suggestions-discussion

[unreal viper]

Lower the hp on some of the bosses.

[left crest]

decrease boss hp but increase damage?

[quick ice]

you nerf the bosses, which would make the easier bosses completely negligible

[wooden wedge]

what bosses and for what reason?

[green pumice]

when boss hp was low

everything died in 3 seconds

[left crest]

^

[green pumice]

[left crest]

ye I don't think BR needs a nerf

[green pumice]

it was litterally not at all a challenge

[distant gyro]

6 minutes boss rush was a dark time in history

[unreal viper]

You don't have to nerf all bosses hp, just some of them. Like crabulon and providence.

[cyan lagoon]

Your saying that as if everyone is experienced, reb

Not everyone can easily get into it compared to those who spent hours if not days perfecting every boss

[sand umbra]

why does everyone want the Yo-Yo Bag to become part of the fucking Ele Gauntlet

[green pumice]

who's reb

beacuse oracle is funny

[sand umbra]

it's already beyond fucking broken as it is

[distant gyro]

because lol melee

[queen sail]

Because yOyO iS mELeE, tom

[left crest]

because azathoth is funnier

[sand umbra]

literally explode kirby

[hallow kraken]

Hey again, what’s with the two part sug

[green pumice]

ok

[queen sail]

Thank relogic for

Well

[distant gyro]

it's literally because lol melee

[left crest]

yeye

[queen sail]

Logic

[unreal viper]

Because there is not post-moon lord yoyo accesory.

[sand umbra]

there is

[hallow kraken]

good

[sand umbra]

it's called the Yo-Yo Bag

[queen sail]

It’s called yoyo bag

[distant gyro]

the yoyo bag is the accessory

[left crest]

yoyo bag is so good that it's honestly post ml tier

[queen sail]

Pretty sure having two yoyos out at once is good

[distant gyro]

you can't get anymore broken than effectively doubling your dps with 2 yoyos

[sand umbra]

^

[left crest]

literally over doubles yoyo dps alone, if we disregard iframes

[green pumice]

here have 200% dps on funny yoyo

[queen sail]

Also somebody update The Oracle recipe to actually make sense please :pensive_rick:

[sand umbra]

Bag is the reason Terrarian's never gotten its much-needed buff

[distant gyro]

the yoyo bag can not be upgraded ever until this issue is solved

[left crest]

terrarian is dummy bad item

[distant gyro]

since it would ultimately bust yoyos, see also: calamity yoyobag b***

[queen sail]

“Terrarian is omega cool bc it fires energy yoyos!!!!”

[left crest]

oh god that mod

[queen sail]

...which would be nice if it didn’t have immunity frames

[sand umbra]

Calamity Y*** B** B*****

[queen sail]

Ah yes

[sand umbra]

the forbidden one

[zealous ridge]

okay but like

[queen sail]

Yoyo bag buff

[distant gyro]

the forbidden

[queen sail]

Aka lazy

[zealous ridge]

how would we solve this "issue"?

[queen sail]

The issue of no post ml yoyo acc?

[zealous ridge]

no, the fact that yoyo bag is broken

[queen sail]

I don’t know

[sand umbra]

the only way to solve the issue is to rework the Yo-Yo Bag entirely to give an actual effect

something unique to the line itself

[queen sail]

If we adjust yoyo bag we’ll probably get smited by thousands for “ruining yoyo playthroughs”

[zealous ridge]

but changing vanilla items completely is ech

[sand umbra]

something unique to the subclass it boosts
something that generally has to do with what yo-yos are used for in real life, mayhaps?

[green pumice]

oh no my subclass playthrough!!11!1!!1!1!1!

[queen sail]

Gotta follow the happydays way :picardia:

[sand umbra]

I'm not flexing, you're flexing

[zealous ridge]

well then there's no solution, then? if we don't do anything, its broken, and if we do something, someones gonna get mad

or you know

[queen sail]

People wanna feel like gods ig

[zealous ridge]

okay

[queen sail]

Pensive rick

[zealous ridge]

something calamity appeals to too much, tbh

[sand umbra]

time to push EE Bag for every major mod in existence starting with Cal

a

/s

[queen sail]

Get smited for trying to adjust a game infamous for its questionable design choices

Welcome to the family friendly Terraria community

[zealous ridge]

well, there are valid reasons for not liking some of the things calamity does to vanilla

[sand umbra]

okay so like

[zealous ridge]

but that's besides the point, the yoyo bag kind of has to be designed around

[sand umbra]

...this feels like wings but for yo-yos

[queen sail]

I can get past legitimate criticisms for vanilla changes but, like

[zealous ridge]

that's because its just power creep

[queen sail]

Saying vanilla does it better is a bit

[sand umbra]

please don't

I don't want to go down this path

[zealous ridge]

yeah, we dont have to talk about vanilla changes here

[sand umbra]

if I get started on this I won't stop for like an hour

[queen sail]

Oh yeah remember when wings were a justified endgame thing

Instead of a meta

[zealous ridge]

yeah okay

[queen sail]

Well regardless

[zealous ridge]

so really, i ask what the issue is here regarding yoyo bag?

specifically, i mean

[sand umbra]

the Yoyo Bag doubles your DPS with every yo-yo that isn't programmed horribly (a.k.a. every Calamity yo-yo) and basically every yo-yo ever has to be balanced around it, rather than the other way around

most Hardmode yo-yos absolutely suck without it making it so you either pack it and deal retardedly high damage or don't pack it and just tickle the enemy to death

[queen sail]

Thomas do you mean the yoyos that have no gimmick

Like don’t shoot proj or smth

[sand umbra]

I say "most Hardmode yo-yos" quite literally

this extends to Calamity's post-ML throws, too

Bag is quite literally a necessity for yo-yo enthusiasts everywhere
for all the wrong reasons

[zealous ridge]

is nerfing vanilla yoyos not an option, to make them more centered around the yoyo bag to be successful (but not broken)?

[sand umbra]

THAT'S ALREADY THE WHOLE PROBLEM

why am I balancing a bunch of shit around this one item

I should instead be balancing Bag around the rest of its subclass' shit

this is the same issue that goes with wings, where everything else is balanced around them rather than the other way around

[zealous ridge]

so is it calamity's fault that this problem isn't rectified?

or, to restate

is calamity responsible for patching these balance problems?

