and nobody's going to question that
#suggestions-discussion
dry grotto
digital saddle
summoner can get like 200k dps against yharon
tepid root
i am questioning it but im not gonna go any further in this
digital saddle
its gross
dry grotto
now it can
not before
like, yharon staff summons can't even touch yharon if he's teleporting
atleast now u have viable options for that phase
digital saddle
statis void sash best summon
dry grotto
make terrarian great again when
hallow kraken
Can 1 person just star my wulfrum pole sug
radiant meadow
ashen warren
search is broke, can't find it
tepid root
ashen warren
lole
tepid root
ok epic
hallow kraken
yes
tepid root
what, what if i unstar it tho
hallow kraken
If you do I will die
toxic kettle
goblins are pre-boss, Acid rain is post-EoC
gray nebula
what is that reasoning 
fervent citrus
better than no reasoning 
i still remember that one sugg about having a blue eye during adrenaline 
weak field
Terraria, but only adrenaline glows
You want torches? You want flares? We have adrenalines
Take it or leave it
dry latch
goblins are only pre boss if ya aim for it. normally you get it after boc/eow
that's what the new people do
weak field
Goblins are pre boss as goblin scouts summon pre-boss
shell lynx
Would it be cool and good to suggest that having a banner nearby would cause summons to attack normally neutral enemies?
tawny gyro
hmm
fervent citrus
Make vanilla and calamity music boxes craftable
Reason: For those collectors out there like me who like getting every banner, trophy, mask, vanity set or music boxes always faces the prob of getting music boxes for all soundtracks, so far the only way of doing it is by having an empty music box in an accessory slot and waiting for it to record the current playing theme. The problem here is that it also includes boss fights, and the chance of the music box recording the theme can be really low.
Solution: perhaps make music boxes craftable, using materials and blocks of the fitting theme, other ways to fix this are letting the bosses drop their respective music boxes at a certain chance, or just having an NPC sell them no chance of that so whatever.'
tawny gyro
ngl that does sound cool and good
fervent citrus
thoughts? :]
tawny gyro
eh, idk, there's already mods that do this, like alchemist npc
and they do sell calamity boxes too
fervent citrus
yeah but some people might not want to use other mods sooo 
weak field
Well I don't particularly care about music boxes but this seems like a good idea
sand umbra
okay so here's some cool bug fact's:
the chance for a music box to record is 1/10800 per tick
dry latch
goblin battle standards aren't useable until you break an orb/heart tho.
fervent citrus
huh
fervent citrus
i remembere fighting BoC for 20 mins without success
weak field
That's just pure bad luck
fervent citrus
and im sure everything was working
am i that unlucky ;-;
well, imma post the sugg anyway and see how badly things go
@ spider pee pee you gotta add more reasoning than that afaik 
weak field
Or use potion of omniscience
shell lynx
Make it so that when a banner is nearby, summons will automatically attack normally neutral mobs.
It can be really annoying to have to hit certain mobs with a different weapon to get your summons to attack them. Sometimes you get mauled because you didn't notice them in time. I feel like having summons be aggressive to things like Trashers when there's a banner around would make exploring certain areas much more pleasant for summoner.
Feedback is appreciated
fervent citrus
hmm, seems good
shell lynx
hmm
I would have suggested a special banner but I think that falls under specific item
sand umbra
I believe Ben was fixing a few of the biggest offenders for next update?
tired haven
It kinda does fall under sis.. and if you say "an item to encourage summons attack everything", then classless guns exist
sand umbra
allowing summons to target Ghost Bells, for example
tired haven
Maybe, I don't recall that
sand umbra
I know Ghost Bells are the worst of it
they're more or less passive even after being struck because of how Sunken Sea enemies work
shell lynx
I know there are a good few abyss enemies summons have trouble with
fervent citrus
sand umbra
assertion: if an entity is targeted, regardless of whether or not it is a critter/passive enemy, it should be attacked
fervent citrus
when is it coming btw?
shell lynx
someday
tired haven
Gossips say on the next week
fervent citrus
imma join
gray nebula
haha imagine if there was a relatively early game method of aggroing neutral mobs in the next update already
weak field
Maybe throwing bricks at them
tepid root
early game active summoner weapon?(???)
wooden wedge
no
tepid root
stuff like igneous exhalation and borealis bomber
tepid root
i was responding to what iban said
weak field
We need to have one
gray nebula
vivid frigate
To continue off my suggestion to nerf planetoids
I spent my first day in terraria like this - Granted I did have the worldgen preview mod but don't you think this would all be possible with just towering in a location relatively close to spawn and bridging out?
Now I found a planetoid full of gold, considering the mining boost from the armor + the gold pickaxe, don't you think that speeds up my early game a little too much?
I am pretty happy i'm able to find this with ease this early but I don't think it's right
and understandably I could just choose not to go to the planetoids but that doesn't justify it's reason to have absolute fuck ton of ores
digital saddle
What do you guys think of making frost armor work for rogues?
rogue lacks a pre hm boss armor set
rapid pivot
tbh, here's the thing; imo, the whole 'mining ore' aspect of terraria is really really boring
vivid frigate
for a lot of people yeah sure
I incorporate mining with treasure hunting and it's pretty fun
Calamity already has an option to increase mining speed by 25% too all pickaxes, shouldn't that be enough
rapid pivot
vanilla has that option; the mining potion
toxic kettle
isn't there a mining speed config
wooden wedge
@vagrant edge thing is, goblin army can be fought at any point in the game, acid rain is only post EoC
also I don't think 2 invasion events at the same time would be possible because it's terrarai
also I don't think "weird progression" is a really good reason
vagrant edge
I know, that’s what I’m talking about, it makes progression feel awkward, because usually people don’t fight the goblins before EoC and I don’t like how you have to fight one event just so you can fight another
When post EoC acid rain doesn’t really add to progression that much
wooden wedge
I mean, the goblins are only limited by what the player wants. They're not locked by a boss
if they want to fight the goblins pre EoC they can just do that
vagrant edge
They are locked to the corruption orbs witch are a challenge to break before EoC
Possible, but challenging
wooden wedge
not really if the player starts with bombs
vagrant edge
The mobs are not the easiest before EoC
I was just suggesting start the Acid rain after the goblin army and the EoC
Have been defeated
wooden wedge
and what changes right after EoC that makes the goblins easier to deal with?
