that's not true at all
#suggestions-discussion
pulsar jay
gray nebula
The testers will
zenith hazel
we balanced 100+ items last update
zenith hazel
who’s to say we won’t do it again
gray nebula
Bruh
zenith hazel
that makes no sense
frosty dagger
Unless you mean yourselves
zenith hazel
you don’t need stars for us to see it needs to be balanced
left crest
buff them except for aerial bane
zenith hazel
you can just say something like random like “mana rose is so broken” and we’ll look into it
pulsar jay
terrible example, mana flower sucks
zenith hazel
because unlike people saying “copper shortsword is broken”, mana rose being too good actually makes sense
mana rose just got nerfed so idk what your point is lol
frosty dagger
Almost all of the OOA weps are bad, some of the pre hm sentries aren't bad, but only because you don't have toher sentries
indigo fog
an early game mage weapon
zenith hazel
[[Mana Rose]]
red stormBOT
zenith hazel
and mana flower isn’t even that bad so there’s that
pulsar jay
put it in the chest and forgot about it
left crest
it upgrades many times and is never good and is always hard to use imo
zenith hazel
the point is, testers will look into feedback given the chance
ashen warren
hard to use is really hard to quantify
zenith hazel
but usually, not many people actually give feedback that’s detailed
ashen warren
it's why boss kill times are now the standard
frosty dagger
If you want me to make a list I will delete this and do a DPS check against a boss with each OOA at their respective point in progression and compare it to the good Calamity options
But the post will be a absolute mountain nof a post
left crest
but this discussion aint about mana rose it’s about OOA weapons, and I think that none of them are really viable except chad bane
pulsar jay
the bess boss to measure it again is PBG or rav
post golem bosses
rav is a bad example he doesn't move
so just pbg
frosty dagger
There are multiple phases and I will do it on who I think is best
ashen warren
or do both?
frosty dagger
Who would rather me do this
zenith hazel
that’s very close minded tbh
frosty dagger
It may take a day or two
zenith hazel
it’s best to test against all 4 due to how different they all work
tired haven
then 4 cuz duke
pulsar jay
i always forget he exists
ashen warren
picking only one boss will always skew results
frosty dagger
Also, I'm not going to list all the gear in the post, that would take to much space, but use the same gear for all weps of the same class
zenith hazel
rav is bulky but immobile, duke is frail so it’s a short fight, pbg is decently bulky but still pretty mobile, lc is frail but hard to hit
pulsar jay
duke is frail?
zenith hazel
yes
ashen warren
it's part of why testing can be so long, you need to test against as many permutations of enemies with as many permutations of setups that you can
frosty dagger
Ok I will do that, you will hear from me later when it is completed
zenith hazel
he takes around 2 minutes to kill, which is already the shortest kill time out of all of the hm bosses, only tied with lc/golem
ashen warren
fishron is fast and intense, that be the deal
pulsar jay
and that's why even though the content itself is being added at a pretty fast rate, maybe in a few days, the update can take a few weeks to get out
because of testing
tired haven
That's why public opinion could have been so helpful: big amount of variations to look at the items from all sides
But alas, most feedback ends up at words "useless" or "op"
pulsar jay
people don't generally comment on things unless they really have a fuss to make about it
zenith hazel
then we can just push the rebalances to next update
the most important things to push for rn are acid rain & summoner expansion, the rebalances can be taken care of later if necessary
pulsar jay
i'm hyped
ashen warren
I'm more of a fan of getting through adding the stuff you want to add and caring about balancing and so on later
zenith hazel
yeah
pulsar jay
having the community be the testers
allows you to get results
very fast
the problem is
that all depends on the behaviour
of the community
zenith hazel
they can bs their way through testing
ashen warren
a balance channel to talk about this stuff more extensively, with testing/posting guides and so on, might be neat
pulsar jay
fabsol is always talking about how people talking about balance is usually complaining and never any helpful info
zenith hazel
we’ve had people like this before, saying “this is op” but when we tested it, this wasn’t the case
zenith hazel
take a boss that’s supposed to be killed in 4 mins, like provi
fervent zealot
from an actual logical standpoint usually it's things that stand out in terms of damage output compared to other similar weapons of the tier
zenith hazel
if something kills her in half that time then it’s definitely op
digital saddle
ok
zenith hazel
basically 90% of ranger and mage last update
tired haven
Not even necessarily damage
If it does the same damage as the rest but homes or something, it would become op too
coughs in ark tree
ashen warren
consistency and ease of use is part of it yes
fervent zealot
yeah but i said damage output not damage
zenith hazel
yes, there are other aspects that may be included in test conclusions
tired haven
You can get the same output too, but focus more on dodging with homing weapon
zenith hazel
if wulfrum staff is stronger than diamond staff for example, then that’s a problem
tired haven
Wulfrum iirc is worse than amethyst unless utilizing pierce so pretty good spot. hehe
pulsar jay
or imagine an attack is meant to kill the average person of that tier in like 3 hits and then some type of armor set from said tier lets you tank like 8x that
that's op
tired haven
Beetle set doesn't really sound that much op tbh 
o
too bad the closest ever pretender to this example is valhalla breastplate and it's not enough still iirc
Tanky playstyles are kinda dead overall, whether because they are too quick to turn into afking bosses or because you can dodge just as effectively with those armor/regen mountains
digital saddle
tanky playstyles could be made skillful
something based on getting hit by the right things
and using the iframes to go in for TM hits
tired haven
Statue enemies are sure the right things most of the time, sadly
Thought about rally effect for True Melee specifically, but that's rather arbitrary mechanic all over again and it'd either negate contact damage fully or be mildly useless
digital saddle
Is TM still an adrenaline simulator
tired haven
Adrenaline is kinda dead, so it's now fungal symbiote runaway simulator, maybe
Not wanna even look at that mess recently tbh
There was something about 500k dps stellar striker and akin strategies that allured me, but it's gone
digital saddle
Yeah I noticed adrenaline isn't as insane as it used to be
I feel like rage is a really unpolished mechanic
But I don't really have a clear idea how to fix it
tired haven
No idea either tbh
Maybe the rage could become the extended rally mechanic, as it relies heavily on getting hit anyway, and storing your "rage" doesn't seem exactly correct
Just something to give you a mild bonus for getting hit if you act offensively or have certain accessories to compliment rage generation
digital saddle
Maybe rage could be worked to a melee mechanic
Like what stealth is for rogues almost
Builds by dealing and taking damage, decays otherwise
Granting bonus damage and DR for each point of rage?
tired haven
Maybe, although grabbing a mechanic and making it one class-specific is kinda devaluing
If it was differently efficient for any class, could be fine (adrenaline is currently better for not-getting-hit-that-much like ranger, summoner and rogue, for example)
mage is kinda in the middle because of close range spells, shh
gusty geode
I would bring up paladin's shield and the playstyle it encourages or did in vanilla but that's honestly a whole other issue
civic pond
Honestly maybe there should be another way to build rage other than just getting hit..? Obviously rage doesn't and shouldn't have as much reward as adrenaline though
a
tired haven
Or should it? After all, trying to use adrenaline doesn't get you killed, trying to use rage does
that's rather touchy subject though, risk-reward and all that
Just that imho if rage will give a bigger reward, it should also be less convenient to use for random hits rather than knowing exactly that you will/did get hit and can go wild
Right now it does kind of the opposite by stockpiling rage meter
Also the way to generate rage already exists, HoD/Draedon's Heart
Albeit that simply looks like weaker adrenaline/damage emblem most of the time
Only worth way seems to be to keep Absolute Rage buff and 10% dmg from the accessory
now i wish i could actually suggest anything out of that dialogue but the one thing I actually crave for is too massive and the rest is kinda torn apart from the whole picture
loud steeple
im a bit late to the party about the hammer nerf suggestion thingy but how much damege exactly does the hammer do?
tired haven
You can check the stats on wiki but iirc it does 22, just like depth blade back then
gray nebula
it's more a sword than a hammer
tired haven
(main damage will come from debuff regardless)
gray nebula
it just became a hammer to go along with the new resprite
pulsar jay
The scal pet should berate you when you get hit
hollow shell
You could give a reason for why she should speak, specifically.
