Except Guardians
#suggestions-discussion
queen sail
hollow shell
Oh right you were the guy that posted the really angry one
I was about to link to it
queen sail
Yes that’s me
Bc this issue has prevailed ever since Profaned Core became nonconsumable
Well, with unholy frags, anyways
queen sail
But still
The fact they’re apparently not getting anything worthwhile is a big :echthink: moment
teal ibex
i still think we're missing out on a very important purpose that they serve which is to introduce a precursor that creates a pseudo-tutorial for the upcoming boss
that doesn't happen like... anywhere else. it's not inherently and invalid concept.
in my opinion, it would be worth having more instances of things like this, but perhaps making them optional
queen sail
The thing is the tutorial does not last very long
hollow shell
It's not a very good precursor
They only share like 2 attacks?
teal ibex
does it need to?
teal ibex
i'm not saying they totally prep you for the providence fight or anything, truthfully it's far from it, my point is mostly in response to the ever exaggerated "profaned guardians are useless" comment
they do have purpose and i believe it's not far from being fulfilled, i don't disagree they could use adjusting
hollow shell
I feel like the sentiment that Guardians are only meant to be a lead-up to Providence is also overstated
It's the argument to go to for whenever someone argues that they should suck less
teal ibex
if it serves as reasoning that they shouldn't be reworked then yeah that's a perfectly invalid argument.
my point is once again specifically in regards to the "guardians pointless" sentiment, it bugs me and i feel it important to point out
like i said, i think guardians should be made optional or given more similarities to providence (perhaps the debuff that she applies so it's not so out-of-nowhere) so that their purpose is more clear and meaningful
but either way, boss reworks are a lot and will happen probably regardless of any input from #suggestions-voting imo -- not to be demeaning or anything, i think that's just the dose of reality in this situation
lost agate
You know, its funny, the guardians got nerfed in one test version
When they got new spear patterns
Pretty much because anywhere near them became a zone of death
And i mean it still kind of is, with the slingshotting guardians and such
The problem is, they become trivial if you just run
Its interesting, both profaned bosses had or has problems with people just running
Anywho thats how i see it
teal ibex
i mean, i still think that regardless of what #suggestions-voting sends it'll get changed eventually independent of what happens here
as has pretty much every boss change with some far between exceptions
hollow shell
(Suggestions probably help. They haven't been changed much since their conception...)
lost agate
The first change would be killing running strats very much
teal ibex
i think suggestions help with stuff like sentinels rover
lost agate
Or at least
teal ibex
where it's like a particular simple adjustment that's very popular
lost agate
Make running not a won card
teal ibex
but with something like profaned guardians the suggestion is usually just "make it better. maybe do this"
acoustic ferry
give them the holy inferno radius and remove the slingshotting 
teal ibex
and i don't think that's ever gonna go win over
hollow shell
The thing is, Guardians kinda need more than a simple adjustment
lost agate
Can we agree that guardians are actually a threat when up close?
teal ibex
exactly, that's why i don't think suggestions is the way to get that
oh yeah absolutely
that's the only threat really 
lost agate
Aight thats a good start
tired haven
In fact, I'd believe they may be a bit too much of a threat when nearby
No one just actually tries to stand here to realize that
hollow shell
Running strats necessitated/encouraged, then?
acoustic ferry
basically
they're slingshotting so hard that having them anywhere except the edge of your screen or further will get them to punt you into oblivion
not even counting that one that charges down at you like a fat, saucy corite covered in glue
hollow shell
I'm pretty sure there was an update recently that reduced the gluiness of Guardians and bosses with similar function
Like, they stop chasing you for a moment once they make contact
But I haven't fought them in a long while, so I can't attest to that
tired haven
I won't say they are encouraged, because currently it's a free boss fight on its' own
When running
acoustic ferry
was it .107?
because if it wasnt it still stickied onto me from 600 hp to 0 when i tried to do non-run strats
hollow shell
1.4.2.101. May of this year.
opal barn
It didn't work then because guardians still can sometimes stick to you
hollow shell
Damn
mellow bay
I think some ranged/quicker attacks would make the fight better
If not want to change just drop them to providence only
Thats my opinion
You guys do whatever you want
acoustic ferry
tbh it might've just been me being shit at the game (example being dying to profaned guardians 4 times
)
maybe i started flying up too late
actually im gonna go test this out
lost agate
I had some wild ideas for guardians actually
Its a lil extensive so imma put it on a txt file or something
(ofc im not gonna suggest it cuz is beyond specific)
But heres the first idea
What if, when a guardian died, a flame spawned, said flames would just go up into the sun
Going back to where they belong after being beaten
hollow shell
That'd be a neat visual detail
lost agate
Ok now, what if, instead having provi spawn the guardians, seemingly out of nowhere, 3 flames spawned, and you guess it, those are the guardians, once you beat them, a small, almost extinguished flame comes back to provi to give her power for the final assault
sand umbra
this sounds hella cool
hollow shell
and because of that, there is no chance in hell it'd get implemented 
lost agate
Well, its about time i learn how to do npcs you know
tired haven
I guess problem with guardians is that they are supposed to be a phase of a bigger boss
tired haven
Well, yes
hollow shell
They're a separate boss and they're also a phase
Separate boss shouldn't be treated like it's a part of Provvy
acoustic ferry
ok so from the testing i did, the guardian decided to glue onto me if it started the attack way above me, and if during that charge i was anywhere close to hugging it when it would've normally ended
tired haven
Currently I believe the only way to make them meaningful is to add a new element/phase
hollow shell
mhm
acoustic ferry
so yeah, doesn't happen often but they can still glue into you for two hits everytime it does
lost agate
Oh that flame thing was only the first idea
I have a bunch more
But as i said, txt file
hollow shell
I personally had a Guardian rework idea
that is
They're all vulnerable from the start instead of there being a "main" guardian
and when the other two are killed, the final one restores a good amount of (or all) health, and gets buffed in a way specific to which type it is
and this buff would pertain to different aspects of Provvy
for instance, if the Rock guardian is the last one, it does a bullet-hell-ish cocoon attack
if the Crystal guardian is the last one, it starts firing up falling crystal shards (and/or doing a mini True Eye-esque Holy Ray)
and the 'Fire' guardian could shoot decently large Holy Blasts that explode into more projectiles (or be the one to fire the Holy Ray instead)
tired haven
for some reason I imagined rockpaperscissors, mhm
But yeah buffing the last one while all are vulnerable as well sounds pretty sick
hollow shell
I was always weirded out by the fact that there was a "main" guardian
For the first few months of me knowin about the mod I just assumed that they were all vulnerable because they were equals
lost agate
That could work too
Instead of the flames going up each time you kill a guardian, they go to another guardian
Tho im curious about how you make a healer dangerous by itself
mellow bay
I still like my idea of a horizontal charge leaving behind flames just like leviathan, boss rush EoC and retinazer for the flame one
hollow shell
Well its got the big ole crystal on it so like I said it could do Prov's crystal shard attack
(or the Holy Ray cuz that comes out of Provvy's crystal)
It could be the only one with some life regen to make killing it more of a pain
lost agate
Maybe a lesser laser yeah
hollow shell
like ML's popped-out eyes
A horizontal charge like those other bosses is becoming a bit common, but it would be better than Corite
mellow bay
And it could home in like the thunderbird from thorium (ehhh or maybe not)
hollow shell
Isn't that dash very similar if not the same?
