i ain't tanking at all
#suggestions-discussion
graceful wagon
zealous ridge
get hit twice at all and you're basically at death levels of health
godslayer revive, gone for 45 seconds
silva revive, procced when you didnt want to do that
dapper violet
Rename Supreme Calamitas to Calamitas, and Calamitas (clone) to Doppelganger.
Reason: Her name is Calamitas, not Supreme Calamitas (unless that's like her last name). It feels weird that the original is named "Supreme", like it's just a buffed up version of Clone (which pretty much means SCal is a more powerful clone of hm-Calamitas).
i believe the point is that you're supposed to believe that you killed the real one and then find out it was the clone through the lore item
graceful wagon
i got a fully automatic homing weapon and many mobility upgrades so i can just focus on dodging and am but it doesn't matter
THAT is my reasoning.
zealous ridge
add it to the suggestion, aga
tawny gyro
yeah, but the fact SCal has supreme in her name sounds like she's an upgrade to hm-calamitas
which in turn would mean SCal is the clone
there's a difference between A being an upgrade to B and B being a downgrade to A
graceful wagon
like skeletron prime
dapper violet
perhaps her name should be True Calamitas or something
but i think supreme calamitas is just too iconic
tawny gyro
exactly, skele prime is a more powerful clone of skele
dapper violet
then again, they renamed ataxia armor to hydrothermic
tawny gyro
Or just have both be named Calamitas
with clone having her "A Calamitas Doppelganger has been defeated!" message like she does now
crude geode
Having both be named Calamitas might cause problems for the wiki
tawny gyro
for wiki they could be labeled
Calamitas (Clone)
and
Calamitas (True)
digital saddle
and calamity is made to be difficult for an average player
crude geode
Call it Calamitas and True Calamitas
tawny gyro
newer players don't know about SCal yet
digital saddle
Supreme calamitas
tawny gyro
you should learn the current cal is a clone from the defeat message and the lore item
digital saddle
i think turbo charges arent very fun to play against
dont like duke, dont like yharon, dont like old duke
crude geode
I don't think anybody does
unique vector
dashes are fun wym
ashen warren
yharon easy
crude geode
knew that was gonna happen tbh
zealous ridge
so what matters more, then? a boss being hard or a boss being fun?
unique vector
knew what was gonna happen?
ashen warren
mod is here
unique vector
both are equally important chozo
zealous ridge
okay
tawny gyro
old duke is 
zealous ridge
so uh .,.,,., ...
digital saddle
i think fun is more important than anything
crude geode
someone saying "I do lol" as soon as I brought up what people find not fun to play against
digital saddle
but some people find the challenge fun
tawny gyro
usually when i beat a hard boss i think "okay, that was hard, but it was fun in the end"
zealous ridge
i dont feel like yharon is in his best spot rn
unique vector
because people fall under the misconception that when someone agrees with their opinion they assume thats what everyone thinks
tawny gyro
against old duke i only felt absolute hatred in my heart
unique vector
some people anyway
crude geode
Yes, like me
ashen warren
suggestion : make auric tesla bars and shadowspec bars something like life alloy. like such powerful equipment isn't gonna be crafted from simple bars
unique vector
dunno what you mean honestly
but then again i havent done a proper pt in a while so
tawny gyro
shadowspec aren't some "simple bars", wdym
digital saddle
auric tesla bars has what? 11 ingredients?
unique vector
heres a tip though
tawny gyro
they're literally god metal
unique vector
if you want to suggest a boss nerf we need specific examples and statistics that prove it needs a nerf
ashen warren
don't nerf please
unique vector
simply saying "nerf plz its too hard and not fun" does not really give us a reason to nerf, because "hard" and "fun" are subjective at times
crude geode
^^^^^^
zealous ridge
yes okay, i understand that, the 2hard thing is hard to respond to
unique vector
send us videos of yharon, send us dps statistics, send us kill time comparisons, send us whatever
crude geode
I personally know someone who finds Storm Weaver fun, despite also finding it complete pain
unique vector
@digital saddle do also consider that we do not balance around nohits
unique vector
then do so
zealous ridge
i don't want to take up space or write a doc that won't be read
digital saddle
yeah. I dont think any boss needs a nerf because of nohits. Though i do think all attacks should be dodgable with enough practice
unique vector
giving us clear and concise facts and evidence is better than just saying "nerf i dont like"
thats your issue
if you're intent on the fact that a doc isnt read then it isnt a huge issue
zealous ridge
what do you mean?
weak field
I do think that with all these nohits out there this boss should be reasonably hard but not impossible or stupid enough to the point where it needs a nerf
unique vector
even if you type long paragraphs and think it won't be read, you'd be trying to get your point across
automatically assuming it wont be read and using that as your reason to not say anything just makes it seem like you dont think its big enough of an issue to warrant the effort of explaining
zealous ridge
nono, i think i said that wrong
sand umbra
a doc is a good opportunity to get a lot of information into a sugg that doesn't eat half the screen as a snack
unique vector
saying you can write a lot about why yharon doesnt work well as a boss doesnt mean anything
zealous ridge
i mean, that docs are just naturally less read if theyre in a sugg
sand umbra
I, for one, would absolutely read a doc if it's in a sugg
documents have rights too :v
weak field
^
zealous ridge
im willing to make a doc, if that clarifies
unique vector
then do so
sand umbra
(that, and given my SAC research project and a couple other of my earlier suggs utilized a doc to save space, I'd be the hypocrite of the century if I didn't read the aforementioned doc)
unique vector
theres only so much that can be covered from tests
sand umbra
(granted, I don't make suggs that are in-depth enough to warrant a doc these days, but I'd still totally use one if I needed to)
zealous ridge
of course, yeah
its more a thing with the inherent nature of audience retention and such
i didn't mean for it to come off as a whine about how no one would listen even if i tried to explain
ashen warren
I cant see the life alloy thing in changelog
zealous ridge
and yeah, i can write up a doc
it would take awhile and probably a lot of feedback
frail mantle
life alloy name change is indeed not in changelogs
tired haven
Changelogs don't reflect 100% of changes, anyway
frail mantle
^
zealous ridge
but i mean, im willing if yall are willing to help verify the stuff i say in it
it might be my like sentinel armor set stuff, where i kindof just share the doc around
and i might post if i am satisfied with it
frail mantle
some minor things, like simple name changes, aren't listed in #changelogs, and some big things, like Scoria redesign, are also not listed in changelogs
sand umbra
I remember Ozz was doing 100% changelog moments for a while
then updates became humongous chungus and it kinda stopped happening
zealous ridge
now writing an idea for a yharon rework hahaues
frail mantle
altix did a 100% changelog iirc
or it might have just been changes outside of balancing, can't remember
weak field
No not a summoner weapon for earth elemental
We have them for other elemental is because that they're waifu(s)
But earth elemental is not waifu
hybrid fjord
He is husbando
toxic kettle
Nerfing Yharon, how original
frail mantle
SIS moment
crude geode
Heart of the Husbandos when
wooden wedge
oh god I just realized it's skoores again
I was gonna ping and ask for a reason for the sugg
digital saddle
yeah ive been wondering about summon for earth ele
wooden wedge
also what about a granite elemental summon?