(and that reason would be because she is very talkative during her fight)
hollow shell
aight
hollow idol
You may want to ask @-jmWarior13582#0023 since its their item
hollow shell
True
pulsar jay
IT IS?
i didn't know it was like a dev item like that in that type of way
or is it a donor item
hollow idol
donor
dusty stirrup
Well it's be important in this case since it's a suggestion revolving around his patreon item
pulsar jay
how do i get in contact with him
i guess i just
wait
oh
you think it's important enough?
hollow idol
@warped gorge Sug for you
pulsar jay
Jm i made a sugg based around your donor item do you approve?
hollow idol
ancient auric helm
hollow idol
gs what
unkempt bolt
hollow idol
if you mean ancient godslayer that was just because Iban thought ancient godslayer looked cool
hasty surge
ah ok
i actually while writing it had to start over because i didnt know ancient godslayer armor existed
hollow idol
but i'd say ancient auric helmet would be the only other old armor worth reviving, other stuff isn't really iconic
hasty surge
i think my main idea was ancient boss masks
sleek wadi
NGL I wish we got an ancient Daedalus helm. Due to the way it interacted with dyes, it made the bit underneath the crown look like big ol' eyes and that did wonders for all vanity.
warped gorge
WAIT WHAT DID I MISS @hollow idol @pulsar jay WHAT AB MY PATREON ITEM
WHAT'S HAPPENING
hasty surge
i looked into it a bit and like wow dog could drop like 4 ancient masks
small talon
@warped gorge dont put it in suggestions
hollow idol
:sigugh:
warped gorge
And then?
hollow idol
actually hold up, its your item, you could just request it to be changed yourself iirc
warped gorge
There is something ab the pet I have a little problem with
But idk how i'd get in contact with the devs ab it
they're busy anyways, i'd hate to interrupt their work just to fix a little thing for me
hollow idol
these people
warped gorge
Hm
hollow shell
Don't sweat contacting people for fixes
You're a donator and it's your item
(and if they're too busy to do it now, we can add it to our to-do list(s))
keen nebula
Maybe instead of recipes for the mimic drops, it might be cool if there were some way to turn a regular chest into a regular mimic
hasty surge
ooo i like the sound of that
hollow shell
Thorium has an item that does that but it'd be nice if we had one as well
terse sundial
:) indeed
frosty dagger
@viscid notch
They will come when they come if the devs want them
Also, you sound super impatient rn
Mabey explain where to find them as well
distant gyro
yea, there is already an existing track so replacing them isn't really on high priority list
the reason for why it hasn't been implemented isn't public but it'll come when it'll come
frosty dagger
My dissapointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined
distant gyro
quick ice
is there any chance they'll come out with this next update, since we might get an update already for Acid Rain Theme/New boss theme or even both
terse sundial
good answer altix
frosty dagger
Did you know that phantom pheonix (post mech OOA drop) without any buff potions, reforges, Daedelus armor, and amalgated brain and ranger emblem of damage accerroies can't kill cloneamitas in one night
In fact, it can only do about 1 third on Cloneamitas health
terse sundial
the what
distant gyro
Phantom Phoenix is a meme
terse sundial
the wep looks cool and has a neat projectile
frosty dagger
Barinaudical did it in a bit over five min with the same gear
terse sundial
brb buffing it by 200%
distant gyro
I think one time I recommend it to Thomas for his Plant nohit because I'd love someone to use it unironically
frosty dagger
Thanks
ashen warren
@viscid notch that seems more like a question and not a suggestion
terse sundial
^
frosty dagger
In my testing this is the worst OOA wep, but so far all of the ones I have tested suck
When I finish I'll make a sug list
terse sundial
and the answer to that is, when they're ready to be implemented
tired haven
So, does that imply that sleeping octopod and brand of the inferno were better than phoenix?
vague valve
pulsar jay
It's not just ooa's weapons that are a problem
ooa 3 is a fucking balance mess
nobody tackles it until post ml
but it's intended to be tackled post golem
i don't know what's causing the balance issues i think it's just ooa 3 as a whole not just betsy
split narwhal
fervent citrus
Make cryogen's projectiles more visible
Reason: As of now, spawning cryogen will lead to a snowstorm starting, severly reducing the player's visibility. Either one can reduce or completely remove the snowstorm's blinding, or make cryogen's projectiles easier to spot. There are a few ways to do this and here are some:
- Give the projectiles a glowing effect - they don't have to glow too much, just enough to be seen.
- Make them more or completely red under the dangersense potion effect - that way one doesn't have to change the projectiles themselves, just make them heavier effected by the potion.
- Give them a darker colour - this might counter-effect the snowstorm's visibilty decrease.
fervent citrus
opinions? 
fervent citrus
I guess thats a good strat :P
tepid root
i just dont fight him in the ice biome tbh
fervent citrus
Lul
ashen warren
On the thing about visibility on projectiles
Just turn off in video settings blizzard effects
ashen warren
dingus
fervent citrus
I spose so
distant gyro
back when you can use torrential tear in a boss fight everyone just used it
ashen warren
Kinda like saying changing your crosshair in a game to 1 pixel is cheating
distant gyro
so no it's not really cheating
fervent citrus
Oh, i guess ill do that then
pulsar jay
I didn't even know blizzards blocked vision
i turn off storm effects
my pc sucks ass so they eat my frames
and they're annoying in general
gray nebula
talking pet sounds a bit disturbing,,,
tired haven
we already got a singing dragon, let's go for talking pet
opal barn
pet with voice acting
ashen warren
Just have her say "Really... A bat?"
gray nebula
jetshif,,,,;;
ashen warren
If you get hit by one
pulsar jay
"You did that on purpose right?"
"You didn't perform this terribly when you were fighting me."
"Wow you really fell off your game from last time"
"What are you doing?"
