I'll adjust supernova and celestus recipes I guess 
#suggestions-discussion
radiant meadow
added penumbra and star of destruction to supernova
replaced phantasmal ruin and shattered sun w/ alpha virus and enchanted axe for celestus
lost agate
Re: other items have the same issue as treads
I thought the point of adding hallowed bars was because it was holy themed
toxic kettle
That's just Death mode for you, you chose to play it, deal with it
lost agate
H
robust lava
Also if it’s things like Blood Moon, or Mech Bosses, you can always craft Daylight as soon as you enter Hardmode and use that to skip them
ashen warren
Bro shit yeah I forgot that that exists
hallow kraken
Remove random events?
ashen warren
Yeah not completly tho
Can we at least discuss having nighttime bosses spawn when the night is almost over?
It’s quite pointless
No but its not
If youre farming
subtle oracle
Just kill them quickly 4Head
ashen warren
Well if you haven’t beaten the boss yet, how can you be expected to do so in one minute?
void kelp
rng
ashen warren
Most people will just go underground, then come back in a couple minutes. No matter how you stack it, it’s a waste of time.
lost agate
If theres a way to check in game time it should be a simple as adding a check of it being between 7:30 pm and smth like 1 AM
In code i mean
lost agate
Then go for it
Smth like Make random boss spawns on death mode that depend on time be on a more limited time period rather than only checking if its day or night
ashen warren
I’m supposed to check with this chat to see if enough people would actually want that and if it doesn’t break a rule.
lost agate
- I would like it personally
- dont see how that would break any rule
quick ice
I'd also support that, since it gives people a better chance of beating the bosses
radiant meadow
Tell me how to check exact time and I'll consider
lost agate
Ofc this is on the assumption redcode isnt about to meme all over us
lost agate
Wew
lost agate
I dont exactly know how to check time but, perhaps its a variable on Main
fireblossom's wack ass blooming method is being useful, wew
lost agate
Yeah
ashen warren
I thought around 9.30
radiant meadow
But that might just be a timer
ashen warren
I imagine it would be something like, “Something is approaching” cannot prock for nighttime bosses past, say 10:30
tawny gyro
no
radiant meadow
I don't see why
radiant meadow
Check the recipe in game
tawny gyro
wait
radiant meadow
Before I explode and die
tawny gyro
don't tell me it actually does
tawny gyro
aight, i'm dumb
tawny gyro
that'd explain a lot
radiant meadow
I did it for supernova
tawny gyro
thank
radiant meadow
I'm 10 steps ahead of you
dense nebula
So why exactly isnt there a Hardmode Bar helmet for Rogue?
ashen warren
Because no one’s bothered to make it
dense nebula
Clearly lmao
worthy fiber
Why do that when you can make an entirely new set
(I'm guessing that's what the Sulphurous armor may be for)
dense nebula
It seems like they're trying to seamlessly integrate rogue into the line up of all other classes.
Not giving them an equivalent Helm makes rogue the odd man out.
Also limits your pre-boss armor choices to just Adamantite/titanium-Melee sets or I guess Mollusk Armor.
toxic kettle
Mollusk 
dense nebula
Agreed lol
lost agate
Summoner is already an odd one out
dense nebula
That's a very good point actually, I forgot about summoner lol.
All they got is Spider armor pre boss.
IMO they should both get a bar helm.
dense nebula
You can't blame me for forgetting forbidden lol, I don't think i've ever seen that armor set in game.
tepid root
i personally prefer unique armors for classes, having one armor and multiple helmets for like everything can be pretty wacky
hallow kraken
See what summoner needs is a chlorophyte tier armor
lost agate
Tiki kind of
tired haven
i even know the perfect name for such chloro armor
"blooming idiots" 
No idea tbh
Doesn't seem like it does
radiant meadow
I think Vai actually was making them
But they weren't sheeted and Vai left the team
hollow shell
Well sheeting helmets isn't hard at all
hallow kraken
I have two possible sugs, both regarding tiki’s relationship with spooky armor
small talon
I'd say for the shark and cthulhunsdos that in prehardmode they shouldn't shoot any sharks
tawny gyro
honestly i've been wondering, if there was a 2nd exo-tier summoner weapon, should it be a minion (to fill up the slots Cosmic Immaterialiser leaves) or a sentry (cuz there's like, 0 endgame sentries)?
hallow kraken
Suggestion A: Make it so that the witch doctor sells tiki armor after calamitas has been killed.
As the wise philosopher Thomas once said, “Calamitas needs more reasons to be killed.” Tiki armor is currently outperformed by spooky wood due to spooky wings now removing the intended drawback of spooky wood granting one less minion than tiki. Additionally, with the existence of umbraphile armor, summoner is now the only class that lacks an armor set for plantera. Moving tiki to post cal would fix both issues.
ashen warren
wtf is sharknado in prehm
tepid root
death mode
tepid root
shadknadoes can spawn naturally in the ocean and cthulhunadoes can spawn naturally if its raining in the ocean
ashen warren
gud meme
tepid root
its kinda 
in prehm
ashen warren
a
hallow kraken
Suggestion B: Remove spooky wings granting one extra minion slot (but keep the damage boost) and make it so that wearing tiki armor and leaf wings grant an extra slot.
In vanilla, the intended drawback of wearing spooky wood instead of tiki is one less minion slot. However, spooky wings remove that drawback, making spooky wood outperform tiki from almost every stat except defense. Making leaf wings grant an extra slot and not spooky would make tiki viable when compared to spooky wood.
