if u dont agree? Don't put a star
#suggestions-discussion
ashen warren
gray nebula
yea I'm not putting a star
lost agate
gray nebula
and also I'm saying why I disagree 
ashen warren
I mean scroll up
gray nebula
oh yea
gray nebula
what
gray nebula
I don't know which message you're referring to
ashen warren
just read the conversations smh
gray nebula
queen sail
You could just
gray nebula
thanks for being helpful
queen sail
Say what youโre talking about
ashen warren
anytime <3
of what me talking about 3 things?
I only said what people were talking about
queen sail
๐ณ
gray nebula
this is getting incredibly confusing
ashen warren
one of them was changing the colour of yharons anti-escape flamenado. Changing the size of the giant ass flamenado that spawns in (phase 2 I think? not too sure I dont my self have a problem with this one) and his damage is my idea
its a bit too high for phase 1
gray nebula
that's 2 suggestions in one then
ashen warren
I play yu-gi-oh what can I say
gray nebula
what
as stated previously putting multiple suggestions in one is something you shouldn't do
ashen warren
3*
frail mantle
and think about your childhood if u had one
que
ashen warren
Read what @vast stirrup put in calamity mod talk
tired haven
Wisp, you should take a rest. This gets slightly ridiculous ๐
ashen warren
oh like the auto swing for staffs like mechaworm?
eh it was a seto kaiba reference, ignore it then.
And the same use time
Yea I do like that feature. But its not really necessary
You ever played summoner in this mod?
It would help in boss fights if u forget to use minions first though
Exactly
i'm up to skelly prime in summoner death mode so yes
bitter drift
@ashen warren honestly just make the anti escape flamenados green only as it will make them gold with the back ground (yes the back ground color DOES effect the color of the flamenados)
also for the flamenados themselves making them smaller can be good but does it really matter when all you need to do is stock pile them on one another here is tip in a large world if you can get a sky bridge on the boundary between the sky and space you can jump over the flamenado
as for the charging attacks YES GOD THEY NEED A NURF below 40% this dragon goes haywire and does only long charges those charged can traverse him ENTIRE ARENA IN SECONDS
and yes summoner does need a GIANT buff against yharon but it's more of the mechworm being pure buggy cosmic trash then yharon being too fast
hollow shell
Oh uhh
Having that suggestion in two messages makes this awkward
bitter drift
is that suggestion a single suggestion?
teal ibex
the dashes going so far is also what makes them easy to dodge
well, easy is the wrong word
bitter drift
?????
hollow shell
which is a shame because changes for the fight would be welcome
teal ibex
but you can abuse the distance of the dashes in your favor
bitter drift
ya one dash = half of a large world (in highet)
fervent citrus
ive been asking around about who uses mollusk armor and...
bitter drift
i found the best way to deal with those charges is to dash at the start of the dash but throw that to the trash below 40%
fervent citrus
...some dont even know of its existence 
teal ibex
yes you should start dashing earlier than you think and that'll save you trouble
hollow shell
Yharon also has some insane reaction time
If you RoD a few frames too early he's dashing right to your destination
bitter drift
ya i remember the fact he doesn't turn at a slow or even medium speed
teal ibex
i mean the dashes are consistently dodgeable so like
bitter drift
he has sharper turns then DoGG
hollow shell
He has perfect turns, in fact
bitter drift
@teal ibex as i said not below 40%
teal ibex
i guess it does depend a lot upon your first dash timing?
did i say anything about the percentage? 
teal ibex
which phase
teal ibex
the dashes there are definitely the hardest in my experience, but i wouldn't really call them unfair
hollow shell
Yeah Phase 2 isn't constantly up your ass
bitter drift
i wouldn't either but at the same time it does need a small fix
the only thing that make is somewhat possible is the fact that he stop after 6 charges
teal ibex
he does 4 and 3 alternating
bitter drift
oh really? well he must be REALLY fast below 40%
i don't think there is any downtime between charges time alternating
teal ibex
between each 4/3 dashes he does a circular swoop and spawns a flarenado
it's about 2 or 3 seconds of downtime
bitter drift
huh you know now that i rethink of it you do get more damage in at this phase
teal ibex
yeah that's the only time you get to damage him as summoner
bitter drift
xD summoner need a fix there
i'm 
at the fact it wasn't fixed for so long
like a new weapon or a buff to the mechworm or squid to make it better
frail mantle
buffing squid so it's viable for Yharon would be dumb
ashen warren
which is really bad.
bitter drift
NP
gusty geode
Could be worse
I imagine it was really bad when he spawned Birbs
bitter drift
@frail mantle maybe but we need A WEAPON to kill him with
frail mantle
that is indeed true
ashen warren
Also no offence but green would kinda make no sense xD we need a theme for it like purple/black represent death like I mentioned before pink is death in Japanese culture
but green is goodluck so if we want goodluck we ded
bitter drift
@ashen warren the green color is changed by the background to golden color
ashen warren
that would still make it hard
bitter drift
no it already exit
bitter drift
like the flamenados change between orange red to green (in colors)
ashen warren
its rainbow actually
ashen warren
it has some colours
bitter drift
ah you brittish i c
ashen warren
whats wrong with me being British XD
ashen warren
sorry but we can take this to dms, (its unrelated)
bitter drift
yes
frosty dagger
@ashen warren
Yharon was made to be faster than you, you have to do a quick direction change to dodge, I do a triangle or zigzag and it works consistently
frosty dagger
The flarenados are big so you need to drag them to the side or remember where they are
bitter drift
i just stock pile them on one another
frosty dagger
For the last phase in phase one just look hard and do triangle dodges, works like a charm
In my opinion the fight doesn't need a nerf
ashen warren
yes but if u do, u may forget and accidently hit a anti escape tornado
and if u ROD out of it u would make him enraged and by the time u realised your out the arena your dead
frosty dagger
Back to dragging them to the side or remembeing where they are
It's a test of you're multitasking
bitter drift
from 40% to 25% yharon needs a nerf
frosty dagger
You're complaining that you can't do both at the same time
bitter drift
no i said the range a nerf is needed in
frosty dagger
Witch is the main mechanic of the fight
bitter drift
from 40% to 25%
frosty dagger
Is that the one where he teleports a bunch
ashen warren
teleports?
