just make dank creepers drop shadow scales 
#suggestions-discussion
agile cloud
^
hallow kraken
But can we make it so perf worms can’t drop blood samples?
hollow shell
Nah Iban cuz then you can farm em forever
Unless Hive Mind only spawns them in bursts based on its health
ashen warren
i have a question, Acid Rain event will have his own theme?
agile cloud
thats an ai rework though
ashen warren
just that
hollow shell
I wouldn't know
I always choose not Corruption 
hallow kraken
Probably
solid nimbus
Stuff like this is neat, but seems quite unnecessary, it isn't specific and adds content clutter imo, more stuff for the game to be balanced around and hurts you if you are not using it
hallow kraken
If it didn’t upon release then suggesting for a theme would be bad
unique vector
better suggestion
solid nimbus
I call for a snap
unique vector
make hive mind drop true shadow scales at health intervals
hollow shell
Having a bunch of unique potions is better than
not
unique vector
lets say after transitioning to phase 2 he drops like, i dunno, 5
worthy fiber
You aren't really punished for not using it
agile cloud
dropping on phase change works
digital saddle
crimson/corruption vanilla bosses drop their special materials before defeating them fully as well
hollow shell
No shit you're punished for not using it
The potions are buffs
digital saddle
thats probabyl why perforators also drop them
jaunty isle
i guess when he changes phase will work
worthy fiber
Well not punish like, game not playable punish
unique vector
@solid nimbus idk about you but thats not what content clutter means
radiant meadow
aren't the amounts that perfs drop them obscenely low?
agile cloud
consistency would be nice for hive mind
unique vector
if you argued that revify potions are kinda useless then that would fall under content clutter
unique vector
but you're arguing it just adds more to balance around when its an optional potion lol
hollow shell
afaik Revivify is the only way to get what is basically Separate DR in potion-form
agile cloud
its dr but not
unique vector
not only are you counterintuitive with your reasoning but i dont really think anything in the game is balanced around that potion
agile cloud
isnt the way revvify works is that it heals a % of damage taken?
so in theory if you take enough damage to die normally, the heal wont work?
radiant meadow
if you die, you die yes
agile cloud
i mean its not actual dr
it only reduces damage from attacks you wouldnt normally die to
small talon
thats kinda how dog is spose to work
frail mantle
^
small talon
his weak spots are his tail and head
agile cloud
good aim = melt
frail mantle
you're supposed to target his head and tail cause every other segment of his body takes lole damage
agile cloud
thats how it's meant to be
jaunty isle
yes he die easily because you hit his head
frail mantle
what weapons are you using
solid nimbus
True, I understand that these aren't necessary for the game to be playable, but it adds complexity to the game where it isn't completely necessary or fun, at least in my own humble opinion.
jaunty isle
you want him to charge with his body then? 
agile cloud
it prevents you from just having to aim in its general direction
hollow shell
inb4 Fargo's Souls
frail mantle
cause i'm pretty sure only shit like Halley+bloodsplosions/pre-nerf Reaper could shred it that fast, even with rippers
indigo fog
eidolic wail shreds it fast too
jaunty isle
yea
agile cloud
Venusian trident does too
sturdy pelican
acts like a worm and wiggles during his aggro
agile cloud
iirc thats what its called
sturdy pelican
and when he rams for 2 seconds he gets melted less
indigo fog
Eidolic Wail shreds it a lot faster than trident
jaunty isle
a lot of the mage wep melt him but idk if its faster than Eidolic Wail.
agile cloud
its not
frail mantle
eidolic wail requires you to use it well
agile cloud
trident doesnt
sturdy pelican
trident is hold left click when he’s aggro phase
jaunty isle
i mean you just aim at his head while like trident it got huge explosion and it linger
hollow shell
What equipment/weapons are you using, Chumm
Also what difficulty
(again, inb4 other mod gear
and inb4 Normal Mode)
wait nah he said Adren
agile cloud
but you hold left click for any weapon
sturdy pelican
normal mode
jk
reveangwnce mage
i forgot but i think it was the trident and something else
tarragon helps a bunch for mage
agile cloud
its immune to ichor right?
hollow shell
DoG is immune to ichor yeah
sturdy pelican
probably?????
solid nimbus
Last point; these potions would be cool, but once you have the essential meta buffs there are no room to use them, universal combinations are cool and solve this, but they feel like cheating as they are not vanilla, it gives you extra power that you would not usually be able to have.
frail mantle
what accessories
sturdy pelican
ok
i just followed the wiki sort of
also that’s a problem because i’m post SCal lol
but i’ll see what i can remember
hollow shell
(only thought to suggest this now? lol)
frail mantle
cause right now it sounds like you're using Fargo's Souls gear or something
agile cloud
...
hollow shell
Try some/any setup of pre-DoG gear and refight him
radiant meadow
it gives you extra power that you would not usually be able to have.
and that would create balancing issues
hollow shell
okie
agile cloud
it works fine for me
unkempt bolt
called it
solid nimbus
You got it 👍
radiant meadow
also, can we actually ban leggie suggestions?
frail mantle
if you were using Souls gear that'll be why
unkempt bolt
i thought they already were
agile cloud
i'd like it if they were banned
sturdy pelican
leggie?
agile cloud
legendaries
unkempt bolt
legendary
unkempt bolt
kek
sturdy pelican
hollow shell
I don't see too much reason to but we could
radiant meadow
the same reason for boss suggestions
it's basically already planned
well not exactly the same
but it is already planned more or less
agile cloud
but does that mean new classes are planned?
hollow shell
Are they
Is there a doc I'm forgetting
radiant meadow
actually yes I think
jaunty isle
Plus it has so many capitalized word 
agile cloud
all caps 
tepid root
Yea It Hurts To Read
jaunty isle
it almost became meme sugg
agile cloud
almost
jaunty isle
add leggies reason idk i just enjoy it ... okay then
sturdy pelican
lncrease the amount of luminite that moonlord drops.
Moonlord drops about 25 bars worth of Luminite ore. There are dozens of new craftable weapons post ml and they all require luminite. To get all of the weapons of one class and armor you have to kill moonlord almost a dozen times. You also have to do the lunar events multiple times to get the fragments required to make all the summons. You have to grind here so much for no real good reason.
