why cant wulfrum slimes come from king slime
#suggestions-discussion
swift wadi
radiant meadow
The miniboss would probably only spawn in the outer thirds
tired haven
cuz they aren't real slimes
mental violet
I like the idea of a flying drone.
subtle oracle
I think there was a request to have a destroyed wulfrum drone background debris or something before, idk what happened to that tho
hollow shell
That never got posted for whatever reason
earnest raptor
@strong jacinth Astrum Deus is intended to be fightable while Lunar Event is happening.
strong jacinth
that's the issue
hollow shell
Dracos doesn't want the Lunar Events to have anything interrupting it
radiant meadow
Astral injection procced by mana flower sounds like a balance disaster
On another note
Hotkeys are hardcoded I think
earnest raptor
Astrym Deus is really tough even for that point of progression except you are possessing the power of cheesenades
Hotkeys are hardcoded I think
There should bemanaPotionfield, like with health potions.
@radiant meadow
radiant meadow
That won't make it any less broken though
Also
Not really feeling another complete rebalance of deus
earnest raptor
Lower his speed, lel
radiant meadow
Weapons need balancing too
earnest raptor
He feels like only Lunar Wings can outrun.
tired haven
injection is self-harm, not allowed to be hotkey'ed
Bam nice reasoning
distant gyro
Bringing Astrum Deus to pre-LC makes Duke Fishron and Cultist have a 2-boss gap, and Golem-Cultist having a 4-boss gap
fervent zealot
deus already has a good new home during the lunar events
it's thematically fitting and the amount of effort needed to take it to postml fight wise is too damn high
distant gyro
Hardmode progression is normally Calamity-Vanilla-Calamity-Vanilla- ...
earnest raptor
Cheesenades
distant gyro
The only exception to this is Golem because the gap is too short
earnest raptor
@tired haven well, yharim stimulants are also self-harm but can be hotkey'ed.
tired haven
They aren't tho?
distant gyro
injection takes away your hp on use
pretty sure stims have zero negative buffs applied to the player
earnest raptor
Because the needle is hecking cosmic titan.
While stimulants's needle is more soft.
distant gyro
also what determines when to use injection
tired haven
You drink yharim stims still anyway 
distant gyro
do you just keep injecting yourself if you happen to have a mana flower?
sleek wadi
Make Yharim Stims deal 1 self damage because needle hurtmn
shell grotto
How do yharims stims hurt you?
distant gyro
that could backfire on the player 
distant gyro
also yharim's stims are orally consumed according to use style
so thank fuck logic is in a video game
ancient crow
just eat the fucking syringe
distant gyro
consume the syringe
tepid root
where does the syringe go
ancient crow
c r u n c h y
sleek wadi
Aight then, make all potions deal 1 self damage each upon use because oof ouchy cronchy shell
sleek wadi
Also comes with glass break sound
ancient crow
now that i think about it, potions in terraria dont give the bottle back
sooo
cronch
earnest raptor
@tepid root since syringe is plastic, maybe Terrarian digests it into protein.
distant gyro
tepid root
wh
ancient crow
when minecraft first added honey bottles they were like that
you would just c o n s u m e the whole thing
earnest raptor
But it will activate other potions.
tired haven
Add money conservation mechanic to Coin Gun
Coin Gun is one of the most unique concepts in the game, allowing you to shoot literal money at the enemies and being able to decide how much damage you want to deal. However, one thing that seems rather strange is that all the coins just cease to exist after being shot.
A proposal here is to let coins get stuck or fall out of the enemy if you successfully hit them. Accuracy is heavily rewarded with being able to keep firing for a lot longer... but so is greediness improved.
Meme suggestion but whatcha think?
shell grotto
More like add another coin layer, past platinum
swift wadi
I like that
shell grotto
Then use the coin gun
mental violet
You don't eat the syringes. You squirt them on your tongue like a Juicy Drop Pop.
tired haven
Don't think anyone legit uses coin gun past gold coins anyway
swift wadi
"but so is greediness improved." sorry but what does this mean
tired haven
It means you would want to shoot coins of higher tier since you save more money now
mental violet
If you never miss you never lose money.
shell grotto
Probably true, but it would be funny to see that thing clock out a higher dps than soma prime
swift wadi
I dont think the "improved" at the end is needed and it's tripping me up, or I'm being stupid and reading it wrong
mental violet
There's a challenge run waiting to happen.
upbeat scroll
CrabBar, just grind King Slimes 
mental violet
"Can I beat boss rush with 100 platinum coins?"
upbeat scroll
NEVER ENDING MONEY
swift wadi
I do like the idea a lot though, it would be a great gimmick to add to a gun that's entire existence is being a gimmick
tired haven
improved word does stick out a fair bit ye, would rephrase maybe
upbeat scroll
Or make it so that it rewards accuracy with more money than what you shot
tired haven
Nah, that's plain disaster for farming
upbeat scroll
KING SLIME
upbeat scroll
Isn't there an accessory that makes more money drop from enemies?
Wouldn't that break the suggestion?
tired haven
It won't because it affects inner drops from enemy and not what got stuck in the enemy
shell grotto
Thanks
hollow shell
np
upbeat scroll
still i think there might be a bug or two with it as it still counts as a coin-
hollow shell
Also it's understandable that Belladonna would be somewhat powerful considering early Jungle is a hellscape
and you need 8 vines to craft it
fucking 8
swift wadi
same with yatevo's bloom or whatever
ancient crow
meme idea: coin gun can shoot defender medals 
swift wadi
strong because jungle memes
shell grotto
Fair but its still easy to get
shell grotto
😂😂😂😂😂
quiet abyss
Don't spam emotes like that, please
shell grotto
Apologies, it was just funny (not the spam, the suggestion, its my way of expressing laughter)
Plus it only is 1 line thick, not too bad
It just suddenly got super quiet
hollow shell
ok
sinful steeple
A rage boss roar would be useful
shell grotto
I feel like the stupid speed is enough of an indicator to most, no?
subtle oracle
Couldn't you tell he's enranged when he starts to speed up becoming way faster than the player??
sinful steeple
Like the deep boss roar Skeletron does when it respawns the arms
sleek wadi
He still outspeeds the player plenty even in space, so the enrage is a bit hard to notice considering you get blitz'd either way
hollow shell
Well the problem is when you spend most of the fight outside of space, it's hard to know that there's a "normal" speed that isn't stupid
sleek wadi
Doing close circles around a worm boss is cursed btw
shell grotto
Understandable, just figured people know that generally, you dont exit the biome you spawn a boss in.