So which would be better?
terse sundial
leaf wings don't have a set bonus because of how easy they are to obtain
ashen warren
its not that easy actually
terse sundial
nor an augmentation
tepid root
have a house in prehm lol
terse sundial
we decided that in the dev server back in early October
you can still make the suggestion, opinions may have changed since then
hallow kraken
I think sug A would be better
terse sundial
suggestion A is fine, I have no real issue with it
sand umbra
As the wise philosopher Thomas once said
flattery will get you nowhere...but I appreciate it nonetheless 
radiant meadow
Maybe leaf wings give bonus to tiki armor
Tiki armor isn't early hardmode
So it won't be as terrible as pre nerf frozen wings
sand umbra
pre-nerf Frozen Wings synergy 
radiant meadow
I don't see a huge issue with it
sand umbra
personally I wouldn't mind Leaf Wings granting a Tiki Armor synergy
radiant meadow
I don't think tiki armor should be sold post clone though
sand umbra
agreed
radiant meadow
Calamitas needs unique stuff
radiant meadow
And calamitas doesn't fit the witch doctor thematics at all
hallow kraken
hmst
ashen warren
also when a buffed Entrophy's Vigil that summon Scal and her Brothers?
radiant meadow
Never
ashen warren
just kidding
ashen warren
yes i know that a summon weapon that summons Scal and her brothers will never be added to the mod
karmic stone
@terse sundial meme sugg
finite relic
I didn’t post a meme if I did I didn’t know it was a meme
hollow idol
Boss sugs are in the donts even if it was serious
terse sundial
"devourer of slimes" seems like a meme to most people
and also having it be post-yharim who isn't out yet
hallow kraken
Should I post Suggestion B?
cyan lagoon
Tbh make damage overtime debuffs more useful in general
In postml you have weapons that inflict on fire which is unnoticable
Its decent early on but then it just sucks
ashen warren
It's not just for ''usefulness''.
It's also for thematic's sake.
And to diversify them and make debuffs actually useful and noticable, instead of just ''oh, it burns them''.
But in the end, I genuinely just feel like you could do much more with debuffs and make them actually pop out and be more than they already are.
frail mantle
yea most debuffs tend to be just DoTs and often happen to not even have that good DoT
ashen warren
Imagine if Shadowflame did a DoT but also ''shadowed'' their vision?
So, if Spazmatism started firing lasers at you, they were skewing away and sometimes missing, because it can't see well.
Or something that did damage based on their max health, or based on current health.
The former doing more damage vs enemies that were really beefy all around, and the latter doing good consistent damage to enemies that were already healthy.
So just for comparison, let's say a Slime has 1000 HP and your debuff inflicts 10% of his current health.
That's 100 damage. 900 health, right?
Now, the next debuff would only do 90 damage.
810 hp, 81 damage. These are all very crude calculations and obviously shouldn't do that much damage, but you get the idea.
gusty geode
Problem there is
If you're gonna make these debuffs do that to enemies
Kinda have to make them do that to players too
I'm not against it personally but others might be
Debuffs that actually hinder the player haven't been well-received in the past afaik
See Obstructed, Distorted, Confused, Slow
distant gyro
I think the main reason for the overly large amount of debuffs is for difference in visual effects
because that's just fundamentally terraria
you can't make something icy inflict orange fire, that just looks wrong
ashen warren
Obviously not, but why have ice actually inflict fire in the first place?
I get it, frostburn, haha, funny.
But that's so uncreative. It's just..fire, but blue.
distant gyro
go complain to re-logic 
gusty geode
Webbed, Feral Bite, Broken Armor
Could go on
ashen warren
There's so much room for actual creativity here.
Also, no they don't.
There are plenty of debuffs that are player exclusive.
distant gyro
likewise
gusty geode
My point is
From what I've seen people don't like debuffs that actually matter
Was listing examples
tired haven
Frostburn isn't exclusive tho
distant gyro
when crab proposed oiled to be inflicted to the player with king slime's lore item on as a downside, fab responds that oiled can't be inflicted onto the player
also shadowflame in source is literally a recreation of shadowflame in itself
ashen warren
What Calamity mobs inflicts Frostburn?
distant gyro
calamity shadowflame uses a different shadowflame from vanilla shadowflame
tired haven
At very least DoG
ashen warren
Dog inflicts Frostburn? Weird.
tired haven
There may be other enemies but that one is enough
tepid root
why does dog inflict two DoTs 
tired haven
They stack so why not
ashen warren
Look, my point is that I really feel like debuffs should be more than just a really bad DoT.
tepid root
kinda wacky
ashen warren
Like, who the fuck cares about On Fire!
toxic kettle
ngl I never noticed the Darkness debuff after getting hit by DoG
ashen warren
At the very least, make them scale.
toxic kettle
it's like it's not there
gusty geode
Weren't they planning to either remove that or buff it to Blackout/Obstructed
ashen warren
It is there, you just can't see it because you got inflicted with darkness.
tepid root
distant gyro
gusty geode
If the goal is to make it so the player can't see
Obstructed would probably be the way to go imo
toxic kettle
what if DoG instead gave you a debuff that warps your vision by a bit so everything is actually e.g. a bit further right or left than it looks on screen, making dodging harder
gusty geode
So basically
What was that one debuff from MC
toxic kettle
Nausea?
gusty geode
Yeah that
ashen warren
DoG giving like a trippy effects might also work
toxic kettle
DoG giving Odd Mushroom effect 
sand umbra
inb4 getting drunk inflicts Nausea
potent veldt
The logic behind that is the same logic that makes alcohol difficult to get rid of compared to every potion in the game
hollow idol
But a planetoid can contain a full armor’s worth amount of Plat/Gold preboss
potent veldt
I'm fine with Floating Islands grabbing some of the hardmode/boss ore gen
That way there's a reason to go to them after HM
hollow idol
Cinder Sunlight essence farming
potent veldt
Also, bruh, I can remove a literal Dragon Elixer from my body with a right click, but alcohol is too potent for me to get rid of?
ashen warren
@hollow idol Which are difficult to reach due to Harpies likely being too strong for you pre-boss.
Also, Gold/Plat is..honestly pretty common to farm.
The Underground is arguably easier to navigate and safer too.
not to mention space layer is pretty hard to access in death now
well not hard, but you cant go there as soon as b4
potent veldt
There's little reason to even go to the space layer in preHM, tbh
gusty geode
I forget, does Aerilite generate up there
potent veldt
Which is why I'm fine with other ores genning up there
gusty geode
Iirc that was because there wasn't enough blocks up there
Planetoids might make that less of a problem tho
ashen warren
It's a completely forgettable place for the rest of the game, up until Post-ML.