Lining up next to you, kinda hovering in that place for a moment, before crossing?
lost agate
Rev EoC kinda does that already ye
hollow shell
Nah, Rev EoC does it too
mellow bay
But your idea was good too
gusty geode
I still think a good mechanic for rev+ Guardians would be to make it so they respawn after a little bit if there are others still alive
So you could only permanently kill them if you kill all 3 in rapid succession
teal ibex
that'd arbitrarily punish piercing and homing soooooooooo
hollow shell
Well it'd both reward and punish piercing
in that it'd be easier for you to lower all of their healths simultaneously, but make it harder for you to only hurt one specifically and make accidental pre-emptive killing more common
teal ibex
since one of the guardians has significantly more health it'd be a bit taxing to get that to work
and the other guardians centralize on that guardian
hollow shell
Well if they get reworked to all be vulnerable at once I assume that one guy's health would be nerfed.
teal ibex
i mean, probably
i just have an immense hatred for this gimmick and would like to see it go away pls
runic heath
I don't think reviving is a great idea, but if that is the case make it so the revive comes with decreased health
teal ibex
what if instead of a lesser laser/crystal they incorporated slightly nerfed versions of provi's base attacks? theoretically each could incoporate one of her lesser attacks (direct spears, blobs, amd flare orbs) and swap between each
tired haven
It's pretty obvious it won't come with full health revive
gusty geode
Well, yeah
Wouldn't be back at full health
Quarter health, maybe
teal ibex
that way the laser and crystal are still special to provi
runic heath
like the revived guardian has their health halved each time. First revive 50%, second 25%, etc.
teal ibex
runic heath
They use their special merge attack and combine to form a stronger super guardian
teal ibex
they just become provi
gusty geode
Anyway
I think it's a good idea
Discouraging blind focus fire and forcing the player to slow down and think a little, learn when to change targets to make finishing them off all at once that much easier
runic heath
Just have the boss summon more of it so you have to kill the other boss so they aren't stuck in an infinite loop DoG time
I mean I guess it would add a little bit of difference to the fight in that it doesn't just get substantially easier by focus firing one down at a time
lost agate
Imagine you get all 3 guardians back cuz you couldnt kill them in time
wouldnt that be fun
runic heath
As said before, they wouldn't revive with full hp
gusty geode
That would be the player's own fault, not leaving the others at low enough health to be able to kill them before the others respawn
lost agate
so it just extending the fight for little reason
runic heath
I personally don't think dragging a fight out longer through revives is really a great solution though
lost agate
Imagine punishing the player with a 4x longer fight cuz they didnt have piercing
its just a recipe to be an ass fight
gusty geode
I imagine they'd respawn at no more than a quarter health
Fight wouldn't be too much longer unless you were really bad at managing their health
teal ibex
its also unintuitive because existing calamity respawn mechanics function differently
lost agate
not much point
teal ibex
if i was new to calamity id not understand why they kept respawning until i was told the mechanic
like, yeah, there are advantages in that you have to be precise and you get the whole collective instead of cutting one by one
gusty geode
That could be fixed with a special message
Something about them reforming using the energy of their brethren or something like that
teal ibex
but there's way too much room for frustration and confusion
lost agate
A special message to tell you, your weapon sucks go get another one
cuz thats fun also
DoG used to revive itself back then, and look where that is
long gone
ashen warren
i miss that
lost agate
it was a meme but still ass for non memes
acoustic ferry
respawn bosses are stupid, it invalidates your progress whenever the rez happens
lost agate
just imagine if spaz/ret revived
teal ibex
you dont have to
gusty geode
I mean
Keep in mind the Guardians wouldn't respawn immediately
You'd have a window to finish the others
10-20 seconds, probably
teal ibex
terrys right there
lost agate
Hol up seriously
teal ibex
y e s
lost agate
And as i said baked
its either ass or means nothing
thats how revives are most of the time
gusty geode
I mean
Isn't the fight supposed to be easier if the player knows what they're doing
lost agate
Uh, thats just artificial difficulty
you dont learn the fight
you just kill faster
i dont see how thats properly rewarding in any way
mellow bay
DoG used to spawn another one in a quarter and if you didn't drop this one into a quarter and killed themother one then another one would spawn the place of the 1st one
lost agate
and thats how it had to be, to be meaningful in any way
doesnt mean it was good
if another DoG spawn rarely with a quarter of healt
it would be piss easy to deal with
It one thing or the other
gusty geode
Basically what I'm getting is
The mechanic goes from annoyingly hard to deal with to so easy it's pointless
Based on player experience
lost agate
its not a good mechanic at all
its not about player experience
And with guardians, it doesnt make much sense
theyre not all that powerful even lore wise, theres no way they would just reconstruct themselves
lost agate
no its ok if they are a bit harder
mellow bay
The point on my suggestion is that the boss almost free
lost agate
but reviving is not the way to go
mellow bay
They can get some more difficulty but regviving a boss just makes everything worse
Hmmm i had another idea
tired haven
Lore-wise guardians reforming makes sense as prov revives them, but that's a tad of a stretch
mellow bay
^
hollow shell
Being able to refight Profaned Guardians is one of the only refights that can be considered canon
and there's no reason to refight them
carmine spindle
Just make them follow you for the rest of the game
Wait, make them drop Divine Geodes?
