suggestions-discussion

[sand umbra]

[proven tide]

source: clock

[radiant pawn]

i know it was a pc vanilla thing, was it removed and wiki never noticed? idfk

[proven tide]

on the plus side this advanced shitpost means i can now use

[radiant pawn]

i remember seeing the moon go at average speed, nights lasted like 7 minutes. And each time you summoned a boss the moon just slowed down to make it 9

I might just be insane dont mind me at this point

[proven tide]

Can someone downgrade or find old vanilla videos to check?

[hollow shell]

Human memory usually sucks

[sand umbra]

I don't feel like time-travelling back to when I first played Terraria to answer that question

because I know for a fact I played it ages ago

[radiant pawn]

same here

[sand umbra]

but then stopped, and never picked it back up in any real capacity until just this past year

when a friend re-introduced me to the game by way of Calamity

and that's how I learned about the glorious world of modded Terraria, which is how I got here

honestly though it doesn't seem like the kinda thing that'd be a...thing?

[queen sail]

I used to wonder how mods would do so much better than vanilla

[sand umbra]

given that there's important stuff that happens during the night

even disregarding boss spawns

[queen sail]

Then i saw that vanilla was just ass in hindsight

[sand umbra]

[queen sail]

Will there ever be a time where vanilla doesn’t shoot itself in the foot

[radiant pawn]

i got introduced to Calamity really long time ago, when Chippy uploaded first season of it. I remember seeing DoG (third sprite) and was like "Wow! now thats fucking hard what the shit-", then didnt hear from it after 2 years

And i discovered how glorious modded Terraria was

[hollow shell]

anyway

[swift bison]

Concept that won't be added: give ele. axe a right click attack where it does melee damage and works as an axe

doesn't summon anything or have any effects

just axe

[radiant meadow]

that'll conflict with minion targetting, won't it?

[swift bison]

right, forgot about that

[sand umbra]

alternate form of Ele. Axe, perhaps?

...I say with the knowledge that the Grax exists

h

[radiant meadow]

imo, grax should be a post prov ele axe "upgrade"

[sand umbra]

...

and now I cannot get the image out of my head

[hollow shell]

ok thank god, I thought you were serious

[sand umbra]

of a fucking flying Grax

[radiant meadow]

I mean I kind of am

[sand umbra]

[queen sail]

Btw

[radiant meadow]

the axe line is really wack as it is

[queen sail]

Are we ever going to address how wack ele axe is

[hollow shell]

Flying Grax would be rad but I don't wanna lose the best axe in the mod atm

[queen sail]

Like logic wise

[radiant meadow]

and upgrade as in buff it and change the recipe

not the mechanics of the weapon

[hollow shell]

If it's an upgrade to Elemental Axe I'm going to assume it's a summon weapon

[sand umbra]

just suddenly summon this bigass fucking axe that flies around and kicks the shit out of everything

...why do I want to see this as an Ele Axe upgrade now

[radiant meadow]

change recipe as in replace feller with ele axe

[sand umbra]

aaaaaa

[radiant meadow]

I mean, you'd expect inferna cutter upgrade to be an axe, but it's not

[sand umbra]

[radiant meadow]

the entire line is full of sidegrades

like axe of purity turning into a true melee weapon

[hollow shell]

Que?

[sand umbra]

with a side of purity sprinkles

and then Inferna Cutter just nixes the middle man and can shoot sparks by default I guess

[hollow shell]

Are you talking about its recent new function or Inferna Cutter?

[radiant meadow]

inferna cutter

[sand umbra]

but is still an axe

and then you have Elemental Axe which isn't actually an axe at all

but rather, a summon weapon that just so happens to create an axe out of thin air

[hollow shell]

oh ffs do Inferna Cutter's on-swing sparks deal damage?

And it's True melee?

[radiant meadow]

yes, they always have

although their dps is pretty abyssmal

[hollow shell]

The name gets more meaningless by the day

[radiant meadow]

it existed before ultimus cleaver

[sand umbra]

ultimus cleaver

[hollow shell]

It did.

Indeed it did.

[radiant meadow]

but going back to Grax, I don't like how Feller of Evergreens makes 2 different axes

I like a more linear line

[sand umbra]

okay but can we talk about how the Feller of Evergreens is literally just a Silver/Tungsten Axe 2

[hollow shell]

Yo alright hear me out:

[sand umbra]

and is obtainable on the exact same tier at the exact same time as the axes it's made from

[hollow shell]

Inferna Cutter crafts into Grax instead of Elemental Axe
and Axe of Purity crafts into Elemental Axe instead

yeah boy now the colors fit hell yeah

[sand umbra]

...you make a compelling case

[radiant meadow]

so like a split tree?

would axe of purity still craft inferna cutter?

[hollow shell]

It's already split down the Feller, why not Axe of Purity instead

[sand umbra]

I like the idea of split crafting trees, tbf
things that give you more of a reason to decide on what you wanna use a thing for

[radiant meadow]

wait, you want two splits?

[proven tide]

that's called materials

[hollow shell]

No cuz Feller would only go into Purity

Inferna would replace Feller in the Grax recipe

[sand umbra]

also
trees that let you decide a little more on what you wanna go for with an upgrade chain

with each side having upsides and downsides

[hollow shell]

But you know what that's gonna result in

"It's too hard to make both"

[sand umbra]

blat?

...that works too

[proven tide]

artificially pad the feller recipe with 2,000 tungsten ore to make the Grax recipe truly p-ML tier

[sand umbra]

[proven tide]

the average double-vein ore planetoid gives, what, 350-500 ore?

[sand umbra]

around that, yeah

[proven tide]

hmm

[sand umbra]

pre-emptive strike:
hi shucks

[proven tide]

pre-emptive shucks: going in for the strike

[lost agate]

remember what i said about changing some items to other classes and then having people complain about consistency, giving ele axe as an example

well i wasnt wrong i suppose

[proven tide]

i've literally never heard anyone complain about inter-class crafting consistency

let alone with the axe line

i've only encountered appreciative nods toward its gimmick

[hollow shell]

... really?

[proven tide]

yeah, nah

[lost agate]

but eh whatever

[proven tide]

i'm probably really lucky

but i only talk in this chat and occasionally gentalk

calmain once in a blue moon

[lost agate]

but yeah this just proves the point i was making the other day

[proven tide]

[sand umbra]

I watch cal talk like a fucking hawk half the time because I like to procrastinate and come to think of it I've never really come across this

so either I'm blind or it doesn't really happen that often

or it just happens while I'm le gasp asleep

which is also a completely reasonable possibility

[proven tide]

toms asleep, post cringe

[lost agate]

also if inferna cutter and cleaver bother you just suggest a change, jesus

[proven tide]

alternately put up with established content like he's doing

do something or don't but stop complaining, 🅱omas

[lost agate]

no not thomas

[proven tide]

🅱omas can also stop complaining

[lost agate]

[proven tide]

because reasons

[sand umbra]

but see here, the reason for mine isn't simply me being shit at the game

[proven tide]

yes it is

redcode is your fault

[sand umbra]

this just in:

[proven tide]

we're off topic

[sand umbra]

I am become Redigit, destroyer of mod compatibilities

also that

[proven tide]

oh god oh fuck

[radiant meadow]

meanwhile, inferna cutter dabs in the background

[sand umbra]

I'll dab back harder

[proven tide]

time to commit

[sand umbra]

[proven tide]

i'ma run before shucks comes in with the

[radiant meadow]

is this emote spam?

