stuff that’s more like “i think this looks ugly change it”
#suggestions-discussion
void kelp
hollow shell
I don't think we get a lot of those?
void kelp
it honestly happens only w yharon and levi
opal barn
We got 2 today
void kelp
maybe add “respriting bosses” to the dont list
hollow shell
Yeah and they were like
the first two in over a month, maybe several
gusty geode
I think part of the problem is
It's been actual years since Levi getting chopped in half was retconned and the sprite still doesn't reflect that
hollow shell
tbf the lore is gonna get rewritten again when Anahita gets finished
hollow shell
when was the last one of those
hollow idol
Adding solar eclipse lore? or do you mean lore items
gusty geode
I don't think they're bad in situations like this
Adding stuff for no reason besides lore is pointless and by pointless I mean doesn't do anything to help someone progress
But fixing glaring inconsistencies like this should be fine
In fact, imo it should be prioritized over adding new stuff
hollow shell
The Perforators forum page lore still says they lost the need for eyes, even after the resprite that happened over a year ago gave them eyes
hollow idol
they really need a rewrite, their hive doesnt even look like BoC anymore
gusty geode
Perf lore in general is really outdated iirc
sand umbra
both it and HiiH MiiM lore are very small too
hollow shell
The lore item and forum lore are inconsistent as well
Forum saying that they "evolved" from a single large worm, while the lore item says they're BoC's corpse that got transformed
sand umbra
literally just 2-3 sentences
hollow idol
gameplay mechanic
hollow shell
Someone suggest that both of those lores get unfucked
sand umbra
I'm about six and a half steps ahead of you 
paper torrent
hollow shell
hollow idol
Animate the jaws tbh
terse rain
How many changes must DoG receive
hollow idol
Too many
hollow shell
terse rain
Might as well change its name too while you’re at it
umbral mulch
Boutta be 5
sand umbra
New DoG sprite when?
please no
the big angery worm bully has already gotten enough resprites and reworks as it is
civic pond
oh no not again
vocal grotto
Why would it even need a resprite tho?
sand umbra
just leave the fucker alone for one series of updates
that's all I ask at this point
focus on the bosses that can actually use changes 
hollow shell
it was a joke
terse rain
Hey you guys won’t hate me if I say that I don’t really like the current laser wall phase
terse rain
It’s pretty inconsistent with the rest of the fight and isn’t fun to dodge imo is all
umbral mulch
It's also wildly inconsistent with laser placement
terse rain
Yeah but it’s a tad bit luck based too because of that though which isn’t that great I guess
hollow shell
I'd love if Dominic's portal thing replaced the laser walls
and adapted/rebalanced so it keeps the same-ish level of difficulty
teal ibex
that's based upon percentage health
hollow shell
but, Fabsol said he didn't want that
opal barn
it's not luck based
teal ibex
it's not random
opal barn
^
teal ibex
at 40% the vertical lasers extend
opal barn
below 40% I think the laser walls are longer
terse rain
Wait I mean like the placement of lasers
umbral mulch
How are we supposed to figure that out besides reading the wiki line for line
terse rain
Shoot I’m not making sense here
teal ibex
boss phases are like
opal barn
By observation?
teal ibex
incredibly common
opal barn
It's not hard to notice really
umbral mulch
I did that boss for a day and a half straight and still never figured that out
sand umbra
gonna post this here so I have a reference for when I post it in like 5 minutes if no objections
On today's episode of wacky suggestions, this time with special guest, Conflick Tinin Fermation:
Rewrite the lore of the Perforators (and their Hive) to make more sense and not give conflicting information based on where the hell you read it at.
Some say they're evolved from a singular worm. Some say they're parasites living within the Brain of Cthulhu. Nothing of it seems to make sense.
❔
...I really shouldn't have to explain this one, but lemme do it anyway. Even if you want to mostly forgo the lore in-game, it has to stay consistent outside of the game's boundaries at least, otherwise if I don't point it out somebody else will and they won't be nice about it. Consistency within lore is essential for ensuring immersion and intrigue, and the Perfs lore as it is currently fails to demonstrate this --- the resprite that apparently happened over a year ago conflicts directly with the idea that they lost the need for their eyes, and the Hive now looking nothing like the Brain of Cthulhu highly contests the idea that they are parasites from the Brain's death.
civic pond
vocal grotto
Well, if the laser walls were replaced, what would they get instead (other than the thing rover mentioned above)?
tired haven
It's the hive itself and not worm 
hollow shell
umbral mulch
I don't want it to be replaced, I think it's fine, I just think it should be clear what the fuck is happening with it
hollow shell
They have more eyes than most things
civic pond
those look like eyes to me
tired haven
well then 
vocal grotto
hollow shell
(What if DoG did portal teleportation and also laser walls simultaneously
Toning down the intensity of both to compensate)
umbral mulch
My problem is it's not obvious at all that DoG even has a subphase like that
I thought he had 3
First, then 60%, then 20%
It isn't clear that that's what happens at all
I don't get how you're supposed to notice that
hollow shell
You notice it when it happens
"Oh I guess this is different now"
teal ibex
do you really need to though?
umbral mulch
Laser wall was kicking my ass for 6 hours trying to figure out how it works
Still never noticed that after 40% they got longer
teal ibex
again, is it required for you to know the percentage to succeed in the fight?
umbral mulch
It'd help a hell of a lot
vocal grotto
I mean, can't you ask the wiki?
hollow shell
It's not on the wiki
umbral mulch
Rover just said it wasn't on there
vocal grotto
Oh, it isn't?
hollow shell
Because I didn't know about it either ._ .
hollow shell
Someone explain exactly what it is that happens so I can document better
teal ibex
at 40%, the upper lasers extend further
forcing you to actually dodge them
instead of just running
sand umbra
okay
to be entirely frank, you shouldn't have to look on a wiki to know what happens in a progression-necessary boss fight
this is information that should be properly communicated to the player in some fashion
teal ibex
why? you can beat the fight without knowing it
hollow shell
Like, the walls that travel horizontally have more lasers shooting from above?
