#suggestions-discussion | Calamity Mod Discord | Page 736

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 1:11 AM

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AND THEN EVERYTHING AND ITS DOG IS IMMUNE TO IT

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echdemon

ashen warren Dec 4, 2019, 1:11 AM

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LUL

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 1:12 AM

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yet CI and Ichor, two debuffs that shouldn't have anything to do with it, are fine to cut DR and gain universal vulnerabilities because yes

hearty yew Dec 4, 2019, 1:20 AM

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ichor/ci are the only two supported debuffs

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and ci is only supported for fairness' sake

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this mirrors vanilla, where there is only one debuff: ichor

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 1:20 AM

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happyfish

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what even is the point of Marked

hearty yew Dec 4, 2019, 1:21 AM

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basically: calamity hasn't fixed the problem

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what's the point of holy flames

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flavor

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 1:21 AM

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you make a convincing argument

hearty yew Dec 4, 2019, 1:22 AM

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I'm not trying to make an argument I am trying to explain the situation as I see it

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 1:22 AM

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I know

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HDfailure

zealous ridge Dec 4, 2019, 1:22 AM

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what do you mean by flavor?

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if you dont mind me asking hah

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 1:22 AM

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most debuffs in Calamity solely exist to add flavor/atmosphere to the shit that inflicts them

radiant meadow Dec 4, 2019, 1:22 AM

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flavor is like cosmetics

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like why say deathwind inflicts on fire and frostburn?

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for the visuals

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 1:23 AM

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(neither of these actually do anything at the tier you get Deathwind)

radiant meadow Dec 4, 2019, 1:23 AM

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even though it has almost no effect at that tier

zealous ridge Dec 4, 2019, 1:24 AM

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but like... what? that's such an odd argument to me

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first and foremost i question why these debuffs really do anything if theyre for the cosmetics anyways

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is that not the case for only certain debuffs?

radiant meadow Dec 4, 2019, 1:26 AM

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they do something because they're vanilla debuffs that are designed for early game

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like with flaming and frostburn arrows

zealous ridge Dec 4, 2019, 1:26 AM

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but i dont think we're talking about the same thing then

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because i thought we were talking about cal debuffs

radiant meadow Dec 4, 2019, 1:26 AM

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I was using deathwind inflicting on fire & frostburn as an example

zealous ridge Dec 4, 2019, 1:26 AM

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yeah okay

radiant meadow Dec 4, 2019, 1:27 AM

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but clam debuffs like holy flames do have some effect at some stages of the game

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although it's most prominent post moon lord so that's probably an issue

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 1:27 AM

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namely, with weapons that inflict them way earlier than the tier they're supposed to be inflicted

radiant meadow Dec 4, 2019, 1:27 AM

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ark of the ancients taxevasion

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 1:28 AM

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you read my fucking mind

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I was just about to cite that as an example

radiant meadow Dec 4, 2019, 1:28 AM

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elemental mix on the twins hellyes

queen delta Dec 4, 2019, 1:28 AM

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hellyes

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 1:28 AM

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the only time you'll ever unironically use Holy Flames or Elemental Mix

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txvsn

zealous ridge Dec 4, 2019, 1:28 AM

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so holy flames and marked...don't exist for the cosmetics?

radiant meadow Dec 4, 2019, 1:29 AM

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holy flames is often used for cosmetic purposes though

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 1:29 AM

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TAotA inflicts Mix too btw

radiant meadow Dec 4, 2019, 1:29 AM

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I think marked is more designed as an enemy debuff rather than a player debuff

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because I know marked magnum is shit for example

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 1:29 AM

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Marked is a meme

radiant meadow Dec 4, 2019, 1:29 AM

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literally half the bosses in prehardmode don't have dr

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and those that do have like only 5%

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with the exception of wof mouth

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 1:30 AM

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and by the time that 50% reduction becomes pertinent to using Marked Magnum...

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congrats, you can't inflict it

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txvsn

radiant meadow Dec 4, 2019, 1:30 AM

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you would think marked would be good for bosses like plant and fishron, but they don't have dr either

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 1:31 AM

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the bosses that have high enough DR for Marked to matter generally can't be inflicted with Marked

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con?in?versely, the bosses you can commonly inflict Marked on are virtually unaffected by it

radiant meadow Dec 4, 2019, 1:32 AM

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it's really just a passive for summoners ngl

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and a rev+ mechanic to punish players

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 1:32 AM

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that makes me wonder why the player's even able to inflict it in the first place

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echthink

zealous ridge Dec 4, 2019, 1:33 AM

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if anything it's proof that ichor is just always going to be the better more reliable option anyways

radiant meadow Dec 4, 2019, 1:33 AM

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ichor is also way easier to inflict and can be more universally applied

zealous ridge Dec 4, 2019, 1:33 AM

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mhm thats what i mean

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 1:34 AM

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virtually nothing resists Ichor (or CI but nobody cares about CI)
a ton of shit inflicts it
and it is stupidly powerful, granting a sizable direct boost to all your weapons' DPS on nearly anything

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there is no reason to get any other debuff

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you hate to hear it but them's the facts

radiant meadow Dec 4, 2019, 1:37 AM

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brb, adding a debuff that sets dr and defense to zero taxevasion

zealous ridge Dec 4, 2019, 1:39 AM

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smh just add it to demon flames

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 1:41 AM

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deadass

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just make that a Demon Flames effect

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it's endgame content anyway TaxEvasion

tired haven Dec 4, 2019, 1:42 AM

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BR, uh

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failure

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 1:43 AM

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nobody cares about BR smhmhmhshsmhmshmhs

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also just to remind you

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everything in BR is immune to Demon Flames

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CompleteFailure

queen sail Dec 4, 2019, 1:48 AM

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Why does every mod (and vanilla) stick with “Ichor must remain the only relevant debuff”

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ech

cosmic wraith Dec 4, 2019, 1:52 AM

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is defense hard capped

versed mica Dec 4, 2019, 1:55 AM

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No

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I don’t think so

radiant meadow Dec 4, 2019, 1:59 AM

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I removed the blanket debuff immunities in br for next update

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so demon flames will affect stuff now (not everything though)

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 2:05 AM

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NPCPartyGirlCheer

radiant meadow Dec 4, 2019, 2:06 AM

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the entire reason for the blanket immunities was because of vanilla enemy buff cap crap

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but clam debuffs circumvent the debuff cap now

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 2:17 AM

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ooooo

zenith hazel Dec 4, 2019, 4:50 AM

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@carmine island implementation of that scrapped theme is frequently suggested already, read the suggestion don’ts doc in the pins

carmine island Dec 4, 2019, 4:59 AM

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My bad. Didnt see the doc til now. sad

tepid root Dec 4, 2019, 6:26 AM

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how do you make painting tools more unique thonk

hollow idol Dec 4, 2019, 6:28 AM

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yknow, I look at that doc and see astra got marked down to not being able to be referenced, yet syntax error is still in there despite it being removed ages ago

grand badger Dec 4, 2019, 6:51 AM

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paint bucket feature, tool with larger area of effect (like a 3x3 brush), doesnt consume paint etc

pallid crag Dec 4, 2019, 7:02 AM

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Has someone suggested The Rock being placeable?

grand badger Dec 4, 2019, 7:02 AM

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Yes. A lot of people

pallid crag Dec 4, 2019, 7:03 AM

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Oh, nevermind then

swift wadi Dec 4, 2019, 7:21 AM

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People really want more out of that joke item smh

zenith hazel Dec 4, 2019, 7:44 AM

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@tardy stump there already is an art server, invite is in #info

tardy stump Dec 4, 2019, 7:45 AM

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Oh

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Thx

zenith hazel Dec 4, 2019, 7:47 AM

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np

zenith hazel Dec 4, 2019, 8:48 AM

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why? @bright mountain

bright mountain Dec 4, 2019, 8:48 AM

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I don't know

zenith hazel Dec 4, 2019, 8:48 AM

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then why did you suggest it?

bright mountain Dec 4, 2019, 8:48 AM

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i dont know lol

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let me think

zenith hazel Dec 4, 2019, 8:49 AM

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add a reason, please

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at least put your suggestion here first so people can discuss

bright mountain Dec 4, 2019, 8:49 AM

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ok

lucid marsh Dec 4, 2019, 9:36 AM

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Is my suggestion good?

teal ibex Dec 4, 2019, 9:41 AM

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i would definitely prefer it tbh

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but it is kinda against the point of the shrines

ashen warren Dec 4, 2019, 9:48 AM

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rod of discord, actuators, and hoiks exist.

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kinda kills dungeons and so on

teal ibex Dec 4, 2019, 9:59 AM

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murasama is post-yharon anyway

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you can shred literally everything regardless LOL

distant gyro Dec 4, 2019, 10:02 AM

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'can easily locate underworld shrine after yharon is dead

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it's always on the bottom right of the map

quartz hare Dec 4, 2019, 10:35 AM

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xbxbxb123, very good

karmic stone Dec 4, 2019, 10:47 AM

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finding the Murasama is basically luck currently
It's literally the easiest one to find next to the abyss shrine

lilac nacelle Dec 4, 2019, 10:48 AM

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it always spawns in the bottom right side of the world

karmic stone Dec 4, 2019, 10:48 AM

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~~Btw easiest one to find /=/ easiest one to get to~~

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^ @lucid marsh

lilac nacelle Dec 4, 2019, 10:48 AM

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like within a screen or two from the absolute bottom-right corner

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 12:36 PM

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tbh why even is there a melee and mining speed cap

karmic stone Dec 4, 2019, 12:36 PM

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For the sake of Yoyos

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 12:42 PM

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melee speed cap is because yo-yos are lol

tired haven Dec 4, 2019, 12:43 PM

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(and because 1frame swords are lul)

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(presumably)

tepid root Dec 4, 2019, 12:44 PM

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mining speed cap tho thonk

tired haven Dec 4, 2019, 12:44 PM

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Mining speed cap is, again, vanilla idea, likely to not make new pickaxes irrelevant via buffs

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Since even current cap allows to almost quadruple the speed

distant gyro Dec 4, 2019, 12:46 PM

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Terraria wants DCU to be worth while HDfailure

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 12:48 PM

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uncap the mining speed stat and let DCU be affected

