strikethrough now is it working
#suggestions-discussion
opaque sierra
distant gyro
__
tired haven
Let's take the formatting to general and keep suggestions here
opaque sierra
Haha yes I have done it
distant gyro
what suggestions are we on again
loud steeple
underline something involving crabs
tired haven
Shroomite ore and sound for astral ore blocked
distant gyro
I just caught up and it happens that we seem tobe jumping between point to point
then leaving a topic halfway through
(I thought it is established that astral ore sfx is a good solution)
loud steeple
Strikethrough I agree
hollow shell
Current stealth value probably wouldn't be helpful to keep in the meter
It's not really a "stat"
Total stealth is fine tho
tired haven
given there are like 5 strings dedicated to abyss breath loss I tend to disagree on not helpful
opaque sierra
tired haven
It could combine both btw: current/maximum stealth (ex. 120/160)
cobalt rose
is there a visual indicator of stealth?
opaque sierra
Does stealth matter in terraria?
tired haven
You become more and more transparent if far from npcs
distant gyro
There's a faint visual indicator
opaque sierra
Generally I wouldn't be concerned about stealth if I was fighting scal
tired haven
Stealth stat does indeed matter
aggro reduction does not
distant gyro
And a clear auditorial indicator
hollow shell
Stealth =/= Aggro
cobalt rose
he's just saying that knowing stealth matters more than knowing aggro reduction
hollow shell
Aggro should probably be in the stat meter, actually
opaque sierra
haven't even played calamity because I don't have terraria on pc
opaque sierra
But I will soon
And I want to know as much as I can about it for when I do play it
I eat ml for breakfast on console
On expert, no buffs, no arena
So I'd like to think in pretty decent at the game
hollow shell
Good luck with post-Moon Lord bosses, in Revengeance Mode 
loud steeple
Ml is pretty easy on expert vanilla
opaque sierra
What if I told you ml is WAY harder on mobile on normal than he is on expert console
tired haven
Then you're bragging
Not much else can be taken out of these words 
opaque sierra
I've played mobile terraria since release I love the game
runic heath
Bruh we get it you’re good at the game but can you take it to #general-talk
opaque sierra
Yeah we should do that
normal otter
hollow shell
It's easier to figure out your full stealth considering only a few items can increase it
but I still feel like it's worth showin the total
You could replace the current stealth with aggro, though
Advocate for both
gusty geode
Wasn't using "QoL" without explanation as a reason a don't
frail mantle
not sure if it's a Don't, but i'm pretty sure it's frowned upon
hollow shell
@quartz hare Provide more reasoning than that.
I'll make "QoL" alone as a reason into a Don't later
quartz hare
cant
void kelp
why is knowing how much stealth you have important?
limpid mason
I mean
you get a noise when it's full
and most rogue stealth bonuses happen when the stealth bar is full
quartz hare
but if i havent headphones or smth
queen sail
I heard that adding menu mod config support was a bit aids
Coming from terry
Might just be because he had to add so much though
sand umbra
yeah you have to consider
the Fargo's config is literally what was previously the entire soul toggles menu
swift bison
it took me about 15 minutes to code my first ever config
and that was me learning how to do it
ashen warren
modconfig is easy
doing it with subfolders and icons the way we did it is cancer though
swift bison
neither of which calamity would need to do
carmine stream
queen sail
Seraph you know Fargo’s gonna use that to replace terminus duke with duke ex
ashen warren
boss rush now featuring mutant boss mutant boss
ashen warren
777 million hp mutant boss mutant boss
swift bison
i considered adding something like that to my suggestion actually
subtle oracle
Is this suggestion even possible? It would take time to code if so
ashen warren
i'll start working on abom boss when phup finishes her pt 
queen sail
Well i’d imagine calamity would agree
The calam devs, i mean
Thorium bosses in terminus
tired haven
Configs are planned, just not top priority
About boss rush thing, well... it would certainly lack crucial numbers for balancing
(as if it wasn't messy enough before) 
queen sail
Allow other content mods with bosses to add their own bosses into terminus and have them be able to adjust their stats
tired haven
Yeah, and then we will have 2.1b hp calamity GOD from apoth as 63rd boss
@Tеrry N. Muse#7777 ^
ashen warren
boss rush but after doggo you fight all of the apothfren shitbosses
including straight up unwinnable verboten one
sounds god
swift bison
which is why i added this:
hollow shell
It'd be cool...
but yeah it prolly ain't happening
potent veldt
It's definitely another one of those "Cool, but not right now" suggestions
dim kestrel
It's cool but then it wouldn't be called calamity boss rush, it'd just be called modded boss rush
sand umbra
I'd ask for a relatively simple way for other mods to override Rev+ AI as well but like
it'd probably fall under the same category so why bother
gusty geode
Didn't Fab say back when the boss rush came out that he'd be willing to add bosses from other mods to it as long as he's provided with their IDs
void kelp
long long ago
sand umbra
Testing, testing...
On today's episode of "oh god more wackiness from that one meme yo-yo man":
Make Calamity item "flavor text" and other tooltips more consistent with how they are in vanilla and in other mods.
❔
Vanilla tooltips are organized in a mostly consistent manner --- descriptions of an item's function and extra stats are stated after basic stats, and flavor/lore text is always placed on the last line(s) with single quotes embracing them. To give an example, the Vortex Beater first describes its high chance to not consume ammo, and then has its pewpew-boomboom flavor text in single quotes after the statistic line.
Calamity items have always been very inconsistent with how their tooltips are organized by comparison --- ranging from Drataliornus following the normal format, to items like Galactus Blade having no quotes and having the lore as the first line, to things like Monkey Darts which are actually organized right but don't have quotes around the flavor text leaving you wondering if there's a secret extra effect tied to them. As such, it can be a bother to a lot of people and overall be somewhat confusing to those that believe there may be hidden features.
A change like this would make these various tooltips much easier to figure out and read alongside those of vanilla (and other mods, should they also follow this convention) and overall just make them look nicer.
(It'd also give a lot more freedom with how varied flavor text can get, for whatever that's worth.)
@tacit elbow this is relevant to your interests, I feel
also just gauging the opinions of the general public before I take a shot at this in #suggestions-voting
hollow shell
You may want to describe that the "normal format" is having quotes on flavor text and no quotes on descriptive text, with flavor text after descriptive text
cuz that isn't clear until the Galactus example
sand umbra
oh yeah
zealous ridge
yeah, be more clear on what "normal" is
i had to read several times to extrapolate that
sand umbra
added a bit on how vanilla tooltips are organized
hollow shell
Still doesn't mention quotes
zealous ridge
might want to mention how a certain vanilla item does it, say the solar eruption or a weapon with flavor text and a description of what it does (dunno if solar eruption covers that)
sand umbra
elaborated more and gave what is likely a well-known example for ranger mains everywhere
hollow shell
There ya go
sand umbra
yee
sand umbra
it's gamer time
zealous ridge
sand umbra
hearty yew
@swift bison I ain't gonna kill you for that suggestion. Boss rush needs to be modularized anyway
swift bison
ik, i was joking because i can imagine that coding this would be aids
hearty yew
The aids part is making boss rush modular, which I already recognize I need to do.
