That’s not really a good reason
#suggestions-discussion
queen delta
hollow idol
specific item sug and vanity
void kelp
please read the pins @open stag
open stag
wait
im looking at the dont's but
what are the do's
bug fixes/slight boss reworks (that are good)?
sand umbra
bugs go in #bugs-read-pins
nothing that is about bosses in any capacity ever gets accepted
item balancing maybe except good luck fighting for what's right on that one
vocal grotto
Boss balancing can get in iirc
sand umbra
and then there's vague shit that'll more than likely never happen because guess what the devs already have planned? either that or they ask for more info which you can't give because muh specific item sugg ban
vocal grotto
But you gotta have a good reason
zealous ridge
Cool it Thomas we all good here 
sand umbra
buh
anywho, suggs that get anywhere generally involve either item balancing or sometimes-cool-sometimes-random QoL changes
and sometimes stuff that makes sense
so that's a good spot to start for suggs n' stuff
zealous ridge
Also try not to make it longer than it has to be, tangents and the likes make suggestions less poingiant
open stag
i honestly feel scared to suggest because im probably gonna end up spiraling so far deep into something im gonna get a ban somehow
vocal grotto
No?
runic heath
You're saying I shouldn't make a million paragraph long suggestion
vocal grotto
Unless it's just a bunch of slurs you won't get banned
open stag
screw it
runic heath
I don't think you can get banned from suggesting
vocal grotto
^
runic heath
unless you like consistently post memey stupid things and don't listen to people about fixing it
zealous ridge
Hmm
vocal grotto
That won't warrant a ban
runic heath
Armor modifiers might be interesting
vocal grotto
Unless you have a terrible track record
open stag
i kinda just don't have a track record
sand umbra
armor modifiers could be intriguing but that kinda carries a lot of things that'd need to be balanced around them
runic heath
I do think it would be nice if there were accessory modifiers that benefited other classes than magic (mana cap though lol) and melee (redcode lol)
runic heath
what?
open stag
what would that even do
queen delta
Bruh
zealous ridge
open stag
freakin
runic heath
I think a rogue modifier that gave increased max stealth or maybe faster stealth regen could be relatively balanced
open stag
adds like 6 defense but deletes your movement speed
zenith hazel
enlarges your hitbox so you die more easily
open stag
no no no
runic heath
Summoner I have no idea what to give because damage is likely preferable
open stag
the armor doesnt fit you and it just falls off when you get attacked
runic heath
That's just what should happen with auric armor lol
vocal grotto
That...
vocal grotto
Would would be a really painful feature to code
queen delta
Yeah, get to work dom iirc
zenith hazel
no joke suggestions iirc
vocal grotto
Yata, no
runic heath
Ranger the first thing that comes to mind is reduced ammo consumption except that really isn't that helpful when it comes to bosses
open stag
magnum rounds?
vocal grotto
Why are these two crows always after me
zenith hazel
suggest something that contributes good to the mod
runic heath
Increased weapon firing speed wouldn't be bad in general as a reforge I think
zenith hazel
because ponies are the prey of crows
open stag
the mod is already too good to contribute to
runic heath
but I know melee speed is already janky as a reforge because redcode
open stag
atleast not for a 100 iq small brain like me
runic heath
100 iq is just regular brain
open stag
yeah
gusty geode
I've noticed that the stuff we can suggest that actually has a shot of getting in is really limited
On top of the stuff in the don'ts
Enemies and non-specific items are either ignored or shot down with "we already have plans for that area" if it's in a part of the game that needs them
Simple helpful stuff like difficulty icons are blue-checked and then ignored
In cases like reworking how a biome generates or adding a new mechanic of some kind I can understand
But some of these seem reasonably easy to do on paper
zenith hazel
suggest something simple, essentially
open stag
wait
zenith hazel
not something that’d make devs scream like the ability of your armor falling off midfight
vocal grotto
I think the specific item clause got in because of stuff like: "Laser Cannon of Doom, damage 99999999"
open stag
have you guys gotten hand-drawn OC items before because that's happened to me when i was developing sprites for a small game
ashen warren
specsuggs rule is to kill those pseudo-patreon suggestions yeah
runic heath
Well I think it also became a thing since a lot of specific item suggestions are just like "hey this would be cool!" when really it doesn't strictly improve anything just adds a new item
ashen warren
and that
open stag
yeah but what if the item is REALLY cool
ashen warren
perish
runic heath
Okay but here's the thing it isn't
vocal grotto
Then the spriters and coders have unexpected work to do
vocal grotto
Someone would have to make that item
open stag
someone suggests a one-off item and one of the big bois is all over it
vocal grotto
...big bois?
runic heath
devs presumably
open stag
the important people
vocal grotto
I wasn't a dev when those suggs were allowed, so I can't say
runic heath
I really can't think of a good reforge that would be summoner focused. Adding additional summons would just be generally op. Other minion stats are just weh ~~minion knockback 
~~
open stag
minion speed
gusty geode
I did see talk about like
Adding part of a minion slot
vocal grotto
Here's the problem with minion speed
runic heath
Minion speed maybe? Most minions do well enough except for dragons
open stag
they are already FAST AS F U K
vocal grotto
You'd need to add custom attributes to every summon weapon
runic heath
although I wonder if increasing minion speed might just break redcode
vocal grotto
No?
sand umbra
would probably cause some interesting scenarios, too
open stag
what is redcode?
vocal grotto
Redcode is slang for Terraria's source code
open stag
slang?
