so just bc there's better options, you want the gun to be directly nerfed by not having autofire
#suggestions-discussion
elder mist
queen delta
Wtf i’ve been mashing the button for an autofire weapon this whole time? 
radiant meadow
hollow shell
Buff its damage
pliant cargo
yes
if the nerf is too strong, given a damage buff
tired haven
At least you had proper aim with that
Holding slow weapons is pretty ech
elder mist
pliant cargo
if we removed the unique elements of guns to buff them the gatligator would be pinpoint accurate
elder mist
I'm failing to understand this logic of why people want to click manually
hollow shell
Because it's unique
pliant cargo
because it's a pistol, and i want to
tired haven
I assume variety
brazen bramble
it can add some veriety too
tired haven
But it's weird one
brazen bramble
slower but stronger
pliant cargo
also that
elder mist
Just because it's unique doesn't mean it's a good type of unique
pliant cargo
there is an upsetting lack of slow guns
brazen bramble
but then you look at the golden eagle and i can't see it changing soon
hollow shell
and because it's more difficult (apparently), it could lead to the possibility of reaching higher DPS at optimal usage compared to autofire weapons
elder mist
It feels shit to use in vanilla, because it is shit to use
pliant cargo
but you just said it was good in vanilla
hollow shell
"feels" is the keyword
elder mist
how long do you typically use it for
pliant cargo
until i get gatligator
tired haven
Star cannon for example also feels shit to use, but in another term (deficite ammo)
But is op
sure thing
queen delta
Wtf do you lift weights with your finger every day?
pliant cargo
or a titanium/adamantite repeater
brazen bramble
i think pistols should be the type of weapon that you should land almost every hit, unlike autos that you just aim at the target and hope it lands
lost agate
Hol up
hollow shell
why tf do Handheld Tank, AMR, and Skullmasher have autofire
brazen bramble
slow and steady
lost agate
Didnt phoenix blaster get autofire cuz people actually asked for it??
elder mist
and not having autofire is cancer?
pliant cargo
Wtf do you lift weights with your finger every day?
i hope you don't just furiously mash the L click with semi autos 
tired haven
Almost everything in calamity does have autofire, that's likely why
pliant cargo
it just seems normal to me
brazen bramble
yeah
radiant meadow
animosity is autofire with both firing modes
brazen bramble
semi on left click, auto on right
pliant cargo
seems
brazen bramble
should be less uncomfortable that way
pliant cargo
convoluted
hollow shell
hrm
hearty yew
i would also remove autofire from cursed capper
brazen bramble
because right clicking probably hurts a lot more
hearty yew
if you want an autofire gun use the clockwork assault rifle
pliant cargo
very good point
hearty yew
and aeries
pliant cargo
maybe the aeries too
queen delta
Also remove autofire from p90 for true suffering
lost agate
No but seriously, remind me, didnt we add autofire cuz people asked for it??
hearty yew
i don't know
hollow shell
p90 is a submachine gun
hearty yew
i wasn't paying attention to why it happened
pliant cargo
the people that asked for autofire are not me/us
queen delta
Yes we shall suffer
pliant cargo
communities are made up of different ideas
hollow shell
Buff their damage
hearty yew
because you don't want to click? okay buddy
hearty yew
yes I do
brazen bramble
i think adding a right click option and adjusting stuff a bit is a good suggestion, but chaining suggestions and all that
elder mist
Okay, do you play more ranger than me?
hearty yew
as of recently i played quite a lot of vanilla ranger. and those are both vanilla weapons, and i used them both quite a lot
No, I don't
elder mist
I've used literally all the ranger weapons
I know which ones are good and bad and what would make them good/bad in an instant
hearty yew
So are there any tolerable non auto fire weapons in the entirety of Terraria
hearty yew
You have to manually click to use the terra blade optimally because of redcode
tired haven
Not necessarily, actually
tired haven
If you have certain (pretty average for melee user) melee speed, autofire is better than clicking on terra blade
hearty yew
why does removing autofire make it useless
hollow shell
@devout lava Should prolly say their full name
elder mist
your accuracy drops
pliant cargo
no it was not, you just
click
elder mist
immensely
pliant cargo
it's simple
elder mist
by manually clicking vs autofiring
hearty yew
that's weird, crab
devout lava
Ight, imma gt the wiki
weak agate
best weapons to fight profane guardians?
tired haven
Terra blade is a can of worms in terms of design anyway
hollow shell
#help-advice-read-pins @weak agate
radiant meadow
this isn't the place to ask for that
pliant cargo
wrong channel
tired haven
I could go in details if you want
hearty yew
well ein if this suggestion gets delivered you can fight tooth and nail on dev server
elder mist
its not even the fact that "no autofire means less shots per second"
it's that you straight up miss more
hollow shell
Do you miss more, or do you notice your misses more?
elder mist
miss more
hearty yew
you do miss more, i understand his point
elder mist
for sure
hollow shell
Alright
hearty yew
clicking jiggles your mouse
devout lava
Hit or miss?
