suggestions-discussion

[signal prairie]

Well, its a weapon that drops from the Moonlord. ML drops and Luminite weapons are extremely powerful and can wipe bosses that are below him, and even him pretty quickly. Obviously, make bosses that get buffs from beating later bosses unaffected when they get buffed.

[proven tide]

hey calamity makers, please ad my item; no u 2: no
hits boses rly far n makes them take 1000 damage a second and sprite is a realy big stick with spikes and flames on them and makes boses despawn because i keep getting kiled by destroyer in hardmode :9

bugfixing with golem and ravager beyond banned, must individually yeet each part off the map only to end up with invincible sprite and perpetual boss theme

[tall furnace]

You one hit everything but in return you are one hit

[proven tide]

@hollow shell it's been a minute and you still haven't validated my shitpost, how fucking dare you

[signal prairie]

Cause not only will it make farming bosses easier to an extent. it would also not only make it useful, but make more sense as it is called the Grand Dad for a reason and a small reference to pre-nerf Grand Dad

[proven tide]

anyway realtalk does the most recent sugg count for a bluecheck considering mode indicators is the latest sugg trend? or have none of them even reached 90 stars

[hollow shell]

The thing is
It is a bluecheck...

because I didn't move the bluecheck date forward like I said I would, cuz I'm a dingus

so

[proven tide]

[hollow shell]

Announcement:
The ☑️ (bluecheck) cut-off date has been moved from January 1st 2019 to June 1st 2019.
Suggestion concepts from prior to June 1st, 2019 are now able to be suggested again without being bluechecked.

[proven tide]

did you just

have that on your clipboard

[hollow shell]

You could say that

[proven tide]

or are you just able to type 13 words per second, punctuated

[void kelp]

I think rover is just that good

[proven tide]

idk, considering how many times thomas and i have made 80% of his points on the latest suggestion by the time he's finished typing

[sand umbra]

[hollow shell]

Thomas moves at twice the speed a normal human does

Nothing you can say or do will convince me otherwise.

[proven tide]

and yet gets boss kills in 1.5x the time

[hollow shell]

oh fuck bounrrn

[proven tide]

man my fingers are deadass longer and knobblier than anyone i know to the point where i have to use a case on my phone that widens it by an inch just to be able to fit both hands on it

i don't even have to move a single inch to hit every key on my keyboard

[hollow shell]

Vetus has 90 fingers confirmed

anyway

[proven tide]

hmm, here's a question

regarding bluechecking

say a sugg is made and reaches 90 in like

march

then made again in may and gets bluechecked

but less than ninety stars

then again in august, then again in november, none reaching ninety

then the bluecheck cut-off is moved later

so while the original 90s sugg was pre-july, the chain of bluechecks extends beyond that

would the same sugg now, in december, be bluechecked

[hollow shell]

No

[proven tide]

but would if the august one reached 90?

[hollow shell]

No
because that one didn't get sent. The March one got marked as highly suggested when the August one reached 90.

[proven tide]

wot

[hollow shell]

Bluechecked suggestions that reach 90 do not get sent

hence the bluecheck

It's to stop a lot of the same suggestions from getting delivered

instead, one suggestion gets through which is tagged with being suggested successfully >1 times

[proven tide]

so basically any sugg that has reached 90s pre-july is free game, even if it reached 90s again yesterday

[hollow shell]

(pre-June)

and yes

[proven tide]

(oop)

well now

[hollow shell]

I think

Not 100% on what you mean by "even if it reached 90s again yesterday"

[proven tide]

if the same sugg hit 90s yesterday and got bluechecked

like, a repost

okay lemme commit words

[hollow shell]

Yeah ye

[proven tide]

may: "add asturm beans" 12930 ⭐

[hollow shell]

These suggestions from earlier today got the short end of the stick

They keep their bluechecks

[proven tide]

[signal prairie]

Frosty is typing up a wall of text

[hollow shell]

at least 50% of that text better be frickin reasoning cuz he missed the memo those other times

[signal prairie]

Let's hope

[proven tide]

nah he just pullin a sequence and typin 4 lines

[signal prairie]

Also hoping my last 2 previous suggestions get thought about by the devs

[proven tide]

@ashen warren tiny-finger ass bitch

[signal prairie]

[ashen warren]

what the fu

[sand umbra]

The sound of distant rambling is slowly approaching...

[proven tide]

my man's just got ping 999

i refuse to believe this sugg will be any more than 100 words

[sand umbra]

byeah that's a possibility too

I just want to believe it will be detailed enough to where you can consider it as such

[proven tide]

watch it be an item sugg

[sand umbra]

deadass

[random flume]

[cobalt rose]

hoo boy thats a lot

[zenith hazel]

but why

[golden narwhal]

i disagree with a lot of it

[hollow idol]

the death of x items were removed

[distant gyro]

some things don't make sense here

[sand umbra]

Wall of Text has awoken!

[distant gyro]

some are better than the original

[proven tide]

holy fuck

[tall furnace]

That’s why I said “this doesn’t need to be in the game”

[distant gyro]

others already exist and needn't mention again

[zenith hazel]

some are a straight downgrade

[proven tide]

note that some of these may be already in the game

[distant gyro]

yes

[cobalt rose]

literally ALL of them are

[proven tide]

effects.

[distant gyro]

congratulations you're self aware

[tall furnace]

They’d be minor boost

[proven tide]

some of the effects might already be in game. Not the items. @cobalt rose

[teal ibex]

i mean disregarding the effects, the lore items dont take an acc slot, so i dont know why thats mentioned in the reasoning

[zenith hazel]

EoW and BoC lore are busted

[distant gyro]

but you're also redundant for giving a thing that already exists a suggestion for the thing that already exists to have an effect that already exists

[random flume]

making most/all lore items straight upgrades with no downgrades is kinda dumb

[zenith hazel]

having ichor anywhere in pre-hm, even if it’s only melee, is incredibly powerful

[proven tide]

firstly, are these additional effects or replacements? secondly, how would it contribute to the suggestion to list existing effects? thirdly, why? fourthly, the 'may' implies you haven't actually checked some of them

basically what

[cobalt rose]

@proven tide the way it is worded makes it look like they're talking about the lore items themselves

[zenith hazel]

why do these affect melee so much

[proven tide]

fifthly, what does "immunity time knock back" mean?

[tall furnace]

Autocorrect

Immunity to knockback

[queen sail]

Why do all of these sound like permanent boosts with no downsides :idontgetit:

[random flume]

^

[ashen warren]

Are these meant to replace or add on?

[proven tide]

while some of these make sense, like the p-ml ones, others make uh

[tall furnace]

They’d probably have a side effect but also be a small increase

[proven tide]

well, i don't get why the twins add speed

[ashen warren]

And most of them are flasks for some reason..?

[queen sail]

Like the penalties you do give are really small sometimes

[sand umbra]

having ichor anywhere in pre-hm, even if it’s only melee, is incredibly powerful

[tall furnace]

It can be both @ashen warren

[sand umbra]

having ichor anywhere in the first place is incredibly powerful tbf

[proven tide]

[tall furnace]

I guess

[proven tide]

betsy's debuff should get more love tbh tbh

[queen sail]

Remove ichor iirc

[ashen warren]

..how can it both replace and add-on to existing effects

[proven tide]

alternate universe where ichor doesn't exist

[sand umbra]

literally the only way Betsy's Curse becomes relevant

[gusty geode]

Someone's gonna come in saying "enemies more likely to target you is a downside"

[queen sail]

Which means nothing in singleplayer

[sand umbra]

and I'm gonna come in saying "MP memes are out of the question here"

[queen sail]

Because you’re always gonna be targeted regardless

[ashen warren]

having low enough target priority does make you in essence, invisible

even in sp

I believe that's how rogue stealth works.