frosty dagger
Yea
bitter drift
like how can you dodge a charge that covers his entire fucking arena vertically and when it comes to highet it covers half of a large world
below 25%
in P1
ashen warren
Ikr
frosty dagger
Burst, save rage
bitter drift
this is not the problem
frosty dagger
Works for me
frosty dagger
Adren to
bitter drift
the problem is in phase 1 from 40% health to 25% health
frosty dagger
Rouge mage summoner
ashen warren
Melee is reasonable. not everyone is good at dodging
frosty dagger
Only three I've done
frosty dagger
Not at once
frail mantle
not sure how a 50% damage boost is horrible but ok
ashen warren
hes saying thats going to kill him when hes at 25%
bitter drift
i have done ranger mage and rogue till now and now i'm at summoner
ashen warren
and he still has a shit ton of hp
shell lynx
I only really have a bad day dodging the dragon when Iโm playing with friends and theyโre using lag inducing weapons
bitter drift
well you do a shit ton of damage
ashen warren
adreniline I understand
but are you really going to dodge everything?
unless your UI goku?
bitter drift
not really
ashen warren
not everyone has godlike reflexes
ashen warren
like are u going to manage dodging everything until he has 25%?
frosty dagger
It's strats
bitter drift
rage is fine for below 25% but if you fuck up once you are dead
ashen warren
also what do u mean "save rage and adren"
not sure if u havent played recently.
but even with 100% adren getting hit once it goes away
shell lynx
Yharon is more prediction than reaction imo
ashen warren
wow don't get hit from a dragon who spams?
frosty dagger
But use it if your not
ashen warren
thats like super cool
bitter drift
actually yharon's massive damage output helps a lot here as he can fill rage in 5 hits or something like that
frosty dagger
Yharon has a set pattern, learn it
ashen warren
Learn 8 phases?
bitter drift
fuck that below 40% health
ashen warren
your funny
bitter drift
it's 4
frosty dagger
I've don't that to
bitter drift
4 phases
ashen warren
8 if u include phase 1 and phase 2
frosty dagger
Done
bitter drift
and 2 of then are the same
teal ibex
as much as i agree that yharon is doable
teal ibex
saying "you can do it, just get good" is not a good argument
bitter drift
ya right yharon below 40% is just
teal ibex
of course it's doable, people have nohit every boss, that doesn't make it good
ashen warren
^
frosty dagger
Ik but I described how earlier
bitter drift
distant gyro
I mostly learn yharon from improvising
bitter drift
me 2
ashen warren
like what I no hit slime god with a good mount does that mean slime god is a easy boss?
hell no
teal ibex
i also described how it works, and it doesn't work particularly well because it's counterintuitive
distant gyro
phase 1 goes wrong for a majority of the time but eh
teal ibex
yharon is a positioning boss in a reactionary video game
bitter drift
P1.1 and P1.2 are the same except there is one more dash before the massive charge
frosty dagger
Yharon is supposed to be super hard, the bosses summon is nonconsumable
teal ibex
that is also a poor argument
frosty dagger
You lose lite two minutes for dying
teal ibex
sure, but if you're going to make vapid points they're going to be rebuked
frosty dagger
Ok I'll compile them all here one sec
teal ibex
go for it
bitter drift
yes please
ashen warren
also about the "non consumable" thing, poltergiest spawn item is non consumable as well doesn't mean hes super hard
bitter drift
ya
teal ibex
that's not what he was saying lol
bitter drift
he was saying this
teal ibex
he's saying that non-consumable summons mean that retries aren't as punishing
bitter drift
Yharon is supposed to be super hard, the bosses summon is nonconsumable
@frosty dagger
:/
ashen warren
I'm aware he's meant to be super hard
bitter drift
yes but making him border line unfair but doable isn't cutting it for me
ashen warren
but tbh to me if u look at that in another way hes kinda saying that boss summons which are non consumable are supposed to be super hard
yea
ashen warren
yea
ashen warren
I'd say yharon is harder
teal ibex
providence is the hardest deathmode boss, nobody can change my mind
bitter drift
xD
ashen warren
I mean it makes sense, he's the jungle
loyal servent.
bitter drift
dude
ashen warren
Hectique, i'll be honest after dying 80 times he gets easy
bitter drift
you know how many time i threw my self at da ass
bitter drift
god of the stars and god of spikes right in your ass
teal ibex
i get arbitrarily punished by provi because i use the bare minimum when fighting bosses and provi's debuffs and attacks are really not polite because of that
so providence is always the boss that kills me the most
ashen warren
did you play defiled?
bitter drift
@ashen warren don't panic and you will be fine against this attack
teal ibex
nah, but i might as well have been LOL
ashen warren
What I did was just fly above her and attacked
thats what I've started doing, and it works like a charm
bitter drift
i didn't need much flight time to dodge that attack
ashen warren
you mean the laser
ashen warren
yeah for the laser I would say ROD 100%
bitter drift
not really
teal ibex
using rod during laser is big sad
ashen warren
I keep on forgetting how to spell/say the full name dont judge me
normality something
bitter drift
pro-vi-dance
bitter drift
yes
ashen warren
๐ฟ just waiting for what Szeth is saying
frosty dagger
Yharon was created to be faster than you, you are supposed to come up with a way to dodge it (I use triangle and zigzag).
The flarenados are supposed to be as big as they are. You have to drag them of to the side of remember where they are. If you get cornered RoDding or double RoDing usually works.
