ye that's why it would be an identity problem to me if it wasn't consumed. that's the ranger style of things
#suggestions-discussion
teal ibex
placid moth
@signal grove yes but I think not everyone plays on mediumcore
signal grove
Well then it makes it pretty useless for people playing medium core
placid moth
yeah.
rapid pivot
While I see what you mean, imo, that's why I think it might be better to just, like..n ot have consumables.
teal ibex
idk i have to disagree
i don't use consumable rogue particularly often either but a: they're actually DECEPTIVELY good at certain things (refarming provi being one example) and b: i really enjoy the sort of visual chaos that emerges as you fight a boss with the archetype
i can certainly understand it's not everybody's cup of tea but why remove something when you could just give it more identity instead
rapid pivot
Because, in my opinion, it often means taking identity away.
as I said before; you can't really give something neat, powerful gimmicks if it's cheap; then it'd be OP compared to the price.
So, consumables usually don't have that.
teal ibex
so let's take a step back for a second
and, just as an example, reconsider the idea that i proposed before
if consumable rogue items returned to the player after dropping as an item on the ground, and did so... relatively quickly, you suddenly have a situation where crafting thousands is not necessary nor ideal for the player
now, given that information, you can instead bump the recipe up to be more expensive so the player could only reasonably craft 10 of said item off of one boss kill, or something along those lines, and they have the opportunity to make as many as they like
make less, they save resources and can spec into something else, make more, they don't have to worry about missing dps due to item downtime
it's easily possible to give things identity given some adjustments, but it certainly does require them to begin with. i think doing something like this would be far more beneficial than just having them stay in your inventory at all times, since at that point it's just ranger ammo that you can throw
i'm also like 60% sure i'm gonna suggest this later now too since i like the idea LOL
rapid pivot
tbh my idea was more 'since now it's not consumable, you can add neat effects/revamp them'
rapid pivot
might just suggest 'revamp Rogue consumables to make them more interesting'
teal ibex
sorry i misread that
that not as well because it was the idea i was arguing against i need glasses 
go for it, i'll probably suggest a more thought out version of my tirade moments ago at some point in the future, hopefully not around the same time 
teal ibex
just a heads up: tarragon darts are literally insane for re-killing providence, so don't sleep on that when you get to that point in a rogue playthrough
teal ibex
you should post the revive issue in bugs my guy
it doesn't sound like it's even intended to behave that way
it would also be good to check how it behaves with a hardcore character to see if it's the same
since if it doesn't autokill a hardcore character then there's a clear discrepancy
rapid pivot
I just finished a rogue playthrough.
Killed SCal and everything an hour ago, that's why I brought it up. :P
teal ibex
ye tarragon darts are SUCH a sleeper weapon for farming prov though
somebody told me and i didn't believe them but it's kind of absurd LOL
also smh grab scarlet and do bossrush quickly now
rapid pivot
never did the boss rush
tired haven
In fact, technically consumables should be harder hitting than non-consumables (that seemingly "project" the copy of themselves instead of being thrown as whole, deep_lore.txt). That's somewhat a case with Xeroc Pitchforks, still pretty solid ML pick from what I recall
(thorium manages similar problem with burnout debuff on non-consumables, but.. well, you probably see why this is not exactly favorite)
rapid pivot
hm
Rename Xeroc equipment to 'Shadowmeld' equipment, and recolor it to be darker.
❔ The name fits better and the equipment needs a name change anyway. Also; how on earth is bright red and purple armor fitting for the rogue class?
Thoughts?
queen sail
Devs are already handling renaming xeroc gear
Also xeroc was never intended to be rogue until rogue existed
manic pumice
xerock becomes a rouge weapon
ashen warren
doesn't fab already have a name in mind
isnt the next calamity update going to be an update to the rogue class in general? 
green pumice
i think thats hardcoded shit memes
radiant meadow
the next update finishes up almost all the rogue content
ashen warren
oh i havent
ah yes the microwave
DQ11 hasnt sucked my soul out just yet, still got my terraria knowledge
radiant meadow
yes, deus also gets some spicy new drops
tepid root
huh, ive seen other mods change health on the main menu 
steel raptor
@hearty yew I tested that Dragon Pow’s dragon itself reaches 50 tiles, but due to the flame dust projectiles that spawn (which don’t go that far anyways because they spawn as the dragon goes out and back in) it doesn’t count as true melee unless the flame dust spawns on enemy hits. However, since Dragon Pow is a Patreon item, this effect cannot be changed.
It is worth noting though that Dragon Pow is the closest Pre-Scal weapon to being true melee without being useless against her.
ashen warren
let us allow the true melee god to speak
tired haven
that's partially why I hissed on whip flails becoming true memee tbh, since they have actual range lots of the time. another partially goes for another solution for scal true memee though, yes
austere lion
what about summoning brain of cthuhlu or eater of worlds and hit them with the last mourning?
tired haven
By far too low dps
Last mourning produces about 60k worth of projectiles in perfect conditions (granted,with auric it may rise to 120k or so) and scal expects about 400k due to dr (100k x 4)
lost agate
So yeah
The whole point of true melee is the lack of range 
So using it in a long range battle....
tired haven
and since the contact time with scal barely exceeds 1% in p1 (basically only dashes), even maybe higher dps won't save short range options apart from icicle
lost agate
Mobile phase also kinda is a striking opportunity
But its like
Running directly into the beast mouth
radiant meadow
using true melee at all is kinda smelly
for a fight designed to not have true melee
tired haven
Doppel cal ironically shares the same treatment, heh
steel raptor
Lilac mentioned in the tier list video that true melee’s usability post-yharon can change when draedon and/or yharim get released (this was when the devs were talking about Murasama)
smoky wagon
I know murasama isnt being changed because it will be intended for use against draedon as far as i can tell
ashen warren
@torn bear yes read the pins in #calamity-mod-talk
left crest
this is a bruh sugg
terse rain
But like
left crest
first off, this is a boss sugg, second of all, this is already confirmed
terse rain
“Yahrim” would make a pretty cool boss
rugged mist
who is "yarhim"
left crest
yarhim
ashen warren
yar him
left crest
yar him!
rugged mist
is that a new pirate invasion boss?
left crest
yar har fiddle dee dee being a pirate is alright with me
hallow kraken
it’s him
terse rain
This really is a Yar him moment
terse rain
What about yar her, we need equality guy cmon
hollow shell
@torn bear Yes. That is coming in the future.
