why is that always an issue 
#suggestions-discussion
civic pond
frail mantle
iirc he jumps higher the higher above him you are
lyric harness
loud steeple
@lyric harness they made it so it doesn't get cheesed on rev+
hallow kraken
When will people read the pins
civic pond
no
mighty mica
Removed the suggestion since it ain't valid anymore.
half basalt
Why is chaining suggestions bad
civic pond
Because you can just as easily get the original person to edit their suggestion
it saves space
terse sundial
Chaining suggestions is bad when we send suggestions to the dev server, and if a chained suggestion gets sent but not the original, we are stuck with finding what the original suggestion wanted, as well as what the chained suggestion wants differently
it's also pretty annoying to see
civic pond
oh god oh fuck
zenith hazel
no
trim sedge
oh
zenith hazel
@trim sedge read the suggestion don'ts doc before you post a suggestion next time please
terse sundial
no
elder mist
smh merk at least take a screenshot before deleting,...,.
elder mist
not the same 
terse sundial
add 
there
elder mist
can't react with the_face
zenith hazel
not again
queen delta
This was the problem I had 2 weeks ago
There’s absolutely nothing teling you to read donts doc
We should at the very least add something to the description in the suggestions channel
sand umbra
I agree with Yata
like
there's nothing telling you pins are important. the don'ts doc, even discounting the first thing, is buried under the general rules pin
buoyant dome
why do- nevermind.
I already said stuff like that a million times
I was saying that maybe, just maybe, that Crystalline's branch could be expanded
queen delta
Its already one of the biggest branches not in terms of amount of ingredients tho
buoyant dome
Yes, but it just ends at Shattered Sun and only goes into Celestus
final karma
I fail to see the problem with that
sand umbra
might have to the fact that Crystalline and its upgrades are nothing like Celestus and aren't even the same weapon type, only sharing a general class
just a thought
sand umbra
...not really? 
buoyant dome
Sure, Exo branch also has a Rogue weapon, but since the crystalline branch only stops at profaned maybe it should go to a cosmilite crystalline and THEN it could go into celestus
just a thought as well
final karma
I guess
queen delta
final karma
As for the "weapons crafting into weapons that have nothing to do with them thing"
Maybe it's just ranged weapons
buoyant dome
imo the only thing that crystalline and celestus have similar to eachother is splitting
even then crystalline splits in a different way than celestus
final karma
But things like the Magna Striker and Clock Gatlignum only share a similar name with some of their ingredients
swift bison
polterghast's palette is mean't to resemble ectoplasm and steel, not dungeon brick
sand umbra
dungeon plantera
buoyant dome
^
swift bison
isn't that polterghast?
queen delta
Just reread the suggestion but replace dungeon plantera with polterghast
terse sundial
^
queen delta
@trim sedge can you elaborate
sand umbra
I mean, I can see how these
zenith hazel
you mean the bricks on its sprite?
trim sedge
ya
sand umbra
would be mistaken for blue Dungeon bricks
final karma
Ah
final karma
I don't think that's bricks
ashen warren
I think polterghast look good as it is
zenith hazel
@ashen warren it's supposed to work like that in the lower layers, almost everything is dark
runic heath
Use luminous amulet and suspicious looking tentacle
zenith hazel
you're supposed to bring some light equipment with you if you're traveling down to the lower layers
sand umbra
oh I'm well aware they're not bricks, I was stating that I understand how it's possible to mistake them for bricks
h
runic heath
I think that will set you to the right light level
pure quail
calamity should have more rouge things
runic heath
The wiki has a more detailed thing
zenith hazel
the dark and scary atmosphere fits with the abyss, especially since big ass minibosses spawn down there, giving it more of a scary vibe
runic heath
The rogue update is coming soon ™
ashen warren
I know but maybe even a cheat item? I just think there should be something to give even a litlle more light i the void
buoyant dome
@pure quail that's gonna happen, it's called the rogue update
zenith hazel
rogue expansion is coming
pure quail
@runic heath shiiiiiit
zenith hazel
use cheat sheet then
runic heath
There are several items that give you more light
buoyant dome
rogue is epic tbh
final karma
If you want a cheat item, just use an item from another mod
zenith hazel
you can't just have an item that makes the entire lower layer super bright, that'd defeat the purpose of the lower layers
runic heath
Suspicious looking tentacle and lumenous amulet both work really well
queen delta
Cheat sheet doesnt work actually
runic heath
Note that these stack
buoyant dome
iirc polterghast emits it's own light
zenith hazel
oh well
ashen warren
@zenith hazel but that's the point nothing work in the void
final karma
The reason infinite light didn't work for you was because of the way abyss lighting works
runic heath
If you go on the wiki page for the abyss
queen delta
Unless you have enough light iirc
runic heath
There is a list
zenith hazel
some things do work in the void, like abyssal diving suit, ML's light pet, etc.
queen delta
Abyssal diving suit and suspicious tentacle was enough for me
sand umbra
suspicious looking tentacle is like god
civic pond
btw brav please dont mind the ping in the server im about to do
zenith hazel
the point is, by the point you're at in the game that you should be in layer 4, you should have more than enough to help you see things in there
nvm
pure quail
ashen warren
Okay i didn't thought that something work there if an infinite light + light hack + other accesories and pets didn't
But thanks
runic heath
If you use shine potion, abyss diving suit, and suspicious tentacle/wisp/strange orb you’ll have +7 light which means light level should be normal
pure quail
ashen warren
Okay when i will get back home i will try it for sure
queen delta
Maybe buff the other mechanical bosses then? 
