#suggestions-discussion
sand umbra
(read: many of the Fargo's Soul random drops are of a damage type the boss already possesses a drop for)
also, bosses that have multiple weapons for a single class
to give an example, the Heat Ray (vanilla), the Staff of Earth (vanilla) and The Landslide (Fargo's Soul random drop) are all magic weapons that can drop from Golem
how do you decide which one to drop?
void kelp
also, multiclassing
in non-class exclusive runs who wouldn’t use summons as a bonus dps source but whoops they killed the boss
lost agate
Having stuff drop depending on what you hit the boss with would be too convenient
Use mage item on yharon p2, instantly gets yharim crystal
sand umbra
and for Golem he has no summon drop so whoops now you get nothing for having a summon kill the boss
this is true of multiple other bosses that have no weapons for a specific class (or in cases such as the Mechs, no weapons at all)
lost agate
Still too convenient
sand umbra
overall there are too many inconsistencies and too many balance changes that would be necessary for this to make sense
lost agate
And very complex to pull off too
sand umbra
like getting fucking cosmic discharge. for killing DoG once with Soul Edge or Banshee Hook or something
void kelp
eeyup.
can suggestions that haven’t been submit receive ❌ to basically say “please stop submitting it”
foggy kindle
Aren't those summons can be right-clicked to target specific unit? Idk about homing weapons though
sand umbra
see you're making a hefty assumption here
and that assumption is that summon targeting works as it should
empty geyser
And also, not everyone plays classlock.
hollow shell
It's a common enough trope to be good reasoning
Locking yourself to just yoyos is stupid
but locking yourself to only one damage type is pretty common
empty geyser
So if you wanted a breaker blade for some reason but your summon succd WoF’s final dic
sand umbra
yeah it's pretty stu--
empty geyser
Then big oof
sand umbra
hey
at least I actually know how to use the damn things unlike half the people that try them
e
void kelp
which is what I mentioned w multiclassing
devout seal
aren't the brimlings meant to make brim enrage?
void kelp
Tbh proposing a change in what summons target would probably help out w that
terse sundial
no, the Brimlings do not cause any enrage to fire. @devout seal
devout seal
.. since when?
didn't they used to make brim herself attack faster or smth?
karmic stone
When killed iirc
devout seal
Well that's surprising.
hoary hinge
@honest crane please explain how this would work for treasure bags
civic pond
uh
rogue expansion is coming and i think they already said stealth was going to be changed
left crest
ye
rugged mist
civic pond
its already planned then
civic pond
:okbuddy:
honest crane
I've decided to change the suggestion :
Add : Add an item or a config option, that will, Make bosses guarante dropping their respective weapon (or class based acessory) based on the last class of damage they where hit with. If they were hit by a classless weapon or by a type calamity doesn't recognize, then it can go back to random.
Example :
- You kill King Slime with a melee weapon in Normal Mode, because there are no weapons that King Slime drops the drop pool is not changed.
- You kill EoC with a summon weapon in Expert Mode, because EoC doesn't have a rogue weapon nothing changes when you open the treasure bag.
- You kill Desert Scourge with a summon weapon in Normal Mode, Desert Scourge drops athe Seabound Staff and the Seabound Staff is removed from the drop pool, and the possible other items (the ones that would of been given to you) get given to you.
Reason : It can be annoying when you get a weapon that isn't your class and have to refight that boss just to get that weapon.
void kelp
still a bad suggestion tbh
what about for multiplayer? why would you need that specific config?
devout lava
Also mini suggestion
HEART OF THE ELEMENTS
give us the option to turn off the flower boots
void kelp
also @ blob your suggestion is honestly redundant considering the rogue rework/expansion coming soon
devout lava
ITS A SUGGESTIONJHVBKBIYGJYGJYGJYFM
civic pond
i literally just said it was already planned aa
void kelp
I don’t think the devs need to see someone telling them what to do if they already know what they’re gonna do and fix
queen delta
Just make it so the first time is guaranteed. The rest is rng
honest crane
Ok
devout lava
Yall are a debuff
Gonna spend a plat reforging
void kelp
also, maybe for the HoTE sugg, have it also be toggled by visibility?
hollow shell
I was going to ping Blob and say that rogue expansion is coming and rogue stealth will be updated along with it
but it seems
that has already been made clear
void kelp
I hope it has, rover
hollow shell
(is "since the comminity has a damage debuff" supposed to be you acknowledging that rogue update is coming?)
(because its unintelligible)
void kelp
completely unnecessary tbh
distant gyro
Yea
half basalt
Also just a bad stab ngl 
also, so uh
i just went through what thomas and stardust were talking about
gusty geode
You think generating stealth faster the lower the light level around you would make for a good mechanic?
