You can still download from the github tho
#suggestions-discussion
swift bison
ashen warren
digital saddle
ty
hollow oriole
Add a goblin tinkerer Voodoo doll because fuck the goblin tinkerer
digital saddle
i think its a pretty good reason
when he trolls me with prefixes for 5 minutes straight i think its only fair to take vengeance
digital saddle
😔
radiant meadow
@ashen warren you know that Aetheticus is a donor weapon, right?
frail mantle
the dedicatee said he was ok with it i think
ashen warren
@radiant meadow yeah but the donor agreed
radiant meadow
then you should make that more clear
ashen warren
@radiant meadow how
digital saddle
wooden wedge
by saying that they agreed
wooden wedge
why are you pinging ben so much
radiant meadow
I'm just that cool of a guy
wooden wedge
@radiant meadow wow so cool
sounds memey
and there's already items that do that
nasty cholla
crude geode
also a specific item suggestion
tawny gyro
quick question: why were shattered sun and phantasmal ruin replaced in the celestus recipe?
frail mantle
cause they're not boomerangs
radiant meadow
are you really going to have a fit over this again? 
wooden wedge
didn't you just get an answer
tawny gyro
last time the answer i got was "huh, AV's not a boomerang? weird."
bitter drift
@vocal wing also he can hit you from anywhere
radiant meadow
if an alpha virus upgrade gets sprited, then I'll make it a boomerang
but it is not sprited
cinder spade
necromancer is the weakest of the mages because their attacks can't go through walls actually
bitter drift
tell that to polter arenas xD
bitter drift
i swear once in my arena, these pieces of shits can shoot me from the bottom of my arena (and it is REALLY large verticly)
how do these idiots hit me? by making the beam start at around 1 mile away from where they actually are
carmine island
Might be a dumb thing to ask here but was it ever considered splitting the calamity music mod into a few smaller mods to keep it all on the browser?
wooden wedge
the calamity mod was already split
bitter drift
calamity and calamity music mod used to be the same mod
wooden wedge
into music and no music yeah
bitter drift
^
wooden wedge
they won't split it again because that'd make it more confusing
unless there's something that requires them to be split
bitter drift
ya and beside what would they split into?
wooden wedge
music mod 1 and 2
bitter drift
calamity and post moon lord calamity?
rapid pivot
hm; remember that one suggestion that talked about buffing Brimflame Frenzy?
ashen warren
calamity music mod desert scourge and so on
carmine island
Suggestions relating to music became a no no once the music mod became too big for the browser
bitter drift
if anything should be buffed in brimmy is the laser attack
wooden wedge
the brimmy laser attack is fine IMO
rapid pivot
nah, like, the armor set bonus
wooden wedge
since you need to figure out how it works
bitter drift
how can you say this?
rapid pivot
i was thinking; what if, rather than just multiplying projectile damage by 1.1, it instead granted mana sickness immunity? While it was active?
wooden wedge
she uses predictive AI (I think) and it's pretty easy to figure out that you just need to stop moving before she fires
mana sickness immunity would be broken
cinder spade
not for a few seconds
bitter drift
ya but once you do this the attack is free time
wooden wedge
then what would the point of it be?
rapid pivot
it would be normally, but uh
cinder spade
¯_(ツ)_/¯
rapid pivot
brimflame frenzy has some pretty nasty side-effects
aka no natural mana regen, and -21 life per second
and a 30-second cooldown after 10 seconds
actually- no, it's worse, it takes 42 life regen away
sleek wadi
Due to the really small damage multiplier, Brimflame Frenzy does nothing except kill you
rapid pivot
hence the suggestion to buff it
i was thinking that maybe adding mana sickness immunity for the duration might be potent
it is a frenzy, after all, right?
rampant magic spam capability would make sense
cinder spade
multiplying damage by 1.1x in exchange for vastly reduced life and mana regen is just useless
ashen warren
@carmine island calamity music mod is on the browser, the latest ver of it
karmic stone
Hydrothermic* @ashen warren
ashen warren
oops my bad i just changed it
by the way i need to go to bed so i will only be able to reply to questions tomorrow morning
are suggesting rule amendments/changes banned
radiant meadow
it's fine
terse lynx
kamelowy make calamity polish traslacion
frail mantle
Rework the Daedalus Crystal and Hydrothermic Vent to be more interesting
Example: The Daedalus Crystal could fire a non-damaging laser that slowly causes a snowflake to grow on the enemy and deal damage when the laser is held on an enemy. The Hydrothermic Vent could fire a gravity-affected projectile that causes a fountain of boiling water to erupt upon hitting a tile or enemy.
