

like, providence is all about trial and error

nobody's ever going to beat prov first try when they see him for the first time

[zealous ridge]

providence is also borderline unfair, but i have fun with dodging it

[dry grotto]

atleast prov is fun yeh

[zealous ridge]

at least i think that

[wooden wedge]

aren't all bosses just trail and error

[dry grotto]

even if he's sorta unfair

no sand

some bosses are either pure rng or just easy af

[teal ibex]

i've fought providence literally hundreds of times

it's still the hardest boss in the mod for me

[zealous ridge]

hundreds of successful attempts?

[brittle nexus]

prov has gotten some updates recently to make the fight less annoying

[zealous ridge]

or just attempts?

[brittle nexus]

homing flames being cancelled in cocoon phase

[dry grotto]

the homing flames are garbo in hell

[teal ibex]

no, but proportionally speaking the attempts to successes on providence for me are by far the lowest, even considering a general learning curve

[dry grotto]

it's insane how hard they are to dodge

[zealous ridge]

i have the same experience, hect

[dry grotto]

i have the worst time with yharon/doggo

but for doggo it's cause i always limit myself during his fight

[teal ibex]

like, it took me far more attempts to get my first successful scal, but now i can pretty consistently first try the boss with the right gear

[dry grotto]

for yharon, i just really hate fighting him

[teal ibex]

never providence. always need a dozen or a few dozen attempts

but that's subjective

[dry grotto]

Scal is the perfect example of a trial and error boss done right

[teal ibex]

other people don't have that issue (especially if they play rev) because they just do better with the boss

well, and they make good arenas

[dry grotto]

there's rng, but it's so small and so easily avoidable that it's not even a thing

[zealous ridge]

eh, i think there's objective facts about the fight that make it so inconsistent

[teal ibex]

oh absolutely

i've presented them before

but that doesn't change how people will perceive it

to me what a big objective issue might be could be a very minor nitpick to others

[dry grotto]

i hate the tridents he fires at you

[zealous ridge]

this kind of ties in to my problem with how suggestions work now

like... for qol things, it works

[dry grotto]

suggestions will get changed soon tho

[zealous ridge]

ye ik

but something will stay around

the vote to send to dev server

[dry grotto]

also, i hate how providence goes away when the sun falls

[zealous ridge]

which is inherently limiting because you need to get more than 100 votes to even be realistically considered

[dry grotto]

like, i'm sure it doesn't make sense even lore-wise

[teal ibex]

no it literally exists as a direct result of lore

and that's the only reason afaik

[zealous ridge]

(ye is pretty annoying either way)

(she's a long fight sometimes)

[dry grotto]

but she's basically a sun goddess

[teal ibex]

and yeah, star votes aren't perfect but the alternative, being suggestion curators, would be kiiiiiiiiinda weird

[zealous ridge]

i mean yeah

[brittle nexus]

it's also good to get at least a small sample of the public opinion

[zealous ridge]

the server has gotten so damn big that stuff like how thorium does it can't be viable because the chat would be constantly flooded

[brittle nexus]

because if nobody wants it, then you know

[zealous ridge]

ye true

[ashen warren]

how to get more stars

1. have a coloured name

[zealous ridge]

it leads to situations like that, yeah

[teal ibex]

you can't fix people

[zealous ridge]

ye ofc

im not saying to fix the human race

[teal ibex]

i would love if you did

that'd be powerful

[zealous ridge]

im not a god yet give me 1000 years

[tepid root]

fix the human race - ✅

[teal ibex]

but yea i think star system is the lesser of evils, at least right now

[zealous ridge]

fair enough

[teal ibex]

i do think a curator system could work and i'd epicly apply but i also feel like people would get even more ticked off than they already do

peeps like krastyan would have an absolute field day with a change like that

[zealous ridge]

and another thing, there has been a lot invested into this star based sugg system

an entire bot is dedicated to it

[teal ibex]

yeah it'd take a fair bit of reworking to have an alternate system

[wooden wedge]

there's gonna be a bot dedicated to the next system

[teal ibex]

honestly, i think the truest of ideals is a double system

star based, but curators can also selectively input suggestions depending upon certain circumstances

but again, operating on ideals is usual not practical

suggestions_discussion, the home of quixotism

i recently rediscovered that word and immediately thought of this discord channel LOL

[zealous ridge]

amazing

[terse sundial]

funny suggestion rework happening soon dw

[zealous ridge]

ye im aware

and im also sure that it entails more than just what rover outlined

there may be more

[terse sundial]

we are still working out how it's gonna work

[teal ibex]

time to implement suggestion mods

[zealous ridge]

suggestions administrator role

[terse sundial]

I mean that is essentially rover's role rn

[wooden wedge]

sugg mods exist

they're over there on the side of your screen

the green ones

[frail mantle]

wow Dead Inside is sugg mod

[wooden wedge]

colapso

..

[dapper coral]

what would you guys think of more healing ranged weapons?

[zealous ridge]

[dapper coral]

right now its only aeries, pearl god and claret cannon

[zealous ridge]

like... lifesteal?