void kelp
avoid chaining your suggestions; have them stand alone from one another @mellow bay
carmine spindle
Aren't there recipies which don't need other Post Prov Items
mellow bay
I mean you can might refight the sentinels and bumblebirb for drops
sand umbra
I find it hilarious how the two fights right before Provi are the two that make the most sense to refight canonically speaking
yet neither of them have much reason to be fought more than once at their tier
mellow bay
Birbs can canonically be fought at the entire post ml
@sand umbra dragonfruit and dragon egg
sand umbra
neither of these items are pre-Provi
try again
just about anything you could want from Birb will generally be obtained in one kill
Swordsplosion gets special mention as one of the few things that actually makes Birb good to farm
elder mist
swordsplosion's only good on provi
sand umbra
ye
elder mist
everything else ark of the elements tends to be better against
mellow bay
Is the elemental lance still useless
mossy shale
Is there a reason why rogue stuff isnt compatible with other throwing weapons, especially since their compatible the other way around?
void kelp
Bc rogue is its own class
the cross compatibility is in the sense of rogue can benefit from throwing; for throwing to benefit from rogue would likely have to be an action done from other mods’ ends
mossy shale
I think it's been confirmed that rogue is internally the exact same as throwing
wooden wedge
no?
mossy shale
Like it just has a different name
And that's what's keeping rogue stuff from benefiting throwing stuff
wooden wedge
I'm pretty sure one doesn't affect the other
void kelp
internally speaking, rogue is built on top of throwing
rogue is throwing in the sense a square is a rectangle
wooden wedge
and the fact that they are still different
void kelp
throwing affects rogue, but rogue does not affect throwing
mossy shale
I mean it shouldn't be hard for rogue to benefit throwing too
Since throwing is a vanilla class
wooden wedge
it's being deleted anyway so it wouldn't matter too much
wooden wedge
huh
mossy shale
Yeah, since so many mods improve on the throwing class
They wanted to ensure compatibility stays
void kelp
if rogue wanted to be throwing, it’d also benefit throwing
mellow bay
Throwing + melee = rogue
void kelp
adding some sort of cross compatibility is not in the devs’ plans
mossy shale
But it can be
Do we even know the devs plans lol
I wouldnt take everything the devs say as final word
void kelp
yeah. The whole “suggestion donts” doc in the pins literally says this about throwing / rogue
- Any suggestions about connecting the Rogue and Throwing classes in some way, via compatibility, replacement, etc.
Example: A config that converts all Rogue items into Throwing items.
Reason: Rogue is meant to be a class that stands as its own thing, and we’re not going to remove it nor make it compatible with throwing, even if the reason is to make it compatible with other mods. Also, Throwing will be removed from the vanilla game in the 1.4 update. Any suggestions about the Rogue class should be focused on making it more unique, not more similar to throwing.
mossy shale
But is there even a reason? Especially since throwing isnt even internally being removed in tmodloader
wooden wedge
the reason was in the thing that he sent
mossy shale
Yeah
void kelp
this is quite literally copied straight from the suggestion donts document
wooden wedge
tehy don't want it to be similar
void kelp
here I bolded the part you should read
mossy shale
I understand that they want it to be separate, but what is the point of the rogue class in the first place?
void kelp
to be a separate class.
wooden wedge
the point is that it's a new class
mossy shale
What benefit do they even get by making it a separate class
mossy shale
For what reason
mellow bay
Like i would like if somehow there were craftable rogue variants of throwing weapons or you could convert chest throwing weapons to rogue
void kelp
at this point you’re missing the whole point of not adding any more compatibility
wooden wedge
they wanted it to be different to throwing because it's not throwing smh
mossy shale
It used to be throwing, though
wooden wedge
void kelp
ok and DoG used to be a recolored destroyer. things change.
wooden wedge
and Scal used to look like a bigger calamitous eye
void kelp
a recolored twin, yes
mossy shale
I just want to know why rogue became a thing when it was perfectly fine as the throwing class before
void kelp
probably because the devs wanted to make something separate.
wooden wedge
"but why"
mellow bay
Plaguebringuer used to be a green queen bee
cobalt rose
throwing was difficult to code and is going to be removed in 1.4.
thats why the rogue class exists.
mossy shale
Its gonna be kept internally in tmodloader 1.4, plus I'm pretty sure rogue is just throwing code with a different name
void kelp
throwing will remain in modded because modded terraria will keep it, but it’s the calamity devs’ choice to have changed their class anyways because they wanted to differentiate it
wooden wedge
"but why must it be different though"
lost agate
What
mellow bay
I think this argument will lead us to nowhere
wooden wedge
this dude's been asking why rogue just isn't throwing anymore
mellow bay
So can you please stop @mossy shale
lost agate
Because throwing is a half baked badly made concept
void kelp
by fix this I meant. please answer their question about rogue because like. they don’t seem to be listening to anyone that isn’t a dev.
lost agate
You just throw shit and nothing else really goes with it
void kelp
and since you’re a dev, you’ll be able to hammer in the same exact point we’ve been saying, but now with authority <33
runic heath
There are probably internal reasons to have throwing be separate. As well as it might conflict with thorium’s throwing class, but I’m not sure on that
Regardless I doubt it would be changed at this point since that would be a pain in the ass
void kelp
throwing fatigue applies to rogue, as do all other throwing debuffs and buffs
lost agate
At first it was a counter measure to throwing dying, then we realized we could make much more than just "throw shit and thats the entire class"
mossy shale
Is there a reason why throwing stuff effects rogue then
lost agate
And sure it doesnt feel that different but remember what update we are on
Oh thats just tmod stuff
We had to make it like that
mossy shale
Oh alright
mellow bay
FINALLY
lost agate
I think it was in tmod 0.11.4?
mellow bay
ITS OVER
lost agate
Yeah yeah calm down
mossy shale
Overrexagerating huh
void kelp
it took 20 minutes
mossy shale
I mean I still believe rogue and throwing shouldn't be separate but obviously nothing's gonna change
lost agate
Well, youre welcome to disagree, but with how rogue still isnt fully developed yet, well
mossy shale
Like at a concept standpoint it's cool, but at a gameplay standpoint it just doesnt feel right
wooden wedge
what version of calamity are you on?