Its a good idea though
hollow shell
(people would be quite motivated to fight him out of space due to the floaty gravity making quick movement and avoiding the Weaver very difficult)
Can be combatted with the potion, though
sleek wadi
A lot of bosses in Calamity are also easier outside of their intended fight space, such as Brimstone Elemental and debatably PBG
shell grotto
PBG doesnt get enraged?
sleek wadi
PBG gets enraged on surface, you're supposed to fight it underground
You never noticed because the enrage isn't that severe
glossy falcon
I never knew that
hollow shell
Exactly
glossy falcon
I always fought her in the surface
shell grotto
Oh lmao, been fighting it enraged this whole time lmfao
And beating it easy all the same lmfao
upbeat scroll
Just make the enraged bosses the norm
it fits the theme of the boss anyways
especially in rev/death
it's supposed to be harder and that really helps that
upbeat scroll
eh, it's good practice anyways for dodging high speed bosses
sand umbra
have you ever fought enraged Storm Weaver?
sand umbra
it's fun to die in two seconds to a worm that is entirely too fast?
that's a new one
upbeat scroll
it's just a faster eidolyn
sand umbra
...in any event
enraged bosses becoming the norm for Rev+ is a horrible idea
(many bosses' "enrage" consists solely of them going invincible or near-invincible and some others still such as Storm Weaver are just horrible to put up with for the average person)
upbeat scroll
queen bee-
queen bee is like the only "enraged" that's somewhat fun in the good way to kill
sand umbra
and if her enraged form was made a constant the only choice you'd have would be to fight her enraged because you don't have the space otherwise
upbeat scroll
true
sand umbra
many boss enrages that do edit boss behavior usually do so to balance against an increase in options --- player mobility, fighting space, etc.
upbeat scroll
Now, let's talk about Destroyer-
upbeat scroll
The "SCal" of Pre-Calamitas Hardmode-
sand umbra
wait what
upbeat scroll
what?
sand umbra
Destroyer is not the "SCal of pre-Clonamitas Hardmode"
sand umbra
SCal doesn't muddle her own thematics and have attacks that directly clash with the rest of the fight
upbeat scroll
*Difficulty wise
sand umbra
Destroyer is just ass, and I've already explained why in the sugg I made on him earlier today 
it's all about those frost lasers
gusty geode
I actually kinda like how Destroyer was a joke in vanilla but is infamously difficult in Calamity
upbeat scroll
I mean for the bullet hell side of calamity sure it's fun but ONCE YOU GET HIT-
upbeat scroll
It's noms you like the DoG noms gods
sand umbra
it clashes really heavily with the thematics and necessary strategy for the fight, too
there's no reason for Destroyer to be able to fire frost lasers whatsoever, he just does
upbeat scroll
"Oh I see an unlucky fellow playing death is having fun-" 
sand umbra
and they honestly feel really out of place in a fight that...honestly? demands constant movement
it's funny
gusty geode
Imo it has as much reason to do it as it does to fire homing lasers
Plus it fits well with Twins having fire and Prime having
Explosives ig
sand umbra
Destroyer in vanilla has historically been the easiest mech due to none of his few attacks really doing anything to an even remotely prepared player
upbeat scroll
Oh god it feels like DoG but even more cancer earlier in the game... oh wait... *DoG was a resprite of Destroyer... IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW
gusty geode
Electricity attack for Prime when
sand umbra
Calamity's Rev+ Destroyer has historically been the worst mech to fight even after the series of nerfs that have been applied to him and the others
upbeat scroll
DESTROYER STOLE SOME OF THAT DOG ENERGY AND BECAME ULTIMATE DOG SUPREME-
You could even make the Virgin and Chad meme about him- but anyways, going on topic, obv nerf needed lmao
sand umbra
byeah
in short, there is a very blunt necessity for a nerf to Destroyer, and I really feel the solution lies within replacing the frost lasers with something else
tawny gyro
how would you guys feel about rocket and endless gel, similar to endless bullets and endless arrows?
for obvious reasons, only Rocket I can be made infinite
and you can't use infini-gel in crafting
tired haven
Common suggestions that don't get much recognition
(and probably exist in Infinity mod)
sinful steeple
How would you even use enough rockets/gel to make a need for that
tired haven
Gel is spent rather quickly
tawny gyro
i don't see the problem with gel
tired haven
Rockets aren't but eh
sinful steeple
Like with bullets and arrows it's more understandable since like 80% of the ranger class is guns/bows
tawny gyro
you can farm KS for like ~150 gel/kill
sand umbra
but what if it takes ~150 gel/kill to farm him
sinful steeple
But gel is already so plentiful you'll have many stacks without trying and rockets you are never going to need
tawny gyro
so you can get 4 stacks of gel rather fast
sand umbra
rockets you are absolutely going to need because Snowman Cannon exists
tawny gyro
given you'll be in hm by the time you'll craft this
sinful steeple
No I mean you're never going to need 3996 rockets
tawny gyro
but also, endless arrows and bullets are vanilla
sinful steeple
That's just an excessive amount
earnest raptor
@sinful steeple well, I have used snowball in masothorium and have used around 2 rocket after hour.
So infinity rocket would be good.
tawny gyro
the fun thing in calamity is that it expands on flamethrowers and rocket launchers
so far as to add a new shroomite helmet for flamethrowers
sand umbra
endless gel makes more sense given that yeah, Calamity adds a ton more flamethrowers
and a rocket crate or three sounds nice since shit as far in as Magnomaly exists
upbeat scroll
You know
this would've worked more if Astral slime was still in (rip astral boi) as he could've dropped an infinite gel thing
Slime god could also drop it as a riv drop
riv of regular gel
lmao
tawny gyro
actually, now I'm wondering
what if you could use pink gel, blighted gel and purified gel in flamethrowers?
earnest raptor
There was suggestion like that.
sinful steeple
Murky sludge too because it was already so plentiful
opal barn
@void gyro suggestions that ask for resprites are not allowed
gray nebula
oh someone suggested a resprite time to do it then
opal barn
oh my god is that yharim???
gray nebula
void gyro
@opal barn sorry idk it
tired haven
sinful steeple
vocal wing
Actual suggestion
Make a reminder for the people that didn't read the pinned messages to read them
sinful steeple
How are people gonna see the reminder?
