Still sucks
#suggestions-discussion
swift wadi
sand umbra
I was going to save this sugg for a bit later down the road but WHATEVER
HEY new sugg in town can we talk about it instead please 
zealous ridge
lost agate
Would you go through the effort to have to endure this long and messy discussions, having your brain scrambled and just shit going wild
For an item you didnt even make
placid moth
I forgot Crystal Flare Staff existed till you mentioned it
hollow shell
@gusty grail High melee speeds break yoyos
is usually one go-to justification for the melee speed cap
swift wadi
Bruh removing the cap is a bad idea
hollow shell
not "break" like they're too OP
I mean like they can't be thrown
sand umbra
actually, Rover
sand umbra
that's no longer an argument
hollow shell
Oh did that get fixed?
hollow shell
That's nice
lost agate
You know whats an argument tho
hard crescent
well if you choose to use yoyos with that much melee speed thats your own fault
ashen warren
It is fixed in latest tml yes
lost agate
10 second striker kill for doggo
sand umbra
byeah
hollow shell
(Also I don't think any other stats except melee speed are hardcapped?)
gusty geode
When you say Frost Staff you referring to Staff of the Frost Hydra or something else
sand umbra
[[thc: Frost Staff]]
red stormBOT
lost agate
The item literally called frost staff yes
hollow shell
Very forgettable item
swift wadi
It could be in the config with a message like "These are in the mod for a reason and you might experience a broken playthrough after taking them off, be warned."
gusty grail
I forgot that thing existed
hollow shell
hence why you thought the name must've been a mistake
sand umbra
but yeah I mean this thing that you'll probably never get in a normal playthrough because it drops from 3 enemies
at a 2% chance
hollow shell
@hard crescent That's a "chain suggestion"
Don't do that
Suggestions should stand on their own
hard crescent
oh
sand umbra
the only one you'll actually consistently go out of your way to fight is Ice Golems
and only as long as it takes you to get 3 Frost Cores and an Ice Feather
gusty grail
Bassicly can lego retype the suggestion but have it stand as its own
lost agate
(btw thomas i dont think mentioning an apocalypse in your sugg is a good idea lmao)
swift wadi
Why isn't it called the Frost Flare Staff
hollow shell
Too similar
swift wadi
Frozen Flare Staff?
sand umbra
(sorry I've got nothing interesting for this one's header, still very frazzled from everything that just happened)
gusty grail
Frost staff came first i believe
lost agate
Frost staff is your generic magic peojectile staff but ice
hollow shell
Frozen Flare is better
random flume
water bolt is more interesting
sand umbra
...actually, you know what I should've done to begin with
random flume
frost staff sucks
hollow shell
"Frost Flare" is also the name of a very problematic accessory dropped by Cryogen
hollow shell
We're gettin into vanilla suggestions now
swift wadi
There's a frost mimic?
hollow shell
We need not this convo.
sand umbra
like now that I think about it it'd actually be really interesting to make Frost Staff into a crafted item
I'm gonna go do that real quick, brb
random flume
yeah that would be cool
swift wadi
EE change T Hanos?
hollow shell
that's 3 crafts
gusty geode
Tbf Calamity added the Murasama knowing full well the Muramasa exists
Confusing names haven't stopped it before 
placid moth
Is Frost Armor even good actually
sand umbra
it has a bootleg synergy with Frozen Wings
swift wadi
It's actually very good for Ranger and Melee
sand umbra
except now that Bat Wings exist any argument for that is irrelevant
lost agate
Murasama is a reference
placid moth
Why Soul of Cryogen exist
sand umbra
because Bat Wings are the objectively best wing set in early Hardmode after a mech is downed
gusty geode
So is Muramasa tho
Or at least I thought
swift wadi
But that relies on luck for eclipse
random flume
thats right you can inflict frostburn on melee and ranged attacks
hollow shell
They are indeed both references
swift wadi
Or an early venture into the temple
random flume
gusty geode
They're referencing the same thing 
lost agate
Uh no?
hollow shell
Yeah but one's slightly more roundabout :P
swift wadi
Muramasa is the name of an old sword that became a legend, it could not be sheathed until it drew blood
lost agate
Wait is the MGR blade referencing something else?
hollow shell
Murasama is a pun of Muramasa
"sama" is a Japanese honorific
"Oh Koichi-sama, hello!"
sand umbra
it's a play on the famous swordsmith, which Muramasa references in the first place, and "-sama"
lost agate
Huh, go figure
swift wadi
Murasama uses -sama, which means elder, it's the elder, more matured version of the Muramasa
hard crescent
well theres a separate suggestion for the cap
potent veldt
3 different people explained it all at once lol
gusty geode
That
Makes sense actually
swift wadi
It's also a reference to Sam's Sword iirc
lost agate
or its a Sam self insert
hard crescent
ill rephrase
gusty geode
Still
This kinda feels like the Chaos Slime
Where you gotta wonder what the thought process behind it was
hollow shell
wdym Squid?
sand umbra
...or at least as far as anyone trying to explain to me why Murasama is fine where it is will tell me 
gusty geode
Making an item that's a reference to something that an existing item already references
hollow shell
... pardon?
lost agate
Its there so we can fight nanomachine man with it later
hollow shell
what's that gotta do with Chaos Slime . _.
sand umbra
inb4 it's locked to post-Draedon once Draedon exists
lost agate
That would just be wasted potential
swift wadi
"melee is already stronger than like every other class"
hard crescent
If a weapon is broken, you nerf the weapon. I dont see the point of an overall lockdown on an entire class
swift wadi
Laughs in Ranger and Rogue
gusty grail
I miss when eldritch soul artifact removed the cap
hard crescent
fuc
sand umbra
you're right, AotC is a ranger wep
gusty geode
They both just seem like
Really weird decisions
And I'm not sure how they managed to get into the final game
sand umbra
hollow shell
Squid this was not the elaboration I required
swift wadi
AotC is basically a ranger weapon xd
ashen warren
hollow shell
I've had "Chaotic Ore used to be in the Underworld." in my clipboard the past 5 minutes
Gimme a chance
lost agate
Murasama its just an MGR reference whats weird about that?
