suggestions-discussion

[indigo fog]

you can use a zen potion

[versed tundra]

But there, the problem is just spawn rate, I know

It's expensive :)

[indigo fog]

Zen potions?

[versed tundra]

Yep

[indigo fog]

It's just pink and blighted gel

with core of eleum

post-ml

[versed tundra]

Wait, I got it confused with zerg

[indigo fog]

or you can just get blood orbs

[versed tundra]

Zerg is the annoying one

Blood orbs are so slow to farm, I find.

But that's a whole other can of worms

[indigo fog]

fish for them

xerocodile

[versed tundra]

Oh right

That's new isn't it?

[indigo fog]

post-ml it's easy to fish for a ton of them

and yes it's new

[versed tundra]

I'll do that next time I go back to playing this sinkhole of a game play

[queen delta]

@pine cove can you make the reason not in bold? its excessive

[pine cove]

wdym by its excessive

[queen delta]

the entire thing is bolded

just make the title bold, and thats it

thanks

[pine cove]

yw

[radiant meadow]

dust causes a significant amount of lag

especially in such huge quantities

it would be useful, sure, but it'd kill like half the pc's

[queen delta]

it could just use a small amount of dust like masomode auras

[hearty plaza]

^

[frail mantle]

an indicator for where Prov starts to meme on you has been sugg'd before

[dull comet]

oh frick it has

[radiant meadow]

I mean, just making the microwave's dust just a little bigger lagged me

[queen delta]

i see what happened

a potato got put into the microwave and got cooked

[radiant meadow]

yep

[pine cove]

I mean not even my steak durable pc can handle that and i never seen others suggestions yet. But a indicator of dust may cause lag

[mellow bay]

just asking is it allowed to make suggestions about the sever

[radiant meadow]

yes

[hollow shell]

There's a wiki channel but you need a role to use it

You get it just by asking

but I guess that's somewhat inconvenient

[hollow idol]

reaction role bot tbh

[hollow shell]

Maybe

[radiant meadow]

#wiki-basic be like

[mellow bay]

but why need a role

[hollow shell]

Keeps it more controlled and productive

[radiant meadow]

because people kept asking help questions in there I think

[hollow shell]

We do get a lot of people in the Terraria Wiki server just asking questions...

[frail mantle]

iirc people kept using it as bootleg #wiki-lookup

[hollow shell]

like "Ah yes, this Discord server is the wiki."

"I shall receive answers from it."

[radiant meadow]

wiki_lookup came into existence after wikibasic was role locked

[hollow shell]

(long after)

[mellow bay]

i think a channel for wiki discussion would make at least the community have direct influence on the wiki stuff

[frail mantle]

that channel exists

[hollow shell]

Wikis can be edited by anonymous people

[frail mantle]

you just have to ask for the role to access it and shazam, you're in

[sand umbra]

actually yeah this makes me wonder

[mellow bay]

oh wait its an asking role

[frail mantle]

indeed

[hollow shell]

yes

[sand umbra]

why is SHPC a stronke left click and normal right click

[ashen warren]

yes

[mellow bay]

i thought you would need to have greater wiki contributions

[sand umbra]

wiki contrib is just a role you can ask for

[hollow shell]

There's a second wiki channel for Wiki Editors, which is an earned role

[sand umbra]

ye, Editor is the earned one

[hollow shell]

for more big change discussion and source code discussion

[quick ice]

isn't there a set number of Wiki Editors though?

[hollow shell]

There's a select few

It's not an easy role

[mellow bay]

well sometimes i just do some smaller wiki contributions as im not very good on source code

[hollow shell]

If you want the wiki role just to have access to the channel, you can ask

[frail mantle]

there's no limit on how many people can be Editors, it's just that very few people have it

[quick ice]

well yeah, it's a set number cause only need so many to prepare for each update

at least that's what I remember being told

[hollow shell]

I guess.

[radiant meadow]

do you want the role?

[sand umbra]

Make Draedon's Forge, the post-DoG mega-accessories, the Elemental Excalibur, Yharon Soul Fragments, and Auric Tesla armor use the standard rarities for their tier rather than using Rainbow.

❔
Rainbow rarity in vanilla and mostly in Calamity is typically reserved for items exclusive to Expert Mode and up...these items aren't exclusive to Expert. Consistency reasons, above all else.

[hollow shell]

You could also add that they aren't really significantly special items

[radiant meadow]

rainbow rarity is intentional

[hollow shell]

for instance, Elemental Excalibur is Rainbow
Auric Tesla Armor is Rainbow

ok

[radiant meadow]

it's a custom modded rainbow so they don't have the Expert tag

[hollow shell]

you added that too

nvm then

[sand umbra]

yeah, realized a couple more things have the rarity despite not being Expert+ exclusives

although I suppose I should ask: why do these items have the Rainbow rarity if they are not exclusive to Expert+?
that's the whole point of the Rainbow rarity in the first place; to help signify Expert+ items are important and cool

[radiant meadow]

idk but I also remember Fab saying don't remove rainbow rarity from stuff at some point

[lost agate]

Elemental excalibur is the rainbow in a sword iirc

But what do i know

[sand umbra]

so I'm guessing I just shouldn't post it

I was not aware cool factor overrode consistency, although I suppose by now I should know better

[zealous ridge]

isnt shadowspec expert+?

or was that changed in recent times

[sand umbra]

no???

that hasn't been a thing in ages iirc

[zealous ridge]

oh god

well its not like i play on normal anyways

probably some antequated information in my head that stuck with me as a rule

[sand umbra]

if something doesn't have Rainbow rarity, it is not Expert+ exclusive

good rule of thumb to follow

[zealous ridge]

suspicious looking tentacle

[sand umbra]

suspicious looking tentacle has the same exact issue

[zealous ridge]

thought it had the opposite issue? this might be another brain moment

like its cyan rarity but its expert exclusive

[radiant meadow]

gravity globe is available in all modes now at least

because it socks so normal mode can have it

[sand umbra]

...what

you're joking, right

[queen sail]

I’m sure the says something

Thomas

[sand umbra]

k then, assuming it's jok

...eh fuck it
I'll see how it fares in #suggestions-voting

if it falls flat I can always just do it myself

[indigo fog]

I would like for Elemental Excalibur to stay rainbow

but that's it

[sand umbra]

why

[indigo fog]

because rainbow sword

not really a strong reason

[radiant meadow]

I actually made gravity globe available in all modes

[indigo fog]

good

it was bad and pointless anyway

it can go in normal why not

[sand umbra]

well

I guess I have to override ML's loot code now

time to die

[indigo fog]

ML doesn't get a treasure bag exclusive accessory though

[radiant meadow]

does it need one?

[indigo fog]

every other one does

but not really

[radiant meadow]

shrimpy truffle?