Eventually it'll get swallowed by messages
Then it goes to pinned
Where like 40% of people don't read it
teal ibex
you can't force people to read, it's just how it be
hollow idol
To be fair that resprite suggestion did offer the reason of "Its not consistent with birb"
sinful steeple
And also kinda took a dump on Yern which is a don't
vocal wing
@ashen warren wtf
teal ibex
power
hollow idol
get on the spriting Iban
sinful steeple
zenith hazel
yeah no meme suggestions please, that's gonna be a warn
ashen warren
i meant it as a joke but its actually getting a tiny bit of attention
hey dev approves
teal ibex
this combo of messages, a tragedy in two parts
zenith hazel
I'm also a dev and I don't approve because iban kinda stinky
cosmic musk
haha funny skeleton man haha
ashen warren
skeleton man = funny
gray nebula
ashen warren
maybe rename the True Shadow Scale instead of Darkness Scale or Dark Scale to "Scale of Darkness"
@tawny garden
tawny garden
Maybe
ashen warren
but i like your idea
sinful steeple
Or maybe dead scale since the Hive Mind is a mass of dead flesh?
tawny garden
updated.
pulsar jay
Rotten Scale
hollow idol
“weapon”
Every boss would be too much even if this sugg were likely to get accepted. Just the important ones at most
ashen warren
oof in Hive Mind im already bad but its not a long fight. buffing its damage and nerfing his hp would make him too fast to kill
(my opinion)
gray nebula
Hive mind's fight should last roughly 3 minutes
ashen warren
yeah, and perfarators is almost the same battle duration.
ashen warren
are you using a wooden bow and regular arrows or something, hive mind shouldn't take anywhere near DoG lengths
its not my suggestion
you also didn't mention DoG :P
ashen warren
oh im dumb
sand umbra
Aureus Spawns are honestly my only real issue with the Aureus fight right now because they so heavily contradict like everything else about the fight
they yell at you to not hit them but then after like 5-6 seconds of not being hit they teleport near you all like "i-it's not like i WANTED you to hit me or anything................baka"
hexed ore
That's a pretty accurate explanation
lost agate
sike
strong minnow
@feral flume rephrase your sugg please
meager orbit
yeah, but its really similar. there are only more fireballs and faster charges
maybe he should breathe out fire or something
since hes a dragon do some dragon things
toxic kettle
Like one or two months ago people kept complaining about Yharon being too hard
meager orbit
eh, i guess it's just me then.
toxic kettle
then his tornadoes were nerfed by a lot
but he shoots way more homing dusts
Yharon's tornadoes used to cover the majority of one's screen
I don't think people would want that back
meager orbit
well i mean you could balance it out, and change the acutal dragon to make it playable
toxic kettle
not sure if the Devs would really be that interested in changing Yharon's fight once again
meager orbit
probably not lol
sand umbra
you say that, Flo, but remember that the boss right before him gets a rework every 2-3 months
and honestly, given people are once again saying that DoG is easy now, I smell another one coming on soon
toxic kettle
That's kind of DoG's shtick
sand umbra
it's still worth noting
almost every rework comes with a new sprite too
and he just gets bigger with every resprite
meager orbit
lmao
sand umbra
you think I'm kidding but the latest resprite didn't really do anything major except make him a bigger chungus than the sprite before it
ashen warren
Should Philo still repost his sugg even tho it got approved?
hollow shell
Oh, yeah
@tawny garden You don't need to repost if it already got 120 stars
upbeat scroll
@ashen warren isn't Obsidian Armor you know, pre-hardmode before statigel?
wooden wedge
obsidian armor is pre-boss
upbeat scroll
If you actually paid attention to the suggesiton...
"Add in a new exclusive Rogue armor available Pre-Boss in Hardmode"
Pre-Boss in Hardmode
Not Pre-hardmode
lost agate
Pre mechs is a more often used term
upbeat scroll
Calamity also adds non-mechbosses before them, such as cryogen, but that's a sort of joke boss-
lost agate
Wasnt he buffed not so long ago
meager orbit
i love rogue lol its so fun late game
viscid light
eh i am sorry i am new in this server where is the art server of the calamity?
zealous ridge
its in the info channel
but youd be better off asking in #help-advice-read-pins for future reference
viscid light
thank you 0^0
zealous ridge
hmm
very simple fix
but it feels more like an oversight, don't you think?
i mean, sure, they caught most of the mistakes, but im honestly not surprised they forgot one thing
gusty geode
Chaotic Ore got renamed?
radiant meadow
ye
gusty geode
Huh
What prompted that?
wooden wedge
a lot of things got renamed
radiant meadow
redesign/resprite, differentiate it from essence of chaos
those were the main two reasons
hallow kraken
May I ask things like mode and gear?
frail mantle
you may
zealous ridge
@ashen warren real quick, could we ask what mode you were on and what gear you used?
ashen warren
@zealous ridge revengence mode i used the sand elemental air elemental nothing else that i can remember or actually had effects that weren't small stat boosts i used titanium armor and for weapons i used the lunic eye and the aestheticus plus i had no buffs
zealous ridge
i... uh
uh. really? just sand and cloud elementals?
alongside classless weapons, i guess
hallow kraken
nothing else they can remember
pulsar jay
I thought the hallowed rune exploit was what made it strong
zealous ridge
oh ye, do you remember having hallowed rune on?
zealous ridge
or wait..,., that's post 3mechs
ashen warren
i did it before the new update by the way
zealous ridge
bruh
radiant meadow
I have no idea why vigil is so strong all of a sudden
when I nerfed it like 5 times
zealous ridge
i think something fucked up flamethrower iframes
but in any case
sand and cloud elementals being able to kill levi is... sus
do you have kill times, lewis?
ashen warren
no but it took about three minutes
zealous ridge
hallow kraken
now this is a meme
zealous ridge
well, that might need to be checked out
wooden wedge
3 minutes kill time is normal though?