[sand umbra]

this is a vanilla issue that dates back to...I think it was 1.2

[queen sail]

I mean how do you fix it without getting smited more

[zealous ridge]

you can... not fix it and design around it

[sand umbra]

both with wings and with Yoyo Bag from 1.3 onward

[hallow kraken]

see the REAL problem with yoyo bag is that it’s an immediate upgrade to yoyo glove

[sand umbra]

oh yeah, as if Glove alone wasn't busted

you can instantaneously combine it with String and a Counterweight for Bag

[queen sail]

One of which offers absolutely no benefits but it looks cool

[tepid root]

counterweights

[sand umbra]

granted counterweights aren't exactly

useful

[queen sail]

Counterweights are one of the biggest brain design choices i’ve seen tbh

Yes, here’s an extra projectile that circles around you with a tiny hitbox and is really slow

[sand umbra]

Counterweights are a cool idea but in their current state they do absolutely nothing in practice

a

[queen sail]

I don’t think counterweights work like that either tbh

I’m not a yoyo enthusiast tho so

[lost agate]

the problem with yoyo bag is that it randomly just doubles your dps (if not more because of counterweight) while shit like 25% extra dmg on an accesory is already considered glass cannon

thats the whole gist of it

[sand umbra]

byeah

[lost agate]

like, its as if bows were nerfed to fuck and only were viable by using archer potion

[zealous ridge]

not the best example

[lost agate]

it kinda is

[zealous ridge]

i would have chosen magic quiver myself

but okay

[lost agate]

archer potion or quiver whatever works

[sand umbra]

all Hardmode bows get nuked and can only be viable with Magic Quiver

[zealous ridge]

thing is archer is temporary and a potion

[sand umbra]

have fun

[zealous ridge]

but okay

[lost agate]

point is that those type of weapons become shit without smth specific

which is ass design to say the least

[sand umbra]

[zealous ridge]

alright

but uh, solutions are hard to come across

[gusty geode]

Having to balance a bunch of stuff around a single item?
NEVER HEARD THAT BEFO-

[zealous ridge]

considering its a vanilla item that has a MAssive effect on the viability of yoyos

[queen sail]

I mean

[sand umbra]

that doesn't really make it any harder to get a solution goin'

[queen sail]

This was a class more or less added because Red was a yoyo enthusiast

[zealous ridge]

well, enlighten me then

what do you think the best solution is?

[distant gyro]

nolike

onedrop product placements

[zealous ridge]

[sand umbra]

the best solution would be to literally just have EE's Bag rework complete with trick system get a promotion to every major good mod ever

but that's probably not happening so let's think of the next best thing

[distant gyro]

it's a source for red to collab with onedrop lul

[gusty geode]

Remove yoyos

[distant gyro]

when half vanilla yoyos have the onedrop mark

[queen sail]

Yoyos have potential to be really cool and interesting weapons and ingame they’re literally just a manaless magic missile

[zealous ridge]

you mean with things like tricks, kirby?

hmm

[queen sail]

See Yoyo Kirby or Sophie from P5S for details

[sand umbra]

• make Bag a normal accessory for yo-yos that just gives damage and range and whatnot + triggers counterweights, rebalancing yo-yos to match
• make Bag later in progression than Glove and make each do something unique that isn't two yo-yos at once meme
• other things maybe? most of my Bag contemplation is just "how can I make trick system better" so like

[lost agate]

I mean

Yoyo bag could be given a dmg penalty probably

[zealous ridge]

ooh that might help things

[lost agate]

So 2 weaker yoyos

But that means rebalancing all yoyos

[zealous ridge]

well yeah

but isn't that what we want? for yoyos to be better without the bag?

i know its extra work

but that's what ive been gathering

[lost agate]

I dont care much at this point

[zealous ridge]

[lost agate]

If someone wants to do all that, go for it

[gusty geode]

While we're at it can we see what went wrong with yoyos with the eventual goal of softening the melee speed cap

Was something about them breaking if it went any higher iirc?

[queen sail]

Yeah

[zealous ridge]

yes

[sand umbra]

what went wrong with yo-yos is that Red made them a joke

[queen sail]

They glitch out

[sand umbra]

they were literally just a marketing strategy and weren't given much thought past that

it's infuriating

thank you for coming to my TED talk

🛫

[queen sail]

Like I said before yoyos can make really interesting weapons and red made them magic missile clones

And off he goes

🔫 aims at plane

[gusty geode]

Would it be possible to hard-cap the distance a yoyo projectile can be from the player?

[lost agate]

That bug was fixed already

No need

[gusty geode]

So
What else is wrong

[hollow shell]

@quick ice I wouldn't describe that as a QoL change
I'd describe it as a consistency change

[quick ice]

changed it, thanks for the feedback

[keen geyser]

why should boss rush be shorter

I don't get it

[frail mantle]

yea

[keen geyser]

it's an optional challenge in which you fight every boss superbuffed

[frail mantle]

like, it's meant to be the hardest event in the game

[hollow shell]

Thanks

[keen geyser]

also aren't those two suggestions in one

[hollow shell]

It is

@unreal viper Don't have two separate suggestions in one message

Send one of them as a separate message.
Also, elaborate more on each one. They're quite short.

[unreal viper]

@hollow shell Sure.

[hollow shell]

Thanks

[toxic kettle]

There we have the first suggestion complaining about the RoD nerf

I knew we didn't have to wait long

[hollow shell]

tbf
I don't think we're balancing around using it as a travel option
It's almost entirely boss fight balance

(asking it to be restricted to Rev+ is a bit hhmmn tho yeah)

That's good reasoning, sand

[unreal viper]

Thanks.

[keen nebula]

I added the Rev+ thing so that you know that there is a teleportation nerf by hovering over the Revengeance tooltip, instead of finding it out the hard way during a boss fight

Additionally, Rev+ has those really punishing strikes from bosses that justify the nerf.

[hollow shell]

Add that to your suggestion, that it'll be easier to communicate to the player.

Alternatively, you could ask for it to be added to RoD's tooltip

[distant gyro]

eh

"To make the change consistent I'd just apply it to all modes honestly.
Normal could use a little more challenge as well tbh
Since, right now, Normal mode has fallen from grace to be called the "easy mode" by many"

• Fab

[keen nebula]

That does seem like a better idea.

[queen sail]

Because expert includes shit that normal doesn’t and the bosses are a decent challenge ig

And in normal most bosses are

EoC charge ain’t intimidating in that one

[lost agate]

Normal wasnt easy mode when the weapons werent memebow tiers of power

But as updates passed stronger and stronger stuff and appeared and uh yeah

[sand umbra]

[mild steppe]

@terse sundial Does my suggestion break any rules? Sorry if so, I did read them.
"yharims insignia upgrades into the elemental gauntlet" Well yeah I did mention integrating the Yoyo Bag effect into both of these two

[terse sundial]

check the frequently suggested category in the suggestions doc in the pins here

those suggestions don't need to be made again

[hollow shell]

Yeah, adding Yoyo Bag to Elemental Gauntlet is in the Suggestion Don'ts

because of its past frequency and also past rejection
Devs don't want that.

[sand umbra]

it's a Frequently Suggested

[mild steppe]

Oh, heck. I didn't expect this to be already suggested.

[sand umbra]

although it should also say "also a Shouldn't" imo iirc tbh ngl

byeah, things regarding making Yoyo Bag build into Ele Gauntlet line have been sugg'd in the past

all have been rejected for the simple reason of how stupid Bag is even on its own

[mild steppe]

Ah, kind of a shame. Imo it could fit with a small nerf to its damage output from the counterweights.