[sand umbra]

alternatively I can just undo the series of buffs I made to EE Gravity Globe now that it's in all modes

can't have normal mode players having fun now can we

[radiant meadow]

it probably needs the buff regardless

like would you even use it in normal mode?

[fervent zealot]

would you even use the gravity globe in general

[indigo fog]

gravity potions are easy to get post-ml

[fervent zealot]

it's basically just worse flight

[indigo fog]

fish for blood orbs

[radiant meadow]

also, xerocodile may have been a mistake

[indigo fog]

it's a waste of an accessory slot

Because it makes farming blood orbs too easy?

[sand umbra]

...it's actually a normal mode acc now

why have you put me on this path

[radiant meadow]

should've kept this as the function
https://gyazo.com/5258bf256f424d5b610916ffd27f82fb

it was because moon lord lore was useless in normal mode

and because globe socks

[sand umbra]

~~so now I have to either nerf Grav Globe to fuck all or override ML's loot table to make it Expert+ again

I want to die~~

[radiant meadow]

just do nothing

[hollow idol]

yo what does the do

[wooden wedge]

summons phase 2 of ragnarok

[indigo fog]

It's clearly an accessory, looking at the modifiers to the right

[vocal grotto]

Old, temporary sprite for The Camper in testing iirc

[indigo fog]

That explains the rarity

[queen delta]

ah so is the placeholder sprite for calamity?

[queen sail]

Can I suggest that Camper be rainbow rarity

Considering shiny stone

[sand umbra]

ehh, not really feelin' it on that one

considering donor item

(consider that Kelvin Catalyst, Corpus Avertor, and Karasawa have all been in the game for longer but aren't Rainbow rarity despite being Expert+, as they are all dedicated items)

[radiant meadow]

it's not a donor item

but it is a dedicated item

[sand umbra]

oh yeah

Camper specifically is for an event winner

[radiant meadow]

I don't even know if it was an event

[sand umbra]

it's what the wiki page says and I have no other context to go off of, so as far as I'm concerned that is why it exists

[hollow shell]

(It was something super long overdue from the past
The guy never got his item and we all forgot about it until he reminded us)

[ashen warren]

Didn’t know this existed till it was mentioned
Don’t know why this exists other than because the donator felt like memes
Edit: this being the Camper

[sinful violet]

It was just this update so I don't blame you

By the way, I'd personally include overuse of spacing with emotes in suggestions to be "unnecessary formatting" so while I won't enforce it since it's better than before, it would be nice to cut down on that as well.

[ashen warren]

You s u g g e s t we cut down on it.
I’m truly sorry.

[radiant meadow]

The Camper isn't a donor item so there's no donator

[ashen warren]

Wait... oh.

Y’all were talking about donator items and then mentioned it, so I guess I got bamboozled

8 7 s t a r s

Almost there .w.

[opal silo]

Tonesthepickle

[sand umbra]

swinging over...in the beginning?

[queen delta]

He has a new attack that basically flies over you dropping ice shards on you

[sand umbra]

I know that

[queen delta]

At the beginning

[sand umbra]

I wasn't aware it was in the beginning

[queen delta]

Oh, probably deathmode

[sand umbra]

I find it more meme-tier at the end of the fight in combination with everything else

Rev+ Cryo's last phase baffles me; I cannot comprehend, to save my life, how one is meant to dodge it

[ashen warren]

yk you coulda just dropped this in test hq as feedback, right yat?

[sand umbra]

but like, the bits in the beginning seem straightforward enough

...until he starts moving to whichever direction you'd like to move in so suddenly you have to sit still which in and of itself is a terrible idea

[devout seal]

wth is xerocidite or w/e

[queen delta]

Well, the whole reason for suggesting is to see what others think

Maybe everyone else thinks it's fine

[devout seal]

oh

[sand umbra]

I mean, I personally feel like Cryo was overtuned even for being buffed into actual boss status

it feels almost like I'm fighting Prime: I have no idea what to do and lots of things are happening at once, although here it starts out workable and then gets worse as the fight goes on rather than starting out bullshit and getting better

[near rover]

I’ve heard that anyone can star a suggestion but I can’t seem to do that and have tried multiple times, even googling how but can’t

[radiant meadow]

?

you just click the star reaction on the messages in #suggestions-voting

[near rover]

I tried but the number doesn’t go up and my name doesn’t appear

In fact just tried that with the latest suggestion, nothing happened, still 42 stars

Is it a time thing? I did join yesterday

[hollow shell]

Someone the other day was having trouble cuz the suggestion-poster had blocked them

but I don't think that's likely

[near rover]

I haven’t even posted there for it to block me lol

[hollow shell]

No I mean the writer of the suggestion, not the bot

[near rover]

I’ve tried that with multiple suggestions, so either everyone hates me right off the bat and blocked me yesterday when i joined or smth else is going on here

[hollow shell]

lol

Prolly just a bug, then

dunno.

[near rover]

I can’t even say it’s a mobile thing because I’ve used reactions on different servers on mobile

It’s really annoying because i want to help out suggestions i like

[tepid root]

7 stars left

also jeez there has been a lot of suggestions recently

[hearty yew]

@sand umbra all of those but elemental excalibur are acceptable. Elex should stay rainbow because it's rainbow, and it's dev weapon tier so it gets to be fancy like fabstaff for example

[sand umbra]

I can agree with Elex staying rainbow ye

[radiant meadow]

this is basically Fab saying rainbow rarity is intentional btw https://gyazo.com/31c65af186dcd0acc40f96aae10074a0

[sand umbra]

it just feels really strange, at least in my opinion, to have rainbow rarity on things that are not Expert-exclusive
Elemental Excalibur doesn't really bother me as much since it's dev tier anyway and it has like 50 billion different functions based on the colors of the visible spectrum
but the rest...don't really have a reason, it's just kinda "here, have a rainbow item that isn't actually supposed to be rainbow considering normal rarity color rules but is anyway"

[hearty yew]

i am looking at the code right now

[sand umbra]

(which in turn ends up undermining the special-ness of Ele Excalibur having it, I suppose)

[hearty yew]

there is a force-rainbow rarity yeah

[sand umbra]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[hearty yew]

i'm changing how this works internally but not making any actual changes to item colors yet

[distant gyro]

Recently Delivered Suggestions
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/675426268933652480 @zealous ridge 🏁
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/675074461711728670 @hollow saffron 🏁
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/674995776224493589 👍
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/674984067950837761 @jovial spire 👍
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/674953422222393364 👍
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/674818017301102602 @sand umbra 👍
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/674777129564504072 @quick ice 🏁
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/674727729408507980 @cobalt pilot 👍

https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/674653927056343040 @worthy fiber 👍
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/674643145039937548 @civic gust 👍
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/674342875655438372 👍
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/674339995959427135 👍
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/674325034650828810 @keen geyser 👍
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/673660130939895831 @hallow kraken 🏁
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/673269424853352448 @ashen warren 👍
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/672670031892578304 @split narwhal 👍

[sand umbra]

woa

that's a big chungus list of suggs

[distant gyro]

I did take time to send 20 of them in a row yes

[quick ice]

awesome, one of my more relevant suggestions has been implemented

[distant gyro]

4 was N/A so it's 16 actually

[sand umbra]

the general approval of Perfs items inflicting Burning Blood makes me happy

[distant gyro]

I am pretty happy with how many ruinous souls polter drop now

although that might mean you only have to fight him once for the materials you need to craft both armor and weapons

[hearty yew]

Backend work on rarity colors complete

It's still considered really bad form to implement a suggestion before it gets delivered right?

