which world gen is
#suggestions-discussion
radiant meadow
cloud surge
Nerf Death Mode Necromancers
I keep dying to these guys the second they spawn because they have massive damage and have so much accuracy that its impossible to dodge them, as the bolt they shoot just appears on top of you instantly. Tuning down the accuracy would make it fair, and tuning down the damage would be nice since they take down a quarter of my health in one hit.
radiant meadow
second, involves new design and discussion among devs?
sulph world gen falls under that too
zealous ridge
what doesn't fall under discussion among devs?
radiant meadow
Nerf X because it kills Y in 30 seconds
zealous ridge
okay
sand umbra
I mean yeah
everything that isn't just the funny QoL fixes or "nerf XYZ because it takes .2 nanoseconds to mutilate LC" or "buff XYZ because it takes 5 years to scratch King Slime" is bound to induce discussion among devs
zealous ridge
i agree that the suggestion could be broadened out a bit
vocal wing
in fact, finding several bugs on release kinda stressed Dom out a bit that he went on break for a few days
@radiant meadow
Has anyone ever suggested for a test version of Calamity where new content is added for the public to test for bugs?
sand umbra
again, I think the biggest thing holding back these worldgen suggs we've seen a good few of involve the fact that writing worldgen is absolutely horrible
and there aren't really many ways to make it easier
hollow shell
That would be kinda hard to manage, I feel
zealous ridge
absolutely thomas
cosmic void
Okay so I guess breaking it down a whole lot to what I would like to see from the biome, I just kind of made it into a few 'building block' parts. Again, I understand it is NOT as simple as this, but hopefully it helps visualize things a bit
You have the ocean generating over the edge of the map, filling the area with water. You have the block of land defined as the Sulphurous Sea replacing Dirt and Stone with Sulphurous Sand and Sulphurous Sandstone. And then you have the drop-off leading towards the Abyss with underwater shelves and cliff faces
hollow shell
and also considering how much we care about spoilers and big update surprises, it wouldn't really work to have a public test version
(also are you gonna repost your sugg, White?)
vocal wing
Oh yeah sorry
zealous ridge
dakota, that works a bit better i think
the general shape is outlined, but the content could be made to be less specific
like, for instance
"over the passing updates, give some extra tweaks to sulphur sea generation"
i don't think that's... necessecarily disagreeable?
but, idk, feel free to counter lmao
cosmic void
I'm hoping so. Because the left feels like a more specific version of the right
unkempt bolt
Make Planty Mush only mineable by Pickaxe Axe+, and make it unable to be mined by bombs/dynamite:
Fathom Swarmer armor is very powerful when you are able to get it pre-mech, and the wiki claims that Planty Mush is indeed mineable by Pickaxe Axe, which leads me to believe it being able to be mined by mythril tier pickaxes is unintentional.
hollow shell
Yeah you could include both like that, as a visualizer for the general theme your talking about
You could include some of your points like the sand on top the sandstone and those underground sandstone spikes as more specific not-entirely-necessary changes
Maybe also the smoother terrain noise transitions
iunno
Also the first point is already true, Quanta..
I think
gray nebula
Fathom swarmer is getting tier shifted wegud
hollow shell
Oh, I guess Planty Mush's mining req got removed
radiant meadow
reminder to never use planty mush as a tier locking item
hollow shell
Maybe cuz you can fish it up pre-Mech?
sand umbra
you can fish up Planty Mush at any time
radiant meadow
also, something else I wanted to mention earlier
sand umbra
because it's the collective junk catch of the Sulf Sea
radiant meadow
about the world gen
a lot of the stuff is based on stuff hidden where 99.99% of player's won't see
like complaining about the rectangular bottom of the abyss
unless you use map reveal
and then point out all the flaws
zealous ridge
the suggestion isn't about that anyways though
sand umbra
~~also Fathom Swarmer is like sorta the HM Abyss armor set now maybe which means I can harass someone into making a second HM Abyss set summon hahaue
/s...?~~
hollow shell
But it does include smoothening out the bottom of the Sea's sandstone
@cosmic void You should edit that into your previous suggestion instead of posting a new suggestion
radiant meadow
I meant like this area
cosmic void
I can try, wasn't sure how to edit a second image into my prior post though
I'll try pasting the link and removing the second suggestion
radiant meadow
the only reason people would go down there into the circled areas is because of the incidental sword shrine
sand umbra
yes
zealous ridge
okay but what if there was a reason to go down there
i see your point either way, ben
and, yeah, it could come off as nitpicky
cosmic void
Got it all fixed up, thanks for bringing it to my attention
radiant meadow
then you're asking for too much.
zealous ridge
bruh
radiant meadow
although it already is kinda asking for too much
hollow shell
Aight
So your recent one can be deleted?
hollow shell
Aighty, cool
cosmic void
Thanks!
hollow shell
Thanks for listening to all the feedback
cosmic void
Sure thing
zealous ridge
sigh... i won't argue anymore, ben, i don't want to start something
but i hold my stance, for now
radiant meadow
I mean, I'm done arguing too.
zealous ridge
excellent
radiant meadow
but I still strongly disagree with the suggestion
zealous ridge
so we have reached an agreement
radiant meadow
and that isn't going to change
radiant meadow
I can't stop it from getting sent
zealous ridge
but hey, you can argue against it
civic pond
:)
zealous ridge
b o s s s uggestio n
hollow shell
@keen reef Boss suggestions aren't allowed
radiant meadow
keen reef
sory
hollow shell
Rules and "Don't"s in pins of #suggestions-voting
keen reef
ok
zealous ridge
stygian weaver moment
in any case, byeah ben, i agree to disagree
if the sugg gets sent, i won't tell you to vote a certain way, just don't smite me
cosmic void
Could the same sort of shape used to generate this be placed at the bottom of the Abyss, then? Something similar?