ashen warren
I think that a lot of bosses are actually too easy but maybe it's just me getting too much buffs or something
queen delta
civic pond
ashen warren
Including mechanical bosses*
terse sundial
^
neat pewter
yeah
civic pond
ok then
queen delta
Ah accidental send?
neat pewter
sorry i forgot that i have to do shift+enter
terse sundial
accidently pressed enter too early
final karma
I honestly don't think Skelly prime is that hard
civic pond
👍
queen delta
civic pond
no worries just edit it
neat pewter
heck it didn't save my draft
terse sundial
it's fine, go ahead
buoyant dome
ok so like
terse sundial
can you not
buoyant dome
can skeletron's teleport telegraph also have a line that shows what direction it's teleporting to?
or is that unnecessary
terse sundial
I can assure you as the one who tested that, all telegraphs coming next update are easy to spot
buoyant dome
nice
civic pond
thats good to hear
buoyant dome
tbh I like rev EoC but I like the idea of shooting blood out of the mouth during the 2nd phase like a shotgun
like how perfs do stuff like that
ashen warren
I know that wouldn't be implemented but if mechanical bosses were build for example for gathering resources and stuff like that then mechanical BoC and mechanical Quenn Bee would make sense as a storage system (quenn bee) and database maybe even controling other mechanicals? (BoC)
In calamity lore we can read they are built for this from these things that placed in inventory do something and they have a lore of the boss
proven tide
that's big brain
wary flume
lol nice
I have great RNG when it comes to big boi yharon ngl I never get what I want fbm
distant gyro
ye it does
fsr dust doesn't disappear in lower qualities
so at low quality it doesn't really solve the issue of lag
warm tinsel
Yes, I too want Yharim to give Dark Sun
granite owl
why tho
ashen warren
yea it would be cool a problem would be finding old tmodloader version though
nostalgia
granite owl
only if to fight future bosses
ashen warren
did you ever play back in 2017?
granite owl
not really but it seems not as fun as now
ashen warren
its alot different from now and id would like to fight the bosses back the way they were just for nostalgia
or mabye fight astrageldon slime again
karmic stone
Afaik a literal option like "Use [X] version" in-game isnt possible because of Tmod ver memes
Just ask someone for the files, i've seen plenty of people storing old versions of the mod
distant gyro
TModLoader forum page has the release date of each tmod version
so you can line the release date of [x] version of calam with [x] version of tmod by release dates
terse sundial
@random flume specific item suggestions aren't allowed currently
terse sundial
either edit it to be more simple/less specific or delete it
random flume
hmm ok
bitter topaz
iirc that was supposed to only apply to weapons, accessories and the like
random flume
thats what i assumed
bitter topaz
because the motive was the constant flood of low effort swords, shields, guns etc.
and not something that's moreso an extention of something that already exists
terse sundial
void kelp
"add fancy sword that shoots meme !!"
bitter topaz
^
novel pebble
Stops times cuz Za Warudo
bitter topaz
literally just "sword does damage and shits out homing projectile"
void kelp
any specific item suggestion
radiant pawn
k
radiant pawn
i remember those type of suggestions being everywhere
bitter topaz
low effort swords and the like were what led to us banning specific items as a whole
and yes they were everywhere
radiant pawn
mostly the opinions on those suggestions were negative
void kelp
because the suggestions were terrible and added nothing
"Add this special sword because it'll be cool1!1"
"Add this accessory/pet because it references something popular!"
teal ibex
add eidolon wyrm summon
void kelp
add pet eidolon wyrm because hec had a popular video on it is something I remember seeing at least once a month or whatever
radiant pawn
eidolon pet
keybrand upgrades
"add the lorde back with his song and drop something coOl!!!
opal barn
alright y'all can stop now
radiant pawn
sorry
terse rampart
honestly idk why people want nerf's it's like they dont like a good challenge
runic heath
Sometimes things are genuinely unbalanced and it’s fair to express grievances
terse rampart
i mean ye
but rn i think everything is pretty good
besides slime god
i hate it
it's boring
so just run around lol
so just make huge arena
radiant pawn
only thing im truly negative about this update is the exploding fireballs from Golem
those stay for so long, take a lot of space, and do a lot of damage with a debuff not fun
terse rampart
hmm i haven't gotten so far
into the update
oh nvm
i have yeah
it's fine honestly
if they fire less often
cause you get 3 out at a time
and it's immposible to deal with
radiant pawn
a nerf i want golem to have is a slower fire rate and less explosion duration
terse sundial
@zinc skiff no
zinc skiff
Ok
terse sundial
no meme suggestions and no boss suggestions
void kelp
@stone sable they’re not present in the rematch
but also that’s not very strong nor convincing reasoning
stone sable
but they add nothign to the fight regardless
they serve no purpose other then filler
to an already long fight, it is horrible
dusty stirrup
Then add this to your suggestion instead
That's already sightly better than just saying "it sucks"
dusty stirrup
Aye
fierce hedge
Seems fine to me. Fighting his minions again before starting the true battle
Going from P1 to P2 looks so straight foward
radiant pivot
fierce hedge
@teal ibex the only 2 problems are propably Reaper sharks and Earth Elementals
Bc Armored Diggers like, Fuck you
teal ibex
i'd also argue mothrons are a pretty big sore spot
teal ibex
and if i could actually summon cloud elementals instead of having 1000 appear at once that'd be nice
teal ibex
none of them are particularly bad, it's just that in general they're all watered down by zerg
placid girder
mothrons despawning is fucked
teal ibex
zerg does a terrible job with minibosses in particular
placid girder
im assuming its gonna be fixed though
teal ibex
they spawn, but it also distracts from the fight like crazy
teal ibex
and since the precedent exists with sandstorm's core, i don't think complacency is really that necessary
sand umbra
Cloud Elemental, but every time you hit her, five Wyverns spawn
teal ibex
don't forget the thousand harpies
fierce hedge
I always need to farm for Arid Artefact
But Earth Elementals are a huge fucking pain
Even with Zerg
void kelp
tbh if there were an item that boosted mini boss spawns that’d be neat
teal ibex
yeah, earth elementals are all about positioning and zerg fries your ability to adequately position yourself
because everywhere that you can be is already occupied
fierce hedge
Have an item that only boosts normal enemy spawn rates, And one that only boosts Mininoss Spawn Rates
How about that @teal ibex
teal ibex
specific item suggestion
banned
but that's generally what i meant by "or some other special methods."