"I thought you were a LITTLE better than this"
"You're honestly embarrassing me"
signal quiver
"This Armor ain't rusty, you are!"
pulsar jay
i can only imagine that sentence with a southern accent and now all i can think of is scal speaking with a southern accent
this is cursed
signal quiver
lol
pulsar jay
"How did i manage to lose to you in the first place?"
jaunty isle
I don't get why people kept complaining about skeleton prime maybe just me but the fight didn't take that long
signal quiver
Speaking of which, will the Yharim boss ever be implemented/made at all?
jaunty isle
Patient is a virtue
signal quiver
bruh hasnt it been 1.5 yhears since the major update to Calamity
frail mantle
depends on what you consider major
signal quiver
lemme see the update history rq
hallow kraken
What’s a major update?
frail mantle
if you mean major as in new boss, that was a year ago (though only if you consider Aureus a new boss instead of a boss rework)
hallow kraken
I think the Rogue Update was pretty major
frail mantle
that too
signal quiver
then yeah, its been a while since a new boss
jaunty isle
and soon we'll get new major update again
frail mantle
then next update is a major update 
jaunty isle
with the new event and boss for it
digital saddle
Yes
Thank God someone suggested that
Cryogens particles are really easy to miss
radiant meadow
Levi pet just dies 
indigo fog
Isn't this like the fourth suggestion to nerf skeletron prime's health
I never found it to take that long to kill
digital saddle
I guess some ppl disagree 🤷
indigo fog
I got 2:12 with this gear and Spear of Destiny
I never had it take more than 4 minutes
indigo fog
Megashark and some other weapon
digital saddle
oh item suggestions arent allowed now? just reread the rules
kinda sad
it was fun to theorycraft
indigo fog
I used their exact same gear and got barely over 4 minutes
indigo fog
potions, reforges, everything
zenith hazel
spear of destiny is a RIV + avenger emblem is post-mechs anyway
makes sense for spear to be that fast
zealous ridge
avenger isnt post mechs exactly
its post-3souls ig
and yeah, weapons will change kill times a lot
fun fact, this game isn't as well balanced or even as balanceable as you think
zenith hazel
yeah but we’d rather not base our test results around that
ashen warren
“Mechs are post mechs”
zealous ridge
i really still don't think a star downvote is needed or even really that good
zenith hazel
point is we’d rather use accs like those against bosses that are post-mechs/alts like clonemitas when balancing things
digital saddle
yeahhhh i dont like star downvotes
personally
would rather have a discussion about it
than just downvote
zealous ridge
star downvotes are not great because
- people can vote for both if they want
- i know it's not meant for it, but the ! basically serves as a question mark button in the community, it's hard to deny
- Downvotes disincentives discussion and just encourages you to use the vote system, which is more convineient but ultimately won't generate interesting discussion or give an accurate portrayal of the actual trends of a suggestion, as mentioned in point 1
at least
that's what i think
id much prefer discussion over a downvote because of these points
hail oh god
here we go with lifesteal again
zealous ridge
well, its a common topic of discussion, moreso
nothing wrong with the sugg
but balance wise lifesteal is hell
digital saddle
bloodstained glove kinda sucks 1 hp is irrelevant
digital saddle
i didnt provide a specific number, but i think something in the ballpark of 10 could be fine
its not like vampire knives
zealous ridge
personally, i would give it a new effect entirely
perhaps increased life regen
rather than full-on healing that ignores regen stats and just gives an amount of hp
because its either gonna be ass, or too good
10 hp sounds scary, honestly
digital saddle
thats every few seconds at most
zealous ridge
okay, lets take 3 seconds as an example
to activate strikes and heal 10 hp each
over the course of 15 seconds, you get 50 hp back
roughly
that's ignoring life regen
and healing pots
personally, i think that's a bit much
especially considering skeletron, a high damage boss that gets those damaging hits off infrequently
(skelespin, infrequent arm swings, ghost bolts after teleport)
the skulls too, but theyre easier to dodge
if anything, this thing needs a little bit of a nerf? i could see it happening, considering 10 armor penetration
the heal can go away, sure
or at least be replaced
but 10 free damage is really nice in pre-hm
then again, this may just be my other-mod balance ideas being confabulated with calamity
distant gyro
ok tbf it's only for 1 hit and 1 hit exactly with a 3-7 seconds cooldown
the gimmick of stealth strikes™️
tired haven
Before, when SS could be more accessible, it made more sense
Right now that glove surely could use a mild buff
paper hinge
in my playthrough I must've had it equipped for one boss fight, then just put it to storage
karmic stone
I like, Golden Keys stop existing entirely after you get a Shadow Key and maybe Shield/Muramasa
Though a recipe to something else may be necessary to still promote grind and not trivialize mimic farming
dreamy fjord
cmon guys we need to get the talking scal pet to 120 stars
karmic stone
Golden Key + Stuff 😳 = Key that summons mimics
dreamy fjord
we need to do it
potent veldt
Well, you can just buy the golden key from the clothier
dreamy fjord
also i do like the idea of a mimic summon key
potent veldt
Which is also a problem
karmic stone
Oh, that's Clam?
dreamy fjord
or 5 souls of light/night
karmic stone
We needn't get into specifics, just pointing out that different materials are necessary to make mimic farming not easy is enough
potent veldt
Yeah, Golden Keys being sold are clam
karmic stone
Plus King Slime exists
potent veldt
Ill add it
paper hinge
what about only making them farmable post cryo
dreamy fjord
how would that work tho
dreamy fjord
to be fair mimic drops nice stuff
potent veldt
The key to put in them could be Cryo Key
paper hinge
as said before, you don't really wanna trivialise mimic farming
plus, there are ice mimics
karmic stone
How does locking this behind x make them not spammable
It just comes down to whatever the recipe is
paper hinge
(or rather ice chest mimics)
karmic stone
It doesnt really matter if its pre or Post cryo
karmic stone
Yea
indigo fog
this was suggested before right
toxic kettle
yea
distant gyro
toxic kettle
Yatagarasu suggested it once and it was accepted even
distant gyro
it's not accepted, it's approved
void kelp
is there something wrong w yata making a suggestion?
distant gyro
I assume accepted means accepted to the mod
it means the new sug is a blue-check
it's a tradition I do
void kelp
ah that’s what they meant
it’s a blue check bc it’s what you uhhh do w previously sent and approved sugmas iirc
karmic stone
Yea it's then marked as frequently suggested
void kelp
@north fox why
north fox
Because I remember a mod, that makes night' edge shoot projectiles,but I can't rememer the name of this mod
karmic stone
So
hot zephyr
legendary items just as a gimmick are kinda stupid. it's why mahem mode exists in BL3
karmic stone
Oh you cant find the mod and now you want Clam to do it so you dont have to search for it basically
Solid
hot zephyr
and Night's Edge does not need projectiles lmao
by that logic, Excalibur needs em too
fleet jungle
I'll suggest the excalibur projectiles, dw.
hot zephyr
hello fellow desole 2D
fleet jungle
but am also on the boat of "not needing projectiles".
hot zephyr
b o a t
fleet jungle
🙂
hot zephyr
pickle man sad
round falcon
Oh boy, another suggestion to discuss.
Nerf the Clam Summon.