lost agate
Go tell that to redigit when they abandoned the class when it didnt even have hardmode stuff
mossy shale
The latest, what does that have to do with anything
wooden wedge
because of the new rogue update being pretty fucking fun in gameplay
mellow bay
Keep in mind that rogue has incorporated some melee mechanics instead of just throwing ripoff
steel raptor
Has tmodLoader always been using the same version as the latest version of Terraria?
lost agate
Yup
mellow bay
Rogue also has the stealth mechanic
steel raptor
Does that mean it is not gonna have 1.4 when it comes out within a few months?
mellow bay
Btw we are getting too oftopic
mossy shale
I dont see why stealth cant just be a throwing armor mechanic like how thorium has the techniques
tired haven
(there are chances it won't be TML anymore even, harhar)
mossy shale
But anyways I'm gonna stop arguing
steel raptor
That’s just ripping off thorium
mossy shale
Throwings a vanilla class
steel raptor
It was
mossy shale
It still is
steel raptor
Not going to
mellow bay
Tecnically yes but not for much longer
mossy shale
Internally its gonna be kept for tmodloader 1.4 (third time I've said this)
Because so many mods improve on it
steel raptor
Rogue is only 9 or 10 months old. Give it time to develop and differ from the dead throwing class more and it will be interesting.
lost agate
No i think his point is that he wants throwing back anyway
Which is interesting, cuz imagine how badly made a class has to be so mods need to resort to giving them new core mechanics
mossy shale
I mean if it became a full class they'd have to add a new lunar pillar
mellow bay
Stop arguing @mossy shale or a mod might come here
lost agate
Aw cmon whats that
mossy shale
This is more of a discussion now than an argument
hollow shell
Flat-out tellin them that isn't the best course of action
but I agree that this convo's been going on a while and isn't really going anywhere
It's a convo that'd been had before
steel raptor
End of discussion
There’s always stuff planned about questionable current features that is yet to be announced to the public someday
west prairie
terraria classes are pretty weird in their distinctions anyways, we have magic guns, thrown melee weapons, etc
wooden wedge
@harsh latch that was suggested already
void kelp
@harsh latch scroll up a bit in #suggestions-voting ; what you’re suggesting is already gonna be in next patch
harsh latch
nice, thanks for telling me
hollow shell
btw @candid dove Don't know if you saw this before
(it didn't reach 90 but it shouldn't've been a suggestion in the first place)
candid dove
Ah yea, I did, forgot
candid dove
All done
radiant meadow
👍
hollow shell
Thank you sir
tawny agate
before i suggest this (although i'm sure it's been suggested before), is brimstone not despawning after killing you if your spawn is near enough intentional? because i just cheesed the fuck out of her by setting my spawn in my arena and i died like four times but it was fine because i could just get up with no consequences other than having to reapply buffs
i mean it doesn't seem like it would be an intentional feature but it's literally on the wiki as a strategy so i guess it's pretty widely known
i want to say i've seen someone else comment on other bosses doing this too but i can't remember who
tawny agate
yep that's the one
runic heath
Yharim is already going to become a boss later
also I believe that qualifies as a specific suggestion
shell trellis
oh ok
hallow kraken
Alright, time for a discussion about something I want to suggest: move sand sharknado staff to post cultist, as fishron is meant to be a post golem boss, but tempest staff can be upgraded immediately
queen sail
That just makes it weirder
Like this is literally the only GSS wep that's made with something you aren't able to get beforehand
sand umbra
yeah I've always wondered about that
zenith hazel
that's the whole point of adrenaline though
you're not supposed to get hit, and you get rewarded for it
it does make sense that you get rewarded with extra damage because dodging a boss can be difficult sometimes
zenith hazel
in the case of farming a boss, adrenaline makes it faster to kill a boss
yeah, and you get rewarded for not getting hit
potent veldt
I get that, but it's still really weird that then just means the only difference between 1 bag between 6 bags is a toggle
Because the fight is then no different
Even the midway reward for not getting hit on a mode where you're not supposed to be hit anyway
zenith hazel
because armageddon is mainly used for farming
it's not like you're gonna use it during casual playthroughs when fighting a boss for the first time
potent veldt
I understand that, but it's still really weird, then
If that's the case and it's only meant for farming, why make Armageddon a toggle?
Why not just make it a thing that happens when you no-hit a boss, regardless of toggling?
earnest raptor
Because it's would be hard to count hits.
zenith hazel
it's a high-risk high-reward thing
hollow shell
You gotta commit to the Arma
zenith hazel
scal deosn't have one anymore
acoustic ferry
scal used to have a hit counter 
zenith hazel
yeah, either use it and not get hit at all or don't use it and fight it normally without any worries
potent veldt
Yeah, but again
zenith hazel
making it drop 6 bags when you do nohit just defeats the purpose
potent veldt
It just seems really arbitrary
hollow shell
Also it might be weird if somebody is casually playing and suddenly the boss they're farming drops 6 bags cuz they didn't realize they no-hitted it
Arma makes it very clear what you're doing
acoustic ferry
if you say to the game, "im not gonna get hit at all during this fight" and then go in and no-hit you deserve the adrenaline
acoustic ferry
the bosses are literally the same as they are normally except you cant get hit
potent veldt
I know
That's my point
There's no difference, at all
Besides it being an on/off switch
zenith hazel
and is there an inherent problem with it?
acoustic ferry
and thats why you get adrenaline
swift bison
What mode are you playing in?
hollow shell
I'm assuming Normal
If they want the damage to be lower then I assume they're playing with the lowest they can go
I don't even know if it's worth pinging like "you wearing Auric, you reforged to Warding, you have a good accessory build?" etc
because if he's doing it for 4 months, good lord I hope a bad loadout hasn't been his problem the whole time
ruby cobalt
it's not worth
tired haven
Technically speaking, average build even on deathmode shouldn't get oneshotted (aside from bh1), due to how much auric gives. You need to equip reaper necklace or dimensional soul artifact to be consistently oneshot. Albeit these are still brutal numbers (but that's why there are 1.5 revive effects + draconic elixir and such)
ruby cobalt
that's one thing
the other one is "4 months"
either it's an exaggeration, which is something you leave out the door
hollow shell
I'll do the basics anyways
@unkempt wolf You're playing Normal, wearing Auric Tesla, and all your accessories are reforged to Warding, correct?