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txvsn

tepid root Dec 4, 2019, 12:50 PM

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hellyes

thin shale Dec 4, 2019, 12:56 PM

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tbh, Plaguebringer Goliath is easier than Leviathan

void kelp Dec 4, 2019, 12:56 PM

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iirc mining cap is also bc tools stop working if you reduce the usetime too much since it loops into infinity

small talon Dec 4, 2019, 12:57 PM

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Tbh, I had no damn clue the hp jump on Levi was that big holy crap

thin shale Dec 4, 2019, 12:57 PM

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I know

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I feel like they should be nerfed

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 12:57 PM

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Astrum Aureus has a similar health spike conceptually, but it's much less noticeable because it's still within reason

thin shale Dec 4, 2019, 12:57 PM

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Since I find Duke easier than those two

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Not gonna lie

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 12:58 PM

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Siren and Levi are just go big or go home

distant gyro Dec 4, 2019, 12:58 PM

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Rev Plantera has about 40k more than it seems iirc

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 12:58 PM

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Siren alone, who is supposed to be the less relevant one in the fight, has over half the HP of Plantera

distant gyro Dec 4, 2019, 12:58 PM

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Since you have to take down all her tentacles before dealing decent damage

thin shale Dec 4, 2019, 12:58 PM

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It took me 4 tries to beat Death Duke Fishron in my 2nd Death Mode playthrough while it took me 12 tries to beat Siren and Levi after the 1.4 update

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 12:59 PM

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and Levi is just uber fat with 300k calawheeze

small talon Dec 4, 2019, 1:00 PM

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I think they should either cut 1/3rd of Levi's health, and nerf the rev to death health jump, or nerf it's defense and DR

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Siren is ok where it is, she is mega squishy

thin shale Dec 4, 2019, 1:01 PM

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The pre 1.4 update’s Levi and Siren deserved that Post-Plantera title but post 1.4... not anymore

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They can be Post-Duke

small talon Dec 4, 2019, 1:03 PM

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I don't think they should be moved, cuz then there is one sub boss in the post-plantera branch and three in the post-golem branch

distant gyro Dec 4, 2019, 1:03 PM

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I'm pretty certain ye

thin shale Dec 4, 2019, 1:03 PM

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But nerf them

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Especially Levi

small talon Dec 4, 2019, 1:03 PM

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If they swapped it with a post-golem boss then sure

distant gyro Dec 4, 2019, 1:03 PM

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Levi is supposed to be the gap between plant and golem

swift wadi Dec 4, 2019, 1:03 PM

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I agree that Siren and Levi are too strong for their position in the game, and they have fairly underwhelming weapons and accessories for every class I've played, they feel irrelevant to progression other then The Community, high risk no reward

thin shale Dec 4, 2019, 1:03 PM

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Can agree

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Exactly

tired haven Dec 4, 2019, 1:04 PM

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Tbh it amuses me how levi and siren went from "haha too ez buff em" to "hell incarnate" with a simple addition of levi dash

thin shale Dec 4, 2019, 1:04 PM

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Lel

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Pre 1.4 Levi is way easier

swift wadi Dec 4, 2019, 1:05 PM

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Levi dash < Slime mount calawheeze

thin shale Dec 4, 2019, 1:05 PM

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Took me 2 tries compared to 12 post 1.4

distant gyro Dec 4, 2019, 1:05 PM

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the thing that happens when you add a difficult attack to an endurance fight

small talon Dec 4, 2019, 1:05 PM

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Levi dash is not too difficult to dodge, unless you don't have rod calawheeze

distant gyro Dec 4, 2019, 1:05 PM

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it gives a huge difficulty curve even if it's a small change

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actually

tired haven Dec 4, 2019, 1:05 PM

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(apparently that's lies, levi's hitbox is too big for slime mount to dodge that consistently)

(and oh well, ofc RoD makes things ez)

distant gyro Dec 4, 2019, 1:06 PM

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the perfect way to counter siren and levi is none other than...

Flying Carpet.

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 1:06 PM

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RoD is fantastically bruh

thin shale Dec 4, 2019, 1:06 PM

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Can relate

distant gyro Dec 4, 2019, 1:07 PM

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(like actually, the fact that flying carpet prevents you from falling into a water spear up your ass help deal with 90% of all other attacks)

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 1:07 PM

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honestly, even with RoD, the situations you can get into with a dash from a being of Levi's sheer size and strength are pretty fucking stupid sometimes

distant gyro Dec 4, 2019, 1:07 PM

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plus levi is kinda fat and chases after you

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two birds in one stone, underrated strat

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 1:08 PM

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and Levi likes starting charges whilst you are booping her snoot with your big flashy bootleg pew-pew boom-boom stick for some reason

small talon Dec 4, 2019, 1:09 PM

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Does Levi still have that big part of it's hitbox below it's chin that is really annoying?

teal ibex Dec 4, 2019, 1:09 PM

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levi's charge attack is awesome it's just a little icky with siren around

thin shale Dec 4, 2019, 1:09 PM

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Adrenaline Timing -> When Levi reaches 50% health

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 1:09 PM

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ah yes, the best part of the fight

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Levi's nonexistent chin

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was that fixed or no

thin shale Dec 4, 2019, 1:09 PM

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When Levi’s down, Siren’s pretty much a straightforward fight

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Since I managed to finally beat the boss after beating Levi

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On first go

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 1:10 PM

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see, each opponent in the fight is very straightforward on their own merit

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the issue is when you have both at once

thin shale Dec 4, 2019, 1:10 PM

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Ye

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 1:10 PM

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everything goes to shit very quickly

small talon Dec 4, 2019, 1:10 PM

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And in DM you fight both from the very beginning

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 1:11 PM

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YEP

teal ibex Dec 4, 2019, 1:11 PM

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~~i prefer it that way~~

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 1:11 PM

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so the fight just kinda bruhs all over you from the start

teal ibex Dec 4, 2019, 1:11 PM

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pushing one of them into second phase before the other even spawns is like ew ew ew ew ew

thin shale Dec 4, 2019, 1:11 PM

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Even using Undine’s Retribution isn’t helping me that time (That weapon’s actually good against Fishron)

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 1:11 PM

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and if you don't have a game plan right out the gate, you're fucked

zealous ridge Dec 4, 2019, 1:15 PM

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Double encounters just aren’t fun in my experience

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There are ways to do it right though

distant gyro Dec 4, 2019, 1:16 PM

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rebel assertion that both siren and levi should spawn at the same time in rev-

zealous ridge Dec 4, 2019, 1:17 PM

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I would like that if I felt siren and Levi were designed around each other well

distant gyro Dec 4, 2019, 1:17 PM

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instead of forcing you to fight 50%- siren (which is where she uses the fabled charging inside you attack) with leviathan who is a block on her own

zealous ridge Dec 4, 2019, 1:18 PM

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That’s part of the problem, yeah
You arguably have very little space to maneuver leaving you with monolithic options

distant gyro Dec 4, 2019, 1:18 PM

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in death mode the player gets to make a judgement on who to melt, that's a grand reasoning too

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HDfailure

teal ibex Dec 4, 2019, 1:20 PM

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yeah no i'd really prefer that decision to get ported to rev

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i don't even remember which you have to lower the hp of but at one point it was the opposite of what i wanted to do and switching to rev for the fight felt way worse than death because i lacked the option to choose

void kelp Dec 4, 2019, 1:21 PM

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or even just like

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you can dodge siren easily but once you have to deal with an enemy who’s like half the size of your screen you can’t really do anything

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not without struggling at least

swift wadi Dec 4, 2019, 1:23 PM

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My biggest problem is also reward

thin shale Dec 4, 2019, 1:23 PM

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I agree

swift wadi Dec 4, 2019, 1:23 PM

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I've done 4 different class pts past siren, and never once used a weapon from them

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Melee, Ranger, Mage, Rogue

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Never once, other than community

thin shale Dec 4, 2019, 1:24 PM

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And speaking of rewards, some of DoG’s items are not as good as expected

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Like Deathwind

zealous ridge Dec 4, 2019, 1:25 PM

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Summoner has pearl of enthrallment for HOTE but that’s it lmao

swift wadi Dec 4, 2019, 1:25 PM

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So, two accessories, one being a legendary item

thin shale Dec 4, 2019, 1:25 PM

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And the weapons are no good

swift wadi Dec 4, 2019, 1:26 PM

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You end up killing Astrum with the same weapons, Levi killed or not

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 1:26 PM

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Siren and Levi drops are not that good

swift wadi Dec 4, 2019, 1:26 PM

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She has no place in the progression, she's so optional it hurts

thin shale Dec 4, 2019, 1:26 PM

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Only the Rogue drop is what I’m looking for

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 1:26 PM

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and they are absolutely not worth the shitfest you go through to get them

swift wadi Dec 4, 2019, 1:26 PM

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You kill her to kill her, not for any reward other then two items

thin shale Dec 4, 2019, 1:27 PM

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Tbh, I defeated both Siren and Levi after beating Moon Lord in one of my Death Mode playthroughs

twilit swan Dec 4, 2019, 1:27 PM

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There are always certain items that are extremely OP and items that are outclassed by items lower in the progression than them. Calamity is great and all, but it needs some serious balancing tweaks

swift wadi Dec 4, 2019, 1:27 PM

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That's what I did first, what did I lose? nothing

signal prairie Dec 4, 2019, 1:27 PM

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One major and really the only major problem about siren is most of the homing weapons (thats not Chlorophyte bullets) don't home in fast enough to hit her most of the time.

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 1:27 PM

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see the thing of it is

thin shale Dec 4, 2019, 1:27 PM

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Also some of Yharon’s drops are useless

twilit swan Dec 4, 2019, 1:27 PM

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Like what?

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 1:27 PM

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most homing shit just sees Levi and goes

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"it's free real estate"

thin shale Dec 4, 2019, 1:28 PM

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Dragon Rage

swift wadi Dec 4, 2019, 1:28 PM

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I don't have a hard time hitting Siren

twilit swan Dec 4, 2019, 1:28 PM

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Oh fair point, it's DPS could use a buff

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It's like a JV Burning Sky

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 1:29 PM

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ngl siren's confusion debuff was absolute hell the first time i ncountered it

tired haven Dec 4, 2019, 1:29 PM

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Funnily enough, all homing goes to levi but summons don't

crimson rose Dec 4, 2019, 1:29 PM

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lads

zenith hazel Dec 4, 2019, 1:29 PM

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which homing weapons don't catch up to siren?

