Brilliant design
#suggestions-discussion
tired haven
queen sail
Wait tiki staff was the first summon wep right
But it was just a unique mage wep back then
sand umbra
doesn't dragon in turn conflict with everything else
just by virtue of it piercing in the first place
tired haven
Well yes
sand umbra
tired haven
But you'd think that cells won't, since they shoot seemingly non-pierce projectile just like ufos
But lol
hollow shell
Slime Staff was added at the same time as Pygmy Staff (and Frost Hydra)
sand umbra
what's a Slime Staff
iirc
featuring the lowest drop rate in the game, beating out even the Coin Gun
tired haven
I'd believe hornet also was here at that point since qb exists, but no idea actually
sand umbra
...and without any of the power to justify it
hollow shell
Hornet was 1.2.4, along with many other summons
tired haven
Oh, I see then
hollow shell
it seems like the only summon that wasn't added in 1.2 or 1.2.4 (or 1.3)
was Raven Staff in 1.2.1
ashen warren
nimbus rod
tired haven
Rainbow gun
hollow shell
Nimbus Rod
Rainbow gun is ok because it's like aimed n shit
Nimbus Rod should be a sentry
runic heath
Yeah but summoner is at least relatively viable late game in vanilla unlike throwing
Yeah nimbus rod should be a sentry
sand umbra
fucking Nimbus Rod, man
runic heath
And the crimson cloud
sand umbra
why is that thing magic again
runic heath
Because it was added when summon had 3 weapons in the game
clear basin
Because the devs said so
ashen warren
clinger staff
hollow shell
Clinger Staff could be reworked into a sentry
As it is currently it wouldn't work as well
runic heath
It’s a stop wall
runic heath
why not let people craft the melee weapon variants into rogue weapons smh
hollow shell
cuz the devs made bad decisions
runic heath
Would be nice on rare weapons and vamp knives/scourge
When you get a 2.5% drop chance item but it’s the wrong class
hollow shell
I don't think Vamp and Scourge have rogue variants
runic heath
They don’t
quiet abyss
They don't
runic heath
But it would be nice if there was a way to swap between them
tired haven
They don't
ashen warren
They don't
hollow shell
spam
runic heath
Melee/rogue damage types
clear basin
They do not
queen sail
Craft them maybe
runic heath
That’s what I just said Kirby but thank you
queen sail
Have it interchangeable ig
tired haven
I mean, smth like eradicator was better example
hardy wing
i suggested that but it was rejected
queen sail
Oh hey it’s ozza
clear basin
And that's how Fargo's mutant mod was made
runic heath
Why?
hollow shell
The concern was free reforges but you already fixed that
queen sail
👀
Actually why not just do it like Fargo’s
Right click the item in the inventory to change it
hearty yew
I'm not reading the history but I'm starring the suggestion because calamity has 30+ featureless projectile vomit swords and they could all be spears or yoyos or literally ANYTHING ELSE (And still be melee!!)
queen sail
hearty yew
if an item is a sword it should have a good fucking reason for being a sword
hollow shell
Actually nvm your suggestion got delivered
ashen warren
does "true melee sword w/ no projectile #19285027" count as a reason
runic heath
Remove all non true melee swords smh
hearty yew
not because "sword easy to code" which is what the reason currently is
hollow shell
Somebody else can suggest it for your suggestion to get elevated tho
clear basin
Sword 
Gun that looks like a sword 
hearty yew
@ashen warren No, that doesn't count either, and I also want to destroy the 30 featureless true melee swords
tired haven
Gun spear 
proven tide
^
runic heath
Gun
clear basin
Marnite rifle spear sure does exist
hearty yew
You're a dev too; if you disagree with me, please let me know
hollow shell
imo it's more fine for Pre-Hardmode melee weapons to be relatively featureless
It'd be nice if they had cool effects but you want a sense of progression, yknow?
hearty yew
consider the following: nadir could be a sword
but it isn't, because someone paid for it not to be
@west prairie
hollow shell
@steep island The point of them being inventory items is to be inventory clutter
That's their balance
hearty yew
nadir WOULD have been a sword, had it not been requested to be a spear
clear basin
Thank God it's a spear
hearty yew
I could make a sword which vomits nadir projectiles faster than I could make nadir itself
hollow shell
It also wouldve been exo
clear basin
Because calamity needs more swords :))))))))
ashen warren
yet another exo sword 
clear basin
Like ik fabsol likes swords or whatever but it's getting a little ridiculous tbh
hearty yew
Where are the true melee spears, flails, solar eruptions and yoyos which only do something on contact (like Oracle)?
clear basin
^^^
hearty yew
WHY ARE THEY ALL SWORDS
ashen warren
more whipswords would be cool tbh
clear basin
YES
runic heath
Yeee
clear basin
Ozz we are on the same wavelength
elder mist
Hey here's a completely radical thought
runic heath
Tbf that 80 count includes some axes
ashen warren
tbh when will mourningstar
A. be moved to pre-doggo so it stops getting completely overshadowed by galactic ejaculation
B. actually draw the second whipsword
elder mist
Maybe because swords are just widely agreed to be more badass than spears, flails and yoyos?
hearty yew
Basically; I believe I understand what the suggestion is about, and it's not about ark of the cosmos
it's about all his lesser known friends
elder mist
A lot better for design?
clear basin
Terry lmao
sand umbra
when has swinging a sword ever been more badass than kicking the shit of your worst enemy in with what's normally considered a child's toy
iirc
clear basin
Fargo
elder mist
You can't tell me that in general spears, whips etc etc have more badass designs than swords.
clear basin
We know you like penetrator ok
sand umbra
Yes I can.
elder mist
Well, you'd be wrong then.
sand umbra
No I wouldn't, because it's not an objective matter.
hollow shell
I'm glad you're saying that somebody is wrong for having a different opinion.
sand umbra
It's a subjective matter.
hearty yew
Neptune's bounty and its downgrades could be spears
terror blade can be a spear
holy collider can be a whip
The mutilator could be multi flail like chain guillotines (where are THOSE?)
hollow shell
This is how professional debate happens.
clear basin
When mourningstar becomes pre dog I will finally do my flail through
elder mist
You do realize that when it becomes widely-agreed upon
It stops being that much 'subjective'
clear basin
Ozz I love you
queen sail
Didn’t we already have a sugg saying to move memeing star to pre doggo
Why hasn’t it, again
hardy wing
wait ein your pfp is pyke so you are less reliable...
clear basin
We. Need. More. Variety.
hearty yew
Morningstar is actually going to be moved to be post provi
clear basin
YESSSS
ashen warren
god bless
sand umbra
POG
hearty yew
draw code might be fixed idk
sand umbra
clear basin
and iii
hearty yew
Maybe it will maybe it won't
elder mist
Why're there more swords in video games than spears or any other type of melee weapon if you can say that non swords are better?
steep island
Finally
clear basin
Flail playthrough soooon
hearty yew
It's probably going to wind up being close to top tier on polter
@elder mist maces are cooler
clear basin
Maces are way cooler
hearty yew
but a hero's stereotypical weapon is a sword
sand umbra
petition to add maces as higher-tier flails
hollow shell
The Belmonts would like to speak to you
quiet abyss
This is starting to derail from the original topic.