[quick ice]

now that XultroniX suggestion for the Charred Slimes was accepted, time to repost the Cryo-Slimes biome change

also I guess it's bad form since it might discourage the idea of upvoting a suggestion, but for niche suggestions that don't take much work implementing them right away is probably fine

[hearty yew]

i just did a bunch of work to fix item rarity colors

not doing the suggestion would be kind of silly

[quick ice]

yeah, just changing a number for a bunch of items is easy so implementing it right away is great

[hearty yew]

@sand umbra the worst part is statis belt of curses is dark blue

while elemental gauntlet, ethereal talisman, and elemental quiver were all rainbow

not even the "elemental accessories" are equivalent

[sand umbra]

...what

literally what

[hallow hatch]

Nanotech

[sand umbra]

the more I look into/hear about this the more it bothers me

[hearty yew]

nanotech was rainbow too

it's all fixed now

elemental accs and nanotech are dark blue

YSFs are violet, same as auric ore

wait

actually what the fuck

auric ore is dark blue

??????

silva amor is purple

darksun weapons are not purple

eclipse mirror is purple

auric bar is purple

auric ore is not purple

darksun fragments are purple

but the weapons they make aren't

okay i'm just fixing this, this is ridiculous

[sand umbra]

late-game rarities are

an experience

[hearty yew]

everything darksun and beyond is purple now, hardline

[sand umbra]

nice

[distant gyro]

how about red-turquoise dispute

[sand umbra]

better question: what the actual fuck constitutes Purple

[hearty yew]

nothing

[sand umbra]

is it just Cyan and Red shit with good modifiers and the game mechanic items

[hearty yew]

it's a vapor rarity added atop red so you can see positive reforges

[sand umbra]

I see

[hearty yew]

that is literally what it is for

in vanilla no items should ever have rarity 11

[distant gyro]

purple is an abomination caused by reforges

[hearty yew]

^ it is a necessary abomination imo

[sand umbra]

you know what I really wish would happen

custom mod rarities above Purple actually being supported for reforge colors and the like

[distant gyro]

This tier consists of Cyan and Red items that have high-level modifiers. No items currently have this as a base rarity.

[sand umbra]

but I know it'll never happen because rarity conflicts are meme

[hearty yew]

simple IL editing, just need a way to grab the item's prefix and that prefix's intended rarity edit

then just enable overflow into calamity rarities

so a red item with a +2 becomes turquoise instead of purple

[sand umbra]

...you make a compelling case

[hearty yew]

this would also enable calamity items w/ reforges to slide between the calamity rarities

and would require us to make a couple of extra rarities in the violet/dev area

[sand umbra]

Purple could maybe potentially actually be used for something;tm:

[hearty yew]

( Donator items, rare variants, rainbow items, and uniquely colored items would be immune to this effect )

i just made like 28 more items purple

fuck off

[sand umbra]

not that purple the other purple

[hearty yew]

oh

well, if I did this, I would collapse immediate post-ML crafts to be vanilla purple

post-provi would stay turquoise

birb drops would probably demote to purple

[sand umbra]

Darksun-tier purple isn't actually Purple it's Violet

don't ask me how that works, I don't know either

[hearty yew]

...maybe

yeah it's called violet

w/e

if I can make that system work then I will fudge with the numbers then

your suggestion is complete

but let people keep voting on it

lol

[sand umbra]

[frail mantle]

unlimited confusion+less buff slots

[sinful violet]

While I agree those lore items are entirely underwhelming, I don't think these're the answer at all

[hollow shell]

@bitter drift Don't forget that you need to provide reasons for all of these

[bitter drift]

reason

here is one

[frail mantle]

you should put the reason in the suggestion itself

[bitter drift]

ok but let me finish WoF

[tired haven]

I'd recommend doing reasons first so you maybe don't even need to finish waffle

[bitter drift]

i will type the reason last and say it's for all of them (cuz it is)

[frail mantle]

tbh i feel like just because of the Confusion on the Polter one+the fact that it vores a buff slot would solely make it so that no one would use the Polter lore at all

[sinful violet]

Rebind

[dusty stirrup]

People will just rebind controls because it's permanent

[sinful violet]

Huge brain

[dusty stirrup]

Make it so it switches every 10 seconds or something at the very least

[sinful violet]

phup you suck

[dusty stirrup]

:^)

[sinful violet]

i dislike you very much

[frail mantle]

afaik debuffs that shit with your movement are the most commonly hated (stoned, frozen, glacial state, confused), and endgame you usually use up your buff slots pretty quickly, especially if you're something like Summoner

[bitter drift]

so i guess the polter one is not as thought out

[quick ice]

Yeah, I can get behind changing these items so that they aren’t just increased grab reach with no downside but I feel like the WoF and Polterghast ones could do with some work

[bitter drift]

why WoF?

no canonical reason?

i can type that in an edit

[lost agate]

That suggestion says buff a hella lot of times

[bitter drift]

xD

so any way to change the polter debuff?

to make it pop sometimes instead of all the time

[dusty stirrup]

Every 5 seconds

[bitter drift]

ok

[quick ice]

For WoF the downside doesn’t seem to do anything that impactful, since unless I’m reading wrong you’ll just regenerate some life back using your invincibility frames after you’re hit

[cobalt rose]

each individual suggestion is supposed to have its own reason, you can't just put a reason on one of them and have it apply to all of them

[dusty stirrup]

I think it's just a side effect of it being rather badly written, kratanuck

From what I understand, the leeches THEMSELVES are invicible?

[quick ice]

^
For simplicity’s sake, I would combine all 3 into 1 suggestion and tack the reasoning onto the end

[dusty stirrup]

I'm not sure why the "while" is there, though

[quick ice]

Yeah, I could have totally interpreted it wrong for the WoF lore

[bitter drift]

no the leeches are out only when you are invincible (by invince frames)

[dusty stirrup]

Then yeah that'll lead to quirky balance

[lost agate]

Wait so you only suck items when hit?

