oh yeah
#suggestions-discussion
radiant meadow
star cannon in calamity can crit too
sand umbra
Star Cannon normally cannot crit
dry grotto
Ohh. Is that since previous update, ben?
digital saddle
what do you guys think of suggesting a weaker ceaseless hunger potion
maybe late hardmode available
radiant meadow
I don't remember when I did it
tired haven
Another cool fact is that star ammo dmg is -1
radiant meadow
but it's been a thing for a few updates
dry grotto
I wanna see an upgrade to the coin gun
sand umbra
digital saddle
with meld blobs and fragments everywhere frmo pillars, i usually end up just using luiafk loot magnet
copper orchid
Coin gun has it even worse than star cannon as far as ammo goes
digital saddle
because its so easy to miss some
radiant meadow
star cannon + coin gun đł
sand umbra
ben no
radiant meadow
must require a star and a coin to use
digital saddle
is plat coin gun actually good
radiant meadow
pay to win
sand umbra
the Lucky Star Cannon
neat crescent
Coin gun has it even worse than star cannon as far as ammo goes
except money is very very easy to get in rev+
dry grotto
The bling flinger
copper orchid
Micro transaction gun?
neat crescent
speaking of which
tired haven
Plat coin gun has more dps than sdmg
sand umbra
I'd agree with you, Landkon
neat crescent
sugg to make the price of minishark higher y/n
tired haven
But you won't afford it
radiant meadow
you lose a good chunk of your money if you die though lol
digital saddle
just do arma defiled eow/boc
sand umbra
except you need to use gold or plat for Coin Gun to be a worthwhile investment
digital saddle
and get like 5 plat or more a kill
sand umbra
gold is arguably the best choice for Coin Gun
tired haven
Spending 10 plat/s be like
sand umbra
does appreciable damage but won't literally eat your wallet for breakfast
dry grotto
That's why i feel like an upgrade for a cool concept would be nice
sand umbra
I honestly prefer Coin Gun being unique
radiant meadow
of course don't forget automatically converting coins
radiant meadow
when you get more money
tired haven
In vanilla you have to stay on silver, calamity may be able to move to gold, ye
digital saddle
and it fires 10/s?
copper orchid
Each coin has 200 damage. So thatâs 2000 dps
digital saddle
lol
vocal wing
oh god
digital saddle
that might be good for vanilla
dry grotto
But that's 10 plat coins per second
digital saddle
dont remember
sand umbra
so let's see
copper orchid
Definitely strong in vanilla, but a bit too expensive to be worthwhile
digital saddle
not fantastic for calamity
sand umbra
Coin Gun's useTime & useAnimation are 8
vocal wing
what's the damage for a gold coin
marble mirage
time to bust out the unlimited plat coin
sand umbra
this means it fires on average 7.5 coins per second
tired haven
You can use rapid reforge for 6 usetime
dry grotto
7.5 plat per second 
radiant meadow
- crits, ranger bonuses, weapon modifier, etc
tired haven
iirc at least
marble mirage
100 damage for gold coin
vapid moat
now fight scal with coin gun
tired haven
Agile makes it 7 for sure
marble mirage
coin minigun
tired haven
No thanks
vocal wing
consumes halibut cannons as ammo
LOL
dry grotto
Yes
vocal wing
Yes please
neat crescent
it just instakills everything on screen
dry grotto
I mean, is it hard to code the coin gun then?
marble mirage
tbh i would somewhat like a coin gun upgrade, since it's such a unique weapon
probably would be a bitch to balance though
dry grotto
Compared to other guns
radiant meadow
it's not hard to make a new kind of ammo
tired haven
Who knows tbh, aside from vanilla devs
marble mirage
that and it's a bad idea waiting to happen
neat crescent
maybe a coin gun upgrade would have like double damage with the ability to toggle specific levels of coins to fire
fading prism
Increase the drop rates of blood orbs, or increase the chance of catching Xerocodiles
- Right now it is extremely tedious to farm out a meaningful amount of blood orbs for potions (even more so for combination potions like Yharim's stimulants and cadance potions) or bloodstone cores because of their low drop rate (10% from enemies without bloodflare armor) and the only other method of fishing for Xerocodiles also having a low chance to catch (6.67% or close to 1/15) even with high tier fishing poles and the supreme bait tackle box.
- The drop rate of blood orbs or the chance of catching Xerocodiles should be increased as right now farming out blood orbs doesn't add anything meaningful to gameplay other than just more mindless farming (especially before the player has access to zerg potions) and the alternative of grinding herbs and fish to craft the potions is not much better.
Thoughts?
vocal wing
it's not hard to make a new kind of ammo
It's hard to farm adult eidolons
neat crescent
isnt farming blood orbs in death mode very very easy to do
dry grotto
Blood coins
fading prism
afaik there's no change to drop rates in death
neat crescent
but like there's just so many enemies during blood moons
marble mirage
they drain your life while firing
neat crescent
an upgrade to the coin gun that uses stacks of 999 plat coins as ammo
radiant meadow
Internet died again cool.
marble mirage
before we get a coin gun upgrade though
we should make the cutlass actually good first
vocal wing
No, it should be like this
the coins represent the tiers of damage
like: copper coin is shit tier damage
But we can upgrade the gun during the playtrough
radiant meadow
anyways, you can set new ammo types pretty easily
neat crescent
GRealm has a similar idea to that
although its a seperate crafting line and doesnt include the coin gun
vocal wing
But we can upgrade the gun during the playtrough
Not too much because it would be a pain to balance, but 1-2 upgrades would be fine
tired haven
There was ore/bar gun idea like 2 years ago so yknow
digital saddle
i feel like the elephant gun type stuff doesnt really work
does anyone else agree
marble mirage
i think thorium has an ore gun
neat crescent
what does elephant gun do again?
vocal wing
I've never used the elephant gun
marble mirage
i never bothered with those guns
vocal wing
Who has ever used it?
neat crescent
speedrunners
radiant meadow
It has one
weak field
I mean using only blood orb
radiant meadow
That won't happen
ashen warren
It's an extremely powerful potion
radiant meadow
For balancing purposes
weak field
Back to getting rekt by Yharon a thousand times then
ancient crow
Ok whoever suggested that stealth should be activated and then last a certain amount of time like adren
thatâs... not how stealth works
vocal wing
When did necroplasm become unhittable?
weak field
Potion of Omniscience requires 20 blood orbs while all components of it need a net value of 30 blood orbs. Is this intended to encourage us to use more blood orbs?