Once it's modular, adding your own bosses into BR is easy
I'll add a Call for "is it boss rush" so that when people add their bosses in, they can adjust the AI themselves
vocal grotto
Doesn't it rely on a switch atm? Maybe a list of sorts that it iterates through as each boss dies?
void kelp
@sand umbra the suggestion could probs make things easier for devs if you and none got a document full of all the item tooltips that can be fixed
hearty yew
Also, your suggestion about JSON config / correctly using TML 0.11 config features is also on my todo list, I just haven't gotten around to it yet @swift bison
vocal grotto
Unless Fab has any problems with it I wouldn't mind taking on BR insertions for other mods
hearty yew
we'd have to discuss the heavy boss rush refactoring with him first
vocal grotto
Yeah.
hearty yew
because that will require changing tons of currently hard coded systems all over the place
Definitely not something we can do immediately
Changing mod config would be a lot easier
I'm really proud of suggestions channel lately
All these last 5 suggestions have me vibrating with excitement because they're all substantial functional improvements which I independently have deemed necessary or appropriate and approve of because they're on my to-do list
hollow shell
"Prove its resistance by throwing it upwards and catching it with your face"
Indeed
Can't help but feel like that'd harm players who weren't intending to do that
runic heath
No other item in the game besides I think explosives does self damage
hollow shell
That's just draining health on use
runic heath
I more meant items that you can use and hit yourself, idiot with
runic heath
those doing damage is just a cost for using the item
sand umbra
still causes self-damage, which was your original query
runic heath
Fair enough
hollow shell
@steep island Could have a bit more substance in the reason,
such as mentioning how the tooltip describes doing exactly that
steep island
👌
runic heath
i know in general suggesting mods as a solution is frowned upon, but boss checklist is just QOL and tells you what conditions bosses need to spawn
zealous ridge
i thought the wiki already specified spawning conditions?
hollow shell
@fierce vector Spawn conditions are usually listed on both the page for the item that summons them as well as the first section on their pages
Enrage/despawn conditions are listed in the header paragraph of Behavior
If a page is lacking any day-night specifications then it doesn't matter, the boss can be spawned any time and doesn't enrage/despawn based on time.
fierce vector
The summoners usually have them, but it is kind of tricky to find the exact requirements quickly. A category would work as a good way to just see all of the bosses quickly that are specified.
fierce vector
Might just be me, Idk.
left crest
hollow shell
Deus as well
sand umbra
and then it also has two that are the exact opposite of nocturnal
hollow shell
Provvy and Guardians need the day
sand umbra
hollow shell
Yeah it wouldn't be hard to do
Just gotta decide if it's worth categorization, what the categories would be called, maybe it'll affect vanilla wiki as well..
I'll bring it up with the wiki boys
fierce vector
Nocturnal Bosses, Diurnal Bosses, Biome Specific Bosses
And aight
I think the vanilla wiki already has them to an extent
Could be wrong
hollow shell
We do already have categories for that biomes enemies belong to
as well as an "Environment" section in their infoboxes
Probably wouldn't be helpful having them all grouped into another category for generically "Biome Specific", if that's what you're suggesting
fierce vector
Suppose so, the night/day is my main focus
hollow shell
Yeah
void kelp
@flat ermine i’d suggest splitting that idea into two because not everyone would agree with both or only agree with one
hollow shell
Oh yes, very true
void kelp
bc the second half just made me not want to support the idea since it goes in different directions
hollow shell
1 - Astral Monolith platforms, decorations, and other "wood" consistency
2 - Astral Monolith exclusive content, such as armor
sand umbra
more early Astral content in general would be nice
queen sail
Astral Monolith stuff please
Torture dances in making sprites for an entire wood set, including furniture
hollow shell
@flat ermine Just making sure you see ^^^
You can should split up your suggestion into two suggestions like I broke it up there
flat ermine
thx
hollow shell
np
please don't repaste those verbatim I swear to god
that's happened more than once and it's horribly awkward every time trying to tell them to write it in their own words
... not changing it at all is even worse
zealous ridge
gusty geode
I'm not a mod developer
But imo
If you've made a wood
You've kinda already signed yourself up for everything you make out of wood
Also every wood has armor
hollow shell
@flat ermine I think we had a miscommunication
We were saying that you should break up your suggestion into two suggestions,
like, edit the existing one to focus on only one topic, and then post a separate one focusing on the topic you cut out.
One would describe platforms and decoration and etc, wood consistency
and the other would describe Monolith-exclusive content like your armor idea
(well
armor is technically a wood consistency but from your wording it seems like you were thinkin of something more unique)
gusty geode
Why does it gotta be Rogue specifically anyway
None of the classes have unique armor sets at that stage
sand umbra
Frost and Forbidden...sorta?
though that's kinda grey as each covers two classes
but then again also Spider exists
zealous ridge
But that’s made up for in the ore armors, spider, forbidden and frost...
Rogue has no such set
sand umbra
tbf rogue has very little in the way of armor as a whole so like
zealous ridge
Although there is promise that rogue will get new class specific armors, with Umbraphile 
gusty geode
Right, forgot about Spider
sand umbra
all it has rn (THAT IS OBTAINABLE) is the various one-size-fits-all armors and Xeroc armor
though Umbraphile on the eclipse's horizon does bring hope that rogue will gain new unique sets :o
...and that maybe more sets, newcomers or otherwise, will become class-specific
but that's probably wishful thinking
tired haven
Obsidian and Gladiator sets hiss at you rn
zealous ridge
gusty geode
Ok, fair
But you think before we get to giving Rogue unique sets in the main game
Can we address the fact that all classes' armor options past Prov are exactly the same
zealous ridge
yeah, its a problem i hope is remedied in the future
also omega blue is true memelee 
sand umbra
But you think before we get to giving Rogue unique sets in the main game
Can we address the fact that all classes' armor options past Prov are exactly the same
finally
zealous ridge
but fair point in any case
sand umbra
someone who sees, as I do
void kelp
I honestly would’ve loved more diversification kinda like w how the ML armors were
gusty geode
Wiki called it all-class
sand umbra
I've always been annoyed by the fact that almost all of the Calamity armor sets are one-size-fits-all
gusty geode
Honestly only one I can kinda understand is Auric Tesla
hollow shell
I have indeed had ideas to remove certain class helmets from our all-class armors and introduce new armor sets to fit those classes
sand umbra
I have so many things like that in the EE plans it's not even funny
gusty geode
I remember a while back the 4 sets that made up Auric Tesla were each for different classes
gusty geode
Were they?
Huh
hollow shell
Their effects may have favored one of em a bit more, but they were not exclusive or focused
void kelp
it’d be neat since right now some armors really do feel like the other helms are extraneous
like braelor’s armor comes to mind
gusty geode
I thought I remembered Godslayer being melee
And even if that wasn't the case I think that's what it'd fit best as thematically
void kelp
godslayer should be melee since DoG’s lore bonus is also melee
sand umbra
so I'm just gonna
Wulfrum becomes...classless...?