[jovial spire]

Dragon Pow is also classified as true melee

[radiant meadow]

it is?

[proven tide]

not any more

[jovial spire]

idk there hasnt been an update in 3 days

[radiant meadow]

I don't recall true melee boosts ever affecting dragon pow

[sand umbra]

the suggs I make are going to get me smited one day, I swear

[proven tide]

is the Ball O' Fugu truememe?

[sand umbra]

no

[lost agate]

i what now?

[jovial spire]

It seems to only effect the acual flail part of it though

[sand umbra]

in fact, BoF and DP are the only two Calamity flails to not be classed as true melee

[jovial spire]

DoG lore increased its damage

[hollow shell]

I'm pretty sure Dragon Pow actually is or at least was true melee

[sand umbra]

[jovial spire]

So must be a DoG lore bug then

[lost agate]

it is true melee rn yes

[proven tide]

what about the urchin flail

[lost agate]

most flail are so maybe it was made for consistency

[proven tide]

iirc it throws projectiles

[hollow shell]

I'm pissed

[lost agate]

oh cmon

[proven tide]

About flail truememe?

[jovial spire]

If anything them being true melee adds more inconsistancy than anything else ngl

[sand umbra]

I think it actually has something to do with the line between true melee and everything-else melee, as I mentioned in my sugg, being incredibly blurry at this point

[radiant meadow]

does dog lore also boost the damage of spears like stream gouge and banshee hook?

[jovial spire]

didnt test those

[sand umbra]

I dunno though, I'm not a true melee guy personally

[queen delta]

So in that case, scal true melee is technically possible

[radiant meadow]

at least, it's more consistent that before

[sand umbra]

Ultimus Cleaver in particular just bothers me because it's a true melee-classed weapon that is very blatantly not true melee

[radiant meadow]

true melee used to be extremely inconsistent

[queen delta]

“Technically” because i dont consider dragon pow true melee

[hollow shell]

Rather
it used to not apply to spears and flails

[proven tide]

i'm okay with onhit projectile spam for truememe, such as ata and earth, but actually throwing projectiles yes haha flails are projectiles and still being truememe is

questionable

[radiant meadow]

it did when you built rage

because 3 definitions of true melee :hmmmm:

[sand umbra]

[lost agate]

3?

ok now wtf am i missing here

[sand umbra]

true melee is performed by performing true melee, yes

this is a perfect definition by yours truly

[proven tide]

er

[sand umbra]

[lost agate]

true melee is literally only swords then

so go figure

[proven tide]

.

[fervent zealot]

true melee is melee you hit people with

[proven tide]

you do know spears exist

[fervent zealot]

not melee you projectile spam with

[lost agate]

spears are projectiles

[fervent zealot]

only by technicality

[radiant meadow]

counter scarf, silva/bloodflare melee armor, and rage building

those were the 3 definitions

each one was procced by different stuff

[lost agate]

so wtf then, how do you define what true melee is when half of the things are actually projectiles

flails are projectiles, spears are projectiles

[proven tide]

true melee isn't "any projectile is bad"

bruv

[jovial spire]

Flails still count

[sand umbra]

a sword is, by technicality, also a projectile of sorts
if you really wanna get technical about it

[proven tide]

true melee is you have to be within range of hitting with the weapon itself, and only be able to hit with the weapon itself

[jovial spire]

So do spears

[sand umbra]

the difference is that that projectile is bound to the player

[radiant meadow]

the definition of true melee is still kinda complex

[hollow shell]

I don't think swords are projectiles, no.

[lost agate]

no thomas

[radiant meadow]

it uses usestyles, and detecting shoot methods

[hollow shell]

Then again I haven't looked at the supreme backend of Terraria source

so maybe they are

but I doubt it

[lost agate]

spears and flails are LITERALLY projectiles on code

[radiant meadow]

as well as an exclusion list to prevent yoyos

[proven tide]

it doesn't matter what's going on coding-wise regarding what the weapon technically is, it's generally defined by how the player has to use it

[jovial spire]

Real question is, if flails count as true melee, why do non projectile yoyos not

[sand umbra]

you don't hold a yo-yo while it's hitting shit

[hollow shell]

Because flails are harder to use and needed a win :P

[proven tide]

if the spear is long and wide enough to take up the screen, it's a huge projectile meme, but still true melee by the fucked definition of hitting with only the original weapon itself

because

[lost agate]

see

its just absurdly confusing to define

[proven tide]

it's

quite simple

[sand umbra]

realistically yo-yos aren't really melee at all and quite frankly don't fit into any one class, they're only in melee because you can't really put them anywhere else

...well
anywhere else that's going to exist for more than the next couple months

[proven tide]

if you have nothing to hit the enemy with but the weapon itself, it's true melee

[lost agate]

if its big it aint true melee but is at the same time

[sand umbra]

the death of throwing still makes me pensive

[jovial spire]

I mean you also aren't holding the acual flail either

[proven tide]

nobody said it isn't true melee if it's big

[lost agate]

you did

[hollow shell]

You just did

[proven tide]

i'm saying it's ridiculous but is true melee

never said it isn't but is

[hollow shell]

You said that the definition is "fucked"

[wary flume]

Magic yoyos 🤔

[proven tide]

it's just stupid that it is

[hollow shell]

Should a giant spear not be true melee?

[proven tide]

no

that'd just be headache-inducing

[hollow shell]

(fuck double negative)

Should it be true melee?

[sand umbra]

yes

[wary flume]

It should be

[proven tide]

it'd be stupid consistency but consistency nonetheless

so yes

[sand umbra]

because it's a giant spear that presumably doesn't shoot anything

[proven tide]

true melee doesn't mean close, just the weapon is all you have

[wary flume]

what?