vagrant edge
You can make much better weapons with the little bit of corruption bars
wooden wedge
aren't those weapons kinda just bad though
toxic kettle
breaking a Shadow Orb/Crimson Heart pre-EoC is pretty easy tbh
go into a chasm with an Umbrella/Lucky Horseshoe, throw a few bombs and mirror back home
and then wait for the goblins
wooden wedge
the minimum for chasm diving is rope
or just terrain gen
because the crimson one is easy to get into and the corruption ones can be jumped into if they have water
toxic kettle
too bad you don't know which ones have water and which ones don't prior to jumping in 
nova crown
You can always just jump and pray to not die while in the corruption (Or yeah, lucky horseshoe/ropes), but the crimson is quite easy to just get in and steal the loot from the hearts
rapid pivot
but on the other hand, let's be real here
the crimson rod is a weapon you're gonna use if you're farming
nova crown
Or fighting some mech worm
toxic kettle
Crimson Rod is a weapon I immediately put into my chests and never look at again 
zealous ridge
bruh tf is this remove gss stuff
honestly, hes not an amazing fight
but its an additional source of forbidden fragments, and a source of some good post-plant items
if there was one thing id change, it would be to make his spawn rate less frequent because him spawning from sand sharks is annoying sometimes
nova crown
Just two things about the Axe of purity (Putting it here insteaed of #suggestions-voting for now because I'm not sure if doing both at the same time or as separate messages or a)
-
Trying to cleanse the Hallow will bring disappointing results, it should probably be able to cleanse both the hallow AND the evil biomes rather than just the evil, it's the axe of purity after all!
-
Hitbox. The end of the video should talk by itself. (Not talking about nerfing the range, but maybe changing the animation a bit to actually portray where the hitbox lands?)
nova crown
Wait-
radiant meadow
axe of purity just uses the purification powder projectile
use vile/vicious powder to remove the hallow
nova crown
Guess I was too used to the clentaminator then
So it keeps the original powder's hitbox and just makes it deal damage? That should explain the hitbox thing as well
radiant meadow
something like that, ye
bitter drift
@nova crown why should you even want to cleanse the hallow?
hybrid fjord
The hallow gets pretty annoying
tired haven
we need vile greataxe now
bitter drift
but what is the reason? it is not harmful, (except if you are in post ml)
wooden wedge
the reason is that they don't want it
hybrid fjord
It can intrude on the original biome
wooden wedge
that's the whole thing adir
dry grotto
Defiled Axe
hybrid fjord
Ever had a hallowed underground desert? Not fun
nova crown
Don't really want to clean the hallow for now, I was just surprised to see how it wasn't affected with it
bitter drift
dumb ass desert spirits
hybrid fjord
Just because corrupted underground desert is worse doesn’t mean hallowed is good
They’re both bad in their own right
bitter drift
but why do you live in the underground desert in the first place, by the time you got to hard mode you don't have anything useful there
ashen warren
shards technically
ashen warren
but you can farm those on surface so /shrug
bitter drift
ya
karmic stone
"My silva invuln ends before the 10 seconds help"
Also why is it "bad" exactly
I mean you see the tooltips because you want to see the tooltips they won't annoy you anywhere else 
And it's never long enough to outright want to not read it unless you're incredibly lazy
zealous ridge
really, i feel the problem is that the setbonuses have to be as long as they are
but, we really can't change how that works because the devs seem set on it
karmic stone
Half of that is the universal Rogue tooltip that you should already know everything about
digital saddle
i dont think the universal rogue tooltip should be a thing either
just say how much stealth it grants
and players can figure out exactly what that entails on their own
or by using the wiki
zealous ridge
what i dont understand is that this all has to be packed into the set bonus already
like, why can't the healing leaf orbs effect be on all the helmets instead?
i don't think it would break anything
weak field
It will break balance
zealous ridge
how so, then?
zealous ridge
what is so broken about that?
digital saddle
maybe they can have the stealth explaination on early rogue armors
so like, snow ruffian, obsidian, gladiator, wulfrum, victide
and not later ones
weak field
That saves you like 3/4 resource
digital saddle
go ahead and mix and match sets lategame
karmic stone
Byea besides that it would be neat for stuff like that to be moved to individual pieces like you said
digital saddle
lmk how it goes
zealous ridge
its 9/5
hollow shell
I don't think the details about rogue should only be described on the wiki
but
I don't know where rogue info would be explained
because I do think it's redundant to have it in literally every rogue armor tooltip
hollow shell
Maybe.
zealous ridge
"rogue stealth builds when not attacking and slower when moving"
weak field
Stealth mechanic is a critical part of the said class, thus the effect should be a toggleable feature in the config which defaults to true
karmic stone
o
zealous ridge
actually, its 10/4 because cold protection is irrelevant
weak field
Is it?
weak field
Cold protection is also critical in death mode
zealous ridge
anyways, thats not really relevant
(it displays in all modes because why not)
and also, rogue stealth information could be put in other places, honestly
hollow shell
btw @vagrant edge I saw you talking here earlier but could you elaborate in your suggestion about why Acid Rain before Goblin Army "feels weird"?
zealous ridge
maybe a lil bandit's note you find early game, and when you open it theres a little text box that talks about how stealth works, written from the perspective of a young bandit trying to remember the basics of stealth
hollow shell
Sounds good
karmic stone
That sounds neat
karmic stone
Guide finds it on the ground and hands it over just like that
zealous ridge
ye
could be a drop from wood chests and crates, too
maybe more common than usual, and it can appear alongside other loot
heck, little microstructure stuff too
find a lil bandits tent and find the note in there
hollow shell
m
I'm always worried about worldgen
zealous ridge
oh yeah im sure its not easy lmao
but hey, just ideas
im sure the playerbase wouldn't be opposed to microstructures
its just a matter of doing it and making it not terrible worldgen-wise
anyways, good to see you back rober
maybe probably
and i want to bring up something that bothers me about one of the shrine items
unkempt bolt
yeah wb rover
zealous ridge
so unstable prism
is like, literally crietz but calamified
and im wondering if you guys have any input on how to change it to not be that
hollow shell
Wasn't that Crietz rework somewhat recent?
zealous ridge
a year before unstable prism, i checked
hollow shell
oh it was late 2018
Recent in the grand scheme of Thorium but I guess not that recent
was about half a year
zealous ridge
alright, i kind of just saw the years and said, "oh yeah prism was later"
but point is, i no likey
even as a concept, it isnt even that interesting, i feel
hollow shell
I don't think making something less similar to Thorium is a very solid argument
You'd prolly have to think of something additional
zealous ridge
yeah i mean that's not all that's wrong with it, ofc
hollow shell
or rather
something to replace that argument entirely
zealous ridge
well, theres a few things
vagrant edge
Rover, so many good items need the tinkers work station and I feel like you shouldn’t have to cross the world to finish an event (that doesn’t really have the best loot) so you can acquire the work station. Maybe add better loot to the post EoC acid rain to make it worth it or make the goblin army and EoC requirements for the Acid rain to start
hollow shell
Ah
So the issue is that Goblin Armies cannot start while an Acid Rain is active?