[dapper coral]

ye

[zealous ridge]

ehh

[tepid root]

lifesteal ech

its either shit or really powerful

hard to balance

[zealous ridge]

ranger is more of a brass cannon, i don't think he needs as much healing as other classes

[teal ibex]

or makeshift regen

haha

[tepid root]

palladium good

[zealous ridge]

br u h

claret cannon bullets wouldn't be terrible ig

but still idk

[teal ibex]

i still pray for the brighter future of lifesteal

[dapper coral]

bc like aeries is super strong with lifesteal but claret cannon is bad for it

honestly yes

[dry grotto]

Lifesteal atm can be explained in one single weapon

Proboscis

[dapper coral]

oh god

[zealous ridge]

gilded is a meme lmao

literally my favorite weapon to use against prov and polter tho

really fun to just true meme everything

[teal ibex]

gilded proboscis used to be the best weapon in the game against dog

[dry grotto]

Not true

There's always been a better

[zealous ridge]

i disagree

[dry grotto]

One of the best, definitely

[zealous ridge]

prob is epis

[teal ibex]

i can't think of any that were better before bazooka

[sand umbra]

Gilded Proboscis lifesteals on hit and iirc bypasses lifesteal cooldown

[zealous ridge]

and birb was originally balanced around post-dog, yet could be fought at any time post-ml

[dry grotto]

Thomas, u won't rly notice it half the time

[sand umbra]

because it is a spear, it hits infinitely as long as it's out and is not forced back by hitting something

[teal ibex]

oh trust me

you used to very notice it

[dry grotto]

Used to

[sand umbra]

you could effectively facetank DoG with it iirc

[dry grotto]

Now it's basically a free bandaid

[zealous ridge]

no its still good healing i feel

[dry grotto]

Neh

[teal ibex]

couldn't facetank, but you could full heal in like 1s

[zealous ridge]

its not tanking levels

[sand umbra]

lole

[dry grotto]

It's less heal than the bloodflare armor tho

[zealous ridge]

its still good heals tho

healing is healing

[sand umbra]

doesn't Bloodflare healing stink though

[zealous ridge]

you cant say its only a half.

[sand umbra]

no

get that joke outta here

[teal ibex]

dude the guy who made that comment has commented on my videos before

it's epic

[sand umbra]

[zealous ridge]

anyways

uh

[dry grotto]

Probo shines vs immobile mobs with hitboxes that don't suck

[zealous ridge]

ive been amassing problems with the yharon fight in a doc, should i share it here for now?

[dry grotto]

But if it's something mobile like yharon u can consider yourself lucky not dieing whilst using it

[zealous ridge]

(tru)

[teal ibex]

uh oh, yharon stuff

feel free, i wonder if you came to the same conclusions i did a couple months back

[zealous ridge]

i would like feedback on it, ye

if you have anything to add we can discuss it

its not finished yet but ive talked about deto flames, homing flares, and dashing

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZzbT0Fl88h90-G-CCScWDIVyFOJrJvDV3jmVayBHVX8/edit?usp=sharing

[sand umbra]

something I feel should be noted

post-DoG mega-acc instakills don't proc while a boss is alive

[zealous ridge]

wait really

[sand umbra]

yeah

[zealous ridge]

hory sheet

well there goes that problem lmao

[sand umbra]

yet you mention them in your assertion of Det Flames

[zealous ridge]

is that listed on wiki?

[sand umbra]

yes

[zealous ridge]

bc i couldnt tell honestly

lmao

ill fix that

[sand umbra]

[[Elemental Gauntlet]] e.g.

[red storm]

https://calamitymod.gamepedia.com/Elemental_Gauntlet

[zealous ridge]

blep

[sand umbra]

blep

[teal ibex]

i think the only significant point that you missed is that the projectiles which summon tornados are not communicated effectively to the player

[sand umbra]

'nadoes are the big funny

[zealous ridge]

ye i have not gotten to the tornadoes yet

im planning out how to talk about them

[teal ibex]

nobody learns when they happen because they don't stand out, and that's if they even realize that they can manipulate the projectile to begin with

in my eyes that is the biggest fault with yharon as it exists currently

[sand umbra]

this is why you don't make everything the exact same color in a fight

e

[zealous ridge]

they're what make yharon a positioning fight, quite honestly

alongside the dragon fireballs

have one of those nadoes screw up your dodging space and you're cucked

[teal ibex]

yeah calamity has had a really bad history with color theory

pbg: 18 layers of green, the machine, never before seen (because i can't see anything)

it's A LOT better now tho

[sand umbra]

hey so why do the shaders in boss fights exist

[zealous ridge]

I KNOW RIGHT

[cosmic jungle]

you know you can just slap lighting on retro and no more eye death

[zealous ridge]

OHHH MY GOSH

i know but i want my funny good lighting colors

[sand umbra]

things like Yharon's orange BG and PBG's green BG are probably amongst the biggest contributors to the bullshit induced by e.g. Yharon's 'nado spawner projectiles

[teal ibex]

but yeah, i agree for the points that you've brought up, just that one in particular deserves to be pointed out

[zealous ridge]

ill have a proper section for the tornadoes

[sand umbra]

the little tornadoes that spawn the big tornadoes blend in extremely well with the BG color induced for the fight

they don't stand out at all and in fact look like a completely normal projectile

...until a fatass pillar of flame spawns on your miserable ass and makes you eat the fat die

[dry grotto]

Btw, remember when we talked 'bout probo heal memes?

