suggestions-discussion

[queen sail]

She does that when she goes cocoon mode

@supple lodge :sproot:

is he actually gonna respond here

[supple lodge]

?

[queen sail]

Oh heyo

[supple lodge]

I have this channel muted

[quick ice]

I’d rather there be more changes to the generic enemies since those need the most help

[sand umbra]

most normal enemies don't really need it, although I can think of a few that may

[queen sail]

green jellyfish, mayhaps

Since they’re uh

[sand umbra]

why green specifically

[queen sail]

A generic jellyfish locked to hm for no reason

I mean if you’re gonna lock them to the part of the game where big changes happen at least give a reason

[supple lodge]

Although isn’t changing enemy behaviors what Masomode does already?

[sand umbra]

that's not how this works

that is not a Maso-exclusive thing

not in the fucking slightest
vanilla Expert does this already, albeit to a pitiful extent

[queen sail]

Vanilla Expert does, like

[sand umbra]

the suggestion, thereby, is to expand upon that idea by giving the higher modes more bearing on the actual game

[queen sail]

5 enemy ai changes

[supple lodge]

I mean on top of expert mode

[queen sail]

[sand umbra]

it's not a copyrighted idea ffs

[swift wadi]

This is suggestions for Calamity so anything a different mod does doesn't really matter iirc

[wild yoke]

I don't think this belongs in bugs with the 'I assume' bit, but aren't the totality breakers supposed to be totality beakers

[queen sail]

i tested out totality breakers on a world before my own playthrough and tbh they don’t feel worth

[quick ice]

Vanilla has 8 enemy AI changes, Rev mode has 6 and they’re all pretty simple

[queen sail]

You sacrifice homing bubbles and gigantic fire pillars for a fancier molotov

[sand umbra]

if you're gonna make Totality Breakers an upgrade to two separate entities, then it. really should inherit the characteristics of both at least partially

[queen sail]

Because i mean that’s all the totality breakers are

[sand umbra]

(personally, I feel like making them take the Toxic Flask or similar as a mat would be more thematically appropriate, but that's just me)

[queen sail]

Molotovs but oiled

Okay apparently they release three bombs on death but still, like

Homing bubbles

I got half way through levi pre plant with that

[sand umbra]

I've already made this point with exo-weps in the past but like
a weapon that takes something as an ingredient should inherit something from that ingredient, in my opinion

[queen sail]

Ark of the Cosmos certainly does

[sand umbra]

(vanilla has this issue as well --- see also, Sky Fracture)

[radiant meadow]

vivid uses like a good chunk of its components at least

[queen sail]

Vivid uses, like

Two

The two it chooses makes it the omega iq weapon it is today

AotC literally has two but like

It combines all the ingredients into smth

Actually in hindsight that’s a small point now that I think about it

[radiant meadow]

Vivid uses at least 3

Shadowbolt Staff, Elemental Ray, and Hellwing Staff

[sand umbra]

and it has...7

[radiant meadow]

well if you use every component, then it would look ugly

a weapon should only do so much

vivid would not be pretty if it started spawning souls and fat explosions on hit

[lost agate]

Totality breakers arent worth over disecrated water

[radiant meadow]

I nerfed desecrated and buffed totality 👀

[lost agate]

Hueh

[queen sail]

Just damage wise or did you change what totality does

[radiant meadow]

damage

because I like the function

[sand umbra]

I had a Vivid Clarity overhaul/rework in mind but lord knows it'll take me eons to get around to it

[radiant meadow]

but obviously what I need to do is remove the homing from desecrated water to shut you guys up

[lost agate]

The homing of disecrated could also be nerfed but eh

[queen sail]

Why does desecrated have homing

Considering how powerful homing can be

[radiant meadow]

because that's what it fucking said on the trello with all the weapon ideas

[queen sail]

[lost agate]

Why does a bullet made out of plant bar thing home in?

[queen sail]

Bc chlorophyte is expensive and you only get a dime’s worth of bullets per bar

:peepodetective:

[lost agate]

[queen sail]

what are these emotes they mystify me

[sand umbra]

Chloro Bullets homing is stupidly strong

a

[lost agate]

So is the dust power

[sand umbra]

that too

[queen sail]

:SatoriCantthinkofanameforthisone:

[sand umbra]

actually
I wonder if I could potentially pitch EE's Chloro Bullets nerf for main

since I already did something to nerf both aspects a fair bit ago

[queen sail]

You can easily make an entire stack of crystal/cursed/ichor bullets easier than a stack of chloro bullets

Though i admit they do become pretty once you got a chloro farm goin

[lost agate]

That still doesnt explain why it magically gets homing

But not like theres a proper reason anyway

[sand umbra]

...should I go rework Chloro Bullets rq to make them do something different

[queen sail]

You’re askin in the game where god piss is the most powerful debuff so

[lost agate]

Exactly

[sand umbra]

byeah

[hollow shell]

Fuck, Desecrated Water is getting nerfed

My carry

[queen sail]

You thought you were safe? :echceasebegone:

[hollow shell]

(also Ballistic Poison Bomb is everything Totality Breakers wishes it could be)

[sand umbra]

oh fuck I forgot

Ballistic Poison Bomb exists at the same tier

and is god iirc

[hollow shell]

I found Desecrated better in a few cases but yeah Ballistic's really good

[queen sail]

Suggestion: Add Ballistic Poison Bomb to Totality Breakers’ recipe

Problem solved

Now you only have one choice

[hollow shell]

But what if:

Craft two ballistics

[queen sail]

[gusty geode]

Are we allowed to suggest
Just general directions for the mod as a whole

[ashen warren]

the pins in #suggestions-voting basically say wat to suggest and wat not to

[distant gyro]

wdym "general directions for the mod"

[ashen warren]

but i dont think suggesting general direction for the mods is really a good idea or it will be accepted cuz most of the stuff are already planned ahead

[sand umbra]

this is very vague even for suggs standards

elaborate, if you will

[gusty geode]

What I mean is
I think the devs could benefit from just
Slowing down
Every major update focuses on adding new things
But I think that, instead of adding more to the pile and fixing it later
They should focus on polishing what they have and dealing with existing issues summoner for a bit

[sand umbra]

...I agree with this, on one hand

but on the other, the devs seem to very highly value the coming content (Draedon)

[hollow shell]

Well, except
Would the rogue additions not be considered expanding upon what already existed?

[queen sail]

I tried to do that but i got the :echcease: from one of the devs that heard it bc they got an entire schedule laid out and weren’t fond of making adjustments to something that’s busy

Iirc

[sand umbra]

the rogue expansion is already a very

large

undertaking.

[hollow shell]

Rogue updates are major content additions, yes
but it's so that the existing class is more fleshed out and comparable to the other classes

For instance, summoner, as you say

That would be adding weapons and accessories and stuff, just like we're doing now with rogue

[sand umbra]

I mean, summoner isn't exactly the best class to start off with

vanilla did summoner and throwing dirty

[queen sail]

throwing

I assume you mean [REDACTED]

[topaz bramble]

rogue moment?

Rogue moment.