teal ibex
if anything you should be rewarded for discovering it yourself, which is entirely possible
travelling vertically, from top to bottom -- those walls have more lasers overall
hollow shell
Oh
teal ibex
so you can't just run past them
hollow shell
got it
tired haven
It doesn't start randomly so figuring that out works pretty solid
Albeit it takes a while to get there, eh
umbral mulch
It's not random but it sure as hell feels like it since you're probably not paying attention to the boss' health bar in the fight
vocal grotto
Alright, just got the percentages for when laser walls spawn
umbral mulch
You're focusing on staying alive
teal ibex
wha
you get tons of opportunities to check health in DoG and you mentioned that you knew of when the lasers started, so why not check the health?
umbral mulch
When I was dodging the laser wall I was still shooting DoG because you can still deal damage
Halfway through the walls got longer
vocal grotto
I wouldn't advise focusing on dealing damage during the walls tbh
umbral mulch
I didn't know or think that health would affect the laser walls
It didn't make a whole lot of sense for it to happen
And if it did happen, I'd think there'd be some easier way of you knowing about it
void kelp
ngl I don’t think it should be explicitly told because by the time the first laser walls happen, you come to the realization that DoG isn’t takin as much damage which encourages you to focus on dodging
vocal grotto
Well, they disappear at <20%, when he starts to focus a lot more on physical attacks iirc
umbral mulch
Yeah
That's obvious
There's even a line for it
Very clear he's done with that phase
teal ibex
so there's a precedent for lasers to be associated with health
umbral mulch
60% isn't particularly obvious and I more just knew "It started happening somewhere in the middle of the fight"
Sometimes I'd get him down to 40% before it even happened for the first time
And that made the walls seem VERY inconsistent
teal ibex
ok i guess my problem is that regardless of whether or not you know when they exist
you still have to be good enough to dodge the harder walls
umbral mulch
It felt like luck the first time I killed him
teal ibex
knowing when they come helps you for exactly one dodge
umbral mulch
And that one dodge saved my life and let me kill him from then on
hollow shell
He could have a line at 40% in Rev+ like "You can't escape your death" or something
emphasis on the "you can't escape" or perhaps a "you can't run"
umbral mulch
Since I'd for the most part just tank the second wall
hollow shell
just so there's something
letting you know something might get different
umbral mulch
And then get him low enough to the point a third wouldn't happen
void kelp
that’d be fine
teal ibex
i mean, i really don't think that the player should always know everything about bosses
i learned that fighting polter clockwise is infinitely easier than counterclockwise just a couple days ago and i've fought him hundreds of times
umbral mulch
Sure
teal ibex
is that lame? nah, i think that's rad. i get rewarded for figuring something out myself by making a fight that i previously struggled with easier
umbral mulch
That'd be great
Something changed and you could piece together that the walls are bigger
sand umbra
~~imo it'd be better if the Sentinels were to actually start alluding to the mechanics in his fight with their own weaker setups
but we all know that's never happening~~
hollow shell
You can suggest that, Kirn
hollow shell
(As long as you have a good amount of elaboration)
hollow shell
Kirny
queen sail
umbral mulch
Kirby I'mma just repost that rq
hollow shell
(That was a meme)
sand umbra
okay so just to make sure, back to the previous topic
On today's episode of wacky suggestions, this time with special guest, Conflick Tinin Fermation:
Rewrite the lore of the Perforators (and their Hive) to make more sense and not give conflicting information based on where the hell you read it at.
Some say they're evolved from a singular worm. Some say they're parasites living within the Brain of Cthulhu. Nothing of it seems to make sense.
❔
...I really shouldn't have to explain this one, but lemme do it anyway. Even if you want to mostly forgo the lore in-game, it has to stay consistent outside of the game's boundaries at least, otherwise if I don't point it out somebody else will and they won't be nice about it. Consistency within lore is essential for ensuring immersion and intrigue, and the Perfs lore as it is currently fails to demonstrate this --- the resprite that apparently happened over a year ago conflicts directly with the idea that they lost the need for their eyes, and the Hive now looking nothing like the Brain of Cthulhu highly contests the idea that they are parasites from the Brain's death.
this look alright for sugg-ing?
queen sail
Honestly
sand umbra
or is there something else I'm missing here
hollow shell
That looks good Thomas
queen sail
The reason the lore hasn’t updated is because nobody cares about the perforators ig
sand umbra
well yes because HiiH MiiM is superior but that's not the point here
odd orchid
tbh I actually prefer Perfs but that's just me
sand umbra
alright, it's gamer time
zealous ridge
I don’t like the perfs at all, so I’m sure a lore rewrite wouldn’t hurt
Well, at all might be an exaggeration
Because I like the concept of another evil boss, giving playthroughs more variety
If the perfs and hive were just a generic evil specific boss with hive ai, I’d probably like it less
But the boss and his mechanics are less than ideal, alongside the lore being a bit scattered
When it really gets down to it, the perfs are just an event with an adaptive health bar
Where the primary threats are raining projectiles and some worms that just try and ram you
Compared to hive mind, perfs are a bit of a... disappointment? At least gameplay wise.
ruby cobalt
well yes, HM was reworked at some point in time
perfs always were the boring ass "hit it until a worm comes, kill worm, repeat 2 more times"
and nobody ever touched them
foggy plover
Perfs is as fun as you make it
vocal grotto
It infinitely improved when Terry made the latest version imo
zealous ridge
I don’t want to put pressure on terry to make every boss new ai
vocal grotto
I'd do so myself if I could. But Fab... isn't very keen on boss reworks. Unless it's bug fixes.
queen sail
I mean well yeah
vocal grotto
Hell, the project I'm working on would be part of the main mod if I had a green light to do so.
queen sail
But we get enough of a bad rep for our bosses to be using existing vanilla boss ai
vocal grotto
No?