[sand umbra]

the counterweights aren't the problem at all

[zealous ridge]

its the double yoyo, yeah

[sand umbra]

the problem comes with the fact that the Bag itself literally doubles your DPS with that second throw

[mild steppe]

Second throw? Not sure what do you mean by that, can you elaborate? :\

[forest fern]

why rare item variants cannot be used to make new accessories

[frail mantle]

Yoyo Glove

[mild steppe]

Probably because how busted they are. But imo, they should be usable as their regular counterparts in crafting.

Oh right, I almost forgot it makes you throw two Yoyos.

[hollow shell]

lol

[mild steppe]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[tired haven]

Yoyo bag doubles yoyos, yea

[mild steppe]

It would probably be fair-ish if there was an option to integrate the Yoyo bag into another item with the drawback of dealing only 25% damage with the second yoyo

[tired haven]

That's usually the main reason to use it

Also hmm

I doubt much will choose that

[mild steppe]

So you could choose what do you want to use: A shittier yoyo or a wasted accessory slot

Honestly, I would as I don't care as much about the damage output

Or 50% if 25% is overkill.

Then again, if the devs think this is not a good idea then they're probably right, they definitely know better /s

[sly lily]

So i guess i will make the stupid question

Should we suggest rolling back Chaos state change? And increase instead its damage

[sand umbra]

I have something else in mind, if you'll give me a moment

[sly lily]

I think that locking an item is mildly overstepping on the vanilla modifications

[sand umbra]

although I suppose some backlash on this was inevitable

[hollow shell]

We're not locking the item

We nerfed it

I dunno where you got the lock from unless I missed something

[sly lily]

Chaos state is now "cant use it"

It is a lock

[hollow shell]

I see, yeah
did miss that

(I thought you were talking about progression)

[sly lily]

Nono

XD

[sand umbra]

I can sorta understand it, but also...

Allow the Rod of Discord to be used under Chaos State while a boss is not alive.

❔
To make the Rod actually even remotely worthwhile as anything that isn't a free boss-fighting teleport.

...there was a major casualty in the making of this nerf and that was the utility RoD possesses as an exploration tool rather than a boss-fighting item

[sly lily]

Nope, it should be available in bosses

Just make chaos state more damaging

[sand umbra]

...where did you get the idea I wanted it to not be available for bosses

[sly lily]

Increase the damage in post moonlord

[sand umbra]

RoD getting more punishing while a boss is alive is fine

[sinful violet]

Huge brain would be to make another item that just doesn't work during bosses.

But acts as old RoD

[sly lily]

Available as in, able to selfharm

[sand umbra]

there is literally no necessity to make a second item

I presume CanUseItem is already used for the existing nerf, it's just a matter of extending that check to see if a boss is alive as well as checking for Chaos State

[sinful violet]

Yeah I'm kidding, it's already done by cosmolight etc

[sly lily]

Wait, why not just increase chaos state damage IN bosses

[sand umbra]

[sly lily]

And return RoD back to what it was

[gusty geode]

Because people can heal

[zealous ridge]

a brawl is surely brewing

[sand umbra]

no

[sly lily]

Healing cooldowns?

[sand umbra]

there is no Super Smash Bros. Brawl here

[hollow shell]

Make RoDing while Chaos State'd reduce your HP to 1

iirc

[zealous ridge]

[sand umbra]

rover pls

[mild steppe]

rover no

[sly lily]

Or add to chaos state also healing reduction

[mild steppe]

So Chaos State lasts 10 seconds now? I think that's a bit too much.

[sly lily]

10 AND cant use it

[sand umbra]

...holy shit I had an idea

[mild steppe]

"Several people are typing..."

[gusty geode]

14 hours
It took 14 hours for a "revert RoD" discussion to start
Honestly a lot longer than expected

[sand umbra]

what if Chaos State, during a boss fight, prevents the use of healing items

[zealous ridge]

like a shorter potion sickness?

[sand umbra]

yes

[mild steppe]

Nah.

[sly lily]

Exactly

[sand umbra]

unique Potion Sickness-esque proc

[mild steppe]

10 seconds isn't a lot of time and you could time your Chaos State so that you don't feel the drawback.

[sly lily]

You mean, strategy?

[zealous ridge]

but i think that's the point

[mild steppe]

Easy strategy.

[zealous ridge]

youve got to use it with that in mind

[sly lily]

Dodging 10 seconds SCal

Then heal

Then potion sickness

[mild steppe]

SCal is hard but not as hard as people make it be...

[sly lily]

It is an example

DoG walls

Yharons rain of death

[sand umbra]

anywho, unless anyone has any actual objections to the sugg I posted here for feedback, it's going live

[zealous ridge]

well i have objections but theyre about RoD in general

[hollow shell]

Well uh

[zealous ridge]

so i think its okay to post

[hollow shell]

I think you should prolly save it till later

considering Berber just posted a RoD sugg

[gusty geode]

The idea behind the RoD nerf was to make it less of a get-out-of-jail-free card
If you're surviving til Chaos State wears off
Then you're doing exactly what the devs wanted you to when they nerfed it

[sand umbra]

alrighty

time to save this for a month later because god knows nobody'll shut up about it for the next few weeks once spoiler rule wears off

🛫

[sly lily]

But chaos state is already punishing

[mild steppe]

Eh, I still think it's a rather mild consequence for using Chaos State.

[sly lily]

You get hurt and have to heal usually

That's why I would prefer an increased damage and short potion sickness

[gusty geode]

Increased damage taken means nothing if you don't get hit
Abusing it decreases your odds of getting hit
Punishment is invalidated

[zealous ridge]

hmm

[sly lily]

But isnt that the same if you didnt get hit anyway?

[mild steppe]

Useful for Death/Arma, not for regular players.

[sly lily]

You already get hurt by chaos state

[mild steppe]

I'd rather take a hit than 1/4 of my HP for dodging that hit

[zealous ridge]

if you dont initially have chaos state you dont take damage, right?

[mild steppe]

You don't

Talking about Chaos State.

[sly lily]

Exactly and then having to endure and not heal with -25%hp

Or more if increased

[zealous ridge]

but you won't have -25% hp if you used it initially? im lost

the healing penalty and endurance, i understand

but the -25% hp thing assumes you already have chaos state

[sly lily]

Yeah you still can use RoD

[zealous ridge]

ye ik

[sly lily]

Pass chaos state and dodge again

It is taking the feature of risk/reward

Do you take the sure damage of chaos state or try dodging?

That makes it more exciting

[zealous ridge]

so it isn't the teleport that's really the problem

[sly lily]

Now it is a lock and you only have 1 choice

Which actually? Takes pressure off the player

In a way the nerf makes you able to focus more on the fight

Because you dont weight the option

[zealous ridge]

so is the rod lock a good thing or a bad thing? are you just laying out the options here?