sand umbra
anywho that's opening a whole different can of worms that I've tried to open before and got a lot of backlash for
moving back to
wait a minute what are we talking about again
hard crescent
about melee cap
gusty grail
I cant remmeber
hard crescent
at least for true melee
sand umbra
okay we're talking about the egregious amount of MGR references in Calamity, gacha
hard crescent
very cool
queen sail
The only issues I have with Murasama is that it’s not very viable in its current state (said many times)
gusty geode
Idek
I just found it funny that it exists when another weapon is referencing the exact same thing
gusty grail
But they dont
sand umbra
MGR is like the most commonly referenced thing in Calamity though
gusty geode
Am I wrong
If I'm wrong apologies
lost agate
Also melee speed cap exists because melee speed is whats busted not the weapons
swift wadi
Murasama is an incredibly shortranged weapon that only exists at Exo-tier right?
queen sail
Nah, with the introduction of RIVs Borderlands is probably the most referenced
lost agate
With some efforts you can make weapons attack 5 times faster
queen sail
Thomas
hard crescent
hard disagree
sand umbra
oh shit you're right
ashen warren
You can get it at the beginning of the game iirc
sand umbra
RIVs are a giant Borderlands reference
gusty grail
I know but a config that has a warning it is overpowered to turn the cap off would be nice
hollow shell
Can't use it till post-Yharon
lost agate
And if thats the fault of the weapon then yikes
hollow shell
Yeah
gusty geode
RIVs are still a criminally underutilized idea
hollow shell
You can't hit SCal with true melee
swift wadi
Imagine using Murasama for BR instead of Nanoblack Reaper
hollow shell
Anyway what the fuck were we talking about? What's sugmarific about this convo?
sand umbra
I wish I could tell you, Rover
swift wadi
You right
sand umbra
but at this point I'm confused myself
hard crescent
hitting things fast is obviously really good, but lets take vanilla for instance;
ez win is fetid bagnaks and getting it down to 1 frame per hit
in doing so, you use up like 4 accessory slots, and take massive damage because you are so close to enemies/bosses.
swift wadi
Bad idea tbh, it would just be ech
sand umbra
~~no give me more Crystal Flare move validation a
/s~~
gusty grail
sand umbra
melee speed memery is really weird to balance against in its vanilla state
queen sail
take massive damage because you are close to enemies/bosses
lost agate
So what youre telling me is make all swords small as fuck
sand umbra
well yes
that's the point of Fetid Bagnakhs in the first place
hollow shell
I don't think tanking is possible in Calamity
lost agate
Because they have normal speed but go bunkers with melee speed
queen sail
I don’t know what massive damage you’re gonna imply since Tank strats always utilize high defense for survivability (usually at the cost of speed nonetheless)
lost agate
Just refresh my mind please
hard crescent
we dont nerf mana flower because its 'infinte mana', mana sickness is the handicap. the handicap for true melee is you get hit mostly. Calamity balance is really strange because the issue of "giant ass sword" is only an issue because calamity added it. idk how thats the stats fault
lost agate
Whats the attack speed of stellar striker
hard crescent
also you get hit by dog head on it doesnt matter if your 'tank'
hollow shell
Stellar Striker's got 24 (fast) usetime
sand umbra
20-24 is about the average, yeah
50% melee speed --- the Calamity-induced hardcap --- cuts that down to 10-12
that's literally doubled DPS because of how swords work
hard crescent
thats how math works yes
sand umbra
well, rather
hard crescent
also im not familiar with stallar strike specifically
sand umbra
doubled DPS on true melee weps
lost agate
And then you wanna tell me thats the weapons fault?
sand umbra
it gets more complicated with projectile weps for reasons I can't really go into without rambling for 10 minutes which I don't wanna do
hollow shell
Stellar Striker spawns a projectile on every hit iirc
lost agate
So we need to nerf all weaponso theyre useless unless you abuse melee speed?
hollow shell
which caused big memery when melee speed was not capped
gusty grail
I prefer my suggestion to leggos
gusty geode
Nobody ever answered my question about Paladin's Shield
hard crescent
a cap of "well, a 2 frame cooldown" seems more fair than "all weapons capped"
lost agate
2 frames is literally the lowest use time
gusty grail
Just add a config for it cause it is too op for normal play
hard crescent
rather have a cap for "every hit" projectiles than "all weapons in class capped"
gusty grail
Or a dev item to do it
lost agate
Thats just the same cap in another weird way
gusty geode
Had asked why a team-oriented accessory like that was crafted into accs that weren't also team-oriented
gusty geode
That was only 10 minutes ago 
hard crescent
its not quite the same cap, it lets the weapons that hit fast hit faster without spawning a ton of stuff
lost agate
But its still double the dps need i remind you
hard crescent
of the base hit, yes
lost agate
Which is only comparable to what yoyo bag does
Which literally makes all yoyos shit so its somewhat balanced
hard crescent
when rogue literally lets you deal quadruple damage consistently im confused why "hit faster, but dont shoot faster" is so bad
guaranteed crits on stealth strikes, plus they already do double damage
lost agate
So if you wanna keep the double dps and keep it somewhat balanced, then swords need to be shit without the double dps
sand umbra
that's more an issue of endgame rogue being horribly overtuned as it is currently
lost agate
We are already nerfing rogue
sand umbra
^ ye
hard crescent
its way earlier than endgame where thats apparent
also, dont a ton of projectiles give i frames
lost agate
And need i remind its different to have consistent double dps and a dps burst
hard crescent
idk if calamity differs than vanilla
quad damage every 2 seconds with a homing weapon 🤔
or "get close as hell to dog to deal more damage"
lost agate
Ok hold on
sand umbra
what exactly is your point here
lost agate
What quad damage and what 2 seconds
hard crescent
if you land on the ground (hook), you build stealth real quick
you charge it in like 2 seconds
sand umbra
...once you have Dark God's Sheath
hard crescent
so once your like halfway into the game, yes
sand umbra
and by that point you're already at the point in the game where you can't feasibly stand still during boss fights in the first place
hollow shell
It's 3 seconds without DGS
queen sail
Dark God’s Sheath is post LC
queen sail
By that point you’re literally in front of the gate to post ml content
lost agate
And again, you dint compare constant double dps to a single strong attack
hard crescent
is it post ml?