Reason for this suggestion: Currently, the aforementioned armor set minions feel quite bland. They're effectively reskins of the Leaf Crystal from vanilla, with the only real difference outside of the visual aspect being that they inflict some debuffs. Making them actually have unique effects would help make them stand out and would possibly help make them more than just an occasional 100 damage once in a while, and could even possibly make fights more interesting by making the player have to employ new strategies to effectively use their projectiles.
esta bn?
unkempt bolt
i like it
the daedalus crystal idea you suggested could promote summoners staying closer to bosses instead of constantly running the opposite direction
frail mantle
aight
unkempt bolt
i've never been a fan of the crystal above head thing that chlorophyte has, so some variance in other armor sets would be pretty neat
molten dune
yes
neat citrus
https://gyazo.com/a6b138ae42d50b25b437e961fc6b1f1b
Please I need a big water bucket
wooden wedge
that isn't normal
molten dune
oh, you think?
wooden wedge
I mean this was player caused
wooden wedge
where
neat citrus
wooden wedge
nevermind
neat citrus
did you think this was bug report?
wooden wedge
at first glance yes
neat citrus
lol
neat citrus
ik but slowly
wooden wedge
so just let the water flow
neat citrus
that's why that top part of it is filled
but then water all across the world stops flowing normally because of the lag
shell grotto
@neat citrus can I add to yours by saying that it should be an upgrade? then do something similar with crystl crusher by having right click either be a toggle for a change between 1x1 and 5x5 or just left is 5x5 right is 1x1 etc
neat citrus
that would be nice
small talon
wooden wedge
@rose ermine bad reason and meme suggs are a no
small talon
strong jacinth
rose ermine
wooden wedge
@terse sundial iirc
terse sundial
@rose ermine no meme suggestions please
wooden wedge
he doesn't? what was it changed to?
gray nebula
no sicko mode 
swift wadi
unkempt bolt
i dont think it changed
terse sundial
cryo page hasn't been changed in a while
distant gyro
change is approved but never executed
swift wadi
wooden wedge
changelogs don't say anything either
swift wadi
What on earth
wooden wedge
what was your method of killing cryo epsilon
you might not have given him a chance to go into that phase
swift wadi
stabbing him slowly with Ark of the Elements, I made sure to slowly walk through phases
wooden wedge
huh
digital saddle
idk if people think stealth is fine or just dgaf about it, every time ive suggested improving it i get lukewarm reactions
pine cove
im here
indigo fog
You don't need to put your entire reason in bold
unkempt bolt
devs have put a lot of work into each stage of the game
i dont think they'd like to implement a way to just skip it
pine cove
Then I have a question
Why did they make an item that can be used to fight up to the Lunatic Cultist?
molten dune
uhh
unkempt bolt
to decrease linearity of progression
unkempt bolt
nah it is dw
pine cove
it's not
molten dune
eidolon tablet is still i think post plantera
unkempt bolt
no
molten dune
when is it
unkempt bolt
it's from the start of hardmode
unkempt bolt
it's meant to be a challenge that you're rewarded for
adds multiple options to the game
instead of it just always being mech->plantera->golem->cultist
hallow kraken
Speedrunning is a self-created challenge that developers shouldn’t cater towards
gusty geode
Tbf so is no-hitting
sleek wadi
Yeah any minimum progression changes should be more geared towards stomping out thinks like needing to kill the mechs in order to fight Yharon 2
pine cove
So Twins, Skeletron Prime , Destroyer, Golem, and Plantera + modded bosses, and if talking completionists its Cryogen, Brimestone, A.Scourge, Calamitas, Siren, Austrum Auereus, Plaguebringer, Ravanger, and Astrum Deus. So thats like 14 or 15 bosses. Pre-HM has like 10 ( slime king, Desert Scourge, Crabulon, Hive Mind/Perforators, Slime god + Eye of Cthulu, Brain of cthulu/Eater of worlds, Queen Bee, Skeletron, and Wall Of Flesh )
I agree like if their was a way to implement it
molten dune
What
pine cove
As ik speed runners main target are SCal. It should be a challenge but think of it - Daedelus storm bow VS Profaned Gurdians is a challenge
radiant meadow
we wanted to keep the three main modes of the game separate still
prehardmode, hardmode, and post moon lord
molten dune
You need to kill skelters and wof to even get the eidolon tablet
hallow kraken
That’s because weapons at a tier aren’t good at beating bosses that are at a significantly higher tier
dry grotto
i also feel like making the game fully "non-linear" also kinda ruins part of the game
so, making wof, cultis and moonlord atleast necessary
keeps the game somewhat interesting
since u know what you're working towards
pine cove
Exactly and Lunatic Cultist is 1 gateway towards Moon Lord
Beating Moon Lord activates post moon lord activates post moon lord
molten dune
what
dry grotto
but at the same time u're not forced to take any specific route to said bosses
pine cove
like if we are saying this then why did we make an item that we can use to literally skip like 20 or so bosses
molten dune
the devs said themselves, they aren't allowing any path to skip wof or moon lord
pine cove
Its like asking for 5 dollars but saying they have to pay it back but they cant user paper money
unkempt bolt
????????