So if you go to the Sulphur Sea and start the event, you gotta finish it
That could be elaborated on in the suggestion
Looks like you assume the readers already know that
vagrant edge
Oh okay
hollow shell
@ashen warren Irradiated Slimes, you mean?
vagrant edge
But you don’t have to travel to the sulphur sea to start it, in my game is started right after I killed EoC and I was confused why the goblin army was not happening, I feel like there isn’t a great way to tell people about the event
hollow shell
It immediately started raining even though you werent in the sea?
@ashen warren Don't include that "also" bit in your suggestion, so each suggestion can stand on their own
zealous ridge
the sparks are determined by random statistics and are basically just a free additive damage boost, and because of the piercing iframes i believe it can lower dps in some cases. (at least, the wiki page doesnt say anything about seperate iframe counters or no iframes)
i can do tests if needed, but point is, it's conceptually uninteresting and honestly not worth trying to find it, similar to the state gladiator's locket and trinket of chi are in right now
in refferal to the uh, unstable prism
hollow shell
Unstable Prism does use separate i-frames
zealous ridge
alright
then it shouldnt tank dps, in that case
but its just
idk, it's not really interesting or fun to use, i guess
hollow shell
I can agree with you there
zealous ridge
and personally i don't like it being so similar to crietz
but if that's a moot point, i get it
i can stick to the uninteresting and boring additive damage boost it essentially is
hollow shell
I am grateful that it's not just a bland stat boost, it actually does something relatively unique
vagrant edge
Rover, yeah I didn’t go to the sea until hard mode but It started right after I killed EoC
hollow shell
but it could be more interesting
Aight well, that wasn't supposed to happen
Acid Rain's only supposed to start while you're in the Sulphur Sea biome, afaik
zealous ridge
really?
it happens all the time after AS dies, unless tier 2 is meant to be always spawnable
just at random
vagrant edge
I just thought my world was glitched so I spawned in my goblin boy
ashen warren
@hollow shell those flying ones (i don't really remember if it was irradiated or sulphurous slimes)
zealous ridge
yeah the flying ones are irradiated
hollow shell
There is no "Sulphurous Slime"
ashen warren
Oh really, ok then i guess irradiated slimes
zealous ridge
ass rain has a lot of jank imo
skaters, water leeches, irradiated slimes and flak crabs are all pretty annoying to fight against
ashen warren
Skaters are just annoying but bearable, but those slimes are flying, so you can't hide from them
hollow shell
hmm
Aight, I think I was wrong about you needing to be in the sea to start the event
That's only for the guaranteed first Acid Rain after EoC
but if it started immediately when EoC died and you didn't go to the sea
then
you just got lucky with the random timer
ashen warren
And as for that Cragmaw Mire suggestion of mine
It really shouldn't be that one miniboss has a huge spawnrate, and the other one cam be barely seen
It shouldn't even need a suggestion having to be made for that
hollow shell
I think that
you may have just gotten unlucky
It doesn't look like there's anything in the source favoring Nuclear Terrors over Cragmaws
sleek wadi
Cragmaws do seem to have more strict spawning conditions, needing to be in water IIRC.
ashen warren
Really, i was THAT unlucky
hollow shell
This is true, Cragmaws do need water and Nuclear Terrors do not
ashen warren
6 acid rain events, with zerg and i was unlucky enough to only have 1, or 2 Cragmaw Mires
And as for the irradiated slimes suggestion? You think it should be nerfed?
welcome back rover btw
tepid root
arent irradiated slimes already getting changed next update?
zealous ridge
y e s
sand umbra
Irradiated Slimes are, in fact, getting changed next update
(also hiya Rover! welcome back, hope your break thing was enjoyable 
)
ashen warren
Where is it written? Or was that an information straight from the mod
hollow shell
It was less of a break and more me forcing myself to step back from Calamity so I could focus on schoolwork
Also Fab is updating #changelogs right now so if Irradiated Slimes did get changed, he'll be posting about it
sand umbra
ah, I see :o
ashen warren
Oh okay, that's good
radiant meadow
I think cragmaw mire spawn reqs/rates got adjusted
something of the sort
Dom would know more on both of these
ashen warren
Thank you, i'll remove my suggestions so they won't create unnecesary spam
radiant meadow
feel free to resuggest if it's still not good next patch
with good reasoning of course
zealous ridge
was my sulphur potion suggestion actually implement??? bru h
radiant meadow
yes
cinder spade
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD PLEASE nerf yharon and let people actually have fun finishing the game and be over with.
yharon isn't "finishing the game" tho
he's also not that hard if you have experience with his fight
zealous ridge
nice
hollow shell
a little late
zealous ridge
we did discuss yharon's jank for a lil bit
im making a doc compiling my problems with it
hallow kraken
Gear?
ashen warren
I think it was:
Asgardian Aegis
Abyssal mirror
The sponge
The amalgam
NanoTech
Celestial Tracers
And maybe the evolution, or nebolous core
lost agate
(imo yharon is kinda dumb for several reasons)
ashen warren
I also had a seperate wing slot mod
lost agate
(some of which i probably already mentioned)
hollow shell
Wing Slot kinda hurts your argument a tad
You've got an extra accessory slot than intended
ashen warren
I mean its only one and because of that j wasnt using a nanotech rank thing it was just a little accesory
unreal viper
Try it without wingslot.
