i mean, still a bit stupid
#suggestions-discussion
dry grotto
but even if that wasn't the case, i'd say yharon's still a harder fight than scal
main issue being that scal is less overwhelming than yharon is in almost every way
ashen warren
EXACTLY YHARON IS HARDER
Thats why i think revives need to die
To make scal harder
wooden wedge
what if scal just disabled some revives during the fight then
dry grotto
that'd be a cool addition
ashen warren
Good idea
wooden wedge
instead of just outright killing all revives
ashen warren
Actually good idea
quick ice
Give Endothermic Energy and Nightmare Fuel a chance to drop from their respective events other minibosses after the Devourer of Gods has been defeated:
A Similar mechanic happens in the Solar Eclipse after Yharon has been defeated where Solar Eclipse enemies drop Darksun Fragments after Yharon Phase 1 and a Mothron have been defeated, and adding an effect to the Frost and Pumpkin Moons where any miniboss would drop these fragments (Even in a lower quantity) would be a nice QoL change to reduce the grinding required to get Nightmare Fuel and Endothermic Energy
Thoughts on this suggestion?
dry grotto
kran: it's not needed
wooden wedge
except for like once in multi
dry grotto
pumpkins and frost queens drop so much endothermic energy and nightmare fuel
dry grotto
and since they're insanely common during the events
it's practically unneccesary to pray for other mobs to drop it
bitter drift
muh, at least you can get endothermic energy and nightmare full in really vast quantities in a single night if your good enough
ashen warren
it seemed like they nerfed the spent fuel container
quick ice
alright
wooden wedge
also like if you two, thuns and pancake, want to you can just take what I said and make it a sugg
dry grotto
i'm bad with words
dry grotto
besides, gotta eat soon
ashen warren
lmao no point in suggesting if it doesnt get stars
wooden wedge
you haven't sugged anything yet
vivid frigate
Im not a fan of not being able to make weapon suggestions for two reasons:
I don’t think mage weapons are diverse enough, a lot of the weapons are just “shoot projectile xd”
Which is fine I guess but I want weapons specifically suited for different specific scenarios
Another thing I think melee gets a bit too much love in this mod specifically in hardmode and post moonlord
wooden wedge
but I mean if you really try your best and make the sugg really good it might get 120 stars
just give it a try
and see how it goes
vivid frigate
I’ll make a new material (life alloy, core of clam, essence cores and singularities specifically) and they all make a lot of melee weapons disproportionate too mage and other weapons
Especially the core of calamity
night cradle
you can actually make a weapon suggestion
it just can't be too specific, as in recipes, names, functions, etc.
vivid frigate
Maybe specific but its besides the point
Oh what about a suggestion based around making more weapons that include specific items in the recipe?
vague karma
we need a magic sword
hallow kraken
Spider armor should definitely be mentioned in that last sug
wooden wedge
making new weapons with specific materials?
covert siren
@dry grotto Nobody would use armageddon untill way after they can go into corruption and make one in a demon altar
unkempt bolt
i know the mod isn't and won't be balanced around DAD playthroughs, but having armageddon from the start would more easily facilitate that
plus using arma for free money against KS and DS
torpid salmon
I like the old sprite for the Elysian wings looks better than the new one
frail mantle
which one
torpid salmon
The one from like 2017
frail mantle
this one?
torpid salmon
Yes
frail mantle
torpid salmon
🤣
toxic kettle
those just look like budget solar wings
wooden wedge
that's a don't iirc
frail mantle
well suggesting to reuse the old one is a don't ye
torpid salmon
Ok
topaz bramble
Bruh
that sprite is eyeburn
The new elysian wings are at least ok
Granted I do think they need a redo but like
zealous ridge
eh, i dislike current elysian more than the old ones
tired haven
Tastes 
zealous ridge
but yeah, tastes
dry grotto
@covert siren they wouldn't have to make one if it was in the bag tho
also, like i said in the suggestion, why's every other craftable demon altar difficulty-increase in the bag
scenic crypt
spoiler?
wooden wedge
@peak oyster no chain sugging
unique vector
@peak oyster please do not make any posts in #suggestions-voting if you're chain suggesting or simply agreeing with a previous suggestion
thats what this channel is for
mighty knot
@peak oyster you can't just second a suggestion
peak oyster
I think I should just not use that channel anymore :/
unique vector
i will be promptly deleting your suggestion
sand umbra
mfw "fix minion AI" is a sugg
peak oyster
I'll go home
sand umbra
with very few specifics on what the fuck has to be fixed
wooden wedge
Remember to read the pins and that Suggs need to stand on their own
sand umbra
like
They are either overly aggressive or cant navigate the terrain.
that's cool!
what the fuck does that actually indicate needs to be changed
it's entirely too vague to stand without examples and suggestions on how to fix things
stable moss
I know it'll probably be a little while until Calamity makes the jump to 1.4 but isn't that update already improving the AI?
vague karma
yeah
sand umbra
that's not how summon AI works
sand umbra
summon AI is individually written for each minion type with Cal (probably) to ensure that each one can be edited easily
vague karma
the minions attack the spot
stable moss
Shit small brain moment
ancient crow
@vague karma you can already click an enemy with a summon wep to make summons target it
sand umbra
right-clicking an enemy with a summon wep targets them yes
unique vector
yeh im pretty sure a lot of minion AI in calamity is based off of an AI set made from scratch
sand umbra
(granted half the Calamity summon roster early-game can't respect or acknowledge targeting in my experience but w/e)
unique vector
might be wrong on that tho
fervent citrus
||Ava do i have to take your status seriously or am i being a dumbass?||
unique vector
anyway i still am out of the loop on a lot of the new things ever since sunken sea so i cant approve suggestions rn 
wym by that
fervent citrus
yea im already regretting my horrible choices
also, pinging and DMing is smth im wayyy too scared to do so lol
digital saddle
am i the only one who finds eleum about 100 times more annoying to farm than cinder
wooden wedge
there's only a couple enemys that drop essence of eleum and even with that it's still a chance of having them drop it
it's like essence of cinder except with cinder there's not a lot of other enemies that spawn in the sky
fervent citrus
hmm, i have an idea for a suggestion 
wooden wedge
so add the core of calamity to the life alloy recipe then?