Apparently it don't work on dog

[zealous ridge]

only works on the head now iirc

[teal ibex]

yes

[zealous ridge]

head and tail?

[teal ibex]

you're welcome for that

[dry grotto]

Only head then

[cosmic jungle]

probostics cheese was a meme

[dry grotto]

Not tail

[sand umbra]

Banshee Hook is real power

[cosmic jungle]

ok banshee with old rippers was capable of 100-40%ing doggo

phase 2

[teal ibex]

banshee hook sucks for dog

it's rng

on yharon, however

[cosmic jungle]

false

banshee hook is really good

it's just funky to use

[dry grotto]

Why would u use banshee vs yharon tho

[sand umbra]

but like

the assertion to be made here, regarding Yharon's 'nadoes, is that the projectiles that spawn them need to stand out more and actually clearly be leadable

[teal ibex]

i subjectively think it sucks for dog because dog inherently restricts your range outside of certain circumstances

[dry grotto]

Instead of cosmic ej- discharge

[teal ibex]

which is why i say it's rng

it's definitely a valid choice

i just find it insufferable

you would use banshee hook on yharon to skip dog

[sand umbra]

this is why I was going to bring up the possibility of maybe obliterating the funny shader in Yharon's fight that causes a lot of that blending in I mentioned before
and replacing it with something that actually complements the fight well rather than making it more annoying

t

[cosmic jungle]

I think for doggo melee you shouldn't just use one weapon

banshee for purple phases is really good but socks at blue so you'd want to use something like soul edge or terror blade

[zealous ridge]

crescent moon hahayues

[teal ibex]

i think if a weapon is only situationally epic then it's kind of a shrug personally but that's just me being a stickler

[dapper coral]

i managed to use soul edge for the whole fight and i got em

[cosmic jungle]

believe me

[dapper coral]

bc it just spits out souls for a while right, so u just let em hang and then they chase the tail

[cosmic jungle]

banshee can get some epic melts

[teal ibex]

it's such a unique weapon though, all of its weaknesses on DoG become strengths against yharon which somehow makes it similarly valid for both fights

[cosmic jungle]

also it's pretty good on old duke

[teal ibex]

yeah anything that regularly closes distance is banshee hook's territory

range is its weakness and if you axe that it's insanely powerful

[cosmic jungle]

indeed

[dry grotto]

Mirror edge is also hillariously strong against the right enemies

[dapper coral]

i love terror blade for events

just throw on the zerg and kill everything

also what do u guys think about aquatic scourge? ik now he has an actual purpose to killing him, for acid rain, but his moveset is so boring i feel

he just makes bullet hell of spikes and stuff, then spins around a little bit if u in revengeance

[dapper violet]

it's a worm
what else would you like it to do

[dapper coral]

i mean

i feel like it should at least have phases or something

he just feels like almost a passive boss

where he just shoots a bunch of projectiles

charges at u once

then does another round of projectiles

etc

and he doesnt drop anything super important either

(i guess this also goes for brimstone elemental since it only has 3 phases, but at least she drops the rose stone)

im glad that the scourge got an actual purpose to defeating him, but he still seems a bit eh in terms of the boss fight

[dry grotto]

Brimstone is good for chaos farm tho

[gusty geode]

Something's really gotta be done about the melee bloat tbh

[dapper coral]

yea exactly, brimstone actually has a purpose to killing her multiple times

[dry grotto]

What's melee bloat

[dapper coral]

which is why im not bothered about her phases

[gusty geode]

Too much

I imagine they could maybe release a poll and see which melee/ranged weapons are used the least
Then remove those

[dapper coral]

as a warrior, i generally agree that here are too many melee weps

but rather than removing weapons i feel like adding more would be better

[gusty geode]

Yeah, that'd also work

[sleek wadi]

Straight up removal is probably not happening, as the only time a melee weapon was actually removed IIRC was Crimson Saber which got the axe because it was literally just Bladetongue. However, reworking them is on the table and Ozz has told us that he's thinking about turning some of the bloat into other weapon types like spears which would also help with the melee bloat issue.

[dapper coral]

quarterstaff time

[sand umbra]

some of the swords in the mod could honestly stand to be transmogrified into other melee weapon types

[digital saddle]

melee has a lot of weapons so maybe avoid adding even more

[sand umbra]

or even into other class weapons entirely

[sleek wadi]

Big part of why melee bloat is so noticable is the fact that it's all god damn swords. Seriously, compare the size of the broadsword melee section to literally every other section on the wiki.