hollow shell
You can try that ^ yes
hollow shell
Understandable
digital saddle
phase 1 and phase 2 have the same health
so
killing yharon p1 in 1:30 is not particularly fast anyways
hollow shell
That sounds a little fast for pre-Darksun
zealous ridge
p1 and p2 having the same health means fuctionally double the hp
and p2 has more dr
well, almost double
190% of p1 health ig
hollow shell
@scarlet torrent You had me up until the post-DoG buff
digital saddle
phangasm gets even more dps than executioners blade
hollow shell
That sounds very separate and uneccessary for the central argument of your sugg
which is that fighting OOA is boring (presumably fighting them in the intended tier, considering you're farming for Vesuvius)
lost agate
Other option is just adding a betsy summon
ashen warren
Fargo's souls mod already adds in betsy and most other minibosses/rare enemies summons
lost agate
no i think thats just mutant mod
hollow shell
We can add our own QoL even if other mods do it
lost agate
so no need to get all the enchant and such
lost agate
Ur ugly
scarlet torrent
I feel Betsy, Ogre, and all similar Old One's Bosses are all designed around the crystal mechanic
of defending it
lost agate
Also yeah you can add your own qol if its smth like this, where you make farming a miniboss a lot more luck reliant
scarlet torrent
Which is why I proposed the boss rush
lost agate
eh
scarlet torrent
Because the crystal mechanic could stay
lost agate
betsy can eviscerate you if the crystal is not there
just that she targets it when its there
scarlet torrent
Old One's Army has always felt like the forgotten side of terraria, which is why I wanted the late game aspect
ashen warren
Althought i feel like there should be a buffed version of old ones army, either post moon lord or post dog
scarlet torrent
terraria modding is fun because we can spruce up boring areas of the game/ unused
hollow shell
You're tryin to kill two birds with two stones, and that doesn't work for one suggestion
hollow shell
You can post two separate suggestions, one for making OOA boss farming quicker, and one for making OOA relevant in later-game
ashen warren
Maybe buffed spawn rates for minibosses and lowered for regular ones (they flying enemies can be an exception), and of course buffed stats of those enemies
And more than 1 betsy phase, its boring without fargo's mod to farm that event
scarlet torrent
I don't know how to incorporate a late game OOA without asking for a lot from the devs, which doesn't really seem fair
So maybe just focus on making betsy a little more convenient to fight, say, after you've beaten her once.
ashen warren
I mean, buffing spawn rates and stats wouldn't be much right? As for a new waves it might be a problem
scarlet torrent
Like spawning every round. Or something. We can argue all day about this.
ashen warren
Yeah that is very flexible thing
hollow shell
(so are you gonna edit your sugg to remove that one sentence or what)
Aight thanks
I'd also propose you edit your bolded line to include what you're suggesting
' Old One's Army "Rush" ' or something
scarlet torrent
Sure, I usually use the bold because bold text is bold
ashen warren
Btw how do you make bold, curved, and sliced text?
scarlet torrent
asterix
ashen warren
?¿?
ashen warren
Oh ok
hollow shell
Thanks Pyxil
gusty geode
Tbh that could work as a 4th tier of the OOA
Like the last waves in the Holiday Moons
Just an endless army of Dark Mages, Ogres and the occasional Betsy until the Crystal breaks
scarlet torrent
That was the idea
ashen warren
But that would break the point of defending the crystal... well... kind of
sand umbra
post-DoG extension to OOA has been in my mind for a while and would be godly
DoG, particularly from a lore standpoint, is all about tearing holes to travel between dimensions
OOA is an event that revolves around shit from another dimension hopping over to your dimension
now go ahead
hollow shell
@vagrant edge The reasoning you were talking about earlier is valid (I was mistaken in thinking you needing to be in the Sea for it to start and assuming you were bugged)
You should edit your suggestion to include that context about Goblin Army suppression.
ashen warren
Well that would make sense Thomas
sand umbra
go ahead and tell me you don't want a fuckin' cosmic Betsy or some shit as you defend this potentially-glitchy crystal to ensure it doesn't implode
gusty geode
Idk much about DD2 but what if we could fight the Old One himself
Whoever he is
Can you even do that in DD2
hollow shell
smells like boss sugg
sand umbra
there is also a second boss in DD2 that one could make use of for memes but like idk how easy it'd be to translate him to a Terraria context
that will be for me to determine at a later date
hollow shell
If you wanna put Old One on the same level as Betsy that's an even darker grey area for what's considered a "mini boss"
ashen warren
Maybe that weird tentacle eye that is next to the event meter could be the boss, if it wouldn't be anywhere in DD2?
scarlet torrent
I don't really want to put any pressure on devs for new bosses or anything, but I like the endless wave idea from @gusty geode
ashen warren
Maybe old one would be in that post DoG or Post moon lord buff
sand umbra
it's never really clarified who "the Old One" refers to in the context of OOA
lost agate
for all you know, he could be dead
ashen warren
But he could be not 🤔
sand umbra
but he could be notn't
lost agate
or he could be so old hes crippled
ashen warren
Well it still would be cool to see old one as a boss in some update
sand umbra
yeah
crippled entities make for pretty lousy boss fights
anywho
there is another boss in the game that OOA is a crossover with
ashen warren
Seriously? What boss
scarlet torrent
Looking at Dungeon Defender's wiki lore it seem's the "Old Ones" are a multitude of evils entities locked in crystals
So it wouldn't be one single boss
sand umbra
I'm in the process of determining how feasible it is to translate this fucker into Terraria boss fight terms but like this could serve inspiration for a potential "Tier 4 Old One's Army" boss/miniboss
scarlet torrent
Not that I want a boss, I clarify
sand umbra
anywho I'm gonna hop out and do shit
ashen warren
Actually i think if we were to make the old one boss, we would be to make one ourselfs. I think the event is enough crossover with DD
scarlet torrent
Alright, I added the endless wave as a possible pre-DoG boss rush concept
and with that, I say adieu
hollow shell
cya
ashen warren
Bye
broken dove
So you guys know how when you fight Bumblebirb it spawns juvenile birbs?
