Yeah
#suggestions-discussion
hollow saffron
hollow saffron
"really overkill fight" bro just dodge
like what armor are you using
@harsh pivot
And there is NOT a bullet storm
Bro this isnt Scal
hollow idol
"bro just dodge"
fierce hedge
Also, Custom arena exists but the "Just Dodge" excuse is stupid
You simply make yourself look like a fool
harsh pivot
okay then
but the bullet storm i meant is the amount of projectiles bouncing at very fast speeds
fierce hedge
Thats pretty balanced
karmic stone
Weren't those nerfed/going to be nerfed?
fierce hedge
They're easily dodgeable and no reason to be changed
placid moth
Ok, sometimes the bouncy projectiles might be a little too much to handle if you don't have a big enough arena.
Just have a big arena so you actually have space to dodge
fierce hedge
You can see them comming with a big enough arrna yeah
placid moth
If anything, it's the last Polter phase that makes it annoying, I hate clones.
hollow shell
btw Polter isnt Dungeon-restricted anymore
He's summoned there but it can be fought outside of it as long as youre underground
half basalt
Yeah
The reason that Yharimeme blows up and Murasama doesnt
is because Murasama is available pre-Yharon
While Yharimeme literally drops from P2 Yharon
so game knows for a fact you're cheating
novel pebble
I don’t get why it has to punish you tho
half basalt
To say "hey, stop being a dum cheater"
queen sail
Is it really a punishment if it’s free dynamite
half basalt
^
queen sail
half basalt
queen sail
Commit mining memes
novel pebble
Even if it explodes, It’s not really big, but I don’t see the point
novel pebble
If someone wants to cheat, why not let them do
Since they also could easily cheat in, like, Exoblade or something, that always works
half basalt
because this mod is anti cheating, which is fucking dumb
Really fucking dumb, like I have to admit
For example, you can't butcher doggo
yharimeme
or Supreme Fuckyou
novel pebble
🤷
shell lynx
Can I suggest that they buff the stardust guardian or has it already been done/not allowed?
I feel like its damage is really underwhelming for being an armor obtained from beating the moon lord
tired haven
ngl the buff is gonna be irrelevant since OOA tier 3 helmet beats it by far anyway
Though may be cool, go for it
shell lynx
alright
Would a damage buff work?
I don't think I've ever made a suggestion before so please give pointers if there's anything I can improve on
tired haven
There probably is something more interesting than damage buff but at the same time 40 base (i believe) is laughable to say the least
(you should probably separate stardust guardian and armor in suggestion itself because it sounds a bit confusing current way, as if guardian is obtainable item or armor itself)
shell lynx
thank you for the input
karmic stone
@supple lodge Commit reason
hollow idol
in my eyes, the cultist is too crazy to be redeemable
radiant meadow
You can't even spare Calamitas rn though?
hollow idol
you will be able to iirc
karmic stone
Spirit (I think) has a cultist NPC, so in their canon, he is redeemable
In Clam's canon he isn't really that looked into besides "aAaAaA Steve bad >:["
worthy fiber
The cultist is just one of the characters in a story you know will die
hollow idol
heck, Siren is only trying to kill you in self defense
jovial spire
If you consider luring you in so she can lets levi eat you self-defense, tyeah
echo pond
Just like the hundreds if not thousands of sailors she's also lured to their deaths for fish food
hollow idol
technically you beat her up to start the fight
ashen warren
this aint undertale kiddo
imo none of the npc except draedon and calamitas are useful or deserving enough to be spared
tired haven
technically siren does the fishing/luring so she only spares you because you are too big fish to bother
ashen warren
I'm pretty sure signus has redemption possibilities.
but yeah sparing is a little far tbh
All the guys you'd want are already dead or gone too, silva and so on.
yeah
sand umbra
@high snow Mind adding a reason to that suggestion?
high snow
Donezo
radiant meadow
perhaps the enemy can stay but the drop moves to post Golem
wary flume
Did you really just suggest something to be changed because it screws with a seperate mod
Like what
radiant meadow
I think that'd be better so it can still be used to get essence of sunlight
sand umbra
sounds reasonable
and I mean, now that I think of it
while Calamity balance should be separate from other mods for the most part, yes, pre-Hardmode-boss Conduit is uhhhhh
yeah
high snow
Yea, I like that
sand umbra
I can get behind the Martian Conduit Plating drop being moved to post-Golem, tbf
high snow
Yea
Maybe I should just make a mod that makes balances between all mods so I don't get yelled at after every suggestion I make
tired haven
nobody would go out of their way to install the mod like that shamefully
Also yes, but I think that pre-mech post-Golem armor is a bit too much even for RL
high snow
Yea
sand umbra
and I mean, it's not like such a change would affect anything else
everything that Calamity adds made with Martian Conduit Plating is post-Golem or later anyway, and it ain't that much
(just Charged Dart Blaster and Nanotech, from what I gathered)
tired haven
man my pre-plant martian saucer build is gonna be screwed nuuu--
radiant meadow
it's just for building purposes
tired haven
queen sail
You could also make that martian madness summoner from luiafk
...which doesn’t activate until post golem
sleek wadi
How about disabling shockstorm shuttle spawns/conduit plate drop until post-Golem while Thorium is installed, I'm pretty sure that kinda check is possible.