- he drips more than 25 luminaire bars
- celestial sigil exists
???
agile cloud
luminite BARS
jaunty isle
you know some people don't like grinding him that long for alot of the essential stuff post moonlord
sturdy pelican
yeah but it’s not doing the events again
small talon
I do agree ML should at least drop enough luminite to make one set
hollow shell
He drops a maximum of 110 ore
It takes 4 ore to make a bar
That's about 27 bars maximum
jaunty isle
and you need lots of em
small talon
it takes 45 bars to make a set btw
jaunty isle
unless you want meld blobs i guess
sturdy pelican
ik but one of the arguments is “redo celestial towers”
agile cloud
its the ml himself thats the problem
small talon
so he should drop 180 luminite ore minimum imo
unreal viper
It still takes a while to kill moon lord.
agile cloud
rev ml takes 5 years
hollow shell
aight fair
@frosty dagger You should take Aureus and Deus into account with the fragment argument
You don't need to do the events to get fragments
sturdy pelican
laughs in post DoG
agile cloud
you can buy the sigil
unreal viper
Another solution would be making luminite spawn in the world after his defeat.
sturdy pelican
luminite spawning would be kinda eh after all the other ore
agile cloud
those were everywhere
sturdy pelican
on the planetoids maybe
agile cloud
oh god what did i just say
jaunty isle
i wanna say just make exodium craft to luminite ore but nevermind
lost agate
theres like a lot of ways to spawn ML already
hollow shell
Yeah 2
lost agate
and post ML stuff just kills him fast
agile cloud
fighting it is repetitive and unfun though
jaunty isle
since you make exodium with luminite iirc
lost agate
well thats farming for you
hollow shell
You do, Gladias
agile cloud
thats why i dupe it 
frosty dagger
Good point Rover I always forget about them, still is really grindy though
lost agate
i just feel like having a boss drop smth special then giving an alternate way to get that smth is kinda eh
hollow shell
Yeah
You should at least mention them though
frosty dagger
I did
jaunty isle
well DoG is grindy so does ML if it comes to their respective Bars
hollow shell
Thanks
jaunty isle
and you need bunch of em
lost agate
WoF is also grindy if youre planning on getting emblems
agile cloud
oh yeah
jaunty isle
well true
hollow shell
That's still in question, chumm
sturdy pelican
oh yeh a those
lost agate
other mod stuff H
agile cloud
unless your rogue
jaunty isle
fargo emblem swap 🙂
agile cloud
i skipped rogue emblem cause of that
hollow shell
[painful flashbacks]
agile cloud
lmao
sturdy pelican
rofl
sleek wadi
A way to convert emblems using Enchanted Metal when?
lost agate
Oh yeah, emblems also have the added randomness
lost agate
but luminite is an ensured drop
agile cloud
it is
lost agate
so H
sturdy pelican
but you’re duping
lost agate
Using a glitch as your argument
hollow shell
it was suggested a long while ago
lost agate
H
sleek wadi
I know, I was the one who made it IIRC. Has it been 6 months yet, I can probably throw it back in.
jaunty isle
hmm enchanted metal is cool but you need to defeat cryo first
hollow shell
It was over a year ago LOL
radiant meadow
I believe I buffed expert rogue emblem drop chance since then
sleek wadi
Hot damn. Yeah just give me a second I'm gonna rewrite that one.
hollow shell
aighty
ashen warren
Rouge Emblem needs a reesprite
hollow shell
(It's a lose-lose situation if we try to make it compatible with CTP)
jaunty isle
yeah it going to look weird to people that werent using the TP
hollow shell
(If we have it look like CTP's, it'll look out of place to people who don't use it.
If CTP makes all their emblems look like vanilla to match our Rogue, then the quality is worse.)
radiant meadow
you mean if CTP just removes their emblem sprites
hollow shell
yeah
sleek wadi
Allow players to convert 1 class emblem into another with Enchanted Metal
Class emblems are a key component to a lot of accessories and endgame ones usually ask for multiple emblems. Those same accessories also ask for specific emblems of which there is only a 25% chance to get each one. However class emblems drop from Wall of Flesh, a boss that takes a while to farm due to its summoning requirements. This can lead one to spending hours trying to farm one specific drop from one of the harder to farm bosses.
This is why I suggest that for a recipe that allows you to convert emblems as mostly a bad luck block. Now why Enchanted Metal specifically? Enchanted Metal is obtainable right after an early hardmode boss so that your specific class emblem doesn't get outdated. Enchanted Metal also doesn't have much use currently, only being used for what ends up being more expensive mech summons. It will also solve the issue that a costless conversion recipe would bring up, being free reforges.
Enchanted Metal ends up with more use and players will no longer run the risk of spending an hour and 30 voodoo dolls looking for one last Melee Emblem.
This seem to specific or is it fine?
jaunty isle
to me its seem good
hollow shell
That looks good
tired haven
Seems a tad specific with Enchanted Metal and not, say, Hallowed Bars or souls, but other than that goodie
hollow shell
Nah, he gives some good reasoning for using Enchanted Metal specifically
and I think that is the most fitting ingredient to use
tired haven
Yeah, that's also fair
jaunty isle
it gave Enchanted metal more use also
tired haven
(i do have my gripes with that being behind exactly 1 of 6 bosses instead of a group, but enchanted metal fits a lot more than other examples, indeed)
jaunty isle
my gripe is prob because enchanted metal locked behind cryo and seeing how Rev + cryo i think ill stick to WoF farm madness
hollow shell
I think that's an alright choice to be given
jaunty isle
yeah
hollow shell
You either fight the harder boss with slightly less equipment options to get an easy conversion
or you go through the effort of farming the easier boss so you can take on the harder boss a bit more prepared
tired haven
The emblem re-spec certainly should be later than the emblem itself, byeah
sleek wadi
I'd be down with it being after 1 hardmode boss but none of them share drop and I'd rather not create recipe clutter by making it crafted with souls. This suggestion already adds 4 recipes to a scroll wheel and a crafting area is already pushing the recipe borders by that point in the game, souls would create 12 if we can't make an Any Souls crafting requirement.