It was made to be a glass cannon fight, he gives so much rage and does so much damage, but you do a lot to, (unless phase on summoner the mechaworm is to slow). This is further emphasized that is you understand his mechanics using reaper took neckless is a good choice.
Overall, you have to be able to juggle the flarenados and Yharon himself, this is easily accomplished by careful planning but just understand the mechanics of the fight and having quick refexes can work to.
Using a hook with rails ensures you never run out of flight time and slime mount is a free getaway as long as you remember where the tornadoes are. And RoD is a get out of jail free card. If you also have a arena this removes all other concerns about difficulty but reflexes and understanding the boss.
Lastly, to ensure you can learn to react accordingly and how to deal with the various difficulties, the summon is nonconsumable, so you don't really lose anything for failing.
It's all about adaptability, those who can't stuggle a lot
ashen warren
Of course I have a arena.
frosty dagger
It isn't all about the arena
bitter drift
on the 1st one they got a bit over board between 40% to 25% health
frosty dagger
That's only own small point
teal ibex
so most of this is true but the key weak point of your points here is also the exact thing that people are criticizing, which is that you really can't just play yharon by good reflexes. there's too much visually on screen, with the exact same palette, and with a tint that makes them even harder to distinguish.
conceptually, yeah, everything works. you can beat the boss consistently if you know all of the core components. but unless you're wiki diving and have prior knowledge about the tornado projectiles and when exactly they spawn, it's going to be EXTREMELY disproportionately difficult for the player to battle the boss. you can lose half of your arena off of a bit of bad rng for 10 seconds.
and the means to obtain the information regarding when and how these tornados spawn is so minimal that it arbitrarily punishes players who don't regularly scour the wiki or spend hours analyzing the greater pattern of the fight
ashen warren
I only look at the wiki for like 1 minutes tbh
frosty dagger
I never did
ashen warren
1*
frosty dagger
Learn from experience
bitter drift
i would have a much more fun yharon fight if they nerf that one phase just that one
teal ibex
if you're unfamiliar with the patterns, it feels like RNG whether or not it objectively is
yes, i didn't say you could only read the wiki
please read the whole statement
teal ibex
yharon has 8 phases separated into two different segments
and fights tend to last over three minutes of time
bitter drift
this phase between 40 to 25% health is just too much just nerf it and give summoner a boost so they can fight well
frosty dagger
The mechanics not attack pattern
If you understand the mechanics relfexes is enough
bitter drift
this is my only critisism
teal ibex
yes, but you need to know the pattern to position yourself adequately for the flarenados
bitter drift
just those 2
teal ibex
the vast majority of players disagree with the point of having that reflex, szeth
ashen warren
yes since you know "good at dodging" doesn't really mean the boss is easy
teal ibex
it's cool that it works for you, but it doesn't for most people, and that's an issue
teal ibex
you literally cannot argue this point, it's a fact that people struggle with it
frosty dagger
You almost always see it firsy
bitter drift
i like to call me a pro gamer and that's why i'm kind of in the middle thinking most of the fight is good but those small spots are destroying it completely
teal ibex
there's been like 2 hours of discussion about it today alone lol
bitter drift
after all i did kill Scal in 2 tries
ashen warren
yea and started from me the main character ofc
teal ibex
LOL
ashen warren
adir it took me at least 4/3 times for melee
bitter drift
xD
frosty dagger
I think it's an issue because this is the first time you are forced to understand boss mechanics with any complexity with a hard fight
bitter drift
ya it would take some times
frosty dagger
You haven't completed developed that ability yet
ashen warren
I feel like yharon is just a way of fabsol telling u to get used to fighting in limited space
teal ibex
well, no, it's one of the only bosses who does that
the only other example i can think of is leviathan charges
ashen warren
and getting ready for SCAL
teal ibex
so it's a skill exclusive to that boss and that boss alone, and it's extremely unintuitive as a result
bitter drift
but @ashen warren you want to know how many times i had died at deus?
i killed 100 or his spawning enemies
frosty dagger
That is correct
teal ibex
most people have been playing about 30-50 hours of a playthrough where that idea was entirely irrelevant, only for the last regular boss to make it a requirement
and that's the issue
ashen warren
I Can't really say omg anything about deus
frosty dagger
It's a great fight but tests an undeveloped skill
ashen warren
I just killed him first try with terror and soul edge ;p
plus those are post-ML items
teal ibex
it's a great fight conceptually, i agree
bitter drift
HE IS POST CULTIST
ashen warren
and I fought him with post-Poltergiest gear lmao
teal ibex
in application, however, most players wind up hating the fight because it deconstructs the game that they were playing before and feels like they're being punished for playing correctly
ashen warren
but they get buffed after ML and providence
teal ibex
and there's no real indication on what they're doing wrong
frosty dagger
This is probably why people think Yharon is harder than scal
bitter drift
just show that deus is a bigger problem then yharon
teal ibex
it just feels like RNG and bad design, even though it conceptually isn't
gusty geode
From what I can gather
Yharon is bad because you need to know what you're doing to win
ashen warren
what ?
frosty dagger
Changing it will be hard
gusty geode
Shouldn't that be how all bosses work
teal ibex
holy strawman
ashen warren
deus really isnt that hard imo ๐ just have a long arena
bitter drift
ya
ashen warren
but u need to outpace them
ashen warren
and mostly focus on the main worm.