night cradle
I feel like Life Alloys' recipe are pretty fine as of current
sand umbra
the bigger issue here is that Life Alloy is on the same tier as Scoria Bars and is used for a grand total of nothing particularly relevant on-tier
night cradle
I kinda get it that it's a mix of all of the bars, but for the sake of both Core of Calamity and this item being unique materials I feel they shouldn't be incorporated into each other
Would also make some recipes messy tbh
Also yeah Thomas, pretty much
vivid frigate
Adding yoyo bag too the elemental gauntlet is frequently suggested but what about a higher tier yoyo bag for post ml/late hardmode? Or two yoyobags for both stages
Or a third one for endgame
unique vector
can we not request to add old content back into the game
@pulsar notch
@pulsar notch please revise your suggestion or delete it, otherwise i will delete it myself
pulsar notch
Alright
unique vector
@ashen warren why would you delete yours?
night cradle
Don't delete it
I just said what I was thinking about the idea, others may find it actually good for the mod
lavish cloak
I have no idea how to hit return and make a paragraph on Desktop so i deleted my suggestion and ill just post it when im done typing it in another program. My suggestion was going to be "Give Amidias more purpose during Hardmode/Post ML instead of him selling only boss summons and early game weapons. "
unique vector
shift + return
lavish cloak
OH... thank you!
unique vector
np
stable moss
Obviously it probably shouldn't be called Bumblebirb but I don't hate the idea of weaker variants of the boss appearing in the jungle around that point in the game
unique vector
that has the same effect as making draconic swarmers randomly spawn
cedar jacinth
I forgot. How many stars for a suggestion to be approved?
tawny gyro
Add Sniper Scope to the Elemental Quiver recipe.
Reason: Currently, the Elemental Quiver uses only the Daedalus Emblem and the Magic Quiver. Because of this, EleQuiver inherits the bonus bow damage and arrow speed.
This seems unfair. The ultimate ranger accessory favors bows over other types of weapons. (yes, I know it's a quiver. honestly I believe that should be changed too). Adding the Sniper Scope would help smoothe this out, potentially also giving guns additional bullet speed or decreased spread. Furthermore, that'd also expand the EleQuiver crafting tree, which as of this moment is very lacking.
thoughts?
dry grotto
isn't sniper scope in daedalus's emblem tho
toxic kettle
your suggestion needs 120 stars to be sent to the dev server
doesn't mean it's been approved
it's been approved if there's a 👍 under it
tawny gyro
btw, when are annual sent-suggs reviews?
i've sent a sugg about infinite gel and rockets and it got sent, and I belive it hadn't been reviewed yet
also i see no objections or constructive criticism, sugg sent to #suggestions-voting
radiant meadow
sniper scope isn't used in daedalus anymore
but
it is used in halley's inferno
also piggy cage is done so y'all can shut up now
quick ice
time to suggest Flak Crab cage
civic pond
👍
gray nebula
bru
wooden wedge
wouldn't we have to add bags for like
gray nebula
sand umbra
let's be real, Calamity critter cages were the only sugg to ever be valid and now they've happened
wooden wedge
every miniboss then
sand umbra
...I think this is the single strangest sugg I've ever seen
why Biome Mimics
why a Treasure Bag
why not just make items have separate chances to drop rather than being picked one at a time (which you can very well do)
(in fact I might do that myself at some point)
why not do...basically anything else
there's no reason for an entity that is by no means a boss to have a Treasure Bag
dapper violet
make life alloy more challenging to obtain
Okay, but why?
What reason is there to make them more difficult to obtain?
quick ice
Adult Eidolon Wyrm doesn’t even have a treasure bag so ye, why Biome Mimics?
molten dune
minibosses dont have bags, so why should a regular enemy have them
dapper violet
No miniboss has a treasure bag
molten dune
like, they're just rare enemies
quick ice
I’m p sure Biome Mimics are mini-bosses, since their stats are close enough to the Ice Golem and Sand Babe
molten dune
they dont have a boss healthbar which legally defines them as not a miniboss
quick ice
It’s just that Minibosses are exclusively for events in Vanilla terraria
dapper violet
and they make the health thing pop up
digital saddle
life alloy already uses cores of calamity as well in most of its recipes
molten dune
oh they do?
digital saddle
theres no real need to double the requirement lol
molten dune
spew your thoughts onto the screen
rapid pivot
I feel something needs to be.. tweaked about Death Mode Astrum Deus.
rapid pivot
like, speed-wise
molten dune
faster, slower?
better / worse acceleration?
gooderer or not gooderer turning speed?
rapid pivot
here's the thing; on the one hand, he's so blindingly fast that unless you use asphalt and all the movement accessories in the world, you will die in three nanoseconds
but if you do use asphalt and just walk backwards with all those accessories, he will tip like a cow
molten dune
ah, more consistent speed
rapid pivot
no, not quite; speed remains the same
however; the problem is that it's way too hard to reach the speed you need to hit to fight it
but when you do reach that speed, he immediately dies
molten dune
...hm
rapid pivot
which i don't think is a good way to handle a death mode fight
molten dune
maybe his speed is reduced, but if you go over a certain speed he speeds up more
rapid pivot
like, yharon has certain mechanics like ethat
either way; I think the fight needs a dramatic rework
like, has anyone here fought death deus?
i feel like it's one of those things where you need to experience it to immediately get it
it's not that it's too hard, nor too easy, it's just.. weird and frustrating
quick ice
If you’re gonna suggest a Deus rework, point out the flaws you see and leave it at that
rapid pivot
A'ight.
Rework the Astrum Deus fight on higher difficulties.
❔ Astrum Deus is a very.. polarizing fight on death mode, and that is mostly owing to its speed. On the one hand, yes, death mode fights are supposed to be hard; and Deus is hard, because it's so absurdly fast that without proper prep, it is impossible to go faster than it, and unlike Yharon, it's not something you can really dodge by being agile because it wasn't designed with the idea that you could never go faster than it. However, all that changes if you actually do go through the trouble of getting all the accessories you need to be faster than it, and if you make an asphalt skybridge. If you do that, suddenly, Deus ceases to be hard in any way and tips like a cow, even on death mode. This doesn't really seem like what a fight on death mode should be; it's either impossible, or so mind-numbingly easy it shouldn't be mentioned. I'm not sure how the devs would fix it, but I still think it needs a solution.