[lost agate]

see thats the issue, consistency

[hollow shell]

Yes, this is true

I would not describe it as "stupid consistency"

[proven tide]

mourningstar isn't a close-range weapon but it is true melee

[lost agate]

what may be for consistency might break the definiton

[proven tide]

iirc

[lost agate]

:emotion:

[wary flume]

It is a flail I wouldn't call that true melee

It has similar properties to a yoyo with less control

[sand umbra]

okbuddy

[jovial spire]

It is true melee though, game counts it as so

[proven tide]

the definition that 'true melee' classifications go by is if it's just the weapon and no extra effects around it, it's truememe

[wary flume]

mmk

[proven tide]

doesn't matter if it's the sword of the universe

it's truememe

[lost agate]

see, now we have we people disagreeing if a flail is or isnt true melee

[proven tide]

that's because haze is wrong

[lost agate]

the definition is contradictory af

[wary flume]

What has this even started from lol

[jovial spire]

They get true melee bonuses and generates rage when you hit something

[proven tide]

the definition is not contradictory, just has arbitrary limits

if just weapon, truememe

if extra, no

necessitating being melee in the first place, of course

[lost agate]

and how do you know what the limits are if they are arbitrary

[proven tide]

the limits are above

[sand umbra]

...do I just have a cursed knack for starting arguments in here at this point

[proven tide]

yes

[lost agate]

when do you decide "oh this isnt true melee" if the limit is arbitrary

[sand umbra]

I swear this is like every conversation I enter becoming about yo-yos but worse because everybody's at everybody's throats

a

[hollow shell]

It's intuitive, Korbee Shucks
Name something that you would consider to be on the verge

[proven tide]

^

it gets to a point where it feels daft but is still perfectly logical if daftly so

[lost agate]

a weapon whose power comes from true melee but has projectiles on swing

[proven tide]

that's truemelee

[lost agate]

is it now

[hollow shell]

Read closely Vetus please

[proven tide]

because the damage necessitates hitting with the weapon and only the weapon

[lost agate]

because we literally have a suggestion contradicting that

[hollow shell]

Shuck's example would not be true melee.

[lost agate]

it only does well if you hit with the blade

[proven tide]

i read on swing as meaning on hit i am brain

[lost agate]

so would you consider that true melee or at least true melee oriented?

[proven tide]

[sand umbra]

true melee oriented, perhaps, but not necessarily true melee

[hollow shell]

If Grand Guardian spit out a tiny Wand of Sparking spark every time you swing it,
it should not be True melee.

[sand umbra]

insert Inferna Cutter meme

[proven tide]

what rover said because i misread the last word the first time

if using the weapon produces anything that isn't the weapon itself, anything at all, it's not truemelee

[lost agate]

well what bothers me here is that people are being pissed over the fact a sword has a projectile that barely does a thing

[proven tide]

"people" thomas

[lost agate]

it can be changed in like 2 minutes why get angry

[proven tide]

i don't think anyone's angry here

[hollow shell]

Will it get changed

[lost agate]

if you insist yes

[proven tide]

not a good message to give to whitenames tbh

[sand umbra]

...I
wasn't angry in the first place?

[proven tide]

angrily insist and yes, it'll happen

[lost agate]

not you thomas

[hollow shell]

That is a bit of a fine line, yeah

[sand umbra]

[proven tide]

so who on earth was being angry

[hollow shell]

"it can be easily changed so don't get angry, but it will only get changed if you insist"

[lost agate]

sors literally said "im pissed"

[hollow shell]

I'm not tryin to call you out or whatever I'm just sayin
the implications are a bit bad

[lost agate]

no i meant

[proven tide]

rover was irritated by dp being a shit meme

that was it

[lost agate]

ack

[hollow shell]

and yes I am pissed that true melee is being played so loosely in Calamity at the moment

[proven tide]

[lost agate]

ok gimme just a goddamn minute

[proven tide]

oh fuck i realised i've left a loophole in my truememe definition

thrown spears

daybreak n that technically fit the criteria but aren't truemelee

[hollow shell]

All rogue weapons are now True melee :P

[proven tide]

🅱over no

[lost agate]

slams head on desk

[hollow shell]

(except Crushsaw Crasher)

(and Bone Glove, which is throwing but still)

[sand umbra]

throwing? what's that

sounds like a bad meme

[proven tide]

shucks no you've got few enough brain cells to begin with

[sand umbra]

ranged is better

[lost agate]

ok, look, what i meant by that, it that shit wont change if you dont even try to change it

[proven tide]

[lost agate]

just "oh now im angry" wont. do . shit

[proven tide]

thankfully nobody was being angry and nothing else

[hollow shell]

except me cuz I'm pissed

[proven tide]

rover was being angry and plotting an agenda

[lost agate]

but whatever if it bothers you that fucking much i can get it done tomorrow

another thing to the list i suppose

[hollow shell]

Sorry if we're piling shit on you, Shucks

Not my intention

(I didn't know that thing I sprited in the dev server would be as problematic as Ozz described)

[proven tide]

(wott thing )

[hollow shell]

(speelorz, but Shucks knows what I'm talking about)

[proven tide]

hypothetical progress

damn 😔

[sand umbra]

and now I'm going to wonder what that something is for the rest of however long this update takes

gdi

[proven tide]

and probably forever, because from the sounds of it it's not going to get off the floor

[sand umbra]

Merk hasn't even started with the subtle update teasers yet and I'm already mildly excited

h

anywho I'm gonna go before whatever crazy idea I have next starts some kind of argument

and also because it's midnight, I've had a headache all day, and I should probably go to sleep

bye for now I guess

[hollow shell]

cya Tommy

[quick ice]

There are teasers for the updates here?

[hollow shell]

Nah

not yet

Well, except the images in #mod-announcements

[quick ice]

I only recall seeing the Moonlord Rev teaser and Sulphorous Sea teasers for any updates

[proven tide]

shine and night owl to omniscience

Hmm. While I agree that it would be a greater utility potion that way, it doesn't quite fit the Omniscience theme; it's no longer simply knowing a bunch, because of the extra effects.

I reckon it'd be better to blend the builder, mining, shine, and night owl effects into another potion, but that'd be a specific item suggestion, so...

:/

[ashen warren]

I don't think so, since Shine and Night Owl actually make your sight increase, and know more around you.

They fit to Omniscience's theme a lot, imo

[proven tide]

Well, yes, but it's not simply through knowing

You rely on effects external to your own big brain

unless it's literally

glowing big brain

[radiant pawn]

Your big brain glows

[radiant pawn]

adding to my suggestion
The slime shots at long distances arent bad, both the slime and the arrows hit
The problem is at short distances

[uneven magnet]

So, are there ever going to be more super bosses or a whole new tier of bosses(post-post moon lord)? I really hope there will be and they should call a new tier of bosses calamity mode.

[night cradle]

Yes, there will be
Not very soon though

[uneven magnet]

What will be added soon then?

[night cradle]

Well, there's the Rogue update worked on currently
There may be a Draedon update after that but I'm not sure
Either way it'll still take a lot of time to make bosses

[elfin swan]

The current plan is after yharon: Draedon, Scal (demoted to regular boss), Yharim, then the superbosses noxus and xeroc iirc

[placid moth]

I think Perfs is fine in its current state right now

[elfin swan]

So...shield of Cthulhu

[uneven magnet]

Sort of, but more tiers for it and its own class. I would personally play this if it was a thing

[tired haven]

This kind of a class sounds more like a bloat melee subclass

[elfin swan]

That's already a thing Actually, in the form of the shield accessories

[sand umbra]

sounds like something I already have plans to expand a little upon

[tired haven]

Shamefully, there is only this much you can do with shields

[uneven magnet]

It still would be a very cool class in my opinion if it was fleshed out.