I'm gonna delete the suggestion now cuz boss suggestions aren't allowed and it is already planned
queen delta
Stop with the memeing
terse rain
Yar him is already a boss in the claamnity mod, though, I’m pretty sure the devs don’t want to rip off that mod too much
And ok
bitter topaz
anything more & you'll be getting a shiny new warn.
terse rain
I literally said I was done
hearty yew
@steel raptor dragon pow absolutely can be changed whenever I want. And the sparks always spawn, so yes it's not true melee. It is explicitly on the "flails which AREN'T true melee" list.
The sparks do almost no damage; I could remove them (or make them on-hit only) but changing the flail to be true melee wouldn't actually be a buff in any capacity. It would simply need its numbers nerfed massively to compensate for the insane boosts true melee gets.
As such, the net effect would be "this weapon is now unusable except with true melee specific builds". It would not become any stronger, just more situational. And I suppose the hordes of true melee purists/enthusiasts would be satisfied, but that's not really helpful for the game.
TL;DR Dragon Pow is functionally a true melee weapon and changing it to be true melee in technicality would require and wind up being a direct nerf.
Not worth doing.
hearty yew
@signal grove that... that's a bug, right? lol
queen delta
Yeah, pretty sure
Cuz it shows mana extenders but dont think I've ever seen health extenders
steel raptor
I wasn't asking to make Dragon Pow a true melee weapon; I was only making a comparison to a weapon that functions like a true melee weapon even though it isn't. After hearing other peoples' views on the suggestion of mine, it seems like true melee is most likely going be a viable subclass up to draedon (which is confirmed to be post-yharon but pre-scal) and it is likely the calamity devs' intention for it to be useless for scal and yharim. Thus, a true melee playthrough is nearly unachievable to this day (and likely for the future of the mod).
lost agate
Who said it wouldnt work on yharim
Also, thats the niche of sub class run, they dont always work
For example, sentry only runs
As far as it concerns me theres no sentries in the first third of the game
Or rocket launcher only run
keen geyser
there're the old ones army sentries
grizzled stone
There's nothing before that though
keen geyser
true
keen geyser
you get free defender medals
if you find the tavernkeep
you get 5 free medals which is enough to buy a sentry
lost agate
Which only works on the event
lost agate
I always failed the first tier with only the sentries
But ig launcher run is a better example
keen geyser
ye
ashen warren
oke
terse sundial
support for it is coming next update
grim tusk
does Calamity has compativility with the Consolaria mod?
like rev+ changes to their enemies and bosses?
hollow shell
No, Calamity only has compatibility with Thorium in that department.
@grim tusk You're gonna need more description than that. And reasoning
grim tusk
Like buffing their bosses in rev+, Ocram in expert has around 45k health
hollow shell
Yeah, include stuff like that in your suggestion. Edit it.
keen geyser
that suggestion is a suggestion for the sake of suggesting stuff
hollow shell
Answer the big "why"
grim tusk
done
hollow shell
god damn it
topaz bramble
wtf is the Consolaria mod????
hollow shell
You're giving good details in this channel
You can include those details in your post
topaz bramble
also what reason would there be to have compatibility with a mod like that?
hollow shell
You've got a lil bit of reasoning in there with the Ocram one but it'd be good to articulate it in it's own section
A new line, outside of parenthesis
grim tusk
ok
hollow shell
"Why: "
grim tusk
Ill take down the suggestion while I think
hollow shell
Alright
green pumice
how is this a problem?
hollow shell
Limited buff slots
wooden wedge
limited buff slots are horrid
swift wadi
By the time you get to moon lord will you reasonably have near 22 buffs though?
hollow shell
It's 22
wooden wedge
and buffs override other buffs too
green pumice
is it that big of a problem though
night cradle
would you really need 20 buffs for Moon Lord though
wooden wedge
do you want your +25% hp buff being overridden by -20 hp/s
night cradle
(Before anyone says -- yes, summons take buff slots
but I don't think people use more than 2 types at least)
hollow shell
I dunno what's up with the opposition
Suggestion sounds pretty reasonable and it wouldn't be too hard to do
Moon Lord already has a Boss Zen equivalent which doesn't use a buff slot
(apparently)
(It's not on the wiki but I
keen geyser
it's not necessary, but it's a valid suggestion
hollow shell
am gonna assume he ain't pulling it out of nowhere)
night cradle
I just was unsure about the non-buff zen actually working, since I saw the cases where it wasn't true
albeit on another thought, yeah, the suggestions is pretty valid and has a good reasoning
tired haven
Uhhh, I'm not sure where that argument comes from, actually
Vanilla ML absolutely does let enemies spawn, and calamity only restricts spawns once as boss zen iirc
hollow shell
Is it just because ML takes up a lot of NPC slots?
tired haven
Maybe
night cradle
probably
hollow shell
@hexed ore Where'd you hear that ML already blocks spawns?
tired haven
4-7 slots, not too much but more than usual
lost agate
Im pretty sure some debuffs dont take slots anymore
Dont remember if only for enemies or for players also
hollow shell
I don't know if 4-7 slots is correct considering Yharon takes up like
50
Calamitas Clone takes up 14
hollow shell
He's made up of 4-7 NPCs (each residing eye, the popped out eyes, the core), but each of them can take up a lot of slots
hollow shell
pardon
lost agate
Ducks measuring system
tired haven
Duck machine (the tech to abuse npc cap)
hollow shell
Lemme see if I can find this info in vanilla source
... okay each socket takes up 6 and the core also takes up 6
so 24 slots
Released True Eyes don't take up any slots (prolly to ensure they spawn correctly)
hollow shell
That is odd
Maybe I'm just wrong 🤷♀️
about the last bit
the 24 slots thing ain't wrong
cuz
it's written right here
tired haven
What would 24 slots mean? Are these similar to 4-22 (?) slots that different biomes provide for max spawns?