[digital saddle]

but i dont think removing an item is ever a good idea

outside very niche cases

[sleek wadi]

Pretty sure the broadsword section is like, as large as the other sections COMBINED

[dapper coral]

^

[sleek wadi]

Er, other melee sections.

[dry grotto]

Yes

[digital saddle]

one easy way to reduce melee bloat is to kill melee variants of rogue weapons

[dapper coral]

i mean almost all the endgame melee weps are swords

[dry grotto]

There's 9 iirc

[frail mantle]

endgame as in Shadowspec or Exo

[sleek wadi]

All the endgame melee weapons? Try actually every section of the game, it's ridiculous.

[sand umbra]

(for example, Aquatic Dissolution could believably become a spell tome or wand, the Biome Blade line's gimmick could be either expanded upon or moved to a different class, and the various melee variants of rogue weps don't need to exist)

[dry grotto]

Nanoblack should be pure rogue

[digital saddle]

i genuinely dont understand why nanoblack reaper has a melee variant

[dry grotto]

Instead of melee/rogue

[sleek wadi]

Melee variants of rogue weapons should stay... if the melee variant is there because the first part of the upgrade line was melee ala Vampire Knives and Paladin Hammer

[sand umbra]

no

[digital saddle]

vampire knives should be rogue also

[dry grotto]

No

[sand umbra]

no

also

[dry grotto]

Vampire should stay melee

But paladin definitely feels more like a rogue

[sand umbra]

...I'm finna pull a power move and make Vamp Knives classless

[dry grotto]

No

[sand umbra]

yes.

[dapper coral]

oh god

[dry grotto]

I'll smite you

[dapper coral]

i mean what are we distinguishing as rogue vs melee rn

[sand umbra]

smite me with what power

[digital saddle]

this but with vampire knives

[dry grotto]

Bee powers

[sleek wadi]

It does feel more rogue yes, but a massive part of melee's bloat issue is weapon variety. Target the other swords, not the stuff that is actually sorta interesting in comparison.

[dapper coral]

bc vampire knives are def a thrown weapon, as is like the elemental disk

[dry grotto]

No

[dapper coral]

yea

[sand umbra]

anyway

vanilla weps aren't gonna become rogue weps

this has been asserted already

[dapper coral]

turn swords into other things

[dry grotto]

Cause u don't throw the thing u hold

[digital saddle]

no they wont

but they should

[sand umbra]

no

[dry grotto]

Not all

I do wanna petition boomerangs becoming rogue tho

[frail mantle]

making vanilla throwing weapons become rogue weapons would just make Rogue even more like bootleg throwing tbh

[dry grotto]

Like the vanilla pre-hm ones

[sand umbra]

(I mean, Leon, it already is on a fundamental level, but people yell at me when I say that, so)

[digital saddle]

rogue is literally throwing but expanded

[dry grotto]

U're not wrong

Rogue is litteraly throwing but renamed

[dapper coral]

can we get more scythe train weapons for rogue

[frail mantle]

yes, but vanilla throwing weapons becoming rogue would make it even more so

[unkempt bolt]

you throw consumable and nonconumable throwables, stealth doesn't make that huge of a difference

[digital saddle]

if this was a traditional rogue class it would be like shortswords only

[sand umbra]

vanilla throwing-type weapons becoming rogue would actually directly interfere with othermod shit and the already delicate fabric of what exists of vanilla balance

never mind the fact it would require a new item to be made for each item converted, and drop chances replaced

[sleek wadi]

So like, Feralthorn Claymore, that useless ass Perennial Bar weapon that you'd have to look up the wiki to figure out what it even does because it's that useless? It has a sprite that lends itself well to being turned into a Heart Rapier or shortsword kinda deal

[sand umbra]

I can't even begin to express to you how many issues that would cause that would force Calamity to remember how balancing around things that aren't itself works

[digital saddle]

stealth has been way overnerfed.

there is 1 weapon ive been able to find that actually gains dps from using stealth strkes

[sand umbra]

stealth is probably going to be buffed in the near future

the devs are aware it got overnerfed

[dapper coral]

how about that one melee wep that drops from hallowed mimics that no one uses

[dry grotto]

Has it ever been strong

[dapper coral]

its another claymore that idk the name of

[sand umbra]

[[Celestial Claymore]]

[red storm]

https://calamitymod.gamepedia.com/Celestial_Claymore

[sand umbra]

drops from all Biome Mimic types

also hey can we talk about something that Calamity has that makes no sense

[dapper coral]

oh yep u right

[sand umbra]

on the topic of melee bloat

[sleek wadi]

Celestial Claymore does see use as it does pretty well against Skeletron Prime and sort of Twins in particular, but that thing could be turned into something else.