runic heath
How are reaper sharks a pain?
teal ibex
i'll slightly edit the suggestion to be more clear about it though
queen delta
There could just be one item that summons a mini boss based on where you are
runic heath
Minibosses spawn relatively frequently in the abyss
sand umbra
Reaper Sharks are a pain because fucking Gulper Eels and other things exist
runic heath
I guess?
queen delta
If you’re in undergrounds/caverns, using the item would spawn earth elementals pre-golem, and have a 50% chance to spawn earth elementals or armored diggers
teal ibex
the abyss is the optimal setting for miniboss fighting
queen delta
50% chance to spawn a wyvern or cloud elemental if in space
teal ibex
it's largely untainted besides having to fight 2 at once fairly often
queen delta
Etc
runic heath
I wish armored diggers spawned less
teal ibex
it's most of the others that i'm concerned with
void kelp
I like that idea yata
sand umbra
the bottom of the Abyss actually lends itself really well to miniboss-fighting
teal ibex
i also like that idea but idk where you'd put it in progression
sand umbra
given the shit you're assumed to have at that tier
queen delta
I’d probably put it somewhere post-mechs at least
runic heath
Yeah the space is wide open and good for fighting
sand umbra
it's just that things like Gulper Eels are 
queen delta
And have it be consumable
teal ibex
yeah i'm generally a fan of how the abyss handles miniboss fights because you actually fight the miniboss, but them doubling up is a little bothersome and the reaper is wicked farm mode
but again, this is the least of the critique, non-abyss minibosses are where things slip
radiant meadow
boss health bar with the exception of abyss minibosses
which lack a health bar for stealth reasons
that's the most definitive thing that sets them apart afaik
swift bison
Idea: Abyss minibosses gain healthbars after taking a hit because by that point you know they are there
foggy grove
Idea to add onto above: Significantly lower spawn rates in 4th layer of abyss, but buff the stats
The song of the bottom of the abyss (void) and the lore behind the area (silva?) both seem to incite a feeling of loneliness and solitude, yet ingame the area is more like a miniboss rush-fest as I can't be in there for more than 5 seconds without an Eidolon Wyrm spawning on me. Even when actually going down there to fight, I can't kill one mini boss without 2 more spawning in the fight.
It just seems like the atmosphere and lore don't really fit the gameplay imo, but either reducing spawns and/or only allowing 1 miniboss to exist at a time will help alleviate the divide
(I know this suggestion was posted before, but that was 9 months ago and it didn't seem to have any discussion about it...)
karmic stone
Just remove the "Idea to add onto above" part and give it a go
foggy grove
Aight
placid girder
idk if this is coming in the next patch but if it isnt can there be some sort of tooltip talking about the fact that some items that increase jump speed have their boost reduced when you have an autojump accessory
loud steeple
@placid girder i think that's just terraria being terraria
random flume
redid my suggestion but no item this time 
proven tide
zenith hazel
@cloud surge report that in #bugs-read-pins
cloud surge
Ok
ashen warren
just
good point
proven tide
yeah
ashen warren
Nothing much to say tbh.
proven tide
It's a Soul item, sooo
hoary hinge
I was kinda shocked when I realised they didnt lol
wary flume
It may be a soul but it is a Fragment so maybe other than just having the same properties as a soul give it something else unique
Something like having it pulsing with energy as just a slight effect would be different to your usual floaty boi soul
not a spinning disk of power
hoary hinge
well i mean other soul items like essences and cores of sunlight chaos and eleum, the pillar fragments, galacta singularities, unholy essence, twisting nethers, dark plasma, nightmare fuel, endothermic energy, darksun fragments and calamitous essence all float - the ones that don't float seem to have more "physicality" to them such as armored shells and divine geodes so it makes sense those wouldn't float
but yharon soul fragments and ruinous souls don't float either which seems strange to me
ashen warren
I also think it should float
warm dock
eh
ashen warren
@warm dock I don't think lasers fit into plaguebringer.
proven tide
@warm dock Okay, so, is the reason you're going for that of consistency? As it reads now it comes across as requesting content be repeated across multiple instances where it might have room, despite not inherently fitting into the fight itself.
zenith hazel
pbg already has a nuke, what more could you want?
night cradle
Still not much of a reason
night cradle
^
zenith hazel
yeah that doesn’t make much sense
proven tide
wof lasers, purple; destroyer has green and blue; golem, yellow; devourer of gods, blue; moon lord, green; providence, orange;
i could go on
warm dock
-what do you mean green-
placid moth
Homing.
proven tide
the destroyer has green homing lasers and blue freezing ones
zenith hazel
just because its eyes are red doesn’t mean it needs to have lasers
night cradle
PBG fight is just something where lasers wouldn't fit much
Besides as a fight PBG is fine and doesnt need more attacks imo
proven tide
as well as the red ones from the probes
warm dock
doesn't calamitas has lasers
proven tide
As it is now the PBG fight is balanced enough and its mechanics are all balanced around the theme
Not because she's red.
warm dock
i am not aying it becaue she is red
proven tide
... then what's your point, considering that's what you predicated the argument off of earlier?