[hallow hatch]

[queen sail]

Tfw we got shit on for making “edgy throwing” and then relogic just screws over every mod that tried expanding throwing

[gusty geode]

You could look at it as fixing the classes we have before adding new ones

[hollow shell]

We already had rogue before the updates

[hallow hatch]

Is there even a hm throwing armor

[queen sail]

Throwing ceases to exist in hm

[gusty geode]

Yeah, too late now, I get that

[sand umbra]

I would appreciate more summon weapons for Calamity's purposes, yeah, but like

Rogue needs the content too

[queen sail]

And rogue needs something defining

If it’s going to be “more than Throwing”

[hollow shell]

It does

[sand umbra]

well yes, although that does kinda lead back to my question I posed a while back in regards to that

[hollow shell]

Stealth

[queen sail]

Bc atm i don’t think people are buying the stealth thing too much

[sand umbra]

see, Stealth is wacky to me because it requires doing something that is rather harshly advised against in the general scenario where you're intended to use the mechanic

[hollow shell]

May not be a great definition but it's the mechanic that's pervasive throughout the whole game and it's what very nearly all the equipment is based around

[queen sail]

And when you get to bypass how it’s naturally built up you’re at least halfway through the game

[sand umbra]

though I guess that's more in how it's executed --- the idea of stealth is still a rather unique one

[queen sail]

And yes standing still is the exact opposite of what you want to do for all of the game’s boss fights

Unless it’s DS on a platform above it

Then again DS isn’t a boss

[sand umbra]

my pitch for stealth behaving more like Vortex stealth is still in my plans somewhere btw

[distant gyro]

There might be more means of obtaining stealth without standing still in the future

wink

[queen sail]

Obtain Stealth by autopause and wait ten hours

👌

[distant gyro]

SV

[sand umbra]

I still sorta think it bears a very striking resemblance to how mana works at a fundamental level
the difference is that instead of being unable to use the weapon, you are instead unable to get the cool stealth strike effects

[hollow shell]

I can only wish that Terraria/Calamity had a greater world/exploration focus than boss focus
Because stealth is useful outside of boss fights

[gusty geode]

I remember once I suggested like
Hiding places
Certain objects you could hide behind to gain stealth

[hollow shell]

Or at least, much more useful than when in boss fights

[sand umbra]

see, I'd agree wtih you there

[cobalt rose]

its just that exploring the world becomes piss easy in hm

[sand umbra]

but by the time you consistently have reason to build it up you're never going to be regularly fighting normal enemies, and generally anything that you will hit with a stealth strike in any scenario dies fast enough for it not to matter

[gusty geode]

At the time I suggested that the boss enter a sorta "search mode"
But that'd be ridiculously hard to code
So instead, maybe you could just be invincible while hiding
And this wears off when you attack

[distant gyro]

I still sorta think it bears a very striking resemblance to how mana works at a fundamental level
At this point you can probably tie rogue to every class in the game
Same weapon variants as melee
Similar function to ranged of yeet
etc

[sand umbra]

same weapon variants as melee is because nobody wants to bite the bullet and kill the melee variants of all those freakin' boomerangs

[hollow shell]

Alright whatever hey lets get back on more productive suggestion topic

[sand umbra]

[hollow shell]

This is the sorta convo we were talkin about the other day

and yeah it's easy to fall into as evidenced by the fact that I fell into it too

[sand umbra]

I try not to go on these ramblings, I swear to god I do

just happens with stuff I really care about ig

anywho back to productivity meme

where were we

[gusty geode]

Ok, so hiding
I bet it could work like
You can only hide when there aren't any enemies within a certain radius
So you would be encouraged to keep a very large distance from bosses, larger than other classes
Running to the other side of the arena, hiding, attacking, and repeating that cycle

[elfin maple]

wait was there an @everyone here or did someone ping me

[sand umbra]

I thought every boss in Calamity discourages or flat-out disables running away like a pansy though

[hollow shell]

Hec pinged you earlier

Devs had no opinion on your sugg
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/465195069406707722/661054576539205683

[elfin maple]

ah ok

[queen sail]

Stealth like shroomite stealth seems to be built for mp tbh

[sand umbra]

not Shroomite stealth s m h

Vortex stealth

[hollow shell]

Shroomite stealth is the example cuz it requires standing still

[sand umbra]

oh

[queen sail]

[sand umbra]

I'm stupid

[gusty geode]

Oh yeah, snipers could potentially be rogue weapons

[sand umbra]

no please

let's not give Rogue any more of an identity crisis than it's already suffering

it's already nearly every vanilla class in one + throwing

[queen sail]

snipers

rogue

Hm yes throw gun

[hollow shell]

Duuude

I'd love a gun throwing weapon

that you throw

[queen sail]

WAIT

Rogue gun wep that spams bullets everywhere on impact

[gusty geode]

Sniping requires stealth
My connection

[sand umbra]

sniping
also requires ammo

vanilla's connection between snipers and ranger

[queen sail]

Rogue id about thieves and the like

[hollow shell]

If the gun bounced multiple times like uhhh
Gel Darts, I guess

and fired a bullet in the direction it's facing every time it hits the ground

[queen sail]

When did thieves and bandits use snipers

[hollow shell]

and the bullet deals significant damage considering it'd be very random

[queen sail]

:peepodetective:

[hollow shell]

That'd be fun

[gusty geode]

Assassins might

[cobalt rose]

maybe like The Bullet gun from gungeon?

[lost agate]

When did thieves and bandits use snipers
Ever heard of gunpoint robberies?

[sand umbra]

no please I already have a shameless Bullet knockoff

...although, now that I think of it

[queen sail]

Is a handgun not enough though

[lost agate]

Apparently no

[queen sail]

:peepodetective:

[sand umbra]

also a sniper rifle isn't exactly cool or convenient

[lost agate]

Btw whats the topic for even?

[gusty geode]

I can name plenty of ways to make stealth interesting
But none that wouldn't require rewriting the entire game

[queen sail]

Squid suggested making snipers part of rogue

[distant gyro]

revamping rogue etc apparently

[lost agate]

We still havent really finished rogue tbh

[sand umbra]

discussion of rogue stealth and how it could be improved

probably

[lost agate]

Theres still a lot of room for changes

[queen sail]

I suggested, like

A rogue handgun you just toss and then it bounces on the floor shooting bullets everywhere

Like those cartoon guns

[sand umbra]

I should go write up more of that rogue stealth rework I had in mind
if only for my own purposes in the rather far future

[queen sail]

Then again that’s not exactly stealthy, is it

[placid moth]

what rework

[sand umbra]

imma go do productive stuff
yeet

[distant gyro]

funny mod advertisement in disc

[lost agate]

Rework for something thats still WIP is eh, but what do i know

[distant gyro]

[gusty geode]

Expanding on line of sight and maybe a noise mechanic would make stealth a lot more interesting
But both would be really painful to code

[hollow shell]

I do like the hiding idea, because many enemies have behaviors that they go about when you have full stealth and they can't see you
which makes building stealth and executing stealth strikes more possible

Bosses need idle behaviors as well to make it work for them, as opposed to always targeting you and never losing sight of you no matter what

[sand umbra]

it'd also justify the fact that half the enemies that can actually yeet at you through walls have approximately zero concept of object permanence

[hollow shell]

(also some enemies don't have idle behaviors which is bothersome
Stealthing in the Crags: Scryllars float past you, Despair Stones bounce on by, Heat Spirits get a little whiff of you but never turn around for a second try...
and then Soul Slurpers immediately sense your ass and fire at will)

Okay, okay
Rogue
Needs a substitute item, a decoy

It's possible. Stardust Guardian does it.
But that's the only example in the game

[gusty geode]

I like this

[sand umbra]

now there's an idea I can get behind

and one that doesn't require rebalancing the entirety of rogue, at that!

[hollow shell]

It would actually make stealth mean something

[sand umbra]

you have my interest

[hollow shell]

The decoy should naturally have less aggro than the base player, so you're incentivized to stealthify

(which could get a bit buddy with the Mirror accessory line, which naturally reduces aggro...)

(but...

incentive to stealthify)

[sand umbra]

actually

[hollow shell]

If rogue gets a decoy then players can get openings to build stealth,
say, dodge around without attacking using a Mirror in order to get a lil bit of stealth, then toss out the decoy to distract them to build up the rest

[sand umbra]

that may be your ticket here

why not give the Mirrors this sort of effect in some capacity

a mirror may cast a reflection on one's self, no?