queen sail
Eh i mean
Shockstorm shuttle drops eleum/sunlight essences
Just the martian plating would probably be nice
sand umbra
Conduit Plating drop being disabled pre-Golem specifically with Thorium installed could work
I imagine it's not too terribly difficult I say with very little understanding of weak references a
radiant meadow
but there's bound to be other mods besides Thorium
sand umbra
then disable Conduit Plating drop pre-Golem to begin with idk 
sleek wadi
Thorium is one of if not THE only mod Calamity cares to crossmod with, so fuck the other ones
queen sail
Only other content mod i can think of that uses martian conduit plating as a craft mat is soa
hallow kraken
With spirit mod you can summon atlas early but actually why am I here
queen sail
And even then that’s used with martian saucer drop mats
gusty geode
What's a tiny Martian saucer got to do with the sun anyway
hallow kraken
ShockSTORM Shuttle
civic pond
shuddle
hallow kraken
The essence of sky, light, and storm creatures
swift bison
polter doesn't need a nerf smh
hallow kraken
ohno
sand umbra
the only thing I can really see needing a nerf about Polter is how much everything bounces off of everything
but meh
he's already become a lot easier, or maybe that's just me having a semi-properly-made arena for once
hallow kraken
Polter is hard but not nerf-worthy
civic pond
its reduce RNG-worthy
swift bison
^
sand umbra
^
swift bison
All RNG in bossfights should be reactable
so like changing attacks at random makes sense
sand umbra
a dart bouncing into my anus because I let it exist earlier in the fight, however
does not make sense
swift bison
Exactly
sleek wadi
Polter needs to not be such a snooze fest
hoary hinge
don't they like glow neon blue
hallow kraken
Why does the second phase exist
civic pond
Bouncing projectiles are kind of ech for me
hoary hinge
look if you don't like Polterghast you can skip him and go straight to DoG if you're good enough
it's hard, but not impossible
hallow kraken
And not get adrenaline upgrade, abyss weapons, bloodflare armor,
hoary hinge
you can just kill polterghast after dog with the weapons you get from dog
not complex
sleek wadi
Hard? Polterghast, at least casually, is not hard. Fuck the only thing keeping me from calling it the easiest major post-ML boss is the fact that I haven't fought new DoG yet. Polterghast is boring as all hell is the issue.
hoary hinge
then you'll have the adrenaline upgrade and the bloodflare armor which you will use for nothing except for crafting auric tesla
sleek wadi
A health pool deeper than the mariana trench, simple movement pattern, and low damage all comes together to make a bullet sponge.
hallow kraken
Btw, by me saying hard I meant a challenge, not impossible
crystal osprey
Is it just me or did the suggestion channel disappear
frail mantle
it's just you
hearty yew
@high snow This check could also only occur if thorium is enabled
That is, shockstorms drop conduit plating pre golem but only if thorium isn't installed
crystal osprey
On that subject, why doesn't molten armor have lava immunity?
icy knoll
tired haven
A bit excessive to give molten set fire attacks because magma stone exists
No lava immunity? Well, molten armor doesn't seem to be a great choice to negate lava
But then again, nitpicking on fantasy game logic is a bit dumb from my side
frail mantle
iirc i once suggested to include magma stone in molten armor recipe and make molten set imbue your attacks with On Fire
wary flume
It sounds like a really good idea but if you really look at all the debuffs weapons already inflict it seems pointless especially since alot of early hardmode weapons do set thin gs on fire whether it be cursed or not
terse rampart
Sounds like a nerf to molten armor
Remeber you have limited hits u can do to a boss per tick
Soo ye its a nerf not a buff
tired haven
There is so much wrong with this sentence
jovial spire
^
tired haven
- bosses don't have limites hits per second at all
- what DOES limit your attacks is pierce iframes, which persist not on all weapons
- damage over time isn't a pierce attack. It's just a debuff
terse rampart
Idk thats how i perceive it as a filthy casual
I notices that my bees dont do as many hits
When paired up with dots
placid moth
dots ?
tired haven
It's your bees that don't let you do dmg in first place
warm tinsel
My spare-able character list would be lore wise:
Brimmy
Siren
Lunatic Cultist
Draedon
Supreme Calamitas
Yharim (lololol, as if he was gonna be spared by a weakling)
high snow
Maybe have like a 20% chance to set enemies on fire when they touch you
hallow kraken
Why would molten armor need to be changed anyways
zenith hazel
she already does that, and the debuff is called holy inferno
proven tide
solemn flame
cyan lagoon
Ewww yeah i agree
It wouldnt be so bad but its 250 arrows per craft
Which guarantees a profit given you can consistently kill cryogen
lost agate
Holy shit thats a lot
odd terrace
Wiki says 15-24 per kill, and treasure bag page says 20-40.
Assuming those are accurate, that’s .9-1.44 Platinum per kill on normal and 1.2-2.4 per kill on expert+
lost agate
I uh,,, yeah im gonna go look at that
rugged mist
fear
lost agate
Enjoy the money before its patched
rugged mist
are there any other ammos that have that sort of problem or is it just those arrows
lost agate
Yeah i would like to know
jovial spire
Why would we tell you
lost agate
Hm
lost agate
Because if you dont tell me im gonna have to check myself anyway
odd terrace
Shouldn’t take long to check for you though
lost agate
Yeah
distant gyro
oh god that's a lot 
rugged mist
if i werent in class rn id boot up the game for the first time in months to investigate
odd terrace
12 copper per arrow would make them equal to Ice Stars
distant gyro
compared to things like Snowstorm Staff's 1.20 gold per Frigid Bar
lost agate
How much does the frigid bars sell for again?
odd terrace
Oh god I love your pfp Curby
lost agate
odd terrace
60 silver
distant gyro
also another economic crisis
odd terrace
Ice Stars give 3 gold per bar
lost agate
Hoh boy
rugged mist
stonks
odd terrace
You could just make them worth nothing
distant gyro
arrow economy moments
lost agate
Gonna have to look through a lot of ammo i see
odd terrace
Since you can’t reforge them anyway
lost agate
Nah
Just lower them so selling them nets you the same profit you got them for
Maybe a bit more
But not 10x more jesus 
rugged mist
so 2.4 copper per arrow
lost agate
Kind of yeah
rugged mist
thats a bruh price
radiant pawn
arrows dont sell more than 3 gold if stacked a bunch i believe
but thank you for the artic arrow thing imma go sell arrows now
rugged mist
get enough money to use it as decoration at your base like i did once
radiant pawn
bruh
sand umbra
why sell arctic arrows when I can just farmageddon Cryo though
radiant pawn
its coin gun time
sand umbra
coin gun moments
odd terrace
Make a house out of 2 platinum buff candles
radiant pawn
arma cryo becomes easy literally late hm
queen sail
Cryo is really easy in general tbh
radiant pawn
early stages of hm makes arma cryo really hard
queen sail
To nohit
sand umbra
yeah okbuddy
radiant pawn
yes
rugged mist
recreate this https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/531606377962012682/605588894301290506/unknown.png
radiant pawn
what an ugly flex im sorry :ech:
sand umbra
I'd like to see you nohit an overgrown ice cube that forces a blizzard when it spawns in and has bruh teleports in current patch
and also spawns mooks that move approximately too fast if they exist for more than 2 seconds
radiant pawn
those arent the problem
queen sail
Just saying you can disable the blizzard effect if it bothers you
radiant pawn
the problem is seeing the fucking mines
sand umbra
no?