Victide becomes uhhhhhhhhhhhh
Aerospec stays one-size-fits-all, intended as a unique alternative option wherever Aerialite can be obtained
Statigel becomes rogue
Daedalus becomes ranger
Reaver becomes either all-class or stays a one-size-fits-all option for more diversity
Ataxia eludes me
Astral is fine
Xeroc is fine
Tarragon becomes melee
Bloodflare becomes summoner
God Slayer 
Silva becomes mage
Auric Tesla gains different variants for different classes that build off of different armor sets and are actually unique amongst each other
my own SuperHot take on Clam armors
oh yeah and Mollusk, which I completely forgot existed, is fine as a general-purpose armor
radiant meadow
@muted dune that is an oversight. I can fix it in a few minutes.
hollow shell
I'd list my ideas as well but that could produce spam
gusty geode
How specific do specific items have to be
Have a few ideas for armor sets that, if suggested, would only include their basic concept and where/how they'd be obtained
hollow shell
But just now right this second I got the idea:
If God Slayer becomes melee,
Endothermic Energy and Nightmare Fuel could make armors for other classes
and, iunno what other two materials could be the remaining two classes
radiant meadow
I can change it with a simple no iirc
sand umbra
see I wanna go with that but also
byeah
Frost is melee-ranger
I was thinking Endothermic Energy goes to mage, as a matter of fact
tired haven
maybe the upgrade just stays melee-ranged?
sand umbra
although I have yet to solidify anything for 
gusty geode
Like
Maybe an "Imprisoned Lifebringer" set
Made from Planty Mush, Voidstone, and maybe some new post-Polterghast Abyss material
In reference to how Silva's trapped at the bottom of the Abyss
hollow shell
Well that wouldn't be post-DoG
gusty geode
Post-ML as a whole kinda has a problem
sand umbra
well yes
post-ML has. a lot of issues, a lot of which I've already covered previously in my various ramblings
sand umbra
the linearity of armor progression is something I think I've spoken on before, but it bears repeating
hollow shell
I don't think reduction of the all-class-helmets problem is coming.
zealous ridge
One idea i had before specific item suggs were ban:
Post-plant/golem armors (beetle, shroomite, tiki/spooky, spectre) would recieve upgrades that involved the sentinel materials (beetle + armored shell, shroomite + dark plasma, spectre + twisting nether, tiki + reaper teeth?).
I love the idea a lot, but since specific item suggestions are iffy i hold back on suggesting it lol
they could be augmented to include NF, EE, and or cosmilite to also cater towards class specialization post-dog for the big bad yharon fight...
dont know if it's the most original thing ever
gusty geode
I like
hollow shell
Pretty sick
muted dune
@radiant meadow thanks
zealous ridge
spectre upgrade with dark plasma would be dope too actually
sand umbra
I never realized I could do this but now the idea's there and I am all for it
zealous ridge
nether and plasma could be switched around
sand umbra
I figured Nether would be for a rogue set
zealous ridge
true
hollow shell
What's the fifth material
zealous ridge
im stuck on rogue lol, idea was made before rogue was a thing
radiant meadow
also fixing ancient iron helmet
hollow shell
Maybe Ruinous Soul, for Spectre
even though that's already used to make 2 armor sets already
gusty geode
Uh
5th material could be Divine Geodes
Afaik there's no real Profaned armor
hollow shell
There indeed isnt
hollow shell
Coming in the far future:
armor update
sand umbra
and yet they will most likely never happen because these one-size-fits-all sets exist and make any other option completely obsolete
gusty geode
How about just a general post-ML content update
Since there's also a laughable number of enemies at that tier
hollow shell
coming
gusty geode
Cool
hollow shell
coming twice iirc
zealous ridge
perhaps...
Armored shell -> Cosmic Phalanx armor (melee)
Dark Plasma -> Dark Plasmancer armor (mage)
Twisting Nether -> Voiddappeler Armor (rogue)
Effulgent Feather -> Shellshock Armor (ranger)
Reaper Teeth -> Depth Dancer's armor (summoner)
Either make them all cosmilite tier to fix up the potential gaps that certain classes get certain armors or let them be obtainable at different tiers, possibly...
sorry if this is redundant because suggestions like this wont get in but i really like doing this lmao
hollow shell
m
sand umbra
m
hollow shell
it's fun to
imagine.
sand umbra
to think of what could be
zealous ridge
zealous ridge
sand umbra
trust me it'll all work out in the end
also I have plans for more post-ML armors anyway so ye
zealous ridge
(also yharon change suggestion has 90 now so that's epci )
in all seriousness though, a yharon rework is something i would not be opposed to even if it would take a while, so im glad this could potentially be considered
dim kestrel
Who suggeted rod of discord should be easier to get post ML? 
zealous ridge
dim kestrel
I find it pretty redundant considering how easy it is to just spam desert scourge to craft the ultimate fishing thing, added to the accessory that drops from siren and leviathan which increases the rate at which potion fish show up
Took me 10 minutes of fishing to get 5 
Not to mention... defiled rune?
Zerg pots??
= profit
radiant meadow
potion fish aren't boosted by either of those accessories
zealous ridge
so are you for or against it?
dim kestrel
Against
radiant meadow
potion fish chances are boosted by alluring bait
dim kestrel
Well that's even ealier access
radiant meadow
having supreme station+enchanted pearl+crate potion boosts the chance for rare fish items like toxikarp
also, enchanted pearl is no longer a levi drop
it's crafted post eow/boc
radiant meadow
supreme fishing station is locked behind hardmode now
dim kestrel
Potion fish
Well yea but we still got access to all it's components pre hm
So one can have those effects
zealous ridge
in any case, if you're really looking for chaos fish post-ml all you need is early bloom rod which sends out enough bobs to make getting them easy (devourer of cods if youve waited to post-dog)
dim kestrel
Chaos fish is used for random tp potions so they're affected by the chance of getting potion fish
It's just kinda hard to not have rod early unless 20 minutes is too much of a bother
simple hamlet
The change to Supreme fishing to HM is a fantastic change
I thought having it so early was too OP
austere lion
zenith hazel
why?
lucid marsh
Hey quick question for a suggestion idea I have: has the murasama generation changed? Is it still somewhere randomly in the underworld?
My basic idea was to put a labyrinth under the brimstone crag made of a block that can’t be broken until post yharon and have the murasama in a small eye shaped cavern in the center. The labyrinth could be filled with lava and traps to make it not easy
I’ll be back later to see what you all think about this and then post it
ruby cobalt
it's still somewhere randomly in the underworld (always bottom right lmao)
twilit swan
I agree with agqerrrr in the fact that there should be more sentries
distant gyro
@subtle oracle I don't know why you didn't see the suggestion above (it's literally 3 above your's )
limpid mason
void kelp
should a suggestion that has two components have its ❕ removed?
bitter topaz
hmm?
you mean if a suggestion needs to use two messages due to barely breaching the character limit?
the bot handles reactions itself in that case, so no
void kelp
oh no, I meant
a message that has two separate ideas in it
eg. the slimety suggestion has no (!) even though it’s two suggestions in one message
bright cape
Should l get the heart of the elements right after moonlord or should I wait a bit as I've done it in the past but I'm not sure, I'm in expert by the way
distant gyro
^
cobalt rose
@obtuse kestrel
what does that suggestion mean
distant gyro
I think that was an accidental post or sth
obtuse kestrel
sooorrrry wrong text chat acccident
radiant pawn
mining isnt capped...?
void kelp
the cap to mining is quite literally a hard limit because if it gets too fast it overflows to infinity delay
queen sail
Mining is capped at 1 block for tick
So if you aren’t going any faster, then that’s the max
@cosmic wraith
Also the stuff above mine
opal barn
And the cap on melee speed is necessary as well since above a certain number yoyos just stop working
hollow shell
Also, melee speed =/= mining speed.