Most of these feel kinda generic tbh.

[tall furnace]

There

Made it balanced

[ashen warren]

Just a bunch of flat buffs.

[sand umbra]

lunatic cultist projectile rains down when hit

wut

[tall furnace]

Fireballs, etc

[golden narwhal]

this list is classist to melee

[queen sail]

Bruh

Why is this all melee

[tall furnace]

How would I make it for anything else

[queen sail]

You literally could have made LC magic related

[proven tide]

1. Are these additional effects or replacements?
2. How would it contribute to the suggestion to list existing effects?
3. Why do the lore items need changing?
4. Fourthly, the 'may' implies you haven't actually checked some of them, which is bad sugg protocol
5. Why do so many focus on melee?
6. What's the connection with some of these concepts and their effects?
7. What have accessory slots have to do with the lore items needing effect changes?
8. Stacking up on common effects (water breathing, fire resistance) just retroactively adds the lore items to the bloat list.
9. The EoW and BoC items are incredibly powerful for their placement.
10. @hollow shell henlo this one's for you Doesn't listing currently unmade items, such as individual lore items for each sentinel, count as a specific item suggestion?
11. Why downgrade some of them?

12. 

[golden narwhal]

^

[queen sail]

[ashen warren]

[queen sail]

I suppose that sums it up though

[lilac nacelle]

isnt one of the existing ones jump boost in space
doesnt that just make getting back down harder?

[ashen warren]

good job condensing like 10 minutes of potential conversation into 1 message

[gusty geode]

Wew

[proven tide]

As far as I could tell, the AD lore effect was just the jump height, not accompanying speed.

so another thing

[hollow shell]

(I don't think you can have one without the other)

[proven tide]

(hm)

[golden narwhal]

BoC lore is already pretty good anyway probably compensating for the fucking brain of confusion

[sand umbra]

(they ultimately reference the same thing)

[proven tide]

13. Why add an extra ten-fifteen tiles onto jump height at a point in game where Duke Fishron's wings are available to the player?

[sand umbra]

BoC lore is god because Brain of Confusion sucks and BoC itself sucks to fight

personally I hate it and think it needs a different effect

[ashen warren]

v don't be silly

[sand umbra]

but god knows that's never going to happen

[ashen warren]

Jump speed is kingly

[proven tide]

but this is jump height

[ashen warren]

They're the same fucking thing.

[hollow shell]

"space jump height everywhere" it says

which I assume means

low gravity everywhere

[proven tide]

^

[tall furnace]

1: either or 2: idk 3: I don’t think they’re all that useful and would like some trade offs 4: sorry 5: I’m fixing that 6: ex aureus inflicts astral infection, EoC is an eye so it can see better 7: literally nothing 8: health decrease penalty 9: in nerfing them 10: ok 11: idk 12: ok boomer @proven tide

Yes

[proven tide]

6. counterpoint: the twins give speed why?

[lilac nacelle]

i fail to see the usefulness of jump boosts in low grav

because twin fast kinda?

[tall furnace]

Spazmatizim dash

[sand umbra]

Twins give speed because Spazmafuck exists ig

[proven tide]

so does like

hive mind

[sand umbra]

EoC dashes too

[proven tide]

okay let's take this from the top

[golden narwhal]

birb takes steroids

so... movement speed?

[sand umbra]

also I like how any suggs above this are dead now
rip in pizza new mana increase

Birb giving heightened movement speed makes sense because Birb is Speedy McFastFuck

[static maple]

new mana increase PLEASE

[tall furnace]

Yes

[hollow shell]

Aight regardless of whether the suggestions need changing or not:

Frosty, you've gotta put that suggestion in a Google Doc

[ashen warren]

It's kinda doc worthy y- goddamnit rover

[hollow shell]

It takes up too much space as it is

[tall furnace]

Copied

[signal prairie]

I was right

wall of text

[static maple]

new boss

Wall of text

[ashen warren]

humorous

[lilac nacelle]

the alphabet gun from gungeon, but as WoF

[hollow shell]

diamond diamond diamond diamond

[static maple]

yes

[lilac nacelle]

BULLET

[ashen warren]

truly hilarious and comedic

[static maple]

LEECH

[hollow shell]

ok anyway

[static maple]

LASER

[hollow shell]

Doc

[tall furnace]

Share it here?

[hollow shell]

Replace your suggestion message with a Sharable link to the Google Doc

(preferably Can View mode)

[runic heath]

yeah new mana increase sounds p good

just have lore increase mana smh

there are no lores that increase mana/hp are there?

[tall furnace]

I’ve never uploaded a doc to discord

[ashen warren]

It wouldn't matter.

[runic heath]

I know calamitas decreases hp

[hollow shell]

One thing about posting a doc:
Include a brief summary of what the suggestion is in the message that you post the link in

[ashen warren]

There's a max mana cap.

[hollow shell]

You don't upload a Google Doc.
They're online

[ashen warren]

The permanent upgrades are all that boost that cap currently.

[sand umbra]

...you mean to tell me there's somebody in the universe that doesn't understand how to use Google Docs

[tall furnace]

I don’t know how to post a link to the doc on discord

[ashen warren]

Moving it to lore would bruh.

[hollow shell]

In the top right corner of the doc, there's a blue Share button
It opens a menu when clicked, and in that menu there's a Get Sharable Link button

[tall furnace]

Shut up

Oh

[hollow shell]

Click that button to get the link you've gotta post

[runic heath]

max mana cap is 500?

[hollow shell]

(make sure you set it to Can View and not Can Edit, or you'll prolly get vandalized to shit)

[runic heath]

because red code?

[ashen warren]

Lower iirc

It's like 350 or smth

[runic heath]

or because more stars can't fit on the screen

that's dummy low

[ashen warren]

with the max mana boosts

[runic heath]

with the max mana boosts that would just be your default mana

since 200 + 150 = 350

[static maple]

i used an alchemest NPC item to increase mana by 100

and it just clipped back to what it already was

[tall furnace]

Literally cannot copy link

[lilac nacelle]

why didnt they just use normal ass health and mana bars

[hollow shell]

Does the button that says "Copy Link" not work?

[ashen warren]

good question, comet

[proven tide]

Let's do this again wheee

1. How would stacking multiple effects to each lore item be useful for balancing?
2. So you've added part of your suggestion without knowing why. Shouldn't that just be clear?
3. You say you don't think they're useful, yet in saying "trade-offs" you mean that these effects would replace the existing ones; so giving Calamitas's lore item the same effect as three(?) accessories at that tier as its sole attraction makes it more useful than two extra slots?
4. At least you apologised uwu
5. Good, because some of these effects could just be flasks.
6. I still struggle to see why the twins adding speed is more unique to them as a concept because one of them dashes. The Desert Scourge moves faster than Spazmatism.
7. So your reasoning has, quote, LITERALLY NOTHING to do with your suggestion?
8. I'm not even sure what I'm supposed to do with the fact that you responded to a comment about how these effects (fire resist, water breathing, etc.) make lore items content bloat with the words "health decrease penalty". That's... not a response?
9. Yay
10. Aren't you going to address the fact that this also partly counts as a banned suggestion type (read: specific item sugg?)
11. So in being asked why, in trying to make these items more useful (or something, considering your reason has "literally nothing" to do with the suggestion), you nerfed some, you don't actually know why you've done what you have?
12. ok zoomer

[ashen warren]

[proven tide]

basically honestly at this point can we please just fuckin yeet this sugg

[hollow shell]

He's putting it in a doc

[tall furnace]

Well I’m using iOS

[hollow shell]

so it'll be fine

ah

[proven tide]

because nobody will read it because doc

[hollow shell]

pensive

Not sure what the UI looks like on iOS

[proven tide]

once again, rover; isn't adding new lore items and their effects specific item suggs?