sand umbra
I tried countless fucking times to Torrential Tear that thing and it never worked for me
odd terrace
It’s still stupidly efficient endgame
lost agate
Ok so, normal arrows sell for 1 copper
odd terrace
When you can annihilate it
queen sail
You guys literally do realize that you can reduce the blizzard to just be slightly more snow particles instead of a full on effect
lost agate
3 for artic would be good i suppose
odd terrace
Btw, have fun crafting and selling them
distant gyro
eh considering ichor arrows sell for 16c
distant gyro
but ichor arrows are in a smaller yield
yea arctic arrows can sell for 16 * 0.6 each
aka 10 copper
total up to 25 silver per bar compared to 60
lost agate
Hold up
distant gyro
yea that's a calculation
lost agate
Oh i see the problem
rugged mist
oh yeah i messed up my math because i forgot a 0 oof
lost agate
Efficiently making them 10x more than what they should be
odd terrace
Yeah, that would make it equal to just selling the bars
lost agate
Yeah gonna be going around checking sell prices when i get home
Well enjoy the 9x extra money while you can
queen sail
Stonks
odd terrace
Also, can you check out Titan Arm’s reforge price
queen sail
Is it really cheap or smth
odd terrace
IIRC it’s 10x what it should be, excluding when reforging its base form
queen sail
How expensive
odd terrace
It starts at like 12g or something and jumps to over 1p for most modifiers
lost agate
Well uh, most arrows are kinda blown out of proportion
queen sail
Reforge prices supposed to be based on sell prices
odd terrace
That changes too
lost agate
Terra arrows sells at the same bloodfire arrows does
Yeah im gonna have fun checkng through these
odd terrace
I usually just sell the modified Titan Arm if it’s a mediocre reforge
lost agate
Thats weird
It sells for 10 gold
Dunno why it would jump to platinum
Stellar cannon sells for more even
odd terrace
Also, though not unintentional, Frostspark Boots’ value feels a bit high
Significantly higher than other accessories of its tier
Makes reforging painful
lost agate
Das vanilla so eh
odd terrace
Just thought I’d put it out there anyway 
hollow shell
@odd terrace What do you mean "tack onto"?
hollow shell
So like
WoF's boost is 50%
Plantera's boost will be increased from 100% to 150%?
and Polterghast's will be increased from 150% to 300%?
queen sail
How big is that range
karmic stone
You would have 4 times as more grab range with Polpol's
hollow shell
I feel like they're in separate items for balance reasons
If you want the huge-ass grab range, you gotta give up 2 or 3 inventory spaces
lost agate
Or drink a potion
hollow shell
Everybody wants ways to save on inventory space using the lore items
but
That's how they're balanced
Probably gotta make a Don't about this
lost agate
Byeah
brazen bramble
that's basically like having a permanent potion in your inventory
hollow shell
Well Ceaseless Hunger is a lot larger than 4x
but only for 10 seconds
lost agate
Byeah
hollow shell
a Don't has been written
Nunuyz's suggestion is fine cuz it was made before the Don't
sand umbra
my thing with the item grab range ones is like
void kelp
I thought the don’t doc already included stuff on “don’t ask to compress lore items”
queen sail
What are you gonna do with increased grab range tbh
sand umbra
given you get RoD right after WoF which helps greatly with reaching unreachable stuff, you're likely to keep all your drops in a small area when farming anyway, and by the time you reach Polterghast you have access to Ceaseless Hunger Potions which are infinitely better
queen sail
Unless something drops behind several walls
runic heath
Endless hunger is such a fun potion lol
rugged mist
if it drops behind several walls use rod
sand umbra
Ceaseless Hunger is literally a legitimate form of item magnet and you have the Rod of Discord + pickaxes that can literally tear through the world in seconds
hollow shell
You right, spider. It was a 'frequently suggested' thing
sand umbra
with all due respect, the item grab ranges aren't gonna help you out a whole lot
hollow shell
added "also a "shouldn't"" to it
runic heath
Ceaseless hunger is just really nice in general for not missing drops. Item grab range is nice up until that point but afterwards it's just kind of eh
sand umbra
and there are way better lores to stuff your inventory woth
both for boss-fighting and for general purpose
runic heath
the biggest disadvantage of course having to farm CV
queen sail
Like skeletron prime lore
runic heath
I think I have had desert scourge and crabulon lore in my inventory for almost the entire game
for reference I tend to build my arenas in deserts
for that sick +5 defense
queen sail
Why does mushy exist again btw
It’s very situational
“For the first few seconds crabulon doesn’t attack, he buffs you”
sand umbra
it's weird in the fight itself, but see
Crabulon lore gives you that buff indefinitely
runic heath
For the crabulon lore it makes underground exploration really nice
runic heath
doesn't work in underworld though rip
queen sail
Crab lore is nice for early game exploring
But the other way of getting the buff is
Um
runic heath
but yeah def makes for better early game exploring 5 life regen and 10 defense is great
queen sail
sand umbra
5 life regen is a valuable asset even a bit later on
10 defense becomes irrelevant fairly quickly but life regen is always a highly-welcome boost
runic heath
build all your arenas underground for life regen bonus
radiant pawn
I didnt understand anything from the suggestion
wdym "Tack"
and how would you stack 3 different items with different coding
tired haven
I guess it means "make plantera lore effect equal to current plantera + wof lore"
and prevent stacking ofc
except again, there is no reason to get rid of lores taking your inventory space since it ruins the whole point of balancing
sand umbra
and I already explained earlier why there's really no point to limiting inventory space for item grab range past 1 slot
given that item grab range isn't really helpful to any appreciable extent in the first place
terse sundial
Isn't it planned already?
lost agate
Dunno
sand umbra
I mean, armor is a lot more work than weapons, so I can understand why
lost agate
But the current resprites didnt include the armor so heh
void kelp
i thought it was being worked on iirc
the only reason why it didn’t come w the weapons was bc the armor was like, a collab/needed animating
lost agate
Ah i see
next palm
toxic aurora
Bee only re sprited the wespons, he tends to re sprite weapons not armor
karmic stone
Set a password to Crystyl Crusher tbh
lost agate
You know what also causes base destruction?
karmic stone
But on a more serious note, i don't think it's necessary, just dont have it anywhere near your hotbar while near any important building
lost agate
Dynamite, but you dont see a safety system do you?