Giving you at least a new ore up there would make it worth checking out.
woeful ginkgo
even pre boss you can get victide armor instead so yeah
gusty geode
On the other hand
Could even have Aerilite generate
In the air
Just floating chunks of it everywhere
potent veldt
^^^
It makes more sense thematically, and it's not like it's more of a hassle
You have to go up there for the Sky Mill already
ashen warren
It kind of is if it's pre-boss.
But then again..
If you manage to survive and gain Aerilite way before you should be, then you should be rewarded.
gusty geode
Doesn't it only generate post-HM/Perfs anyway
potent veldt
It does
ashen warren
having aeralite generating in game and generating like that sounds like it would be buggy af
Aerilite doesn't generate post-HM.
gusty geode
Spirit did it just fine
frail mantle
it does
ashen warren
It does? But why?
frail mantle
HM as in Hive Mind, not Hardmode
ashen warren
It's a worthless ore post-HM.
potent veldt
Ketamin, Squid meant Hive Mind
potent veldt
Bamboozled
woeful ginkgo
or move the astral ore from the astral biome and make it generate into the floating island
potent veldt
That doesnt make much sense
frail mantle
^
potent veldt
The Astral biome is meant to have originated from the meteor that fell
It doesn't need to be in the space layer
Because, the meteor fell
woeful ginkgo
ah I thought it was supposed to be in space because of the lore item from aureus
potent veldt
Nah
woeful ginkgo
gusty geode
Spirit even managed to make loot chests generate on the blocks that spawned in the air
Blocks themselves shouldn't be hard
potent veldt
Aureus just, is from space
ashen warren
Either way, I think our point stands clear?
Just have Floating Islands and Space be more than just an alternate place to gain some ore, Sky Mill and Souls of Flight.
Man, not even good ore.
You can find it easily Underground.
lost agate
Also, bruh, I can remove a literal Dragon Elixer from my body with a right click, but alcohol is too potent for me to get rid of?
you can remove that but you also cant remove some bat microbes at will
This game is weird
sand umbra
Feral Bite makes me pensive
can't gain immunity to it and it's super annoying in early game 
random Cursed infliction be like
lost agate
Only explanation is that youre always carrying some strong ass laxatives or smth
potent veldt
what
hollow idol
potent veldt
Who in the hell
potent veldt
He's determined
lost agate
Didnt even take the time to correct the misspeling
potent veldt
Probably a bot, ngl
ashen warren
What.
wooden wedge
@past inlet that isn't a suggestion
ashen warren
He's said !verfiy 7 times in several channels.
Sandstone don't even ping them.
It's a bot.
lost agate
@tiny rose heya we got a situation
tiny rose
Hello
wooden wedge
hi
potent veldt
Greetings
wooden wedge
now kill.
tiny rose
What's up
lost agate
Some dude spammed smth in like half the chats
wooden wedge
look in sugs
potent veldt
Look at half of the channels lol
potent veldt
We don't even have a bots section, idk what he's doing
woeful ginkgo
and MP channel
ashen warren
@past inlet This one.
lost agate
Thanks jess
wooden wedge
lost agate
Thanke
wooden wedge
thank you jess
tiny rose
❤️
radiant meadow
lilac mountain
Spam is kil
lost agate
Anywho, piercing will always be better than non piercing for worms, so unless an on tier weapon is killing dog in 2 minutes i think its fine
potent veldt
An on-tier weapon has.
Halley's Inferno with bloodflare armor for me decimated his Phase 1 in 48 seconds.
lost agate
Well yes phase one doesnt take too long
potent veldt
His Phase 2 also was fast as well, fast enough sometimes where I'd only end up seeing one laser wall.
lost agate
And i mean, even if the blood flares hit hard, theyre slow so hitting the head with those aint that easy
potent veldt
I'm aware, but the problem is that you don't need to.
hearty yew
@potent veldt opinion question: is venusian trident part of the problem
potent veldt
Could be, but I've never tested that one specifically
hearty yew
ok
because it's like turbo inferno fork and has huge AoE damage but doesn't slaughter DoG last I checked
lost agate
Ya know
potent veldt
Hitting his body with a Halley bloodsplosion does around 10% of his health, btw. Consistently.
potent veldt
^^^
lost agate
For these kind of suggs it would be neat to at least show your gear
potent veldt
I sugged about them before, but it didn't get noticed much.
bitter drift
@potent veldt i'm on DoG
i use piercing weapons
and still dead by the 2nd phase
potent veldt
I already completed the playthrough for Ranger, so showing my exact loadout isn't exactly easy rn
bitter drift
i'm rogue
lost agate
Well try to at least remember it
potent veldt
But I believe I mainly just used the usual necessities, like Tracers, Deadalus, etc.
I wasn't using anything particularly cheesy, and I always get Warding on everything.
lost agate
Any gear from other mods?
potent veldt
Nope.
I don't crossmod except for obvious small QoL ones.
Like, Magic Storage or something.
I screenshotted the dps of a single Halley bloodsplosion before, btw
lost agate
Well, in any case, to me it looks like a check to the blood flare and maybe halleys is neccesary, not a blanket piercing nerf
lost agate
Then try again
potent veldt
This thing
frail mantle
testing things on super dummies kinda meme doe
potent veldt
I'll go actually test it out again then
tired haven
Now for the fun part
Single seadragon bloodsplosion will proc once in a few seconds
Single halley's inferno bloodsplosion will happen... once in a minute
(and both will result in +-same damage boost over time)
potent veldt
No they won't.
The bloodsplosion is completely rng-based. There's no consistency in when it will happen, and how long it will take for the next one to happen
It's completely realistic for it to never trigger once in an entire DoG fight. And it's also completely realistic that it will trigger tons of times throughout the fight.
tired haven
key word is over time
runic heath
Yeah but you could easily take the average amount of time it would take for one to occur by comparing probability to fire rate
potent veldt
The average isn't the problem.
runic heath
but having an rng chance to just melt a boss is kind of
tired haven
Well, now that's a lot more reasonable point
potent veldt
There's no consistency in it, despite being so incredibly powerful.
And, this isn't a new point.
This is the exact same convo I made about it last time.