gusty geode
Like
+0.25 extra minions
So with 4 or more accessories that have the modifier you would be able to summon one more minion
sand umbra
such as stardust bruhgon and staff of the yesworm, if you do it wrong
vocal grotto
*slang
runic heath
oh yeah if only one part of the dragon was moving at the right speed then the entire dragon might just LONG
open stag
now im imagining long yharon
vocal grotto
@sand umbra 
runic heath
but the dragon type summons are the only ones I would say aren't fast enough but that's mainly a turning thing
sand umbra
runic heath
Yharon isn't a dragon though
runic heath
Dragon phoenix fair enough
open stag
devourer of gods tokyo drifting
gusty geode
Maybe 0.33 more
So you'd get a max of 2 more minions and then the 7th slot to do something else with
vocal grotto
The phoenix is more of a property than anything else
He hasn't been officially called a phoenix in a long time
open stag
as a person who lives in phoenix i can back the fact up that it's a property
runic heath
Fair enough, my brain also just did a dumb because It'sYeBoi mentioned long dragons
open stag
sorry
runic heath
no it's fine lol
zenith hazel
get back to the minion thing please
runic heath
+2 minions would be relatively balanced I think
open stag
minion attributes
runic heath
+2 minions versus +24% damage
runic heath
Probably would be dependent on what summon you use and would need dps testing
open stag
because all your accessories and items could get that modifier
runic heath
It's +0.33 not +2
runic heath
so +2 over 6 accessories
gusty geode
Yeah
What Roof said
open stag
a 5% damage boost until you reach 3
then its +1 minions
or something else
fuck it
suggesting
runic heath
maybe edit your other suggestion if you're adding onto that idea
although I guess that could stand on its own
open stag
just did the lazy thing and deleted the old one
runic heath
wait so it's just +0.33 minions and +3% damage for 3 accessories and then only +0.33 minions
that sounds needlessly complicated
open stag
well yeah
runic heath
and also mildly annoying to program
gusty geode
I also remember the idea of weapon modifiers for summons so you could gain full extra slots, but those slots could only be filled with one specific minion
runic heath
since now you have to keep track of what other reforges accessories have
that'd be interesting
open stag
really rare armor modifier that adds an extra accessory slot
runic heath
then you just have an army of 1 of every minion
open stag
and it doesnt stack
runic heath
That just sounds like it would be an annoying process reforging forever to get that
since a bonus accessory slot is incredibly powerful
gusty geode
That's your fault for spending so much time trying to get it
open stag
well yeah
runic heath
also conditional accessory slots could cause issues, although that already exists for demon heart so it could actually probably be implemented without as much headache
open stag
maybe just make one of the shit hardmode armors have that as an appealing thing
gusty geode
I feel like more suggestions could be added if we don't assume the player is the type of person who will spend literal hours trying to get the absolute best loadout they can before progressing
At least more of this kind
golden narwhal
Add a craftable pre-boss flail.
Reason: Currently, there are three pre-boss flails if you are in a corruption world, and the only flail that doesn't require defeating enemies or navigating a treacherous biome is heavily reliant on shadow orb RNG. A craftable pre-boss flail would allow for a flail-only run that doesn't rely heavily on RNG.
have not posted this yet, just checking if its alright
terse sundial
Yateveo Bloom exist
gusty geode
Every time a suggestion like this shows up a bit of me dies inside to contain my rant about how subclasses are getting more attention than a certain actual class
open stag
summoner classes just sit on a lawnchair and let magic do the work for them
sand umbra
so surely you've played summoner then
runic heath
I have said this before, but if you are doing a subclass run you should be well aware of what you are doing. The game wasn’t fully designed around it, so you might have to deal with bullshit
queen sail
How about we forget Melee and Ranged exist for a year 
zenith hazel
yeah but nobody really gives a shit about that lole
runic heath
Also you can just make a new world if you really need to get ball o hurt
zenith hazel
people will keep capitalizing on this small niche of gameplay and we can’t do much
runic heath
Or just brave the jungle
queen sail
What even popularized subclass playthroughs
sand umbra
CORRUPT CRATES DROP SHADOW ORB ITEMS BTW, WHICH INCLUDES BOL
runic heath
I don’t have a problem with subclass playthroughs I think they are cool
golden narwhal
fuck, forgot fishing exists
runic heath
I think people should just realize that it’s not like it will always be a balanced experience
queen sail
I mean yeah but we got other classes we need to polish up
sand umbra
can be yes'd by fishing
queen sail
Thomas what in the fuck
sand umbra
yes.
runic heath
Well yeah I don’t think sub classes should be a focus
zenith hazel
subclass pts are fine unless the people doing said pt want to push their insane beliefs onto others
zenith hazel
“add flamethrower pre-hive because subclass!!!”
no.
queen sail
runic heath
For this specific situation obviously
queen sail
@zenith hazel to be fair...
runic heath
There is a flamethrower pre hive though
queen sail
spark spreader
zenith hazel
that’s pre-boss
golden narwhal
hive has no time limit so brave it with spark
sand umbra
which is pre-Hive
queen sail
Still prehive
sand umbra
thus, no more flamethrower-only complaints
zenith hazel
spoilers: a pre-boss flamethrower is not good for hive
sand umbra
next subclass to make good so people will shut up about it? none? alright, summeme time it is
queen sail
sand umbra
sand umbra
summoner is a subclass of mage
gusty geode
Sentries
queen sail
Inb4 thomas mentions yoyos or smth
runic heath
Hermit crab ai minions only
sand umbra
queen sail
Thomas why do you have so many specific emotes
sand umbra
@queen sail not funny
didn't laugh
queen sail
golden narwhal
so sentry is subclass of subclass
queen sail
and tbh you do care about yoyos enough to try and completely revamp their style of gameplay
sand umbra
that's. not relevant to the conversation, nor does it prove your point
and I'd really fucking appreciate it if you didn't try to twist it into doing so
capiche? got it? good
sand umbra
the point is that people are clamoring over capitalization on these very niche styles of gameplay and they are overexciting themselves over it to the point where everyone --- including me, Subclass Man himself --- is getting sick and tired of it being the dominant subject of #suggestions-voting
when do we get actual weapon suggestions that serve to provide greater variety at a point that a class lacks
when do we get suggestions about changing boss mechanics to work better with general weapons rather than just accepting the meme mechanics and trying to change the good ones
when do we get summon weapon suggestions for Chrysler's sake
if the local subclass enthusiast is getting sick of subclass-related shit in suggs chat then there is absolutely something wrong
open stag
because they are banned
golden narwhal
when someone cares enough to play summoner
open stag
based on the rules the mods made you arent allowed to suggest single weapons or groups of weapons unless its suepr good
and even then
queen sail
That’s not the issue, really
sand umbra
what kind of fantastic joke is this
specific item suggs got fucked, but you can still ask for more summons at XYZ tier
ask for a vague summon drop from XYZ
more accessories for summoners
more fucking sentries
golden narwhal
you're allowed to suggest putting an item at a certain point of the game
runic heath
I played summoner recently
sand umbra
what got banned is the fucking Patron item bootlegs that plagued the chat every goddamn day until the day they died
vague, less specific suggestions about generally adding more content for certain classes or at certain points in the mod is still completely fair game
runic heath
does summoner have any other prominent accessory line besides statis stuff?