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 1:29 PM

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pretty sure summons are programmed to prioritize Siren at this point

crimson rose Dec 4, 2019, 1:29 PM

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i agree in levi

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 1:29 PM

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CompleteFailure

crimson rose Dec 4, 2019, 1:30 PM

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on

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 1:30 PM

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for the simple reason that summoners would cry otherwise

crimson rose Dec 4, 2019, 1:30 PM

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si

zenith hazel Dec 4, 2019, 1:30 PM

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I'm like 90% sure minions focus down on levi first

swift wadi Dec 4, 2019, 1:30 PM

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You can focus summons tho

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So i mean

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HDfailure

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 1:30 PM

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and we already have one ocean boss that makes summoners weep in fear

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OmegaFailure

zenith hazel Dec 4, 2019, 1:30 PM

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ok now that's just wrong

swift wadi Dec 4, 2019, 1:30 PM

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The duke?

zenith hazel Dec 4, 2019, 1:30 PM

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res butterfly is good for duke

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 1:31 PM

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pre-butterflies summoners, specifically

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or those that don't know it exists because the chad Vigil exists for most of Hardmode

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:p

zenith hazel Dec 4, 2019, 1:31 PM

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well that's not a thing anymore, is it?

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res butterfly exists now, duke shouldn't be too much of a problem anymore

twilit swan Dec 4, 2019, 1:32 PM

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Duke Fishron and Yharon are the most annoying to me because of their fast movesets and quick but powerful attacks. Dodging all of their attacks is insanely difficult

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 1:32 PM

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fair enough

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butterflies make summoner Duke actually tolerable thinkies

twilit swan Dec 4, 2019, 1:32 PM

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True that

swift wadi Dec 4, 2019, 1:33 PM

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I dont play summ so I could be wrong, but are we saying "an item you can get before duke fishron makes duke fishron pretty alright for summoners"

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Because like

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I would hope so

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 1:33 PM

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ye

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 1:33 PM

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personally i think duke fishron is all fun and games until deathmode

twilit swan Dec 4, 2019, 1:33 PM

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I always go melee. Yes, I'm that guy

quartz hare Dec 4, 2019, 1:33 PM

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play semi-summoner

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 1:33 PM

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Res Butterfly was specifically designed to fight the Duke because everything else for summoner falls flat

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 1:33 PM

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i could easily beat it on all modes except death

zenith hazel Dec 4, 2019, 1:33 PM

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anyway, go back to levi & siren please

swift wadi Dec 4, 2019, 1:33 PM

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Yeah off topic

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 1:33 PM

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byeah

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Siren and Levi

crimson rose Dec 4, 2019, 1:34 PM

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just died to him FalloutThumbs

karmic stone Dec 4, 2019, 1:34 PM

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Levi and Siren are females ech

twilit swan Dec 4, 2019, 1:35 PM

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Then stack deathmode with masochist mode from Fargo's Mod and add Prefixes for Enemies as well as Good Luck Have Fun mod. Then, Eye of Cthulhu has twice the amount of attacks, around 25000 HP and 350 DMG. I've never won a boss fight with that level of difficulty

swift wadi Dec 4, 2019, 1:35 PM

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Different boss different mod, we should stay on siren and levi

twilit swan Dec 4, 2019, 1:36 PM

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Well those mods give them 1.1 Million HP and twice the damage so yeah

zenith hazel Dec 4, 2019, 1:36 PM

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not relevant to the discussion

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 1:36 PM

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^

thin shale Dec 4, 2019, 1:36 PM

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This should go to #other-mod-talk

swift wadi Dec 4, 2019, 1:37 PM

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They seriously have balancing issues, from the jump up from rev to death, their placement in the order of bosses being too early, and their weapons being so, so useless

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 1:37 PM

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fargo's doesnt make the base calamity fight harder unless you install it

swift wadi Dec 4, 2019, 1:37 PM

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I'd love to see a rework with the new resprite

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Would give new life to the boss

thin shale Dec 4, 2019, 1:37 PM

#

I agree

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 1:37 PM

#

but for real siren is fine if you dont get confused

#

everything goes downhill if theyre both on low health tho

#

NEVER have both of them be low

twilit swan Dec 4, 2019, 1:38 PM

#

Eh thought I'd bring it up because it makes boss fight such as the Siren and Leviathan much easier. There will always be imbalances in mods, and the Siren and Leviathan fight is very unbalanced in progression, but if you start from somewhere basically impossible, it will make any boss fight easy, even Deathmode siren and leviathan with only Post-plantera weapons

teal ibex Dec 4, 2019, 1:38 PM

#

are the drops actually that bad? i could swear i've seen use of brackish flask, leviatitan, pear of enthrallment for crafting, all the fishing items, and community

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 1:38 PM

#

DM siren and levi is fine imo

teal ibex Dec 4, 2019, 1:38 PM

#

which is like half the pool

zenith hazel Dec 4, 2019, 1:38 PM

#

yeah but we're talking about solely calamity, not other mods

teal ibex Dec 4, 2019, 1:38 PM

#

how good does it need to be hecticHmm

zenith hazel Dec 4, 2019, 1:38 PM

#

that's what calamity is balanced around, itself.

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 1:38 PM

#

Pearl of Enthrallment is purely useful as a HotE ingredient

swift wadi Dec 4, 2019, 1:38 PM

#

^

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 1:38 PM

#

brackish flask is kinda outdone by the dustorm in a bottle

thin shale Dec 4, 2019, 1:38 PM

#

Siren is okay but Levi’s disgust

zenith hazel Dec 4, 2019, 1:39 PM

#

but it's still good

teal ibex Dec 4, 2019, 1:39 PM

#

so are all the other hote ingredients

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 1:39 PM

#

Leviatitan is good maybe but Conference Crutch and friends exist

swift wadi Dec 4, 2019, 1:39 PM

#

Yeah I had no need for Brackish as rogue

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 1:39 PM

#

everybudy gangsta until levi starts dashing

twilit swan Dec 4, 2019, 1:39 PM

#

The Siren and Leviathan Drops are kinda trash and they do need to be buffed for the difficulty of the boss fight

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 1:39 PM

#

speaking of which, how would a big fish dash

teal ibex Dec 4, 2019, 1:39 PM

#

leviatitan should be marginally worse but acceptable as you don't have to work for it so that seems fine to me

thin shale Dec 4, 2019, 1:39 PM

#

That’s the point

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 1:39 PM

#

its not a sailfish, it cant accelrate fast

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 1:39 PM

#

as you don't have to work for it

you have to fight Siren and Levi for it in the first place

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 1:39 PM

#

atlantis is like never used lmao

teal ibex Dec 4, 2019, 1:39 PM

#

i'm still not sure why they're trash? like, of the items they drop, i only see 4 that i've never seen utilized

zenith hazel Dec 4, 2019, 1:40 PM

#

atlantis was used when deus was still post-plantera iirc

#

not too sure about now

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 1:40 PM

#

oh yeah then

#

lmao

teal ibex Dec 4, 2019, 1:40 PM

#

i mean, yes, but most players fight bosses in order and required effort should not be considered relative to optional effort

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 1:40 PM

#

you see Community used all the time, but never at the tier you fight Siren and Levi at

crimson rose Dec 4, 2019, 1:40 PM

#

dm siren and levi are just generally at such a bad place in the boss order

zenith hazel Dec 4, 2019, 1:40 PM

#

it's good if you have nothing to fill in that last slot

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 1:40 PM

#

but you generally do have something to fill in that slot

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 1:40 PM

#

^

thin shale Dec 4, 2019, 1:41 PM

#

The only time I used the accessory is when I was beating SCal

swift wadi Dec 4, 2019, 1:41 PM

#

Yeah my ranger is full rn

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 1:41 PM

#

something that, at the tier you wouldd obtain Community, is better and easier to handle/obtain

thin shale Dec 4, 2019, 1:41 PM

#

Where the Community is at its most powerful

queen delta Dec 4, 2019, 1:41 PM

#

Only few weapons are actually capable of doing good damage to levi

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 1:41 PM

#

i never even used the community lol

thin shale Dec 4, 2019, 1:41 PM

#

Terra weapons used to be effective

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 1:41 PM

#

even with how hard Calamity tries to consolidate everything into one accessory, in the post-Plantera playing field there's plenty to fill your 5-6 acc slots with

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 1:41 PM

#

i think its underpowered for a legendary

green pumice Dec 4, 2019, 1:41 PM

#

~~hue conference dq~~

thin shale Dec 4, 2019, 1:41 PM

#

I first defeated the boss with a Terra Edge

queen delta Dec 4, 2019, 1:41 PM

#

And only few weapons are capable of catching up to siren without excellent aim

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 1:42 PM

#

mangrove chakram worked for me

#

same with the duststorm in a bottle

crimson rose Dec 4, 2019, 1:42 PM

#

ballistic poison bomb vs siren is really fun

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 1:42 PM

#

^

thin shale Dec 4, 2019, 1:42 PM

#

Terra Blade vs Siren

swift wadi Dec 4, 2019, 1:42 PM

#

Ranger has been the only class I would say has an "easy" time with Levi, and that's because of lulok bow from Plantera

thin shale Dec 4, 2019, 1:42 PM

#

That’s the fun for me

swift wadi Dec 4, 2019, 1:42 PM

#

Aka blossom flux

teal ibex Dec 4, 2019, 1:42 PM

#

ballista is also good

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 1:42 PM

#

^

zenith hazel Dec 4, 2019, 1:42 PM

#

most classes are good against the duo tbh

green pumice Dec 4, 2019, 1:43 PM

#

conference dq says lol bows

swift wadi Dec 4, 2019, 1:43 PM

#

my mage could not beat them lol

green pumice Dec 4, 2019, 1:43 PM

#

txvsn

zenith hazel Dec 4, 2019, 1:43 PM

#

except summoner because obvious

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 1:43 PM

#

personally il ike using the ballista vs aureus tho

zenith hazel Dec 4, 2019, 1:43 PM

#

not everyone uses conference call

#

not everyone nohits either

thin shale Dec 4, 2019, 1:43 PM

#

I don’t

swift wadi Dec 4, 2019, 1:43 PM

#

What are these weapons

green pumice Dec 4, 2019, 1:43 PM

#

~~i know~~

signal prairie Dec 4, 2019, 1:43 PM

#

Mage prolly struggles the absolute most

swift wadi Dec 4, 2019, 1:43 PM

#

I don't have these lmao

crimson rose Dec 4, 2019, 1:43 PM

#

ive tried aureus with ballistic which is eh

thin shale Dec 4, 2019, 1:43 PM

#

I used the common variant of it

#

Conclave Crossfire

zenith hazel Dec 4, 2019, 1:43 PM

#

mage has lashes of chaos for levi and terra ray/undine's for siren

green pumice Dec 4, 2019, 1:43 PM

#

conclave is still sex

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 1:44 PM

#

just

Greentide is meme last I checked
Leviatitan may be good but Conference Crutch, Conclave Crossfire, P90, and several other pre-Siren/Levi options exist that are better and in many cases easier to obtain
Atlantis was useful until Deuces Wild got moved
what the fuck is a song, this isn't bard
what the fuck is a lure, for that matter
Ambergiggity is lol and used for an equally lol mega-accessory
everything fishing-related can be obtained beforehand relatively easily (Angler farming is not that bad at that point either, what with SBTBFS and Feral Double Rod)
Community is useful, but not at the tier you'd obtain it normally