digital saddle
are you shooting at the wrong one?
vocal wing
I'll rewrite my answer
Did polterghast recieve some changes recently?
digital saddle
not afaik
vocal wing
https://youtu.be/0kyw3Yc0NJc?t=4205
on that frame you see the polterghast and its clone
Both can be hit
wooden wedge
@vocal wing you can't kill the Poulter clone
tired haven
Yeah that was changed
vocal wing
When?
tired haven
Don't ever refer to yt in future unless dated later than last update, stuff tends to be changed
wooden wedge
After 1.4.3.1
vocal wing
oh sorry
ashen warren
why do people still give their own example of "first trying" a boss
it depends on so many factors
most of the time inaccurate
copper orchid
I think it would be better to give examples of killing a boss consistently despite taking damage. Thereâs too many factors in a first fight.
frail mantle
isn't FS' job to be a tank-like Summon armor
loud parcel
doesn't feel like it to me
ashen warren
it gives less summon slots and damage in exchange for survivability yes
radiant meadow
it's being moved to post clone
I didn't realize planty mush was a pre mech material, so that's an oversight on my part
digital saddle
summoner deserves better defenses in general
the class has lower effective range than melee
tired haven
Meh tbh
loud parcel
debatable
frail mantle
also tbh i feel like FS should only give one summon slot, it gives the player as many slots as the daedalus summon set and twice as much damage
radiant meadow
also, I can give throwing bricks a chance to be retrieved
digital saddle
i always run out of them before the first night
copper orchid
Well, daedalus is early hm
digital saddle
and it takes like 5 to kill a blue slime
frail mantle
like, i know that FS is meant to be better than Daedalus, but it giving 50% increased makes it seem like a "slots for damage" type of set, something which it isn't currently
it gives almost twice the damage bonus of Spider armor with only one slot less
tired haven
I'd rather compare that to spooky then, which has only 57% dmg despite being full glass post-plantera set
Which is... a bit concerning, yes
loud parcel
in any case, still nerf :/
frail mantle
yea
digital saddle
reaver summon is 
bitter drift
@digital saddle throwing bricks are craftable tho
loud parcel
ye
tired haven
3 bricks*
bitter drift
i'm not saying they are good definitively trash
radiant meadow
gave them a 50% chance to be recovered
copper orchid
FS armor gets perks underwater on top of its stats too
bitter drift
an idea i have is to make them always stealth strike for the you can't get them back
copper orchid
So itâs 62% damage and 57 defense underwater
digital saddle
its such a pain in the ass to make an arena
radiant meadow
amalgam needs to be changed ye
radiant meadow
fathom swarmer underwater bonuses are meant to be used for abyss exploration
loud parcel
because i used it in a ranger playthrough about a year back
bitter drift
how about calamity will add something that allows you to be submerged at all times
loud parcel
and it was really good
digital saddle
is there a reason calamity removes every true lava immunity?
loud parcel
fish bowl 
bitter drift
xD
ashen warren
it's a config option, hail
digital saddle
yeah im not against it im just wodnering why]
loud parcel
i'm pretty sure obsidian skin still gives true lava immunity
copper orchid
No it doesnât
copper orchid
Lethal lava still inflicts damage
digital saddle
maybe if there was a lava abyss equivalent
digital saddle
but there isnt a lot of reason to spend your time in lava post hellstone
bitter drift
giant bucket
accessory
allow you to be submerged at all times
made from 10 Iron ingots at an anvil with water
combo with victide armor, amalgam and other water related buffs
down side: you will drown if you don't breath in water
digital saddle
a lava scourge boss would actually be epic
if there was some lava ocean on the right side of hell
loud parcel
why would you be wearing victide armor that late in the game
bitter drift
bruh this is pre boss
loud parcel
then why would you say amalgam
copper orchid
Are you saying like a fishbowl but it provides underwater bonuses? Thatâs a bit much.
loud parcel
đ¤
bitter drift
because you can combo it with it
loud parcel
but amalgam ain't pre-boss
bitter drift
you don't understand me at all huh
digital saddle
i wish reaver armor stayed relevant longer
its so easy to skip perennial and just rush golem
bitter drift
it can be comboed with stuff like the amalgam and the victide armor
doesn't mean you have to wear them
digital saddle
hydrothermic is good wym
loud parcel
i just stick with the vanilla armors
bitter drift
the booster needs a buff
digital saddle
useful up to moon lord
loud parcel
(beetle, shroomite, spectre, spooky)
digital saddle
cries in rogue
bitter drift
melee ranger mage summoner
loud parcel
umbraphile
digital saddle
better
loud parcel
đ¤
bitter drift
so should i suggest it?
digital saddle
so reaver is very skippable
loud parcel
i don't get hydrothermic
simply because i don't want to waste my bars
on something that'll be replaced in about 1-2 bosses
copper orchid
@misty fractal you might have to give a better reason than just âfighting plantera every time is too muchâ. The grind counts for something.
bitter drift
i sold 7000 of them after grinding 100 platerras for the blossom flux
didn't get it
misty fractal
well, thats actually a good point
ashen warren
you could also suggest that she drops more, to make the fighting her less grindy
misty fractal
sounds good too..:'v
loud parcel
actually let me edit my suggestion real quick
bitter drift
allow some way to submerge yourself in water without always standing in a liquid tile
Items like the amalgam and the victide set are weak or not reaching their true potential Solley for the reason that you need to find a water tile and be in it for the full effect to take place adding a way (like an accessory consumable or any other way) to get submerged quickly without much preparation will make these Item's reward much more beneficial for the player.
tired haven
Eh
copper orchid
Water exploration items are meant to stay underwater. Stuff like deep diver
tired haven
Like, i don't really have anything to say against that, but the idea seems to cut on design/strategies
loud parcel
@bitter drift shouldn't this go in #suggestions-voting
dry grotto
i really wanna suggest making the hotline fishing hook obtainable pre-hm
cause i really don't understand why it's a hm only hook
tired haven
Suggestions are previewed in this channel
bitter drift
from you jumpped to that
copper orchid
Soul slurper
loud parcel
slurper pole yes
dry grotto
i knew, just don't get why hotline fishing hook is post-wof
loud parcel
that's how terraria is
copper orchid
Thatâs for vanilla
loud parcel
ye
copper orchid
Hot line is from the base game. Inferno potion is considered hard mode for vanilla terraria
bitter drift
any way crab let me tell you a story, i in my first world of calamity did the only way to submerged yourself in water in the game it took me a lot of time and with little reward
it was for the Yharon fight
after i beaten Yharon i realized that vertical height is much more important then length
dry grotto
it is
tired haven
In that case in particular it would boil down to "will amalgam + anything else + that accessory be better than cotbg and Co."