First we were talking about a certain suggestion or smth like that, and now suddenly it's about "sword designs vs spears and others"?
Can we all please not go in circles like this?
elder mist
They have less room for potential design
clear basin
What's cooler than throwing a giant metal ball at people
elder mist
That's just inherit from the weapons.
rugged mist
not really
clear basin
Ozz lives in the help channel so this is strange seeing him here
hearty yew
I have no need to fight against devil's advocate here, though I do recognize your point that there's a huge amount of possible design variance for swords.
I believe design variance exists for the other weapon types, it simply hasn't been sufficiently explored.
elder mist
Especially in a 3D design, where you can't make a 2d sprite where a mace can look cool but have 0 praticality.
Oh I'm not saying there's no design variance.
I'm saying that swords just have more.
hearty yew
They have more explored and understood design variance
Spears for sure can look as cool
elder mist
The hilt where you grab the sword is far tinier and the area where you actually use to hit is typically where most of the design is popped.
Compare that to spears or maces
rugged mist
swords have more design variance because of how commonly theyve been used in media, not the other way around
elder mist
Where 90/50% of the weapon respectively is the hilt
hearty yew
Hm. Okay, more pixels.
I guess melee should just use Melee Guns the size of Onyxia then and we'll call it a day
elder mist
I mean I ain't complaining about gunblades.
hearty yew
Magic guns already exist. We might as well just throw in the towel and add melee guns.
rugged mist
if someone went back in time and made it so that maces or spears were the iconic hero weapon instead of swords im sure theyd be seen as the thing with lots of design variance
clear basin
Ozzatron is boutta go and code calamity spear expansion
hearty yew
gunblades are something I legitimately think we could use more of
clear basin
^^^^^^
sand umbra
give me the fucking Redeemer
hearty yew
@clear basin modularizing spears is on my to-do list
clear basin
Please gunblades pplleeaassee
hearty yew
@sand umbra is The Pack close enough?
clear basin
hey ozz can you add flails too :)
hearty yew
go to #wiki-lookup
spiral olive
Frag rocket launcher
hearty yew
idk I understand tentacle code but not whipsword code yet
flails yes, I get those. I made dragon pow
clear basin
Perfect amazing now we need post provi flail
hardy wing
theres whipswords in terraria ? since when
clear basin
Then I can do flail playthrough
hearty yew
I have no clue what that is.
sand umbra
it's the Redeemer from Warframe
sand umbra
it's a gunblade
you can swing it, but you can also fire it like a gun
sand umbra
a combo with it utilizes both of these aspects more often than not and it makes it amazing to use
I guess the point is that hybrid weapons can be fun as hell and are a scarcely-explored idea with Terraria mods
closest I can think of is Aether's Whisper which really only changes its damage type and mana cost
clear basin
If thorium, a much smaller dev team can make a full class of unique weapons calamity can make some God damn melee weapons that aren't swords
sand umbra
hollow shell
You say that as we're doing the Rogue update
clear basin
Yeah ik
elder mist
Yeah it's just saying for the hell of it, not because there's an argument to be made.
¯_(ツ)_/¯
clear basin
No that's not what I meant
clear basin
Idr what I meant nvm
quiet abyss
🤔
clear basin
forget it
spiral olive
hearty yew
I'll put calamity through the meat grinder all day but the second you step up and throw shade at me or the team I immediately want to know what we're doing wrong.
quiet abyss
Try and word your thoughts better next time, so you don't accidentally offend/annoy someone for no (valid) reason.
cedar reef
ohhhhh, so i didnt actually realize the mod in the mod browser wasnt the latest version, now i see what people mean by "kelvin got super nerfed"
lol
gonna refight mechanical bosses using nerfed kelvin and see if i can beat them q.q
hearty yew
Does that make sense? @clear basin
I really do want to hear your constructive criticism if you have it. But just not believing in us with no explanation makes me feel like there's distrust inherent to this community (surprise surprise, there is quite a lot of that)
clear basin
Yeah it does
I had something to say but I lost it while walking to class, if I forgot it it most likely wasn't important
hardy wing
i distrust when crafting trees for things get smaller
hollow shell
sand umbra
just stuff random items in the Clam ench crafts iirc
spiral olive
You know what exactly 3 things are from rogue (the unreleased items and the gif in announcements) trust me the extent to content that will come along with it is a lot more than that
And if you’re worried it’s just gonna be a ton of weapons and nothing else, then you’re very wrong
quiet abyss
^
hearty yew
While this channel is meant to discuss specific suggestions from #suggestions-voting and #suggestions-posting, it is also lately the closest thing we get on this server to direct community involvement with the devs.
Others have said this before, but I'll say it again. When discussion does move from a specific suggestion to considering, critiquing or evaluating the entire Calamity Mod, it should stay civil and respectful. Otherwise, what do you have our attention for? What impression are you giving the developers if all you're doing is raising a scene, throwing shade and laughing about it?