unkempt bolt
i doubt this is going anywhere, im just gonna step out lol
molten dune
okay
molten dune
so 8 modded bosses, and 6 vanilla
That's 14 bosses
You want an item to skip
Every single boss
molten dune
before and including moon lord
sage copper
thats broken
molten dune
I made a minimum boss chart, i think i still have it
it's in no way possible
like, i mean
wooden wedge
like you can fight WoF then LC as soon as you get to HM
that's all of hardmode in like 3 bosses
molten dune
murder adult eidolon wyrm
wooden wedge
including ML
wooden wedge
that just killed my discord
versed mica
same
sage copper
akiodjawiudas
versed mica
there isn't anything
pine cove
This mod is against speed runs yes yes
The WOF is required but speedrunners wish to target Scal I also saw some mentions of this person who made a Eidolon Tablet fix suggestion and they were told it was for speed running
But now calamity mod is a mod with no speedrunning
So the 5 dolalrs is adding a speed run item but the paying back for it is somebody pointing it out that speedrunning isnt a thing is they cant pay it back with paper money
So I admit that was a bad example, the point I am getting is you are literally skipping about 20+ BOSSES with 1 item and your cool as its speed running but their is this panic over an item that helps speed running although their is one. So its like your trying to pay back but you cant pay back
wooden wedge
we need to be in the same server
versed mica
you didn't link an image
wooden wedge
send a normal screenshot
molten dune
there
ashen warren
bruh
dry grotto
if u wanna speedrun to scal u need to beat skeletron, just saying
and every post-ml boss
ohh and rav
molten dune
It's a shortcut that's difficult to take
pine cove
this is including all vanilla HM bosses 😐
ashen warren
imo, calamity is actually really good at catering to speedrunners
versed mica
your chart didn't load
versed mica
so no
molten dune
you still need to kill the mechs for mothron
dry grotto
no
pine cove
Like I saw some comments saying that
dry grotto
afaik mothron can just spawn post-ml
versed mica
oops loads now
ashen warren
yeah
pine cove
Calamity mod isnt really a speed running mod
pine cove
Like why implement a item that is speedrunning
radiant meadow
but we don't actively try to inhibit it
wooden wedge
it's not, but it supports it
radiant meadow
people do speedrun Calamity
dry grotto
no mod is technically a speedrunning mod but calamity just gives speedrunners some extra way to play
versed mica
Theres a nice video of it
dry grotto
like, keeps the speedrunning section of calamity interesting atleast
u have min % and full completion if i'm correct
versed mica
I watched that speedrun video way too much
versed mica
no
pine cove
When they speed run, they know what to expect. Once they fight all bosses and do all classses, it becomes pretty stale
versed mica
spawns in solar eclipse
dry grotto
and then some min without skipping mech/plant/golem
molten dune
Do they spawn without killing mechs?
ashen warren
i really dont think that any more needs to be put towards making it more speed runnable, because in calam speedruns you really just fight the only bosses you need to, and it really aint that much
radiant meadow
is that not the same for most playthroughs?
dry grotto
well that could be the same for every other game in existance tho?
people have been speedrunning the same Goldeneye level for more than 15 years
molten dune
I have an idea for a suggestion for vanilla terraria
dear devs, add items that skip to moon lord pls
that'd be epic
versed mica
yeah speedrunning is legit just practicing the techniques until you have it down
dry grotto
u telling me a mod that exists for less than 3 years is already stale in terms of speedrunning? 🤔
dry grotto
calamity mod isn't nearly as optimised, and until it is, it'll keep staying interesting
pine cove
If their was a way to like get to SCal with a challenge and maybe go backwards then forwards might add a bit of spices. That is, but their are tons of play styles. So like why not start with a ranger in a modded world but they played to much moddedrangers t hey know what to expect. So maybe a twist can be to change where they begin
dry grotto
ohh i agree with zard
dry grotto
didn't even know it was a 25% dmg decrease
molten dune
is that what you want?
dry grotto
but definitely didn't know u got increased damage when holding a summon weap
ashen warren
prolly could just slap information about it on summon level meter or stat meter
pine cove
Any progress really as long as I have to earn it
ashen warren
well
dry grotto
make it show in rev
radiant meadow
Calamity is already very flexible with progression bar wall of flesh, cultist, and moon lord tbh
ashen warren
the information is there just not, explicit
dry grotto
cause afaik it's a rev only thing
pine cove
FINE I QUIT
ashen warren
damn
ashen warren
byeah calam is more flexible than vanilla too so like, wuh
unkempt bolt
a bit dramatic
versed mica
so moving on what do you think about displaying the summon changes
radiant meadow
as for the summoner suggestion, how should that be done?
versed mica
Stat meter?
dry grotto
vanilla is super flexible pre-hm
versed mica
or just a tooltip
dry grotto
then u reach hm and it's like "what flexibility?"
radiant meadow
because I'd rather it not be too blatant
versed mica
understandable
molten dune
Vanilla requires 1 boss to kill to get past prehm
dry grotto
Ben, would it be possible to just add that to the guide?
versed mica
I think we moved on since they left]
dry grotto
like, he actually says something about it
radiant meadow
possibly??
molten dune
And then 6 to get past ml
radiant meadow
not sure if you can add quotes to the help part of the guide
you can add normal quotes easily though
dry grotto
well, if it's possible i think that'd be a good way of putting it in
versed mica
inb4 guide help is hardcoded
dry grotto
not too blatant but also atleast somewhat helpful
radiant meadow
so basically guide tries to be useful for once in his life
dry grotto
also, if it's possible does that mean u can add in other "help" quotes for calamity mod?
yes
radiant meadow
if it's possible then yes
dry grotto
like, it would be nice of the guide said something about how to fight certain bosses
radiant meadow
but Amidias already covers a lot
dry grotto
the bosses amidias doesn't cover maybe
radiant meadow
Amidias is basically our stand in guide now that I think about it
radiant meadow
as he should be
dry grotto
that's why i feel like he needs to be added to :/
if only he didn't waste a house slot
sand umbra
mfw Amidias is Guide but superior
molten dune
He is required to be sacrificed to w0f
sleek wadi
Him dying is more useful than like, 75% of NPCs what is this
deep yarrow
@shrewd cosmos could you please explain your reasoning? Wouldn’t +1/2 health a second be negligible on most Revengence bosses?