sand umbra
no
queen sail
No
runic heath
Also statis is such a damn meme since you just equip all three
zenith hazel
spirit glyph, godly and profaned soul artifacts
queen sail
And tbh i feel like the issue comes in the way summoner is presented and coded
sand umbra
Statis' Belt of Curses is a Chinese bootleg mega-accessory that isn't even summoner-focused or really a mega-acc because you can get like half the bonuses from it just by equipping Statis' Blessing
@open stag this is gonna sound really retarded and outta left field, but add a reason, to both of your current suggs
runic heath
summon has 5 unique accessories I didn't even realize. Since the rogue expansion rogue actually has a ton which is pretty cool
sand umbra
suggs need reasons
zenith hazel
mans posted 4 suggs in the span of an hour
queen sail
Not only is it the most halfassed class in the game apart from Ranger but there’s no content in HM, it’s notorious for being ass to code
runic heath
yeah looking at rogue that's crazy how many accessories there are now instead of just radier's talisman lol
sand umbra
okay I'm sorry to break this to you
summons are not nearly as difficult as everyone's been making them out to be
terse sundial
sand umbra
you program them just as you would a normal projectile/NPC
with the caveat that they have a default ability to gather near the player when not attacking shit
(which isn't hard at all)
are they tedious? yes, as any good mod content is
but they're not difficult 
vocal grotto
Really depends on what you want it really to do
vocal grotto
It can go from piss easy to hell
sand umbra
worm
open stag
werm
queen sail
How about we uh
vocal grotto
Mechworm isn't hard to make. But fixing what's already there
queen sail
Get a definitive cosmilite tier summon accessory
vocal grotto
open stag
yo man
queen sail
So summon doesn’t stick with statis stuff
open stag
you know what the best suggestion ever is
sand umbra
petition to shift Belt of Curses to rogue, make Nanotech something different when Draedon happens, and give Summoner an actual dedicated mega-acc post-DoG
sand umbra
or hell, just rebrand the Belt of Curses line outright, that'll work just as well
terse sundial
I would recommend dropping your memeish comments yeah
gusty geode
This feels like a reveal you'd put on the news and call a scandal
Summons are not ultra-hard to code 
sand umbra
and add a greater variety of accs throughout progression for them
open stag
k but there is one summon item ive always wanted
zenith hazel
mechworm is still kinda bad specifically for sub4 yharon
a sentry could potentially help with that
open stag
or pet/morph/rideable/whatever
queen sail
Yeah but
queen sail
We don’t have any
sand umbra
perhaps a drop from the buffed seasonal moons?
zenith hazel
that’s a reason, not just “because sentry subclass”
sand umbra
or just a normal Cosmilite and Nightmare Fuel/Endothermic Energy craft if you wanna be boring 
open stag
inb4 sentry goes from subclass to normal class
vocal grotto
Unless it has a range of 154 light years, I'd expect a sentry to not do too well against Yharon
queen sail
Go revamp pumpkin/frost moon post dog or smth
zenith hazel
I don’t need it to be good for yharon in general, it just needs to deal with sub4
queen sail
To make them more worthwhile than “event but buffed and a revamped miniboss at the end”
open stag
yharon is 153.9 light years large
vocal grotto
Please don't talk about that
zenith hazel
because
- mechworm can’t properly catch up to yharon
- the other summons barely do any damage
- energy staff is lole
open stag
is that better
queen sail
Also no i don’t think sentries are gonna work for a fight where you’re moving 200 mph
zenith hazel
also yeah, enough with the memes, this is your final warning
civic pond
i cant remember any scenario where energy staff was worth using
sand umbra
actually
civic pond
sand umbra
is it time
vocal grotto
I might ask about increasing mechworm speed later
civic pond
do you think energy staff could be buffed orrrrrrrrrrrr
gusty geode
What if they were like the lightning aura trap
So enemies just take damage when they're close enough to it
queen sail
Hm yesss i will fire a laser and completely miss the boss/hit it once
queen sail
Burst of fireballs instead of just one maybe
gusty geode
Encourages leading the boss around and manipulating their movement
Something people don't often take advantage of
civic pond
homing 
queen sail
I dunno
civic pond
or even faster projectile speed
actually item suggs aren't supposed to be specific so i'll just include all of them as examples..
sand umbra
when was the last time Energy Staff was relevant
gusty geode
So auras won't work?