[sand umbra]

[[Terra Edge]]

[red storm]

https://calamitymod.gamepedia.com/Terra_Edge

[sand umbra]

can anyone express to me, in 20 words or less, why this weapon exists

[dapper coral]

but actually tho

[gusty geode]

What's even the difference between it and the Blade

[sleek wadi]

Meant to be healing alternative to Terra Blade ala Bloody Edge, but healing removed so

[dapper coral]

i didnt even know that weapon existed by the time i got to post-yharon

[frail mantle]

because Fab thought it'd be cool

[radiant meadow]

pretty much I'm guessing

[dapper coral]

i didn't even use the terrablade bc theres so manyu other goddamn melee weps to use

[radiant meadow]

too late to scrap it now

[sand umbra]

you could remove it and grant most of that functionality to the Terra Blade
and nothing would really change

[dapper coral]

can we get like

broken hero bows and stuff

for terra-blade tier weps

[sleek wadi]

I would say "shortsword it" but then Terra Shiv. So I was about to say "spear it" but then Terra Lance

[sand umbra]

NO

[dapper coral]

bc the swords are everywhere

calamitas drops em

[gusty geode]

Terra Flail

[radiant meadow]

terra flail 😳

[dapper coral]

so easily

bruh

[sand umbra]

Broken Hero Swords were a mistake

[frail mantle]

Teragatling Gun

[bitter drift]

the terrarian

[gusty geode]

Tbh I like the concept
Makes it seem like you're using the remains of an old sword to turn your replicas into the real deal

[sleek wadi]

Okay if we ever get a Terra-flail it NEEDS to be called Terraton for that sweet pun

[dapper coral]

i like the broken hero swords, i just think that they're way too easily obtained in calamity since u can get them 100% from calamitas

i would rather ask for like

25% chance

[sleek wadi]

Not like mothrons are particularly difficult to kill but okay.

[dapper coral]

but i mean theres just too many ways to get them

bc theyre used in so many recipes

so i would rather have like

a broken hero sword -esque type thing but for all the other classes

as a drop chance instead

so u have a 100% chance to get one of them

[sand umbra]

what purpose would that serve

aside from giving Calamity even more materials that have no purpose other than looking cool

given the knowledge that dozens of materials already lack some much-needed love as is

[dapper coral]

i just mean like

in an effort to get more wepaons for other class

rather than focusing so much on melee

[sand umbra]

that's not how that works though

you know as well as I do any given one of those materials will have exactly one express purpose

[gusty geode]

You can rip the bulbs off Man Eaters and Angry Trappers and do exactly one thing with each
And I forget what that one thing is

[sleek wadi]

Murky Paste and Murky Sludge are 2 different items btw

[dapper coral]

true

u can literally make the plantera bulb or some potions or something

[sand umbra]

Maneater Bulbs make Photosynthesis Potions, Bounding Potions, Living Dew, and the Portabulb

[dapper coral]

kinda whatever

living dew and the bulb are really the only important ones

[sand umbra]

Trapper Bulbs do all of the above except Bounding Potions

and only those

[sleek wadi]

NGL when I was first thinking about making the Sponge in a playthrough, I thought Murky Sludge and Murky Paste were the same thing and honestly they really should.

[sand umbra]

Murky Paste makes Bezoar, Living Dew, and Portabulb

[sleek wadi]

They make different things, but why the fuck are they different in the first place.

[civic pond]

i dont even bother remembering their names

[sand umbra]

Murky Sludge is actually cool and not a Jungle mat but it's barely used for anything

[sleek wadi]

Similar theming, similar sprites, similar sources even

[civic pond]

That one is in the corruption right..?

Or slimes

idk

[sand umbra]

they're not similarly themed or similarly sprited or have similar sources at all though

you're getting Murky Sludge confused with literally every Jungle material

[dapper coral]

just too many things to get

like

gypsy powder or whatever

[sand umbra]

this is Murky Sludge

[dapper coral]

makes like

2 things

[sleek wadi]

Isn't the sprite for Murky Paste or whatever just Murky Sludge but green and with spikes?

[sand umbra]

this drops from Blighted Slimes and other shit

[queen sail]

...no

[dapper coral]

and u need to kill moths for it

[queen sail]

[civic pond]

oh so it was blighted slimes

[dapper coral]

which are extremely rare

so its like

[sand umbra]

wait no
Corrupt/Crimslimes and Mother Slimes

[civic pond]

they're kind of

oddly specific

:br:

[sand umbra]

Murky Paste moment

this drops from Arapaimas and Spiked Jungle Slimes specifically

[civic pond]

...why arapaimas

e

[sand umbra]

who the fuck knows

[dapper coral]

bc they dont drop anything otherwise?

[sand umbra]

why were Moths given a new material that does exactly 2 things

[dapper coral]

bc they only have 1 drop that does 1 thing otherwise?

idk

kinda dumb reasoning imo

[queen sail]

Really one thing thomas

[sand umbra]

why

[dapper coral]

u can even buy it from the damn witch doctor after golem

instead of killing moths

[sleek wadi]

And why is Gypsy Powder the one that's sold as opposed to Butterfly Dust, which is NOT a 100% drop.