ashen warren
yep
radiant meadow
normal for on tier
wooden wedge
huh.
zealous ridge
i feel like it should be harder if youre using post-cryo stuff
ashen warren
yeah me too
zealous ridge
like not literally harder, but like the fight should be made harder for earlier tier players
killing levi at that tier should be a challenge so that the reward is warranted
perhaps part of it is how the sand and cloud elementals work
levi is probably torn apart by those tornadoes
and siren can be managed with early hm gear on her own
ashen warren
i had that accessory that the archmage sells that gives you a extra life too
ashen warren
yep
zealous ridge
if there were any other weapons you remember, tell us, just incase its a busted weapon that is causing problems
ashen warren
na i remember clearly my hotbar i didn't use any other weapons
zealous ridge
wow
i might have to test that
try testing and getting some actual stats in the most recent update to make your suggestion stronger
pulsar jay
something fucked up flamethrower iframes?
ashen warren
yeah you should
pulsar jay
probably
vigil has no iframes despite all of catacysm's effort
or was ot catastrophe
which one dashes like eoc?
zealous ridge
i believe calamini does? i may be misremebering
either its calamini or catastromini
frail mantle
Calamitamini lasers
ashen warren
saddly i can't because i mixed up that world and i accidentally deleted it plus i haven't even beaten a boss yet on my new world
zealous ridge
hmm okay
when you get to post-cryogen try it out again and tell us how it went
ill keep an eye on it on my own playthrough too
pulsar jay
I'm gonna go back and kill levi legit. Vigil made me feel bad. Not plantera though. She'd be piss easy regsrdless
ashen warren
okay will do but do you visit this channel often cause the next time i will be able to play terraia will be next weekend
ashen warren
good
sand umbra
oh hey, a sugg that could make Rev+ Cultist actually interesting
toxic kettle
Rev+ Cultist is "have great DPS or die"
Can't find the right Cultist out of the 7 in like 3 seconds? Have a dragon. Can't kill the dragon in time? Have an Ancient Vision. Oh and have I told you about the 100 projectiles on screen?
at least the projectile rain was removed
distant gyro
that's a normal cultist thing
if you don't find the right cultist in time you get a dragon
what differentiates rev+ cultist from normal is that you don't get punished for having poor accuracy
toxic kettle
Yea but most of the time I'm so occupied with killing the dragon, as soon as I kill it the Cultist has another one ready for me
indigo fog
You'll like always kill the dragon in time because some weapons just melt it
distant gyro
so the real part is**
If you have any projectile spam, you win
it's not about the DPS that determines whether or not you can beat the dragon if you can projectile spam your way to make dragon not spawn in the first place
toxic kettle
you still gotta be accurate with your projectiles
if you hit the wrong cultist, have a dragon
so "spamming" projectiles I don't think really works there
distant gyro
that actually doesn't apply to rev+ cultist
if you hit the wrong cultist nothing disappears and you receive no consequences
toxic kettle
distant gyro
@toxic kettle in case you need proof
toxic kettle
my life is a lie
toxic kettle
removing that is kinda weird
getting punished for hitting the wrong cultist is like, the most memorable thing about it
if you actually want people to actively try and find the right cultist out of the 7, you should bring that back
it's Rev after all
ashen warren
........
toxic kettle
Cultist is about being accurate and if you fail, it turns into a DPS race
as it should
ashen warren
you know...i never thought something like that existed
god dammit why does it have to be the cultist
thats even worse than SCal
distant gyro
well no
ashen warren
punishment wise
distant gyro
everything is easier if you have more dps
ashen warren
i mean hitting thw wrong thing means you have to wait a full day before trying again iirc
distant gyro
(eidolon tablets exist)
ashen warren
oh ye
toxic kettle
it's not like the battle ends if you hit the wrong cultist
ashen warren
?
toxic kettle
you just get shit on by a Phantasm Dragon
calm temple
Really not sure where to have a serious discussion about this. I noticed that the small little change in worldgen in 1.4.4 actually changed a lot of other, seemingly unrelated things about the worldgen. On identical seeds and conditions, the new patch caused different loot in chests, world evil chasms being moved around, living trees changing place, and the dungeon generating differently. I posted an example in #bugs-read-pins and never got a response, and #calamity-mod-talk just ignored me when I brought it up. As far as I'm aware, the worldgen changing this much never happened in previous updates, as the modded biomes were just sort of placed on top of the vanilla world gen. To anyone who's worked with Terraria on a more technical level, how easy would it be to fix something like this?
calm temple
oh okay
ashen warren
check the #calamity-mod-talk pins
calm temple
Yeah I saw that, I assumed it was just talking about things like this
karmic stone
I posted an example in #bugs-read-pins and never got a response
You were told to check pins and Ozza pinged you later, also bugs don't go in suggmas
calm temple
This was earlier this week
sand umbra
what differentiates rev+ cultist from normal is that you don't get punished for having poor accuracy
yeah
I'd actually argue this is the biggest issue with Rev+ Cultist, honestly
the fact that he removes any and all punishment for not just spamming your bullets at the nearest Cultist and going in order when a ritual occurs
unkempt bolt
wait is that how rev cultist works lol?
i figured i was always getting it wrong haha
sand umbra
you can't hit clones, which don't disappear even when the real Cultist is hit
it sounds awesome on paper but there are a multitude of factors that prevent it from working well in execution unless you overhaul the fight entirely
and rebalance it around that idea
unkempt bolt
cultist has always been pretty sketchy
sand umbra
...Rev+ Cultist doesn't do that
he removes nearly all skill-based elements from the rituals and the rest of the fight is virtually unchanged despite it needing multiple changes to account for the removal of those skill-based elements
it turns into a big fat DPS race
I've always disliked Rev+ Cultist with a passion because in trying to make LC "stronger" or "harder" it completely misses the point of the one thing it drastically changes
vivid salmon
Yeah I saw that, I assumed it was just talking about things like this
@calm temple That actually looks really cool.
