#suggestions-discussion
sand umbra
mystic cloak
and finally, we killed it.
near rover
I love the last prism to death
tired haven
It's like saying rogue doesn't need content up to plant just because there is kelvin
mystic cloak
OK YEAH I'LL JUST KILL PLANTERA WITH A FUCKING BRIMBLADE
LIKE THAT'LL WORK
I WENT THROUGH THAT PAIN, AND IT WAS NOT WORTH IT.
TRUST ME
tired haven
It did work before ngl
mystic cloak
Old rogue you were forced to
tired haven
Just that brimblade was stabbed like 3 times by now iirc
near rover
Kelvin Catalyst is the one and only reason why i got introduced to melee
mystic cloak
Rogue during plantera to celestial was just a fucking chore
near rover
I didn’t touch melee otherwise
mystic cloak
like everything in mechanical to celestial was just fucking painful
Now it doesn't feel like trying to drag your scrote through a mile of glass shards anymore
But back then holy fuck the progression was wack on rogue
using crystaline for like half the game
mystic cloak
Rogue is very nicely fleshed out now
makes me happy
Now for them to make summoner better 
near rover
I’m glad to be relatively new and not have to experience the wacky rogue progression
Summoner...
Lmao
mystic cloak
Melee also used to be in a really weird spot
It's a lot better now but I can easily tell you
sand umbra
summoner's gotten a lot of new content as of late
mystic cloak
back then, anything before ark was a fucking nightmare
near rover
Pre hardmode melee is such a pain
mystic cloak
and even still ark was barely enough
near rover
But once you get kelvin catalyst, everything was just fucked
near rover
Oh god
near rover
I can’t even imagine a world where kelvin and all kinds of other stuff didn’t exist
sand umbra
time to yeet on elsewhere probably
distant gyro
Either way, early postML mage is literally tickling enemies with anything but ray and prism, at least from my experience
Effervescence, Apoctosis Array, Asteroid Staff, Mad Alchemist Cocktail Glove, Genisis, Rouge Slash:
gusty geode
Melee was painful in pre-hardmode because it was actually melee
craggy hedge
^
mystic cloak
melee was painful in pre-hardmode because everything near oneshots you and facetanking doesn't exist in this
tired haven
Alchemist glove I forgot, everything else didn't feel right (or in case of asteroid melted mana)
gusty geode
Everyone talks about melee being the most powerful class when you're actively punished for playing it the way it was originally supposed to be played
tired haven
(rouge slash is from bumblebruh I couldn't beat in first place btw)
sand umbra
love him or hate him, Squid be spittin' straight fax here
tired haven
swing your facts instead, maybe that will proc fungal symbiote at least
sand umbra
truths
ashen warren
When the best endgame melee weapon is actually intended to be a rogue weapon
near rover
Projectile melee weapons are such a meme because they defeat the entire purpose of melee but they’re the only way to make melee viable lmao
wooden wedge
true melee exists and is viable
near rover
Nah, I’ve never seen it be remotely successful, even with stuff boosting their damage, you just never want to get in things faces
wooden wedge
gusty geode
Have an idea
As much as I don't like the summon nerf
I bet similar mechanics could be employed to make melee the close-up tank it was meant to be while preventing the cheese that the devs are worried about
tired haven
Like, nerfing projectiles from melee or what?
gusty geode
Once you go above the existing DR cap
The DR itself scales normally
But the higher above the cap you go, the less damage your ranged projectiles do
ashen warren
There already is currently a mechanic that boosts defense while holding a true melee weapon
tired haven
DR won't scale normally simply due to 100% memery
And putting a higher hardcap is arbitrary
tired haven
And yeah, it just scales differently now, with no formal cap
distant gyro
the higher you have, the less effective DR you have
I actually wish melee speed would also be like that ngl
instead of "lole here's a 100% speed hardcap"
gusty geode
Either way
Trying to tank is punished
With this system, you could be a tank, but the tankier you are the more you're effectively forced to be true melee
runic heath
Maybe it's just me because I ended up spending a decent bit of time building in the ocean but I have way too many jellyfish necklaces
granted this was with old zerg on occasionally too, but it in general isn't that bad of an item to obtain
ashen warren
And not enough see shells lmao
hexed ore
Really? I can never seem to find them
gusty geode
It's statistically proven that things appear more when you aren't looking for them
runic heath
This is true
but yeah it most definitely was partially from turning on zerg to get a quick ??? spawn when farming for siren's heart, but for the most part I don't think it takes that long to get
ashen warren
Had to kill DoG 8 times to get Obliterator
runic heath
and if you get a jellyfish statue it's pretty free isn't it? unless statues were changed to not drop anything, but I don't remember if that was one of the vanilla changes
tired haven
Vanilla is very wonky on that
gusty geode
Iirc it was to prevent getting minic drops pre-hardmode
runic heath
mimic statues never dropped anything
ashen warren
Yea that
tired haven
Some items are still here, some are "lole 1/15000 chance" and others just don't drop
tired haven
Mimics never dropped anything
runic heath
drop rates I think are just divided by 4
sand umbra
statues typically divide drop rates by a factor of 20
runic heath
or 20 in a bunch of cases
ashen warren
Slimes having a 1/x chance to drop gel is cursed
runic heath
wiki for some reason says in version change history that new statues drop chance are divided by 4
but said statues actually have a drop change divided by 20 (also from the wiki)
??????????
ashen warren
Both are likely true
hexed ore
I remember on my 3DS version I had a bunch of slime statues that would give me hearts during a boss fight
tired haven
Wiki can be fear when it comes to deep source code
runic heath
anyways jellyfish statues still drop necklace at 1% rate so yeah
tired haven
(also jokes on you, statue enemies still drop hearts)
ashen warren
Version differences are 
tired haven
(at least they did so in 1.3.0.8)
runic heath
undead viking seems to be the only one that has drop rates divided by 4
Also some enemies don't drop items when killed by traps
hearty plaza
recipes for diving helmet and jellyfish necklace would be god
distant gyro
Statues are dilemmas yes
hearty plaza
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/607919238279331882/671556706538487811/unknown.png i got all this to drop without getting a diving helmet or jellyfish necklace
distant gyro
They are simulated enemies made secretly for exploitation
hearty plaza
if you ask about the jellyfish necklace, fargo banner recipe
runic heath
nice symmetry I like it
hearty plaza
™️
ashen warren
Diving helmet drops from the sulphur sea croc critters whatever they’re called
sand umbra
I still cannot wrap my head around the concept of getting 6 Sea Shells before a Jellyfish Necklace
considering Sea Shells are just generally agreed to not fucking exist
ashen warren
^^^
It and if you don’t have a giant shell or fungal carapace yet those enemies stop existing
near rover
Ugh, i STILL cant star suggestions
I never learnt why
Is this like, smth i bring up to a moderator?