Or that's another part?
sand umbra
Released True Eyes don't take up any slots
what
hollow shell
They don't
sand umbra
...doesn't every enemy in the game take 1 slot by default
hollow shell
I assumed it was so they could always spawn correctly but now I dunno
sand umbra
duck memes still work on them so like
sonic forge
Anyone else think they should add a crafting tree to the "Crimson Crusher Blade"?
tired haven
how about we don't try to get the terraria spaghetti and instead consider that enemies do spawn during ML in vanilla so the suggestion reasoning requires verification
keen geyser
i could test rn
hollow shell
wdym Nether?
radiant meadow
fairly sure blue slimes can spawn during the moon lord fight
sonic forge
Like how the ark of the ancients has an upgrade tree, they could do smth similar with the crimson crusher.
afk
hollow shell
If you can provide a good enough reasoning for why melee needs more swords (good luck), then go ahead
tired haven
There is a timestamp of wyvern appearing in middle of the fight
||https://youtu.be/RIf5_KzJ3F4?t=798||
sonic forge
Rover currently i dont haave one just feel like there's wasted potential cause its such a good prehardmode weapon even inflicting the ichor debuff IN PRE HARDMODE thats huge
hollow shell
Yeah it's a really good true melee weapon in Pre-Hardmode
Dunno why that'd indicate it could have upgrades
I mean, maybe
Again if you can think of some good reasoning, you can suggest it
radiant meadow
crusher blades could be added to an existing recipe maybe?
like catastrophe claymore
hollow shell
shrenk the sword
tired haven
There are tons of weps that feature unique characteristics but are not materials (e.g. legendary weapons, boss drops, etc.)
imho some dead ends doesn't really hurt
green pumice
do we need more swords
keen geyser
no pls
umbral mulch
No more
sand umbra
tbf the amount of swords that only practically exist for crafting materials is already too high
tired haven
Just amount of swords of all kinds
sand umbra
yeah that too
hollow shell
That's a strange reason...
keen geyser
doesn't really make any sense
terse sundial
Strange yet valid suggestion
hollow shell
I wouldn't really say it's valid, because the reasoning is... pretty arbitrary?
If Cobalt Sword gets better DPS than Muramasa, isn't that enough?
Why buff its swing speed and nerf its damage just to make it slightly more similar?
vague laurel
hollow shell
Yes, I know
terse sundial
That's not really helping your suggestion
left crest
that changes nothing
swift wadi
Yes it looks like it, but it has no relation
left crest
just because they have similar inspiration means they're related
terse sundial
It's more of, why does it need a buff/does it really need a buff?
left crest
why mess with vanilla unless you have a reason to
keen geyser
that'd be an update just for the sake of resemblance
vague laurel
quality of life reasons really
swift wadi
Calamity adds and upgraded Muramasa in a way, The Murasama
left crest
that's not qol
swift wadi
^
terse sundial
I hate to be that person but, does anyone actually use the cobalt sword for very long?
left crest
who would even use the cobalt word anyway
vague laurel
I tried
radiant meadow
someone new to Terraria might
hollow shell
That is not Quality of Life
not even close
and I'm getting kinda tired of people using that as a catch-all
keen geyser
QoL would be like adding a summon count meter
hollow shell
Quality of Life is NPCs stepping out of the way of chests when you try to use them
sand umbra
that'd honestly be enough of a buff to Cobalt Sword to make it Calamity-viable iirc
vague laurel
I guess I meant to say something along the lines of "a small change that makes the game a tiny bit better"
sand umbra
if only as a very low-tier wep
cobalt rose
quality of life is npcs not standing in front of each other for 20 minutes
vague laurel
just use a fargos bug net from mutant mod to move them
its what I do in desperate situations
pocket the mechanic
gusty geode
Came in a little late
But there could actually be a connection between the Muramasa and Cobalt Sword
When you remember Muramasa comes from the same place as the Cobalt Shield
smoky wagon
Cobalt sword’s existence is to be made into crystal blade lol
vague laurel
which drops like candy either way from the crawlers
smoky wagon
Its a 3.33% drop from an enemy i have seen like twice in all my playthroughs
Crafting it is more practical
vague laurel
ive been grinding for the rod of discord and get 2 or 3 every 10 mins
only water candle and battle pot
smoky wagon
Honestly as nice as it would be to make all those bland vanilla weapons interesting there is such a large amount of them to tackle
If it were to ever happen better to do it after more important things
hollow shell
Hopefully 1.4 will do that
because trying to modify vanilla weapon behavior would be oof for us to try to do
Stats are one thing.
sand umbra
it's actually not too terribly difficult...well, programming-wise, anyway
vague laurel
every single time I play early HM in calamity, all my weapons are calamity, no vanilla ones that seem worth painfully using over better ones
vague laurel
There is a difference between creative ideas and changing a number on some weapons
one uses less resources
hollow shell
Indeed
sand umbra
see, I'm good at it because it's basically my main focus past making Hallow relevant and I don't really have a ton else to do
but the Calamity devs, with how much they've got on their plate? it just ain't happenin'
radiant meadow
Is that a challenge?
gusty geode
I'm still not sure focusing on the "more important" stuff first is a good idea
Conversation kinda drifted away last time cuz I mentioned Summoner
But the point I wanted to make is that often the devs throw up a passable framework first, then leave it as such and move on to something else with the intent of polishing it later
sand umbra
I do kinda see your point, and I ain't gonna deny that's what it feels like sometimes
but see, that's why the recent updates have made me so happy
because that stuff is being actively expanded upon now
is it overdue? very long-so, in some cases
but hey, better late than never 
gusty geode
Yeah, it's nice they're starting to get to filling a few of the gaps
Golden opportunity to have the Draedon update also be the Acid Rain expansion because Draedon had a huge part in making the Sulphur Sea
radiant meadow
gap filling is what I do
gusty geode
I also believe I heard something about a Crags expansion?
gusty geode
Huge eye was cool
And considering stuff like all the circle things in the Sunken Sea the issues it caused may not be a problem anymore
swift wadi
Suggestion: Make it so Plaguebringer Goliath never spawns dashing
This is a very annoying occurrence for new players and even veterans I feel, PBG will spawn with the first they do being dashing at the player, problem is she can spawn so close that this is almost a guaranteed hit. This is frustrating to go against, even if you know it can happen sometimes it hits you anyway, and I can see a new player using the Abombination that they just farmed for, time to see a new boss and have an exciting first fight right? Nope, hit immediately by a dash and in their utter confusion they can't dodge the next two, which ends the fight right there, is there a reason for her to be able to do this? And while I understand that 99% of the community doesn't no hit so this isn't a great point, I still would like to mention how frustrating this was to me when I was no hitting, start recording, chug pots, die instantly, repeat.