or cosmic?
you can't just have a summon for all elementals because they have the word elemental in it
./././.,.,.
digital saddle
why are you pinging to ask for a reason you're not a mod
wooden wedge
what
hybrid fjord
You don’t need to be a mod to enforce the rules
crude geode
Bc Sandstone does what anyone should when there's not a good reason for suggs
sand umbra
people that aren't mods can ping people about adding reasons to their suggs and such
normally, it'd be Rover doing it, but he's been taking what I can only presume is a series of personal days
wooden wedge
hell I didn't even ping skoores, because it's skoores
crude geode
^^^^^^^^
sand umbra
so I and several others have stepped up to the plate in his absence to keep up the enforcement of sugg rules
THAT SAID
I'm not gonna bother trying with this one
because it's Skoores
who is known to never read this channel
crude geode
dapper violet
ah yes the 5 elements
water
earth
earth again
air
demon fire
These are the elements in the HOTE
wooden wedge
where's granite?
dapper violet
that's the rare earth
dry grotto
What about marble
distant gyro
ice, granite, chaos, cosmic, sand, cloud, brimstone
sleek wadi
EE getting added to HotE is a don't isn't it?
dapper violet
hoplites/medusa should drop marble
you can farm granite all day but you have to manually mine marble
sand umbra
okay but can we just talk about how current HotE is
distant gyro
no we don't talk about current hote being what it is now
dry grotto
Hote? U mean stats + vanity waifus?
sand umbra
water
sand
sand again
a cloud
the literally Brimstone Elemental
dry grotto
Cause let's be honest. Nobody actually uses the waifus 
sleek wadi
I use the waifus, the DPS with them as opposed to without is about the same for not-summoners.
dapper violet
but they clutter the screen
sleek wadi
Sure I could be getting the other boosts, but whatever. Also the screen clutter just isn't an issue where it matters.
dry grotto
U're better off with other accessories tho
weak field
They do serve me well when I'm fishing
Plus you can just switch the visibility off
And gain some extra stats bonus
sleek wadi
What other accessories? Plague Hive? The incredibly rare Community? HotE is the best slot filler you can get.
Filling slots in post-ML is actually kidna difficult for me when I'm not summoner
dry grotto
For summoner it's also better to go for summon slot boosts anyway
Anywat. Hote is nice till post-ml
gusty geode
Has someone done that meme about how if we're gonna add an earth elemental summon might as well also add summons for other elementals like chaos, ice and granite yet
wooden wedge
several times
sleek wadi
I have straight up came up with an idea that was basically a HotE but for the other elementals and even posted it during the SIS era
Think it was called Geo Elemental Gem or some shit like that. It summoned Granite, Cosmic, Ice, Chaos, and Earth Elemental to fight for you and was a pre-Cryogen accessory because summoner was absolute garbage until post-clone back then.
sand umbra
mfw people yell about Earth Ele being a meme idea but are perfectly okay with HotE's current oversaturation of
s a n d
carmine island
Wtf is that suggestion that translate to roughly Yharon hard pleez delet
potent veldt
Yharon isn't even hard, tbh
wooden wedge
just like a majority of the other suggs here
potent veldt
If anything I don't think his Phase 2 is hard enough
carmine island
He is, but it's what you'd expect from a final ish boss
potent veldt
His Phase 1 is definitely hard
sleek wadi
Final-ish? He straight up is final boss, Scal is super.
potent veldt
His Phase 2 is really odd
carmine island
Going in expecting the 2nd to last boss to be easy, something is wrong with that mentality
sand umbra
sleek wadi
Because people are now just finishing their summoner playthroughs, we saw something similar with the rogue update. Anyway tbf Yharon is a massive difficulty spike
potent veldt
He is, but it's to be expected
potent veldt
No one goes into Yharon and is like "Mmm yes he will be as hard as DoG"
carmine island
Phase 2 difficulty = RIP Laptop
dry grotto
Yharon's the hardest boss in the mod
But like
The only thing i'd nerf is the amount of balls he fires at you in phase 2
sand umbra
DoG be like "am I a joke to you"
sleek wadi
You get Providence who is weirdly fragile and then the rest of post-ML is a bunch of pushovers ignoring Old Duke, then suddenly giant scary dragon comes in and kicks your ass 5 ways from sunday.