I feel like the juveniles should look like... juveniles, so it doesn’t look like the adult just made a smaller adult
What do you think?
zealous ridge
giving them a smoler, standalone sprite?
i wouldnt be opposed
it would just take some more effort
broken dove
Yeah, giving them their own sprite
Like how Yharon has his ‘sons’ and they do kinda look like younger Yharons
zealous ridge
ive heard that is getting reworked into something else
but
i would like smoler bumbles
or, whatever they're called now
zealous ridge
well, birb is being renamed anyways
terse sundial
we are reviewing it in mod chats
hollow shell
delivered
terse sundial
not right now, but we put it to a vote
subtle oracle
Rover's sugg for personal relief is delivered...
terse sundial
that's not all it is
subtle oracle
Wait, there is Democracy in the dev server??
hollow shell
Both the dev server and mod channels yes
terse sundial
thought it would be pretty obvious that we have hidden channels dedicated to running this server
subtle oracle
So is there a Beta tester or wiki server ?
radiant meadow
no
terse sundial
beta testing mostly happens on the dev server
hollow shell
There are wiki channels
subtle oracle
Apologies for my questions that don't relate to suggs
hollow shell
There are testing channels
terse sundial
#wiki-basic and #wiki-advanced are the two wiki channels
hollow shell
(testing occurs in both this server and the dev server, for reasons)
radiant meadow
I wouldn't mind helping out with the organizing or delivering or whatever
terse sundial
test channel exists here to take advantage of the increased file sizes from the server boosts
radiant meadow
I don't like delivering things to dev though
terse sundial
byeah at this point we are very offtopic
subtle oracle
Thanks for sharing this Intel with me now I'll get back on topic
24 stars for my sugg in a matter of 10-11 hours?
Its doing pretty well..
quick ice
I wholeheartedly support dividing the Suggestions channel into 2; It'd help a lot to keep it organized and reduce the clutter of bad/rle breaking suggestions whenever I'm browsing through the channel
subtle oracle
Like a Sugg evaluation channel or something..
hollow shell
Also thanks Ben
hollow shell
If we do have multiple non-mods doing the suggestion approval thing then we ought to condense it into a new role
instead of having multiple person-specific permissions
frail mantle
you'd have to ask thomas about the Virili part of the sugg iirc
hollow shell
(I'm more willing to consider this idea for Ben than for Sequence because Ben is a former mod and Sequence is a filthy whitename 
)
quick ice
I'd be open to applying for the position of a suggestion-approval-person (Or whatever you guys want to call it) since I spend most of my time here anyways
subtle oracle
White name like all of us 😔
hollow shell
Real quick just for completion's sake
@sand umbra You alright with oolung's sugg?
quick ice
also I'm probably late but wb Rover
wooden wedge
Sugg modding isn't a thing iirc
hollow shell
thank
wooden wedge
Pretty sure it was just an idea epsi had
radiant meadow
I hope to god that oolung isn't thinking about vigil
regarding the overshadowing minions
subtle oracle
The new role shall be named Suggestion Goon
subtle oracle
Vigil is just, we don't talk about that 
lavish goblet
virili's the name of the plague remote summon (just in case this wasn't clear enough)
actually there's no way to know that without using the summon so my bad
sand umbra
who dares disturb me from my slumber 
civic pond
a sug
sand umbra
wait, does Virili currently not interact with Plague Hive at all
radiant meadow
I totally didn't forget
sand umbra
hollow shell
I'll take that as an approval
sand umbra
doesn't she also spawn bees as part of her attack cycle
sand umbra
they should
lavish goblet
what about fuel cell bundle bees tho? unless "mini plaguebringers" are not worthy of the bee status?
hollow shell
yes
radiant meadow
god
dry grotto
:UglyBoy: got in before :3c:
radiant meadow
it got added anyways
dry grotto
i'm crying
radiant meadow
well, 3c didn't get enough stars iirc
subtle oracle
Update content...
radiant meadow
pbg emote got like 210 or something
lavish goblet
does 
gets empowered by plague hive?
lavish goblet
and emotes?
hollow shell
does get empowered by plague hive
If you equip it in real life the emote shows up as twice the size
radiant meadow
plague hive is an accessory
radiant meadow
subtle oracle
Can i suggest an emote and post an image of it here?
hollow shell
You can suggest emotes as long as they have good reason behind it like any other suggestion
foggy plover
ono kras
hollow shell
nice ms paint
lavish goblet
the fact that this channel still don't have any form of pog emote is a good reason
lavish goblet
but then I can't think of any situation where "Sad pog" would be relevant
maybe getting a rare drop but you don't need it?
subtle oracle
And rover, MS paint can be acceptable at times to... Yes?
hollow shell
We have 
as kind of a pog emote
Same usage
And we do have actual pogfish but it's Nitro only
subtle oracle
That's not a traditional Pog emote
dry grotto
Actually. Add in the regular pog
subtle oracle
Its just yes but with the Hyper aura
dry grotto
Or the bandit doing a pog
lavish goblet
i'm sure old duke pogging would look great
dry grotto
What
hollow shell
subtle oracle
So uh rover, would the Sad Pog Fish emote be considered a Meme Sugg?
subtle oracle
I see
civic pond
cant have sad pog without a normal pog first
subtle oracle
I'll find that reason, one of these days ill post it
subtle oracle
Ok rover what about this emote tho, care if i post another image?
hollow shell
you can
hollow shell
ok that's better, more useful
and we have it in the art server already
worn kraken
levi pog??
hollow shell
Would help to have it be properly cropped and transparent though
lavish goblet
I went and checked the new changelogs and
There wouldn't be a more appropriate time for me to have a pog emote
subtle oracle
Okay
lavish goblet
sorry but really isn't as powerful as any form of pog
civic pond
hellyes and pog dont convey the same thing either to some extent
subtle oracle
Im cropping it using a paint program rn
hollow shell
Better not be MS Paint because that can't handle transparency
Best to just use the one Thomas posted
sand umbra
pog moment
radiant meadow
dreamy fjord
i want old ones army stuff but it legit takes a fucking eternity
vagrant edge
was DoG nerfed?
dreamy fjord
wait if DoG was nerfed, why? like, i see if he gets reworked to be less of an endurance battle, but why nerf him when hes already just "dodge for a while and u win"
hollow shell
I don't think he got nerfed recently, as far as I know
dry grotto
He'd need buffs not nerfes 
civic pond
no god please not again
vagrant edge
that was a pretty easy fight
sleek wadi
Scal feels like a better take on endurance battle than DoG.
dry grotto
Bumble. He has 2 phases rn
1: rush
2: damage me please
sleek wadi
Granted part of it is due to multiple timed segments where she can't be damaged, but still.