hollow shell
Here's a fun idea:
In Revengeance, hitting any of the duplicate cultists at any point will cause them to retaliate
so the more bullets you spam at them, the more you get fucked
toxic kettle
I bet the idea to keep the duplicates was implemented with the idea in mind to make the rituals harder, but that is completely thrown out of the window by not being able to hit the duplicates whatsoever
sand umbra
see that's just it
sand umbra
the two ideas contradict each other entirely
toxic kettle
Apparently I've been fighting Rev Cultist wrong the entire time
sand umbra
(also Rover that is a chad idea and I may return to it at some point when I properly finish EE Cultkist)
unkempt bolt
hitting a duplicate causes it to duplicate
toxic kettle
projectile spam could've easily won me the fight
pulsar jay
entrophy's vigil just gets stronger and stronger every time they try to nerf it
i have an idea
to assure that is stays down
put a cap on it
toxic kettle
Imo having to check the sprites of 7 cultists within a few seconds is a good idea, but only if you get punished for getting it wrong
pulsar jay
limit it to one set
sand umbra
yeah, like
pulsar jay
or make it cost 3 slots each
sand umbra
you don't get punished for just firing willy-nilly with Rev+ Cultist
...which completely misses the original point of the rituals
the whole point of LC's summoning rituals in the base fight is to get you to slow the fuck down and pay attention for a moment
unkempt bolt
making vigil cost 3 slots each is a bit extreme
you have like 9 slots at that stage in the game
sand umbra
you are actively punished for spraying bullets like an idiot, and approaching it with patience and observation is rewarded with no funny meme dragon and no funny meme clones
unkempt bolt
what if you had 8 though
pulsar jay
considering how powerful they are that's a reasonable amount tbh
and there are other summons to be using
which is the point
vigil outclasses all of them and discouraged variety as a result
unkempt bolt
all of the best summons discourage variety though
pulsar jay
i personally think they should just limit it to 1 set of minis
unkempt bolt
unless you intentionally sacrifice damage, you're gonna use an army of only one minion
pulsar jay
at also doesn't really make much sense to have a swarm of them anyway
considering what they are
but that's just me
sand umbra
Rev+ Cultist throws all of this right out the window
you can't hit the clones, so you no longer have to care how many bullets you're spraying
you have less and less time to hit the right clone as the fight progresses, so you have to spam bullets to really do anything given the above
the clones stick around after a ritual no matter if you pass or fail, so much of the reward for not being stupid is gone
in short: Rev+ Cultist's rituals completely miss the point and should honestly be changed but I'd be ripped apart for making a sugg about it because muh difficulty
hollow shell
(I'm tellin ya man
Retaliation
Expand the careful shooting to the whole fight)
unkempt bolt
the main issue with vigil in terms of being OP imo is how often they hit
sand umbra
(honestly though that's a hella cool idea)
pulsar jay
if you give it i frames it becomes as terrible as the twins
unkempt bolt
if they hit less often, it would fix the issue of them being pretty powerful, and fix hallowed rune
pulsar jay
let's not have a copy of them
hollow shell
I could suggest it myself if you don't want to for whatever reason
unkempt bolt
im not saying iframes
sand umbra
I mean I guess I could write up a sugg for it
unkempt bolt
maybe it's possible for only the flamethrower to give iframes, that only apply to the flamethrower?
sand umbra
but like as far as I remember every time I've tried to bring this up in the past either nobody cares or the people present that do have the entirely opposite viewpoint
unkempt bolt
that just sounds like hell though, and doesnt even sound like it'd work
pulsar jay
i don't think that's a thing
sand umbra
ID-static i-frames
hollow shell
That is in fact already a thing
unkempt bolt
and it would have to apply separately to each cataclysm lul
pulsar jay
I've been limiting myself to having one set of the minis
it's working wonders
not too weak
not too strong
perfectly balanced as all things should be
sand umbra
anywho
lemme see if I can write up something for Cultist
I wholeheartedly expect it to never actually go through
but it'll be a good sugg construction exercise and I can just snag the idea myself if it doesn't make it
toxic kettle
how is that retaliation supposed to look like
hollow shell
Like just shooting one projectile at you
toxic kettle
so you take damage if you hit the wrong Cultist on top of the dragon coming after you
hollow shell
Well the dragon doesn't exist in Rev+ I guess?
unkempt bolt
i think he also means throughout the whole fight
toxic kettle
it does
unkempt bolt
i've seen the dragon in rev
hollow shell
Yes I mean through the whole fight
Because rituals do nothing
or rather they always guarantee clone spawns
hollow shell
aight
sand umbra
except it almost never happens until the part where you're ripping LC apart with Adrenaline anyway
pulsar jay
and how would this work with summoner?
sand umbra
(granted, it doesn't help that the rest of the fight is almost unchanged, but I'm focusing on the rituals since these are arguably the biggest thing Rev+ actually changes)
toxic kettle
probably works the same as Summoner vs. Normal/Expert cultist
just with more decoys
instead of specifically targeting one out of 3, you have to target one out of 7
pulsar jay
summoners don't aim
how do you punish them for bad aim
when they don't do any of it
toxic kettle
can't you make summons target specific enemies
hollow shell
You frogget
calm temple
You can use the right click circle thingy to target
hollow shell
Golden Gun
pulsar jay
eh
sand umbra
Rework Rev+ Cultist's rituals to allow hitting the wrong cultist and not guarantee clone spawns. Additionally, make those clones retaliate in some fashion when struck throughout the fight once they exist.
(Bonus points: clones that already existed before a ritual still don't dissipate.)
❔
As it is currently, the rituals are the one aspect of this fight which is actually majorly adjusted...except the issue is that they completely miss the point of LC's rituals in the base fight. In the vanilla battle with the main main sealing the Moon Lord away, his summoning rituals are present to force the player to slow down for a second and think about where they're firing rather than spraying bullets everywhere. Calamity prevents you from hitting any Cultist except the real one and shortens the time you have to pick out the right Cultist, meaning you basically have to spray those bullets everywhere if you don't want a Phantasmal Dragon up your ass. Furthermore, that is the only punishment for doing it wrong, because clones always stick around even if you get it right, removing a large portion of the compensation for not being an idiot.