hollow shell
hollow shell
Funny how it's relatively recent
considering I don't think I've seen that suggestion ever before
swift wadi
Yeah, guess I missed that one lol
Well I just did my no-hit and it got the thought in my mind
hollow shell
@snow copper That's in the Don'ts doc
No vanilla weapons will be changed or give alternates to be rogue-class
keen geyser
.
snow copper
I was gonna read that lol
hollow shell
(I personally agree with you, Vampire Knives should not be melee weapons,
but I didn't create the Don't)
keen geyser
same
sand umbra
(I also agree that there are a lot of weapons which tbf would in fact be better suited for rogue)
(but alas, I don't make the rules)
snow copper
still is it possible for it to be crafted into a rouge item?
keen geyser
no, sadly
snow copper
can they make an off-brand vampire knifes?
keen geyser
they already exist
snow copper
(...)
smoky wagon
I feel like a mod to add rogue version of vanilla weapons could be a seperate thing someone makes
hollow shell
Yeah
smoky wagon
Doesnt seem too hard
swift wadi
From Plantera to Yharon... I feel like there should be an upgrade in there somewhere
queen sail
No idea why some throwing weapons got labelled as melee and the only logic i can think of that went through yeetlogic’s heads were “you hold it so it’s a melee weapon”
swift wadi
But, specific item suggestions are not allowed
radiant meadow
vampire knives and scourge of the corruptor existed long before throwing
and changing them to throwing would kill class theming
daybreak being throwing rather than melee would definitely kill class theming
smoky wagon
Jaws of oblivion are kinda like vampire knives
snow copper
but isn't throwing mobile melee weapons?
smoky wagon
In terms of the projectiles
sand umbra
I mean, what you can do with Scourge and Daybreak is
make them actual spears
Vamp Knives though you can't really make melee proper without using some stretched logic (the idea I had was having the player swing the fan itself that appears to house the knives, but even that's a bit of a longshot as the knives and their lifesteal are really the main reason the weapon isn't garbage)
raven moth
why does the Starcore (the summon for Astrum Deus) require Astral Bars, when you can't mine Astral Ore until you defeat Astrum Deus?
cloud surge
Because you spawn it by killing 3 atlases first
raven moth
ohhhhh
queen sail
I go now :omw:
raven moth
didn't read, sorry
hollow shell
@supple lodge Why would you use only Calamity armors
and why is that a valid reasoning
umbral mulch
Victide is fine enough until aerospec anyway
I can tell you because that's precisely what I do
hollow shell
I agree Calamity could use more armors but I don't think that's the kinda reason you wanna provide
supple lodge
I mean you kinda are restricted to Calamity armors if you’re playing Rogue
hollow shell
Are you forgetting Gladiator and Obsidian?
umbral mulch
Was about to say gladiator is one of the better prehardmode rogue sets in general
And you can get it if you're the proud owner of a slime staff
distant gyro
some people use titameme for defense as a rogue (idk why)
hollow shell
What is titameme
radiant meadow
titanium
distant gyro
titanium armor
radiant meadow
probably melee helm
distant gyro
aka shadow dodge central
sand umbra
shadow bruhjaja
hollow shell
Not really in the tier range we're talkin about
Though I guess it's relevant to his
bigger claim
distant gyro
I was more or less referring to
I mean you kinda are restricted to Calamity armors if you’re playing Rogue
although ngl I do wish obsidian armor could have evil flesh slapped on it so we don't have 4 pre-boss armor options for rogue
hollow shell
Obsidian's only pre-boss by technicality
Its pickaxe power req is Nightmare/Deathbringer
cobalt rose
reaver shark
sand umbra
that's a weird way to spell explosives solve everything
hollow shell
hellstone armor is pre-boss by technicality
sand umbra
daily reminder that Obsidian is classified as pre-boss for nohits yet Hellstone is not for some bizarre reasoning I can't comprehend
umbral mulch
Nohitting has a lot of rules I can't comprehend but here we are
sand umbra
but like. the class setups page even recommends you Obsidian armor and Raider's Talisman for rogue pre-boss
distant gyro
you can bomb obby but not helly
sand umbra
both of these things require obsidian
umbral mulch
How is fishing considered sequence breaking
distant gyro
what baffles me more is the intended progression of meteorites
you can literally mine it with gold pick
sand umbra
meteorite is in its own little dreamland of unicorns and rainbows
not the Hallow, that's different and this is my daily affirmation that Pearlwood sucks and I will make it not suck
hollow shell
We could prolly add something to Pearlwood armor like we did with some other armors
umbral mulch
You'll never succeed with that because if it wasn't then it'd be the easiest upgrade in existence
hollow shell
Make it could just make you really fucking fast
queen delta
Perhaps pearlwood leaves a trail of rainbows similar to fargo’s pearlwood enchant
sand umbra
okay but like Pearlwood shouldn't suck as bad as it does
hollow shell
We've so far restricted ourselves to stat changes
umbral mulch
It's wood
hollow shell
and in two cases, granting lava immunity
sand umbra
it's the only Hardmode-locked wood
queen delta
Pearlwood should be at best the same tier as molten armor
sand umbra
yet most pre-Hardmode gear performs better
I'm not saying it should be massively viable by any means but like
Pearlwood is actually trash even given that fact
hollow shell
(thomas is getting bullied again)
sand umbra
(you know it)
distant gyro
probably
sand umbra
(I don't need this abuse)
umbral mulch
What are these names
queen delta
Since pearlwood is so easy to get, it shouldnt be on par with the rest of the hardmode armors
hollow shell
s'why it'd be nice if Pearlwood didn't have the defense or combat abilities of the more hard to obtain armors
but should still be comparable in terms of general ability
yeah
sand umbra
I understand that
hollow shell
speed or some other exploratory stat would be good.