[hollow shell]

That's a relatively grey area

[hollow shell]

I think it would be that little person+ icon

[tall furnace]

That’s the layout

[static maple]

im pretty sure it is that

[hollow shell]

yeah, it is

and on the screen there should be a picture of a link

[runic heath]

comet probably because people do things stylistically

[proven tide]

the ✏️ at the top?

[hollow shell]

Nah it's the green link button

[proven tide]

or the green l— ok

[tall furnace]

That’s the edit

[runic heath]

and a lot of the reason I assume redcode is an issue is because red didn't entirely plan for this game to be this big

[hollow shell]

Ah, I see the issue

Android docs is very similar so I'm lookin at it too

[tall furnace]

I am an idiot

[sand umbra]

no, see

mobile docs is the fattest meme

[tall furnace]

It was pasted the entire time

https://docs.google.com/document/d/10cE3Y2rTPx90nOs6phD6DTjHOUR9K1yC2yUtKR-QXwM

[hollow shell]

ah lol

Alright
now you can post that link into #suggestions-voting
along with a lil summary of what the suggestion is

It'd help to title the doc too

[ashen warren]

"something that people can use without accessory slots"

you can already use lore without slots

that's why they are the way they are

[tall furnace]

I’m saying I’d like buffs from accessories without using accessory slots

[random flume]

that just sounds op

[proven tide]

which is what they already do, no?

[static maple]

that would be op

[tall furnace]

They’d be weaker versions though with a cost of hp loss

[ashen warren]

Have you like, actually used the slime god lore?

Because seriously

[tall furnace]

Yes

[ashen warren]

That lore is amazing

[tall furnace]

Slime god is just hosting Disney on ice

[ashen warren]

The mobility boost far outstrips the defence and slippy biz

It makes hooks your best pal

[static maple]

I dont use it because of the slip

[ashen warren]

Then you have stuff like the aquatic scourge lore

Or skeletron prime

Or levi

All really good

[hollow shell]

(I was always under the impression SG lore was a big meme)

(because of the slippy)

[random flume]

same

[proven tide]

(it's a joke yeah)

(sequence has a special head)

[ashen warren]

shut the fu

[proven tide]

(<3)

[random flume]

prefer big meme lore tbqh

[ashen warren]

You've seen me use it

[random flume]

dont like lore that just make you stronger

[tall furnace]

Slime is more sticky than slippery that’s why I chose that change

[random flume]

i feel like they should bad in most cases except for select scenarios

[ashen warren]

It's 100% value for even mechs

[lilac nacelle]

it makes you unable to stop and reduces def for the benefit of ???

[hollow shell]

I disagree, heck

Because they already take up inventory slots

[ashen warren]

You just need to remember to hook, which you will anyway.

[sand umbra]

SG lore is the fattest meme

[hollow shell]

They can afford to be simply good because if you try to use too many at once, you have a stuffed inventory

[lilac nacelle]

does slippery make you move faster outright?

[ashen warren]

The best part of the lore is consistent speed without micromanaging.
anyway about what heck said

[random flume]

you shouldnt have a whole inv section dedicated to lore

imo

[ashen warren]

They're based off the memories from sekiro

[tall furnace]

And also no health @hollow shell

[hollow shell]

Exactly, heck

[random flume]

never played sekiro

[ashen warren]

You remember more of your past and get stronger

[proven tide]

oh yeah and shouldn't it be included that the penalty to these SIX specific item suggestions reworks is lower health?

[fierce mulch]

That lore suggestion has 3 melee only bonuses, one summon only benefit, one magic only, no other class-specific benefits, and deus lore change seems like pain to me

[hollow shell]

Because that would be very cumbersome and make it basically impossible to explore while collecting loot

[ashen warren]

In calamity, yharim is basically giving you power.

[proven tide]

magic bonus for lc* @fierce mulch

[fierce mulch]

I missed that one

Thanks

[hollow shell]

@tall furnace Don't forget to add a smol summary in your suggestion message that has the link
and also give your doc a title

[sand umbra]

magic bonus for LC makes sense except pillar effect already exists

magic bonus for LC would work better if the bastard had actual goddamn drops but lord knows that's never happening

[proven tide]

this is nigh across-the-board nerfs sprinkled with insane melee boosts

[random flume]

eidolon staff

[ashen warren]

Make Lunatic cultist lore add back stress tbh tbh good suggestion star me

[sand umbra]

aside from Ice Meme Staff and <playername> was violently pricked by a flower.

[runic heath]

just make all lore boost true melee damage

[ashen warren]

Farming lc drops would suck so hard.

[proven tide]

i've done it

had to get like

800? i think? tablets?

because mage run

[tall furnace]

Then farm edolyns

[runic heath]

uh excuse me

[proven tide]

turns out the rariant isn't even that good

[runic heath]

800

[proven tide]

[runic heath]

the fuck

[sand umbra]

pretty sure Thorn Blossom is a huge meme

[ashen warren]

RIV's are a huge meme

[proven tide]

in the sense of being a walking talking joke then yes

[sand umbra]

you lose life on using it

[fierce mulch]

Space jump everywhere seems like just pain and nothing else

[ashen warren]

there are like 2 that aren't a bruh

[sand umbra]

there are better weapons obtainable earlier or at the same tier

and most importantly, because farming LC is something nobody likes doing, you will realistically never get it in normal play

[ashen warren]

anyway, lore

[lilac nacelle]

farming LC or skeletron

boy howdy

sure do love waiting 20 minutes after each fight

[ashen warren]

The items tend to shy away from just being permanent buffs, since that'd suck.

Just more needless power creep

They'd buff the hp amounts again

nothing would change

[lilac nacelle]

jank terraria balance

[ashen warren]

You'd just be expected to fill every fucking slot with an item

[lilac nacelle]

lods of enumbers

[ashen warren]

which is stupid because you actually want to have an inventory

Oh right, of course, potions exist too.

[lilac nacelle]

seperate window where you can toggle lore item effects on or off

boom

done

[tall furnace]

Genius

[ashen warren]

A lore book is not a new concept

[runic heath]

okay but the whole balance of lore

[ashen warren]

It hasn't gotten in so far and I believe it's a bluecheck.

[runic heath]

is that you have to take up inventory space with them

[random flume]

thats not really an actual nerf imo

[tall furnace]

Be op for no health

[fierce mulch]

All in all this is just a suggestion

[runic heath]

any previous suggestion to consolidate lore (for example plantera, WoF, and polterghast lore) has been shot down

[ashen warren]

agreed, dude

[random flume]

literally just "be stronger but a bit more inconvenienced"

[ashen warren]

death stranding

[tall furnace]

Amazon shipping simulator

[runic heath]

I mean it is kind of dumb, especially managing them inventory wise having sets for exploring and for fighting bosses

[lilac nacelle]

not like there's
you know
portable storage containers
in vanilla

[ashen warren]

Lore items don't work in a piggy bank.

