I added tenebris there for next update
#suggestions-discussion
oak meteor
is there a period of time where suggestion get approved or not
like after a month can it not be approved even after 90votes
oak meteor
oh cool
queen delta
Like for example, a suggestion asking to buff true ark of the ancients, but then a new update reworks it
quick ice
the Flounder could drop Sulphurous Sand since it isn't renewable before Aquatic Scourge
since it, you know, lays on the sand and presumably buries itself in it
teal ibex
suggestions are supposed to be approved or rejected within 48 hours of being sent, but if there is no opinion or a neutral opinion it wont get marked. theres technically not cutoff for being sent but im not going back a year to check stuff 
quick ice
just curious, are we allowed to make suggestions asking for something to be removed?
karmic stone
I mean, the recent sugg about removing Armored Diggers was discussed as normally iirc
queen delta
yeah they're allowed
quick ice
Awesome
teal ibex
allowed but pretty unlikely to be approved afaik
quick ice
understandable, I added a think about reworking the enemy I want removed since it's completely pointless and overshadowed by a vanilla enemy with better AI in the same biome
quick ice
anything that makes it more unique would be good
but yeah since it is a Box Jellyfish, some sort of a Poison effect would be interesting
teal ibex
actually speaking of suggestions, one moment š
quick ice
it could also be moved over to the Sulphurous Sea, since that is the toxic-ocean biome and there isn't a Jellyfish there yet
oak meteor
aww man the crab pot is never gonne be approved
teal ibex
it's actually already approved, it's just that nobody's gone back around to mark some of them.
gusty geode
Hot take:
An enemy can exist for no reason than to inconvenience the player
That's the entire concept of an enemy
hollow shell
In that case, make it more of a threat
teal ibex
not wrong but the two listed aren't even capable of doing that
they literally just die LOL
hollow shell
m
queen sail
Box Jellyfish is a reskinned Normal Mode jellyfish and Giant Squid is free resources
Either way they donāt hinder the player in any meaningful way
At all
gusty geode
Yeah
Box Jellyfish one was complaining that it didn't have a drop
I just wanted to make it clear that an enemy doesn't need a useful drop to exist
queen sail
Honestly I care more about the squid because itās a big enemy in Layer 2 and this issue has been prevalent ever since the Abyss was released
hollow shell
I suppose one thing that Box Jellyfish have going for them over normal jellyfish is
better stealth
They don't glow.
gusty geode
Box Jelly could be given Glowsticks like every other version of it
Maybe even Spelunker's to make them more unique
But outside of that I think they're fine
zealous ridge
Hey I uhhh have a suggestion that I donāt know if itās been suggested before
hollow shell
do tell
zealous ridge
Polish boss fight aesthetics, especially in the Post-Moon Lord phase, in order to make these fights more visually spectacular.
Why and how would polish be added?
The bosses in this mod, especially late game fights, can be quite exciting but still lacking in a lot of polish. Adding on to each fightās mood by applying supplemental elements would improve the overall quality of the mod. For instance, take the Providence fight. Not only is the yellow background somewhat uninteresting, some even consider it distracting, making it harder to see Providenceās flame attacks. Imagine if this yellow backdrop was toned down, in favor of a more detailed background. Think about what it would be like if you saw the entire background razed by walls of fire or hell dotted with floating profaned crystals. It would be really interesting, and furthermore, would help tone down the inflated difficulty of these fights due to coloring problems.
The actual sprite work might be a lot, and doing this for every boss would be even more difficult. But, I think that polish should be considered in such a high quality-controlled mod.
hollow shell
Yeah, kinda
Last month
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/646321284644601876
You can still post it for bluechecking if you want
zealous ridge
I see
I will hold off for now, might make a few edits for quality control before posting for a bluecheck
hollow shell
Aighty
zealous ridge
Really all I wanted to know was that if there was dev interest
quick ice
My suggestion was complaining about the lack of purpose to the enemy and the bland AI, I can add more emphasis that itās a completely negligible threat
the enemy as a whole is worse than the Pink Jelly in all but stealth factor, which isn't important since it dies so fast and doesn't have the damage to be a real threat
gusty geode
Adding a wall variant of SCal's arena block would be neat
So it looks like you're trapped inside a complete cube instead of a square
quick ice
the Arena is just meant to limit your mobility, and isn't meant to be considered "Real" in that you're really trapped in a physical object iirc
plus, doing so would make it harder to remove which would be annoying to code
hollow shell
Eh, not really
Just give the walls the same code as the blocks
They delete when the player is near and SCal isn't alive
gusty geode
Does that mean a maze layout for the arena is a possibility
hollow shell
No, we're not Elemental Unleash
queen sail
rapid pivot
What do you all think of this suggestion?
Make the Profaned Core non-consumable by default.
ā The non-consumable version of the Profaned Core can not only be crafted before defeating Providence, it could probably be crafted the moment you beat the Guardians; 50 profaned essence is not unreasonable to have at that point of the game, as you needed to grab 15 of it for the guardians anyway, and it's useful for ammo/potions. Therefore, the consumable version doesn't seem to have a good reason to exist.
fervent citrus
i think i heard this before, good suggestion tho
fervent citrus
ye
rapid pivot
eeeeh
i think that one didn't make it because it focused on the 'don't wanna farm 50 essence' bit
people are gonna do that; imo, my issue is that people have almost assuredly already done that by the point they get the consumable version
teal ibex
the main issue with it, and the only reason i haven't suggested it yet, is that unholy essence barely has a usage as a material to begin with
so nerfing away this recipe makes it even less relevant than ever before
teal ibex
you have named two primary uses for it
rapid pivot
the rune of kos too
teal ibex
drops from providence anyway
rapid pivot
supreme healing pots
teal ibex
it's used in ammo, pots, and a few weapons
rapid pivot
and the elderberry; while sure, it doesn't have a ton of recipes, they're ones you're gonna use a lot
teal ibex
and most of the recipes are very minimally demanding
this isn't to say that i disagree with the suggestion tho, just pointing out that there is a slight negative repercussion to it as well
radiant meadow
it used to go in uelibloom bars
rapid pivot
fair enough
radiant meadow
add it to auric bar and call it a day
although divine geodes would actually be a the better auric bar component
fervent citrus
maybe it would be nice if there were more recipes, although making up some is a lot of pain
radiant meadow
maybe
actually since auric bar uses phantoplasm instead of ruinous souls, maybe not
rapid pivot
hm
y'know, I don't see any melee weapons that use it
maybe something neat could be done with the Dart stuff?