Yes DoG you are a joke to me
sand umbra
to which I respond "yes you are, DoG, yes you are"
dry grotto
Dog is a joke when he can't bite you
carmine island
My ass here defending endgame bosses and a few Suggs up I was bitching about early boss Aureus.
zealous ridge
dog really has fallen from grace
sand umbra
"because all you do is the same purple sky shit for most of the fight"
zealous ridge
he went from the cloning king and ruiner of fun to this
sand umbra
personal take: DoG was better before his purple subphase starting hogging the fight
e
dry grotto
Would be nice if doggo had other ways of attacking except for charge and lazers
sleek wadi
What if you couldn't do the skybridge strat in the first place, underground DoG when
sand umbra
if his blue subphase had actually been expanded upon, like
indigo fog
There are Cosmic Guardians but it's not like they're a threat at all
sand umbra
I personally think that could've a much better solution to DoG being "too easy" than
dry grotto
Blue subphase should've worked more like stormweaver
sand umbra
removing one of the biggest things that made him hard
dry grotto
But he throws a bunch of spheres from ceaseless void at you
carmine island
Blue sub phase needs the same thing as 2nd phase blue, where he can dive at you whenever he wants
sand umbra
no that's just him transitioning to purple subphase
sleek wadi
Blue subphase DOES work like Storm Weaver, pretty sure it pulls from Crawltipede AI
sand umbra
okay but like blue subphase did nothing
carmine island
I swear he randomly dive bombs in the middle of blue
dry grotto
Not exactly. Atleast stormweaver is dangerous during blue phase
sleek wadi
It just doesn't do anything because why the fuck would you ever leave the ground against him.
sand umbra
the issue is not that purple subphase needs to be more promininent; that's just putting a band-aid on the issue
the issue, in my opinion, is that blue subphase needs to have more to it than just the funny Crawltipede AI
purple subphase hogs most of the fight and it makes DoG extremely predictable once you know what purple subphase does
dry grotto
Like i said, ler him shoot mass amounts of ceaseless's spheres at you
carmine island
The lasers he fires dont reach my sky bridge 90% of the time
zealous ridge
does anyone remember when dog spawned nebula spheres? like those zigzag orb projectiles that were actually hard to dodge?
ozz i remember said something about really liking that attack, and maybe there should be a suggestion asking to re-implement it more effectively?
dry grotto
Or make him perform some funky spin above your head before firing massive bolts in patterns
A bit like rayquaza in smash
carmine island
DoG spinning lightning bolt :D
He just spins AS style and a giant ass lightning bolt just goes EEEEEEEEEE and then you hopefully die.
queen sail
Blue subphase on a skybridge is literally just dog going in a straight line for funny damage
zealous ridge
(tm)
carmine island
Yes AS soon bad
dry grotto
Not an as spin
sleek wadi
AS spin should stay AS spin
AS spin is literally the only thing neat about AS now that Old Duke exists
dry grotto
More like a...
sand umbra
blue subphase on a skybridge actually isn't literally just DoG going in a straight line for funny damage
blue subphase accounts for platforms
queen sail
Anyone have a gif of worm spin anyways
dry grotto
Does it?
zealous ridge
srsly tho does anyone remember nebula spheres
dry grotto
I do
carmine island
I been here since November so nope.
dry grotto
I also remember double doggo
zealous ridge
haha yes
zealous ridge
dog would clone himself at 20% hp
zealous ridge
you had to bring them both down to 20% to stop the other one from cloning again
dry grotto
That brought in a lot of memes
queen sail
Dog infintum
dry grotto
Almost as bad as bumblebirb infinitum
Which reminds me: make bumblebirb account platforms during the fight
carmine island
BumbleBruhMoment
dry grotto
Cause right now if u're high enough off the ground he won't summon minions
And he doesn't seem to care about minions
carmine island
Let Aureus and crabby use platforms outside their jump phases when
dry grotto
Yes
gray nebula
what is that reasoning
frail mantle
wasn't Death and co made toggleable so you wouldn't be absolutely fucked if you misclicked
gray nebula
couldn't you just disable the config and then switch back the mode
still cliff
He wants expert and i want deathmode
north ocean
cant you just choose revengence for a bit of both
gray nebula
it just sounds like you want to force your friend to play deathmode
still cliff
I know
gray nebula
so you're asking for a way to make him not able to switch back
still cliff
ok i lied i want expert mode coz i hate dying 300mil times
gray nebula
ok but still why
frail mantle
then go expert mode
north ocean
go expert mode but if he wants death choose revengence for a bit of both
radiant meadow
compromise and go rev >.<
still cliff
But he switches it back to death
north ocean
tell him to go rev
gray nebula
Well stop playing with him then
so you're just suggesting that so that you can play on expert with your friend,,,
wooden wedge
Didn't you say that you want to do expert though?
still cliff
Rev is like death but you are more weak (rage- adrenaline)
wooden wedge
What
north ocean
what
wooden wedge
Rage and adrenaline do the same thing in death and rev
wooden wedge
It's the exact same boost
north ocean
in rev ur stronger than death
north ocean
because bosses are easier
gray nebula
rippers getting boosted in death got removed
wooden wedge
It was removed months and months ago
still cliff
Oh
wooden wedge
Maybe stay up to date before you sugg
frail mantle
i mean you both could just
sit down and decide which difficulty you want to play instead of forcing the other to conform to your preference
still cliff
Let me tell you what really happens everytime:
We play death until hardmode✓
Kill cryogen✓
Die at mech bosses 3mil times✓
Try again with decent gear✓
Die inside✓
Give up✓
Switch to expert✓
Lag for the rest of the gameplay cause of the projectiles✓✓
Give up again✓
That's our "playthrough"
wooden wedge
sounds legit
still cliff
Well welcome to my world 
wooden wedge
but how will making a non-permanent permanent toggle help that in any way
still cliff
Lock expert
north ocean
just do rev lmao
queen sail
Buy better cpu 
wooden wedge
@strong jacinth that's a don't
strong jacinth
oh
wooden wedge
and bumble already got a resprite br
swift wadi
and bumble's already getting another resprite
hybrid fjord
another one?
wooden wedge
already?
swift wadi
yes from what i know
indigo fog
he literally just got one this update
hybrid fjord
bro i actually like this one
sleek wadi
Another one? What's wrong with this one?
dapper violet
are they respriting again to make it look more bumbly and less dragon birdy?
sleek wadi
Does it not reflect Yharon's future appearance or what?