Our cap on melee speed has no effect on toolspeed
queen sail
Because redcode GOD
sand umbra
blame yo-yo AI being retarded for that one
cosmic wraith
ive never had a problem with it not using calmity
queen sail
cosmic wraith
used to go underground with 5000% mining speed and just go so fast.
never had any kind of bugs
hollow shell
"Speed-modifying prefixes affect both mining speed and use time, potentially leading to the misconception that "melee speed" bonuses from armor and accessories improve mining speed. In truth, melee speed bonuses affect only use time, which is useful for combat but has absolutely no influence on mining speed. "
sand umbra
In truth, melee speed bonuses affect only use time, which is useful for combat but has absolutely no influence on mining speed
who the mother fuck wrote this
useTime is relevant to mining speed
it's useAnimation that is completely irrelevant to it
hollow shell
Well, it isn't, though
Hang on
@finite dock Add reasoning to your suggestion please
finite dock
Oj
queen sail
Something something consistency
sand umbra
you have a pick with a useAnimation of 20 and a useTime of 4
and a pick with a useAnimation of 20 and a useTime of 10
the first one (useTime of 4) will work at a rate of 5 hits per use, the second one (useTime of 10) will work at a rate of 2 hits per use
queen sail
Or “I want my house to look cool”
sand umbra
useAnimation doesn't actually affect anything here, mind you; I simply used it as a comparison point to help explain myself
but useTime directly affects how fast a mining/chopping/hammering tool functions
hollow shell
m, I think you're right on that
but
I do not know where to find how meleeSpeed affects useTime (nor do I have the time to research right now)
Feel free to look into it
or if you already know then shout at the wall I'm currently standing in front of but won't be in 5 seconds
terse sundial
ashen warren
SCal multiplayer changes
- Right now in multiplayer SCal is a bit of a mess with many things breaking. But this could be fixed by changing a few things:
- Make the bullet hells centre around the middle of the arena, not the targeted player. Right now it's difficult for players not being targeted as the bullets just come out of nowhere.
- Make the brothers centre around one player at a time. Right now they just fly madly left and right in an attempt to be around all players and it makes them stupidly difficult to hit and dodge.
- Make team respawns not activate the cheat detection. Right now, if one player dies but the fight continues long enough for them to come back and join in again, when you kill SCal she says that you didn't die once and must have cheated.
Why?: These changes would generally make the fight more enjoyable in a multiplayer environment, the boss already somewhat supports it by giving all players their own calamitous essence so it would be nice if it was accommodated in other areas of the fight too.
Thoughts?
sand umbra
meleeSpeed seems to affect useAnimation rather than useTime
although the series of fantastically strange checks items go through to be used are
unorganized, to put it very nicely
I will look further into this
distant gyro
ye
terse sundial
I don't know how to feel about that SCal suggestion
queen sail
I have a feeling that 70% of the issues that this game has would be fixed if relogic spent some of their time during their updates to clean up their code
Why did it take 7-8 years
hollow shell
(heehoo I am mobile)
@ashen warren That #3 actually has no effect. It's just because the death counter is based on how many times the fight ends and starts back up, rather than actually counting player deaths
radiant pawn
and its not like the rewards are different
ashen warren
I didn't know that, okay.
queen sail
Rewards only change if you kill her too fast
In which case you only get healing pots
hollow shell
(and by "too fast", that's "instantly")
ashen warren
Other than that, is there anything else in the suggestion that would warrant somebody yelling at me?
hollow shell
I guess not
though whether or not it gets bluechecked is debatable
cuz a very similar but not identical suggestion has been delivered before
ashen warren
Do you have a link to that suggestion?
ashen warren
hmm, I agree with the bullet hell other than the speeding up thing, that seems strange. Also randomly switching targets would be 
hollow shell
Well it'd make it so one single person doesn't get screwed the whole fight while everyone else has easystreet
ashen warren
I mean, I did it with a friend yesterday in rev and I was support and it's still difficult even for the support to help because of unpredictable movement.
Also the whole brothers having a meltdown thing.
ashen warren
Frans' suggestion would cause more issues than it would fix imo
hollow shell
🤷
ashen warren
I'll post it but I get the feeling that basically no-one would star, I haven't seen/heard of more than three instances of Calamity multiplayer. Most just go solo.
tired haven
@cosmic wraith I'm pretty sure the problem is that vanilla itself caps mining speed bonuses at 70%
That's not calamity issue
sand umbra
does it?
...oh yeah, it does
which is weird but whatever
chalk another one up to Terraria's wonky-ass mechanics
tired haven
And yes, melee speed has no effect on pickaxe mining speed either, only speed reforge like Light (which is a separate bruh moment)
sand umbra
melee speed having no effect on mining speed is
odd
and why is it melee speed in particular???
why not just general item use speed?????????
tired haven
Because that's the only class speed that has place in vanilla and ironically pickaxes are melee
tired haven
I'd Crystyl Crush this message
sand umbra
you use your hands to pull the trigger on a gun or pull back the string of a bow
you use your hands to open a book, use a magic gun, raise a staff
you use your hands to...well, I actually can't make much of an argument for summoner but
I'm sure you get the point
queen sail
It’s probably something having to do with pickaxes being counted as melee weps like 🦀 said ig
sand umbra
here's something funny
melee speed doesn't seem to actually affect use time at all, unless I'm looking at this check sequence entirely wrong
it affects useAnimation
but I can't find anything that hints at it affecting useTime
hollow shell
Prolly cuz it doesn't affect usetime
sand umbra
Terraria is a good game
tired haven
Well, it's probably due to "special" hitboxes of swords
For example, shooting melee certainly isn't sped up with melee speed, only the use sound of them
sand umbra
and because of how it works and the ItemCheck retardation, it can actually cripple shit like Vampire Knives to only fire every other use or what have you
because it never affects useTime at all, only useAnimation
and the firing of these projectiles relies on useTime rather than useAnimation
isn't redcode great
sand umbra
bruh sound effect 2
melee speed shouldn't even be melee-specific in the first place
it should be a universal statistic
queen sail
Btw speaking of weapons
Why do you hold out the entire fuckin book when using spell tomes
queen sail
Ah yes, violent
queen sail
Aka one of the most worthless reforges
Quick is for movement
Which uhhhh
Doesn’t mean much if you got shit like hermes boots
queen sail
Also yes that
cobalt rose
why are increases in attack speed only exclusive to melee
sand umbra
and melee speed is worthless for 3/4 classes
cobalt rose
yes ik prefixes do that but still
queen sail
Because muh 3rd ranged class
sand umbra
melee shouldn't be ranged in the first place
melee projectiles becoming the norm was a mistake
the class should have a focus on getting up close and personal with the enemy
but nooo, it's about muh OP sword of Cosmic God Veil Shard tier with 5012 different projectiles per fucking swing, the ability to be thrown at people, and the ability to just summon random shit out of nowhere because of course it can it's a sword it has to do everything that everything else can do but better instead of being a sword
cobalt rose
personally im ok with melee projectiles
sand umbra
don't overshoot what I'm saying
melee projectiles are fine in moderation
but the way they're handled currently just throws everything melee is supposed to mean out the window
it's literally become the "let's throw anything that doesn't fit elsewhere here" class and I hate that fact
cobalt rose
maybe just make melee projectiles have low range
tired haven
Tbh
Melee speed is good for reforge because it won't break shit balance wise (aside from baghs but that's a separate harhar moment)
Add speed to guns and we just got 
omega form
runic heath
I mean in vanilla it wasn’t like a huge thing. The biggest offenders were like star wrath and meowmere but those were endgame
tired haven
Or melee being melee and being unavailable to correctly get bonuses from extra speed on 4/5 of weapons
distant gyro
I wonder what's a good workaround Vampire Knives meme btw
cobalt rose
*3.5/4.5
runic heath
Having a bonus projectile on a decent cooldown was a nice bonus bit of damage
tired haven
Melee speed doesn't speed up projectile fire rate tho?