fervent citrus
perhaps
cloud surge
@rapid pivot I think someone suggested that a while ago
But honestly it's a really good sugg imo
cloud surge
Grinding to make it non-consumable is just dumb
rapid pivot
crap, does that violate the repost rules?
cloud surge
I think it'd just get blue checked
rapid pivot
nah, my issue isn't really with the grind; after all, profaned ammo exists
therefore you're grinding anyway
my issue is that it's basically a redundant item
cloud surge
I have Luiafk so enemy spawns aren't a problem and the grind is just a minute anyway but that's why I think core should be already non-consumable
gusty geode
Wouldn't making the non-consumable version post-Prov also work
rapid pivot
It could, but then you run into the problem of having to kill the guardians every time.
Which would get boring.
hollow shell
Because of that reason, yes
cloud surge
Getting the essence for the non-consumable is just a redundant mini grind
gusty geode
Then
Make the consumable version craftable/sold post-Prov
rapid pivot
why would it need to exist
if you have the non-consumable, why bother with the consumable?
cloud surge
A lot of people have trouble with Providence and might not notice it can be made non-consumable
gusty geode
Non-consumable could just have a recipe you gotta work for more
You either grind a little bit for each summon using the consumable
Or grind a lot once for the non-consumable
rapid pivot
hmm
sand umbra
ladies and gentlemen
the reason having two versions of the same goddamn boss summon is a horrible idea
rapid pivot
20 Unholy Essence, a Core of Calamity, and 3 of each Core type?
cloud surge
Pretty much every other boss in post-ml (except birb but they don't count) is only non-consumable
gusty geode
Yharon I can understand since you're gonna fight him more than once whether you grind him or not
But why are the others non-consumable anyway
rapid pivot
The issue with Providence's summon is that you can't craft it.
You get it by fighting a boss.
cloud surge
Because DoG is fought several times to get enough cosmilite
And scal takes a lot of attempts usually
rapid pivot
Scal takes anywhere from 7 to 35-ish attempts, going off my own experience as a... meh-average player.
(gets a lot easier the second time)
cloud surge
Providence is the only big boy boss in post-ml where you initially have the consumable boss summon
Grinding so that you don't have to grind is terrible
gusty geode
SCal, sure
But DoG's issue can be solved the same way Prov can
An alternative, significantly cheaper crafting recipe for post-the boss
Like
3-5 Cosmolite Bars for another worm
queen sail
In the end, it always shows that people donāt care about the Profaned Guardians
void kelp
doesnāt the polt summon require some grinding too?
cloud surge
Slime god using purified gel makes sense because that's what he's made of (I think)
void kelp
I suppose the way to make it consistent would be to make the provi summon more expensive to make + nonconsumable?
queen sail
rapid pivot
imo the guardians are fine; people just don't wanna fight one boss repeatedly just to get a chance at fighting another boss
cloud surge
And there's no way to get his summon pre-polter
gusty geode
I would have the consumable use a small amount of Divine Geodes
And the non-consumable be made of however many consumables
void kelp
other way around?
cloud surge
Well it needs 100 phanto which is hard to get from 30 phantoms
cloud surge
Provi non-consumable used to need a profaned core and divine geodes and I hated it
Unholy essence is better but having a consumable and non-consumable is unnecessary
gusty geode
It makes sense tho
Have a non-consumable version of a boss not be available until after the boss is defeated
And even then have it be really expensive
Make the player invest in it
cloud surge
The problem is that most new players take many attempts to beat provi
gritty flower
That ones been suggested iirc
cloud surge
I used to watch a streamer that just gave up on provi
tired haven
Having to waste additional 2 minutes per prov attempt fighting guards was horrific
gusty geode
Isn't that the point of an end-game boss
To be ridiculously challenging
And if it's too hard for that point to be valid
Nerf the boss rather than remove any work the player would need to do for another shot
rapid pivot
That's the problem, though.
tired haven
Challenging =/= tedious
rapid pivot
exactly what I was about to say
sand umbra
also Provi is far from endgame
gusty geode
Late-game, yeah
Point still stands
tired haven
Gotta love those times when cosmic worm, dragon egg and eye of extinction were consumable and without a second thought I just started cheating them in after 5th failed DoG
rapid pivot
it's another thing to have to go through a boss fight every time you even want to take a crack at a challenging boss
tepid root
old eye of extinction recipe iirc
rapid pivot
you want to make a boss challenging, too; but you don't wanna make it frustrating
queen sail
Or obnoxious
rapid pivot
challenging implies that it's a legitimate test of the player's ability
gritty flower
Old EoE recipe was just the EoD but without the Auric Bars existence
rapid pivot
testing a player's ability to fight the exact same boss repeatedly is not 'challenging'
gusty geode
Ok, new idea
New material that drops from Profaned enemies post-Guardians
And make the consumable Prov summon from that
gusty geode
It adds pressure to the player to make every attempt count
tepid root
no it just makes the player's life tedious and annoying
queen sail
Make them Atlases basically
tepid root
why do people not like non consumable boss summons, its just for the sake of convenience :/
void kelp
honestly make the suggestion to be like āfor consistency with the other post-ML bosses and ease on the playersā
tired haven
made me wonder how dumb it would be to make enemies drop divine geodes in smol amounts post-guardians pre-prov and make prov drop hundreds to compensate, with recipes also taking a lot now, which adds the alternative route for doubtful players 
gusty geode
With consumable summons
Every one you have is like a life
You have a finite amount of lives to beat the boss before you gotta go get more through grinding
Non-consumable summons mean infinite lives
queen sail
Sounds like meme
tired haven
Indeed
potent veldt
It's just generally dumb to have both a consumable option and a nonconsumable option, regardless of which one you think should be the default.