reef plover
it's an endgame pick that is made purely for fast destruction
if you use it expecting it not to destroy then
balmy coyote
chaining suggestions
queen delta
I feel like nick’s suggestion is a meme one mocking the above suggestion
civic pond
who knows..,
unique vector
@still cliff try not to suggestion chain, just tell the original poster to add to their suggestion
terse sundial
If it isn't going to be changed we will just remove it
terse sundial
^
queen delta
or repeating the same thing said 2 messages above
lost agate
tf is that
hollow saffron
its a spellcheck thingy
hollow saffron
oof
lost agate
done
queen delta
Oh no a typo! The whole mod is unplayable now!
rugged mist
guys help im shaking rn i cant breathe i opened up calamity mod and and it said "sowrd" instead of sword wtf does this mean
smoky wagon
Arc of the cosoms
civic pond
🔫
terse sundial
it's been 2.5 hours since that chain suggestion was made, it's going
hoary hinge
ahh cos or some say cosom
zenith hazel
get back on topic please
odd terrace
On that note, would y’all be interested in a list of grammatical errors/inconsistencies?
radiant meadow
you can post it if you want I guess.
proven tide
me: *points this out in bugs channel the week the rariant update drops, gets thanked for putting it in the right channel by ozz*
elctrical: *stays in the game for four months*
one suggestion: 'elctrical' 🏁
radiant meadow
you see, I wasn't a dev then so I couldn't fix it myself 
proven tide
ozz acknowledged it and thanked me for putting it in the right channel ;;
which wasn't #suggestions-voting
proven tide
@torn mulch has what health?
hollow saffron
then edit your sugg
torn mulch
i m so great t explaining this
odd terrace
I mean, if I do, will it likely be taken into consideration or just be more “elctrical” 
lost agate
its only hectic on death
sand umbra
petition to make it more hectic in not-death
lost agate
petition stored, lemme put it next to the other 10
sand umbra
queen delta
I already made a suggestion a few days ago asking for that
elfin maple
"make yharim's crystal do not drop dynomites if you use it before you kill yharon
reason: i blowed up my house. Also just make it work like murasama which you cant use it (cant swing)"
i mean that could only happen if you cheat it in but i do understand what you're talking about, same thing happened to me
it was kinda funny when it happened tho tbh
although i am against any form of anticheat that actively damages the player's world as punishment for cheating, which is not really a bad thing (cheating) in my eyes since this is modded after all
runic heath
yeah something like lul, which tbf you don't have to cheat in, works
teal ibex
why am i only in death 
sand umbra
because only the coolest people get to be Death-exclusive
...or at least, I'm mildly certain that's how that works
queen sail
Add more significant changes to enemies in Revengeance Mode.
Reason: For being a full-on difficulty mode, Revengeance surprisingly doesn’t affect enemies that much. The current “AI” changes are rather minimal, with it mostly being enemies becoming immune to knockback or having a minor change (e.g becoming immune to stunlock) at a certain percent of HP. Not only are these changes not very significant, they only affect a select few mobs in the game. Revengeance would feel a bit more complete if enemies had, say, new attacks and actual AI changes. Say, for example, the Ice Golem, which only gets an increase in speed both movement and attack wise. Perhaps they could summon Ice Elementals at certain intervals of HP, or jump and stomp on the ground and release a burst of ice mist in the process. As it stands at the moment, enemies in Revengeance feel very lacking in getting anything noteworthy.
lost agate
expert enemies also feel lackluster if you ask me
only zombies get any special threatment
ashen warren
Skeletons do as well, kinda
some of them throw bones
But yeah expert/rev should have more ai changes
lost agate
That if you wanna say rev isnt complete because of this well neither is expert
But well guess we all know that
odd terrace
Inb4 Master mode is just Demon Eyes demolishing your house with their faces eyes bodies(?)
Can't stop that with a torch behind a door
ashen warren
**Disallow Wiki Bot from embedding in channels other than #wiki-lookup **
This way, large walls of text won't form outside of that channel, but people can still bring up the wiki without it being distruptive.
my question is, is this actually possible and is there any feedback anyone has on it
marsh gust
you can make the wikibot to not show embed when using the command iirc
ashen warren
yeah but will people care
marsh gust
no, but will they care opening the wiki link?
ashen warren
hmm yeah that is valid too 😔
marsh gust
it is possible to disable embeds from it so it only shows in #wiki-lookup tho
foggy kindle
Just block the bot from all channels except #help-advice-read-pins, #calamity-mod-talk and #wiki-lookup
ashen warren
well then i might as well post it and see how y'all think of it
byeah that would work too
i'll include that
wary flume
Remove the post
terse sundial
@fast ledge You can break abyssal gravel with a nightmare/deathbringer pickaxe, it just takes a bit
because of that, you can enter the houses on the 2nd layer just fine if they are blocked
fast ledge
oh... i thought that was voidstone
teal ibex
@terse sundial how about two in a row 👀
terse sundial
god
void kelp
@jagged jolt
terse sundial
Specific item suggestions aren't currently allowed
karmic stone
Read the don'ts doc prolly tbh ngl
terse sundial
either make your suggestion more general or adjust it to something else
left crest
delete that, specific item suggestions aren't allowed
terse sundial
smh
I have to let them have time to fix it if they are going to
they have 5 mins
jagged jolt
Oops
opal barn
Probably because it's already good
radiant pawn
civic pond
opal barn
Kill times and testing do not lie
opal barn
It requires high IQ but if you can utilize it it's damage output is that of high iq eidolic wail
lost agate
Yup
sand umbra
at this point I don't care to redo my tests or argue on this any further
if the devs say it's good then it's good, whatever
lost agate
Well if you took like twice the time i took so.
sand umbra
the only issue is my lack of IQ with the weapon, obviously
lost agate
I still need to make that vid i know
opal barn
Not just devs but the testers and cool dudes as well, said in Anakin's voice
sand umbra
so I won't press it
lost agate
What i actually havent tried and i want to, its the melting potential
hollow shell
@cinder mango Well you see
the huge aspect of the game that their drops take away from
is tedious and boring
cinder mango
it could be boring for you, but for me fishing is quite important
I feel like the best way to solve this would be to make it togglable
but I don't know if its possible
hollow shell
Of course it's possible with configs
but I think you're probably not in the majority in enjoying fishing
ashen warren
just trash the fishing items if you don’t like the feature
hollow shell
Getting the full Angler set takes 20 in-game days, which are 24 minutes each
This is 8 hours.
tired haven
That is if you never skip a single day to fish.