If all red-themed enemies had lasers, the Solar Pillar enemies — the ones designed to be melee and melee only with no ranged attacks — would also have lasers.
proven tide
So saying the PBG's eyes being red are an indicator that it needs lasers is...
sand umbra
aw hell no
I understand it's for consistency with the Mechs given the Plaguebringer Goliath is also something of a mechanical boss but like
warm dock
what
proven tide
Well, to be honest, the existing nukes aren't too different from Golem's lasers
sand umbra
no
proven tide
You could reskin them into lasers and it would make no difference
lasers have no unique inherent effect, they're just flavour
sand umbra
PBG has a lot going on in her fight as is
proven tide
and in this case it just doesn't fit
sand umbra
okay but real talk why does Golem have lasers in the first place
warm dock
ok im done
proven tide
this might seem like an arbitrary distinction, but the pbg is a cyborg, not a mecha
sand umbra
sand umbra
you make a convincing argument
proven tide
as always
warm dock
kick me then
sand umbra
ember marsh
omg its veti
zenith hazel
there’s no reason to kick you but ok
proven tide
unfuel of fire
quiet abyss
@warm dock First, please format your suggestion properly.
The random caps is awkward to read.
Second, "if the mechs could have lasers then so can PBG" is not a very valid reason. Plus it wouldn't fit.
ashen warren
wh
quick ice
On the topic of the PBG, why are it’s eyes red?
quick ice
PBG has nukes how is that steampunk
Wot
lost agate
Not everything thats a robot has to have lasers, simple as that
It would be pretty damn repetitive
Not to mention theres nothing in pbg`s design that says "lasers go here"
hollow saffron
^
besides all of the mechanical bosses already have lasers in their fights
we dont need more lasers
this doesnt even include clonelamitas, moonlord, golem
provi
weaver
AD
AA
zenith hazel
do try to tone down on the fragmenting please
proven tide
I think we've covered it enough
they left the server >_>
(or, perhaps, were kicked, in accordance to their request earlier)
zenith hazel
sigh
void kelp
he probably left
iirc he’s around 13-14 or smth so the criticism probably was taken personally
proven tide
oh wow that was actually the same dude from a couple of months back
treated everyone like trash, told them they didn't care what anyone thought, then threatened to leave
not sure if they actually did or not, but if they did last time, they came back
placid moth
The patreon guy ?
proven tide
might do it this time /s
quick ice
Nobody cares if he leaves
If he’s gonna be toxic or take criticism personally he should get harder skin or get out
zenith hazel
anywho get back on topic, no need to stir up drama
quick ice
Of course
queen delta
Wait isnt this already the case?
brittle merlin
isn’t that what it already does?
queen delta
Right clicking does the alt attack
terse sundial
right click is an alternative attack
terse sundial
@still cliff That is already the case
still cliff
karmic stone
You
You deleted it
lost agate
Theres several ways to fix things 
radiant pawn
huh
lost agate
I swear they do now
radiant pawn
i recall having seen one dropping a stinger, maybe because i killed a small one in the same place where i killed a moss hornet idk
civic pond
could probably kill a few and find out
foggy grove
The vanilla wiki says they do not, so unless Calamity changes that, the problem still exists
radiant pawn
do moss hornets drop stingers
is this actually a very asked question in vanilla
i never knew that
civic pond
🤔
tired haven
hearty plaza
on the topic of vanilla oddities, why don't the fragment wings require souls of flight?
fervent zealot
because muh endgame
distant gyro
radiant pawn
because bruh alien wings
ashen warren
Moss Hornets used to not drop stingers
In other words, no more stingers once in Hardmode
tired haven
They still do not tho?
queen delta
Even masomode makes them drop stingers now
hot dagger
Idk maybe respite the harvest staff. It’s a nitpick but I use in every play through basically and it doesn’t look right.
gusty geode
Normal hornets do still spawn in Hardmode iirc
night cradle
Yeah, but their spawnrate is taken up by other Hardmode enemies
karmic stone
"It would be cool" is not a good reason 90% of the time
Also does this count as specific item sugg?
hexed ore
teal ibex
it's not, no
karmic stone
You can get over 2 plat from killing EoC though
And it's way less time-consuming and more fun
terse sundial
Sea Prism's have a set sell value based on their rarity like all Calamity items with the exceptions of sulphurous sand
foggy kindle
And you can mass murdering DS for even more than that
terse sundial
You can sell make a farm for $ of sea prisms, and they grow fast
it's much less work than killing a boss, plus it has the potential of yielding more cash
I support dropping their value a bit for sure
ashen warren
basically 0 danger involved
terse sundial
^
buoyant dome
imagine trying to think of a rogue weapon but the concept is a sword 
buoyant dome
yeah I guess
I had an idea for it
but I'll move to a different channel if I have to
buoyant dome
it's like crystalline but like
sword and it gets smaller the more it splits
nvm I can just put that in my own mod
woeful ginkgo
I'm wondering if god slayer,silva and auric armor needs a small nerf to their revive abilities, they are that good and they make the fight on rev+ with yharon and scal not so difficult with the right weapons and accessories.