sand umbra
but like Pearlwood vs. anything else isn't even a contest
queen delta
Somewhere on aerialite armor/hellstone armor tier
umbral mulch
Maybe make it just mine faster like the prehardmode ore armors
sand umbra
I'd be cool with it being a more exploratory armor set
hollow shell
I don't think it should be as strong as Statigel in any capacity
sand umbra
something to help with diving deep into the treacherous new Underground Hallow and Corruption/Crimson
hollow shell
It's a higher tier but so much easier to obtain
sand umbra
that's what I can see Pearlwood stuff being best for
hollow shell
Maybe more iframes, like Fabsol's Vodka 🤔
distant gyro
Considering Pearlwood wouldn't have any cool effects
umbral mulch
Pearlwood makes you mine 70% faster so you don't waste so much time trying to dig
Buffed in the most meaningless way possible
hollow shell
That's the ore armors' job
umbral mulch
Ye but this time it's gated by hardmode and 25% better than gold
Doesn't help a bunch since you'll die the moment anything finds you
distant gyro
pearlwood is in an awkward position
some people need to make actual efforts to get pearlwood
(finding a hallow, making a house for steampunk in hallow, clentaminate a forest, chop)
sand umbra
consider that it's all-too-possible for the Hallow to be overwritten by something else or otherwise fail to gen at surface level for some reason or another
(Astral Infection in particular is extremely guilty of this in a fair chunk of my playthroughs)
wide flicker
Maybe make pearlwood an early hm rouge set that you can optionally use
sand umbra
personally I was thinking maybe something borrowing from the theme of the various Light/Dark Shard weps?
distant gyro
rouge that would mean that pearlwood armor has to be extra complicated
sand umbra
also byeah no complicated Pearlwood pls
distant gyro
considering if the armor is intended (from this discussion) to be"worse than statigel", why would anyone go for it
cloud surge
imagine using pearlwood gear
sand umbra
well yes, that's the point of the discussion
distant gyro
Well, imagine acknowledging the existence of pearlwood at all
sand umbra
we're determining how to best improve Pearlwood armor while still keeping it around the intended tier
(and really, Pearlwood gear as a whole, because it all sucks ass compared to options obtainable much earlier)
wide flicker
Honestly, I feel like rouge is missing armor for early hard mode until Daedalus gear and ravaged gear
cloud surge
does it even have a tier? its only obtainable in hardmode but doesnt match up to anything there
distant gyro
It's Hardmode.
sand umbra
very early Hardmode
distant gyro
If it's easy to get or pain to get is dependent on luck
By accessibility it's pre-cobalt/palladium
cloud surge
maybe boost its defense and give it increase to damage on weapons made from hallowed materials?
or weapons relating to the hallow
wide flicker
That would be a bit complex to code
sand umbra
no it wouldn't
not in the slightest
I could program it in 3 minutes and be done testing it in 10
hollow shell
We've already got the specific-weapon buffing from the Cirrus drinks
wide flicker
hollow shell
Fire and Nature-themed weapons
sand umbra
that too
hollow shell
just gotta make a list of hallow weapons
wide flicker
Aye fair enough
sand umbra
cloud surge
thats not a very wide variety, and noone uses those items either
sand umbra
which is why you'd mildly buff those items to be relevant for the start of Hardmode
distant gyro
how many hallowed items of that tier are viable again
literally crystal serpent and crystal serpent
cloud surge
biome mimic stuff
sand umbra
Crystal Serpent and only Crystal Serpent.
Just Crystal Serpent.
distant gyro
stormbow is disqualified for not being hallowed enough
sand umbra
Hallowed Mimics are wack
cloud surge
" +x% damage to crystal serpent"
distant gyro
flying knife is literally not viable
sand umbra
Crystal Vile Shard becomes Hell Burst 2 seconds later
distant gyro
celestial claymore shares its drop pools with all the other biome mimic variants
cloud surge
any weapon made out of soul of light, pixie dust, and unicorn horns?
sand umbra
nothing relevant, I can tell you that much
distant gyro
chik is not relevant either
sand umbra
Chik is a joke
cloud surge
chik is outclassed by amarok as soon as its available
sand umbra
Cascade easily does better until Hel-Fire/Amarok
distant gyro
tl;dr just crystal serpent
sand umbra
Just Crystal Serpent.
cloud surge
light gods brilliance 
terse rain
And stprmbow doesn’t count kek
cloud surge
sky fracture
hollow idol
is everglade still a crimson exclusive item (ignoring evil island)
cloud surge
rainbow rod
distant gyro
sky fracture is sky themed
tepid root
holy arrows
cloud surge
meteor staf
terse rain
Rainbow rod and dao of pow are viable all of a sudden?
sand umbra
Holy Arrows--
distant gyro
everglade doesn't use a recipe group
distant gyro
meteor staff is meteor themed
sand umbra
Holy Arrows are retarded though
tepid root
cloud surge
but it uses soul of light and pixie dust
distant gyro
dao of pow belongs to the light/dark weapon group
hallow kraken
If you don’t include crystal vile shard
tepid root
make them drop even more stars from the sky
distant gyro
why would anyone use pearlwood armor with conse water
terse rain
Crystal storm?
cloud surge
axe of purity
sand umbra
especially when Daedalus is one-size-fits-all and right there for the taking
distant gyro
axe of purity is themed behind purity
cloud surge
crystal blade
distant gyro
crystal storm is ok yea
tepid root
what if pearlwood buffs both daedalus and holy arrows
distant gyro
case in point: there isn't enough "hallowed" weapons for pearlwood armor buffing to be worthwhile
I don't want to go all day about this
tepid root
pretty sure thats an oversight that was already reported in #bugs-read-pins ?
hollow shell
@dim palm You can submit those in the art server
hollow shell
Yes
dim palm
Oh neat
hollow shell
dim palm
Thank you
hollow shell
np
(preferably put them in 2x2 pixel ratio when you submit, instead of 4x4 or whatever you have them in now)
dim palm
Yeah
The original ones I made were 2x2, I just increased the size to make them more visible
I'm not even really suggesting the sprites I made are used, I just really want more boss masks
hollow shell
Those sprites look aight
The reason why the masks aren't in is because there aren't any sprites for them
If mask sprites get submitted, the masks get added
swift wadi
Imagine ripping one of the skulls off of ravager and putting it on your head
It's honestly a perfect image for the mask of the boss, he's supposed to be brutal isn't he?