hollow shell
Very close to ML
sand umbra
it's basically right before ML
hollow shell
just before ML
hard crescent
yeah
queen sail
And where AD is
hard crescent
its not much of a "single strong attack" if it takes a quarter of a second to fire a second one
sand umbra
you have to stand still for that quarter of a second
sand umbra
do you understand how horrible of an idea this is with Calamity
hollow shell
Yeah it is doable but it's also very dangerous
hollow shell
Indeed
lost agate
Ok you know what
hard crescent
not sayign it shouldnt be nerfed or anything but yeah, risk and reward
lost agate
Where the hell is that gif
queen sail
It’s doable but literally do this at a point in the game where the bosses start focusing on movement and bullet hell patterns
hollow shell
The problem is it's prolly not worth the risk
sand umbra
what GIF, socks?
hard crescent
you try to stand still right fucking next to dog and hit it with a melee weapon, you'll get hit more
because rogue you can be anywhere to charge stealth
you cant (again, only counting true melee) hit enemies from too far away
also ive done god with rogue so ik standing still is viable but risky for sure
havent done anything past it so unsure about that
tldr is a blanket nerf to a whole class is silly, at the very least for true melee
well 50% nerf is silly anyway
teal ibex
i think you're misinterpreting the intent of the melee speed cap. it's not a "blanket nerf" in its design, but rather a preventative measure to allow for other weapons to be designed more interestingly and effectively.
hard crescent
maybe 75% or something that lets you achieve a higher melee speed
teal ibex
if a particular stat, in its most egregious cases, limits the design space of certain weapons being able to exist, it is a much more ideal outcome for developers to have a limiter to that stat so they can create other weapons that explore more interesting ideas -- without breaking down and destroying everything
hard crescent
and yet rod
teal ibex
what?
hard crescent
WEVE COME FULL CIRCLE
hollow shell
The melee speed nerf wasn't from some theoretical fear
hollow shell
Some melee weapons were evidently busted with uncapped speed
teal ibex
that's a false equivalency if i've ever seen it
hollow shell
so the cap was then put in place
hard crescent
ight well im clearly outnumbered here
hollow shell
pf
hard crescent
and also @teal ibex i mean "well there I could dodge attacks, or..."
teal ibex
i get what you mean
hard crescent
interesting patterns to avoid
teal ibex
i don't disagree and you are correct
hard crescent
but rod
hard crescent
im not startting this again lol i was mostly joking
sand umbra
can we go back to Crystal Flare Staff and Frost Staff yet
hard crescent
look, is there a way i can remove or raise the cap manually?
if its literally just me who wants to play without it and I can do that im happy
teal ibex
no, but the person above you suggested that exact thing
hollow shell
I don't think so, without uninstalling Calamity
hard crescent
right
sand umbra
what I think might be nice for this purpose is an endgame accessory similar to lul that reverts the melee speed change
so people can go have fun with it since it's the end of Calamity's progression
green pumice
touch rod of discord and we touch you 
queen sail
...
hard crescent
idk, ive got a whole meme about being a blender as my main and just exist as a living hitbox. I cant do it in calamity and its a sad
that is all
goodnight
sand umbra
now then, give me more Frost Staff and Crystal Flare Staff validation please and thank you
/s, probably
lost agate
Oh my fucking god how did this go to rod again
queen sail
ech (literally just a jpeg of )
Equippable
Removes every hardcap because y’all like to nut to that apparently
sand umbra
I don't know but I want to steer it away from RoD
sand umbra
literally the whole reason I pushed the Frost-Crystal Flare sugg earlier than I wanted to 
hard crescent
np
gusty grail
Dude ech would be a good cheat sheet only item
lost agate
I need to sleep
green pumice
the only items i know are in class setups hahaues
sand umbra
Crystal Flare is on Class Setups you memer
sand umbra
no, it's the Frost Staff upgrade
green pumice
wat
sand umbra
a.k.a. the upgrade that actually does nothing relevant to the base weapon and is about as fairly forgettable or slightly less
sand umbra
yeah that would be Crystal Vile Shard a.k.a. Hell Burst mat
green pumice
lemme go look on wiki real quick cause i have never heard of this
sand umbra
[[Crystal Flare Staff]]
red stormBOT
sand umbra
and then you have [[tgc:Frost Staff]]
red stormBOT
sand umbra
both are...less than impressive
sand umbra
basically
green pumice
so crystal flare staff is basically a shot that explodes on contact while frost staff just pierces once and dies
sand umbra
yes
green pumice
i see
sand umbra
both are outdone in their respective fields by other options on the same tier if you know where to look
Poseidon beats out Frost Staff easily, what with infinite piercing and homing
green pumice
(i have class fuck)
also shpc can replace everything until levi if you can bother to grind destroyer
sand umbra
DVD can handle crowd control better then Crystal Flare Staff with the only real downside being semi-low range, except Crystal Flare's range is nothing to write home about in the first place
green pumice
dvd?