jaunty isle
yes i guess its a good tradeoff to pay
stone grove
Just a thought: enchanted metal could be made at the crystal ball, using an alloy of all 3 tiers of early hard mode metals. This would be kind of like how hallowed bars used to be made (at least back when I played mobile), and could lend more power to the kinda vanilla strategy of just breaking altars, exploring underground and mining at the start of HM
Then again, that would be before any boss
jaunty isle
then permafrost shop would be pointless then
sleek wadi
The trade off is intentional.
hollow shell
well that specific item of the shop would be
stone grove
Yeah it would
hollow shell
It's good that Permafrost has a more general utility item than a bunch of single-tier weapons
tired haven
Or would it? I'd rather buy these than mine ores constantly
stone grove
But just think if you could buy bars of life later in HM: you’d probably do that rather than farm, right? Same case here. Arcgmage just becomes more convenient once you’ve got the money
And the npc
sleek wadi
He already does have a worthwhile shop due to Delicious Meat. Not like well fed is particularly hard to get but having that source is nice.
tired haven
300 mana pots are also insane value deal
jaunty isle
some of the permafrost item list is crazy good
stone grove
Icicle memes 😁
bitter drift
is the wulfram drone still out classed by the slime staff in every way possible?
jaunty isle
i mean one do fly one doesnt idk about that
sleek wadi
Sugg looking a little unfinished there
hollow shell
@safe sail 5%*
Also RIVs are not affected by Defiled
bitter drift
does it matter when it can jump as high as the slime staff can?
safe sail
i said armageddon not defiled
bitter drift
and besides, what boss fly in pre EoC?
stone grove
Sometimes flying ain’t good, slime can get lots of damage quickly since it’s on the ground and can basically sit on top of enemies
safe sail
cultist does not benefit from armageddon at all
bitter drift
@stone grove isn't that because the slime can hit more targets quicker?
stone grove
That too lol
safe sail
slime can also take your damage too right
jaunty isle
yes
safe sail
if you have like 4 slimes on a target you will hit them less than the slimes
bitter drift
i think i have an idea on how to fix it and make the drone better wanna hear?
stone grove
Sure!
bitter drift
my idea is instead of a small projectile the drone will fire a rocket
the rocket does 3x the damage of the current drone and has a small AoF but it fire 2x slower
sleek wadi
Wouldn't it be simpler to just cause Armageddon to roll the boss drop table 6 times?
stone grove
^
bitter drift
so what do you think?
jaunty isle
hmm then people just going to use slime instead
bitter drift
why?
jaunty isle
unless the damage is crazy good and the drone can hit reliably i don't think it will better than slime
sleek wadi
Doesn't slime require going out of your way for a Pinky or hoping for one to drop compared to Wulfrum's like first 10 minutes crafting recipe?
sleek wadi
Makes sense then that Slime Staff is just better if more luck dependent.
bitter drift
so what about we add smart targeting, meaning the drone will aim before it shoot the rocket
or am i just getting it somewhere worst?
hollow shell
@safe sail I'd remove that bit about making Yharon's revive period shorter, because it's quite different from the rest of your suggestion (and somebody already suggested that last night)
jaunty isle
i mean if the drone ai is good then im fine
but if the drone fail to hit anything then it will be pointless
bitter drift
ya that is correct
jaunty isle
since it got slower fire rate
jaunty isle
hmm idk if its too specific tho
sleek wadi
I'm more so confused on why a slower, stronger drone would give it some advantage over slime.
Seems like a neat flavor thing but also seems like its going to defend me worse due to enemies getting time to reach me.
jaunty isle
yes also if it even able to hit the enemy to begin with
because current drone is able to atleast keep up with the enemies
bitter drift
great :) finally my wifi is back
any way @sleek wadi i think you forgot that it has some AoE as well making it hit more then one enemy at a time so you question should be, what staff is better for what place, with my design the slime will be better for caves and being surrounded by ground enemies (like how it is now) while the drone can do good job against bosses, single enemies, flying enemies and enemies who are packed together
radiant meadow
why are you farming for thorn blossom?
safe sail
fargo
sand umbra
is Thorn Blossom even worth the actual shitfest it takes to get it
safe sail
fargo
sand umbra
Xeroc Enchantment doesn't count
radiant meadow
that's not really an excuse
jaunty isle
yeah
sand umbra
lemme rephrase:
is Thorn Blossom even worth the actual shitfest it takes to get it on its own merit
safe sail
well i still think it would be nice if getting a nohit on lc actually had a reward
radiant meadow
I'm not going to bump up thorn blossom drop rate so you can make a dumb enchantment
bitter drift
jeez you really sparked a debate here xD
safe sail
because it doesnt
hollow shell
Yeah we don't balance things around other mods or
do things to compensate for mods like Fargo's
safe sail
then again without enchantments are any of the rare variants really worth it?
thats fair
sleek wadi
Semi related to this, have you tried making armageddon go through a boss' drop table 6 times instead of 6 bags for the bosses that don't have them or did that cause things to break?
radiant meadow
you're not intended to farm for them
safe sail
ah
radiant meadow
they're intended to spice up a run if you happen to get them
but they're by no means necessary
jaunty isle
werent that is the purpose of Rare variant it just different version of set wep ??
sand umbra
Fargo's just packs all the grind humanly possible into each enchantment
why else would Reaver alone take like 5 RIVs 
sleek wadi
Also yes some of the RIVs are worth farming for, Hide of Astrum Deus lets true melee reach an absurd 170k DPS without adrenaline against Yharon.
sand umbra
a good few of the most worthwhile RIVs, amusingly, are not weapons at all
they're accessories
jaunty isle
some do amazing thing yes
sleek wadi
Eye of Magnus is also pretty hot ngl
safe sail
yes
safe sail
norfleet too
sand umbra
Eye of Magnus is hella nice for what it is
(bonus points: thank you to whoever made it a 10% drop rather than the funny 1% drop it would be by normal rules, because Rune Wizards SOCK to farm)
bitter drift
the reaper, would like to have a chat with you
unreal viper
Eye of Magnus eliminates the need for mana potions in early hardmode.