woven otter
@radiant meadow Hey for the new update video on YouTube, would you happen to know the song that was used? I can't quite remember where it's from
deep yarrow
Also wouldn’t it clash with phase shifts (which activate when boss hits X% afaik)
wooden wedge
@woven otter this is the wrong chat for that
radiant meadow
I haven't watched it yet but I can probably find out
sleek wadi
Also why do Campfires and Heart Lanterns need a drawback? You already need to design your arena round them and you need a lot for an arena
unreal viper
I feel like arena buffs are fine. You get a reward for extra preparation.
dry grotto
Also, life regen for bosses is ass
unreal viper
Yeah.
pulsar jay
a little late, but with all methods of cheese pretty much patched out is speedrunning even alive?
wooden wedge
the cheese might be patched but the summons aren't
radiant meadow
Speedrunning is still a thing
dry grotto
Speedrunners will just use old builds
hallow kraken
that is a don’t
wooden wedge
@south idol that's a don't iirc
hallow kraken
Yeah it’s a new mode which is a large scale change
indigo fog
You shouldn't suggest for things that would take up an immense amount of time to fully implement
indigo fog
Yeah new difficulty mode suggestions are definitely in the don'ts
wooden wedge
should we just ping a mod to kill the sugg since they didn't respond here
dry grotto
Ben
radiant meadow
I'm not a mod
wooden wedge
this is true
dry grotto
Sad
wooden wedge
but @vocal grotto is
dry grotto
Dom ping
wooden wedge
dom ping.
radiant meadow
Also pretty sure people would complain about no sulph sea
vocal grotto
The new mode thing, right?
pulsar jay
dominatrix
wooden wedge
yep
radiant meadow
But I have an idea to prevent meteor from eating sulph sea
indigo fog
Can the meteor even spawn in the sulphurous sea? I've never seen that before
dry grotto
Afaik no
dry grotto
Imagine the astral meteor being mid-air
wooden wedge
meteors avoid the ocean biomes
calm temple
They really don't. Many times in casual playthroughs I've been unable to find a meteorite, only to find it much later in the ocean.
wooden wedge
also the reasoning is a but meh
because astral solution
they avoid the actual ocean, but can spawn next to them
calm temple
It would simply act as a conductor of sorts to carry the infection over before killing a mech boss
wooden wedge
hold on imma find a video on this
dry grotto
They spawn in the air and fall down onto the beach if i'm correct
radiant meadow
Meteor is figurative
They don't spawn in the air
small talon
look in suggestions again
wooden wedge
which includes astral since they share the same code
karmic stone
@vocal grotto meme sugg
zenith hazel
already taken care of
foggy plover
the guy advertised in general like 1 minute ago
zenith hazel
moving on
pulsar jay
why is the astral biome so low to the ground
wooden wedge
if they advertised and got told off by ein wouldn't that be a warn
wooden wedge
hadari what do you mean
pulsar jay
is that something i need to suggest they increase or is that a world issue
wooden wedge
the astral goes deep enough to reach the underground layer
pulsar jay
you only have to fly up a very small bit of tiles for the astral biome to consider you not in it
wooden wedge
oh that
radiant meadow
Astral biome detects nearby blocks
wooden wedge
isn't it like 200 tiles to be considered a biome
radiant meadow
Like most biomes
wooden wedge
it's the same as like the hallow or desert
radiant meadow
Not really something that can be fixed
wooden wedge
it's not a bug or anything
pulsar jay
I'm talking about height you're considered not in the astral with just 15 tiles of height
radiant meadow
But I can try to get astral meteors to avoid the sulph sea
wooden wedge
and it's not like being out of the astral is a bad thing
bosses don't enrage out of it
radiant meadow
no bosses enrage outside of astral specifically
aureus and deus must be summoned in astral but limiting you to the biome would be dumb and restricting
sand umbra
it'd make Deus like borderline impossible
radiant meadow
didn't I buff wulfrum staff?
which is also faster casting and autofire compared to amethyst
squirrel squires have garbage dps and having more of them doesn't stack dps as well compared to wulfrum drones
although making wulfrum drones smarter is a possibility
small talon
shouldn't collab suggests be nopes by now?
toxic kettle
radiant meadow
@flint quest definitely falls under too big in scope
so ye, you're not really allowed to suggest that
and there are plenty of reasons why the mods don't need to merge
flint quest
I mean... It could happen tho right?
zealous ridge
eh
flint quest
Especially with the popularity they have
zealous ridge
probably not?
sure theyre popular
but that doesnt mean they should be automatically merged
mental violet
Well the pickaxe and axe need a buff for sure.
flint quest
It honestly seems like they all fit in eachother
mental violet
They are on par with the starter tools.
flint quest
Wait
radiant meadow
no please no
zealous ridge
like, if you want all their content. just play all the mods together
flint quest
That came out wrong
mental violet
The starter tools.
radiant meadow
all 3 mods are drastically different in their own ways
mystic sandal
isnt it technically a dont to suggest thorium crossover content
zealous ridge
thorium is balanced with a completely different design philosophy
mystic sandal
yeah
radiant meadow
thorium crossover content isn't allowed to be suggested either
mental violet
Honestly if I had any say.