Usually that racks up to 10-12 easily
And after that more often than not you barely have 1-2 items from tackle box
cinder mango
@ashen warren it could work on single player, when it comes to the mulitplayer though, fishing becomes totally useless, where before I was able to get some advantage over other people using it
toxic pagoda
I like fishing and all but getting fishing stuff from Scourge is so helpful lol
civic pond
frankly i just dont understand why they both drop fishing stuff
toxic pagoda
Yea lol
civic pond
DS alone or AS alone would have been fine
sand umbra
better question
civic pond
and also dropping victide shid at that tier confuses me
toxic pagoda
I rush that bait tackle box and get fishies for good buff potions right away
sand umbra
why doesn't Sulf Sea shit in general have a chance to drop fishing gear
why is it only AS specifically
toxic pagoda
Who knows dawg
sand umbra
You can, and in fact are encouraged to, visit the Sulfur Sea pre-Hardmode, and there's been so much shit dumped there over time that I refuse to believe fishing gear isn't at least in somewhat high supply given it's an ocean.
cinder mango
To be fair
if it was quite rare for him to drop
I would be fine with it
but literally after killing him one time
civic pond
just remove AS fishing loot and distribute it to all the sulfurous enemies
cinder mango
you have the whole angler set and all the fishing items
civic pond
thats killing 2 stones with one bird
sand umbra
But yeah. Literally just move general fishing gear drops to the Sulf. Sea enemies.
It'd make a hell of a lot more sense, being entirely frank.
hoary hinge
Don't forget the siren and leviathan dropping bottomless bucket and sponge!
hollow shell
And Hotline.
ruby cobalt
or some shit like that
cinder mango
is it allowed to edit messages in #suggestions-voting ?
hoary hinge
There is still useful drops from fishing such as Frog Leg (because nobody got time to go get 10 Frogs lol), Chaos Fish for the Rod of Discord, and the Sundial - and the Sundial DOES have a use despite the Cosmolight being in the game because you can use it during the Skele Prime boss fight to get Burden Breaker without waiting around as long, and it can get you Solar Eclipse and invasion events, while the Cosmolight can't
queen delta
Yeah you can edit messages
hollow shell
You can do that, yeah
sand umbra
also, late on assessing this, but
hoary hinge
There's also reaver shark if you want to skip half of pre hard mode and the crates trick to get adamantite and titanium gear before breaking any demon altars
sand umbra
Siren and Levi dropping better fishing stuff makes sense
since the whole thing of it is that the Siren lures sailors --- who likely also fish quite often --- to their doom
naturally, said sailors probably had some good stuff on their person
cinder mango
As I said before, I'm fine with siren and leviathan giving the fishing items cause they somewhat late in the game
but getting the whole angler set and tackle box before skeletron is kind of much
especially that all you need is to defeat the desert scourge once
so I'll just change the suggestion to moving the items to sulf sea monsters
hollow shell
Well, then it'd still be pre-Skeletron
cinder mango
yeah
hollow shell
what
Says the video game
cinder mango
but the rest of the suggestion
is that you need more grinding
in order to get the items
sand umbra
also you need to actually go out to the ocean at least
cinder mango
also it's optional
sand umbra
which you'd need to do anyway to get the Angler
runic heath
Well you’d generally get the supreme angler fishing station post skeletron since merchant sells master bait at that point
sand umbra
Imagine not actually using fishing gear for literally two minutes to get the Master Bait you need from crates.
vocal grotto
swift bison
sand umbra
lost agate
moving the fishing things to sulf sea enemies would make even more inventory clutter
and if im getting it correctly thats kind of the point of the suggestion
lost agate
So basically youre asking for royal gel to be useless on rev
half basalt
or just add royal gel to the recipe of the celestial jewel...
cyan lagoon
I think he meant to add it to the recipe
Because
Add the Royal Gel
and it's effectsto the Celestial Jewel
hollow shell
I thought that was clear . _.
formal cobalt
I edited it
cyan lagoon
At that point (where celestial jewel is) using the royal gel is a last resort
Because the only strong slimes at that point aren't affected
lost agate
Oh hold on a second
im stupid dont mind me
i confused crown jewel with celestial jewel
hollow shell
oh
formal cobalt
oof
lost agate
well yeah i would like that
also because royal gel is gonna work on calamity slimes next update
(Im brain farting very often as of late i swear)
formal cobalt
it will? It's not in the changelogs, and that was going to be my next suggestion
lost agate
yeah termi mentioned it
he had to make his own bool for that tho cuz vanilla doesnt have one :thinkies:
formal cobalt
oofed
radiant meadow
since vanilla one doesn't have one, that means I have to implement the vanilla slimes manually if it was added to crown jewel 
and it wouldn't have crossmod support
cedar jacinth
Perhaps a weak suggestion but it's kinda annoying how many of my deaths was from a random teleport for no other reason
karmic stone
This has happened to me as well, and on a flat, clear surface at that
nocturne crow
Well, he only teleports on the player if he can't see the player.
cedar jacinth
I mean, I was in sight of the slime king. There shouldn't have been any reasoning why it would teleport while i'm on the same platform as it
formal cobalt
if he teleports, he only lands on solid ground if you're not cheating
so he won't appear on platforms
try that
nocturne crow
Yeah. The rope cheese no longer works.
That does get annoying when armageddon is active though, and can easily ruin nohit runs if the player chooses to get a KS kill in the run.
radiant meadow
@high snow oh ye, I made conduit drop only post golem next update for you
formal cobalt
why, though? It's only for decoration.
radiant meadow
causes some mod conflicts
high snow
Woah really? Nice!
formal cobalt
that's fair
radiant meadow
particularly with Thorium
formal cobalt
very fair
radiant pawn
That suggestion of KS teleport is just i want this because im getting clapped by it
its RNG, you can't make RNG be strict
half basalt
Well yeah, but he/she said that KS was within range and line of sight
So it shouldn't have teleported on top of them
tired haven
I assume it's similar to this situation https://youtu.be/JoQBQRcUt84?t=87
hollow shell
Fuck that's a fast teleport
hallow kraken
Remember when he used an Iconoclasts song for the video
proven tide
@ashen warren why?
ashen warren
I've already written a "why:
" (heal will only be 3 hp. Like the vampire teeth in tconfig exxo avalon)"
hollow shell
You could make it clear that the reason is that you want it to be a reference to Exxo Avalon
and you could mention that this reference is fitting because the weapon is named after Avalon's creator
Also, it's 'Greatsword of Blah'
ashen warren
but I gave a reason?
hollow shell
But it is not clear.