Mostly fear that it'll be messed up, it'll take a lot of testing, or just sentimental value
queen sail
Like that’s one of the main things we get shit on for
zealous ridge
ah i see
zealous ridge
I think it’s an improvement point certainly
But it takes time to do that stuff
Not just making the ai, but testing it
vocal grotto
But yeah, other than Hive Mind, Fab made all current bosses. So it'd have to be a decision he'd make.
vocal grotto
I mean, I have my stuff, but that's staying external from the main mod.
zealous ridge
fair enough
I’ve seen a more recent focus on vanilla boss ai
In the new difficulty modes
So switching the script to calamity boss reworks would be fun to see, is all
vocal grotto
I'm doing both. But yeah. I need for go for a bit
zealous ridge
Glad to hear there’s some developer interest at least
gusty geode
I always liked the idea of like
A non-worm boss
With a long, flowing tail that behaves like a worm and has extra attacks
Wouldn't take too big a redesign to do that with Yharon, I bet
frail mantle
non-worm boss with a tail that behaves like a worm
isn't that just a worm boss tho
hollow shell
Imagine
Fighter AI
but with a big long tail
gusty geode
I guess
Imagine that it's technically a worm
But the head is a lot bigger than the rest of it
And most of the attacks come from that part
versed mica
Well a boss that has a tail and the tail has its own independent AI?
hollow shell
I don't think that'd function super well
considering Worm-AI body parts that aren't the head are just programmed to follow the head, it couldn't like swing or bend or swoosh around, it's just be trailing behind the main guy
Would need to have a lot of custom programming
gusty geode
That's all it'd probably need to do
Just a worm
But the head doesn't have worm AI
hollow shell
Sounds kinda pointless
gusty geode
Wouldn't it look nice tho
And depending on what the tail does it could add some cool new mechanics to the fight
civic pond
autoswing for summon weapons sounds familiar
teal ibex
suggestions roundup part 2
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/654326787249012755 👍
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/654377037494222868 👍
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/654670977594294272
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/654758185785229313 🚫
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/654775547993391105 👍
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/655202652233269278 🚫
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/655457373015638038 👍
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/655911628424085504 🏁
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/656013760041058316 👍
will probably send some more tonight if i'm not dead tired
hollow shell
Nice
teal ibex
if anybody has a suggestion older than dec 1st with 90 stars ping me, i'll only be looking as far back as then
swift wadi
Tfw you're 5 stars away 😔
civic pond
epic
karmic stone
Props to Hectique for searching the suggs with the semi-broken search bar thing 
void kelp
go hec 
proven tide
@languid dome those are specific item suggestions; none are allowed
languid dome
they changed that?
elder mist
what vetus means is yes, it was changed
elder mist
proven tide
the lack of a question mark confused me, sorry
hollow shell
Yeah sorry guy
distant gyro
Just to catch you in, no specific item sugs get in ever so it was closed down entirely
hollow shell
We got too many specific item suggestions, and very very few were implemented
So, we made them not allowed.
distant gyro
actually that is a lie
proven tide
but yeah items were banned due to the flood off low-priority (and often low-effort), very repetitive ideas
languid dome
I remember a dev asked me to update the sprites and then never got back to me
distant gyro
but nonetheless
proven tide
primarily focused on big brain endgame weapons with endless flashy effects
distant gyro
elder mist
muh exo gun
languid dome
so I thought it'd be a good idea after what is it, 10 months? To try a rerequest
proven tide
exoyo when
elder mist
never melee already has too many exo tier weapons 
proven tide
where's that aotc mage emote
languid dome
what is currently the best firearm in the game?
elder mist
uhhhh
proven tide
voidragon? svant?
languid dome
oh wait wrong chat
elder mist
kinda hard to tell
hollow shell
Before Oracle we got exoyoyo suggestions comin out the ass
swift bison
haha nice
if anyone asks about an exo gun ping me
so i can show them the exo gun gif in #other-mod-talk
ashen warren
tfw no result for my suggestion yet because it's only up to monday
teal ibex
compared to the other suggestions you've hardly had to wait -- you'll get a mark tomorrow 
along w/ 5 others
and then they're all basically caught up excluding any past dec 1st
though i might just scroll super far back one day and peek
ashen warren
im just fucking around
sand umbra
am curious about Lazinator momentum wheee
ashen warren
bruh
teal ibex
lazinator similarly will be marked tomorrow
hollow shell
@teal ibex Grammar error in topic sentence. -1
(prolly supposed to be "dropped from" or "obtained from"
... or "be in")
Also maybe say "instead of post-Providence" so people can be informed who don't know all the crate drops
teal ibex
they're already in the crates, the from simply refers to their existing location 
if i put dropped from or obtained from it'd imply they're being moved/added
well, i guess it could read either way really
tho i'll go ahead and explicitly mention it being post provi that's fair
hollow shell
hm
I guess it is understandable even if slightly weird
sand umbra
I still think the better solution would be to make a Profaned Crate so that my Hallowed Crates can stop being plagued with incidental crafting materials
I'll even sprite it myself if I have to
would also generally open up possibilities for giving said crate some more unique drops (alt method of Holy Wrath and Profaned Rage, anyone?)
radiant meadow
Oh I forgot those potions existed
sand umbra
radiant meadow
I probably would've added them to the crate if I remembered
But I'm still over a thousand miles away from my PC so that'll have to wait 
sand umbra
...something random just occurred to me
why doesn't Armor Crunch reduce damage reduction at all
and no, Golem inflicting it on the player does not count
queen sail
Why does Armor Crunch exist
ruby cobalt
it exists so armor is crunched
queen sail
Is it just a bootleg Broken Armor
sand umbra
it's for aesthetics, if the previous debuffs-are-worthless reasons are anything to go by
I wanna believe it's meant as something more but that's really the gist of it from what I've seen
sand umbra
wishful thinking, I suppose
although at this point I really should know better than to believe any non-Ichor debuff exists for any reason beyond aesthetics
placid moth
Why Betsy's Curse exist
ruby cobalt
why does shred exist
queen sail
Shred exists because Warframe exists
ruby cobalt
so do all other debuffs that have less than 5 infliction sources
sand umbra
(a.k.a. 90% of them)
ruby cobalt
the what
sand umbra
[[Aestheticus]]
red stormBOT
swift wadi
What the fuck is that
ruby cobalt
oh the fucking
swift wadi
I've never even seen that
ruby cobalt
all class weapon
ruby cobalt
that's a patreon weapon, so doesn't really count
ruby cobalt
patrons can just choose to do fuck all with their items, don't take those into account
however anything else was deliberately put in and thought about
sand umbra
not on the wiki
I have no idea if it's dark red ingame or not but it ain't that on the wiki so 
swift wadi
Question, if i were to put together a suggestion of nerfing the armored digger spawn rate due to them being everywhere and having 1 useless drop, what would you guys think
hollow shell
Sounds good
ruby cobalt
People are gonna be down for it even if you go full "remove them from the mod kthxbai"
sand umbra
correction, they have 1 useless drop and 1 hella good drop that was previously useless
swift wadi
Exactly drh, i don't wanna do that lol, i wanna research them and what use they provide, then write a suggestion that i feel would help the problem i see with them
ruby cobalt
(none)
swift wadi
I think ill write it tomorrow
royal turtle
THERE'S NO USE!