safe sail
maybe like literally everyone has blocked you idk
thats like the only way reacts wont go thru
near rover
I highly doubt it since i joined Saturday
And last time i checked i didn’t curse everyone out on a drunk rampage since
void kelp
that’s actually really weird
wooden wedge
if you can't react to anyones suggestion at all then maybe it's discord shitting its pants again
distant gyro
looks like a discord issue
wooden wedge
because embeds take forever to go through now
void kelp
bc the only way for you to be unable to react is if someone’s blocked you but if it’s everyone overall it’s definitely a discord issue
near rover
Where do i even go for that?
wooden wedge
you go to the time lord and wait for discord to fix its shit
near rover
Conclusion: discord is being a brat
gray nebula
I don't think suggestions about future content are allowed
valid dirge
I don't think Noxus is getting their fight until after Yharim gets his, anyway.
indigo fog
yeah this is planning really far ahead
hollow idol
I do think doing another boss poll could be a good idea though
indigo fog
of course, but i don't think that needs to be a suggestion
ashen warren
i don think that Betsy will be added on Boss Rush
indigo fog
it's an event boss so probably not
ashen warren
cuz She's a boss from the Old One Army
and event bosses can't be added to the Boss Rush
I dont consider Betsy an Event Boss
hollow idol
AS became more bullet helly since the vote yet its below its prehm counterpart. Astragel got replaced by Aureus which is why its so low and death mode reworks happened
ashen warren
Oh yeah, I forgot to bring up Areus
i like the new Giant Squid Sprite
it looks more dark and gives more fear
gray nebula
also yea you can't just add 2 suggestions in the same message
that's also pinned somewhere
indigo fog
why can't people just check the pins before suggesting things
It's literally the description of the channel
safe sail
what
ashen warren
safe sail
its do'nts stupif
ashen warren
the post by pinkie that's pinned is the doc
indigo fog
^
versed mica
Inb4 post and log off
ashen warren
if u think that cuz she's on the Boss Checklist(White name)
then that's stupid
i literally gave a reason, and no not because shes on boss checklist
indigo fog
wait why doesn't betsy drop money
almost every enemy does that
wait it's because defender medals
nevermind
topaz bramble
Im gonna bonk someone if I hear people asking for sprites
versed mica
Now I’m actually wondering if it’s even possible for Betsy to be added to boss rush
indigo fog
Who was asking for sprites?
gray nebula
fun fact someone on the art server is working on it
versed mica
R8DIO said once the mod is “finished” and respires occur there’s should be a new poll
near rover
Oh
versed mica
Eventually
ashen warren
@gray nebula Really?
versed mica
Eyeball is placeholder
ashen warren
srry for the ping
topaz bramble
gray nebula
really yes
near rover
Ohh, it’s like, kinda part of her identity tho don’t you think? She’s kinda MADE to be an eye and twins clone
Her and her brothers
gray nebula
by skeletony
topaz bramble
Thank u mr skeletony
gray nebula
watch this get denied
topaz bramble
V cool
versed mica
Pikazilla Scal is humanoid, the clone however is not
near rover
Thank u mr skeletony very cool
near rover
Ah, ok
ashen warren
there is Phase 2 and Phase 3 Sprites?
gray nebula
nope
ashen warren
or in the meantime is that
gray nebula
there is no animations either
sand umbra
Betsy is a boss but also not a boss
near rover
Really shitty clone if the clone is an eyeball and scal is humanoid
gray nebula
the joke is that clones in calamity are all total failures
topaz bramble
Imagine not spriting
versed mica
I think Betsy is a cool enemy, but maybe not boss rush worthy
gusty geode
Betsy's a boss by all accounts except placement imo
Just like most other event bosses
versed mica
And also the reasoning is 
topaz bramble
The joke is bumblefuck
ashen warren
hehe
near rover
What’s that?
ashen warren
a very old old version of Signus
near rover
Christ, it’s both creepy and, kinda shitty, glad it was changed
near rover
The eyes and general shape of the face
topaz bramble
Yes
near rover
Like the bee mount
ashen warren
also previous SW sprite is not on the cut content yet
near rover
Top right sw deadass looks like a candy bar
indigo fog
that would be a real shitty candy bar
indigo fog
why are we talking about old sprites btw
small talon
Dunno, I just tabbed in
near rover
The topic came up about changing sprites i think, maybe as a sort of meme?
indigo fog
it's kinda offtopic
small talon
Ahh yes, future content suggestions
indigo fog
also i never heard of this dog AI issue
topaz bramble
Moral of the story: Dont suggest resprites
indigo fog
who was suggesting resprites
topaz bramble
go to art server and sprite if you want to help 
small talon
First of all, it's shitting on the person who made the current Sprite, second, just why?
Let them resprite as they wish and when they want
ashen warren
I think its when i said "Once all the bosses get their resprites" which was a poor choice of words on my part.
near rover
I mean I can’t say where all this came from, i just hop in and vroomy says smth about bonking people on the head if they keep suggesting resprites
topaz bramble
What
near rover
Then I basically meme respond
indigo fog
then nobody asked for a resprite
ashen warren
DoG always get that weird move
i was more refering to the upcoming ones i see in the art server, like the hive mind that was approved or leviathan one thats almost complete
golden narwhal
DoG ramming is normal AI now, methinks
void kelp
it’s a “hey please don’t suggest this” to suggest future changes like that
gray nebula
stalk the art server for the finest draedon leaks
ashen warren
Also Noxus and Xeroc
gray nebula
(but they all just seem to look exactly like levi???)
hollow idol
Damn forgot about putting on the SW sprites
topaz bramble
Just learn sprite smh
ashen warren
also where is the server link?
hollow shell
@ashen warren Fits more in #bugs-read-pins
also the second thing you mentioned is a normal feature of DoG Phase 2
hollow shell
Weird then.