pulsar jay
summons really shouldn't be mixed up with the other buffa
sand umbra
The Reaper socks
safe sail
oh god the rreaper eatr4e5t6yjhuik'
pulsar jay
nothing like stocking up on a bunch of potions only for all of your summons to disappear and then you die
sand umbra
Valedictatorship genuinely does better for most conventional purposes against the one entity you're gonna feasibly use it against, iirc
distant gyro
Thorn Blossom's god power is balanced around its rarity
bitter drift
any way is this conversation about RIVs and legendary weapons being trash?
bitter drift
agreed but let's be honest
jaunty isle
some is meh but there are some is amazing to have
bitter drift
most of this talk was about raping those type of weapons
jaunty isle
no hit i guess
distant gyro
Take: A lot of RIVs are only ""trash"" because your perception has shifted from farming for them for so long
If you happen to get them first try you'll most likely stick with it
pulsar jay
I haven't farmed any RVs except for GLoO
jaunty isle
i mean most of my RIV is usually pretty fast to get for some odd reason
jaunty isle
maybe just my luck on that farming session
bitter drift
i got most of my RIVs by luck xD
me: goes into hard mode
blood moon: so you have chosen death
pulsar jay
i got the bee first mimic on my mage pt
sand umbra
Guidelight is wacky
pulsar jay
it was lame and i had better accessiories to be using
unreal viper
Hey Hadari, I like your idea for a suggestion. I would add more reasoning in your actual suggestion, but I think you've got a good case.
pulsar jay
that's really all the reason you need
the reason summons shouldn't be grouped with regular buffs is so they don't just vanish mid combat
simple
bitter drift
ok, i want to continue working my my rework suggestion to the wulfram drones
unreal viper
What's the basic idea?
sand umbra
so like
Guidelight
it's an RIV of Cosmilamp except it's fantastically different from the item it's supposedly an RIV of, being a sentry as opposed to the Cosmilamp minion
jaunty isle
yeah it does suck that sometime my cosmic worm summon kept disappearing because buff limit when fighting yharon
sand umbra
which kinda makes it really strange and actually makes you think "it's not even that good, sentries stink this late in the game"
except then it's really good and is well worth the effort despite it being very different from the base item and being a sentry
pulsar jay
guidelight is just that good of a sentry
jaunty isle
then you realize how damn good the sentries was
pulsar jay
take hive pog for exalple
sleek wadi
Why is Guidelight a RIV when it so disconnect from the base item aside from being a lamp?
pulsar jay
take away it's flaw
it can't fly
double it's damage
no fucking quadruple it's dumage
make it a new sentry
what did you think was going to happen
of course it's a godly sentry
sand umbra
things like Hive 
and Guidelight are good because they embrace the fact that they are stationary entities
and they go ham with this concept, often spawning many additional entities or projectiles to aid the player
jaunty isle
and just lingers till they detect enemies nearby then proceed to melt them
pulsar jay
mhm
jaunty isle
yeah Sentry logic
pulsar jay
lifesaver in yharon btw
bitter drift
@unreal viper the rework i suggested was the drone will fire a rocket or missile that does 3 times the damage of the current staff but fires 2x slower
the rocket also has a small AoE and as @jaunty isle point out and rightly so, the drone will smart target meaning it will aim before it shoots and it will count a lot of things like velocity in both vertical and horizontal
sand umbra
Hive Pod in particular can build up a ton of Hivelings for when it's not attacking things
pulsar jay
you know how everyone talks about how summoner yharon is 
because the summons can't keep up with sub8
lead him into a fucking guidelight and watch him eat like 70000 damage
sleek wadi
How about instead of smart targets just make it home.
jaunty isle
then when you give it a try you realize how simple it is to just focus on dodging all of his attack and re cast the sentry for better positioning.
bitter drift
@sleek wadi you may be right, but i fear it will be too OP
jaunty isle
don't make it home
bitter drift
as i said i fear it will be too OP
sleek wadi
Then the numbers can be scaled back, homing will make it more reliable instead of just whiffing and being useless for 3 seconds.
jaunty isle
ye
jaunty isle
but early wep shouldn't have home in them
pulsar jay
the squirrel is better tbh
doesn't get stuck in walls and stop attacking
shoots significantly faster
bitter drift
in caves it doesn't do nothing, on bosses there is not enough DPS
pulsar jay
that's some FRESH firerate
jaunty isle
kept tossing dem acorn man
bitter drift
xD
jaunty isle
and sometime the sprite when bananas
bitter drift
sadly i had my summoner run before the update
sleek wadi
Summoner weapons are just fancy homing projectiles, I don't see a reason why wulfrum can't get a homing projectile especially if it is going to be that slow.
pulsar jay
i just started a summoner pt
most of the content is HM content
I won't be in hm by then
i have calamity, thorium, split, and redemption
I'll be in prehm for like a week
bitter drift
why you have so many major mods?
wooden wedge
and why is this in sugg desc???
pulsar jay
because you mentioned adir
bitter drift
biomes: alright, imma get out
sleek wadi
Doesn't need to be GREAT homing, more like a wide turn.
royal owl
I have experience in real world beekeeping, blacksmithing and pixel art (a tad bit of coding in the terraria mod loader), would I be any use to the mod team in development?
pulsar jay
when people say things it triggers response
bitter drift
jaunty isle
it sparks a discussion and sometime it can get out of hand but usually it doesn't
wooden wedge
@royal owl ask a mod or go to the art server
bitter drift
what is better: sluggish homing or smart targeting?
bitter drift
for the drone ya
jaunty isle
prefer smart targeting tbh
royal owl
I just joined the server and don't know who to contact, I just love terraria with my whole being
pulsar jay
you did that thing where you give two options but make one look bad
wooden wedge
and why are you guys talking about this in sugg desc
pulsar jay
gross strategy
pulsar jay
when people say things it sparks discussion 70% of the time
discussions can branch out very far
wooden wedge
then discuss suggestions
pulsar jay
it's very annoying to go into another channel everytime a discussiom branches out
jaunty isle
this is what we've been talking about
bitter drift
@wooden wedge and why should we be talking about my SUGGESTION for the drone rework :/
pulsar jay
most people who have friends know that
wooden wedge
it's very annoying to go into another channel everytime a discussiom branches out
you have to press a single thing wh
it's really not hard to click on cala mod talk
bitter drift
dude at this time you are the only one branching this conversation!