zenith hazel Dec 4, 2019, 1:44 PM

#

astralachnea too if that's your thing

thin shale Dec 4, 2019, 1:44 PM

#

It shreds PG with Chloro bullets

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 1:45 PM

#

conclave crossfire + chloro bullets
enjoy your useless loot

swift wadi Dec 4, 2019, 1:45 PM

#

~~marking the conclave as a weapon I need~~

signal prairie Dec 4, 2019, 1:46 PM

#

Undines is too slow and Terra Ray just doesn't have the DPS to kill her in good time and Lashes of Chaos is good if you can stack the explosions, which requires blocks to get a solid stacking going

swift wadi Dec 4, 2019, 1:46 PM

#

Terra ray isn't bad

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 1:46 PM

#

undines is better for fishron iirc

swift wadi Dec 4, 2019, 1:46 PM

#

For Levi

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 1:46 PM

#

I'd like to remind you that these drops need to compete with Perennial Bar stuff, post-Plantera Dungeon items, the shit Aureus unlocks, AND options from the seasonal moons

crimson rose Dec 4, 2019, 1:47 PM

#

for me the biggest problem is siren

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 1:47 PM

#

and in a lot of cases, options amongst those are easier to get and work better for immediate progression thereafter

crimson rose Dec 4, 2019, 1:47 PM

#

i can kill leviathan with ballistic

zenith hazel Dec 4, 2019, 1:47 PM

#

Levi's a big ass target, lashes of chaos is good for her

crimson rose Dec 4, 2019, 1:47 PM

#

but then it is rather eh vs siren

zenith hazel Dec 4, 2019, 1:47 PM

#

wrath of the ancients is also a good support weapon

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 1:48 PM

#

honestly if there were a weapon (like notorious BIG) that homed in on the fastest enemy, it could work for siren

swift wadi Dec 4, 2019, 1:48 PM

#

it took me pillar weapons to kill her as mage

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 1:48 PM

#

lmao

swift wadi Dec 4, 2019, 1:49 PM

#

Yeah just add fucking Stands

#

They could probably kill her

crimson rose Dec 4, 2019, 1:49 PM

#

should i just skip levi at this point for now ?

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 1:49 PM

#

something like it

swift wadi Dec 4, 2019, 1:49 PM

#

Although we'd need to die for BIG to work...

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 1:49 PM

#

😳

#

bruh

swift wadi Dec 4, 2019, 1:49 PM

#

Anyway

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 1:49 PM

#

how bout not dying

swift wadi Dec 4, 2019, 1:49 PM

#

Levi is very skippable

crimson rose Dec 4, 2019, 1:49 PM

#

good idea

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 1:49 PM

#

like kill an evoker dude

#

siren and levi offer nothing of insane value

crimson rose Dec 4, 2019, 1:50 PM

#

ig aureus/golem instead

swift wadi Dec 4, 2019, 1:50 PM

#

Aureus unlocks a few good items

crimson rose Dec 4, 2019, 1:50 PM

#

yeah but is quite a pain at this stage

swift wadi Dec 4, 2019, 1:51 PM

#

I mean your stage in the game doesn't really change after Levi

#

Which is the main problem

crimson rose Dec 4, 2019, 1:51 PM

#

yes

#

i can get aureus to 80k-100k health but then shit goes downhill quickly

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 1:52 PM

#

honestly aureus spawns are annoying

crimson rose Dec 4, 2019, 1:52 PM

#

yes

swift wadi Dec 4, 2019, 1:52 PM

#

Stay on Levi topic or go to mod talk plz

crimson rose Dec 4, 2019, 1:52 PM

#

kk

swift wadi Dec 4, 2019, 1:52 PM

#

Or another suggestion

#

in the channel

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 1:53 PM

#

ok minimod

swift wadi Dec 4, 2019, 1:53 PM

#

ok boomer

crimson rose Dec 4, 2019, 1:53 PM

#

eh ill try golem

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 1:53 PM

#

ok boomer

crimson rose Dec 4, 2019, 1:53 PM

#

si

zenith hazel Dec 4, 2019, 1:54 PM

#

get the hell back on topic, now.

#

can't even use this channel for more than 5 minutes without people being people

swift wadi Dec 4, 2019, 1:55 PM

#

Someone suggested a way to locate shrines a while ago, I have a weird idea, in the game Spelunky there's a part where you locate a hidden area using a beeping sound that gets more frequent the closer you are, that would be cool if it could be implemented to find shrines

#

Also I hope you don't mean me Brav, i tried :c

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 1:56 PM

#

people will be people, yes

in any event, the big takeaway here is that Siren and Levi bring way too much challenge with an entirely too sharp difficulty and statistical spike for entirely too little reward

swift wadi Dec 4, 2019, 1:56 PM

#

Yes

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 1:56 PM

#

i agree

teal ibex Dec 4, 2019, 1:56 PM

#

man, such extreme opinions

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 1:57 PM

#

I'm just tellin' it like it is

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 1:57 PM

#

there really is no extrinsic motivation to beat it

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 1:57 PM

#

there's very little if any reason to fight them on-tier

teal ibex Dec 4, 2019, 1:57 PM

#

i don't disagree that siren and levi could be tweaked, but holy moly. the drop pool isn't that bad. people will fight the boss on almost every playthrough and if they want to get better weapons they can. 90% of players just trash boss drops anyway, even if they are good.

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 1:57 PM

#

I mean fair point

#

stuff you can craft is almost always superior to boss drops without fail

#

HDfailure

queen sail Dec 4, 2019, 1:57 PM

#

Tbh

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 1:58 PM

#

but like. half the drops aren't really impressive even if you do keep them

teal ibex Dec 4, 2019, 1:58 PM

#

terror blade was a MASSIVELY slept on weapon for nearly a year because people just didn't bother with them. as much as i'd like boss drops to be cool and interesting, it objectively isn't worth the effort because the predisposition is there

queen sail Dec 4, 2019, 1:58 PM

#

I mostly just fight siren and levi because their boss drops are Enchantment ingredients

teal ibex Dec 4, 2019, 1:58 PM

#

and you can't change how people think, they're gonna assume the drops aren't as valuable because they frankly probably should be

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 1:58 PM

#

The weapons from siren and levi are easily outclassed by weapons from similar tier bosses

#

and the hardmode dungeon

zenith hazel Dec 4, 2019, 1:58 PM

#

not all of them

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 1:58 PM

#

AA and the astral unlocks are much better

queen sail Dec 4, 2019, 1:58 PM

#

You literally saw the stream

#

ech

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 1:59 PM

#

How many times have you used Leviatitan brav

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 1:59 PM

#

I remember Brackish Flask in particular standing out as a consistently good reward for beating the duo

zenith hazel Dec 4, 2019, 1:59 PM

#

lemme ask you this, would you use titan arm over greentide?

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 1:59 PM

#

Outclassed by the duststorm

queen sail Dec 4, 2019, 1:59 PM

#

Yes

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 1:59 PM

#

yes

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 1:59 PM

#

I dont use either

swift wadi Dec 4, 2019, 1:59 PM

#

And Steller Knives are one boss away

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 1:59 PM

#

because there is nothing superior to yeeting people across the world

zenith hazel Dec 4, 2019, 1:59 PM

#

then why are you saying the astral unlocks are way better?

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 1:59 PM

#

TaxEvasion

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 1:59 PM

#

Because I dont do true melee brav

distant gyro Dec 4, 2019, 1:59 PM

#

I would use sandwich shocker over both of those

#

or Mantis Claws

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 1:59 PM

#

I use other weapons

#

Astralachnea staff is epic

distant gyro Dec 4, 2019, 2:00 PM

#

which are directly below both Titan Arm and Greentide

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 2:00 PM

#

love him or hate him

alt over here spittin' facts

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:00 PM

#

Mantis claws lol

distant gyro Dec 4, 2019, 2:00 PM

#

also : Nebulash

queen sail Dec 4, 2019, 2:00 PM

#

You gotta admit that siren and levi’s drops are outdated tbh

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 2:00 PM

#

Sub Sandwich Shocker is the best meme

distant gyro Dec 4, 2019, 2:00 PM

#

HDfailure

swift wadi Dec 4, 2019, 2:00 PM

#

Nebulash

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:00 PM

#

Nebulash is yes

queen sail Dec 4, 2019, 2:00 PM

#

They haven’t changed except atlantis

#

Which became a trident

#

And enthrallement pearl maybe

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:01 PM

#

a useless* trident since AD was moved

teal ibex Dec 4, 2019, 2:01 PM

#

also as a sidenote, am i insane or is this not an issue with nearly every boss drop pool

distant gyro Dec 4, 2019, 2:01 PM

#

lure of enthrallment HahaYes

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:01 PM

#

the pearl is actually kinda cool lol

queen sail Dec 4, 2019, 2:01 PM

#

I mean, hec

teal ibex Dec 4, 2019, 2:01 PM

#

like i don't see why siren/levi pool is a standout besides the "they're hard" disposition

queen sail Dec 4, 2019, 2:01 PM

#

I use terror blade

distant gyro Dec 4, 2019, 2:01 PM

#

it used to be a sentry staff lole

queen sail Dec 4, 2019, 2:01 PM

#

HDfailure

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 2:01 PM

#

I want to argue against you

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:01 PM

#

hec, not all bosses have this issue though

#

like calamitas

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 2:01 PM

#

but also literally half of ML's drop pool exists

#

CompleteFailure

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:01 PM

#

entropy's vigil is epic

#

blossom flux

teal ibex Dec 4, 2019, 2:02 PM

#

i don't disagree with the idea that boss drops should be good but it seems distracted when the boss itself is the problem tbh

swift wadi Dec 4, 2019, 2:02 PM

#

I mean Plant, Astrum and Golem are near Levi and they have a lotta nice stuff imo

teal ibex Dec 4, 2019, 2:02 PM

#

entropy's is ok but then there's a yoyo and animosity

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:02 PM

#

siren and levi are overhard and undergood

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 2:02 PM

#

Oblivion is decent

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:02 PM

#

^

distant gyro Dec 4, 2019, 2:02 PM

#

it's under the basis that hard bosses should give rewarding items in return

#

which I would be neutral about in this subject

teal ibex Dec 4, 2019, 2:02 PM

#

oblivion is decent but how many people actually want to use yoyos when cool sword weapons