dim palm
True
I'm sure yharim would be shaking in his boots seeing someone approaching with the head of the ravager on their cute face
radiant meadow
brimmy looks kinda flat
swift wadi
^ true
dim palm
Yeah
I wish I was able to make it tilted, but I don't really know how the side of the void looks
Same with polterghast
void kelp
I love that birb mask; I hope it gets in
swift wadi
^
swift wadi
Yea
civic pond
nah not this time
the original owner who made siren just wanted it removed for their own mod
...or something along those lines
man i hope these masks make it
swift wadi
What the
void kelp
aye, it’s not because she’s ugly
It’s because Nahlyn is the intellectual property of someone else
dim palm
I mean, to be fair, when you're compared to the leviathan, basically anything becomes ugly
radiant meadow
you could make the mask in the style of anahita and it would probably get in with the resprite
hollow idol
someone DID make sprites for most of the bosses that don't have masks
and sheets too
they got buried as hell tho
radiant meadow
it was probably before the sprite voting channel was added
hollow idol
ye
radiant meadow
so resprites tended to get buried
wooden wedge
ok kinda late
but I'm watching a video on ML and he doesn't prevent natural spawns
I think I got the timestamp in there but just in case it's at 16 minutes in
grim tusk
About the third time I fought expert ML on Xbox I got killed by a harpy. lul
wide flicker
I have definitely seen wyverns in the ML fight
keen geyser
man i love when a suggestion is allowed to just slide in there with no criticism
hollow shell
I will admit it's a nice "oh fuck" moment when you see 11 boss awoken messages at once
keen geyser
yeah
it freaked my friend out
he thought i was going insane summoning that many astrum deus' at once for his first time ever fighting them
ashen warren
we almost shit our pants because we didnt know of the second spawn condition, always thought calamity only has spawner bosses
didnt help that once we all died he went like double the map height out of bounds and then went back down when we respawned
swift wadi
Oh but I loved that moment though!
Killing atlases, just knowing that they spawned a boss called "Astrum Deus", kill the third one and boom, chat fills up and 11 worms from all directions are coming at me on my map
That was pure panic, I loved it
ashen warren
yeah although we were scared shitless we laughed our asses off once we got him down
radiant meadow
aren't the has awoken messages automatic by Terraria?
which is why Steampunker has awoken!
radiant meadow
likewise the has been defeated message for any boss npc
frank stratus
I assume the summon message is hard-coded but that's a pure guess
radiant meadow
afaik, you can only change the name used in the defeat message
and probably the summon message
keen geyser
that's sad, either way. It'd probably be better to just make it a singular Astrum Deys
Deus*
instead of 11
ashen warren
wouldnt that require a full boss redesign tho
ashen warren
id say just keep the astrum deus summon message to a single one
radiant meadow
it would be better for sure, I agree
keen geyser
not make it broadcast 11 times
radiant meadow
I'm just not sure it can be done
hollow idol
cant the small ones just be downgraded to non bosses internally
keen geyser
that's what i was thinking
keen geyser
But why do they have the awoken message in that case?
radiant meadow
because it's a forced spawn
hollow idol
do the profaned guardians have 3 spawn messages at once, I forgot
radiant meadow
case in point, Steampunker has awoken
all 3 donuts are considered bosses
so they have 3 spawn and 3 defeat messages
and all 3 drop the pool of hearts
radiant meadow
vanilla code diving 
honestly, watch it be something hardcoded
the defeat messages arne't the issue
keen geyser
it's the spawn messages
outer reef
I remember spawns are hard coded if they use boss summon other than npc summon.
hollow idol
does CV automatically start with dark energies
keen geyser
yes, untargetable ones
radiant meadow
the dark energies use NPC.NewNPC
CV and the other sentinels use NPC.SpawnOnPlayer
so I guess SpawnOnPlayer forces a message?
but NewNPC does not
radiant meadow
wdym?
frank stratus
Like, can they exist by themselves or do they need cv to be there and as soon as cv despawns or disappears the dark energies do so too
radiant meadow
they can exist themselves
but that's only possible with cheat sheet or ghastly visage meming
frank stratus
royal cedar
So theoretically that method could be used for the mini astrum deus'?
lost agate
Hardcoded shit is ggghgggghhg
green pumice
thanks red
hallow kraken
Correct me if I’m wrong, but wouldn’t it be grammatically incorrect to say “astrum deus have awoken” since “have” refers to a plural number of objects which wouldn’t work with “deus” which is a singular Latin word?
So that would be “the star god have awoken”
tepid root
whats the plural of deus
hallow kraken
dei
but then there’s weird stuff with noun-adjective pairs
now I’m debating to myself whether “star” is an adjective or not since it describes what this “astrum deus” is the god of
oh god I’m confused now
tired haven
Technically, if it wasn't an adjective, the phrase would be "the god of stars"?
literature language can easily disregard that though lol
Or I completely missed the point...
hallow kraken
Wait yes I’ve got it
“astrum” cannot be an adjective to “deus” because “astrum” is neuter and “deus” is masculine
so it’s a noun
queen sail
And it would need a The preceding the whole thing to sound right tbh
tepid root
what
hallow kraken
so the correct phrase, if I were to use every single brain cell in my body, would be “astrum dei have awoken”, unless I’m stupid and it’s actually “astre dei have awoken”, “astre” being plural of “astrum”
I’m now screaming as I am too unintelligent to tell
Why am I getting so critical about a 4 letter phrase in a video game’s mod
hallow kraken
Alright, finally got it, it’s astrum dei
ashen warren
"you hear boss music echoing from the distance" if you like breaking 4th walls
hollow saffron
breaking 4th walls is what dog does for a living
keen geyser
isn't it supposed to not reveal what boss is approaching
hollow saffron
well you can already deduce what boss is coming pretty easily
based on the biome/time
potent veldt
To be fair, the mechs all have their own messages already
And Cal could be "Something false is watching you..." or something
hollow saffron
^^^^^
you can already deduce what boss is coming, so its not like making the message more obvious would really do anything
or you could just be like "Your destructive actions on the elements is drawing in chaotic energy!" from lycanites mobs
paper torrent
I feel like it would add something like immersion or something.
versed mica
Multiplayer desync bugs are being fixed as much as possible already, it’s not really calam’s fault that this occurs
queen delta
Also suggestions to fix bugs don't belong in #suggestions-voting
Go to #bugs-read-pins
versed mica
Is that in the pins already btw?