pulsar jay
see
you sparked a conversation that switched the topic because of a branch
you didn't move channels to talk about it now did you?
wooden wedge
that wasn't the point
bitter drift
DOESN'T MATTER!
jaunty isle
pulsar jay
don't dodge
bitter drift
let's just get back to the path before we are too far in the wood shall we?
bitter drift
-_-
jaunty isle
smart targeting or weaker homing?
bitter drift
^^ what do you think people?
i like the idea of smart targeting but i fear it will have too complex of an AI while the homing i fear it will be too OP
pulsar jay
why can't it just have clorophyte strong homing
op?
summons that make contact already don't require you to aim
bitter drift
this is a pre boss weapon xD
pulsar jay
and they deal rapid damage
bitter drift
no
pulsar jay
fucking slime
bitter drift
xD
pulsar jay
look at that damage spam
bitter drift
lol
the rework i suggested was the drone will fire a rocket or missile that does 3 times the damage of the current staff but fires 2x slower
the rocket also has a small AoE and the drone will smart target meaning it will aim before it shoots and it will count a lot of things like velocity in both vertical and horizontal
these are the stats as of now
jaunty isle
but if its home then remove the rocket thingy
sleek wadi
The homing is not going to make the drone busted and if it does then it can be brought back in line with a simple numbers nerf.
pulsar jay
^
and again
you're literally making them go through a scripting nightmare for smsrt targetting
bitter drift
i am trying to find how long does it take the drone to fire
is it 36 frames?
@pulsar jay do you think that the firing speed should be nerfed by 2x or 1.5x?
bitter drift
i think you only need a pink gel as the main ingredient
radiant meadow
the firing cooldown is between 0.5 seconds and 1.5 seconds (it's randomized a bit)
unreal viper
You should improve the grammar of your suggestion for clarity. Otherwise I like it.
radiant meadow
depends on how good your luck is
if slime staff uses pink gel, that's pretty rare as it stands
radiant meadow
wulfrum drone is just a few enemies and an anvil
pulsar jay
the rest is chill
bitter drift
@unreal viper ** i can't i'm pure Semitic trash**
radiant meadow
pink gel is pretty rare though
bitter drift
yes but actually no
unreal viper
Got it.
radiant meadow
unless you get lucky
bitter drift
in one of my world i was endlessly farming KS on my 7th kill i got both a slime staff and king slime spawned a pinky xD
hollow shell
Adir I think the rocket bit of your sugg is needlessly specific
radiant meadow
7 king slime kills is more difficult than 7 wulfrum enemy kills
bitter drift
king slime is a boss
radiant meadow
exactly
hollow shell
The way you describe the exact amount of more damage it would do compared to current, the (roughly) exact fire rate decrease, the size of its AoE and the strength of its homing
radiant meadow
slime staff being better than wulfrum remote is pretty expected
bitter drift
so @hollow shell you say to make it less clear
hollow shell
Just ask for the Drone to shoot a rocket that does an AoE, you don't need any of those somewhat precise measurements
radiant meadow
slime staff doesn't use any wood though. I should fix that
hollow shell
(and also ask that it be buffed I guess, but don't say what values it should be buffed by)
This is described in the Suggestion Don'ts doc
"Specificity is not recommended for suggestions, especially in terms of stats because then your suggestion could become concerned with balancing rather than just its ideas."
bitter drift
this good enough?
hollow shell
That is better
bitter drift
ok thanx
queen delta
I do kinda agree that wulfrum drone isnt as good as the squirrel summon
I get far more use out of squirrels than drones
radiant meadow
do I nerf squirrels or do I buff drones though?
glossy falcon
does the starter bag still give you the slime staff?
queen delta
I get more use out of squirrels because i can put them almost anywhere in my screen and they attack enemies there
They do pitiful damage, but they do the work
radiant meadow
do wulfrum drones at least have better dps?
queen delta
Ehh, they tend to miss sometimes
jaunty isle
so they don't suppose to home in ?
unreal viper
I don't like one of the suggestion "Don'ts". Am I allowed to talk about why in this channel?
radiant meadow
which one?
jaunty isle
because i thought that calamari do have homing projectile
radiant meadow
it's supposed to I guess. I just didn't know the ink homes in
unreal viper
The one that says that we shouldn't suggest buffs to early bosses.
bitter drift
@radiant meadow buff drone 100%
jaunty isle
huh interesting
radiant meadow
no
versed mica
I don't think any of the early bosses need buffs, why would they
radiant meadow
early bosses are meant to be easy
versed mica
^
bitter drift
well i think this is too low for calamity
versed mica
what do you mean too low
jaunty isle
it makes you accustom to the mod a bit so you know what you get into i guess
bitter drift
DS feels like it belong in thorium
versed mica
why?
bitter drift
too easy
unreal viper
You have to keep in mind that most people who play this mod have already beaten the base game. The bosses should be made with that in mind.
They should be challenging to a player who has beaten the base game.
jaunty isle
its a first boss you encounter tho ?
bitter drift
i can make a platform at the top of the desert and do a no hit 100000 times in a row
no
versed mica
thats what higher difficulties are for
unreal viper
Some people might feel like they're not ready for higher difficulties.
They should still be able to have fun and be challenged.
versed mica
Then they dont need harder bosses lol
bitter drift
also EoC has a giant problem with it's fight
bitter drift
dude i am already at death mode xD
versed mica
Not you
unreal viper
But some people might not want to fight other bosses on that difficulty. They might find the other bosses too hard.
versed mica
then you turn off the higher difficulty
radiant meadow
we can't cater to everyone
versed mica
thats a feature for a reason
unreal viper
You can't cater to people playing the calamity mod for the first time in subrev?
bitter drift
well can we agree that staying still and move ever so slightly once in a while is not a good fight?
because this is what death mode desert scourge is
frail mantle
casual reminder that DS and KS are tutorial bosses
that's probably been mentioned already but it's still important to consider
unreal viper
But people with calamity don't need a tutorial.
versed mica
Some people jump straight into modded
bitter drift
especially if they played terraria before
frail mantle
^
unreal viper
They've probably already beaten the base game.