hollow saffron
honestly tho i think god slayer is good atm and needs no nerfs
for the trouble you go through, having to kill dog multiple times to get all the required cosmilite
tbh i think nothing needs nerfs
hollow saffron
like yharon p1 is already a mild bruh moment
civic pond
silva comes with downsides too
night cradle
Yea
civic pond
so i think thats fine
night cradle
It lowers your max HP anyway
night cradle
if you get hit during the revive
hollow saffron
and auric is good against scal
imagine doing scal with silva armor
and yess speedrunners, i know
ashen warren
@tiny agate you need to add a why? to your suggestion
tiny agate
I added a reason now
frosty kindle
"I killed the Leviathan Pre-HM and all I got was this shoddy IOU"
sand umbra
that you can't even use until well after the point Siren and Levi start dropping shit proper
queen sail
Levi iou is a leftover from when the mod didn’t adjust vanilla
Tbh due to the mod’s focus on nonlinearity i’m not sure why it isn’t removed yet
rugged mist
ashen warren
@white pebble
Statues of what? Why do you want them?
Elaborate
Or a mod's gonna come in and slam you
mfw he's offline
jovial spire
A two word suggestion aint gonna get in
white pebble
I'm not offline, I'm just staying like this
jovial spire
And why you want them in, and how it ould benifit the mod.
teal ibex
i mean, they're statues, it's not particularly ambiguous what they do and why they could be added
rugged mist
i can't really think of any situation where they'd be better than just zerging though
teal ibex
because zerg is a broken and overpowered potion
i don't disagree, i just hate that zerg chokes the life out of so many other design choices
ashen warren
move zerg to post ml lol
rugged mist
good luck getting anybody to star a suggestion that controversial
teal ibex
just make a battle potion upgrade line that gets stronger throughout the game
ashen warren
I'm never gonna suggest something like that
teal ibex
instead of going from 1.5 or whatever to 30
teal ibex
just recolor zerg ez
radiant meadow
and something could be done with calming pot line
although chaos/tranq candles would need to be toned down
teal ibex
i'm debating suggesting it even though it's almost an entirely pointless endeavor
sand umbra
zen and zerg are in a weird spot with me
because on one hand they're really nice to have
but on the other hand you can get them as early as post-Skeletron and they make every other spawnrate-increasing option obsolete
until you get Chaos/Tranquility Candles, which do the same thing except they're not consumable
civic pond
Honestly they feel more like QoL things if anything else
sand umbra
civic pond
radiant meadow
that's why you would nerf chaos/tranq candles too
if you were to spread out zerg
or push them farther in progression
teal ibex
it's not just "they make every spawn increasing potion obsolete"
they make TONS of things obsolete
radiant meadow
people like using zerg as an argument
teal ibex
how many times have you seen a suggestion that looks somewhat nifty just get a "use zerg. next suggestion"
radiant meadow
and ngl, I find Zen way too fuckin' quiet sometimes
teal ibex
it's painful 
radiant meadow
but I don't want to be swarmed by enemies
sand umbra
zerg is too OP and zen gets way too quiet
sand umbra
this is why my Atlas suggestion would've died before ever getting sent had I not accounted for the very existence of Zerg Potions
civic pond
here's the other thing.
I want atlases to spawn more often
without the extra bullshit of every other enemy
sand umbra
honestly
use a Zerg? with pre-ML gear against post-Aureus Infection enemies that can easily overwhelm you in numbers?
yeah okbuddy
I think I'd rather just go nuke the pillars and ML
teal ibex
whatever i'm suggesting it nobody can stop me 👀
sand umbra
🥗
teal ibex
when you're right, you're right
radiant meadow
honestly, the only times I find Zen acceptable is when building because fuck random mobs and during boss fights
and we have auto zen now
teal ibex
honestly zerg and zen both have solid use cases but they're so inflammatory that they cover up billions of other use cases for other ideas
hence why i'd rather them get pushed back than removed
i mean, even 50% reduced spawnrates would be enough for most situations in my eyes, so a potion of that caliber would fit fine for like post-mechs tier or smth
lost agate
50% still leaves place for enemies to annoy me when building to no end
teal ibex
tru, but why are you playing terraria if not to religiously annoy yourself? 
lost agate
Well because i hate the stuff that is annoying, see pre boss
radiant meadow
well, it's hard to differentiate building and exploring
teal ibex
i've basically never built anything so idk how bad it gets but i know that i'd cheat in zen anyway if i did
radiant meadow
like in code that is
and I know it's really boring to go exploring and mining with zen on.
Enemies help provide stimulation and a sense of danger.
lost agate
its almost as annoying to be in pre boss than have to build smth and have to stop every second cuz smth is coming to kill me, or i missplace a platform because of that
And well since the first arena i do after post skelly is the huge ass arena for SG well....
radiant meadow
well, zen isn't even pre boss anymore. but ye, I understand especially for a wof bridge
but I still think a more spaced out line is better
teal ibex
Add a preboss upgrade to the builder potion with infinite placement speed and reach.
lost agate
Well that contradicts the whole point of your other suggestion dont it
teal ibex
honestly just zerg the builder potions
radiant meadow
well, the zerg argument is used to invalidate stuff like make X more common of an enemy/drop
teal ibex
but yeah, i've never built before and i'm sure doing it with full legitimacy would be a bit rough
radiant meadow
builder potion 3.0 isn't really going to stop that 
teal ibex
but with NPCs and a reasonably scaled calm potion it shouldn't be too bad right?
sand umbra
with NPCs alone it should be fine, tbf
radiant meadow
calm potions actually boost spawn rates
teal ibex
radiant meadow
soon coming to a calamity update near you
sand umbra
teal ibex
spawnrate underflow
radiant meadow
zen is the new zerg
quick ice
Statues of Calamity Enemies would be pretty cool, but it wouldn't work for a lot of them since Calamity has next to no Humanoid enemies
sand umbra
counterpoint
only some of the statues in vanilla are of inherently humanoid enemies to begin with
quick ice
True
However making non humanoids requires a larger statue or for the sprinter to shrink the enemy
quick ice
Very few of those in the mod, and no point making the slimes statues since their drops would undoubtedly be removed
sand umbra
you want Calamity examples? here's a few:
Cosmic Elementals. Sea Urchins. Gnashers.