ashen warren
I've only fought deus 2 times so I wouldn't know
teal ibex
nobody is saying you should be able to beat a boss without knowing how to beat the boss, everybody is saying that the means to obtain that knowledge is unintuitive
and directly contradicts the game you've been playing for many many hours prior
ashen warren
laughs in disabling calamity to get super sonic soul
soul of dimensins*
dimensions*
bitter drift
cry in I DO IT FAIR AND SQEAR
frosty dagger
I think it's very intuitive but goes against you strat of dealing with bosses which in unintuitive I guess
bitter drift
still too hard
frosty dagger
So yea, a rework would be good
teal ibex
if it goes against the typical method of beating a boss, and doesn't give in-game direction, it's unintuitive
frosty dagger
Yes
bitter drift
when you count the stage you are in DEUS IS HARDER THEN YHARON
teal ibex
i would love the attack in application if it was easier to discern, but it's literally a projectile used elsewhere in a less offensive way
bitter drift
(deus with cultist gear and yharon with post DoG gear)
ashen warren
and there is some projectiles you can attack that yharon shoots out
teal ibex
so a reused projectile, with a similar palette, on a screen of dozens of projectiles just ain't cutting it
frail mantle
i find Deus to not be that hard tbh
ashen warren
blocking your attackings to kill yharon aka resulting in you wasting adren and rage
I can just smell how hard yharon summoner is going to be
bitter drift
AND LET'S NOT FORGET THE TYPE OF THE FIGHT YOU HAVE
IT'S JUST SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM
even destroyer doesn't spam as much as deus
and he is the OG spam boss
ashen warren
lol
and his theme just represents OH SHIT YOUR GETTING HIT
and i sure do love it when Something is approaching.. when your getting a glass of water so u dont see it 
bitter drift
every single worm is pure spam in this fucked up fight
small worms spam mines
main worm spam lasrs
xD ya right?
ashen warren
that happened to me lmao
bitter drift
me 2
frosty dagger
I'm biased because the way I do bosses now is by analyzing mechanics and patterns, but that wasn't how I did it before
So yes, I think y'all are right about a rework but not a big nerf
teal ibex
honestly doesn't even need to be like a rework, just a tweak for that one attack imo
give it a special sprite and make it move a lot slower
frosty dagger
A small one
bitter drift
yes it's 1 out of 8 stages that in need of a fix and 1 out of 5 classes that are in need of help
fervent citrus
why tf doesnt anyone know about the existence of mollusk armor?
well, im sure some do but
cmon
bitter drift
because it's so forgetable
fervent citrus
hmm, comes back to whether moving it somewhere else progression-wise is a good idea
imma write a suggestion
but first i gotta do some research :P
hmm, i thought it was a rogue set, but it seems like its multi-class
toxic kettle
I'd rather have Mollusk armor not cripple my movement speed than have access to it in pre-Hardmode
it says -22% movement speed but it also seemingly disables your sprint
toxic kettle
and it's not like even with the defense you get from that armor set you'd be able to facetank any bosses
might as well render me immobile at that point
fervent citrus
Welp, that suggestion is a scrap then
sinful violet
Yeah it's not used for anything besides occasional afk farming as a summoner 
and the clams it provides don't exactly handle crowds, ironically
frosty dagger
You should explain why these changes are nessissary wispcream
fervent citrus
You got me in the first half, not gonna lie
indigo fog
It gives far more dmg crit chance and defense then other options
shell lynx
Hmm. Yeah Iโd rather just not get hit and save adrenaline
indigo fog
and you move fine underwater so it's a decent hm abyss option im pretty sure
indigo fog
I dont think so, but it's your strongest set post-calamitas
so its good for abyss
i think
bitter drift
@fervent citrus have you forgotten
IT IS EARLY HARD MODE
frail mantle
it sure do be
hollow saffron
keen geyser
night cradle
tbh the mollusk needs more of a rework than anything to make it more noticeable and more used
Getting a lot of damage and defense for a quite significant speed drawback is pretty bad atm, since the lack of decent mobility is what kills majority of players during bossfights
subtle oracle
I never knew that the Mollusk armor existed until that suggestiom, maybe i did but i forgot, yeah ive never used the armor in any of my playthroughs...
night cradle
and facetanking or blocking enough damage instead of dodging isn't the best way to go in a mod playthrough
especially in Calamity
indigo fog
After some testing with Mollusk armor I found it usable against rev twins and destroyer. The speed decrease was barely noticeable with Harpy Wings, Harpy Ring, Swiftness and Soaring Potions, and RoD for extra mobility, it gives the most damage of any non-summoner hardmode set, more than even full Tarragon armor on a set you can get at the beginning of hardmode, and I even got close to reaching adrenaline at some points, and I can imagine it doing mad damage if you happen to reach and use it on top of the armor's great damage bonus, and it may be the best abyss armor option post-Calamitas because you can move freely in water. This is just my experience, but I found it to definitely not be a bad set, but that's just me. Don't think Mollusk armor is automatically bad because of it's large mobility decrease. It's worth it.
distant gyro
Approval repelled from the lethal lava burn suggestion @tepid root
The final decision for LLB is enlisted in change 112 and 113
Split matter etc
night cradle
o okay
I see I missed something there, nvm what I said then 
just thought that it could be reworked but if it's still useable on stuff then sure ig
sand umbra
mfw people seriously overshoot how much a movement speed decrease actually affects you
terse sundial
Recent Suggestions Rejected
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/679029676752240667
sand umbra
you have hooks, you have double jumps, you get wings and the Blessed Apple at the start of Hardmode as well, etc.
also mfw one sugg and it got memed 
radiant meadow
darkness is getting reworked though
sand umbra
I mean yeah
radiant meadow
in both the abyss, underground, and in signut's fight
sand umbra
?
are you telling me the one fucking movement speed adjustment in the game that actually works right in all cases is Mollusk's debuff to it
amazing
either way, you have hooks, double jumps, and wings as well as just running
radiant meadow
Mollusk armor multiplies player x velocity by 0.985 in PostUpdateMiscEffects
gray nebula
piggy terrarium/cage sugg got denied
indigo fog
It did?