Your reason could be more obvious, and it could be more fleshed out.
I gave you some ideas about how you could do that.
(and also it's not named "Judgement of Blah", it's named "Greatsword of Blah")
proven tide
If your reason is to strengthen the connection to what it's referencing, you've worded it as an example of such a mechanic, not an explanation of your reasoning.
perhaps it would be best to clarify
zenith hazel
it’s a neat concept and all but purified jam already does that, pretty much
radiant meadow
jam is very limited
fierce hedge
That is a consumable Yeah. But removes the healing possibility
Plus what about before Slime Gods
radiant meadow
but I guess it's limited for a reason
so, invincibility on hotkey may not be the best idea
zenith hazel
yeah, having rage behave somewhat like that should come at a cost
fierce hedge
I'm not saying that it would make you ENTIRELY invincible
Around 1 hit per 3 seconds or so
Maybe 4
Not complete invincibility
It just boosts your invis frames by a ton
zenith hazel
minor nitpick but I don’t see how rage and i-frames are connected
fierce hedge
As a reward for being hit, You gain the ability to be hit less
Or comeback*
Not really a reward
Pretty much sacrificing health for a small amount of time to be hit way less. With combination of Adrenaline you could facetank easier + Make True Melee WAY more viable
If you're up for it
teal ibex
this is an interesting but very very dangerous idea
fierce hedge
How so?
teal ibex
well, considering the case of true melee, most if not all true melee weapons are built around a simple construct of risk reward
to use them effectively you have to play risker but should resultantly be rewarded more considerably
this rage idea completely removes all risk and allows you to go absolutely bonkers with the reward if stacked with stuff like adrenaline and counter scarf etc
and since rage can, and often is, pre-charged before a bossfight, there would need to be ample consideration of how burst damage can completely invalidate certain bossfights through cheesing
fierce hedge
The thing is, It would take much much longer because you' have to get hit more for the Rage buff and dodge for the adrenaline stack
this would be reset before a bos
If a boss spawns, this would be reset
Like when a boss dies, the arenaline stops
teal ibex
that's not mentioned in the suggestion so you should probs revise it
teal ibex
that being said, this would exacerbate further another issue with rage in that it doesn't ever actually get filled ever until yharon, but benefit of the doubt that things could be adjusted for it seems fine as a reset
teal ibex
ye that's what i'm saying, under that assumption it seems alright
teal ibex
sounds good 
teal ibex
i like never star anything
ask for arma icons and you'll get my star and 89 alt accounts that will also star
lost agate
That rage idea just looks like coldheart icicle bait
Or true melee bait in general
Also how would the upgrades even work
fierce hedge
Each upgrade gives you a second more invis time
placid moth
Wouldn't that be nohit dq bait though
fierce hedge
You need to get hit to build it up
placid moth
I like the idea of extra i-frames though
lost agate
You know nohitters build rage before the fight right
And that more invincibility time is asking for even more true melee memes
lost agate
It already eats everything youre asking for it to annihilate the entire mod
rugged mist
since when is true melee not viable
tired haven
it doesn't eat cal and scal but w/e
fierce hedge
Risking your health for invis seems fine
tired haven
It's more about range in these two anyway
lost agate
Except you dont have to get the rage mid fight akways
fierce hedge
Being hit already resets adrenaline so it wouldn't be SO easy
lost agate
Just build rage before the fight, grab a true melee weapon and bam everything dies
placid moth
So, how many points of damage for a full bar of rage
ruby cobalt
400 damage, full rage
lost agate
As whole just free i frames are finicky
fierce hedge
A tiny hit would add almost nothing
ruby cobalt
not very close to instant death, is it?
lost agate
Like look, purified jam is absurdly limited and you want to just give i frames every single fight probably??
lost agate
Purified jam isnt much either
placid moth
If anything, I'd make rage boost movement speed or something
fierce hedge
Have something that will block Jam
tired haven
Pretty sure since jam doesn't use iframes to achieve invincibility they will just overlay
fierce hedge
Like a debuff
rugged mist
i dont see the point of making rage a defensive thing though
fierce hedge
You cant use Jam after Rage would be used around 50 seconds
rugged mist
can you also not use rage again?
fierce hedge
Adrenaline would be offense. Rage would be Defense
fierce hedge
Why do you need a damage bonus if another one exists that does both more damage and fills easier
placid moth
If you are going to rework rage, are you planning to compensate by buffing adrenaline as well ?
zenith hazel
rage is sometimes used as a means of last resort against a boss fight
fierce hedge
Very specific
lost agate
fills easier
zenith hazel
it's still a big chunk of health taken away from a boss
fierce hedge
Which is why it's close to nothing
lost agate
You know not everyone is able to nohit bosses right
So saying its easier to fill is...
lost agate
If you get hit its not faster
Its like everyone here forgets not everyone nohits shit when balancing rippers
pulsar kettle
with the crown jewel thing, I cant even nohit king slime, let alone the other bosses 
thin shale
Well, that could be an additional effect for rage though but I think my take for Rage rework would be dealing more damage ofc (since rage boosts can increase power)but slightly nerfed (25-30% nerf I guess) and increasing DR by 30%(60% in Death Mode) since enraged characters would look like they ignore damage. And also when the rage bar fills in, the player should be granted the wrath and rage buff when the bar’s 66% full. About filling in rage, Rage potions or wrath potions should at least fill in part of the Rage meter (About 20%) since those buffs relate to rage. Additionally, the Rage bar should fill in according to the number of enemies present (25/10000rage per enemy) and this applies to bosses too (125/10000 rage per boss and their minions will not affect the rate of filling the rage meter but other bosses would do).
loud steeple
I think rage should be the offensive one and adrenaline would be the defensive one
rugged mist
why would you need defense as a reward for not getting hit
lost agate
^
thin shale
This isn’t my final script yet
loud steeple
So if you fuck up,you don't fuck up as much
loud steeple
Then maybe as a reward for not fucking up,the next attack that hits you does no damege?