TLDR; Astrum Deus needs to be reworked because a death mode fight shouldn't be either nigh impossible or a cakewalk by virtue of you building a really really long platform.
Thoughts?
quick ice
Formats good, reasoning looks good though I can’t confirm it’s true since I’ve never fought Deathmode Deus
Yeah, I’d say post it
rapid pivot
Just fought Deus as melee on death.
Impossible until you grab all the world's mobility accessories and run on asphalt, and start moving backwards; in which case you will never die.
queen delta
I can see how thats true
swift wadi
Deus is definitely a fight that's either very hard or extremely easy because you're literally just hitting him from out of his threat range
molten dune
maybe tone down the speed and make him fire projectiles
zealous ridge
deus needs a full on rework honestly
i feel at least, that he's kind of non-functional as a boss
and when i say that, i mean he's clunky
like... really clunky
the worm spam makes lag a big problem even on high end computers
and on top of that, it isn't really that interesting to dodge deus
rapid pivot
tbh my biggest problem is that fighting him is less a measure of skill, and more a measure of how many speed buffs you have
zealous ridge
absolutely
a lot of bosses suffer this problem in calamity
theyre movement vibe checks
rapid pivot
maybe, but it's certainly the most prominent with deus
zealous ridge
it is very prominent with deus, yes
rapid pivot
because it's not like with yharon or fishron, where the idea is already that you cannot ever go faster than them
zealous ridge
(we dont have to talk about the other bosses)
deus is, first and foremost, really fast if you let him burrow in the ground
and or be offscreen
so flying up is like the best way to dodge his worms
the main worm has stupid motion tracking which makes it really easy for you to be zero to deathed
the main worm needs way better ai
because right now it literally just follows you
i mean, AS did that too for a while
but now he has a circle movement ability, and his turning radius makes him take a while to get back on track with you
deus is far more mobile
and monolithic, it seems
far less dynamic
so, my wishlist for a better deus would be a more interesting main worm, less smol worm spam, less projectile spam, and drones made into a more interesting part of the fight
pretty much
honestly i should just make docs for every cal boss lmao
rapid pivot
plus there's the combination of two other little factors
- it's constantly chasing you, therefore you're screwed if you run out of places to run to
2.it leaves behind oodles of mines to screw you over if you cover the same area twice
rapid pivot
on the one hand, this is a royal pain to deal with if you're actually doing the fight without cheesing it
on the other, if you do cheese it, it's a total non-issue
zealous ridge
In fact the worm just following you makes things easier to cheese
At least. I’d think
Because he just lines himself up for super potent piercing weapons
dusty stirrup
Would be nice if they had coordinated attacks tbh
Instead of just trying to go directly towards you
dusty stirrup
I feel like the concept of multiple worm enemies at once is being gravely underused atm
nova crown
Like, the little worms doing formations or something?
dusty stirrup
Yes
rapid pivot
maybe a more interesting version of meatshielding than, y'know
'lol invincible sometimes'
swift wadi
The little worms connecting head to tail into a ball and spinning at you 
nova crown
My experience probably doesn't count too much as I'm still a noob to this mod (Going through my first expert mode run rn aaa), but this fight did look like one of the most exciting ones pre-moon lord and ended up being pure cheese or die
zealous ridge
horrid
rapid pivot
maybe the main worm could use the other worms as missiles
al; the death mode + rev adjustments to the fight basically are 'it goes faster and hits harder'
dusty stirrup
Astreum Deus could be made very interesting and one of the best fights in the mod if the AI got reworked properly, imo
nova crown
I'm not sure if it's intended, but I basically teleported back home to an arena I had there every time I summoned Deus just to align and separate the little worms from the big ones
dusty stirrup
They're very easy to cheese yes
dusty stirrup
Indeed
zealous ridge
mostly because the mod is so fkn big in scope that its hard to focus on the bosses that need it
sand umbra
yeah, there's a lot of untapped potential with Cal bosses
nova crown
On the other hand, even without being an AI coder, making "organized" worm movement seems hard
sand umbra
its hard to focus on the bosses that need it
nova crown
Like, worms by themselves are kind of individual
dusty stirrup
It'd be worth the pain
nova crown
Flying enemies, for example, seem far easier to make group patterns for
zealous ridge
like, yall know thorium? it isn't even really adding brand new bosses or progression paths anymore, its just improving on the older parts of the mod and making them new
sand umbra
I jest, of course, but there's something to be said about an overfocus on certain entities within Cal development process
nova crown
Worms are either dig n ram or wait for some condition to ram you
dusty stirrup
You could easily change the worm AI itself, they can still keep the following entities
nova crown
Making organized worm patterns seems like it would make the fight more fun though, if that could ever happen
dusty stirrup
I know fab likes worm enemies alot but I didn't see him use them for much yet (DoG is the closest one right now)
nova crown
But looking for the right patterns for it would be the real challenge
swift wadi
Deus is very cool, to be fair
But, once you're past the wow factor, you realize he's kinda lame
indigo fog
Is it just for Skeletron or other bosses too?
cyan lagoon
@bronze mauve that's on boss checklist's end
nova crown
This is probably an issue with some bosses
tawny garden
different bosses have different despawn ranges, yes
bronze mauve
wait
cyan lagoon
the message
cyan lagoon
but the despawning
nova crown
Astrum Deus for sure doesn't despawn no matter how far you travel
cyan lagoon
🤔
nova crown
Queen Bee doesn't either iirc
bronze mauve
he was almost dead too
cyan lagoon
yeah i don't understand the despawn thing
swift wadi
can we not use "gay" to describe something that's lame
cyan lagoon
i swore we fixed it in the previous update
tawny garden
skeletron short despawn range is vanilla iirc
zealous ridge
hello
about that deus thing earlier
permission to post a short doc i made about it? or nah?