runic heath
Like terra blade? That projectile is pretty good, but it isn’t even that spammable
tired haven
The only sword it did for is Terra Blade
sand umbra
it doesn't, no
runic heath
I am more talking about projectile swords in general
I liked the whip swords as a nice way to give melee more range
sand umbra
then you get to the shit that's literally just lol projectiles
runic heath
Yeah
sand umbra
see: boomerangs, yo-yos, s-flame knife, daybreak, vamp knives, SotC
distant gyro
Give projectile swords ReuseDelay
tired haven
I mean, early projectile swords are literally on internal cooldown of about a second
sand umbra
yes
cobalt rose
to me yoyos are a gray area between actual melee and projectiles
sand umbra
and that's what makes them balanced
imagine if e.g. Enchanted Sword fired its projectile on every swing
tired haven
Not being able to receive melee speed is what made them a bit more balanced than said guns example, yes 
Also imagine terrablade
sand umbra
Terra Blade has a fat crafting tree and is a late-game sword
furthermore, it is made from two projectile-firing swords
I'm pretty sure there's a decent reason for it to have some focus on projectiles
Terra Blade's actual blade can still give some good damage on its own merit, though
tired haven
(you forgot main reasoning which is that terrablade only shoots projectile per 2-4 swings anyway)
cobalt rose
the reason for melee projectiles is because getting close enough to a boss so that you can hit it with your sword is very difficult
sand umbra
vanilla projectile swords do not focus on their projectiles
sand umbra
influx is from the fucking martians
tired haven
Which is vanilla
sand umbra
that is an exception, not an example
tired haven
Starfury
Meowmere
Star Wrath
sand umbra
Starfury is yes
terse sundial
sand umbra
Meowmere and Star Wrath are endgame weps
tired haven
Terra Blade itself that has 1.25x on projectiles but eh
tired haven
And at that point we listed like 2/3 of beam swords
If you count true NE/excalibur I'd eat you
runic heath
Chlorophyte claymore
sand umbra
the Chlorophyte series is weird
runic heath
but slow projectile recharge which is fine lol
terse sundial
I hate to interrupt this discussion, but I have a suggestion I want reviewed
Buff the Necklace of Vexation to not be a situational class emblem
The Necklace of Vexation currently boost the player's damage by 15% while they are under half health, which just makes this accessory a situational class emblem that is first available Post-Plantera. Buffing the necklace would turn this accessory from "just another throwaway accessory" to a situational yet viable alternative to class emblems or the Void of Extinction. Note that only the Necklace of Vexation should receive a buff, the Yharim's Insignia does not need a buff to it's inherited trait.
tired haven
Material accs
sand umbra
material accessories
tired haven
(add ironic taste)
sand umbra
please yes can we have this happen
not just to Vexlace, but to "material accessories" in general
runic heath
I mean the item alone does just seem to be a worse void of extinction
terse sundial
It's a worse class emblem available at a later stage of the game
sand umbra
because I'll be frank
a lot of them suck
and only exist to be mats for their respective mega-accs
terse sundial
well I'll work down the list, some I will probably directly post in the dev server
sand umbra
Necklace of Vexation buff/rework definitely gets my vote
tired haven
To be honest I agree, but there is lots of nuances to that
distant gyro
Necklace of Vexation is meme
runic heath
void of extinction is also available on the same tier and is better
distant gyro
Badge of Bravery is also meme
sand umbra
Orante Shield hours
tired haven
Mega-accs will have to nerf the effects much more in order to stay balanced
runic heath
since it gives +15% damage always and brimstone flame
sand umbra
to providence weaker versions of a ton of effects
distant gyro
Brave Badge is literally Feral Claw +3% speed
tired haven
Well yes but actually "hurrdurr why is this mega acc so bad"
distant gyro
terse sundial
Yharim's Insignia already nerfs the damage boost inherrited by the necklace
sand umbra
I remember maybe coming up with something for Vexlace a while back but I don't remember if I did or what it was
I should mull over that a bit more
tired haven
I don't protect mega acc and materials existence
I just explain what feels to be a general concern
terse sundial
I'll emphasize that only the necklace would be changed, not it's upgrades
tired haven
Personally I'd have ditched combos a fair bit
(hello celestial shell)
sand umbra
tbf I personally don't like the fact that many accessories just converge into one big fat accessory but that's a much broader topic I've already covered in here
cosmic void
I want to suggest adding Gingerbread and Frosting Blocks to Presents because it's December, and I think building Gingerbread houses would be adorable and cool. I don't know if that's a super valid reason though, as much as i'd like it
Kind of like how Candy Cane blocks drop
runic heath
I mean it is nice to be able to upgrade accessories, but they should stand on their own right. It is weird sometimes sitting on a pre hardmode accessory into late hardmode/post ML which was the case with old raider's talisman
well actually that's still the case with raider's
sand umbra
so here's the thing
I really like Raider's Talisman as it is right now
runic heath
it's just that rogue has other accessories
I don't have a huge issue with raider's, it was just weird for a while since it was basically the only rogue accessory
sand umbra
it is an early accessory that, while not upgraded into anything until post-DoG, can stand on its own
it doesn't need to be made into anything to be useful
runic heath
it also arguably improves over time since your crit chance increases making it better
distant gyro
One thing I don't like about raider is that it's essentially stronger than a rogue emblem
sand umbra
that's what I like about it
distant gyro
Because raider's stack never leave until you quit or die
hollow shell
Is Vexation not a greater dmg boost than emblems?