Which was why my entire suggestion for it before was to increase the chance of it happening, but also add a cooldown to it
tired haven
Personally I couldn't be aware of the previous convo, but w/e then
potent veldt
tired haven
Probably could be as simple as assigning it to each x-th shot then 🤷♀️
Cooldown is cool but it would mostly hinder high fire rate weapons, which isn't the concern here
(unless it's so massive that it becomes the dominating limitation)
runic heath
so I'm guessing that the biggest issue is that the explosion procs multiple times because of the multiple segments?
bitter drift
DoG is hard enough with pirecing weapons
runic heath
but yeah if you have a flamethrower that is going to proc a 2% fairly easily isn't it?
bitter drift
and it makes the 1st phase look like an actual disguise instead of a real boss
like what this boss should be
(DoG 1st phase)
tired haven
The issue seems to be that proccing that 2% two times in a row is possible scenario and melts the fight
potent veldt
^^^
Again, the average is not the problem.
An average fight with all of this equipment is going to be extremely normal.
The problem is everything else.
tired haven
(btw halley is more of a sniper than flamethrower, due to low fire rate, roofon)
potent veldt
I'm aware.
bitter drift
well any way i'm already stuck and all of my weapons do 1 damage to DoG's 2nd phase so it should work
potent veldt
1 damage
runic heath
I'll admit I haven't played in a while, so thanks for clarifying
potent veldt
What are you using, then
bitter drift
vindication the polter rogue weapon JOO(and no i'm not trying to say Jew here i mean the Jaws Of Oblivion weapon) night's gaze
potent veldt
Vindication does like
30 per body hit, without any rogue loadout
I literally just tested it for shit n giggles
potent veldt
Or, however its spelled
bitter drift
reaper shark
bitter drift
and i'm talking about phase 2 not 1
sand umbra
completely different word
bitter drift
i feel like phase 1 should be tipped to your favor
potent veldt
Also, this is without any potions, or accessory modifiers
And is a single shot.
2% chance is dumb.
bitter drift
ok that's truly broken
runic heath
yeah that's dumb
potent veldt
That is what I'm referring to.
bitter drift
so say only this weapon
potent veldt
Do note it hits the head once.
runic heath
~~not as broken as old dumbbell ~~
bitter drift
but what tire is this weapon? pre or post DoG
potent veldt
Pre.
tired haven
Pre obv
runic heath
but yeah 6% is a bit absurd
bitter drift
OBV?
runic heath
obviously
potent veldt
Loadout in that clip, btw
Also to clarify, tested it out some more
Against Phase 2, a single bloodsplosion does about 4-5% of his HP
With all-body hits.
bitter drift
so this weapon is broken ok
frail mantle
^
bitter drift
also S P O I L E R T H I S
frail mantle
why
terse sundial
how does it fair against DoG phase 2
bitter drift
isn't this new?
potent veldt
I just said it.
runic heath
this is #suggestions-discussion I think spoiler talk is fair
frail mantle
Halley's Inferno?
potent veldt
4-5% a single splosion.
bitter drift
yes
potent veldt
With it being an all-body hit.
terse sundial
the spoiler period ended like 5 days ago
frail mantle
it ain't
bitter drift
oh
terse sundial
also halley's was released like 3 months ago
runic heath
in general is #suggestions-discussion open to spoilers or nah?
just for reference
I would assume so since it's all about what's currently in the game, but I just want to make sure
potent veldt
So yeah, official stats for a single bloodsplosion with Halley vs. DoG are:
DoG Phase 1 = 7-10%
DoG Phase 2 = 4-5%
Again, keep in mind with all of this info
I purposefully tested without any potions or accessory modifiers
tired haven
Not on-hit btw, just when you shoot
potent veldt
And there's no checks or balances on it, so none of the shots can trigger it, or all of the shots can trigger it.
It's completely rng-based.
What also makes it dumb is another stat that bloodsplosions have.
Why is this a thing.
Also worth mentioning, every other bloodflare set has some cooldown for their effects
terse sundial
I'm going to look into the calam source about this, then probably bring it up in the dev server
potent veldt
Magic gets a crit effect every two seconds
Melee gets a buff every 15 crits
Ranged just has an rng mechanic for no reason
terse sundial
In the mean time, I would rework the heading of your suggestion, as this is more of a "Nerf Bloodflare Ranger Set Bonus and Bloodsplosion" suggestion than a "Nerf Piercing Weps" suggestion
tired haven
I'd honestly say it's fine to repost if it focuses on bloodsplosion instead of any particular weapon including halley
potent veldt
Yeah but
That was the suggestion
Which is what we're referring to
If I suggest something about "nerfing bloodsplosion", that's a repost.
tired haven
"Should I repost it?"
potent veldt
I never once determined that
tired haven
Okay, got too lyrical
wait for friday
tired haven
Aether's whisper is pretty neat to check
Other than that there aren't much good candidates like halley
(or any at all, tbf)
potent veldt
Actually hang on
Does Dodu consider it's shot five bullets per shot, or five shots per trigger pull?
I'm asking because if it's five shots per trigger pull, it might trigger the 2% five times per trigger pull as well
Although, I doubt it does
tired haven
No idea tbh
Given it eats 5 bullets probably it counts as 5 chances, but that's too much spaghetti to count on
potent veldt
Well it's mainly just what the game considers it
ashen warren
Terraria is made of spaghetti so
potent veldt
Because there's weapons that spurt out multiple projectiles at once but still consider it "one shot"
Like Daemon's flame
tired haven
Shooting it like 1000 times for statistics would be sufficient to tell difference between 2% and like 9,6%
potent veldt
Fair enough
Worth mentioning btw that because the Auric Tesla armor also inherits the Bloodsplosion nonsense that it might have to be changed as well, but by then it's effect isn't as broken
Because the only time you'd ever make supreme use of it is Boss Rush or something
Why, come to think of it, I might test that out actually
tired haven
Would've said contagion but charged attacks likely don't trigger that effect more than once
potent veldt
Nah
Yeah, there's not really any slow-but-powerful weapons for ranger post-scal
So it might just not be much of an issue then
tired haven
The closest one could ever get is skipping god slayer armor in favor of bloodflare to use AMR
7k base after all
potent veldt
Yeah, maybe
tired haven
Sounds like fear of skipping yharon p1 tbf
potent veldt
But by then you're just handicapping yourself for the chance to shoot out a stupid amount of lingering damage every 2 minutes
potent veldt
A bad one
teal ibex
a space/sky shrine would be kinda nifty imo. could easily slot something in that's extremely useful prehm to encourage exploring it before wings, but making it fall off as the game gets further along so it's not a free huge buff
potent veldt
wait
runic heath
Having a shrine that's reasonable to find? preposterous!