queen sail
Looking at it rn I can see the similarities with the red things on its neck but so far that’s it
dapper violet
the beak shape
wooden wedge
it's a failed yharon clone
dapper violet
wing shape
wooden wedge
the point is "failed"
sleek wadi
It pulls more from the current design than the upcoming redesign. The multiple eyes, the weird pelvis, the claws which are tinier, weaker variants of Yharon's. So I guess the next resprite will be more of a fuck up of Yharon's redesign.
unkempt bolt
what even is that yharon sugg lol
queen sail
Mmmmmm
Should I post the wip yharon resp or will I get vibe checked for technical spoilers 
Was gonna use it for comparison and whatnot but
molten dune
o-o\
lost agate
Oh it has wings now
queen sail
Btw
molten dune
At least more of the wing is in the pic now
queen sail
Aren’t the wings supposed to have green tips or smth
sand umbra
oshit Yharon resprite really do be experiencing progress
hybrid fjord
torchic has evolved into combusken
molten dune
👀
hybrid fjord
but in all seriousness that yharon looks hype
carmine island
Another reason Aureus spawns need port indicators. One of them teleported into my falling stars from the deific amulet. Am sad T-T
zealous ridge
better yet have them not be teleporting minions and just make them a normal attack
frail mantle
i think Thomas mentioned something about how they're weird because they seem like you're supposed to try not hitting them, but they practically teleport up your asshole in an effort to trick you into hitting them
zealous ridge
its an odd choice
wooden wedge
@peak oyster pretty sure that's already happening
also 2 suggs in the same thing?
and it's relativly specific too, look at that
unique vector
@jade ferry please give a valid reasoning to your suggestion
wooden wedge
and that's a no iirc because nobody wants to sprite it
swift wadi
also this is frequently suggested and already turned down
jade ferry
@unique vector its simple i just want to be able to put the mob “piggy” in a terrarium like how u can put ducks, penguins etc.
hollow idol
"turned down"
jade ferry
oh
hollow idol
also no love for minnows, hermits, and baby jellies 
swift wadi
i still thought it got turned down
jade ferry
ok thanks ill um throw him in a item frame or something
unique vector
was recently suggested and approved actually
unique vector
not actually implemented
jade ferry
it worked
wooden wedge
anything else like that
hollow idol
armor stands work
swift wadi
huh
hollow idol
nah
I was able to put torrential tear in an item frame and the world was corrupted when I restarted the game
indigo fog
Yes there is that piggy in terrarium suggestion which was approved but there's also this
So I guess it was both approved and rejected?
hollow idol
that one was rejected because the aoe thing iirc
indigo fog
i guess that makes sense
hollow idol
literally just dump it in sprites needed in art if the issue is sprites iirc
like the fountains and trophies
toxic kettle
What about this?
Make it so the color your hearts and mana stars change to upon using permanent upgrades like Blood Orange and Comet Shard depend on which upgrade you use instead of how many you've consumed already.
When I looked through the permanent power-ups page and saw the different colors my hearts and mana stars can change to I thought about which color I wanted them to be in the end and was surprised to see that, when I actually used them ingame, Elderberry (a blue fruit) turned my hearts green (I deliberately skipped Miracle Fruit and planned to use it last so my hearts could be green in the end).
I think, with so many other things pertaining to your character being fully customizable, from the hairstyle to the color you want your Slime Mount to be, being able to determine the color of your hearts/mana stars after consuming all permanent upgrades would be a nice addition. Also, as mentioned above, Elderberry turning my hearts green doesn't make much sense.
"You could just not consume all fruits and your hearts will be the color you wa-" no ma'am.
If no one has an issue with it, I'll post it
indigo fog
sure post it it seems fine
mighty knot
@coral jungle hell no
indigo fog
Doesn't everyone think Yharon and SCal are the massive difficulty jump?
toxic kettle
Buff Yharon huehuehue
coral jungle
It's too easy! I only spent 5 min doing Yharon on death, my first playthrough. My third try
molten dune
wrong
dog is easy as shite
yharon sucked ass
i mean i did play him during the enraged glitch
but shut up
coral jungle
DoG was much more difficult for its point in the game
indigo fog
Explain what makes Yharon and SCal so much easier than DoG
coral jungle
DoG took me 3 hours. yharon 5 min. Supreme calamity also 3, but It's easy after you beat it once, not much replayability.
If you go back to DoG with pre DoG weapons, it's still hard to overcome
toxic kettle
Yharon took me weeks
coral jungle
I'm sorry
carmine island
Wtf. First I come back to the yharon nerf request, and now a buff to not just Yharon but also SCal.
toxic kettle
^
molten dune
mfw buff yharon
lime cradle
dog is imo harder than yharon
lime cradle
kind of agree with poster minus scal
lime cradle
I used rod and still struggled
beat p1 yharon in 3 tries
beat dog in 19
molten dune
so it makes sense
molten dune
i had anti-w0rm weapons, so it was easier for me
wooden wedge
@coral jungle you need an actual reason for your sugg
lime cradle
they do have an actual reason
toxic kettle
Difficulty varies so much from person to person
wooden wedge
where is it then?
ashen warren
DoG is an endurance battle, yharon is a fast paced punchout, scal is precision based
wooden wedge
I'd like to see it
lime cradle
in the first few sentences
molten dune
the first few of a 2 sentence coment
wooden wedge
it's 2 sentences
ashen warren
what you can look at is the arbitrary number inflation that keeps happening with DoG, Yharon, and SCal
wooden wedge
ok but where is the reasoning though?
lime cradle
dog is a harder difficulty jump than yharon
buff yharon so there isn’t a difficulty spike
wooden wedge
ok that's just their sugg, reason?
lime cradle
that’s the whole reason and explanation
ashen warren
stating that the jump is bigger without evidence is def not a valid reason
wooden wedge
that reason's way too weak to ask for a rework of 2 endgame bosses
lime cradle
you can’t really quantify evidence
wide tide
Prob won't get any buffs seeing as how it'll get many complaints... They'll get nerfed if they receive a buff. Not all of us are Boss slaying Gods.