A really dark arena would mean a potentially higher dps depending on the boss
With the trade-off being you need to keep a great distance from bosses that give off a lot of light (like, say, Yharon) and you won't be able to see ones that don't
half basalt
I always thought redcode was intentional so as to prevent people from making harmful mods, is it unintentional?
void kelp
it’s completely unintentional
half basalt
ah
void kelp
terraria was basically this one guy’s foray into game making for the first time
so a lot of the code is pretty much just whatever worked
half basalt
(for his first one, it's pretty damn good)
But they probably should've gotten a professional coder
void kelp
a lot of indie game devs started off like that :3c
half basalt
tru
void kelp
iirc terraria was basically his passion project
gusty geode
I hear they're trying to fix redcode for 1.4
If that's true
There'll basically be one final mega-shitfest as tmodloader and major mods get adjusted
Then after that things should be a lot easier
void kelp
hypothetical
sand umbra
It's all a hypothetical that rests on the assumption that 1.4 will change the codebase drastically.
If it does not...
...well, we may be facing something of a problem.
void kelp
oh! related to suggestions bc I wanna stay on topic:
gusty geode
Won't we be facing a problem either way 
void kelp
does anyone else 
when you notice like,, rover or ozz star your sugg
void kelp
on mobile you can see all users who reacted
ruby cobalt
you can see that regardless of mobile/desktop
sand umbra
oh I'm aware of how to look at it
I just don't care
as long as a sugg of mine reaches 90 stars, I'm okay
void kelp
ohhh
half basalt
(Now what happens when your suggestion doesn't reach 90 stars 
)
hollow idol
@tardy flume calamity vanity mod has that
hollow idol
np
tardy flume
i didn't even know there was a vanity mod
hollow idol
should be in #other-discords
hollow shell
It's officially endorsed but made by different peeps
tardy flume
got it, thank you guys
hollow shell
👍
ashen warren
You could do that.
but why?
Go fast has reductionist humor my man.
terse sundial
It's for the Sonic meme
rugged mist
Sonic is my name, speed is game
terse sundial
Yeah, 9/10ths of me wants to slap a warn for the suggestion, but technically it's valid
olive mist
rolling around at the speed of sound
ashen warren
that's the thing though, go fast is part of the gotta go fast thing
olive mist
yeah i know, but the addition of that one more word makes it better
terse sundial
Yeah, now it's just for the meme
olive mist
mhm
proven tide
no
ashen warren
you are nitpicking and biased i win bye bye 
terse sundial
That's a warn then
olive mist
is that a dunkey reference? lol
proven tide
guess who talked themselves into a warn 
ashen warren
sand umbra
i am very confused
which one of you is who 
hollow shell
If you're gonna suggest that
you better have a pretty good reason edited into it
ashen warren
good question thomas
hollow shell
(tbh these should have been the pfps in the first place)
proven tide
fuck off
ashen warren
hollow shell
sand umbra
actually wait a minute I know which is who because one of you DMd me the other day
the other didn't, and even if they had, I'd know exactly what convo I had with who
terse sundial
I already killed it
hollow shell
I'd say use Discord notes but they recently placed a limit on how many people you can note
so
proven tide
why
hollow shell
Use other methods of keeping track of people.
terse sundial
it's dumb
ashen warren
notes limit wat
terse sundial
makes my job more difficult
proven tide
hmu with a :mantiswhy:
ashen warren
proven tide
ty
queen delta
Why are you using inferior ech thomas
sand umbra
proven tide
thomech
ashen warren
queen delta
is better than 
hollow shell
support the suggestion to revoke the limit here:
https://support.discordapp.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360048478352-Increase-the-limit-of-user-created-notes-or-remove-the-restraint-
hollow shell
This is suggestions_discussion because it's a suggestion for Discord
ashen warren
loopholes
terse sundial
hollow shell
Anyway, nice, meme gone
proven tide
if a mod's involved it's legal 😉
terse sundial
only a trial mod still, byeah, this convo is done
proven tide
by the way
this rogue sugg is still ❕
what's the verdict, considering next big patch is going to be the rogue update?
late cypress
That rogue thingy seems like a good suggestion because standing still is not viable at all base calamity
terse sundial
Penumbra potion allowed for this before its nerf, and it made rogue stealth/stealth strike extremely powerful
ashen warren
Spamming max stealth was op?
queen delta
I like the sugma tho
terse sundial
Basically a constant death mode rage buff at Auric tiers
late cypress
no
queen delta
Rogue stealth is too dangerous to be utilized
terse sundial
Rogue Stealth already has plans to be changed to make it more useful
I guess it's fine, but unlikely to go anywhere if it reaches 90
hollow shell
I'll un-❕ I guess. We do have notation in the dev server for if a suggestion is already planned
so
it's fine if it gets sent
terse sundial
Yep
gusty geode
You think generating stealth faster the lower the light level around you would make for a good mechanic?