thin shale
I’m also thinking of making Rage unaffected by getting hit once. Maybe make the duration longer and nerf the effects I had shown to compensate
Or maybe add a drawback of using rage
rugged mist
there already is a drawback in that you lose access to absolute rage
void kelp
tbh the fact getting hit while rage is active makes it super not useful as an activated thing
thin shale
I’ll modify my script for now
thin shale
Adrenaline should have increased movement speed too I guess
void kelp
I feel like that actually hurts
thin shale
But nerf the damage slightly to compensate
void kelp
bc it’s like, a reward for not getting hit
lost agate
We discussed that before
Movement speed would only be a disadvantage most of the time
rugged mist
"You managed to not get hit, so here, let's help you not get hit"
void kelp
yeah; it seems counter intuitive for you to get adrenaline which makes it harder for you to not get hit
increased movement speed = more inconsistent movement
lost agate
is ripper rework gonna be the new suggestion train?
terse sundial
i hope not
rugged mist
rippers don't need reworks
void kelp
I hope not
thin shale
Rage Rework:
Rage is not much of a use compared to Adrenaline due to the fact that it is really difficult to fill in the rage bar, especially in early game stages. This can be troublesome for Rev+ since the only thing that players would aim is Adrenaline and to sum things up, Rage is pretty much borderline useless in No-Hit playthroughs since Rage requires getting hit to be filled in(unless the players have prepared a full Rage bar before going to a boss battle but it can only be used once). So here’s my take on how Rage should be modified in order for it to be as reliable as Adrenaline.
-Nerf the Damage and Increase Damage Reduction by 30% (60% in Death Mode) to compensate
-Getting hit once when using Absolute Rage will instead give the player one final blow that deals twice the damage to their enemies instead of the effect neutralized instantly.
-Rage and Wrath potions should be able to fill part of the Rage meter as the potion names suggest it. Profaned Rage and Profaned Wrath potions should be able to do this too but they can fill in the bar at a higher portion.
-When the rage meter is 66% filled, the player should be granted the Rage and Wrath buffs for 4 minutes.
-the Rage bar should fill in according to the number of enemies present (10/10000rage per enemy) and this applies to bosses too (80/10000 rage per boss and their minions will not affect the rate of filling the rage meter but other bosses would do).
void kelp
don’t forget to add “and the upgrades to the rage/wrath potions”
thin shale
Oh yeah
lost agate
I think this could be solved with a simple buff but oh well
thin shale
It’s just that getting the rage bar to fill in is really difficult starting 1.4
lost agate
Then you buff the gain early on
placid moth
There are other mods that actually help you to fill rage though.
You can use those if you really really want it
lost agate
That too
thin shale
What’s the mod name?
placid moth
Drainer from AlchNPC
rugged mist
i think alchemistnpc has a thing
thin shale
Oh
thin shale
I’m not sure if that really works though
After 1.4, I can’t use spikes or traps to fill in Rage, which was what I usually do before fighting a boss.
I suppose I try posting my suggestion to see what the others think.
lost agate
Almost only 1/3 of the damage you get without counting other gear yes
thin shale
Or nerf it
swift bison
i think they meant 60% less DR then what it currently has
lost agate
Rage has DR?
swift bison
doesn't it?
thin shale
I also referenced it to some shows that I watched
ashen warren
really difficult to fill in the rage bar
nothing in the sugg about fixing that
it's still the same issue
hit with trumeme weapon
get hit
thin shale
Enraged characters seem to ignore a portion of damage.
rugged mist
"Seem to" doesnt mean that much and could just be you seeing what you're trying to see
hollow shell
urgh chain suggestion
ashen warren
what's odd to me is rage makes a great deal of sense as-is
it's the whole "hulking out" thing
adr should be the fancy one
hollow shell
Also I think you're getting Absolute Rage confused with the buff you get upon activating the Rage meter
thin shale
Well, Adrenaline makes us very...very energetic (in terms of real life)
hollow shell
The names are confusing, I know
but Absolute Rage is the thing that used to be known as Heart Attack
You just get it randomly when you have a high rage meter
ashen warren
so that's what that is
hollow shell
also
you use exact numbers in your suggestion
This is not recommended because then the conversation becomes a matter of balancing around what you precisely want, versus the concepts of your suggestion
hollow shell
It'd be better to change the numbers into more general approximations
Like
"15% DR" --> "some DR"
"for 4 minutes" --> "for a few minutes" or "temporarily"
or something along those lines
thin shale
Thx for the tip
hollow shell
np
(I still see some stuff that could be generalized further but it's probably fine)
thin shale
I’m modifying it now
quiet abyss
I've read over the suggestion, I'll be giving my inputs one by one
1.) Hmm, this one is somewhat intriguing.
-Increasing DR while rage is active sounds interesting on paper, but it'd pretty much only effect 1 hit so the DR from this should be significant to make up for it.
-Many people already feels that rage's damage boost is not all that good and you're nerfing it further? Even if it's to make up for the 2nd thing it sounds...unnecessary.
2.) You'll be hitting bosses over hundred of times until they're killed. Doubling the damage of only a single hit out of over a hundred is insignificant in the long run, and would feel weak even when using on regular enemies. Smth along the lines of a timer where you're dealing double damage with all hits for a limited time after getting hit during rage would be much better.
3.) There should be a cooldown from getting rage from these potions. Otherwise players will be able to just keep using rage/wrath/profaned rage/holy wrath pots and cancelling the buffs over and over to keep drinking them and filling the rage meter quickly.
4.) Hmm, I'm not sure how to feel about giving players free buffs from potions that don't take that long to craft/make but I suppose it's like a reward for filling the rage meter so I'll let it slide unless I can think of something to criticize this.