[dusty stirrup]

Looks like it

[lost agate]

H

[cobalt rose]

thats… rather odd

[bitter drift]

no

look at the enite buff it's 3 small buffs at once

1. gain some health
2. do some damage
3. suck up items

[dusty stirrup]

I'm feeling like it's needlessly complicated

[split narwhal]

How much extra damage would you take?please give an example

[frail mantle]

so basically, it's a combo of Thorns and Revivify potions with an added side effect of what the WoF lore already does

[bitter drift]

ya i guess you can say that

the reason i let this buff stay was that the WoF is the one of 2 bosses that outright pull you and the other one doesn't have a lore Item

[lost agate]

Why does wof lore needs anything extra again

[bitter drift]

read the reason

[lost agate]

Its basically a really early hardmode lore

[bitter drift]

it's for all 3

[split narwhal]

It’s fine as is

I think

[lost agate]

It doesnt need fucking leeches and shit

[indigo fog]

^

[bitter drift]

so every other boss should have an interesting lore Item effect but WoF doesn't?

[indigo fog]

Aren't lore items supposed to be really small bonuses

[lost agate]

[split narwhal]

You would also need a sprite for the leeches, and good luck with that one

[distant gyro]

lore items aren't supposed to be complex with new projectiles and shit

[indigo fog]

exactly

[distant gyro]

at best you could make it like vampiric talisman effect but imagine

[lost agate]

Ok sure lets have leeches that dissapear in one second, item grab and extra dmg in a single item

Nothing could go wrong

[sinful violet]

*cough cough eow lore

sorry altix

[bitter drift]

[lost agate]

[bitter drift]

and SG lore

[sinful violet]

What???

[bitter drift]

like be on permanent ice blocks EVEN with frost spark bootd is not crazy

totally fine

[sinful violet]

That’s not SG lore at all

[bitter drift]

that's is

slime god

[sinful violet]

Frostspark literally gives you so much more control

SG turns your feet into a fucking frictionless eldritch appendages

[bitter drift]

forgor a word

[frail mantle]

SG lore is kinda wack and very situational but it's not that complicated tbh

[bitter drift]

you still act like WoF's is wankier

[sinful violet]

Yours?

Because it is?

[split narwhal]

It is

[bitter drift]

yes mine

and you made a potion that does wankier things

[lost agate]

[bitter drift]

and this lore is basicly 3 potions at once for a REALY short time

[split narwhal]

Are you really taking odd mushroom seriously

[lost agate]

Wowie

[sand umbra]

Odd Mushroom literally exists to be out there and wacky

[indigo fog]

It's not that short of a time it you use fabsol's vodka or deific amulet

[lost agate]

Its not about the time

[bitter drift]

I'm not talking about the odd mushroom

[sand umbra]

...and to give you a 50% damage boost in exchange for going on an acid trip, but we don't talk about that part

[bitter drift]

the gravitational potion is much more wankier

[sand umbra]

gravitation potion is vanilla and it's bruh

next

[bitter drift]

not that potion

the calamity one

[indigo fog]

Gravity normalizer?

[zenith hazel]

how is gravity normalizer wanky

[bitter drift]

the one that sucks everything on the map

[sand umbra]

Ceaseless Hunger

[ashen warren]

how is that wanky?

[sand umbra]

which has nothing to do with gravity

[indigo fog]

^

[bitter drift]

how that is not wanky

[sand umbra]

that's also after Ceaseless Void

[split narwhal]

Every loot magnet is apparently wanky ??????

[ashen warren]

there are literally half a dozen more mods that add shit that suck items

[bitter drift]

even the loot magnet magnets everything ON SCEEN

[sand umbra]

it's literally mildly delayed variant of Cheat Sheet item magnet

but also cooler

[split narwhal]

The luifafk one doesn’t

[lost agate]

Its the fact you have an item which gives you damage, sucks in items, releases god fucks knows how many with scaling hp for whatever reason which serves as a clear screen of sort all of this on hit, as a wof drop, and you wanna tell me this is comparable to a debuff that makes you slippery??

God

[bitter drift]

it doesn't GIVE it DOES damage

[sand umbra]

lore items do not need to have these wacky over the top effects

[zenith hazel]

it’s still busted for a pre-hm lore item

[sand umbra]

that's the should-be job of the material accessories that have been neglected for months, if anything

[lost agate]

If this is just gonna turn into random dizzing other shit for the sake of your own sugg then im out

[bitter drift]

well that's why i made every single one of them in a different sughestion

[indigo fog]

it should just have small bonuses like all the other ones

[sand umbra]

literally just making the WoF lore item's item grab range boost actually noticeable would be a fine and dandy effect

[zenith hazel]

but the WoF one doesn’t sound balanced at all

[sand umbra]

because god knows you can't figure out it's even there rn

[bitter drift]

so if you don't like them this won't end all of them

[zenith hazel]

not to mention too complex for something pre-hm

hell it’s like way more complex than any lore item after that

[indigo fog]

post-wof is hardmode

[split narwhal]

This is the perfect example of trying to fit the asethetic of the boss but failing to properly balance it

[zenith hazel]

it’s still way too much regardless

[ancient widget]

"lore items do not need to have these wacky over the top effects"

I agree

[sand umbra]

it's best if they're just
simple boosts with simple downsides

[ancient widget]

I'm not going to program a wacky effect for something that's by design a somewhat-free bonus

[sand umbra]

all these super complex things are, in most cases, better suited for accessories

[ancient widget]

Wall of Flesh, Polter and Plantera lore items all increase grab ranges because all bosses have hook-like appendages

It's meant to be a progressive upgrade to your item grab range

[wide flicker]

OH that is why

Makes sense

[versed tundra]

Grab range bonusses are fine by me. We have enough lore items for stuff that relates to combat.

[frail mantle]

[distant gyro]

☑️ on the recent sug from the following
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/544795625183510549
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/589939414101262368
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/652256872354676756

[radiant meadow]

You only need to link the first one

Recent blue check does not invalidate a new suggestion if the original one sent is too old

[distant gyro]

I thought cut off point is supposed to be June 1st but greenchecked sug is at Feb 2019

bluechecks are dilemmas

[radiant meadow]

It makes sense is a terrible reason

[frail mantle]

^

[toxic kettle]

how does it make sense tho? Just because they're chests? Also 1/100 is way too high

[quick ice]

you should give some justification if you're going to say "It makes sense"

[polar dock]

1/100 ain't high for a shrine item

[quick ice]

the Shrine items are meant to be rare

if you can get them from an enemy drop it removes that

[polar dock]

Well yea but just make it a incredibly lower drop chance then.

[radiant meadow]

I think multiplayer uniqueness adds to its charm as a rare but not necessary item

[toxic kettle]

This is another case of "Farming or Exploring is annoying"

Which is like, the whole point of Terraria

[polar dock]

No,I enjoy both of those things.