A really dark arena would mean a potentially higher dps depending on the boss
With the trade-off being you need to keep a great distance from bosses that give off a lot of light (like, say, Yharon) and you won't be able to see ones that don't
Totally not copy-pasted because the original was ignored
sand umbra
dashes can be chosen
hollow shell
Sounds a bit more like a potion or accessory effect than how stealth in general works
sand umbra
dashes such as that of Statis' Belt of Curses do not give off light
hollow shell
I do think it would be interesting to strategize your build based around light emission
pliant bone
Yeah but like that isnt a rogue gear anymore
sand umbra
or that summoner doesn't get a more. unique line/set of accessories perhaps based around necromancy and/or Calamitas and friends
given that Statis is a rogue through and through in the lore if we go by class definitions
instead Summoner just gets
an upgrade of a rogue item
that still gives rogue bonuses anyway because it isn't sure what it wants to be
hearty plaza
*a combination of a summoner item and a rogue item
sand umbra
see that's my thing
summoner's only "Elemental" tier accessory (e.g. Gauntlet and Quiver) is an accessory that is effectively a combination of rogue and summoner items --- it's not even strictly a summoner accessory like the others are
it's an oddity amongst the five for that reason.
It gives bonuses for two classes, as if to say "here, use summons along with this epic class that's probably better in every way", and truthfully it doesn't really grant a wide variety of meaningful boosts for summoners.
There is no practical benefit to utilizing Statis' Belt of Curses as a summoner over simply staying with Statis' Curse and the Asgardian Aegis aside from dodging, which strictly speaking will not help you that much as the Aegis already provides in that department.
(To anyone about to point out the instant-kill effect: it does not work while any bosses are alive, nor does it function against event mini-bosses --- keep in mind, events in general are likely the only thing you'd ever need such an effect for by this point in the game.)
hearty plaza
constant jumping of course
sand umbra
You do not need constant jumping.
You do not need the ability to climb on walls.
You do not need shadowflame powers for your minions, an issue lying within Statis' Curse as well.
Minion knockback against many late-game opponents is completely arbitrary.
The instant-kill effect does not function enough to be preferable for most practical purposes.
hearty plaza
so basically we can literally just stay with blessing
sand umbra
You can literally just stick with Statis' Curse and the Asgardian Aegis, the latter of which you should be getting post-DoG anyway, and nothing really changes enough for it to be significantly worse than obtaining the Belt of Curses.
hearty plaza
the only difference between Statis's Curse and Statis's Blessing is the shadowflame
iirc
and since we've already said that we don't need the shadowflame, you can literally stick with statis's blessing
hearty plaza
... which is a post-Plantera thing
lost agate
you can stack the accesories
hearty plaza
imagine your best accesssory being obtainable after Plantera
sand umbra
you can stack the accessories
I am aware of this, and took it into account.
But for Belt of Curses in particular, I'd hardly call it viable given the wide range of accessories that become available and should be utilized after the Devourer of Gods' defeat.
From what my research tells me, Statis' Belt of Curses does not actually grant any summoner-specific bonuses, aside from the instant kill effect, that Statis' Curse alone does not.
lost agate
yet somehow summon is one of the strongest
hearty plaza
Belt of Curses is arguably better for rogue because rogue at least benefits from upgrading
sand umbra
And both of the other niches it could fill --- rogue bonuses and dashing --- are specialized in and filled better by Nanotech and the Asgardian Aegis respectively.
radiant meadow
There was an idea to give summoner a different post doggo acc
And move belt to post prov
sand umbra
I'd honestly prefer summoner accessories being more focused around necromancy and the like.
Necromancy and witchcraft.
hearty plaza
so kind of like thorium's Phylactery?
sand umbra
It seems to be at least a semi-consistent theme in the base game, and it would fit well with some other sects of Calamity such as the necromancer who is currently the last superboss you fight.
sand umbra
It's the truth, is it not?
She's the first and the last because she's the only one.
hearty plaza
and we're talking about now
sand umbra
Still, it would work more consistently with the theme introduced in the base game, it makes sense given what Summoner is at a fundamental level, and it would allow for the existing items to be potentially attributed to rogue?
Again, given the fact that Statis within the official Calamity lore is quite clearly a rogue and there is nothing within current record to point to him being a summoner.
hearty plaza
rogue having 2 elemental-level items that could be combined post SCal (or post something even later than that) would be cool
sand umbra
You know what I think?
Belt of Curses as rogue elemental-tier accessory. Statis is a rogue through and through, it only really makes sense --- it even provides some rogue bonuses already, along with being a straight upgrade to Statis' Ninja Belt, the earlier rogue item utilized to craft it.
Nanotech as a potential post-Draedon item --- Draedon is, after all, Yharim's right hand man and chief scientist and general, surely whatever he drops can be utilized for something of this manner. Take this bit with a grain of salt, as I don't know about Draedon much and thereby the nature of his fight or drops yet, but it still could be considered.