The proposed idea is that when a cultist clone is shot, it "retaliates" in some fashion --- copying current LC attack, using a new attack, jamming the player's weapons...there are a lot of different ways to go about it, but the point is that they retaliate when hit...and that it carries on throughout the fight. This would actually give LC's clones a reason to exist past shadowflame fireballs and increased Ancient Doom spawns, and combined with the rest of the changes mentioned would expand the original point of the rituals to the entire fight, making the battle a test of intelligence and observance rather than a mere test of firepower.
holy fuck that almost hit the char limit
ssssssssomething like this, mayhaps....?
eternal wind
woah remember when we discussed why scal doesn't have a trophy?
someone went and made one
unkempt bolt
i like the sugg, thomas
hollow shell
This seems like a good sugg Thomas
I'd prolly break the topic sentence into two sentences but that's about it
gusty geode
Was this always there 
Never seen this before tbh
ancient crow
squishy green bee
sand umbra
I had to sell the typical objection period because of budget cuts associated with how much space this sugg took up 
crude geode
Is there something in the works already/a suggestion not a week old to nerf Cataclymini, seeing as how it's the major reason why Entropy's Vigil discourages variety?
unkempt bolt
there was a sugg recently concerning entropy's vigil and hallowed rune
but i believe that focused more on the rune
crude geode
Makes sense really
Personally I feel as though the I-D Static I-Frames idea that Thomas brought up could work as a solution, or possibly lowering the range of targeting that Cataclymini has, forcing you to get closer for it to deal maximum damage.
toxic kettle
Hive Mind needing a resprite does not mean that Perfs needed a resprite
queen delta
Asking for resprites is a suggestion dont
hollow idol
the perf resprite got delayed for half a year because no one resprited Hive Mind
hallow kraken
change to x does not mean x’s counterpart should also be changed in the same way
hollow shell
That could potentially be due to the fact that you have access to the insta-kill accessories at that point
Enemy health isn't super relevant
s'more just how many times you hit em
toxic kettle
You also have those for the twohit moons
mental violet
I know, but even the buffed Mothrons are dying near instantly.
toxic kettle
But the moons have way more minibosses to watch out for
mental violet
The buffed pumpkings and frost queens at least come out fast enough to be a challenge.
hollow shell
You don't, Flo, at least not through most of them (the first time you do them post-DoG)
They require EE and NF
sinful steeple
Maybe I'm just weird but I find buffed solar eclipses to be super difficult
All the enemies are complete tanks so I just hope for nanomachines to dome them
mental violet
Also someone said that summoners don't have a way to attack on their own, what if the Midnight Sun UFO laser barrage didn't replace your minions with a UFO if you have the max summoned?
sinful steeple
And they hit for a lot of damage
mental violet
Then the laser barrage could be a means of attack.
sinful steeple
Ehh
hollow shell
The vertical lasers they make when they spawn, you mean?
mental violet
Yes.
sinful steeple
I think a weapon counting as summoner that is a direct attack obtainable at the start of the game would be better
toxic kettle
Ah shoot they need the energies
hollow shell
That's meant to be mostly aesthetic
It doesn't do a lot of damage
(Also the whole point of summoner is not attacking on your own)
sinful steeple
Because like ghost bells and abyss enemies aren't considered aggressive which isn't great for summoner
mental violet
Would be a far sight better than the Aesthetcius.
sand umbra
(Also the whole point of summoner is not attacking on your own)
(having to manually mine to and aggro every Ghost Bell in the Sunken Sea is incredibly annoying and you know it)
sinful steeple
I usually used the victide shell to hit them
Or I just faceplanted into them and hit them with Amidias' spark
Which is not a great solution but it works
hollow shell
Add a new classless weapon which does nothing but deal 1 damage to the enemy beneath the cursor.
"The Poker"
mental violet
Honestly though. Some sort of end game classes weapon would be neat.
A combined version of the Aesthetcius, Eye of Magnus, and Golden Gun.
Come to think of it, why is there no corruption version of the golden gun?
sinful steeple
That is a good question
sturdy pelican
where would i suggest something for calamity extra music mod
sinful steeple
The Extra Music server
unkempt bolt
oh please give granite elementals a light source lol
calm temple
Probably, yeah. I specifically mentioned Cosmic Elementals because Granite Elementals spawn in identical conditions to Granite Golems, which make a very easy to recognize sound.
unkempt bolt
or just remove them
calm temple
If you can hear the golems, you can know that you're not safe.
unkempt bolt
enemies spawning and floating their way into my safe space is not something i enjoy
wooden wedge
pretty sure that's a no because nobody wants to sprite for them
pulsar jay
there could just be a summon weapon that isn't realy a weapon
it places a target at the cursor and deals like 1 damage
it makes minions attack whatever but isn't much of an active weapon
wooden wedge
what
pulsar jay
reaponding to an earlier conversation
wooden wedge
mmmk
hollow shell
ye that's exactly what I said
molten dune
maybe more like [Name] failed the challenge at hand, due to [thing that murdered you].
gusty geode
"[Name] hit a {thing that murdered you}. Test failed."
ashen warren
previously your legs just appeared on your head
sinful steeple
From the wiki page for Bumblebirb: "Its name may be a combination of "bumblebee" and "bird", which, given the lore's mentioning of their incredibly high reproductive rates, may be a reference to the phrase 'The Birds and the Bees'."
Also Bumblebirb is an avian dragon so bird makes sense
radiant meadow
A name change is in order
gilded pike
ah
while you are completely correct "birb" does not fit a scary bird dragon
perhaps simply bumblebird would work
civic pond
i dont really see any part of it that looks bumble to me
hollow shell
iirc it was suggested in this channel (and also separately by Metarex) to rename it to "Blunderbird"
which I think is a pretty okay name
Sounds like Thunderbird (which it kinda is)
Sounds like Bumblebirb (so the identity won't be too different)
and the bird itself is a blunder, a mistake, in its existence
civic pond
I like it 
hollow idol
same
radiant meadow
The Grand Thunderbird
grim dust
What a brilliant and original idea
ionic lark
Noom Lord
He noms
Or even better
Just a fat load of worm bosses.
sorry Destroyer
pulsar jay
le grande duntherflirb
ashen warren
in what universe are chargers slow
hollow idol
^
sand umbra
honestly though
in what fucking universe are Antlion Chargers anything resembling slow
especially in Death Mode where they're already well on their way to yessing across the map on spawn
indigo fog
I thought they were like super fast in death
distant gyro
pulsar jay
is that trippy lighting...?