sand umbra
tbf I did not give Lead Wizard enough credit before trying it out for the first time
royal turtle
-silver, sonic the hedgehog (2006)
sand umbra
it's the only remotely useful thing they drop though as everything else is either completely worthless or obtainable way earlier
swift wadi
True, but, i don't wanna be like "you know this enemy and the item that you made for it that I'm sure took at least a bit of work? Yeah ust fucking trash that all chief"
ruby cobalt
"made for it"
sand umbra
Armored Diggers are just
why
ruby cobalt
nope
swift wadi
But maybe tomorrow I'll actually end up being like "wait fuck these guys remove it"
sand umbra
it's the epitome of "enemy that solely exists to get in your way"
ruby cobalt
none of their drops were made for them specifically
swift wadi
Draedons remote drops from them alone right?
sand umbra
Draedon's Remote can be moved to literally anything else
such as Aureus, the other fat Draedon-induced robot you fight around that point in progression
ruby cobalt
if anything, draedon's remote dropping from aureus would make more sense
hollow shell
Draedon's Remote was originally craftable
sand umbra
mhm
hollow shell
then moved to Armored Diggers
swift wadi
Hm true, I'll think about it, if i said i wanted remote moved somewhere else that would just make diggers need to be removed
sand umbra
Lead Wizard could honestly be moved to somewhere else e.g. post-Plantera Trashers or Travelling Merchant RNG meme
swift wadi
I like that idea of aureus, stating that's what i want done in the sugg is fine yes?
sand umbra
and tbf you're never going to use Demonic Bone Ash by the time you're fighting Armored Diggers so that can go
ruby cobalt
ye
sand umbra
swift wadi
Wtf are Trashers i forgot
radiant meadow
Gators in the sulph sea
sand umbra
sulf sea gators, ye
swift wadi
Oh yeah!
teal ibex
💢
swift wadi
The big boys yes?
vocal grotto
It's a joke relating to a quote from Amidias
radiant meadow
Trashers existed before Amidias
sand umbra
(they drop the Gatligator, which Clock Gatlignum takes as a mat, hence Lead Wizard potentially being from them instead of this enemy that only exists to be a nuisance)
swift wadi
Why not make it drop from... The great sand shark?
vocal grotto
Wait, I'm stupid
radiant meadow
The fishing rod angler drop was the joke
vocal grotto
You know what. I'm just gonna fade out of existence again
ruby cobalt
bye!
swift wadi
I never fight GSS often, if it dropped the lead wizard it could be more appealing no?
sand umbra
byeah, Armored Diggers don't really have much of a reason to be
and I really do think they could benefit from being given some actually worthwhile unique drops
arctic crystal
i concure
swift wadi
Yes, and thank you for the ideas, I'll write the sugg when i... Well feel like it so late today or tomorrow
arctic crystal
i feel they shouldnt be able to spawn intil later in the game
sand umbra
Ddie
swift wadi
sand umbra
ruby cobalt
god please more swords
sand umbra
swift wadi
Remove armored digger and replace it with the devourer of universes post DoG
radiant meadow
Projectile swords*
swift wadi
arctic crystal
sand umbra
NO
umbral mulch
We have enough
vocal grotto
Give it a post-Yharon sword iirc
sand umbra
dOM
radiant meadow
Make the sword the projectile 
ruby cobalt
so, spirit's swordsplosion?
swift wadi
Question, how big can i make a sugg
swift wadi
Because i have so many ideas for the digger now
umbral mulch
If you do put a TDLR at least
swift wadi
Can i send the draft to you Thomas? When i do write it
sand umbra
the amount of people that don't read the pins should tell you that much--
vocal grotto
^
vocal grotto
Most of the time I just punish people and go on with my day. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
The largest problems are internal. But that's a little offtopic
sand umbra
...also it just occurred to me but demonic Bone Ash is used for a whopping 3 things (and only one of them is relevant at the tier you fight Armored diggers).
We live in strange times, I tell you.
radiant meadow
Zerg pots is one iirc
sand umbra
ruby cobalt
balls? smalls.
teal ibex
ok so do i suggest phantoplasm to get moved earlier before or after i sleep
from dungeon crates, that is
sand umbra
Both.
teal ibex
because post-polter is the big sad
sand umbra
ruby cobalt
teal ibex
i'll just suggest it to be post-moonlord and assume nobody has qualms with that because it kind of makes sense
radiant meadow
I thought you already suggested that
teal ibex
i did not, in fact, suggest that particular thing
though i have suggested many other fishing things because i'm a menace to your development time, ben
radiant meadow
Good thing I'm not home to develop
teal ibex
👀
sand umbra
swift wadi
I feel like just saying "give armored digger drops that actually matter" would be stupid, i'd need to either pick items that could be moved or added to digger's drop table or i'd be saying "just make new items klul"
radiant meadow
Phantoplasm isn't really super useful pre polter
So idk if moving it is necessary
Bar seadragon
sand umbra
and Bloodstone Cores
teal ibex
necroplasmic beacon tho
radiant meadow
Okay I mean pre prov
teal ibex
pre-prov is fair, not super relevant
sand umbra
and Supreme Mana Potions and the Eldritch Soul Artifact and the Necroplasmic Beacon
radiant meadow
You literally get 100 phantoplasm by the time you kill 30 spirits iirc
teal ibex
but it just is weird to suddenly lock mats behind different progression points given that p much all other fishing mats can be obtained right when the resource unlocks
radiant meadow
Or quite close
teal ibex
i don't think spirits can even drop 3
radiant meadow
I thought the big ones can
sand umbra
Angry and Happy both can
swift wadi
I think the best ideas for digger are either removing it or leaving it with a drastic nerf to spawn rate, but that would leave lead wizard in a very bad spot, you peeps think I shoukd just stick with idea 1?