New summoner elemental-tier accessory. Ideally, one tying in perhaps with Calamitas or with Yharon, as both can be attributed at least partially to the idea of resurrection (Calamitas is a necromancer, and Yharon is kind of a pheonix but kinda not it's really vague h).
pliant bone
Yeah but so far, almost all Calamitas based accessories are either a better all class emblem or Mage accessories
radiant meadow
I highly doubt nanotech is moving tiers
sand umbra
...why, if I may ask?
radiant meadow
I think its more likely for statis belt to become summoner oriented
sand umbra
radiant meadow
Nanotech is planned to be reworked.
radiant meadow
And a similar discussion in dev has occurred about making belt of curses pure summoner
Instead of hybrid
sand umbra
There is nothing within current official lore, to my knowledge, to indicate that Statis was skilled with or even necessarily taught in the way of summoning. Everything about him points towards him being a rogue --- would it not, thus, make sense for the accessories titled after him to also take on such a property?
radiant meadow
Ngl I barely remember the lore
sand umbra
Meanwhile, Calamitas is shown to be adept at not only casting and controlling her own magic to a great degree (mage), but being able to resurrect and reanimate the bodies of the dead to her will (summoner) --- thus, accessories oriented towards her for summoner would be much more thematically appropriate and introduce a higher brand of diversity, I feel.
Keep in mind that I remember much more about Calamity lore than is probably practical, so yeah.
I'm mainly trying to encourage pitting these ideas against the official lore of the mod from a consistency standpoint, because the lore's a large part of what makes Calamity unique in a sense, at least to me --- to directly contrast with it in ways like thsi may invoke the idea that the lore is outdated or simply inconsistent (which is already an issue with vanilla Terraria; see also, the War on Cthulhu or whatever the motherfuck it was) or that the lore's been forgotten in favor of just doing what looks coolest (again, vanilla Terraria mirror).
I am not saying this is what has happened, nor am I going to act like it is, but it is a very real possibility that should at least be considered, if only for a moment.
The ideas I had, I feel, would not only boost consistency with the official Calamity lore, but also increase variety as to what you can obtain in Calamity's currently admittedly barren late-game, if only ever so slightly.
hearty plaza
(vanilla) terraria lore is a joke and also shouldnt exist
proven tide
doesn't in calamity
sand umbra
In my mind, the most important thing of them all
is that a choice is a choice, no matter how small.
Consistency, too, should never be lacked,
for all that works in theory should take root in fact.
proven tide
I agree regarding that, though
lost agate
When tf did this turn into lore
proven tide
statis's belt has no real reason to be what it is
hearty plaza
wanting accessories to work in lore
proven tide
There's no connection between the lore and the gameplay
hearty plaza
so we're discussing how to fix that
proven tide
implementing lore items is not implementing lore, it's telling rather than showing
jovial spire
Honestly im with thomas
if one isnt gonna be changed its just gonna cause confusion
One of these would need to happen if confusion was to be prevented:
-Statis lore changes for him to be a summoner, along with Statis' Belt of Curses going pure Summoner
-Statis' Belt of Curses goes pure Rogue, Statis lore dosnt change and Summoner gets something new
-No changes are made
And yeah the lore is also one ofbthe things that stands out to me
If it didnt I wouldn't have made a 27 page doc about it
So, imo, ONE of these should happen and not just half of one
Plus, it would add in game inconsistancy as well. A rogue item's upgrade becoming a summoning item? That makes no sense at all.
So for in-game consistancy Statis' Ninja Belt would kinda need to be made summoner too. But why would a Ninja Belt benifit summoner?
lost agate
Youre overthinking it
jovial spire
Maybe. But it still stands that honestly it wouldn't make much sense lore and in-game wise.
proven tide
yeah nah that's not overthinking actually
that's trying to synchronise the canon that's reportedly so important with the actual gameplay
opal silo
Statis could have multiclassed
brazen bramble
@fierce hedge but he's an optional boss, why make it required?
hollow idol
King slime gives a decent amount of money when selling. I always go for saddle and hook because its the easiest one to get and its pretty viable
fierce hedge
Its just. So much work got into it but noone really looks at him @brazen bramble
It's a bit sad
He deserves more than you actually get
brazen bramble
he drops ninja gear, a hook, and a mount, even a crafting station, i think that's enough tbh
hollow idol
pff, if anything he has too much
placid moth
I wouldn't really make KS significant tbh.
placid moth
It's literally the first boss.
fierce hedge
:/
brazen bramble
royal gel is OP in hell too
fierce hedge
Which is why he needs more
placid moth
Not everything needs more.
fierce hedge
As a first boss he's looked down upon
brazen bramble
royal gel and mount is enough for the first boss
fierce hedge
Now look at DS or EoC
placid moth
Yes, we all dislike KS, it deserves to stay this way
fierce hedge
Tons of stuff
fierce hedge
Aureus is optional but actually worth it
King slime is like. You'll use it for 5 minutes
Exept Slimy Saddle but eh
Its Slimy Saddle
fierce hedge
The hook is argueable
hollow idol
I barely ever find gems
hollow idol
You are given slime crown on starting
fierce hedge
You get a gem hook pre-boss? Only things you get are Royal Gel and Slimy Saddle
And then King slime is over
brazen bramble
unless you grind for souls
fierce hedge
With DS, You can farm for weapons and Aero Stone
@brazen bramble Thats what i meant with Junk
In my suggestion
He doesnt become a boss but a grinding tool
brazen bramble
if you want heart of the elements a lot of bosses are grinding tools too
brazen bramble
who can use the slimy saddle? all classes, who can use the slime hook? all classes
that sounds pretty useful to me
royal gel? everyone
placid moth
I use it ONLY for hellvators tbh
zenith hazel
who can use the slime gun? no one
placid moth
I discard Royal Gel the moment I get it
fierce hedge
Exacly
brazen bramble
royal gel is neat in hell
fierce hedge
Thats all.