I know it's not the most graceful either, but it looks smoother than a square
radiant meadow
if I'll be honest, I have no idea how world gen works
civic pond
soon™️ possibly maybe
brave quest
bumblebirbpet
hollow shell
Reasoning isn't great but it's hard to come up with a reason to add a pet anyhow
hollow shell
s'fine
sand umbra
tbf, that's true of most vanity things
radiant meadow
just need to bribe someone to add more frames
sand umbra
but given you can't really make a combat reason for vanity things it ain't too important 
radiant meadow
it's upside down because I'm not the most graceful with rotation code
hollow shell
fliip
sand umbra
because the underlying/implied reason amounts to the fact that Calamity lacks an appreciable amount of vanity content despite the immense expanse of its content as of late in particular
civic pond
i cant even tell what that is :br:
radiant meadow
at one point, I got it to consistently shoot upside down so I said fuck it and flipped it in photoshop
hollow shell
Dynamo Stem Cells
hexed lagoon
Has anyone suggested that they should make the depth light level a configurable thing
hollow shell
Accessory that shoots those when you shoot
Suggesting configs for Death Mode features is a Don't
hexed lagoon
Oh its dmode only?
hollow shell
Yes
hexed lagoon
Didnt know lol ok
radiant meadow
if it gets enough stars, I could bribe Iban to add more frames and make an item/buff
vocal wing
Suggesting configs for Death Mode features is a Don't
@hollow shell
Rip, the light level always makes my eyes want to go commit die
hollow shell
There are plenty of ways to counter it
hexed lagoon
Night owl and shine potion
chrome holly
Okay, small question, has a changelog page for the wiki ever been suggested?
frail mantle
yes
hollow shell
That will unfortunately never happen due to Calamity's poorly documented early history
vocal wing
Thanks Rover
hollow shell
np
frail mantle
@ YuH
radiant meadow
I mean, I'm fine with it because it's one less thing to remember when wiki editing
frail mantle
hollow shell
I would definitely like if we could have version history pages and sections
and I even contemplated doing it all myself a few times
At this point though that may be way more effort than it's worth
frail mantle
i know YuH started a changelog doc with all the versions he has but i have no clue how far he got
chrome holly
I mean, better late than never, right?
hollow shell
Not really
Having something incomplete on the wiki is
not good
just having the history stop at some point
for really no reason
sand umbra
an unfortunate truth of Calamity's earlier days
hollow shell
cuz #changelogs began at some random update between Cal 1.2 and Cal 1.3
sand umbra
it'd take a lot of work to actually iron out which changes happened before that point
and on which updates specifically
hollow shell
(Again, I'm personally in support of it and I think it'd be okay if we just generalized anything we didn't know the past history of to "Pre-1.2.5.7" or whatever
but the consensus was that's a bad idea.. I guess)
vocal wing
(honestly that'd be fine if you ask me)
Me too
chrome holly
I'd be pro-"whatever let's just do a pre-1.2.5.7" too
but I mean, if it's too much work then it's too much work
cosmic void
A Changelog would be really nice, even if the entire history isn't there
Heck, if a changelog started NOW I wouldn't mind it
hollow shell
Part of the problem is that it'd just be an unbelievable undertaking (if we were to document from 1.2.5.7.fuck onwards)
and still a decently huge undertaking if we were to start now
Because it involves editing adding a new section to literally every page on the wiki
sand umbra
(it'd also perhaps ease the strain of making 100% changelogs)
vocal wing
Why if I get hit when adrenaline is fully charged it gets reset to zero?
When did it the old way get charged and why?
sand umbra
(and would additionally simplify the process of distributing them because hey, here they are on the wiki!)
hollow shell
It got changed when Adrenaline Burn-Out was removed
When you got hit just then, while the bar was full, you took half damage from the attack
as compensation
sand umbra
yeah Adrenaline got a lot of changes
civic pond
i was wondering why my full adren died so much
upbeat scroll
Didn't Rage go away while using if you got hit?
sand umbra
it's very much the nohit bar now even when full, although you're given an alternate potential reward for nohitting that long in the form of reduced damage from your next hit
chrome holly
I mean, it's a lot of work for sure
civic pond
rage's whole mechanic is getting hit
chrome holly
but the more we wait, the more work it is
civic pond
unless
hollow shell
That still happens Aqua and suggs have been made to get that removed
cuz it doesn't make sense and it's annoying
upbeat scroll
Oh it STILL happens?
sand umbra
no
hollow shell
Did they finally remove it
sand umbra
that got removed along with the Adrenaline changes
upbeat scroll
Oh thank god, I was about to say that I never noticed it-
hollow shell
Oh thank god I'm just forgetful
sand umbra
Rage is actually worth a flying fuck now
sleek wadi
Rage still kinda sucks but it sucks less now that true melee, the class it seems to be built for, can actually use it.
sand umbra
Rage buff is moreso a buff to True Melee than anything else
upbeat scroll
Rage tbh should get a buff or something, as it is useless unless you have the Heart of Darkness
sand umbra
(which makes me even more conflicted on the treatment of true melee, but that's a topic for another time and sugg)
upbeat scroll
or using True Melee*
sleek wadi
Kinda wish it was reworked to being the extended-combat counterpart to Adrenaline but whatever.
upbeat scroll
Tbh, if Heart of Darkness was a permanent Consumable and was slightly nerfed (less Rage overtime and rage getting halved after the Absolute Rage buff goes away), then it would be a completely welcome change honestly
chrome holly
Okay, so to finish what I was suggesting, do I put it in suggestion anyway although there's a good chance it will never be done or do I not even bother?
upbeat scroll
Then Rage would have an actual purpose rather then True Melee or equipping Heart of Darkness until it's full then taking it off
civic pond
i just forgot draedons heart existed as a whole
I rarely see it used at all
radiant meadow
draedon's heart is a pretty good acc tbh
upbeat scroll
I have only once actually used Rage in my entire Pre-hardmode portion of an actual run, and that was when I was farming a boss for money
sand umbra
tbf, SuperHot take of the day:
Rage would be better if true melee wasn't treated as another funny subclass but rather what melee is supposed to be
because at a fundamental level "true melee" is what melee was supposed to be to begin with, before all these funny projectile memes
thank you for coming to my talk
sleek wadi
Can we get a buff to True Melee hits rage generation, its like 1 rage point per true melee hit atm which is kinda insulting. Is it supposed to be 1% of the true melee hit's damage or?
upbeat scroll
ted talk
hearty yew
rage would be better if true melee didn't have a random interaction with it and instead all of its interactions were all-class
sand umbra
that too
upbeat scroll
Yeah
civic pond
I always thought rage and adren always contradicted eachother
civic pond
ark
holds down v
sand umbra
they do, doge
Adren is the consistently-useful one and the one that I hate balancing against
upbeat scroll
Nohit DAD mode True Melee SCAL is where rage is completely useless 
civic pond
i mean you can build rage prior to the fight right
hearty yew
Getting hit for X% of your max health gives you X% rage.