cobalt rose
sitting on a prehardmode accessory into post ML
did you mean: Siren's Heart
runic heath
It was just in a weird spot when it was the only rogue accessory
sand umbra
it's not
tired haven
It's not
cobalt rose
its the same
terse sundial
^
tired haven
Well, it kinda is if you compare it to avengers but avengers in first place is ack
runic heath
vexation's damage boost is only 15% but it's not present at all times so it's literally a worse class emblem/void of extinction
sand umbra
Vexlace is the same boost as any class emblem or EE Avenger Emblem (15%) with the condition of being below half health
terse sundial
that's why I suggested it Rover
sand umbra
deadass a straight downgrade
cobalt rose
tbf void of extinction is an expert accessory
runic heath
You can get void of extinction on the same tier and it's just better since it gives +15% damage to all classes always and also causes brimstone fire and gives lava resistance
hollow shell
ah
it's
greater than Avenger Emblem, the same as a class emblem, except it affects all damage
runic heath
oh I didn't actually consider that Xvader fair point
hollow shell
but nobody cares about multiclassing
sand umbra
and it only works below half health
tired haven
Avenger is worse than class because 15 goes to 12 and multiclass is dead so ye
runic heath
But yeah provided you are on expert void of extinction is entirely better
sand umbra
VoE literally does everything Vexlace does with less conditions and more effects
cobalt rose
@runic heath i assume why you didnt consider that is because you havent played in normal mode in like, forever
tired haven
I don't think anyone right here did
cobalt rose
dw i havent either
runic heath
I haven't played normal mode since expert came out
sand umbra
(provided, I'd appreciate if VoE in particular took some Cores of Chaos or something to give it some separation from VoC, but meh)
runic heath
I also just assumed all items are generally attainable because I forget that they aren't sometimes
sand umbra
see, even on normal
Vexlace sucks
because given where you get it, you're more likely than not taking too little damage to trigger its effect in the first place
runic heath
Why isn't there an accessory to half your health for the cool synergy with low health items smh
cobalt rose
what would be a more fair/worthwhile damage boost? 20%? 25%?
runic heath
or just make it a multiclass emblem lol
sand umbra
stock 15%, increases as health lowers
sand umbra
Regenator is good mem
runic heath
oh yeah that is an item that halves your health
cobalt rose
but doesnt it halve your max health
tired haven
It does but spaghett
runic heath
yeah +15% and then ramps up to idk 25% probably would be relatively balanced
tired haven
So the game sees it as 50%
sand umbra
specifically, Calamity sees it as 50%
runic heath
It would be an alternative to VoE
And stand entirely on its own as a relatively good accessory
tired haven
Tbh I should try it again, but pretty sure frozen shell and fishron mount did react
runic heath
oh fishron would be a big meme
queen sail
Speaking of Regenator
tired haven
Well see, there isn't a single effect that reduces max health in vanilla so it's bound to be unchecked
sand umbra
fair
queen sail
I feel like thomas’ statement that the component accessories are really just being treated as components can be applied to ornate shield
cobalt rose
you can't blame programmers for not checking for things that shouldn't happen in normal, vanilla gameplay
tired haven
You can, but that won't sound too appealing
tired haven
Flesh knuckles™️
sand umbra
Abaddon is sorta like this as well, while we're on the subject of A-Valor components
cobalt rose
since its crystal, an appropriate effect for ornate shield would be to shoot out crystal shards when you get hit
sand umbra
although it actually does something compared to Ornate Shield
queen sail
That would make it slightly less uninteresting yes
tired haven
That's for nerds that equip worm scarf prehm, altix
distant gyro
Equipping worm scarf at all
runic heath
Equipping worm scarf because it looks cool
cobalt rose
my idea for actual shields in the game would work like this:
they reduce the damage you take by a certain amount, but the damage absorbed counts as damage to the shield.
once it takes enough damage, it breaks, and takes time to regenerate
some shields would have special effects upon breaking.
lilac nacelle
IIRC another mod does that
tired haven
Thorium shields are pretty close to that
lilac nacelle
can't remember which one was it
cobalt rose
thorium shields are just a health buffer, like soul hearts in tboi
lilac nacelle
maybe if cool shield functionality wasn't relegated to a single weapon in vanilla, melee weapons wouldn't have to be ranged 2.0
runic heath
regenerator doesn't seem to make vexlace work better
runic heath
nor does it seem to make shrimpy truffle work better
cobalt rose
what i meant by "reduce damage by a certain amount" is damage reduction.
cobalt rose
example: a shield blocks 40% of damage taken. if an attack deals 100 damage, you will take 60 damage and the shield will take 40.
tired haven
Well, dark souls/rpg shields except since we don't have stamina shields will have to have their own
lilac nacelle
maybe even have pickups that replace most hearts
cobalt rose
i mean, i came up with this idea on my own, i didn't know about it being a mechanic in other games
lilac nacelle
survivability without actually getting healed, therefor not making potions useless
gusty geode
When an accessory that activates after you've taken a lot of damage is seen as situational
tired haven
I just pull similar cases to ease the imagination, not trying to accuse or smth
cobalt rose
i dont think you are accusing me, i'm just trying to get it out there that i wasn't trying to copy anything.
lilac nacelle
its an idea from 25 years ago, someones bound to have it again at some point
tired haven
Yeah, at this point most games just kinda go in circles and that's fine
lilac nacelle
btw
what is the purpose and design philosophy behind the magnum and its double use limitation?
lilac nacelle
because i like how it looks and sounds and want to use it
runic heath
Which really duping ammo shouldn’t be a reason to nerf something but idk
lilac nacelle
people cheat if they really want to?
who could have seen that coming!
"i used godmode, pls buff green slime"
runic heath
There might have been a different reason
lilac nacelle
because with the limited ammo, i dont want to use it at all
because either
A. i use it and win, and now i feel like i need to use it again, but it wont last
B. i use it and lose, and have now squandered my chances completely
C. tough through everything without using them in fear of the above two happening, turning the item into useless clutter
gusty geode
Maybe instead of finite uses per boss
Just give it a stupidly long use time
So you use it once and can't use it again for like 30 seconds-a minute
lilac nacelle
i was actually thinking:
no hardcap on ammo/uses
BUT
unique damage type
each shot increases the boss' resistance to it
now usable as a normal weapon, while keeping it strong against bosses without trivializing it AND doesn't harshly punish you for missing or dying
zealous ridge
The reason it’s limited to two shots per boss fight is because it inflicts massive damage
hollow shell
which
isn't really the best game design
dusty stirrup
sand umbra
what actual purpose do the RE trio serve again
I'd honestly be all for removing them or just
making them normal fucking guns
ashen warren
tbh
hollow shell
Fabsol enjoyed the mechanic of having actually meaningful weapons which you have a limited supply of
that you have to use wisely
sand umbra
does anyone actually use these things though
or are they just there because hey this is a weapon of big fuck off damage
queen sail
The issue with giving these stupidly op situational items that are permanently limited is that nobody uses them because they want to save it when “they really need it”
sand umbra
which you're supposed to use wisely, which is a nice thought on paper, except anything that made them that powerful or actually worth saving ammo for is strictly prohibited
queen sail
So, more or less
hollow shell
Yeah pretty much, Kirby
sand umbra
pretty much, yes
hollow shell
Never used Purified Jam ever.
queen sail
Only used Purified Jam once
lilac nacelle
paradoxically nullifying their own purpose
placid girder
yeah ive only seen jam used for true melee memes
queen sail
Literally one of the first things I put for general calamaso changes was plant gaining sub shocker resistance
Purified Jam is extremely situational
lilac nacelle
if you really want to use them, youll have to just make throwaway farming characters and worlds and keep transferring items back and forth
OR
save 4 hours of your life and spawn them in with cheat sheet
queen sail
And even then it has consequences
pulsar wagon
the guns are good for The Speedrun Boys but thats like 3 people
sand umbra
- turn the RE trio into triplet high-damage, high use time classless weps and make their respective ammos actually worth farming
OR
b) kill the RE trio
lilac nacelle
they feel a bit crutch-esque
hollow shell
Again, Fab likes them
sand umbra
in any event, the RE trio of guns just feels...honestly, really unnecessary?