5.) This sounds like it's going to be a headache to balance. A cap to this would be needed to make it not so much so. (e.g. the maximum rate of rage gain is at 10 enemies onscreen and won't increase further even if there's more than 10)
@thin shale
odd terrace
Where would one recommend updates/corrections to the wiki?
hollow shell
You can edit the wiki yourself
quiet abyss
You simply go tell wiki people
rugged mist
you could do them yourself couldn't you
quiet abyss
Or ^ what rover said
hollow shell
Unless it's like a major change in which case you can like
ping a Wiki Editor in #general-talk I guess??
rugged mist
it's not very difficult
tho i can see people being intimidated if they dont know what theyre doing
elder mist
not difficult to learn probably, yeah
I don't know how to edit wiki pages myself so if I see something I just tag merk or someone else
hollow shell
Nunuyz were you the guy that edited Galactus Blade's page just now
rugged mist
i dont know gamepedia too well but i have a "little bit" of experience with wikia 
hollow shell
Normal "Edit" button editing on Gamepedia is very simple if you're just doing text/link edits
For anything more complicated than that you should do Edit Source and take a moment to understand how things work there
elder mist
creating new pages is probably the most complicated of the bunch, I assume?
hollow shell
Trying to edit any templates or infoboxes with normal (aka 'Visual') "Edit"ing is just hell
Creating new pages ain't that bad cuz you can just copy everything off of other pages and change the words and numbers to be what you want it to be
rugged mist
images you just upload them and type the filename where it needs to go
at least on wikia idk if its super different on gamepedia
hollow shell
If you're doin an item/enemy page, then those images are automatically chosen based on the page name
You'll get a prompt to upload the file if there is no file under that name already
rugged mist
oh that's scary
elder mist
Interesting
So you just gotta have the item's file saved somewhere and just upload it when prompted
hollow shell
You can choose to show a specific non-auto image tho
elder mist
complications behind complications
hollow shell
which is helpful for pages where you need multiple, like... Magic Scarf and Hat I guess
elder mist
I imagine it's easier to do rather than explain
hollow shell
After you've done it like twice then you've probably got the hang of it already.
elder mist
After getting the hang of it how much do you reckon it takes to make a, say, weapon page from scratch?
gif showing the weapon in-game not included
placid moth
An hour ?
rugged mist
thats way too long of an estimate
if you have the hang of it probably like half an hour at most if its a very in depth weapon
hollow shell
Well you've gotta get the stats somehow
For a Wiki Editor with the source it's easy, but for a normal person you need something like Modder's Toolkit to see the exact internal numbers
Apart from that it's mostly just normal text writing with you describing the function.
Recipes and/or boxes showing what it drops from are pretty much just copy-paste and change the words/numbers around
If you know what to do it's really not hard
hollow shell
You're welcome
fleet night
if it was possible to refill rage with rage potions people could just spam the actual potion, there isnt a cooldown on it or anythin
odd terrace
That was not me
I just noticed that the Community page says that Prov, DoG, and Yharon give twice as much of a stat boost as the others, but Yharon actually gives triple
radiant meadow
does fungal symbiote even affect hammush?
sharp helm
One sec
terse sundial
it doesn't afaik
sharp helm
With it
Without it
It's a small thing though so
But yeah, not one of my better suggestions, but it's been pecking at me for a while so
And yes, I did test it on a dummy. With the accessory, the mushrooms hit twice instead of once.
unique vector
@balmy imp co-op nohitting roles wont be a thing
you can probably speak to @quiet abyss about it but unless we consider it as official nohits they wont be getting any roles
balmy imp
alright
hallow kraken
I don’t really see why a combat accessory should do something special to a tool
It’s a small change, but I think that it’s too small
queen delta
Tbh shroom nohits should have its own role since it makes the fight hard enough even if you get used to it
See: SCal, destroyer, ML, provi, etc
And the fact that only people with chad-like eyes can handle it
civic pond
i feel like it should
frosty kindle
Not sure what to call a role based on that if it even becomes a thing
All i can think of is “Seeing Things”
rugged mist
Have somebody constantly change the roles color as a full time job
frosty kindle
See that would be a fun little idea but that’d make the audit logs fill up VERY fast
civic pond
frequently suggested
rugged mist
Itd also prob confuse the hell out of people
civic pond
also there's a reason they dont combine @lost vigil
the tradeoff for free buffs is an inventory slot
hollow shell
That's in the Don't document, yeah
lost vigil
oh
runic heath
Combining all of them with out being able to turn any off would also be pretty annoying
Permanent less health and less damage anyone?
But yeah the trade off is buffs vs inventory space
supple lodge
Also The Slime God lore effect is godawful
runic heath
Permanent frozen slime
sharp helm
Let's not skip over the Calamitas lore effect.
haughty laurel
The only thing I want changed with more items is having to get them again with a new update
But I understand if that’s something hard to do
loud steeple
Also I believe the devs said they aren't going to make a item that gives all the effects
Since the point of them is to take up a inventory slot for a set of effects
lost agate
You only have to get the lore again this update cuz of namespace changes
It wont happen again most likely
hallow kraken
Also an item with all the effects would have a lot of weird combinations, like with ravager and yharon lore together
tranquil vale
don't forget the less flight time from ravager
hallow kraken
How would yharon and PBG work together, yharon lore but also less regen
fluid stone
wdym slime god lore item is bad
lost agate
You can moonwalk with it smh
fluid stone
it heavily increases horizontal mobility with tracers and allows infinite vdash, op for phm mobility
marble mirage
yeah but the -10 defense hit kinda hurts
fluid stone
not endgame
hollow shell
I'm gonna delete that suggestion because it's in Don'ts (twice, technically)
fluid stone
early game just use it for mobility
post moon lord though
use it up to scal
then get rid
marble mirage
slime god lore is pretty much bootleg burden breaker
fluid stone
it’s good with tracers
fluid stone
it’s 2x faster horizontal mobility
if you want to stand still just take it out of inventory for a sec by selecting it then unselecting
fluid stone
what needs a rework is twins lore
lost agate
Actually, what if, there was actually something that combined all lore, items, yes thats right that includes scal's and yharon's
fluid stone
bruh
lost agate
Its all or nothing
fluid stone
well a lore loot bag might be nice
void kelp
“help my ultimate lore item is instalkilling me”
fluid stone
it takes up too much inv space as of now
void kelp
the fact that lore takes up inventory is part of why it’s powerful
lost agate
Mhm
void kelp
it’s like bonus equipment
fluid stone
eh
imagine how retarded lore items would be if they were consumables
you beat scal but accidentally eat the lore item
marble mirage
mmmmm, tasty words
tired haven
just puke it out smh
ashen warren
Actually, what if, there was actually something that combined all lore, items, yes thats right that includes scal's and yharon's
This but without any negative effects or scal lore effects tbh
sand umbra
dying in one hit isn't a negative effect though
it's just dying in one hit, which doesn't affect you if you don't get hit to begin with
ashen warren
:echmega:
lost agate
Bruh
tired haven
And the opposite, there are lots of scenarios when higher stats ruin your game
So no lore is included in result
ashen warren
:bruh:
small talon
I find it very unnecessary to have them drop from scal in normal mode if you can just craft them
left crest
exactly
sand umbra
my question is why have them drop in the first place given that