Don't start a argument just for its own sake, and if you're going to engage in discussing Calamity as a whole, keep your wits about you.
clear basin
I promise no shade was intended
signal prairie
if it makes you feel any better, I love the 99.9% of the work Calamity devs put into the Mod
hearty yew
Hey I'm not pointing fingers
clear basin
Ok cool thanks mr ozz
hearty yew
I'm just speaking my piece since we had yet another heated discussion with at least five different viewpoints
@quiet abyss would you be alright with pinning that
quiet abyss
clear basin
Discussion is healthy as long as it doesn't get out of hand
hearty yew
since it's a common theme of #suggestions-discussion now, and I want it to be visible
quiet abyss
Glad ya asked 👍
hearty yew
I encourage discussion
I really really do
I think these are the talks that NEED to happen if calamity is going to improve
But they're not happening effectively right now and I'd rather see that changed than see the mods start warning and muting people for getting rowdy and the result being a chilling effect that discourages constructive discussion
"chilling effect" being essentially censorship by discouragement
proven tide
and if discourse could remain concise and open that'd also be great
clear basin
To be fair this is a community of pubescent adolescents
hearty yew
we'll work with what we can get. I don't expect everyone who walks in here to be ready to change their opinions and that's okay, it takes a huge amount of mental effort to be that flexible all the time
hollow shell
(not all of em, Scopio)
proven tide
(and even if they all were, they should still try to be better if they want to do anything)
hollow shell
I don't have a big lens on the whole community but I at least know the devs are post-pubescent
clear basin
Honestly the most respectable part of the calamity mod isn't the content, but the fact that the devs are still working on this through the nie constant slew of garbage being flung at them at all times
The phrase passion project doesn't quite reach the extent of the work the devs put in
elder mist
That's quite honestly expected when a mod is at the top
You'll get shade thrown from every direction
clear basin
I don't wanna pretend I know anything about what you guys deal with however so please correct me
elder mist
Okay well, here's how it basically goes
At least half the terraria modding servers you'll come across will be filled with calamity hating groups
The other half may range between a few and a few too many.
...I wish I was joking, but this has been my experience so far.
Which is sad.
A lot of people cling on from problems that plagued the mod from like a year, a year and half, maybe even 2 years ago.
hearty yew
^
part of the reason I keep 100% changelogs is so that when people bitch about something that is factually not the case anymore I can point to it
"this changed, dude"
spiral olive
Pretty much
hollow shell
The first (and only) time I talked with a real life friend who discovered Calamity on their own
they complained about how ores generated under spawn and prevented Hellevators, and I said that was fixed
they said that Leviathan's insta-spawn upon killing ??? was funny but also annoying, and I said that was reworked
and there were a few more things like that
and they were at a loss for words, because they wanted to complain about something, but the stuff they disliked already got fixed
(This was a long time ago if you couldn't tell)
clear basin
You guys deserve all 60 patreons you have, you really do
hearty yew
🤷
lost agate
I agree with the latest pin, yes, this chat is for discussion but it has got so heated so commonly that i try to avoid it cuz otherwise im gonna have some... Bad memories when a suggestion gets sent
I look at a suggestion when it gets sent and then i remember "oh yeah, people went batshit over this" and im really unsure if i approve it or not for that same reason
I really wanna be able to discuss suggestions here so things can go for better, maybe even implement/have it be implemented the moment the suggestion shows up (like that turmoil sug)
But when things starts derailing or get abrassive af its like "what am i supposed to do with this" being reminded that most debuffs are lackluster every day for example gets more tiring than helpful imo
But that may just be me
If i really didnt care for this chat i would have actually kept it muted
void kelp
suggestions with negative comments about the community (eg. the one abt proposing changes to rogue stealth) really rubs me the wrong way even if it’s a well-written and justifiable suggestion
proven tide
For the sake of impartiality, and nothing else, there has been more than one occasion where someone tries to address an issue that had been mentioned previously so that the new discussion could provide a solution when the original post did not, and you closed it off before the discussion could begin because results hadn't been produced by the original discussion.
This isn't a personal attack, just a heads-up that in many situations, such as the debuff situation, it takes many slowly aggregating discussions to produce a proper solution instead of a half-baked suggestion idea with 23 ⭐s. We're small brains and we take time to think things over, so closing off discussion of a topic because it's been mentioned more than once before isn't entirely conducive to proper productivity.
HOWEVER, this does not mean all topics should be given a pass, regardless of how old and rehashed they are. In some cases it's perfectly valid to shut someone up before a conversation begins, because hearing I think the Halibut Cannon needs a buff is one of the worst experiences on the planet.
On top of that, there are people who repeatedly point out issues for the sake of pointing them out, and they, too, shouldn't be given the time of day.
But shutting down common discussion topics before people can build up discussion will just lead to further stagnation of those same issues, because nobody will have enough time to actually shape a solution.
queen sail
Halibut Cannon is done tbh
It’s a niche wep that stops being good around post dog and it’s already ass to get
lost agate
See thing is. Yes, discussing debuffs for a sugg is alright
But it has been bringed up so much but... Nothing happens
clear basin
*brought
sand umbra
I've already explained in considerable detail the issue from dev side with the much-desired debuff overhaul
lost agate
Yeah grammar aint best on my side
clear basin
It's ok man
lost agate
See thomas
We dont need to know the issue on dev side or player side or whatever, there needs to be a solution, going on and on and on with it and just nothing comes out of it, is just... It feels like a waste of time if i wanna be blunt
"We are on topic cuz this may be a potential suggestion" well when does that happen?
But well, thats my grain of salt, take it as you will
sand umbra
actually, allow me to extend upon that
by presenting an alternative that's become clear to me upon further research
as it turns out, the NPCLoader/GlobalNPC extension method of UpdateLifeRegen (the method responsible for debuff effects) is actually called after vanilla's has already counted
so theoretically --- and purely theoretically --- it is possible to override the vanilla effects of debuffs by creating a system that dynamically sets the NPC's life regen to zero and then reduces it by the suitable amount depending on what debuffs are present on the enemy
from how it works, I'll have to look further into it, but at a basic level I've determined that it in fact can be done, contrary to what I'd originally perceived
and that the above is the closest thing I really have to a solution
I'm going to be researching this further, but as it stands (if done right), the often-proposed debuff overhaul is actually entirely possible with enough time and effort
whether the devs opt to look into it or not isn't my fish to fry, but that's just what I've uncovered and what could potentially be a solution
opal barn
There is Yet Another Boss Health Bar support..
hardy wing
but is there 'Suprisingly Developed Again Boss Health Bar Mod' support
clear basin
What
hollow shell
Do we not have support for it?