It's more I dont want to go onto 3 different worlds for 8 hours to find a fungal symbiote

[toxic kettle]

well you don't need 3 worlds for that

[elder mist]

thats a good suggestion

damn

[copper flame]

you can use cheat sheet to get shrine items for your friends

[elder mist]

ah yes lemme just interrupt a multiplayer world for cheat sheet rq

in addition to the fact it'd be cheating to get those items

[copper flame]

Well yeah

[elder mist]

...yeah

[copper flame]

Make your friends find shrine items in their own worlds

[green pumice]

shrine items are pure luck or just teleportation potion spam so this is neat

[elder mist]

some aren't rly luck

[quick ice]

Desert and Evil Biome shrines are easy to find

[elder mist]

ye

desert is the only useful one anyway

[copper flame]

[Hell shrine cries]

[elder mist]

and ig postml granite biome's one is good too

[ashen warren]

I thought Hell shrine was the only one that is actually guaranteed to spawn

[quick ice]

it is

[green pumice]

luxor stinky iirc

[quick ice]

and Abyss but that's always there

[elder mist]

all of them are guaranteed to spawn

[green pumice]

world gen is just dumb

[elder mist]

well except corruption and crimson if you have the opposite world evil

obv

[ashen warren]

What if you have both because TerraCustom

[elder mist]

then you get whatever world option you chose at worldgen

so doesnt matter

[quick ice]

yeah, hopefully we'll get some more shrines for the biomes that don't have them (Like Astral and Hallowed shrines generating at the start of hardmode somewhere underground)

you uh, do realize that they're vanity capes right?

[tulip parcel]

Yes?

Magic Scarf and Hat does the same thing

and it's a vanity item as well

[quick ice]

oh, they do?

[tulip parcel]

Yes

[quick ice]

alright then, my bad.

[radiant meadow]

Only if you equip it though

Not put it in vanity

[tulip parcel]

Yeah, and I imagine you'd have to equip the capes into a regular slot as well

[void kelp]

@ Vorbis I think you can add a more explicit reason and it’ll work better

[polar dock]

The shrines dont always spawn

[ashen warren]

That would he a cool idea tho

[frail mantle]

that is indeed true

[tulip parcel]

heck, one of them is even named "winter cape"

[quick ice]

@frosty dagger with this, you could go so far as to suggest that they make every biomes enemies immune to their biome Effects.
For instance, corrupt enemies are immune to cursed flames and Crimson Immune to ichor, or Jungle enemies are immune to poison and so on

[frosty dagger]

Great idea

[keen geyser]

they definitely should

[tulip parcel]

I just had an idea

but it might not be feasible

is there any way to determine where lightning strikes during rains torms

or is it totally random

[distant gyro]

@frosty dagger
what? extractinator is literally found like everywhere tbh, generated and in chests
also: amber crawlers

[safe sail]

the desert

the desert will like always have at least 3 extractinators

[distant gyro]

By experience, I find 8+ extractinators every pt

[safe sail]

i always find it when my life isnt relying on it

[distant gyro]

and they end up becoming free money tbh

waiting for the day people extractinate novae slag

[subtle oracle]

A recipe for a extractinator is literally useless, that item is very common. Just go underground and you'll find one, underground deserts have alot of them

[tulip parcel]

The reason I asked was because I was going to propose that conductive metals (copper to gold) increase the chance of lightning striking that position by 500%

to the point where it's near constant lightning

the reason why is for potentially making a lightning rod using an armor stand wearing the appropriate armor

[distant gyro]

it's random everything

[tulip parcel]

can it become non-random in the pressence of something that forces it?

[mystic cloak]

You want a real extractinator suggestion, crafting recipe for solutions.

Cause unless you wanna build a house for every single area just to get said specific colour solution, you would be better off using a potential crafting recipe for it.

[night cradle]

The thing is that both the Darkecho and Barinautical are bows which require you to beat a boss

Cryogen and Aquatic Scourge, respectively

[mystic cloak]

We're considering the fact that this is the mecha-cryo range.

There is so little reason next to no reason as to why you should use it, when you could just pull up a daedalus and just meme your way through the entire run

[night cradle]

The Flarewing might be weak, but comparing it to bows which are supposed to be stronger isn't exactly what you should do

[mystic cloak]

And with the gear progression standard, you may use it for one fight, if barely even, and then its completely forgotten about until you need to use the recipe to make the gale

When you look at the class setup suggestions, it recommends the flarewing bow alongside said bows at this time, yet it barely stands out before, or after

[ashen warren]

Oh cool. My suggestion reached 90 stars. Hopefully it gets considered.

[frail mantle]

maybe provide some kill times with the Flarewing bow in Rev ripperless

[mystic cloak]

Star cannon also deals considerably more damage, and is still somehow more viable even considering star drops.

gratz maxwell

[night cradle]

damage as in base or dps?

[mystic cloak]

Damage as in base is mainly what would help it.

[ashen warren]

They likely got their plate full rn. I saw the post of recently delivered suggs

[mystic cloak]

Even a few point change would help cement a place.

Like I guess a good example is p90. It's got high dps, but a low base damage to balance it because if we crank its base up, it'd be too op

The argument for the flarewing bow is that the base is far too low for what the dps is supposed to be.

considering multi-arrow, and unique arrow mechanic.

[ashen warren]

Isnt flarewing the one from hell?

[mystic cloak]

Flarewing is the upgraded version of the hell bow

[ashen warren]

Ah

Hellwing. Looks good. But trash tier

[mystic cloak]

When we also take into account arrow damages, and the availability of the daedalus, we have no real reason to ever consider the flarewing

The lunarian bow honestly feels more viable.

Ok that may be a stretch.

[frail mantle]

still, you should try killing for example Cryogen in Rev and taking note of how long it takes so we can see how weak/strong it is

[mystic cloak]

I've tested dps on dummies, as well as mobs, and bosses

[night cradle]

flarewing is useful for Cryo from what I remember, and as well for the Twins
they both are early bosses and I think it's supposed to be that way; it's supposed to be on par with other early Hardmode weapons you get

[frail mantle]

dps isn't all that matters

[mystic cloak]

and from a subjective point of view, I've noticed considerable differences.

[frail mantle]

also testing on dummies is

[night cradle]

^

[mystic cloak]

completely ignores mobs and bosses.

ok.

Aloe, realistically, what's stopping someone from just using a daedalus and completely forgetting about the flarewing bow?

Has more damage, more arrows, more dps, and better synergies and mobbing potential.

[frail mantle]

i am fully aware that you tested on bosses, but you should still test how long it takes just so we know

[mystic cloak]

Only restriction is height.

Do I look like a youtuber that takes the time to find every millisecond difference.

[keen geyser]

i mean

you need to have a valid reasoning

[versed mica]

Yeah

[frail mantle]

^

[keen geyser]

in terms of kill times

for it to be even considered

[versed mica]

It doesn’t matter what it seems like, it needs data

[frail mantle]

you should provide proof that it's deserving of a buff

[mystic cloak]

From my most recent experience which was literally about last weekend or so when we were testing against the mechanicals and cryogen, we noticed a considerable dps difference.