And I assume you're not wearing anything that'd be massively amplifying the damage you're taking, like Reaper Tooth Necklace or Dimensional Soul Artifact?
ruby cobalt
or it's a legitimate problem, which happens to be a "you" problem, and not a boss problem
hollow shell
(I don't know enough about accessory builds to identify what would and wouldn't be recommended for SCal, defensively)
ruby cobalt
here's a short rundown of accessory builds: if it's not from post-Yharon shit - it's bad
exceptions: RTN
hollow shell
Wouldn't Rampart and Sponge be recommended if you want to take less damage?
ruby cobalt
rampart is surprisingly bad at the whole "take less damage" thing
sponge would be okay for that purpose
hollow shell
(also, Asgardian Aegis is pre-Yharon)
tired haven
Yeah, rampart is fairly unhelpful unless multiplayer, only sponge helps here
earnest raptor
We removed hitcap, but SCal now oneshots
ruby cobalt
(dashing in SCal is a lmao moment)
hollow shell
Gotta get that +30 defense
acoustic ferry
it works
sometimes
ruby cobalt
it works until you run into an abyssal and then it suddenly stops working, yeah
hollow shell
(you know that's over -100 damage, right)
acoustic ferry
15 damage reduction + dr potions can stack up pretty quickly
earnest raptor
I mean flat damage reduction from defense, Rover.
ruby cobalt
so it's not over -100 damage, it's a flat -15
hollow shell
the phrase "damage reduction" should never be used to refer to defense
acoustic ferry
oh right in that case
ruby cobalt
¯_(ツ)_/¯
zenith hazel
the fight is too hard for newer players
yea it’s not like she’s a superboss or anything like that
earnest raptor
Yea.
zenith hazel
anyway, some info on loadout would be nice since she theoretically can’t oneshot you
acoustic ferry
scal but she spits supreme soul seekers at you? 
tired haven
15% dr from rampart would be fairly good
but
You have about 450hp (or more like 20) at this point so uh
revive trigger noises
hollow shell
Angry sizzle breath
earnest raptor
Just don't get hit.
tired haven
tired haven
You forgot 1 zero 
earnest raptor
You need 20000 tries for no hit SCal?
zenith hazel
honestly, I don’t know how it takes 4 months to learn a boss
tired haven
Well, a dedicated nohitter needed 10000+ and regular player would take a lot more
so
acoustic ferry
not being particularly good, but being very, very determined
or stubborn
zenith hazel
yeah but it shouldn’t be this insane
tired haven
Or playing 2 hours a week
hollow shell
I assume "fighting her for 4 months" means
he did like 3 playthroughs since July and gave up at SCal in every one
hollow shell
I applaud your dedication
hollow shell
Both.
acoustic ferry
stubbormination
hollow shell
(I guess I myself have put like 30 to 40 hours into HK's Godhome alone, and I still haven't beaten that)
(so, on-and-off for a few months tryin to overcome one thing and failing
does make some sense)
golden narwhal
During the random Deathmode spawns, make Crabulon spawn on top of you/next to you rather than in the nearest mushroom biome.
Why: When you have two mushroom biomes close together, Crabulon could spawn in the other biome away from your arena, which has happened to me. The death spawn already relies on the player being in a mushroom biome, so if Crabulon spawns on top of/next to the player, it would be much more convenient than having to run to a different unprepared biome or waiting for Crabulon to come to you whilst sniping you with mushrooms.
haven't posted this yet
hollow shell
That's been suggested before but like almost a year ago.
It's valid, feel free to post. It'll be bluechecked but that'll elevate the other one
golden narwhal
k
thin shale
On my 1100th try against DAD SCal and I’m still stuck on final sepulcher
But about the suggestion of nerfing SCal’s attacks isn’t really the problem though. It’s about the equipment
I’m used to SCal instantly activating my God Slayer cooldown or Silva Invulnerability due to either Glass Cannon Equipment or lower-tier ones.
quartz hare
scal is already weak if u have 15+ potions
radiant meadow
@fierce hedge Fab already has said he doesn't want to have right click to swap melee/rogue variants in the past, regarding boomerangs. I highly doubt it'll apply to corpus avertor now.
wheat cave
You could make it craft into different version with some materials from that tier and the weapon
For example Corpus Avertor (melee)+ some Bars of Life for example = Corpus Avertor (rogue)
fierce hedge
@radiant meadow He did? When? I never heard him say that.
radiant meadow
I think it was in a private channel when Fargo offered to give code for that
fierce hedge
Ah okay. Then iguess i get why i don't know of it.
mellow bay
Crags background huh
Ai leike it
radiant meadow
one that someone also suggested like 3 days ago?
still cliff
Oh
I didnt see anyone suggesting something like that
•-•
Also
I had posted something......
A pet dragon when you beat yharon
And some people told me that my idea was a bit stupid
But now there is also a new dragon pet droped by yharon
terse sundial
Recent Suggestions Approved
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/644201548712378368
Recent Suggestions Completed
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/643828565615312923
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/643931622399279116
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/641890704536371200
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/644707193530220555
Recent Suggestions Rejected
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/644001356461506581
queen delta
it kinda is doe
sand umbra
it really is
mellow bay
Don't do new boss suggestions
acoustic ferry
making the petals the plant shoots actually matter for more than 0.1 seconds significantly changes the fight tho
zenith hazel
no boss suggestions please @ashen warren , read the suggestion don'ts doc in the pins next time before you post
quick ice
the background idea is good for Sunken Sea, i don't know about the crags background though
if there was a different picture for it, that'd be great
void kelp
@eager forge you’re supposed to send suggestions in #suggestions-voting and talk about them here
eager forge
I wasn't aware this was here.
void kelp
but also, as cool as an idea it is, why ?
eager forge
I don't know, I thought it would be a neat thing to make Cnidrions more interesting.
quick ice
honestly I'd rather get an Ocean Cnidrion
if it was a miniboss for the Hardmode Ocean, it'd give some more value to the area than just the Leviathan
void kelp
what about a reasoning like.. “other desert mobs are affected by the corruption/crimson/hallowed and their drops can also be an alternative way to get cursed flames/ichor/crystal shards
eager forge
I mean yeah, that is also a good reason.