Reason: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vc1_EfZRjrw&
gray nebula
already done
round falcon
i feel your pain
indigo fog
Why would we give Night's Edge projectiles if Bloody Edge doesn't fire anything
those are both meant to be pretty similar to each other
night cradle
not every melee weapon has to have projectiles imho
Night's Edge is already fine as a true melee as it stands
plus, the Gelitic Blade/Ball 'o' Fugu exist, which can both used as projectile weaps vs. WoF
digital saddle
TM really needs work in general
elder mist
tired haven
me when clam 
weary walrus
Imagine Night Edge shooting sword beam in prehm
Tbh, if you find prehm post skeletron bosses hard with melee class, try using amidas's trident
weary walrus
Waffle is kinda headache for melee so i can understand why you suggest that
ashen warren
Sausage Maker
teal ibex
okay, so since it's been brought up a few times recently i decided to write something up. curious what people might think.
Rework Calamity lifesteal based weaponry.
There's a hugely problematic presence in Terraria's weapon design, and that's lifesteal. If overtuned, the player becomes unkillable, and if undertuned, the effect has no relevancy to the game. When tuned correctly, it acts as a makeshift life regen that can be frustrating and inconsistent.
So, instead of sticking to vanilla's shoddy, awkward means of lifesteal, I propose that lifesteal should embrace it's regen-esque elements and instead grant the player buffs to life regeneration depending upon certain conditions.
Each weapon could handle this differently: a rogue weapon that grants lifesteal regen on stealth strikes, a ranged weapon that provides it for using certain ammo types, a summon that channels it at the cost of minion slots, you name it. By embracing the flaws of lifesteal and considering it more practically, the mechanic can still have an identity without being as frustrating.
The duration, potency, and conditions are extremely malleable. You could have extremely short, but very high potency effects or more consistent, low-and-slow effects for other weapons. This way, lifesteal can have a place in the game, as well as some variety, without being so frustratingly inconsistent and unintuitive.
lifestyle
good typos hectic
teal ibex
tru tru 
but yeah, since lifesteal is just makeshift regen but inconsistent and unintuitive, i think it makes more sense to just overhaul lifesteal to be life regen, but with more variety and conditional aspects to it
sand umbra
so what I'm seeing here is, in essence, lifesteal becomes more akin to other life regen buffs
as opposed to just being an instantaneous heal
teal ibex
yeah, no more direct projectiles and scaling with dps, instead it'll be locked to player buffs so you can predictably gauge how much the weapon actually impacts you
because current lifesteal is often met with complaints about literally not working
when it most definitely is, it's just sparse due to how the weapons and mechanics work
which is then met with "buff lifesteal"
which you can't do because then it's broken
sand umbra
well, here's what I think about this, on a scale from 0 to 10:
also known as "literally above 10"
teal ibex
it was either that or the fish was making a 0 with his mouth LOL
sand umbra
fleet jungle
lol
sand umbra
but yeah
making these effects work towards life regen rather than towards potion-style raw healing would be really interesting and would make balancing against them much easier
because suddenly
- the heal isn't instantaneous like it is currently, but rather takes place over time, preventing unkillable-ness
b) the heal is consistent, fixing the issue of lifesteal current being extremely wonky and sometimes just not function
iii) the heal can actually be reasonably quantified, because...well, see also: b
fleet jungle
wants lifesteal to be like pots 
teal ibex
it's also nice that it isn't just damage scalar honestly
fleet jungle
steady regen or strong heal with downtime
teal ibex
it's cute to be like "woah my crits heal me like crazy" but also creates so many problems
having conditionals is good for something that keeps you alive, potions are the unconditional means of not performing the dead
either way, i'll let this simmer for a bit longer in here and then perform copy pasta into #suggestions-voting
ashen warren
So, Life Drain?
teal ibex
vaguely, yeah
sand umbra
Life Drain is a really neat example actually and I kinda wish more lifesteal weps worked like it
ashen warren
I always thought Life Drain was a really unique weapon
I didn’t find the drain effect potent enough though
tired haven
Life Drain is kinda wack but ig
cyan lagoon
teal ibex
i thought you just meant life drain from other games LOL
sand umbra
[[tgc:Life Drain]]
red stormBOT
sand umbra
it'd be a better example if it was actually good
tired haven
Regen from it feels really lacking, although that may be caused by magic nature that limits you from using it constantly
sand umbra
but I digress
teal ibex
oh yeah it's this but like. not torturously bad
hollow shell
@north fox Add a reason to your suggestion. You have to edit it in.
ashen warren
Yea that’s when I meant by “the drain wasn’t potent enough”
Making Vampire knives add a thicc boost to life regen sounds like it could work out a lot better
sand umbra
byeah
making lifesteal in general work more akin to Life Drain but not shit would be a wonderful change
teal ibex
well it's been 20 minutes so i'm posting it 
ashen warren
If it doesn’t get added to Calamity it should get added to EE
sand umbra
/plots in the corner
ashen warren
sand umbra
don't question me now, I am plotting
deviously planning my Next Immense Undertaking™️
that totally has nothing to do with lifesteal nope nuh-uh
tired haven
One thing that bothers me with regen stuff is that dots fully kill those
hollow shell
Why suggest that all lifesteals get reworked/replaced with new regen effects, and not suggest that currently existing lifesteal effects get replaced with semi-equivalent regen boosts?
sand umbra
debuff moment
tired haven
While lifesteal at least is able to compensate
teal ibex
i'm not sure i understand the difference in what you mean rover
ashen warren
I thought that was implied, Rover
ashen warren
I thought it would overhaul all of lifesteal to be regen boosts
hollow shell
When you say "each weapon could handle this differently", you list a bunch of new possibilities
sand umbra
well yes
but I'm fairly certain the implication is also that existing lifesteals get reworked to be more like life regen and less like the funny healing potion moment
feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, Hec
teal ibex
oh ye, those examples are simply there to express where the potential lies within each weapon. the idea there is to put forth that conditional lifesteal has a lot of breadth with design.
if lifesteal was just regen that happens when you dealt damage, it doesn't really have any identity anymore.
hollow shell
I see.
That's a lot more effort, then
teal ibex
it is certainly a very high effort suggestion
and i don't expect every weapon to be reworked
hollow shell
I approve of giving weapons more identity with how they handle the stuff but yeah
that's
a lot to change
teal ibex
honestly, my ideal outcome for this suggestion is less "let's change all of bloodflare tier" and more along the lines of "let's alter how we approach lifesteal moving forward and maybe change some hallmark examples"
i can make mention of that as a small addendum so it's not as daunting of a concept, tbh
hollow shell
Perhaps
ashen warren
By “Hallmark Example” he def doesn’t mean mostly Vampire Knives
hollow shell
I don't think we would change vanilla's 2 instances of direct lifesteal
ashen warren
Fair enough.
sand umbra
~~I think you should
but I don't call the shots here so~~
ashen warren
If I had to pick one to change now, and just one, it would be Mana Overloader
hollow shell
(with how many examples we have of it in Calamity, I was surprised to realize how little it comes up in vanilla.