placid moth
My platforms are obsidian so
fierce hedge
Really worth an accessory slot?
brazen bramble
sometimes, yes
fierce hedge
Don't think so
placid moth
Super early game only.
fierce hedge
^
fierce hedge
And then theres only Slimy Saddle
brazen bramble
well, he's the first boss
brazen bramble
he doesn't have to carry you to hardmode
brazen bramble
and slimy saddle is very useful until you get a portal gun
placid moth
It's nerfed now so I think it has competition from Frog Leg
fierce hedge
Plus King slime isnt a joke anymore
Its a challenge now actually
And the loot you get from it is in my opinion no longer worth it
placid moth
I think the challenge comes from the fair teleports that KS does.
This is why I despise this boss.
fierce hedge
Exacly
placid moth
I do it just for the Boss Checklist tick.
fierce hedge
Now look at the work you put in it and look at the drops
Worth it?
Nah
Not at all
fierce hedge
Thats the only reason why KS really exists now
placid moth
I mean, sure, give people some incentive to beat KS for loot.
zenith hazel
also KS does drop the ninja set which helps rogue players
fierce hedge
Isnt it only throwing
placid moth
Ninja's rogue ?
zenith hazel
and before you say anything, throwing sets affect rogue
placid moth
I am confused but okay sure.
fierce hedge
Gladiator exists though
zenith hazel
still more tedious since you have to find a god damn marble biome and get somewhat lucky too
fierce hedge
It will help you through everything untill Hive Mind though
zenith hazel
a good set for early game players nonetheless
fierce hedge
KS, DS, EoC, Crabulon and Evil Boss
zenith hazel
also solidifier for the balloons
fierce hedge
How about this: Gladiator is a guaranteed drop after King Slime is defeated
brazen bramble
how are they related?
zenith hazel
that’s oddly weird design but ok
brazen bramble
also yeah king slime basically unlocks bundle of balloons for you
fierce hedge
Okay Bundle of balloons and Slimy Saddle
zenith hazel
you can still get bundle pre-boss, KS just alleviates the farming process yea
brazen bramble
i prefer to keep my character to one world
brazen bramble
king slime: solidifier for bundle, neat mount, throwing set (don't know if it's good or not tbh i never did throwing/rogue), neat hook, neat accessory, neat revengeance accessory
i feel like that's enough, bosses aren't supposed to puke loot on you
fierce hedge
DS, Crabulon, Hive Mind
brazen bramble
i mean 'not every boss'
brazen bramble
it's worth it
fierce hedge
Iguess. But theres only BoB
brazen bramble
also i like how his drop table doesn't contain any weapons
brazen bramble
well too bad?
fierce hedge
i suggested it
Like, Weapons that are a bit better than Platinum
Not too much
But something
fierce hedge
Iguess i'll have to see what others think.
ashen warren
the issue is the pretty global one of mod bloat
What would adding KS weps do really?
frail mantle
well
afaik KS is meant to be a challenge for newer players, kinda like a tutorial boss
worthy fiber
For a boss which should be able to be fought immediately, it does take a bit of preparation
minus rope cheese
lost agate
Uh
Ok but like lemme remind you what ks drops
1: a mount that its so useful people often use it all the way to post ML
2: a hook that you can use if you dont wanna farm one, has good stats
3: an entire rogue armor set
4: an accesory that will probably save your ass in the jungle (royal gel)
5: An accesory that will help you not get eaten by debuffs early on (crown jewel)
If you only think the mount is useful then yikes
Not all bosses need to drop weapons, this one in particular is more of an utility boss
Also like thats adding an entire drop table to a vanilla boss, which is eh
ALSO not to mention you can fight KS instantly, while DS requires you to stay in the desert to get the materials, and we all know how that goes very often
placid moth
I forgot about the Crown Jewel
lost agate
So yeah, thats my take on it
void kelp
crown jewel is like
relevant earlygame and then reappears in relevancy post-cultist bc of the whole astral bulwark thing
hollow saffron
friendly reminder that the slimy saddle is super useful
proven tide
it says something about calamity that the rev item is just thrown into the list without any if you're playing revengeance disclaimer
95% of this server mains rev+ 😔
carmine stream
hollow shell
I dislike the wording of the last sentence but overall a good suggestion
lost agate
Yeah the last sentence makes it feels like hes aiming toward linearity
ashen warren
eoc is replaced with supreme calamitas unless you beat ks first
rugged mist
tbh just make KS post-ml
lost agate
Astragel- gets shot
rugged mist
hoary hinge
Markie you get the Slime Hook from King Slime too - that's probably the easiest hook to get in Calamity since you get a Slime Crown and all and it's pretty damn good
lost agate
Thats because u dont need to get lucky with the slime hook
Some people are unkucky enough to not get 15 of any gem
So its definitely good
I dont think ks needs an entire weapon category imo
It would be just bloat for early pre hm
void kelp
we already have wulfrum
ashen warren
which is noice tbh
sand umbra
meanwhile no love for EoW/BoC, Skeletron, and generally pre-HM bosses that would actually make sense to have unique weapon drop sets
h
signal prairie
Well, instead of having weapons drop from KS. Why not have the Wulfrum weapons get upgrades using gel? However, lock the weapons behind the solidifier?