sand umbra
auras will work
if we collectively agree to overhaul OOA and give it a fourth post-DoG tier
queen sail
Will there be an indicator
civic pond
queen sail
sand umbra
like
making OOA not horrible to go through
and giving it post-DoG content to assist summoners in their time of need
queen sail
Change the buffer timer tbh
zenith hazel
OOA’s not even that bad tbh
gusty geode
I wouldn't call different bad tbh
It's meant to be a special kinda event
Being a crossover and everything
queen sail
When the Tavernkeep’s shop has prices up to 50 Medals
sand umbra
because Betsy and her Treasure Bag exist
sand umbra
nope, anything related to OOA that isn't Vesuvius or Thorium's scattered OOA content is vanilla
because nobody likes messing with OOA fsr
gusty geode
Is the new Betsy drop actually from DD2
Did the devs actually do any research there
queen sail
No but does it need to be
sand umbra
pretty sure it's just an excuse to have Meteor Staff 3 & Knuckles
hollow idol
Legendaries were probably made before deciding what boss would drop it
civic pond
I interrupt this program with a suggestion to energy staff
queen sail
Tier 1 = 5-10 seconds
Tier 2 = 15 seconds
Tier 3 = 30 seconds
Tier 4(?) = ...30 seconds, you got time
civic pond
Buff energy staff in some way
Energy staff is as close to endgame sentry as you get..
..and its fairly underwhelming. Most of its projectiles have a tendancy to miss and is hardly worth using during any boss.
All I suggest is that besides a flat out damage buff, it could possibly have another ability like piercing, faster projectile speeds, multiple fireballs, homing, etc. 🆗
yay or nay 
queen sail
Works
sand umbra
yay
queen sail
civic pond
si
vocal grotto
Doesn't it already home?
sand umbra
it does
hollow idol
Especially considering the holy power of spikecrag and cryogenic, the last sentry for now at least is indeed kinda underwhelming
sand umbra
apparently
sand umbra
yeah for the final sentry it's really underwhelming
civic pond
or just better homing
hollow idol
fair trade off
queen sail
Darksun tier eclipse sentry?
gusty geode
Perf hive sentry
queen sail
Hmmm
queen sail
Feels more fitting thenatically
sand umbra
byeah
hollow idol
Well I do have mini versions of all corruption enemy sprites on hand if that becomes a thing
queen sail
And it would fit into the gameplay of their fights
sand umbra
would also make Dank Staff and Blood Clot Staff not just. carbon copies of one another
zenith hazel
yeah but pre-hm ichor
queen sail
considering that perf hive spends most of the fight flying and hiih miim spends phase 1 stationary, releasing corruption creatures
No
Actually
Uhhh
Idk
hollow idol
plasma rod
zenith hazel
plasma rod inflicts ichor but for a very short time
you wouldn’t be able to fully abuse it
gusty geode
Perf hive could just shoot blood
Because it also does that
zealous ridge
Can definitely attest to the fact that the celestial sigil puts a significant pressure on your money supply
But the question I have is... considering how useful and multipurpose luminite is, perhaps it’s meant to be more costly to grind?
zealous ridge
fair enough
id say more like a few minutes considering when you need luminite most is pre-prov
distant gyro
Was talking in general
Impending Doom takes a fat whole minute of life to finish
Even after scal and shit
zealous ridge
thats true but that isnt really a calamity imposed restriction anyways
are you saying that the time it takes is already enough of a drawback?
distant gyro
yea
queen sail
Minute long buffer becomes ass at points
zealous ridge
i still feel like it should cost a decent amount of money
it costs... 3 platinum right now
zealous ridge
oh yeah i remember that
i like that one, i was thinking something like "Hippocampus Husk" would sound cool
if anything that might be too grandiose
but i digress, its a nice suggestion
sand umbra
now it has 91 
foggy kindle
made it 92 iirc
vocal grotto
I'd delete 2, but I'd probably get yelled at
tired haven
Tbh I'd share one concern regarding @WеAreToast#4490 suggestion
The style feels somewhat... flammable. All those emotions spilling over the edge and do barely anything with suggestion itself
Take it with a mountain of salt but I'd recommend slightly toning down on emotional side when doing a suggestion text
hollow saffron
^
facts and logic
not passion and outrage
but it was funny for my eyes to read
steel raptor
Okay, that’s good to know. Tbh I wasn’t fully sure if tone of voice persuades people to get my idea.
sand umbra
Tone of voice is a very fickle thing in text.
I should know, I've pissed people off by mixing up the smallest things in text or giving the wrong idea more times than I care to count.
hollow shell
I can see how emotion would be convincing
Rallying people behind your cause and whatnot, making the issue seem important
But also
... try to maintain some professionalism
sand umbra
Heated emotion works in moderation, but also: You gotta DESTROY the issue with FACTS and LOGIC. Give some good statistics and the like, or even just logical reasoning, behind a suggestion being what it is --- and it is this logicality that should remain the forefront of any good sugg.
And be careful not to get too heated about it too quickly --- in other words, do as I say, not as I do.
steel raptor
I just changed some of the emotional statements by toning them down and/or removing a few words.
sand umbra
👍
Seems fine to me now, if it didn't before.
You get a gold star for your efforts. And a sugg star I guess.
⭐
hollow shell
There's still some emotion in there
"ripoff" and "lazy"
sand umbra
I mean on one hand I agree with you Rover
but also on the other hand 10 platinum for the Profaned Shard
you're highly unlikely to even have a reason to purchase this thing again in the first place, yet it's still stupidly expensive
steel raptor
Changed those two words Rover pointed out.
hollow shell
(not needing to purchase it again is a reason why it would be expensive, no?)
sand umbra
...no???