[sly lily]

It takes options and in a way is better

It streamlines

Play bullet hells

Do you bomb a way of bullets or try dodging through?

It is a resource to take account, in the case of chaos state, your hp and recovery

So that is why I instead propose that if a change is made back, is increasing the HP intake and adding a potion sickness

After all if your body is unstable between dimensions a potion isnt going to pass through right? /excuse

[tired haven]

/relogic

[sly lily]

I dont make the mod, but it is just logical that taking out features isnt going to be well received by the majority of players, it is taking the toy instead of a mild change

[tired haven]

Oh, indeed

[gusty geode]

Healing besides potions also exists
Including the ridiculous regen, automatic heals, extra lives, etc of the late-game

[tired haven]

That actually is relevant for any nerf ever

[gusty geode]

You're not gonna be concerned with losing a bit of health that you can probably get back before Chaos State even wears off

[sly lily]

Well, then should also a regen nerf be added while on chaos state?

Like with Fab alcohols?

[tired haven]

Eeh

[gusty geode]

So
You're suggesting blocking all forms of healing in exchange for a short-range teleport

[sly lily]

And damage

[tired haven]

The main trouble actually is that you can avoid hits as whole with the rod (or rod spam, or rod tactical offcooldown usage, whatever)

That's also a concern for nohitters, albeit not most important

[gusty geode]

How exactly is there only one option anyway

[tired haven]

The question is the following: how to make 6 seconds freeoutofjail card not that appealing to use constantly

As of rn it breaks quite a few fights

[pulsar jay]

does it really though?

[sly lily]

Damage+potion sickness+1hp regen

[tired haven]

If titanium with 30 seconds free card did, you can bet

[sly lily]

Titanium is 30 secs? Didnt know that

[tired haven]

30 seconds cooldown

[sly lily]

And was locked? Why?

[tired haven]

?

[sly lily]

Or what did it change?

Never used titanium, so I dont know about it

[pulsar jay]

honestly i don't think rod of discord really needs any restriction if there are 0 enemies nearby

[sly lily]

You will get told "but enemies can spawn"

[tired haven]

Ok so
Titanium has Shadow Dodge buff that allows you to take 1 hit with no damage, with 30 seconds cooldown

[pulsar jay]

BECAUSE at that point you're probably just moving around the world

which is fine

[zealous ridge]

well i mean you could be far away from enemies and still have use for rod

[gusty geode]

On the other hand
Seems kinda weird that an item would suddenly get weaker during boss fights, right?

[zealous ridge]

^yeah

[tired haven]

Well yes but actually no

[sly lily]

Well, that happens with a lot of stuff

Not to mention the things that outright kill you

[tired haven]

blahblah their mighty presense disturbs timespace matter and makes it harder to channel teleport

[pulsar jay]

the boss's presense makes you feel uneasy!

[zealous ridge]

well that's honestly just clunky

[pulsar jay]

can't channel right when you're horrified right?

[zealous ridge]

plus, in hardmode, really exploration has already been done enough

[tired haven]

Indeed
It is clunky but that's to prove a point more than anything

[zealous ridge]

like... you search for the early hm hallow and corruption and that's all you'll really need

[sly lily]

Yeah, things should get reverted for RoD out of boss as suggested before, and in bosses instead increase damage and add potion sickness and regen negation

[zealous ridge]

i dont like that..

[tired haven]

That's too much mechanics for a single penalty ngl

[zealous ridge]

because that's basically just making literally two completely differently functioning items in one

aside from the teleport, which they both share

otherwise, one is for exploration and the other is for dodging, one has penalties one doesnt

[tired haven]

can yall guess why rod is the biggest pain for most devs

[zealous ridge]

its just nonsensical, why have 1 tool that teleports you, but it functions in completely different ways depending on whether or not a boss is alive?

well, it doesnt help that calamity is focused alot more on dodging, while still maintaining the open-ness of terraria's combat

[tired haven]

Surely doesn't. RoD is about as ridiculous movement option there as you could imagine

And sadly, the "rare" argument doesn't help, because people just can grind/use other mods to get it. So the general approach rn is to make it more common (the recipe and defiled rune help players to not waste hours), but also weaker option

[sly lily]

What I dont get is why make RoD easier to craft and then... this

[zealous ridge]

easier to get, harder to abuse

i believe that's what crab is getting at

[tired haven]

The "weaker", as it is inherently a nerf, pisses people off

And yes. "More common but less outstanding" item rework

[sly lily]

Yeah I mean, it doesn't hurt me that the CD is 10 secs because I get that time is wide enough

But it is just an annoyance for what it usually was both a fast travel and a hp resource dodge item

[zealous ridge]

i was thinking about this as a potential balance change

[sly lily]

And it is, yet I believe how it was tackled was ungraceful

[tired haven]

i honestly have no idea how to keep it as travelling while also limiting how hard it affects bosses without arbitrary restriction

[sly lily]

I just think that regular RoD with the 25% hp and adding sickness/regen1 would be enough...

[zealous ridge]

have chaos state be 6 seconds when initially applied, but have it constantly drain the players life slowly for chaos state's duration

the more enemies that are nearby, the more damage the drain does (maybe around 30 blocks near you) to make it more of an evasive tool than an approach one

<?> how does this sound?

maybe the drain effect only activates when an enemy is alive

[tired haven]

There is that one "adapt all bosses so they can slap you for reckless rod usage", but that would mean the win of rod over the design and it will become mandatory

Also uhhhh, why would one approach things with rod?

[sly lily]

If it is just a drain again, you can heal it

[zealous ridge]

i mean using rod in something like the dog fight, where you can use it to get closer to the tail for longer while also dodging an attack

might be niche

but it disinsentivises constant usage during boss fights

granted you're close enough to them

[tired haven]

It's far more niche than "oh geez god the projectile/boss is gonna hit me, I'm out"

[zealous ridge]

ye fair enough

[sly lily]

Aha

[zealous ridge]

it forces you to lay low, so to speak, after rod teleporting

if you don't youll take more drain damage

and if you can't help being close to the boss? well, you're gonna have to deal with it

[tired haven]

Hmmmmm
What I thought about right now is adding threats with rod use (like projectiles)
Not sure how annoying that would actually be, but sounds like something a lot more concerning during bosses than exploration, especially if those threats are passive

Basically, you get out of trouble for unpredictable trouble

[sly lily]

So Scal is now mushimesama

[tired haven]

Still a dick move, sadly
But at least the choice is here

[zealous ridge]

do you think that sugg just posted is an oversight?

i mean, the wiki says it inflicts exo freeze

[distant gyro]

does magnomaly not already inflict EXF

[tired haven]

(and of course repeated use of rod will spawn more stuff, to tickle greedy players)

And hmm, let me test

[subtle oracle]

Huh? But the Exo freeze page doesnt have magnomaly cannon included in the list...