[sand umbra]

okay but like
not everything needs to be its own class

[elfin swan]

Later forms of shield accessories, while also being invaluable to some- also grant a dash that does kind of exactly what you just said

[sand umbra]

in fact, I'd argue it's some of the closest stuff you get to actual melee accessories

[uneven magnet]

Oh, ok

[terse sundial]

if it isn't going to be changed, i'll remove it

[uneven magnet]

Well, of course, it is just a suggestion

[elfin swan]

Also class suggestions are on the don'ts list

[terse sundial]

^

[uneven magnet]

Oh, oops, sorry

Didn’t see that

[hollow shell]

@ashen warren Provide reasons why in your suggestion.

[ashen warren]

Sorry for that, I really thought I had Shift pressed.

Finished suggestion properly, I hope.

[placid moth]

I think the fact that the significantly larger amount of damage that Perfs do, especially the large worm, makes up for the simple patterns.

Yeah.

[brazen bramble]

I like the idea of them spawning from the hive, that makes more sense

[hollow shell]

I also like that idea

It doesn't have that much to do with making them easier to cheese
or, maybe it does, cuz they drop down from above you and form a wall for a lil bit

but I just like the idea of them spawning from the hive

[queen sail]

So uh

Why don’t scal’s monster orbs despawn during the acceptance phase again

[lost agate]

[queen sail]

You can’t say difficulty or anything because it’s literally just going in a circle

And by that point she’s done attacking you

Also haha yes i love it when i’m supposed to be reading dialogue as 4 balls of death are chasing my ass nonstop

:ech:

[lost agate]

Mood

[zenith hazel]

is this frequently suggested?

[hollow shell]

Very.

[hollow idol]

yup

[hollow shell]

Lemme check if the bluechecks were for a source from this year

[lost agate]

Why are all your suggestion in such an agressive tone i swear :ech:

[hollow idol]

last one was a month ago

[hollow shell]

They are quite aggressive

[tired haven]

It is also quite personalized ngl

[queen sail]

Well it has been suggested for several months now

[lost agate]

[queen sail]

It’s an annoying part of the fight at a point where you’re pretty much done

There’s no real difficulty in it either so

Why is it still a thing

[lost agate]

You know how people need to slow down after running a lot instead of just flat out stopping
Kind of like that

[queen sail]

That’s a weird analogy ngl

[lost agate]

You dodge so much shit, everything is exploding, sepulcher darts everywhere

Then bam, everything stops

Instanteniously

[sand umbra]

except not because there's still that one Secondpulcher dart in existence that snipes you at 1% probably

[lost agate]

Yeah but you can dodge it easily af

If theres no moons pressuring you

[hallow kraken]

That has been requested like 20 times here, I’m honestly surprised that they still don’t do that

[lost agate]

Nobody said that part was meant to be difficult

Its just so you stay alert

[hollow shell]

Why would you need to stay alert?

[queen sail]

For what? She’s not gonna do anything else except die in a few seconds

[hollow shell]

It's the end of the fight and she's monologuing

If there was another bullet hell afterward then it'd make sense

[lost agate]

Well idk im not the one who made the fight tbf

[hollow shell]

Okay

[queen sail]

This seems more like an oversight

[lost agate]

There has to be a reason if still hasnt been done

[queen sail]

plaguenades

[lost agate]

?

[hollow shell]

It's entirely possible that the words haven't reached the devs enough

That it's a big suggestions thing but not a big dev server thing

[queen sail]

If it was a last desperation attack (like Mutant or SD Soul OS) then I’d be perfectly fine

[lost agate]

Anywho, regardless of if theres a legit reason they still exist or smth, it still bothers me how you have been wording suggestions so harshly as of recently

[hallow kraken]

But if Scal was accepting her fate, then she wouldn’t use a final desperation attack

[queen sail]

Only time I went aggressive was the Profaned Guardians suggest tbh

And that’s because they were living filler probably since they existed

Well, when the non consumable Profaned Core was added anyways

[lost agate]

Yeah but this is #suggestions-voting not #demands

[queen sail]

And apparently they weren’t going to get much else

[tired haven]

Consumable core didn't make them any less of a filler ngl

More of a chore, however

[lost agate]

Also guardians literally just got new things this update

The spear patterns alternate and they become faster the lower the hp is

[queen sail]

Because otherwise they just exist for one moment and then you farm hallow/hell for a few more minutes

Okay but that’s not really the point

[lost agate]

Then what

They last what a minor boss should

[queen sail]

The sentinels and bumblebirb at least something to keep them worth fighting

The guardians used to but it gets filled out if you grind for a while

[lost agate]

But the option is there

And you know absurd they get if they manage to get close to you?

The first 2 guardians slingshot you if they get close and the main one tries to eat your ass if youre below him

And if its about loot, fucken mechs dont have any direct weapon drops either, they are all just materials

[queen sail]

Which is used to craft stuff?

Same like effulgent feathers and armored shells (and the like)

[lost agate]

Well yes but have you looked at how much stuff is there pre provi for say, ranged

[queen sail]

13 ranged weps, 16 melee weps, 12 magic weps, 4 summon weps, 2(?) rogue weps

Went to the wiki and counted weapons for each class roughly between ml and provi

So that includes crafted weapons, ml drops, and birb drops respectively

Summon weps are memes, and rogue is currently in the middle of being fleshed out

Regardless they really need more essence to them

If they are a gateway boss, you might as well make them more consistent with the other gateway bosses

They are the only listed progression boss that don’t really have a reason to be fought more than once

[hoary hinge]

Kirby I fought SCal in multi recently and during Acceptance the balls of death stop following and fall down as if they're affected by gravity - I don't think this was a bug

[queen sail]

Last time i fought her (which was yesterday, was memeing around with SoE and got bored) the balls still chased

I can’t say anything for multiplayer because i don’t do multiplayer so :peeposhrug:

[hoary hinge]

Im going to assume we're both updated...

[queen sail]

Yep

[clear basin]

Titanite that's weird because I haven't seen anyone have that issue

[carmine spindle]

Definitely think having the orbs despawn is a good idea

like he said, people would wanna read that overly dramatic splash text rather than getting pursued by 4 giant orbs with the potential to instakill you

[queen delta]

I’m thinking of a suggestion to change up bh5 a bit

Buff BH5 but have the moons fade out of existence for the entirety of bh5 and come back when it ends?

[lost agate]

Last Moons spawn on bh5 so...

And why would you buff bh5

[frail mantle]

meme channel
opinion: no

[sand umbra]

pls no meme~chan

[bitter topaz]

@west mountain no.

[west mountain]

Yes

Why not

[bitter topaz]

because there's no need.

[frail mantle]

something something hell to moderate

also ^

[west mountain]

How

You can make it nsfw

I need the world to see my memes

[bitter topaz]

we're still people

[frail mantle]

this server had a meme channel at one point, but it proved way too stressful to moderate iirc

[hollow idol]

something something we had a meme channel for one day and it was god awful

[bitter topaz]

just because the channel would be nsfw doesn't bloody well relieve us of our job

[west mountain]

Okay I understand

[bitter topaz]

and we infact have had one before.
and it was as disasterous as you'd expect

[lost agate]

[west mountain]

True with like what

40000 members?