[dapper coral]

i literally do not udnerstnad

[sand umbra]

Gypsy Powder
makes Living Dew and butterflies

because somehow Butterfly Dust, the pre-existing Moth drop in the same fucking recipe for the latter, wasn't good enough

[dapper coral]

they are very similar in sprite also

its just that the powder has some spooky smoke on it

why

[tired haven]

One thing I could suppose in that situation is "there are cool new drops for most jungle enemies because reusing spores and shit is wack, this one is for consistency"

[dapper coral]

even like desert feathers are used for like 5 things

[tired haven]

Nor true neither strong (about the gypsy powder) but yknow

[civic pond]

still pretty bloated imo

[tired haven]

perhaps

Not the worst bloat either, so for do i care

[civic pond]

I guess

[dapper coral]

like

blighted gel could easily be murky sludge

bone dust and bone ash could probably be changed into something else

[radiant meadow]

there is some extraneous material bloat

[dapper coral]

desert feathers could just be yeeted in favor of feathers and sand

[radiant meadow]

desert feathers need not be replaced

[sleek wadi]

I still think Murky Paste and Murky Sludge should be folded into the same material

[sand umbra]

they need be given more uses

[civic pond]

Desert feathers are something i actually remember

[radiant meadow]

getting sun spirit staff should not require you to murder harpies

[tepid root]

feathers early game :rolling_rick:

[tired haven]

Over-utilizing harpy feathers is worse ngl

[dapper coral]

perhaps

[radiant meadow]

desert feathers will make something new

if I get off my lazy ass to code it

[civic pond]

I agree about the murky materials though

[dapper coral]

but if u get a summon weapon from the starter bag then whats the point of another summon

with like 2 more dmg

[sand umbra]

the point of another summon is to have a better summon

[radiant meadow]

sun spirit is a good deal better than squirrels iirc

squirrels have pitiful damage

[sand umbra]

squirrels are slow, gravity-affected, cannot shoot through tiles, and have a tendency to miss

[tired haven]

Remind me last time where base damage was final decisive factor in calamity

[dapper coral]

actually wait nvm i was thinking of the wulfrum thingy

that was last version

[sleek wadi]

Sun Spirit Staff can actually protect you, unlike squirrels who are too busy PHASING IN AND OUT OF REALITY

[civic pond]

but good enough for cnidrions so im satisfied

[radiant meadow]

br

[sand umbra]

sure, they're dimensional interlopers and can phase between planes of existence at will, but they still suck from a combat perspective

e

[dapper coral]

ok fair enough

[gusty geode]

Don't weapons that do True Damage just do their base damage without any changes

[radiant meadow]

True damage is a Thorium thing

[dry grotto]

True damage is underused imo

[gusty geode]

Ah
Could've sworn Cal's all-class weapons used that type

[radiant meadow]

marked magnum, lunic eye, and aetheticus can get damage bonuses

golden gun cannot

not sure about RE guns

[queen sail]

Re guns do percent damage right

Or do they just hit hard

[sleek wadi]

Why is Golden Gun exempt from getting damage bonuses anyway

[civic pond]

So coldheart doesn't gain any damage bonuses either

[dapper coral]

nope

iirc

[sleek wadi]

Not like it'd become a sudden game breaker if it got some boosts. Same with Coldheart Icicle, assuming no weird fuckery would turn damage boosts into additional max health taken on enemy hits.

[civic pond]

but there's no broken hero gun or bow

.,,,.

[radiant meadow]

coldheart does melee dmg

but it always does 1 damage

• the percent dmg

I don't know why golden gun is exempt

[civic pond]

I forgot does it do crits too?

[radiant meadow]

golden gun could be changed in a flash though

[sleek wadi]

It probably should, no reason for it not to scale off of everything.

[radiant meadow]

coldheart can't crit

[zealous ridge]

no

nooo

no broken hero items

living shards already cover that role

and that would just be massive bloat for no real reason

[queen sail]

That just adds more grinding for unnecessary thematic reasons

[tired haven]

Keep broken "not hero sword" for thorium tbh

[sleek wadi]

Taking one thing and upgrading it over and over again is also kind of melee's playthrough gimmick, hence why in vanilla they get the larger than usual crafting trees and broken hero sword.

[queen sail]

I had an issue with thorium doing the same thing because I kept getting bow fragments

[zealous ridge]

thorium removed it's broken hero items for a reason

theyre just broken hero shards now

[tired haven]

That's also true, I forgot

[pastel terrace]

._.

[dapper coral]

okay question: why on earth do ashes of calamity make a mage armor but no mage weapons

[zealous ridge]

they should tbh

they might be planned

[dapper coral]

that just seems a little funky to me

[pastel terrace]

Demik is asking the real questions

[sleek wadi]

That upgrading shit also carried over into calamity, they got like 7 swords or whatever they can take from pre-HM to endgame.

[pastel terrace]

But like seriously we need more non-melee love

[dapper coral]

im just goin through the crafting materials and im like, nani why is this so wacc

[tired haven]

Ashes of calamity make a grand total of 2 hardmode (2 postml) weps, no wonder some classes are missing

3 and 1, actually

(all 3 hm ones are memee)

[sleek wadi]

Ashes of Calamity probably see more overall use in, you guessed it, melee playthrough because Calamitas' Brew

[dry grotto]

Those fireballs during yharon's fight should disappear faster

[gusty geode]

Had an idea that's probably way too grand to be added but imma say it anyway

[pastel terrace]

Calamitas: Witch --> mage
Calamitas' Brew: Melee
???