If yes, then people will switch one to another
If not, then nothing changed
loud parcel
i feel like amalgam and CotBG should be on the same level
bitter drift
can you really call it a strategy? just flood the world for the effect to take place?
loud parcel
so people can pick an choose which one they prefer
instead of one being better than the other
tired haven
It's just like any excessive arena design, indeed a strategy
Doesn't make it any less obsolete but yknow
loud parcel
maybe you could make the amalgam bonuses always active
bitter drift
there is a difference between making a platform above the sans to kill DS and literally flood your world with the infinite water trick
loud parcel
although that might be a little unbalanced
copper orchid
You could still flood the jungle without having to take up a whole accessory slot for a Yharon fight.
Bottomless water bucket exists
bitter drift
i didn't use any slots to flood the world
tired haven
Platform for ds is not excessive arena design
bitter drift
i flood the world to use an accessory
and beside it was a long time ago
i don't think it was in
copper orchid
But what Iâm saying is that your suggestion idea falls along the line of taking up a slot for underwater bonuses
bitter drift
and debuffs as well :/
in fact fighting Yharon in the abyss sounds like a better idea then flooding my world
copper orchid
You need to be in the jungle to summon him
bitter drift
lizard bricks exist
copper orchid
@small quiver Asking for cosmetics for nohits in every boss is a bit much. That would be a new set for nearly 40 bosses.
gray nebula
saying that bosses in arma arent rewarding
bosses in arma litterally drop more loot
unkempt bolt
to comment on the fathom swarmer sugg
fathom swarmer does less overall dps than spider due to the lost minion
gray nebula
fathom swarmer is getting tier shifted anyways
unkempt bolt
iâve tested it multiple times, it has about 20% less dps than spider
closer to 10% when submerged
loud parcel
20% damage for double the defense seems a bit strong in my opinion
but it's still going to be moved to post-clone
where it might still outclass spooky
copper orchid
Spooky armor by comparison gives an additional summon when compared to full fathom
And spooky does more damage overall
rugged belfry
Uh
copper orchid
Except when submerged, which is partially negligible
loud parcel
yeah but what i'm saying is the armors should not be this close in terms of damage
gray nebula
why
loud parcel
spooky and FS are 6% apart
gray nebula
why would we switch that
frail mantle
am i really the only person that finds rev+ golem to be pretty hard
gray nebula
that's like a total rebalance 
digital saddle
yea
copper orchid
That kind of a progression swap seems entirely unnecessary.
loud parcel
^
and that wouldn't work
because the game is hardcoded
to not allow power cells to be used
till plantera is dead
digital saddle
didnt they already change that
loud parcel
meaning they'd have to craft the old power cell every time
loud parcel
hailfall, it can't be changed
copper orchid
Thatâs too hard to even implement
tired haven
Power cells are still hardcoded
loud parcel
vanilla features are ridiculously hardocded into the game
unkempt bolt
golem is harder than plant anyways imo
loud parcel
i know from experience
copper orchid
Youâd have to go and mess with vanilla code
loud parcel
why though
frail mantle
consider
tired haven
đ
frail mantle
[[Old Power Cell]]
red stormBOT
loud parcel
yeah i considered that
copper orchid
Just leave it behind golem. No need for extra requirements for low%
loud parcel
^
copper orchid
@rugged belfry Tall gates and trapdoors are like that in that they are both useful but obscure. Having essentially functional copies of those doesnât really add much. Also, the âIâll keep this short and sweetâ counts as excess text. You should remove it if you plan on leaving your suggestion up.
viscid dagger
So I've been thinking of asking for an ability to change the damage, defense, and attack speed of bosses in the Config? Do y'all think its good enough. My reason is that fighting bosses with purely altered health can get boring and it can also make re-fighting bosses a bit more fun
rugged belfry
@copper orchid Wdym, doesn't really add much?
frail mantle
re-adding old content (including sprites) is a don't iirc
copper orchid
I mean that they still exist in the game and work just the same. A new addition to an already obscure item such as the tall gate would require a new sprite
rugged belfry
How often have you used, say, trapped chests?
ashen warren
@unique vector
copper orchid
@viscid dagger Seems like a bit much for a config option. It would have to be post-Scal to ensure that players arenât trying to reduce boss stats for an easy fight. Even then, a mechanic that would allow for boss configuration sounds excessive on top of what we already have
viscid dagger
Yeah that's true
My reason was that we already had health, so why not the whole package. Saying it now doesn't sound good lmao
copper orchid
It was an idea. At least you tried to consult people before putting something like that up
neat lodge
Perhaps instead of a config, a new mode to double all their stats?
viscid dagger
That could be cool
copper orchid
New modes are off-limits for suggestions
neat lodge
Ah, sorry didnt know (just thought to suggest a change to what was said)
loud parcel
i'm pretty sure resprites are off-limits as well
so the birb suggestion might be disregarded
ashen warren
pixl afk so lole @ashen warren do the do iirc
gray nebula
ashen warren
i hope they change LEVIATHAN
tawny gyro
bruh
ashen warren
ig terry's also afk, @cyan lagoon ya around to do the do?
wooden wedge
@topaz pagoda they changed it because it didn't fit the mod iirc
gray nebula
crine
topaz pagoda
ruined it
wooden wedge
that's subjective
ashen warren
frail mantle
old birb wasn't really a good sprite compared to modern Calamity sprites
unique vector
ping pong
gray nebula
certified bruh
gusty geode
I suggested a pet item that was old Birb a while back
ashen warren
do the do, pickle iirc
unique vector
what happened?
topaz pagoda
new birb is edgy
frail mantle
new birb actually looks like what it's supposed to be instead of a fat chicken nugget with wings
wooden wedge
it's supposed to be
topaz pagoda
I would rather choose a remake of the chubby birb
ashen warren
read up, the sugg about birb falls under a don't
unique vector
o yes thats true
rapid pivot
Add more powerful versions of Dynamite with a larger radius.