hearty yew
and focusing on clicking prevents you from tracking aim as well
pliant cargo
i don't even think you miss that much more
hearty yew
he is absolutely correct
elder mist
it's a lot easier to lead enemies into your shots when autofiring
pliant cargo
aiming is trivial, it's a 2D game with huge targets
elder mist
compared to manual clicking
queen delta
I’d like some weapons that arent autofire but are stronger
hollow shell
(btw does anybody have video of Deep Sea Dumbbell being used)
elder mist
'aiming is trivial'
hearty yew
( not if they're always off screen due to post ML mobility creep but that's another problem entirely )
hollow shell
(I wanna know what he's talking about)
elder mist
pliant cargo
is it not trivial
elder mist
...no, chloro bullets exist for a reason
pliant cargo
what is in terraria hard to shoot at
tired haven
Interestingly enough, I find it easier to aim with clicks than with hovering autoweps
At least on slow weapons that is, like musket
sand umbra
yes
elder mist
a lot of weapons have homing for a reason
hearty yew
lunatic cultist is hard to shoot at
brazen bramble
^
sand umbra
and that reason is to nerf your damage if you can't figure out what's going in
hollow shell
The list kinda ends there
sand umbra
brazen bramble
and he's also resistant to chlorophyte in vanilla
pliant cargo
i have not used chloro bullets for years
because i saw no reason to beyond 1.2's initial launch
that's a good point, cultist is ass
tired haven
He resists any homing in vanilla
elder mist
well
lost agate
aiming is trivial
And here i am missing most of my shot on bosses
elder mist
You don't need to use homing
sand umbra
I never found LC to be hard to hit 
elder mist
but let me just say if you hit every shot
your dps suddenly increases
mind blown, no?
brazen bramble
he's not hard to hit because he has no knockback resistance
sand umbra
most of the time, if I am finding LC hard to hit
it's because I don't understand the weapon's firing arc or speed, and it has nothing to do with see LC
pliant cargo
you're ignoring that with the removal of autofire we're asking for buffs as well
hearty yew
it's also not our job to make phoenix blaster and venus magnum viable in the first place
it's calamity sticking its hand in the pot when it doesn't need to
pliant cargo
i recognize that autofire makes guns better
elder mist
so just counter a shit mechanic by injecting damage onto it
hearty yew
hold the fuck up
shit mechanic
do you want me to go remove autofire from helium flash?
elder mist
yeah no autofire is shit
hearty yew
do you play with omniswing?
hearty yew
okay
pliant cargo
shit mechanic because you cannot click
hearty yew
then I repeat my previous question
hollow shell
Ein you're talkin about how your DPS is lowered because you miss more often
Is the solution not increasing damage per second?
hearty yew
list for me one or more tolerable weapons that do not have autofire
elder mist
that's the thing, why is "just increase it's damage" the general bandaid to counter something that's bad
fervent zealot
literally just have these things as options for people who can aim and want the extra skill of aiming and rapid clicking for more damage
brazen bramble
i can only come up with a shotguns
pliant cargo
seems reasonable to me, really
hollow shell
Because a weapon is non-viable when it gets bad DPS
pliant cargo
counter lack of damage with damage
hollow shell
the D stands for Damage
elder mist
one weapon that I don't use that I'd love if it had autofire is spectre rifle
hearty yew
only dps
pliant cargo
reward having to micromanage fire rate with the potential for higher DPS
devout lava
chlorophyte bullets
lost agate
Actually, i know of a game that has an entire line of non autofire guns
Curiosly, those guns have the highest base damage AND fire rate
...yet most people dont use it
Ozz
hearty yew
chlorophyte bullets are actually a horrible problem in vanilla
sand umbra
I thought the general bandaid to something being bad was to use a different weapon that everybody and their dog uses
lost agate
I literally just made rox a few updates ago
sand umbra
hearty yew
that's the "we didn't bother to put on a bandaid" solution
pliant cargo
ech are you talking about BL2
elder mist
okay here's the thing
hearty yew
i have played calamity through less times than you but I am a player and my opinion matters
flexing hours and boss kills and nohits on me means nothing
elder mist
roxcalibur is a genuinely different mechanic
tired haven
Another interesting fact is that your increased fire rate with non-auto guns is decreased by the fact they are non - auto
Except you also break mouse in process
elder mist
autofire vs non autofire is way WAY different than that
fervent zealot
autofire vs non autofire is literally just having variation
lost agate
Its also more demanding on the brain tbh
fervent zealot
how dare i know that i can click super rapidly and would much rather micromanage my shooting than use an unga bunga hurr durr autofire weapon
hearty yew
you still haven't told me about a single item that you like that does not have autofire. i did not ask for a weapon which you WOULD like, I want to know if there's a single item in this game that you are OK with that doesn't have autofire
elder mist
roxcalibur forces you to be in certain spots and/or lead the boss in certain ways to have--
lost agate
Its more complex to constantly dodge and click several times than just dodge ans hold the button
hearty yew
it is okay if the answer is "there are no weapons I like which have no autofire"
okay
sand umbra
i'm confused, what are we talking about
hearty yew
then play with omniswing
pliant cargo
sniper rifle?
sand umbra
elder mist
I have used omniswing in my free time
queen delta
Even sniper rifle?
pliant cargo
not even that?
hearty yew
you will enjoy the game more because you will have more options
pliant cargo
it fires literally once a second
elder mist
which is why i can say I'd love if spectre rifle had autofire
hearty yew
i love both auto and non auto shotguns in terraria, they are probably among my favorite weapon types
pliant cargo
the sniper rifle is fun because you have to time your clicks or lose frames
brazen bramble
instant damage barrage
tired haven
Shame sniper rifle is bad either way due to low firerate compared to damage
It's, again, almost like vanilla balanced ranged weapons without considering ammo dmg
pliant cargo
one-shotting solar eclipse mobs would not be as satisfying if you just
held the mouse down
lost agate
Why tf did get so heated up outta nowhere again?