mystic sandal
thorium adds on to terraria, calamity is its own thing
strong jacinth
zealous ridge
elements awoken is like... bootleg calamity at this point, but thorium is... no. it would be such a bloated experience
mental violet
I'd say make the wulfrum pick and axe be at the same tier as gold, but that might be a bit much.
radiant meadow
definitely too much
sudden elk
probably make wulfrum enemies rarer if gold tier
zealous ridge
because wulfrum is literally tungsten
although a scrapped, unrefined version of it, likely
but anyways
mystic sandal
would it be a good idea to suggest a buff to the wulfrum fishing rod?
zealous ridge
eh. that's been suggested before i believe
sudden elk
so theres wulfrum shards, why not add wulfrum bars? maybe say, add some more wulfrum things?
zealous ridge
idk if it was sent
mystic sandal
because you can just get the reinforced fishing pole within half the time of a wulfrum fishing rod, and it has more fishing power
zealous ridge
devs have said wulfrum is staying a "trash material"
sudden elk
ah
zealous ridge
they want its only use to be the early stuff
ancient crow
maybe just make wulf gear easier to get by increasing drone/slime spawnrates pre boss?
sudden elk
they are already pretty easy to find
ancient crow
or increasing how much gets dropped
mystic sandal
yeah the wulfrum shit is just for pre-boss
mystic sandal
also there was a suggestion to change wulfrum fishing pole to have no snapping
zealous ridge
like, it could still work with 5% fishing power
but have it portray a unique effect, yeah
like, for example
line doesnt break is one way to do it
maybe, faster catch speed
to make earlygame fishing less slow
stuff like that
radiant meadow
idk how to modify catch speed
hot zephyr
Oof that's a pretty cringe suggestion
zealous ridge
heck, it could be made into a "tutorial pole" that lets players catch fish within a larger time frame so its easier to catch stuff
idk how easy those variables are to change
but eh. ideas nonetheless
hot zephyr
"Just combine all three mods lol"
zealous ridge
ehh
sudden elk
how about make it able to fish on seperate bait
that can catch 'unique' earlygame trash items
ancient crow
or maybe have it not need bait at all
smoky wagon
i dont think combining 3 of the largest terraria mods is as easy or would work as well as you think it would
the mods have vastly different design philosiphies
ancient crow
doesnt need bait because ooo green metal shiny
ancient crow
radiant meadow
I could make it so any attempts to catch trash with a wulfrum rod fish up a bass
radiant meadow
maybe
unkempt bolt
are suggestions related to other mods even allowed lol
sudden elk
yeah, make it have a chance because bass sells for 5 silver
and thats a bit early game
radiant meadow
not really allowed, no
sand umbra
crossmod content isn't really allowed for suggs
and likely won't be until Calamity itself is in a more complete state
radiant meadow
I also don't think they have plans to change their suggestion
unkempt bolt
though i dont think i see it in the don't's list
sand umbra
but hey, that's why I exist
to do crossmod shit myself so they don't have to 
maybe
but like realtalk
there's no way 3 of the biggest mods in the scene are gonna do a fusion dance
sudden elk
in the grand scheme of things, i see elements awoken as quite small
sure, it adds content across the game but just
no
sand umbra
wait
ancient crow
also thorium and calam have hugely different artstyles
sand umbra
I thought they said Cal, Thor, and SoA
I'm blind
anywho disregarding that, uh
Calamity and Thorium
they have wildly differing design philosophies
ancient crow
that too
sand umbra
both of them make you nigh-unkillable at endgame yes
but their ways of doing so are polar opposites
hot zephyr
Cross modding is a meme and nobody should waste their time on it :p
ancient crow
thorium's just like: we only added 4 bosses but heres so many weapons you'll never need to use
sand umbra
Calamity makes you nigh-unkillable by ensuring the enemy doesn't have enough time to kill you before you kill it
hot zephyr
Thorium just literally makes you unkillable
sand umbra
Thorium makes it so that you say no when you die
even though your DPS is absolute shit by comparison
ancient crow
yeah but calam tiers are consistent across all classes
radiant meadow
Reality Breakers be like
sand umbra
Tide Turner armor
ancient crow
basically all of thorium has entirely different tier systems with different materials for each class
sand umbra
you literally press a button to dien't
hot zephyr
It's why I prefer Thorium's design philosophy because you can actually stick with a weapon you want for a decent amount of time, where in Clam near post ML you basically have to shelf all last-tier items 
sand umbra
if you're smart with Calamity progression, you can (believe it or not) stick to a weapon for multiple tiers
hot zephyr
You'll be at a huge disadvantage
radiant meadow
Thorium only has like 1 or 2 tiers post moon lord
radiant meadow
so it's not really a fair comparison
ancient crow
yeah but calam has like 8 post ml bosses
sand umbra
to the point of having literally half a dozen rarity tiers exclusive to post-ML
hot zephyr
Thorium in my eyes is an extension of Vanilla while Calamity is it's own beast
ancient crow
^
hot zephyr
It's why cross modding doesn't work.
radiant meadow
it won't work no
it would be an absolute disaster
that's not to say we can't have cross mod content
sand umbra
it's a total shitfest to balance
hot zephyr
If EO, Calamity and Thorium were meant to be together they'd be either rewritten from square one or lobotomized
radiant meadow
but merging the mods is hell no
radiant meadow
it already was annoying trying to get the thorium rev buff config in a decent state
ragnarok literally tanked half of the post moon lord weapons except like ele axe and last prism
hot zephyr
Me, a ranger, at my Clam+thor playthrough post ragnarok
Calamity items: I am inevitable
sand umbra
Calamity in general with other mods be like I am...inevitable.