Worked fine last time I used it
spiral olive
yabhb works fine on latest version
queen sail
No i mean unique health bars
Most health bars for calamity bosses using YABHB are just the generic health bars
I’m talking about unique health bars for certain bosses
proven tide
that'd be on their end iirc
not really much calamity exactly contributes to that, coding-wise .>.
hollow shell
I'm not sure about that, actually
It'd be really cumbersome if they had to implement every health bar a mod requests
They probably have crossmod code things like Boss Checklist had
tired haven
It most likely requires effort on both ends, but the artwork probably goes to the content mods
Since it makes more sense to design things like that with perspective of mod creators
hollow shell
Of course yeah we would sprite it
I do think that it is most likely doable only on our end
but
maybe not. I don't know for sure.
spiral olive
That would take sprites
sprites take time
It would be nice but not really a priority rn unless someone decides to go sicko mode
tiny rose
@hardy wing Every update eventually makes it to the browser, if we were to make a suggestion about every update, that would really be weird now wouldn't it?
fervent zealot
he has to deal with people in his discord who are less than smart and cannot figure out what update calamity means without hand holding
spiral olive
I don’t think it was a meme suggestion yeah
hardy wing
Your tag was a meme so I memed back
spiral olive
It’s just we haven’t been able to get it to the browser yet
trust me I know about people asking with the Fargo’s incompatibility too I’d like to get it out on the browser as soon as possible
ashen warren
mfw "update calamity from discord not mod browser" is pinned in fargo main channel, posted in bugs, posted in announcements with the mega link right there, and we still get dms and bug reports asking why fargo/apoth/whatever freezes character
sand umbra
spiral olive
Pretty sure Danny handles pushing stuff to the browser (I could be wrong) and I’m not sure if he’s had time to
ashen warren
spiral olive
In any case, it’s not really a meme sugma it’s just that we can’t do anything about it for now
tiny rose
@hardy wing Alright, the situation with your mod and calamity was explained to me by Phup, so I am removing your role now.
Sorry about that 
fervent zealot
:ech:
hollow shell
wtf is happening
opal barn
Fargo got warned 🦀
tiny rose
Nothhing
dusty stirrup
aye
tiny rose
Me making a mistake
opal barn
a mistake of challenging fargo
hardy wing
novel pebble
Were suggested multiple times
hollow shell
Defiled and Armageddon have had suggestions about that this year
Death hasn't
from what I could see.
tiny rose
Aaahhh I see
west prairie
did someone say they wanted sprites for boss healthbars
hollow shell
Maybe
west prairie
what is the general size of those things? i have a couple ideas
novel pebble
In the forum page of the mod you can find guidelines and such, you would probably find size-needed there
hollow idol
I can get the size in a few hours
hollow shell
Oh yeah this page has all the info
https://forums.terraria.org/index.php?threads/yet-another-boss-health-bar.55250/
It looks like the size can be whatever you want
it's on the coder's end to stitch it together
queen delta
Entropy’s Vigil EX
frail mantle
specific item suggestions aren't allowed
queen sail
Also why
hollow idol
Guessing its because there are no post scal summons
queen delta
Im stuck on whether this is a specific item suggestion or not
queen sail
Commit CI/Chicken Nuggets
hollow idol
same yata
void kelp
I’m pretty sure it’s a specific item sugg since it gives you a precise function
void kelp
although it didn’t give a name, it did give an exact series of things it does
tired haven
Seems like specific to me ngl
void kelp
general would be “add a post-Scal summon weapon”
queen delta
And post scal summons probably doesnt exist cuz any dev that asked for one got smited
void kelp
but specific is “add a post-Scal summon weapon that does [x]”
tired haven
There could be quite a few other styles used instead of scal-brothers so ye
Hell, it could be more butterflies
void kelp
it’s definitely specific bc of that
terse sundial
It's specific yeah
void kelp
are you authorized to delete?
terse sundial
if it doesn't get changed in the next 5 mins I'll delete it
unless the person just hasn't interacted since they posted it
void kelp
yep, no interaction but nobody has @ them tho
terse sundial
@iron plaza Specific item suggestions aren't currently allowed
queen delta
Seems like a post and run suggestion
void kelp
should we @ them? oh merk did it
terse sundial
You can change your suggestion to become less specific or I you/I can just delete it for the time being
distant gyro
this reminds me of an existing specific item suggestion
yea this thing was sent
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/580421589053734913
tired haven
I like how just above it is suggestion that could be sent to dev
with exactly 90 stars
distant gyro
hueh
terse sundial
distant gyro
'yea just sending a 4 months old sugg
sand umbra
the 239 stars on that
distant gyro
sand umbra
damf
still cliff
What if
terse sundial
Gone
sand umbra
rip in pizza
queen delta
still cliff
Just think about it
queen delta
lost agate
Tha hell are u talking about- hmm
still cliff
Im just sayin
void kelp
I mean like. Providab’s suggestions were one of the few good specific time suggestions
queen delta
i literally have no idea what you're talking about
void kelp
I think he’s memeing.
queen delta
Also that suggestion was just like any other item suggestions, but better quality
void kelp
yeah
his stuff is pretty consistently high quality but
they would be such a pain in the ass to program
hollow idol
Crimsaber and the alpha ray line were specific item suggestions
void kelp
probably why no such thing as a dev summoner item because that dev was killed
still cliff
I am full of stupid ideas
frail mantle
yes hello my name has been uttered
void kelp
hi providab
void kelp
btw if you’re full of stupid ideas, then don’t say them xP
terse sundial
Let's refrain from that
lost agate
Wasnt crimsaber deleted from existance
queen delta
They realized crimsaber was a specific item suggestion and had to immediately purge it
void kelp
I thought it was because it was completely redundant lmao
void kelp
((also sorry if I came across as rude))
hollow idol
But alpha ray line is still in
queen delta
Looks like the devs now know what to delete next
terse sundial
lost agate
Maybe because it was suggested when item suggestion werent an instant denial
hollow idol
it was on the forums
civic pond
alpha ray > T1000 line anyways
hollow idol
when discord wasnt a real thing
civic pond
Interesting boss in the mods past
carmine spindle
Make the Lorde a new pet item
civic pond
:hmmm:
lost agate
Lorde as a whole is a no go
lost agate
Also just install apoth and friends
sand umbra
the base idea was interesting, if nothing else
but yeah LORDE as a whole gets memed if present in modern suggs
distant gyro
tfw reaction spam
bitter topaz
@carmine spindle no.
void kelp
also just 
carmine spindle
@Demonic Entity Yes
queen delta
what a meme
civic pond
literally no
hollow shell
All LORDE-based suggestions are not allowed, and also a LORDE pet already exists in Apotheosis & Friends, a separate mod.