lilac nacelle
but if you need to use them once, you'll prob need to use them more than you get ammo
sand umbra
though I can say that about a good bunch of things, really
hollow shell
(also, "trio"
There's five.)
lilac nacelle
technically
sand umbra
technically, yes, but I'm counting Magnum line as one for the purpose of the expression
queen sail
There’s a difference between adding things to help the mod and adding things because 
lilac nacelle
there's 3 ammo types
tired haven
Ah yes, "too good to be used" items discussion
Lovin' it
sand umbra
hi Crab
ashen warren
crab say a thing
queen sail
Does crab have a deditated wep yet
hollow shell
It's planned.
lilac nacelle
crabs are already in vanilla
queen sail
But not out
lilac nacelle
:v
hollow shell
Ye
gotta get through other dedicated stuff first
queen sail
:pensive_rick:
sand umbra
the RE guns are pretty 
they're big and they're fat and they're super strong
but by the time you need them, the game's long gone
hollow shell
When the world needed them most...
lilac nacelle
what if
you wanted to main a cool gun
but fabsol said
4 bullet per world
hollow shell
They were around
but still didn't get used cuz like what if the world really needed them most later
queen sail
Per world is Purified Jam
ashen warren
t b h
sand umbra
queen sail
Re gun ammo is renewable
lilac nacelle
doesnt the ammo only drop on first kills?
sand umbra
these guns are literally the epitome of "you will never use this weapon"
lilac nacelle
or first kill per character?
queen sail
Yes but you can but them from the arms dealer
queen sail
Ech useless
hollow shell
Yeah that hasn't been a thing for like a year
queen sail
Too situational
ashen warren
ozzy starred the sugma 
sand umbra
the ammo being yoinked from Arms Dealer's wares doesn't help their already flimsy case
queen sail
Terry use your god powers to do something about the re guns
hollow shell
Well that's their whole point
ashen warren
my godly powers are consolidated in fargo land
queen sail
sand umbra
and like
honestly, if someone's gonna cheese with these weps or anything else
who actually fucking cares, it's a sandbox game at its core and always will be
hollow shell
Money is easy to come by in Terraria
Even if you made em like 20 Plat per bullet they'd still be decently renewable
cyan lagoon
The ammo is fine as is
queen sail
The issue is that they’re designed in such a way that they’re a panic button
But they’re also designed to be limited for balance
cyan lagoon
Hell; even better than what vanilla did with ranger
hollow shell
RE guns are not Halibut Cannon
They ain't mode-exclusive 1 in a million drops
There should not be a readily available intentional "cheese the whole game" option
sand umbra
I am aware of this fact
but they are not only given this aura of "I could use this now, but what if I really need it later"
but the various limitations placed on them makes them underwhelming given that aura even in the clutch cases where you do use them
there is no reward or repayment for saving the ammo
there's very little reason to use the weps in the first place, especially since shit you can get on-tier does similar stuff in decent enough time
queen sail
This is even banked on the fact that you do beat the boss in the end
sand umbra
yeah, all this is assuming you even beat the boss
if you don't? congrats, you've learned that the gun does not fix anything
queen sail
You can waste all your re gun ammo on scal but if you suck, you suck
sand umbra
and you've wasted 3 shots you'll never get back
lilac nacelle
you die, you squandered it, and wouldn't have won anyway
you win without it, don't bother even getting the weapon in the first place
sand umbra
basically
queen sail
^ exactly
lilac nacelle
it really is a catch 22
sand umbra
so in the end, despite their strength, you have zero practical reason to use them
they are only there to lend the game their daunting, godly auras
sand umbra
I'm as much a fan of prop guns as the next guy, but this is ridiculous
queen sail
Change re guns to be sniper-esque weapons or smth
I dunno
I ain’t a modder
:blobshrug:
simple hamlet
Ooo can we rename the magnum to the big iron. THATD BE AMAZING
tired haven
doubt
hollow shell
WeaponOut installation mandatory
wooden wedge
god
simple hamlet
Rover knows whats up
lilac nacelle
should it be the magnum or the elephant killer though
tired haven
Does RE4 have Big Iron?
simple hamlet
You let it rip, the BIG IRON ON YOUR HIP
wooden wedge
big iron on his hip
lilac nacelle
vaguely related: has there ever been a dual wield pistol weapon?
simple hamlet
Strongest magnum upgrade is big iron
simple hamlet
Part of me just wants to make an addon mod that renames the Magnum to the Big Iron, Its upgrade to Bigger iron, ect.
lilac nacelle
the middle upgrade is the lightning hawk, and isn't a revolver
so "one deag"?
deals extra damage if bullet hits the top 5th of an enemy's hitbox
lilac nacelle
basically free damage if attacking from above
versed mica
gusty geode
Still a great idea tho
Waiting until the right moment to use the weapon effectively
But the right moment is determined not by the player, but the boss
tired haven
@exotic zenith Please edit your suggestion in a way that will not directly link to the other suggestion. It has to stand on its' own
mystic flax
buff elephant killer's damage or add another upgrade so it stays usuable post-guardians
because its absolute shit for a post-ml gun
tired haven
It's supposed to utilize the % dmg mostly, not actual one
(and for non-boss encounters it's pretty damn powerful albeit the ammo will make you never use it but eh)
Since Voidwalker won't respond, I'd remove their suggestion and put the copy here:
"to the one above, in my opinion it'd be even more interesting if bosses had momentary phases when they're specially vurnable to magnum, I.e. take eye of cthulu, in the small breaks between charges or during change it could flash some yellow light indicating that it is the moment that makes magnum deal lets say twice the damage or something, or even make magnum deal even less damage but during that moment deal waay more to reward a player for timing it right, just my idea, this'd make the game easier for experienced player and reward him for his knowledge"
so they could edit it appropriately and post again
gusty grail
Please i really want the ability to remove the mining and melee cap
Espiecially now that the soul artifact doesnt remove the melee cap anymore
tired haven
Mining speed cap is vanilla thing
As for melee speed, well, it would be a valid request, but I doubt it will pass
(because of how broken things become past certain point)
exotic zenith
@tired haven sure thing, working on it
tired haven
Aight
exotic zenith
I guess it looks fine now
tired haven
Yeah, now it seems to be a proper one
(i'm kinda interested on feedback ngl because the idea is unusual)
exotic zenith
Well, I was thinking as calamity already offers some bullet hell mechanics which are common in retro shoot em ups, that this idea would fit the game as it's also connected to the theme
and would make using magnum-kind weapons a bit more satisfying/rewarding
this could easily be expanded to be high risk / high reward for some kind of death mode or such by punishing player when their attack has been timed badly (just a evil idea to further push the suffering of players in death mode 😂)
potent veldt
Idea: Make summoner accessories that have more than just a minion have their minion be toggleable via visibility. To make it more fair so it's just not less effective, make it so when the visibility is off, some stats corresponding to the minion are increased.
As an example, the Amalgam's fungul clump could be turned off to instead give a simple +1 life regen and +3% damage or something.
void kelp
so basically give similar effects like HoTE?
potent veldt
Yeye
severe vapor
Would a yoyo that drops from hive mind and is craftable from true shadow scales be a good idea?