hollow shell
Thanks Toast
sand umbra
there's literally no benefit to buying the Profaned Shard off the Wizard, especially since the only thing the Guardians drop can be made non-consumable prior to Provi
you're essentially spending 10 plat on nothing
hollow shell
A frequent purchase wouldn't be as expensive as something you'd only buy once
Because your total cost of repeated buys would add up to the expense of a single big thing
sand umbra
I mean okay
steel raptor
But then there’s Bumblebirb (if for some reason you want Swordsplosion)
distant gyro
Pretty sure it's cheaper just to craft
sand umbra
way cheaper
hollow shell
It's to encourage y'all to not be lazy and go out n' get those materials for once
You can't just stay at home burning your savings away
distant gyro
steel raptor
Good point ngl
I mean, farming the mechs is a thing
Because the mech souls sell for too much money
distant gyro
Arma cryo gang
hollow shell
(up to 32 Gold for one Twins kill's worth of Souls of Sight)
(Damn, I didn't know it was that bad)
(Counting Hallowed Bars, thas a max of 46 Gold per kill)
(if get good drop amount RNG)
hollow saffron
dang
hollow saffron
but its stil meaningless farming, wasting time that you could spend on fighting harder bosses
ngl i wish terraria could be as farmable as minecraft
radiant meadow
not to mention light discs are good cash
hollow shell
Mech Herbs coming soon
sand umbra
kjlashgfklajhkljh
hollow saffron
get yourself some redstone components and slime blocks and you're playing idle farm simulator 2019
hollow saffron
ok thomas
hollow shell
Sunflower of Sight
Magnolia of Might
Forget Me Not of Fright
distant gyro
tired haven
Gleaming Magnolia of Might sounds like a sarcasm ngl 
(also the ping didn't work because I broke it intentionally, wasn't sure the reason is worth it to actually ping a person, heh)
Glad the note was considered tho
limber quarry
Anyone notice a very small consistency change between chaos candles and water candles where you can’t right click chaos candles to pick them up? I don’t know if this is actually worth their time, but I wanted to put it out there.
placid girder
Thing with ml summon in particular is you can just kill aureus and get a fuckton of frags to make sigil anyways
green pumice
ruby cobalt
means it got sent to devs
oak meteor
ok
ruby cobalt
as if that wasn't evident enough from what these 2 channels are made for
oak meteor
Shut
worthy fiber
Problem with adding the yoyo bag to the gauntlet is that all melee players will be required to get an accessory meant specifically for a subclass
Even if it's endgame it'd still be tedious because RNG iirc
worthy fiber
Perhaps, but it still won't fix the problem that melee users will need to make something they probably won't benefit from
green pumice
this may sound stupid but, maybe the recipe of the gauntlet remains the same, and the yoyo bag can be added with the gauntlet
so you wouldn't have to waste time getting it if u dont want it
mighty mica
This suggestion is on the Don't"s doc because its been asked frequently so this doesn't need to be suggested again.
green pumice
is it?, all i saw was upgrades to the yoyo bag, not adding to gauntlet
mighty mica
green pumice
oops
swift wadi
Im sorry friend
mighty mica
I'll delete it then since its on the doc and has been suggested many times.
green pumice
aight
manic pumice
why though
radiant meadow
because yoyo bag becoming part of ele gauntlet will make the obliterator, oracle, and azathoth more painful to balance
proven tide
@supple lodge night's edge is the true melee sword
to give its components projectiles majorly detracts from that
weary walrus
Plus, true melee sword has higher base damage than those aren't
supple lodge
But if you get it right as you’re probably about to fight the WoF, and the WoF is basically un-true melee-able, I don’t see what purpose it serves now
weary walrus
Well, you don't have to use it in boss fights to make it useful, night edge even tho not good for bosses, it can clear normal mobs rather quickly
weary walrus
Bloody Edge exists
distant gyro
Carnage is rare so no one really gets it
radiant meadow
carnage if you're down to grind or get lucky
distant gyro
Bloody Edge heals ye
radiant meadow
carnage is worth it to grind for tbh because it eats slime god
distant gyro
But what you want in true melee is a swift adrenaline to the face
Which NE excels at doing
weary walrus
Plus, not all true melee fights simply means just jump at the boss and trade damage. You must be very tactical to play as true melee
weary walrus
Play as true melee is pretty much torturing yourself omegalul
distant gyro
Not that bad
steel raptor
I used Night’s Edge for WoF
Just make a roof and a floor and you’ll constantly swing the sword away from the direction you’re moving, unlike Calamity’s true melee weapons (They always swing the direction the player is moving)
Personally I don’t think Night’s Edge needs any buffing
But the statement above is why I always prefer Night’s Edge over Carnage or Bloody Edge
night cradle
nobody saw anything in #suggestions-voting 
what I think honestly about the sugg tho is that I don't think that any of the Night's Edge nor its components need any buffing
they are great early-game melee weapons for melee players, and the Night's Edge itself is great enough with its damage output
distant gyro
imo all that needs changing about NE is progression
All the other penultimate weapons being Night's Ray duo and Lunarian Bow are post-SG
sand umbra
I sugged NE being moved to post-SG before
distant gyro
Moving NE to Post-SG and buffing Muramasa is a better idea
Buff both accordingly
Same for NS
sand umbra
that died because "muh true melee SG"
...except byeah you can just make Muramasa actually worth half a fuck
steel raptor
So you’d basically have to use sunfury for SG as a true melee character
distant gyro
Yes.
steel raptor
But then again True Melee Scal is impossible
steel raptor
CrabBar’s method doesn’t work anymore
sand umbra
how is this relevant?