ruby cobalt
you don't get exactly a hundred
sand umbra
Sad can't
ruby cobalt
but you can get close
sand umbra
1-2 for Sad, 1-3 for Angry, 2-4 for Happy
radiant meadow
Also, I'll probably do it anyways if it gets sent
teal ibex
ah ok the upper two have a 33 and 66% chance to get 3+
but on average you're getting like 2
radiant meadow
So you can ignore these complaints
teal ibex
LOL i see i see
swift wadi
I also need to write a sugg about Polter and Deus summons, I hate them so much'
hollow shell
(tbf you're not meant to summon Polterghast with the item for the first fight)
radiant meadow
That too
swift wadi
"Just farm the fuck out of the enemies" "Just run around looking for atlas every time you die"
ruby cobalt
you're not really meant, but you'll end up doing it anyways
sand umbra
(if that's the case then why the hell can it be crafted before Polter)
teal ibex
if my math is correct you get 1.875 phantoplasm average per spirit spawn
so you need to kill a lot more than 30
keen geyser
Sounds about right
swift wadi
Yeah
sand umbra
(especially considering that the same argument potentially made for Starcore is exactly why you can't craft Starcore until post-deuces wild)
hollow shell
(because if it was made post-Polter then you'd be screwed if you ran out of Ruinuous Souls)
unless it's made out of a post-Polter material that isn't directly dropped by him
swift wadi
Post Cultist is when Atlas' get buffed yes?
hollow shell
such as...
Reaper Teeth
which doesn't make sense
sand umbra
(literally make it just available to craft post-Polter)
hollow shell
What do we have to gain from making the item only craftable after Polter's dead
radiant meadow
You can't run out of astral bars at least
ruby cobalt
a sense of pride and accomplishment
sand umbra
mat-locking it is worse
radiant meadow
Although technically you can add a downedpolter bool req to the recipe, right?
radiant meadow
hollow shell
Yeah but like no other item in the game is locked in such a way, iirc
and it'd be difficult to communicate that to the player
swift wadi
Yeah
radiant meadow
Snowfall blocks require ice biome
ruby cobalt
no, it won't be difficult actually
hollow shell
Not the same
swift wadi
Might aswell make it take like 1 soul
radiant meadow
But I just meant that as a joke
hollow shell
but.. similarly shitty
ruby cobalt
it will be pretty much impossible
swift wadi
Unless you made "CANNOT BE MADE UNTIL POLTERGHAST HAS BEEN DEFEATED" in flavor text
radiant meadow
Make help quotes on amidias and the guide spam it
ruby cobalt
it'll be awkward as shit
swift wadi
ruby cobalt
"KILL POLTER TO MAKE HIM FARMABLE"
teal ibex
"Necroplasmic Beacan'tbemadetilpolterisded"
ruby cobalt
and then everyone gets confused
radiant meadow
For the record, I chose prov and polter for unholy essence and phantoplasm for thematics
radiant meadow
Maybe
teal ibex
i respect it, it just also hurts because those are two of the only major bosses with grindy summons in post-moonlord
profaned shard being the other one which also requires unholy essence
radiant meadow
Both still are non consumavle though
teal ibex
not wrong at all
radiant meadow
And you do need a lot of phantoplasm later anyways
But I gtg so our bickering will have to be put on hold 
teal ibex
ofc ofc 
sand umbra
I honestly am really not in a position to be trying to explain my train of thought here
it is half past 3 in the morning for me
ruby cobalt
go sleep
radiant meadow
Brb adding 500 unholy essence and divine geodes to auric bar recipe tho for prov representation
sand umbra
ruby cobalt
brb bringing back old eye of extinction
sand umbra
oh god
swift wadi
I think im gonna stick with the idea of removing digger even tho I said I wouldn't, nothing else makes sense
sand umbra
no
ruby cobalt
yes
radiant meadow
Old auric
sand umbra
ruby cobalt
you wanna complain about 100 easily farmable material summon that can't be consumed
ruby cobalt
let's see how you complain about a summon that takes a total of 5000 materials and is consumed
teal ibex
cuz i don't think it gens all the way to underworld anymore
sand umbra
a
swift wadi
Yeah it's cavern only
radiant meadow
Idk, auric thing was a joke
teal ibex
well caverns stretch to the edge of underworld, but auric seemed to not spawn there for me
as of exclusively my last playthrough
just wanted to know if that was a confirmable change or not, doesn't really matter too much
swift wadi
Wait no caverns are a space between hell and underground i thought
Does it really stretch to hell
teal ibex
i might just be wording myself poorly
ruby cobalt
that's how it goes
hollow shell
Hell is not also Caverns
Caverns is above Hell
teal ibex
the bottom of the caverns layer -- the part just above hell -- doesn't seem to generate auric ore
swift wadi
yeah i had that too
hollow shell
That is indeed a section
teal ibex
it seems to only generate a set area above the bottom of the caverns
teal ibex
yeah, it used to gen there afaik but doesn't seem to anymore
hollow shell
Doesn't matter much
hollow shell
Just a tad sinful
ruby cobalt
Just the tip
swift wadi
Just a lil' bit
teal ibex
ok i am perform the mega big sleepy sheepy module, don't forget to 🚫 those suggestions friends 
💤
swift wadi
Goodnight
ruby cobalt
sleep tight
hollow shell
Don't worry I would never forget to 🚫 them.