[zealous ridge]

on the dummies, at least, it doesnt look like it's inflicting exo freeze

[distant gyro]

target.AddBuff(ModContent.BuffType<ExoFreeze>(), 30);

yep it does

bets someone forgot to add it

[subtle oracle]

Then RIP my suggestion

[distant gyro]

wait no it's in

[radiant meadow]

all exo weapons should inflict exo freeze

[distant gyro]

between gale and photo

[radiant meadow]

it might not've been added to the exo freeze page

[distant gyro]

it's there

[radiant meadow]

then it might not have been added to the magnomaly page

or someone is just blind

[zealous ridge]

no its on the magnomaly page too

[subtle oracle]

"It is inflicted by the Exoblade, Photoviscerator, Subsuming Vortex, Celestus, Cosmic Immaterializer and Apotheosis."

[distant gyro]

oh uh

[zealous ridge]

well that hasnt been updated

[radiant meadow]

mmyes the description

[distant gyro]

that list is a dumbo

[radiant meadow]

:)

[zealous ridge]

but the list itself, below that

has magnomaly listed

[subtle oracle]

Yeah that is why my suggestion exists

[sand umbra]

mmmyes the description that doesn't have half the weapons that inflict it

that's better suited for wikibasic btw

[zealous ridge]

yeah

[subtle oracle]

Someone needs to add to that

[zealous ridge]

probably isnt really something worth suggesting lmao

[sand umbra]

you can do it yourself

you don't have to be a Wiki Editor to edit the wiki

[subtle oracle]

Im no Wiki editor tho

[sand umbra]

[tired haven]

[sand umbra]

if you had to be a Wiki Editor to edit the wiki you'd have more of an argument

[sly lily]

While at it please correct the Endogenesis page

[distant gyro]

what

[sly lily]

I got a Ruthless one

[radiant meadow]

probably best modifier sentence thingy

[sly lily]

Yes

[sand umbra]

then you have some other mod that lets you get Ruthless on shit with no KB

[radiant meadow]

does endogenisis lack kb?

[sand umbra]

as far as I'm aware

[sly lily]

Thorium?

[distant gyro]

considering qol mods make yoyos and spears get legendary

[sly lily]

Perhaps messed due to musical affix

[radiant meadow]

sauce says otherwise lole

item.knockBack = 4f;

[sand umbra]

w0t

[zealous ridge]

[sand umbra]

wiki lied to me

[distant gyro]

Gonna stab whoever made the endogenesis page

[radiant meadow]

someone probably copied immat page

[distant gyro]

For not only including scal infobox drop

[radiant meadow]

and didn't edit that tidbit

[distant gyro]

but also forgetting to edit kb

[radiant meadow]

endogenisis does drop from scal

[distant gyro]

I only spotted the lack of infoboxes like 2 weeks after its release

Endo is indeed in the drop pool

ono everything is wrong

[subtle oracle]

Ok i updated the list of weapons that inflict exo freeze...

[distant gyro]

I still think a brief summary works better than listing all weapons :/

[sand umbra]

mfw listing every weapon individually

[radiant meadow]

now do that for brimstone flames and on fire

[distant gyro]

this was my description: It is inflicted by several Auric-tier weapons along with Apotheosis, Drataliornus, and Endogenesis.

[robust lava]

also, shouldn't the table be alphabetical by default?

[radiant meadow]

yes

except for dpl stuff

[subtle oracle]

No i wont do that for brimstone flames and on fire, im not a wiki editor

[potent veldt]

Ngl, I don't even truly see the point in Deus' lunar fragments not being from the treasure bag

Like with Prov and the non-bag bosses, it makes sense why they have drops that aren't included in a bag

With Deus I don't see the point

[sand umbra]

okay so real talk when was the last time Sentinel bags were sugg'd

[potent veldt]

The only reason I can imagine is so you can't Arma 200+ of every fragment in 2 minutes, but bruh, Arma-ing Deus isn't even easy

[sand umbra]

mfw devs add a mechanic and then make entirely too many exceptions and rules for that same mechanic

where have I seen this before from the same mod

[potent veldt]

It also doesn't help that the entire reason why anyone would Arma Deus is those fragments

[tired haven]

But the hide RIV bro...,

[potent veldt]

Hide ain't even worth arma-ing

[tired haven]

shh

Quasar, kinda

[potent veldt]

Quasar I can't get, but again

The entire point of Arma is to mitigate grinding

So why even try to prevent Arma from working for certain things

You're only making things longer than they should be

The only legitimate case I've ever seen for Arma not working is Elysian shield and wings

[tired haven]

🤷‍♀️ honestly, I have no excuse for that right now
The only idea i get is those fragments looking cool outside the bag (yeah that's even more stupid)

heh

[potent veldt]

If that's the reason, which I hope it isn't, that's dumb

[tired haven]

Oh it is

[potent veldt]

Since that's Lunar Event's job

Not Deus'

[hollow shell]

funnee idea:
Make Deus (and postML Aureus) drop Galactica Singularities instead of each fragment
and turn Singularities into grab bag items with one of each fragment in em so you can convert em back and also easy storage

[tired haven]

Bags that are also crafting materials?

[sand umbra]

yes

[hollow shell]

Yes

[potent veldt]

Hmmmm

[sand umbra]

I like this

[potent veldt]

That seems cool, but also kinda

Over the top

[sand umbra]

how would it be over the top

[tired haven]

I'm a little concerned, but sounds cool enough to separate deus from pillars

[potent veldt]

"I'm just gonna separate the pure atoms of these Galactic Singularities right quick"

[hollow shell]

I mean you put em together in the first place

[tired haven]

You say that while cutting a fish into souls

[sand umbra]

we literally make homemade singularities in the first place

[tired haven]

Terraria doesn't make sense

[potent veldt]

In all fairness, there is other weirder shit, yeah

[sand umbra]

I just wanna point that out

[hollow shell]

lemme just make an ancient blade that belongs to someone else
lemme just create this one-of-a-kind historic item

[sand umbra]

lemme just create the fucking Exoblade

[potent veldt]

If this Deus sugg doesn't go through I'll probably take a more detailed shot at it

[hollow shell]

Well this is an Aureus sugg

[potent veldt]

Wait

I'm blind

Does Aureus drop fragments??

[distant gyro]

post-ml

[hollow shell]

PostML ye

[potent veldt]

Ah

Odd

Then why not include Deus in the suggestion, what

[hollow shell]

Farming options ftw

Yeah he prolly should be...

unless his are already in the bag

[potent veldt]

They are not, last time I checked

[sand umbra]

Deus drops fragments directly as well

[tired haven]

Tbf deus is recent i suppose, because I don't remember him do that either

[potent veldt]

Which is meaty

[sand umbra]

nobody's fragments are in the bag

[hollow shell]

Aight

[potent veldt]

Fragments are allergic to bags

[hollow shell]

@plush karma Add Astrum Deus to your suggestion

He does the same thing

[plush karma]

oh, will do

[green pumice]

they rip the fabric

[plush karma]

and my ping

[sand umbra]

thonk

[civic pond]

[zealous ridge]

hmm

[sand umbra]

@narrow sorrel can you provide more context, such as kill times, DPS average, gear used, etc.?