distant gyro
Crab's true melee vids are extremely dated
sand umbra
byeah, NE and NEarly all of its components are viable in the first place
Muramasa just sucks
the Dungeon Chest weps in general suck
distant gyro
I don't even use Murasama in Vanilla
sand umbra
and upgrades exist purely to give them purpose
distant gyro
Because it gets upgraded right away
just like how I never use Ankh Charm and its components
steel raptor
Vanilla devs expect you to explore underworld after Dungeon iirc but that’s just dumb
sand umbra
Muramasa is an immediate upgrade into NE, Handgun needs Pheonix Blaster to stand, Magic Missile is lol, Aqua Scepter exists I guess
distant gyro
Magic Missile dies in Flamelash afaik
sand umbra
oh yeah Flamelash
Flamelash is literally obtainable on the same tier as Magic Missile and does the same shit but better
steel raptor
Rainbow Rod got buffed by 75% but Flamelash never changed
distant gyro
It's the handgun situation over again
sand umbra
Blue Moon would be good if Sunfury didn't also exist and iirc do everything better as well
Valor just straight-up sucks
distant gyro
Valor dies when Cascade happens
sand umbra
Valor dies in the face of Chadscade
steel raptor
There’s a lot of Vanilla Weapons that didn’t get changed but that would take lots of time. Also, Calamity devs are eventually gonna make this mod a standalone game iirc
sand umbra
you gotta wonder how Cascade got buffed and Valor didn't when Valor is straight-up about as good as shit obtainable way before it
(which is not a good thing; it's a Dungeon chest item for Chrysler's sake)
tired haven
Tbh
Buffing all the yoyos is pointless because people are using only strongest ones anyway
distant gyro
tldr
Muramasa -- Night's Edge
Magic Missile -- Flamelash
Cobalt Shield -- Obsidian Shield
Blue Moon -- Sunfury
Handgun -- Phoenix Blaster
Valor -- Cascade
Ancient Shiv - Night's Stabber
Aqua Scepter in the Shadow Realm
tired haven
That's the issue with identical weapons
distant gyro
These are all the dungeon stuffs that get upgraded almost right away
sand umbra
this is why vanilla yo-yos are stinky
sand umbra
night cradle
steel raptor
Terra Edge is also much stronger than Terra Blade because the projectiles are created differently
tired haven
Or is it?
steel raptor
Terra Edge always creates them as soon as the blade is swung (even with auto swing) but Terra Blade requires you to swing manually if you want as many projectiles as possible
Otherwise you’d get a projectile every other swing
sand umbra
sounds like melee speed issues
tired haven
Mmm that's kinda wrong, because with certain melee speed you don't get benefit from manual swing
sand umbra
once again, thank the retardation of redcode
distant gyro
When only use animation is reduced
sand umbra
melee speed doesn't affect useTime (the thing that affects projectiles here), only useAnimation (how fast the actual blade swings)
you can imagine how this factors into projectile melee weps
sand umbra
like I'm sorry to break this to you but that's not a Terra Blade exclusive issue
distant gyro
Essentially cucking a fuck ton of projectile memes
sand umbra
that is an issue with every single vanilla projectile melee wep
steel raptor
If you click as soon as the Terra Blade is done with its swing it will shoot its projectile again (autoswing messes it up)
distant gyro
Vampire Knives is a known example
sand umbra
Vampire Knives are especially bad here because they literally cannot fire every shot past a certain melee speed threshold
tired haven
Terra Blade raises the issue to the new level, since it features varied projectile fire rate from melee speed
sand umbra
that's an issue with other weps before it already
steel raptor
Also just wondering, is Calamity gonna be its standalone game someday?
tired haven
Do I have to grab the table ?
sand umbra
namely, Death Sickle, which seemingly can suffer the same issue (to whoever said this thing had no projectile cooldown, get your facts straight)
distant gyro
Probably not
sand umbra
I dunno what meme table you're talking about
I'm talking about the shit I've had to learn while testing and rebalancing these weapons for EE
steel raptor
I heard it mentioned in the developer podcast (pt 2 of the tier list)
tired haven
How UseAnimation of Terra Blade correlates with fire rate
15 blade - 30 shot
13 - 26
12 - 24
11 - 22
10 - 20
9 - 18
8 - 16
7 - 21 (or 14 if you have speed reforge)
6 - 18
5 - 20
4 - 16
hf
queen sail
3 major updates to fix and we got even more redcode 
sand umbra
I really wish I could just
steel raptor
So a UseTime of 6 or 5 is worse than a UseTime of 8?
tired haven
Yes
sand umbra
remember, useTime does not change with melee speed
sand umbra
it'd require some rebalancing of projectile weps, ye
because then they'd actually fire projectiles properly with melee speed
steel raptor
The code for Calamity Melee Projectiles seems completely different from Vanilla
sand umbra
modded projectile weps are programmed differently from vanilla projectile weps
as the Shoot method is universally used to make them fire
you can use the variable OnlyShootOnSwing to get the vanilla behavior
or you can do the normal thing and set that to false, allowing the projectile to fire even mid-swing
(you can't set this variable for vanilla or other mods' weps from GlobalItem, sadly, although I patiently await the day such becomes possible)
tired haven
So, can anyone remind me the fire rate of terra edge?
distant gyro
To be edgy
tired haven
Was a healing counterpart but
distant gyro
tired haven
(bloody edge blahblah)
sand umbra
frail mantle
Specific Item Sugg meme
distant gyro
@last star smh si sug
tired haven
Uhhh you aren't supposed to post that
last star
@distant gyro wut
distant gyro
Specific Item
zenith hazel
this is totally not a specific item sugg at all, no siree
proven tide
this is uh
sand umbra
so I quite frankly give no fucks
bitter topaz
smh
specific item moments
"no specific items" means more than just weapons
tired haven
Mfw I just realised why clentaminator has so short range
To not screw half a world when trying to edit a small patch of dirt
sand umbra
byeah, Clentaminator's range is (relatively speaking) short so it grants some semblance of accuracy
civic pond
purification powder moments
queen sail
😔
civic pond
as if anyone actually uses it
distant gyro
Axe of Purity
civic pond
:no:
sand umbra
Axe of Purity is the true chad
last star
So can i remake the suggestion but not be as specifik?