hearty yew
now that I understand ein's viewpoint of what he believes is fun
brazen bramble
it's fun to 1-hit enemies with the rifle though
hearty yew
i think there is no reason to fight anymore
tired haven
Yeah, sniper rifle is pretty fun
elder mist
Non autofire weapons just don't feel fun to use because it takes away from engagement with the game, imo
lost agate
We went from a simple suggestion to "fight with teeths and nails if it gets sent to dev server"
hearty yew
i respect your opinion
lost agate
Tf happened
fervent zealot
honestly i disagree with you t here
tired haven
Musket is more fun on its' stage, however
And not because of autofire
hearty yew
@lost agate where moderators aren't moderators and we can discuss game design as we please
🤷
fervent zealot
autofire weapons take away fun by taking out a skilled element and filling in with effortlessness
lost agate
Wh
hearty yew
obviously ein does not like this suggestion
and he is allowed to speak his mind on dev server
if we are considering it for implementation
i encourage him to
it would be wrong if he didn't voice his opinion
brazen bramble
of course
elder mist
Well, I don't want weapons I use to suddenly be out of my arsenal for 0 reason
hearty yew
I do not think he will win or lose, I don't know what will happen
fervent zealot
then learn to use them.
hearty yew
hey, hey
don't throw shots at him
people disagree on what makes a weapon cool or fun
ein doesn't want his fun ruined by other people deciding what his weapons should do
and to be fair
pliant cargo
i want to suggest "make it a config option" but that seems lame
hearty yew
( install omniswing, don't fuck with config )
fervent zealot
literally ^
hollow shell
Weaponout adds an inventory item that grants you omniswing
Should we maybe do the same?
hearty yew
everyone has been butthurt about changes in games before
hollow shell
So it can be legal for nohits or whatever?
hearty yew
( lmao it instantly gets banned from nohits )
hearty yew
nohits should never be a consideration when desigining calamity's features
elder mist
i care about actually enjoying using a weapon
hearty yew
there could be an omniswing lore item
queen delta
Yeah but unfortunately we do have to consider nohits cuz of adrenaline
winged ice
If it isn't fun, then what's the point
pliant cargo
i never would
elder mist
that's for death only at best yata
queen delta
Ive been looking into ideas to change up adrenaline
fervent zealot
honestly imo best case scenario we get a fairly early omniswing item and it reduces damage on anything that doesn't normally have full auto
sand umbra
you actually don't have to consider nohits, tbf
elder mist
rev we test weapons ripperless
brazen bramble
if it was a lore item, maybe it will have a drawback too
pliant cargo
if it's an accessory there is a metric tonne of things i could be using instead of just giving my finger a vacation
fervent zealot
and then we get more things that are actually enjoyable high skill mechanics instead of unga bunga autoswingers
hearty yew
not all high skill weapons have to be not autoswing
do not confuse boring weapon for autofiring weapon
vivid clarity has autofire
and tendon bow does not
fervent zealot
most autofire weapons tend to be spammier and boring, though
hearty yew
i completely disagree
hearty yew
is neptune's bounty boring
elder mist
voltaic climax is boring
hearty yew
void vortex is boring
fervent zealot
yes, climax is boring
pliant cargo
yeah that point is moot
sand umbra
ark of the cosmos' issue is in a completely different ballpark to be entirely frank
hearty yew
is flamethrower boring
fervent zealot
literally just click and you have some circles that do absurd damage
sand umbra
although that's not my fish to fry right now
hearty yew
i think it's fun as fuck
winged ice
hearty yew
yes, I also want to know now
brazen bramble
i need to do a flamethrower playthrough some day, if i could... but eehhh
fervent zealot
i can't because 90% of weapons are autofire these days
hollow shell
I do think Climax isn't very engaging in concept but I do think it's satisfying to use
fervent zealot
handgun and phoenix blaster were very nice
hollow shell
because right at the end of the game you get the "click-to-kill" item
radiant meadow
tbf, I personally don't like voltaic climax
elder mist
Hand gun and pblaster you just point and shoot
hearty yew
nega i am sory that you don't like autofire weapons
hearty yew
because unfortunately this game is full of them
radiant meadow
it's messy to use for yharon
fervent zealot
autofire was a mistake and it has t ainted this game
pliant cargo
nega, that is not a good point
autofire weapons aren't immediately uninteresting, it is when the lack of it is removed that the weapon becomes uninteresting
queen delta
devout lava
You guys are still on the hit or miss topic
hearty yew
proof of said tainting:
1.3: http://terraria.gamepedia.com/Mandible_Blade
1.0: The only autoswing melee weapon in the game is Muramasa.
pliant cargo
as it then becomes too similar to other weapons or loses its theme
hearty yew
1.3: adds preboss autoswing sword
fervent zealot
see, muramasa was good and unique because it was exclusive
hearty yew
1.0: there is exactly one and it's cool because of it
fervent zealot
it also had lower damage than a lot of things to balance it out
pliant cargo
that was what i was going for especially with the venus magnum
elder mist
wasn't minishark in 1.0?
winged ice
Gonna slap this chat with a "that's your opinion, not an actual problem"
elder mist
and also autofire?
fervent zealot
even if it was, it still also has super low damage
hearty yew
minishark ain't melee, friend
cyan lagoon
but that isn't necessarily the point
elder mist
oh melee
pliant cargo
semi auto minishark owo
hollow shell
This entire conversation was a battle of opinion
fervent zealot
minishark loses most of its viability in expert because it deals 1's to most things
queen delta
I mean... if you whack someone with the butt of the minishark, it can be melee
cyan lagoon
and plus it would be completely neglected if it wasn't autofire
lost agate
Huh
pliant cargo
This entire conversation was a battle of opinion
that is what debates tend to be, yes
cyan lagoon
carpel tunnel bullshit
fervent zealot
haha but i have my man
hollow shell
Why did it get this far
elder mist
you do realize bullets have damage right?