gusty grail
Same thing happens with every legendary
green pumice
oh death valley
sand umbra
ye
queen sail
The thing with legendaries is that by the time you get them you’ve probably moved on to having much better weapons
Probably from going up a tier
You survived without having a legendary that you uhhhh
Sorta don’t need it
green pumice
perhaps
sinful violet
fun fact crystal flare staff used to solo up to plantera and even a little beyond
sand umbra
holy fuck
green pumice
distant gyro
@leaden token already implemented
distant gyro
read pins in #calamity-mod-talk and #other-mod-talk yes
I can say for sure that it works
except for that one time dog's treasure bag got duped into oblivion but shh
leaden token
Thanks so much, sorry i didn't realize earlier
green pumice
its fine, dont worry too much about it
distant gyro
delete the sug though tbh
radiant meadow
It sounds like I need to have a demonstration
Of what happens when you give stellar striker too much melee speed
@hard crescent the other issue with melee speed is that it can put certain weapons through the roof
Case in point: https://gyazo.com/d8f32f9da946949347be7b418f0b2733
keen geyser
what weapon is that
radiant meadow
Stellar striker
void kelp
true melee already can get super memey and broken with the right build
remove the melee speed cap and you can and will literally destroy anything with a weapon that’s crafted quite literally just after ML
ignoring the fact that true melee options for post-ML are few and far between though
ashen warren
Removing melee speed cap causes one thing
If u use do it with a copper cs mod
and copper cs is at max level
void kelp
breaks the game
ashen warren
Wrong
With the right accessories
It swings so fast that
its rounded down to 0 fps
So it doesnt hit
The sword is just there
void kelp
not rounded down, overflows to 0
hearty yew
@hard crescent as of TML 0.11.6.2, melee speed no longer breaks yoyos
They move rather spastically but they don't divide by zero and perish
The yoyo bag extra yoyos are particularly spastic and glitchy but they do still work
so yes if that is the only reasoning for the melee speed cap, we no longer need it
zealous ridge
it may be said that the melee speed cap exists for additional reasons
as ben proved, it makes some melee weapons (namely true melee ones) extremely strong
queen delta
Then in that case, lets raise the melee speed cap instead of removing it entirely
zealous ridge
the thing about melee speed, is that it gets exponentially better the more melee speed you get, right? or am i looking at how it works wrong
because, when it gets down to individual frames, its like a doubling factor every time more melee speed is added
like, if you go from 2 frames to 1 frame, your dps is doubled
i may be oversimplifying
queen delta
Never thought of it that way
zealous ridge
im not sure if im entirely accurate, in any case
but i think the concept im trying to illustrate is there
melee speed gets exponentially more effective, as a general trend
that's what i remember the true melee meta being before the introduction of the melee speed cap
straight up removing the cap would mean that minimaxing for melee speed would come back, dialing back the melee speed cap some would make melee speed strats more viable, but potentially not broken
so yeah, i think you make a good argument, Yata
queen delta
@hearty yew sorry for ping, but can you confirm all of above about frames exponentially increasing melee speed?
zealous ridge
there was a video i watched by... i think it was leviathan
ah no, i think it was crabbar
hearty yew
confirm yes
Just try it in vanilla with baghnakhs
melee speed multiplies use time by a number less than 1
As that number approaches zero the frames used by the weapon decreases drastically. For example, with baghnakhs, if you can get it from 3 to 2 frames your DPS increases by 50%.
elder mist
something something death adren memes haha
lost agate
You mean the thing thats gonna go away? 
lost agate
I mean its still quite smth that it goes from average speed to "i can only see the sword in 2 positions cuz of how fast it swings"
zealous ridge
that's true, the clip has death adren on it
and because that's getting fixed in this next update, true melee will take a hit as well
hard crescent
Idk, even if true melee can be super broken i feel its justified
In the same way standing still and getting instant stealth strikes is
hard crescent
Its higher risk, higher reward
lost agate
Actually if you think about it
If you were to get enough melee speed to always have 1 frame usetimes
A weapon with 12 usetime basically gets 12 times the damage
A weapon with 21 like stellar striker... I think you get the idea
zealous ridge
it may mean a big rebalance to how true melee works
or even a change to melee's overall dps to compensate for the melee speed boosts being reverted/toned up
hard crescent
^
More work than its worth, maybe
Also again, a lot of on-hit effects would/already have a cap, so were talking the base damage of the weapon only
lost agate
Thats still 21 times the base dmg of the weapon
lost agate
As the extrene example i mentioned earlier
I mean, what does your accesories matter if anything dies without much struggle
lost agate
Getting close to enemies? You dont die instantly so thats not an excuse
hard crescent
No, but its harder than cough rogue
Or riskier
Ill look into exact numbers later, im curious
Also it goes without saying that even just raising the cap would be appreciated
void kelp
melee overall has enough bulk from armor alone to let you facetank a hit
and you only need to deal one hit to kill
hard crescent
Looking into it, most accessories give that give melee speed give 15%
With samurai bagde giving 20%
hard crescent
From what I gather, use time (for melee attacks anyway) goes as follows:
[base speed]/(1+[melee speed mods]/100)
correct me if im wrong
Rather:
[base speed]/(1+[melee speed mods]/100) - 1 because autoswing negates the last frame
Also, none of the post ML armors buff melee speed aside from demonshade at 20%
So unless you plan on fighting dog and the like with pre ML armor;
Or solar ig
Ok wow so none of the calamity armor actually surpasses the melee speed buffs of vanilla, so the biggest boost is 45% for the armor
Having accessories that boost melee speed gives a total of 129% (20+15+15+15+12+12+12+(all violent, 4*7))
Stellar strike (since its the weapon that was mentioned) has use time of 24. So
24/(1+(129/100)+(45/100))
24/(1+1.29+0.45)
24/2.74 = 8.75 -> 9
Or 8 because autoswing
So at the cost of no wings, no boots, very poor armor choices, you get 3 times more hits. Rogue gets 4x damage from stealth strikes and guaranteed crits, at the cost of “having to hook” as opposed to becoming a glass cannon
tired haven
Two corrections:
- there is ~100% melee speed stat cap right now
- pretty sure the melee speed affects swords differently, seemingly rounding up on each use time change. For example, legendary fetid baghnakhs go from 4 to 1 in only 101% melee speed (in vanilla btw, as tml for some reason removed possibility of 1 use time)
hard crescent
Trying to argue about removing/raising melee speed cap, but also i didnt see anything about that
Im not denying it, just didnt see it
tired haven
Yeah, that's only understandable
I'd also like to see it reworked into less restrictive but that's another topic kind of
versed tundra
@thorny cradle Here me out...
The permafrost lord is super useful in all of hardmode...
Because he's basically immortal.