queen delta
I believe not
versed mica
@subtle burrow
queen delta
@hollow shell Can you add "Suggesting bugs to be fixed" in the Suggestions Don'ts doc since they belong in #bugs-read-pins
hollow saffron
aw man i was gonna suggest that
subtle burrow
I completely overlooked that sorry
versed mica
lost agate
Late but the plural of deus is deuces iirc ngl tbh imo
Btw someone suggested changing something is approaching
But it was shot down since the message is supposed to have ambiguety for surprise
Btw comparing it to mechs message isnt really fair since those appears always, not only on death mode
tired haven
ngl trying to figure which boss is about to arrive and eat me is quite engaging experience
(and for repeated offenses of one known boss the boss name isn't that relevant anyway)
lost agate
Also theres another difference
None of the mechs, eoc, etc are biome restricted
So having such a dramatic/specific message then nothing happens because youre out of biome is eh
Just imagine
"A plagued robot is about to bring impending doom to this land" or whatever
Nothing happens
And youre there all like 
So theres your inmersion lmao
hollow shell
Sure
hollow shell
Was referring to Yata, did it now
lost agate
Oh ok
hollow shell
(sorry coulda been clearer)
umbral mulch
Would it be unreasonable to suggest that the provi lore item doesn't put particle effects on all your weapons
Makes you lag a lot when using certain weapons
sand umbra
Deuces Wild official question mark? 
lost agate
@umbral mulch i would definitely consider lowering it at least
hallow kraken
that’s the plural of deuce
civic pond
wild deuces
versed mica
So uhh when you dig into the abyss from the bottom there already is a whole bunch of stuff that kills you
queen delta
Anti cheese is already 
in a game like Terraria
lost agate
If the enemies dont kill you, the suffocation will
queen delta
Well, anti cheese like that suggestion at least
lost agate
In the bottom of the abyss you lose all your breath in like 3 seconds
Also what even is there at the bottom that you would need an anti cheese for?
sand umbra
when can we add anti-cheese suggs to the don'ts
tired haven
I guess it's for moments when you want to grind minibosses and don't need to go through the other layers
~~except in optimal setup you don't lose brealth in them and time save is negligible
umbral mulch
Can't you setup teleporters in the abyss anyway
lost agate
You cant spawn in hell so idk about time save
And even then
If you dig a hole that doesnt flood hell, props to you
tired haven
All it takes is tube turn, no?
Can't really grab the image but that's what I did for sunken sea house
wait, abyss produces water out of everywhere..
tired haven
Actually, the produced water is nowhere near what the abyss has and hell vaporates most of it so should be fine anyway
raven patio
void kelp
the anti cheese for not digging into the abyss from the bottom up as stated by other people also includes breaking your game with severe lag spikes
frail mantle
it's not really a SIS but it is an Astrageldon suggestion
bitter topaz
@outer tusk read the donts doc, please
void kelp
its pretty SIS in the sense of "Add specific item that does this, and does this"
outer tusk
Ok
gusty geode
It isn't said anywhere afaik
So are lore suggestions allowed?
Given that the lore's in a bit of an odd place rn
Lotta inconsistencies and unexplained stuff
Letting the public help out might take some strain off the real writers
If it is I imagine it'd need an entirely separate set of rules tho
undone spade
Hey quick question about SCal's arena - if you put like 4 rows of platforms on one end where the arena spawns, you can freely walk in and out of the arena. Doesn't mean much unless you're in multi-player, if one person dies and respawns they can walk into the arena through that platform-entrance. Was this intentional?
cloud surge
Probably to make sure her arena doesn't destroy things the player made
undone spade
Makes sense but kinda lets you cheese her fight
umbral mulch
Have you tried leaving the borders of the arena during the fight
Hint don't fucking do that
undone spade
Reread what I wrote
If you die (and she doesn't despawn, for example if you're in multi-player) you can waltz right back into the arena and she won't be enraged
random flume
i feel like multiplayer has just
a lot of problems
just finished a run with friends yesterday
wasnt exactly perfect
umbral mulch
You can also just use RoD
undone spade
That's true. I have no idea if it's thanks to calamity or terraria itself but fighting DoG is kind of impossible for everyone but the host since the game starts lagging like crazy
I uh
Beat SCal and still don't have RoD
tepid root
what
void kelp
why specifically deactivate after the first kill
thick arch
would make grinding out the fights for free stuff not broken easy
thick arch
true
i wonder why they do non consumable for only some bosses though, like calamitas clone
tepid root
they do it for hard bosses ig?
dont really know why only clone has one, of all hardmode bosses
umbral mulch
Honestly I can get behind that
And it's not free money either because it stops being non consumable after they're dead
sullen parrot
what do u use to summon the ravager?
potent veldt
@thick arch I assume Clone's summon is nonconsumable just because you have to have it to make SCal's summon
Which is still odd, since you can still just buy it
thick arch
weird
potent veldt
Wait, actually
Is Eye of Desolation even sold by anyone?
Oh, huh, it's not
I guess that's why it's nonconsumable, then
distant gyro
other way around
it's not sold because it's non-consumable
the reason it's non-consumable is because the boss was notoriously known to be difficult before, when the 2-2-4/2-4-4 brother spawns exist
11 boss summons are non-consumable; skeletron, clone, deus, provi, polter, dog, yharon, scal (also sentinels exist)
grizzled stone
(sentinels)
distant gyro
apart from skeletron which is a vanilla voodoo doll thing; all of the bosses on the list are/were known to be difficult
fuck sentinels too
grizzled stone
Too late, I saw it, muhahaha
distant gyro
queen sail
There is absolutely nothing to gain from getting to layer 4 by going from the bottom
Nothing there is of worth or is attainable
distant gyro
boss summons were all consumable at some point yes
grizzled stone
The only thing there would be Terminus, but you get it from Yharon anyway, but at this point in time your pretty much destroying the mini bosses of the abyss
queen sail
Hmmmm yes
Today I will take down a shark with 3x the health of the vanilla game’s final boss and get nothing
tepid root
queen sail
All the while being in an environment where i can drown 5x faster than usual even with breathing equipment
grizzled stone
tepid root
also you can go to the abyss from below easily without flooding hell
grizzled stone
Hell would just dry the water to nothingness though.
queen sail
IQ 500
hollow shell
Cool, Viggma actually used the term "quality of life" correctly
queen sail
I can use it correctly too
Watch
Make DoG drop infini-Cosmilite, which is Cosmilite but it never runs out
Reason: QoL bc I hate farming
hollow shell
You're not quite wrong
umbral mulch
Bosses have a 1% chance to drop an infinite version of their crafting material
tepid root
swift wadi
Lol
cobalt rose
yea i don't think thats gonna be implemented
hollow shell
@carmine linden (it's cuz she swollen)
I'm pretty sure less health is the more sensical trade-off for reduced hitbox, not more damage
carmine linden
k
umbral mulch
Gameplay>Lore
hollow shell
PBG's a relatively old sprite.