tepid root
tbh yeah ^
runic heath
Yeah and given that the late game bosses can take 50+ attempts (I can testify, because Iām bad) having to grind becomes tedious not challenging
You already have to grind for potions anyways
potent veldt
^^^
tepid root
gusty geode
There's no pressure on the player to win aside from not being able to progress
You can try as many times as you want
No real punishment for failure
potent veldt
I personally think that it should be nonconsumable because you are actually expected to lowkey fight prov twice.
rapid pivot
erm
potent veldt
You're expected to do so.
rapid pivot
yes there is
runic heath
Well progression is the general goal
rapid pivot
as you just stated; consumable adds a consequence for losing, of 'having' to go grind more
gusty geode
Not progressing isn't a punishment
You lose a few minutes
tired haven
If you want punishment for failure you can go play hardcore or lives mod 
rapid pivot
given calamity's nature as a challenge mod; a few minutes per attempt can really stack up
potent veldt
It also breaks intensity for the boss fight lol
"Oh shit, I lost, better go to hell and grind these enemies"
potent veldt
Rather than a boss like DoG where it's "Oh shit, I lost, better try again"
tepid root
i mean i just cheat in boss summons anyways if ive crafted them once and they're consumable lol
runic heath
^
tired haven
Unrelated example time:
Rogue Legacy has special versions of bosses, but also gives you infinite attempts during these
Can we just consider postml special?
potent veldt
Yes
runic heath
Yes
runic heath
Not everyone wants to play fargo
queen sail
tepid root
quick question, why is eye of desolation the only hardmode boss summon thats non consumable, aside from starcore
queen sail
Dunno
tired haven
I mean, might as well buy most summons from calamity then, after win 
runic heath
It used to be consumable too
tepid root
yea
potent veldt
How I see it is that all of preHM and HM is about skill and dedication to the grind. Those two parts have a lot of grinding because that's your way of gaining power.
PostML no longer requires you to prove you're dedicated by grinding. You made it that far, so you are very obviously dedicated. So now it's about your skill in how you can beat bosses.
So preHM and HM should have consumable boss summons. PostML has no real reason to other than inconvenience.
rapid pivot
And then there's the fact that Post-ML requires far, far more complex arenas.
(or, if not complex, certainly ones with more effort put into them; like, say, the dungeon arena.)
gusty geode
You know, on that topic
It feels like people don't like boss fights where the player isn't the one in control
ML, for example, was designed so the player was in front of it, with the arms on either side of it
But I never see anyone fight it like that
cloud surge
Because they made him outrunable
Also time is a good enough punishment for failure, not everyone can play all day and all night
cloud surge
And nerfing the boss because the summoner is tedious to get is terrible
tired haven
tbh I don't like to stay in ML center because this way he lands bolts attack everytime + phantasmal eye rain but yeah, that's for sure
Skeletron fights are partially horrific due to that the skull always gonna pin you
rapid pivot
also; because that's just, like, a bad way to fight the moon lord
gusty geode
Wanna say that in some cases the player wasted their own time
Since it's their fault if they were undergeared or had an arena problem
But even I can see that's a stretch
rapid pivot
how many times are you gonna get hit that way
and like,y eah, sure, players waste their own time
tired haven
1, if you are ningishu
If not, then a lot
rapid pivot
But that's fine; you just don't wanna make the game waste the player's time.
cloud surge
Also the deathray would be harder to dodge , almost need RoD of you stay in the hands
tepid root
ml is a clusterfuck in vanilla, i dont know if its even possible to nohit him while being between his hands
cloud surge
It's probably not
rapid pivot
RoD is basically required for everything anyway
tired haven
It probably is possible but just like ragnarok nobody is gonna try
tepid root
rag nohit
gusty geode
Keep in mind that vanilla ML wasn't built with nohitting in mind
tepid root
big brain moment
rapid pivot
erm, wat
no boss is built with no-hitting in mind
that's the whole point; you have to be good to pull it off
cloud surge
If it was built for no hitting it would be one shot
tepid root
bosses are supposed to be fair
gusty geode
Aren't bosses always verified to be nohittable before they're released publicly
Believe I heard that was something that happened
tepid root
yikes
queen sail
Probably a bit far of a take :preech:
tired haven
What are these sentences
Boss can be made for nohits while also being harder that way, look at providence
And if the boss can be nohitted it doesn't mean lots of oneshot attacks would be justified
Also no idea if relogic tests that tbh
Calamity didn't, it just came by a fluke
rapid pivot
if that's the case, I don't think it's intentional
queen sail
But regardless you can tell that there was more of a focus on presentation than execution with ml in vanilla
gusty geode
Imo confirming something is possible before you let people try takes away from the challenge
runic heath
I would say that just because someone doesnāt have a good arena doesnāt mean they should be doubly punished. Then again I beat rev Yharon with an actively bad arena
cloud surge
Yeah new players shouldn't be punished because they don't know the best possible gear for the fight
And even if they did have the best gear provi is difficult
gusty geode
Maybe this is just me
But knowing from the beginning something can be done detracts from the accomplishment of doing it
rapid pivot
yeah, but here's the issue
queen sail
No
rapid pivot
if a boss is designed in such a way that it can't be no-hit; that's not a great boss anyway
tepid root
the thing is that said something could be literally impossible to do so the player wont be satisified in any way
tired haven
I can see the reasoning behind the possible things being less alluring, but generally if something looks impossible personally I do theoretical research first so it detracts either way 
queen sail
If you make something so hard that you donāt even know itās beatable, then nobody will probably try to be interested in beating it
tired haven
Otherwise I'd have certainly stabbed mechs with copper shortsword for a whole night only to find out I have far from needed dps
Well, dungeon guardian did interest people a lot
And look where we are, oneshotting him now
runic heath
I mean part of a challenge is to do the routing and planning before actually doing it
runic heath
I have probably spent quite a lot of time routing low% and still havenāt gone and run it
letās ignore that most of that routing hasnāt changed but w/e
tired haven
It took a whole yrimir and 15 minutes to figure that simple dogma out 
Though maybe with better mobility of 1.2+ that would be a common discovery
runic heath
I do get that doing the āimpossibleā does have a certain allure
tired haven
Proving the impossible to be possible is certainly an achievement
queen sail
But at the same time you literally have to subject yourself to meaningless torture
All for the sake of āhey this is actually possibleā
tired haven
meager lichen
Shines dont help a great deal becuase the projectiles go up first and you may not have any idea where they are coming from
I know there are alternatives to solving the problem, but just a slight tweak could do the trick
solemn flame
Thats the same for crabulon.....
meager lichen
The shrooms light up iirc
solemn flame
But not much compared to the glowing mushrooms light
void kelp
I think they mean just a slight glow
meager lichen
Thats the thing, there isnt enough light where the perforator hive is in the night
void kelp
would that become a necessary change, then?