Sunskaters. Shockstorm Shuttles.
frosty kindle
and the almighty mantis shrimp
quick ice
Gnashers and Shockstorm are wider than 32 pixels (16 double pixels)
But I see your point, it can be done for a fair amount of enemies
lost agate
dont fuck mantis shrimps smh
sand umbra
but yeah, like
there are quite a few enemies small enough to be feasibly made into statues with relatively little effort
quick ice
I kinda want to try one of those right now
radiant meadow
cosmic elemental statue probably won't fly very well
since they drop so much good loot
but shockstorm shuttle might be nice for essence of sunlight farming
sand umbra
I was mainly just giving examples, tbf
shockstorm shuttle and sunskater statues would be good for sunlight
radiant meadow
and size is not a huge matter
sand umbra
mmmmmaybe some Crags enemies for Chaos?
radiant meadow
given shark and unicorn statues exist
sand umbra
honestly it'd just be a really neat addition and has some practical purposes too
Cosmic Ele statue, if it were to happen, could be craftable around the start of Hardmode or so
or late pre-Hardmode
again, just some ideas /shrug
arctic notch
Make the BOHLDOHR have a purpose
Suggestions: Exclusive weapons, Exclusive material, more coins, or whatever you can think of.
Why? As of now, the BOHLDOHR has nothing to it, as it's only drop is 3 Gold Coins. As most rare enemies have something to make them worth killing.
quick ice
BOHLDOHR used to have a use
it used to allow the player to Summon The L0RDE, but with that being removed it's irrelevant
quick ice
allow me to propose some changes to the BOHLDOHR
Stats:
HP: Buff a little bit so it's a little bit less of a joke unlike every other enemy in the game except for a few Abyss enemies and minibosses
KB Resistance: Make 100% since it is a Ball of Lihzard Bricks/Stone, and so it poses a little bit of a threat despite being a contact enemy in Late-Hardmode
Drops:
Lihzard Bricks (10-26) 100%
Solar Tablet Fragments 1 33%
Essence of Sunlight (1-2) 100%
Name Change: Change it from BOLHDHOR to Buldhur, so the enemy has a name that doesn't sound so joke-y
radiant meadow
could drop essence of sunlight
quick ice
woah, someone important noticed my suggestion
radiant meadow
I roam the chats here every day as moderator 👀
sand umbra
also give it an actual name for the love of god
quick ice
I added that to the suggestion right as you said that lol
zenith hazel
I lurk here to watch this place explode from arguments
either way, nice sugg regardless
radiant meadow
idk how Boldohr to Bulduhr is a big difference
quick ice
as least remove the capitals from every letter of it's name except the first letter
radiant meadow
that's easy enough
quick ice
changing it from BOHLDOHR to Bohldohr would be better
radiant meadow
ye, I don't like the u
haughty laurel
Bohldohr is said like boulder, bulduhr is like bull durrrr
radiant meadow
lihzahrd bricks should probably only drop post golem
arctic notch
Or not drop at all.
radiant meadow
so like you can't accidentally trap yourself or something
quick ice
added that
haughty laurel
if they trap themselves thats their fault
and couldnt they magic mirror/recall potion
quick ice
maybe, but Lihzard bricks are meant to be OBTAINABLE Post-Golem
arctic notch
Yet they generate at the beginning of the game.
haughty laurel
lmao
radiant meadow
removed reactions from the 1st one to basically combine the suggestions
zenith hazel
2 suggs that are pretty much the same, nice
quick ice
yes, but mine is better because it is made by Me It gives suggestions for how to fix Bohldohr
arctic notch
Mine was first, and it actually sparked the convo I think.
quick ice
It did, yes
haughty laurel
jsut bring the lorde back to give bohldohr a use
queen delta
You could’ve had the first person edit the suggestion
zenith hazel
I will shoot anyone who makes a lorde sugg
radiant meadow
I could've
queen delta
Instead of trying to compete and make a better suggestion cuz that totally matters
radiant meadow
but too late for that, now isn't it
quick ice
I don't care about having the sugg myself, it totally blew over my head I could tell him to change it
radiant meadow
the idea still stands
if it gets sent to the dev server, I'll implement the changes
arctic notch
I could just copy and paste it, and give you credit.
radiant meadow
you don't need to do anything at this point
quick ice
I hardly think it matters, whether me or you have the suggestion it'll be sent to the Dev server
if you want I can edit it to credit you as the inspiration for the suggestion
arctic notch
Up to you.
quick ice
anyhow, what enemies in the mod are bad similarly to the Bohldohr?