When rage reaches 100%, you can press K to hulk out, getting a damage boost. The damage boost doesn't go away when you take damage, in fact taking damage still gives you rage like normal.
Continuously dealing damage while Rage is active fuels your fury, earning you Rage Points while you burn them. Being willing to facetank with balls to the wall aggression is rewarded with a longer DPS spike, where the pain of every hit turns into more wrath.
While not in combat for more than 4 seconds, Rage decays to zero. Heart of Darkness stops this effect, and instead makes Rage naturally build over time.
sand umbra
civic pond
upbeat scroll
That makes it genuinely useful
hearty yew
Rage currently is not a meaningful factor in balance
It hasn't been for years
That's how irrelevant it is
Adrenaline has been a meaningful factor in balance for years
Because it's illegal in internal DPS tests, they are all done ripperless
sand umbra
testing ripperless is really just testing Adrenaline-less
radiant meadow
if you want to rework rage like that
hearty yew
ye
radiant meadow
feel free ig
hearty yew
and yes, ben, I do
That's my current working design
I haven't made any changes in that direction
But I want to hear feedback
If anyone's got any
I want rage to feel useful
hollow shell
This does sound very cool and useful, and distinct from Adren
sand umbra
I very much appreciate this concept
hearty yew
Adrenaline is about not getting hit. Rage is about getting hit.
hollow shell
I'm wondering how HoD would work with this system?
hearty yew
Did you read what I said?
hollow shell
You kinda seem to imply that you'd be hulked out forever
hearty yew
"Rage dissipates while not in combat, unless you have HoD equipped"
then it grows slowly like HoD currently does
sand umbra
...also, idle thought:
hearty yew
Rage boosters would do what they currently do, which is boost the maximum damage boost of rage
sleek wadi
Fits thematically, still retains the original spirit of current rage, still favors true melee like it should, is actually relevant, and gives a boost to tanky builds. I like it.
hollow shell
Oh, you just meant Rage in general
I thought you meant Rage fading after you have it activated
nvm
hearty yew
also yes, it's supposed to give a boost to tanky builds
civic pond
@ add
sand umbra
would anyone kill me if I were to sugg for giving Stress Pills some sort of special interaction with Adrenaline
upbeat scroll
May I make a suggestion to your suggestion about a suggestion? Heart of Darkness should be a consumable perma upgrade, like how the Revengeance Rage/Adrenaline buffs are, considering how rare it is and by the time you get it you will likely be done with Wall of Flesh, entering Hardmode.
sand umbra
(and potentially nerfing Adrenaline again in the process)
radiant meadow
I'd say no
hearty yew
stress pills is the phm stat stick
radiant meadow
but draedon's heart would inherit this function
radiant meadow
laud has horror immunity though
hearty yew
HoD is the "sit on this until DH" item
sand umbra
Laudanum gives Horror immune tho
radiant meadow
so it's not bad
sand umbra
Stress Pills are just literally funny stat stick
radiant meadow
stress pills giving something adren related would be interesting
upbeat scroll
or you could also make HoD an Hardmode exclusive
sand umbra
(would also be a nice parallel to HoD giving a special Rage interaction)
radiant meadow
maybe shave off the timer to charge
hearty yew
getting hit loses only 50% of current adrenaline instead of all of it
radiant meadow
laud can be changed to no longer give immunity
hearty yew
winky face
sand umbra
ooo, that works
radiant meadow
but horror gives buffs
hearty yew
that's stress pills' unique effect
radiant meadow
instead of negative effects
hollow shell
Yeah that'd be sick
hearty yew
lots of things inflict horror in rev+ so that actually has quite a bit of use
lots of bosses especially
hollow shell
And make it so Laud doesn't jsut give a bunch of passive stat boosts
because that's.. boring
radiant meadow
I wouldn't mind doing these changes to laud and stress pills, right now
hearty yew
i wouldn't either
hollow shell
I'd be very happy if that happened
upbeat scroll
It's just a joke item till it can be upgraded post-moonlord
So yeah, this is def neat
sand umbra
radiant meadow
rage rework is a little too much for me to handle
hearty yew
also to reinforce that rage is for tank builds
the "X% health --> X% rage" would be "X% health incoming damage before mitigation"
this also means that being overkilled and revived by god slayer / perma concoction / etc. gives you rage for the full hit, not just whatever it took to finish you off
heavy cedar
Just a random lurker chiming in: that rage rework idea of yours seems awesome
radiant meadow
mm, tldr
stress pills makes a hit make you lose 50% of your adren rather than 100%
laud stat boosts are moved to the horror debuff for some cool you're actually not immune interaction
ya?
hearty yew
and heart of darkness gets a bit of changes with rage rework
upbeat scroll
Or "(X Health x 0.5Max HP) = X Rage"
hearty yew
yeah that sounds good
hollow shell
Oh yeah that Stress Pills change is way more significant than what I was thinkin
and cool too
radiant meadow
obviously, the stat boosts would be shafted or lessened on stress pills
upbeat scroll
So the more HP you got the more Rage you get, for t a n k s
hearty yew
i would shaft them down to like
2 defense + 5% movement speed
and that's it
no damage at all
radiant meadow
ye
upbeat scroll
The Movement Speed isn't even noticable when you get the Hermes boots
hollow shell
Yeah Laudanum historically is a healing potion, basically
sand umbra
an unfortunate truth of how Terraria's movement speed variables work
hearty yew
ok so it should have some interaction with horror and life regen
thomas: you laugh but
i also have planned changes for MS reforges
upbeat scroll
It should just increase Movement speed drastically, so there is faster acceleration instead of no boost at all
hollow shell
Current effects are "Boosts your damage by 6%, defense by 6, and max movement speed and acceleration by 5%"
Could replace one of those with life regen
hearty yew
increasing max move speed cap, including boots, wings, fall speed, everything
cut the damage and defense, replace with +1 life regen at all times, tripled to +3 life regen during horror
upbeat scroll
Making stun locks easier to get out of i guess
hearty yew
and the movement speed boost is also massively increased during horror
basically like panic necklace
but it stacks w/ panic necklace if you also have that
hollow shell
Hm
upbeat scroll
Giant Shell
sand umbra
i also have planned changes for MS reforges
increasing max move speed cap, including boots, wings, fall speed, everything
hollow shell
Wondering if too similar to Panic Necklace but that should be good anyway
hearty yew
I want them to be viable alternatives to warding for the defensive minded person
hollow shell
cuz it also indirectly provides Horror immunity, which is good
upbeat scroll
This would contrast Rage and Adrenaline even more
sand umbra
I love so many things about this
heavy cedar
^
upbeat scroll
"dodge better" and "tank better" are just the ideals for adrenaline and rage
zealous ridge
oh my gosh this all sounds amazing
upbeat scroll
Can we get a TLDR for so far?