Gnight 👋
sand umbra
okay so literally like 15 minutes later I figured out where my train of thought for Necro Beacon was going
the original thought I had was that there'd be this item that drops from Polter, which on use gives you the ability to craft the item
alternatively, the recipe would simply be usable after Polterghast
then I figured out a couple better ideas that'd ultimately fit better thematically and wouldn't be really awkward to introduce
one would be that Beacon drops directly from Polter itself and can't be crafted in the first place, natural spawn still applies
alternatively, Beacon is crafted with Phantoplasm and Ruinous Souls, and:
- Phantom Spirits killed post-Polter have a very low chance to drop Ruinous Souls
- post-Polter dungeon Crates gain a low chance to grant a few Ruinous Souls
this is all very haphazardly thought out and I could probably make more sense of it if my brain wanted to work at full power
but it doesn't so here I am flailing about and hoping anything sticks
I'm a good game dev I swear
.........I should probably sleep soon
hollow shell
Those are aight ideas tho I still dunno why it'd need to be post-Polter
sand umbra
the reasoning I had was similar to why Starcore and Teratoma/Bloody Worm Food are post-deuces wild and post-HiiH MiiM/Perfs respectively
unique initial summon method for Polter
hollow shell
The thing about Polter is that you will undoubtedly summon him if you attempt to get his item
sand umbra
m
hollow shell
It's an alright idea, for consistency and whatnot
You could post a suggestion about it
sand umbra
maybe
radiant meadow
apparently I have 10 more min
Never really liked teratoma and bloody worm food being post hm/perfs ngl
keen geyser
yeah that seems kinda stupid to me
sand umbra
I sorta like it but sorta not
keen geyser
like i get it, but it's really inconvenient
sand umbra
I'd like it more if the bosses themselves weren't put literally right after EoW and BoC respectively but that's really just the fault of awkward boss placement
and not being able to craft the summon until the point where you will decidedly no longer need it is
wack
alright fuck it I'm gonna throw the Necro Beacon thing out there and see how people react to it
radiant meadow
Make super healing pots obtainable earlier
sand umbra
It's about 4 in the morning as I sugg this so I don't have the patience for witty introductions but:
Move the Necroplasmic Beacon to post-Polterghast --- such as having it drop directly from the beast --- rather than having it be crafted.
❔
Polterghast is supposed to have a unique summoning method, similarly to many other bosses such as Skeletron, the Hive Mind/Perforators, the Siren and Leviathan, and Astrum Deus. However, the unique summon method for Polterghast is often completely nullified by the fact that you can craft its summoning item long before ever fighting Polterghast, let alone defeating it. A change like this would bring the beast more in line with other bosses or entities that require unique methods of being spawned. tl;dr consistency.
is this good
bitter topaz
other bosses with unique summon methods have summoning items too before you beat them
i don't think any more needs to be said.
bitter topaz
if you have a boss solely rely on its gimmicky, fairly annoying summon method, people aren't going to want to go out of their way to fight it.
tepid root
deus thonk
bitter topaz
oh yeah deus relies on the gimmicky method for some reason.
i completely forgot about that
tepid root
perfs and hive aren't too bad imo since their things are pretty common but deus is just annoying
sand umbra
also this is literally Duke Fishron's entire shtick in vanilla
bitter topaz
my point is moreso "is it a fun gimmick"? "is it overly annoying"? though
fishron's is barely a gimmick
the only difference between him & any other vanilla boss is that you have to use a mechanic in order to summon him rather than directly using the summon item
sand umbra
ha
bitter topaz
truffle worm hunting is comparable to grinding in both difficulty and time consumption though
keen geyser
i mean ig
keen geyser
that's not vanilla
ruby cobalt
it isn't
keen geyser
if we're talkin fishron we probably shouldn't use calamity
ruby cobalt
considering this is #suggestions-discussion
on topic of a suggestion changing boss spawners that make/don't make sense
keen geyser
that's small
uh
"the only difference between him & any other vanilla boss is that you have to use a mechanic in order to summon him rather than directly using the summon item"
sand umbra
Skeletron requires speaking to an old man who dies to spawn Skeletron
WoF requires literally throwing a voodoo doll into lava
Plantera, without the progression breaking item, requires breaking a bulb that you find in the Jungle at fucking random
LC, without the progression breaking item, requires killing four dudes who show up at the dungeon
ML's summon item in the first place isn't obtainable until you've gone through the event necessary to summon him at least once
keen geyser
isn't this directed to vanilla
the fishron thing
i mean
i can understand WoF being a possible pain
bitter topaz
i can't believe i actually forgot about skele & plant 
WoF doesn't count as it's another fishron scenario
keen geyser
quite literally
sand umbra
fair
swift wadi
My draft for the armored digger suggestion is 250 words long, good god I went too ham
tepid root
bruh
sand umbra
I guess I'll post the Necro Beacon thing, if there are no further objections
swift wadi
Go for it
hollow shell
Crud
Wording of the reason is slightly questionable
"you can craft its summoning item long before ever fighting Polterghast, let alone defeating it."
Tell me how to get 100 Phantoplasm before killing 30 Phantom Spirits
keen geyser
summon king slime as you kill the 30th one
sand umbra
hollow shell
I don't think that's how that works but good attempt
sand umbra
hm
sand umbra
would "before ever going out of your way to fight Polterghast" be better
...or maybe just "long before ever defeating Polterghast, unlike the aforementioned bosses"
keen geyser
i killed 29 phantom spirits, summoned ceaseless void and killed the 30th one, didnt spawn.
ashen warren
dying 4+ times to polterghast to craft beacon 👌
keen geyser
After ceaseless void died, i could kill 30 more
hollow shell
The latter is what I was thinking, yeah
sand umbra
there we go
hollow shell
also dang, didn't know that Darkin
sand umbra
swift wadi
The text bomb has been planted
sand umbra
should be good now
and now, for something completely different (but returning to a previous topic): this sugg
hollow shell
Mauler is a questionable choice
because they're still super tanky and lethal until you're post-ML
swift wadi
Fair, I thought it was a decent choice if adding another drop to Trasher was something the devs didnt wanna do lol
hollow shell
you could include Plantera itself as a choice
considering it drops the other ingredient for Clock Gatlignum, which is Venus Magnum
swift wadi
I'll replace mauler with it, i think that fits better actually
hollow shell
ye
hollow shell
Hide's an RIV
hollow shell
(also GSS only having "one drop" isn't a super strong reason
considering that one drop is used to craft 6 items)
sand umbra
mainly because I forgot Venus Magnum was a thing in the first place
hollow shell
(Doesn't need to be changed, s'just iffy)
swift wadi
@hollow shell I changed the sugg a bit, replacing Mauler for Plantera and stating GSS as a niche option for the drop
sand umbra
I like how these good suggs come at what is about half past 4, nearly 5 in the morning for me
that makes me happy for some reason, I can't determine why
swift wadi
You think it's better now Rover?