Post in bugs channel.
quick ice
@ashen warren I could support the Betsy being in boss rush, but your first suggestion is about future content and therefore not allowed
loud steeple
Wait wouldn't a miniboss rush be semi interesting?
hollow shell
Well
hollow shell
I'm personally conflicted on the future content thing
cuz yeah it is a suggestion to be implemented later, but it doesn't directly pertain to the content?
It's
something to do once that time arrives
iunno, I guess it is so god damn far off in the future that it's not even worth suggesting right now
Like we're talking 2022
potent veldt
Im honestly super fine with Silva armor dropping Cosmolite
hollow shell
*requiring
potent veldt
No
I'm fine with it dropping it
From it's recipe
Because DoG is already meant to be skippable anyway, but by doing so it randomly handicaps you from an armor set that has basically nothing to do him
You need God Slayer armor already for the Auric Tesla set, so why does he gate off God Slayer, Auric Tesla, and Silva
indigo fog
I'm guessing cosmilite would have to be removed from silva crystal blocks too if we're removing it from armor
hollow shell
oh
"dropping" is a slightly confusing term to use, lol
potent veldt
I don't think so
hollow shell
¯_(ツ)_/¯
I do think that Silva shouldn't have Cosmilite in it, for thematic reasons (and because it means DoG needs to be farmed more)
although the DoG gate argument doesn't apply unless you want NF and EE to also be removed from the recipe
It's mostly a farming argument
indigo fog
But it's not really being farmed that much more
small talon
Suggested many times before
potent veldt
Figured
indigo fog
you can kill it once and get enough for the set
small talon
But might as well try again
potent veldt
Haven't seen it recently though
hollow shell
Yeah it's before the bluecheck cut-off as far as I can tell
small talon
Yeah you can suggest it, nothing keeping you fron doing so just saying yeah, been done before
frail mantle
aren't furniture sets kinda considered shouldn'ts because of how much effort they require
indigo fog
yeah they need a lot of sprites to do that
potent veldt
Idk then
hollow shell
They're not in the Don'ts
indigo fog
auric furniture is probably gonna happen at some point
hollow shell
Usually if furniture is ever requested we have AlterraKira do it
or she just does it on her own
Dev of specialty in that department, so it doesn't really pile onto total dev workload
sand umbra
mfw DoG is required in some facet for the wide majority of useful things after him including things that are completely unrelated to him
indigo fog
Like cosmilite chunks are in dragonfruit and you eat that
sand umbra
...mfw exactly 4 Darksun items can be crafted without ever fighting DoG
dear merciful Chrysler
(these 4 items, btw, are Dark Sun Ring, Alpha Ray, Eclipse's Fall, and Event Horizon)
in other words you're mostly using Yharon's drops against him for phase 2
glhf
then again Summoner does that anyway
indigo fog
but don't you need to kill providence and DoG first before you can get darksun fragments
indigo fog
didn't know that
versed tundra
how you you skip DoG?
sand umbra
...and then you end up having to fight DoG anyway
after the fact
because guess what needs Cosmilite
hollow shell
Eye of Extinction does require DoG to be dead tho
versed tundra
I thought you had to get the seasonal energies to make the egg, for some reason
sand umbra
nah, just Bars of Life and Effulgent Feathers
hollow shell
Maybe in the past but not anymore
sand umbra
I...believe the egg required Draedon's Forge in the past? I might be wrong
but I think that's how it was locked
sand umbra
this was also the time where Birb was post-DoG, which was the highest quality meme
versed tundra
I used to think poltergeist was easier than Dog's guardians because it had a bug and it didn't use projectiles in the second phase, the first time I fought it.
hollow shell
Sounds painful
sand umbra
Buff the Regulus Riot in some fashion.
❔
This thing takes 5 minutes and 15 seconds to kill ML without rippers on Rev. Not only is the intended kill time for this boss 4 minutes, there are a wide assortment of weapons for the same class (rogue) that can dispatch the Moon Lord much faster and are obtained earlier.
it's also horrible for like anything else I can figure out at its tier and I can't imagine this being intended for post-LC
average DPS in the test I did to determine if I was just jumping the gun or not (which I just performed) was somewhere between 1.2k and 1.5k
thoughts...? namely, am I jumping to the wrong conclusion here (this is a drop from Astrum Deus, by the by), or is it actually bad for what it's supposed to do
(gear setup was full rogue Ataxia, Dark God's Sheath, Raider's Talisman on full boost, Asgard's Valor, Grand Gelatin, Xeroc Wings, Angel Treads (accs were reforged to half Warding half Menacing))
gusty geode
That one in #suggestions-voting
Really good idea, I strongly support it
But it's invalidated by the fact that it's breaking a rule
Possibly even 2
indigo fog
I felt like regulus riot was pretty underwhelming compared to other options you have but that's just me
it could use a buff
sand umbra
it's incredibly underwhleming for an item dropped from Astrum Deus
and with Star of Destruction not really even being designed for ML, there's not much else I can even compare it against aside from Pitchforks which I already know to do well from how much people praise them
indigo fog
I was comparing it to Radiant Star and that just seemed like a much better option
i just stuck with it and didnt use the regulus riot
teal ibex
alright so this is a little weird and i really have no idea how the jurisdictions work, but would it be valid to suggest something along the lines of Ban sprite and art oriented suggestions, and create a sprite suggestion related channel in Calamity Art Server?