fervent zealot
m h m
lost agate
Dont people literally use minishark on rev
elder mist
I use it on death
fervent zealot
we talkin vanilla here, not calamity
elder mist
And have plenty of success while at it
fervent zealot
about how autofire used to be special and now it's just standard
queen delta
Yeah minishark is good
lost agate
Calamity doesnt even buff minishark
fervent zealot
calamity has super epic higher damage bullets though
cyan lagoon
alright but i wanna be honest
fervent zealot
superballs or w/e they are
cyan lagoon
a good amount of weapons could lose the autofire
hearty yew
calamity adds no significant phm damage bullets
winged ice
If it makes a weapon unintuitive to use, why
elder mist
silver bullets are still the best phm bullets by damage
hearty yew
flash rounds hit twice but for no damage, and later in the game HFB's replace them because they also hit twice
cyan lagoon
but most of them would be pre-hm melee weapons
fervent zealot
i'm not even saying remove autofire from everything, though
hearty yew
also i like how we are ONLY talking guns
because gun meta
that's another fun thing to poke at
queen delta
Weapons like sniper rifle, handheld tank, etc could definitely lose autofire
hearty yew
gun ranger meta
sand umbra
yes gun meta
lost agate
sigh
elder mist
sigh
fervent zealot
i'm saying remove it from the things that are just stupid for having it with no reason other than yes
cyan lagoon
such as the slower weapons or some true melee weapons
hollow shell
We're talkin about guns cuz that was Bee's sugg
fervent zealot
^
elder mist
Are you talking gun meta in general or gun meta within the ranger class?
sand umbra
I'll be going now, as I'm not sure what's happening in here anymore aaaaaaa
hearty yew
oh yeah but all the examples of ranged weapons thus far have been gun
hollow shell
True
hearty yew
i brought up tendon bow as an example of a boring and shitty weapon without autofire
pliant cargo
guns are intellectually superior weapons for the higher class of men
brazen bramble
onyxia is viable for scal
hearty yew
^ it's not GREAT but it works
radiant meadow
handheld tank has been mentioned a few times
fervent zealot
most of the early metal stuff is boring and shitty without autofire
lost agate
You know what
fervent zealot
that's a separate issue entirely, though
lost agate
Im just gonna leave this chat idek
elder mist
just pair them with auric armor and voila
hearty yew
scal has 75% DR because auric armor exists
radiant meadow
75% in death, 70% in other modes
queen delta
That makes a difference?
hollow shell
We're working with big numbers so yeah
fervent zealot
if 5% didn't make a difference what good would ravager lore be
sand umbra
also 75% compared to 70% is 1/6 of your damage
elder mist
it does when scal doesn't take 25% reduction from ichor
sand umbra
so like lol
brazen bramble
defense doesn't really help at this point
elder mist
only like 7%
radiant meadow
The damage reduction of Supreme Calamitas works differently from other bosses. Ichor reduces her DR by 10%, and Cursed Inferno reduces her DR by 9%.
radiant meadow
it's multiplicative
When under the effects of Ichor, she will have 63% / 67.5% (death) DR (54% during Boss Rush). When under the effects of Cursed Inferno, she will have 63.7% / 68.25% (death) DR (54.6% during Boss Rush).
elder mist
radiant meadow
70% * 0.9 = 63%
hearty yew
yep
elder mist
yeah it's multiplicative for scal specifically
hearty yew
because remember
radiant meadow
no?
hearty yew
it's not scal specifically
elder mist
is it not??
hearty yew
all post ML bosses
radiant meadow
it's multiplicative for like all enemies
hearty yew
it's multiplicative DR reduction for everything
elder mist
then.... what's the point of marked for death...?
radiant meadow
only ones that are subtracting are prov and yharon
sand umbra
sand umbra
marked would be good
fervent zealot
cough cough this is the anti fun he was talking about earlier
elder mist
I thought ichor was 25% flat
hearty yew
I'm gonna leave now. I'm sorry for raising a fight, Ein
radiant meadow
nah
sand umbra
IF ANYTHING WERE VULNERABLE TO IT
hearty yew
I'm glad we figured out how we were feeling though
elder mist
while marked for death was 50% of current dr
sand umbra
though really that goes for a lot of debuffs
radiant meadow
mfd is literally only good for wof mouth
sand umbra
mouf
radiant meadow
at least for marked magnum
sand umbra
hit mouf w/ markiplier'd magnum for big damage
radiant meadow
anything else relevant with dr in phm has only 5% dr
sand umbra
I guess
radiant meadow
which is reduced to 2.5%
fervent zealot
huge difference innit
sand umbra
and by the time enemies have high enough DR for it to make a difference
guess what, everything important's immune to it because you can inflict it at their tier
and now I'll go before I inevitably slip into another hour-long rant about the current state of debuffs
I need to focus on things
🚟
fervent zealot
debuffs are a fat mess correct
i don't feel like having a war about the fact that they literally need percentage based damage to survive against ichor
so bye
pliant cargo
markiplier'd magnum
lost agate
Oh we went back to this
pliant cargo
ok
mighty jewel
I play deathmode+masochist mode(Fargo), with both mods having natural boss spawn rates,
It is low key impossible to play at night time
I kill a boss, and in 1-2 min another one spawns
So I survived this far using cosmolight to play during day
sand umbra
and how does this relate to it being a Calamity issue
frail mantle
that's not really Calamity's fault
queen delta
winged ice
mighty jewel
Combining both made the situation really shit
hollow shell
Yeah that seems expected, lol
mighty jewel
Legit unplayable at night time XD
distant gyro
1 spawn every 14 minutes given the right condition isn't that bad
mighty jewel
Barely recovering, EOC/twins/prime,etc spawn
Ok
I think I'll drop to revengeance then, it's a bit too much for me
distant gyro
I barely even get a death spawn
mighty jewel
I had to use jam for wof and cultist fight tbh, the sheer DMG and tankiness coming from both mods is bullshit
Especially deathmode
distant gyro
you can just evade mech spawns by going underground within 1 minute after a "Something is approaching message"
same thing for EoC
mighty jewel
Ok
distant gyro
death mode spawns are forgiving in a sense that you can just avoid them completely
arctic notch
Change the Dungeon's Generation so that the Abyss doesn't consume the dungeon, or spawn it's enemies outside of the abyss.