[hollow shell]

The first one is named Mirage Mirror...

[sand umbra]

[hollow shell]

but, that may be inflating them too much
Mirrors are already decently packed with effects

[sand umbra]

mmm, that's true

a missed opportunity, but alas

[queen sail]

Mirage Mirror new effect: press Y to leave a clone at your position for enemies with 200 iq to attack

[sand umbra]

that's what happens when everything is packed into a singular tree and the result tries to compensate for that
h

[queen sail]

You are forever invisible and don’t exist

[hollow shell]

Decoys would probably have health
so that you're not given complete freedom from any situation for some period of time.
More difficult to slunk away during a clusterfuck, your decoys get torn to shreds

Maybe there could be one variant which doesn't have health, but it costs some/all stealth to use it or has some other trade-off....

iunno

[sand umbra]

...I've just become a genius

[hollow shell]

Important thing is that at least one gets in at all

[sand umbra]

I have an idea that is actually way better than it has any right to be

so about the Pocket Mirror--

could potentially add the functionality to it or give it some things it can be crafted into which give the decoy effect

because current Pocket Mirror is actually worthless

[hollow shell]

I dislike this idea

[sand umbra]

may I ask why

[hollow shell]

Would be much better to add Pocket Mirror to the Ankh Shield or its upgrades

[distant gyro]

Pocket Mirror is currently only made to be a forgotten part of ankh

[sand umbra]

I mean fair

[queen sail]

Changing the complete function of a vanilla item

[distant gyro]

Same for Hand Warmer

[sand umbra]

Pocket Mirror and Hand Warmer

[placid moth]

what the heck are those things

[hollow shell]

Making it also have a completely unrelated rogue effect
is not a good idea

especially cuz it's a vanilla item

[distant gyro]

PM - Immunity to stoned

[placid moth]

oh.

[distant gyro]

HW - Immunity to Chilled.. and Frozen?

[placid moth]

That sounds useful for Cryo

[sand umbra]

HW - Immunity to some cold debuffs...except Ankh itself gives these

[frank stratus]

It is

[sand umbra]

and the Warmth Potion exists

[distant gyro]

nope becsuse glacial state exists

[sand umbra]

oh yeah btw

[frank stratus]

Hand warmer and the heat buff thing are very good against cold based stuff

[distant gyro]

and hand warmer doesn't give immunity to freeze 2.0

[sand umbra]

Warmth prevents Glacial State procs

[ashen warren]

wait there's a accessory that specifically countering medusa? unless there r more enemies that stone you

[sand umbra]

Hand Warmer doesn't

[hollow shell]

Specifically Medusa

[distant gyro]

Warmth does prevent Glacial yea

[sand umbra]

also yes specifically Medusas

[hollow shell]

It drops from Medusa.

[distant gyro]

Masomeme

[frank stratus]

Oh yeah pocket mirror exists for some reason and I keep forgetting that

[placid moth]

Speaking of Medusas, how do you use medusa's head

[frank stratus]

What does it drop from? Medusa?

[sand umbra]

listen, Maso's enemy drops actually do affect more than the one entity they drop from

[distant gyro]

Medusas ofc

[ashen warren]

that seems oddly specific, prolly could have made that effect into the blindfold

[sand umbra]

[hollow shell]

Step one: Craft a Mechanical Worm

Step two: Now you can use Medusa's Head

[frank stratus]

I've never used Medusas head tbh

[hollow shell]

It's not great

anyway

[sand umbra]

Step three: You now have Souls of Might, enjoy

[hollow shell]

Decoys.

Let's
get it on

[sand umbra]

decoys.

[hollow shell]

I could try suggesting it. I haven't made a suggestion in a while.

[sand umbra]

so like, where would...I suppose you can call it the introductory accessory/item? for this mechanic lie

[distant gyro]

Rogue style of Ninjitsu

[placid moth]

Well

[hollow shell]

I don't know when you'd start getting it but the earlier the better imo

[placid moth]

that sounds amazing for moon events

and solar eclipse

just farming effortlessly without being attacked

[hollow shell]

Well that's why the decoys should have health

and cooldowns

Gotta be strategic

[placid moth]

remove 25% of player max hp to make a substitute

[hollow shell]

Hm, perhaps

Don't wanna get specific on what the trade-offs should be though
Just wanna get the idea introduced

How's this

Give the Rogue class "decoy" item(s) to distract enemies and draw away aggro.

During boss fights, it is very difficult to build up stealth, and even if you do it can hardly be considered "stealth", as the aggro reduction aspect is completely lost on bosses. If rogues had substitutes/decoys at their disposal, they could draw bosses' attention off of themselves, even if only for a moment, to actually stand still and build some stealth.
To make decoys less of a free pass, they could have health, so that more heavy assaults are hard to escape, and of course cooldowns. They may also have naturally less aggro than the player or require some stealth to send out, which would incentivize the Mirror accessories' (and Penumbra Potion's) slow stealth build-up while moving, as the player could stop attacking and focus on dodging to generate a bit of stealth, then throw out their decoy in order to build up the rest.

Currently, attempting to build stealth the intended way during boss fights is suicide. Having distractions to pull away enemy aggro would give rogue stealth much more usefulness and meaning.

[umbral mulch]

I feel like that could be used to dodge specific attacks on bosses

And on bosses that have slower attacks it'd distract for too long

And make getting adrenaline really easy

I know english

[hollow shell]

True, adrenaline could be an issue
But, decoys wouldn't need to last any longer than 3 seconds for good stealthing, so it's not that much Adren even at the lowest charge time

Some balance would need to be struck..
(Could have both a duration and health)

[umbral mulch]

Part of the problem is you're removing agro from yourself

And that can be used to make bosses like say yharon dash the opposite direction from you

And give you way more time than it should

I'm amazing at english dispite it being the only language I know

[hollow shell]

A few seconds of diverted attacks in a 3 or 4 minute boss fight doesn't seem too bad
And... it may be the only way to make our current rogue stealth work at all...

[umbral mulch]

Part of the reason I think stealth should act as an adrenaline replacement

Just about any ideas that involve building stealth the way it is could more than likely be used to cheese out adrenaline in some way or another

And then you have adrenaline and a stealth strike

[sand umbra]

it. really shouldn't

[umbral mulch]

It shouldn't

[sand umbra]

Adrenaline in and of itself is already a balancing headache

[umbral mulch]

But that's the only way I can see stealth strikes actually working

[sand umbra]

one of these days I'll throw my pitch as a sugg or something

[distant gyro]

somebody once told me

Death Adrenaline + Lunar Kunai rolls Provi in 5 seconds

from 100 to 0, they claim

[frank stratus]

[umbral mulch]

Altix you missed a quality meme and I'm slightly disappointed

[hollow shell]

(I think he executed it pretty well)

[sand umbra]

I. really should expand on my own ideas for rogue stealth sometime

and just. at least attempt to pitch the result as a sugg

[umbral mulch]

I should actually go test that

[sand umbra]

I'm almost certain it'd never go anywhere because god knows the last thing anyone's gonna fuckin' do is rework the main mechanic of rogue halfway through the expansion but meh
I might as well try at some point and if nothing else gauge interest

[hollow shell]

Thanks for the feedback, Kirn
I'll add short duration as a possibility

iunno what to do about the Adren situation, we'll cross that bridge when we get there

[sand umbra]

as I said, Adrenaline is a balancing headache

probably best to leave that for if this actually does pick up the necessary momentum

(and I seriously hope it does, I really like the idea)

[umbral mulch]

Altix whoever told you that is a liar and a fool

[distant gyro]

[umbral mulch]

Didn't work with my setup at least and it's probably the best you're getting at this stage in terms of damage