sand umbra
so like, imo
what DoG needs more than anything is for a different approach to be taken to his fight entirely
frail mantle
isn't every boss in the game "dodge for a while and you win"
sleek wadi
Yes, but that is literally DoG's design philosophy
hollow shell
m
dry grotto
I've got an amazing idea
hollow shell
Terraria bosses don't have much focus on getting damage in when you can
dry grotto
But it might be super hard to code
hollow shell
Old Duke does, kinda
sand umbra
I spoke on this in EE server lemme pull over my thoughts
dreamy fjord
my issue with DoG is he seems hard
sleek wadi
Old duke's exhaustion is weird
dreamy fjord
then u realize
just fucking.. dodge
there arent any too hard to dodge attacks if you just focus
hollow shell
It's pretty much like Touhou
Yes you are shooting things and dealing damage but that's not really the focus. It's like 80% to 90% just dodging
sand umbra
so like, tl;dr of my personal opinions
- Sentinel phase is unnecessary and could be replaced with a phase perhaps involving Cosmic Guardians? or just nuked entirely
- DoG currently is too easy to read and needs a wider variety of things he can do, not more aggressive AI. blue subphase gang rise up, constant aggression does not a good boss make
- give the guy more pronounced changes in each difficulty such as shifting fireballs to all difficulties, giving him special Expert+ behavior
seriously what is it with Calamity and ignoring Expert- second phase in particular needs some new things. currently it's just laser walls, fireballs, and an excuse for DoG to get fatter (with different music)
overall, I think Fab and the team need to. take a step back and reassess where DoG stands difficulty-wise
otherwise he's gonna keep getting reworked every 2-3 months
and the "reworks" that do happen tend to stick awful close to whatever currently exists
dreamy fjord
dog rn is just WAY too easy
sand umbra
(note that almost all of the major changes from DoG's most recent rework were exclusive to Rev+)
dry grotto
Like, one of dog's attacks could be:
He places a dimensional rift and goes inside of it. Later several rift entrances and exists start appearing in order around you, u have to figure out the pattern and dodge as doggo rushes from entrance To exit over and over in said pattern
Whatya guys think of that idea
dreamy fjord
would be interesting
hollow shell
Phantom Ganon?
dreamy fjord
rn the most interesting part of the DoG fight is him occasionally turning invisible and shooting laser walls at u
dry grotto
One of the enemies has an attack like that
hollow shell
not familiar with corp on the lob
dry grotto
And it requires a bit of thinking to avoid
dreamy fjord
dog shouldnt be an endurance battle
dry grotto
Ohh, u should try. Might give u some ideas for attacks
sand umbra
Cosmic Guardians need to be expanded upon because they currently only exist to be Eidolic Wail fodder
the Sentinel phase could potentially be replaced with something that makes Cosmic Guardians a fair bit more relevant
dreamy fjord
or at least
be less of an endurance battle
and use more than 10% of your brain functions
sand umbra
(I say this mainly because the Sentinel phase makes no sense in the context of the fight given what you do to provoke DoG into fighting you in the first place and primarily serves to unnecessarily drag out the fight, imo)
dry grotto
Anyway, hope my idea could be taken into consideration
dreamy fjord
the sentinel phase literally makes the fight easier
because it gives you free time to use lifesteal weapons and/or heal potions
dry grotto
The sentinel phase is ???
dreamy fjord
just trash the sentinel phase
sand umbra
the Sentinel phase could be axed entirely, yeah (or replaced with a segment that revolves around those Cosmic Guardians we don't see much of in higher difficulties)
dreamy fjord
itll make the fight noticeably harder imo because u dont get a completely free full heal between phases 1 and 2
sleek wadi
Okay so Old Duke's thing is apparently that you're meant to outsmart him going by what one of the devs said, what with manipulating him to be in a good spot for whirlpools and exhaustion and baiting his prediction charges. My idea for a DoG rework would actually pull into that, if was something of an underground worm fight while still retaining weak points then you'd need to try to maximum weakpoint vulnerability without moving in such a way that gets you trapped by his body.
dry grotto
We need some kinda death animation for his first and second phase btw
First phase i want him to like, enter a portal and vanish as phase 2 starts (hopefully bringing the cosmic guardians into play)
Cause atm he basically dies
And then returns back to life for some reason?
dreamy fjord
so imo delete the sentinel phase and then make the fight less... boring?
sleek wadi
In lore apparently phase one either isn't canon or it's some weird decoy
DoG phase 2 is the only one that actually exists
dry grotto
It's so weird
dreamy fjord
so phase 1 is him using 1% of his power
sleek wadi
No wonder a revamp is happening, this lore kinda messy
dreamy fjord
or what
dry grotto
Make it cannon with something like the idea of him doing a temporary retreat
sand umbra
In lore apparently phase one either isn't canon or it's some weird decoy
well in-game it is canon
dry grotto
Then after phase 2 he exits from the portal
sand umbra
and it is a necessary part of the fight
dry grotto
And him dieing should be like his armor falling off and he slowly gets thanos snapped
dreamy fjord
maybe that could be used to make an excuse for why he does that
tawny gyro
regarding a rogue station, which is a commonly requested thing i recon
maybe it should be, like, a camoflague station?
sleek wadi
Honestly DoG phase 1 also feels really unnecessary, though that is more because phase 2 is really similar.
tawny gyro
that increases stealth amount and/or gain
sleek wadi
Phase 2 is just him dropping the body lasers for laser walls and it's really lame
dreamy fjord
laser walls arent even that bad
sleek wadi
Also the fire ball but what does that even add to the fight
dreamy fjord
because if u just stop for half a second u can jump through
and if u get hit, who tf cares, its not like hes gonna hit u again before ur potion comes off cd
tawny gyro
btw, about DoG, when was the phase (blue <-> purple) cooldown removed?
sand umbra
purple now hogs most of the fight
...which, if you ask me, actually hurt the fight immensely
it made DoG extremely easy to read once you know how purple subphase works
because you barely see blue subphase in later stages of the fight
tawny gyro
i've noticed after DoG went into blue phase for an outstanding amount of 2 seconds
just so he could attemt to dropkick me with his face
dreamy fjord
purple phase is just "normal worm but faster mode"
sleek wadi
I think the endurance fight design limits what DoG could be and should be removed. Not like an endurance fight wouldn't be a thing, Scal already kinda does it.
tawny gyro
what if both phases had a set timer of, for example, 5-15 seconds (choosen at random)? DoG could go into blue phase for 13 seconds, then purple for 7, then blue for 5 and purple for 11 or something
and you'd have to pay attention to the debuff you currently have to know what phase he's in
sleek wadi
Honestly I'm not sure how much of a place endurance fights even have in Terraria as the game already tests your patience via its RNG and occasionally heavy crafting requirements.