[versed mica]

Just casually time the fight

[mystic cloak]

Considering accuracy, daedalus had higher hit rate averages, and was more likely to land hits on bosses such as twins, destroyer, prime, and cryogen

[frail mantle]

dps isn't all that matters

[mystic cloak]

Pierce, daedalus still wins out, due to fire-rate, amount of arrows fired, arrow synergy, and also the arrow damage being higher because the specialized arrows from Flarewing do have a lower damage value than holy arrows

[keen geyser]

hellwing

?

[mystic cloak]

sorry my bad

lemme correct that

[keen geyser]

I was gonna say

[mystic cloak]

There we go

Brainfart, my apologies lol.

[frail mantle]

currently all you're doing is claiming Flarewing is bad without showing any proof
if you test it on a boss and show us how long it took, it'll show whether it really is bad

[mystic cloak]

Damage, when we consider the base of the daedalus not only being higher, but also having a faster fire-rate/arrow release rate on average, we can generally deduce that yes, it would deal more damage, but that's not even considering the arrow damage gained from holy arrows, as well as the special effect, vs the "unique wooden arrows" of the flarewing.

Rough estimation for time

[keen geyser]

when talking game balance

rough estimates aren't valid

[frail mantle]

^

[mystic cloak]

Since I don't feel like recording an autobiography I'll give you the most accurate time evaluation I can

because I don't feel like trying to download a million and one recording softwares.

[frail mantle]

then we won't know how well it actually does against any bosses, only how well you think it'll do

[mystic cloak]

I call it rough because it's a damn google stop watch

[keen geyser]

I'm gonna test it rn

revengeance cryogen

[mystic cloak]

Now quit your pitchfork jabbing leon, because it's not just what I think, it's just measuring with a damn google stop watch isn't the best.

I'm on death mode, so it will carry dif results void.

[keen geyser]

okay, death then

[frail mantle]

the mod is balanced around Rev

[mystic cloak]

I'm on death mode so I'm taking the results from that.

Too bad.

[frail mantle]

i'm not carrying any pitchforks, i'm simply stating that actually using the bow against an early HM boss and seeing how long it takes is better than trying to calculate how well it does

[mystic cloak]

Now, are we talking specific class set up from the wiki, for "perfect measurement"

or are we talking general range of equipment.

[frail mantle]

just general equipment, not glass cannon, Rev ripperless

[keen geyser]

seems like an average cryo build, right

[frail mantle]

should be fine, i think

[tired haven]

Statigel tho?

[keen geyser]

what else

[tired haven]

Anything out of hm ore?

[keen geyser]

oh right, this is ranger

[tired haven]

rogue went rough

[keen geyser]

Titanium?

[mystic cloak]

Probably statigel

One moment

[ashen warren]

wheres ur dash

[mystic cloak]

The exact gear I had at the time of cryogen

Not using wing slot because that would imbalance it.

[keen geyser]

reforges?

[mystic cloak]

Potions will be anything available from alch table and blood orbs.

Reforges are angry on first 2 and menacing on last 4

[keen geyser]

so.. you didn't use wings

at all

[mystic cloak]

I didn't use wings.

I took them off specifically for this.

shit I just nuked the time

well fuck time to go do it again.

Potions are as standard for ranger, accessible by blood orb and alch table

Endurance, iron, soaring, yharim, etc.

Arrows will be holy, daedalus bow as our initial run

Then I will test with the flarewing, arrows wooden, same stuff as before, unreal forges on both.

[frail mantle]

wouldn't it be better to go with Ichor or something

[mystic cloak]

We're testing it with specifically the wooden arrow unique mechanic for flare wing

For "full accuracy" yada yada.

[frail mantle]

the wooden arrow mode isn't the only thing that should be considered but ok

[sand umbra]

it still absolutely should be accounted for either way

the fact that it has the mechanic in the first place is enough to tell you that

[mystic cloak]

give or take

daedalus as our control

probably could've aimed a touch better

but it works

Now we'll test wooden arrows, flarewing bow, same stuff as before.

Unreal forge, same gear, same accessories, etc.

Wooden arrow flarewing bow test being done now, one moment.

[keen geyser]

With flarewing and wooden arrows I went from 5pm to 8:32pm

[sand umbra]

so 3:32

not a horrible time, but not a great one either

[tired haven]

probably because bats pierce iframes

[keen geyser]

^

got like 1:42 ripperless death cryo with daedalus

no arena

[mystic cloak]

Ok I'm back, still don't have the time yet as unfortunately I had to answer a call

[sand umbra]

mmm
it ain't lookin' too hot for Flarewing here

[mystic cloak]

I'mma get that time now

[keen geyser]

and from 11:30 to 1:56 with ichor arrows

[distant gyro]

I'll be looking to change some weapons if needed

[keen geyser]

I'd say from what I can gather from this

that daedameme is too strong

[distant gyro]

it's always nae nae stormbow isn't it

[keen geyser]

as per usual

[distant gyro]

[mystic cloak]

flarewing wooden arrows

And something I noticed

[keen geyser]

are you using an arena

[mystic cloak]

Lemme take a picture of where I fought him.

Would that count as an "arena"?

We did flatten it out a bit

but that's all we did

[distant gyro]

let me try this myself

[keen geyser]

recommended

[mystic cloak]

Using a past multiplayer world

All we did was flatten out the land a little, and then fought him

So I'd say no arena

aka natural environment

And now I'll test ichor arrows

Also wait I just noticed something

When you were fighting cryo

did you notice that even though you landed DIRECT hits with all arrows, only 1 tick of damage showed?

[keen geyser]

yes

that's how piercing works

[mystic cloak]

with wooden arrows

[keen geyser]

iframes

[mystic cloak]

Lunarian bow doesn't get affected by that

darklight doesn't either

[keen geyser]

darklight doesn't pierce

[mystic cloak]

Yet you can still get piercing arrows.

[keen geyser]

does it?

[mystic cloak]

Holy arrows, jester arrows.

stuff as simple as that.

[keen geyser]

the stars pierce

[mystic cloak]

Also the bouncy dart thing

[keen geyser]

the arrows dont

[tired haven]

Lunarian doesn't pierce naturally

[mystic cloak]

Lunarian also has multiple arrows that hit at the same time

[tepid root]

yes but they dont really pierce

[keen geyser]

arrows that dont pierce dont trigger iframes

[mystic cloak]

Also if we use jester arrows as a control

I'll test it now to see.