â Especially on higher difficulties, it is impossible to deny that building large-scale arenas isn't just a luxury, it's a necessity. However, it is painful to do in certain places compared to others; specifically, the Dungeon, the Underworld, and the Underground Jungle. Why? Because there's a ton of blocks you just need to get out of the way. It's well-known that for bosses such as Polterghast, the bigger the arena, the better the fight will go, and for Providence, an arena running the span of the underworld is virtually necessary to survive. Therefore, it only makes sense to add a building tool that would make it considerably less painful and slow to create the arenas for these higher-tier bosses on higher difficulties.
Thoughts?
gray nebula
too bad your opinion about birb doesnt matter 
wooden wedge
kinda a long explanation
frail mantle
hmm
tawny gyro
i like it
radiant meadow
Explosions are wack
frail mantle
by Post-ML you have the DCU which helps mining out large areas but i see where you're coming from
unique vector
@topaz pagoda please follow the do's and dont's for suggestions next time, requesting to revert to bumble's old sprite is not allowed
gusty geode
Some reference to old Birb would be nice tbh
copper orchid
I like the idea of a controlled explosion. Like you place certain blocks and connect them. Once they are connected, everything inside the block ring gets mined up based on max pickaxe power in inventory. Seems too complex to suggest though.
unique vector
plus we dont make content solely from adhering to people's opinions
topaz pagoda
why is suggestions a thing if above is stated
unique vector
constantly proclaiming your hate for the new sprite does not in any way put you in a good light nor does it persuade us to listen to more
rapid pivot
key word 'solely'
unique vector
^
tawny gyro
btw, how long does it take for a 120 star sugg to get reviewed by the mods?
frail mantle
eventuallyâ˘ď¸
terse sundial
once sent, 48 hours
rapid pivot
ava; got any thoughts on my sugg?
unique vector
we do take community suggestions, just not when they stem from unreasonable requests or silly reasons
i think adding a bigger dynamite is a little bit unnecessary
it would fit better if you made a tool that did the same thing
frail mantle
the devs have things to focus on, and if you want something in the mod you should have a good reason they'd use their time on said thing instead of other planned content
unique vector
would feel more unique and not just another "bomb but bigger"
unique vector
well that kinda
wooden wedge
maybe give explosives a higher use time?
unique vector
goes into mortar rounds
unique vector
mortar rounds are basically the destruction version of the clentaminator
tawny gyro
lower use time makes it faster
topaz pagoda
Howabout Old Birb pet instead
rapid pivot
true, but those are post-ML
unique vector
you might as well be asking for an astrageldon pet
copper orchid
That seems like a nostalgia based question
unique vector
^
copper orchid
Not really a valid reason to add new content
wooden wedge
so maybe for something like this instead of adding something new we could just give explosives a lower usetime
and maybe auto-use
if they don't have that
unique vector
requesting old content to be put back in any way when it was removed for specific reason, especially when it comes to sprites or entities is a no-no
frail mantle
^
cyan lagoon
topaz pagoda
just amazing
frail mantle
whenever something is straight up axed from the mod, there's usually a good reason for it
unique vector
that was before we banned it iirc
gray nebula
yeah
wooden wedge
astrageldon slime got shot because bad
gray nebula
yuh donated for it very quickly
unique vector
and we cant exactly reject a request after we already accepted it
rapid pivot
Add more early to midgame tools based on the idea of large-scale excavation.
â Especially on higher difficulties, it is impossible to deny that building large-scale arenas isn't just a luxury, it's a necessity. However, it is painful to do in certain places compared to others; specifically, the Dungeon, the Underworld, and the Underground Jungle. It's well-known that for bosses such as Polterghast, the bigger the arena, the better the fight will go, and for Providence, an arena running the span of the underworld is virtually necessary to survive. Therefore, it only makes sense to add building tools that would make it considerably less painful and slow to create the arenas for these higher-tier bosses on higher difficulties.
Think that's any better?
gray nebula
can't you just use DCU for polter
wooden wedge
that too
rapid pivot
key words; early to mid-game
wooden wedge
we're talking about calamity not luiafk
loud parcel
but i know everyone doesn't use luiafk
wooden wedge
byeah
tawny gyro
you say "early to mid-game" and then go on to talk about provi and polter
loud parcel
so it would be nice to see something like this
rapid pivot
yeah, lemme edit it some more
tawny gyro
btw, maybe there should be a way to place background walls quicker?
gray nebula
you don't really need any big areas in early game
tawny gyro
i still have ptsd after i've spent 5 days making a dungeon arena for CV and polter
rapid pivot
wall of flesh is why I made the sugg tbh
tawny gyro
5 days
rapid pivot
because making the arena for him is murder on death mode
wooden wedge
peace candles zen pots
loud parcel
i never make an arena for wof
wooden wedge
the other buffs
copper orchid
I think that another way to look at it from the perspective of Luiafk is that QoL already exists in the form of separate mods. Not really a top priority for calamity.
loud parcel
just water walking potion and pray for no geysers
tawny gyro
it's not about fighting monsters
rapid pivot
'no geysers'; yeah those things pop up every two seconds
tawny gyro
it's about using 8 stacks of walls per one 10-block high line
copper orchid
Iâd at least mine out obsidian structures.
rapid pivot
Add more early to midgame tools based on the idea of large-scale excavation.
â Especially on higher difficulties, it is impossible to deny that building large-scale arenas isn't just a luxury, it's a necessity. However, it is painful to do in certain places compared to others; specifically, the Dungeon, the Underworld, and the Underground Jungle. The biggest offender, especially on Death Mode, is the Wall of Flesh; you're going to be at the very least clearing out a large area in the underworld, even if you're not building an arena for him. Between obsidian and hellstone buildings, and mountains of ash, if you do not do this, it is very difficult to navigate Hell quickly enough to not get hit by the WoF. As a result, it's by far the most painful arena to make, because you're also making it before you get access to Hardmode resources. Therefore, tools like this would really help.