hollow shell
Imagine pre-HM teleporting
zealous ridge
yeah amirite
bronze mauve
lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!
zealous ridge
idk i feel like you should get the impression that hes just going to despawn sometimes
is it consistent?
zealous ridge
alrighty
fair enough i suppose
it does seem like more of an oversight thing ig
but idk if you already approached bugs channel before this
hollow shell
Eh it's not really a bug
I imagine Skeletron just has a relatively short despawn distance cuz they weren't expecting you to teleport off-screen during the fight
zealous ridge
ye its not really a bug
nova crown
I guess, yeah
zealous ridge
but oversights go to bugs too, i thought
nova crown
But I mean... Doesn't Queen Bee literally charge through the map to get to you if you teleport away?
zealous ridge
ye
hollow shell
some bosses like Destroyer don't have any despawn distance
will follow you to the ends of the earth
zealous ridge
nova crown
Then try not teleporting during the last phase 🤔
wooden wedge
I mean teleporters aren't available pre HM
zealous ridge
its bed stuff
wooden wedge
so maybe there's a bug or an oversight with them
nova crown
Magic Mirror + setting bed
bronze mauve
its not a teleporter
nova crown
Budget pre-hardmode teleport system
bronze mauve
lol yeah
wooden wedge
oh I thought it was
bronze mauve
i was about to get pranked by his head spin so i teleported
zealous ridge
hey rove
did you see my msg about the doc i created
if i shan't post here that is okay
hollow shell
I didn't
What's the doc of
zealous ridge
just a lil thing abt the previous deus discussion
nova crown
Oh yeah that thing, what does the doc have in it? 👀
zealous ridge
its just a rough sketch thing, and if its better for another time that's cool
its like an outline for a potential rework
but rover is the Final Desider
tm
quick ice
hey Rover, sorry if you've already answered this multiple times but has it been decided for sure that your suggestion rework will happen?
hollow shell
Yeah it will happen and it's currently in the works
It's more bot-heavy so Amber's working on that
zealous ridge
also note, im not posting it in sugg
hollow shell
And uhhh ehhh
You can post it in this channel but depending on its specificity it may not be worth discussing too heavily
zealous ridge
lmao
ye its fine, i was just wondering if if anyone had anything else to say bout it
for those who dont want to read, basically its just kind of make deus more like mantis lords
but ye, i most likely wouldnt post this in any sort of sugg because 1. docs and 2. perhaps too specific
but the concept sounds nice to me
quick ice
suggesting specifics when it comes to large things is
zealous ridge
ye
hollow shell
You might be able to summarize this in a way that is suggestible
zealous ridge
oh yeah
hollow shell
and of course you need to provide reasons for why you think the fight should operate in this way
zealous ridge
i mean sure, its certainly rephrasable
and yeah, ofc reasonings
but i can collect those in this doc too
something like: Make deus worms more in-sync with the main worm, and give the main worm more interesting movement
stuff like that
hollow shell
Having the small worms spawn in batches throughout the fight is also a part of it
but that has been suggested before (and approved)
zealous ridge
ye
hence why i most likely wouldnt include that
i dont want to make the suggestion too big
quick ice
oc not
Otherwise people won't read it
quick ice
b'yeah, keep it short and sweet about the movement changes and I'd say it's a good idea
zealous ridge
this is more a collection of ideas than anything else
like... maybe i could include the doc as a supplement to the main suggestion
but that's not required or anything
unique vector
i wouldnt make a boss suggestion like that
zealous ridge
you mean with the phase outlines?
unique vector
even if they're just ideas for a rework, it doesnt really solve things because it can bring up its own issues
yeah
zealous ridge
yeah, i agree
theres far more to it than just asking it be changed to this or that
unique vector
its better to outline the issues you think the current mechanics have and then bring forth possible generalized solutions to them
instead of promoting a new idea outright
zealous ridge
ye, that's what i haven't formatted yet
for me its easier to make bigger ideas like that and reverse-engineer from there into something that the devs can digest without it being just dumb
byeah, the doc wouldn't be the suggestion's content, really
the actual sugg would be more generalized
big ideas are really easily misinterpreted
and thats why the more specific a sugg gets, the less likely that the devs will want to implement it, or even do it right if they wanted to implement it
you need to find happy mediums here to make it the most productive
gusty grail
@bronze mauve maybe dont cheese?
zealous ridge
potent veldt
I just dont feel like most bosses should despawn because of distancing
It's a weird detail, but it's also just as weird for someone like Skeletron to just leave because you went too far away
Especially when he doesn't even have a specific biome he demands you be in
toxic kettle
that's what you get for teleport cheese lol
lost agate
Either that or hydra thing
lost agate
On what
nocturne wolf
Devourer of gods i get up to 400k, on yahron phase one 250-300k dps
nocturne wolf
While my meele friend struggles to get 50k and my range friend gets roughly 150K
You dont have gear from other mods?
@lost agate Nope, just a mod which offers combined potions from vanilla and calamity, lite alchemist npcmod
lost agate
Well holy shit
hollow shell
In the public update?
lost agate
So did they change i frames and not check if it became op?
nocturne wolf
Also Spikecrag staff dropped from Ravager is way to strong for it being obtained so early
gray nebula
yeah
lost agate
Vroh
hallow kraken
isn’t staff of the mechworm literally the biggest meme in existence against yharon in a bad way
lost agate
Not mechworm, the hydra thing
(you should edit your sugg to be more clear btw naixor)
Actually if its already done, maybe dont bother
runic kite
how in the world is endo hydra good lul it feels like a worse sirius
lost agate
They changed it this update
ancient crow
endo hydra and gamma heart work the same way right?