indigo fog
was this changed or something
sand umbra
couple Death's increased aggressiveness on everything with Antlion Chargers' lack of a proper speed cap
calm temple
Okay...? Maybe I should change it to being less prone to stunlocking. There was literally one that I easily stunlocked. With an early game bow.
sand umbra
because you caught it basically as it was spawning
you can't give Antlion Chargers any room to move or you will die
ashen warren
count yourself lucky, and don't make suggestions from just one encounter
if you notice something it's better to test that something
calm temple
Fair enough.
pulsar jay
antlion chargers don't have any real counterplay
ug desert is too enclosed in certain areas
wooden wedge
lifeform analizer arrow isn't calamity @regal root
wooden wedge
the point is that it just ain't clamity
tepid root
well yeah im just saying
sinful steeple
If it's based on an addition separate from Calamity then it shouldn't be in Calamity
ashen warren
I agree it should be a thing but Calamity ain’t gonna do it, the mod that did the lifeform thing will
mental violet
I like the idea of a claptrap pet, but it's a little on the nose.
ashen warren
they have an infinity pistol and a norfleet
mental violet
Not how I mean.
ashen warren
and the conference call- o
mental violet
I means it's a little too direct of a reference.
ashen warren
hmm
mental violet
Maybe something like a baby Eridian.
mental violet
That would also be neat.
Could use a model of a pirate summon.
But retooled to be steve.
ashen warren
kek
crude geode
Most of the time references to other games are either Donator Weapons or otherwise just happen to fit and the Dev team wants to
mental violet
I agree Macaroni, there should be a version of each in each world.
crude geode
Seems kind of like
sinful steeple
Not like a different version, the same item
Because it's near unobtainable in adamantite worlds
sinful steeple
Yeah
crude geode
^
sinful steeple
But chancing for titanium in crates shouldn't be the only way to get it in those worlds
mental violet
But for real. Getting items from the other evil to a world is hard as heck!
crude geode
That’s kind of the point tho
mental violet
Needing to establish artificial underground evils is a total pain.
crude geode
Is that each world is meant to be unique, and that’s why crimson and corruption exist
sinful steeple
And like the cobalt shield and ion blaster can be crafted with the other ore
crude geode
Balance wise crimson island spawns so melee and rogue can have their weapons
From their chests
sinful steeple
Yes but not having items of the other biome really stinks
mental violet
You know that reminds me.
sinful steeple
Like ebonkoi and hemopiranhas are really good
Though tbh the fish are basically the only easily obtainable other biome resource
sinful steeple
Because filling the cavern left by mining out the evil ore with water creates a suitable fishing area for the thing
Well yeah the ore too but the ore sucks lol
mental violet
Actually wait.
I forgot.
Calamity adds Ichor and Cursed Flames to evil crates.
Nevermind my complaint.
crude geode
mental violet
Eyh.
sinful steeple
Not too common and in little amounts
mental violet
Crates aren't so bad, and it's not like you need a ton if you want to make one or two exact items.
crude geode
^
sinful steeple
Biome crates are uncommon and those are an uncommon drop from them
mental violet
Also. Aquatic Scourge makes fishing a breeze.
mental violet
Have you tried any multi-line rod?
sinful steeple
Doesn't stop rare items from being rare
Multi-line rods don't make rare items statistically more common
Multi-line rods means you'll get more items in general
mental violet
Did... did you read those two sentences you just typed?
sinful steeple
Yes
mental violet
More chances at a rare thing = more of the rare thing.
sinful steeple
More items means you will get more rare items but they are still rare
mental violet
...
sinful steeple
No amount of fishing lines and crate potions change that
mental violet
So you get more of them, but that doesn't make them more common?
sinful steeple
You also get more of everything else
crude geode
bruh
mental violet
Dude.
Something being easier to get.
Is the exact definition of it being less rare.
I don
't mean to be pedantic but jeez.
sinful steeple
Being able to fish faster doesn't change it from being like a 5% drop
crude geode
“Still as rare”
“Less of a pain”
You’re literally contradicting yourself.
mental violet
The drop rates of items in the crates are effectively increased if you are looking at the total items you end up with and increase the number of crates you have at the start.
More crates = more chances = more items = effectively less rare.
crude geode
If you have a crate potion on you have a 20% chance of getting a crate. 1/5. Base terraria.
mental violet
Well that's even more stupid!
sinful steeple
I was talking about biome crates being rare
mental violet
Of course the box and potions and multi line hooks help!
sinful steeple
Yes. A crate. Not a biome crate
sinful steeple
More crates also means more crates that are not biome crates
mental violet
...
crude geode
This is getting off topic anyways.
sinful steeple
Biome crates aren't suddenly falling from the sky with a crate potion
crude geode
Unless you’re making this a suggestion, Macaroni, give it up.
mental violet
Anyway. Vote Yes on Prop Cursed Flaregun.
sinful steeple
Unvoted to vote again
mental violet
Also new name for Bumblebirb: Yarhim's Roc.
I mean it already is a Roc, a mythical bird of thunder.
sinful steeple
Even though Yharim threw it out lol
mental violet
But he did create it.
sinful steeple
So it would be nobody's Roc
sinful steeple
I thought Bumblebirbs created more Bumblebirbs
I think Blunderbird is the best name for it honestly
mental violet
In the lore, it was supposed to be a clone of the dragon, but was a failure.
mental violet
For real though. Thunderbird or Roc or something to allude to it being related to lightning.
mental violet
That doesn't exactly sound any less silly.
Also before I mentioned a Wulfrum mini-boss and I had an idea for it.
A Wulfrum Dill Platform.
It could spawn in the other 2/3rds of the world and summon drones and slimes on mass to defend itself.
When it's destroyed it could drop some ore and bars.
tired haven
@ashen warren read suggestion Don't document in pins, specifically page 3
I just want to be sure you will spot the reason why the recent suggestion isn't valid
mental violet
Also can I make a suggestion for the Rock to do something if it's pointless and silly? Like burst a buff of confetti when activated?
tired haven
Not to be too harsh, but if it's pointless and silly, then why spend development on it?