Why? The Dungeon is quite important, and you could lose chests due to the retardation of the Abyss' generation, or have enemies you're grinding be overridden by Abyss enemies.
hollow shell
You see
opal barn
Yeah, it was attempted already
hollow shell
It's not the Abyss's generation which is retardation
because it just goes straight down, little variance
It's the Dungeon which can sprawl all the way to the edge of the world in order to get fucked
opal barn
And we can't really put it on the other side because then it would clash with the Thorium biome
arctic notch
I edited it. How about that?
hollow shell
There have been some proposed solutions to preventing the Dungeon from getting eated by the Abyss sometimes
but so far nothing has been without cons
opal barn
Dungeon Generation is hardcoded is it not
hollow shell
Changing vanilla generation is
difficult
jovial spire
What sort of cons, if you don't mind me asking?
frail mantle
Redcode™©
hollow shell
Mostly that they'd all cause a lot of programming headaches
just generating the Abyss before the Dungeon
or having a Dungeon+Abyss subbiome thing when they collide (which still keeps the blocks the chests stand on)
void kelp
iirc similar discussions were had in #other-mod-talk regarding how the jungle temple generates
jovial spire
I cant tell if the dungeon eating the abyss would be worse than the abyss eating the dungeon
jovial spire
At least you can make artificial dungeon
half basalt
then they could just change abyss gen
jovial spire
Can't make an artificial abyss
half basalt
abyss eating dungeon? too fuckin bad
jovial spire
plus imagine going through your dungeon and suddenly you start taking 30 damage per second and hear creepy music
arctic notch
Dungeon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Abyss
bitter topaz
you didn't really need 40+ > there
please refrain from just making messages which majorly consist of just 1 character, please
arctic notch
Ok.
jovial spire
Make Crystl Crusher's Alt fire also destroy walls
Why this should be added: Seeing as how the alt fire is mean the destroy everything, it would be nice if it also destroyed walls as well so you can wreck more havoc with it, and would make it so that you don't have to spend more than a few minutes destroying walls while attempting to clear a huge area.
Any criticism?
queen delta
good
half basalt
fine
tired haven
inb4 triactis gets an alt fire
signal prairie
^
brazen bramble
I think we should have a different item that destroys walls
hollow shell
Like a Crystyl Hammer (Hamaxe?) of some kind
perhaps not also themed around crystal but at least the same tier
karmic stone
brazen bramble
Yeah
hollow shell
Nah, Grax is early Post-ML
It'd have to be an upgrade
brazen bramble
No, grax is too low tier i think
civic pond
oh well 😔
queen delta
Leave the extra emote slots to collect dust i guess 
civic pond
let all the fargo echs migrate here
sand umbra
civic pond
jesus christ
hollow shell
ashen warren
Glowing hellstone would make it kinda trivial to mine.
loud steeple
Suggestion : add the JoJoStands made/helped made by @peak dagger discord to the #other-discords .
Reason : the mod is quickly rising in popularity and by adding the discord server link to the other discords channel will help it grow even more.
Anyone got any problems with me dropping it in suggestions/any thing I should change before I drop it in their?
peak dagger
Well, I don't think my mod is too big yet (content wise) and we still need to rework stuff which we're already doing
radiant meadow
@loud steeple can you send the invite here first? I want to look around there
peak dagger
https://discord.gg/EYKBhpK it's this
hearty yew
fun fact
hellstone emitted light in Terraria 1.0
it was removed at some point for unknown reasons
proven tide
@ashen warren why, exactly?
ashen warren
iirc it’s useless against anything post yharon
Maybe even useless against yharon himself
I don’t really see the point in using it when I can use the chad ark of the cosmos
or anything else post yharon, really
hollow idol
this is why UHF needs progress again
sterile moon
@ashen warren how is murasama not good? It rewards those who use it with risk.
hollow shell
You've gotta edit some elaboration into that suggestion please
queen sail
Because it’s placed at a point in the game where true melee is not viable at all
hollow shell
Boss Rush exists
queen sail
Ah yes
hollow shell
If it's not good in the boss rush
then add that to the suggestion
cuz right now it's real vague
queen sail
When there are infinitely better options than sword that does meme damage at a range where you’d probably die
hollow shell
Sounds great
queen sail
We already discussed a suggestion about moving Murasama to post DoG instead of post Yharon
Since there’s more chances for it to shine there
It easily gets outclassed by both the dev and exo weapons in terms of usability and versatility by the time it’s unlocked
devout seal
Wasn't that where it originally was?
ashen warren
I mean yeah fair
queen sail
Or would you just end up using Exomeme or AotC, or even fuckin Scarlet Devil
Murasama is powerful but at the point you get it there’s way too many better options
sand umbra
see here's the thing
Murasama does not lack damage
it lacks any semblance of viable range for SCal
which is the big reason moving it back to post-DoG would help it get so much more use
queen sail
The only time someone true melee run’d scal wasn’t even true melee
zenith hazel
honestly, I’d just wait and see how it fares against draedon
sand umbra
since then you can meme DoG farming, seasonal moons, Yharhar phase 1, and Darksun bullshit with it.