hot zephyr
Even in a playable state, they'd need the same amount of content length to actually be viable
Calamity's tiers aren't even in a state of balance yet, much less the other mods
radiant meadow
it isn't terrible at least
ancient crow
where does boss checklist put ragnarok if you have both thorium and calamity
mystic sandal
i think pre-providence
sudden elk
post bumblebirb i think
radiant meadow
I think right before prov
sand umbra
also idle assertion: some Thorium weapons are anomalously powerful and have not been nerfed for reasons nobody can comprehend
subtle oracle
We dob't talk about those...
radiant meadow
pre nerf sound sage lament
sand umbra
oh my example wasn't gonna be a post-Rag wep
my example was Ancient Flame which gets like 10k+ DPS up close
hot zephyr
Y'know the alphabet, where it goes straightforward up to LMNOP?
It's hardmode in a nutshell post Golem :p Cryogen, AS, Brimmy, Clam, Plant Golem, Leviaureusgoliathravagercultistdeus
ancient crow
my main issue with thorium is that it has wayy too much item bloat
theres like three tiers of stuff between each boss
hot zephyr
Because it's replicating vanillas wonky ass tier system
radiant meadow
levi and aureus are intended to be fought pre golem
but golem is a terrible tier gate because of the boss' nature
ancient crow
thorium was just like what if we did hellstone again but in hardmode
hot zephyr
I always do golem right after Plant and then sweep everything
ancient crow
and now theres magma
radiant meadow
anyways, Thorium's problems aren't really a thing for here btw
hot zephyr
There's a key problem in the mod that you can jump over everything post golem :p
hot zephyr
It's not a healthy form of it
hot zephyr
If LC was more of a threat
digital saddle
its convenient to skip levi, duke, ravager, and pbg a lot of the time
hot zephyr
Lunar gear is basically handed to the player
radiant meadow
okay well, I'm not diving into cultist's issues
because that is not something I am willing to change
sand umbra
radiant meadow
not because I don't agree but largely more of, coding npcs makes me die
digital saddle
i do think hardmode progression could be improved
hot zephyr
Here's my argument summed up: Healthy linearity is a bunch of different but equal choices. IE, the six hardmode bosses is healthy linearity
In Cultist's case, why wouldn't you just grab a Phantasm they're handing em out like it's Free Balloon day
hot zephyr
Exactly
radiant meadow
but not everyone jumps immediately straight to cultist
hot zephyr
Touch cultists and poof a huge portion of the mod just becomes... irrelevant?
radiant meadow
you shouldn't make blanket assumptions like that
hot zephyr
I guess
ancient crow
how many crafting materials (ie stuff used to make a cohesive set of gear) would you say calamity adds
radiant meadow
[[Crafting Materials]]
red storm
radiant meadow
This is a page, right?
hot zephyr
Nope
digital saddle
i think deus is in a very bad spot as far as progression goes
having a boss between cultist and moon lord is extremely awkward
radiant meadow
it was worse before
ancient crow
where was deus before
sand umbra
callbacks to when Deus was literally right after Aureus
ancient crow
bruh
hot zephyr
Call me a Thorium armor bloat fanatic but I like Plague Reaper because it's a sidegrade
I think Deus' spot is super weird
digital saddle
i think moving him to post moon lord could be good
sand umbra
personally I really like all the class-specific armors that have been added to Cal lately
digital saddle
pre providence maybe
hot zephyr
I think that every pre-cultist, post-golem bosses should have sidegrade tier armor to encourage people to fight em
hot zephyr
It'd be cool
zenith hazel
they already drop good weps though
radiant meadow
make duke unlock a new tier of the sunken sea
zenith hazel
that's already a good incentive to fight them
sand umbra
I would actually be okay with that
hot zephyr
Kill two birds with one stone, give the sunken sea a reason to visit in late hardmode and give Duke a reason to be fought
radiant meadow
time to scream at spriters then 😳
sand umbra
ye
digital saddle
you know what tier is way too crowded with weapons
pre dog
you have polter drops, abyss stuff, boomer drops, acid rain tier 3 drops
ancient crow
ok remind me again why frigid bars exist
hot zephyr
"The marine life has fled to the sunken sea!"
ancient crow
ive always though they should be merged with cryonic
zealous ridge
have pigrons spawn in the sunken sea with a unique, dark green coloring??????
radiant meadow
acid rain tier 3 doesn't have any drops yet @digital saddle
hot zephyr
And they removed that gimmick, making it irrelevant
digital saddle
ah
hot zephyr
Acid Rain is f u n k y
digital saddle
well, its a new event
hot zephyr
Cool idea but irradiated slimes makes me wanna die
digital saddle
im sure it will be fleshed out more with time
radiant meadow
irradiated slimes are changed next patch
hot zephyr
Enemies going through walls in events is a big
Especially when I built my home in the sulph sea
digital saddle
also, it seems strange to me how most classes dont really upgrade their accessories much from moon lord till dog
then immediately upon unlocking draedons forge you get all the insane endgame accessories
hot zephyr
All class acc gang
hot zephyr
But it's cool stuff
zealous ridge
also the fact that theres the elemental accessories in the dog tier is mega ech
to me at least
hot zephyr
It's weird to say the least
digital saddle
you know what disappoints me
Polter doesnt have his own armor set really, despite how AMAZING his weapons look
radiant meadow
wdym?