That's the best NPC to put in the "dangerous" part of your base, where other NPCs would easily die from piercing boss attacks and invasions. It decreases the spawn-rate and provides a permanent shop to sell loot at.
wooden wedge
All of calamities NPCs are basically immortal
placid moth
permafrost lord
versed tundra
oh shit, that's the wrong game (https://www.realmeye.com/wiki/permafrost-lord)
versed tundra
so what? you put all your vulnerable NPCs far away from your crafting/staorage area, which can be right beside your arena, while the squishy NPCs chill-out 1k blocks underground in a spawn-free area linked by a teleporter.
wooden wedge
What makes him different than a normal town NPC except for health and attack
remote viper
just let the npcs die
versed tundra
no it's annoying
thorny cradle
I actually have him station at the base of My "Tower" and he does help defend at times.
versed tundra
If I got a dollar for every time I wanted to reforge, look-up the crafting uses of an item or buy a boss summoning item but couldn't because the NPC died offscreen, I'd be rich
wooden wedge
What
versed tundra
This is especially true in multiplayer where there might be AFK players in the spawn base, TBH
versed tundra
I'm done anyway, sorry
But I wonder if I can/should propose a change to fix NPC death by AFKing players. It's not really Calamity's fault anyway...
versed tundra
having ridiculously strong enemies and bosses does make it worse
thorny cradle
But yeah, Permafrost's utility is basically being your militia, being a dumping ground for duplicated weapons or loot or materials that I have 250+ of, or just for grinding Cryogen for some money. Not to mention being the grandfather you wish you had. But I feel like he could be expanded on.
elder mist
@lost agate @hollow shell @gusty geode rod shouldn't get nerfed and here's why: the reason it's 'must-have' is because calamity bosses, particularly in the postml stage, deal way more than chaos state's repeat damage (1/7th max hp). vanilla doesnt have this problem as with tank gear you can easily take less than 1/7th max hp from even ML's attacks bar deathray. Not to mention that vanilla is piss easy where the average player can probably nohit bosses far more easily than integrating rod into their available tools.
The fact that most late game calam bosses deal way more than 1/7th max hp to you in a single hit is why you guys view rod as a free escape, but don't get it twisted-- rod increasing the damage you take while in chaos state by 25% directly punishes you for missusing rod and rodding into another place. and if you are using rod multiple times, you will still have chaos state no matter how many times you rod, so you're still forced to dodge perfectly for those 6 seconds lest you get clapped by a boss dealing their high damage times 1.25x. Because chaos state makes it so that you take extra damage from the already-high damage that calam bosses inflict, it means that if you misplace it it's an ez way to get 3-shot or even 2-shot even with tank gear.
thank you for coming to my ted talk, have a nice day
void kelp
neat argument
elder mist
you gave a suggestion for it to be nerfed
lost agate
i did?
elder mist
remove recipe and defiled rate
lost agate
well thats not exactly a nerf to rod but eh
i was just more so tired of the whole convo
elder mist
¯_(ツ)_/¯
the way i see to stop convos is to just tell the other side why their idea is wrong and prove it
flat ermine
It was squid who submitted the suggestion
elder mist
yes im aware, its why i pinged
hard crescent
sorry for the continued spam, but i found the actual formula for use time (it wasnt appearing on mobile ig)
so with the example I had provided earlier, the result is actually:
(24*(1-15/100))*(1/(1+174/100)) = 7.44 = 7
fervent citrus
is removing RoD's recipe really a good idea?
hard crescent
no
versed tundra
I didn't know it had one! I wanna craft it ASAP next time I play with my friends
fervent citrus
well now you are informed :P
hard crescent
i dont see exactly how the calamity formula caps melee speed, but im assuming in this case its something like: (24*(1/1+50/100)) = 24*1/1.5 = 16
that seems a little harsh
fervent citrus
^
tired haven
Do you use melee stat from Stat Sheet? It shows relative to use time (50% as it takes 50% of the regular time to swing sword), and not actual melee speed stat
hard crescent
so 50% actually just means you can halve the use time?
tired haven
Yes
fervent citrus
thats harsh
hard crescent
still harsh, but better
fervent citrus
perhaps
hard crescent
reminder rogue has fairly easily achievable 4x damage, at the cost of standing still. Use homing weapons at a distance, its ~risk free
or less risker anyway
and im not even touching invincibility frames for bosses if you weapon summons on hit projectiles as true melee;
if the cap were up to 4x the speed, like how rogue has 4x damage, (so 25% of base use time i guess) id think it would be more fair. Especially for true melee only
lost agate
And youre still going with rogue
lost agate
Didnt we already told you rogue is getting some nerfs?
hard crescent
it doesnt have those nerfs yet
when it does fair enough
idk what the nerfs are gonna be so im just basing it off of the current game
hard crescent
idk whats changing
is it the base damage?
the stealth charge rate?
the double damage?
I would gladly compare melee to the post nerf rogue if youd tell me what post rogue nerf is gonna be
terse sundial
calm down
hard crescent
my bad, ill chill
placid moth
What does point 119 mean
tired haven
4x the speed is not reachable anyway, best you can do is about 250% iirc. Might as well remove cap but that is here for a reason
also holy hell, why so much words even after the nerf in progress
Do you mean changelog 119?
placid moth
yeah
hallow kraken
Why here
tired haven
Well, that's not exactly the place to discuss it. Better yet in #calamity-mod-talk
hallow kraken
Sir this is the suggestion drive-through
hard crescent
you can get about 174% from accessories, modifiers and armor @tired haven
oh plus 15% if its light, and buffs
for buffs I only really saw well fed and tipsy that increased melee speed, yharims stims seem to the the only calamity potion that boosts it
so ~220% *fuck actually 320% because the base is already 100%
hard crescent
Right
i forgot about adrenaline and rage
fuk
i can shut up since ive been talking about this for a day and a half
hallow kraken
I mean I don’t think a suggestion about the death rework would be very good considering it isn’t a thing yet
placid moth
it was in the changelogs
hallow kraken
Or at least not in a current version
tired haven
Indeed not worth it to suggest adren change before the one WIP comes to life
queen delta
I dont think BoC teleports that close in BR
green pumice
it likes to get snug but if you're running its usually fine
queen delta
It should be the same as the normal variant, and since the normal variant is balanced around mid-phm gear, using end-game gear against BoC should be even easier to dodge
Running is usually what gets me killed in rhe first place
keen geyser
maybe he's running too fast and getting hit that way
queen delta
I just use a good KB weapon against it and stand still
Only needing to move if he does get too close
tired haven
One thing to count for during BR brain is that while the distance is the same, your speed is not and thus you can easily bump in brain at full speed. Stay still and let it expose itself
queen delta
^
quartz hare
im about to end this suggestion's whole career
wooden wedge
@still cliff it was already suggested iirc
quartz hare
and?