I'd like to take a crack at making suggestions to make them less bland (Except Slimes since my suggestion to fix those was shot down because it was already suggested a long time ago)
radiant meadow
you could look on the enemies page on the wiki
quick ice
good idea, I'll test all the enemies in a testing world
smoky wagon
I never felt like the perfs were overly unfair
queen delta
Even if you stayed in a general spot?
smoky wagon
With decent screen res you can react to all the projectiles and the worms require a single jump to dodge
Yes
queen delta
Yeah lets just jump, while the hive is right above
smoky wagon
I know for small screen resolutions it is more problematic, but is that what the mod is balanced around?
queen delta
Perf worms can
sand umbra
says who
smoky wagon
You can do a small enough jump to not hit the hive lol
queen delta
They've easily been able to reach me
sand umbra
then your platforms aren't high enough
queen delta
the ground is out of sight
smoky wagon
perf worms can reach it only when they are on low hp
queen delta
Nah they reached me while they were full health
queen delta
Fine ill show you a gif
Welp i had a perfect scenario but it never recorded
If it ever happens again, ill make sure to send a gif
smoky wagon
the one time it might happen is if they build alot of momentum from spawning far away
but that is a one time thing typically
queen delta
The major problem is how insanely fast the worms are at low health
And well, dashing or jumping past them isnt as simple as that cuz doing either has a high chance of you ramming the rain or jumping into hive
queen delta
I like the worms but with the hive being there, its way too unfair
When was the last time you fought perfs?
queen delta
Sure
smoky wagon
in that run i never had to dodge the worms
but from personal experience fighting them other times i could jump them
the hive was never so close i would get hit
You could jump between the bullets
queen delta
So basically this boss was easy for you cuz you melted them before they were an actual threat?
Cuz the worms never lasted 5 seconds and didnt get a chance to shoot projectiles at you
smoky wagon
i never see the worms shoot projectiles
queen delta
Well they do
smoky wagon
but i do have solid blocks incase they do
queen delta
Theyll shoot you when they have the chance to
sand umbra
see in my nohit I just kept running in a direction and the worms barely existed in the first place because their spawn locations got memed
queen delta
Once you see the full potential of the worms, you’ll probably agree with this suggestion
smoky wagon
i saw their full potential when i did them with melee
the fight took about 3.5 minutes
im not convinced they need major changes other than toning down the rng
fierce sorrel
manic kraken
its an issue since I usually have high throw speed and velocity, even with the anti-lag mod to remove dust clutters, it still lags 
queen delta
I'm not using BoC lore
And plus, a fight shouldn't be revolved around utilizing phm RoD
ashen warren
hmm yes today i shall balance pre-hm fights around using rod of discord
wary flume
😂
manic kraken
arctic notch
lost agate
All these drop suggestions 
quick ice
I know it's not that important, but it's a nice QoL change to make the Cryon and Angry Doggo less useless In hardmode
lost agate
Angry Dog drops cryophobia and leather
quick ice
forgot those, but they're useless in hardmode making their buff quite random
lost agate
Why would a pre hm enemy need to be useful on hardmode
quick ice
it's buffed in Hardmode after Cryogen
lost agate
Is it
quick ice
yes
quick ice
if it wasn't I wouldn't suggest giving it drops
ashen warren
Honestly, for such a short suggestion, it's pretty good
quick ice
I was also gonna tack on some stuff for Cryon spawning in Blizzards, but I felt that it was unecessary
ashen warren
Nah
quick ice
since it's just a fighter AI and wouldn't make the event any more fun
arctic notch
Bloon?
ashen warren
blood moon
arctic notch
Oh.
quick ice
Don’t forget pirates
queen delta
The people that steal terraria for free
karmic stone
steal for free
quick ice
I meant the invasion but yea those suck too
jovial spire
Buff both Turtle and Beetle Armor
Why they should be buffed: Both of these armor are basically usless as Turtle Shells take forever to grind and is only good for a single boss, and Beetle Armor is just usless in general since Ataxia Armor better than it and, once again, easier to get. Perhaps boost the defence of both armor by a good amount, or have them give you DR. Perhaps they could also lose the melee bonuses for in general bonuses and make them in genetal damage bonuses to make them like Mollusk Armor, a multiclass tank set.
lost agate
Eh, idk if i like the idea of removing stats from an armor
quick ice
Problem with that is turtle/beetle are the Vanilla pre-endgame set for Melee
quick ice
I can get behind turtle being multi class tank, but not beetle
jovial spire
Why not beetle?
quick ice
Having 2 multi class tank armors in one area doesn’t make sense
queen delta
True
quick ice
And Giant Tortoises are pretty tanky, so turtle armor being tanky fits
Plus keeping beetle as tanky-melee lets people have that option if they don’t want multi class and want to focus melee
jovial spire
I mean turtle is pre plantera and beetle is post golem
Reaver and Ataxia have a smaller difference
ashen warren
The problem is though
Fab dislikes tank strats
and ataxia beats scalemail damage via fire proc
jovial spire
Plus, with mech alts existing it can be up to 7 bosses
arctic notch
**Make the "Warned" role have a different color. **
Probably like an ugly green, or some other unlikable color so that it's not appealing.
Why? It could help Moderators and above tell who's already been warned, and the ugly/bad color could make it seem not like a reward, but a punishment.
jovial spire
an ugly green
But why would we give warned people Dead Inside
quick ice
You mean like a yellow-green color then?
arctic notch
Yeah.
But it could be any bad color. Like a lot of oranges. Brown is just a dark orange.
ashen warren
Give them a colour that almost exactly matches the darkmode background
arctic notch
Why?
ashen warren
Can't be seen.
arctic notch
What if it's a Light Mode user?
ashen warren
Going for "gross" colours is childish.