wooden wedge
you can actually
wooden wedge
see this reasoning is weak because it's completely subjective
people can be bad at any boss or be good at any boss and ask for a buff/nerf
toxic kettle
Comedy
lime cradle
such requests have been made and accepted before
molten dune
and also there arent any bosses before him
lime cradle
people said acid rain was too hard
now it’s getting retuned
wooden wedge
that's completely different from 2 pre established endgame bosses
lime cradle
which is why I disagree with scal but not yharon
wooden wedge
maybe keep those memes out of here
molten dune
aplogies
hallow kraken
I would assume rage, adrenaline, and boss health were changed due to game balance
indigo fog
because you don't have to rely on not getting hit to build up adrenaline
You still have to not get hit to build up adrenaline. What do you mean by this?
hallow kraken
We can’t just have a config to remove that
indigo fog
Also aren't death mode configs a don't
toxic kettle
Having to rely on rippers to kill a boss is not good
plain oasis
ok
indigo fog
I'm pretty sure there will never be a config to undo balancing. It was changed for a reason
toxic kettle
I remember people not being able to kill Death Prime in time without rippers
plain oasis
I just got back into calamity and I was shocked by how fast I was killing bosses
carmine island
Only a few cases does that apply :P
plain oasis
took me 30 secs to kill desert scourge with beginning gear
carmine island
Its DS
carmine island
You can kill him literally by grappling to the floor and holding m1 with the mandible claw
wooden wedge
pre HM bosses shouldn't be a scale for this
carmine island
Aureus I feel is the only boss where health kinda goes to difficulty. Even then it's not the main part
swift wadi
too easy
Providence: no more healing flames, different pattern, twice as many cocoons
carmine island
I told myself that.
Died to him 3 times
Underestimating a boss is where all my roadblocks form
God sake golem was a pain
carmine island
The amount of lasers and the little room to work with +fireballs made me want to die
I'm used to golem = easy so it took my dumb brain a long time to adjust to death mode
toxic kettle
Golem in vanilla 
toxic kettle
Summon him standing below the box so he spawns in it 
molten dune
queen sail
Also uh i know ds is generally considered to be intentionally easy but
The fact that the most commonly accepted method of defeating him is just a row of platforms 20 blocks aboveground doesn’t seem to uh
Make a good impression for the boss
molten dune
you literally dont need to move
queen sail
i can’t type today
hallow kraken
Hey request
queen sail
It doesn’t seem to be a very good first impression ngl
hallow kraken
Can just one of you guys go star my wulfrum pole sug, it’s been sitting at 119 with self star for like 2 days now
carmine island
you literally dont need to move
Yeah, projectiles say otherwise.
queen sail
I mean
Yeah
But what else
You can also manipulate its ai so that it never jumps high enough to reach the platform
carmine island
Unless you're (Me) stupid (Me) and dont bother doing that.
barren crest
MeMe
queen sail
Considering that that tends to be the one part that can screw up the strategy
cloud surge
is this a typo, and can i make a suggestion about it?
barren crest
so why did they add the option to have title screen music in the first place then
barren crest
idk, its a small detail but id love to see it implemented
barren crest
well, for the same reason anything has music, to be audibly pleasing i guess lol
digital saddle
calamatis sounds like a disease
wooden wedge
uh ok
zealous ridge
Dog really ain’t that bad anymore
sleek wadi
Buff the last 2 bosses because they weren't a large jump? More like nerf them BECAUSE they are a large jump. Aside from Old Duke and Providence, every boss before Yharon in post-ML are utter pushovers then Yharon comes in and kicks your ass.
zealous ridge
Laser walls aren’t even that bad
He’s boring, first of all
It seems like he’s always in purple phase, which is quite predictable
sleek wadi
Granted, part of that pushover factor is because there are not 2, not 3, not 4, but 5 bosses that exist solely to be yet another obstacle to fighting some other boss. Hell I kinda want to argue Polterghast is something of an obstacle to fighting Old Duke but Polterghast has an armor set so
barren crest
just make the deathmode head one shot thing in all difficulties 
barren crest
lmao
digital saddle
polter is resprited plant
digital saddle
polter is also piss easy
zealous ridge
Idk depends on class
sleek wadi
Polter difficulty, like plant, scales with arena.
zealous ridge
I remember my melee run being difficult
sleek wadi
A big box bullies him.
zealous ridge
Well isn’t that just tedious and boring, eh?
Post ml is an arena building simulator
digital saddle
luiafk check
zealous ridge
We’re not balancing around lui
sleek wadi
For my standard melee run, Polter was a total joke. He posed absolutely 0 threat due to low damage. Also Polter only enrages on surface now, so you could just mortar round a large square out next to the dungeon and place some planter box rows.
digital saddle
polter poses 0 threat because he doesnt punish just circling him
zealous ridge
Like literally it took me around 40 attempts
I thought he did tho
The returning projectiles?