bitter topaz
^
queen delta
When do we start copyright striking all vids that contain lorde
carmine spindle
Im actually spriting it already
void kelp
sounds like a fun pet project
carmine spindle
one that makes people suffer
I see why noone wants it
its a bloody meme of the past
queen delta
carmine spindle
wait the suggestion was removed?
hollow shell
Yes
carmine spindle
Big sad
hollow shell
Because LORDE suggestions are not allowed
and LORDE pet already exists
in Apotheosis & Friends mod
civic pond
assuming they'll read pins
carmine spindle
please make fun of me
nocturne crow
Maybe not in caps. But I like it.
lost agate
insert "who reads pins anyway" here- oh there we go
civic pond
just rename every channel to (channel name) READ PINS
distant gyro
assuming they know what a pin is
sand umbra
how many times has this been suggested again
queen delta
They have no idea that theres rules for suggesting cuz theres literally nothing about it
void kelp
oh no you’re not the only person to not read pins
distant gyro
there are lots of "what's a pin"/"where's a pin"
queen delta
Many people will read pins if its in the channel name, and those that dont were already a lost cause
void kelp
channels like #help-advice-read-pins and #bugs-read-pins have read pins since they’re frequented by the most stupid questions
lost agate
I dont really care about that anymore, you can star it, it can be implemented but idk how much of a difference it will make
void kelp
hey for every person who doesn’t know what pins are, there’s someone who reads them
swift bison
there's always gonna be some brainlet that posts:
suggestion - re-add the lorde
reason -because i want it back
queen delta
It doesnt take much effort to rename the channel to read pins and there's no downsides to it
carmine spindle
Of course we dont want him as a boss
queen delta
So what's the problem here?
carmine spindle
that would be horrifying
queen delta
Most other channels dont need read_pins because its not needed
But this one should have one
teal ibex
so, an admittedly excessive idea has occurred to me
queen delta
hollow shell
We should probably unpin these so that pin-reading is easier
and also the fact that they don't really apply anymore
teal ibex
what if we had a #suggestions-voting_submission channel with the rules pinned, front and center, and was the only place that people could input suggestions?
suggestion gets posted, deleted, and reposted to the normal #suggestions-voting channel. that way when people post they can at least see the rules present.
nocturne crow
If someone really wants the LORDE to be put back in, make a separate mod and code him in.
teal ibex
that being said, a third channel for suggestions seems like a lot
hollow shell
Alphi's pertains to specific item suggestions
and with 🚫 and 👍, Mrrp's has been solved kinda
queen delta
Yeah a 3rd channel is kinda overkill
But i dont think adding 2 words to the channel name is
zealous ridge
i feel like this whole renaming the channel to suggestions read pins should probably be more self evident through the server rules, if im honest
renaming the channels that need it to read pins is a decent solution, but through the design of the server it isnt evident at all that the suggestions channel is any different from other channel from just a glance... i feel like this is more a formatting and communication problem.
I wonder what would change if "general channels" was split into "general" and "serious" channels, where general is more lenient while serious is more strict and defined by what the pins say
teal ibex
i agree, but its the only thing that i think would actually yield results
which is disappointing and probably needless, at the end of the day
civic pond
See i liked the idea of people having to post a sug here first, but supposedly it'd be just too much work
queen delta
I wonder how many people here posted a suggestion thinking anything besides meme suggestions goes, only to be greeted by: "that's a suggestion don't. read pins"
teal ibex
you cant force people to behave
you can bring a horse to water, but cant make it drink
hollow shell
Can't tell if that proverb applies or not
void kelp
some horses thankfully will drink
teal ibex
the water in this metaphor are the rules sors
civic pond
not behavior
nocturne crow
Admins and Mods can bring the banhammer though if needed
hollow shell
I suppose
civic pond
banhammer is rarely necessary
teal ibex
we can make the rules present for the horse to a certain degree, but it doesnt mean theyll take interest
fervent zealot
if they don't then they shall perish
civic pond
suggestions seems clogged up on its own to me
queen delta
Sure, renaming the channel wouldnt solve all problems, but it sure would mitigate it, and i dont think it would cause any new problems besides extremely minor ones
void kelp
honestly not reading the rules is just asking for punishment
- the addition of two words is minor but might be useful regardless
hollow shell
We could try forcing suggestions to be posted in this channel first through the use of roles and a bot
Like, somebody has to do a command to (or directly) grant you a temporary role that allows you to message in #suggestions-voting, and you'll only get that role if you posted something in here first and a mod gave you the Ok
void kelp
that could be a good way to reduce meme suggestions
sand umbra
see, I like that idea
void kelp
or those folks who drop a suggestion and run
hollow shell
Bother doing what?
sand umbra
suggesting.
People like simple tickets. They don't like having to jump through a dozen hoops to make 'emselves heard.
void kelp
I can see it discouraging some people, yeah
hollow shell
If the suggestion is not important enough to the person that they don't want to put the effort into getting it approved, then maybe it's not a good suggestion.
teal ibex
the people who like simple tickets arent the people we want to cater to
nocturne crow
This is the discussion for said suggestion. The suggested idea could be posted here. Improvised here, then transferred to the suggestions main section once approved here.
sand umbra
I can see it discouraging quite a few people from suggesting in the first place even if their sugg is good
zealous ridge
for that, we need to define what "good suggestion" is in the first place
sand umbra
for the simple reason that it's quite likely and often the case, mainly for larger or more controversial suggs, to be put under hellfire in this channel before even being considered
void kelp
folks with anxiety or a generally pessimistic attitude might not really want to take the extra effort to send in a suggestion, even if it’s well-thought out and good
civic pond
Wouldn't people go through the trouble if they thought their suggestion was that good?
elder mist
Bruh
hollow shell
Hol up isn't this problem why we implemented the ❕?
void kelp
wait a second you’re righ
sand umbra
I'm pretty sure that's like
the exact reason ❕ exists, ye
void kelp
maybe you need to hold suggestions to a higher standard, perhaps?
hollow shell
Huh.