[random flume]

[lilac nacelle]

yes

[ashen warren]

And there is no way to access a floating safe or forge.

[runic heath]

Not the point, just that swapping them out can be done at a piggybank

[tall furnace]

Maybe a slot like your money and ammo to put lores in

[runic heath]

you can keep safes in your piggy bank

[lilac nacelle]

but loot doesnt care where its shoved in

[runic heath]

carry around a defender's forge

[lilac nacelle]

multiple copies of the same storage dont actually give more space
IIRC

[ashen warren]

If you really want to play with only having like 5 slots active, be my guest.

[runic heath]

they don't of course

but you can keep a safe in your piggybank

then put the safe down

put stuff in the safe

then pick it back up

same with defender's forge

[lilac nacelle]

whole lof of hassle for 2 slots

is piggybank placable ontop of the safe?

[frail mantle]

no iirc

[lilac nacelle]

dang

[frail mantle]

but Money Trough exists

[ashen warren]

Remember you'll have at least 2 weapons, a rod of discord, a piggy, a cellphone, stupid amounts of lore items, healing and buff potions, and only around 50 slots.

Then you need to manage 3 whole other inventories.

Fun.

[queen sail]

The thing about lore items is that you effectively get free accessory tier boosts except you have a fuckton more slots

[runic heath]

you don't need to carry around most lore items lol

[tall furnace]

Just get inventory space +

[queen sail]

Cryo lore was a free dash, if anything

[ashen warren]

That is not a valid argument.

[runic heath]

many lore items are for exploring over boss fight

[ashen warren]

If it was, you could just get cheatsheet.

[runic heath]

so store your boss items in one place and then swap when need be

[ashen warren]

Balance is always discussed in a vacuum.

[lilac nacelle]

but really you shouldnt even need to dedicate more than 1 slot for potions in your active inventory
and that ones for healing

[runic heath]

heck you could probably leave exploring ones in since most bosses don't fill your inventory unless you're doing arma

[lilac nacelle]

the rest you can keep stuffed in a safe and chug pre when needed

[ashen warren]

Have you played the harder modes?

Most potions run out before the boss is dead.

[runic heath]

having a food item for well fed for exploring is nice too

[queen sail]

For example

[ashen warren]

5 armor pen is effectively 2.5 more damage

Doublepost?

[lilac nacelle]

oh god

[queen sail]

I fucking hate lag

[frail mantle]

5 armor pen=free STN

[lilac nacelle]

hes out of control

[queen sail]

Hold on, sorry

[ashen warren]

It's fine.

[queen sail]

Anyways this has no downsides despite it effectively being a full on damage boost

[ashen warren]

The debuffs are actually the weakest part tbf

[queen sail]

Said downside being negligible in most cases due to the abundance of slots you have

[tall furnace]

There is a health decrease for each one in your inventory

[ashen warren]

Even at -10hp you'd be dead if you had all of them

Which is what the new buffs would encourage.

[tall furnace]

Then don’t use all of them

[proven tide]

how does a health decrease matter?

[tall furnace]

Easier to kill as a decrease

[proven tide]

not only does it, after only a couple of items, start to really outweigh these now-useless benefits, but also it has zero relevance to any of their effects??

what is the point of this suggestion in the first place?

[hollow shell]

(saying "how does it matter" was kind of a weird way of wording that)

(sounded like you were talkin about the opposite of what you meant)

[ashen warren]

It would even favor nohitters even more for no reason.

There are already issues if you look at the full hp buffs on armor.

[queen sail]

Basically my main gripe with lore item boosts is that some of them are accessory tier yet aren’t affected by accessories’ main penalty

[lilac nacelle]

glass cannon lore item
quarter health
quad damage
lets go

[hollow shell]

oh right yeah it'd buff the heck outta them I think
Then again no-hitters don't really have to worry about inventory space

[ashen warren]

Exactly.

[hollow shell]

Are there already no-hit regulations on lore items?

[ashen warren]

On BoC I think?

Since it's just a RoD

[frail mantle]

also Yharon's

[queen sail]

BoC lore disabled during boss fights?

[ashen warren]

lmao

17 min flight time

Go ahead and put ravager lore in there for free

[queen sail]

Smh flight mastery soul...

[proven tide]

so are we going to address the fact that the reason has 'literally nothing' to do with the suggestion

[ashen warren]

Oh but it does, kinda, maybe.

They want accessory-level buffs without the slot limitations.

[tall furnace]

Not really accessory level because that would just be insanely op

[zenith hazel]

there are nohitting rules regarding lores, yes

[ashen warren]

Discounting that it would railroad people into a smaller and smaller inventory if they want to be the best, which they will want to be.

And having basically no health.

[zenith hazel]

for example, yharon and BoC lores are banned

[sand umbra]

you also can't use too many lores at once iirc

[zenith hazel]

you can have around 4 lores before your nohit gets cucked

4 lores that affect the outcome of the fight, not stuff like crabulon or EoC

[ashen warren]

providence and so on then?

[zenith hazel]

yea

[queen sail]

Prime, Prov, and DoG lore

[ashen warren]

Ravager lore is pretty spicy if you want partial defiled mode on.

[hollow saffron]

gotta love a doc with absolutely no context whatsoever

risky click of the day

[distant gyro]

untitled document

[wooden wedge]

I checked it earlier and it seems safe

But pretty specific item suggestions

[hallow kraken]

I have a fishy suspicion that some people are touching❕

But overall, I don’t like the suggestion

Why do the lores need reworks

[distant gyro]

people touch ❕ for the sake of touching it

because yes

some just do because they want to see big numbers go up

[hollow shell]

(I told him to add a summary to his message like 3 times)

[sand umbra]

(it's probably not happening at this point tbf)

[placid moth]

ping

[hollow saffron]

(just delete it tbh)

[teal ibex]

you can bring a horse to water, but you can't make it drink

it's a completely dead suggestion either way so

[potent veldt]

My main issue with the lores is just wildly inconsistant in power and usefulness they are

[lilac nacelle]

discount spore sac pre hardmode

[potent veldt]

EoC gives semi-useful night vision, BoC gives a really early RoD, Slime God gives a joke lore, basically

[teal ibex]

i don't necessarily disagree but that doesn't change how tactless this suggestion is

[potent veldt]

Oh, nah, the suggestion is nonsense

I wasnt really talking about the suggestion

[teal ibex]

the suggestion implies that every lore warrants changing despite the fact that only a few are even worth tweaking

fair

i don't really think the lores are that bad, each has their use and even the stronger ones give you interesting restraints

[zealous ridge]

It depends on what the purpose of the lores are

Like, in the case of niche but powerful bonus at the cost of some other stat there are a lot of lores that offer that

But there are some that I don’t really like for their ubiquitous usefulness or no real drawback

[sand umbra]

BoC lore needs to die

[zealous ridge]

[sand umbra]

thank you for coming to my TED talk

[zealous ridge]

I don’t like prov lore either

[sand umbra]

Provi lore is fine

literally half of its bonus sucks

[lilac nacelle]

why have crimson rod when you can have crimson RoD

[distant gyro]

prov lore is damage for lag

[tired haven]

Prov lore follows the major drawback smh smh

[zealous ridge]

What drawback, inventory space?