ashen warren
All I’m gonna say about the AoTC is that it’s broken
queen sail
They just used the asteroid sword
zenith hazel
maybe it’d get some usage when there’s another boss jammed between scal and yharon
ashen warren
Yeah cause true melee scal is basically impossible
zenith hazel
or it could just shred draedon but idrk
ashen warren
Without tanking, at least
queen sail
Wait that makes perfect sense to be used against Draedon actually
proven tide
inb4 drae is also a projectile meme boss
proven tide
Murasama vs. the nanomemes guy
queen sail
proven tide
hmmmm.
zenith hazel
we’ll see
sand umbra
like
Twins: maybe
Destroyer: hell no
Prime: Prime
sand umbra
true melee does not function against the Mechs
and virtually the only constant in our knowledge of Draedon's fight is that he's going to utilize the exo mechs
zenith hazel
if adrenaline murasama can completely skip yharon p1 then who knows
sand umbra
adrenaline 👏 is 👏 not 👏 a 👏 baseline
proven tide
it should be
queen sail
technically yharon p1 is unskippable now bc he’s programmed to stop taking damage at a certain threshold
zenith hazel
well it’s not like you’re not gonna use adrenaline while using true melee either
proven tide
bosses are not balanced around rage and adrenaline as much as they should be
also that 
zenith hazel
true melee in itself relies on rippers more than common playstyles
sand umbra
also, with all due respect
queen sail
Rippers are just used in general tbh
sand umbra
it's concerning all difficulties
ashen warren
Because enemy projectiles exist
sand umbra
the point is that the Mechs cannot be reasonably true melee'd
ashen warren
That goes for all hm bosses iirc
queen sail
Keep in mind we’re talking about a game where melee isn’t even melee
It’s just mage w/o mana
ashen warren
They all tend to fire projectiles/dash
queen sail
zenith hazel
well of course you’re gonna be able to use murasama well in expert and normal considering you can just facetank
sand umbra
and given that Draedon will most likely employ beefed-up Mechs, it's hard to imply that Murasama will really
get much of a use
zenith hazel
again, I’d just wait and see before jumping to conclusions
zenith hazel
we don’t even know how they’re gonna use their attacks to leave room open for murasama
sand umbra
and that's precisely why I'm skeptical
there are too many variables up in the air right now for me to reasonably believe, based on my own knowledge of the existing Mechs, that Murasama will be massively viable against Draedon and his exo mechs
queen sail
How is true melee not viable for destroyer
:what:
You ever see how fast baghnaks meme him
sand umbra
.
do you understand how close you need to be for that to work
like you might as well be standing in Destroyer
sand umbra
and on higher difficulties in particular that's a fat no
queen sail
It wouldn’t exactly matter considering the dps of the baghnaks will probably kill him faster than his body segments can kill you
sand umbra
and furthermore, that doesn't mean the other two Mechs are fine
specifically, Prime
who just kind of exists and nullifies half of the viable strategies in the world 
quick ice
Spaz is a nightmare for true melee
queen sail
Twins is a big no for true melee
sand umbra
ah yes, Spazmatism too
queen sail
There’s no way in hell you’re gonna survive spaz
sand umbra
Spazmatism exists and shits on anything true melee
quick ice
Retinazer is not nearly as bad though
queen sail
Also why are the Twins like
The only really good fight out of all the mech bosses in vanilla
sand umbra
because the Twins actually handle a multi-part boss fight well
quick ice
Frankly true-Melee just isn’t gonna be viable for a lot of bosses, and there’s not much the devs can do to change that
(At least little they can do to change it without affecting other play styles a lot)
sand umbra
I'll believe that when people stop ignoring the Brand of the Inferno's mechanic
queen sail
One dies to a prehm game breaker in 5 seconds and the other is just a copy paste of the old one with new arms
sand umbra
quick ice
What does brand of the inferno do again?
sand umbra
brand of the inferno is the original block and parry sword
queen sail
Right click to parry -> next attack will do 500% dmg
quick ice
Also yeah I agree that twins are the only good mech-Boss fight, and one of the only good Hardmode bosses for vanilla in general
sand umbra
the issue is that nobody knows about it because it's a drop from the worst event in existence
quick ice
Alongside Duke-Fishron and Lunatic (just my opinion here)
queen sail
That’s why you download Faster OOA and Miniboss NPC
quick ice
Oh, I like old ones Army
sand umbra
hence why nobody knows this weapon exists normally
queen sail
Ah yes
quick ice
True, enemies are all quite bland
sand umbra
but yeah, BotI's a game-changer for true melee because like
you could expand upon that idea
a lot
queen sail
Let me wait two hours for the next wave as the game tries to ensure i am properly prepared for 3 kinda of enemies
sand umbra
and instantaneously true melee would become 5 billion times better
like. having that blocking and parrying as a part of the greater...
...subclass?
quick ice
It’d be nice
sand umbra
weapon classification?
quick ice
But shouldn’t be incorporated into Calamity
queen sail
Honestly can I just remake Terraria gameplay to just become a modified 2D Devil May Cry game
:echprime:
sand umbra
But shouldn't be incorporated into Calamity
queen sail
Where literally everything doesn’t succumb to crutch class memes
sand umbra
Give me one good reason why a mod that tries to make true melee actually relevant shouldn't add mechanics that make it more enjoyable than just facetanking.
quick ice
Calamity already shits on enough of Terrarian normal mechanics
quick ice
nope nvm...
sand umbra
It's a mod, for god's sake.
What the hell's it matter if it changes vanilla stuff? That's the point of a mod.
quick ice
True, but it’d go better as a different mod entirely
queen sail
Keep in mind that whatever people dab on Calamity for doing, ReLogic will probably do worse
quick ice
Or to the least a configurable option*
sand umbra
Vanilla changes, especially when most of them improve the game or are to bring some semblance of balance, are not going to be a config.
queen sail
“Lmao Calameme has lore in my SANDBOX game, makes the game look edgy”
“Here’s our lore that we worked on for one day, did not revise, and is permanently official!”