potent veldt
I think I just realized why bloodsplosions are so broken with Halley's specifically
runic heath
high base damage?
potent veldt
Unless the wiki's wording is wrong, not only does it deal the damage of Halley, but it also deals the added damage a crit would have
Meaning, criting a shot while a bloodsplosion is fired on that shot will make the bloodsplosion count the crit damage instead of the base damage
runic heath
oh yeah I thought that said 60% of the damage of the shot fired
potent veldt
And, it just so happens, Halley has a purposefully higher crit chance than almost every other weapon
potent veldt
So Halley not only has a high base damage, but just crits far more
With along with the potential of a lingering explosion, causes Halley to sometimes just fire out a crit that stays around for too long
So bloodsplosions in terms of damage probably aren't all that bad
tired haven
Halley has standart crit tho, mhm
tired haven
P sure
potent veldt
Every time I've used it, it has like +10% crit over my other ranged weapons
tired haven
Maybe, try on a naked char
potent veldt
Yeah, wiki says it's 4%
runic heath
base 4% crit
tired haven
Something missing from wiki, not a big surprise
Could you check in game rn?
potent veldt
What.
+20% crit chance?????
For what reason.
I have no buffs, and nothing else equipped except for a Cellphone.
5% of that crit chance is the Unreal modifier.
So that means, the Halley has a 24% crit chance.
keen geyser
proficiency?
potent veldt
This is a new character.
keen geyser
interesting
potent veldt
And prof doesn't give that much, even at max.
potent veldt
Then, for one, the wiki is wrong
And secondly, yeah
Halley just is the perfect recipe for bloodsplosions to be broken
EVERYTHING about it makes them super overpowered.
tired haven
Well, actually it would be neat to see if bloodsplosion really scales damage off initial crit
tired haven
Before jumping to disaster train that is, and ye, wiki is nice and all but it can be just as wrong as with crit number right here
frail zephyr
isn't 2% chance of an extra 60% damage just a 1.2% damage increase?
potent veldt
What?
distant gyro
halley does indeed have crit += 20, fixed
frail zephyr
oh, 60% MORE. so, 2% of 160%... 3.2% increase?
runic heath
bloodexplosions proc multiple times
tired haven
It's not about damage increase rn, it's about amount of burst
(besides, bloodsplosion is a multihit, so technically it can be far more than 3%)
runic heath
Well yeah that's actually what I means, since they don't "proc" multiple times, but hit multiple times
potent veldt
Darkroot, it's a lot more complicated than that
It's rng, you can't math it all out
The best you can do is the average
teal ibex
well yeah, that's generally what he's doing
statistics is all about calculating averages
if it weren't, we'd measure crit chance as though it meant double damage, which would be wickedly spicy
but yeah, this is an issue better suited for practical testing by beta testers most likely
any math we do is just math and doesn't create objective results until it's actually put into action
runic heath
well the bonus damage is also only at a 24% chance still, but yeah it would be a 2%*24% so 0.0048 chance by default to get a crit bloodsplosion, but each part of that bloodsplosion can also crit
basically it really just is that with good rng you can melt DoG, and this isn't consistent with other bloodflare helmets
potent veldt
Yeah, which is the issue
Also, with some really dumb testing because I hate testing with rng, I can mostly confirm that bloodsplosions ignore crit
Which, makes the wiki's phrasing really awkward
Alright, yeah, bloodsplosion definitely ignores crits.
Got Halley's to 104% crit chance and the bloodsplosion still treats the damage like it's the base
tired haven
Then it just felt way better on halley due to higher crit thus higher default dps I guess
tired haven
Yeah, there is no denying it
potent veldt
For fun, I tested out the AMR with Bloodflare against DoG Phase 1
Did +40%
So, skipping God Slayer and using AMR might not be a bad idea
frail zephyr
hm, Bloodflare didn't seem to be particularly faster than Omega Blue
frail zephyr
in the seeing how long p1 dog took
then again, "seem" doesn't mean I timed. I should do it with actual timing.
frail zephyr
seadragon, I tried using Halley and fell asleep before 90%
potent veldt
This entire conversation is about Halley and Bloodsplosions, though.
frail zephyr
Weapon choice shouldn't make difference on something without an internal CD though
short of immunity frames I guess
potent veldt
Also lol, calling Seadragon better than Halley
And yes, the weapon choice is the entire point
frail zephyr
tried swapping to Halley midfight, that 10% took longer than the 30% before it
potent veldt
The conversation was specifically about how Halley's high base damage can be used to heavily abuse Bloodsplosion rng
frail zephyr
I mean, unless you're on like normal mode a string of bloodsploisons isn't going to skip anything
potent veldt
I'm not sure why you're testing, as I literally posted a gif showing how a single Halley splosion did 10% to DoG's body.
tired haven
Abuse rng is probably not the correct term
Melting on rng-dependent basis is a bit more correct
frail zephyr
I mean, my Halley shots aren't doing anything LIKE that even when they explode
frail zephyr
no, I'm trying to figure out what you're doing different.
potent veldt
I'm not doing anything different.
frail zephyr
then why is mine plinking away while yours did a 10% burst?
tired haven
The gear was shown up there iirc, so you two can compare
potent veldt
I put my loadout in this chat as well, go use that.
lost agate
(if a slow weapon didnt have decent crit chance i would be sad)
potent veldt
It should have high crit, I was just worried that it was adding to the bloodsplosion memes
frail zephyr
I scrolled up like an hour and didn't see your gear, I'm not scorlling further than that
since I probably missed it
potent veldt
I posted it two minutes after the gif, dude.