quick ice
while a somewhat valid reason, not every enemy is infected by the desert
Antlions, Tomb Crawlers, Basilisks and Sand Tortoises don't have infected variants, so it doesn't justify the Cnidrion getting one
quick ice
it would also warrant an Astral Cnidrion, and it'd be nice to get Astral/Hallow/Corruption/Crimson variants of snow enemies
void kelp
tbh that’s why I made the consistency + drops reason
lost agate
jumpscares on hardmode gotcha
void kelp
hell yeah shucks
worthy fiber
Should be
eager forge
Yeah.
hollow shell
@lime moat Add a reason.
void kelp
imagine instead of being shot water by cnididrions you get pissed on
quick ice
Sulphurous Sea Cnidrion?
void kelp
ok actually the thought of corrupted cnidrions is real neat
bc there’s the changed sand sharks too
lime moat
It would make Cnidrion more interesting, it would stay consistent with other infected desert types plus it looks cool. Keep in mind that this isn't 100% my idea as it's originally my friend Esme's, but we're both talking about it and we think it'd be somewhat cool. Whether or not you'll add it in is all up to you, but we think it'd be pretty awesome.
hollow shell
Aight just like edit in that first sentence to your suggestion
lime moat
Edited, will that do?
hollow shell
Ye
lime moat
Imagine if those corrupt/crimtane/hallowed cnids would also drop Ichor, Cursed Flames, Light Shards and Dark Shards guaranteed, but then again it'd be a miniboss.
ashen warren
everyone saying to buff the brothers phase cuz its too easy :
me who has troubles fight SCal and i play expert : 
lime moat
Plus another source for Transformer! But in that case normal Cnidrions should perhaps become buffed in hardmode.
void kelp
you could add that to the suggestion; “these new cnidirions could be another source of biome-exclusive materials”
quick ice
add Astral Cnidrions to the suggestion
ashen warren
yo Astral Cnidrions would be fye
void kelp
eh, I don’t think astral fits much since i don’t believe desert enemies are also changed by AI
lime moat
Edited again.
worthy fiber
Fusion Feeder & Hadarian
lime moat
No Astral Cnids, one of you said?
void kelp
aaah
quick ice
the new Cnidrions would most likely have a unique AI if they were implemented since they're Pre-Hardmode enemies going to hardmode
worthy fiber
Nah keep the Astral hors
quick ice
I can't imagine them coming in as slightly buffed cnidrions with new drops, they'll probably get slight changes to their AI to add some diversity and challenge to them
mossy shale
The sunken sea being turned into the world evil in hardmode can also justify the giant clam's buff
void kelp
@quartz hare what does that suggestion mean???
queen delta
quick ice
that the Earth needs a buff in his opinion
ruby cobalt
it means free mod points
hollow shell
@quartz hare Kill times are more reliable than raw DPS testing
Just because it gets good DPS while you're whaling on a completely immobile entity doesn't mean it's any sort of good in the Boss Rush
lime moat
Yeah, meteors are quite op.
quick ice
oh, he's saying nerf the weapons meteors in favor of the True-Melee aspect of it my bad
void kelp
I think he’s saying buff the weapon, nerf the meteors
ruby cobalt
look at the numbers
quick ice
yeah I get it now
lost agate
super dummy
ruby cobalt
fucking sugma gods
lost agate
:emotion:
quick ice
what's sugma?
queen delta
We deciphered it
hollow shell
sugma bals
hollow shell
also a shorthand for "suggestion"
quick ice
thank you for lightening the mood Rover
queen delta
ok lets be serious now
quick ice
yes, time to make another suggestion that
void kelp
the suggestion as it stands right now is incredibly vague and has no actual backing
in terms of practical usage
acoustic ferry
it'd be better to test it on plantera tbh
find out why it does 1-2 damage on her and only her
void kelp
wrong server / channel?
hollow shell
I love when people post suggestions and then immediately go offline, not seeing that one or two people pinged them within a minute of them posting it
queen delta
And yeah any numbers tested on a super dummy is pretty much meaningless
quartz hare
who
ruby cobalt
here we go again
void kelp
I’m p sure this guy is a chronic person who did that
hollow shell
Hey Lht, check your pings
void kelp
like.. all the other suggestions in the past
quartz hare
im reading all of this
acoustic ferry
why is that a trend at all?
even if you make a suggestion on a whim wouldn't you want to see the possibility of it getting implemented?
hollow shell
You could be a lot clearer with what your suggestion is actually suggesting
It collectively took us a minute or two to decipher it
queen delta
dont test it on a super dummy
quartz hare
dummy = +-Regular enemy
quartz hare
yus
lost agate
Also no dummies arent like enemies
hollow shell
Super dummies cannot move.
lost agate
Go try clockwork bow on a dummy then on provi
ruby cobalt
they also have non-existent defense
void kelp
your reasoning “lmao this is a true melee weapon” isn’t a good reason
hollow shell
We aren't doubting your numbers, and tbh the super dummy thing doesn't matter much either
because ultimately your suggestion is to nerf the meteors and buff the direct damage, in order to give it more of a True Melee focus, correct?
elder mist
dev weapons atm are not fully balanced
quartz hare
correct
elder mist
they will be in the near future when we get to boss rush touching
hollow shell
"Balacing" isn't the right thing to header your suggestion with.
quartz hare
ok, this will make more sense
hollow shell
You don't need the second set of numbers.
In words, explain the changes that you want to be made
Like that sentence I just said
quartz hare
this wont get accepted
hollow shell
Eh it could
... well in its current state it won't
because it's confusing
but if you change it like we/I suggested, it might
queen delta
And the numbers are based on attacking a super dummy
quartz hare
ok, correct me
queen delta
Which isn't accurate
hollow shell
Remove the word "balancing" from the top because your suggestion isn't inherently about balancing
queen delta
Look at other suggestions and use their format
quartz hare
why isnt accurate?
elder mist
what he means is two things
- dps testing on training dummies lole (this is bad)
- you should literally type out that you want the sword to deal more damage and the meteors to deal less, rather than just provide numbers
void kelp
dummies don’t have any defense, and they’re stationary, meaning that it’s not really a practical application
hollow shell
change "to make sense" (which is subjective and unclear)
to "to give more of a focus on True Melee" (something along those lines, which is clearer)
quartz hare
thanks, Rover
hollow shell
np
I hope the suggestion gets communicated properly now
lost agate
In this case it can be accurate, but not really realistic, it gives a general idea, but in other cases, like i said clockwork bow, it isnt neither accurate nor realistic to test on a super dummy
quartz hare
Earth shoots right onto the dummy
lost agate
Its more of a "watch out for this issue" rather than "dont use super dummies" because you have done a lot of other suggestions based on super dummies
Yes i know lht
Im literally telling you it can work in this scenario
quartz hare
i shoud test on scal/boss rush?