night cradle
eh, weapons related to KS would be too much imo
lost agate
Upgrades in basically the same tier are ech
night cradle
There are already weapons from DS, sunken sea which comes right after the boss and some pre-boss weapons which are good enough to stay up to some bosses
lost agate
Theres like 13 bows pre boss
hollow shell
(Make a new accessory locked behind KS that causes Wulfrum weapons to consume gel for extra damage/functionality)
distant gyro
ore items are just filler though
hollow shell
Thanks
lost agate
Idk if wulfrum is really all that related to gel
signal prairie
I legit might suggest that
hollow shell
Hey
Wulfrum Drones still make squishy sounds
signal prairie
Lol
sand umbra
also, if you wanna go that route, a flamethrower that shoots cat sounds and blue-pink flame is also not related to a giant hellish entity of flesh holding the souls of the damned
to be entirely frank, what does it matter
hollow shell
Maybe Wulfrum stuff is supposed to be like the robots in Sonic the Hedgehog, with innocent slime creatures turned into robots for slightly increased efficiency
lost agate
Then why not put a hell themed weapon as a drop from cryo 
sand umbra
why not put in a gun as a drop from a flower
signal prairie
So if I suggest rovers idea, is that considered chaining suggestions?
sand umbra
lost agate
Consistency and logic doesnt exist i know
But thats still no excuse to cause even more
sand umbra
obviously drops should still follow basic consistency rules, but
when you can have things like the Meowthrower and Breaker Blade from WoF and a freaking cyborg spawning after the death of a flower, I don't see any harm in giving both gel and Wulfrum shit a bit more of a purpose
especially given that the connection could easily be created between them, making for a bit more of a purpose for both
hollow shell
I would wait on it, Franswal
void kelp
honestly the main reason against really would just be saturation
signal prairie
Aight
sand umbra
I mean hey it still can't get any worse than early Hardmode--
And honestly, Wulfrum equipment doesn't serve all too much of a purpose as it is right now (you can obtain Victide gear and Stormlion Mandibles extremely early in a playthrough, and items such as grenades and Jester's Arrows make farming DS trivial).
I feel like it should at least have some practical advantage past just being obtainable earlier/easier than Victide gear.
sand umbra
...then again
Tomb Crawlers and the like exist
so--
lost agate
But that doesnt mean victide is comfortable or easy to get
Wulfrum is miles easier to get
So it has a porpuse
lost agate
If you say something doesnt have a porpuse because theres something better youre clearly forgetting the struggle of farming
Vale is better than gouger yes
But that doesnt make gouger useless, since one can be easier to get than the other
As an example
Thats like saying kelvin catalyst makes everything else useless
sand umbra
wasn't pre-nerf Kelv Cat viable up to like LC or some bullshit like that
or am I being dumb
lost agate
That doesnt deny what i said
distant gyro
pre-nerf cata is viable for anything with a large amount of enemies to shit shards on
sand umbra
I do see your point, though. Wulfrum is way easier to obtain than Victide (see also: fuck Tomb Crawlers), which makes it a decent early-game set to utilize, weak as it may be.
queen sail
The entire point of wulfrum was so that you don’t have to rely on ass wood armor
Iirc
distant gyro
yes
gusty geode
But what does that make the Miner set
hearty plaza
Miner is as good as silver for mining iirc
round falcon
Give Cryogen a longer teleport cooldown.
Cryogen teleports a lot for an early hardmode boss. Sure, while it may be cool at first (no pun intended) it can be annoying when farming it out for the Kelvin Catalyst or even just the Cryo Stone or Regenator.
any thoughts on my bad suggestion
tender obsidian
my thoughts are just post a suggestion in #suggestions-voting , no point in putting it in #suggestions-discussion
small talon
He puts it here to get feedback on it before posting it...
This is recommended to be done
terse sundial
^
small talon
I've never played on anything below revengeance so I wouldn't know how fast
But I will save rev and death are ok on my part for teleportation times
shell lynx
Would it be appropriate to suggest that the stardust guardian gets buffed?