Had no potions on, and none of the accessories had any modifiers.
Worth mentioning I'm playing on Rev.
Might actually test out the damage on Death, hang on
frail zephyr
ah, HELLO, got one. Yeah, does happen occasionally!
okay, scrolled up far enough, gif was over an hour ago, thats why I didn't see it
potent veldt
Also, yeah
lost agate
Anyway, i think at this point its up to the testing team to see what adjustments the blood flare needs
potent veldt
Even in Death, Phase 1 eats a good 10%ish from a single Halleysplosion
Yeah, I agree
I'll still suggest it this friday, if it dies down again
lost agate
Halleysplosion
Im keeping that
tired haven
(i really should play a bit with that before a fix 
)
potent veldt
It's a weird fight with it all, too
Because like, Halley is pretty balanced by itself against DoG
frail zephyr
i'm not sure you get to coin a term then use it as evidence somehting is dumb enough to need a term 😛
potent veldt
But every so often the Halley will just cough and suddenly you skipped 15-30 seconds of the fight
lost agate
This kind of synergy would be ok imo if it were a little more obscure, but we are talking about a weapon and armor from the same tier and basically the same spot
tired haven
And there isn't anything really to hide it or re-purpose
potent veldt
So even if you're completely new, you can find it out easily
lost agate
Yeah its not something like, use auric armor with p90 to shred shit (not the case but an example)
frail zephyr
I mean, it still feels like you're overtstaing how ridiculous it is given how bursty it is and it only works so well on segmented enemies
potent veldt
Is that a thing?
lost agate
"not the case" so no
An actual example from another mod would be, turn on maso, spawn eow and go to space to shred him
tired haven
(would be p funny if it was)
lost agate
Its not something you discover naturally
frail zephyr
I wish p1 DoG was les boring though. I keep dying cos I'm looking at this chat during and he decides to do his once-a-fight actually targeted me
potent veldt
It's not really overstating, Darkroot, because it's a really fair and easy loadout you could just happen to use.
And it's a feature of an armor set that is already strong that has no caps or limits.
Which is the main problem
It's not often where it will be so broken, but it can be.
lost agate
Yeah, youre already using ruinous souls to make halley, why not do bloodflare while youre at it
frail zephyr
I mean, on average its still not being faster than seadragon for me
sometimes it bursts down faster, sometimes it takes ages
potent veldt
Again
On average, there's nothing wrong with it
The entire problem is everything else but the average.
frail zephyr
yes, but to copy your phrase, again, even the bursts aren't phase-skipping broken
potent veldt
I didn't say they were?
lost agate
Its only 2 phases, phase skipping would be disastrous
frail zephyr
I mean, if you count the cosmics and the servants...
potent veldt
If anything skipped an entire DoG phase, the whole server would know
And I don't count them.
They purposefully stop existing after you beat DoG once, even the game knows they aren't super important in that fight.
lost agate
Halley sucks absolute balls vs CV
potent veldt
CV is the only reason why I still keep Seadragon during that DoG fight
frail zephyr
yeah, but planetary annihilation destroys CV, same as it destroys everything else between moon lord and dog
lost agate
H
potent veldt
Except underworld-Prov, usually
frail zephyr
pft, dig moar.
frail zephyr
they're not the tankiest of things
tired haven
It's not entirely 2 phases btw
Laser walls are 60-20%, no?
potent veldt
They are, yeah
DoG's Phase 2 is so long that it might as well be more than one phase
frail zephyr
rod of discorded the initial charge, teleported next to me and span round, dashed out the way, turned AGAIN into an S shape to consume my essence
seems tricky to dodge.
zealous ridge
Bruh does anyone even know that Galileo gladius can literally bring dog from 80% to 0 in about 4 seconds? I can safely say that just because something is crazy effective at skipping dog phases doesn’t mean it’s known by literally everyone
I don’t see much discussion about it around here
if I’m mistaken, please correct me
But it’s broken, I’d say it’s more a bug than anything but even it’s ranged attacks are remarkably consistent against this boss and it stays powerful until post darksun
frail zephyr
Looking at it on the wiki: Doesn't that mean you need to poke doggo witha shortsword?
potent veldt
???
How are you dealing that much damage?
I know the Galileo is wacky against DoG, but still
distant gyro
you can do the pokey thing and rain planet hell yes
zealous ridge
What I do is I charge into his clumped up segments when he teleports and you just go ham with lag and damage when poking
tired haven
tbf I didn't even know gallileo exists
zealous ridge
distant gyro
imagine not knowing who galileo is
zealous ridge
It’s hard to pull off in some situations
But I literally did it by accident the first time
And the second didnt instantly kill him but brought him from 70-40 iirc
In about a second
zealous ridge
yeah that’s the funny part
The attempt I instantly killed him on , I died and he died while trying to fly away
I didn’t get his lore item
potent veldt
It does great damage, but I still can't get it to do that much damage
I only do like, 10% at most every teleport he does
zealous ridge
There may be more factors
I can post loadouts and I could even try recording
Idk how to record things though
I’d have to learn
sand umbra
I mean on one hand it's a shortsword obliterating DoG on true melee
...but on the other hand it's a shortsword obliterating DoG on true melee
zealous ridge
I mean breaking sequence in the fight in that way is kind of cring to me
radiant meadow
you can just say auric ranger helmet instead of hooded facemask
that'll probably get the point across faster
sand umbra
using true melee is pretty bringe too though so it evens out
zealous ridge
Yeah I agree it’s hard to utilize but it’s still like
Busted
potent veldt
I mean, the class doesn't really matter in that sugg
Ranger's the only one that has that ability, so
sand umbra
especially with a fucking s h o r t s w o r d
radiant meadow
people might not know it's the ranger ability though
might be confused
but yes, it doesn't really matter
sand umbra
because shortswords basically require that you be hugging the boss
potent veldt
Hug the Devourer
zealous ridge
Yeah okay
potent veldt
Pacify him
zealous ridge
But you can do that
radiant meadow
are galileo meteor's too strong?