Final revision. Think it's good enough to post?
ashen warren
I've made a world with proper end game arenas xP Just need to touch things up and I can have it be a world download
tawny gyro
yeah, i think it's good
ashen warren
It also functions as a old ones Army farm, and an invasion farm.
wooden wedge
wrong chat talli?
sand umbra
you don't really need any big areas in early game
is this the point where I remind you of the absolute slog that is making a WoF arena on every playthrough
or setting up that 5-mile-wide Plantera arena the game demands you to have and then use almost none of until PBG
or re-making that Underworld arena but bigger and more usable later on for Providence and Signus
or literally obliterating the Brimstone Crag to make an arena for the Brimbo that lives there
or any of the other various meme-tier arena requirements that Calamity bosses tend to have
gray nebula
plantera and Wof are early game yep
sand umbra
WoF is the last pre-Hardmode boss and is a necessary fight at that
rapid pivot
by calamity standards; yes, WoF is early-game
gray nebula
not early enough
copper orchid
I think mid to late game demolitionist could do something.
tawny gyro
maybe you could craft some stuff with the explosive powder he sells?
i mean explosives
cuz you can already make bullets and such
wooden wedge
if you walk one direction you beat it
rapid pivot
or maybe reduce mortar round damage, but make it available earlier
wooden wedge
it's a simple boss
rapid pivot
it is, but that doesn't mean making it so you can walk in one direction is easy
tawny gyro
now that i think about it, the demolitionist does say something along the lines of "God Slayer Dynamite. Now wouldn't that be cool?"
sand umbra
you don't realize how much of a godsend Cheat Sheet's paint tool is until you realize the amount of arenabuilding you have to do for Rev+ WoF in any other scenario
wooden wedge
yeah
sand umbra
tawny gyro
or dungeon arena walls
frail mantle
i never bother manually making an arena for Waffle, i just CS paint tool until i have a gude arena
sand umbra
okay but like by the time you fight Ceaseless and Polter you have Unsafe Dungeon Walls and DCU + Blossom Pick + tons of block placement stuff
by WoF, you have nothing to put up with lava and constant enemy spawns...except for a Gelpick and some explosives
tawny gyro
yeah, and it still takes like 4 hours if you want to make a decent arena
sand umbra
WoF be like
sand umbra
sure, you can just make an obsidian brick bridge
but that still makes it a very...awkward fight because of how WoF's vertical movement works
tawny gyro
? not sure i get it
sand umbra
if you want something even remotely consistent, which you very much do for Rev+, you have to take the time to clear out enormous chungus amounts of space
and set up the rows of Ash Blocks accordingly
tawny gyro
i always do a bridge, even on death and it works wonders
only clearing out like 20 blocks up
sand umbra
so tl;dr WoF's vertical position depends on where Ash Blocks can be located in the immediate vertical space
tired haven
Mm, there is no difference if you use ash blocks or anything else
copper orchid
Mining potion and archaic powder do exist, but enemy spawn rate is awful.
tawny gyro
just do a second bridge using ash like 30 blocks above 
tired haven
The only matter is if you use 1 block thick floor or 2+
sand umbra
anywho, point is, you have to spend a ton of extra time setting that up if you want the fight to be consistent
copper orchid
Well, dirt and ash have the respective flowers growing on them. So building a bridge out of that makes those grow excessively
sand umbra
and even with just an obsidian brick/platform bridge...you still have the horrendously high spawn rates in Hell
those spawn rates alone make things infinitely worse than they need to be
sand umbra
bonus points: WoF is a required boss
so you have to go through this absolute slog every playthrough
no ifs, ands, or butts
night cradle
I don't think the spawnrates are the main source of the problem, but more the amount of time you need to clear out the terrain which allows the enemies to spawn in
If there was a more efficient way to create a suitable WoF arena I feel like this wouldn't be as much of an issue
tired haven
dunno about buts but your butt is indeed there
night cradle
but yeah, I agree with the overall point
sand umbra
honestly a lot of this just boils down to WoF as a boss not really being designed well at a fundamental level, but that's a topic for another time and place
copper orchid
Maybe add an accessory that lowers spawn rate in the underworld for post Skeletron, when you would naturally do that kind of fight. Mining equipment is available as a vanilla armor, vanilla potion, and calamity accessory. You canât use those, though, because enemies spawn like crazy (and the mining armor is rare) and you have to equip yourself to deal with those
tired haven
Calming potion accessory, indeed
sand umbra
please yes
night cradle
Preparations for WoF could be at least a bit faster than they are, in the means of terraforming
or that, yeah
sand umbra
would also give a chance to make more of a use for Demonic Bone Ash
couple that with like Calming Potions and Bones, and you have an accessory that makes setting up for WoF not quite as inherently horrible
tired haven
play summoner and then spawnrate doesn't exist
rapid pivot
tbh the thing about calamity is that it really heavily emphasizes mobility/being a glass cannon
except mobility requires large areas to move around in
sand umbra
well yes but imagine summoner when you can play the class that steals everything from everyone else and looks cool enough doing it to where people don't care
night cradle
that's also a thing for vanilla, not only calamity
copper orchid
Purgatory buff: not quite in hell. Lowers spawn rates drastically in underworld. Requires demonic ash and bones. Probably not gonna suggest this myself.
night cradle
having decent amounts of mobility options, a good arena and etc. makes fights way easier than they seem to be at first
sleek wadi
Vanilla also allowed you to take a tankier approach, and while that kind of exists in Calamity it is very heavily discouraged due to everything's high damage, invuln frame changes, and rev I think has a pretty prevalent defense reducing debuff. Not too sure on all the effects of Horror.
gilded pike
i thought i clicked on the enter the gungeon server and thought dodge roll was now taking suggestions for the game and got confused until i remembered what server i was in
rapid pivot
Def reduced by 15, movement stats reduced by 15%, dark vision. @sleek wadi
cloud surge
ultimus cleaver shouldn't be true melee imo, and also roxcalibur shoots so like no
gray nebula
and ultimus being true melee is stupid yea
cloud surge
id rather none
dry grotto
Make rox's right click true melee tho
cloud surge
by your logic everything should be try melee
dry grotto
That argument to my logic would work, if the roxcalibur didn't work exactly like the ultimus cleaver
cloud surge
if it shoots, not true melee. ultimus being true melee is stupid and should be removed
gray nebula
even if the donor agrees the devs can still deny it
karmic stone
m
weak field
If it shoots, kill it not true melee
Pew pew pew isn't exactly melee
If you want to pewpewpew
Ranger is a option
gray nebula
sounds painful
and liked bandit is the rogue npc, adding her without the rogue class would be kinda useless
weak field
Codewise you can say that hooks are also projectiles
Codewise you can say that pets are also projectiles
Codewise you can say that minions are also projectiles
cyan glen
Wtf
weak field
Codewise you can say that sentries are also projectiles
Minions and sentries are piercing projectiles
tired haven
I mean, they all are
(also yoyos aren't true melee because they are literally ranged projectiles)
A string is a visual regardless
weak field
And come on, you can't say that you're melee while defeating enemy afar
You need to do close combat
cyan glen
Yoyos true melee are yoyos without string
weak field
...?
tired haven
granite sphinx
cyan glen
But actually, yoyos with 0 distance of string should be true melee?
weak field
You would hit the enemy before the yoyo does...