“”
quick ice
Terraria lore is bad
Calamities is better but I’m still waiting for some of the WoG stuff to be put on a wiki so it can be considered fact
queen sail
“Lmao Calameme trying to be special and making its own thrower”
“Hey, we kinda didn’t think the Throwing class was working out so well, so instead of trying to build upon it we’re scrapping it entirely and giving Ranger even more options to become morbidly obese with!”
“”
quick ice
Calameme making rogue separate from thrown is dumb as hell
sand umbra
I agree with you --- for all the wrong reasons --- but at the same time it's not my focus to a point where I'll really ramble about it.
quick ice
Re-Logic May have made a mistake combining it with ranged, but calamity making rogue separate from throwing is pointless as of now
sand umbra
I have way bigger fish to fry, and quite frankly I don't need to focus on rogue being a separate thing.
quick ice
Yeah
ashen warren
oh boy it's that time
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/558136223433228298/558136745275817999/Discord_Js3EC5x6cL.png
Why rogue is separate.
107th time
quick ice
If rogue was made to where it had some truly unique aspects it’d be fine, but as it stands it’s throwing with the psycho knife cloaking effect for everything with bonus speed
sand umbra
I mean, the rogue expansion's coming in literally the next update.
quick ice
True
sand umbra
So I wouldn't harp too much on the stealth mechanics that are going to be massively overhauled and actually relevant in a coming update.
queen sail
5 months ago?
quick ice
And if it does good, my opinions are always open to change
hollow shell
More than that, Kirb...
ashen warren
queen sail
Anyways like I said before
sand umbra
My thing is moreso just rogue being, on a fundamental level, a rebranded thrower class.
That's what it is, or at least at the moment.
quick ice
^
queen sail
Whatever things people dab on Calamity for, ReLogic will probably do even worse
ashen warren
calamity does tend to have a focus issue
so stuff just sits around
queen sail
Because at this point they don’t even understand what their game is
quick ice
And as it stands right now, rogue just makes calamity harder to blend with other mods since their throwing functions are so similar but incompatible due to class-type
ashen warren
The problem is trying to understand the clusterfuck that's terraria.
hollow shell
I've said it before but if #suggestions-voting has taught me anything is that Calamity has a lot of stuff in it and a lot of things that people think need fixing
ashen warren
just let it do
sand umbra
a lot of things that people think need fleshing out, too
hollow shell
Both Calamity and Terraria, I guess
Because fixing Terraria is part of Calamity's problem
quick ice
Calamity does have tons of stuff that needs fixing/fleshing out
sand umbra
Astral Infectionmmmmmmmmmm
hollow shell
The problem is we can't be doing everything at once
quick ice
The update after Draedon should (just my opinion here) focus entirely on fixing its biomes
Or at least start fixing them
queen sail
You guys got a calendar though right
sand umbra
usually this is the part where I say
"then. don't?
literally just actually focus on a biome and flesh it out, and make sure it's good"
but this time I'm not retarded and I know the response that'd follow
queen sail
Also we got a crag revamp coming eventually so :pogai:
quick ice
Any details on crag revamp?
queen sail
No
proven tide
damn is this time to commit
hollow shell
Not soon
quick ice
Cause that biome is the one that needs it the most
proven tide
writing that one thing in the background
sand umbra
because no matter what someone is going to scream for that next boss that isn't even entirely important compared to fleshing out existing content
queen sail
They also have a schedule they planned out
hollow shell
We do indeed
quick ice
Is the schedule open for public viewing?
hollow shell
No because that'd be spoilers
queen sail
Last time I suggested postponing Draedon to flesh out content, the response I got was that they’d be pissy because Draedon’s been postponed for long enough
hollow shell
it'd be literally everything we're planning on adding at the moment
sand umbra
and that's the point that I was making
there's no easy way about it no matter what you focus on
hollow shell
Draedon has been postponed for a long time.
The reason why he's coming after the Rogue update is because of that.
sand umbra
focus Draedon, people are gonna get pissy that other content isn't being fleshed out
proven tide
Draedon being postponed would have been alright if the postponing content was more than a load of tiny tweaks and unnecessary melee bloat
sand umbra
focus fleshing out other existing content, people are gonna get pissy that Draedon can't get his shit kicked in yet
hollow shell
At the risk of getting Begoned by devs
I'm going to quote our schedule doc for the section that says which update Draedon is being added:
"yes, this is happening this update, it has to, it’s been too long"
proven tide
If YouTube's taught me anything it's that people want nothing but SCal
quick ice
When was S-Cal released?
hollow shell
A long long time ago
hollow shell
Since before me
queen sail
:hmmm:
quick ice
2018 long time ago?
hollow shell
Like, 2016 long time ago
quick ice
is that a joke or are you mistaking S-Cal for Calamitas doppleganger?
proven tide
how about the devs look to the community to see what we'd like to see next
hollow shell
Supreme Calamitas has been in the mod since 2016, Krant.