I can see a better argument forming to want consistency during the fight, because honestly that would be why I would want it changed
meager lichen
I should probs add that then, consistency throughout the fight where there isnt anything cheap in the fight?
Added anyway, thx for your feedback btw
carmine linden
hollow shell
@supple lodge did
tepid root
drill and pickaxe subclasses, the drill subclass needs some love
quartz hare
hollow shell
#help-advice-read-pins is the channel for you
(just gonna say, Ranger Emblem probably isn't useful as a mage) :P
hollow shell
Some new people think "suggestions" means advice
ashen warren
fair enough
hollow shell
suggest equipment, etc
hallow hatch
Naw Iām just slow
hollow idol
they mean to be able to make texture packs for Calamity
tepid root
fervent citrus
Uuh
frail mantle
as in a mod that changes Calamity sprites or literally just CTP?
hollow idol
the former
frail mantle
ah
fervent citrus
U mean like a Calamity texture pack mod?
hollow idol
same reason normal texture packs exist ig
fervent citrus
Convenience?
tepid root
is this really a suggestion for the mod tho
frail mantle
cause muh Clamtitty style don't fit with vanilla terraria, maybe
tepid root
ashen warren
ok guys chill i know the reasoning
basically he wants to replace some sprites with their older versions
but that requires knowing item id, etc
versed mica
Yeah
ashen warren
so basically he wants a texture pack template
hollow idol
If it were accepted id add the one Siren sprite that got rejected because Gama prefers his
frail mantle
re-adding old content is in the Don'ts
and iirc old sprites fall under this category
hollow idol
they do, but this sug is about texture pack
hollow idol
not making the devs make an old texture pack
ashen warren
what's your opinion on flask-like buffs for other classes?
tepid root
that would invalidate stuff like golden shower or ichor bullets and make them completely useless, but i think a flask-like buff for summoner could be neat
ashen warren
i can see how it will break a lot of balance, though
tepid root
it would, yeah
ashen warren
and it doesn't really make sense for other classes except tipped arrows
hollow idol
yknow what, that reminds me
Perrenial bars can only make one magic weapon but its exclusive to crimson worlds
unless you wait 50 years for evil island crimson to spread
- everglade spray already inflicts cursed flames
tepid root
doesnt dryad sell a perf/hive summon after you beat either or am i remembering wrong
hollow idol
does she now?
ashen warren
maybe it's a functionality from one of the 10 calamity support mods
tepid root
i use none of them 
, but apparently she doesnt sell them so fuck
ashen warren
oof
sand umbra
she sells the summon of whichever one commits yesn't
tepid root
wouldnt it be a good idea to make her sell both the summons after you beat either tho
hollow idol
that's been suggested before
ashen warren
doesn't steampunker sells the solution if she is in the evil biome
sand umbra
this isn't a vanilla situation where they share a bool
tepid root
fuck
ashen warren
or am i also stupid
sand umbra
so like y
hollow idol
npcs cant live in evil biomes
sand umbra
doesn't steampunker sells the solution if she is in the evil biome
ashen warren
yeah but if a āļø gets 90+ again that's more chance
ashen warren
well technically she can be there without living there
tepid root
just use solution to make her in the evil biome
hollow idol
blood moon
vast stirrup
red solution and purple solution are bought from the steampunker during a blood moon
fervent citrus
@ashen warren give a good reason
frail mantle
it's there for a challenge
fervent citrus
Look at the format of other suggestions and try to write smth similar
If you arent sure about ur suggestion, u can discuss it here and, if approved, send the suggestion in the main chat
frail mantle
^
fervent citrus
Too bad i cant add reactions
frail mantle
in fact, you're encouraged to post suggestions here for feedback before you post them in #suggestions-voting
is this another case of ding sugg dashing
worthy raptor
what about for the people who want a version of hardcore mode that only affects bosses
they would prolly think of it as the exact opposite of pointless
frail mantle
^
worthy raptor
then there's the question of if there's any harm in it being there, which is highly unlikely
so why remove it? Doing so is pointless 
frail mantle
just because you personally don't see a use, there are most definitely people who play with the Iron Heart on
they may be few, but i can assure you that they exist
fervent citrus
I did that many times and died to EoC
ashen warren
u really think anyone can actually beat the game with iron heart on
even in normal mode
zenith hazel
if they're good at the game then it's totally possible
frail mantle
^
zenith hazel
byeah, not pointless
frail mantle
it's there for a challenge, like Death Mode or Armageddon or even Masomode
zenith hazel
who cares if they recorded it or not
frail mantle
how do you know
ashen warren
arma and death are different
frail mantle
Death mode has no rewards, it's only there for difficulty
Armageddon's only reward is giving more treasure bags than normal
zenith hazel
iron heart is for the challenge, as explained above
people also want a less brutal hardcore
zenith hazel
then what's your argument about iron heart when it's literally hardcore mode without the bullshit?
frail mantle
hardcore mode has just enough purpose as iron heart
ashen warren
nobody can beat it
zenith hazel
???
ashen warren
it just wastes ppls time
zenith hazel
what kind of point is that?
you can literally say the same about hardcore
yet people still do it because it's a challenge
it's not mandatory, it's an added challenge for people who want a different experience
ashen warren
iron heart is ok if it isnt calamity
zenith hazel
in this scenario, people would want a hardcore mode that doesn't kill you with unfairness like traps, dumb enemies, etc.