Apparently y’all don’t have a problem with those
Because I did
digital saddle
my polter nohit was like 1:45 of circling with almost no deviation
digital saddle
i would like if polter's "tendrils" between his body and hook occasionally got "charged" to damage you if you contacted them
zealous ridge
This isn’t relevant to yharon or scal being bad difficulty jumps, really
Well that would just be annoying tbh
digital saddle
it would force you to actually avoid his projectiles
zealous ridge
Because like, you can’t really predict where he’s gonna latch
void kelp
@plain oasis i strongly suggest reading the pins— for one, re-adding removed content is a “don’t” and for two, in the mod’s config files you can change boss HP scaling yourself
void kelp
@coral jungle @graceful wagon id be more specific with your suggestions since your requests right now have no anecdotal or statistical backing; it also helps to be able to explain why
damn, rover isn’t here so I can’t ask what they’d consider a SIS in disguise since some things are basically SIS without the crafting recipe
sand umbra
I can try to clarify, I suppose
carmine island
Oooh music sugg
shell grotto
@graceful wagon yharon is not hard, just learn the pattern
carmine island
"Not hard just learn the pattern"
Could say that about any boss and people could still struggle :P
shell grotto
I never suggested any boss was hard
carmine island
I know, it's just a peeve of mine when people call certain difficult things "easy"
late cypress
They have never suggest any of the bosses were easy either
radiant meadow
Blocking projectiles is intended
Be glad that projectiles don't home in on her anymore 
severe maple
I see
sand umbra
see I'd agree with blocking projectiles being intended
except Clone is a fairly large obstacle to be shooting around
and her brothers love to hide behind her despite being arguably the biggest threat in the fight
so a lot of time is spent just shooting in some awkward-ass arc around Clonamitas herself and hoping the relevant brother is hit
carmine island
Clone is moving constantly and the brothers lag behind, usually literally behind clone, after their charges
sand umbra
byeah like
sturdy pelican
make long skybridge
spam damage
sand umbra
Clonamitas' AI, as you lot probably know, builds very noticeably off of that of Retinazer
sturdy pelican
mhm
carmine island
Death mode trauma embedded that into my brain
sand umbra
one preserved feature is that she tends to go to the side of the player a lot to fire shit
now consider:
sturdy pelican
one preserved feature is that she tends to go to the side of the player a lot to fire shit
cries in s cal
sand umbra
brothers move in such a fashion that they are almost always lagging behind when they're not charging
carmine island
The fire breathing one is straight up slow spasmatism
sand umbra
hopefully you can already see where this is going
sturdy pelican
think so
sand umbra
it ends up being to where
Clonamitas literally just drops down to gobble up all your attacks
carmine island
Clone is in your face and the brothers are the ones in the back, unable to be hit without piercing weapons
sand umbra
keeping her brothers entirely safe
carmine island
Melee's best weapon at that point (to my knowledge) is vampire knives
Which has no pierce
sand umbra
meanwhile when she's not at your side...you're busy shaking Catastrophe and Cataclysm off your tail
also, Vamp Knives are post-Plantera
sturdy pelican
isn’t clomatias pre plantera
sand umbra
Clonamitas is supposedly balanced to be pre-Plantera
carmine island
I fight clone post plant
Much easier and less mind melting with the dungeon weaponry
sturdy pelican
okay well judging by wiki progression
shell grotto
It is supposed to be an alternate gatekeeper
sand umbra
(except her health pool without her brothers almost hits that of Plantera and she has two very tanky brothers which you must take on twice each throughout the fight)
(let's just say there's a reason balancing things around Clonamitas and Plantera is...an experience)
sturdy pelican
(and is basically EoC/Twins)
carmine island
5 bosses rolled into one with a kickass theme and a whole lots laser sounds
shell grotto
True
sand umbra
point is, Clonamitas has this tendency to just soak up hits like a sponge at the points you'd otherwise have to actually hit her brothers
queen sail
why do y’all say clonelamitas instead of doppelcal smh
sand umbra
which is arguably why this sugg exists; to make hitting her brothers not fucking ass to pull off
sand umbra
(bonus points: it'd also indirectly help with kill time reduction to bring her closer to Plantera's level)
carmine island
Her on her own isnt too much, but her being 99.99% tanky to everything plus a charging piece of shit with a 3rd of her health...
queen sail
I remember when clone was intended to be a plant alt and just
sand umbra
(Clonamitas' ability to soak up everything like a sponge due to humongous chungus DR combined with the tankiness of her brothers tends to contribute quite heavily to the perceived length of her fight)
queen sail
Unlocked half of the shit you could get just by killing plant
carmine island
The in your face part doesnt matter on her own is the point (I think) I'm trying to make
queen sail
Which was generally considered to be easier 
sturdy pelican
queen sail
Good thing they changed it 
carmine island
Didnt plant used to unlock abyss materials?
carmine island
That's why I was so confused this update...
queen sail
Plant unlocked abyss and dungeon stuff
sand umbra
and now Clonamitas has exactly one (1) unique unlock aside from like a select few Ashes of Calamity items
is generally agreed to be a tougher fight
and overall is...still not in a great place
sand umbra
Calamity is. an experience to comprehend once you hit Hardmode
Cryogen is the "you should totally fight this first" boss but actually no
carmine island
I've spent so much time in vanilla I Kinda skipped the mech bosses to get into the calamity bosses
sturdy pelican
Cryogen is “I’m so gonna kick your ass”
sand umbra
Cryo is an actual boss now so we'll see
carmine island
I used the Yin Yo and couldnt see shit the whole time
queen sail
Hint: turn off storm effects
sturdy pelican
it doesn’t help his projectiles mix with the fucking background
queen sail
I usually do anyways because the blizzard bg lags the shit out of my toaster laptop
carmine island
Alchemist npc adds a greater danger sense potion. Pretty useful for bosses like cryo and pbg
queen sail
Same with sandstorm bg
sand umbra
Cryo has a ton of new attacks/AI as of a couple updates ago and all of his projectiles mix with the background even regardless of storm effects
sturdy pelican
don’t get me started on prov’s droplets that stick to platforms
those can fuck right off
carmine island
I feel like Clonamitas is supposed to be a big boss in progression from how climactic the music is. But gotta be honest, not a good idea to put her right next to one of terraria's most iconic bosses
sand umbra
it's supposed to be one of the bigger fights
but also...Plantera exists
and unlocks everything in the goddamn universe
carmine island
Calamitas is cool but...
queen sail
Tbh isn’t eoc more iconic
carmine island
Plantera
queen sail
Considering it’s literally the boss in almost every promotional material
carmine island
Dungeon, chests, temple...