Most yoyo fits inside the player sprite
cyan glen
That small is the hitbox?
dry grotto
i just don't get why they aren't, sure u might argue "u're beating them with range"
but look at flays
flails*
flails are true melee, so why aren't yoyos
weak field
How far can yoyo reach while how far can flail reach?
frail mantle
cause thrown flails are harder to use than yoyos, whip flails are actually connected to you and both feel like they'd actually be affected by how strong the player character is
also iirc flails will become true meleen't eventually
tired haven
Yoyos can reach up to 45 blocks rn when flails are mostly limited at 30
(and flails will get yeeted soon too yes)
dry grotto
but all yoyos that can reach 45 blocks aren't true melee
cause they unleash projectiles
i'm talking 'bout yoyos like hel-fire
frail mantle
you saw what i said, right
dry grotto
ohhh
ÂŻ_(ă)_/ÂŻ
rip true melee run for good then
imagine trying to beat moonlord with true melee weapons when there's no flail to use
dry grotto
what weapon
tired haven
but all yoyos that can reach 45 blocks aren't true melee cause they unleash projectiles
Oracle
small talon
Its a dev item, its designed how they want it to be @charred gyro
frail mantle
isn't Shadow no longer on the dev team
charred gyro
idk shouldnt it just be the best armor
frail mantle
or is he just hibernating in the form of another dev and i'm a fool
queen delta
I'm just gonna delete the MDGA message because it isnt necessary
charred gyro
all they need to do is add the double revive
dry grotto
Demonshade is broken as summoner
charred gyro
oh yea
dry grotto
And the active ability is also dope
sleek wadi
Demonshade is supposed to the be the glass cannon armor while Auric Tesla is your survivability booster.
dry grotto
Just equip tesla when u're about to die
charred gyro
thats such a hassle though
i just thought for an endgame armor set you shouldnt have to compromise
lost agate
Auric is busted tbh
dry grotto
auric's prob getting a nerf i think
karmic stone
This sugg falls on a don't so like h
sleek wadi
Auric Tesla gets pushed back to whoever the final boss is IIRC, do not quote me on that.
So when Draedon gets added it'll be pushed back to him
dry grotto
isn't draedon going to be before yharon?
ashen warren
from pins in cal mod talk
wooden wedge
@charred gyro yeah that's the whole point of it
it's supposed to be a glass cannon alternative to the survivability of auric tesla
lost agate
Sandstone we are talking about that smh
wooden wedge
sleek wadi
If any part of Auric Tesla is getting the nerf hammer, it'll probably be Draconic Elixir considering how damn good it makes those revives
lost agate
Sometimes it kinda doubles dmg too so.
frail mantle
iirc Auric shit will be post-Yharhar and Exo shit will be post-Draedon
and Shadowspec shit will be gated behind whatever boss is latest in progression when new bosses decide to exist
ashen warren
imo the recent streams and videos video barely fits, but still, fits just enough
crude geode
Use calming potions and peace candles defrosted?
weak field
Battle potion+Zerg potion+30x spawn rate from cheat sheet+Water candle
The greatest solution to obtaining rare items
queen delta
Uh just wall off your arena from jungle so enemies there dont get to you?
fiery hamlet
(with a chaos candle, during a death mode blood moon)
weak field
Oh yes
queen delta
Honestly, just summon the boss already so you get boss zen, then deal with the rest of the enemies
wooden wedge
I dont get the recent streams part
because the times that ham got his streams there they were calamity
and pixls stream was as well
oh nevermind, I misread what rasp said
crude geode
@north ocean Why is this suggestion better than just fixing the problem using blocks to wall off jungle/using calming pots and peace candles whenever you're getting ready to fight?
tawny gyro
also that sugg is 3 sentences long and contains 4 "damn"s
ashen warren
also i laffed very much at the recent video so basically its fine keep it
north ocean
@crude geode walling off the jungle still doesnt fix the problem during other times when it isnt in the jungle and theres projectiles that go through walls if i box myself in
ashen warren
dodge the projectiles ez
crude geode
Like
north ocean
wall of flesh fire imps
tawny gyro
zen potion + tranquility candle completly stops enemy spawns iirc
north ocean
and also the demons and lava slimes and bats that are out to get me as soon as i open up the box
crude geode
we're not talking about boxing yourself in
north ocean
i wrote it just in case you mention it or someone else does
crude geode
We're talking about walling off the jungle using blocks so tortoises can't land on you, and we're talking about peace/calming buffs to help stop enemy spawns if you're trying to fight a boss.
If you're getting high enough spawns to where demons, bats, and lava slimes are swarming you, that's your own fault, not calamity.
gusty geode
This would be where I make a smart-ass remark about "I was inconvenienced plz fix" suggestions
But I'm trying to work on not doing that
north ocean
kk
fiery hamlet
i never run into that problem bc i just stick the nurse in a nearby house
tawny gyro
alternatively if your arena's far away (like brimstone crags), make a teleporter to there and use the summon immediatly when you teleport
fiery hamlet
combining that with the mod setting that decreases spawn rates when a town npc is nearby would give you p much the same effect right
gray nebula
stray wren
@trim echo Xeroc is a planned boss
These no point for ur suggestion
Sure it might not be billions
unreal viper
That suggestion is a don't, no suggestions that take extreme effort.
trim echo
i want more power
stray wren
But xeroc is practically nigh omnipotent and very hard,also no boss requests iirc
sand umbra
post-SCal content is the last thing Calamity needs right now
hallow hatch
What is that suggestion
Exactly ^^
âI want more powerâ is barely substance for a serious suggestion
stray wren
You will get more power once xeroc and noxus come out,until then you have to be patient
trim echo
Will I be able to go super saiyan
sand umbra
anywho yeah @trim echo your sugg breaks like 5 rules and fails to realize why no new bosses aside from Old Duke have come up in a while
gray nebula
yharim will come way before xeroc
fervent zealot
if you want more power then code it yourself
stray wren
Well,he is gonna be very powerful ain't he? And he is post scal
hallow hatch
Calam doesnât really seem the mid for integer limits anyway
ashen warren
@ashen warren
hallow hatch
Bruh
sand umbra
that works
stray wren
That and he asked for a "nigh omnipotent" boss fight
Which Xeroc is arguably nigh omni
crude geode
Not really a good comparison
hallow hatch
Not to mention the sugg breaks the no suggestion document
trim echo
Bruh, I have Xeroc's armor, he won't stand a chance
stray wren
........oh lord
hallow hatch
Ok
wooden wedge
ok.