hollow shell
Just a small thing
The reasoning sentence where you go through the enemies is made of commas
It'd be more readable if you broke it up into separate sentences
Run-ons throughout the suggestion actually
swift wadi
I have a problem with that lol, I never really learned when to end and start sentences
I can try?
hollow shell
Do try
zenith hazel
how are pillars annoying post-yharon p1 again
sand umbra
@ashen warren all summons mess with passive NPCs in this form btw
swift wadi
@hollow shell Better now at all? Or did I do poorly
hollow shell
That is better, good job
swift wadi
Why thank you, anything else or are we good?
swift wadi
Alright, thank you for the help, i'm not good at writing
hollow shell
You should at least mention the Demonic Bone Ash
swift wadi
I don't see a reason to, I mean, a lotta other enemies drop it already
hollow shell
Yeah, how it's just
not even a concern by the time you're post-Plant, and it's separate from the other underworld sources of the material
swift wadi
You think it wouldn't be too much to add that?
hollow shell
Hmm
Perhaps, too much.
I guess it's fine, yeah
Not sure why it drops those in the first place
It sure ain't a demon
swift wadi
Thank you for the help again
hollow shell
np
frail mantle
wrong channel?
austere lion
why?
frail mantle
cause this channel is for discussing suggestions posted in #suggestions-voting
arctic crystal
@austere lion nobody cares and we know you got tat cheatsheet
austere lion
I didn't notice that
quartz hare
elder mist
isn't it already better
@still cliff shroomite is already better than chloro, the stats you posted are literally just the helmets not the total armor set
and thats just the damage, it also has higher crit chance, better defense, etc etc
karmic stone
Also why are you taking melee damage and defense into this 
ashen warren
@sand umbra no they don't, the dragons even attack dummies
no other summons attack dummies nor cultists
hollow shell
@still cliff Are you forgetting Shroomite's stealth?
Which goes up to +60% damage?
And also yeah just look on its page, there's a lot of stat boosts you're totally missing
https://terraria.gamepedia.com/Shroomite_armor
(a lot of stats you're missing for Chloro too)
(Why are you only looking at the helmets?)
loud steeple
Can't forget about the set bounuses
zealous ridge
comparing chlorophyte and shroomite is an odd choice... I'm honestly more interested in the reaver vs shroomite decision.
is shroomite worth using over reaver?
steel raptor
@still cliff So you're telling us that 51 defense, +13% ranged damage, +25% crit chance, 20% reduced ammo consumption and a x1.15 multiplicative increase to your ranged weapon of your chosing is weaker than 44 defense, +16% ranged damage, +15% crit chance, and 20% reduced ammo consumption?
Please use valid details and research before making suggestions.
Even without using the set bonus of shroomite, it is still much stronger than chlorophyte
tired haven
I'm still not sure if the helmet is multiplicative dmg, but even without that, well, it may be questionable but upgrade anyway
steel raptor
on the wiki it says so
tired haven
Wiki also said that boulders do double dmg to regular enemies in expert which is a lie so
steel raptor
calamity's headpiece for flamethrowers doesn't but that is compensated by a 25% damage increase rather than a multiplicative 15%
boulders are also irrelevant to this
steel raptor
I would imagine wiki stats on an armor set being more valid than about a single trap.
tired haven
Stats are correct, but the multiplicative nature isn't a stat but rather their quirk
steel raptor
It is a unique feature that is a bit overlooked
tired haven
Time to boot up terraria ig, brb
zealous ridge
chlorophyte and shroomite have very different purposes, as I see it
Chloro is a multi-class helmet armor that is meant to be adaptable and to allow some extra flexibility post-mech
shroomite is a late-game class specific armor that's meant to give ranger a powerful choice for ML, while still offering variety in playstyle and weapon choices.
it's hard to compare both of them, especially since the stats say that shroomite is stronger (as it should be) anyways.
steel raptor
Chloro is also available right before shroomite
zealous ridge
somewhat
steel raptor
I'd argue that shroomite is stronger than reaver ranged and maybe even ataxia
steel raptor
I cannot ignore that multiplicative dps increase
tired haven
In calamity chloro moves a fair bit of bosses back btw, vanilla only has plantera and calamity you can fight up to 3 mech tier bosses + calamitas + plant
Just as a note
steel raptor
yeah because mech alts
zealous ridge
reaver and ataxia are arguably more reliable because you don't have to stand still to get the work done
steel raptor
it gives chloro a bit more usage than just plantera
zealous ridge
but shroomite does have plenty of use, i won't deny that
steel raptor
imo the mechs are a bit harder than their alts
tired haven
They are, intentionally even iirc
zealous ridge
that's something that has to do with the rev reworks
while the mech alts get minor changes to their stats, mechs get their entire AIs reworked
well, maybe not minor for the mech alts
but minor in comparison to the mechs
steel raptor
I almost never think of cryogen as a mech alt because of how weak it is, since generally most people fight it before any other hm boss
but bc it drops souls of might, it is still considered a mech alt
tired haven
Just tried and yes, shroomite helmets do have a multiplier buff, all good then
placid moth
I feel like Brim and Destroyer are intended to be the last few mech fights because of their difficulty compared to other mechs
steel raptor
I think Destroyer is the easiest of the mechs
zealous ridge
all of that is subjective, in any case
tired haven
meh
Mech tier was always a battle of tastes, for me prime is the last one right now, and almost all alts are before mechs
placid moth
I would give that title to Twins tbh
steel raptor
twins and prime are up there
zealous ridge
I believe the point is for people to choose based on there preferences/what's most difficult or easy for them
steel raptor
they can get a bit hectic in rev+
zealous ridge
right?
steel raptor
I agree
void kelp
calamity def makes destroyer no longer the easiest mech
void kelp
I kinda like how the mechs and their alts are in that ambiguous tier because of the fact that people face different challenges
personally I find prime the easiest because my brain is broken
zealous ridge
again, that's the point
but in any case
hmmm... ive been thinking
what is the general purpose of the leveling system in calamity?
is it to encourage class specific playstyles?