queen delta
We already hold suggestions to a good standard
sand umbra
the standard is fine, to be frank
civic pond
My main issue is a lot of people who just drop a sugg and run
queen delta
the problem is, people most likely dont know that suggestion donts doc exists
civic pond
also yeah the doc is kinda buried
queen delta
And end up posting something that goes against the doc
hollow shell
A bad suggestion will never exist for more than a few minutes because the ❕ won't get removed and people'll notice
zealous ridge
are we measuring a suggestions success by how many stars it gets, whether or not its implemented, or how well its formatted? this needs to be defined before we talk about what "good" is
void kelp
maybe those suggestions could get immediately reacted with X
hollow shell
We now trying to avoid people posting bad suggestions in the first place
or are we looking too deeply into a problem that's already solved?
hollow saffron
'good' is probs what the devs think is good
Omegagood suggs get implemented before reaching 90 stars
civic pond
thats usually because they were already planned
void kelp
I’d consider “good” to be well thought out, reasonable suggestions that are feasible to implement as well as address something that’s missing
civic pond
hollow saffron
Oof
hollow shell
(not "omegagood", more like small fixes that help remind the devs)
queen delta
Not always
void kelp
or in the case of like,
void kelp
item tooltips, it’s addressing a developer oversight
queen delta
Sometimes devs might see that suggestion and say "Why didn't I think of that? Consider it done."
hollow saffron
also @queen delta i already made that suggestion smHHHHH
civic pond
I'd like to see suggestions actually be thinned out
queen delta
A lot of people did
hollow saffron
lol
void kelp
I’d be content to see the standards for a suggestion to get rid of the [!] reaction rise a bit
fervent zealot
purge the unworthy
glory to suggestions thinning
all hail the highest chance for suggestions to actually get in
civic pond
yes please
hollow saffron
imean like, bad suggs will die in new or not get implemented upon reachinig 90 stars
void kelp
all suggestions need to be to the point on what’s wanted to be addressed + have some degree of rationale
civic pond
Because dead suggestions that sit in the channel just take up space. No?
hollow shell
In semi-related news I'm going to remove Mrrp's feedback pin and Alphi's specific item sugg pin
Any objections?
civic pond
Nope
queen delta
No
sand umbra
the good suggs sit in the channel just as long
civic pond
i also just realized i have no feedback on any of my sugs :sademote:
nocturne crow
After a certain duration of not reaching a deadline of a certain number of stars, remove affected suggestions?
civic pond
a deadline?
hollow saffron
nah
sand umbra
you see more checker-flags, yes
but how large is that ratio still to the enormous number of suggestions that exist and the amount of them that are incredibly well thought-out
hollow saffron
prevents reposting
civic pond
I don't think thats a good idea
void kelp
I’d say older suggestions are just ignored anyways
civic pond
well.
queen delta
Nobody hasnt given me a reason why # suggestions_read_pins is a bad idea
hollow saffron
Its not
sand umbra
I think it's a wonderful idea
civic pond
^
hollow saffron
Just that #bugs-read-pins and #help-advice-read-pins have it and no one reads the 'read pins' part
Yeah
civic pond
Reading the pins should have been a no brainer
sand umbra
it'll do something, but ultimately any attempt to get people to read the rules won't work
civic pond
but people dont have brains to do so
hollow saffron
^^
zealous ridge
its not a bad idea, but i think its a symptom of a larger problem with the server's formatting, which i feel could be solved more elegantly through formatting the server better, rather than renaming things
sand umbra
which isn't the impossible task of fixing the problem, it's just moving it elsewhere
void kelp
it’ might help out. But it sure won’t hurt
sand umbra
to be entirely frank, a person cannot be forced to read the suggestion rules
no matter how you enforce it, there will be people that completely ignore them
civic pond
Also can someone remind me
hollow shell
God you know what we should do?
Make somebody unable to message in a given channel at first, and then bury the way that they become allowed to message in the channel somewhere in that channel's pins,
like you gotta message something specific in some other channel first
hollow shell
This would still do the discouragement thing
but
less brainlettery
hollow saffron
I agree
hollow saffron
Make a pin where they must read it and react with a message to gain access to that channel
Kinda like a yagpdb thing
hollow shell
Aight even better idea:
Make people have to do a short quiz on the pins of a channel before they can message in that channel.
queen delta
Then we just ban them from suggesting forever 
void kelp
these rules won’t stop me because I can’t read!
civic pond
hollow saffron
Better
sand umbra
it sounds paradoxical, but you would be surprised how smart people can be when it comes to being dumb
civic pond
Thomas jesus christ
marble mirage
imagine reading
nocturne crow
It's a curse. Believe it or not
fervent zealot
make people have to write an essay on why they want to suggest for calamity mod
boom, brainlets literally obliterated
queen delta
Must have perfect grammar, punctuation, and be revised 3 times, and be over 1000 words
zealous ridge
eh, im honestly not a fan just because that would be a pain to go through... im not sure if it's a meme at this point but uhhhhh
hollow saffron
@queen delta you forgot MLA format double-spaced Times New Roman size 12
hollow shell
With at least 3 sources, annotated bibliography
distant gyro
hollow saffron
Must be thoroughly revised and run through an anti-plagiarism algorithm
queen delta
And must be reviewed and approved by 3 professionals
civic pond
at this rate, that might not be a bad idea
hollow shell
I think the conclusion of this convo is that we already have ❕ and a bad suggestion will never go by unnoticed. I don't think there's a problem.
hollow shell
Trying to get bad suggestions to not be posted at all would be too difficult or have other downsides
civic pond
Sors if a bad suggestion is there doesn't it kinda just take up space?
hollow shell
Yeah but it'll get deleted
hollow saffron
they can always delete it
civic pond
I mean if it sits there with ❕
swift bison
honestly true tho
hollow shell
If it doesn't get deleted, and the exclam stays (which happens sometimes, usually when a mod/dev requests a change and it never happens or something),
it's not that big a deal anyway, it doesn't happen often.
zealous ridge
still think server should be formatted in a way that better separates the "read pins" channels from normal ones so that theres less doubt in the air for new members
but its a small thing anyways i guess
hollow shell
"chill channels" cal_talk, other_talk, gen_talk, and gen_media
versus
"serious channels" help_advice, lore, sugg, sugg_disc, bugs, multi_hooks, wiki_lookup
zealous ridge
thats what i was thinking, yeah sors
sand umbra
sounds like an epic gamer move to me
zealous ridge
also yes wind blade proj fix please that would be nice
civic pond
Also can i suggest something to goldplume spear having auto swing or no
anything wrong with that
zealous ridge
it would make goldplume way easier to spam
void kelp
good sugg imo
hollow shell
uh oh
zealous ridge
and i agree it sucks currently
lost agate
Suggest it and see how that goes
void kelp
reasoning would be consistency + make it more useable
hollow shell
uh oh
sors please
hollow shell
There was a big-ass argument about autoswing the other day
civic pond
here we go again
lost agate
Oh that
civic pond
🏃
lost agate
Well i dont really care
zealous ridge
what, triggered by battle bee's suggestion?