hollow shell
Don't worry it'll all be in #changelogs
upbeat scroll
neat
hollow shell
You can
zealous ridge
alright, let me write it up
upbeat scroll
Wouldn't this also mean that DH gets changed too?
zealous ridge
perhaps
upbeat scroll
To be the All Around for the 3 accessories
hearty yew
Yeah
upbeat scroll
But dang why is it so expensive to craft you can get the accessories pre-EoC but upgrade them what, post-DoG?
hearty yew
@upbeat scroll TL;DR
- stress pills become an adrenaline focused acc
- laudanum becomes a horror focused acc
- rage gets fully reworked so it's about turning pain into revenge (putting the "revenge" in revengeance). it rewards tanky builds and being willing to take hits as an opposite to how adrenaline rewards dodging perfectly
- heart of darkness works a little bit differently
- DH still combines all 3 into the ultra ripper accessory
upbeat scroll
Neat
heavy cedar
sounds pretty neat
gusty geode
If we do get a birb pet
Can we get an RIV of it that's modeled after the previous sprite
hollow shell
pet RIV?
hollow shell
That sounds pretty epic ngl
upbeat scroll
riv pet?
sand umbra
I think this is the best day I've had in sugma disc in a long while
hollow shell
pff
upbeat scroll
lol
Yeah a RIV PET of the old Bumblebirb sprite would be neat
Because I'm gonna miss that cute thing :<
insert eggman quote from sa2 fandub here
civic pond
yeeeeees.
pulsar jay
riv?
frail mantle
rare item variant
pulsar jay
ah
zealous ridge
Change how the sun spirit staff works, move it to a later point in progression, or change the Frost Blossom staff to be more distinct from Sun spirit.
All three of these points are solution to the same problem: Frost blossom and Sun spirit are very, very similar. They have a very similar beam attack, both float over your head, and have exactly the same damage value, however frost blossom can be considered better due to it's explosion effect. This makes both these weapons somewhat boring, and causes the sun spirit staff to be obsolete.
Any of the above solutions could make both these weapons fill their own niche, rather than stepping on each other's toes due to their similarities.
how dis look
hollow shell
That seems fine
upbeat scroll
I mean, Frostburn > Fire
zealous ridge
they both don't inflict debuffs
upbeat scroll
So it only makes sense for the Fire variant to be weaker
They are based off of the element overall
zealous ridge
but like theyre basically the same weapon
pulsar jay
we need to eventually combine that
radiant meadow
they won't be combined
pulsar jay
the 2nd exo weapon could've been an elemental spirit
hollow shell
not Sun Spirit
radiant meadow
not those two
lost agate
RIV pet
What the hell is the og one
hollow shell
Cinder Blossom
lost agate
ah
hollow shell
oh lol I wasn't answering you Shucks
hollow shell
it was a theoretical birb pet
the one in #suggestions-voting right now
the RIV would also be a birb pet but it'd be classic bumblebirb
lost agate
ah well thats like one step too soon lmao
upbeat scroll
And also this is proven many ways in vanilla:
Frost Armor > Molten Armor
Frostburn Debuff > On Fire Debuff
Flower of Frost > Flower of Fire (I think that's the exact name)
Frostburn Arrows > Fire Arrows
So it would only make sense for the Frost Blossom to be better in some way.
zealous ridge
okay
hollow shell
Two of the four examples you mentioned are later in the game
Frostburn is also mostly HM-exclusive
with the exception of the arrow
radiant meadow
frostburn arrows are just lol
hollow shell
(in vanilla)
upbeat scroll
Oh yeah
radiant meadow
any suggestions to spice up sun spirit then?
upbeat scroll
The only real examples of them being better at the same point in progression would be the Arrows.
radiant meadow
mr. sun spirit would probably need a custom projectile
upbeat scroll
Isn't it through walls?
sand umbra
...mfw only 4 things in vanilla induce Frostburn
radiant meadow
zealous ridge
sun spirit could shoot beams from higher up and inflict a quick burn debuff
heck, it could shoot beams from the sky on to enemies
radiant meadow
so like they strike from the sky?
zealous ridge
yeah, its a sun spirit anyways
sand umbra
but is it an angry sun spirit
zealous ridge
sun god could be changed too, i guess
radiant meadow
sun god should reflect these changes too
upbeat scroll
Maybe the Sun Spirit could be weaker but shoot through walls, and the Frost Blossom could be stronger yet not shoot through walls.
hollow shell
Or the other way around
zealous ridge
sirius and saros possession could also be played around with a bit to reflect that
hollow shell
Sun Spirit could have noticably better damage but its sky-beams don't go through tiles, making it only useful above-ground :P
zealous ridge
an easier solution would be changing frost blossom to be more interesting
upbeat scroll
^
radiant meadow
sirius and saros were more annoying to balance
upbeat scroll
And make them have a chance to inflict their respective debuffs too-
zealous ridge
then they can stay as they are
radiant meadow
okay but Saros I blame on Dom
sand umbra
Sirius and Saros exist at tiers that are inherently more annoying to balance
radiant meadow
for flat damage 
sand umbra
a
zealous ridge
upbeat scroll
Also there could be upgrades to the Frost Blossom Staff too, just because "oh hey it's a different variant but useless endgame- OH, just after a boss pretty much"
radiant meadow
there are already plans for upgrades
upbeat scroll
Oh then neat
radiant meadow
I'm just too lazy to code
lost agate
Everything gets upgrades: the mod
upbeat scroll
also where's the sulphurous upgrade to the aquashard shotgun hUH
sand umbra
Calamity is already everything gets upgrades: the mod
freakin' Boomstick and Diamond Staff never needed upgrades but here we are
upbeat scroll
^
radiant meadow
I always forget those are reqs for those two weapons
upbeat scroll
Literally I feel like the Miasma is THE ANTIDESTROYER WEAPON
radiant meadow
do they really need those in their recipe?
sand umbra
Aquamarine Staff is a good meme
upbeat scroll
^
sand umbra
it's the Sunken Sea mage wep but lol you need this already obscenely powerful staff to make it
radiant meadow
it just makes them needlessly harder to obtain in the set
sand umbra
and it is as such even more obscenely powerful than the staff used to make it
upbeat scroll
It's just so good for it's stage in the game
lost agate
Does a staff need another staff of a rare gem when the only separation is a grenade-alergic worm?