wooden wedge
Wdym by and?
queen delta
Its still a valid suggestion
wooden wedge
Makes sense ig
teal ibex
i'm fairly certain its intentional that lunar fragment crafting is at an excessive loss
it's encouraging you to go out and farm them instead of just crafting the ones you want
karmic stone
Also by post ML you can already eat Deus that just pukes fragments
night cradle
it's also that majority of the time you want to create a weapon made of certain fragment you don't need the other fragments usually
And yeah, in addition to Deus the Aureus also exists for fragment farming
indigo fog
should i delete the suggestion then?
teal ibex
nah it's valid, just subjective
night cradle
^
teal ibex
i personally would suggest changing it to 2/3 rather than just 3 though
that way it's more lenient and might be better received
night cradle
ye
2 would be great since you'd still lose some fragments but just not as much to craft the others
in comparision to the current state, at least
toxic kettle
The game is designed to only give you a certain amount of fragments per Lunar Event and crafting more of one particular fragment than the game gave you comes with a punishment, which I think is reasonable
indigo fog
alright, ill edit it
bitter topaz
i'd say this isn't really neccessary
lost agate
aka a recipe group which has 2 of any fragment
wait a minute how do you make it not try to craft the fragment with the same type of fragments that way 
ok my idea fell flat on its face
green pumice
you can fight astrum deus and aureus to get fragments
sand umbra
Aureus only gives them post-ML
the only time I figure people will even remotely commonly use that fragment craft is pre-ML when you don't have the weaponry to consistently farm the Lunar Events or Deuces Wild
for the simple reason that post-ML you have the weaponry to consistently farm Deuces or Aureus and thus any previous method of obtaining the fragments is made mostly obsolete
@umbral tendon pretty sure it's been said like a dozen times in the past that Starcore's recipe will not be changed
also the spawn rate of Atlases spikes immensely if Dr. Looney Tunes is downed but Deuces Wild isn't
and it's specifically for that reason
lost agate
(the spawn method is also kind of a placeholder)
sand umbra
(wait so there's gonna be an even cooler method of spawning Deuces eventually?)
radiant meadow
@indigo fog the literal point of cross crafting fragments is that you lose more than it takes to craft
radiant meadow
I mean, you can keep it I guess
ruby cobalt
actually you should
sand umbra
this is why I made a custom star projectile for the Star Cannon in EE
and will probably try to promote that change to main in a bit here
lost agate
So basically this suggestion is make star cannon use its own projectile instead of a falling star with less dmg 
sand umbra
yes
because currently it shares the projectile which makes it unable to crit (without forcing the projectile to be ranged, of course) + fail entirely on platforms
lost agate
H
sand umbra
I can just pass you the EE Star Cannon stuff if you want, might make things easier
I already have this rarin' to go lmao
void kelp
ohh it’s the same fucky code in stars
radiant meadow
I could add the EE star cannon later maybe
karmic stone
Isn't there a config for this already or am I tripping
umbral mulch
I'mma have to give that a no please god
Pointlessly extending the fight isn't something I'm a fan of
pure dove
at least add an option in the mod settings (disabled by default)
sand umbra
Sentinels phase was removed from post-DoG fights with DoG to ease Cosmilite farming a little
gusty geode
Making it a toggle would probably be the better way to go
pure dove
yea
umbral mulch
Petition for an alternative to get luminite and cosmilite so you're not forced to fight the boss twice
hollow shell
There have been so many god damn alternate Luminite source suggestions
Apparently one is definitely gonna get implemented in the future
but not soon enough
pure dove
tbh it's not that hard to farm luminite post-ML
queen delta
Its just annoying cuz unless you have a mod that skips 1 minute waiting period, ML takes forever to farm
pure dove
I mean, there's other mods that do similar things. Or they can make it like fargo's mod and add another version of the celestial sigil (made out of just a celestial sigil) that instantly spawns it
keen geyser
celestial sigil plus 5 luminite bars
karmic stone
What's with Celestial Events/ML material suggs lately
hollow shell
¯_(ツ)_/¯
umbral mulch
They're a bitch to farm but as to why they just decided to show up no clue
I just want to be able to fight a boss once and get a full armor set
lost agate
coughs in ninja armor
umbral mulch
Having to fight a boss twice is just annoying
lost agate
(wait tf does this have to do with meld bars)
umbral mulch
A bit above I crossed out a thing with luminite and cosmolight
lost agate
Ah
umbral mulch
I forgot how to spell that entirely for asecond
Wow I'm doing a really good job
And providence for that matter
lost agate
You have to fight provi twice for accesories anyway
distant gyro
yes
chilly elk
is there a reason for some boss drops not apearing in treasure bags? such as providence with the wings and elysian aegis
indigo fog
wings and elysian aegis are direct drops because you have to kill providence in certain biomes to get them
otherwise, you could just open the bags in their biomes
which is cheating
chilly elk
I wouldnt presume it would be possible to basically have it drop two different types of treasure bags depending on the biome, as it can be annoying to have to fight it multiple times if you are in a big group of people and everyone needs a set
sand umbra
it'd be a bit of an annoyance to set up, but far from impossible
there's already a variable that dictates what biome she was spawned in, making unique bags drop is just a matter of tracking that variable
umbral mulch
It'd be wierd to not have provi bags stack though
zealous ridge
yeah, best way i see it working is that it drops client side for every player, with the same rules as the dropped treasure bag
seems the least exploitable...