[hollow shell]

I can't help but feel like my suggestion is leaning into specificity, especially with my pre-emptive balancing concern fixes
but
it's probably fine

[queen delta]

Its fine to me

[umbral mulch]

Personally I like suggestions the most that have specific balance points brought up

[sand umbra]

specificity in itself isn't a bad thing

[hollow shell]

You can see how this could easily be worded as a specific item suggestion, though

[sand umbra]

oh, of course, I won't deny that

but defining mechanics for an item series that may very well be the best gambit you've got for making rogue stealth relevant is almost necessary

and I can guarantee that being any less vague about it would cause an hour-long discussion in this channel about at least 6 different balancing points
hell there may very well be one on the horizon I'm not seeing

[umbral mulch]

There is

If you're questioning it there is

[sand umbra]

personally though, given the context and how much this would actually help rogue stealth back onto the earlier-game map in particular, I don't really mind the specific aspects

[distant gyro]

next update will super probably add new ways to expend stealth

[hollow shell]

I'm afraid this idea will get immediately shot down upon reaching the dev server
(assuming it gets there. It probably will but it ain't guaranteed)
which has happened in the past

[teal ibex]

omg rover suggestion

[distant gyro]

but stealth is still leaned towards late game more than early

[hollow shell]

In main we're all talking about how it'd be a super cool great idea
gets delivered
"yeah fuck no, did you think about this? "

[distant gyro]

[umbral mulch]

That question mark looks wierd merging with the quotations

[sand umbra]

...I am suddenly very worried

[distant gyro]

coming from a group of devs talking about what pokemon types calamity enemies are for 1 hour

[sand umbra]

[tired haven]

Yknow, that's kind of funny I have played mp with rogue player and basically acted like a decoy afterwards
The problem is, bosses were so mad and irrational that personally I preferred being aggroed on than to be free from the attention

But that whole experience is different from decoys so take that with a grain of salt

[hollow shell]

Yknow
I guess rogue is pretty multiplayer-centric, now that I think about it

It didn't even cross my mind

[sand umbra]

[hollow shell]

Decoys are just a way to have other players in single-player

[sand umbra]

...and suddenly, it all makes sense

[umbral mulch]

Also what's preventing other classes from using said decoys

[sand umbra]

this is why rogue stealth sucks

[hollow shell]

The stealth requirement would ensure that

[quartz hare]

where's this ping
i was sleeping

[hollow shell]

if done.

Lht
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/465195069406707722/661054576539205683

Devs approved of your suggestion

[sand umbra]

it's for the same reason as Shroomite stealth

the main effects of the stealth only truly work well in a scenario where someone else is present to tank the opponent

in singleplayer, you don't get this luxury

[quartz hare]

thanks

[hollow shell]

np

[sand umbra]

so even with endgame stealth-building equipment, you still don't get much use out of it in SP because...you're still the primary target

the aggro reduction does nothing and the main mechanic is that you stand still without attacking, a privilege that many later-game opponents especially do not grant you

Shroomite has a similar mechanic and thus functions better in MP for similar reasoning

holy fuck this explains so much about stealth

[placid moth]

speaking of aggro reduction, i feel like that mechanic for putrid scent and flesh knuckles could be changed

nobody uses those things but

[sand umbra]

and why I liked Vortex stealth so much as an idea

on a fundamental level
Shroomite stealth is MP focused
Vortex stealth is SP focused

[distant gyro]

after those were moved out of shrines, they became real obsolete

[sand umbra]

I have been enlightened tonight.

[distant gyro]

also vortex is bruh

[tired haven]

I indeed use putrid scent... in vanilla
Calamity power level suppresses the normal use of these

[distant gyro]

legends say you can stand still and kill ml with sdmg

[tired haven]

Probably a mild lie

[sand umbra]

remind me to rewrite Vortex set effect soontm

[distant gyro]

sounds plausible on nornal mode

[tired haven]

Even prism won't be able to stay still

normal mode calcs

[umbral mulch]

Someone also said you could melt provi in 5 seconds with lunar kunai

I'm not trusting the things people say to you anymore

[sand umbra]

someone also said Sticky Spiky Balls were good

[hollow shell]

They are
You ever use that shit with Feather Crown?

[distant gyro]

smh I have footage to back those up

[umbral mulch]

I don't see it

[sand umbra]

why the hell are you using Sticky Spiky Balls post-HM/Perfs tho

[distant gyro]

and 45 second aqua scourge kill

[sand umbra]

why use SSBs at that tier when the chad Turbulance exists

[hollow shell]

Turbulance sucks, fight me

[sand umbra]

them's fightin' words--

[distant gyro]

I was referring to Sticky Spiky Balls and Golden Shower respectively btw

[sand umbra]

wait a fuckin' minute what

[umbral mulch]

Wait why not flask of ichor

[sand umbra]

when did Golden Shower become relevant

[distant gyro]

Golden Shower exclusively killed aqua sc in 45 seconds

[hollow shell]

Flask of Ichor is indeed the better option than Golden Shower

[distant gyro]

solo.

[hollow shell]

wh

[sand umbra]

what.

[hollow shell]

Dick doodley

[sand umbra]

what in the actual mother fuck

I have never heard of Golden Shower being a viable combat option until now

ok

[umbral mulch]

I mean it still applies ichor

Automatically pretty viable as a supportive weapon

[sand umbra]

AS is a worm boss

worm bosses are generally immune to everything

[distant gyro]

this was due to infinite piercing

[hollow shell]

Does only Destroyer have the infinite piercing destruction?

[tired haven]

It isn't infinite but about 10 I think?

[distant gyro]

golden shower averages at 5,500 DPS while Golden Shower is hitting every segment

[hollow shell]

Actually it's four, lol

[distant gyro]

You heard that right.

5500

[tired haven]

Sounds wrong rn

But oh well maybe some calcs are off

[distant gyro]

granted it was a glass cannon setup ft. Bloody Mary

[hollow shell]

According to vanilla wiki, Golden Shower does not have infinite piercing

[distant gyro]

but it's impressive regardless considering a support weapon

[hollow shell]

okay thanks vanilla wiki

that sounded dismissive but it actually did clear up a bit

[distant gyro]

oh thanks deception tactics

[sand umbra]

and this is why local and ID static i-frames are the superior systems
Terraria's inherent wackiness strikes again ig

[tired haven]

Not really because that change would make GS even more effective

/s

(s because the damage numbers can be easily adjusted but wack behaviour cannot be)

[sand umbra]

(ID-static i-frames want a word with you)

[distant gyro]

before anyone ask, https://youtu.be/ipNtGch8570

anyways

we moved a bit out of topic now iirc

[hollow shell]

I feel like we get this suggestion often.

[ashen warren]

Isnt rogue alr like op af

Why add more mechanics

bc the whole thing with rogue is stealth which only gains while you are standing still but try standing still for most bosses post ML and you'll be dead within seconds

[nova reef]

do u gain stealth while in freefall? cuz if so use portal gun

u could also try using teleporters

[hollow shell]

No, I don't think so

Teleportere could work, if you wanna be a bit cheap

[night cradle]

you only gain stealth while not moving, so freefalling wouldn't work

[sacred current]

would sticking making calamity mod music and extra mod music no sync into suggestions be fine?

[night cradle]

not really

the extra music mod is supposed to be separate, so people can choose if they want to have the new music playing or not

[sacred current]

the issue is that trying multiplayer with it causes the joining players to get stuck downloading

[night cradle]

since the extra music is for vanilla music replacement, so some players may prefer vanilla music over the mod's

[sacred current]

oops discord is being bitchy
i meant making them no sync

which they aren't

this is what i am stuck with whenever i try to join a multiplayer game

it's both a tmod and calamity issue
since if my understanding is correct servers are understandably slow but it's the same mod version
if it was no sync this issue wouldn't persist

[nova reef]

i dont think ive ever had that issue with before

are u guys using the uptodate version of tmodl and calamity music?