[zealous ridge]

yeah, more stats would help

[green pumice]

1. where the hell are your kill times and dp-

[sand umbra]

ha get sniped

[zealous ridge]

[sand umbra]

byeah, there just isn't enough info here for me (or anyone else, for that matter) to draw a solid conclusion from this

[subtle oracle]

Maybe you are good with polter but suck against provi?

[zealous ridge]

i mean, in all fairness

i used a pre-provi weapon to dominate polter, perhaps that might be part of it?

[tired haven]

in all fairness I felt the same way a few months ago, heh

[zealous ridge]

lmao nice

but like, i could see some weapons being overclocked against polter but not providence

like, example

gilded proboscis

[distant gyro]

I found polter harder to nohit than provi at some point

[subtle oracle]

Provi is a pretty bullshit boss to be honest

[distant gyro]

Crazy, I know

[tired haven]

Well, that's how it is supposed to be, hehe

[zealous ridge]

because polter doesn't move nearly as much as providence can, you can just circle polt and get leeching constantly while still doing respectable damage

[subtle oracle]

Polter has like 30 projectiles flying around you at once, obviously its harder to no hit

Especialy phase 3

[hollow saffron]

Make Holy Flames lower the player's damage and slow them down

Reason: The flames are holy, and as such they should be able to 'judge' the player for their sins. A strong negative effect of this could be being 'paralyzed' by the light. Plus the tooltip says you're dissolving from it, and if you're dissolving you wouldn't be able to attack/move as fast.

[subtle oracle]

?

[distant gyro]

[subtle oracle]

[hollow saffron]

hi feedback when

[distant gyro]

I don't think a boss debuff should hinder player movement

[hollow saffron]

cryogen

[zealous ridge]

yet there are bosses that do that anyways lul

[hollow saffron]

glacial state, chilled, etc

what chozo said

[distant gyro]

cryo and destro exist but those are bad

[sand umbra]

I don't think a boss debuff should hinder player movement

Cryo

Desu frost lasers

[hollow saffron]

not just cryo

wof

[frail mantle]

yea movement related debuffs are fuck

[hollow saffron]

you cant move outside of the underworld via recall

[sand umbra]

btw Horror reduces movement speed and acceleration

[hollow saffron]

^

[sand umbra]

and basically everything in Rev+ inflicts that

[hollow saffron]

eoc inflicts that

[sand umbra]

so like meme

[hollow saffron]

idk it could be a rev only thing

[subtle oracle]

So that stacked with horror is pretty much cancer

[hollow saffron]

horror lmao

[distant gyro]

etf

[hollow saffron]

laudanum moment

[distant gyro]

idc then

[sand umbra]

Horror is a Rev+ only debuff but a shitload of stuff inflicts it which means free movement speed reduction

a

[distant gyro]

if you want provi to slow you down then so be it

[subtle oracle]

Suggestion becoming real PogU

[distant gyro]

valor aside

[zealous ridge]

i feel dissolving from holy light connotes something else

your defense and damage reduction, perhaps? the longer the debuff is active, the lower your dr and defensive stats become?

[distant gyro]

what if holy flame flat out destroys your max hp like her lore item

[zealous ridge]

[sand umbra]

Oceanic Maul moment

[hollow saffron]

Make Holy Flames have a unique ability besides being a DoT
Reason: The flames 'dissolve' you according to the tooltip, and as such, they should be able to negatively affect the player in some way that is akin to dissolving them. An example would be lowering your attack speed/your movement speed, but that is just an example.

[distant gyro]

[zealous ridge]

so like zombified from maso

[hollow saffron]

ok is this better

[zealous ridge]

||yeah tbf godslayer has the blackout effect||

so it's not unprecedented

[hollow saffron]

wait what

since when

[distant gyro]

spoiler!

[zealous ridge]

oh shit

[sand umbra]

this is sugma disc you meme

[subtle oracle]

Spoiler tags hello D:

[sand umbra]

but also yeah spoiler tags a

byeah uh

[hollow saffron]

but anyways how is the suggestion now

[zealous ridge]

it was revealed in patch notte lele but okay

its fine i tagged it

[hollow saffron]

btw can debuffs have different effects based on difficulty

[sand umbra]

Glacial State freezes player and memes defense
Horror pulls like 5 non-DoT effects at once
Vulnerability Hex's effects are primarily non-DoT
||GSI now inherits Blackout||
etc.

[distant gyro]

(Plague similar to GSI)

[hollow saffron]

plague

more like

uh

[sand umbra]

also Plague slows you down and inherits Darkness

[hollow saffron]

metal

[distant gyro]

collapso. coronavirus

[sand umbra]

that's inflicted by PBG, a boss that absolutely demands high mobility and clear view

[hollow saffron]

anyways

last call for feedback

[sand umbra]

so like

anywho it seems fine, go on ahead

[zealous ridge]

yeah its gud suggest

[hollow saffron]

ok

[radiant meadow]

Plague inflicts the darkness effect yes

[zealous ridge]

not like pbg already makes the screen and filter impossible to see through

[subtle oracle]

Debuff suggestions always complicate things

[hollow saffron]

the darkness from plague is irrelevant in the fight

[radiant meadow]

If I commit unlazy, stuff like plague and gsi could have custom darkness changes

[hollow saffron]

lol

[radiant meadow]

Instead of inheriting vanilla bools

[hollow saffron]

ben commit unlazy thats ok, feel free to have a life

[sand umbra]

well yes but like

that requires committing unlazy

and why be unlazy when you can be lazy

[hollow saffron]

⏰

yw

[hearty plaza]

but pillars annoying and deserve to existn't

[subtle oracle]

Exactly the statement that i expected someone to make... Well who cares im a fan of the pillars, i like them 🙂

[plush karma]

At least calamity makes it so you only have to kill 100 enemies per pillar instead of 150 though it wouldn't be unwelcome to lower that further

[ashen warren]

/\

I’m glad the improved pillars mod exists

[tired haven]

To be entirely honest
Pillars being actually relevant after the damn shield is gone sounds neat

[unkempt bolt]

for an almost completely immobile target that doesnt/rarely attacks

having more health makes no sense

there's no fight to be prolonged by adding more hp

[tired haven]

Well, when it pops in 4 seconds, that's not quite engaging either

[unkempt bolt]

would more hp make it more engaging though

you'd just be sitting there for a couple more seconds

[tired haven]