No. Probably not.
upbeat scroll
But let's do it anyways
sand umbra
similar reasoning for Boomstick into Aquashard
those two could probably be nixed from their respective recipes
pulsar jay
aquamarine staff is weird
radiant meadow
does it need it?
sleek wadi
Make Aquamarine require Amephyst Staff to craft, fixed 
sand umbra
Diamond Staff is like dummy thicc due to taking 15 diamonds and Aquamarine is thus even more dummy thicc
Boomstack is horrible to get because FUCK the Jungle pre-boss
lost agate
Imagine findind enough diamonds
pulsar jay
pre boss jungle
radiant meadow
mmm
upbeat scroll
Literally I only found enough diamonds bECAUSE OF PLANETOIDS PLEASe ADD MORE-
pulsar jay
why would they think of making summoner go to the jungle pre boss
for a staff meant to fight..
ds
upbeat scroll
summoner?
sand umbra
also people keep yelling at me about a Belladonna Spirit Staff buff but I literally haven't tested the weapon yet myself so I can't confirm or deny it being due for a buff
although that may change today
maybe.
lost agate
thats a different thing :echhh:
radiant meadow
I mean
pulsar jay
i mean
radiant meadow
I heard that belladonna were aggressive ai bitches
pulsar jay
it should be on tier with other jungle weapons
radiant meadow
so
upbeat scroll
Also I've used the Aquashard and it's great
sand umbra
anywho that's a subject for another time and sugg
pulsar jay
it costs more materials than most jungle weapons actually
sand umbra
point here is that Aquashard and Aquamarine are needlessly tedious to obtain
radiant meadow
ye
lost agate
doesnt the flarestorm cannon or smth like that also need a boomboom
sand umbra
should I make a sugg for it or can I just yell at you or Dom to do it
Firestorm also takes Boomstick for reasons I cannot comprehend
lost agate
dont put materials of further tiers on early weapons cuz linearity is wack dammit
sand umbra
linearity stinks
upbeat scroll
Firestorm is utterly useless lmao
sand umbra
Jungle is like
best explored after defeating a few bosses
upbeat scroll
^ Post EoC/Crabulon
sand umbra
since early on you do not have the gear necessary to live for more than 5 seconds
upbeat scroll
I did but that's because I've played this game for oh god counting every version that's like 40k hours
lost agate
i only feel comfortable going there with demonite/crimtane
sand umbra
I'd actually argue somewhere around post-EoW/BoC because that's about the point where you're recommended to fight QB usually, yeah
exploration of Jungle usually comes coupled with a desire to wipe Queen Bee off the face of the planet
upbeat scroll
or for mages to make jungle armor^
sand umbra
that too
but even then, mage does not get sufficient gear for not eating the fat die until a good few bosses in
upbeat scroll
exploration of Jungle usually comes coupled with a desire to wipe Queen Bee off the face of the planet
Well you have the planetoids which is what is most usually preferred as you can have an actual open arena instead of an enclosed area that you have to manually mine out without dying from bees
and with the risk of killing the larvae while making the arena, with planetoids you can just go in, break it, hop out, and on to your arena
Death Mode queen bee is usually around when I fight Skeletron
In regards to bosses late in pre-hardmode, Slime God really needs to be buffed, it's wayyy too easy and can be killed with pre-Crabulon gear.
(2-4 minutes)
pulsar jay
qb really shouldn't enrage on the surface
why did you make planetoids in the sky to summon her
then punish the player for using them to summon her
wooden wedge
even if she is enraged it's not too difficult of a fight
it's much easier than underground because you have the freedom of the whole world compared to a super small hive
pulsar jay
the jungle has open space
wooden wedge
not a lot of it
upbeat scroll
^
Well you have the planetoids which is what is most usually preferred as you can have an actual open arena
wooden wedge
and by open space sure it has some
upbeat scroll
Enraged doesn't even make a difference really
It should be the same no matter what
wooden wedge
but not a whole lot
upbeat scroll
I prefer raged as it practices me for dealing with Destroyer's bullet hell in hardmode
and brimstone elemental
pulsar jay
so i assume it enrages to balance out having an open arena and not have it too easy, rather than to punish the player for surface fighting
upbeat scroll
I mean look at this, there is a larvae above my pre-existing arena used for slime god like wth, there def should be some balance here
I feel like enraged Queen Bee should either be removed or buffed, as it doesn't really make a difference, i practically no hit her in an open arena and fighting her underground i can't no hit
wooden wedge
to be fair no-hitting QB is just jumping some times and running in a direction
because she is a pre hm boss
upbeat scroll
EoC is a phm boss yet at that point of the game it's almost impossible to nohit
you will always get hit at least once because of the inconsistency of the dashes directions
but if you get better gear it's possible
wooden wedge
EoC is another pre hm walking sim
upbeat scroll
no?
wooden wedge
what dashes are you talking about
upbeat scroll
It's really not
wooden wedge
rev or expert?
wooden wedge
I do
upbeat scroll
This is majorly talking about those 3 modes
upbeat scroll
the Expert ones
wooden wedge
because there;s the vanilla expert ones and the rev dashes
yeah that's the walking sim part
sleek wadi
Expert dashes are hard-countered by Hermes boots, rev dashes are countered by just having good jumps
upbeat scroll
the Revengeance ones are easy to dodge, just jump, but the expert one is inconsistent and even with hermes or the angry dog mount you can be hit
sleek wadi
btw Frostspark is technically pre-EoC, so if Hermes isn't enough than Frostspark is certainly enough
upbeat scroll
Beating it's easy, no hitting it with gear usually fighting it normally with is almost impossible (hermes, double jump, other accessories)
lyric eagle
Has anyone suggested preventing the fire geysers in deathmode hell from spawning on top of blocks right above lava?