because unless i'm mistaken, they rarely come to fruition and are mostly neglected by devs since there's already a lot of sprite/community related activity on the art server. it also would just make a lot more sense to be there in my eyes, but maybe i'm just over-interpreting the situation
frail mantle
i mean it kinda depends
teal ibex
i just don't see the point of stuff like furniture sets going into #suggestions-voting personally. nobody is going to say "oh, extra furniture would be a bad addition to the mod" so they're pretty much guaranteed stars and just sit in dev server limbo until an artist decides it's worth doing
opal silo
no Sprite sugg = no one knows that sprites are being accepted =no one makes sprites since they might not be accepted
teal ibex
this is an incredible leap of logic
ashen warren
Well there is an entire art server for that
opal silo
It is
teal ibex
there's already a sprite submissions channel on art
frail mantle
if it's something like "resprite this thing to be more in line with xyz" then it should be okay iirc, but if it's something like "resprite xyz because it looks bad" then it's
teal ibex
resprites are also just icky to suggest in the first place, because it's low priority and replaces existing work under often times subjective pretenses
cobalt rose
of course, you just have a conversation in the #pixel_art channel on the art server to get your ideas out there
quick ice
Yeah, I’d support the art-related suggestions being in the art server considering how large it is
ashen warren
Suppose it could mentioned in the pins that suggestions about sprites should go to the art server
sand umbra
~~this reminds me, although it's probably a bit ironic to bring up given the conversation
I wonder if there's a resprite of AS' drops somewhere in the pipeline
might go look for that~~
cobalt rose
no
sand umbra
teal ibex
i'll wait on rover's take before posting since it'd require a lot of effort on his part presumably for such a change to exist
quick ice
Why would rover specifically be involved in this kind of suggestion?
ashen warren
Rover is the person who manages suggestions and pins info about suggestions
sand umbra
mhm
teal ibex
yeah, if art was to inherit a similar channel rover would be the best guy to give guidance on such a change
sand umbra
as such, changes directly correlating to suggestions and how they are handled is primarily his territory
quick ice
Oh he is? I thought he was just one of the main wiki guys, my bad
teal ibex
also i believe rover did some minor spritework recently so he's powerful 
ashen warren
Rover’s name does say “Suggestion Librarian”
quick ice
Forgive my clowny-ness
ashen warren
It happens
gray nebula
I don't think a sprite suggestion channel is really necessary at all
gray nebula
if people really dislike a sprite they'll either try to redo it themselves (and fail but then better spriters will probably get inspired) or ask it in the pixelart channel
void kelp
isn’t there a sprite submission channel?
gray nebula
hollow shell
Resprite suggestions are pretty few and far between and very rarely fulfilled
cuz not many spriters really look in the suggestion channels, s'mostly programmers and testers
hollow shell
I'm talkin bout the dev server, mostly
gray nebula
ye
ashen warren
why Wulfrum slime it still not has the Metallic sound?
hollow shell
It's a slime
ashen warren
I had heard that they were going to put a metal sound to the slime
or it was rumors?
hollow shell
We put a metal sound on Wulfrum Drone
because that also had the squish sound for a long time
sand umbra
yes
sand umbra
I mean, the reason is incredibly easy to infer given the nature of the boss
(there's also the fact that the Twins in vanilla share the same mask despite being two separate entities)
gusty geode
Another one that's against the rules but still gets my ⭐
indigo fog
It'd be kinda weird to see SG get 3 masks while every other boss gets 1. This is what SG's mask should've been
valid dirge
I think Supreme Calamitas and the Profaned Guardians don't have masks at all.
indigo fog
guardians do, and Scal is a superboss so I think it doesn't get a mask or a trophy yet
also siren has one but that's being implemented with her resprite
gusty geode
How
near rover
Holy shit it looks much edgier and I honestly like it a lot
sand umbra
it's coming out once her much larger friend's resprite is done, I believe
indigo fog
^ yes
zealous ridge
yeah, animating is in the works
sand umbra
and from what I've seen of it, Leviathan's resprite is. a daunting task, to say the least
near rover
Not quite sure why she’s getting a resprite tho, her normal sprite has always looked good imo
zealous ridge
reminds me of providence's resprite and the hype around it
gusty geode
Probably the result of the problems with her lore
indigo fog
but this is offtopic, the point is that SG should've had one mask like the rest of the bosses
hollow shell
@mystic siren Add a reason
sand umbra
byeah
hollow shell
Edit it into your suggestion
mystic siren
gotcha
sand umbra
the varying reasons it could have are all fairly easy to infer, but add some anyway for completeness' sake
zealous ridge
i always thought crafting the two slime god masks together making a core mask would be fun
sand umbra
actually that's one of the big ones
the core itself lacks a mask
the two fat slimes have one when you can literally just recolor KS' mask once you have Red Husks and Purple Mucos
but the Core, which cannot be accomplished with KS mask + dye, lacks one
that's something I find strange now that I look into it; the SG mask which would by far be hardest to replicate with other masks is the mask that does not exist
radiant meadow
anahita still needs some animations
but her animating will much likely be way faster than Levi's
hollow shell
@mystic siren Don't have multiple suggestions in one message
radiant meadow
we need bigger bosses
hollow shell
You can post the summon weapon combo one separately
sand umbra
seeing Anahita and Levi in the same image really puts a lot into perspective, haha
radiant meadow
slime god has one summon item?
indigo fog
"Reason:"
sand umbra
there aren't two Slime God summon items though 
hollow shell
He means the summon weapons, I assume
zenith hazel
^
indigo fog
^
radiant meadow
corro and crimslime staffs?
indigo fog
yes
radiant meadow
okay but that requires more sproot work 
indigo fog
Thought the statigel summoner set bonus did that but it doesn't
hollow idol
what would be the point of combining them anyways
radiant meadow
making it rarer to farm thus forcing you to craft it more often
zenith hazel
are they gonna add a reason or...
mystic siren
slime god has two
indigo fog
two what?
zealous ridge
literally the slime god suggestor supreme
hollow idol
are both slime staffs the same
indigo fog
They're literally the same minion with no difference other than world evil
void kelp
isnt that a specific item suggestion to make an item thats crafted w the two of them,
indigo fog
yea it should drop based on evil
dusty stirrup
Actually he's asking for the summon staff he suggested to replace the current two staves but he worded it badly
mystic siren
hek
radiant meadow
but the gods represent both evils
void kelp
ah
radiant meadow
so I don't see a reason to lock them to world evils
mystic siren
^
hollow idol
now its becoming more specific
hollow idol
@supple lodge one is sprited and will likely drop once siren is resprited
radiant meadow
separate trophies could become a thing when the resprites are finished, ye
the current trophy is already fucking ages old
based on a super super old sprite
hollow idol
one thing id like for new levi and siren is giving levi a roar that isnt ML's roar
sand umbra
wait that's ML's roar?