#

hey wow it's the same problem

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:02 PM

#

yoyo playthrough taxevasion

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 2:02 PM

#

but why sword weapon when yo-yo that shoot lasers

teal ibex Dec 4, 2019, 2:03 PM

#

because i'm not 4. hecticSmug

#

~~i'm kidding yoyos are fun~~

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 2:03 PM

#

txvsn

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:03 PM

#

😳

queen sail Dec 4, 2019, 2:03 PM

#

Why sword weapon when you can just cheese the game with ranger

#

ech

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:03 PM

#

why use ranger when you can burn your enemies using homing magic

teal ibex Dec 4, 2019, 2:03 PM

#

but anyway, i digress, siren and levi could be adjusted and i think what would be wisest is nerfing the collective by slowing them down, kind of like how scal used to operate with the brothers alive

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:03 PM

#

actually this is getting offtopic again

#

i agree hec

queen sail Dec 4, 2019, 2:04 PM

#

But tbh the drops should be adjusted imo

teal ibex Dec 4, 2019, 2:04 PM

#

once one is dead the other can snap to current ai and i think the general issue is fixed without a: being a massive workload and b: completely changing the boss

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 2:05 PM

#

honestly just slowing the two's stuff down when together would solve like

teal ibex Dec 4, 2019, 2:05 PM

#

why? there's 1 solid drop, 1 decent drop, a crafting drop, fishing utilities, a powerful lategame acc, and a few filler items

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 2:05 PM

#

nearly everything

queen sail Dec 4, 2019, 2:05 PM

#

Even if you fix the fight to not be a pain in the ass they’ll still probably be skipped over (unless Enchantment memes) because the drops are outshined by other weps on the same tier

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:05 PM

#

either nerf the boss or buff the weapons

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 2:05 PM

#

because 90% of the issues of the fight come from the fact that both Siren and Levi are Speedy McFastFish

teal ibex Dec 4, 2019, 2:05 PM

#

i don't think the majority of players skip bosses

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:05 PM

#

what is this Enchantment im too boomer to know about

queen sail Dec 4, 2019, 2:05 PM

#

Fargo stuff

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:05 PM

#

oh

ashen warren Dec 4, 2019, 2:05 PM

#

nerf levi popech

queen sail Dec 4, 2019, 2:05 PM

#

Armor set bonuses but accessories

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:05 PM

#

hi terry

queen sail Dec 4, 2019, 2:05 PM

#

He

#

HDfailure

#

Also yeah i agree that levi’s ungodly fast

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:06 PM

#

not to mention that when its health is low it charges really fast

#

and often when youre trying to evade the siren's charges too

teal ibex Dec 4, 2019, 2:06 PM

#

please don't nerf the charges

#

god that attack is so good it's just brought down by the other issues

zenith hazel Dec 4, 2019, 2:07 PM

#

fat hitbox

queen sail Dec 4, 2019, 2:07 PM

#

don’t nerf the charges

teal ibex Dec 4, 2019, 2:07 PM

#

hitbox doesn't even matter if you play your movement right

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 2:07 PM

#

the Levi charge would be better if it couldn't start 2 inches from your ass

#

HDhurdur

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:07 PM

#

honestly the charges (especially sirens downward one) are just guaranteed damage

teal ibex Dec 4, 2019, 2:07 PM

#

literally i cannot describe enough how consistent and rewarding the charges are if you play your cards right

queen sail Dec 4, 2019, 2:07 PM

#

biggest hitbox in the game at lightspeed

#

ech

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:07 PM

#

guaranteed damage doesnt help you with dodging

teal ibex Dec 4, 2019, 2:07 PM

#

the reason everybody gets hit by charges is because you're using reactionary dodging

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:07 PM

#

and as a result it doesnt encourage skill as much

zenith hazel Dec 4, 2019, 2:07 PM

#

tl;dr movement is key for siren and levi tbh

queen delta Dec 4, 2019, 2:07 PM

#

Levi charge is fine itself ye but the fact that theres other stuff involved that could stop you means levi charge should be nerfed

teal ibex Dec 4, 2019, 2:08 PM

#

if you premeditate your movement you will not get hit by the charges (when levi is alone)

ashen warren Dec 4, 2019, 2:08 PM

#

when levi is alone

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:08 PM

#

^

teal ibex Dec 4, 2019, 2:08 PM

#

i won't defend it in the collective fight right now because it is not, in fact, fair

#

but the charge itself is not the issue

zenith hazel Dec 4, 2019, 2:08 PM

#

the charge isn't like that bad, except that the other stuff exist

#

the summons, whatever they are

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:08 PM

#

the charge combined with other stuff is torture

queen delta Dec 4, 2019, 2:08 PM

#

Levi has tanky af minions that love to fuck you over, and if siren is alive, GLHF

zenith hazel Dec 4, 2019, 2:08 PM

#

aquatic aberrations

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:08 PM

#

yes

queen delta Dec 4, 2019, 2:08 PM

#

Paraseas

zenith hazel Dec 4, 2019, 2:08 PM

#

one of them has the old siren charge iirc

#

so like have fun with that lol

granite owl Dec 4, 2019, 2:09 PM

#

nerf levi? taxevasion

teal ibex Dec 4, 2019, 2:09 PM

#

all i'm saying is pls don't nerf charge it's cool get rid of annoying homing projectiles and summons tyvm

queen sail Dec 4, 2019, 2:09 PM

#

So basically

queen delta Dec 4, 2019, 2:09 PM

#

And has 4000 health and you see at least 2 of them alive at a time

#

How about levi gets his regular charge back when siren dies but nerf charge while shes alive

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:09 PM

#

yes

#

i concur]

teal ibex Dec 4, 2019, 2:09 PM

#

that is also fair

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 2:10 PM

#

why are the summons even there

queen sail Dec 4, 2019, 2:10 PM

#

• Siren and Levi big ech
• Inconsistent movesets that make for a very annoying fight
• Stats taxevasion
• And summons for flavor ig
• Drops are half worth the suffering

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 2:10 PM

#

what do they add to the fight

zenith hazel Dec 4, 2019, 2:11 PM

#

nyoom

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:11 PM

#

the summons just dance on your grave if you die

ashen warren Dec 4, 2019, 2:11 PM

#

regenerating damage sponges ech

queen delta Dec 4, 2019, 2:11 PM

#

They have way too much health ech

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 2:11 PM

#

good job, terry, you get a gold star

(please remove these fucking summons, they don't actually contribute much of anything to the fight at all)

ashen warren Dec 4, 2019, 2:11 PM

#

polterclone momentous

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:11 PM

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i could see aquatic abberations/paraseas working as post-siren/levi enemies

queen sail Dec 4, 2019, 2:11 PM

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That’s it, really

quiet abyss Dec 4, 2019, 2:12 PM

#

Before this starts escalating into nonstop circlejerking I suggest that y'all just make a suggestion or two to fix all these issues with Levi/Siren's fight like you have all stated, and be done with the topic quickly.

teal ibex Dec 4, 2019, 2:13 PM

#

i would suggest the general slowdown and snapping back to normal ai after one is downed but chaining

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:13 PM

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@quiet abyss that would be suggestoin chaining

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taxevasion

quiet abyss Dec 4, 2019, 2:14 PM

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Instead of just nitpicking an admittedly improper part of my statement to make a dumb joke, I suggest you start taking my words seriously, please.

queen sail Dec 4, 2019, 2:14 PM

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Honestly

#

I feel like levi and siren should get reevaluated

zenith hazel Dec 4, 2019, 2:14 PM

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it’s not chaining if it’s an entirely different idea, insights on how to fix the fight

quiet abyss Dec 4, 2019, 2:14 PM

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And ^

zenith hazel Dec 4, 2019, 2:14 PM

#

Franswal only said to rebalance it

queen sail Dec 4, 2019, 2:14 PM

#

If it’s got this big of a convo going

zenith hazel Dec 4, 2019, 2:15 PM

#

what other ideas do you people have?

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:15 PM

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nerf charges

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also who is gonna post this

queen sail Dec 4, 2019, 2:15 PM

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Make the drops worth the effort

quiet abyss Dec 4, 2019, 2:15 PM

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Have you not read what Hec said, at all?

zenith hazel Dec 4, 2019, 2:15 PM

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make a coherent post please

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:15 PM

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yes i did

queen sail Dec 4, 2019, 2:15 PM

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Instead of being good for one class and sell filler for others

zenith hazel Dec 4, 2019, 2:15 PM

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don’t just say “nerf charges” and expect stuff to be done

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:15 PM

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ofc i would elaborate

#

bruh

teal ibex Dec 4, 2019, 2:16 PM

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it is solid for one, good for another, has 2 relevant accessories, and gives a boost to fishing

#

i don't understand what your boss drop expectations are

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:16 PM

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the thing is that im unsure of if we can all post our own individual ideas

#

because chaining

zenith hazel Dec 4, 2019, 2:16 PM

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that’d be flooding and confusing

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:16 PM

#

yeah

zenith hazel Dec 4, 2019, 2:16 PM

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agree on one general idea

quiet abyss Dec 4, 2019, 2:16 PM

#

^

queen sail Dec 4, 2019, 2:16 PM

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Their only fishing drops are potions and the lava hook

#

ech

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:17 PM

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should we conduct a vote or just make one sugg with all the ideas

teal ibex Dec 4, 2019, 2:17 PM

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sponge and endless bucket too

#

people like to make artificial pools and don't always use luiafk

queen sail Dec 4, 2019, 2:17 PM

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Yes but what’re you gonna do with those

#

taxevasion

zenith hazel Dec 4, 2019, 2:17 PM

#

that’s just as confusing

#

or too many ideas in 1 sugg

queen sail Dec 4, 2019, 2:17 PM

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You probably have a lake nearby

teal ibex Dec 4, 2019, 2:17 PM

#

anyway, i'll write up an actual boss change concept and you can all feel free to suggest nitpicks and additions

#

different biomes exist

#

you do not have a lake in every biome ever

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 2:18 PM

#

to give my two cents:
considerably slowing down Siren and Levi when both are alive would honestly be a great change that would likely fix the majority of issues that exist within the fight
many of the problems with the Siren/Levi fight rn is that too much shit is happening too quickly and it's entirely too hard to figure out what you're doing

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:19 PM

#

Remove Aquatic Abberations/Paraseas from the Siren and Levi fight

Reason: These summons add literally nothing of value to the fight except dancing on your grave when you die. Perhaps making them a post-Siren and Levi enemy that spawns in the ocean would be more useful.

distant gyro Dec 4, 2019, 2:19 PM

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I think it's cool that Siren is fast and Levi is slow

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:19 PM

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levi dash tho

zenith hazel Dec 4, 2019, 2:19 PM

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the dash is manageable if your movement is good enough

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:19 PM

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also has the downwards siren dash been removed

#

or no

distant gyro Dec 4, 2019, 2:19 PM

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But both bosses don't always go by that rule

zenith hazel Dec 4, 2019, 2:20 PM

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siren does reaper shark charges now

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:20 PM

#

oh

#

ok

#

that might be mroe manageable

#

imma have to play the mod again lol

distant gyro Dec 4, 2019, 2:20 PM

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Siren occasionally stops to spit her tunes, and Levi occasionally do a fast dash below 50%HP

teal ibex Dec 4, 2019, 2:20 PM

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Suggested changes to Siren and Leviathan

Firstly, implement Deathmode's feature of spawning both simultaneously to Revengeance. The choice to force a phase change should fall on the player, and this gap in difficulty is a bit jarring to begin with.