That's why the Calamity wiki page for it lists vanilla mechanics, cuz it doesn't even need to be on the vanilla wiki)
ashen warren
The Vanilla wiki kind of just states that Vamp Knives and Spectre Hood bonus can do that and that’s it
hearty yew
@teal ibex Mana overloader is stupid, yes. Also, considering your suggestion lays out a pretty generic description of what life steal means, do you consider Fearmonger set bonus to count as life steal?
teal ibex
if we're being particular, no. the end result is extremely similar, but technically it does digress since it isn't scalar.
being scalar is part of the problem with lifesteal, which fearmonger armor doesn't actually allow
but they're both unconditional means of healing upon dealing damage, so they're strikingly similar anyway
teal ibex
all examples of life steal that i'm aware of scale based upon the damage you deal, especially relevant with crits
hearty yew
life steal scaling with damage output is actually one of its most problematic components, because it provides more survivability for glass cannon which defeats the point of glass cannon being what it is
teal ibex
yup, that's exactly what i mean. unless you're aware of weapons i'm not familiar with, damage is the means of calculating lifesteal in all cases (granted, i believe calamity has heavy restrictions on these effects so that the scaling can't actually do anything, but nonetheless)
and there are some where the scaling just doesn't matter because the steal is basically always 1
hearty yew
Calamity and the lifesteal cap basically enforce a max healing rate which you tend to hit instantly
teal ibex
so yeah, makeshift life regen
hearty yew
so all you get is bigger spikes
A lot of the reworked bloodflare gear and effects is flat heals for 1
So yes you're onto something
tired haven
Bloodflare weps are ones that always heal set amount
And imho that's the better approach even if majority calls the effect worthless
Yeah
hearty yew
The lifesteal cap is itself just a bandaid solution added by vanilla and reinforced by calamity
It was added because vamp knives and Spectre set were GOD in 1.2
teal ibex
yeah i recall the absolute nonsense that existed from those weapons
sand umbra
Vamp. Knives moment
hearty yew
Calamity reinforces it because it deems those effects were not sufficiently nerfed
teal ibex
and even that bandaid wasn't enough, because moonlord literally had to cancel the effect in its entirety
hearty yew
In fact not only does it make the cap harsher
It also makes vamp knives and spectre healing hit the cap faster
So it doubly nerfs the two vanilla life steal items on top of vanilla's instated cap and ML having "no life steal" as an "anti cheese" function from the get go
teal ibex
yeah, that's really wherein the problem lies. lifesteal makes the player unkillable, so you have to completely uproot it and cull it to the point that it can only heal you for X hp/s... which is life regen
hearty yew
Clearly life steal is the elephant in the room for all of terraria
It trivializes everything
tired haven
Well, the hardcap to turn lifesteal into regen isn't a necessity, but at least diminishing returns are required to not make it a disaster
teal ibex
true, but then people will get even more confused and think it's even more broken
tired haven
Can't be even more broken that it is rn honestly, when you can plain cut the lifesteal from yourself for 40 seconds by healing 1200 in one hit
sand umbra
lifesteal but every time you change it the community is bassboosted by 1 dB
teal ibex
oh yeah i meant broken as in not working
"why am i not getting as much lifesteal help"
in #bugs-read-pins probably
hearty yew
ah yes I remember that series of bugs
tired haven
40 seconds of not working is quite a lot 
hearty yew
where life steal could be disabled for minutes due to oversights in the counter
shit like that
radiant meadow
some life steal mechanics are flat
although many do depend on the damage you deal
teal ibex
yeah, the end result is the same due to caps though
or at least strikingly similar
in that you're usually operating on X hp/s gained, unless you get really wild spikes or drops here and there
hollow shell
Fearmonger isn't an example of what Hec is saying should be replaced, it's actually an example of what he's trying to change lifesteal to
A regen boost instead of direct heal
(sorry if a bit late to bring that up)
teal ibex
yeah, it's what i want the result to be. that being said "dealing damage" is something i'm trying to divert away from, since you're literally always doing that
hollow shell
But, yeah
all examples of direct lifesteal in the mod:
https://calamitymod.gamepedia.com/Lifestealing_Items
(hello GG)
teal ibex
some could still keep that, but i think most would benefit from actual conditions
hollow shell
Less than half of them are proportional to the damage you deal, actually
teal ibex
omg sword
fair but most alternatives summon a projectile, which i've never personally been a huge fan of
er, wait
the projectiles are the ones that home in on you aren't they
and then orbs are the ones you have to chase down?
hollow shell
It's not specified on this page
teal ibex
i see
hollow shell
There are some "summons a projectile" which very swiftly homes in on you, so it may as well be a direct heal
like Vampiric Talisman
teal ibex
yeah, that's what i was thinking. it's a bit muddier to comb through
hollow shell
then there are some which home in slowly on you and die after a femtosecond (Fungal Clump), thereby making it useless
sand umbra
Rare Elemental in a Bottle but you can't get the Heartreach buff
so she just helplessly throws green orbs into the air that do nothing
hollow shell
I'm glad the Heartreach functionality was added but I do think she could be more useful without it
sand umbra
if I have to waste an extra buff slot for a certain acc to be useful there's something horribly wrong
hollow shell
(Heartreach is useful in general tho)
sand umbra
(well yes but that's not the point)
(the point is that Rare Eyecandy in a Bottle, and in fact all accessories, should be useful on their own rather than requiring the use of an ultimately unrelated item alongside it)
(also, is Heartreach increasing grab range of all healing projectiles even listed on the potion, or is it just an obscure vanilla change that nobody can be reasonably expected to know about beforehand without going out of their way to do the research on the subject --- which you can't really expect most people that use Rare Elemental in a Bottle on its own in the first place to have done)
ashen warren
I didn’t know that so
sand umbra
I only know about it because I know much more than I probably need to about Calamity's balance
this includes constantly re-reading the vanilla changes page on the wiki
ashen warren
I play the mod a lot but for whatever reason I know very little about the balance
Largely because I get every weapon for a class in each tier, then use my favorite one
hollow shell
There are quite a few Calamity projectiles affected by Heartreach, apparently
Even if they already home in, Heartreach makes em home in faster
Including Fungal Clump's (!)
ashen warren
Oh wow
hollow shell
I don't know if I should note it on the vanilla changes page
proud isle
Rogue lifesteal is very op right n0w
hollow shell
because it doesn't actually change anything
proud isle
Now
ashen warren
Well you say it doesn’t change anything
But Fungal Clump’s projectiles like to despawn
sleek wadi
I'd love to know why Rare Elemental is still the way it is. Is it just that low priority, did Fab want to give HotE more than just damage/combat buffs, or?
hollow shell
No I mean it doesn't change any vanilla things
sand umbra
here's a better question
why is Rare Ele a HotE mat at all
it's the only Expert-exclusive piece of the HotE and needlessly locks the whole thing to Expert+
hollow shell
I think it was because it was repetitive/boring to have two pretty much identical sand elementals
and now one of them is the most unique of all the HotE elementals
sand umbra
well yes
but even then, there isn't much of a thematic fit at all
that's the second thing
ashen warren
I think it should be noted somewhere in the Calam wiki that it does this because it isn’t noted anywhere else as far as I’m aware
Also being unique and being viable are different
sand umbra
there is pointlessly a heavy favor towards Sand Elementals in what is supposed to be a representation of all of the elements
would it not be better to have another Elemental drop a different final piece of the accessory and make Rare Sand Eyecandy a unique acc that acts as a more capable Sand Elemental, but can't be used for HotE
ashen warren
Earth elemental acc when
sleek wadi
I think I have an idea for a more unique elemental, but it'd be a SIS so I won't put it in. First off, Rare Sand Elemental will be changed to a pet item. This elemental that will replace it will have its item in end of Pre-HM as that point is missing a HotE component. The elemental's whole thing is that it will give a different buff and maybe change function depending on biome.