frail mantle
i basically did
versed mica
its not recommended but people do it
frail mantle
my first proper playthrough was Calamity
zealous ridge
okay
gray nebula
yeah even if people already finished the base game, early game is still supposed to be easy
versed mica
I had 12 playthroughs of vanilla before going to modded and I find no issue with the transition
bitter drift
i have no beef with king slime that fight is totally balanced and kind of fun even without boots
unreal viper
They don't have to be hard, they should just force the player to think a little bit.
bitter drift
it's just DS and Eye of over consistency that are strange for me
zealous ridge
its hard to say how good of a boss desert scourge is because, yeah, hes an early ass boss
unreal viper
For example, grand thunder bird isn't hard, but you have to move to dodge the projectiles.
bitter drift
^
frail mantle
ds does force you to think
unreal viper
It forces you to build a platform.
frail mantle
indeed
bitter drift
in EoC you need to move a lot but you always need to move in the same patren, it never doesn't anything new
frail mantle
i agree that DS ain't exactly an amazing boss, but i disagree that he needs a buff
zealous ridge
i think he needs a "gameplay" buff, if that makes sense
like, he is boring as hell
queen sail
He needs to be more interesting
zealous ridge
and part of that is that he's easy
queen sail
Honestly
bitter drift
yap
zealous ridge
too easy imo
queen sail
I don’t really care if he’s easy or not but
bitter drift
and EoC need to have more then one attack xD
frail mantle
so, not exactly a buff but more a rework
unreal viper
I think his damage and health shouldn't be touched, he should just be able to hit you more.
zealous ridge
eoc is in a better state, i feel
bitter drift
@unreal viper agreed
zealous ridge
how do you define a rework as opposed to a buff?
bitter drift
@zealous ridge good fucking joke, but this is not the comedy show
queen sail
Comparing ks, who has a phase 2 with a jewel at the very least and can spawn a variety of slimes instead of generic blue ones
To
queen sail
Worm x2
frail mantle
rework changes the fight without necessarily making it harder or easier, buff just makes it harder
versed mica
eh
frail mantle
it is
zealous ridge
see, its hard to define
versed mica
yeah
bitter drift
@versed mica who is toxic maybe this overly consistent eye that i always kill at the first try because it has only one card in it's sleeves
versed mica
none
queen sail
None in particular
hollow shell
Can we not, then
unreal viper
No suggestion because it's not allowed.
queen sail
Some guy disagreed with the “no easy boss buffs”
bitter drift
it more of do X and Y bosses in need of a buff or not?
unreal viper
Me.
bitter drift
because EoC and DS are in a REALLY though spot as of now
zealous ridge
so, do you want to make a sugg about it?
unreal viper
You can't.
bitter drift
^
zealous ridge
or, is it disallowed because anything related to bosses isn't allowed to be touched
well, that's just dandy then
unreal viper
You can't suggest buffs to early game bosses.
bitter drift
no it's because of the balancing early bosses
hollow shell
You can touch bosses
but you cannot suggest buffs to early bosses yeah
queen sail
Usually frowned upon but early bosses are a don’t
Honestly I just have an issue with ds being boring rather than easy
Which, well
unreal viper
is suggesting reworks to early bosses allowed?
bitter drift
@queen sail EoC is both
queen sail
I’m not sure how to rework considering he’s a worm boss
hollow shell
Ehhh
bitter drift
he only need a way to get up to you that's it for DS
unreal viper
You could make the worm boss have an easier time reaching you.
bitter drift
like this is the only thing thing that make the fight too easy and the epidemy of boredom
@unreal viper that's all it needs
zealous ridge
i don't think we need to get... aggressive here
unreal viper
I think so too.
hallow kraken
Looking at desert scourge, he seems like a guy who would want to ram into you and eat your entire abdomen, not shoot sand or whatever at you from something
bitter drift
@hallow kraken that's his lore as well funny enough
a worm that is in an endless hunger always looking for his next meal
hollow shell
He does try to ram you
He's just a weak digger and cannot get up your the platform you probably set up
gray nebula
mighty knot
not use the items
gray nebula
but bosses get harder
gray nebula
like not getting hit early game is omega easy
hollow shell
Also it's way way easier to get hit in the later game
therefore killing adrenaline easier
bitter drift
i would say that EoC is actually easier then DS, since there is that 0.5% chance of DS YEETing himself up to your platform
hollow shell
Also yeah the Adrenaline time decreases are caused by items
mighty knot
what is that
the duality of man
I know somebody who just memes about it constantly
hollow shell
Whenever two people express opposing views on something in a very short period of time
hollow shell
Like "Hey should I use this weapon for this boss?"
'Yes'
'''No'''
"The duality of man"
queen sail
It could also be the same person without the short time part
Wait fucj
I thought rover said “It’s way easier to get hit early on in the game”
Shit
hollow shell
naw
bitter drift
unreal viper
Darned green slimes.
bitter drift
xD
sleek wadi
I mean, kinda? Less mobility and all
bitter drift
rly?
hollow shell
But I'm talkin like
Yharon and SCal are literally bullet hells
bitter drift
ya but should actually be hard to get?
so it does make sense
except for those who can't stop getting hit every other seconds
hollow shell
Equip Stalwart Shell- I mean Cross Necklace
bitter drift
nice
frail mantle
also thing i'm wondering about that i might or might not make a sugg about: why does SCal make your adrenaline buildup 45 seconds again
radiant meadow
why would people eat the consumables then???
hollow shell
I assume it was balancing concerns
Probably involving the bullet hells which have you focused purely on dodging and not attacking
bitter drift
ya
radiant meadow
and it's only 45 seconds if you eat all the upgrades
I found that out the hard way
frail mantle
makes sense, i suppose
hollow shell
oof
potent veldt
@ashen warren The main problem with this on why I can't agree with "It would help teach you" is because that wouldn't help teach anyone
radiant meadow
because the wiki was misleading and said always 45 seconds
so I thought I didn't need to use the consumables for nohit attempts
but iirc I fixed that on the wiki
potent veldt
Earlier bosses are just generally easier to dodge, so getting Adrenaline is easier.