[tired haven]

Lag and dust cap

[zealous ridge]

[sand umbra]

you get unnecessary particles on all of your weapons

if Holy Flames were relevant on anything post-ML I might have inclination to believe it's overpowered

[potent veldt]

I like how in the suggestion, some of the changes aren't even fully coherent

[tired haven]

Relevant DoTs are a myth so

[sand umbra]

indeed

[zealous ridge]

Not saying it’s really overpowered I just don’t like the dynamic of how it’s bonus and drawback work

[distant gyro]

pretty funny because the first sugma I ever made is to reduce provi lore's particles

[potent veldt]

"inflict God Slayer debuff"
Read this as the lore inflicting it on you constantly

[void kelp]

buff player inflicted debuffs tbh

[sand umbra]

that said can we collectively petition to kill BoC lore and make something more unique with it

[potent veldt]

Not even sure what Scal's is meant to be

Make it give big brain energy

[lilac nacelle]

hey, the player gets an ankh charm, so why shouldnt all the enemies?

/s

[sand umbra]

Calamity logic in a nutshell

[potent veldt]

Make one of the lores make the player inflict 1 damage to everything

[void kelp]

yeah, BoC lore is just. why

[zealous ridge]

BoC lore shoots up those blood projectiles that boc shoots when you’re damaged? Sort of an alternative to the microbes

[void kelp]

tbh scal lore being a fuck you is at least in character

[sand umbra]

yes please

[void kelp]

so basically the super bleeding effect from fargo?

[sand umbra]

that way BoC lore isn't LITERALLY PRE-HARDMODE ROD OF DISCORD in the Crimson

like I'm sorry but that is busted

[teal ibex]

okay let's take a step back for a second

[zealous ridge]

I don’t know what that is spider but it sounds like a scary masomode mechanic

[teal ibex]

how good is a rod of discord after brain of cthulhu, honestly

are you willing to bring queen bee to a crimson biome? what about skeletron? do you need it for slime god?

[sand umbra]

Perfs.

[teal ibex]

so it's good against one boss

is it really that bad? really?

[potent veldt]

Its questionable

I wouldnt say its all that horrible, but its a weird one

[sand umbra]

...it's still pre-Hardmode RoD whilst in the Crimson

with everything that entails

[teal ibex]

questionable, sure. but let's not act like it's the end of an empire when it makes one boss slightly more trivial

[sand umbra]

it's not just during boss fights

[void kelp]

it just doesn’t make much sense

[teal ibex]

again, is that really that consequential? what are you using it for that's so groundbreaking?

[ashen warren]

ok so its useful in one biome that doesnt really spread

[hollow saffron]

^

[teal ibex]

rod of discord is insanely powerful because at the tier that it's in the bosses demand heavy movement, and rod makes that instantaneous

[distant gyro]

you can abuse boc lore harder but doubt that someone actually takes the effort

[ashen warren]

i think the more important question is do you care to stop the "muh optimization" group that will line the bottom of their arena with corrupt seed dirt to use the lore

[zealous ridge]

I don’t even dislike it for the fact that it’s a rod in the crimson, it’s just kind of boring and not really useful unless you’re doing some epic cheese strategy

[sand umbra]

Hardmode Crimson but ok

[distant gyro]

like who the fuck would unleash crimson in hell just to fight le woffle with bootleg rod

[ashen warren]

you get actual rod in hardmode but ok

[teal ibex]

in prehardmode the bosses don't demand that so rod is largely inconsequential. you don't need to make huge jumps rod grants you at this stage of the game

[sand umbra]

it's not even for boss fights

it's just really jarring from a design perspective

[teal ibex]

but yeah, i'd gladly sustain the claim that it doesn't really fit anywhere except for over-preparatory cheese

that's generally something i'd agree with

[sand umbra]

I'd honestly prefer if it actually had

[hollow saffron]

ngl its not like your world is gonna be 100% crimson in prehm

[sand umbra]

some use

on one hand, with overpreparation it becomes fucking stupid

on the other hand, if you're not overprepared it's literally useless

[hollow saffron]

but in the style of the crimson it should give you regen from hitting enemies

[sand umbra]

(and in Hardmode you can get the real deal pretty easily either way so that doesn't really help. /shrug)

[ashen warren]

are you suggesting pallad set bonus available pre hm at the cost of an inv slot

[placid moth]

Crimson Armor already gives some regen so

[sand umbra]

implying anyone cares about Crimson armor

[night cradle]

yes but while standing only
Palladium is a high amount of regen when just hitting enemies

[sand umbra]

(yes I know some people actually use it but the implication is that Shadow is better which it usually is shhhh)

[tired haven]

Let's not swap useless hm effect for actually broken hm effect

[zealous ridge]

Yeah my problem wasn’t really that it’s overpowered, my problem is that it sucks in so many situations and is marginally useful in only a few situations

I mean sure it’s banned in nohits but that’s only because it can be abused in very few situations (still a few, in which cases it can trivialize bosses)

[sand umbra]

BoC lore right now is very bipolar

it is either busted or literally useless depending on how you prepare

there is no in-between

[teal ibex]

nohit meta shouldn't be considered anyway frankly

[night cradle]

^

[tired haven]

Hot take: you don't need RoD utility to cheese bosses preHM

[zealous ridge]

It’s still something that people talk about, though

[teal ibex]

also there most assuredly is in-between and i don't understand the appeal of having constantly extreme opinions

[placid moth]

BoC lore could be useful when navigating hardmode underground and cavern crimson tbh

[sand umbra]

what is this in-between, then

tell me again how it's an in-between for exploration and such

when the exact same thing still applies there

[teal ibex]

i've used the lore on casual playthroughs as a get-out-of-jail free card and it's reasonable in regards to using it that way. not as a meta-defining item for fighting bosses, nor as a massive leaping utility when crossing the biome and underground

the point i'm making is less about rod of discord and more about general discourse, thomas

having an extreme opinion in such frequency is probably not healthy for actually coming to conclusions that benefit the discussion at hand

sometimes it's warranted but i see it a disproportionate amount lately and i'm honestly not a super big fan

especially since i agree with you a lot of the time too, it just feels detrimental to what's aiming to be achieved

[sand umbra]

I get very

heated

about these things.

[zealous ridge]

General discourse as in... like... movement across the biome and dodging basic enemies?

[teal ibex]

that's fair, i do as well sometimes and i get where it can come from

general discourse like discussions that occur in this channel

[zealous ridge]

Oh

Ah, I see

[sand umbra]

I think part of it is the fact that I'm used to literally every discussion I take part in within this channel getting extremely heated to the point where I have to fight tooth and nail to get my point across

I'm not used to this not being the case so I end up getting too heated over things too fast

[teal ibex]

it is kind of the meta, yeah for whatever reason

[zealous ridge]

I think bringing up the extreme side of things isn’t productive if it’s the predominant opinion because that just brings unnessecary heat to an otherwise civil conversation

I think it is the predominant opinion from a discourse perspective, like how people have to get very polarizing about things

[tired haven]

Because when you put a weight on further part of balance, it matters more

(dunno how to actually explain that in engrish)

[teal ibex]

i mean in the case of literally anything related to the rod of discord it's almost an expectation that there will be hellfire but i feel like it's probably not the best to just let that hellfire break loose

[zealous ridge]

I don’t think it really has to be hellfire, in all honesty

[teal ibex]

it absolutely doesn't, just winds up that way nearly everytime anyway. people are complacent about it and don't seek the better alternative because it's harder to sustain

[tired haven]

It's kind of an argument people do about rating systems

If there are 0 to 10 ratings, medium is 5 and you want it to be 4, you don't vote 4 but vote 0 because it's 5 times as effective

[teal ibex]

it's especially bad with rating systems because you can't actually express yourself. you have to compress an opinion into a number which makes it harder to give it any weight to begin with

we have the benefit of language in discord and part of that warrants the responsibility of speaking with positive intentions

but it gets lost in favor of the extreme to prove the point that is desired to be proven as quickly and powerfully as possible without actually considering the nuances of what makes things tick

i guess at the end of the day it can never be perfect, i just feel like it's been very not-perfect recently from what i'm watching and by calling attention to it hopefully it'll correct slightly, that's all

i don't think peeps have ill intentions but the way things manifest don't feel super great at all

[zealous ridge]

I agree that it gets heated in here sometimes

I just feel like conversations start extreme, from what I’ve seen

Sometimes at least

[potent veldt]

Well the main point of discussion is to get your point across, but it's also important to not go past your point.