frail mantle
how is Iron Heart not okay if it's Calamity
zenith hazel
how is it impossible to beat?
frail mantle
that would be ten times worse
zenith hazel
so you'd want all the bullshit in
ashen warren
why would it be ten times worse
frail mantle
boulders, explosives, invasions, the Jungle
zenith hazel
I just explained above, people would die to bullshit like traps or enemies
ashen warren
thats not bullshit
zenith hazel
bosses, on the other hand, have patterns that you can learn
ashen warren
theyre supposed to be careful
also why would it be possible to beat scal first try at all
zenith hazel
it's definitely possible if you're good at the game
frail mantle
how is it possible to beat SCal without taking damage?
zenith hazel
furthermore, normally, you'd run into dumb scenarios like enemies overwhelming you and you die to a trap
frail mantle
by fighting the boss enough to learn her patterns
zenith hazel
can you control that? no
zenith hazel
what if you don't have a recall then?
frail mantle
sometimes you don't get time to recall
ashen warren
thats ur problem?
frail mantle
bruh
zenith hazel
how is that my problem when the game gives me unfair stuff?
hollow idol
alt f4 
ashen warren
@frail mantle ofc u can nohit scal, but nobody can do her legitimately first try
zenith hazel
my point here is that the game is unfair, especially early on, and it's not in our control
frail mantle
yes they can.
zenith hazel
killing bosses on the first try, that's definitely possible
ashen warren
no one has yet though
zenith hazel
again, you need to be good at the game
ashen warren
i mean all other bosses except scal
frail mantle
how do you know?
ashen warren
bc if someone has they would have uploaded it?
frail mantle
why would they?
zenith hazel
just because nobody has a video doesn't mean nobody's done it
ashen warren
cuz its an achievement no one has done
frail mantle
you don't know that
ashen warren
lmao
hollow idol
theres no way to prove you did scal first try ever
frail mantle
^
ashen warren
with iron heart on
radiant meadow
I don't see the point in removing this challenge option.
frail mantle
just because no one has done it, doesn't mean it's impossible
hollow idol
its not hurting anyone
zenith hazel
because not all of us have the time
we just know for a fact that beating a boss first try is possible
fervent citrus
This conversation is getting worse and worse lel
zenith hazel
you're underestimating people
frail mantle
yea this discussion is going in circles
fervent citrus
Basically thunstic, what they are saying is: You may not like the iron heart (u can trash it as soon as u get it), but other people may find it more useful. And getting rid of it is also not logical because it wont actually change much.
I hope you understand
ashen warren
you like iron heart?
worthy raptor
if he's still stubborn after that message just don't even bother from this point on
ashen warren
ofc im ok with it not being removed
but removing it will also do good for the community
frail mantle
how
fervent citrus
Good, im glad you understa- wut
tepid root
what will it do good
worthy raptor
what is it doing that's bad
ashen warren
people wont waste time just to die to a boss
fervent citrus
Ok, nvm
ashen warren
and have to restart all over
fervent citrus
They dont have to
ashen warren
k
worthy raptor
if they don't want to waste time when they die to a boss they won't turn it on
frail mantle
and?
tepid root
can you consider reading luminite ore's message thanks
zenith hazel
if people are playing iron heart, they should be fully aware of what theyāre going up against
worthy raptor
whatever, just drop it prolly, he's not gonna think about it at all so no need to keep fueling the conversation
fervent citrus
"Oh hey, w-whats dis? Looks nice! Lemme use it"
worthy raptor
brav, do you normally delete suggestions during situations like this? I don't really care either way but idk what the standard is on that stufferino
ashen warren
i deleted it myself
zenith hazel
he deleted it himself
worthy raptor
idk what the standards are for stuff like that aside from it's completely retarded, or spam, or porn
zenith hazel
maybe since it was not like it was gonna gain that much traction anyway
worthy raptor
yeye
ashen warren
wait you are telling me instead of posting porn straight into the chat channels someone has done it in sugg?
frail mantle
indeed
worthy raptor
what if you need feedback on it
hollow idol
multiple multiple times
ashen warren
wack
tepid root
bruh
ashen warren
guys sorry for disturbing and wasting ur time
fervent citrus
Its fine
ashen warren
i should have thought more
worthy raptor
it doesn't matter that much, don't worry about it
zenith hazel
anyway get back on topic
void kelp
@safe lava there is such thing as a calamity texture pack.
frail mantle
there are still some items that have Exodium Clusters in their recipes
tawny wind
Like?
frail mantle
like the Soul Artifacts and the Normality Relocator iirc
void kelp
honestly, the phrasing on your sugma is somewhat difficult to understand on a first read; rephrasing it might help out
tawny wind
Ok I delete it
ashen warren
@void kelp calamity pack only replaces vanilla items
which is the opposite of what he wants
void kelp
ah
ashen warren
basically he wants a template pack for calamity
so he can replace some cal items
lol
topaz bramble
because we need to replace calamity sprites lmao
tepid root
from reading their messages in #calamity-mod-talk , i think they want it to replace the upcoming new siren design with the current one, which, idk if thatll be even allowed
topaz bramble
besides, the new one is much better honestly
topaz bramble
she feels like an actual character now
lol
they sorta use the same aesthetic though
ashen warren
why is it not allowed though it's a local modification
it's not like gama is gonna come to your house and beat your ass
topaz bramble
yeah that's fair
tepid root
ae
ashen warren
it's his choice though
topaz bramble
maybe you can? I don't know
if you can it doesn't seem like it'd be too different from vanilla
out of curiosity though, why do you think someone would choose the old siren?