We have ones that are older, but.. there was a big PBG resprite that was very nearly finished a while ago but then bad shit happened and it got scrapped
I'm pretty sure less health is the more sensical trade-off for reduced hitbox, not more damage
^ criticism
carmine linden
ok
smoky wagon
PBG resprite still is planned for some future date
And i imagine it will get updated lore then
carmine linden
Ah ok
hollow shell
I'm not sure about that, actually
The lore bit
swift wadi
@hollow shell This?
hollow shell
There is indeed a resprite planned
cobalt rose
fun fact: current PBG sprite is in 4x4 instead of the normal 2x2 that terraria sprites use
hollow shell
and yes, that's it
hollow idol
I have the anim version but bleh
smoky wagon
Mainly the lore about it being a mechanized queen bee
hollow shell
PBG will always be a bee
smoky wagon
Because it wouldnt make sense
hollow idol
smoky wagon
It might be a bee but it would be much bigger than queen bee
potent veldt
What happened that made that not be used?
hollow shell
The guy who designed it did the big quit
swift wadi
How did you paste it in animation
hollow shell
and didn't want it to be used
loud steeple
That sucks
cobalt rose
was it ziggums
hollow shell
It was indeed Ziggums
cobalt rose
thought so.
potent veldt
That seems like a really odd move, but aight
hollow shell
Also, L0st (the spriter) wasn't entirely satisfied with how the sprite turned out
potent veldt
wasn't entirely satisfied
It's lowkey better than most already-present Calamity sprites
carmine linden
would have been a good sprite
queen sail
No booster though 
cobalt rose
the reason i see for PBG being large is simply that she's a much larger plaguebringer, hence the "goliath."
hollow shell
Hot lore:
Plaguebringer minibosses are normal Queen Bees
Plaguebringer Goliath is a previously-unseen super Queen Bee that was unnaturally large and powerful prior to getting infected for whatever reason, then got plagued
swift wadi
Ah yes, the most-queen bee
random flume
bring back the really cool pbg sprite that i saw somewhere
oh
i scrolled up and saw it
hollow shell
You sure did see it somewhere
ashen warren
yo that sprite is dope tho
devout seal
It is very dope, yes
I'd attempt one, but PBG requires perspective and i hate that
gusty geode
Sorry for coming in late
But until the new sprite comes
You could look at it as the regular Plaguebringers being the mechanized QBs
Whereas the PBG is one that's had a lot of extra shit thrown onto it to make it stronger, explaining its size
dim palm
I find him much harder
opal silo
AA to me is much easier than golem
dim palm
Huh
sand umbra
AA is only hard because of the little planet bastards that he spawns in Rev+
placid moth
Yes
sand umbra
hot take
placid moth
Fuck those homing planets
dim palm
I found him alot worse then golem
terse sundial
The boss progression listed on the wiki is in that order because that is the intended progression laid out by the devs
opal silo
The little planet bastards can be smashed against the ground and it's easy to since you are allowed to fight it in an open space
dim palm
I know, I'm saying that the progression should be updated
distant gyro
Boss Progression is mostly arbitrary
dim palm
I guess it is a bit too subjective
terse sundial
It will not change on the wiki unless it is formally changed in-game
dim palm
To be changed
sand umbra
boss progression is a very strange term in Calamity's context, see
because Calamity itself lets you L E A P P around progression as much as Aureus does in his fight
distant gyro
Reminder this Yharon% exists
WoF
Cultist
ML
Birb
Rav
Yharon1
Mechs
Yharon2
hollow shell
It's not decided by the wiki
sand umbra
mhm
hollow shell
It's decided by Boss Checklist
swift wadi
Isn't that low%
distant gyro
Yes
hollow shell
which Calamity has control over
distant gyro
low%Yharon%
placid moth
I honestly think than Siren/Levi/AA should be Post-Golem
dim palm
I mean the fact that you can fight cultist before golem is pretty nuts on it's own
sand umbra
daily reminder that Cultist is still perfectly viable to kill at the start of Hardmode
terse sundial
Again, the boss progression on the wiki will not be changed unless changed in-game
hollow shell
It's nuts but it's good
sand umbra
Siren & Levi are just off somewhere in the distance, they're not on the beaten path and never have been
opal silo
The calamity progression is great for playing rouge class not for others as much doe
sand umbra
in any event, by intended progression, Astrum Aureus is meant to be wedged in-between Plantera and Golem
distant gyro
it's like frost moon and pumpkin moon
hollow shell
I skipped the fuck out of most post-Plantera and post-Golem Calamity bosses, just went straight to LC after Golem
because they're all hard as balls
hollow shell
(rogue class)
sand umbra
PBG is a BITCHASS motherfucker who dashes at me every time I so much as exist when she spawns
dim palm
Plaguebringer is just a bitchass in general
She's too lazy to even get her own sprite
Fuckin cunt
opal silo
I forgot PBG existed at one point
placid moth
bruh
terse sundial
Alright, let's calm down here
sand umbra
Siren & Levi give me PTSD
Aureus is easy except lol planets in Rev+, past that he's good though
Golem doesn't exist
Ravager is a harder and better Golem...for all the wrong/strangest reasons
dim palm
Ravager is edgey golem
devout seal
PBG really needs some new AI, tbh.
opal silo
The pillars are like phantasmal eyes
dim palm
And a new sprite
devout seal
mostly due to it sometimes trying to reposition, and sometimes just..
dashing immediately.
terse sundial
You fight Ravager opposite of how you fight golem
sand umbra
PBG's dashes share a lot of the same issues as Levi's dashes