Secondly, when both bosses are alive, have their attack patterns and movement be slowed down to some extent similar to the former SCal AI when the brothers were alive. The greatest qualm mentioned in the fight currently is that the bosses work excellently alone, but create extreme difficulty when combined. By slowing the bosses down slightly, the imposed difficulty is reduced without significantly altering the experience of either boss, and the pacing of the fight better introduces you to what the bosses can do.

Additionally, the summons from Leviathan are relatively unpopular and do not service the fight significantly, so they are a reasonable candidate for removal as well.

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:20 PM

#

epic lethal banger tunes

teal ibex Dec 4, 2019, 2:21 PM

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anything else? i'm not bothering with adjusting the pool. i don't believe it to be necessary and it can be suggested elsewhere by people who do

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 2:21 PM

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seems like a gamer plan to me

zenith hazel Dec 4, 2019, 2:21 PM

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does anyone else have any problems with levi’s death hp other than Franswal?

teal ibex Dec 4, 2019, 2:22 PM

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i was never particularly bothered by it, it's kinda fitting

distant gyro Dec 4, 2019, 2:22 PM

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I'm fine with a fat fish who has a fat amount of life

#

it does make sense

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 2:22 PM

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yeah, it makes sense when you think about it

zenith hazel Dec 4, 2019, 2:23 PM

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aight, just checkin

teal ibex Dec 4, 2019, 2:23 PM

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plus the only reason it's so aggravating is because the boss is so nail-bitingly tough for peeps

#

a more mellowed fight would make the extra hp negligible for most i'm sure

#

i'll wait like 15m for any other points to be made and post it

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:23 PM

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nerf the boss or buff the loot

#

pick one

distant gyro Dec 4, 2019, 2:23 PM

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both

#

HDfailure

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:24 PM

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makes the fight too easy

#

and too rewarding for an easy fight

zenith hazel Dec 4, 2019, 2:24 PM

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how is that too easy?

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:24 PM

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depends on how much its nerfed

granite owl Dec 4, 2019, 2:24 PM

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idk but I think plantera is harder than Levi & siren

distant gyro Dec 4, 2019, 2:24 PM

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not saying that siren's song should be able to melt golem in 15 seconds

zenith hazel Dec 4, 2019, 2:24 PM

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then you can’t really say it’s too easy, can you?

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:25 PM

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brav im assuming enough to make the fight actually viable

zenith hazel Dec 4, 2019, 2:25 PM

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then it makes no sense for it to be too easy

distant gyro Dec 4, 2019, 2:25 PM

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well yea

teal ibex Dec 4, 2019, 2:25 PM

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w-would viable not be reasonable difficulty??

zenith hazel Dec 4, 2019, 2:25 PM

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it’s still a multi boss fight after all

distant gyro Dec 4, 2019, 2:25 PM

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which is why I said both

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:25 PM

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if combined with buffing the loot it would carry too much of a reward is what im saying

zenith hazel Dec 4, 2019, 2:25 PM

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for a reasonable fight

distant gyro Dec 4, 2019, 2:25 PM

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we're not taking those buffs and nerfs to the extremes, are we

teal ibex Dec 4, 2019, 2:25 PM

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hence why i'm not bothering with loot buffs

distant gyro Dec 4, 2019, 2:26 PM

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reminder that weapon balancing often raises base damage by like 3-5

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:26 PM

#

either buff the loot enough to make the difficulty worth it or nerf the fight to make the loot's current power actually make sense

distant gyro Dec 4, 2019, 2:26 PM

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which is negligible at best

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 2:26 PM

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~~unless it's P90~~

#

HDfailure

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:27 PM

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i would personally suggest buffing the loot since the loot is underwhelming and the bosses can be cheesed using the conclave crossfire or any hardmode dungeon weapon

#

so the drops should be more powerful than the dungeon stuff

distant gyro Dec 4, 2019, 2:27 PM

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I'll suggest doing both to a moderate

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:27 PM

#

that could work

distant gyro Dec 4, 2019, 2:27 PM

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that's a right way to make a balanced and fair boss having it worth while

teal ibex Dec 4, 2019, 2:27 PM

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cheesing a boss should nEVER be how you decide to balance it

#

cheesing is easy and you're saying the loot should be better for the people who do?

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:28 PM

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thats not what im saying

#

actually nvm

#

lmao

teal ibex Dec 4, 2019, 2:28 PM

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like yeah, it'd work nicely for the people who actually did the fight, but the people who cheese would get super good items without any of the effort imposed

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:28 PM

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well imean conclave could be nerfed but that's another rabbit hole in itself

#

buff the fight slightly to make the dungon weps a bit less OP against it but also at the same time buff the drops so theyre actually worth it

distant gyro Dec 4, 2019, 2:29 PM

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you know what would be better

#

actually pacing the gap between tactical shotgun and conclave crossfire -- so you don't use tactical shotgun for the long-lasting 1 second before getting a direct upgrade

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:30 PM

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I agree

distant gyro Dec 4, 2019, 2:30 PM

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but that's a topic for another day, we're talking about the boss here

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:30 PM

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Can I make a sugg about that lol

#

Make Conclave Crossfire post-Golem

Reason: Currently the availability of the CC right after obtaining the Tactical Shotgun pretty much invalidates the latter weapon except for crafting the CC. If it were moved further in the progression tree, it could mean the TS could get some more use.
Original idea by Altix

distant gyro Dec 4, 2019, 2:33 PM

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~~smh you spelled my name wrong~~

#

I'd give an example of a weapon that has been given this treatment before

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:34 PM

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are there any examples tbh

distant gyro Dec 4, 2019, 2:34 PM

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actually

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:34 PM

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i cant think of any right off the bat

distant gyro Dec 4, 2019, 2:34 PM

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the title of my suggestion would be a meme in itself

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 2:34 PM

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~~Impaler, I think maybe?~~

distant gyro Dec 4, 2019, 2:34 PM

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Give Conclave Crossfire the Impaler Treatment

#

ye

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 2:34 PM

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knew it

#

TaxEvasion

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:34 PM

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well frick i forgot that my school blocks the calamity wiki

#

so i cant confirm lol

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 2:34 PM

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Stake Launcher 2

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:34 PM

#

imma take your word on it tbh, thanks

distant gyro Dec 4, 2019, 2:34 PM

#

Impaler's recipe got replaced from Core of Chaos to Chaotic Bar in 104

#

Ironically enough, Conclave Crossfire also use Core of Chaos afaik

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:35 PM

#

Make Conclave Crossfire post-Golem

Reason: Currently the availability of the CC right after obtaining the Tactical Shotgun pretty much invalidates the latter weapon except for crafting the CC. If it were moved further in the progression tree, it could mean the TS could get some more use. This is similar to how the Impaler received this treatment in order to give the Stake Launcher more use.

distant gyro Dec 4, 2019, 2:35 PM

#

Hence, the Impaler Treatment

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 2:36 PM

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(and by extension, also make Conference Crutch drop exclusively post-Golem)

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:36 PM

#

whats the conference crutch

ruby cobalt Dec 4, 2019, 2:36 PM

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conference call

distant gyro Dec 4, 2019, 2:36 PM

#

RIV of Crossfire

ruby cobalt Dec 4, 2019, 2:36 PM

#

the good conclave crossfire

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:36 PM

#

ah

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 2:36 PM

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ConCrossfire's older brother that does none of the work for all of the recognition

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:37 PM

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lol

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 2:37 PM

#

OmegaFailure

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:37 PM

#

Make Conclave Crossfire post-Golem

Reason: Currently the availability of the CC right after obtaining the Tactical Shotgun pretty much invalidates the latter weapon except for crafting the CC. If it were moved further in the progression tree, it could mean the TS could get some more use. This is similar to how the Impaler received this treatment in order to give the Stake Launcher more use.
P.S. The Conference Call would also be moved to post-Golem to compensate

#

i need to stop sending this here lmao

distant gyro Dec 4, 2019, 2:37 PM

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adopted brother of apocalyptic explusor

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 2:38 PM

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no please keep doing so I enjoy having suggs posted in here first

#

and so do other sugg enthusiasts

#

that way we can help you fine-tune your sugg for maximum efficiency

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:38 PM

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any more suggs on my sug tbh

queen sail Dec 4, 2019, 2:39 PM

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Conclave Crossfire and the same wep but more bullets being the same tier

#

thonk

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 2:39 PM

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my sugg on your sugg is that your sugg's a good sugg

#

you should sugg your sugg in #sugg

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:39 PM

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this is getting to inception levels of suggs on suggs

#

bruh

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 2:39 PM

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have I confused you yet

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:39 PM

#

no

teal ibex Dec 4, 2019, 2:39 PM

#

alright time to get murdered by rover when he wakes up

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:39 PM

#

so can i post it?