Why does it even matter so much what the color is-
¯_(ツ)_/¯
ashen warren
If I were to give it a colour, it'd be marginally different from white.
heavy if though
terse sundial
it just defaults to white
plus, we log all warns, mutes, and bans, so it's quite easy for us to know if someone is warned already
arctic notch
Ah.
quick ice
Now I want a color
tired haven
Your simpliest option might be to nohit every boss in revengeance according to nohit rules 👀
which is far from actually simple and I recommend against that
quick ice
S-Cal so hard tho...
wary flume
Where can I find the no hit rules?
rugged mist
if i want a color i could just start making calamity content since i have 1k+ subs
tired haven
Help and advice channel has pinned doc
radiant meadow
^
quick ice
Yeah but wiki is pretty good already, so what is there to add that would get someone Editor?
radiant meadow
well for one, there's a fat update about to be dropped on our heads
even if Merk steals a good chunk of the work prior to that
quick ice
Good point, that’s opportunity right there
radiant meadow
if you actually plan to pitch in, just give the word and you can have access to #wiki-basic
radiant meadow
oh, I'm smart, I swear
wiki editor actually takes time and dedication though. Edit the wiki for fun, not for the role.
same applies to nohitting actually
quick ice
No I know, I’ve done some wiki editing for SoA and a couple other mods that I can get source-code for
tired haven
Nohitting solely for a role is the worst thing you can get into 
quick ice
And no-hitting would be fun just I gotta play through the whole mod and actually understand the bosses
dense owl
Drill Mount upgrades?
Small thing but it's annoying that it has a fixed Pickaxe Power of 210. Vanilla, it can mine anything, but Calamity ores present an impenetrable obstacle to it.
Maybe have upgraded versions made by combining it with 40 bars of higher-tier ore (40 because that's how many of each bar are used in crafting the original)
proven tide
@next palm the idea was considered and sprited but denied because "summoner already has two pre-boss options"
next palm
Oh yeah
proven tide
bruh melee has dozens ok
tired haven
most of melee options are garbage so that's fine 
proven tide
arkh and yata are pre-boss
next palm
lost agate
Yata?
tired haven
yatevo's bloom or whatever that donator wep was
proven tide
yataveo bloom
lost agate
Ah
proven tide
@ashen warren gush
lost agate
Well thats from jungle
proven tide
and pre-boss
ashen warren
lost agate
If you manage to survive there pre boss then gg
tired haven
Fiery greatsword is also preboss, kind of
ashen warren
tired haven
Rev :bol:s are fun
proven tide
hollow idol
wulfrum summon was scrapped
unique vector
i think it is
ashen warren
Someone has probably suggested this already, but... Trainable AI for Yharim
Pretty sure it's super complicated, but it would also be super worth it
As a complete tech nerd and calamity fan, I know for a fact that it's a good idea
lost agate
Trainable ai??
lost agate
?
ashen warren
Trainable AI is AI that records data on what works and doesn't work, and LEARNS from it somehow
rugged mist
i think he means like it learns from what you do and adjusts itself accordingly
ashen warren
yes
lost agate
Thats
ashen warren
People have done it before
lost agate
Stupidly too complex for just a boss
sand umbra
also, SuperHot take: wouldn't that fit better for e.g. Yharim or Xeroc, if and when they happen
sand umbra
I thought you said for Yharon 
lost agate
I mean
sand umbra
don't mind me
ashen warren
human enemies need humanoid ai
lost agate
Does it really need a complex af ai
ashen warren
maybe
lost agate
Also like, that barely makes any sense
ashen warren
It doesn’t need it, you’d just prefer if it did*
lost agate
Almost everything should have trainable ai by that logic
lost agate
More than half of the bosses has an actual brain
ashen warren
People have done it before, and the best AI out there completely obliterate the best players of the games the AI run in
lost agate
Hell some are brains
ashen warren
Just because it’s been done before does not mean it’s suitable for this particular game, boss etc
ashen warren
Mostly due to their ability to "think ahead" further than people can
ik its a mod, but im obsessed
lost agate
ML already predicts you with some of his attacks and that by itself is considered ass by most people
ashen warren
he does? i guess i'm not all-knowing like i thought...
lol
It’s cool you’re passionate about it and whatnot, but try not to force that on us or terraria and it’s mods as a whole, due to how movement works etc, it’s extremely unlikely that kinda thing would be fun for the majority of peeps
k
lost agate
Idek if thats even possible on terraria code
lost agate
Or it can just not be
ashen warren
ye
teal ibex
this is just a limitation of scope
lost agate
Cuz entirely new ai for one difficulty is bleh
ashen warren
...
teal ibex
developmental ai would be super duper incredible and impressive, but it's not feasible with a mod team of this size who, for the most part, aren't getting paid to work on it
ashen warren
yeah...
lost agate
Or arent expert programmers
teal ibex
it's a big part of what suggestions do/don't make the cut -- there's lots of great ideas, but only a handful of them are within reason to implement as well
ashen warren
I just set absurd goals and expect to achieve them, sorry I'm forcing them on other people I guess
clear basin
Andypowerz in order to do that it would require qlearning and 1000+ simulated trials and hours and hours of work and- it's improbable
teal ibex
it's fine, as long as you don't go ballistic when people find it hard to accommodate 
clear basin
Most people suggest things for the reason of being, well doable
ashen warren
Sometimes the people who were thought to be insane were hailed as geniuses later on
Example: Einstein
clear basin
Are you comapring yourself to the man who invented penicillin