indigo fog
I think ML roar is spawn noise
sand umbra
the bruh
hollow idol
Levi makes the noise when charging
and I think makes the noise throughout the fight but hazy memory strikes
lost agate
Can someone confirm me if special boss drops are direct now
hollow shell
Could you reword your main line, Shucks? It'd kinda hard to understand
lost agate
The title?
hollow shell
Yeah
You could phrase it like a suggestion or an order instead of a fact
indigo fog
wdym by special boss drops
brittle nexus
I think they might mean legendaries
indigo fog
bag only
lost agate
H
dusty stirrup
Legendaries should definitely be affected if they don't drop from the bags anymore
hollow shell
20 Yharon wingless fights.
lost agate
(ah yeah, phup gave me the idea)
sand umbra
pretty sure leggies still drop from bags
indigo fog
they do
lost agate
Well then my suggs still holds place
sand umbra
also pretty sure they aren't affected by Defiled anymore but that may be wrong
dusty stirrup
RIVs.... Stuff like RoD and all the rare pirate drops are still affected, so why not the rare item variants
They aren't yeah
indigo fog
they aren't anymore
sand umbra
gamer
hollow shell
Give me an explanation for why that reason is invalid 
lost agate
My point is making it more versatile and not "assume it affects all vanilla things but check wiki for calam stuff cuz h"
radiant meadow
I'm not giving an explanation because I'm busy having an aneurysm over grounded summons
hollow shell
okay cool
hollow idol
lost agate
Youre making it hard on the player and wiki people
sand umbra
grounded summons seem fairly easy though 
hollow idol
youre welcome Ben
radiant meadow
I never said thank you
sand umbra
or at least they seemed easy when I made Staff of Earth one a couple weeks ago
radiant meadow
and I never will 
sand umbra
in any event
this sugg is neat o3o
radiant meadow
it's a valid suggestion
dusty stirrup
haha ben is doing the funny grounded summons, make another hermit crab
radiant meadow
exo hermit crab
I just don't personally think leggies and rivs and crystal should be affected.
sand umbra
okay
hollow shell
I would love to hear why
lost agate
Okay whats the drop rate of crystal
hollow shell
like I would really appreciate that
dusty stirrup
Atleast mention it in the defiled rune tooltip if you really don't want it to be affected
sand umbra
I'm gonna ask this once and only once
what is the big deal with Crystal needing to be a 1% drop directly from Yharon
radiant meadow
I will then
hollow shell
1/100 for Yharim's Crystal
radiant meadow
Does not affect certain items
sand umbra
because at this point Crystal is generally assumed to not exist because of how aggravating it is to obtain
lost agate
And exactly how does another 1% hurt the weapon
dusty stirrup
Gotta be more precise than "certain items"
radiant meadow
okay
hollow shell
"Only affects items with a greater drop rate than 1% but less than 5%"?
lost agate
RIVs
hollow shell
Ah yeah
dusty stirrup
That wouldn't be right because RoD, Discount card, slime staff and RiVs exist
hollow shell
indeed
sand umbra
coin gun
dusty stirrup
There's not really any pattern except for calamity item bias
sand umbra
Bouncing Eyeball but you get it within 20 seconds
hollow shell
it's almost like the Leggie and Yharim's Crystal exclusions are completely arbitrary
sand umbra
Legendaries were culled from the Defiled list to prevent bag cheese meme I think
hollow shell
With RIVs there is at least the excuse that it'd be annoying to program
considering they have the normal item replacement thing
sand umbra
Crystal on the other hand has no excuse because Crystal doesn't exist in the first place 99.9% of the time 
hollow shell
Yeah but just make them drop directly
dusty stirrup
I thought RIVs were their own items now
gusty geode
RIVs also make the most sense to be excluded imo
Also obligatory "more RIVs when"
hollow shell
like
1/3 chance to get Valediction or The Reaper
and then there's a second roll for which of the two you get
dusty stirrup
Oh
radiant meadow
Does not affect Legendaries, Yharim's Crystal, Rare Item Variants, Umbrella armor, Ancient Shadow armor, Ancient Necro Helmet, Unicorn on a Stick, Ancient Cobalt armor, Ancient Gold Helmet, Ancient Iron Helmet, Eskimo armor, Viking Helmet, Bladed Glove, Bloody Machete, KO Cannon, Zombie Arm, Halibut Cannon, Shackle, Bone Wand, Bunny Hood, Elf clothing, Eye Patch, Golden Furniture, Lamia clothing, Living Fire Blocks, Meat Grinder, Moon Mask, Mummy clothing, Pedguin's clothing, Robot Hat, Sun Mask, Umbrella Hat, Whoopie Cushion, or Blessed Apple
dusty stirrup
That's a bit quirky
radiant meadow
I can add that to the tooltip
dusty stirrup
So many exceptions
radiant meadow
yes, I had a list
dusty stirrup
radiant meadow
most of it is clothing or ancient armor pieces though
hollow shell
Seems like some of these don't have much reason to be excluded apart from being forgotten about
like Bunny Hood
or Moon/Sun Masks
dusty stirrup
Wait so rover, let's take valediction for example, which has around a 33% drop rate
sand umbra
most of the exclusions are Ancient armors and vanity
why
radiant meadow
which are vanity and I don't see a reason vanity should clutter you while you farm
dusty stirrup
Would that mean reaper has a 11% chance
radiant meadow
reaper has a 1% chance
dusty stirrup
Wait no I understand now
radiant meadow
valediction has a 32.33% chance
sand umbra
you don't see a reason vanity should clutter me while I farm, yes
while you are happy to make me get EVEN MORE FUCKING YELETS FROM TURTLES
dusty stirrup
This is kinda fucky
sand umbra
lost agate
I have you a better one
dusty stirrup
is it 1% of 1/3
radiant meadow
well, yelets is somewhat useful than no value moon masks
dusty stirrup
or flat 1%
radiant meadow
flat 1%
sand umbra
Yelets also drops from literally everything in the Jungle after a mech
dusty stirrup
Aight I think I get it now
lost agate
If my sugg gets in the tooltips gets reduced to "Every item with a drop rate lower than 5% gets their drop rate doubled"
sand umbra
it already easily clutters up the inventory and is extremely easy to farm out 