[tired haven]

Sure do

You will see the difference

(hell, you can even notice how rapid archerfish is worse than default one)

altho that's a different topic

[mystic cloak]

still single hit.

oh yeah true archerfish is a mess

Holy arrow stars pierce yet they still hit "indefinitely" (as in they can all hit) whilst the arrows all hit

Actually I'mma test the flarewing with holy arrows

Flarewing holy arrow test was 1:48

and considering how I aimed like ass on the daedalus run, it's not looking pretty.

Daedalus holy arrows w/out potato aim

now flarewing with ichor

Flarewing with ichor arrows

Now a mineral mortar test for comparison of similar weapons

rocket 1, mineral mortar, unreal forge

Mineral mortar time

Star cannon, murderous forge (we all know its gonna be short, but if dedicated enough people can farm hella stars, even with the painful restriction of that)

[distant gyro]

Gear: Frost Armor, Frozen Wings, Frostspark Boots, Counter Scarf, Deific Amulet, Grand Gelatin Magic Quiver
Buffs: Yharim's Power, Wrath, Rage, Archery, Well Fed

Flarewing Bow: 3:29
Titanium Repeater: 3:24
Lunarian Bow: 2:00```

that's a done

[mystic cloak]

So uh I ran out of stars for the star cannon.

Holy shit the lunarian bow won by a land slide.

Oh yeah my buffs were a fuck ton of farming blood orbs and obtaining pots through alch table

Lemme list em out

[distant gyro]

intended cryo kill time is 3 minutes

I guess it's time to butcher lunarian

[mystic cloak]

Archer, Wrath, Rage, Ammo, Swift, Endurance, Cadance, Ironskin, Thorn, Regen, Yhar-yhar's bizzare stimulants, well fed, bounding, fab, soaring.

2 Angry accessory reforge, 4 menacing reforge

Unreal reforges for ALL weapons used

Already listed all my gear before hand in the picture

@distant gyro Try doing it with daedalus

[keen geyser]

lunarian bow does it that fast

jesus

[tired haven]

So the lunarian was the real mvp all along

bruh

[distant gyro]

Stormbow was 1:32, no surprise there

[tired haven]

Though how does lunarian achieve that? Higher accuracy with cryo hitbox?

(since it's unlikely to hit all 5 arrows of flarewing)

[mystic cloak]

lunarian, ichor

See, when I said it was essentially potato compared to the lunarian, I was right

but I think that's more a statement of how strong the lunarian is over the flare wing

or maybe both

IDK lunarian op, flarewing underpowered?

Lunarian has faster arrows, no arrow drop, both arrows hit at all times

[tired haven]

It seems more like lunarian op than flarewing up

[mystic cloak]

also arrows can drift on floor

so when he goes into blocks you can fire at the floor to trap it

[subtle oracle]

I swear fenly's suggestion is so right, I literally cannot use the flarewing bow. It doesn't feel viable enough for combat

[mystic cloak]

^^

That's why I put it there

Lemme also test the darklight bow with jesters

just to emphasize the piercing

eventho is cryo tier it is still paired with flare in the 'class setup' area of premech with it

Just like mineral mortar is

and mineral mortar is near the same time as lunarian bow

and is still premecha

[tired haven]

What bothers me is how flarewing is considered weak if it's literally 1/2 (actually 3/5 because arrow dmg exists) of tsunami which is post-golem tier

Lunarian bow is pre-wof and certainly shouldn't do as much as it does rn even as strong combo of other bows

[mystic cloak]

Unreal darkecho test

ichor arrow, for control

[near rover]

I haven’t used lunarian bow seriously, but I will note that it killed bosses up to the twins horrifyingly fast in normal mode

[distant gyro]

welp, that just went from 0 to 100 real fast

[near rover]

I thought the carnage ray was scary

[distant gyro]

I mildly "adjusted" flarewing and now it killed cryo in 1:20

[subtle oracle]

Whoa, guess it really makes a difference huh

[mystic cloak]

Darkecho, ichor arrows

[distant gyro]

no it made it shoot faster

quite.. a bit faster

[mystic cloak]

Inb4 stat-rigging kek

and yeah Lunarian bow is extremely formidable

same with the daedalus

Which is my argument clear as day.

Flarewing is just simply not good enough amongst all other bows

and future options make it completely irrelevant

Jester arrow Darkecho run now

for the pierce iframe bs

[distant gyro]

[mystic cloak]

Lol that fucking emote

[distant gyro]

how's this for a buff

[mystic cloak]

Holy shit

if it double fired like that

that would be insanely strong

might actually make it viable lol

[terse sundial]

that's pure evil

[tired haven]

Nice tsunami vro...,

[mystic cloak]

kek

[near rover]

That looks terrifying

I love it

[mystic cloak]

That would actually make it somewhat viable

although I think that'd be a bit much for something pre-cryo

Hell just making all the arrows hit but lower the pierce would be considerably more helpful

[near rover]

Yeah, looks like it’d rip cryo apart

[tired haven]

Just out of interest, can you test ichor arrow tsunami?

[mystic cloak]

keep the low base if you make em all hit, or something

Ichor arrow tsunami?

Sure

[tired haven]

thanks, it just itches a lot to see how that compares to darkecho and such

[mystic cloak]

Unreal forge

Is the tsunami duke level?

[tired haven]

Yes

[mystic cloak]

Gotcha

[subtle oracle]

Flarewing is literally just a pre hmode tsunami

[tired haven]

pre-mech*

[distant gyro]

early hm

[near rover]

That looks like, way more terrifying than the chlorophyte shot bow, 10 or so less damage for that many more arrows and higher accuracy

[subtle oracle]

What?

I am mistaken then

[near rover]

Broken

[tired haven]

Essence of sunlight is hm so ye

[mystic cloak]

If the answer of "it shreds" was what you were looking for

then yes,

yes it does.

Tsunami, ichor arrow, unreal forge.

[tired haven]

3 times faster than flarewing?

Now that's weird

[mystic cloak]

@subtle oracle He edited the bow for an example for a buff

that is far from the original bow, we fucking wish it was

[subtle oracle]

Oh ok

[mystic cloak]

Gonna test titanium repeater now

Ichor arrow, unreal forge

[near rover]

I don’t wish it was the original, it would be horrifically broken

Even better than the shot bow

[mystic cloak]

Man I am terrible with the titanium repeater lol

Pika let's still consider the fact that it'd only be 1 arrow hitting with woodens, and the low base

It would still have very little impact, but maybe would make it actually worth using

considering lunarian, and daedalus still have MUCH better times

OH You know what we could test?

The arbalest!