I can see how that would be stressful

[hollow idol]

Well it was back when offtopic was a thing so not nearly as many as now

seeing how many members we have now compared to then

[queen sail]

Last time we had an offtopic it became hell on earth

Just do with the general channels for now

[zealous ridge]

Alright, real quick i've got a suggestion and i would like some feedback

Hyperius Bullet Rework
There are a lot of filler bullets in this mod that seem redundant and seldom used due to their properties being shameful compared to superior vanilla or calamity options. There are quite a few bullets I would love to talk about, but today I want to highlight a particularly disappointing bullet in my eyes that I think could do for a rework, due to it's sheer lack of use despite it being made out of a relatively high-tier material.

Hyperius bullets aren't the best right now. Acid rounds are arguably better despite them being in the same tier, and terra bullets still outpreform both. Hyperius suffers from an identity crisis as well, seeing as it's effect is based off of the Conference Call from borderlands, which already has several homages in the forms of actual weapons. And, to top it off, the random Sans reference in it's tooltip makes little to no sense, and seems to be present only as a joke.

I think an ammo type made of bars of life has more dignity than this. I recommend a full overhaul to how the bullet works, not only to make it better statistically, but also mechanically.

How it could be changed
Shoot out three differently-colored flame pulses on death that spin around the projectile's death point. Shortly after spawning, each flame explodes, with each color inflicting a different debuff. (blue - Glacial state, green - Plague, red - Brimstone flames)

This effect may be an interesting way to incorporate the three elements used to craft the bar into the bullet's effect. However, this is only an example and devs are free to make an effect that they think would work better.

[frail mantle]

Iirc Hyperius Bullets tooltip isn’t a Sans reference

[zealous ridge]

is it not? that's what the wiki says...

i think

might say "may be a sans reference" ill check

[sand umbra]

The "your enemies might have a bad time" is a reference to the character Sans from Undertale.

one step ahead of you

h

[zealous ridge]

yeah there it is

[frail mantle]

Huh

I remember the wiki saying it was a reference to something else

[sand umbra]

honestly I often forget Hyperius Bullets exist

[zealous ridge]

may just be simple misrememberance, it references multiple things kind of

yeah, it sucks that people forget it exists. i would love to see it gain some relevance by actually being good or at least interesting

[hollow shell]

(Its possible that it actually is a reference to something else, but somebody added that to the wiki assuming it was a Sans reference)

[zealous ridge]

mm i see

[hollow shell]

Could be something from Borderlands, I wouldn't know

[swift bison]

Onyxia + hyperius is hella good against yharon just saying

[zealous ridge]

really? never heard of that strat

[swift bison]

huh

interesting

onyxia+holy fire gave me about 40k for yharon
buy onyxia+hyperius gave me like 60k, it was crazy the change

[queen delta]

Does AotC not have any buffs in space?

[vague karma]

except dryad's blessing, no

(also terrarian's balls but that just sounds hilarious)

[karmic stone]

I would've expected you to complain about the fragments being hard to come up with, specially since it's for making an item to summon a sand storm, that requires a material only available in that same sandstorm

But no, the bars are the problem

[queen sail]

Shouldn’t they also get buffs for being abyss or piss— i mean mouthwash sea

[vague karma]

yeah they kinda should

[formal cobalt]

I did talk about the Fragments problem at the end

[queen sail]

They’re pretty big biomes

[vague karma]

but that needs to be added to other biome blades

so yeah

[karmic stone]

You didn't?

Or am i blind

[formal cobalt]

The ability to summon a sandstorm exists for convenience's sake, but it's not as good when you need to wait for a sandstorm to summon it anyway.

[karmic stone]

Oh ok, didn't relate that to the fragments

But anyway, ⭐

[vague karma]

here, a golden star for you

[formal cobalt]

I edited it to make it more clear

[hollow idol]

well Earth elems drop it

[lost agate]

P90 + hyperius bullets was also a god af combo iirc

And like, you can use hyperius on provi cuz shes that big

[formal cobalt]

Earth elementals are also somewhat rare, being a mini-boss and all

[vague karma]

maybe, except armored digger is a mini boss too

[sand umbra]

Earth elementals are also somewhat rare

[vague karma]

and he just can't stop spawning when I'm farming mimics

[sand umbra]

see that's the thing

Earth Elementals are big fat bullies when you first enter Hardmode and are ass to deal with while they steal all your lunch money

but then later on when you actually want them to show up, they're nowhere to be found

[hollow idol]

maybe a spawnrate buff post mechs?

[sand umbra]

it's like finding Atlases for Deuces, I swear

[vague karma]

to armored diggers? no. to earth thicc gladiator? yes.

[smoky wagon]

Their spawn rates are fine

I have never had a lack of arid artifacts in late hardmode

[lost agate]

Yes, how easy it is to get them is basically subjective

One person may have good luck, another one may not

Thats how rng be

Which is also why getting stuff like marrow can be a bitch or an easy task

[hollow shell]

I have a suggestion:
Remove RNG from the game

[lost agate]

[hollow shell]

Make all "1 out of X times" calculations actually be counters, so they always occur on the Xth time and no other time

[lost agate]

You know that screws even with visuals right

[hollow shell]

ok what if it only applied to item drops

[civic pond]

remove RNG?

Impossible

[lost agate]

Then GL changing over a thousand times

[hollow shell]

Thanks I'll need it.

[lost agate]

And remaking the reforge system and removing dmg variance and-

If you wanna remove part of the essence of the game, then your call

[hollow shell]

m

would remove playthrough variety
and mid-playthrough interesting elements

[lost agate]

Basically killing replayability yes

[ashen warren]

There’s no indication that would kill replayability

People don’t replay the mod to get shafted by rng, they do it for the experience, the class playthroughs etc

[hollow shell]

idk, there are games that are replayable that don't have much or any RNG

This is an empty argument cuz I was pretty much joking though

[lost agate]

If everything happen exactly the same in every run then it would

[hollow shell]

Sorry for spawning something

[civic pond]

Personally I think it wouldn't hurt to remove some RNG

[lost agate]

Fun fact, hive mind is partially rng

But yeah figured it was a joke

[hollow shell]

All bosses are partially rng

[lost agate]

Yeah

[runic heath]

increase spawn rate of earth elementals post mechs
please no. I already get harassed by armored diggers a lot, and those earth elementals harass nearly as often

[civic pond]

@ashen warren Add a reason why

and the suggestion is pretty blank

[proven tide]

@ashen warren the lance is a stabby spear, not a thrown one

iirc

[radiant meadow]

why would spears get rogue variants?

[proven tide]

okay coool

[ashen warren]

:ech: i know but it throws a projectile

[civic pond]

oh yes

"javelins"

[proven tide]

oh no

That's what the game calls them, that's right

[karmic stone]

Add a reason

[radiant meadow]

a lot of stuff throw a projectile

[proven tide]

Okay, so, yes, it produces a projectile; but the projectile isn't thrown, it's sent from the weapon.