Clone: 2 materials
The metal tinks, black background, laser sounds, and spammy charges make for a forgettable fight imo
She attacked me randomly, I killed her, and instantly forgot anything that happened in the boss fight
Calamitas Clone is just a forgettable boss fight.
sand umbra
Plantera gives the following:
HM Dungeon enemies
Biome Keys
the literally Jungle Temple
Autohammer/Shroomite
Cyborg
Ectoplasm, which grants Spectre + seasonal moons
new Solar Eclipse shit
Pygmy Staff unlocks + Vials of Venom
Great Sand Shark
Perennial Ore
Armored Diggers (if solely for the inclusion of Lead Wizard)
Solar Veils (if Clonamitas is not yet dead)
Clonamitas gives the following:
Ashes of Calamity
HM Abyss stuff
Solar Veils (if Plantera is not yet dead)
carmine island
And before both bosses unlocked all of that, right?
sand umbra
what no
lime cradle
what’s lead wizard?
carmine island
Ok I just had a stroke hold up
queen sail
Before it was worse
wooden wedge
a RIV
queen sail
Clone unlocked what it says on thomas’ list
Plant
Unlocked all of that fucking shit
sand umbra
Plantera used to also unlock HM Abyss mats, yes
carmine island
Oh ffs no wonder I've been struggling I forgot about the new eclipse shit
TOO MUCH SHIT THATS THE PROBLEM 
sand umbra
I was actually the one who bit the bullet and requested/suggested that HM Abyss mats become exclusive to Clonamitas
carmine island
sand umbra
because by the time I made the sugg...Clonamitas completely lacked any unique unlocks aside from Ashes
note that the sugg in question predates Brimflame armor
queen sail
Which you’d only use for endgame stuff in the long run
sleek wadi
What if Clone was placed further in progression and was the thing to fill the Plant-Golem gap
queen sail
sand umbra
there are already two bosses balanced between Plantera and Golem
queen sail
Also spark fab yeeted deus to post cultist because of that
carmine island
Post cultist pre ML
queen sail
Didn’t help that aureus and deus were back to back
carmine island
Because WHY
sleek wadi
Hm. reel in Aureus to Plant tier
carmine island
I made a sugg about Aureus.
First sugg I ever made and had confidence about
sand umbra
Aureus is already Plantera tier
it's literally balanced around being post-Plantera despite being fightable at any time
sleek wadi
Not post-Plant, as in literally on plants tier
carmine island
This doods Spawns teleport into my projectiles
hybrid fjord
So is fishron
queen sail
Anyone fight aureus before plant
carmine island
Hell no
queen sail
Bc i usually do
sleek wadi
Have Aureus swap places with Clone in progression 
carmine island
Could work
hybrid fjord
Calamitas - Aureus - Plantera
lime cradle
have ml swap places with clone in progression,,,,,,,,,,
sand umbra
Astrum Deus is...honestly fine where it is
carmine island
Deus should be post ML instead of post Cultist is all I'm sayin
carmine island
Lunar Events can fuck off
queen sail
I’m pretty sure the issue with trying to move deus is that everywhere else near it has enough bosses
hybrid fjord
It just breaks the flow
sleek wadi
Immediately post-ML has 2 bosses in Birb and Guardians, before Cultist has 3 in Fish, PBG, and Ravager
hybrid fjord
Pillar, Pillar, Pillar, w o r m, Pillar
queen sail
Post plant you have aureus and levi
carmine island
Post lunar I'm doing nothing but ml
queen sail
Post golem you have pbg, fish bitch, and ravager
carmine island
Golem kicked my ass ngl
queen sail
Post ml you get donut holes and bumblechumb (and prov if you want)
ashen warren
replace DoGs spot with deus
hybrid fjord
Maybe buff Deus and move him to old duke tier
ashen warren
make DoG one of the endgame lads
queen sail
Spark confirming that AD is canonically stronger than DoG??????? :pogooo:
sleek wadi
He fucking is, I don't buy that kill in lore for shit.
hybrid fjord
Astrum Deus is a god, though that doesn’t mean much
sleek wadi
AD was large enough to be mistaken for stars, no way in hell DoG is even large enough to cause a cut.
queen sail
Well if you count all sentinels as one boss anyway
carmine island
Jesus how many gods does the player kill
lime cradle
like 4 so far
carmine island
5?
queen sail
Also dog intentionally got vored and ate him out from the inside iirc spark
sand umbra
not even mistaken for stars, it was the god of the stars
lime cradle
slime god
astrum deus
yharon
crabulon(?)
hybrid fjord
Provi, Slime God, Deus, Moon Lord
ashen warren
DoG is meant to have pocket dimension universe fuckery
sand umbra
the lights in the night sky? twinkling bits of its incomprehensibly large segments
lime cradle
oh providence too
sleek wadi
His insides would still be larger than fucking planets and that's a lowball, he ain't doing shit in there.
carmine island
Real quick tho
Deus's theme sounds like an Anime Intro
ashen warren
providence is actually nerfed lorewise iirc
hybrid fjord
A lot of dokuro’s shit sound like an anime intro
lime cradle
she is yes
carmine island
But this one the most
zenith hazel
ok that's cool and all but what does this have to do with suggestions
carmine island
Uhhhh...
queen sail
I dunno
ashen warren
mods abrasive as usual, but accurate
carmine island
It started at Clone
sand umbra
wait a minute this is sugma disc 
queen sail
That’s just #sugg disc for you
sand umbra
how did we get here
carmine island
Ended in Deus's theme
queen sail
Thomas why are you asking that
sand umbra
I don't know
zenith hazel
I don't see how telling people to get back on topic is abrasive but sure
sleek wadi
Love tangents. We were talking about clones point in progression, then got to aureus, then deus and now this.
sand umbra
zenith hazel
anyway, moving on
queen sail
Anyway brav we were talking about clone in comparison to plant
carmine island
And the 8/1 ratio of added shit
hybrid fjord
Yeah clone doesn’t unlock a lot but she does drop vigil so that kinda makes up for it /s
queen sail
carmine island
I dont remember if vigil is useful for melee
hybrid fjord
It’s a busted summon
lime cradle
imo not every boss has to unlock tons of stuff
carmine island
Oh wait
lime cradle
like pbg unlocks
nothing
but it’s good where it is
carmine island
Thay triple summon that I used to break my game once?
lime cradle
it’s even more broken now
queen sail
Pbg is a boss
carmine island
Pbg is a weapons dump
carmine island
Still easier if fought after plant
lime cradle
why not just pretend that doesn’t exist
carmine island
And plant isnt the toughest boss
lime cradle
and say it’s a post plant boss
sleek wadi
It was originally a plant alternative, but then redcode was like "no bitch dungeon is hardcoded" so here we are.
hybrid fjord
well shit
queen sail
It still begs me to question no matter how many times I hear it from the devs about just how ass terraria’s code is sometimes
ashen warren
it's bad enough that dev comments apologize to the people who read it iirc
lime cradle
it’s got a lot of questionable decisions
hybrid fjord
Considering that 1.4 is the end I’m hoping they sort the spaghetti code to make modding easier, considering that’ll be a main source of the game’s longevity
sand umbra
private static string noteToEveryone = "This code is terrible and you will risk cancer reading it --Yoraiz0r";
carmine island
Good thing I can't read!
carmine island
The theme of clone (not music) is very dark and edgy compared to the other bosses before and after. Fits in with the weird placement of her fight progression wise.