distant gyro
have fun testing it on scal when she goes 100 miles away from you
void kelp
true melee gear would be smth like counter scarf, hide of astrum deus, DoG lore, righ,
hollow shell
fungal symbiote
distant gyro
^
void kelp
hell yes
tired haven
I guess another problem is that Earth is iconic for shitting out billions of meteors 
cosmic void
I would love some new backgrounds for those biomes, AnCap
The artwork is very, very nice. Gives a good sense of both of them, just would need to be reworked to fit Terraria's style
quartz hare
BG? For sunken sea?
random flume
quartz hare
yay
spare sedge
Make it so that the King Slime doesn't spawn rainbow slimes, In a rouge playthrough im doing he spawned one and i got a blessed apple
zealous ridge
Is that why it’s bad for him to spawn rainbow slimes?
cyan lagoon
On rev+ during the rain
zealous ridge
mmm
spare sedge
it could be intended but still
zealous ridge
I think in that case that rainbow slime’s drops should be exclusive to hm
spare sedge
yeah
he could still spawn them for rainbow blocks
but make it so that they dont drop it
terse sundial
@spare sedge That is already the case, rainbow slimes were removed from the King Slime fight in .106
make sure to have your mod up to date
spare sedge
They can still spawn in rev+ while its raining
terse sundial
Was it not removed? I source check it ig
distant gyro
I'm pretty sure King Slime doesn't spawn Rainbow Slimes in 107
spare sedge
i can show you rn
distant gyro
The reason they're still in is because Boss Rush (lol)
cyan lagoon
No, he does
distant gyro
terse sundial
I also checked .107 code, it's in there
spare sedge
its raining in my world and i have a few spare slime crowns
hollow shell
Wait, it is only in the Boss Rush
spare sedge
no?
hollow shell
at least in my source it is
vocal grotto
if ((Main.raining || CalamityWorld.bossRushActive) && Main.rand.NextBool(10))
{
npcType = NPCID.UmbrellaSlime;
if (Main.rand.NextBool(5))
npcType = NPCID.RainbowSlime;
}
or if it's raining
vocal grotto
I'm so evil
hollow shell
What's that image from
terse sundial
byeah that's what I have also, I swear that we removed that
distant gyro
106 changelogs
terse sundial
that's from my changelist iirc
hollow shell
But it's not in Ozza's?
vocal grotto
Maybe it got revoked or something?
hollow shell
Our current source is 107
terse sundial
nope, once again I swear that we removed it for .106, i'll check .106 source also ig
vocal grotto
Yeah, I'm referencing mine right off the github
terse sundial
mine looks like dom's also
hollow shell
Yeah, 106 source looks the same
terse sundial
yep
hollow shell
The update that KS got the Rev rework in does have Rainbow Slime spawning outside of Boss Rush
but it was changed to be BR-only in 106
and remained BR-only in 107
Is this a bug, then? If we are definitely seeing them outside of the Boss Rush in-game?
terse sundial
@spare sedge Are you 100% sure that you are on 1.4.2.107, and not .105?
ruby cobalt
drop a screenshot, just in case
terse sundial
^
hollow shell
Just for extra clarification, you're getting Umbrella Slimes too, right?
Because those are also supposed to be BR-exclusive, for whatever reason
spare sedge
yes
hollow shell
Alright
terse sundial
Should I delete the suggestion seeing as how it's a bug?
hollow shell
We could keep it and mark it as [Fix] if it gets delivered
@ashen warren Nah I don't think we're going to do that, doesn't really seem gamer epic
ashen warren
I tried putting the TMod of Calamity in the mods folder
it didn't fucking work
i use mac
so yea
cyan lagoon
Its already in the mod browser
cyan lagoon
Calamity mod (no music)
hollow shell
(No Calamity* Music)
ashen warren
Calamity Mod Music v1.4.2.1?
hollow shell
That's the music mod, that's what you install in addition to the mod with no music
ashen warren
i cant find it
hollow shell
Try changing your filters at the top of the menu, maybe it thinks you already have it installed
ashen warren
nothing
queen sail
More uses for Blighted Lens.
Reason: They’re only used for one item, and one that’s reusable at that.
hollow shell
(good image)
ashen warren
@hollow shell i dont see it
cyan lagoon
Delete the calamity mod file in the folder and try again
hollow shell
Yeah I guess
ashen warren
i did
hollow shell
Guy on Mac having trouble installing Calamity
hollow shell
download VMware and download Windows 10, run Terraria through that.
Perfectly legal and your performance will be great
lost agate
Any ideas where blighted lenses would fit?
lost agate
actually, firstly, how about omniscience potion
maybe that can excuse the new ability it got to see enemy projectiles
queen sail
That sounds good
lost agate
Hmm, any other you could think of?
queen sail
Well, I wouldn’t see them in weapon recipes per se
Unless lens are used in weapons (besides twins staff)
ashen warren
wait its called "calamity addon v0.3.1" right?
cyan lagoon
No
hollow shell
That's a separate mod
ashen warren
oh
hollow shell
The one you're looking for is
hollow shell
(v1.4.2.107, it's a lil obscured)
ashen warren
s h i t
lost agate
(ngl i feel like they should move those icons to the side of that ? box)
(but thats offtopic)
civic pond
~~offtopic but i agree 
~~
sinful violet
There are plans for blighted lenses and people're already aware of their current state
.
lost agate
oh i forgot about them then
hollow shell
@vocal grotto You add that flag?
Has the bug been fixed?
vocal grotto
Shucks made a change
terse sundial
It was moved, so yes
hollow shell
'moved'?
vocal grotto
Like, they only spawn in Hardmode now
hollow shell
Instead of BR
hollow shell
Ohhh
I
I realized only now
that I was misreading the code the entire time
|| is or
&& is and
terse sundial
They only spawn in Hardmode now to prevent the blessed apple from dropping pre-hm
hollow shell
Good
lost agate
(which means no rainbow slimes in BR if you somehow used terminus in a prehm world)
radiant meadow
okay but like you deserve a blessed apple if you do br that early
lost agate
QB tho
lost agate
imagine wasting such important ammo on pre hm
subtle oracle
Its important???