[loud steeple]

It also depends on the suggestion itd starts off on

[sand umbra]

in any event

I do feel BoC lore is, above all else, jarring from a design perspective, mainly because of the effect it tries to imitate
RoD is, generally speaking, the most game-changing mobility item in the entirety of vanilla Terraria
but the effect really has nothing to do with the Crimson and is generally not that great to use amongst other lores unless you're in the Crimson for stuff in which case it is the only lore you need

honestly I think the BoC lore could benefit from something of a rework?
something to tie it a little better to the Crimson, kinda like how EoW lore is bootleg Spore Sac but with corrupt microbe things that make sense to exist

[tired haven]

make it inflict bleeding on enemies

[potent veldt]

I will admit easily that it doesnt fully connect to the crimson, as a lore item

[teal ibex]

it probably should be changed to something more fitting ye, like erupting into nettles on taking a hit or smth

[zealous ridge]

that’s what I thought would be a good change

[ashen warren]

maybe because brain of cthulhu lore connects to brain of cthulhu not crimson

[zealous ridge]

like those little boc projectiles he shoot

[sand umbra]

Eater of Worlds lore connects to EoW AND general Corruption though

[potent veldt]

Well even EoW and Hive's lores connect to the corruption, sort of

Id say make it a parellel with EoW's and make it inflict ichor while in crimson but

Ichor, eh

[sand umbra]

(stuff like those microbes would honestly make some great ambience in the underground Corruption especially)

Id say make it a parellel with EoW's and make it inflict ichor while in crimson but

br

that's literally Perfs lore

[potent veldt]

I know

[lost agate]

Uh, BoC teleports, theres some resemblance

[potent veldt]

Which makes no real sense

Lots of bosses teleport

[sand umbra]

...Hive Mind teleports too

[potent veldt]

Skeletron teleports

[sand umbra]

freakin' KS teleports, technically

[teal ibex]

give the player the triplicated mirror images tbh

you won't be able to see them because the player is centered

but you'll feel special

[zealous ridge]

There is some resemblance but it isn’t really a parallel to microbes

[lost agate]

Yes but neither rely on teleporting

BoC special attack is that

Teleporting everywhere

[ashen warren]

player gains shadow-dodge-esque shadow clones that all shoot your projectiles whenever you attack, definitely wont be balance hell

[teal ibex]

could just be a random dodge though. it'd be thematically similar to the whole brain image weirdness thing

YES terry

[sand umbra]

I thought BoC's special attack was inflicting half a dozen debuffs when it touches you and flinging a random Creeper that didn't die at you from 5 miles away

[zealous ridge]

[teal ibex]

masomode item soon ™️

[lost agate]

[sand umbra]

[potent veldt]

Maybe while in crimson you periodically spawn a creeper projectile that homes in on enemies for a few seconds?

BoC related

[lost agate]

Ah well

[tired haven]

EoW lore works anywhere so so would BoC

[teal ibex]

i actually do like the idea of a low-chance dodge but i feel like that's too strong

[potent veldt]

^^^

[teal ibex]

it'd be useful permanently so it'd probably stay in your inventory forever

[potent veldt]

PreHM that could be wacky

[teal ibex]

though if you kept the biome restriction it wouldn't be quite as bad since it'd require effort and reduced verticality, but then it's kind of fringe

lore design sucks

[tired haven]

Now, imagine
There is a mediocre chance that taking a hit triggers TP potion

[lilac nacelle]

stealth after hit?

[zealous ridge]

I don’t really like low chance dodges it feels like your attempts will be based partially on how lucky you get with dodges

[teal ibex]

LOL CRAB

[tired haven]

Cursed Skull from tboi gang

[teal ibex]

cursed eye more like

[ashen warren]

honestly? yes, except you only teleport within a screen's distance

[teal ibex]

literal worst item in the game

[tired haven]

smh

[zealous ridge]

[ashen warren]

it still completely fucks your rhythm when the dodge procs

[sand umbra]

honestly
taking a hit has a small chance to instead teleport you somewhere completely fucking random in a mild radius of about half a screen

[tired haven]

That's what terry said

[sand umbra]

I was agreeing with him yes

[tired haven]

[ashen warren]

me omw to proccing boc lore during yharon and tp'ing directly into a border nado

[sand umbra]

the good part is that you don't take the would-be damage

the bad part is that you now have no idea where you are

[ashen warren]

me omw to getting tp'd out of sc arena

[sand umbra]

lore design is a wonderful thing isn't it

[lilac nacelle]

and then you get hit right after the boss fight
and get teleported into a small hole surrounded by crimstone you can't mine yet

its gonna happen and you know it

[teal ibex]

get hit by DoG segment
teleport to hed
monch

[tired haven]

Tbh it should be more punishing than currently discussed effect but eh

[zealous ridge]

Truly the best effect

[sand umbra]

it's a high-risk, probably-high-reward design choice

a high IQ, high reward setup, if you will

[lost agate]

Except theres no reward

[sand umbra]

therefore it's fine

[loud steeple]

How bout you get shadow Dodge?

[lost agate]

You only get randomly taken somewhere

[teal ibex]

oh btw can i really quickly interject

[tired haven]

High iq won't save you from 4doghead

[teal ibex]

did we ever find a solution to crafting/reobtaining lores?

[lost agate]

Its more harmful than anything

Like literally in any boss

[tired haven]

You really think so? Because then it's a perfect lore

[lost agate]

Get hit by perfs, get disoriented then shot

[ashen warren]

that's the idea of the tp, to counterbalance it being a potential black belt-type dodge that takes no acc slots and is available pre hm

[lost agate]

Get hit by skelly, disoriented then maybe tped on

[ashen warren]

[tired haven]

[ruby cobalt]

good

[lost agate]

Get hit by SG, disoriented then maybe run into mines

[ruby cobalt]

three times as good

[teal ibex]

ok ok so what i'm hearing is

increased i-frames after teleport

[lost agate]

Get hit by wof, hf not tping somewhere bad

[ruby cobalt]

omega good

[teal ibex]

this is literally the ONLY time i-frames could have an interesting application in this game

and i'm kind of a fan

[lost agate]

I would literally not use that lore item

[teal ibex]

i absolutely would tbh

[lost agate]

Ever

[sand umbra]

I would also use it

[lost agate]

Its disorienting af

[teal ibex]

it's not particularly good but it sounds kinda stupid and fun LOL

[tired haven]

I would for lulz probably
Not on hardcore but yknow

[ashen warren]

i'd use it

[ruby cobalt]

see, here's the thing

it doesn't have to be always good

look at SG

[sand umbra]

SG lore

[tired haven]

Cal doppel lore

[sand umbra]

also SCal lore ig

[ruby cobalt]

if you're making it permanently good then you just fucking

[lost agate]

Have you ever tried that one item in tboi that can tp you to somewhere when hit?