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 2:40 PM

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fuck

#

also yes

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:40 PM

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gotta love it when someone blocked you so you cant star their sugg

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 2:40 PM

#

also 2 because obligatory:

#

dassss chainninggng >:CCC

#

~~except not really because this stands on its own lel~~

teal ibex Dec 4, 2019, 2:41 PM

#

ur right i'll delete it tbh

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 2:41 PM

#

C:

#

honestly though I wholeheartedly support both of these suggs

teal ibex Dec 4, 2019, 2:42 PM

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~~now time to make fishing suggestion #22~~

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 2:43 PM

#

~~time to star fishing suggestion #22 because fishing is good~~

#

txvsn

tired haven Dec 4, 2019, 2:46 PM

#

~~time to complain about fishing~~

#

gachiCOOL

queen sail Dec 4, 2019, 2:47 PM

#

Profaned Crates that drop nothing but Profaned Furniture

#

PensiveDoGCowboy

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:47 PM

#

😔

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 2:50 PM

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yes please Profaned Crates that drop Unholy Essence and stuff so Providence and her lackeys can stop plaguing my Hallowed Crates with incidental crafting materials

#

:C

queen sail Dec 4, 2019, 2:50 PM

#

Wait what

#

Okay

#

Hold on

hearty yew Dec 4, 2019, 2:50 PM

#

Boss suggestions are useless but I want you guys to know I wholeheartedly support ANY nerfs to S&L

queen sail Dec 4, 2019, 2:50 PM

#

Can we get a list on the crate page on the wiki to describe vanilla crate adjustments

hearty yew Dec 4, 2019, 2:51 PM

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They're reliably on tier with or harder than duke

#

@teal ibex @signal prairie

teal ibex Dec 4, 2019, 2:51 PM

#

tbf this is very particularly designed to be as unintrusive and simple of a change as is reasonably possible

#

but yes, i'm aware boss suggestions are like never actually a thing

distant gyro Dec 4, 2019, 2:51 PM

#

@queen sail Sure, just wait a bit

hollow saffron Dec 4, 2019, 2:52 PM

#

arent boss suggestions specific

hearty yew Dec 4, 2019, 2:52 PM

#

No

#

They're not specific items

#

So they're not illegal

distant gyro Dec 4, 2019, 2:52 PM

#

Wooden Crate:
Wulfrum Shard, 25%, 3 to 5

Iron Crate:
Wulfrum Shard, 25%, 5 to 8
Ancient Bone Dust, 25%, 5 to 8

Corrupt Crate:
Fetid Essence, 25%, 5 to 8
Blighted Gel, 25%, 5 to 8
Murky Sludge, 20%, 1 to 3

Crimson Crate:
Bloodletting instead of Fetid
same as Corrupt

Hallowed Crate:
Unholy Essence, 20%, 5 to 10, post Prov

Dungeon Crate:
Ectoplasm, 30%, 5 to 10, post plant
Phantoplasm, 20%, 5 to 10, post polter

Jungle Crate:
Murky Paste, 20%, 1 to 3
Maneater bulb 20%, 1 to 3
Trapper Bulb, 20%, 1 to 3, hardmode
Beetle Juice, 20%, 1 to 3, hardmode
Perennial Bar, 25%, 5 to 10, plant
Plague Cell Canister, 20%, 3 to 6, golem
Uelibloom bar, 25%, 5 to 10, prov

Sky Crate:
Aerialite bar, 25%, 5 to 10, post hm/perfs
Essence of sunlight, 20%, 5 to 15, hardmode
Galactic Singularity, 10%, 1 to 3, post moon lord

hearty yew Dec 4, 2019, 2:52 PM

#

They might become illegal soon though lol

distant gyro Dec 4, 2019, 2:52 PM

#

meanwhile, you can have this while I make the table CompleteFailure

queen sail Dec 4, 2019, 2:52 PM

#

PensiveDoGCowboy

hearty yew Dec 4, 2019, 2:52 PM

#

I don't have the authority to nerf or rebalance any boss. Nobody does. And none of them will be changed, so

queen sail Dec 4, 2019, 2:52 PM

#

Wait what

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 2:53 PM

#

lel

queen sail Dec 4, 2019, 2:53 PM

#

Why do sky crates have galactica singularities

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 2:53 PM

#

amazing

hearty yew Dec 4, 2019, 2:53 PM

#

The best you can do is suggest anyway and believe in the power of democracy

queen sail Dec 4, 2019, 2:53 PM

#

ech

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 2:53 PM

#

I will believe very hard

hearty yew Dec 4, 2019, 4:24 PM

#

@proven tide where's the document

queen sail Dec 4, 2019, 4:29 PM

#

What doc

ruby hound Dec 4, 2019, 4:32 PM

#

4 more stars and my idea will be suggested to devs wow

hallow kraken Dec 4, 2019, 5:07 PM

#

Implementing songs like Threats is frequently suggested according to Suggestion Don’ts.

#

Additionally, I don’t think AEW was implemented to be a fight, but rather as a way to prevent RoD use in the abyss

queen sail Dec 4, 2019, 5:09 PM

#

AEW is just a glorified DG

#

You’re not meant to fight it but if you beat it hey congrats

mighty hemlock Dec 4, 2019, 5:19 PM

#

oh well didnt find a single suggestion with it before but i see now, ig i will just remove it

ruby hound Dec 4, 2019, 5:20 PM

#

wow, one more star

opal barn Dec 4, 2019, 5:21 PM

#

You don't have to annouce it every 3 stars

ruby hound Dec 4, 2019, 5:21 PM

#

as you wish

mighty hemlock Dec 4, 2019, 5:21 PM

#

there you go lol

ruby hound Dec 4, 2019, 5:21 PM

#

thx

ashen warren Dec 4, 2019, 6:48 PM

#

Huh, I find siren and Levi easy on d mode. Aureate boosters w/ reaver Armour and frog leg.

#

Easy mobility

#

Ballistic poison bomb works great for taking down Levi, and you can use conclave for siren

#

Megalodon works too

#

Still needs a nerf though. Specific way to play that not everyone will enjoy.

smoky wagon Dec 4, 2019, 7:01 PM

#

Compared to aureus and pbg, siren and levi are significantly harder

#

Are their weapon drops even good? I know they were buffed at one point

queen sail Dec 4, 2019, 7:19 PM

#

Leviatitan = Meh
Atlantis = Crowd control but, like, Nebulash?
Siren’s Song = See above, also confusion lmao
Greentide = bruh
Brackish Flask = Pretty decent
The Community = Okay this one is pretty good
Pearl of Enthrallment = HotE crafting filler lmao
Leviathan Ambergris = Amalgam filler 🤷‍♀️

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 7:32 PM

#

Atlantis was good until Deuces Wild got moved

#

and Nebulash was shifted to Aureus

#

Greentide is a meme as far as I know

#

I've never unironically used Siren's Song for any reason and have no clue what it's meant to do CompleteFailure

queen sail Dec 4, 2019, 7:34 PM

#

Magical Harp but bETTER™

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 7:34 PM

#

so Magical Harp 2

queen sail Dec 4, 2019, 7:34 PM

#

Pretty much

#

With bigger damage and note size

#

ech

#

And confusion fsr

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 7:35 PM

#

see I mainly know it as a Face Melter mat

#

HDfailure

queen sail Dec 4, 2019, 7:35 PM

#

Is Face Melter good

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 7:35 PM

#

kinda?

queen sail Dec 4, 2019, 7:35 PM

#

Only thing I heard about it is from Ozz on the wep tier list stream

#

Smth smth “This melts Yharon”

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 7:35 PM

#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

#

The Community is good

#

except such is never the case at the point you are intended to get it, compared to other easier-to-obtain items

#

Pearl of Enthrallment is more waifu bait and HotE filler, seriously who uses any of these goddamn HotE ingredients besides Aero Stone and Chaos Stone

#

Leviathan Ambergiggity is nice for the tier you get it, and I like that. the mega-accessory it's used for, however, is a fantastic meme

void kelp Dec 4, 2019, 7:59 PM

#

ok this is gonna be a nerdy suggestion but.. Rename the cnidrion to something else

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 7:59 PM

#

hey so I've always wondered

#

why the fuck is it called a Cnidrion

#

what is that even supposed to mean

opal barn Dec 4, 2019, 7:59 PM

#

Because

gusty geode Dec 4, 2019, 7:59 PM

#

What extra effects would you add to the paintbrush
Chance to not consume paint?

void kelp Dec 4, 2019, 8:00 PM

#

idfk because cnidaria refer to stuff like jellies, starfish,

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 8:00 PM

#

~~greater area of effect, for one~~

void kelp Dec 4, 2019, 8:00 PM

#

hydrozoa

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 8:00 PM

#

okay but Cnidrions are fucking seahorses

void kelp Dec 4, 2019, 8:00 PM

#

which is why I’m like ech because cnidrions are seahorses

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 8:00 PM

#

I'm pretty sure a seahorse is not made of jelly

void kelp Dec 4, 2019, 8:00 PM

#

I’m literally gonna have to look into seahorse taxonomy hold on

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 8:00 PM

#

why

queen sail Dec 4, 2019, 8:00 PM

#

Ask Fab :blobshrug:

#

@sand umbra wdym

#

You think that’s water they’re shooting?

#

ech

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 8:01 PM

#

...do not--

#

fuck you

#

I'm never going to get the image of Cnidrions' water spit just being gel out of my head now

#

thanks for that

queen sail Dec 4, 2019, 8:02 PM

#

HahaYes

void kelp Dec 4, 2019, 8:05 PM

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isn’t it the same particle effect as the slime gun HDfailure

rugged mist Dec 4, 2019, 8:07 PM

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Fab planned this all along

tired haven Dec 4, 2019, 8:11 PM

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Gelatin horse

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Crusty one, apparently

void kelp Dec 4, 2019, 8:12 PM

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@brittle merlin this suggestion is for u

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 8:17 PM

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can't really do much for summons

opaque sierra Dec 4, 2019, 8:18 PM

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The cnidrion doesn't need a rename

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 8:18 PM

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ranger modifiers are hmmmst

opaque sierra Dec 4, 2019, 8:18 PM

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It's a fucking game

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 8:18 PM

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rogue...can be balanced if done right, though the same applies to ranger

tired haven Dec 4, 2019, 8:18 PM

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~~Minion knockback is the reason I think of doing "5 most useless stats in Terraria" vid~~
Tbh custom reforges could be interesting, but most of them are just clogging the space of where menacing and lucky are

wheat cave Dec 4, 2019, 8:18 PM

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I feel like everyone just uses Menacing/Lucky and some people use Warding, I don't think that more reforges would be much better

opaque sierra Dec 4, 2019, 8:19 PM

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I either use menacing or warding

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 8:19 PM

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~~this just in: Menacing now reduces use speed and/or crit chance~~

opaque sierra Dec 4, 2019, 8:19 PM

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I couldn't care less about lucky

void kelp Dec 4, 2019, 8:19 PM

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it’s not necessary but it’s reasonable

tired haven Dec 4, 2019, 8:19 PM

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Too bad because lucky is mathematically better in lots of cases

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failure

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 8:19 PM

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here's my thing of it

Menacing will always be king

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for the simple reason that people love big numbers

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without thinking any further on it

opaque sierra Dec 4, 2019, 8:20 PM

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Warding is useful for summoners and mage due to low defense

wheat cave Dec 4, 2019, 8:20 PM

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I somehow ended up with 100%+ crit chance at melee run with max 1 accessory at lucky

opaque sierra Dec 4, 2019, 8:20 PM

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Melee however

tired haven Dec 4, 2019, 8:20 PM

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if you think about it, lucky was nerfed; menacing wasn't
who was the actual king?