[dapper coral]

confusion

[civic pond]

its basically the brimstone flame flask

[dapper coral]

[civic pond]

e

[sleek wadi]

Except it stacks with other flasks and comes with a neat acceleration boost. Movespeed is still a meme stat.

[gusty geode]

Redo every boss and event's drops so that, with the possible exception of the post-ML bosses, each one provides for only one or two classes
So depending on your class you'd be fighting a different lineup of bosses/events

[pastel terrace]

Dear god thats

No way

[tired haven]

Sounds terrible ngl

[pastel terrace]

^^

[strong minnow]

hey, im thinking of suggesting a jojo's reference for next april fools, should I?

[dapper coral]

idk thats probably a little extra

yes

[tired haven]

Queen bee existence is literally shaking and crying already

[pastel terrace]

Lets add DIO as post SCal

[sleek wadi]

No joke suggestions

[dapper coral]

lol

[sleek wadi]

Which that would qualify as

[dapper coral]

blighted lens is used for 3 things

an extra archery potion recipe (why)

eye of desolation

[sleek wadi]

Only exception to that rule is emote suggestions because emotes are inherently memes.

[frail mantle]

no joke sugmas and no sugmas whose only reason is "reference lol"

[dapper coral]

and magic quiver

again i feel like these should be used for more weapons

and not a RANGER ACCESSORY

when literally the whole point is that it builds towards the mage class

[pastel terrace]

Blighted Lens should make at least 3 mage things

[dapper coral]

exactly

[pastel terrace]

Someone go suggest that

[tired haven]

brb adding a recipe for vigil using those lens
/s

[dapper coral]

suggestion time

[tired haven]

Don't forget a sufficient reason

and as vague concept as possible

[dapper coral]

what do u think

[pastel terrace]

mage best class don't @ me

[dapper coral]

mage is coolest class

idk about best tho

[strong minnow]

@sleek wadi it would be for them to do for april fools, the whole day is a joke so kinda fits?

[gray nebula]

[pastel terrace]

I'm currently doing my first playthrough as a mage in revengance

Its really freaking fun

[gray nebula]

why are you asking to limit options for other classes

[civic pond]

wouldn't something have to replace blighted lens in those crafting recipes too

h

[gray nebula]

and blighted lenses arent even connected to calamitas they just happen to be crafted into her summon

[tired haven]

^

[dapper coral]

confoose

like

if we assume that blighted lenses are staying

then they should at least be crafting mage things

they could easily be gotten rid of tho, since its other two recipes are a little dodgy

[tired haven]

Um

and blighted lenses arent even connected to calamitas they just happen to be crafted into her summon

[pastel terrace]

The infernal rift could easily use some blighted lenses

It inflicts Brimstone Flames, which SCal and her bros inflict as well as soul slurpers

*not scal

regular cal

my bad

[crude geode]

Blighted lenses are used to craft a ranged potion because of consistency. Not having the option would lead to questions of why would you not be able to craft archery potions with blighted lenses instead of lenses

[dapper coral]

i mean, fair but blighted lenses are way rarer than regular lenses so why

u have a point hto

[crude geode]

They are rarer, but that doesn’t change the fact that it would be stupid to not be able to craft archery potions with them.

[dry grotto]

Btw. Prov IS a required boss for min% scal

[dapper coral]

i mean u can't make archery potions with black lenses

thats a discrepancy in the vanilla game

afaik

[tired haven]

They are also even rarer than both types, wasting one on a potion sounds like pain

[dry grotto]

Black lenses are to get

[crude geode]

^

[dapper coral]

fair enough

i guess that makes sense then

i would prefer if they were used in a mage potion instead tho

like calamitas brew or something like that

actually wait nvm thats not mage

im dumb

well some mage potion or something like that

[hearty yew]

@digital saddle Not sure what feedback you've already received, but the reason a lot of stuff doesn't boost stealth gen while standing still is that's what led to stealth strike spam, which we were explicitly trying to prevent

[pastel terrace]

If I recall from my normal mode playthrough, were there any signs that bosses could be re-fought for new loot?

[gray nebula]

why specifically mage stuff tho

blighted lenses arent connected to calamitas

[pastel terrace]

Cus I made it up to SCal and got no indication that Ravager and B-Elemental could be refought

[queen sail]

It tells you in the chat, doesn’t it

[jovial spire]

There's also no message for perfs or hive either

[pastel terrace]

Does it?

[jovial spire]

Well there is

[hallow hatch]

All bosses can be refougjy

That’s the norm isn’t it

[queen sail]

The calamitous beings have been inundated with bloodstone.