radiant meadow
I don't know why it got denied
hollow idol
you cannot enslave a divine entity
radiant meadow
but
gray nebula
UNCONTAINAble pig
radiant meadow
like it's work to sproot and animate
I think
which might be why it's denied
unnecessary work
hollow idol
whatb if someone sprites it
gray nebula
gray nebula
no lmao
sand umbra
piggy transcends such pathetic boundaries as "consistency" and cages
it is divine. you cannot contain it
that being said brb bribing iban to animate caged animals
gray nebula
only way to make me do it is by adding bloodflare resprites in the hotfix 
radiant meadow
okay, then I guess bloodflare resprites can wait I mean what
gray nebula
hollow idol
remind me why cages take a ton of animating again when its just moving an animal around
gray nebula
because people are lazy
radiant meadow
look out! he's got a nug!
stray wren
Piggie lives matter etc
gray nebula
we already have onyx excavator that does unethical things 
tired haven
Onyx excavator terrarium when
(oh wait it would just break glass, too bad)
gray nebula
onyx excavator pet
tired haven
sand umbra
gray nebula
onyx excavator summon then maybe
gray nebula
bonus damage against mineral ennemies
gray nebula
isnt that from that one mecha anime with the drill dude
lost agate
Perhaps
sinful violet
gurren lagann's a pretty popular show you know
wooden wedge
it's very popular iirc
jaunty schooner
swag the gold tho ๐ฆ
frosty dagger
I'm going to make a different Yharon sug the reflects the discussion in a week if wispcreams doesn't go through
woeful ginkgo
is it d-mode yharon or only rev?
frosty dagger
Dm
bitter drift
@fluid mortar and then too easy to sell
empty geyser
Piggy is for money.
ashen warren
the extras is a moderator messing around instead of responding here constructively
zealous ridge
I see
Fair enough I suppose, I just remember there being something about it breaking the bot in some way
vocal grotto
I can go ahead and get rid of it if needed
zealous ridge
do whatever, I personally donโt care that much
Iโm just worried it would fuck with the bot
anyways, ill get the channel back on track and ask about something i was thinking about suggesting
i was wondering what you guys think of the brimlash buster in its current state?
zealous ridge
sand umbra
* (Well. This is an emotional conundrum.)
elder mist
pretty sure all of vanilla rev+ bosses are more pushovers than ML, at least from my experience
hollow idol
foggy plover
ml isnt that easy lol, and it's on fabs list of things he wants to change already isnt it?
elder mist
I barely had to prepare for LC i just tackled on a couple of survivability accs and voila
sand umbra
Rev+ LC is strange to me 
he's much more powerful sure but like
he's still incredibly squishy
foggy plover
lol yeah true melee shreds him
sand umbra
foggy plover
LC is fine rn imo
elder mist
yeah i dont think a single vanilla rev+ boss is less of a pushover than ML
mechs included
sand umbra
gonna that as well
sand umbra
Destroyer exists
(although his homing lasers got nerfed in a sense so like hmmm)
elder mist
destroyer is piss easy
foggy plover
^
foggy plover
I agree completely with ml p2 needing a rework but I eyes are kinda shit
elder mist
true eyes are not coming back because the whole point of rev ML update was to remove the RNG of the fight
aka the true eyes desyncing
vocal grotto
I mean, why can't they be reworked from the ground up?
foggy plover
only way eyes would come back would be synced eyes and I dont think thats gonna happen cuz maso already does that
sand umbra
Infernum ML comes to mind
bitter drift
LAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGG I HATE YOU
that's what i get for staying awake at 2:30 PM or is AM?
vocal grotto
But yeah, the main problem with changing ML is navigating the fucker's code imo.
If the eyes were to be changed, it'd probably be best if they got completely new AIs.
foggy plover
mls a shitshow right?
vocal grotto
It's... really complex and hard to understand
Unless you dedicate a lot of time to it
bitter drift
also i would be fine with changing the eyes completely
sand umbra
it makes me fear the day I inevitably start effectively rewriting him
bitter drift
hell i have an idea for a buffed ML fight that fit death perfectly
too bad you can't suggest specific things
queen delta
I heard if a value goes too high in one of the acos codes, the arms just despawn iirc
thats how bad the code is
sand umbra
meme
bitter drift
and it's not like i hate the changes completely they just waisted so so much potential and it's changes are so lazy that it's intolerable
elder mist
basically ML was made without any thought that someone would delve into the code in mind
sand umbra
sounds about right
elder mist
a rework on true eyes would do the job so long as they dont have their main flaw
hell
sand umbra
could probably make the same argument on a lot of other Terraria code tbf
elder mist
even keeping the same theme and attacks but just making sure that their attacks would be synced everytime a new true eye spawns would already fix 90% of the issues
bitter drift
i wonder if you can make a few different TEoC that do different things
sand umbra
honestly Ein that alone would be like
the godliest change
un-eviscerating the eyes but guaranteeing that you cannot desync them
bitter drift
wouldn't that be easier thing to do even in this ML fight?
queen delta
I think just bringing back true EoCs and getting them to always sync would be the best thing
elder mist
no it wouldnt be easier
queen delta
Just look at infernum ML
elder mist
because actually making them sync would be all kinds of aids
queen delta
True EoCs was basically the main part of the fight
bitter drift
forget sync
vocal grotto
That still leaves a void in potential though, if they're only synced.