queen sail
Yes
last star
Oki
queen sail
Last one was since september
distant gyro
Yep that's a blu
last star
@distant gyro what do u think of the suggestion esk thing i talked about before? Like is it balanced enough or boring (what im getting at is if i should bother suggesting it or not)
ashen warren
i believe that the calamity added recipes for vannila items destroy the spirit of terraria
runic heath
I mean it’s a weird balancing thing to be honest
But also one can opt to not utilize it
tired haven
Not having player to adapt with whatever is kind of required because lategame really likes to gather everything in one pile so that becomes a chore to grind all the missing parts
(however, I do agree that it's somewhat hurtful for actual pt variety, and that such a change could have been theoretically a config)
sand umbra
wait, what's happening? feelin' like I missed something
what is this thing that's being discussed, exactly 
frail mantle
they're discussing re-adding scaling legendaries except different, i believe
sand umbra
neat
also I'm blind and so is my discord, hadn't seen the other recent sugg
so like, I'd agree with killing Calamity-added recipes for items if endgame weapons and gear didn't outright require them somewhere in their crafting trees
vanilla RNG is horrendous
and having to rely on it to get shit that's necessary for late-game stuff --- and becoming unable to get some of your only options without the stuff for which recipes are added --- would honestly make the game flat-out bad
vanilla RNG is horrendous
tired haven
Ye, it was about the latest sug
ashen warren
the point is, that calamity just has some must have lategame accessories
am i the only one who sees my messages in red color? it's kind of freaking me out
no items should be must have
wooden wedge
lost agate
If no items should be must have then people would do itemless runs
And people that actually get the shit they should, annihilate everything
So...
Not the wisest choice
Also, hermes boots are a must have last i checked so...
lost agate
Ok then
Then bat hook is a must
Or just hook if you wanna go to that route
And if you say it isnt neccesary then EoC would like to have a word with you
Or literally half the bosses cuz they maul you if you arent fast
lost agate
(i had a bit of a stroke having this convo while discord is dying)
ashen warren
not what i mean
i mean that you have to use something
but that something shouldnt be necessarily the sponge or something
lost agate
Ok then
Tell me something that is a must have, that doesnt devolve in more dmg or smth that wasnt a must have already like boots
Go on
ashen warren
the sponge
lost agate
You dont need it
frail mantle
i rarely ever use the sponge tbh
ashen warren
still my point is that the player has to adapt to what he's given
lost agate
You can do just fine without sponge
ashen warren
to increase replayability, make some items unobtainable in one playthrough, thats why ore varieties exist, crimson and corruption, you name it
lost agate
Well i dont get your point cuz thats literally asking to be cucked at random
ashen warren
yes, to increase replayability
lost agate
And that isnt replayability, that can flat out make people abandon runs
Which is the opposite of replayability
left crest
that's literally just annoyance
lost agate
That or guess what
ashen warren
the player shouldn't want one specific item
lost agate
Not in this game bud
left crest
esp considering mega accessories like asgardian aegis and the sponge, if just one component isn't in your world, you can't get this item
lost agate
We play a game that has something called WoF that has both an arena and boots as a must have
ashen warren
asgardian aegis and sponge dont need chest accessories if i remember correctly
lost agate
And thats just one of many examples
left crest
yes, but they do require the vanilla accessory with the second largest crafting tree, otheriwse known as the ankh shield
amber elk
off the top of my head the only thing i can think of that isnt necessary with a recipe is rod of discord
lost agate
God discord stopped dying
left crest
which, although it doesnt require chest accs, requires several rare drops from many enemies
that would just be abhorrent to get for an SCal viable accessory
ashen warren
im talking about items like ark of the ancients
lost agate
You dont need it
ashen warren
it needs enchanted sword and starfury
i know
but you may be able to make it if you're lucky enough
lost agate
Dude just
left crest
keyword being if you're lucky enough
left crest
no one wants to have to make 2+ worlds just to make a random midgame sword
lost agate
Nobody is forcing you to craft it
left crest
except maybe you apparently
lost agate
Its there so people that actually want to get stuff dont get cucked
Why remove it
That just removes freedom, which would you look at that
Freedom helps with replayability
left crest
also, say you're playing rogue, and there's one material in Celestus's recipe you can't get
you're cucked
ashen warren
there's a lot, and i mean a lot of cool stuff in the calamity mod, im saying that if the player doesn't have freedom, that might actually be better, because in one playthrough you might turn out with this endgame weapon, or this endgame weapon
if the player has freedom, he will just keep crafting the celestus
left crest
except when only 1 wep is viable for a given boss, that has a problem
lost agate
Except when they dont
left crest
literally the only scal viable rogue weapon is celestus, there is no alternative, other than SotC but that's a lame excuse
lost agate
Ah yes lets remove freedom so they get forced to play again
Such good design
Or
They make a new world which is nothing short of the same
left crest
^
ashen warren
but each playthrough has to be different
lost agate
If i get forced to replay the game to get what i want
ashen warren
not go over the same crafting trees as the last one
lost agate
I aint playing again
Just saying
Dude
You choose what to do
If you go through the same crafting trees
Thats YOUR fault
Theres choices
If you dont take them, thats not the problem of the mod
left crest
I do not want to have to beat every single boss from KS to Yharon 1-2 more times, just to be able to kill SCal
lost agate
Thats yours
ashen warren
though, when you get to endgame, there don't seem to be as many choices as mid game
lost agate
Only rogue has issues with endgame
Also if youre saying post plant
That place is just packed
Theres a thing called "too much"
So if you were expecting post plant variety everywhere, im sorry to dissapoint you
Because then people say everything is bloated
Woooowie
ashen warren
i think came up with an idea to fix something that wasn't broken in the first place, my bad
ashen warren
about quality of life, it should exist but this is a mod about you being in a cruel world helpless having to become powerful to defeat evil not a hotel
last loom
Does anyone have calamity mod version 1.2?