[sacred current]

yes

this isn't a help channel however

[ashen warren]

@sacred current my friend told me that he gets that whenever he tried to join me lol disable mod music first

[sacred current]

yeah i fixed it but i still think it should be no sync in case one party has a different opinion on the mod music

[small talon]

@sacred current I had the same problem when i put together a multiplayer, even though the manual download from the discord and the mod browser SAY they are the same thing, the game sees them as different and it trys to download what the host has. So i suggest you and your friends do the manual download somewhere deep in #mod-downloads, only way it worked for me and my friends.

[ashen warren]

browser problems

[tired haven]

post-Scal weapon suggestions

[queen sail]

Are the chickens usually not enough or

[tired haven]

Tbh I don't think this one suggestion should exist since dev team is well aware of literally 0 summoner dev drops

And mhm, summoner certainly falls off in dps at boss rush, to the point where it's a challenge class again, but eh, nuggets can still eat bosses

@silent turret that fits more to a bug, please move to #bugs-read-pins
(amusing lightshow tho)

[silent turret]

@tired haven done

[tired haven]

:+1:

[silent turret]

Wasn't sure if it really counts as a bug as technically the interaction seems like it works normally but it's way too overpowered

[tired haven]

That's fair thought, yeah

Most recurring quiver interactions are usually patched out (like with ichor darts)

[distant gyro]

time to put aether whisper on projectileexclude

[lost agate]

Wouldnt that happen with basically any splitting projectile?

[radiant meadow]

also, there is a summoner dev weapon ready to program

but nobody wants to program it afaik

summons are scary

[frail mantle]

[tired haven]

Well, unless told otherwise in code, that's usually what happens with splits yes

[lost agate]

Guess who is planning to code that termi

[radiant meadow]

imagine planning to code like 4 complex functions with tilting, lasers, flamethrowers, spinning, dashing, and more

[lost agate]

Good learning experience iirc

[radiant meadow]

@nova reef byeah, we already have a planned post scal summoner weapon

[tepid root]

are you saying the minion will do all of those

[lost agate]

cough

[potent veldt]

The minion is scal

[lost agate]

cough cough

[void kelp]

and brothers, huh?

[lost agate]

dies

[void kelp]

its ok shucks we believe in you!!

[potent veldt]

Take some medicine

[lost agate]

You know, i cant answer that cuz its not my dev item

[potent veldt]

One day, just for memes, I want a mechworm upgrade that is just straight up DoG

[void kelp]

i hope its a dont fuckle with shuckle item

[potent veldt]

Like its not a mini anymore, its just the entire worm

[lost agate]

I may not be able to talk about that one but i'll tell you mine is also a summon

[void kelp]

that sounds neat!

also, perhaps add "post-scal summon weapons" to frquently suggested?

[lost agate]

Maybe

[radiant meadow]

can we just blacklist anything post scal?

[void kelp]

just so anyone who checks

smarter idea

[potent veldt]

Might as well, since its basically all dev weapons

[lost agate]

Will be allowed when yharim or smth comes out hueh

[radiant meadow]

my dev weapon would be in the game if I could sprite

[lost agate]

learn spriting with me iirc

[lost agate]

scaling

[keen geyser]

Big nono

[quartz hare]

scales

[void kelp]

why not have it just rely on % HP instead

[tired haven]

SCALing

[fervent citrus]

:thonk-1:

Wat

[void kelp]

@surreal seal suggestions are sent separately (if they’re sent) so chaining them with an “also” is unnecessary

but also please

[tepid root]

bro

what

[void kelp]

@echo horizon please read the pins

[foggy plover]

mods'll handle it dont worry bout it

[echo horizon]

o

[tired haven]

It breaks like 2 rules at once, absolute unit

[tepid root]

this is funny i laugh

[void kelp]

specific item sugma and meme sugma

[ashen warren]

damn i missed a spicy sugma

[grizzled stone]

It do be like that sometimes

[manic pumice]

whats spicy

[ashen warren]

sugma balls

[queen delta]

Cease with the memeing here please.

[void kelp]

@raven moth how does it fare against bosses, though?

[hallow kraken]

Are you just using “OP”as “it can kill please nerf”

[hollow shell]

Going through tiles infinitely doesn't necessarily equal "OP"

[ashen warren]

^

[hallow kraken]

Could you send things like DPS tests and whatnot to prove it’s “broken”

[hollow shell]

If you don't like that it can go through tiles forever and break a million pots and 20 Queen Bee larvae
then, fair enough, suggest that it have less duration or that it shouldn't go through tiles

but "OP" should not be the word to describe that

[hallow kraken]

or maybe don’t send tests because the suggestion greatly over exaggerates the definition of overpowered

[void kelp]

starfury stars pass through blocks and also randomly spawns QB, is that OP?

[hallow kraken]

yeah nerf that

can beat um

[raven moth]

well, it didn't do too well against Queen Bee, and you guys are right about me saying it is OP, I admit, I did exaggerate, but I was just suggesting a limit on how many blocks it can penetrate

@hollow shell "OP" is an exaggeration

and sorry I didn't respond earlier, I was busy playing lmao

[hollow shell]

You can edit the suggestion to use different wording

[raven moth]

yeah, I did

better wording?

[hollow shell]

Better, thank you

[raven moth]

you're welcome

[raven moth]

wait a sec, when I typed that suggestion, I legit forgot about the planetoids, so I probably hit a larva inside a planetoid, so maybe it isn't as powerful as I thought ... 🤦‍♂️

[versed mica]

Yeah I was gonna say chances are you didn’t kill a bee inside of the jungle

[gusty geode]

Add new Planetoids that are essentially balls of ebon/crimstone surrounding a Shadow Orb/Crimson heart, and have both generate regardless of the world evil

Why?
A) It allows for the loot from both Orbs and Hearts to be obtained regardless of the world evil
B) For people with really bad luck, it gives people a few extra chances to get items from the orb variant they did pick
C) Probably most importantly, it adds a ready supply of both Ebonstone and Crimstone to be harvested, making it easier to build artificial evil biomes and fight bosses

Feel like I've suggested this before
But regardless, thoughts?

[hollow shell]

We've got NPCs selling the orb/heart items, right?

[umbral mulch]

Ye I was about to say

[ashen warren]

ye

[gusty geode]

Not all of them last I checked
Could be wrong tho

[umbral mulch]

Don't NPCs sell stuff from the other world evils

[hollow shell]

Yeah I don't think it's all of em but it's the important ones

[umbral mulch]

And you have the evil island if you wanna fight something from the other biome

And I dunno if it's just me but I always get the same shit out of orbs every single time

First one is always an undertaker

Next one is a panic necklace

And third is the heart

Every single time without fail

[gusty geode]

You're guaranteed to get the gun from your first smash
The others seem like luck tho

[umbral mulch]

I don't know if that's just me or if that's supposed to happen

[frail mantle]

the first orb/heart broken is always the gun, the ones afterwards are randomized

[umbral mulch]

Now second question

Why does anything but the gun matter

I trash everything except the panic necklace because deific exists and before I trash undertaker I wait for arms dealer

[gusty geode]

Shadow Orbs may drop Bands of Starpower
Plus the light pets are helpful

[hollow shell]

Band of Starpower's very useful in crafting for mages

and uhh
Vilethorn's pretty good

Light pets are nice

[gusty geode]

Pre-Hardmode Nimbus Rod can be helpful for invasions

[lost agate]

I thought i made enchanted axe projectile last for even less already?