dry grotto
It used to be a timer afaik
tawny gyro
but it wasn't random
sleek wadi
It used to be on a timer, but then nope more purmble,,,,
tawny gyro
actually, wait
dry grotto
Yep, that tasted purple
tawny gyro
he is a Devourer of Gods, right?
dreamy fjord
he ate a god, yes
tawny gyro
the mythical entity that consumes your essence and uses it as his own
why doesn't he use their power?
dreamy fjord
thats how he uses his spacetime warping power
like how ceaseless void got created
and how he goes invisible i think
dreamy fjord
i thought he got his portal powers from eating a godly boi
tawny gyro
if DoG did manage to kill and consume Provi, could he fire profaned flames?
tawny gyro
and, with that, our possibilities expanded drastically
sleek wadi
He only ate one full on god, being OG Astrum Deus. Still have no god damn clue how he managed to be anything more than a splinter at absolute best, but anyways if he did reuse god powers then we get spicier AD.
frail mantle
what's the bluecheck cutoff date again
dreamy fjord
astrum deus got the astral infection
sleek wadi
6 months IIRC
dreamy fjord
so he was getting fucked over
and then doggo here ate his half dead body and stole the power
hollow shell
ah
sleek wadi
AD was large enough to BE the stars and DoG is looking like maybe the size of a mansion, AD's own natural cell generation would probably outspeed anything DoG did.
dreamy fjord
spark he got astral infection'd
aka, astrum deus was dead or almost dead
and then dog stole the kill
sand umbra
smh killstealing.,..,.,.,.,,,,,...
dreamy fjord
yeah, fucking camping
sleek wadi
He got infected yes, but he was still incomprehensibly large. I'm pretty sure DoG did literally nothing and just took credit.
Like when he finally reached the damn worm it was already dead.
dreamy fjord
then how is dog literally stronger than the partially powered up providence
what happened was astrum deus was already dead, so DoG ate most of his corpse and gained some dank powers
tawny gyro
ding
he ate AD, the god of the stars
maybe DoG should make tiny supernovas left and right?
crude geode
Dog's title is ironic, bc despite being "Devourer of Gods", he did little more than just kill steal Astrum Deus' corpse.
sleek wadi
btw aside from AD, he has not killed a single god. Braelor and Statis were at best demi-gods. So maybe he should be named "Vulture of god corpses"
dreamy fjord
yep
crude geode
yeeep
dreamy fjord
but hes trying to eat providence rn
so i would say "worm who wishes to devour beings of divine power"
tawny gyro
honestly, taking DoG eating AD into consideration, Cosmic Guardians make much more sense
dreamy fjord
i suppose he technically devoured one god
and a lot of humans and demigods
wait why doesnt he eat Silva
tawny gyro
they're like the small Astra Dei that accompany the big worm
dreamy fjord
like, surely he can go into the abyss?
dreamy fjord
his armor can withstand spacetime tearing, but not pressure?
crude geode
Dog no like the big bad eidolyn worms
dreamy fjord
why doesnt he fuck off to the abyss and nom on Silva
swift wadi
this sugg is so bad lmao
tawny gyro
i actually had to re-read that sugg 4 times to understand it's about gender pronouns
sleek wadi
Pronoun roles sounds super unnecessary
swift wadi
getting upset because someone called you the wrong gender even though you never once informed them what your gender actually is is fuckin stupid
tawny gyro
h
wooden wedge
I mean, you don't really need a role for something that you could put in your status. Or just telling people
telling people always works
swift wadi
talk to people
crude geode
I also don't think I've ever once seen that happen on this server.
swift wadi
dont just expect them to know
unkempt bolt
no reason for it not to exist though
sleek wadi
Also how would the rules change to accommodate such roles, because you don't add something like that without having additional enforcements if the effects of using the wrong pronoun are as severe as suggested.
unkempt bolt
there'd always be the option of not getting the role
wooden wedge
like the only pronoun usage I see that need to be corrected is when someone says he/she without knowing, then someone corrects them and that's it
lost agate
you see
tawny gyro
hmm, making DoG fight something different than run'n'gun, huh?
unkempt bolt
no you wouldnt
dreamy fjord
like maybe we correct each other on genders but like... who cares?? its not some devastating thing
unkempt bolt
it'd be a react role
lost agate
Thats basically still telling something what your gender is
sand umbra
honestly this just seems entirely too sensitive
if you want someone to assess you as a certain type of person
tawny gyro
maybe he has a phase where his armor glimmers, he takes reduced damage and charges an attack that gets stronger the more dmg you dealt?
dreamy fjord
if you genuinely get offended because someone goes and misgenders you one time on the internet when they literally never met you
sand umbra
then assert yourself and express "hey, motherfuckers, I identify as XYZ gender"
don't expect someone to know
lost agate
Theres several other ways to do this that doesnt need a role
sand umbra
if you assert your identity it saves you a lot of problems and gives the bonus of showing people you aren't afraid to say what you mean and mean what you say
dreamy fjord
then you can kindly fuck off, because someone with such an awful temper that they flip their shit over a small misunderstanding is not someone im going to want to interact with
so imo, doesnt matter
lost agate
voila
tawny gyro
why the hell does that sugg have 5 stars
swift wadi
dude I never knew shucks was a girl
tawny gyro
excluding sugg bot and OP that's 3 people saying "yeah man this is a good idea"
unkempt bolt
christ channel caught on fire lmao
wooden wedge
cool jawer
hollow shell
Don't get all hyperbolic, Jawer
unkempt bolt
the sugg has been active for like one minute
tawny gyro
sorry
hollow shell
@hybrid cipher Prolly would be good to be here for this convo
dreamy fjord
i say
hollow shell
We're still talking about this suggestion, no_vacancy
unkempt bolt
we're discussing the sugg
dreamy fjord
if ur that angry about being misgendered by a stranger who doesnt know you, chill tf out
unkempt bolt
you've stated this already meep
tawny gyro
honestly, it's more of the fact that adding this would not be worth the effort
unkempt bolt
we know where you stand lol
dreamy fjord
if they want to put the effort in to set this up, cool i guess
sleek wadi
My issue with the suggestion is that it feels unnecessary to add some roles and potentially open the doors for further mod enforcement fuckery/rule changes to accomdate. If using the right pronouns is really important to someone that someone should just let the others know by saying it.