lost agate
So uh
gusty geode
"Anything that is either supposed to be stupid-rare or something a meta slave wouldn't want is excluded"
lost agate
If you wanna keep the random exclusions then h
hollow shell
In the code, it's a 1/3 roll for Valediction/TheReaper and then a 1/33 roll for the Reaper (32/33 for Valection cuz of else)
sand umbra
...why 1/33
hollow shell
math
radiant meadow
to get it to 1%
math might not be exactly 1% actually
drophelper code hasn't been applied to reaper shark yet
radiant meadow
which gets it more exact
sand umbra
1/99, technically
a.k.a. close enough to 1% that nobody really cares and it's just considered 1% anyway
lost agate
So if i get this right
You would need to make the base item more rare to have the riv be a bit more common
Or is there more to it
radiant meadow
not all rivs replace an item though
dusty stirrup
tbf it wouldn't be too much of a difference for those affected anyway
radiant meadow
like the bee or void vortex
lost agate
Well that makes it easy then
radiant meadow
but several of them do like spear of destiny and the transformer
dusty stirrup
You'll definitely get the normal item before the riv unless you're a rngod
radiant meadow
also
doubling the drop rate would have a different effect on calamity items vs vanilla items still
just gonna point that out
unless you wanna do like serious math for vanilla items
lost agate
If its just doubling it should be a simple formula
dusty stirrup
The fact defiled just ups the drop rate to atleast 5% no matter the actual drop rate, unless you're on the exclusion list, is kinda crunky in the first place
gusty geode
On the topic
Are there so few RIVs because sprite problems or what
radiant meadow
is it a simple formula?
gusty geode
Out of what
1000+ total items now
hollow shell
We have 31
dusty stirrup
Do we really need so many RIVs
hollow shell
That's a good chunk of items
radiant meadow
because rolling for 1% twice is rarer than just rolling for 2% once iirc
hollow shell
I don't think we need that many more
gusty geode
Idk
I feel like it'd be a cool mechanic to expand on more
dusty stirrup
Mechanic?
gusty geode
What am I supposed to call it
hollow shell
wire?
dusty stirrup
I wouldn't know honestly
radiant meadow
keep in mind that guidelight of oblivion was partially spawned out of my own boredom
dusty stirrup
But i wouldn't call it a mechanic
radiant meadow
and a way to get people to shut up about summoner RIVs
sand umbra
it's...sort of a mechanic but also not?
sand umbra
big brain momentum: RIVs are a collective subclass of all classes
dusty stirrup
Item subclass
hollow shell
add item which increases damage of all RIVs 
sand umbra
yeeeees
dusty stirrup
Now things are getting interesting rover
I would warm up to them more if they more things specific to them
ashen warren
What is RIV?
hollow shell
bronze abyss
rare item variant
ashen warren
ok
gusty geode
Anyway
I still think more would be great
Particularly ones of vanilla items
Checked the wiki now and spotted one weapon and one acc I immediately recognized as vanilla
hollow shell
I think it is just the two
gusty geode
Is it worth suggesting, do you think
radiant meadow
what if I just completely removed defiled
lost agate
queen delta
then defiled soul becomes an ancient relic
gusty geode
Did have an idea regarding RIVs that I also wanted to bring up
radiant meadow
the bee is one
indigo fog
and clothier's wrath and thats it
radiant meadow
the bee also got reworked to not fucking shit all over boss rush 
sand umbra
how good is Clothier's Wrath
radiant meadow
pretty good for slime god and wof iirc
sand umbra
also I recently discovered that Book of Skulls' projectile speed is actually a meme
gusty geode
RIVs of materials
That have different properties from the main one, like being useable in different recipes
Specifically as substitutes for less reliably obtained items like a more elegant way to get around the issues that spawned a lot of QoL changes
You could, say, have an RIV of Books that can be a substitute for the Water Bolt in that one recipe that needs it
hollow shell
That sounds painful
radiant meadow
rivs for materials sounds like a fucking trainwreck
dusty stirrup
That'll be a pass for me
gusty geode
Fair enough
indigo fog
More Rare Item Variants for vanilla items would be cool but they should be summoning weapons since summoner currently has only a single item
radiant meadow
how about no because nobody wants to code summons
radiant meadow
if you want summons, you have to pay
ashen warren
With blood
gusty geode
Night's Edge RIV to compliment Bloody Edge one when
ashen warren
^^^
near rover
@gusty geode what’s RIV short for?
hollow shell
near rover
Nvm
sand umbra
Cryophobia becomes a normal post-Cryo weapon when
hollow shell
it was still in my clipboard
sand umbra
it has nothing to do with the Magna Cannon at all h
ashen warren
Yo how many more times Rover finna post that link in the chat
gusty geode
Btw
Of all things why the Book of Skulls and Bee Cloak
dusty stirrup
The amount of times people will ask what a RIV is
valid dirge
There also are literally zero summoner legendaries 
indigo fog
there's one
gusty geode
Who tf uses the Book of Skulls
indigo fog
[[Guidelight Of Oblivion]]
red storm
dusty stirrup
Not a legendary
ashen warren
Prolly cuz no one likes the existence of summons
near rover
The book of skulls is the sort of stuff that makes vanilla mages a meme for most of the game lmao
sand umbra
Clothier's Wrath is the Book of Skulls' equivalent to having an immediate upgrade a.k.a. "this item is a meme so instead of making it not a meme let's make a new thing that is literally just the existing item but better instead"
The Bee...I don't know
hollow shell
[[Guidelight of Oblivion]]
valid dirge
Oh, is this new?
valid dirge
Nice
ashen warren
when I do get a RIV it’s late or for a class I’m not playing
dusty stirrup
It's something over no summon riv
sand umbra
...you know what, speaking of RIVs
ashen warren
sugg time intensifies
sand umbra
Make Cryophobia not an RIV of Magna Cannon and just have it be its own separate thing instead.