queen sail
Not balanced gameplay
proven tide
Not as a decree as to what must be done
quick ice
Wait what
proven tide
but simply an indicator of where waters lie
quick ice
But this mod started in like 2015
proven tide
some sort of simple 🅱oll
hollow shell
You might not remember her from back then (I dunno how new you are here)
because back then Yharon and SCal were kinda shitty compared to DoG
queen sail
Didn’t the last time we did that we got OC weapons
hollow shell
DoG was the de-facto final boss
quick ice
Yeah I remember the mod back then
proven tide
can we have dimension cloning dog back please
hollow shell
Then SCal got the big rework which added the arena box and the bullet hells
queen sail
Scal back then was just DoppelCal with some new stuff, ig
proven tide
i reached dog in my playthrough right as the purple sprite and second phase got added
hollow shell
I played DoG when he multiplied himself and had big crocodile mouth
proven tide
I started Calamity when he was still the Armored Digger lookin ass but reached him just as the rework was happening
hollow shell
That fight was really fun tbh
proven tide
Can we have it back
quick ice
Man back before I abandoned terraria, this mod only had 7-8 bosses
queen sail
Was there any reason why double dogs got removed
proven tide
replace the laser walls with more dog
quick ice
And S-Cal wasn’t one of them
hollow shell
Cuz it made no sense and it was a gimmick, lol
sand umbra
because it made endless DoGs
proven tide
i see no problem
hollow shell
There would never be more than 2
zenith hazel
wait what’s the suggestion here again? I’m lost
proven tide
there's no suggestion
queen sail
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh
sand umbra
correct, but
if you killed the first DoG before getting the second one to 25% or whatever the shit
then upon the second one reaching 25%
hollow shell
It was some shit about balancing and then the convo shifted to Calamity's focus and now we're here
proven tide
we're currently ambling about the point of reversion vs. progression with development
sand umbra
another DoG would spawn
proven tide
only if one had already died
zenith hazel
balancing back then was wack tbh
proven tide
you can have as many as you like over time but it could only have two at a given moment
"back then"
you just fucking wait
queen sail
sand umbra
balancing is still wack iirc
zenith hazel
less wack than before at least
quick ice
Balancing is even harder because Calamity took a shit on the normal Terraria balance
queen sail
How are you supposed to balance yourself to a game with no sense of balance
zenith hazel
because vanilla balancing is ass
queen sail
A bow at the beginning of hm was a viable moon lord weapon
proven tide
Why don't we just narrow all playstyle and item options to a scant couple by the end of the game
quick ice
But it’s the reason why balancing is so hard for Calamity
proven tide
what is variety
zenith hazel
how the hell do you make a pair of wings that you buy for a platinum from the start hardmode better than most wings in hardmode?
proven tide
badly
proven tide
time for wing gimmick hour, right?
sand umbra
imagine not just cucking some Ice Golems
hollow shell
I'm fucking hype for wing effects
sand umbra
frozen wings gang
zenith hazel
I’m just referring to accessibility
queen sail
Here’s 8 variety of wood armors that have the same amount of defense
hollow shell
Currently most wings do jack god damn shit different from each other except appearance
quick ice
Oh yeah, why did calamity expand on Sandstorm when they could do stuff for blizzard too?
zenith hazel
you have to jump over so many god damn hoops to get to something like christmas wings or mothron wings, when you can just buy a pair or kill some ice golems for a better pair
queen sail
Ruin most of terraria’s movement
hollow shell
That's been a suggestion, Krant
queen sail
Bc now everything is just free movement
quick ice
Sandstorm is cool enough in Hardmode and didn’t need a 2nd miniboss, while blizzard is boring as all hell
zenith hazel
blizzard also cucks your visibility more
quick ice
Yeah I figure it has been, can we expect to see blizzard content at some point in the next year perhaps?
queen sail
You say bloat as if all it gets is one boss
quick ice
It does?
queen sail
:echthink:
sand umbra
yes
proven tide
the fuck is the difference between frigid arrows and icicle arrows
why do both of them exist
sand umbra
hell, Cryo literally summons a blizzard on spawning
proven tide
why do we have three ice-themed full weapon sets at one goddamn tier
(not to mention armour and accs)
hollow shell
Icicle Arrows are Crystal Bullets but arrows
Arctic Arrows inflict Glacial State
That's the diff
proven tide
in terms of actual meaningfulness
queen sail
Ornate Shield is useless, next topic
hollow shell
I'm getting a slight bit tired of this
proven tide
it doesn't have to be tbh
quick ice
The tiny problems don’t need to be mentioned
If they don’t have a noticeable impact on a game then they don’t need to be addressed right now
proven tide
the question is what the priorities are
hollow shell
Our current priority is fleshing out rogue, yes
and then adding the boss we've been putting off for a million years
among (many) other changes
quick ice
I assume Yharim will be a long wait too?
hollow shell
Pretty long yeah
queen sail
Yharim has a lot of expectations tbh
quick ice
Good, we don’t need more bosses
hollow shell
Farther off than Crag rework
quick ice
Will crag rework include new enemies?
quick ice
Current enemies suck since they’re all very easy to fight and kill
To the least current ones need an HP buff to be a threat, since they’re all jokes by the end of Pre-HM
terse rampart
Buffing stats
Is so cheap i hate it
Make em more intresting
Maybe zombies can rip off their arm
And use it
Or throw it at you
hollow shell
Armed Zombies already exist :P
terse rampart
Just make the ai smarter
And give more attacks
To the enemy
That are dodgeable
hollow shell
Cryogen has a big complex AI but his numbers were low for a while, he was kind of a joke
so now his numbers are going up
terse rampart
Oh ye in that case fine
smoky wagon
Post-ml enemies need more advanced ai
Whenever that part of the game has more fleshed out exploration it should be a priority
reef plover
because scorn eater silently crashing into you isn't advanced
zenith hazel
stop with the emote spam please, also why?
radiant pawn
what could you do with a space expansion
even if space is one of the most underdeveloped and lame biomes in vanilla
what more could you do
brazen bramble
well you can't really expand the world when it's already created
also exodium clusters exist
quick ice
Allow me to prove my point for why Brimstone enemies need a buff