zenith hazel
do we really need a third armor set at that tier?
ancient crow
polter's armor set is the bloodstone one
zealous ridge
I would love to see a new armor at any post-ml tier
but you know we cant have everything we want
hot zephyr
Armor is fun when done right
zealous ridge
and also, it would likely be unrealistic
zenith hazel
if anything, fitting another set pre-polter would be better to avoid overload
zealous ridge
more class-specific armors please
civic pond
i mean godslayer correlates to devourer somewhat, but bloodflare doesn't do the same for polt, albeit thats not very important.
ancient crow
s e n t i n e l a r m o r ?
hot zephyr
signus rogue armor
zenith hazel
yeah sentinels armor made from all 3 parts could sound feasible
ancient crow
hot zephyr
I like it
sand umbra
oh boy, all-3-part Sentinel armor
zenith hazel
hmm, 3 sets for multiple classes then
sand umbra
time for another classless armor because that's just what we need between Provi and the guy who unlocks the king glass cannon armor
hot zephyr
Only three classes get the armor :p, Fuck ranger and mage players they don't deserve armor
ancient crow
if you're using all three parts, why not have the armor be made out of Cosmic Worms
digital saddle
i just think a polter themed armor set, like black with blue flame accents could be seriously fucking cool looking
zenith hazel
SW for ranger, CV for mage and melee (?), signus for rogue & summoner
radiant meadow
Brav was basing it off weapon drops
zenith hazel
just trying to correlate to drops yea
zealous ridge
fair enough
sand umbra
correlating to drops is best
radiant meadow
since weaver is ranger central
zenith hazel
mirror blade is practically melee + mage anyway
sand umbra
hot zephyr
It's not like you won't be fighting all three bosses anyways
sand umbra
it's still a good meme to think back on
zenith hazel
yeah but it's the closest thing to mage
ancient crow
...
hot zephyr
Mana swords sounds fun
ancient crow
yes you do lol
hot zephyr
Cosmic worm is literally made of all three sentinel parts
radiant meadow
exactly
zealous ridge
i literally have a doc filled with ideas for this
ancient crow
???
zealous ridge
am i allowed to post, but not suggest?
radiant meadow
It's not like you won't be fighting all three bosses anyways
what does this mean then?
fuck
it says won't
ancient crow
lol
sand umbra
radiant meadow
ancient crow
digital saddle
i wish silva had an alternate choice
hot zephyr
You need a nap
radiant meadow
zenith hazel
I mean go ahead and suggest 3 sets that center around sentinels, but I won't guarantee the devs will be on board with it
sand umbra
so anyway as I was saying about Ceaseless granting a mage or mage-summoner hybrid armor
zealous ridge
when ur question gets flooded by ben being dumb
sand umbra
I have so many ideas for this but they're super specific and would never happen 1:1 nor do I have the patience to figure out a vague enough way to suggest them
hot zephyr
Your dev rank, hand it over.
digital saddle
i mean we have fearmonger, i feel like investing in more summoner hybrid armor around that tier would be overkill
hot zephyr
Just redact your message like an SCP article, Thomas
ancient crow
ok, so basically, ||████||
hot zephyr
I don't understand the point of only having a handful of combo armors for only a single combination of classes. Where's my ranger mage armor or my summoner rogue armor?
Where's my melee summoner armor >:(
sand umbra
okay don't yell at me I'm sorry in advance for not 100% using all the classes but like here are my takes on this
SW = Ranger
CV = Mage, Mage/Summoner, or Summoner, all can be thematically fitting
Sig = Rogue or Melee/Rogue, Rogue should definitely be a focus
sand umbra
sure
zealous ridge
haha yes
i took a different approach
thinking how the materials could be themed around a pre-existing armor
sand umbra
just know that by releasing this idea to me I take no responsibility for any bootlegs that occur by my hands
sand umbra
hmm
okay so what you're saying is, in terms of upgrades
SW = Beetle
CV = Spectre
Sig = Umbraphile
zealous ridge
yeah
it doesnt cover all bases
but it gives some specific classes some noice armors
sand umbra
honestly my idea doesn't either
~~the ideas I stated are based on my own plans for EE
I keep debating over whether I want Void Enchanter/Enchantress armor or a summoner armor with funny Dark Energy moments~~
hot zephyr
I'd say my biggest complaint towards post-ml (which is getting better) is the reuse of content and the fact that most armors are ore based
hot zephyr
How do I explain it in a way that makes sense...?