❔
Cryophobia has nothing to do with the Magna Cannon, coming from a completely different environment and having nothing close to the same theme, and is additionally pre-boss by standard progression whereas Magna Cannon is post-EoW/BoC by standard progression (due to Obsidian existing in the recipe). It just feels like an unnecessary connection for an item that could be much cooler if given a more unique identity.
radiant meadow
pun bad
sand umbra
on today's episode of-- wait a minute that's a bannable offense now 
thoughts?
radiant meadow
and perhaps
queen delta
23 suggestions in the last 24 hours wow
ashen warren
Honestly agree. Magna is granite themed and its RIV is an ice weapon.
hollow shell
I saw what I think was the start of an SIS in the suggs channel so I'm prepping my pinging fingers
ashen warren
Granite. Corrected.
radiant meadow
he just said
sand umbra
Magna Cannon leans more towards granite, ye
sand umbra
but like. point being, Magna Cannon and Cryophobia are basically nothing alike in all but function
radiant meadow
and of course obligatory bl2 reference
sand umbra
and I feel like its status as an RIV of Magna Cannon kinda limits some of the potential cool factor (probably not a pun this time) an ice weapon such as Cryophobia could have
ashen warren
Calamity’s one big Metal Gear Rising / Borderlands reference so it’s fine
hollow shell
and Turok
hallow kraken
What even is magna anyways?
sand umbra
Magna itself is in a really strange spot in terms of whether or not it's an instant upgrade but I'll work on that another time
hollow shell
"great", according to Google Translate
The root of "magnitude" and "magnificent", probably
radiant meadow
probably also related to magma since its made w/ obsidian
hollow shell
could be a pun, yeah
hollow shell
or
Grand Cannon
which sounds like it ought to be made with Forbidden Fragments if you catch my drift
ashen warren
It’s not all that grand
swift bison
Specific item sugg
hallow kraken
That’s an SIS
hollow shell
@toxic pagoda Smells like a Specific Item Suggestion
hollow idol
^ to the 3 above people
sand umbra
* (Smells like...specification. Whatever that smells like.)
hollow shell
toxic pagoda
well that's one way to remind myself of the rules
hollow shell
lol
indigo fog
rename the channel to #suggestions-voting_read_pins when
toxic pagoda
havent been on this server in awhile (sugg at least)
soooo not surprised I forgot a few of the regulations
hollow shell
gotcha
If you want, you could resuggest it in a more general manner while expanding on your reasoning
Like, it's a post-PBG item set, right? So you could suggest that there be more post-PBG content
toxic kettle
How would Aquaplague relate to the lore
sand umbra
I've tried thinking of a specific material drop for PBG before, I think
nothing ever came to mind
hallow kraken
Like the chlorophyte-titanium alloy mentioned in the lore?
sand umbra
the wuuuuuuuut
sand umbra
if you're about to tell me--
hallow hatch
K
indigo fog
I always use bombs to get obsidian
sand umbra
okay buster, you wanna get me started on Magna Cannon
hollow shell
Space Gun
sand umbra
toxic pagoda
bro im playing magic death and I just beat hive mind
hollow shell
That's the more pertinent progression-locker
toxic pagoda
havent gotten a meteorite yet
ashen warren
This just threw my entire world for a loop, my guy is tellin me you can bomb obsidian...
indigo fog
tungsten or higher
sand umbra
yeah
hollow shell
It's post-ShadowOrb/CrimsonHeart 
tepid root
tungsten works too but silver doesnt
toxic pagoda
but like ive broken orbs so long ago and I havent gotten a meteorite in my world lmao
sand umbra
hollow shell
Thanks RNGbama
sand umbra
but yeah uh
Magna Cannon itself is in a really weird spot right now
sand umbra
Amber can be obtained just from normal Extractinating with a greater chance from Desert Fossils (it really should be Desert Fossil specific given its Staff requires Sturdy Fossils but what do I care to fix that rn)
Obsidian can be blown up
Granite isn't too terribly difficult to find
Space Gun...is the base weapon
hallow kraken
Wait what am I blind
hallow kraken
I swear remembering the lore claiming to have clorophyte/titanium alloy
hollow shell
Prolly old lore
sand umbra
toxic pagoda
Adamantite cries
ashen warren
as a mage I forget Magna exists
toxic pagoda
/\
sinful violet
it's p cool though ngl
radiant meadow
amber crawler drops amber too
toxic pagoda
the new sparkling empress is literally a last prism
sand umbra
oh yeah Amber Crawlers exist
toxic pagoda
and you can get it with a reinforced fishing pole and fireflies
radiant meadow
sparkling empress was also a pain in the ass to program
toxic pagoda
oof
I loved it tho
I was so stuck in my death world until I found the sunken sea further below a tree of life and fished that thing out
killed scourge first
swift bison
isn't sparkling empress pretty similar to the examplemod laser weapon?
radiant meadow
well, I heavily referenced it, yes
but like sparkling empress fucking bugged out with HERO's mod and I had an aneurysm figuring that out
swift bison
what ended up being the cause?
swift bison
did it cause it to not use mana?
swift bison
that's just hero's mod godmode giving you infinite mana 
radiant meadow
well, if I subtracted mana manually, it "worked"
and if I swapped worlds, the behavior changed
and I think I restarted more than once
and Shucks had the issue too when testing
swift bison
godmode isn't usually something you pay attention to, but it prevents you from using mana unless it's manually subtracted iirc
radiant meadow
well, I'm 90% sure Shucks didn't use godmode
and I'm also 99% sure I checked for godmode
ashen warren
I use cheat sheet for item, enemy browser, waypoint, light, godmode, pain tool, clearing and paint tool
Hero’s mod for pause time and reforging
Hero’s mod lets you pause time?...