[ashen warren]

I know

🤡

[radiant meadow]

but it's highly uncharacteristic for a spear to have a rogue variant

[proven tide]

If the projectile was the entire spear yeeted, like the North Pole, it would be viable for Rogue

But as it is now it acts solely as a melee weapon and as such does only melee damage

elemental javelin when

[karmic stone]

@ashen warren Can you don't

[proven tide]

time for another <ping> add a reason

[radiant meadow]

why do we need elemental daggers?

[proven tide]

That works too

[civic pond]

wha

[ashen warren]

[sand umbra]

aren't there a shitload of new rogue weapons coming in the next update

[radiant meadow]

I don't see a point

[proven tide]

Do try not to request content for its own sake.

[ashen warren]

What kind of death loop is this

[civic pond]

how about discussing the suggestion here first

[proven tide]

Also yeah that

[karmic stone]

Who is starring this

[sand umbra]

which is probably going to be shipped in about a week

h

[ashen warren]

ok boomer

[radiant meadow]

there's already at least 2 new weapons for pre prov tier that are coded iirc

[proven tide]

himself, the bot, and another

and that's not including the existing elemental rogue weapon

[ashen warren]

Wait

[radiant meadow]

or stellar contempt

[proven tide]

that's true

[sand umbra]

yeah there's Stellar Contempt

[ashen warren]

What do you mean there's an elemental rouge weapon

[sand umbra]

and the rogue weapon literally everyone cares about perhaps too much

Elemental "Donut Deleter" Disk

[karmic stone]

Elemental disk

[ashen warren]

:ech:

[proven tide]

okay, here's a suggestion

Okay suggestion as in ideas for future not as in #suggestions-voting-style sugge— you know what, who cares

[ashen warren]

calameme

[proven tide]

Before making a #suggestions-voting sugg, it's best to scout out the area you're seeking change in. Check what items might fill a certain niche, what's available for what boss, experiment with the balancing first, etc. before making a call as to whether it needs a change.

[sand umbra]

^

[proven tide]

That way you a) get a bit more contextual awareness and b) don't get tripped up by half a dozen others pinging you and saying that's been done

[ashen warren]

ok boomer

🤡

[sand umbra]

and if it's a change to an existing item, do research on the item beforehand and understand how it compares to others of its classification and/or tier
same if it's a change to an existing boss --- analyze how its current mechanics challenge the player, and see if there's anything one will likely consider unfair

[ashen warren]

Wtf is this pasted spooktober

[proven tide]

Also, the checking process often involves #changelogs

[hollow shell]

@ashen warren You should add reasons to your suggestions
and also, a rogue update is coming soon, so there will be new rogue weapons in that tier

[ashen warren]

:ech:

[hollow shell]

You can delete one of em and edit the other to be more extensive & valid

or if you don't wanna do that, you can delete both and wait till after the rogue update to see how the situation looks then.

[ashen warren]

"em" atleast edit it to ech

[proven tide]

just

don't give it the oxygen, guys.

[karmic stone]

Are...
Are you going to do it?

[ashen warren]

Who said I needed oxygen?

[civic pond]

Wuh oh i smell a degenerating convo

[ashen warren]

🤡

[hollow shell]

Lemme know if/when you're gonna edit it

[sand umbra]

I smell the same scent, doge

pre-emptive

[civic pond]

If you aren't going to change these suggestions to actual well thought out ones then i suggest deleting them

[sand umbra]

[civic pond]

🏃

[ashen warren]

ok delete time i guess bomr

[hollow shell]

Aight

[proven tide]

elemental daggers specific item

[ashen warren]

stop crossing out your messages 🤡

[brittle merlin]

Stop using the clown emote

countered

[ashen warren]

:echprimebegone:

[proven tide]

vamp, don't invest effort

[radiant meadow]

please do try and keep on topic here

[proven tide]

this isn't going anywhere

[brittle merlin]

Ok shall do Ben

[ashen warren]

Give me nitro so i can use an ech emote

[brittle merlin]

[proven tide]

@ashen warren however, if the armour (like, say, an ore armour) shows the player's face and hands...

[ashen warren]

then the entire player model goes invisible

will edit

thanks for mentioning that

[lost agate]

I never had the player show through the armor

May be a weird bug

[spiral olive]

It’s happened to me a few times, it’s a visual error

Not sure what causes it specifically, could be dyes or some vanity slots

But it’s intended to make you fully translucent

whoopsie almost 2 hours late there gj me

[warm tinsel]

About the custom achievements... Have you guys tried to code a bit around with AchievementLibs?

Ah NVM it's WIP

[queen delta]

Perhaps make it so the biome on initial hit isnt as big

Cuz the biome is extremely big on impact to make up for it not spreadinf

[proven tide]

IIRC this is a ☑ but I'm going to slap the star because it's still just as logical an idea as always

however, while I'm not sure about the details, I think something something biome spread memes something something redcode

[quiet abyss]

iirc Fabsol didn't make the biome spread because the biome spreading is an annoying mechanic.
There's already corruption/crimson and hallow, adding one more into this would be annoying to manage.

[smoky wagon]

Its an annoying mechanic that is tedious to code

So it wont happen

[hearty yew]

it's already been coded

it already can happen

spreading is coded and commented out

astral spread should be a config option

defaulting to false

that's what i would change that suggestion to @ripe wing

"Allow Astral biome to spread if a player sets a config option"

[queen sail]

But then again who wants spreading biomes

They’re just an annoying way to force biomes to be relevant

[sand umbra]

a lot of people who aren't in this discord, more than likely

and even a fair wealth who are, if the several suggestions regarding this exact subject are anything to go by

[lost agate]

But then again who wants spreading biomes
Literally a guy suggesting it

[sand umbra]

[hollow shell]

This has been a relatively common suggestion

[lost agate]

Yeah

[hollow shell]

Having a default false config option seems logical to me

(especially if the code already exists)

[sand umbra]

I agree, tbf

I've always been intrigued by the idea myself

[smoky wagon]

Was it coded before it was decided to not be implemented?

[queen sail]

Like okay but do you honestly want to deal with something that relogic forgot about

[smoky wagon]

Forgot about what?

[queen sail]

Spreading biomes

[smoky wagon]

I dont think they forgot about it

Its a very intentional feature

[queen sail]

It was built up to be a major part of Terraria when 1.1 released before deciding to bloat the jungle

And there hasn’t really been much added to it since besides one or two new enemies and the biome mimics

[sand umbra]

friendly note that you go to the Jungle, which spreading biomes can overtake, for what are two progression-necessary bosses in a row in vanilla

Corruption and Crimson being able to overtake Jungle is bruh to me

that's my only dog in this fight

[queen sail]

Hallow memes

Also why is hallow dead

[sand umbra]

implying there's not someone working to fix that

[queen sail]

That’s why you exist thomas

[sand umbra]

although yeah, vanilla hallow is pretty pointless

[queen sail]

You are our chosen one (and the other guy but he’s golden poopoo)

[smoky wagon]

How does making astral spread relate to the other biomes

[sand umbra]

because if it is a thing, one thing I'd be concerned about

is whether or not AI~chan will eat the Jungle or other important biomes if they exist near her

[queen sail]

Because people don’t go to biomes to make sure they won’t fuck up the world

We’re there to grind

[sand umbra]

again, that is my only even remotely relevant issue with this

[elfin swan]