Usually that only works if it's extremely beneficial to the humor of the item
sinful steeple
A wulfrum dill platform? A big wulfrum pickle?
mental violet
Yeah that's fair.
sinful steeple
I think a wulfrum golem that is like a wulfrum knight with a football helmet and a three barrelled minigun embedded in its chest would be cool but that is more specific than my scoliosis diagnosis and I have the foresight to know that's a don't
tired haven
mental violet
I just thought it would be a good way to not need to program new AI and give players in the early game a good chunk of resources.
gray nebula
what
mental violet
Oh? There are immobile minibosses in the game right now, like that slime one added for the Acid Rain.
gray nebula
yeah but it's active
mental violet
Well the drill could be as well, sending out an alarm to summon vast numbers of drones to it's aid.
Or perhaps firing lasers from where it's sitting.
hybrid fjord
Are we talking about a wulfrum miniboss?
Maybe something a bit more cartoonish
Like a slime piloting a wulfrum battle mech
gray nebula
wulfrum slimes 
hybrid fjord
Okay but like the slime is in a mech
Like those mech suits from Mega Man X
The punchy ones
south flint
About the "rename Bumblebirb" suggestion: my pick for the new name would be Bramblebirb. It sounds similar enough to the original, and is also related to the jungle ("brambles").
sinful steeple
I mean yeah but what do brambles have to do with a four eyed lightning dragon bird
south flint
I don't know, it just sounded jungle-y and fearsome enough to work
sinful steeple
Bramblebirb just sounds like what I'd call my theoretical pet bird if it collided with a cactus
south flint
hmm
still think it should have "birb" at the end as a homage to the original
and so it's not too different
digital saddle
i like bumblebirb
toxic kettle
just renaming it to "Bumblebird" already does the trick imo
as now it looks like an actual bird and keeping the "birb" meme just doesn't fit the sprite
civic pond
tbh what part of it looks "bumble" though
civic pond
sinful steeple
And also "the birds and the bees"
civic pond
i guess that still holds true
hollow shell
@tawny garden Why only magic?
quiet abyss
First off, why specifically just magic weapons?
hollow shell
Melee, Ranged, and Rogue can all home too
frail mantle
Also super dummies exist
tawny garden
Which melee weapons can home?
hollow shell
This doesn't really have to do with Super Dummies
radiant meadow
omega biome blade
hollow shell
also like a lot of them
hollow shell
Soul Edge is one, off the top of my head
radiant meadow
but yes, there are a ton
hollow shell
Terratomere
quiet abyss
Ranger with homing missiles and homing bullets.
hollow shell
Briny Baron
woeful ginkgo
Make ranger do the same thing as well because chloro/verium exists yeah
vocal grotto
Well, the problem I see with specific targeting is programmer pain
quiet abyss
^
vocal grotto
You'd have to rework a lot of things from the ground up
radiant meadow
vanilla IL editing
woeful ginkgo
Are hyperius bonus projectiles homing?
woeful ginkgo
that looks annoying to code
because I'm pretty sure phantasm's phantom arrows are also homing
terra split arrows combined with phantasm looks actually terrible to code
vocal grotto
Yes, IL Editing is fear
woeful ginkgo
Even worst with elemental quiver and vanq arrows
radiant meadow
changing calamity stuff wouldn't be too terrible
but changing vanilla stuff plainly isn't going to happen
woeful ginkgo
Is it even possible to make vortex beater's vortex projectiles being able to lock onto something
vocal grotto
You could in theory altar the AI of the vortex beater projectiles
radiant meadow
but nah
woeful ginkgo
Redcode moment?
vocal grotto
Well, if you want to altar the AIs
You have to completely override it with the original + whatever changes you want
lost agate
targeted homing sounds... quite strong
hollow shell
@ashen warren Crab gave you the funny indirect order but I'm just gonna say it
Suggesting something just for the sake of being a reference, and nothing else, is a Don't
woeful ginkgo
Not really, I can only see targeted homing being useful for events
lost agate
thats still removing a downside notheless
hollow shell
Yeah I approve of actually encouraging people to read the doc on their own
but they were already offline when you pinged em and they stayed offline for several hours
and I didn't want the sugg up anymore
ashen warren
Changing homing targeting manually just sounds like summoner right click in a nutshell tbh
tawny garden
Oh yeah, it sounds like it. Most likely it's completely different
hollow shell
That Bloom Slimes change could arguably be separated from the rest of the sugg
but I'm not sure
zealous ridge
yeah, they feel like... seperate things
but either way, i agree with both... kind of
idk actually about the first part of it
civic pond
If uelibloom spreads in return bloom slimes spawn only in the jungle(?) because thats how i see it
ashen warren
Not really
hollow shell
I do think it should be separated, yeah
ashen warren
Actually, lemmie delete that
hollow shell
People can agree with one and not the other
hollow shell
ono
tired haven
But yeah you should separate those unless they are required for each other (which they kinda aren't rn)
civic pond
just dont touch slimes at all tbh pls iirc
karmic stone
just how Chlorophyte Ore does
You see, Chloro has alot of time to grow, there's alot of stuff to do at that stage of the game so you can leave Chloro alone so that by the time you decide to go spelunk the jungle there are decently sized veins of it instead of going instantly and finding veins of 4-5 ores every minute
Uelibloom gens right after Provi dies, there's not much else to do after that besides prepping for the next bossfights (unless you killed all sentinels and Polly first but lol) and Uelibloom is an important part of gearing up by replacing Lunar Armor and getting other neat stuff, so usually it's the first thing people go do I think
So making genned veins smaller and making them grow sounds h to me
hollow shell
m, yeah I was thinking that as well
civic pond
Thats a good point too but isn't it also an ingredient in a lot of different things
hollow shell
Maybe if Uelibloom spawned when like
Golem or Plantera died
or maybe even Moon Lord if you wanna make it grow a lil faster
karmic stone
m
karmic stone
And became mineable post Provi
sinful steeple
Though maybe it'd require a pickaxe that Provi drops?
hollow shell
yeah I guess we could just flat restrict it
frail mantle
Then I feel like it’d be too similar to Chlorophyte
civic pond
whats wrong with that though
karmic stone
I mean
hollow shell
I guess it's better to be similar to something unique than to be bogstandard?