[ashen warren]

i'll take getting disoriented if it means i dont take damage for getting hit

[ruby cobalt]

shoot yourself into the balls with a sawed-off

yes, cursed eye

it's good if you know how to use it

[tired haven]

Yes

[ruby cobalt]

if you don't then you fuck yourself permanently

[teal ibex]

cursed eye is not an okay example because it restarts your room and it's THE WORST HTING

OF ALL TIME

EVER

[tired haven]

Extremely nice on keeper iirc

[ruby cobalt]

just warp into the boss room

lmao

[ashen warren]

also cursed eye tp doesnt prevent you from taking damage

[teal ibex]

i mean ok but keeper is self imposed torture to begin with

[lost agate]

Ah whatever

Maybe BoC lore doesnt have to be useful, but EoW is

So...

[ruby cobalt]

same philosophy as concoction

[tired haven]

That's the "only useful on lost, then useless item" mindset and I despise that hec

[teal ibex]

no literally i just

keeper is actively a not fun character

[tired haven]

And then there is an item to help with him

[teal ibex]

because he's just discount lost with some free-win items

[ruby cobalt]

he's a worse lost

[teal ibex]

so even if the item is good on him i wouldn't be having fun with it it'd just be extended pain

like yeah ok it is good and that is fair but keeper sucks ok

[ashen warren]

we're still doing sugma discussion right?

[tired haven]

(anyway, we went too far)

[teal ibex]

theoretically

also i think i missed something

you intended for it to prevent damage terry?

[ashen warren]

yes

[lost agate]

Anywho, dodging an attack to potentially land into another

Thats a no from me

[teal ibex]

i was thinking you'd get hit and then booted elsewhere with i-frames to get your act together

[ashen warren]

when the dodge procs, you get i-frames, dont get hit by the attack, but get tp'd away randomly

[ruby cobalt]

dodging a fatal hit to potentially die anyways

[tired haven]

i wish I could say the same for like third of lores

[lost agate]

Yeah but how many i frames

[ashen warren]

lets say 1sec for now

[lost agate]

Not enough to get oriented

[tired haven]

Standart belt gives about 1.33

[ashen warren]

good

[teal ibex]

i mean tbf most bosses at post-boc are either shooting slow projectiles or charging you

so you also have that distance as reaction time as well

slime god and wall generally would counter it if you get unlucky so it's not particularly useful there

[lost agate]

Yeah but lore items arent only used on their tier

[tired haven]

BoC lore

[lost agate]

Its just a "i guess it works for now"

[teal ibex]

i mean, i typically progressively lessen the amount of lore items in my inventory in a playthrough

idk if that's the standard trend but it's how i usually play

[lost agate]

Yeah but its not only about you

Its about general usage

[ashen warren]

there will be times the dodge saves you and times you get hit anyway because you tp'd somewhere bad, which is fine because if the dodge procced you already got out of one hit for free

[tired haven]

I usually accumulate about 8 lore items heh

[teal ibex]

i'm aware? i can't propose how other people use an item, shucks

i can only speak from my personal experience and how i would suppose it may impact players

[lost agate]

Well, i have serious orentation problems

[teal ibex]

that's fair, i don't think it'd be a good fit for everybody by any stretch

[lost agate]

And even if i dont get hit instantly after the tp, im gonna get beyond stressed and confused

[teal ibex]

it's more of a gamble-style item to begin with anyway, which is inherently not a lot of people's cup of tea

[lost agate]

Cuz idk where i am or wtf im gonna do

[tired haven]

Tbh consider the following
Half the time teleport would be in inner radius of 20 blocks which won't even affect most of the moves, at least in earlier fights

[lost agate]

It wont affect the moves and the bosses

But it sure affects the player

[ashen warren]

anyway hect you wanna write the sugma?

[tired haven]

Also, about always viable lores, that's imho worse design than situational but unique things like this one, even if in general stat boosts are used more

[lost agate]

And tbf, do we want another case of brain of confusion vs worm scarf?

[teal ibex]

i could write it ye but gimme a sec

[lost agate]

Imo

If you wanna make boc lore so weird

[teal ibex]

i also have another lore related suggestion in mind but i'm not sure if you can craft/reobtain lores in the same world yet

[lost agate]

Eow lore has to get a punch too

[tired haven]

SG lore no one ever uses unironically (after the dash mount fix at least) but it's great lore item

[teal ibex]

i mean i don't think it's that bad of a dichotomy shucks

i think it'd be a case of practical vs wildcard stuff

[sand umbra]

EoW lore is already pretty situational wh

[teal ibex]

the practical lore is EoW, it's objectively good but not super consequential

[tired haven]

If it has to get a punch now, why didn't Boc lore get a punch on release?

[teal ibex]

the wildcard is BoC, it's a loose cannon but can potentially save an entire fight

[lost agate]

Crab

Seriously

[teal ibex]

i get the disorientation thing, i used to have horrible visibility problems on like half of the calamity bosses like a year ago

[lost agate]

Youre a tester, you should know just well that getting balance right first try is a mission impossible most of the time

[tired haven]

I'm pretty aware yes

[lost agate]

So idk what that argument even was

[tired haven]

I just don't understand why to change EoW lore now in case of changing BoC

[lost agate]

Whatever, just a bad experience i have ig

Dont feel like arguing this for an hour

[teal ibex]

i don't think your experience is invalid shucks i think it's just a bit uncommon, it's like my visibility with certain attacks being worse than most it seems

i completely lose attacks that other people have no problem seeing but it happens, at the end of the day it doesn't cause that much harm in the grander scheme

lemme write up the thing

[tired haven]

on slightly different topic yeah, EoW lore isn't an insta-pick because it has pierce iframes and thus ineffective in hardmode, which is honestly good touch

[lost agate]

I mean, if people want that, who am i to stop it

I just wanted to state out my problems with it

[teal ibex]

what kinda cooldown were we thinking btw. i'm assuming like 30s or higher probably

[lost agate]

Wait so is it random or in a cooldown

[teal ibex]

i assumed it was a cooldown but i hadn't made sure yet

actually why bother being particular

devs can just decide if it gets sent

[ashen warren]

i figured random, like 5 or 10% chance

[tired haven]

I assumed it would be 5% chance

[lost agate]

Well good thing it wasnt both lmao

[tired haven]

Random on cooldown
eclipse mirror

[zealous ridge]

[lost agate]

Yeah but eclipse mirror does a blast that does a crap ton of dmg

Not just dodge

And also gives full stealth

[teal ibex]

Proposed Brain of Cthulhu Lore Rework

Current BoC lore is extremely fringe. Its utility boils down to a get out of jail free card, an extreme cheesing method, or a means to skip exploring the Crimson biome. Here's a discussed proposition to repurpose the item to be a bit more interesting while still keeping its relation to the boss:

-- If the player were to take damage, they will instead be teleported away somewhere within the boundaries of the screen, avoiding the damage.
-- Upon teleporting, the player will receive extended i-frames to regain their footing and to prevent immediate damage.
-- The effect would trigger randomly at a 5-10% chance upon potentially taking damage. It could also be on a cooldown if preferred.

am i missing anything?

besides my incorrect usage of its

[tired haven]

That was about the trigger principle mostly, so w/e

[teal ibex]

i did it twice why am i grammatically bankrupt

[zealous ridge]

[ashen warren]

post it

[teal ibex]

ok now also

there are no ways to obtain lore if you accidentally dispose of it on a world, right? you just have to make a new world or cheat it in?