potent veldt
I dont think so, but thats just from my own experience
radiant meadow
or does the shortsword just eat doggo
sand umbra
if Galileo Gladius is gonna die I will bring down Sub Sandwich Shocker with it
sand umbra
because we can totally talk about how S3 just makes Plantera stop existing
distant gyro
planet should have a cooldown of 15 frames
sand umbra
distant gyro
time to raise that to a full 60 frames
zealous ridge
but another thing is that it’s good for darksun events which is weird to me bc its a post polterghast weapon
It’s more consistent than cosmic shiv
sand umbra
Cosmic Shiv is wack iirc
also, fun fact
Cosmic Shiv is not a Cosmilite set wep
it's a Darksun Fragment wep
distant gyro
cosmic shiv turns out to be nadir 2
zealous ridge
What does nadir 2 mean
potent veldt
Nadir
zealous ridge
Like... does that mean it’s good?
potent veldt
Still havent tried out the Exo Shiv
zealous ridge
But I just don’t like short swords at all
exo gladius is actually good against the hearts in scal
sand umbra
just like its big bro
zealous ridge
Ex oh blage
btw it still has that freezing for several seconds at 10% chance thing in its tooltip
Which is getting fixed
gusty grail
thoughts?
sand umbra
this sorta thing's already been sugg'd a few times
sand umbra
eh, wait for someone else's verdict on that
I personally am fine with it because if nothing else it shows this is a highly desired feature
zealous ridge
eh... i wouldnt say everyone
polar dock
My sugg needs 6 more stars for 90
sand umbra
yes, everyone stole my format
and that is why there is now a pin banning my format from the universe
zealous ridge
zealous ridge
i thought he was talking about more recently
with the bolding thing and the ? emote
zealous ridge
yeah that's why i said everyone probably didnt steal it from u
gusty grail
yeah mega rip ttt format
gusty grail
i only liked it when it was only thomas
zealous ridge
and not really because it was bad, just that i felt it was a bit unnessecary
and yeah, id say it did get worse when other people adopted it
because that meant a lot more fluff
gusty grail
why have less suggestions that reach 90 stars been getting ticked like they should be?
sand umbra
see, what's funny is
it was never brought up to me as an issue
which honestly would've been great information to have before suddenly it got banned and everyone did a 180 on the subject
zealous ridge
yeah it probably feels like it came out of left field for you
and i think that boiled down to the fact that you weren't posting suggestions constantly every day
gusty grail
ive found like 10 suggests above 90 stars with no tick
zealous ridge
which meant a little extra fluff wasn't too bad, at least in the way you did it
sand umbra
it came outta nowhere and it honestly really hurt because I'd been doing it for months prior and was never informed of it being any sorta problem
but whatever, I'm pretty much over it
not gonna bother pushing for any sorta change to it. god knows people won't pull another 180 that fast 'til the next time something gets banned
zealous ridge
ye, i wouldn't try to take it personally
ashen warren
@gusty grail suggs the checked in waves. Just because it hasn’t been ticked doesn’t mean it won’t be. We call it patience.
zealous ridge
the trademark thing you did was fine but when more people started doing it the fluff really started adding up and, i felt it was clogging up the sugg chat
that's how i feel, at least
sand umbra
tired haven
(I'd even tell it was probably a good way to show your og style was way better if it went under radars like that and was only exposed after blatant copying)
heh
sand umbra
yeah it got to the point where even I got sick of it
and I'm the one who did it for that long in the first place
because it felt like everyone wanted to suddenly have that special flair to their suggs because they like thought it would get them stars or something
meanwhile I literally never even considered the concept of it helping with stars until after the ban and I really just did it because it was fun and gave people a bit of insight on what I was gonna sugg about
again, though, I've gotten over it. probably for the best given how much people were tryin' to bootleg my style
and honestly, I'd rather be unable to do it myself than to have it blandly reproduced by others with none of the effort or personality that went into mine (that's how it was a lotta the time, really)
toxic kettle
the mana hardcap of 400 is a bug
sand umbra
in any event, I've rambled long enough. this is suggestions discussion, not suggestions rules discussion. 
also, it's not a bug. it's a "feature" of vanilla
toxic kettle
it should be 550 with all three permanent power-ups
sand umbra
you're softcapped at 200 from Crystals and then hardcapped at 400 from accessories
the three mana power-ups then further increase the hardcap by 50 each
queen delta
@gusty grail hold shift+enter to skip a line so you dont have to do all those spaces
tired haven
(+star beam rye for 600 total but that's not the point of suggestion)
sand umbra
mfw there are
people who don't know about
shift-enter line breaks
gusty grail
thanks geometry dash level jk
sand umbra
this has been a haiku about line breaks by Subclass Man
ashen warren
When you hang in Sugg discussion but most of your ideas for suggs are don’ts
toxic kettle
If your loadout causes you to go above 550 however, converting the extra mana that's basically useless into mana cost reduction sounds reasonable though
ashen warren
tired haven
Me after SIS ban basically
gusty grail
yeah since technically extra mana is like reducing your mana usage already i guess
in a way it is
sand umbra
SIS ban did that for me for a while
ashen warren
(What’s SIS I’m slow sorry)
sand umbra
even now it still cucks a lot of potentially good ideas I wanna pitch
SIS = Specific Item Suggestion
ashen warren
Oh yeh
sand umbra
a common type of sugg back in the day where you'd suggest an item for a tier with functions/statistics/recipe/etc.