hollow shell
Ye its fixed
potent veldt
So making it "shorter" wouldn't fix anything
hollow shell
Belated thanks, Ben 👍
bitter drift
some i would say are too easy
potent veldt
Because if you would get it or not is determined by your dodging, not how long it takes
bitter drift
couth couth EOC
potent veldt
If you could get Adrenaline from EoC in 20 seconds, you should be able to get it in 45
hollow shell
If anything, the longer periods are a better teacher
hollow shell
because they force you to proficiently dodge more often
bitter drift
EoC fight is just a single attack then people ask why it is easy
me: visible confusion
frail mantle
i mean it's not just a single attack
bitter drift
it's literally just one attack
frail mantle
at least not in Rev+, if you mean in expert and below then i agree
bitter drift
no no i'm talking about death mode
hollow shell
Expert you could argue has 2 attacks
short and long charges
hallow kraken
Horizontal charges are legitimately pretty fun
hollow shell
Rev+ definitely has at least 2 or 3 distinct attacks (arguably 4)
unreal viper
It has normal charges, spawns minions, and dashes.
bitter drift
EoC does the same things over and over and over again until it's dead
dash spam then horizontal dash, R E A P E T
frail mantle
no it doesn't
frail mantle
it varies its attack pattern throughout the fight with things like horizontal dashes and summoning eyes
bitter drift
ok so those are 2 attacks, still doesn't change the difficulty of the fight
unreal viper
And those attacks are decently hard to dodge, unless you completely tryhard in arena prep.
bitter drift
because he does them all in the same order all the time
hollow shell
It also spawns eyes in Phase 2 which it doesn't do in Expert
frail mantle
it does make EoC harder than in Expert
bitter drift
ya but those are consistent throughout the entire fight
frail mantle
cause Rev+ Eye makes sure you can't just hold a or d to win
hollow shell
(I'm not maintaining the ding-dong-ditch list anymore but notnotmelon would definitely go on it)
agile cloud
no cobalt shield means you can get stunlocked by the small eyes
sturdy pelican
get stunlocked = fuck
bitter drift
@frail mantle does it matter? it does the same easy pattern all the time so you get what you need to do at the first quarter of the fight
unreal viper
Hook can get you out of bad situations.
bitter drift
yes
sturdy pelican
Hook almost always*
unreal viper
I hope they add more hooks.
hollow shell
The things you need to do for Rev+ EoC are harder than just holding one direction
Expert has you just holding one direction, pretty much
frail mantle
^
unreal viper
Yeah.
frail mantle
with a long enough platform in Expert you can just run and the eye of choochoo never even farts on you
bitter drift
i guess so but really you just made us just and switch directions every 5 seconds and the fight is still easier then any fight in the game
hollow shell
Remember: Early boss
It has a pattern that you can learn, and you can develop strategies to get around that pattern, and that's not a bad thing
frail mantle
^
bitter drift
in fact it made the fight even easier for me
hollow shell
Pressing more than 1 button is easier than pressing 1 button?
bitter drift
the fact that i don't an arena as big as 2 large biomes combined
agile cloud
as a smash bros player: pressing B and A is way harder than just B
2 buttons is harder than 1 button
ashen warren
hello
hollow shell
Hey
bitter drift
i mean at least at expert mode it does more then the same useless pattern not saying it didn't have a lot of problems because it did
hollow shell
Read the convo that ensued after your pings
ashen warren
I was lurking
hollow shell
aight
Usually when you get pinged, a response is expected
Better late than never, I guess
bitter drift
at least we can say (expert) EoC did a better run & gun then cup head ain't that right?
hollow shell
I think so
agile cloud
oke
lemme type this out and you can confirm/deny this
Whilst debunking/debating with someone about their suggestion and no progress is being made, end the conversation. There is no need to continue arguing if they will not listen/dig in their heels more, its just not worth it.
does this sound good?
hollow shell
That's not what it's saying adir
ashen warren
the suggestion rules are a fun read
hollow shell
(also the sugg don'ts is already censoring a lot of speech)
agile cloud
i remember when lorde suggs were like every 10
unreal viper
How could you guys enforce it?
hollow shell
I'll yell at people
bitter drift
at least this is not the subnautica discord
unreal viper
Seems to work.
hollow shell
But
I dunno if that should be pinned. I'm not.. too sure about it
frail mantle
it's saying If a convo in here is going in circles and we're just repeating the same points over and over again, just drop the convo
bitter drift
say a naught word more then 3 times and you are banned for a month there :/
agile cloud
thats simplified, and gets the point accross better
hollow shell
(So notnotmelon, do you have anything to say about the criticism you received?)
cuz you got a lotta feedback
unreal viper
That doesn't seem to be what you were orginally try to say, Blackouts_.
bitter drift
@hollow shell i think that's an understatement xD
hollow shell
m
unreal viper
A lot of this stuff wasn't feedback on his suggestion, to be fair.
hollow shell
Yeah we were continuing the boss convo
agile cloud
most of this was debating
sturdy pelican
did you guys talk about the adrenaline timer yet or no
hollow shell
but there was definitely some stuff about Adrenaline timers
agile cloud
idk about the adren change though
hollow shell
yeah
sturdy pelican
keep it or just make it not decrease
i didn’t even know it decreased during fights
sturdy pelican
idk
what i *think he’s saying is as fights go on the timer goes down
instead of the items or something
agile cloud
it goes down as the fights go on?
hollow shell
"during fights" and "as fights go on" really makes it sound like you're saying
it's during a single boss fight, it decreases the timer, and then in another boss fight it starts back up again and decreases
which is not how it works
hollow shell
The timer to reach maximum Adrenaline decreases permanently when you use items that are dropped by certain bosses
frosty dagger
Make the suspiciously looking jelly bean mount be able to go through platforms
The point of this item is to be slime mount 2.0, and it delivers in all aspects but this. It seems weird for it to be a slime mount with different abilities, not to mention how annoying and arbitrary it is that you can't. This can lead to you getting hit and sometimes losing in some boss fights because of the time you slow down to release the mount, fall through, and bring it back (cough cough Yharon).
sturdy pelican
yeah that’s annoying
hollow shell
You could mention why dropping through platforms would be useful
instead of generally referring to it as a function and making it a consistency argument
Yeah that's better
fervent citrus
Heh i like that one sugg about luminite 
sturdy pelican
hollow shell
@distant rivet Just wanna make sure you know about the right-click targeting feature
Also yeah there's gonna be like 2 or 3 new minions for Yharon next update
or 4?