indigo fog
day/night cycle
yes
Hero's mod is also great for teleporting you to a different position on map btw
not just time pause and reforging
but i honestly think the 2 should be combined into a single mod
I don't see why they have to be seperate
radiant meadow
alright, time to send you flying to #other-mod-talk for off-topic at this point
near rover
I honestly didn’t know the cryophobia existed till now
Mostly because fighting angry dogs is a rarity for me, no idea why they spawn so rarely for me
Also looks busted if you luck out and get it, at least for a bit until it gets outclassed
radiant meadow
the idea is that you're supposed to luck out and get it
you're not meant to farm for RIVs
indigo fog
Doesn't Nebulous Core's revival effect work on top of God Slayer's set bonus
and you get 12% increased damage
radiant meadow
it does work on top of it
indigo fog
And I don't know if Nebulous Core's nebula stars working like EoW's lore item is gonna be too strong
radiant meadow
but a lot of people tend to use other options anyways
it already does
eow's lore item requires tiles
indigo fog
I didn't know that
radiant meadow
they both use spore sac code
hollow shell
I think it's a stretch to say Silva and Auric are immediately after
and all of their revive effects stack
you can get revived by Nebulous and still retain your GS revive
indigo fog
and I can imagine it being used during buffed seasonal moons since you don't have NF or EE yet to make a draedon's forge
I thought the suggestion was asking to add the sky island onto the abyss and i got real confused
I think the 4th layer was meant to be that empty so i don't know if that can work
If the issue is that abyss enemies spawn on the floor then i think an alternative can be for them to be able to spawn underwater in those layers
teal ibex
@hollow shell so if we don't dig the idea of a sprite suggestions channel, do we also not want to ban the suggestions
i know you say they don't happen often, but when they do it's usually followed by some carbon copy or two of somebody seeing the stars and piping up a very similar thing
hollow shell
The same reasons don't quite apply but there is some overlap
teal ibex
i know most furniture suggestions wind up duplicated at most a day after
hollow shell
One of the reasons why there shouldn't be a dedicated channel is because they're uncommon
but that's fine for a general suggestions channel
sand umbra
and all of their revive effects stack
you can get revived by Nebulous and still retain your GS revive
I want to agree with you...except the Nebulous Core revive is procced entirely by chance
furthermore, it is obtained at the same tier that a more consistent and potentially more powerful revive is obtained
hollow shell
You can't not agree with me, I just stated a fact :P
sand umbra
fuck
this is true
but still, Nebulous Core just...isn't really impressive, especially given the things you unlock right after DoG
hollow shell
It's saved me a few times during Yharon1
but yes indeed, it's up to RNGesus's blessing
indigo fog
It's best before the seasonal events but after that it's really not that useful compared to other options
sand umbra
and even then, that's not a too terribly large period of viability, especially for an Expert-exclusive item
mighty knot
Add a Pre-Boss Hardmode Rogue Armor Set, or at least a Rogue helmet made from hardmode ore
This could be a whole rant of its own, split into potentially three suggestions, but this one should do enough. Right now, pre-boss hardmode is incredibly difficult for Rogue, mainly because the only hardmode armor they can use is Mollusk.
As it stands, Mollusk armor is very difficult to get without any other armor and/or post-boss weapons, since Crabs have a lot of health and defense and Giant Crabs take ten minutes to defeat and tend to wear you down.
Daedalus armor is an easy checkpoint, since it has helmets for all classes, but getting it requires defeating Cryogen, which is difficult even on Expert with just Statigel armor. Summoner, at least, has Spider armor--and although it's bad, it's better than nothing.
I can already hear people saying that you can just use the hardmode ore armors with a non-Rogue helmet (probably melee, since it gives a lot of defense), but the damage penalty is really not acceptable.
Note: Since this has been said a lot, I know I'm posting this in #suggestions-discussion. You're supposed to. Read the pins.
sand umbra
wouldn't a better alternative be to add an actually rogue-focused armor kinda like summoner has for early Hardmode
lost agate
H
hollow shell
I wanted to say ☑️ but it's actually past the cut-off
so, you're good
You could mention summoner helmets too if you want
sand umbra
people keep yelling for HM ore armor rogue variants but the truth of it is many people are only ever going to use one of those armors in 90% of scenarios so the other five will just sit there gathering dust
mighty knot
it wouldn't make sense if only two had the helmets
sand umbra
and I honestly really don't want these to turn into more one-size-fits-all armors especially when four of them are made at least partially irrelevant by the fact that you can go fishing and doing so is incredibly easy by the time you reach Hardmode (SBTBFS unlock hours)
I'd personally rather see some more unique, class-specific armor sets, especially for rogue which currently lacks them compared to other classes
sand umbra
seems good to me
hollow shell
@ashen warren Same rarity, yes, but Megashark does require one more boss to be killed to obtain it, compared to Butcher
I do think that the maximum fire rate prolly should be better considering how long it takes to build up
but it's not wholly unreasonable for Megashark to be superior
ashen warren
"around the same progression" yes
sinful violet
Still a massive handicap to have to hold it down for so long though
Can't RoD, can't ichor without using ichor bullets alone, can't get MFD on something
ashen warren
ye
sinful violet
You get the point
ashen warren
rly not worth to hold for 30s
teal ibex
when are we gonna make it painfully slow by default
but make it uncapped windup
imagine a gun that could just do 2x meta dps if you don't get hit for a full 2 minutes
swift wadi
sand umbra
hollow shell
hyperdrat
hollow idol
Even if it wasnt the revival of an old feature, its still a big enough mechanic to where its not allowed
indigo fog
That would be a shitload of work to fully implement
hollow idol
@languid badger
hollow shell
Replacing health is a massive change
hollow shell
That'd be a positive mechanic then, a revive tied to the whole difficulty mode
Sounds hard to balance
frail mantle
Isn’t Stress one of those old Calamity mechanics that basically everyone hated
void kelp
yep
tired haven
Indeed
personally I did like the idea behind that, but in practice it just doesn't fit in terraria's flow. Stress is more suited for "screw you" kind of game like Darkest Dungeon
keen geyser
but the crystals don't spawn immediately
toxic kettle
I get that tho, if you fly upwards right as the Crystal shoots its shards, it fires them right in your face
karmic stone
@tidal bough
- Why
- The Pack is a patreon item
tidal bough
- Why not? I mean The Pack seems to be a good addition to the crafting recipe.
- The Cosmic Shiv is also a Patreon item and it is used for the Exo Gladius.
karmic stone
Why not
lol
also a Patreon item
Ye but Yat prolly agreed to add it to Gladius's recipe, iirc the donor has to agree (?)