Jungle spawns next to corruption: guess I just lose

[queen sail]

Also the jungle issue

Because corrupted jungle is omega meme

[sand umbra]

and given that AI~chan prefers the Dungeon side, I'd even argue it's not too terribly much to worry about

but it is something to account for, just in case

[queen sail]

Actually they probably did that on purpose thomas

[sand umbra]

actually yeah
that's probably why AI prefers Dungeon side in the first place

because spreading biomes taking over Jungle is omega fat

[queen sail]

Bc the devs would know how much of a meme it is for the biome with 40% of the mod’s content to be infected

[sand umbra]

the biome with a literal progression-necessary boss that has the biome in his name

[elfin swan]

"Astral infection~chan" is cursed
On the note of the evils spreading, can't we just stop them from being able to concert mud, or make a corrupt/crimson jungle

[sand umbra]

"Astral infection~chan" is cursed

[queen sail]

Probably a redcode thing

[sand umbra]

you're cursed

[elfin swan]

I know I am

[sand umbra]

also, redcode exists

[elfin swan]

Damn

[sand umbra]

and redcode for biome spreading

yeah there are things even I will not stare down the barrel for the purpose of making them actually decent

this is one of them

currently

if, in the future, my plans necessitate it, then. well, we can cross that bridge when we get there

the point is, biome spreading is ass normally because 2/3 spreading biomes can eat the Jungle

[elfin swan]

So is this why you should just surround jungle with hallow

[void kelp]

an astral infection spread config that defaults to false seems like the best solution for this

[fervent zealot]

why would you want something that can spread and devour theoretically all biomes though

[void kelp]

because people are stupid

[elfin swan]

ice

[fervent zealot]

astral ice

[void kelp]

same reason why they’re happy to have corruption/crimson fuck up their jungles

[elfin swan]

The power of snow beats all

[void kelp]

I feel like as a default thing a spreading astral infection sounds terrible

[elfin swan]

Yeah you should be able to disable it

[void kelp]

maybe like

if infection spread is on it’s only up to a certain amount of infected blocks greater than the amount that would generate normally

[elfin swan]

Defeating aureus makes it spread faster then beating Deus makes it spread slower

[night cradle]

SCal isn't very hard to damage honestly, even if she goes through blocks it's very likely that she'll return back quickly

[small talon]

Calamitas follows you, the only reason it's outside the box is because you led it there, unless there were recent changes

[ashen warren]

I still think she shouldn't be able to leave the box since I generally spend most of the battle on the bottom of the box

[hollow idol]

maybe its about her being outside when she hits 1%

[ashen warren]

thats also true

but I haven't experienced her leaving the box in the ending yet

[hollow idol]

I have a few times but I am casual so I had rod or norm relocator

[void kelp]

because she doesn’t go outside the box normally

she sits at the bottom corner

[sand umbra]

it should also be pointed out that 90% of the shit at or near exo tier ignores tiles anyway

[queen sail]

Voltaic Climeme

[ashen warren]

I dunno whenever I played against her she'd just leave an attack

[hollow idol]

She normally leaves the box when shes locked onto your Y position and you hug the wall

[sand umbra]

see also: Ark of the Overrated Weapons, Exoblade probably, Cosmic Immaterializer, Celestus

[ashen warren]

and my primary weapon is the Yharim crystal

[queen sail]

yormes christil
Well then that’s probably it

[night cradle]

I don't think Exoblade's projectiles can pass through blocks

But still, melee has already a good amount of weapons which projectiles do

[sand umbra]

please correct me if I'm wrong

Ark of the Cosmos does though

[night cradle]

Yeah, it does

[hollow idol]

seeing all the queen bees that spawn when I use it

yeah

[sand umbra]

which to be entirely frank is the main thing you're going to use for SCal if you have it

[queen sail]

Only exo weapons that can wallhack are AotC, Celstus, Always Better Than Drat, and Immaterializer

[hollow idol]

rip mage

[sand umbra]

you forgot Voltaic Climax and its bigger, better brother, VoiioV VorttroV

[hollow idol]

^

[queen sail]

Oh yeah and Vivid Meme ig

Less wallhack and more point and click out of boundaries

[hollow shell]

Yknow what
if she was unable to leave the box
True Melee would become possible for her, because you could pin her against the wall and deal some damage (before you gotta quickly dodge whatever she's shooting)

[sand umbra]

...actually, yeah, holy shit

[queen sail]

Well if she wasn’t player locked then maybe

[void kelp]

holy shit

[queen sail]

Because yposition lock almost always makes her out of range

[void kelp]

rover that’s. that’s perfect.

[clear basin]

Cram her in a wall yes this would be fun

[sand umbra]

rover coming up with the big IQ strats here

[void kelp]

because rn true melee should at least be able to meme to the end without something like Fargo’s tungsten enchant necessary

[sand umbra]

this would actually make Murasama have some sort of use without needing to move it

assuming the same change would also apply to bros

[hollow shell]

Isn't she always directly to your left or right?

[sand umbra]

she jitters around a bit, but yes

[queen sail]

Blonde demigod brutally sandwiches witch against wall

[sand umbra]

hot.........?

[void kelp]

you mean near-demigod pins witch and her brothers to wall

[hollow shell]

So if you're able to keep her at a fixed x, that being the x of the wall, then you should be able to get close enough for True Melee

[sand umbra]

indeed

[hollow shell]

(Youd be able to just walk into her and take contact damage)

[sand umbra]

...god, why didn't I come up with this sooner

I'd have suggested it ages ago

[queen sail]

What parts of the ai would need changing though

[sand umbra]

not much, to be frank

[hollow shell]

The programmers would have to make her respond to collision

[queen sail]

Atm she’s mostly retinazer

[sand umbra]

wrong Calamitas

[hollow shell]

which may or may not be quite painful

[queen sail]

How would you uh

[sand umbra]

we're talking SCal here

[queen sail]

Make that work

[sand umbra]

not Clone

[tired haven]

This sounds pretty underhaul-ish and I already like that

[void kelp]

making scal true melee possible is something I would love to happen thank you for the idea rover

[queen sail]

New update where all flying wallhacking mobs have tile collision

[hollow shell]

@ashen warren Add this as additional reasoning

If she collided with the box, you can do True Melee on her

[queen sail]

Would allow an actually possible legit scal true melee

[hollow shell]

((Murasama wouldnt be useless))

[void kelp]

it increases viable options for the fight :3

[sand umbra]

^

[queen sail]

There was a scal true melee but it was just using dummies with stellar striker

[tired haven]

Poor non-true melee classes trying to keep distance from her
A small price to pay for true memee scal

[sand umbra]

Murasama would actually rise to near the top of my tier list with such a change

[tired haven]

And well yes how else I was supposed to hit her?