New one is more unique, has a much cleaner sprite, and has much more appealing colors
ashen warren
maybe they don't like anime tiddies 
topaz bramble
Maybe nostalgia if I had to guess?
frail mantle
i'm pretty sure you can texture pack mods
iirc there was a guy in the Art Server that made a mod which replaced some Calamity sprites
gusty grail
Thoughts ?
distant gyro
interesting
there might or might not be ranger content in literally the next update
radiant meadow
not early game iirc
but there are some free sprites available
so I can convert a scrapped rogue accessory into a ranger acc if I really want to
wait
I thought that said prehardmode up to wof
I love how I can read sometimes
in that case
wait nvm
magic quiver is cool
ye, I think it's just magic quiver and ranger emblem
willow moss
ranger pre mechanical bosses is aids
expert and rev mode
i killed destroyer but tried to fight the twins and died when the boss was on 10hp lol
ashen warren
aids as in bad or like powerful?
willow moss
bad
zenith hazel
probably using bad weapons then
ashen warren
I honestly would say ranger is good all round the whole game
zenith hazel
pre-mechs has arbalest, which is enough to carry you up till clone
willow moss
tf is arbalest
im using titanium armor with mineral mortar and stormbow
magic quiver and ranger emblem
and other good shit
literally every accessory i have is warding
zenith hazel
look it up please
willow moss
oh yeah
i was actually trying to get that one lmao
had no luck when i did pirate invasion
zenith hazel
tl;dr get better stuff
ashen warren
wat does warding have to do with bein good? imo defense is useless on anything besides melee
willow moss
helps you not get damaged?
ashen warren
honestly would go for menacing
willow moss
yeah, but skeletron beat the shit out of me for some reason
i just couldnt do enough damage
ashen warren
the gameplay aspect doesnt always need to include the lore, they are kinda seperated @fleet igloo
fleet igloo
Sure, but integrating them as much as possible makes the mod flow better
ashen warren
I'd say that being able to craft the chunks already mean you are possing a threat cuz u need to have killed the enemies there to get stardust
fleet igloo
Though killing Atlases makes you look more like a direct threat, no?
green pumice
not everyone cares about lore, nor does the game need to follow the lore
void kelp
it would make continuity sense at least
green pumice
its not a bad suggestion
but that doesnt change the fact that most people couldn't care less
rapid pivot
uh.. tbh I never summoned Deus with the Atlases
I always summoned Deus with the Starcore.
green pumice
hackerman
green pumice
by cheating
rapid pivot
nah, I know I didn't cheat
green pumice
you need deus killed to be able to get the bars
distant gyro
probably by old astral chest
rapid pivot
ye, think so
distant gyro
it was changed exactly 1 update later so you can't do thatā¢ļø
green pumice
anymoreā¢
ashen warren
translation is not simple
there are already other mods that does that not official tho @mortal oracle
frail mantle
^
ashen warren
do they have plan to do it at all tho?
ashen warren
That might be a little bit troublesome
hallow kraken
Whatās a terraria language
frail mantle
i'm assuming they mean the translations provided by vanilla Terraria
steel raptor
Google Translate exists my dude
frail mantle
~~well iirc the vanilla translations were actually done with Translate so ~~
hallow kraken
Arenāt there already several translation mods and possibly more in development
frail mantle
there are
steel raptor
yes
ashen warren
actually learning English works too
steel raptor
there's at least 3 iirc for calamity
If you live in a country whose national language isn't English but learning English is an obligation for education then your problem will be solved by your education
ashen warren
I mean ig, if u have internet and use internet for gaming and media stuff like this, u might as well learn English
green pumice
they are not official though
rapid pivot
Practically speaking; unless you did this like how Epic Battle Fantasy 5 does this, people would have to find someone able to speak both english and one of those languages.
distant gyro
I think Fab once said he'll officially allow Calamity to be translated after it is finished
don't take my word for it though
chinese translation in 2023
ashen warren
you don't even have to go out of your way to learn english anyway
the internet makes you learn
opal barn
Can always start translating the mod yourself š¤·
void kelp
localization has to be done by the people
frail mantle
Switch the Defense of Ranged and Summoner helmets of armor sets that have helmets for all classes
Reason for this suggestion: Summoner feels like it should be a class that's slightly tanky, with slightly lower average DPS than other classes in exchange for letting the player focus more on dodging than other classes. Ranged feels like it should be a class that is allowed to be further from the bosses they're fighting, in exchange for having the least endurance out of all the classes.
However, with all of the one-size-fits-all armor sets of Calamity that have class-specific helmets (or rather with most class-specific armor sets in the game, except for OOA sets), Ranged helmets have more defense than Summoner helmets. This seems like an inconsistency with the purposes of the classes. Switching the defense of Ranged helmets and Summoner helmets, and therefore making Ranged less tanky, might also help with the fact that Ranged generally feels like the strongest class throughout the game.
thoughts?
foggy plover
Makes sense, but vanilla loves ranged and thinks otherwise
gritty flower
The defense for Summoner is fine
night cradle
eh
with summoner you get easier dodging since you don't need to hold a weapon anyway
with ranger, however, dodging is lowkey harder because you need also to aim at enemies
higher defense of ranger allows them to make more mistakes, which is more likely while targetting enemies
rapid pivot
getting levels in range increases movement speed
night cradle
and summoner can watch over these projectiles, so they make less mistakes
frail mantle
yea i suppose that's true
rapid pivot
among other things
radiant meadow
The order is melee > ranged > rogue > magic > summon iirc
Not sure how most of vanilla lines up but I know Vortex has more defense than Stardust
quick ice
Vortex has more than nebula also
night cradle
I think it's because the vanilla lines them up as "the closer you need to stay onto an enemy, the more defense you need"
steel raptor
Vortex has less defense than Xeroc though
so shouldn't it be melee > rogue > ranged > magic > summoner?