I feel more could be added and some annoying parts could be removed
Make them more unique
elder mist
like i imagine the easiest route would be the true eyes to be spawned at the very beginning but somehow not activated i.e. no attacks and no contact damage
bitter drift
not only this one of many idea i can vomit into the suggestion box
queen delta
Well, I do kinda agree that current ML is kinda lacking
I never enjoyed p1, and I certainly dont enjoy an extended p1
sand umbra
ML is in a really strange spot currently
elder mist
p2 is easily more aids than p1 will ever be tbh
bitter drift
the entire fight is P1
sand umbra
he lacks the randomness of the fight, yes...but at what cost
sand umbra
mhm
elder mist
if you have xeroc wings you pratically have the entire fight covered
queen delta
P2 is pretty aids but its more entertaining than p1
sand umbra
it's basically Golem/Ravager again except the parts don't actually stop attacking when you kill them
vocal grotto
But why settle for either?
elder mist
at least im not dying randomly
"randomly"
at least im not dying because attacks clash with eachother*
thats the main fault of the vanilla fight, attacks clash with eachother
bitter drift
another idea i had was when the top eye would be killed instead the eye opening up to fire a big spinning laser, the eye would fire a couple smaller not moving lasers forcing you to stop for the attack more or less
zenith hazel
pretty sure Fab already planned out some death ML changes but hasn't implemented them yet
because rn, it's just faster deathray speed and not much else afaik
bitter drift
ok i hope it will be good
the last ML was much better
zenith hazel
should I post it here? it's in dev server
elder mist
n
bitter drift
oh the change is just a faster death ray?
that doesn't sound good at all
zenith hazel
alright then you can look back in chat history and you can find it
vocal grotto
I'd absolutely love to be able to improve ML again if possible. But yeah, hopefully the planned changes are good.
bitter drift
hopes are in the air
elder mist
oh ok i saw what it is
yeah its death mode only
oh well, another change i wont experience
ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
bitter drift
can you post it?
elder mist
no
sand umbra
Death-only changes
zealous ridge
le thing id love to see is having ml summon his true eocs every like 15 seconds or whatever after the core is exposed so theyre on a timer with their attacks
bitter drift
that's a pet
bitter drift
hey that's a pet lol
zealous ridge
what
bitter drift
you want a summon of it?
zealous ridge
...no
bitter drift
:/
elder mist
sand umbra
having ML summon his true EoCs every like 15 seconds or whatever
you want a summon of it?
zealous ridge
what
sand umbra
now hold on just a minute 
zealous ridge
im so confused
bitter drift
i think we all are
zealous ridge
bitter drift
zealous ridge
okay, so we remember vanilla ml, how his eyes pop out of their sockets and begin attacking independently
bitter drift
ya?
zealous ridge
im saying re-introduce them to the rev+ fight, but having them not come out basically at random and have their attacks insanely desynced... perhaps some improvements to the true eoc's individual attacks
for instance fuck multiple death rays
bitter drift
xD oh god no i don't like the way this goes
zealous ridge
god damn it why does no one like ml's floating eyes
bitter drift
they are fast with a large hit box
gusty geode
Imo it's important to keep in mind that not just ML, but the entire Lunar Event probably wasn't made with balance in mind
It was made to be the end of the game, so they just threw in every crazy gimmick they could think of
Then made sure it was beatable
That's my theory anyway
zealous ridge
hmm
bitter drift
LOL that's true
zealous ridge
i agree
bitter drift
zealous ridge
but i dont think that means ML is literally never going to be a fun fight
bitter drift
ya we should make it fun
gusty geode
Like
Has nobody noticed that literally all of the Pillars (except maybe Stardust) have at least one broken mechanic to them
zealous ridge
stardust can be nasty too
sand umbra
Solar has like
five
all of the Solar PIllar enemies synergize really well with each other and are all also really strong on their own individual merits
which is good for them, just. not so much for you
sand umbra
Stardust is just meme
gusty geode
You reduce the Stardust to stardust
zealous ridge
each one has something fucky about it
nebula floaters are so horrible and predictors make dodging floaters restrictive
storm diver comboes into distorted really easily and its really hard to do anything about it and if you don't do anything for a little bit it becomes instantly unviable to try and kill anything
crawltipedes keep you on the ground, srollers and drakomires make the floor dangerous, corites make cheesing impossible, and selenians literally make you regret dealing damage
twinkles deal insane damage if you don't pay attention to them and flow invaders can catch you off guard with their missiles
point is... yeah the moon events are really wack
potent veldt
@bitter drift I agree with you on the fact that Death ML isn't really original or interesting, but I also think that the suggestion is too long
Cut like, half of those other-boss-examples out of it
I think King Slime to Skeletron is all you need to keep, personally
gusty grail
teal ibex
i mean that should warrant one suggestion
teal ibex
i still don't see the need for three very similar suggestions over it tho?
well i guess shucks' is just about the drop bug rather than the ai, i misread it at first
void kelp
tho it does ask for AI rework in a sense
I assume the reason why the same stuff that grants rev AI compat w the rest of the bosses doesnโt work w ML is because ML has unique AI
ashen warren
This is not related at all to the chat, but at this point Iโm surprised โAdd a config option to ______โ is not a donโt at this point
shell lynx
Letโs get moon lord spawning the worst enemies from each lunar pillar
radiant meadow
god no
ashen warren
Youโre so evil
shell lynx
It would be so terrible
ashen warren
Exactly. Therefore, no.
void kelp
it wouldnโt be a challenge itโd just be annoying
shell lynx
Mostly just unfair from crawltipedes hounding you
queen delta
echo pond
Didn't ML used to spawn Eidolists?
echo pond
Yeah I remember the True Eyes, but I first fought ML after the Eidolists were removed
radiant meadow
the eidolists were a bitch that basically prevented you from sticking close to moon lord
wary canyon
also eidolists in that fight make 0 sense lore wise
ashen warren
I suppose so were the true eyes, which is likely purpose for their removal
I honestly miss it though.
sacred imp
does verdant need a nerf? I killed rev polterghast in 1:41
radiant meadow
it's getting a nerf next update
sacred imp
thatโs interesting
ashen warren
Iโll always love Solar Flare the most out of the three
sacred imp
I liked verdant because it rekt rev polterghast in 1 min 41
zenith hazel
well good news, solar flare is getting nerfed too
fervent citrus
Ono
Cuz the game rn is too easy 
K, the formatting aint the best
Any advice?