[jovial spire]

but it's kinda hard to draw them to Ravager and Brimmy

[hallow hatch]

Ohh

[jovial spire]

Ravager doesnt even make too much sence

[hallow hatch]

Yea that’s a thing

[jovial spire]

And you'd only know brimmy if you knew the lore

[pastel terrace]

Well what about the cysts? No indication for that

[jovial spire]

No but cysts are there from the start of the game

[queen sail]

Cysts spawn on their own tho

[jovial spire]

I meant like

After WoF when they drop Ichor/Cursed Flames

[dapper coral]

@gray nebula what i mean is, if blighted lenses are gonna be used to craft the summoning item as the key extra component, then they should also be used to make corresponding items

[pastel terrace]

And arent they supposed to be tripled in spawn rate post-brain/eater?

[gray nebula]

what

[dapper coral]

if theyre not then dont do that, but there should be some sort of mage correlation with calamitas

[jovial spire]

They've always seemed to show up as frequently at all points of progression to me

[gray nebula]

no because blighted lenses aren't connected to calamitas

they are lenses however = vision = aim = archery

[civic pond]

they're connected to blighted eyes :br:

[dapper coral]

ive conceded that point already

[gray nebula]

why should they craft mage stuff then

[sleek wadi]

Some kind of magic focuser or some shit

[dapper coral]

blighted lens is the only item in the eye of desolation that isnt used to craft a lot of other things, si what i mean

[tired haven]

One could also argue that ashes of calamity aren't ashes of calamitas

[pastel terrace]

Let us him live his mage dreams

[gray nebula]

ok well give it other recipes but not only mage ones

[dapper coral]

so as a good way to expand the crafting list for them it could a mage set

[gray nebula]

you litterally have a mage set post clone

[dapper coral]

(also for the record im a warrior lmao)

[pastel terrace]

Just give blighted lens more uses

[civic pond]

ashes of calamity (mod)

[gray nebula]

just give it more uses, not specifically mage

[dapper coral]

but the ashes of calamity dont make any mage weapons themselves

only the armor

which is silly

[pastel terrace]

Collect 9999 ashes of calamity, you get the code for the mod

[gray nebula]

because clone drops a magic weapon herself

[dapper coral]

that shouldnt stop more mage weapons tho

[jovial spire]

But once again why just mage weapons

[dapper coral]

bc calamitas is a literal witch

[gray nebula]

yeah stop being so focused on those

ashes of calamity are also barely used for anything, its just yet another upgrade material

it's not like they craft a weapon set

[dapper coral]

i admit that there is a stronger case for ashes of calamity to make more mage weps than the lenses

but like

i just find it strange that

the ashes make a mage set but no mage weps

[gray nebula]

that's just how it be

[jovial spire]

I mean it's not the actual calamitas, it's a clone, so why only magic stuff and not cloning related stuff

[gray nebula]

sometimes you get a set sometimes you get a weapon

[jovial spire]

You could make an equally fair point for that

[dapper coral]

i mean how does that even work tho lmao

[tired haven]

It's just like how spectre crafts mage armor but no weapons. Okay?

[gray nebula]

yeah

[queen sail]

Yeah instead we got painting tools

[gray nebula]

or like silva stuff that doesnt craft any weapons

[queen sail]

[dapper coral]

but then u get spectre from the dungeon which has a bunch of mage weapons

it would be fine if calamitas also dropped more mage weps

[gray nebula]

bubrubhhrh

[dapper coral]

im just saying that its not at the same tier

[tired haven]

siigh

[gray nebula]

seriously why are you so focused on mage weapons

[dapper coral]

its just an idea man

[tired haven]

or calamitas things

[dapper coral]

i just feel like its a discrepancy

[gray nebula]

what

[tired haven]

Yeah, both materials are underused
No, that won't mean 100% guarantee for more mage stuff

[gray nebula]

the true discrepancy is that she doesnt drop any rogue weapons

[tired haven]

(brother drops one tbf)

[queen sail]

I would kill to see some unique silva gear but we got darksun shit already so

[gray nebula]

yeag but it's not a direct cal drop

bro reviving a corpse when

[dapper coral]

i just want more mage weapons associated with a witch boss, thats all

its ok if she drops other weapons too

[gray nebula]

i mean like the hive mind/perfs, both a summoner focused boss (kinda) only drop one summoner weapon

[pastel terrace]

Y'know which class REALLY needs more love?

[tired haven]

mage

[pastel terrace]

Queen Bee

[tired haven]

queen bee class indeed

[pastel terrace]

Indeed

[jovial spire]

Class

Queen Bee

[dapper coral]

yes

[pastel terrace]

mm yes funi joke

[cobalt rose]

bee lord armor (bee lord armor)

[pastel terrace]

but honestly more love for Queen Bee

Her existence is nearly pointless

Bee Gun is her life support

[jovial spire]

Yeah for most classes she's just kinda ignorable

[cobalt rose]

not if youre summoner

[gray nebula]

iirc bee stuff is pretty strong tho

[tired haven]

But it's only for 3.5 classes

[jovial spire]

I feel like a decent chunk of her stuff is outclassed even for those tbh

[tired haven]

And there are like 3 0.5s tbh

[cobalt rose]

keep in mind that QB is supposed to be an extra boss

[pastel terrace]

King Bee when

You summon king bee but it just turns out to be a large normal bee mob

[tired haven]