I'm sure it has been before
warm tinsel
KS needs two more drops imo
fleet night
mabye make the KS required to make the SG summon
queen delta
sand umbra
KS isn't even necessarily the first boss
queen delta
It is the first boss
queen delta
No KS must have all 5 classes weapons
sand umbra
which drops Victide bullshit and its own weapon set
queen delta
And a RIV
sand umbra
along with unlocking the Sunken Sea and thereby Amidias
queen delta
And a legendary item
lost agate
2 actually
queen delta
And unlocks a new biome
sand umbra
KS memery
civic pond
sand umbra
just. why do people suddenly want KS to be this super important motherfucker
queen delta
Yes i was saying KS must have all 5 classes weapons, a RIV, legendary, and unlocks a new biome
lost agate
Ah
queen delta
Because yes
civic pond
and starts an event upon killing it
sand umbra
like I'm all for giving vanilla bosses additional drops that go to a consistent theme with what they are
e.g. WoF
civic pond
see consistency is important.
lost agate
I mean
civic pond
KS is not one of those cases
queen delta
And make KS have multiple phases and bullet hells in between
lost agate
Meowmere
sand umbra
but doing it for King fucking Slime is taking it a bit far imo
Meowmere
we do not talk about ML drops
lost agate
the issue starts from vanilla itself
sand umbra
or vanilla WoF drops for that matter
just like
if you wanna give any vanilla boss new drops
do it for a boss that deserves them and actually somewhat needs them
EoC, EoW/BoC, and Skeletron all drop a huge variety of almost nothing
smoky wagon
Calamity: The Video Game when
sand umbra
WoF drops a bunch of random shit
sand umbra
meanwhile KS gives you a mount, a crafting station, a hook, a fun gun...
smoky wagon
Skeletron includes the dungeon sorta
void kelp
primary world evil bosses def need more stuff
smoky wagon
World evil bosses unlock hellstone gear
so no
Not everything needs to be directly dropped
smoky wagon
Queen bee unlocks witch doctor and has its own weapons
though like many bosses it could use a rogue drop
alot of vanilla bosses give nothing for rogue
tired haven
Is there even one that directly does?
(KS ninja armor kinda counts ig, but wondering if there is more)
void kelp
nope
distant gyro
yeano
Not a lot of weapons added to vanilla boss drop pools other than rivs and legends
void kelp
even then iirc only skeletron drops a RIV
distant gyro
Also Cultist and ML
distant gyro
Thorn Blossom
tired haven
Well, also eidolon staff
void kelp
ohh that’s the arch amaryllis RIV, right?
distant gyro
anyways there's not a lot of vanilla boss pools in the first place
and yes
Eidolon Staff, Teardrop Cleaver, Meowthrower are neither rivs nor legends yea
People be suggesting rogue drops for fishron but they forget that there are lots of other vanilla bosses that doesn't contribute to rogue at all especially early game
void kelp
pretty good reasoning tbh
queen delta
polter clone bad
void kelp
polter clone should be at a fixed %
honest crane
@olive mist Combined with what?
civic pond
eachother
olive mist
Each other
cyan lagoon
multiclass
hollow shell
You should add a reason to that Level Meter one, and remove the "Also" so it can stand on its own
The Rox suggestion is fine tho
olive mist
Added a reason.
hollow shell
Thanks
bright mountain
terse sundial
?
smoky wagon
I feel like with provi and DoG getting reworks polter is next on the table
its one of the post-ML bosses that hasnt been touched in awhile
rugged mist
pretty sure that qualifies as a specific item
terse sundial
@pallid crag Specific item suggestions are off limits for the time being
pallid crag
Oof, I apologize
terse sundial
If you make the suggestion more broad it can stay. although adding more summon weapons is an automatic ☑ iirc
pallid crag
More broad?
granite owl
cryo is easy, why you want to make it easier?
hollow shell
(Cryo's getting buffed a bit. Spoilers.)
Also yeah "more broad" as in, don't specify a name or any exact numbers
pretty much just leave the reason you want it in the game and have only a summary of the important things about the item, as in the things that directly pertain to the reason
Like instead of suggesting "Shockstorm Laser Cannon - Mid-Hardmode gun that doesn't consume ammo that deals 50 damage and fires 3 projectiles etc etc etc... because there needs to be more non-ammo-consuming guns especially in mid-Hardmode"
You'd just say
"Add a gun in mid-Hardmode that doesn't consume ammo, because there needs to be more non-ammo-consuming guns especially at that point"
granite owl
cryo buff :pog:
hollow shell
Hope that's clear @pallid crag
pallid crag
Oh, gotcha
hollow shell
Looks good 👍
pallid crag
Alright
signal prairie
Rover, merry christmas
hollow shell
In hindsight this does sound relatively specific
Pondering if it's fine or needs some kind of rewording...
signal prairie
I was just throwing out some potential ideas
hollow shell
You could phrase it like "Add an equippable locked behind King Slime" or "obtainable after defeating King Slime"
so it's not specifically an accessory (could be a helmet) and so that it's not specifically a drop, it could be crafted at a Solidifier, for example.