And one for perforators as well
frail mantle
Perfs already drop a yoyo
golden narwhal
aerialite yoyo exists, im pretty sure
sand umbra
Perfs drop a yo-yo already, ye
and either one unlocks Air Spinner
the only annoying thing is being stuck with Riptide until those two but I digress
(and tbf I'd rather there not be a HiiH MiiM throw --- it's best to encourage diversity amongst the two evils)
void kelp
@ruby hound it might help to include that the vanilla sword shrine has a similar indicator
golden narwhal
there's a yoyo for perfs and a flamethrower for HM, thats diversity
sand umbra
ye ye
that's the kinda thing I'm talkin' about
I like it that way
it's best when the two evils aren't the same because then each one has advantages and disadvantages
...and to be frank, if you don't like one's drops, the Evil Island exists for a reason
radiant meadow
@swift bison the clump uses local i frames so it shouldn't interfere
any interference would be from other stuff like the brimstone rain
swift bison
huh, iirc it used to interfere in any case
lilac nacelle
just get the projectile piercing fix mod
finally, meteor shot boomstick that does full damage
it SHOULD work with modded stuff too, unless the thing is coded from the ground up
elder apex
fungal clump doesn't interfere, I'm using it and am 100% sure
gusty geode
They're meant to be different
If you don't like the one you have, Evil Island is a thing
Evil Island kinda makes the biomes being different pointless imo
Since if they're different, there's gonna inevitably be a worse one
And you're able to leave said worse one in the dust even if you don't get it normally because of the Evil Island
queen sail
The issue more prevalent with evil islands is that they spawn so high up and have such little space that the biome specific mobs don’t even spawn
lilac nacelle
does it actually count as the biome?
ruby hound
I usually just cheat in the evil biome seeds and make an artificial evil biome
lilac nacelle
can you summon the boss up there?
gusty geode
-The problem isn't that they completely invalidate the choice of what world evil you have, which is meant to be an important one that affects your entire playthrough
-It's that they don't do it properly
lilac nacelle
i just use terracustom to spawn both
and keep retrying with worldgen previewer until shit doesn't completely break
cough cough abyss eating half the dungeon cough
ruby hound
I just want to fight all the bosses, that's it
Even though fighting EoW in the biome you made in the sky is not the most fun expirience I've had
mellow bay
I have an old suggestion with 87 stars (cmon almost there)
ruby hound
88 now 😎
sand umbra
Evil Island kinda makes the biomes being different pointless imo
Since if they're different, there's gonna inevitably be a worse one
so I agree with you here but also not
the world evils are by their very design meant to be an isolated experience
they are not balanced with each other in mind
Ichor is proof of that above all else
it's not that the differences are pointless per se or that there needs to be a worse one
it's that the actual weighing of options between them is heavily skewed
the fact that Calamity makes both accessible no matter what and takes no steps to balance out CI and Ichor makes Crimson objectively better
because Ichor curbstomps CI any day of the week
please tell me if I'm misunderstanding the prompt here
I really believe that having both evils shouldn't be as prevalent a thing unless the outliers are taken care of and there are actually reasonable advantages and disadvantages to attending to either one --- it shouldn't just be free game to get all the options from both whenever you reach a major point
because the fact that Calamity tries so hard, in what is arguably the wrong way, to make both evils relevant to everything...just kinda causes one to be completely forgone in favor of the other
zealous ridge
i dont really think it's strictly calamity's fault that the evils are skewed in potential rewards
sand umbra
oh absolutely not, it's largely vanilla's fault and I won't deny that
zealous ridge
the fact that both are available in a single world may make the better choice the obvious choice without much of an excuse
besides "muh grinding lol"
sand umbra
Crimson is relevant even in a Corruption world.
Corruption is completely irrelevant even in worlds where it's the main evil.
zealous ridge
so is that your main problem?
sand umbra
The issue is that balancing is...very heavily skewed towards Crimson, mainly in Hardmode
Calamity doesn't really amplify or fix the issue, not leaning either way, but it does make it more apparent
see also: Fetid Bag...things..., Panic Necklace, the retardation that is Ichor as a debuff, Spear of Destiny, etc.
tired haven
it does amplify it by adding more post-WoF content which favors ichor and making ichor even better than cursed inferno but eh
zealous ridge
yeah the way ichor interacts with dr is changed in cal
sand umbra
actually yeah who the fuck am I kidding
Calamity amplifies the issue tenfold because Ichor becomes even more stupid
what with a 25% Rev+ DR cut compared to the 20% granted to CI
zealous ridge
stacked on top of a defense reduction
sand umbra
YEP
so that's -20 defense and -25% DR from Ichor...
...and CI just gets its miserable 6 HP/sec DoT and an additional -20% DR that is overridden by Ichor anyway. nice
zealous ridge
so, strictly speaking, would buffing CI partially alliveate the problem?
sand umbra
CI buff has been sugg'd a multitude of times in the past
zealous ridge
yeah, im aware iirc
sand umbra
spoiler alert: it has never happened
zealous ridge
sand umbra
tired haven
One thing to consider is that if CI and Ichor would have different pluses, what would their combo look like? Best of two or medium of two?
sand umbra
their combo would look like yes
tired haven
Right now Ichor just is counted regardless, since it has both stats better
zealous ridge
idea i just came up with now:
Change to how CI and Ichor work
Ichor starts off with it's base DR reduction, but halfway through it's duration the defense and DR penalty are weakened, either slowly dulled more and more over the rest of the duration or a general drop in potency.
Cursed inferno starts off with weak DR penalties and 6 dps, but halfway through the duration of the debuff the dps increases and the DR penalty increases, either more and more over the rest of the duration or a jump in potency.
(if you need clarification just ask)
sand umbra
thought:
CI stacks
this was something that was pitched in here before and people seemed to like it
like, inflicting CI multiple times in a short duration stacks its DoT
could prove a unique mechanic
also allow me to say something:
why the actual mother fuck do CI and Ichor reduce DR in Rev+ in the first place
zealous ridge
to be completely honest, im not sure
sand umbra
they don't need to, quite frankly. the fact that they do only serves to nullify most of the point of giving Rev+ opponents DR in the first place
it's incredibly counter-intuitive and I'd prefer if they just stuck to their own unique functions rather than "lol add DR cut meme"
blazing trench
Man world evils just feel kind of annoying honestly and also unbalanced
tired haven
It's to provide fair amount of opportunities to counteract the DR addition
I believe at least
blazing trench
Like wowza its gonna spread and that's sort of lame
tired haven
Well, that's for vanilla bashing topic
zealous ridge
but ichor and CI arent really Rev specific debuffs regardless
blazing trench
Yep yep Im heading out
sand umbra
if they were Rev+ debuffs I'd get it but like
isn't the DR there in the first place to make otherwise glass-cannon enemies actually formidable opponents
...oh, and then by the time it becomes actually relevant to remove that much, there are special mechanics that keep you from doing that
because lole
zealous ridge
the thing is too, that Marked already exists as a debuff solely useful in Rev+ for DR
i understand that opening up more effects to affect DR isn't a bad thing, but Marked already exists for this exact purpose of reducing DR and it is very much still overshadowed by ichor and CI because theyre easier to apply and decrease DR similarly
id like to see more rev+ debuffs personally
like maybe the horror could be applied by certain effects