lost agate
Fixed i frames, weapon had its power increased tenfold
Basicallly like 10 other weapons had this same thing happen so idk how that went unnoticed
nocturne wolf
Well i out damage ranged and meele classes as a summonor with no effort
Belladonna Spirit Staff is also way to strong , one of the first summonor weapons
gusty geode
Tbh I think they deserve to be too good
At least for a while
They've had basically nothing all this time
Weren't even taken too seriously until this latest update
I say let them have their moment being busted for a couple updates
bronze mauve
i was not cheesing skeletron i just like being alive
radiant meadow
I fixed i frames and nerfed the damage by like 70% ish
it's just still too strong for some reason
outer lantern
😳
bitter drift
blood stone doesn't have wings yet (n o t l i k e y o u n e e d i t)
civic pond
mm tracers
toxic kettle
Even tho I'm not entirely against it, I can certainly say people would not like that
Not being able to RoD during laser walls
indigo fog
It's not like RoD trivializes laser walls entirely. It still has a 10 second cooldown
I don't see this to be really necessary
silk scarab
Yeah, but it makes it way easier than it should be to avoid and considering it would only happen in death mode where it’s supposed to be hard I think it makes sense
dry latch
but prep is supposed to make things easy, otherwise we gotta nerf potions too. and the RoD is pretty fine as it is right now
sleek wadi
RoD makes basically every attack easier to dodge, there is a reason this thing has been the target for so many nerfs.
dry latch
but you can only use it once every 10 seconds
sleek wadi
...And also really hard to nerf while minimizing backlash because of how easy it makes dodging.
small talon
cant disagree with that
dry latch
@obtuse stirrup
sleek wadi
If it were up to me RoD would have never been usable during bossfights from the start, but I don't work at re-logic and making such a change in my own mod, if I had one, would be incredibly controversial.
obtuse stirrup
but crabbar dev thingy
hallow kraken
The only person who can decide if crabbar gets a dev item is crabbar
hollow shell
You're not allowed to suggest dev items for other people
sleek wadi
Also a don't
hollow shell
@elfin shadow Can you add a reason to your suggestion please
gusty geode
Tbh some bosses being able to inflict Chaos State would be a neat mechanic
carmine island
Boss rush config of permanent chaos state when
radiant meadow
CrabBar isn't even a dev
And permanent chaos state can be easily replicated by not using the associated items
ashen warren
that's not a great argument imo, the accessory curse can be replicated by just not using the last 2 slots by that measure
hallow kraken
the boss rush curses are huge memes
the dash curse can be replicated by disabling dash accessory visibility
karmic stone
What's the point of him being there if he's invisible 
hollow shell
@tidal wadi Rogue damage is lower on melee/rogue variant weapons because rogue equipment grants greater bonuses than melee equipment in those areas
Each class's DPS with those weapons is about the same
tidal wadi
Ahh, never played rogue before, thanks for clearing that up
hollow shell
yw
swift wadi
if you haven't played... nvm
tidal wadi
I plan on playing Rogue in my revengeance playthrough
wooden wedge
isn't grand dad a dedicated item
hollow shell
@pearl haven Specific item suggestion and meme suggestion
wooden wedge
and this seems specific
hollow shell
(no it's just an RIV)
wooden wedge
and no reason
hollow shell
This suggestion is very very not allowed
wooden wedge
@pearl haven reason when
hollow shell
(sorry iunno why I thought it referenced THE LORDE, I guess I got it confused with Grand Dad)
hollow idol
Mfw grandad already has a 7 on it
pearl haven
I dont mean the weapon stats
wooden wedge
no amount of reason can save this sugg
hollow shell
but yeah Grand Dad is already a meme reference to Grand Dad and features a "7" in the tooltip
wooden wedge
weapon stats isn't the only thing barring an SIS
pearl haven
yeah, ik
hollow shell
There's no need for this and also it breaks the SIS rule, very easily
wooden wedge
also the sprite
pearl haven
dafaq is SIS
wooden wedge
it has a 7 on it
pearl haven
IK
wooden wedge
specific item sugg
hollow shell
please
pearl haven
I see y'all are professional boomers
wooden wedge
I'm 15
hollow shell
nah
cobalt rose
pearl haven
not being able to take a joke
hollow shell
Joke suggestions have been disallowed for literally years at this point
pearl haven
really?
hollow shell
Yes
wooden wedge
yes
pearl haven
why not 8 Grand Son
wooden wedge
still a meme sugg
pearl haven
Dropped By a lunar pillar
cobalt rose
stop.
hollow shell
Ever since the initial sugg rework in, what, 2018?
The one that added Stars
pearl haven
9 G R A N D D A U G H T E R
wooden wedge
if you don't wanna stop we can just ping a mod
hollow shell
m
wooden wedge
and they can force you to stop
hollow shell
I'd prefer if you didn't
just
meme
wooden wedge
just take memes to the subreddit
pearl haven
Devourer Of Gods Has Awoken!
wooden wedge
@vocal grotto
hollow shell
Yeah the subreddit will accept your memes with open arms
pearl haven
@wooden wedge @hollow shell were slain...
rapid pivot
The 'SIS' rule?
hollow shell
specific item suggestion
rapid pivot
Ah.
swift wadi
this is, certainly, a bruh moment
pearl haven
Test 1: 2 people pinged mod due to small meme
pearl haven
I give calamity item suggests A big F
hollow shell
(well only one person pinged a mod)
cobalt rose
why are you not taking us seriously?
hollow shell
lol
crude geode
Prolly cuz he’s cringy and self centered af
hollow shell
I concur with Heartbeat
pearl haven
incorrect
hollow shell
This is a bruh moment
pearl haven
yall cant take one small joke
hollow shell
aight we can just drop the convo please
wooden wedge
this isn't the place for jokes and memes though
indigo fog
you were already told to stop
hollow shell
Joke suggs are disallowed (and SIS suggs are also disallowed)
so, they gone now
should be the end of the story.
pearl haven
Gentlemen, I give this place a rating of Salt and overreaction
swift wadi
Dom's been pinged 4 times today, 
hollow shell
Please read the rules before you post another suggestion, Haxor.
solemn flame
no.
digital saddle
solemn flame
yes
hollow shell
(and the proper reaction to somebody trying to defend meme suggs which have been banned for two years)
solemn flame
^
crude geode
Same here
calm temple
Am I the only one who calls the Brimstone Monsters Death Moons?
solemn flame
no
lost agate
Arent they craftable already
hollow shell
wh
hollow shell
welp, there go his messages
wooden wedge
so gl
swift wadi
I informed Brav of this, so might wanna ping him mayb
hollow shell
wew
wooden wedge
you should, because your being alive is at risk
wooden wedge
😔
swift wadi
pearl haven
🧂
hollow shell
Damn, mods be slackin
@zenith hazel
vocal grotto
Fuck, forgot the ping in here
zenith hazel
the guy just got warned by pixl
swift wadi
bruh look in gen talk rover
vocal grotto
Alright
swift wadi
hallow hatch
Bruh
rapid pivot
What did Haxor suggest, exactly?
wooden wedge
Meme sugg about unrelated things that you shouldnt worry about
rapid pivot
Ah.
wooden wedge
If you really want to see you can scroll up though
rapid pivot
His sugg got deleted.