[tired haven]

Yes?

let's add statis NPC who would collect lores and sell them in a separate dialogue window

[teal ibex]

i had the thought last night that to remedy that you could craft lore items from boss trophies, since they both represent the boss and it'd require reasonable effort from the player to repeat the fight

though i think aquatic scourge still doesn't have a trophy so uuUUHH

unless he does in which case i'm wicked stupid gamer

[sand umbra]

AS trophy is still a good meme iirc

[ashen warren]

no sc trophy

[teal ibex]

you don't deserve to recraft scal lore tbh

[tired haven]

You could craft scal lore from unused ks trophy tbh

[teal ibex]

NO KING SLIME DESERVES LORE DON'T DSJAKFDAOFW

either way i'll post it later and either it'll go through or i'll get flamed

[hollow shell]

I was thinkin that BoC lore sounds pretty powerful
5-10% chance to dodge
but then again it would be quite disorienting upon triggering, and Black Belt is a 10% chance already

I guess the only thing I can think wrong with it is that it's pretty complex for a lore item
Sounds more like an accessory

[ashen warren]

Place in your inventory for a low chance to dodge attacks by teleporting

[hollow shell]

Then again
Cryo lore and EoW lore are pretty accessory-like

so even that's prolly fine

[sand umbra]

byeah, EoW lore is literally bootleg Spore Sac but useful and Cryo lore gives a free dash

I'd say this proposed BoC lore rework is just fine

[rocky trench]

Yeah it would definitely work

[ruby hound]

It sounds good, just please, make it a cooldown and not random

[hollow shell]

I feel like it'd be too strong if it was on a cooldown

Unless the cooldown was like fuckin
5 minutes

[ruby hound]

you're overestimating it

[hollow shell]

right

10 minutes

[ruby hound]

1 minute sounds fine

[ashen warren]

[ruby hound]

although lategame-wise it doesn't

[hollow shell]

Being able to avoid a hit every minute is pretty frickin strong for not taking up an accessory slot and getting it near the beginning of the game

[ashen warren]

5% chance suffices

[hollow shell]

Sure the teleportation is disorienting but you just negated damage

[sand umbra]

I'd like you to remember that this is a literal black belt-style dodge

teleport or not

and the boss that drops it is the Brain of Cthulhu

[ashen warren]

putting it on a consistent timer would make it bootleg titanium set bonus, which. bruhhh

[sand umbra]

there's a reason Titanium is retarded and it's because Shadow Dodge functions on a cooldown

[ruby hound]

for not taking up an accessory slot
Oh yeah, why did I think it will take one

[ashen warren]

[ruby hound]

then I propose it debuffing you

[sand umbra]

br

[ruby hound]

because random chance really sucks

[hollow shell]

ehhh maybe
Every time you teleport-dodge you get slowed n' reduced life regen n' shit

[sand umbra]

it sucks for shit like Shadow Dodge and the Mirror line because they're not designed to work that way

this is designed with random chance in mind

[hollow shell]

Makes it easier to get hit in your new location and harder to get health back and all that

[ruby hound]

it should be semi-op in pre-hardmode and total shit in hardmode, like it's counterpart

[sand umbra]

okay but like at that point just make it the Brain of Confusion rework that nobody wanted

[ruby hound]

imo

[hollow shell]

Maybe

[sand umbra]

a lore item doesn't need to be complicated like this

the way it's presented in the sugg already is fine, tbf

[hollow shell]

yeah

Even as it is it's pretty complicated, considering it's an all-new effect

which none of the lore items have iirc

[sand umbra]

mhm

adding a cooldown as well would make it Shadow Dodge 0.5, and we all know how retarded current Titanium armor is to balance against

[cloud surge]

Brain of confusion rework that just confuses the player instead

[ruby hound]

oh yeah, just make the lore cause confusion debuff after it works

ignoring any immunity

that also works as something semi-op but annoying

[tired haven]

SG lore is pretty complicated too, and so is EoW

[ruby hound]

hi Crab

[sand umbra]

SG lore literally has like half the lactose intolerance of the world built into it

[distant gyro]

sg lore is simultaneous brain expansion and shrinkage

[sand umbra]

even though the cheese in question was probably the only thing making it even remotely good in the first place

[ruby hound]

EoW lore is just spore sac but with lowered damage

And slime god lore just adds already existing effect to you aswell as lowering your defence

[sand umbra]

the base effect is really impractical

[ruby hound]

while the BoC lore will do something that hasn't been done before in calamity

and in vanilla terraria

[sand umbra]

...and???

[ruby hound]

uh

idk

[sand umbra]

fuck it, extra points for actual creativity

[ruby hound]

the base effect is really impractical
Which one

[sand umbra]

SG lore

[ruby hound]

it's pretty useful actually

[sand umbra]

Frozen Slime Block effect is weird

[ruby hound]

I used it when I didn't have my boi breaker

And Hero's mod

[sand umbra]

in return you get lowered defense and nerfed dash speed

[queen sail]

Sg lore is

[ruby hound]

Yeah but when you need to go through the whole large world you don't really care about defence or dash speed

you care about your running speed

plus you can always just hide it into the pig

[queen sail]

Your movement gets fucked and it takes some defense

[ruby hound]

as I said

pig

[queen sail]

Or just trash it

[gusty geode]

@ Durion#1250 firsttime.png

[cloud surge]

Sg lore is good for making a sky bridge when you don't wanna keep tapping a or d

[ruby hound]

that's some creative argument right there

[queen sail]

...i mean

You’re not wrong

[sand umbra]

...I would argue against you

but also that is a very niche, but valid argument

and a very relevant one considering that the boss you're expected to fight directly thereafter generally requires a very long bootleg skybridge

[queen sail]

just leave a gumball jar on the movement key like i do

[sand umbra]

I never considered this, but now that I do it has become relevant to me again

your movement will outpace placing stuff

[queen sail]

I mean yeah thomas but there’s vertical movement too

[sand umbra]

...wut

how is vertical movement relevant to a bootleg skybridge

[queen sail]

WoF fight

[sand umbra]

they don't mean for the fight itself

they mean for creating the generally-required arena

boss fighting is not all there is to this game, as much as the mod would often like you to believe otherwise

[queen sail]

Imagine having the time and resources to build an entire skybridge mid prehm

/s

[tired haven]

It is the easiest post-EoC pre-everything else tbf, minimum enemies to bother you and maximum planterboxes

[ruby hound]

I think I've made my skybridge pre-skeletron

[ruby hound]

btw why planterboxes and not platforms

[frail mantle]

planter boxes are ez to obtain

[tired haven]

Because cutting down a thousand trees < buying a few stacks of planterboxes

[frail mantle]

^

[ruby hound]

Doesn't seem like that to me but who am I to argue about this with CrabBar

[runic heath]

if the movement works like it does with frozen slime blocks (ie no acceleration) then you could ideal reach a speed that can match your placement speed and as such not outspeed it