upbeat scroll
I think that's intentionally
wooden wedge
don't think so?
upbeat scroll
there to make hell more difficult
lyric eagle
lava geysers coming out of lava is acceptable
lava geysers coming out of ice blocks is upsetting
wooden wedge
probably send a screenshot to explain better
sleek wadi
Fire geysers out of lava is intentional, I'm not sure them going through blocks is. Might be a bug
lyric eagle
they're literally starting on blocks right above lava
sleek wadi
Right above lava, as no space in between the block and lava?
sleek wadi
Thats probably just due to how lava geysers spawn, not sure if that should be happening but for now put your bridge up much higher than where it is now so that it spawns where it should.
lyric eagle
ech. It's already been at this height since I started at the spawn point. I'll just deal with the geyser for now since they can't spawn when wof is alive I think
I wasn't planning on changing anything, but I was hoping future playthroughs wouldn't feature the bizarrity of fire geysers coming out of my ice blocks
sleek wadi
The geyser probably chooses where to spawn by picking some lava then choosing the nearest full block, however in your screen shot the nearest full block is blocked by ice so it just goes up one more.
lyric eagle
well I guess it's up to the devs if this one's a bug or a feature. I just wish there was an accessory that set the damage to less, since there's no way to predict them.
at least with lightning there are warnings
and sharknadoes are only by the ocean
lost agate
@upbeat scroll i nohit eoc, its definitely possible
in fact my rev nohit has me with a permanent chilled debuff and basically no arena
upbeat scroll
Huh, weird
hearty yew
maybe sun spirit staff should be a minion flamethrower!
upbeat scroll
Oh no
Not the first variant, maybe the 2nd, but not the first
that would be too good lol
sinful steeple
Sun spirit staff further in progression? It's already bad, it'd be even worse later game
Maybe frost blossom staff could require victory shards to make it harder to obtain?
wooden wedge
@tawny wasp reason?
hexed ore
Very blunt
tawny wasp
Would be cool with an eidolon wyrm summon or pet
wooden wedge
that's not a reason
toxic kettle
doesn't Calamity vanities add that
tawny wasp
Idk
wooden wedge
that too
pulsar jay
what if we took the mummy set or lamia set or both and turned them into early hardmode rogue sets
sinful steeple
No
sinful steeple
They're vanity sets, and very specific at that
Anyway early hardmode rogue sets aren't really necessary due to Cryogen being a total joke
small talon
I dont really see how that relates to frozen lasers being fucking annoying as hell
indigo fog
Calamity's Vanities does add an Eidolon Wyrm pet
toxic kettle
Removing Destroyer's frost lasers was suggested recently and it's almost at 120 stars
because they don't fit at all, thematically
"The air is getting colder around you" is Prime's quote
sinful steeple
Yeah
hollow shell
@tawny wasp That's a Don't actually.
Go download the Calamity Vanities mod, it has an Eidolon Wyrm pet.
toxic kettle
Can't wait for Prime to shoot frozen stuff at me 
upbeat scroll
If anything make PRIME have Frost Lasers
snow slate
I just suggest that each destroyer eye has a different color and depend of the colour the type of laser
small talon
I dont think they should be removed, but heavily nerfed. If you get hit by a frozen laser its usually guaranteed death on higher difficulties due to getting stunlocked unless you use a RoD so I'm all for a frozen laser nerf
sinful steeple
But Destroyer fires lasers based on health
small talon
Ice golems have the same problem
snow slate
But, the destroyer shoot a exaggerated of lasers
small talon
shittiest miniboss in the game
toxic kettle
Warmth potions exist
upbeat scroll
If you want to spice up the Destroyer, maybe make it so when you are touching the ground the Destroyer will speed at you, like how the Solar Pillar enemies hate when you fly,
hollow shell
You could include more reason for why your solution would be a good one, Avocado
edited into your sugg
upbeat scroll
Because it is a worm boss
snow slate
And if he freeze you and hit you with the head
toxic kettle
the thing is, Warmth potions remove any kind of threat the frost lasers pose
tawny wasp
@hollow shell do you need calamity for it? Cuz calamity wont load for me
snow slate
You are instantly death
toxic kettle
either you get absolutely destroyed by the frost lasers, or they barely hurt you
snow slate
@toxic kettle but in the first run you don't expect that
sinful steeple
Wdym it shoots "a exaggerated of lasers"
hollow shell
You technically don't, I think?
But I don't think you'll get much use out of it without using Cheat Sheet
snow slate
And it's going to be a unfair death
tawny wasp
Ok
toxic kettle
I took like 9 damage from a frost laser once, that's nothing in comparison to the 280 I took from Destroyer's head
sinful steeple
If frost lasers stay they should like inflict chilled, not glacial state
tawny wasp
Imagine a boss that has a chance to insta kill you if you got hit
sinful steeple
Stun mechanics do not belong in boss fights
toxic kettle
DoG head
tawny wasp
Like 10%chance
cinder spade
in death mode dog head is instakill
hollow shell
RNG insta-kills would be pure cancer and everybody would hate it
hollow shell
still what
tawny wasp
Nvm
hollow shell
aight
tawny wasp
I remember when you could only be hit 10 times by death mode scal
The hit cap or what its called
hollow shell
@elfin shadow Your message should only include one distinct suggestion in it
You can remove the bit about redesigning Yharon because suggesting resprites based on quality is a Don't
and Yharon does have a resprite in the works already
hollow shell
Making your sugg just be focused on changing the main menu's background is fine, if you provide some more reason behind it
tawny wasp
The yharon phase 2 theme is so good
elfin shadow
ready
hollow shell
Thanks
If you could add more reason for why Calamity menu background would be a good idea, that'd be nice
small talon
well, the butterflies shoot homing projectiles, they calamitaminis dont
digital saddle
entropys vigil is just extremely OP right now because of hallowed rune
summoner can reach around 20k dps on an appropriately sized target immediately after beating calamitas
alpine bay
the ranged projectiles don't home i believe, which is why they need an increase in my opinion
small talon
they do home unless they lost the ability to in the most recent update which I dont see why they would remove it
alpine bay
but maybe that its just that entropy'ss vigil is just really good
ashen warren
@digital saddle already fixed for the next update
hollow shell
^
radiant meadow
I swear to god
entropy's vigil and resurrection butterfly shouldn't exist
or maybe take up more minion slots
alpine bay
entropy's vigil def feels stronger than it should, i killed Astrum Aureus in about 10 seconds so I didn't really even need to dodge
civic pond
Entropy's vigil, more like bootleg time stop
hallow kraken
radiant meadow
if you're using hallowed rune, that's why
hallowed rune is bugged atm
and vigil exploits that bug
alpine bay
wait what's the bug
ashen warren
in multiplayer, make lore items drop in treasure bag; right now, only one drops
y/n
radiant meadow
it causes way more stars to drop than it should
unkempt bolt
entropy's vigil is very good against cultist even without hallowed rune
hollow shell
Lore items should be clientside currently, right?