Anyone else think that Shadowflame needs something to make it more.. i'unno, distinct?
Like, at this point, it's a relatively uncommon-ish 'lol basically worse cursed flames' thing.
sand umbra
.
holy fuck I just had
an idea
okay it's big brain time
what if Shadowflame mildly obstructed player visibility while active
or made the world a fair bit darker
rapid pivot
Yeah, but the Horror already does that.
ashen warren
unless you ultrabuffed the DoT at the same time there's no point
rapid pivot
tbh my issue with it is that like
sand umbra
because every other possible effect is done and better by some other debuff
rapid pivot
isn't there an argument to be made that spazamatasm is easier on death/rev by virtue of it not having cursed flames
ashen warren
higher DoT compared to CI does mean it's actually deadly to players
smaller hp pool and such
rapid pivot
eh, true, and I suppose players have way less DR then
but what about during the boss rush?
sand umbra
DoT debuff damage entirely bypasses defense and DR
ashen warren
opening you up to ret lazers
rapid pivot
making you more vulnerable to other attacks
sand umbra
Shadowflame is a hella deadly debuff last I checked
rapid pivot
It is when you fight twins for the first time, but on the boss rush?
When DR is much higher?
ashen warren
DoTs bypassing defence and DR are exactly why I think they should play around with making them sources of damage and such
rip my dot rework suggestion
byeah shadowflame is deadly to players
if it blinded enemies that might be neat
hollow shell
Shadowflame DoT is just as powerful as God Slayer Inferno, apparently
ashen warren
make them not see the player so well
hollow shell
(minus the defense reduction)
rapid pivot
still; think there's an argument to be made that Twins should have cursed flames in the boss rush rather than shadowflame?
or, hell, maybe both
ashen warren
aggro reduction I 'spose
sand umbra
I think there's an argument to be made that there was no necessity to change the cursed flames attack in the first place
but any suggestions to make bosses different in any fashion generally never happens so whatever
ashen warren
so mostly a mp thing
sand umbra
¯_(ツ)_/¯
ashen warren
it makes summoner have more thematic and actual strength with the curse thing though
hollow shell
Well reduced aggro does have an effect in single player
.. for some enemies
Fighter AI enemies will ignore you if it's low enough
ashen warren
since if you say, have a melee player and a summon player, the shadowflame pulls aggro off the summoner and the melee player will be using things that pull aggro
but tanking is heavily disincentivised anyway so jdhdth
hollow shell
btw @elfin shadow I pinged you earlier, just wanna make sure you saw it
sand umbra
tanking is for people that wanna have fun
and Calamity is strictly a no fun allowed zone
hollow shell
I mean
rapid pivot
Make Spasmatizm have Cursed Flames, rather than Shadowflame, attacks during the Boss Rush.
❔ When you fight the Twins the first time, Shadowflame's effects are way more notable than Cursed Flames. However, by the time you're fighting in the boss rush, you have something you didn't have the first time around; DR. As Cursed Flames heavily debuffs DR, this change would open you up to the other twin's attacks, which are going to hit harder than a simple -30/sec debuff.
hollow shell
Tanking is disincentivized cuz it's an inherently less skillful strat than dodging
sand umbra
oh, is that why Rage is useless and solely exists to give a boost to an effective nonexistent subcategory of melee weapons?
hollow shell
Kinda
Cuz like who gets hit enough to max it out without dying
sand umbra
is that why endgame opponents can still 3- or 4-shot you with maximum tank moments
sleek wadi
It is possible to build rage without dying as a typical build... AGAINST YHARON 2
sand umbra
is that why Calamity leans so heavily towards a glass cannon lifestyle that it physically hurts to try to balance with anything else in mind
hollow shell
Yes?
sleek wadi
...Although if there was somehow a way to make tanking more skillful that'd be great.
outer lantern
🥺
sleek wadi
Actually the way invuln frames used to be handled might have allowed for slightly more skillful tanking. Current invuln frames only apply to a specific attack IIRC, but if they were general then intentionally taking weaker hits to survive bigger ones could have been a legitimate thing.
dry latch
what about something like the brand of the inferno? give melee something else to do than just slashing lol
rapid pivot
tbh i don't think this is the place for a rant
sand umbra
it's having an actual strategy when faced with a situation of unavoidable damage
that in fact does not count as dodging
outer lantern
Dodging and being cool is the fun part
sleek wadi
idk, planting my ass in the ground and just muscling through shit is pretty fun
sleek wadi
You're talking to the dude who always goes straight for the tanking/heavyweight character/strat when possible, I find it a whole lot more appealing that being mr. dodgey flashy ninja man
hollow shell
(pfp checks out)
sleek wadi
Although, giving Brand of the Inferno's shield effect to say, an accessory sounds real cool.
wooden wedge
The only time tanks don't die is when it's add
(who also has a guide on tanking in calamity)
sleek wadi
With some way to make it exclusive to dashes, or at least limit dashes anyway. Can't have players becoming too hard to kill if they had both a shield and dash. Now the timing comes from blocking instead of smashing A/D on reflex.
dry latch
but shield bash is nice too
hollow shell
m
I was thinking that part of the problem with allowing tanking in some capacity is preventing people from having both tank capabilities and dodge capabilities
because then it gets too easy
Being able to avoid all of the hits you'd normally avoid, except the punishment is less severe
sleek wadi
Yeah I was thinking if Brand of the Inferno's shielding became an accessory it'd have to somehow be exclusive with typical dashes.
trim raptor
Is there any reason why the fathom swarmer armor, which is a direct upgrade to spider armor, has 1 less minion slot?