lost agate
If people want it then so be it
hollow shell
Yeah
civic pond
Yep ok
zealous ridge
well, i personally agreed with bee, but im assuming the main reason autofire was added was to make using it less painful (or spammy?)
which isnt bad per se
civic pond
Not sure if i missed anything
zealous ridge
goldplume in general was always super underwhelming for me
civic pond
Especially compared to windblade
zealous ridge
not just the lack of autoswing, that could work with some tweaking if the base were actually good
civic pond
the thing was awful
zealous ridge
but the base is already low range, low velocity, hard to aim, and practically like throwing actual feathers at enemies
youre waaaay better off going true melee with the sausage maker with its homing projectiles on hit
lost agate
(btw theres no such thing like tile hitbox, it just that everything above 30x30 can hit tiles as soon as it spawns)
(referring to wind blade)
sand umbra
...idle thought: isn't 30x30 about the size of the player
or am I being retarded again
sand umbra
figured as such
lost agate
If you make a projectile bigger than that you either do some weird code so it actually shoots from the blade or make it ignore tiles the first frames it exists
sand umbra
something that always annoys me: projectiles simply refuse to be shot from the muzzle of a gun (magic or otherwise) or the tip of a staff
why
lost agate
because you have to make some calculations for that to happen
otherwise its just on player
sand umbra
lost agate
smth smth a set distance away from player center but rotated to the direction youre aiming
lost agate
i never tried it so take that as you want, i might be wrong, and even if its thats easy, on stuff like sword it would make stuff spawn on thin air
and well imagine going through all items to see which could use that, get what distance away it needs to be, and then test them all just in case nothing broke
teal ibex
you could probably do it in a minute or two, but you'd have to manually do it
many, many, many times
which is probably why it hasn't happened, i'd imagine
it'd take like a buncha hours to fix em all up and the effect would be v small
lost agate
hours and hours to move projectiles a few inches yes
teal ibex
though i do wonder if you could write a script for it to be at least closer to accurate by getting the sprite size or something
sand umbra
yeah doing it for a few things wouldn't be too bad
teal ibex
i assume you'd need to edit about like 200 or so
sand umbra
okay there we fucking go after like a minute
point is, there's a lotta shit you'd have to change
radiant meadow
another rename suggestions suggestion 
lost agate
a suggestion suggesting suggestion to be renamed to suggestion read pins. Suggestion
and this is me repeating the word suggestion for no reason k thx bye
sand umbra
this is all very suggestive
hollow shell
Visibility is a concern?
lost agate
on the middle of the night yes
hollow shell
Tons of accessories make you glow
queen delta
Yeah but all of them are pretty much the same strength
hollow shell
The only time it's most concerning is early-game, where Shine Potion is.
tired haven
I mean, the light power that may be sufficient is like ML tier (Suspicious tentacle light pet) and that's... a tad bit late
sand umbra
I like how by the time you get the Suspicious Looking Tentacle
the literal only purpose for it is the post-Polter Abyss
tired haven
Plus since it's a potion, not permanent upgrade, it makes sense for it to be more powerful
And ye lel
Well, plus some mining but it's not that crucial
radiant meadow
at least it's better than the gravity globe
sand umbra
oh absolutely
tired haven
Indeed 
sand umbra
Tentacle at least has a purpose 
Grav Globe needs the ability to switch grav in mid-air, tbf
radiant meadow
although grav globe has potential meme energy w/ ml lore
actually, I might be able to let grav globe switch in mid air
sand umbra
the ML lore grav-flip boost doesn't seem all too significant though
especially compared to other accessories available at the tier you get the Grav Globe itself
quick ice
Gravity flipping in midair would be cool with Gravity Globe
hollow shell
Huh, I thought ML lore let you flip with Gravity Globe in mid-air
sand umbra
no
hollow shell
Maybe it was only planned..
sand umbra
is that a planned thing?
radiant meadow
I can easily do that I think
sand umbra
honestly Grav Globe should be able to do it regardless
hollow shell
Not currently that I am aware of
sand umbra
the fact that it can't to begin with is retarded
sand umbra
grav potions
radiant meadow
because yes
sand umbra
why is it that a fucking pre-boss potion that only takes a buff slot can let you flip gravity in mid-air
but the Expert drop from the final boss of the game that comes in the form of an accessory can only do it if you're standing on solid ground
that's just a little bit backwards to me
hollow shell
You're right.
Gravity Potion should take 3 buff slots.
zenith hazel
because vanilla and good balancing never go together
hollow shell
(that'd be kinda cool balancing, if some buff icons were really wide and took up multiple buff slots
but, we already have some issues with reaching the max amount of buffs, so it wouldn't make much sense now)
sand umbra
that'd actually be cool as fuck
IF BUFF SLOTS WEREN'T CAPPED AT 22
buff slot cap will always baffle me
as will many other things in redcode
such as projectiles only having two entries for each ai[] array while NPCs get four
or counterweights not actually having a specific bool but rather having an int that defines what counterweight you're using
tired haven
The cap of 5 on enemies baffles me even more ngl
sand umbra
that's even fucking worse
players can get 22 fucking buffs apiece
why can NPCs only get 5
why are they capped at all
fervent zealot
the vanilla buff limit was literally only increased to fix a dumb bug
why can't they just fix it to an actually not limited
fervent zealot
like if they literally had to cap it at least cap it at a number higher than vanilla has
sand umbra
not 22 or 5
fervent zealot
that way these stupid fucking bugs that you had to fix wouldn't have come up in the first place
sand umbra
friendly reminder that because of the npc debuff cap, even if all immunities are removed from bosses
some late-game Clam weapons still won't be able to inflict their full debuff range on them
because only 5 can/will take effect at any given time
karmic stone
Why the fuckle would enemy npcs have debuff caps
sand umbra
why does the player have debuff caps
karmic stone
Understandable
hollow shell
@radiant meadow What's the original suggestion of suggestions_read_pins?