radiant meadow
@last loom please stop spamming in multiple chats for the same question
in fact, you asked in basically every chat, where it doesn't belong in half of them
civic pond
@ebon mesa there have been a lot of suggestions about this
ebon mesa
ah
civic pond
the reason you cant combine them is the tradeoff
hollow shell
It's on the Suggestion Dont's doc
civic pond
that too
civic pond
jaja
ebon mesa
kinda lame but oh well
hollow shell
Because the balance of the lore items is that they take up a lot of inventory space
ebon mesa
they dont do a whole lot for it though
hollow shell
You have to choose whether you want a freer inventory or the bonus effects
If you feel like a lore item ain't worth keeping on, then don't keep it on
ebon mesa
calamity has a few other OP complex crafting trees, im not sure how this differs
hollow shell
Kinda different situations
karmic stone
You can get free stats for the cost of 1 inv slot per lore item
radiant meadow
isn't that already a thing?
hollow shell
Well those are in accessory slots
which you have a more limited supply of and can only be used for the purpose of equippable items
radiant meadow
pretty sure draedon's forge can make work bench stuff
hollow shell
Inventory slots have multiple purposes
radiant meadow
work bench just isn't in the draedon's forge recipe
hollow shell
Lemme check Draedon's Forge
ebon mesa
so, what if the lore items crafted into an accessory?
radiant meadow
@supple lodge
hollow shell
That's no fun :P
ebon mesa
its ok though, if calamity doesnt want it i wont push it
theres gotta be a mod that does it itself anwyay
hollow shell
Maybe
I wouldn't be surprised if Fargo makes a Lore Enchantment in the future
Yeah Skoores, it already acts as a work bench.
hearty yew
@supple lodge Just checked source code. Draedon's Forge counts as a workbench.
void kelp
hey btw there’s about 10 suggestions from this past Monday to now thatve met the requirements
void kelp
thanks rover!
supple lodge
Oh, it’s just the last time I played through the mod, I’m pretty sure it didn’t count as a workbench
hollow shell
(someone vote on this so I can deliver it and won't have to scroll back to it later
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/651584403343933461 )
runic heath
done
radiant meadow
oh hey, that's mine
hollow shell
Thanks
versed mica
No meme suggestions I guess
vocal grotto
?
vocal grotto
Yeah, don't make joke suggestions. That will be warn.
cyan lagoon
I'm assuming this is specifically around nerfing ice claspers
void kelp
It’d be better to be more clear what you mean exactly, yeah
hollow shell
@scenic aspen Do you mean specifically rebalancing Ice Claspers, or are you referring to all summons in the game (and you're just using Clapsers as an example)?
ashen warren
It feels incomplete 
gusty geode
Came in late
But aren't any and all instances of the Corruption being the better world evil just
Invalidated by Ichor
ashen warren
Pretty much
Though technically you can fight the perfs on the evil island in hardmode and you're set.
queen sail
That’s still ichor :unexplainableemotion:
scenic aspen
@hollow shell I.haven't finished my Summoner.playthrough to check others summons but rn the butterflies of doom anahilated Duke in seconds compared to the Pygmy Staff
hollow shell
Alright. You could include that in your suggestion as well
scenic aspen
Sure
hollow shell
Though tbf Ressurection Butterfly is Post-Golem, and a bit harder to obtain due to its recipe
Pygmy is Post-Plant, a direct drop
would be better to compare to Xeno or maybe Deadly Sphere
radiant meadow
deadly sphere is still post plant
hollow shell
yeah but it's a bit later post-Plant
and I'm pretty sure a flying summon would fare better against Duke than a grounded summon
sand umbra
also Resurrection Butterfly is literally designed to kill Duke
because Duke as summoner, from what I hear, is nothing short of horrible with anything else
(the summon is even specifically programmed to do amplified damage to him, iirc)
queen sail
Didn’t fab change duke to take 20% more damage from summon
sand umbra
I have no clue
hollow shell
(It'd be nice if there was some indication of that interaction so you could know without looking on the wiki)
(More damage to Duke, less to Lunatic Cultist0
(Like the tooltip says "Slayer of Dukes, pray of the occult" or smth)
queen sail
Bruh my data went full meme mode
sand umbra
but I know for a fact that butterflies are specifically programmed to kick the shit out of Duke, or at the very least were at some point
hollow shell
I'll check source
queen sail
Iirc he nerfed resurrection butterfly but made duke susceptible to summon damage
Like around 20% iirc?
hollow shell
Well, even if he did
The Butterfly interaction is still in
yeah
They deal double to Duke, half to Cultist
radiant meadow
blame the sharkrons distracting the butterflies
sand umbra
sharkrons being NPCs internally is like. the worst thing
because they easily make up about half of the actually threatening projectiles in the fight
queen sail
On one hand going any other class means you can usually off them pretty quickly
On another hand summons go after them
:pensive_rick:
sand umbra
byeah that's the big thing about Duke with summoner
good fucking luck getting anything to actually attack him
your minions and such will focus the Sharkrons instead, which as I mentioned make up a large portion of the "projectiles" in the fight
runic heath
Yeah vanilla summons in calamity are in general out classed
Ice claspers are really damn good too
sand umbra
also Enbruhpy's Vigil
runic heath
I actually think I skipped that when I was playing through summoner xd
runic heath
Multiplayer memes
runic heath
But yeah I would imagine since golem buff you can’t just claspers anymore
scenic aspen
Freakin claspers outclassed every single summon before Plantera
Going through walls is insane
void kelp
but does that apply now?
scenic aspen
And also what is that nonsense of "Butterflies do more dmg to Duke"? how is that a thing
I'm still playing
void kelp
it’s a summon weap that summons butterflies to fight for you
hollow shell
That's not the part he's confused about.
hollow shell
According to chat, it's because Duke is normally a nightmare as summoner
hollow shell
So the Butterflies were given that function to make it
passable