gray nebula
3 new minions for p1 and 2 more for p2
hollow shell
yee nice
gray nebula
frosty dagger
Y'all were serious when you said you went gonna make summoner not linerary, awesome
frosty dagger
Big brain time
hollow shell
The new minions were specifically designed to be used against Yharon
so they'll keep up with him better than Mechworm
small talon
Do you mean the phase where he enters expert mode duke fishron mode?
with the invis charges?
distant rivet
yeah, and true kindle minions work way better than mechworm
small talon
cuz if so i completely fucking agree, summoner is a nightmare inthat phase
the minions only target him during the half a second that he is dashing
cuz thats the only time he is vulnerable
distant rivet
exactly what i meant
small talon
in that pfase i suggest that minions still target him while he is invulnerable
it would fix that problem
or, alternatively, dont make him invulnerable, just make him go dungeon guardian mode with 999999 defense
hollow shell
Yeah that's a solution
distant rivet
i love that dude
hollow shell
Give him Unbreakable DR (as the source calls it), so that he can still be targeted
small talon
if it wouldnt be too hard to do I would love that fix, i get the phase is supposed to be hard but its near impossible for summoner class in specific and just plain unfair
hollow shell
Try it out next update when you have a lot more options
and see if..
that sugg is still necessary, I guess
distant rivet
Thx for the great guys discussion, I'm lf to that new update
rapid pivot
Suggestion: Make a terrarium-like item to keep the Piggy in.
❓ It'd give the collectors/completionists another thing to grab, and it's not really consistent to have something you can catch with the bug net not be an option for that. Plus, only being able to kill Piggy is mean. ;c
Thoughts? :P
small talon
Been suggested before
hollow shell
"terrarium" is the word you're looking for
small talon
that too
hollow shell
and it's okay that it's been suggested before
small talon
I know just mentioning
hollow shell
I'd like a lil more reasoning to it
Consistency is a good reason, considering all the terrariums in vanilla
radiant meadow
hold sprooters at gun point
smoky wagon
rapid pivot
How's that?
hollow shell
Yeah that's better
ashen warren
i mean there's piggy banner
radiant meadow
piggy banner wasn't sprited by a dev
paper hinge
wait piggy terrarium isn't a thing?
civic pond
nope
indigo fog
I'm guessing the set bonuses would be nerfed then? Rapid Healing with Shadow Dodge honestly sounds kinda busted
tired haven
Wait wait wait
Did we just stumble across hardmode auric?
(also yes it would be so op that the armor basically becomes post-golem tier if not further)
indigo fog
what is orichalcum's set bonus?
tired haven
A petal that deals damage, on enemy hits
indigo fog
Is it anywhere as good as palladium and titanium's set bonus?
tired haven
If you want to go bonkers with damage, yes
If regularly, probably worse than both but that's more of taste
radiant meadow
it's pretty strong iirc
palladium for stronk regen
orichalcum for dmg
titanium for dumb dodge
combining all 3 sounds like an absolute disaster
digital saddle
maybe would be too strong
tired haven
👀 Well try to fight some boss without greater healing potions
That's about how it feels to switch from palladium's healing
digital saddle
i just think its a cool idea at least
tired haven
(let alone the fact it can weaken DoTs unlike regular regen)
digital saddle
hallowed used to use cobalt/mythril/adamantite anyways
tired haven
Yeah, but it never put up the full sum of them
And since none had special bonuses, it basically was just a tiny bit of stats over material armors
(and still is)
digital saddle
imo there should be some mitigating factor to slow early hardmode progression instead of rocketing straight to daedalus in like an hour
ive thought about different ways of doing it but none really seem good to me
radiant meadow
hallowed is already better than daedalus statwise pretty sure
or at least, the last 5 times I checked
radiant meadow
no
digital saddle
i thought it was kinda cool
indigo fog
Isn't there already an accepted plague charger banner resprite in the art server
radiant meadow
so basically yell at Gram to finish his banner resprites for abyss enemies
gusty geode
Came in late but
Aren't Super Dummies HM-locked because regular ones have a lower HP count or something
vocal grotto
I mean, technically they have 1000 HP. You just never see it
ashen warren
You can do over 1000 damage in one hit in vanilla can’t you?
vocal grotto
You can, but target dummies have a thing in place where damage doesn't register no matter what iirc
ashen warren
In that case why not give them 1HP for memes
hollow shell
Safety net ¯_(ツ)_/¯
ashen warren
then mods came and stomped all over it
sleek wadi
This suggestion is rare as fuck, a normal mode suggestion and a nerf at that. I guess it makes sense, but I don't know enough about normal mode to say anything about the suggestion
hollow shell
Indeed rare but it does make sense
All our testers play with Rev, after all. Death too. Sometimes Expert but I don't think any really play Normal.
So it's possible stuff is difficult in all modes when it should be locked to Expert+ or Rev+
pulsar jay
why does hp count matter?
you're not supposed to kill the dummy right?,
the hm dummies can't be killed either way and are just better for no reason
ashen warren
It does seem strange, but at the same time I don’t imagine you need all that much DPS optimization for pre hardmode
pulsar jay
so?
why not just have it there?
i have summons i want to compare dps with
why can't i?
ashen warren
I’m assuming it was originally designed with homing projectiles in mind, and prehardmode lacks those
Whoever was responsible for that forgot about the summoner class entirely
hollow shell
A history of Super Dummies:
It was originally an Apotheosis & Friends item/enemy, but it was used for Calamity wiki gifs because it was useful for demonstrations. Devs & wiki people asked for a version of the Super Dummy to be added to Calamity so the gifs would be more truthful, on top of the DPS testing reasons, and so it happened.
There was debate over how it should be obtained, such as making it unobtainable or crafted with Calamitous Essence (because it'd be primarily used by testers and wiki demonstrators).
We settled on it being made at a Draedon's Forge.
Now (after suggestions and several updates), it is made at a Hardmode Anvil.
(And soon it may be made at Pre-Hardmode Anvil?
17 more stars...)
Make of the history what you will, I just think it'd be useful to know.
tepid root
where does fargo's come into this
hollow shell
it doesn't afaik
hollow shell
Maybe it was transferred from Apoth to there