What's givin Yata's a bluecheck
radiant meadow
the same message that gave the last one a blue check
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/585854145064337411
lost agate
wind blade doesnt bork near tiles and has better visuals now 
hollow shell
I see
That's just particularly hard to search for because "#suggestions-voting" got formatted and is considered separate from the "_read_pins"
Thank you Discord
radiant meadow
queen delta
So even if nothing came out with my suggestion, I still feel like the don'ts doc could have some notice. I'm thinking perhaps change the channel description on #suggestions-voting to say to read pins?
hollow shell
@tight edge The teleport will be easier to predict in the coming update, see #changelogs 23
but, your suggestions is still valid.
hearty yew
make suggestions bot delete all messages sent to suggestions which aren't sent by whitelisted users
users are considered whitelisted when they @ suggestions bot in this channel with the message I read the pins
this behavior would be explained in the pins
so if you read the pins you know how to send messages, because you read the pins
if you didn't, you are softbanned from suggesting until you do
radiant meadow
I'd rather it be dm's than flooding this channel
hearty yew
suggestions bot also deletes the messages that @ him so nobody sees anyone else doing it
radiant meadow
oh
hearty yew
yes, that works too
making people DM suggestions bot is even smarter
that way NOBODY knows what to do or that anything is happening
unless you read the fucking pins
this however requires mass expansion to suggestionsbot features
hollow shell
Well you don't need to have the bot delete unapproved messages sent in #suggestions-voting
We could just disallow them from messaging
I imagine typing up a suggestion and then having it instantly fucked upon hitting enter would be very annoying
rugged mist
that would prob require the creation of a new role
or at least that would be the easiest way of implementing it
hollow shell
Per-user permissions exists, but it could be a new role instead
hearty yew
it's intentionally annoying @hollow shell
I want people who think they can suggest without reading the rules to be slapped on the wrist
disallowing from messaging in #suggestions-voting requires an ever escalating set of individual user permissions in the channel. discord probably has some random limit on that
Given how huge of a server we are we'd probably find out what it is
fervent zealot
having it delete them would be better because it's annoying and it slaps people who failed to read the channel name
hearty yew
yeah as much as I normally disagree with being petty or petulant, in this case it is less likely to break the discord API, and does make people wonder where the hell their suggestion went
It gives them realization and pause instead of just thinking "oh I can't type here" and wandering off
fervent zealot
it's petty but it's for a good cause
hollow shell
Aight I can remedy this idea
Have the bot DM them with the exact message they tried to send
and tell them that they cannot send it because they have not read the pins
so they don't lose their message but it's still very jarring
proven tide
big brain
fervent zealot
sounds okay but doesn't really deter low quality suggestions as much
because instead of "ah fuck i have to retype that" it's "haha time to copy paste it and read one single pin"
hollow shell
hrm
proven tide
okay
how about a message you posted in #suggestions-voting could not be sent as you have not proved you have read the pins or whatever message it is
but specify that they need to respond with a certain command to actually get that message reposted in their dms
ensure that they actually did read and listen to the message
ashen warren
Don’t forget that not everyone has dms open, and as such not everyone would get the dm regarding their suggestion being deleted
reef plover
also comes down to human decency or being lazy
so a suggestion with potential could just not come up until later because the suggester was too lazy
wary flume
Ranged is pretty powerful lets just let things like rogue settle in lol
ashen warren
I think it just doesn't seem as big as melee because the only good weapon is the halibut.
night cradle
not really
wary flume
Halibut sucks but oke
night cradle
there are a ton of good ranged weapons
wary flume
Ranged is honestly so good
ashen warren
when was the ranged class updated?
wary flume
Probably my fav class excluding rogue considering it isn't finished yet
granite owl
@ashen warren no
zenith hazel
the only good weapon is halibut
uh... no?
proven tide
the only good weapon is the halibut
wary flume
xD
proven tide
bruv
fierce hedge
1st off, Ranged is THE most powerfull class so far.
2nd off, i think you're not even allowed to suggest that...
granite owl
ranger is :ranger:
proven tide
can someone get a :ranger: in chat
fierce hedge
granite owl
♿
proven tide
@ashen warren
ashen warren
when was it updated?
fierce hedge
I did it dw
night cradle
Halibut is a cheat weapon for everything but pre-DoG anyway
granite owl
what was updated?
zenith hazel
wdym updated?
granite owl
since mod release
ashen warren
Maybe i should have played without the halibut that one time i played through calamity
In what universe is ranger weak?
wary flume
Halibut isn't even that strong
ashen warren
wary flume
Your game probably just gets slowed down to oblivion so you can dodge easily
night cradle
eh, it is strong, it's just pretty unfun to play with it
zenith hazel
@waxen panther that’s just bad RNG on your part
proven tide
^
granite owl
^
proven tide
seq & I killed 1,200 ichor stickers and got 0 spears of destiny
wary flume
Cryostone can't really be made easier to get because of how useful it is
night cradle
^ tbh
wary flume
RNJesus
waxen panther
@Bravispooky lmao rip
wary flume
Is on my side
zenith hazel
and yes cryo stone is 10%
ashen warren
man i hate RNG
fierce hedge
I love RNG
wary flume
Kortix the first time I heard about the halibut I went to the abyss and killed 1 enemy
and never returned
fierce hedge
Propably bc i have luck on my side 24/7 
ashen warren
I killed 300 king slimes and didn't get laudanum or heart of darkness
zenith hazel
anyway enough about the RNG
wary flume
😦 
zenith hazel
the ranger suggestion is already deleted anyway so no need to go on about it
wary flume
oke
ashen warren
don't hurt me for that please
zenith hazel
you’re fine, dw
wary flume
we're not trying to
night cradle
we won't, you're fine
zenith hazel
just don’t go apeshit about how your suggestion is right and people are wrong and you should be good in terms of suggestions
night cradle
yea
proven tide
the, uh, what
ashen warren
the thing where the AEW teleports to your base when you slurp up a recall
ruby cobalt
AEW doesn't despawn and follows you even after your death, in addition to that he used to (citation needed if this is fixed) despawn in MP after being touched once
ashen warren
the AEW is too dangerous it should despawn outside the abyss
zenith hazel
if it teleports to your base then just don’t attack it
midnight wyvern
What is aew
zenith hazel
adult eidolon wyrm
proven tide
ah
midnight wyvern
Yes they are