unkempt bolt
was messing around with it earlier
ashen warren
right now only one lore item drops
ashen warren
no matter how many players fought
radiant meadow
drops should be clientside iirc
alpine bay
i thought it spawned a bunch of starts because of the flamethrower attack
hollow shell
It appears as one on each player's screen but can each player pick up their own one?
ashen warren
no
hollow shell
Like Treasure Bags drop one per each player, and each player can only see theirs
ashen warren
only one person gets it
hollow shell
Hmmm
cinder spade
sometimes one drops for each player, sometimes only one drops, and sometimes none drop at all
wooden wedge
Lore drops for each individual's though?
hollow shell
wait what the hell
Lore items totally have clientside drops
I'm reading it in the source right now
hollow shell
Can you name any lore items that you know for sure do not drop per each player?
hollow shell
Lemme check his
I was looking at Cryogen
ashen warren
it's just really buggy
sometimes none drop
sometimes all drop
sometimes 1 drops
hollow shell
Well after the first kill they don't drop ever again
but I'm sure you knew that
ashen warren
yea
wooden wedge
What version are you even on
hollow shell
Yeah King Slime is also configured to drop for each player
ashen warren
the latest
hollow shell
"latest" doesn't help
ashen warren
hmmm
hearty yew
Numbers please
wooden wedge
That isn't a version
hollow shell
Okay
hearty yew
Source code tells me all lore items drop per player.
hollow shell
Nah it's fine
hearty yew
I can definitely make lore come from bags on expert+.
hollow shell
I assume he downloaded the new version and just started a playthrough
hollow shell
(yes please)
ashen warren
insta die
hollow shell
(no joke I like that idea)
hearty yew
Then make an scal trophy suggestion
hollow shell
Request in #sprites_needed
hearty yew
Along with any other boss missing a trophy
Oh right, I can do that.
You're the suggestions boy
Give me a full list of bosses without trophies
That's the sort of thing I'd expect a wiki admin to know offhand
hearty yew
Epic. Thanks.
hollow shell
(arguably SCal's brothers but they don't count really)
(You could also argue that Siren and Levi should have separate trophies like Ret and Spaz)
radiant meadow
they don't need to drop trophies
siren and levi could get separate trophies
just need to bug the sprooters for anahita rework and shit
hearty yew
cal bros have trophies for the same reason santank has trophy
hollow shell
You could include these in the request:
The bases
https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/terraria_gamepedia/d/d5/Weapon_Rack.png?version=99890278032a7aad419a749492f2c809
hearty yew
e.g. for completeness, scal bros, gss, giant clam, nuclear terror etc. would probably have trophies
hollow shell
(Yes, they're the same as Weapon Rack)
hearty yew
but that's not important for right now
that's for completeness and polish
done, rover
hollow shell
(item version too)
indigo fog
those projectiles are slow as shit though
quiet flume
hollow shell
Polterghast also has ~200+ damage on all projectiles, outside Normal Mode
Providence does as well for the majority of her attacks
@silent linden
silent linden
Well idk maybe it's just cause i haven't gotten used to his attacks yet, but his shots also seem to have a LOT more homing than polterghast and providence
hollow shell
There is indeed a lot of homing with Old Duke
indigo fog
Yes they home but they won't catch up to you if you run away
silent linden
But I also have to account for old duke being smart
sinful steeple
I mean it's a post-ML boss, dealing a lot of damage is to be expected
ashen warren
^^
sinful steeple
And it's supposed to punish you for not being smart
ashen warren
also considering your defense and higher health
silent linden
I feel like you'd have to have a brain the size of a house to be smart enough to deal with all that
hollow shell
(He is meant to be fought immediately before DoG, putting him in the final 4 bosses of the mod)
hollow shell
I think you should just learn the fight a bit
Considering it is brand new, it's expected that everybody's gonna be flailing around a bit going into it
sinful steeple
I beat him, it felt like a very fair boss fight but it took a few tries because you really have to think while fighting him
hollow shell
No guide pages for him yet
silent linden
It just seems like you have to account for way too many things at once
hollow shell
It's to prepare you for Yharon
silent linden
i've killed yharon in past runs though XD
hollow shell
How long ago
hollow shell
Okay yeah the fight prolly hasn't changed much then
silent linden
I'm just not used to a boss charging at where you're going to be rather than where you are, you spend so much time getting used to bosses charging at your current location that it just seems mean
unkempt bolt
you can still bait old duke dodges, just requires a different approach
silent linden
how different
unkempt bolt
pretty different?
silent linden
like it seems like you'd have to stop moving right as he charges
which leaves you open to projectiles
unkempt bolt
could also change directions via a dash right as he charges
silent linden
tried that
silent linden
unless you mean something different from what i'm understanding
i'll have to try it again, but I don't have a freaking bloodworm!
unkempt bolt
you're moving one way, he charges, you dash another way
unkempt bolt
that could be your issue
hollow shell
You can kinda "dash down" if you use the Jellybean mount
which I know a lot of people use for Yharon
hollow shell
yeye
silent linden
i'll kill this boomer one way or another
hollow shell
There are already Boss Rush-exclusive changes
particularly to make bosses more agile
so they can keep up with a post-Yharon player
hollow shell
There are some unique boss AI changes too
like Providence being able to do the Crystal attack and Laser attack regardless of biome
solemn flame
A
subtle oracle
Plus impleminting new features even further beyond the ones we have will cause problems, and it will not be intuitive
hollow shell
(also any player who wasn't playing Death Mode will have to deal with all the Death AI changes)
(and any player who was playing Expert will have to deal with all the Revengeance AND Death AI changes)
silent linden
is it just me or does old duke make you unable to fly completely while at lower health
wooden wedge
wrong chat?
indigo fog
you can still fly
hollow shell
Are you talking in a Defiled Rune/Ravager P2/Icarus' Folly kind of way? Wing disabling?