crude geode
ok.
north ocean
ok
royal cedar
... I don't think you get how this works
wooden wedge
but that doesn't excuse the fact that your sugg is pretty stank
sand umbra
hallow hatch
Itâs bad
royal cedar
Pre-hardmode, you get Yharim's stimulants. Does that make you as strong as Yharim even though you don't even have to have killed slime king by that point?
sand umbra
I'm just staring at this sugg with an eternal look of "I want to nuke this thing but I have insufficient power to do so"
royal cedar
Same logic
wooden wedge
oh god I thought you said starring
sand umbra
heavens no
hallow hatch
Why we need more power, to nuke that suggestion 
sand umbra
have some faith in me
royal cedar
The fact that 3 people have starred it is concerning
sand umbra
wooden wedge
2*
sand umbra
I mean, one is the default star from SuggBot
royal cedar
Even still
wooden wedge
the bot doesn't count yeah
sand umbra
so it's just 2 peeps starring
stray wren
One of the people who starred has a questionable name
wooden wedge
they do
sand umbra
the fact that neither of the other two were the original poster is what concerns me
subtle oracle
What even? I guess that sugg has been made by a Xtreme gamr... Also we are getting bosses and content already
check #calamity-mod-talk
Pins
hallow hatch
Breaks like 2 suggestion rules too lmao
wooden wedge
this sugg breaks quite a few more iirc
crude geode
This suggestion needs to be thrown into ceaseless void's open maw
zealous ridge
what is this shit
hallow hatch
Itâs extreme gamr shit
sand umbra
fervent zealot
legend has it if you break all of the suggestion rules with one suggestion you free the suggestion god from its slumber
hallow hatch
Working on it
wooden wedge
<><><>
ashen warren
@queen delta since terry is ded
sand umbra
are we about to get SDOMG 2
subtle oracle
Space type story? Do they want space to be expanded?? Its already a pretty small biome
wooden wedge
they want xtreme gamr content
queen delta
That's a suggestion don't
subtle oracle
xtreme gamrs in chat đ
trim echo
do you guys reckon I can get banned for my sugg
wooden wedge
no
stray wren
Doubt
zealous ridge
i mean
crude geode
not really
frail mantle
^
zealous ridge
if you're trying, bans are basically free lmao
queen delta
Alternatively, just ask for a ban and we'll give it to ya
zealous ridge
frail mantle
you don't get banned for a suggestion unless you're being immensely dumb
queen delta
But yeah read the suggestion don'ts doc next time when you suggest something
crude geode
The achilles heel to most *discord users is the fact that they never check the pins
wooden wedge
they don't have to be calamity discord users
it's just that people here happen to never read the fucking pins
ashen warren
can i get one (1) person to ping me
ashen warren
okay i def shouldnt miss future pings thanks
fervent zealot
gameing
crude geode
gamer moment
cold post of a suggestion here
Reduce the Speed of Deathmode Astrum Deusâ main worm, but grant some ability to the other worms (Left up to the Devs).
Reasoning: Currently, Astrum Deus in Deathmode requires some way to increase fall speed in order to avoid getting pelted with lasers while moving down. However, since this is pre-ml and before Normality Relocator, the playerâs best option is to bring a Slimy Saddle to use when falling, which is very unintuitive. Reducing the speed of Astrum Deus would help make this more intuitive and better known to the player.
While Astrum Deusâ main worm is a big challenge and a hurdle, the other worms in Astrum Deusâ fight donât really pose much of a threat outside the occasional, easily dodged charge at you and the mines they spit out. They donât even really feel like a part of the fight, so giving them some type of ability would help alleviate this problem.
Thoughts?
bitter drift
huh
could be useful but i feel like deus is a balanced fight at my opinion
just extra hard
beside most of the time it is the lasers that come from deus's body that hurt you not his body
crude geode
idk really
I'm hit mostly by the lasers he shoots directly at me while trying to ram me, and or the lasers he shot on the descent when trying to fly up to avoid him immediately ramming me
eternal wind
I love that notebook idea
unkempt bolt
i wonder how many times "Add a mod for that only contains calamity's QoL changes" has been suggested
gray nebula
2
sand umbra
really? pretty sure it's been far more than 2
grim tusk
auric ranger weps need a nerf, does anyone agree?
and yes the add a mod for the QoL changes has suggested at least 5 times
unkempt bolt
it definitely feels like more than 2
maybe different wording
idk auric ranger weps feel fine to me
photo is strong but not overpowered
void kelp
i think there's been a handful of those requests but more specific
grim tusk
auric ranger weps need a nerf, does anyone agree?
@grim tusk
Nerf or adjust Auric tier weapons
Ok so theres rnGale which has low damage but can spike up to 350k thanks to the tornados: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/512925739486674954/697522511801352222/Terraria__May_the_blocks_be_with_you_2020-04-08_14-02-18_Trim_Trim_Trim.mp4 here you can see that it has lower than average dps but when the tornados hit...
Then there is Photoviscerator, a flamethrower weapon that can reach up to 310k on Scal, compared to other classes weapons such as Celestus which can reach 200k-250k, Summoner that can reach 250k with Godly Soul artifact, Cosmic immaterializer and mechworm if mechworm feels like it, and Mage that reaches 200k with sub vortex (but feels fair since sub vortex is homing). So slightly reducing its damage could be fine for consistency
And then its the most overbuffed rocket launcher: Magnomaly cannon
This bad boy is more OP than the pre-nerf Gale, all of this is because the rocket's auras stack, making the auras not stack, limiting them or reducing their damage could work. See this to have an idea of how busted it is https://youtu.be/eNqFpi-JTNE
And mage also got a new OP toy: Haedoplagic Echo
Take a look: https://youtu.be/hMAzwGI_9xE (Not my vid, but from someone else of the nohit community) the reason this weapon is so busted are its special characteristic of ignoring I-frames and spawning more projectiles on enemy hits
karmic stone
Gale is still viable?
sand umbra
the concept of so many things reaching 200k+ terrifies me because the nohit DPS guideline for SCal is 170k
grim tusk
the dps guideline does not matter as much, but the going under minimum length will almost guarantee a DQ nohit
void kelp
i assume it's against a dummy?
grim tusk
no its on Scal herself
void kelp
best numbers are testing against scal herself
grim tusk
I sent vids for the weps, except photo
grim tusk
oh you did not see the magnomaly vid
that thing can reach more than twice photo's dps in certain situations
dry grotto
okay, but it's overbuffed
photo never got any buffs or nerfs afaik and it's always been top tier
grim tusk
oh and I did not mention that mage is busted too (Haedoplagic echo)
https://youtu.be/hMAzwGI_9xE, not my vid but from someone else in the nohit community
ancient crow
i seem to remember trying both gale and photo on scal
i had a much easier time with gale
but things might have changed since then
crude geode
Is there more concrete proof for Haedopelagic Echo then that one video?