hollow shell
So, remove the healing elemental entirely instead of improving them?
sleek wadi
Healing can still be a part of this new elemental's function, just as a heavy life regen buff or something.
ashen warren
It doesn’t really fit the sand elemental at all
sand umbra
personally I would
literally just improve Rare Ele in a Bottle but make her separate from the HotE
and add some other HotE piece if it really needs it
also I personally would change the way she heals to be more thematically appropriate 
hollow shell
healthnado
sand umbra
yes
sleek wadi
Sand Elemental is ground-based yes? How about enchanting some blocks around it to provide the healing effect.
sand umbra
neither of the Sand Elementals are ground-based, no
hollow shell
You could say that vanilla Sand Elemental is ground-based
they've got the hovering AI
and their tornados have to be placed on the ground
sand umbra
ah
ashen warren
Grounded and ground based are different in this case
Perhaps she could work similar to the stardust guardian, but she emits an aura where she’s placed that damages enemies that enter but grants you increased life regen when you enter.
intense theory crafting intensifies
frail mantle
reminds me i had an idea for a rare sand ele rework a while ago
might sugg that later if i can still be fucked by then
sleek wadi
The big part of why Rare Elemental is still the way she is is because unlike the other elementals, it isn't yet another damage increaser. So any rework/replacement needs to be more of a utility than anything else.
hearty yew
@sand umbra heartreach helping you grab healing projectiles is an undocumented vanilla feature (I don't even think the vanilla wiki lists it) and calamity duplicates it for SOME but not all of its healing projectiles
sand umbra
hollow shell
What does it affect aside from hearts, in vanilla?
sand umbra
that's even more confusing
hearty yew
vamp knives and nebula boosters I think
@tired haven was it you who I was talking about picking up nebula boosters from range
of course it's confusing thomas
It's all copy pasted code
because it's not centralized in any way and there's no quality control or standards, it 90% works 90% of the time
ashen warren
Heartreach affects nebula boosters?
frail mantle
heartreach also affects the rare sand ele healing shits iirc
hollow shell
That's what we've been talkin about Leon
sand umbra
yes
Heartreach affects Rare Sand Ele healing balls
ashen warren
Lel
tired haven
No idea
frail mantle
ah
sand umbra
and in fact that is basically the only way you ever get them to consistently function
tired haven
I only ever mentioned that their pickup speed is finite, thus you can outrun boosters
sand umbra
because not having Heartreach just makes it to the point where they might as well not exist
hearty yew
I can't stay in this discussion
sand umbra
a
radiant meadow
pretty sure anyways
ashen warren
So does Cadence have this effect too?
frail mantle
don't mind me, i'm just blind 🚶♂️
sand umbra
forbidden armor 'nado is grounded, yes
sand umbra
it's very aaaaaaaaaa
ashen warren
Redcode is very aaaaaaaaaa so I miss your point
ashen warren
Actually if you think about it, it’s very consistent
Hearts themselves are basically lifesteal
Both grant the green number that straight up increases life
The potion just attracts those more strongly
hollow shell
(Notably, the lifesteal page does list the spawning of hearts on enemy hits as a form of lifesteal)
(done by the Mutilator most prominently)
hollow shell
Yeah
sand umbra
doesn't Mutilator just obliterate Polter once it hits the health threshold for heartsplosions
sand umbra
ashen warren
Spark Mandrill be like: sugg writing noises
idea: ancient ice chunk upgrade
why: i think it would be cool, and also its used in the cosmic immaterializer which is odd since its such a early hm weapon so maybe having a harder to get upgraded version would be nice, perhaps since the ice claspers it summons resemble corruptors the upgraded version could look like some ice hive mind or somethin
sleek wadi
Rare Elemental Replacement (Note: This is too much of a SIS for my taste so it isn't going in #suggestions-voting)
Before we go into the replacement itself, I need to explain why it needs to be replaced in the first place. Rare Elemental locks HotE to expert+ for no apparent reason. It also has a redundant theming and source with Sand Elemental. Functionally it is also basically useless without Heartreach/Cadence potion which is never a good sign for an accessory. All this leads me to conclude that it isn't worth keeping around in HotE, so Rare Elemental will be changed into a pet item and keep its acquisition method.
The idea behind Rare Elemental however, being a purely utility based Elemental, is a neat idea worth keeping around. Replacement Elemental's main thing would be to give buffs depending on the current biome and would provide a constant Tesla Aura effect but without the damage. Such buffs would be things like a mining speed increase in cavern layer, honey in jungle, wet in ocean for underwater-based accessories, breath+light increase in abyss etc.. These buffs and the aura's size would get stronger once combined into HotE and at HotE's usual scaling thresholds.
Replacement Elemental would be acquired at either post-Perf/Hive or SG and would have its theming adjusted accordingly. If Perf/Hive, then it would be themed after the world evils. If SG, then it would have a slime theme and change appearence based on current biome. It would be placed here because HotE has a component at every major stage of the game except end of Pre-HM(Aero at start, Cloud/Sand at start of HM, Rose at mechs, Chaos at Plant, Bloom at Golem).
How does this look?
Wall of text btw
ashen warren
The only issue is that they’d have to make a new elemental for this
Meanwhile Earth elemental exists and is lonely
sleek wadi
Well yeah, it is a replacement. The reason I didn't suggest Earth Elemental replacing Rare is because EE would yet another damage elemental, just with armor crunch.
ashen warren
Fair, but at the same time, how do you derive healing from world evils?
ashen warren
Or even buffs if we’re going that route
sleek wadi
The evils are like an infection, taking nutrients and life from the world. So it would be like leeching from the thing you're trying to kill.
The evils also mutate the things that are in them, which could explain the adaptability of this elemental.
ashen warren
The evil biomes don’t really retain the properties of what they destroy though
They just turn it into more of the evil
I mostly just want slime elemental waifu
sleek wadi
Yeah the suggestion was made more so with SG in mind, but I figured the world evils could also work while better representing the world.
ashen warren
Well, the sugg just made me think of “if Biome Blade was an accessory instead of a weapon”
Like that just popped into my head
sand umbra
The reason I didn't suggest Earth Elemental replacing Rare is because EE would yet another damage elemental, just with armor crunch.