Or like an area denial kind of way?
silent linden
I died because I was completely unable to jump or fly.
tired haven
It may or may not be due to the vortex
silent linden
well just before that happened my wing flight time ended abruptly
There was no vortex nearby
tired haven
Hmm, then nothing else could do so
There isn't any specific mechanic to kill flight time iirc
silent linden
I'm beginning to think my terraria is cursed... my friend says he sees random destroyer tails, deviantt kills herself randomly
civic pond
multiplayer
silent linden
yes i know multiplayer is janky
hollow shell
Yeah that's just how multiplayer be lol
hollow shell
Worm segments all over the place
silent linden
so it's just multiplayer
wooden wedge
the bane of functioning game design
silent linden
i'll have to let him know that
tired haven
Most likely
Could be as trivial as your friend being near vortex and the movement restriction coming to both because funny syncs
silent linden
i'll move to another chat now
hollow shell
aight
sinful steeple
Are you sure you don't have DR on? Sometimes I forget to turn it off
sinful steeple
Adrenaline nukes bosses, but rage needs a rework
radiant meadow
rage rework was talked about earlier
but the stress pills and laud reworks are done
toxic kettle
Have you heard of punctuation
silk scarab
@toxic kettle NO
toxic kettle
I can see
karmic stone
rage is rarely used unless you have the heart of darkness
h
pulsar jay
h
subtle oracle
Darkness pots from alch npc exist
karmic stone
Alch is alch
Clam is clam
Also is it ok for this last sugg to exist when
Or what happens
toxic kettle
How is your Discord that dark
hollow shell
Technically we don't have any rules or standards for posting similar suggestions to other recent suggestions
subtle oracle
Super dark mode
swift wadi
How did you get that screen mode?
wooden wedge
he's on mobile
ashen warren
I think u click dark theme like 10 times or smth
uncut hedge
no
ashen warren
Add that feature to ios god
hollow shell
now they gotta add a super light theme
hollow shell
ashen warren
hollow shell
heh
blends right in
Aight anyway
suggestions
I'm questioning Jevin Kames's sugg
because
Adrenaline is already pretty frickin significant
(and Rage may or may not be getting reworked already, starting today)
ancient crow
yeah was gonna say that
ashen warren
adrenaline does a lot actually
ancient crow
the bit he says about rage is exactly what ozzatron was talking about earlier
pulsar jay
if you click light theme 10 times like you do with dark, instead of creating super dark mode it turns on your flashlight
toxic kettle
And your screen turns completely white
tired haven
That is actually real, I enjoy
Aaanyway, mildly offtop now
civic pond
on mobile or pc
Also isn't sunken sea supposed to be just early game content or
sinful steeple
Post Polter?
tired haven
I listed sulphurous lol
sinful steeple
tired haven
Sunken sea is postDS and postWoF
civic pond
I mean i admit sunken could have more content..? but i really dont see a need for it
sinful steeple
There should be post-ML content there
tired haven
Agreed. But not sure about dev plans on that tbh
sinful steeple
At least I feel there should be
sleek wadi
If any biome are in need of content, I'd much rather we focus on Astral, Snow, and World Evils
sinful steeple
I mean snow, astral and evil all have bosses
radiant meadow
sunken sea doesn't have any real planned content afaik
acid rain was our focus for the time being
civic pond
Sunken sea is the chill mostly early game biome
radiant meadow
sunken sea definitely needs more imo
sinful steeple
Clams are a miniboss
deep mist
A sunken sea actual boss would be a cool addition
sleek wadi
They all have bosses, but thats it. World Evil vanishes after pre-HM and snow literally only has Cryogen. Astral is visited like, 3 times at varying points in HM.
toxic kettle
Sunken Sea was chill but then the Sea Serpents attacked
pulsar jay
world evil is literally the main focus of pre mech hm
civic pond
i think that was changed
sinful steeple
Snow has an important crafting material only obtained there
civic pond
eleum?
sinful steeple
World evil literally eats the world in hardmode
subtle oracle
sea serpents have way to much hp for a pre h mode enemy
pulsar jay
you need souls for literally everything
tired haven
it still amuses me how 3 out of 5 custom biomes in calamity are water related
Sunken (and astral) having postML content will make that stage of the game less of a bossrush, which could be really cool
sinful steeple
Sea serpents are hardmode
civic pond
sunken to post ML seems like a fat gap
as of now mollusk armor is the only hardmode thing it has i can think of
er
clam crusher
pulsar jay
speaking of which
sinful steeple
Also the entire sunken buff?
tired haven
Shellfish staff smh
pulsar jay
did they nerf that armor yet?
sleek wadi
Alright, then the world evils vanish right after start of HM. I honestly never stayed there for more than like, 10 minutes after gimping Perfs and King Slime 10 times.
sinful steeple
And the fishing items?
pulsar jay
use ks to farm souls right?
sleek wadi
Yeah
pulsar jay
thanks
sinful steeple
Yeah you need to fish in the sunken sea for the revivify potion
subtle oracle
ks is also good for gel farming, for your flamethrowers
sleek wadi
Revivify potion 
sinful steeple
Also Angler quests and other potion fish are caught there
So there is actual stuff that happens there if you fish
sinful steeple
Abyss boss has been confirmed to not happen
upbeat scroll
Sunken Sea needs more than just a mini-boss smh
sinful steeple
Would be too confined
sleek wadi
Abyss would be the perfect place to have a vertical WoF kind of fight, but abyss boss apparently isn't going to happen because devs either couldn't settle on a concept or whatever they did settle on just didn't work out.
digital saddle
Sunken sea boss would be worse
sinful steeple
What
digital saddle
In terms of "confined and awkward"
sinful steeple
Sunken sea is more open than the dungeon which has two bosses
upbeat scroll
oh yeah
sinful steeple
And I mean confined as in like there's loads of islands in your way
upbeat scroll
ceaseless void AND poltergheist
we need some sunken sea love man
great biome
great potential
but it just lacks the treatment
digital saddle
Also eidolon wyrm isn't even meant to be fought it's just the abyss version of dungeon guardian
indigo fog
@mental violet Boss suggestions aren't allowed so you can remove that part
mental violet
Gotcha.