indigo fog
There will be more hooks at some point
fervent citrus
wait, i forgot to disscuss it here
indigo fog
I'm pretty sure serpents bite wont be the only hook calamity adds
no need to suggest it
fervent citrus
Oh
copper junco
Miiiight have been suggested before, loads of times actually, but it would still be a great addition to the mod and im trying to make this highly suggested
radiant meadow
I think a wulfrum hook would be obtainable too early
sand umbra
as long as I don't hear the 103956709276th Polter hook I really don't care what hook suggs get posted tbf, as I support any of them
copper junco
I have no idea could it be possible, but one ad to this idea : might be interesting, if hard-mode hooks have effect to other players/mobs
sand umbra
GIVE ME MY DoG HEAD HOOK OR GIVE ME DEATH
fervent citrus
Which is why it would be practically useless
copper junco
for example u can hook enemy with chaotic hook and make it burn
frosty dagger
Some hook ideas I haven't heard:
Unholy hook (post provi), makes an aura of unhorly fire around you for a couple seconds after release and during duration
Dragon hook (post phase one Yharon) almost instantly brings you to location, and when you release you get instant almost max speed
Shadow hook (post Scal), kills normal enimies on contact
Wulfrum hook would be blatantly overpowered
indigo fog
Shadow hook sounds like the name of a corruption-themed hook
radiant meadow
bobbit hook
frosty dagger
Shadowspec bars
brittle merlin
worm
distant gyro
there's profaned energy hook idea but not a bobbit worm hook
fervent citrus
Eidolon hook 
distant gyro
pensive
radiant meadow
there is?
fervent citrus
?
distant gyro
some peep over at some certain expansion mod server
radiant meadow
oh so not relevant
fervent citrus
Aqua hook, from giant clam 
radiant meadow
and commit uunlazy
sand umbra
DoG head hook when I learn how to make hooks
and don't have 5 billion other things to accomplish first but shhhh
queen delta
How about a polterghast hook that's basically an upgrade to bat hook
with same function as dual hook
ashen warren
suggested before
indigo fog
ashen warren
why not just make a music box slot
golden narwhal
am i the only one who places music boxes
indigo fog
why not just make a music box slot
That's more work. just make it affect vanity
ashen warren
but vanity is supposed to be shown on ur character
or for quick swapping
People should care more about their in game char looks smh
tepid root
theres a mod that does that already iirc
lemme get its name
Better Music Boxes
kind of an obvious name dunno how i forgot lol
ashen warren
It's a single slot
Thats like saying i can just include a question in a topic u havent learnt yet in an exam, โits just oneโ
ashen warren
am i talking about difficulty of implementation right now?
ashen warren
It is easier but it doesnt make sense
loud steeple
How exactly?
ashen warren
As vanity slots name suggests...
Also how about people who have multiple music boxes in vanity so they can switch to whatever they want in the main slot/put in back in invent?
loud steeple
Make it so only 1 can be equiped at once?
vital marlin
idk to me it does make sense for music to be in vanity
ashen warren
ok but that doesnt make it suitable to be in vanity slot
indigo fog
btw you don't need to suggest this because apparently there's another mod that does this
loud steeple
Well izzy
By that logic,there's no reason for the cosmolight to be a thing since "other mods have it "
ashen warren
also the Visibility toggle is for the main slot bruh
thats different
every mod has its own way of changing time
vital marlin
yeah i know visibility is for the main slot
indigo fog
Someone just typed "Yeet" in #suggestions-voting and deleted it immediately
...anyway I don't see why the speed can't be changed
It has a use time of 35 so i can see why this would be annoying
sand umbra
any usetime longer than 24-25 for summon weps is cringe
ashen warren
it should have res butterfly swing speed
its 1/2 anyways
but wait only 20+
i csn get up to 38 of them
frosty dagger
sly lily
I mean, I didn't count them, but like... 9 with 3 acc, plus 2 with the hybrid one, plus the armor... still at Yharon though, I know I can get MORE slots eventually xD (but then again there are better weapons later on from what I read)
ah, should've posted the suggestion here first according to title... the channel is listed after the "suggestions" one so uh, I didn't know sorry!
indigo fog
There are apparently a ton of weapons with the same slow use time, according to the wiki
all of these have 35 use time or lower
i sorted them in that order
sly lily
yeah, when a large number of slots isn't a thing it isn't THAT annoying, but once you get the 3 statis items...
Calamari is a "oh well" kind of deal, but those lil phantoms is kind of extreme due to the half slot
tepid root
tbh yeah just speed up all summoning staves' usetime
it makes no sense for it to be this high
sly lily
perhaps it could be added to an accessory? one of the Statis?
indigo fog
Speeding up the weapons?
sly lily
yeah, adding that property
perhaps add it to the Shadowflame and start that from Curse?
and have it stack further with Belt
that way you don't change all summons and it isn't exploited by other classes?
except perhaps Rogue, but only a bit due to only the Belt
indigo fog
It could be an armor set bonus instead, since it's not locking it behind an accessory
sly lily
from Tarragon onwards?
indigo fog
then again, classless sets exist
sly lily
well... I don't use Omega '_'u
there's Fearmonger
1 tier up, but still
(and I think it is a weird set? but I haven't experimented with it)
versed tundra
It's a set with two main quirks: you only regen using the tentacles (and instant health potions), especially once you press the berserk button and you get good damage on all weapons.
bitter drift
it's a glass canon set that was made for death mode doge @versed tundra
also vampiric talisman of rogue still works with it
versed tundra
Do you have proof to support this?
That it was made FOR death mode?