wooden wedge
I mean the effort wouldn't really be much
dreamy fjord
but if they dont do it, ah well, maybe itll trigger 1 or 2 people who are that insecure over this shit
wooden wedge
it'd just be a bot + a message in info
hybrid cipher
hm what
lost agate
bots can be effort smh
dreamy fjord
either way, doesnt seem like itll change anything
unkempt bolt
wouldnt change that much imo, just clear up unnecessary confusion
i've set up react roles before myself, takes like 2 minutes
wooden wedge
sarg look at the top right corner of your screen and press the @ button
hybrid cipher
i literally cannot understand objection to this it's so simple
lost agate
with a pre made bot or...?
unkempt bolt
or reaction roles
lost agate
i see
hybrid cipher
it's just a quick react bot thing for useless roles to save confusion and unnecessary offense
dreamy fjord
who gets offended
lost agate
I mean
wooden wedge
it's not objection, it's just that it doesn't seem nessicary to something that isn't really a deal at all
lost agate
someone can still get misgendered
shell grotto
best way to clarify is to ask nicely, just ask "what gender do you identify as" I feel a bot would be unncecessary, additionally people sometimes just use different terms, I use "dude/guy" a lot because it is just how I speak, it happens
unkempt bolt
a bit ignorant to assume that just because you dont, other people dont
lost agate
because not everyone looks at the profile of every single person they talk to
hybrid cipher
yeah but it wouldn't be an accident if you could actually see which promouns they use
gusty geode
It's one of those things that's neat to have
But you don't really notice it unless you're actively looking for it
Regardless I wouldn't mind it personally
hybrid cipher
at that point it's on you for not looking
dreamy fjord
who tf gets offended because a random internet stranger you dont know accidentally called you a he when ur actually a she
unkempt bolt
people who struggle with things like that lol
hybrid cipher
^
lost agate
Ah well this isnt really gonna go anywhere imo so imma go do smth else
dreamy fjord
but... its like, insanely small, and a simple mistake
hybrid cipher
even if it's an accident it can still be harmful
unkempt bolt
i dont know why it's hard for people to comprehend that something that's small to them isn't small to others
gusty geode
There's no reason to do it
But there's also no reason not to
shell grotto
just correct someone, and everything would go fine from there
hollow shell
If you're the type of person who gets very hurt by being misgendered then I think you would make it clear what your gender is
lost agate
Im pretty sure that people that care that much about misgendering put their gender on their status
shell grotto
be nice
swift wadi
Statuses exist
hybrid cipher
how are you supposed to do that though
hybrid cipher
what if you want to use your status for other things
wooden wedge
status/name
swift wadi
Do "Him | (status)"
wooden wedge
then just add it to your existing status
hollow shell
You can have multiple things in the status
lost agate
Then you put it at the end of your status
shell grotto
hollow shell
Or, if you recently transitioned or something, you can just tell people what gender you now identify as and they will accommodate
hybrid cipher
i guess but like so many servers already have this anyway so i don't see what the resistance is for
shell grotto
"Set custom status"
hollow shell
happened with Pixl
dreamy fjord
like, idc if someone thinks im a her, it isnt some targetted attack on the very fiber of my being, its just a small mistake
unkempt bolt
meep there's a small chance that it affects you far less than it might affect some people
lost agate
GGGG this is just going into ethics and i dont like it
dreamy fjord
just saying, most people wont use it and/or wont care
unkempt bolt
then there's no harm
shell grotto
same here, I feel like it can be very easily solved just by asking, and should not require an entire role to be based around it.
hybrid cipher
i didn't know that about pixl so it's not something everyone can know about someone, you'd have to say it multiple times without putting it in your status
tawny gyro
then there's the other thing
tawny gyro
even if you ping yourself to get a role, nobody will actually look at your profile before typing a message
wooden wedge
it's not about the effort though or the importance of roles
tawny gyro
before they even consider asking for your gender they'd already written a few messages
sleek wadi
If this affects people as much as we say it does, then adding the roles means we'd to account for it in our moderation as I think there is a rule about harassment which this would fall under. This means that it would no longer be just a role and would now add more to moderator workload which is something to take into account.
shell lynx
I feel like this is going nowhere
crude geode
^
sand umbra
tl;dr if you identify as a gender tell people about it and move on
dreamy fjord
yeah i cant be fking bothered to check the role of every single person im chatting with, it takes just as long if not longer than the misgendered person saying "im actually a he/her/etc"
hybrid cipher
it really wouldn't add to mod workload
sand umbra
if they still call you a different gender than what you identify as after you've told them what gender you identify as, then don't talk to them
hybrid cipher
but whatever
frail mantle
i just call everyone a he unless i know they're not
hybrid cipher
this isn't going anywhere
lost agate
crude geode
Thank god.
crude geode
This might be a bit much and trigger the "grand rescale/rework" rule, so I'll post this suggestion here first about DoG.
Rework the DoG fight to have more phases than just purple and blue
The DoG is meant to be one of the most powerful bosses in the game, part of a trio of the end game bosses with SCal and Yharon. However, he is nothing more than just a big worm who charges at you and occasionally fires laser/fire. As such, I think that adding more variety to DoG with different phases could help provide variety and more difficulty in fighting DoG. DoG relies on the fact that he has consumed the essence of powerful beings, so I’ll focus on that for these new phases.
Statis is a master assassin and rogue, and DoG would probably absorb some of that power in the form of portal travel. When the phase starts, DoG would disappear into a cosmic portal and summon a spread of them before charging out through one at the Terrarian while firing a spread of cosmic kunai. This would force the player to react and move precisely so DoG doesn’t bite them in the back.
Since Braelor is a jungle leader and warrior, summoning cosmic versions of various jungle enemies or just general enemies could show that DoG has command over far more than what we see in the Sentinels of the Devourers and the Cosmic Guardians. Over the course of the fight, DoG could summon less and less enemies, since he wants to finish the Terrarian off in his natural cocky manner.
Note: This is not exactly what I expect DoG to be. Exactly how these phases work is really up for debate, but I want DoG to have more than just angry charges or laser walls.
unkempt bolt
i like the idea of the multiple portals, and he comes out of one
hollow shell
I'm doing a big think
sand umbra
on one hand, this probably falls under "grand scale/rework" don't
hollow shell
This is triggering my specificity alarms but I think it's actually backed up well
sand umbra
on the other hand...it's backed up very well and DoG honestly seriously needs this sort of approach taken to "reworking" him
sand umbra
rather than just changing how subphases work for the 15th time 
hollow shell
This is a big change but I don't think it's a grand scale change
s'more a matter of principle and a lotta re-testing