If not then that's definitely a suggestion worth making
indigo fog
I'm pretty sure +52% damage and +2 minion slots is better than +28% damage and +3 slots
frail mantle
^
trim raptor
Fair 'nuff
unkempt bolt
plus over double defense
trim raptor
I've never played summoner before now and just saw the two on the wiki (almost to that stage in my current run).
hollow shell
Don't forget all the aquatic buffs
trim raptor
👌
wise roost
Do you guys think that teleporters should work when the temple door is opened? I mean the jungle temple is accessible early hardmode. I think the mechanics in vanilla terraria where teleporters don't work near lizhard blocks is kinda useless in the calamity.
hollow shell
I agree, Sonarchee. atm it's just assigned to Plantera, right?
wise roost
yes
narrow panther
re: armyidiot’s nerfed teleporters, maybe a 2-3 second period of staying completely still while the magic mirror sound plays before the tele works or would it need to be longer than that? I feel like implementation would be hell to mess with a vanilla block’s mechanics
granite sphinx
alright, i didnt know
hollow shell
I feel like we ought to get more creative if we are to do teleporter nerfs
Because yes, we did disable them for endgame bosses in the past and undisabled them to allow greater freedom
And if you wanna compare to the Nurse, she used to be (practically) disabled in Rev too, but now that's been replaced with an extreme price bump
crude geode
An idea would be to not entirely disable them, but to have them give some kind of debuff if you activate them while moving?
granite sphinx
maybe just disable pressure plates so its not an automatic activation
wise roost
hmm ive been thinking about potion stacking lately
like drinking potions of the same type will just increase the duration instead of reset it
is it a good idea? or is it game breaking?
subtle oracle
Will there be exceptions with this? Because such an idea would be broken
wise roost
i mean if you die it will all be lost anyways
frail mantle
you mean like
chugging two two-minute potions in a row gives you the effect for four minutes
wise roost
yeah
subtle oracle
Duration huh? I thought you're talking about the buff itself Sonar
wise roost
yeah duration
granite sphinx
seems interesting but should maybe have caps for each potion
wise roost
yeah i guess
granite sphinx
just so you cant stack like 20 of the same kind and not worry about it for like 6 hours
granted, still the threat of death, but playing cautiously is enough to save that
wise roost
yeah but you could stack so that you won't have to worry about drinking a potion midfight in SCal
frail mantle
yea stacking 20 potions would basically just be like rebuffing every time the buff runs out
granite sphinx
true
wise roost
idk it was just that mechanic of potions kinda drew me away from potions a bit, I use them but not really for boss fights cuz i know that I will run out mid fight, but when I use the B key some of the potions still have a long way to run out and some of the potions already ran out.
granite sphinx
yeah i guess that is most peoples biggest gripe about potions
differing lengths so when you rebuff a bunch of potions get wasted or you have to wait for the rest to die out to not waste them
wise roost
also totality breakers is feels weaker than spent fuel container which doesn't make any sense since spent fuel container is used to craft totality breakers
hollow shell
Spent Fuel Container just got massively nerfed this update iirc
wise roost
really? I updated it and couldn't tell the difference, and it still feels weaker than totality breakers. But that might just be me
hollow shell
hm
ashen warren
the spent fuel container was unbalanced
but good thing it was nerfed
it was dealing a damage per single tick in which terraria has 60 tps (ticks per second)
hollow idol
I mean considering half of the stuff said in cal talk is stuff that #help-advice-read-pins was made for
ancient crow
so spent fuel has been nerfed down to acceptable levels?
have they fixed entropy's vigil yet?
tepid root
yes
digital saddle
I think polter needs a massive buff
The boss is nothing more than an arena check imo
And if you have a decent arena, he's a billion times easier than Providence or yharon or old duke
placid moth
elder mist
that's what it's meant to be
provi, dog, yharon and scal on-tier should be the hardest bosses in postml
elder mist
so do every boss that i listed
digital saddle
So what makes polter different if they all have a lot of content behind them?
dry grotto
Polter is optional
But u need to kill dog/yharon/prov to get to scal
Also, like u said, it's an arena build type of boss. Like wof
Atleast he's still somewhat difficult (do agree tho he needs to fire more projectiles imo)
frail mantle
you don't need anything from Prov to fight SCal iirc
dry grotto
yes
frail mantle
yes to what
tepid root
yes
frail mantle
oh ok
dry grotto
u need to
how else u going to get phase 2 of yharon?
u need uelibloom to craft the ring, for uelibloom u need to kill providence
people always seem to forget that
shell grotto
Providence optional
frail mantle
DSR isn't necessary
shell grotto
Who?