zealous ridge
tenebris
hot zephyr
Most post-ML armors are acquired in the exact same way
digital saddle
post ml is kind of a boss rush yeah
sand umbra
and here we come to the general issue that came all the way back when all these one-size-fits-all armors were introduced
there's very little variety in what you do after the Moon Lord is defeated
hot zephyr
Look at how Spectre, Beetle, Spooky and Shroomite are obtained and then compare it to 90% of post-ml armors
sand umbra
that's something vanilla does right, if you ask me
hot zephyr
They're all from the same tier but each class goes about it a different way
sand umbra
every class has a unique new unlock or event where they get the most bang for their buck
hot zephyr
Especially comparing Mage to Ranger, endgame those classes are almost identical
sand umbra
something else that's neat is that vanilla gives a large amount of options to use
unless you're summoner
but not large enough to where it feels overwhelming
hot zephyr
Calamity does Summoner and Rogue very well
sand umbra
Rogue in particular has gotten a lot of specific armor love these past few updates
and I very much appreciate that fact
hot zephyr
I feel like the weapon variety isn't really an issue, it's mostly caused by people playing the meta
If there wasn't class setups or the help page, it'd look a lot different
Another problem with post-ml is that while most of the exo accs are cool, a lot of variety is lost when everything just gets mashed together
sand umbra
yes
sand umbra
there's a sore lack of accessory variety in late-game because everything gets thrown together
hot zephyr
There's not much thought to choosing your accessories when everything is just mashed together into one blob accessory
sand umbra
exo-weapons share this problem but spike it up to 11 because they're effectively your only options
hot zephyr
SCAL tier is kinda yikes because each class has a like... two weapons
zealous ridge
the unobtainable weapons able to be cheated in via cheat sheet sound like a step in the right direction, somewhat
their mechanics are burh
but i like the idea of more weapons in that tier that aren't just an exo something
hot zephyr
What're the unobtainable weapons?
zealous ridge
stuff like plasma casters, draedons laser rifle
zealous ridge
gatling lasor cannons
hot zephyr
Isn't Draedon pre yharon?
zealous ridge
theyre technicially viewable via cheatsheet, which anyone can get, so i dont consider it spoilers
i believe its post yharon, pre yharim
sand umbra
Draedon's slated between Yharon and SCal
hot zephyr
Ah, that's neat
Acid Rain, the Rogue update, etc have been amazing.
In a few months from now our arguments are gonna be irrelevant because the devs have rolled over everything :p
zealous ridge
i definitely think that your observations are valid, though
accessories have no variety lategame
armors are just obtained the same ways
and are just mostly the same armor with different headpieces
pulsar jay
yeah
sand umbra
mhm
pulsar jay
nobody has their own sets anymore
pulsar jay
summoner kinda does because fearmongerr
zealous ridge
but its not my favorite
pulsar jay
but like
hot zephyr
usually the secondary options aren't very good
zealous ridge
omega blue is also nice, probably better than fearmonger
but it's lackluster in survivability, making it harder to use for the layperson
not to say its impossible, but its... difficult to justify it when you get so much more bang for your buck with the meta armors
sand umbra
I honestly prefer the more recent class-specific armors
primarily those granted to Rogue
zealous ridge
i agree
sand umbra
Umbraphile, Snow Ruffian, Sulfurous...
zealous ridge
rogue has gotten some nice attention
sand umbra
Rogue has really gotten the attention it's desperately needed in that department
hot zephyr
Understandable, it's only a matter of time before Throwing commits non existant
zealous ridge
and stuff like fathom swarmer and brimflame are nice additions too
hot zephyr
Stealth is still rough but everything else
zealous ridge
although i believe theyre poorly implemented
hot zephyr
Fathom Swarmer is busted
zealous ridge
ye
hot zephyr
Brimflame is cool
zealous ridge
brimflame is actually kind of weak setbonus-wise
hot zephyr
Fathom either needs to be post-one mech, post-three-mechs or post-plant
zealous ridge
its changed to be post-clone next update
hot zephyr
Understandable
zealous ridge
as it was intended to be in that tier
its broken because it literally is out of the tier it was supposed to be
also i think its dumb that we get another armor with random liquid traversal attributes
hot zephyr
Acid Rain 2: Summoner Fucking Dies
zealous ridge
like.. there are so many
hot zephyr
People actually use the liquid gimmicks? Nice
zealous ridge
no i just think its dumb
because i see it as just bloat
like, there are accessories for it already anyways
hot zephyr
Don't have any new ideas for this set? Just add another liquid traversal ability
covert siren
Acid rain was rushed to get old duke out. Change my mind.
hot zephyr
The balance is wonky with Acid Rain but it's a good event
zealous ridge
but old duke isn't even that... amazing either
its kind of wonky right now
and acid rain itself was poorly tested, in my eyes
hot zephyr
I just want the community to encourage the devs to keep focus on improving current content instead of incessantly begging for new bosses
zealous ridge
ive only experienced the first ant 3rd tier and both of them were super annoying
hot zephyr
Tier 2 is actually terrible
zealous ridge
like literally remove water leeches and i would be okay with it
hot zephyr
Irradiated slimes nuke ya
hot zephyr
Caustic Tears should be craftable before the event, not after.
zealous ridge
gamma slimes just make the screen a minefield
old duke isn't even balanced for post-polter the way i see it
its too difficult imo
hot zephyr
Phil Swift level contact damage
radiant meadow
irradiated slimes are changing, I think I said that
zealous ridge
yeah
radiant meadow
caustic tears are being obtained differently
zealous ridge
i will say, i don't want to neglect the changes that are coming next patch
the devs are listening
hot zephyr
Epic, I like that a lot
Thanks, Ben
(And the rest of the Calamity team ya'll are epic)
radiant meadow
no, we're changing the event for the better
every enemy gets sulphurous skater AI
zealous ridge
ancient crow
sand umbra
zealous ridge
P L E A S E