[hollow shell]

In test or public

[lost agate]

Public

[umbral mulch]

I just play crimson so dunno how good corruption's drops actually are

[lost agate]

It lasts barely 2 and a half seconds

With the speed they have it shouldnt fly that far away

Shouldnt be more than a screen or 2

Yes i just checked

Its barely like barely 2 screens worth of travel time

So yeah maybe it was just a planetoid

[warm tinsel]

Yay my suggestion got a whopping 91 "Yes" thx Hec❤️

To be fair, I only made it reserved for when SCal becomes humanoid but thanks anyway

[hollow shell]

Kinda surprised ngl
One or two devs voiced that they didn't like how it pertained to future human SCal content
but, neither of em voted against it

[grim tusk]

Do you think Skeletron Prime needs a nerf?

[opal barn]

His head HP is getting nerfed next update

[grim tusk]

Yeah he never dies (I mostly leave him at 5%)

[umbral mulch]

Thank fuck

[teal ibex]

https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/659870263751737364 👍 @neat geyser
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/659761640019066880 🚫 @fleet igloo
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/659560405030535190 👍 @rapid pivot
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/659529804114165800 👍 @quick ice
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/657706563603136543 👍 @placid girder
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/655444534226059295 No opinion @supple lodge

[queen sail]

Did they ever say why for the aureus and deus one

[teal ibex]

afaik it conflicts with existing plans for stuff

[hallow kraken]

Guess hell burst sug didn’t go well

[hollow shell]

Deus's current spawn method is temporary

[lost agate]

Indeed

(btw i didnt reject the scal one cuz i simply found it weird to be suggested so early, but can be kept in consideration)

[gusty geode]

Would a channel for asking the devs questions be ok?
I believe I heard that's what #help-advice-read-pins is for
But it's not officially stated anywhere

[teal ibex]

i like the idea but the execution sounds like it would be a nightmare

[terse sundial]

a channel like that would require constant moderation

[keen geyser]

oh my, that'd be chaos

pure chaos

[terse sundial]

just incase of people being dumb and abusing that power

[gusty geode]

That's another situation where a role for people who have proven themselves sane would be great

[lost agate]

So cd chats

[gusty geode]

Yeah but the average user actually has a shot at getting it

[frank stratus]

the average user should be able to get CD if they stay active...unless "average" somehow dropped to brain level

[gusty geode]

Could get like
A leveling system like a lot of other servers have
And reaching something like level 10 or so awards people with a role that gives access to some extra channels
By that point most of the immature users, spammers, etc
Basically anyone that could cause a problem
Should be filtered out, since there's no way they could survive that long

[frank stratus]

so like, MEE6? god no

[teal ibex]

the problem with points and hierarchical systems like that is people would behave well until they reach the threshold they desire and then would be free of their inhibitions

[keen geyser]

^

[teal ibex]

so i could act all cordial and then let loose my true intentions because in actuality i really just wanted to be fab's best friend forever in the dev questions channel

and because me wanting to be fab's best friend forever isn't inherently against any rules it'd be an uncomfortable mess for moderators to deal with

[frank stratus]

that does remind me...the servers i'm in with leveling systems are usually more chaotic than ones that don't have leveling

[teal ibex]

that's the issue with socially motivated hierarchies, they can be abused just like anything else and sometimes can have the exact opposite effect of what they're trying to accomplish

[gusty geode]

Would probably be less strain on the devs than manually awarding roles

[teal ibex]

on the forefront, yes

overall, it's complicated

[lost agate]

Less strain on devs is flat out not having the chat but y'know

[gusty geode]

Having read the rules on how to get cool dude
Can we get a semi-cool dude for people recognized as ok by anyone on the staff
I've been here like 2 years, for most of which I'd like to think I fit the bill
I just rarely got to be in the same room as Fab

[sand umbra]

#1 way to get Cool Dude:

never actually care about getting Cool Dude

just don't focus on it, do right by other people, and don't be me

[lost agate]

You dont have to be talking to fab to get cool dude

It is also staff decision

Time doesnt ensure getting CD

[sand umbra]

but being a good person generally will

[teal ibex]

cool dude isn't an achievement that you can just earn, really

it's a token of recognition moreso than anything else

[sand umbra]

seriously, there's a reason I don't have it and likely never will

but like. it's absolutely not something you should focus on or try to earn

because that won't make it happen faster

[teal ibex]

thinking of it as something you should be entitled to for behaving well will just drive you bonkers

[sand umbra]

mhm

[gusty geode]

Fair enough

[void kelp]

sometimes CD feels random

[teal ibex]

it is

[void kelp]

but always like deserved in a sense?

[teal ibex]

it's very much impulsive in who receives it and when

[void kelp]

like a lot of the people are basically just “hey this person is pretty chill”

[sand umbra]

'tis why trying to focus on it or see it as an achievement to work towards will ultimately end with madness and misery for all parties involved

[gusty geode]

Hm

[void kelp]

yeah, I’ve definitely noticed that with my own weird ego reactions and it really is bad

[teal ibex]

think of it this way

if you believe that you deserve to be recognized for behaving well and that you should be bestowed with some reward, doesn't that seem backwards?

should the reward suggest the good behavior, and not the other way around?

[void kelp]

eeyup. it’s the strangest thing to be cognizant of an irrational thought and feeling

[gusty geode]

Yeah, I get all that
Issue to me is getting noticed moreso than proving you're worthy

[teal ibex]

if you wish to be noticed by the devs, do something that warrants their attention

and hopefully make it a positive thing

[lost agate]

Getting noticed is far from a problem

[void kelp]

I was about to say, I don’t think pinging fab and saying something mean and dumb is the right sort of attention you’re thinking of

[lost agate]

Theres a crap ton of mods and devs juat lurking or talking

[teal ibex]

well warrants and demands are two different things

pinging is demanding attention, making a good suggestion for example is warranting of it

if i say shucks is pretty he certainly won't be notified of it, nor have to look at it, but maybe he'll blush.

[lost agate]

No u

[sand umbra]

w

[teal ibex]

[sand umbra]

you're both pretty cool

iirc

[queen delta]

bruh get a room you two

[teal ibex]

[lost agate]

Goat dance

[teal ibex]

[sand umbra]

[lost agate]

Anywho offtopic much

[teal ibex]

JUST alittle bit

[void kelp]

I suggest the cute goat emotes become part of calamain

[teal ibex]

THEY'RE SHEEP

but this is actually offtopic i don't want to be baaned haha sheep joke haha

[elder mist]

also

--oh shucks already cleared the talk

woops never mind, carry on

[sand umbra]

so anyway about Stardust Cells and their debuff

[lost agate]

oh right thats considered minimodding, woop

[placid moth]

stardust cells what

[sand umbra]

I don't have a witty starter for this one but:
Move the Sand Sharknado Staff somewhere different in progression, buffing or nerfing it to reflect wherever it lands thereafter, and buff the Tempest Staff accordingly.

❔
To give some separation between these two weapons. Also to give the Tempest Staff in particular some more use on its own merit, as currently it is never used over the more powerful Sand Sharknado Staff of the same tier.