you can't see it but I'm shaking my head very violently right now
ashen warren
Explain why
sand umbra
everybody talks about how the Earth Elemental does at his job
but nobody talks about what the Earth Elemental does at his job
how do you know he isn't working hard to be a more defensive unit and try to protect the player more directly rather than attack
e.g. occasionally shielding the player to reduce damage taken or swiping away projectiles with that fatass axe of an arm on him
ashen warren
I like that idea, but at the same time most the elementals’ abilities relate to what they do when you fight them
All we ever see Earth elemental do is shot rocks that crunch armor
sand umbra
then give the Earth Elemental that ability too in higher difficulties
ashen warren
Perhaps all elementals should be given unique abilities
sand umbra
or something similar that nicely leads into it
also, personal thing but Cloud Elementals should absolutely have the ability to throw lightning bolts at the player and that should be how they attack as minions as well
instead of just bootlegged Sand Elemental tornadoes for the enemy and the funny haha dash for the minion
ashen warren
Sand elemental could be able to allow you to see more clearly through blizzard/sandstorm effects and grant immunity to Mighty Wind, and Brimmy could halve the durations of heat debuffs
sand umbra
I'm talking about augmenting the summons themselves to be more distinct, and by extension the Elementals they come from
ashen warren
I follow
sand umbra
hence my mentioning of e.g. Cloud Elementals yeeting lightning bolt-lookin' ass javelins or something
(could also nicely lead into a new weapon drop for them as well --- a lot of Calamity's normal enemies sorely lack unique loot that isn't strictly progression-necessary, in my opinion)
sleek wadi
Pearl of Enthrallment could inherit the ice shield from Siren.
sand umbra
Pearl of Enthrallment gains the ability to place the lure elsewhere
as both a distraction tool (it's the Pearl of Enthrallment for a reason) and a callback to its old functionality
the lure takes aggro off of its summoner and charms affected enemies, making them easier to damage and/or less damaging
sleek wadi
Though the big risk with all this might be balancing visibility on and off in HotE. Giving all these effects to the elementals might start to overpower the stat increase in visibility off.
sand umbra
implying all of these effects would be inherited by HotE
HotE is already stronk enough as it is, to be quite blunt
but the materials that make it up don't have too terribly much going for them
ashen warren
I personally think that HotE should be exclusively the elementals, like the way Profaned Soul Artifact is (that’s a donor item I know, but)
sand umbra
Eyesandy tornadoes die after 3 hits before ML
Rare Eyesandy needs Heartreach to be viable
Cloud Elemental just sorta dashes and that's it, you already have multiple other minions that can do all that and more
Brimbo has a ton of design potential but she just sorta fires lol fireballs
Siren Lure is part of Siren-Levi drop pool --- and we all know how big a point of contention that entire set is
the rest of the Stones could arguably use more unique effects as well (staring at you, Cryo Stone That Doesn't Do Anything Related To Cold) but my focus particularly lies with the minions that collectively make up the HotE
and the entities they come from
ashen warren
My point being, make them more unique and then make them the whole accessory instead of a toggleable and honestly minor bonus
sand umbra
also can we make HotE part of the Elemental set
ashen warren
why is it not
sand umbra
I honestly couldn't tell you if I tried
it fits the bill for being the Elemental set acc perfectly but instead it's just "lol post-LC"
sleek wadi
Not part of the elemental set because haha statis ruins everything yet again.
sand umbra
Statis' moment
ashen warren
What’s statis got to do with this?
sand umbra
[[Statis' Curse]]
red stormBOT
sleek wadi
First it came for build diversity, now it booted out HotE of the Elemental line which is actually just 2 accessories, hardly a line
sand umbra
that's. the wrong tier
I meant being part of the post-ML Elemental set
not one of the post-DoG mega accs
but like also Statis' Curse just comes along and says
"hey BITCH"
"you want THREE extra slots AND shadowflame memes on top of being able to stack with my material acc?"
sleek wadi
Also can Statis accessories be nerfed to not overshadow literally every other accessory option summoner's might want, that'd be great.
Other builds at Yharon 2 got like, 2 class accessories tops and library of neat general options and summoner is like "yeah I got 3 of this"
tired haven
Maybe, but it's very likely to cause summoner to fall apart just because have to work with great class balancing
cough
Honestly I just wanted statis blessing to not cripple everything in sight with temporal sadness at least
sand umbra
why does Blessing even proc Temp Sadness
tired haven
To slow down stuff
I guess at least. Bosses aren't affected and mobs were the least of summoner's concerns in first place
sleek wadi
Why does Blessing provide 3 slots on top of all that, should provide 2. Then at least once Yharon 2 rolls around it is a straight downgrade to DSR.
tired haven
That's also fair ig, although might lead to curse being nerfed to 2 as well, since there is nothing for 3rd slot to come from
sleek wadi
Curse is post-ML right? The 3 slots might be justified as just a natural scaling of everything.
tired haven
^
sleek wadi
Huh. Alright slap an unholy essence in it and call it a day
tired haven
One solution is to give the first shadowflame a slot
sand umbra
give it a use at all past Shadowmeme iirc
anywho time to sugg that Temp Sadness be culled from Statis' line
tired haven
ashen warren
Where does Temp Sadness even come from
tired haven
Nothingness
sand umbra
mfw sugg has happened but hasn't reached the threshold
this is truly a pensive moment
sand umbra
les do it
tired haven
btw le funny example of colored name not being 100% pass
ashen warren
Coulda sworn I starred dat mug. Time to scroll for five minutes
pulsar jay
what's the time period you have to get 120 stars and have your suggestion sent
karmic stone
When a mod+ notices
pulsar jay
so basically any time as long as a mod sees it
tired haven
Yeah, kinda
pulsar jay
also wow very in deph and good suggestion
queen delta
although if your suggestion gets to a star threshold 30+ days ago, itll probably go unnoticed
pulsar jay
I'm already close and it's only been about half a day
though a bunch of people suggested stuff
i guess it'll vanish
but maybe the donor will just ask for the suggestion to go in actually
since he/she liked it
ashen warren
Ultimately the donor gets to make the decision regardless of the sugg iirc
karmic stone
Bluecheck iirc
indigo fog
wait do people use hair dye
also i think there was another hair dye sugg but that one was for flight time and not ripper bars
wait nevermind there is a ripper bar hair dye suggestion
civic pond
huh
safe kiln
Bruh
Still
This was a random Idea I had when playing the mod
Or like an overall dye
hollow shell
Rage & Adren hair dye make sense thematically, considering the existing hair dyes
The flight time hair dye is straight up useful
or, would be
delicate marsh
Adrenaline hair dye sounds like the galaxy brain way to figure out if your adrenaline is full.
civic pond
there's a lot of potential
pulsar jay
the donor actually did approve so
also adren/rage hair dye
is a great idea
flight time hair dye also seems useful
frosty dagger
OOA wep testing results are in
I'm skipping wave one because all you get are sentries and there are no other sentries then. All tests started right when night began, no reforges or buffs, on death with no rage/adren. This will make kill times significantly slower than normal. I made the dear basic to make this take as least space as possible.
Wave two, against Clonamitas, gear is Daedelus armor, and a normal emblem and amalgated brain as damage accessories.
Ranger:
(OOA) Phantom Pheonix with unholy arrows: got first brother to .8%, about a third of cloneamitas total health.
Megashark with clorophyte bullets: Got cloneamitas to 14.4%.
Barinaudical with unholy arrows: 5 min and 14 sec.
This means barinaudical does about 6x mode damage than phantom pheonix.
Melee:
(OOA) Ghastly glaive: not viable, is true melee.
(OOA) Sleepy octopod: not viable, is true melee.
(OOA) Brand of the inferno: not viable, is true melee.
There are no viable options for melee from OOA.
Mage:
(OOA) tomb of infinite wisdom: second brother to 62.6%.
SHPC: 8 min 2 sec.
Infernal rift: brother reborn, catastrophe on 63.7%, cataclysm on 82.1%.