but i dont know the viability of that on the dev side
queen delta
I'm pretty sure the elysian wings and aegis are already client sided like treasure bags
zealous ridge
queen delta
Every time I play multiplayer (and I play quite a lot of it), me and my teammates always got our own from her. If this isn't the case for you, report it as a bug
@chilly elk
hollow shell
It doesn't look like those Provvy drops are clientside
hollow shell
poke Ozza
keen geyser
they aren't clientside
i play mp all the time and we always just get one pair of wings
radiant meadow
okay, I think it just needed an , true
although, should they be clientside in normal mode?
since in normal mode, they only drop stuff once
hollow shell
I suppose that multiplayer-friendliness is indeed locked to Expert normally
radiant meadow
ye, I'll make it expert only
sand umbra
multiplayer-friendliness being locked to Expert only is dumb imo
radiant meadow
but lore will be available for everyone in all modes
sand umbra
but hey, what can you do
radiant meadow
well, I would like consistency
sand umbra
it'd be nice if boss drops were client-side for everyone in Normal too tbf
although that's really more an inherent issue with Terraria
zealous ridge
i prefer the consistency with vanilla's mechanics, for now at least
if cal or some other mod wants to do that, then that's fine
but i dont think we have to decide now
also, been looking at the organic/inorganic hit sound classifications
little discrepancy i saw was that most profaned enemies have inorganic hit sounds
except for providence and scorn eater
radiant meadow
providence is inorganic now I think
because she now uses a custom hitsound
instead of mothron sound
zealous ridge
because the custom one is listed as organic, as for the scorn eater
hollow shell
Yep, she takes additional damage from Magnum Rounds
zealous ridge
might just wanna fact check it, its really not that game breaking but interesting nonetheless
alrighty
just kind of found that listing odd, because the other profaned enemies are inorganic
hollow shell
Weirdly enough, right next to Eidolist
who doesn't have a custom hurtsound, its one is already defined non-explicitly
but it does have a custom death sound, so I assume someone just got confused somewhere
hallow kraken
sounds preeeeety specific
vestal eagle
Yep, I see that now. Sigh. My brain is slow.
radiant meadow
the drops
vestal eagle
I think it's too late at night for me to be trying to brain in general
radiant meadow
they are clientside in expert+ now
chilly elk
alright sounds goods, thanks
vestal eagle
I am on the fast track to getting banned for being legit too stupid to live.
zealous ridge
hey, its all good my friend
hollow shell
pff
zealous ridge
no harm done
void kelp
everyone makes mistakes
the fast track to being banned involves being a hell of a lot more stupid
zealous ridge
intentionally at that
hollow shell
It's fine
At least you responded and deleted it within at least 20 minutes of being pinged
which cannot be said for others.
void kelp
you actually responded to a ping which makes you better than a lot of people
vestal eagle
That said, I will just say that once I tried to get butterfly dust for the wings
And like ten times in a row, the 50% drop dust was overriden by gypsy powder
zealous ridge
vestal eagle
cursed RNG
zealous ridge
yeah, probably just cursed rng
zealous ridge
well, in other news, the hitsound stuff has got me more interested than i thought
hollow shell
I wouldn't necessarily consider Providence and Scorn Eater to be "organic"
They do feature wood but they're mostly rock and fire, with some crystal
zealous ridge
ye, that's what i was thinking
plus the other profaned enemies have inorganic hitsounds
zealous ridge
also, interesting thing i noticed as well, p1 polterghast is considered organic, while p3 polterghast is considered inorganic
hollow shell
You bust all the bone off of him :P
zealous ridge
hollow shell
A bit weird, that NPCHit7
Cuz it's used for Wyverns in vanilla but some inorganic enemies in Calamity
vestal eagle
Btw
Suggestion Don'ts: Example: Making the Rock an ingredient for an end-game item.
Reason: These items exist for the purpose of having no practical use. The Rock is a trophy for completing the Boss Rush, and SYNTAX ERROR is a memorial.
Fargo: Sorry, what was that? I was too busy making The Rock needed for Soul of Eternity.
hollow shell
ah yes thank you for reminding me
void kelp
different mod
hollow shell
Syntax Error got removed
vestal eagle
Just found that lulzy.
Yes yes I know I know
It's still funny to me in a 8:47 PM brain kind of way
hollow shell
Are there any other intentionally useless items in the game now, except for the Rock?
Cuz Lore items used to be in that list
tired haven
lul?
void kelp
bohldor’s existence?
chilly elk
what is SYNTAX ERROR?
swift bison
an item that did nothing and was removed
hollow shell
Nah Bohldohr getting suggestions is okay
swift bison
before that it summoned the lorde joke boss
am i allowed to repost one of my older suggestions if it got sent to the dev server but neither approved nor denied?
zealous ridge
there are certain lore items which still literally do nothing
chilly elk
was it obtained in a specific way or did it just exist in the files?
hollow shell
No, Seraph.
tired haven
Pretty sure most lores that do nothing are biome ones or combo a-la mechs/sentinels
swift bison
it was dropped from the bohldors in the temple @chilly elk
chilly elk
ah kk
hollow shell
After SCal was dead
I don't see any reason why no-effect lore items should be DISALLOWED from being suggested to have effects
chilly elk
there are a couple side boss ones that do nothing iirc the sentinals, profaned guardians and bumblebirb i believe have none, might have got one of those wrong
hollow shell
considering now it could be considered consistency with the others
tired haven
Well, they aren't disallowed iirc, just giving my 2 cents on what they are in practice
hollow shell
I'll specify that Don't to just The Rock, then
zealous ridge
there's also the vanity fish that you can really only sell for money
but i can see that as being like yknow
hollow shell
Some of those are getting usages in the future
zealous ridge
selling them is a use
hollow shell
Others are purely money tho
zealous ridge
and yeah, i was about to mention that i heard that some of them were getting uses
(excited for that)
cobalt rose
probably the biome lore items would be barred from having effects
since bosses that drop them also drop their own
civic pond
Not talking about this suggestion in specific but im seeing a pattern 
(Any suggestion related to crystyl crusher)
Reason: accidental destruction of house
tepid root
hmmm
lost agate
i still dont understand how people just left click by accident, unless they have like a small af mouse or smth
cobalt rose
opening chests
tired haven
Right click?