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 8:20 PM

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we, as human beings, are really satisfied by seeing big fat numbers blowing big fat baddies right up into big fat loot piles

wheat cave Dec 4, 2019, 8:20 PM

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With potions and Glass Cannon setup

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 8:20 PM

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Lucky is Lucky

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CompleteFailure

runic heath Dec 4, 2019, 8:20 PM

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I don’t think menacing needs to be nerfed at all

opaque sierra Dec 4, 2019, 8:20 PM

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Last prism is broken against poompkin moon

runic heath Dec 4, 2019, 8:21 PM

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But yeah minion knockback is so bad

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It would be really nice if it was minion speed or something

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 8:21 PM

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the thing of it is that

opaque sierra Dec 4, 2019, 8:21 PM

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Minion knock back doesn't mean shit

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 8:21 PM

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movement modifiers are a joke

runic heath Dec 4, 2019, 8:21 PM

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Especially the stardust dragon/mechworm

opaque sierra Dec 4, 2019, 8:21 PM

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Minion damage means shit

frail mantle Dec 4, 2019, 8:21 PM

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idea: make Quick actually increase max speed instead of increasing max acceleration, because it's currently completely useless

opaque sierra Dec 4, 2019, 8:21 PM

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Movement modifiers can suck mah left one

runic heath Dec 4, 2019, 8:21 PM

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But yeah minion movement speed would be situational, but for mechworm I think it would be kind of good

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 8:22 PM

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and the melee speed modifiers don't really change much, only yo-yo/boomerang range and speed, firing speed from shit like Death Sickle, and use animation time

runic heath Dec 4, 2019, 8:22 PM

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Also it would be nice if any increase speed things would say increase max move speed instead

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 8:22 PM

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(and the first one breaks if you build it too high either way because yo-yo AI is a meme)

runic heath Dec 4, 2019, 8:22 PM

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Yeah, but some minions are too slow to actually hit things

opaque sierra Dec 4, 2019, 8:22 PM

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Death sickle was a good cheese weapon until some genius invented the solar eruption

wheat cave Dec 4, 2019, 8:22 PM

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Yeah, I don't think faster Mechworm would be better, he would just fly around not hitting anything half the time

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 8:22 PM

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Also it would be nice if any increase speed things would say increase max move speed instead

wheat cave Dec 4, 2019, 8:22 PM

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He either shreds everything or misses entirely

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 8:23 PM

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well no because then that's even more misleading

tired haven Dec 4, 2019, 8:23 PM

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??

runic heath Dec 4, 2019, 8:23 PM

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How

wheat cave Dec 4, 2019, 8:23 PM

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?

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 8:23 PM

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the whole issue with movement speed shit is that movement speed buffs affect nothing when you have boots in the first place

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they only affect acceleration

runic heath Dec 4, 2019, 8:23 PM

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That’s not true

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 8:23 PM

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echdemon

runic heath Dec 4, 2019, 8:23 PM

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You can obtain 309 speed with boots

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Actually higher if my setup was in space

tired haven Dec 4, 2019, 8:23 PM

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Movement speed stat affecting max speed is like, what everyone thinks before they are told the truth

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(or actually test once)

wheat cave Dec 4, 2019, 8:24 PM

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^

runic heath Dec 4, 2019, 8:24 PM

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Boots don’t actually hardcap speed as far as I can tell

tired haven Dec 4, 2019, 8:24 PM

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Mmm, they kind of do

runic heath Dec 4, 2019, 8:24 PM

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Then why can I go faster than the “speed cap”

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Unless celestial tracers are different

tired haven Dec 4, 2019, 8:24 PM

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You can go faster with few edge cases like dashing but movement speed stops affecting max speed

runic heath Dec 4, 2019, 8:25 PM

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I got 309 move speed without dashing

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 8:25 PM

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roofon

runic heath Dec 4, 2019, 8:25 PM

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Unless you can’t run on concrete

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 8:25 PM

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when, pray tell, was the last time you actually tested this in-game

runic heath Dec 4, 2019, 8:25 PM

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Like 2 days ago

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 8:25 PM

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and no, Asphalt doesn't count

tired haven Dec 4, 2019, 8:25 PM

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Do you mean asphalt or?

runic heath Dec 4, 2019, 8:25 PM

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Asphalt my bad

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 8:25 PM

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Asphalt is a completely different playing field

runic heath Dec 4, 2019, 8:25 PM

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Does that affect speed cap?

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 8:25 PM

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.

runic heath Dec 4, 2019, 8:25 PM

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I more meant

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Does it remove hard cap

opaque sierra Dec 4, 2019, 8:26 PM

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Frozone slime blocks and the grapple door trick

tired haven Dec 4, 2019, 8:26 PM

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It uncaps speed and sets it higher, yes

opaque sierra Dec 4, 2019, 8:26 PM

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Makes ya go fast

wheat cave Dec 4, 2019, 8:26 PM

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Is there any benefit of the faster movement speed? For Non Boss fights there is Burden Breaker, and you cant and aren't supposed to outrun most of the bosses

runic heath Dec 4, 2019, 8:26 PM

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Ah that’d do it then

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 8:26 PM

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but without Asphalt, speed is effectively capped at whatever your boots can manage

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hence why movement speed buffs are misleading as hell

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they don't actually boost your movement speed; only accel

runic heath Dec 4, 2019, 8:26 PM

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Still doesn’t change that some items that say boost movement speed don’t actually boost movement speed

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 8:26 PM

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YEP

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BLAME RED

tired haven Dec 4, 2019, 8:26 PM

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~~imagine using asphalt anyway~~ failure

opaque sierra Dec 4, 2019, 8:27 PM

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Which is bullshit

tired haven Dec 4, 2019, 8:27 PM

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And well yes

runic heath Dec 4, 2019, 8:27 PM

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Aerostone does too

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 8:27 PM

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AND HIS SHITTY MOVEMENT ACC PROGRAMMING

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echdemon

runic heath Dec 4, 2019, 8:27 PM

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There are a couple calamity items that do too

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 8:27 PM

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yes, there are

runic heath Dec 4, 2019, 8:27 PM

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Which is what my point is since they just say movespeed and not accel

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 8:27 PM

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but it's a problem that is rooted in vanilla being retarded

tired haven Dec 4, 2019, 8:27 PM

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They have to modify speed after the vanilla hardcap goes into play

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Also renaming all the vanilla move speed would be arse task

runic heath Dec 4, 2019, 8:28 PM

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A number of items do increase max speed though

tired haven Dec 4, 2019, 8:28 PM

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(totally not because it was thrown around as flavor stat)
Like?

runic heath Dec 4, 2019, 8:28 PM

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Draedon’s heart, any lore item that increases it

tired haven Dec 4, 2019, 8:28 PM

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Out of vanilla

opaque sierra Dec 4, 2019, 8:28 PM

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How come I spend fuckin ages in underground hallow with water candle farming chaos elementals and getting over 9 chaos elemental banners and still no rod od discord

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 8:28 PM

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shit luck

opaque sierra Dec 4, 2019, 8:28 PM

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thonk

runic heath Dec 4, 2019, 8:28 PM

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Yikes

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Turn on defiled rune

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 8:29 PM

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it's as simple as that

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CompleteFailure

tired haven Dec 4, 2019, 8:29 PM

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450 elementals when the chance is 1/500, heh

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(without defiled that is)

runic heath Dec 4, 2019, 8:29 PM

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~~someone I know killed 400 tactical skeletons before the rare weapon drop~~

opaque sierra Dec 4, 2019, 8:29 PM

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Like my exact kill count on them is 578

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 8:30 PM

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...why did I think that the chance was 2% for some fuckin' reason

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Ech

tired haven Dec 4, 2019, 8:30 PM

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No idea

runic heath Dec 4, 2019, 8:30 PM

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You could also just fish for like

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A little bit

sand umbra Dec 4, 2019, 8:30 PM

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and fuRTHERMORE
WHY DOES RUNE AFFECT IT

runic heath Dec 4, 2019, 8:30 PM

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Why wouldn’t it?

opaque sierra Dec 4, 2019, 8:30 PM

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I was fishing too for the scaly truffle

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I did both

tired haven Dec 4, 2019, 8:30 PM

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Btw you have had a whopping 31% chance to not get a single RoD with that much kills

opaque sierra Dec 4, 2019, 8:31 PM

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In underground frozen hallow

tired haven Dec 4, 2019, 8:31 PM

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Theory of probabilities (or however it is named in engrish) is fun stuff I swear

opaque sierra Dec 4, 2019, 8:31 PM

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And then I go and kill 3 giant tortoises and get 3 turtle shells

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Like RNG Jesus isn't on my side when it comes to rod

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Or any rare drop I actually want

tired haven Dec 4, 2019, 8:32 PM

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~~that's why you sell your soul and fish up a few chaos fishes~~

runic heath Dec 4, 2019, 8:33 PM

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Sacrifice angler to the trasher gods

opaque sierra Dec 4, 2019, 8:33 PM

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What does a few teleportation potions do to help

runic heath Dec 4, 2019, 8:33 PM

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You can craft rod with chaos fish

tired haven Dec 4, 2019, 8:33 PM

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Did you not know about crafting recipe for RoD?

runic heath Dec 4, 2019, 8:33 PM

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You only need 5

opaque sierra Dec 4, 2019, 8:33 PM

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Oh really?

tired haven Dec 4, 2019, 8:33 PM

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Calamity adds that

runic heath Dec 4, 2019, 8:33 PM

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Yes

opaque sierra Dec 4, 2019, 8:33 PM

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Well I'm fucked then