[placid moth]

Yes, that's how upgrades are supposed to work

[sand umbra]

the Lazinator sugg sequel nobody asked for

[gaunt karma]

I disagree with that, there's so many examples of a weapon being almost immedietly upgraded. IE Handgun from dungeon into Hell pistol or whatever its called

[lost agate]

I was thinking post LC with solar and stardust fragments or smth

[placid moth]

Although, it's a pity how Tempest never sees usage

[lost agate]

Dunno if thats enough separation

Sandnado does what tempest doesnt do

[sand umbra]

I...honestly am not sure

[lost agate]

An actual fast summon

[sand umbra]

the Sand Sharknado Staff in particular is in a...very awkward spot right now

on one hand, it is extremely good and is a very useful option going into LC and the Lunar Events

[placid moth]

If the player makes an effort to get it right after Plant, Post-Plant is a breeze

[sand umbra]

...but on the other hand, the nature of it being an immediate upgrade means Tempest Staff is worthless and so the issue still remains, it's just worked around with a straight better weapon

[lost agate]

Its good on ML and deus afaik

[gaunt karma]

A lot of stuff gets instantly upgraded though

[sand umbra]

yes

and that's not really. great

at least, in my opinion

[lost agate]

Theres only like 3 instant upgrades rn iirc

[gaunt karma]

I don't understand why exactly Tempest Staff should be on the chopping block

[lost agate]

Unless im missing some

[placid moth]

How do you remember

3 is so specific

[lost agate]

"like"

"unless im missing some"

[placid moth]

I can't recall a single one on the spot

[lost agate]

Sandnado is one

[void kelp]

Phoenix handgun, if you sequence break I guess?

[sand umbra]

...that isn't really sequence breaking

[placid moth]

Do people use that for WoF anyway

[sand umbra]

Handgun is the Dungeon ranged wep

[radiant meadow]

yes

phoenix blaster is epic

[sand umbra]

Phoenix Blaster is literally crafted with just that and Hellstone Bars

[void kelp]

ah shit

ok nvm that’s not an instant upgrade technically

[sand umbra]

and the latter blows the former out of the fucking water iirc

[radiant meadow]

conclave crossfire, sand sharknado staff, lazinator, phoenix blaster

[lost agate]

Night edge is technically an instant upgrade to murasama

[sand umbra]

ye

[void kelp]

muramasa

[radiant meadow]

dungeon chest weapons are a joke

[lost agate]

Shush

[radiant meadow]

valor? you mean cascade

[sand umbra]

Chadscade makes Valor completely irrelevant

[radiant meadow]

magic missile is only relevant because it crafts into like 3 other weapons

[sand umbra]

honestly

Dungeon Gold Chest weapons are rarely ever useful on their own merit

and that bothers me

[placid moth]

Magic Missile has zero reason to exist

except as a crafting ingredient

[radiant meadow]

gold chest weapons are just night's/bloody edge component, shadow key, cobalt shield, and future ingredients

[hallow kraken]

handgun only exists for phoenix

that sucks

[sand umbra]

is this the part where I sugg making Handgun more relevant in any capacity or

[lost agate]

That can be done really

Not with phoenix blaster

Also how does post provi sandnado sound?

[sand umbra]

ooo, that could work

[hallow kraken]

but what sucks ever more is that despite being buffed by calamity, the crystal vile shard can be upgraded immediately into a better weapon

And that sounds interesting

[sand umbra]

post-Provi actually experiences something of a drought for summoner options too

[placid moth]

if you have the vanilla wep buff mod it might change

[sand umbra]

that is literally perfect

[hallow kraken]

Though to be fair, calamity lacks lunar pillar summoner weapons unless you count HoTE

[lost agate]

When in doubt, post provi

[sand umbra]

(seriously, you only get Axes and Stardust Dumbfuck ft. a sentry nobody uses until Signus, it's absurd)

[lost agate]

You get the accesory but an actual summon wouldnt hurt

[sand umbra]

byeah

[lost agate]

You gonna suggest it?

[hallow kraken]

Who’ll do the honor

[sand umbra]

let's do this shit

[radiant meadow]

so basically gss weapons are 5 post plant and 1 post prov?

[sand umbra]

I mean it's already pretty far separate from the other GSS weapons

(consider that S3 is post-Duke, which is around LC in intended progression, while every other Grand Scale wep is post-Plantera directly)

[lost agate]

I mean it could be post plant as a downgrade.... Thats superior in everything except dps

[sand umbra]

e

I have done the thing

not sure if I should remove the mention of post-Provi specifically from the sugg, there were a good few points brought up in here that would mark it as a good spot but also like

specificity might be bad?

sugg rules are getting confusing to me at this point

[lost agate]

Thats honestly just giving an idea of what tier would work

[sand umbra]

that's true

[grim tusk]

Should Spear of Paleolith be nerfed and buffing other pre-mech weapons be buffed to give more rogue variety (not sure if kelvin catalyst could receive a change, probably its ice shards could have a slight damage increase to make more worthwhile to get since farming cryogen for 10% drop is tedious, but I don’t know)?

And stormfront razor definitely needs a buff, it’s post mech and I find it less powerful than some pre-mech weapons

[foggy plover]

tbh I found most post mech boss (every item using hallowed) rogue weapons to be quite underwhelming

[grim tusk]

Yeah, pre mech and post mech rouge needs buff (except spear of Paleolith)

Something else that could be done is that spear of Paleolith is moved to post mech, (adding 5 hallowed bars to its recipe) and increasing its damage very slightly

And some post mech weapons also need buff (seriously, Calamitas is hard)

[lost agate]

No im not touching kelvin

[worthy fiber]

A lot of accessories are missing vanity

Though I'm sure if sprites were submitted they'd be implemented

[grim tusk]

Probably the best option for pre mech is buffing every rouge weapon (except kelvin and palelith) and every post mech/pre plantera/calamitas weapon needs a buff

[foggy plover]

prismalline is fine rn

[grim tusk]

Prismaline probably 5 more damage

[lost agate]

Nah

Then prismalline is gonna be the one needing a nerf

[grim tusk]

Wait what

[lost agate]

And theres no way we are buffing brimblade

[grim tusk]

Yeah brimblade is fine

[foggy plover]

I used prismalline to get kelvin from cryo then just used kelvin till post cal

other stuff was about as good, but not as easy to use as kelvin

[grim tusk]

Paleolith is just trow it upwards, (or sideways against worms)

Kelvin could be moved to post mech but remains unchanged

Probably even to post cal (but buffed accordingly)

Terror talons could use a buff, and more rouge chlorophyte items?

[foggy plover]

terror talons are pretty good

[lost agate]

Kelvin stays where it is

Its a patreon item

[sand umbra]

yeah Kelv Cat is a patron item

[lost agate]

And again

Im not touching kelvin

[sand umbra]

Destroyer just needs a better Paleolith fossil shard resist tbf ngl iirc imo

[gusty geode]

How the hell does melee get memed about having too many options and have only one option for SCal
And it's locked behind Rev but that's a whole other problem I don't feel like getting into tonight

[lost agate]

only one option for scal

[sand umbra]

the keyword here is true

[lost agate]

Wat

[sand umbra]

true melee has only one option that functions

[gusty geode]

Shit right

[sand umbra]

melee as a class has like 6

[steel raptor]

None of which are true melee tho

[gusty geode]

Mb
I'm slightly sick

[lost agate]

True melee will likely never work for scal

[sand umbra]

just. by her very nature

[steel raptor]

that's the problem tho

[sand umbra]

which I find really unfortunate given how hard Calamity tries to make true melee relevant

[steel raptor]

^

[sand umbra]

[lost agate]

By making it hit hard

But its still just kamize the subclass

[steel raptor]

more range

[sand umbra]

fungal symbimeme hours

[lost agate]

The whole point of true melee is the lack of range

[steel raptor]

Then again, Scal always locks too far from the player

same with her brothers

[queen delta]

if scal shot out supreme life seekers occassionally for the whole fight, true melee would be more possible

[steel raptor]

^

[queen delta]

hit life seekers, the on-hit effects target scal

[steel raptor]

but it likely won't happen

[lost agate]

That sounds like a mess of projectiles

[gusty geode]

Had an idea I was able to recover recently that could make true melee work
But it might be labelled a rework/new class idk

[umbral mulch]

Also sounds like the chicken cannon would do a little lot of damage

[steel raptor]

it could be another attack pattern if that becomes a thing

[gusty geode]