lost agate
right click yeah sorry
tired haven
And yeah, interacting with NPCs and chests takes that
lost agate
and why are you opening chests if youre mining
ashen warren
when you want to make your minions target something but accidentally make the world go boom
lost agate
or at least in this suggestion's context
tired haven
Well, holding the pickaxe is a bit more wide than mining
cobalt rose
some people have pickaxes in their hotbars, almost always
i can speak from experience
timber thicket
if you use veinminer
most people i know set their veinmine to their right click
so they hold both at the same time
tired haven
i genuinely consider those who keep pickaxe outside of hotbar somewhat evil and unnatural entities
timber thicket
also i sometime get small muscle spazms when i play for long periods
cobalt rose
i only do so during boss fights
timber thicket
so i accidentally may click
i always keep it period
bcuz you never know if youll need to dig a hole to escale some weird ghost or plant
civic pond
the worst feeling is when i hit magic mirror instead of my weapon 
cobalt rose
~~damn who keeps mirror in their hotbar ~~
lost agate
im doing that just now
civic pond
last slot iirc
hallow kraken
No who does that
grizzled stone
Yeah, slot 9
civic pond
Nonetheless i see a lot of suggestions about crystyl crusher funny house destruction
grizzled stone
Well, with the reach it has it's not house destruction, but rather village destruction.
civic pond
that just proves the point even further
teal ibex
@lost agate honestly i'd fully agree with you but some mods use scrolling as a major feature (magic storage) but don't prevent you from scrolling in your hotbar
so sometimes i just scroll onto an item i REALLY don't want to be using and then either right click in storage or left click outside by mistake and it's like cool yeah sick rad awesome thanks
cobalt rose
unless you use autopause
teal ibex
but besides that i also think it's not that big of a deal
grizzled stone
It's basically like mobile ads, one pixel away and the bad stuff arrives
hollow shell
I really think Crystyl needs to not have immediate and total house annihilation on right click, the primary interaction button
Pickaxe with a power worse than Dynamite
Have it be a charge-up or something
with like
a relatively loud sound cue
bbwwwwwrrrrRRRRRRRR
lost agate
If it charges up it would become absurdly slower
hollow shell
Not like, per shot
lost agate
So kind of like contagion?
hollow shell
Ye, or Laser Machine Gun or arguably Last Prism
tired haven
More like charged blaster cannon
hollow shell
ye mostly like that
lost agate
I see
hollow shell
(I have this reversed edited Deathray sound from a while back, readily available)
(Might work?)
tired haven
(obv the prism looped sound is the best)
lost agate
Not sure if making a charge requires some finnicky code
Since all i have seen that uses charge does it replacing the item with a projectile
Or well i think theres a way to do it in a simple way
hollow shell
Well,
could just make a Crystal Crusher projectile
lost agate
Ye
hollow shell
Could hold it vertically like a staff or maybe holding it at the base pointing it outwards, like you're gonna fire something out of the vertex
iunno how it looks currently, haven't used it
Is there even a visual?
lost agate
Its basically just pickaxe swing that shoots a projectile
lost agate
Ofc the projectile has dust and whatever
lost agate
gimme an animation where it puts the dents of the pick pointing backwards and i make a crystyl cannon staff
hollow shell
lost agate
Aight i'll do that in a sec
hollow shell
Heck yeah
keen geyser
that sounds kinda nice
grizzled stone
what would we be without you all
civic pond
lost agate
can someone remind me what charged weapons we have that arent lasers?
hollow shell
Daemon's Flame, iirc?
lost agate
aight thanks
hollow shell
np
Not sure how much help it'll be considering it still does fire even while spinning up
civic pond
A chargeable bow?
radiant meadow
what are you trying to do?
hollow shell
Also Nano Purge and T1000 but I assume those're the lasers you're talking about
civic pond
my dumbass was about to say charged laser cannon
hollow shell
Makin Crystyl Crusher's right-click charge up before firing its annihilation projectiles
so you don't obliterate your house accidentally
radiant meadow
the wind up can easily be removed from nano purge, t1000, daemon's flame, starmada, and the like
hollow shell
Why would you say this
radiant meadow
because you made it sound like the wind up was an issue
lost agate
uh no we need a wind up for smth else lol
zealous ridge
on a partially related note, I wonder if people consider t1000 viable anymore...
zealous ridge
aye me too
zealous ridge
Basically because they literally all do the same thing
civic pond
t1000 is more of a charge up from what i remember
while genesis and friends is just AAAAAAAA PEW PEW PEW PEW
zealous ridge
And yeah, genesis is a better overall upgrade line (or at least a more memorable one)
civic pond
my fps will never forget.
zealous ridge
Genesis and friends is just laser spam in various patterns
zealous ridge
Nano purge and friends is more in-line with what the laser machine gun does, but it’s less unique as a result
civic pond
Oh now i remember.
swift wadi
Pretty sure T1000 is actually like, amazing
civic pond
Amazing as it may be
zealous ridge
Really?
swift wadi
Yea iirc
civic pond
I almost never see it
zealous ridge
for p1 yharon, I could see it being somewhat effective
lost agate
T1000 is exactly the wind up i need
tired haven
T1000 charges up almost instantly
I don't recall it any amazing though
civic pond
p1 yharon?
tired haven
Not the worst either tbf
zealous ridge
glad to hear it’s viable from someone
civic pond
fear
zealous ridge
Nice, it’s not trash tier by any stretch, and I didn’t want to make the argument that it was
swift wadi
It's usable at least, and won't hinder you too much
swift wadi
Idk exact kill times or anything tho
zealous ridge
Yeah, we probably don’t need kill time stuff
lost agate
why the hell doesnt t1000 have a flavor text that says "taste the rainbow motherfucker"
zealous ridge
meme hahayes
Either way, my quarrel is with how little it differentiate itself from laser machine gun, or even nano purge for that matter
civic pond
I mean it is the direct upgrade