frail mantle
dark sun ring
shell grotto
Thanks
dry grotto
then yeh i guess that would make prov optional if u don't need the ring for yharon to get to p2
toxic kettle
you just need to kill a Mothron in a Solar Eclipse after "defeating" Yharon P1
dry grotto
is there no other way? cause if so, then i'd say plantera is also a must for the min %
🤔
frail mantle
if you need Ecto for Cores you can just fight Ravager but outside of that afaik there's no way to get Ectoplasm
frail mantle
wiki doesn't say anything about Plantera being mandatory for Phantoplasm though
dry grotto
the thing is
u need to kill plantera for the dungeon to change
and maybe it's a mistake with the coding for phantoplasm, but the spirits don't spawn unless it's an empowered dungeon
leaving those 2 super rare enemies to be the only way to get phantoplasm
dry grotto
the phantom spirits
the ones that drop phantoplasm in a normal dungeon setting
and since u can't get phantoplasm, u can't make auric bars
no auric bars, no scal
u can see for yourself if u don't believe me
elder mist
doesnt polter still spawn the spirits that drop phantoplasm
frail mantle
wiki says they only spawn post-ML from strong enemies
elder mist
even if plantera isn't killed
toxic kettle
why would you need Polter
elder mist
possible? possible. min%
toxic kettle
they spawn often enough in the jungle
elder mist
or maybe don't have a crapload of mods so they can spawn 
frail mantle
dungeon spirits spawn from enemies with over 100 health, which is every Dungeon enemy in Expert and above, and the way wiki states it Phantom Spirits seem to spawn the same way
dry grotto
dungeon spirits only spawn post plantera tho
even if enemies have more than 100 health
frail mantle
yes but we're not talking about Dungeon Spirits
dry grotto
seems like phantom spirits and dungeon spirits inherit the same rules tho
leon,, again, like i said, if u don't believe me, test it out yourself
teal ibex
low% is all theoretical anyway, i don't think anybody's made huge progress on an actual run
teal ibex
well then you're basically done lol
dry grotto
ye
i'm still thinking 'bout the route tho
since i can't fight providence
so i'm thinking which bosses to fight first
frail mantle
Oof did a low% run and he didn't have to fight Plant
teal ibex
people have killed dog with last prism before
from dog you can use executioner's on yharon and then you're basically good to go
dry grotto
he probably farmed those mobs that do drop phanto, leon
but that doesn't change what i'm saying that their spawn rate should be increased
digital saddle
yes but in yharon low% you have to fight him with lunar gear
dry grotto
like the only 2 optional bosses seem to be the profaned guardians and providence
true
frail mantle
just checked with Dom and he can confirm that Plantera isn't necessary for Phantom Spirits spawning
dry grotto
i'm doing scal since i don't have the sanity to do a 200% hp yharon
well they don't spawn for me leon
frail mantle
no clue why that happens but the code for the Spirits say they don't require Plant dead
vocal grotto
Just because they don't spawn for you doesn't mean that they can't spawn at all
tepid root
@tawdry parrot thats a dont
dry grotto
have u tested it tho?
vocal grotto
I don't fucking need to
dry grotto
i'll check one more time myself
vocal grotto
It's in the source code
dry grotto
i'll even use war potion
frail mantle
you're asking a guy that is looking at the source code, the thing that decides the way the spirits spawn, if he's tested it
vocal grotto
The requires are, as follows: The enemy killed must be in the dungeon, the ML must be killed, the enemy cannot be a phantom/dungeon spirit, and it must be able to drop coins (likely as a measure to make sure passive enemies don't spawn spirits), and it must have > 1000 HP
dry grotto
i'm still going to test it
i like to see things for myself
instead of trusting others blindly
digital saddle
vocal grotto
Blindly?
if (npc.lifeMax > 1000 && npc.type != 288 &&
npc.type != ModContent.NPCType<PhantomSpirit>() &&
npc.type != ModContent.NPCType<PhantomSpiritS>() &&
npc.type != ModContent.NPCType<PhantomSpiritM>() &&
npc.type != ModContent.NPCType<PhantomSpiritL>() &&
npc.value > 0f && npc.HasPlayerTarget &&
NPC.downedMoonlord &&
Main.player[npc.target].ZoneDungeon)
{
int maxValue = Main.expertMode ? 4 : 6;
if (Main.rand.NextBool(maxValue) && Main.wallDungeon[Main.tile[(int)npc.Center.X / 16, (int)npc.Center.Y / 16].wall])
{
int randomType = Main.rand.Next(4);
switch (randomType)
{
case 0:
randomType = ModContent.NPCType<PhantomSpirit>();
break;
case 1:
randomType = ModContent.NPCType<PhantomSpiritS>();
break;
case 2:
randomType = ModContent.NPCType<PhantomSpiritM>();
break;
case 3:
randomType = ModContent.NPCType<PhantomSpiritL>();
break;
default:
break;
}
NPC.NewNPC((int)npc.Center.X, (int)npc.Center.Y, randomType, 0, 0f, 0f, 0f, 0f, 255);
}
}
you're aware you're talking to a dev, right
dry grotto
i am fully aware leon
but like i said, i'd like to SEE it for myself, not just from source
but within my game itself
warped tide
and and and and and
frail mantle
you know what, i'm just gonna leave this convo before i fucking implode, this is clearly not going anywhere
warped tide
i know why the code is written like that but still loool
vocal grotto
I'd prefer a list for the spirits be made
But critiquing the code isn't he point here
warped tide
yeah yeah i know ;p
digital saddle
i always forget how those x ? y : z things work
have to think about it for a minute
dry grotto
i wasn't even critiquing the code
vocal grotto
if x, return y, otherwise return z
dry grotto
i wasn't even critiquing the code
vocal grotto
I'm not referring to you, Bee
warped tide
and and and and and
@warped tide
dry grotto
anyway
i tested it and seems like i was just unlucky
so ye, i do am sorry for causing the whole convo to escalate
warped tide
as long as you're owning up :)
dry grotto
anyway, looking at the code i can see that u can only get phantoplasm through eidolists
might've been why i had bad luck
vocal grotto
vocal grotto
if (NPC.downedMoonlord)
{
if (CalamityMod.dungeonEnemyBuffList.Contains(npc.type))
{
npc.lifeMax = (int)(npc.lifeMax * 2.5);
npc.damage += 150;
npc.life = npc.lifeMax;
npc.defDamage = npc.damage;
}
}
still bolt
Guys do you have any tips for revengerance Skeletron?
dry grotto
circle around him
still bolt
I dont do enough damage
still bolt
Flare Bolt
zenith hazel
not the right channel for this
still bolt
What is the channel?
dry grotto
still bolt
Ty
dry grotto
any plans to buff swordsplosion btw?
dry grotto
ty
cosmic jungle
frail mantle
distant gyro
(nerf coming btw*)
distant gyro
watch me
frail mantle
if a tester tells you something will be buffed/nerfed, i can tell you with absolute certainty that it is, in fact, getting buffed/nerfed
frail mantle
carmine island
rapid pivot
The dev and the tester must then play a game of rock paper scissors to determine who is lying.
distant gyro
(no it's not getting a nerf either, coming from a tester)
i was just pulling a funny
vocal grotto
(A tester can't change the numbers, only the devs can 😎)
But anyway. I'll stop before the memes get too out of hand
dry grotto
well it should get a buff if u ask me, the damage it deals is already insanely low
3k dps vs doggo against mirror blade's 15K
cosmic jungle
why are you testing swordsplosion against doggo