But Aloe has a good point
The problem with summoner is that if you get too far away from an enemy then your summons' AI get fucked up
That's why I sometimes feel that summoner doesn't get enough defense (especially in vanilla)
But then again there is a whole event made for summoners with armor sets that have more defense but they focus more on sentries than minions
night cradle
the armor sets from the event are hybrid, so they probably retain some defense from the other added class
strong minnow
@mortal oracle there are other mods than translate calamity stuff, so just download them
radiant meadow
Xeroc is partially a relic of when it was all class
mortal oracle
as i said theres no portuguese mod
swift bison
There is an independant team making calamity localization addons iirc
hollow shell
I did see a Russian Calamity translation on the mod browser
dunno how it works but I saw it exists
swift bison
i believe the localization mods mainly work via a bunch of Addtranslation methods in globalitem, globalNPC, and GlobalProjectile classes
for more complicated things such as chat messages i'm not sure
There are russian, polish, and spanish localization mods that i've seen so far
ashen warren
Depth blade buff, nice
cobalt rose
the buff is only because it would be harder to obtain this way.
sand umbra
I mean, I can't really say I have any objections 
zealous ridge
i dont dislike it but i dont like it either
so like... for continuity i see it, but on the other hand it being a drop from enemies at all is usually not a thing i like personally
its why i personally dont like the rare item variants in their current state
cobalt rose
Well there are quite a few items that are dropped by enemies.
zealous ridge
but that's just my opinion anyways, so i doubt that reflects everyone
yeah
i dont mean items in general
i mean like... weapons and other equippables
it happens a lot in both vanilla and calamity, from what ive seen
although i do think there are exceptions in bosses and mini-bosses dropping standalone items, because those are a reward that is always granted
potent veldt
Yeah, I get that, but I also think that's just a general gaming convention
"Why the hell does this enemy randomly drop this completely unrelated weapon?"
While I can easily agree that it's overall silly for such a thing to occur, I also think it's just too general to complain about
zealous ridge
its not really continuity i have trouble with
its just that you have a random chance to get a potentially powerful or upgradable item...
i guess an example is the cross necklace
sand umbra
you also have a random chance to get the shit you use to upgrade that item
zealous ridge
like materials?
sand umbra
yes
zealous ridge
that's not true in all cases
sand umbra
I never said it was
but I will gladly point out the random enemy drop mats to you because they follow the same setup
(I do think the various "wing tokens" in vanilla are retarded, but that's for a completely different reason that I'll cover at a later time)
zealous ridge
wing tokens as in souls of flight?
sand umbra
wing tokens as in all the shit that drops
that is only used for its respective wing type
queen sail
Wing Tokens as in Ice/Bone/Fire Feathers
zealous ridge
ah
sand umbra
the various vanilla Feathers that aren't the common mat, Broken Bat Wings, Spooky Twigs, etc.
shit like the Luminite wing sets and Festive Wings are fine because they're either crafted from shit commonly used for other purposes at the tier or they're just dropped directly (respectively)
literally why not just make Harpy Wings a rare Hardmode (or even late/super-rare pre-Hardmode) Harpy drop, to give an example
zealous ridge
fair point to hold
sand umbra
it accomplishes the same fucking thing without needing a middle man
zealous ridge
i really can't say i disagree lol, it is a little annoying
sand umbra
like. THAT'S where I draw the line
mats that drop from one specific enemy and have one specific purpose, and hold no value at all past that
and which are expected to be valuable from their rarity, too
but like. enemies having functional drops, such as weapons or accessories, is fine with me
zealous ridge
so by extension, does that make weapons dropping directly from enemies more safe gameplay-wise?
sand umbra
because you can actually use them, yes
sand umbra
you're not just expected to like. make them into one thing and then endlessly trash the 50 others you have
hollow shell
(tbf, you would trash all the direct drops too once you get one)
sand umbra
(okay but like you can still actually get some use out of those even after already getting one, especially with all the upgrades Calamity adds to stuff)
odd orchid
at least give them a sell value or something. free cash is free cash dawg
hollow shell
Everything's got a sell value that ain't soil
sand umbra
(the wing tokens are actually useless aside from being mats for their respective wings)
zealous ridge
do they sell for anything? i dont remember
sand umbra
I...don't think they do? I'd have to check
zealous ridge
well that's not too bad
hollow shell
Same with Giant Harpy and Ice
odd orchid
noice.
hollow shell
And according to the wiki, the wings themselves sell for 8 gold
so if you've got 20 Souls of Flight lying around you can make around triple profit
sand umbra
I just think a lot of the wing tokens in particular could either be cucked out of drop tables outright
or given additional uses
odd orchid
how much do the souls on their own sell for
hollow shell
Not much. 2 silver per.
queen sail
I would but that would mean getting souls of flight
And iām too lazy to do that
:pensive_rick:
hollow shell
I don't really know why we're discussing this considering it's #vanilla_suggestions
I don't think it's really our place nor is it that big an issue for Calamity to completely revamp the wings crafting/drop system
It's just kind of a nitpick
zealous ridge
but alright, in any case
perhaps i misspoke when i said all weapon and standalone item drops are bad and stupid
i kind of don't have problems with the mimic drops, accessory drops, and some weapon drops
sand umbra
you don't have problems with mimic drops because they drop a bunch of important stuff
I meanwhile do have an issue with this because they drop like half a dozen fucking things
zealous ridge
at least they always reward you with something
hollow shell
you have a lot of complaints, don't you Thomas
queen sail
Shadow Mimics get generic mimic drops instead of shadow chest loot
zealous ridge
queen sail
sand umbra
yes I do, Rover
yes I do
whether anyone cares to hear 'em is another story entirely, but the point is there
zealous ridge
hey i have no problems with it as long as we don't get vindictive lmao
i like hearing what people like and don't like
odd orchid
I mean, it's at least something to talk about I guess?
and come up with ideas & potential Solutions for
queen sail
It gets the conversation going
zealous ridge
i guess you could say that
hollow shell
It kinda becomes pointless when it turns into vanilla complaint rambling
because we can't really
do much about that
zealous ridge
i agree, i don't want it to get too offtopic either
odd orchid
yeahh.
sand umbra
'tis why I usually stay quiet
zealous ridge
focus should stay on what cal can do in here
sand umbra
a lot of these things can be done, but it's more of a doubt that the devs want to
odd orchid
takin a quick look in suggestions, saw the depth blade sugg- and I agree with it.