[sand umbra]

because it'd reward high risk with high damage

[queen sail]

Yeah that’s the point

[hollow shell]

Everybody go star that because it's just me rn

[queen sail]

Legit true melee scal is almost impossible

[sand umbra]

which is something I always like
a weapon that takes high skill or high risk to use should get high damage to compensate

[swift bison]

purplesama with anime slash teleport would make it possible but that will never happen so

[void kelp]

I will literally continue my true melee death run and try to get my first scal kill that way

[hollow shell]

Additional concerns, however:
She would need to be programmed to only collide with the arena blocks or you could cheese her hardcore like Golem
But this also comes with the issue that arena blocks do not overwrite existing blocks, so in instances where youre not fully encapsulated by the arena, she would be able to get out of the box and maybe get stuck outside

Solution, albeit probably quite hard to program:
Make her collide with a set of coordinates that aligns with where the blocks are/would be, instead of the blocks themselves

(This suggestion's definitely gonna be a [Mid/High Effort] when it gets sent, if not exclusively [High Effort])

[tired haven]

Instead of tracking arena blocks she could track a virtual box around the spawn point where the blocks should be? It will make her get stuck in player blocks but it's their fault if they place much

[ashen warren]

Ok I added the true melee thing

[hollow shell]

(I'd like it if it was a bit more extensive than that but at least its included)

Yeah a virtual box

She would pass through everything except that virtual box, so she couldnt get stuck or cheesed

((along with this we should prolly implement that one suggestion which wanted SCal to always spawn within a close vicinity of you upon using Eye of Extinction, so she doesnt sometimes spawn on the ground way below you and gets locked out))

[elfin swan]

Here's my probably dumb idea

Instead of being unable to pass through, she can pass through objects but her ai tells her to stay within the box

[hollow shell]

One-way walls?

Or
no, hm

[elfin swan]

Well yes and no

[hollow shell]

I see what you're sayin

[elfin swan]

Her ai tells her to look for the box the item created, and to enter it and stay inside it

[hollow shell]

Like there's some number in her AI which tells her which distance to the left or right of the player she should hover around
and if the barrier is between her and the player, the distance between her and the barrier gets subtracted from that number

[elfin swan]

Something like that yeah

It keeps the problems of making her spawning below you or outside the box away and keeps the thing that makes true meme possible

[hollow shell]

Actually yeah
Just doing that subtraction thing is probably way easier than doing any kind of collision business, with either real or virtual tiles

(Suddenly this is looking very [Low/Mid Effort])

[elfin swan]

I would apply that to the brothers as well

[hollow shell]

yeah

[elfin swan]

It also stops the problems of her being golem cheesed

[hollow shell]

yep

[swift bison]

Can't all weapons that are viable for SCal hit through blocks by default?

wait no

[ashen warren]

nope

[swift bison]

but at least one for each class does

[hollow shell]

Murasama, Exoblade, SSV

At least one per class, sure I'll give you that

but not all options can

[elfin swan]

All this would do is make more items viable, like some that can't go through walls, it also allows true melee to finally finish a run

[ashen warren]

like the yharim crystal

[hollow shell]

mhm

[elfin swan]

Yep

[ashen warren]

and murasama so that my bro can finally finish his true melee run

[hollow shell]

(btw Kortix you mention a "virtual circle" when I think you meant "virtual box")

[elfin swan]

And apparently it'd be low effort too, from what has been said

[ashen warren]

oh

changed

[hollow shell]

Thanks

[ashen warren]

so would some thing like this be possible or would it be too hard to code?

[elfin swan]

The way I was thinking was

She can pass through all blocks but her AI tells her to look for this box and try to stay within it when possible

[hollow shell]

There are a few ways to do this
and honestly, the easiest way is probably also the one with the least side effects and consequences

[elfin swan]

^

[ashen warren]

thats good

that thing you wrote has been added to the suggestion

[hollow shell]

just make her hover-distance get subtracted by the distance between her and the wall, if the wall is between her and the player
and the math will make it so she hover along the wall instead of passing through

No collision code needed

(I mean in a general sense that is kinda what collision code is)

(but still)

[elfin swan]

It also makes her dash attack ((I think she has one) not make her vulnerable af when she's just stuck on a wall with the other one

[hollow shell]

Yeah she won't slide along it awkwardly

cuz it'd just be for the hover AI

[elfin swan]

She'll pass through it then hover back in when it's over

[ashen warren]

the dash attack could make her fly at the player and if she hits the boundaries maybe teleport to the location from where it started

It wouldn't seem as ghostly though

[hollow shell]

Nah prolly not needed
Dashes don't last too long and she gets back into position afterward very quick

[elfin swan]

Not to mention this saves us from the problems of making some blocks hit her and some blocks not hit her

[hollow shell]

which was another possibility, yeah

[elfin swan]

And changing her spawn position entirely would be harder than just instructing her to be inside the box when possible

[hollow shell]

Nah I don't think so

[ashen warren]

ok I'll remove that

[elfin swan]

Oh really

Eh that's fair

[hollow shell]

I'm pretty sure you can specify exactly where you want an NPC to spawn in relation to the player

[elfin swan]

Oh

[hollow shell]

Could just make it like 100 or 200 pixels above the player

[ashen warren]

technically she would spawn at the same place as where the player is though

if its the middle

[hollow shell]

Yeah so don't make it the middle :P

[elfin swan]

Still stops golem cheese and her just sliding across walls during dash attacks

[hollow shell]

We don't really need to change her spawn location because her getting locked out isn't a possibility
but there were other reasons why making her spawn near the player always is good

[elfin swan]

While probably being much less code which is always a plus

[ashen warren]

how about she spawns in the middle invisible and invulnerable and then later after she has moved like her pattern then she becomes a proper enemy

[hollow shell]

She's already intangible and invulnerable once the first bullet hell starts

Spawning her in the middle wouldn't make you get hit instantly, it'd just look awkward

[elfin swan]

Like skeletron and prime

[ashen warren]

yup so maybe make her invisible and let her code do its thing?

[hollow shell]

I guess

[ashen warren]

then make her visible?

[sand umbra]

dust would also help make it less awkward

dust and projectiles, to help make a more gradual "introduction" transition to the fight proper

[ashen warren]

Or you could use the sentences she says when spawning as the point at which she becomes visible

as it creates an atmosphere that she has been watching the terrarian the whole time

kind of acting like an old school boss transition

[elfin swan]

It does probably fit more for her to appear when she gets a human sprite tbh

Instead of phasing through walls

[ashen warren]

I think the lore says that she's permanently an eye so she can't have a human sprite

[elfin swan]

That's old

[hollow shell]

Ye the lore doesn't say anything about her being an eye anymore

[ashen warren]

the lore was changed?

[hollow shell]

Which is weird
because
she is an eye in-game

[elfin swan]

Its just an outdated sprite that hasn't been updated yet

[hollow shell]

Lore does get changed sometimes

[ashen warren]

so why is she and her doppel ganger eyes?

[elfin swan]

Retcons n shit

[hollow shell]

Just cuz the lore-accurate resprite hasn't happened yet

[elfin swan]

Doppel is an eye because failed clone and Scal has an outdated sprite

[hollow shell]

It'll be a bit of a project so it's further down on the priority list, we've got more pressing matters atm

[ashen warren]

maybe you could ask on the calamity art server for her sprite?