Sorry for being skeptical, but the 364 hp and the lack of a shown setup makes me question it a bit
As well as the halo around the playerâs head being weird to me
grim tusk
that is new wep, saro's possesion
but the reason hadopelagic is so op is that it ignores i-frames
[[hadopelagic echo]]
queen delta
This was done with nohit gear, so Iâd advise doing it with normal gear first
crude geode
^^^^
The only video that shows the gear setup is Magnomaly Cannon, which shows Eldritch Soul Artifact and Reaper Tooth Necklace
grim tusk
Here, did not kill her but here you can see that I changed gear to a regular one
dry grotto
wtf is that damage
crude geode
You also have four of the drunk princess' drinks on, without any alcohol poisoning
grim tusk
and I forgot healing potions :lul:
dry grotto
that's almost summoner level
foggy plover
try drat out
grim tusk
Fab's vodka doesnt count as drunk princess drink for some reason
crude geode
Unless one of those status effects is alcohol poisoning and the wiki is lying to me
terse sundial
I'm actually not sure how alcohol poisoning works
grim tusk
Fab's vodka doesnt count as drunk princess drink for some reason
@grim tusk
foggy plover
wiki says 3 or more, if it hasnt been lowered they are fine
terse sundial
time to read the source code ig
foggy plover
besides those are mild drunk princess drinks anyways
terse sundial
it should say more than three if that was the case
foggy plover
not like everclear or anything
grim tusk
and I didnt use rampart of deities armor pierce
foggy plover
nvm she does
terse sundial
it's more than three, fixing the wiki now
crude geode
alright ty, was very confused there
terse sundial
also auric tier is intentionally strong, nohit guidelines should probably be updated since all auric tier weapons were recently rebalanced
a year ago those guidelines would fit
not now though
foggy plover
they are a lot stronger now
wooden wedge
@thin talon you need a reason
indigo fog
I mean you're still using RTN + both effigies so I wouldn't say that dps is too suprising
foggy plover
that dps isnt suprising at this point
indigo fog
oracle can get similar results
foggy plover
its the standard now tbh
queen delta
uh we need numbers and reason for that @thin talon
foggy plover
and thats with good aim too
grim tusk
but at least you can see that it has about as twice dps than sub vortex
crude geode
Subsuming Vortex is also meant to deal with crowds of enemies, not really single target bosses
grim tusk
well yea
indigo fog
That's because Subsuming Vortex is homing and Hadopelagic Echo you have to use well
Of course Subsuming Vortex does worse for dps
foggy plover
sub does kinda need a buff
its pretty underwhelming compared to almost every other auric weapon
dry grotto
does anyone even use sub vortex?
indigo fog
Yes, for homing
terse sundial
SSV has homing, therefore less initial damage
thin talon
buff to legendary weapons to scale damage with progress again because they are really fun to use but u dont get to use them for long before they are to weak
dry grotto
u're only ever using exo weapons for scal tho
terse sundial
not allowed to be suggested @thin talon
dry grotto
even with homing, scal's big so hitting her isn't hard
terse sundial
read the pins please
void kelp
that's how legendary weapons used to be and yeah, pins
"Please don't suggest removed content to be reintroduced"
dry grotto
so like, atleast give sub vortex a slight buff
frail mantle
they were changed for a reason
queen delta
I deleted the suggestion. Next time, come back with numbers and proof that legendary weapons need a buff, but they should not be made too powerful for its tier or scales with progression
unkempt bolt
what's the point in removing content though
foggy plover
sub needs a small buff ye and drat needs to be messed with again
unkempt bolt
sorry, not talking about this legendary discussion
was referring to most recent sugg
queen delta
If they don't contribute anything but redundancy or bloat, then they should be removed, yeah
lost agate
the point in removing content is cleaning up unnecesary shit
void kelp
it honestly feels more like a consistency thing too
dry grotto
it's damage just feels low for when u get it
void kelp
since before, the doubles were because rogue didnt have much
fervent zealot
rogue didn't have much but now it's an interesting and defined class
void kelp
but now it ends up being awkward since if you're crafting quickly you end up crafting the wrong variant of a weapon
indigo fog
Briny Baron is really good for singletarget
fervent zealot
let it CONSUME the melee variants so that they can become good
unkempt bolt
i agree that some of the melee versions of rogue weapons are unnecessary, like kelvin catalyst
indigo fog
It's good against cultist and ML
lost agate
you say consistency yet celestus is rogue only
void kelp
KC has an excuse of being a patron item tho
dusty stirrup
The melee/rogue variant thing is just a remnant of back when rogue weps were throwing
lost agate
it just a half done thing that isnt needed
unkempt bolt
but some things like fallen paladin's hammer should remain melee and rogue imo
unkempt bolt
melee already has weapons similar to fallen paladin's that are pure melee iirc
dry grotto
gotta agree tho i feel like there shouldn't be rogue/melee variant weapons
fervent zealot
because stealth strikes are what make these weapons able to stand out, not "haha throwing melee weapon go brrr"
lost agate
then keep it melee and not rogue
if the problem is that a material starts off as melee
unkempt bolt
fair enough
dry grotto
the only thing that needs balancing still is the stealth mechanic if u ask me
queen delta
Yeah, if its predecessor is melee, keep the melee variant only, and if it was rogue, make it rogue only, etc
dry grotto
seems like the best solution
fervent zealot
yeah i kinda worded that part badly
basically just get rid of the redundant variants of these weapons
they're two separate classes, they don't need to mingle like this any more
void kelp
the mingling does also seem to lead people into the assumption that they should be more interchangable too