Basically
It's Shield of Cthulhu
The class
You run, build up speed, and ram into enemies to deal damage and cause extra effects

[frank stratus]

[lost agate]

that barely solves the kamikaze/low range problem

[sand umbra]

the big thing of it is that many bosses simply aren't designed around the idea that getting up close and personal should be a viable option
Terraria as a game very heavily favors the "attack from a distance while dodging projectiles" sort of approach on a base level and Calamity amplifies this tenfold with how its bosses work

[gusty geode]

You could gain i-frames upon impact to give you time to escape

[steel raptor]

true melee versus scal is like vanilla summoner versus fishron except in true melee's case it is much worse

[sand umbra]

we don't talk about vanilla summoner vs. Duke

[lost agate]

why would you escape

[sand umbra]

[lost agate]

if you need to hit stuff

and too long i frames would just be abused to high hell by other classes

anyway, there goes another suggestion about true melee scal

[gusty geode]

It would have to be tied to special accessories
That make it so contact with an enemy while moving above a certain speed made you take no/less damage and gain extra i-frames
So you'd have to give up a slot to pull it off

[lost agate]

thats still abusable

[steel raptor]

Or maybe Scal and her brothers should take slightly more time to adjust to their locked positions when the player moves towards them so the player could possibly strike them

[lost agate]

or could accidentally run into scal or get shot at point blank while dodging

[steel raptor]

there's already an indicator on scal for when she is about to charge

[lost agate]

im not talking about charging

[steel raptor]

do scal's projectiles spawn right in from of her rather than slightly beneath her?

is that the problem?

[lost agate]

even if they dont thats like a split second or less to get away

and now that you mention it, charges would also be harder to dodge

given they already get barely dodged sometimes with how scal is atm

unless youre using jelly bean

i had several times where getting stopped by a platform for a small moment was enough to make me eat a charge

[steel raptor]

the lack of range for true melee is a bit much when it comes to the last boss of the game (or at least until draedon and yharim come out)

as you progress the amount of range true melee can get increases more and more

based on true melee's weapons

[grim tusk]

Going back to what I said previously, the unly viable weapons that I find against calamitas as rogue are kelvin and brim blade, should there be other viable post mech weapons against cal? edit: just tested it, and these were the weapons I used to kill Cal clone due to their better dps than other weapons available till that point

[steel raptor]

dragon pow without the projectiles that come from it would basically be true melee

if cosmic discharge had the same reach as dragon pow it would be usable as true melee

the only thing with cosmic discharge is that it shares the exact same range as solar eruption and nebulash and thus there would have to be a different weapon that isn't like cosmic discharge but more similar to dragon pow but without the dragon flare dust projectiles

Cosmic Discharge has a 32 tile reach, whereas Dragon Pow has a reach of 50 tiles.

There can just be a weapon with a range right in the middle of those two

Just something to consider.

[hearty yew]

@steel raptor Q: Do Dragon Pow or a fixed Oracle count?

[sand umbra]

I mean, DP shoots extra projectiles and Oracle is a yo-yo

[civic pond]

Dragon pow has projectiles afaik

ae

[sand umbra]

hi doge

[civic pond]

hello

[queen sail]

Pow has projectiles

Oracle, well

Varies

[civic pond]

yo-yo's were never counted as true meme in the first place

[sand umbra]

I don't need to explain why Oracle doesn't count, methinks

byeah

[queen sail]

Like maybe you can reach the brothers but you may just have a shitty resolution

[sand umbra]

df you mean maybe--

[hearty yew]

Oracle has projectiles technically but they go like five feet.

Alright. So you want a sword that's 100 feet long just to hit scal with?

[queen sail]

Some people have resolutions that let them hit the brothers with oracle

I don’t, personally

[sand umbra]

I think what might work is like
a simpler flail around that tier

[civic pond]

im pretty happy with actually

[sand umbra]

some simpler Auric-/Exo-tier weps in general would be nice tbf

[queen delta]

or we can just forget about true melee since it doesnt need to be viable at every tier

[civic pond]

that too

[queen sail]

I mean it’s like thomas said p much

[queen delta]

its a subclass, and like most other subclasses, they arent viable at every tier

[civic pond]

cal isn't meant to be catered around that one weapon type

[queen sail]

This game has barely any variety in combat apart from “attack from a distance”

[civic pond]

[sand umbra]

Calamity tries very hard to make it relevant though
like, seriously hard

so like

[queen delta]

That flaw falls under the base game itself

[sand umbra]

also the lack of combat variety is really an innate Terraria issue, yeah

[queen sail]

Only thing is Calamity tries remedying true melee sometimes

[queen delta]

And while we could fix the flaw, it'd be preferable if we focused on other stuff first

[sand umbra]

Terraria in and of itself has very few actual combat mechanics

[queen sail]

See DoG lore item bass boosting true melee dmg as much as an Odd Mushroom

There’s a lot of potential that can come out of Terraria that’s never taken because, well

It has no idea where it’s going, usually

[sand umbra]

part of me hopes that 1.4 will bring some new mechanics to the table, or at least the improved codebase will ease the process of adding some

[queen sail]

well there is that golfing mechanic

[sand umbra]

~~golf is not a combat mechanic

yet~~

[cobalt rose]

a golf club that doubles as a melee weapon called "The Happy Gilmore"

[queen delta]

if you want, i could post a pic of what 2nd cocoon looks like

for those who may not know

[swift wadi]

Might help your case tbh

[queen delta]

So I looked back in the footage and it seems like the vid makes the cocoon phase easier than it looks

[wary flume]

Provi is kinda easy compared to other things imo

[cobalt rose]

he's talking about provi in Boss Rush.

[queen delta]

here

[tepid root]

yeah that looks like it can get unfair

[fervent citrus]

Yet u still managed to nohit boss rush before

[sand umbra]

doable and fair are two very different things

[versed mica]

nobody has no hit the new br

[sand umbra]

also that

[queen delta]

BR provi was easier in the old BR

new provi now spawns crystal in 2nd cocoon no matter what

but old BR provi was still very challenging

[fervent citrus]

I cant even get past the Destroyer

[unique vector]

@queen delta technically you could have sent your suggestion as feedback for testing smh

[swift wadi]

Lmao

[queen delta]

good point

[tepid root]

[frail mantle]

that sounds more like a bug report than a suggestion

[rapid pivot]

Thoughts on this?

Replace Xeroc Pitchfork/Rogue Consumables in general's chance to be recovered after pickup with a chance of not being consumed.

❔ : Because, really, if you're using these sorts of weapons a lot, it just becomes a giant mess, and in boss fights where there's a lot of projectiles around, the last thing you need is more entities making the game lag.

[teal ibex]

i think it's an identity thing tbh

you didn't really "throw" it if you didn't consume it

that being said, it does give me a separate idea along the lines of Have Rogue thrown weapons at a certain tier and above return to the player when dropped as an item

or something like that?

that way you keep the identity without having as much of a clutter issue

[rapid pivot]

Ye, because like... i'unno, am I crazy for thinking Rogue weapons that are consumables just aren't gonna be used as often because they're consumable?

I know that the nanosecond I got the option to use something that wasn't consumable in the early-game, I did.

like, i wouldn't mind even having no consumables at all, and just bumping the price of them up a bit

it feels like since they're consumable, they have to be cheap, and if they're cheap, you can't really give them any neat gimmicks

[teal ibex]

you're not crazy but i will say that i personally actually like the clutter because i find it really amusing

[rapid pivot]

ye, plus like

[teal ibex]

i've used xeroc pitchforks before and lowkey had a blast seeing them pile up in my moonlord skybridge

[rapid pivot]

Ranger doesn't have this problem because their ammo can be like that, because the bow/gun/rocket/whatever is the actual weapon