Gleeming magnolia: brother reborn, catastrophe on 93.9%, cataclysm on 98.9%
Summoner:
(OOA) Ballista: 220 DPS.
(OOA) Flamburst: 260 DPS.
(OOA) explosive: not viable, can't consistently place under target.
(OOA) lightning aura: not viable, doesn't move.
Cryogenic staff: 750 DPS.
I didn't test against a boss, to acward.
Rouge:
There are no rouge OOA weps for wave two
radiant meadow
why would you use unholy arrows?
for phantom phoenix, I'm fairly sure you'd get better dps with holy arrows or icicle arrows
for barinautical, I think cursed arrows have higher base dmg
and pretty sure chloro shotbow is the best ranger weapon for clone that outclasses all of the options you listed
sand umbra
Chloro Shotbow makes everything else irrelevant
it's the Aerial Bane of post-mech loadouts
fuckin' 4-arrows-at-once lookin' ass
frosty dagger
Wave three: tested against pbg with ataxia armor, a basic emblem, void of extinction, and the best class specific accessory for each class tested.
Ranger:
(OOA) aerial bane: 5 min, 24 sec.
Conference Call: 4 min, 12 sec.
Hellborn: 6 min, 48 sec.
Melee:
(OOA) flying dragon: 12 min, 13 sec.
(OOA) sky dragons fury: 7 min, 35 sec.
Tyrant Yharims ultisword: 7 min, 58 sec.
Fallen paladins hammer: 9 min, 40 sec.
Flame scythe: 5 min, 23 sec.
Actually aiming all of these were very difficult for all but flame scythe, I had to get really close to pbg to do damage.
Mage:
(OOA) Betseys wrath: 8 min, 1 sec.
Laser machine gun: 4 min, 42 sec.
Wingman: 3 min, 36 sec.
Summoner:
(OOA) ballista: 580 DPS.
(OOA) Flamburst: 640 DPS.
(OOA) explosive: not viable can't consistently place below target.
(OOA) lightning aura: not viable, doesn't move.
Hive pod: 1220 DPS.
Spike crag: 740 DPS, though testing it was really acward.
Rouge.
There are no wave three rouge OOA weps.
frosty dagger
If you line it up right it does solid of damage
Did you read the conditions of testing
frail mantle
either your arena has too many platforms or you're using the Aerial Bane horribly wrong
sand umbra
Death has the same stats as Rev now
so really you're just giving reforgeless, buffless Rev kill times with extra steps
frosty dagger
With the conditions mentioned to keep it as even as possible
Not three adren vs one
sand umbra
the concept that Aerial Bane takes any longer than 2-2.5 minutes on PBG is one I refuse to believe
frosty dagger
That's not even at all
brittle nexus
Were you also fighting them on the surface?
frosty dagger
Yes
brittle nexus
they enrage there
frosty dagger
Really?
sand umbra
PBG's enrage does not at all make her tankier
frosty dagger
I've always done that
sand umbra
there's still no reason for Aerial Bane of all things to take 5 goddamn minutes
frosty dagger
The more you know I guess
I did
There isn't much else I can say about it
That's how long it took
If you want me to do it again I can
sand umbra
I want you to do it again with average gear
frosty dagger
But the result will probably be very similar
Ok, I'll do it with straight menacing, unreal, but still no rage/adren
sand umbra
I mean it's always assumed that testing is doen ripperless
rippers are extremely dumb to balance against even after all the adjustments they've gone through
frosty dagger
If I were to make a sug out of this with the evidence I would need three posts
Ill do it in a bit
frail mantle
could also probably put the results in a doc
sand umbra
yeah
frosty dagger
Yea I'll do that
radiant meadow
why would you use no buffs?
and no reforges?
but also, conference call is an riv 
and both conclave crossfire and conference call are getting moved next update anyways
hollow shell
as is Hellborn (an RIV)
hollow shell
Storm is the crafted one
hollow shell
aight
sand umbra
Flying Dragon is like usable-but-not-fantastic in vanilla
in Calamity it just straight-up dies because stat increases + faster shit + much better options being made available to the player
radiant meadow
it has tile phasing which makes it decent for the lunar events
since tile phasing is less common in vanilla
sand umbra
yeah
the ability to ignore tiles is also much less of a luxury in Calamity because basically everything and its DoG has it
in vanilla, it's at least something resembling rare
so Flying Dragon can be useful in that regard when combined with typical box strats
...buuuuuuut Flying Dragon also takes going through the objectively second worst event in the game to get even in Calamity so like
so not only is it horrendously outclassed by Calamity's wonky power scale
it requires going through an event that gets no new Clam content and is already horrible to go through
in short: Flying Dragon stinks, go for Chaotrix instead, it's chad
pulsar jay
what's the worst event if OOA is second worst?
indigo fog
frost legion?
pulsar jay
oh
yeah it's completely useless
all they do is track snow
thorium fixes it but Calamity completely ignores it and the event is just trash
sand umbra
Frost Legion is emptiest event
but not worst
not by a long shot
it's got a lot of problems but it also has a lot of potential
no, I'll tell you what the worst event is
[[tgc:Lunar Events]]
red stormBOT
radiant meadow
pillars moment
sand umbra
for the express reason that they are necessary to progress
you literally cannot summon ML without going through this shitfest at least once
gusty geode
This is what happens when the final boss isn't the final boss anymore
The over-the-top event leading up to it loses its impact
frosty dagger
Btw I am aware of the two rare variants, but there was no other options in class setups that wasn't directly post golem, but I'll make a note of it when I make the sug
pulsar jay
also ml is a trash boss in general
sand umbra
it's a much worse issue in Calamity because yes, ML is far from the final boss with Calamity's progression
pulsar jay
his theme is not climatic, and you beat him just by running in one direction and occasionally flying up
sand umbra
so suddenly you have an event jammed right in the middle of a progression point with tons of potential and which is necessary to progress
radiant meadow
most of the fragment crafts are pretty good though at least
radiant meadow
I cannot speak for Daybreak
sand umbra
and furthermore Solar gets one really-good-ish craft
and one craft that's a total meme
radiant meadow
lahzar deus memes :)
frosty dagger
I should have used buff thought that's my B, I would rather not go through reforging all that stuff when the outcome will stay proportional.
pulsar jay
srollers take 75% of your hp in one hit, corites leave you completely open to them while also dealing like 100 damage but nonono you can't dodge becasue if you do you get one shot by unavoidable worm!
sand umbra
yeah that's right fuck you Daybreak you're a throwing weapon you're not a melee weapon
become an actual spear and then maybe we'll talk >:(
radiant meadow
srollers use giant tortoise AI
pulsar jay
all giant tortiose ai enemies are terrible
not because of their ai being their ai
but because of the places they put those ai
sand umbra
Underground Jungle but everything is a tortoise
pulsar jay
the environments where enemies with that ai live make it impossible to focus on
like sure i could focus on srollers if I wasn't getting vored by corites
radiant meadow
giant shellies also use giant tortoise AI
pulsar jay
sure i could go hit that tortise to stop it
radiant meadow
Drakanians are like the only normal enemy in solar pillar
pulsar jay
selenians aren't scary
radiant meadow
why drakanians? idfk