queen sail
Depth Blade dropping from sharks is probably still a leftover from when the Abyss didnāt exist yet
sand umbra
so I just keep my ramblings in here to a minimum where I can manage, although if people come to me about it I'll gladly talk your ear off in DMs or something
anywho byeah make Depth Blade an Abyss thing
odd orchid
it just makes more thematic sense to be included with other abyss & depth-themed items you get from there. The regular ocean is is shallows compared to the deep hole
zealous ridge
also yeah depth blade being connected to the abyss more is fine by me
odd orchid
Maybe give the shark another drop to replace the thing too?
zealous ridge
idk if it really needs another drop
queen sail
Or
zealous ridge
tbf it drops shark tooth necklace and diving helmet and shark fins
queen sail
seriously why is STN a bloon drop
frail mantle
because yes
odd orchid
Yeah, make the shark drop the necklace instead of the depth blade
zealous ridge
wait they don't? what
sand umbra
oh wait a minute Clam makes them actually drop it
zealous ridge
i thought they did
sand umbra
I did not know this
zealous ridge
yeah lmao
sand umbra
but yeah uh
Sharks don't actually drop Shark Tooth Necklace in vanilla
zealous ridge
cal makes those guys drop shark tooth necklaces already
sand umbra
it's a Blood Moon drop
odd orchid
In Vanilla it's a bloodmoon drop but Clam does alter some drops.
sand umbra
zealous ridge
in any case
queen sail
Thereās a goblin shark blood moon enemy in 1.4 but thatās not a sugma
zealous ridge
hot take here
first layer of the abyss, there's these tiny ledges, and on them there's a chance that a depth blade pedestal spawns, and breaking it drops you a depth blade...? eh idk
odd orchid
holy shit i just remembered that 1.4 will completely fuck up all modding for like, at least a few months after release
queen sail
No, the fact that you implied that the first layer exists
zealous ridge
i mean, its just empty space right now right?
queen sail
Yep
zealous ridge
what if it had a purpose in the depth blade spawns?
odd orchid
there's literally nothing but empty space and the far walls on either side.
zealous ridge
lil ledges you could jump around on
then the second and third layer gets to be more like cave systems
queen sail
Somebody a more appealing abyss gen rework iirc
Instead of ābigass hole with islands in betweenā
odd orchid
Does it include fixing the travesty of the abyss chewing on the dungeon on smaller worlds?
I hope so.
zealous ridge
yeah i think it was dakotaspine
odd orchid
I wish there was at least a way to stunt the Dungeon's own gen so it didn't place itself in the path of the oncoming abyss. iirc, the dungeon generates before the abyss, so if any dungeon gets placed too far to the edge of the map, the abyss just places itself right over it, erasing whatever dungeon was there before.
hollow shell
That was the other one
green pumice
that looks cool
hollow shell
This is the previous one
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/263382359397761025/645690257991270403/unknown.png
queen sail
Ah yes that one
hollow shell
which is more realistic
cuz it's asking for more conceptual changes as opposed to exact changes
terse rain
Okay I actually would really like the super dummy interface to be a thing
queen sail
Abyss ending flatly is a moment
terse rain
Current 4th layer of abyss: V
random flume
reminds me of a suggestion i made a while ago where left clicking super dummies with super dummy item changed their defense
hollow shell
I mean, having PBG come in after a number of plagued enemies are killed isn't that much better in terms of lore
Why would PBG care?
I do approve of more ways to summon bosses beyond item usage, though
frail mantle
yea me too
although i feel like "boss spawns if you kill x/boss spawns if you kill enough of x" is a bit overused in Calamity tbh
hollow shell
m
3 bosses with summoning NPCs, 2 bosses with kill counters
frail mantle
don't get me wrong, i like the fact that they have summon methods that aren't just items, but i still believe that Peanut Butter Gaming should rather have something unique that isn't just a summon NPC or a kill count
distant gyro
I think peanut butter gamer shouldn't be pissed over us beating up plague people anyway
fleet igloo
(Should have just proposed alternative ways to summon bosses)
hollow shell
Well that would be a bluecheck, but you could
fleet igloo
What about Cryogen being spawned in a similar way to Plantera?
hollow shell
Perhaps
hallow kraken
What would be the equivalent to bulbs
foggy kindle
Smashing random ice block summons Cryogen 
hollow shell
Makes about as much sense as holding a key up in the air
hallow kraken
apparently there are runes in cryogenās lore that arenāt in the game
ah why am I saying things
distant gyro
ah yes alternate boss spawn methods
I remember people scuffling about them
Something like this
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nQTzTLJlfQycQf_Zf9JzDWI2hbMH4P22lTGBNV8YBCg/edit
frail mantle
isn't adding exo weapons in the Don'ts
hallow kraken
exo would fall under specific item nevertheless
versed mica
I mean I didnāt know we wanted to add a type of paint weapon
jaunty glade
this seems like the kind of thing that'd be very cool for the first 2 hours of the game then become very annoying
versed mica
Rouge is a very nice color
frail mantle
also if you want another exo rogue weapon install Dimensions iirc tbh imo ngl
jaunty glade
especially after dying to the boss once and having to do it all over again
hallow kraken
That is more specific than heavenfallen stardiskās patterns
jaunty glade
just like looking for the bulb can be a pain in the ass
hallow kraken
Iām sure there will be more rogue weapons pre-scal, I really donāt think thereās a point suggesting it
@tawny wind
frail mantle
i don't think it counts as a-byeah
hallow kraken
sry
tawny wind
So I don't have to remove it?
sand umbra
no, you don't, the sugg itself is fine
sand umbra
rogue seriously fucking needs more variation at that tier, it's actually painful
hollow shell
More rogue content is coming to that tier
sand umbra
good
hollow shell
The updates still aren't done
tawny wind
Yay 
warm tinsel
SCal isn't the final boss, she's a temporary superboss btw
hollow shell
Yeah but Draedon and the rest are gonna be a while..
warm tinsel
Draedon too? Man, Fab said Draedon would take until February, strange
umbral mulch
Hasn't it been scal for like 2 years now
warm tinsel
She's still a Superboss tho, Yharon is the final one for now
hallow kraken
They will come eventually
umbral mulch
I'm not mad about it
vocal grotto
This is why I disagree with giving development dates.
umbral mulch
I don't expect anything to come from a mod