I know bosses drop it only once but...
It never felt effective enough for me lol
lost agate
becuase youre using it on pre hm
hollow shell
Damage becomes a lot more valuable the later you go through the game
subtle oracle
Soooo, should i delete my suggestion?
hollow shell
If you want
subtle oracle
Well i wont.... I want the magnum do be given some love you know..
hollow shell
I mean, it is still somewhat valid
yeah
Magnum is currently bad in Pre-Hardmode when it is obtained
subtle oracle
It never felt as powerful as the handcannon from re4 lol
hollow shell
Just remove "and all of its upgrades" from your wording
I dunno why you included that anyway considering you're only in PreHM
subtle oracle
yeah sorry...
Only in preHM, ive gotten to HM i just dont have the magnum upgraded
tawny agate
sulphurous bubbles (the things that come up from the seafloor in suplphurous sea) shouuld inflict sulphuric poisoning instead of venom? just for consistency's sake
likewise, aquatic urchins, etc.
hollow shell
Well, you'd already be inflicted with it from the waters
I'm not sure if entering the water while you have the debuff would actually turn it from something with duration into something timeless, so you could actually dip real quick and get rid of it
It might be like that.
tawny agate
ahh i didn't think about that, that's probably right
just a little consistency thing that i noticed but that makes sense
hollow shell
I'd need a programmer to fact check me on that
@radiant meadow Fact check me on that
hollow shell
Damn
tawny agate
i tried giving myself it with hero's mod buff menu just out of curiosity but it isn't there because hero's doesn't have all buffs for one reason or another
radiant meadow
that's because hero's can't give debuffs
I doubt a quick dip in the water would get rid of it though.
because iirc, dipping in chilly water (w/ config off) doesn't turn 1 minute of chilled to 5 seconds
hollow shell
m
Higher duration could take priority
hollow shell
I highly doubt that. Are you sure?
karmic stone
Just adding a "Proficiency until next level" would be nice, yhea
hollow shell
A visual experience bar that appears on the screen when you have a Level Meter equipped would be a very nice detail
hollow shell
Ye, we've already got the code for it
Or similar code at least
civic pond
byeah
and the meter changes depending on what weapon/meter you're holding or something
h
queen delta
What if using any of the level meter like you would for rev/death, etc item would have a bar pop up somewhere on the screen showing that respective class xp
hollow shell
Ah shit, yeah
You'd have to account for people wearing multiple meters at once
You would in fact need some visual indicator of class
civic pond
hollow shell
... We could just stick symbol on the WoF class emblems next to em
queen delta
If you use all 5 meters, all 5 bars pop up
hollow shell
smh Vetus what's wrong with that?
karmic stone
Same actually, I remember alot of people agreeing with the same thing about SG's mines
terse sundial
Variants of this suggestion have been sent before
hollow shell
But has it itself been suggested?
terse sundial
I'll check again
hollow shell
I can't seem to find it
terse sundial
neither can I, i'll remove 
karmic stone
Everytime I've heard something like this it was "...The projectiles of [X] boss" rather than an universal thing iirc
terse sundial
yeah
hollow shell
yeah, Moon Lord for instance
karmic stone
SG and Deus
hollow shell
ML's got it worse than other bosses because he's not dead until his animation ends
hollow shell
mhm
raven shoal
ML's projectiles actually do dissapear though
radiant meadow
so basically add mines to every boss
karmic stone
No, but on like death animation
You already won the fight but there was a chance it would still kill you
radiant meadow
the death animation clears all projectiles with calamity I think
teal ibex
sorta? he just doesn't shoot after death anymore
i don't think he clears stuff, just doesn't shoot from his hands while dying
i might be wrong though
karmic stone
Ye, I killed ML some days ago and i'm 100% sure there weren't projs on death anim anymore, I specifically remembered that while looking at him
heady comet
same
hollow shell
Hey Apple wb
heady comet
you too
hollow saffron
@ashen warren ah yes a fellow minecrafter
ashen warren
It's not even that. All rpgs show you how far you are from a level up.
So it would just be a good idea.
hollow saffron
lol
@stray portal add a reason
also i would suggest making your suggestion less about yourself and more general(just from experience)
terse sundial
What is this suggestion even asking for?
radiant meadow
summoner class expansion
terse sundial
More Summoner Items that are a pain in the ass?
hollow saffron
ah yes
radiant meadow
tldr add accessories instead of weapons
hollow saffron
enslaved RLCraft summons
terse sundial
ah
hollow saffron
lol ben
radiant meadow
and said accessories empower minions, not summon minions
terse sundial
also like, sentries though
radiant meadow
hollow saffron
sentries is a good idea actually yes
radiant meadow
ooa meme time?
radiant meadow
stray portal
I think summoner accessories would be pretty great
stray portal
A lot of those are very late game
hollow saffron
statis' blessing is post plantera, about mid game
stray portal
Also more pre hardmode summoning armor would be very useful coming from a person who always mains as a summoner
hollow saffron
spirit glyph
stray portal
I do like the spirit glyph
hollow saffron
huh i wonder what the wulfrim, aerialite, statigel, and victide sets all have
imean really summoners could do with more accessories but your suggestion doesnt really say that
stray portal
I rarely use those because they don't help summons that much
stray portal
Ok I will edit it
hollow saffron
I would suggest you post it here too before you finalize it
Just because feedback
proven tide
the rogue update alone added 27 new rogue weapons to calamity not sure if the hm ore ones already existed but iirc they did
calamity has 29 summon weapons total
hollow saffron
i think theyre asking for more summon accessories
proven tide
i think summon needs a huge overhaul anyway
hollow saffron
implement summoning focus from RLcraft instead of using mana
queen delta
Summoners are a pain to code
hollow saffron
oof
cobalt rose
it would be cool to have summoner be like, a strategy-heavy class
hollow saffron
isnt it because it requires an entirely new AI as well
honestly strategy isnt as much of a thing in calamity, or even really in terraria as much
lost agate
Do i need to explain summons again?
hollow saffron
you just swing your weapon and the homing projectiles do the rest
lost agate
Cuz oh boy i have a lot to say about those
hollow saffron
just, send the copypasta already
lost agate
Well i dont have it lmao
hollow saffron
sad