I wonder what it's purpose is because to me it isn't that clear what it is
placid moth
Personally I think it's to encourage grinding
Especially when it comes to farming Ankh Shield stuff and all that Craw Carapace crap
But I still think Post ML proficiency is too difficult to max out casually.
zealous ridge
that seems an odd purpose for a somewhat unimpactful stat boost
if it were meant to encourage grinding, then why tie flat stat boosts to it?
to me, it's an odd rationale
this is of course assuming that is the actual purpose
which it may not be
placid moth
proficiency is still arse to farm
zealous ridge
agreeable
unless youre summoner, who's going to be better at grinding proficiency regardless of number shifts
it's hard to max out those stats
placid moth
relatable
zealous ridge
the endgame stat boosts are pretty nice, actually
but it gets exponentially more difficult to obtain those levels
and thus, the stats exponentially get better
but, if you ask me
it's a bit clunkily put together
like, i think it could be in for a rework considering it really hasn't changed since it got added
if i recall correctly (correct me if im wrong)
tired haven
I suppose the boosts are small stats and not something unique to not shift meta too much, it's more of a veteran bonus current way
zealous ridge
i see
radiant meadow
Nasty cholla can hurt town npcs @arctic crystal
It's weak but cheap
Made with cacti
arctic crystal
i see thanks
tired haven
Just about everything deals dmg to cultists in endgame 
smoky wagon
I honestly can agree with armored digger being removed
Its such a powerful and annoying enemy but it servers no purpose
tired haven
Personally I'd rather destroy the spawnpoint of cultists (since you can always farm eidolon tablets in case of need for cultist/pillars)
But oh well, maybe some kind of cultists being resilient thing could be neat
And nah
Not every enemy has to have a helpful purpose, tbh
smoky wagon
A miniboss that spawns randomly and can demolish you should
They should atleast make it slower so you can dodge it reliably if they keep it in
It builds up so much speed from my experience its hard to not get hit
hollow shell
Do Armored Diggers still have the "awoken" message upon spawning?
Haven't gotten there in my current playthrough
smoky wagon
They have a health bar
I have been killed by them even in very late hardmode trying to fish underground
hollow shell
I know there was a period where they had an "awoken" message (like Steampunker)
as some weird way of making the worm AI work properly, I don't know the details
Dunno if it was still the case
hollow shell
huh
radiant meadow
Add a patron item to them
hollow shell
If it isn't too offtopic, what's the reason for the unique spawn method?
We have other naturally spawning worm enemies that work fine
Sea Serpents, Gulper Eels, Eidolons..
radiant meadow
idk, can't check sauce either
hollow shell
Alright
radiant meadow
Well, I can but it's tedious
zealous ridge
think it's because its a miniboss
hollow shell
Maybe, could be a health bar thing
considering Eidolons don't have health bars
radiant meadow
I think it'd be better to make them more useful than remove them
I thought Eidolons don't have them because Abyss
And you can only hurt their heads as well
hollow shell
Yeah that is the reason but
I'm sayin that our other natural worms don't have health bars, Armored's the only example
so, could be health bar...
How could they be made more useful?
Well, that's probably not the right question
because they already drop an RIV and Draedon's Remote...
even though the RIV is a joke and Draedon's Remote has no distinct reward
ok maybe it is the right question
hollow shell
Alright that's good
void kelp
oh it drops a RIV?
queen sail
Armored Diggers are pretty useless atm ngl
Also yes it drops Lead Wizard
Gatlignum RIV
But yeah they doooooo
Pretty much nothing but be an asshole
green pumice
isnt lead wizard still overshadowed by conference call
queen sail
And they drop
• An RIV (gl grinding for that lmao)
• Demonic Bone Ash (which you can get faster in the underworld)
• A summon item for a challenge that nobody really cares about
green pumice
lead wizard isnt really a necessity to most
queen sail
well for fargo’s yes and also conference call is still
It’s a good wep but it’s lazily designed
Nothing unique to set it apart from conclave
green pumice
shush altix
queen sail
Just wonderin altix but yknow it’s changed right
distant gyro
yes
green pumice
its totally not the weapon that i got dqed twice with (conference)
queen sail
Okay
green pumice
distant gyro
it shoots 30deg from your cursor and stuff
green pumice
hmm, gen talk gave me an idea
demon altar station that you could craft or smth
lets see if its in the donts
distant gyro
and one of them is from a mod that gives town npc that sells potions
green pumice
br
queen sail
distant gyro
smh stop triggering modnotifs iirc
anyways
that's probably a no to get a crafted demon altar but you can try to make a sug ig
green pumice
hi dom, when are we getting our daily dose of infernum
vocal grotto
soon
green pumice
i mean if its been declined before, its probably gonna get denied now too
queen sail
Next Infernium preview just shows Dom getting his ass clapped by Yharon moving at Mach 20
green pumice
vocal grotto
I already did Yharon
tired haven
Just buff yharon to be Calamity GOD iirc
queen sail
:EchCrunk:
green pumice
but will pinkie ever finish yharon
steel raptor
yharon resprite still a wip?
green pumice
queen sail
Yes
green pumice
also enjoy your 
queen sail
(Should i post)
distant gyro
post whom
queen sail
🐔
steel raptor
It's been 4 months since the last time I've heard about a yharon/polter resprite so I'm wondering why it takes more than a third of a year just to resprite 2 bosses
vocal grotto
Lack of motivation among the spriters
tired haven
Because, uhh, animations take months and that further demotivates existing spriters
tired haven
Gotta love how high was the devaluation in that single sentence far above
steel raptor
I'm guessing they're enjoying themselves making resprites for the calamity texture pack
queen sail
karmic stone
Levi has been WIP for something around a year iirc
And now she's got cucked by Yharon for the meantime
Which is also taking months
queen sail
We just told you why
distant gyro
also what does ctp have to do with any of this
steel raptor
I'm just saying that's what they may enjoy doing more rn
queen sail
Ctp is different people
karmic stone
Ctp is separate from main
distant gyro
^
tired haven
From art maybe then?
queen sail
Look should I just post the latest progress Discord Nitro made on 🐔
tired haven
But yeah ctp isn't even official