IMO it performs very well in all dificulties
bitter drift
not balance wise
but it strange for me that the only armor with no automatic life regen is also at the only boss that have an instant kill as a must (at least yharon made instant kills that stay in place keeping you in an arena)
zenith hazel
yes but its tentacles have lifesteal
and it's a glass cannon set, you're not expected to be surviving much in the first place so the life regen is unnecessary
timid pawn
Make all enemies count towards celestial shields (not statue enemeies) Reason:Sometimes the enemies of the biome the celesital pillar is in keep spawning and the celestial enemies doesn't spawn much.Example: It took me 15 min to defeat the stardust pillar cuz it was in the astral infection and astral infection enemies kept spawning
worthy fiber
Wasn't that something patched a while back? Does it still happen now?
timid pawn
No
worthy fiber
Referring to the astral enemy spawns
timid pawn
Oh they spawn
frail mantle
Thatโs a bug
tepid root
im pretty sure thats hectique's calamity randomizer
earnest raptor
It is.
tepid root
anyways does that count as sorta of a meme suggestion 
frail mantle
SCal with a flamethrower sounds immensely painful
tepid root
also no reasoning lol
void kelp
I Donโt Think Thats A Valid Reason
frail mantle
And not even the fun kind of painful, the โwhat the fuck is this shit this is fucking dumbโ kind of painful
tepid root
frail mantle
earnest raptor
zenith hazel
yeah no
plucky matrix
Flamethrower seems like something that wouldn't fit into her fight at all
zenith hazel
scal already spams projectiles to death already
frail mantle
fervent citrus
Hmm, maybe add more features to the brimstone crags? Or at least some lore
foggy plover
wdym some lore?
frail mantle
Crag rework is planned iirc
fervent citrus
Cause the biome is rather importan- oh
By lore i meant...
...lore
But i guess thats dumb cuz there already is
But some more story behind it would be interesting
Btw what is included in the rework?
zealous ridge
Hey quacka,
the boss rush has what is akin to the super boss version of devourer of gods
radiant meadow
@green sand boss suggestions like that are disallowed
zealous ridge
And also, i think something like that is like a boss suggestion, yeah
worn salmon
hallow kraken
You saw these tubular and cool things called the pins right?
zealous ridge
well I mean he already technically is a final boss
radiant meadow
Because we already have plans for new bosses
zealous ridge
and making a stronger dog would mean making. What is basically a new boss
With all the balancing shenanigans
zealous ridge
Bruh
tepid root
discord was dying for me lol
austere lion
I thought boss suggestions weren't allowed
radiant meadow
They're not
cyan lagoon
The staff already handled it
green sand
Welp, sorry, I thought putting in a boss suggestion would be allowed in the suggestion channel
cyan lagoon
Just a reminder for next time @green sand
green sand
Where does it say itโs not allowed?
zealous ridge
Yeah itโs fine, really
Thereโs the pins
Look at those
Little thumbtack at the top
cyan lagoon
radiant meadow
Rules are listed in #suggestions-voting pins
cyan lagoon
Though imo i dont like it being characterized as the holy rules of thou
green sand
Lol I have no clue where the pins are on mobile :/
radiant meadow
Click the three dots
In the upper right hand corner
Then select Pinned messages
zealous ridge
There are guidelines because letting people suggest anything in the past has lead to a lot of pointless suggestions with too large a scope to be properly implemented
Swipe to the left from here and youโll see a thumbtack in the top bar
Click that either in this channel or in the suggestions chat
green sand
Oh wait I found it
tepid root
im pretty sure youll still die instantly if they dragged you back in anyways, whether because of contact damage or anything else, yharon is just too fast
this message doesnt even matter because skoores doesnt give a shit about this channel
scenic crypt
the drag is enough to kill you, theres not a need for contact damage. yharon is too fast
ashen warren
ok can
ashen warren
No
Thats a horrible idea, the border tornado are cool
you remove the border torandos have fun fighting him enraged buddy!
sand umbra
implying you can't...add other ways to visually tell an enrage
calm onyx
Boring idea: Give Yharon's arena a solid block border like scal.
sand umbra
the border tornadoes are only "cool" from a purely visual perspective
from a gameplay and design perspective they are actual ass
frail mantle
i'm assuming that removing the arenanadoes would also mean adding either something else to show where he enrages/removing the enrage entirely
calm onyx
No smelly tornadoes to yeet yourself into and ruin good Yharon attempts.
tired haven
Well, by the time you would notice that visual tell yharon might have spilt your guts all around the jungle
ashen warren
xD
that is true crab
thats why you dont use sniper rifile to TP
because you can TP out of it by accident
yharon but his arena is a giant ring of fireballs that drag you in and hurt you if you try to escape 
happened a couple of times, but if you wanna use last prism for the whole fight then you r all good
sand umbra
I've never heard of anyone using the Rifle Scope's zoomout to prep a teleport ever
calm onyx
How does one use a sniper rifle to tp?
tired haven
Normality relocator, I suppose
ashen warren
^
calm onyx
Oh duh. I forget that item exists.
ashen warren
I think it also works if u dual wield?
sand umbra
doesn't the screen shit itself and go black for a moment if you teleport to an offscreen location
sand umbra
well then there's your problem
ashen warren
its not if I dont tp while fighting yharon
since there really is no need just die 100 times
and you will win eventually ๐
sand umbra
...but you just
I was
wh
...okay, that's enough confusion for one discussion
calm onyx
You can never have enough confusion in a conversation.
ashen warren
true
sly lily
Is the black screen on purpose or processing from the game?
calm onyx
Seems like an odd thing to make a feature.
ashen warren
Ive actually have never used ROD while fighting SCAL
I've only used ROD so far attempting DAD DOG and death mode calamitas with summoner
sly lily
I haven't fought SCal yet, but if you are good at the mod doesnt mean imo that a blackout when snipe teleporting is a good thing when other arena limits exist already, being snipe teleporting already a (imo again) cumbersome maneuver
sly lily
That's what I wanted to know, if it was vanilla or not xD
tired haven
Oh, you asked above, I see
sly lily
Wonder if 1.4 will remove that