[terse sundial]

arbalest is going to be strong no matter what

[tired haven]

Tbh if wooden arrows on flarewing fired 1 bat and 4 flaming/other fancy fire arrows(?) to the sides, that would have improved it a fair bit as a budget option

[terse sundial]

it's a RIV

[mystic cloak]

yo wtf arbalest is spooky

[tired haven]

arbalest is just rare pre-nerf daedalus after all

[mystic cloak]

This shit was as fast as a darkecho

Unreal forge, ichor arrows

Or just a much faster fire rate or fire stronger bat for a unique arroww

I'll do a control for megashark

for comparison of like "post cryo" weps

Ok updated post with some time examples

[terse sundial]

maybe not embed the images

[tired haven]

Just, write the numbers

[terse sundial]

it clutters the entire channel

[tired haven]

It's not like images of timer will give it more validity

ty

[mystic cloak]

There you go

unreal megashark with crystal bullets

now to see stronk gun

chloro bullet godly p90

who needs aiming lol

ok that one was a meme

But I guess have we proven that flarewing needs an improvement in some sort of roundabout way

And let's say theoretically, you kill aquatic scourge and get a barinautical

Ichor arrow, godly barinautical

I am speed.

[frail mantle]

so, tl;dr Flarewing needs a bit of a buff and Lunarian needs to be slapped to hell?

[mystic cloak]

Essentially yeah.

Lunarian is pretty stupid stronk

we need to drop the base damage for it lol

And we need to up the base for flare a little

[tired haven]

Hmm, taking a look at molten as guideline for lunarian won't hurt

[sand umbra]

what's this about Lunarian being strong for a post-SG bow

[mystic cloak]

So uh

[sand umbra]

meanwhile Molten is post-EoW/BoC (pre-boss if Reaver Shark meme)

[mystic cloak]

Lunarian bow killed cryogen at 1:19

[sand umbra]

.

ah

[mystic cloak]

That's as fast as the mineral mortar

Aka a weapon for that tier.

Lunarian bow is op

[sand umbra]

what is it with these post-SG bootleg Night's Edge weps being busted

[mystic cloak]

Lunarian bow is pre-WOF

[sand umbra]

the Rays were just nerfed a few updates ago for the same reason

[mystic cloak]

and the fuckin

pre-mech weapons

compare to it.

Damn good thing the rays got nerfed

also bruh don't even get me started on the archerfish

shittiest fucking abyss weapon hands down like wtf even

[near rover]

When were the rays nerfed? I used them months ago and they absolutely malled boc making it extremely useful for armegeddon grinding

[mystic cloak]

Thing is though

[near rover]

I don’t think I could’ve gotten as far in revengeance without them

[mystic cloak]

night&carnage ray are post perf/hive

[sand umbra]

this was after the weapon tier list stream

[mystic cloak]

Meaning ofc it'll maul the brain of cthulhu

[sand umbra]

Night's and Carnage Ray are both post-SG

[mystic cloak]

oh shit yeah

post-sg/pre-wof

I am potato

[sand umbra]

(and also require Hive Mind and Perfs respectively to be defeated, but that's not the point)

[mystic cloak]

yeah true lol

[near rover]

Even so it also did a number on wof and let me beat what was probably a much more difficult fight with relative ease

Can’t imagine how much more of a massacre it is in lower difficulties

[mystic cloak]

Damn the ray is strong wtf

even still

I mean then again even the wiki says "fires a particle beam that fires smaller beams every few tiles"

Rule of exponential growth.

Pretty simple to understand

[sand umbra]

not nearly as strong as it used to be

[mystic cloak]

but yeah that's nasty for a pre-wof boss

Oh god it was worse?

[near rover]

Yeah, and the main beam pierces doesn’t it? The hungries didn’t stand a chance

[mystic cloak]

Then again, when has mage ever really had a problem with wall of flesh lol

when has mage even had a problem with bosses to begin with

[sand umbra]

DoG

actually no, SCal

[near rover]

I honestly love calamity for making mage more viable all around, I always felt like in vanilla ranger outclassed everything till post plantera

[mystic cloak]

everyone has a problem at SCal kek.

[near rover]

No kidding

[distant gyro]

where would you like mage to be viable

I need labels

[mystic cloak]

Mage has always been viable

its just that ranged was broken in base game

[distant gyro]

[mystic cloak]

kek

[sand umbra]

tbf, mage SCal has become more workable with the Vivid Clarity rework and the introduction of Hadopelagic Echo
but for the longest time, your only consistent and easily-obtained option for SCal was Subsuming Vortex

[mystic cloak]

Yeah

[distant gyro]

wand is still wand

unfortunately

[mystic cloak]

Lol yeah

[sand umbra]

Wand is meme
old VC made no sense
Void Vortex was and still is a rare Yharon drop
and finally, you have the true meme, Yharim's Crystal

[tired haven]

Let me see
Mage had problems with early game because mana, hm/perf tier because it gets nothing jaja, mech tier because discount ranger (that includes calamitas doppel), post-golem bosses without vesuvius because it gets staff of earth jajaja, birb, providab and yhahar (scal hopefully fixed)

[mystic cloak]

Yharim crystal

[sand umbra]

SCal's definitely better now that VC makes sense and Echo exists

[mystic cloak]

Bruh you wanna talk about issues, look at old rogue at levi tier

hoooly fuck that shit was pain

Literally all you got was brackish and sandstorm

[distant gyro]

wait what

[mystic cloak]

AND BOTH WERE FUCKING TRAAAAASH

[sand umbra]

are you saying the Stellar Knife once had a period of inviability?

[tired haven]

Levi was pain, not the rogue

[mystic cloak]

and before sandstorm

was a thing

Like waaay way back

[sand umbra]

are you claiming the Stellar Knife to be any less than the second best rogue weapon ever

[distant gyro]

birb, providab and yhahar

[tired haven]

Stellar knife is a newer weapon thomas

[sand umbra]

oh

[mystic cloak]

Stellar knife didn't exist then

[sand umbra]

pensive

[distant gyro]

these were never a problem iirc

[sand umbra]

not having Stellar Knife for Siren and Leviathan sounds painful

[mystic cloak]

Bruh you're fucking telling me

[distant gyro]

especially when yharhar got explodey diarrhea staff

[tired haven]

Birb felt like an hp wall until literally skipped to polter

Providab maybe overexxagerated cuz prism could have carried but ech

[near rover]

I struggled so hard on my revengeance mage playthrough at mech tier that i rage swapped to rogue lmao

[mystic cloak]

When all you had was the elemental disk to save you from providence in old rev

ah... pain

It took me 10 fights to get a first clear on prov

[sand umbra]

implying post-ML mage needs anything other than Last Prism to survive

[tired haven]

Either way, early postML mage is literally tickling enemies with anything but ray and prism, at least from my experience

[mystic cloak]

and what ended up happening was we made an arena box to prevent most of the projectiles from hitting

[sand umbra]

doesn't matter, you have the Last Prism
which is by far the strongest weapon in the vanilla game

[mystic cloak]

and what ended up happening was I spent an entire day fighting providence kiting with elemental disks until it lagged

[tired haven]

Like, sure, it was viable, but 1 weapon for a whole stage to carry? bblergh