Given that you still need to dodge enemies, kinda

I mean, yeah. Mob things suck in terraria, we get it
But still, let's not cut from already thin parts

The main complaint about pillars is those 100 enemies

Not (2)0k hp dummy target

[unkempt bolt]

well yeah because the pillar is really the reward for killing the enemies

it's a living fragment container

[tired haven]

Kinda, yeah
I guess i'm just sad that the said pillar cannot be a mini-mini-boss for the whole thing

[unkempt bolt]

4 pillars

4 parts of the moon lord

[tired haven]

(as most of those already have effects to defend themselves)

[unkempt bolt]

[hollow saffron]

pssh pillars being relevant

[ashen warren]

Um, all I think of now is Masomode cultist throwing them at you

[stray wren]

Kinda want the whole pillars event to be over asap
It's a pretty bad event imo

[pulsar jay]

i too want to experience crawltipedes and corites for an extra 30 seconds

[unkempt bolt]

killing each pillar assembles one part of the moon lord at a time

that follows you until all pillars are dead

[ashen warren]

intense sarcasm

[unkempt bolt]

this is a flawless idea

[tired haven]

It is bad event, because it is both repetitive and dragging out the thing, while you are required to farm it multiple times

[stray wren]

Crawltipedes are like the bane of my very existence

[unkempt bolt]

crawltipedes are not the issue of crawltipedes

[stray wren]

My aim is

[pulsar jay]

everything else is the issues of crawltipedes

[unkempt bolt]

crawltipedes are an issue because being on the ground with the other solar enemies

is hell

[pulsar jay]

exactly

[stray wren]

And yeah farming it is super annoying

[pulsar jay]

you can't dodge anything without doing some hovering

but if you dare hover

[stray wren]

It would be nice If they dropped more fragments to reduce farming

[unkempt bolt]

rarely

[pulsar jay]

legit

[unkempt bolt]

like how eclipse enemies rarely drop darksun fragments

[pulsar jay]

corites are fucking constantly flying through m

[unkempt bolt]

those fuckers that reflect projectiles

[pulsar jay]

I can't dodge because I'd just jump into another crowd

if i fly into the air

[hollow saffron]

corites lmao

[tired haven]

time to suggest postML fragment fishes

[void kelp]

solar pillar just isn’t fun.

[unkempt bolt]

more fishing

[pulsar jay]

if i stay on the ground a sroller will hit me for 400 damage and instantly kill me

[unkempt bolt]

more fishing

more fishing

[stray wren]

Oh my,I acc like that idea

[unkempt bolt]

i need more fishing

[tired haven]

ikr

[unkempt bolt]

my favorite part of terraria is

[pulsar jay]

i hate all enemies with the turtle ai

[unkempt bolt]

being immobile and rng grinding

[stray wren]

Fishing is relaxing even in terraria

[pulsar jay]

they're all stupid and the people who made them must've been on something at the time

[tired haven]

The day that the heart crystal would be available to be fished up I'd delete tml for a month

[pulsar jay]

srollers 1 shot you

turtles 1 shot you

[stray wren]

Takes a different pace from the "kill everything and loot aspect"

[unkempt bolt]

if you wanna relax just put on lofi beats to study and relax to while fighting scal

sounds relaxing idk bout you

[pulsar jay]

scal isn't relaxing

i mean she's more relaxing than yharon but she ain't relaxing

[tired haven]

Then fight expert ks on a rope

[hollow saffron]

fishing heart crystals

[unkempt bolt]

then fight ks at all lol

[hollow saffron]

lol

[pulsar jay]

calamity makes him fall on you if you cheese

[stray wren]

Revengance and up makes that an even bigger problem

[unkempt bolt]

also talking about pillars again

once you beat moon lord

they're 100% pointless

since aureus

[stray wren]

Oh yeaaaah

Fishing still sounds fun tho

[unkempt bolt]

actually pillars only need to be killed once at all

because celestial sigil

unless moon lord takes you like 30 attempts

[sand umbra]

Sigil takes a mighty 20 fragments each type so like lole

[tired haven]

More like 4 attempts at best though

[unkempt bolt]

what

damn look at that

[tired haven]

Unless you farm deus at least

[sand umbra]

[[tgc:Celestial Sigil]]

[red storm]

https://terraria.gamepedia.com/Celestial_Sigil

[sand umbra]

welcome to fuck

population: Lunar Events

[pulsar jay]

what

did you just say, welcome to fuck

[unkempt bolt]

is that a greeting, or a state of being?

[tired haven]

Latter

[unkempt bolt]

[pulsar jay]

shouldn't the population be 6?

[tired haven]

Sounds like 605 tbh

[pulsar jay]

4 pillars. lunatic. moonlord

[tired haven]

Hmm, 606 because forgot lunatic

[unkempt bolt]

is that how many enemies are in the game

[pulsar jay]

how do you forget about the most cool boss in vanilla

lunatic is a fun fight

[tired haven]

No, that's how many you need to kill to finish

[pulsar jay]

i wish it was longer

[tired haven]

Also I forgot about him for that exact reason

[unkempt bolt]

lunatic is a neat idea but piss easy

[pulsar jay]

he needs more magic

what if he cycled through elements and each element had multiple attacks of it's own

[unkempt bolt]

what if he actually moved instead of being stationary between teleports

i’m not saying summoners need more pain with their AI tracking

but he’s a sitting duck

[pulsar jay]

summoners are using xenoes on cultist so that isn't an issue

[unkempt bolt]

ah true

give cultist a yharon/fishron teleporting charge phase because nobody complains about those

[pulsar jay]

man those suck so much why do people nake those

[ashen warren]

give pillars bullet hell phases cuz no one complain about them

[pulsar jay]

Attempting to trash the pebble will instantly kill you and put it back into your inventory

[subtle oracle]

Man, so pillars will stay the way they are? We'll just have to wait and see...

in a few weeks

[ashen warren]

pewds style right click out of inventory exists

[zealous ridge]

hey guys back at it again
alright, so I've been thinking about the sandcloak, spectral veil, plagued fuel pack, momentum capacitor... all these things have their own keybinds associated, and are really just... weird considering they're equipment. I think it would be more interesting and less restrictive if these things weren't accessories, but instead tools akin to the Rod of discord, just that they would benefit rogue more i guess. How do you think people would feel about this?

[hollow shell]

It'd be slightly less convenient to use them

I guess it wouldn't interrupt your weapon firing considering you need to use stealth to use em

so

[zealous ridge]

ah yeah, that's true

[hollow shell]

it's prolly fine to have em as items

[zealous ridge]

but okay

[ashen warren]

I personally don’t use them at all because of the key binding.