ashen warren
Post Cryo snowball cannon upgrade when
sand umbra
honestly it's getting harder and harder for me to just pick certain things I wanna sugg because so many of the ideas I have left tie into each other a lot
ashen warren
Most of my ideas are “X thing could be better in Y way”
gusty grail
if you want a item suggest just spend money
gray nebula
pay and just wait for the other people who already spent money for an item to get theirs 
gusty grail
which one is yours thomas
karmic stone
Spark Spreader
gusty grail
tired haven
too bad that even then it's only 1 sis dream complete
ashen warren
gusty grail
shotgun angel made post provi ranger easy
ashen warren
Facts
sand umbra
...kinda tempted to sugg one of the other ideas I'd had picked out yesterday
these were:
- giving Inferna Cutter the Axe of Purity Treatment™️ because it's currently worse from a combat perspective than the axe it is a perceived upgrade from
- buffing Gravity Globe and moving it back to Expert, and making Suspicious Looking Tentacle a rare-ish drop from ML in all modes in the vein of other boss pet drops e.g. Seedling, Eater's Bone
frail mantle
ranged made ranged at all times easy tbh
toxic kettle
like up until Plantera
ashen warren
Should I post my sugg about night time boss death summons? (Making the message only appear up to 3 minutes into the night)
sand umbra
I think part of the point of Death boss summons is that you get ambushed for no reason by QB when trying to reach the Ocean for Angler and Reaver Shark and maybe Thorium Aquatic Depths
toxic kettle
but what's the point of e.g. EoC spawning at 4 am
ashen warren
True, but it’s annoying to deal with bosses that spawn without enough time for you to actually fight them
toxic kettle
you won't be able to kill it in time and by the time you're able to you don't need its drops anymore
ashen warren
/\
gusty grail
one thing i hate about death mode is bosses spawning just one second after you died to it last
then again maso boss spawns are also pretty and i dealt with em
ashen warren
I’m guessing sure then?
sand umbra
go ahead
ashen warren
I’ll type out a draft
toxic kettle
I mean having bosses spawn randomly to give the players a challenge is fine tho it's kinda pointless if the only two scenarios it could end in are the player dying and the boss despawning
the latter is really just a waste of time in the end
I'm thinking tho maybe you could have the limitation for 3 minutes after nightfall for bosses you haven't killed yet and remove the limitation for bosses you've killed
sand umbra
removing the limitation for bosses you've killed already happens
because the bosses can't spawn once you've killed them
toxic kettle
oh well
ashen warren
Prevent “something is approaching” from spawning a night time boss (such as the Eye of Cthulhu) late into the night.
Nobody wants a boss to spawn when you have less time to kill it than you are supposed to have. It’s quite a waste of time to have a mechanical boss approach when there are only two minutes of the night left and you can’t beat it in time. Hopefully w change like this would cause these bosses to spawn at a time similar to that of vanilla boss approaching messages, guaranteeing that should a nighttime boss approach, the player has enough time to have a genuine fight with the boss.
How does that sound?
prime elbow
good
sand umbra
seems good
ashen warren
in a similar vein Provi daytime only is redundant in the underworld
tired haven
Maybe sliiightly less emotional and probably a simple example of (not spawning past midnight so you always have 3.5 minutes), then good to go
ashen warren
Fair enough. I was thinking about saying that the message could only appear in the first 3 minutes of night time.
zealous ridge
quick question. would suggesting that the adrenaline and rage boosters stop dropping after they are applied to your character be fair or would that fall under a bug/coding fix?
and is it even possible
indigo fog
Are you talking about the permanent power ups?
zealous ridge
yeah like mushroom plasma root
indigo fog
What about multiplayer
zealous ridge
they drop from treasure bags, right?
well, normal would have to be considered
hmm
indigo fog
What about when it's applied to all players then
zealous ridge
wait uh
normal mode isnt revengance LUL
it just doesnt drop?
like, i believe there's a precedent in the game already for this
vanilla too
demon heart, to be specific
ashen warren
I thought Demon Heart only dropped on first kill
sand umbra
it's absolutely possible
zealous ridge
wiki says it's after you consume it
sand umbra
context: Demon Heart already does this
if you open the bag with a character who has consumed a Demon Heart, another one is not obtained
it's extremely easy to check an item drop against a player- or world-based variable
it's already done for the Rev+ drops as a whole
zealous ridge
radiant meadow
just doing my usual thing implementing suggestions before they are suggested
ashen warren
Ben, you’re saying you’ve already made a lot of these changes, but they aren’t showing up in #changelogs . Is that just because Fab hasn’t gotten to listing it yet?
zealous ridge
ye not all changes are made public
ashen warren
or ten
sand umbra
I guess this means you also made Inferna Cutter actually good compared to Axe of Purity for next update as well, my guy
lost agate
Inferna cutter burns your wooden houses
sand umbra
holding/swinging Inferna Cutter grants cold resistance or at least does something to combat it in Death
radiant meadow
I can't post stuff in #changelogs
and I don't see it necessary to specifically ask Fab to list stuff for me
and also, I did kinda do something with inferna cutter
but not buff it
sand umbra
pensive
radiant meadow
on the bright side, wulfrum controllers will be removed from the starterbag next update
sand umbra
more new summons 
the summoner mains I know are already probably having a field day with this as is, this is gonna be epic
sand umbra
you know what I'd be a fan of
having the Starter Bag contain a unique "starter weapon" for every class
rather than having them be things you can craft incredibly easily
radiant meadow
oh
sand umbra
see also: bricks
radiant meadow
I added a recipe in case you wanted another one for whatever reason
zealous ridge
i would like that honestly
radiant meadow
but also like
zealous ridge
like the first method of obtaining would be from the bag
zealous ridge
anyone remember the necro mod's grave sword or whatever it was called
sand umbra
I'd say unbuff Wand of Sparking and move it to Starter Bag
but that requires changing surface chest worldgen
and worldgen memes are
radiant meadow
wand of sparking would be the only starter bag weapon to be a material for later then
probably why we don't want that
sand umbra
wait what
sand umbra
oh shit
radiant meadow
wand -> night's/carnage ray -> terra ray -> ele ray -> vivid
sand umbra
I forgot Sparking is used in the Rays
...on a mildly related note, would it be too much to ask for Night's Ray and Carnage Ray to maybe become at least a teensy bit different in some respects
same for Corroslime and Crimslime Staves
I appreciate the existence of both but like both items in each pair are statistically identical with nothing to separate them
radiant meadow
perhaps but super super super low priority and I'll probably forget
radiant meadow
then I won't stop you but there's a good chance it could get buried in #community_suggestions
sand umbra
m
zealous ridge
you know how the slime gods get different mobility bonuses through out the fight (ebon gets a jump height boost, crim gets a horizontal boost)? maybe slimes could have the same property
like. the summons
radiant meadow
or I'll end up doing it when I do suggestion dumpster diving