Going from... jungle beast and possibly ancient temple to Black and red is straining on the brain
I legit forgot she existed until she just spawned randomly
hybrid fjord
Clone should be moved to PBG tier imo
carmine island
Move ashes of Calamity to Brimmy post golem and buff her accordingly
queen sail
That’s 4 bosses post golem
carmine island
Fixed the problem of the material
hybrid fjord
Add a pre-boss boss
carmine island
Nah I think what we have now is good
Wait
WAIT
I had a brain fart reading that
lime cradle
why not just do post plant, makes sense why the clone would canonically “find you” or whatever
some sort of dark magic, power, etc etc
carmine island
I fell asleep for a second.
hybrid fjord
We don’t have many pre mech bosses
carmine island
We got cryogen aaaaand that's about it?
hybrid fjord
Yeah pretty much
hybrid fjord
AS and brimmy are meant to be fought amidst the mechs
lime cradle
but clone is a weird boss to make pre mech
since it’s supposed to be used to contain calamitas
hybrid fjord
So technically there isn’t a pre-mech boss?
carmine island
Cryogen boss rights
lime cradle
no not really
carmine island
CRYOGEN BOSS RIGHTS
lime cradle
melt it
carmine island
Probably the most spammy boss next to SCal
hybrid fjord
I SAID “THERE ISN’T A PRE MECH BOSS”
carmine island
Cryo pre mech tho
hybrid fjord
no
carmine island
yes
lime cradle
cryo is destroyer alt
hybrid fjord
shut
hybrid fjord
But yeah pre mech Calamitas would be odd
Maybe some bosses need to be shuffled around
carmine island
Make Calamitas post ML imagine
hybrid fjord
That’s a bit too close to SCal
ashen warren
the calamitas clone is meant to be a threat to the real deal lorewise
ashen warren
it was cut off part of the way though, so it's a mere shadow of the original
carmine island
So this comes down to a lore v. gameplay scenario?
ashen warren
a mere shadow can be just before DoG to pre king slime
what matters is the story and game you want to make
and unfortunately the calamity devs are very, very unclear about creative vision a lot of the time
hybrid fjord
People always say that the game has to choose between lore and gameplay and fail to acknowledge that “both” is an option
carmine island
-Friendly remind this started from a Clone Cal brother phase suggestion
subtle oracle
When will Rover return guys?
lime cradle
lore is getting overhauled anyway
ashen warren
when he does
subtle oracle
Okay...
hybrid fjord
TBD
subtle oracle
I have a Paragraph of a sugg ready, but i'll hold off on it for now until Rover returns because i think now is not the optimal time
unkempt bolt
rover said he'd be gone for a little bit
don't know if he specified
said it was for school though
subtle oracle
Like all of us
subtle oracle
Its okay, just be productive and use your time wisely.. Also use Google because it explains things better than anything else
unkempt bolt
new mods are being chosen from apps on the 24th, so maybe someone for suggs could be appointed then?
if rover isn't returning before then
wooden wedge
I don't think being mod works that way
unkempt bolt
i mean i didn't literally mean "your job is suggs"
wooden wedge
also pretty sure rover's coming back before that
and mod apps are closing on the 24th, not being chosen
unkempt bolt
"We will choose the new moderators on April 24th or when we receive enough applications."
not sure what else im supposed to make from this
wooden wedge
oh,
zenith hazel
it means there will be new trial mods, completely irrelevant to suggs
unkempt bolt
ah, wasn't sure how suggs really works in that regard
subtle oracle
The past 2-3 convos here have been irrelevant to suggs
carmine island
Clone to Deus's theme gonna be my favorite irrelevant conversation I've ever had
carmine island
I like Yharon where he is.
Teleporting phase is the only downside of his whole fight.
warped tide
teleporting phase is only even an issue if you don't use a shield
you can invalidate it by using a charge shield and charging through him each time he tps for iframes
mighty knot
@vivid galleon if it's so inexpensive to make, just make it
indigo fog
I mean there's still no reason for it to cost that much
vivid galleon
Yeah, it's inexpensive to make, so why is it so expensive to buy?
Plus, you got nothing for selling it
night cradle
I think it's that expensive because at that point you can get a ton of money from bullying certain bosses (namely: Aquatic Scourge, Cryogen, Golem, etc. on Armageddon)
It's also fairly expensive because it's an unlimited source of these summons, which don't require you to go farming different materials, or at least not as much as in comparsion to farming money from bosses (which doesn't usually take long anyway)
hollow shell
oh good lord there's ❕ everywhere
oh good lord some of these suggestions
Remind me to clone myself before I take any more breaks
ashen warren
name says otherwise
wooden wedge
ashen warren
heh, nice one
hollow shell
I dunno if it'd be worth it to go through and request changes for nearly all of these
wooden wedge
I mean we've tried our best
too many ditchers and people who just didn't delete their suggs
or edit them
and skoores
tepid root
i like how a few suggestions after a suggestion that said to nerf yharon there was one to buff both yharon and scal
also skoores lol
hollow shell
I'll just mention this one for now because it really bothers me
@hybrid fjord https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/698480264577417247
You really really need a reason for this.