[zealous ridge]

ye, making them more like tools would open their accessibility i feel

[radiant meadow]

it'd be weird for stuff like cloaks and fuel packs to be used as an item rather than worn

thematically that is

[zealous ridge]

eh, kind of?

i can see where you're coming from

but i think spectral veil and sand cloak could be just as easily flared rather than exactly worn, like having it on your arm and swiping it forward to activate the effect

and plagued fuel pack could just be something you hold on to and it launches you up

[radiant meadow]

make plagued fuel pack a set of wings

[zealous ridge]

require stealth to fly? hmm

become an owl

[radiant meadow]

it would be reworked a bit of course if that happened

[zealous ridge]

i think even if it doesnt fit as much thematically, it could still work just as well being tools

[radiant meadow]

and no, you wouldn't need stealth to fly normally

[zealous ridge]

dang

[radiant meadow]

that would be dumb

[zealous ridge]

[radiant meadow]

but consuming stealth could give you a considerable speed boost

[zealous ridge]

not a terrible idea

id prefer that there be an actual plague booster or like... plague bee wings

the fuel pack is more like a pseudo dash accessory

although having it be wings would make some sense

[sand umbra]

~~POST-PBG BEE WINGS UPGRADE

POST-PBG BEE WINGS UPGRADE~~

[turbid pike]

^^^^

This

[pulsar jay]

That

vvvv

[ashen warren]

I think the whole plague balance should be reworked.

But it seems that’s just me

new update has a hook

[hollow idol]

@unreal viper check the suggestions donts doc in the pins

[ashen warren]

a really good one, like stellar

[hollow idol]

hook suggestions are frequent, especially post ml ones

[hallow kraken]

frequently suggested

[quick ice]

||Bobbit hook exists||

[pulsar jay]

why did you spoiler tag that

it's already existed it's not new

[quick ice]

it's an update spoiler

[ashen warren]

48 hour spoiler period

[quick ice]

no it came out in the most recently released update, which was yesterday

🤡

[pulsar jay]

how does it already have a wiki entry if it just was added

[ashen warren]

because they're ready for it

[quick ice]

because the wiki people are fast

[vocal grotto]

^

[pulsar jay]

I've never seen a wiki that fast

[ashen warren]

I hear some actually have pages ready in advance

[pulsar jay]

they're usually like a week late

lmao

[ashen warren]

cause they're testers

[quick ice]

yup, that's how good the Calam wiki is

[pulsar jay]

[quick ice]

the Editors usually make the new pages since a good amount of them are testers, and then folks like me just read changelogs and change everything

and do the extra stuff
but anyhow, back to suggs

[ashen warren]

so yes there's an item in the new update that invalidates that suggestion by miles

and frequently suggested thing

so lole

[hallow kraken]

I wouldn’t say “by miles”

The suggestion calls for more post ml hooks, and only one was added

Still a don’t

[ashen warren]

that's not what I was referring to, it's the reasoning

[tired haven]

1 is sufficient amount for more

[pulsar jay]

what no

[ashen warren]

"current vanilla and calamity hooks simply cannot keep up with the high movement of the player and bosses post-moon lord."

[hallow kraken]

ah okay

[pulsar jay]

there are hooks that function in unique ways

[ashen warren]

when yeet hook exists

[hallow kraken]

but does bobbit hook kill bat hook?

[pulsar jay]

a regular hook is pretty

[ashen warren]

it's basically super bat hook

so yes, it good

realistically that's all you need

hooks are utter trash compared to post-ml wings, boots, and mounts

they're useful as a dash that resets flight time

[toxic kettle]

Well you don't just use hooks

They work well in combination with wings and boots

[ashen warren]

yes but is there a reason to add more now that we have the new one?

[pulsar jay]

hooks are basically only used to reset flight time by that Point

we need an anti grav hook clone

we don't have to touch the ground to reset our flight and it allows us to move foward while hooking

[ashen warren]

the anti-grav hook is the one that pushes you a certain distance from the hook and gives you control right?

or is that static hook

[pulsar jay]

mhm

static is the one that doesn't pull you and instead you pull and push yourself away

[ashen warren]

right, thanks

[hollow shell]

@unreal viper Spoilers: ||https://calamitymod.gamepedia.com/Hooks It exists.||

[unreal viper]

@hollow shell Thanks.

[hollow shell]

May wanna remove or reword your sugg

[hollow shell]

@unreal viper

[ashen warren]

Is bobbit hook better than bat hook tho

[cyan lagoon]

I mean, you cant get bat hook all year round

Unless you use fargos or any other halloween enabling mod but that doesnt count

[tepid root]

||bobbit hook is better than bat hook indeed||

[radiant meadow]

I made sure of that

[queen sail]

Considering how fast ||bobbit worms|| are I’m not surprised

But still no polterhook :pensive_rick:

[worthy fiber]

Well at this point polterhook would be pretty redundant

[sand umbra]

||mfw Bobbit Hook subverted all possible expectations and gave Bobbit Worms a purpose||

[distant gyro]

combat hook
combat hook

[sand umbra]

now give me my DoG hook that can shoot god-slaying fireballs at enemies or perish

this is an ultimatum (maybe)

[distant gyro]

would be nice if polter gets a sentry-integrated hook though, forcing people to pull out hooks to do epic damage

[sand umbra]

[queen sail]

Willow you say having a polterhook at the same tier as ||bobbit hook|| would be redundant when you can get 4 hooks at the start of hm from certain biomes that are essentially carbon copies

[worthy fiber]

I suppose more options is nice

[queen sail]

Why not make polterhook different from ||bobbit hook|| with the fact that polter has four of them

[worthy fiber]

Does having multiple hooks even have a purpose outside early HM?

Multiple hooks latching at a time*

[ashen warren]

i'd say multiple latch is only useful from pre-hm to waffle kill

let alone early hm

[worthy fiber]

Yeah, stretching it a bit

[queen sail]

I mean is there anything else notable you can make about a hook

Like the only other “unique” vanilla hook with a gimmick is the web hook and even then it’s shorter than what Yharim’s sword compensates for

[sand umbra]

how dare you disrespect Static and Anti-Grav like that

begone

[queen sail]

FUCK

I forgot those existed

Ig I remembered web hook bc it was shitty

[sand umbra]

Web Hook is neat until it isn't

[queen sail]

Also I usually just sell Antigrav as soon as I see it

[sand umbra]

Anti-Grav is...admittedly very situational

but it's certainly unique

[queen sail]

Static I don’t buy bc I build like a normal person

[sand umbra]

anywho the real point here is that Static Hook is god

[queen sail]

Unlike you game build freaks

/s

[ashen warren]

web hook is a meme, it's worse than a slime hook other than amount of hooks

and pretty rare

[queen sail]

Virgin Web Hook vs Chad Slime Hook

• Relies on RNG to get, reach is shorter than whatever Yharim’s sword compensates for

• Can be easily gotten by defeating the first boss of the game, provides equally as much utility and reach until you get a better hook

[sand umbra]

Slime Hook is kingly for early-game, ye

[queen sail]

Like

[sand umbra]

high drop rate, source is easy to summon and easy to fight, has very appreciable stats in all fields