Maybe not even 'an equippable'
maybe just "an item"
so that it could be a potion or an inventory thing or a fuckin light pet
sand umbra
hey so quick question
what's that formatting thing that lets you hide the embed of a link by default
this is suggestion-related, I assure you, and you'll see why in a couple minutes
...eh, might not be important
we'll see
round falcon
to answer @granite owl cryogen is an average fight but the telespam makes it tedious
fluid stone
the point of wulfrum is to be a quick starting armor
not to be good
it would basically replace victide then
no point
proven tide
@sand umbra <>
sand umbra
danke
terse sundial
hmm
proven tide
you fucking mad lad you did it
proven tide
hnng formatting nightmare 
queen delta
formatting looks fine to me personally
queen delta
Oh wait were you referring to the doc?
proven tide
yos
queen delta
Ah
proven tide
yay lightened text
queen delta
I like the dark theme tho
proven tide
ty
queen delta
Keep it up
sand umbra
👍
sand umbra
fixed it
but yeah
this is one I've been wanting to slap in here for nearly a week, but I wanted to make triple-sure that I was actually suggesting a necessary buff
sand umbra
and that it wasn't just me being a complete dumbass with using the weapon
Thomas for tester...sometime in the future, potentially
assuming I'm ever trusted enough to be one
Now, inevitably, there are going to be inaccuracies with this test. The way I did it gave me a lot of luxuries a normal player going through DoG for the first time sure as hell wouldn't get, and these also aren't factoring in rippers (which would've thrown off my baseline IMMENSELY if I did utilize them, hence why I didn't). There are also factors out of my control, such as spawn locations and, to a point, Signus' teleport locations.
But I tried my damnedest to make sure it was at least mostly accurate to what the average ranger going into the Devourer's fight most likely has.
lost agate
SAC just got a buff
and it got some pretty scary dps spikes sometimes
So im still skeptical here
terse sundial
those spikes are inconsistent iirc
you have to be positioned right to get good damage, making the wep pretty high iq
lost agate
theyre consistent if you hit the head or tail often enough
proven tide
(+) Sulphuric Acid Cannon bubbles now emit fewer mists to prevent lag, but the mists have a larger damage radius and can hit infinitely. Greatly increased projectile speed.
(-) Devourer of Gods no longer resists Sulphuric Acid Cannon or Eidolic Wail.
terse sundial
I wouldn't mind a minor projectile speed boost though
lost agate
it just got that
lost agate
yeah, read what sequence posted
lost agate
btw thomas are you still trying to hit with sac from far away?
sand umbra
all of these tests were performed on the latest update
and all 9 tests are linked within the thesis proper
proven tide
technically a thesis is a thing you write in application for something so this can be your tester thesis
sand umbra
I mainly call it a thesis because that's what that long paper you write for senior year of college or some shit is
that and I have no idea what else to call it
queen delta
Beta tester isnt something you apply for here iirc
proven tide
you write it in college because you're writing it to get your degree 
a treatise, perhaps
sand umbra
the point is
I went out of my way to extensively test both this weapon and two others and compare my results to see if my findings were actually true or just me being a dumbass
the statistics that I gathered as a result seem to lean towards the former
terse sundial
sand umbra
so either I am somehow still an idiot with SAC or it is actually underpowered for its tier and skill bar
proven tide
without*
sand umbra
Correct.
lost agate
second, you almost always hit the body
sand umbra
I tested with Sentinels, yes.
proven tide
hang on bruh didn't you specify tha—
sand umbra
Only the initial recorded test, which wasn't done under anything near the same conditions, only assessed the Devourer specific.
proven tide
i have small brain 
sand umbra
All 9 of the tests linked in my paper otherwise went through the fight as a player going through the DoG fight normally with SAC would go through it.
lost agate
not to mention you were always had doggo offscreen
queen delta
The real problem here is that seadragon is much easier to use, is generally better, and obtainable earlier than, the SAC
lost agate
go follow the tail for a bit, stick a lot of bubbles
youre getting no potential out of it
queen delta
Yes but no one ever uses SAC because of the deep learning curve
lost agate
and if you hit all the bubbles on one single segment youre screwing your own dmg
well if it gets buffed how long will it take for someone to meme on doggo killing it in no time
proven tide
imagine a learning curve on modern dog
lost agate
becuase they learned how to use it well
queen delta
If someone has high enough IQ to be able to meme doggo with SAC, they deserve it
proven tide
this post was made by easiest major p-ml boss
sand umbra
That is called high skill, high reward.
queen delta
See eidolic wail
sand umbra
A concept that is, yes, already established by the Eidolic Wail.
lost agate
well you didnt show me that much skill there
you used sac like you would use any other weapon
its not a weapon you just aim at dog when keeping him offscreen on pasive phase
sand umbra
So what you're telling me is that the research I conducted on and off over the course of a week is at least partially invalid because there was a lack of information that not even I, let alone someone going into the Devourer of Gods' fight for the first time with the weapon, would know of off the top of my head.
Or at least, that's the vibe I'm getting from this.
lost agate
i mean
would you expect a weapon with that slow of a projectile to be reliable aimable to hit from far away compared to holy fire bullets
the tooltip aint gonna tell you "hey this is how you use the weapon"
proven tide
what you would expect is that a slow projectile weapon is generally trash for a superspeed boss
the other two have obvious function
who the fuck would commit to a learning curve that heavy for a slower kill time when the seadragon exists
lost agate
yet it gets the highest dps when missing your shots in comparison to everything
proven tide
if anything you're reinforcing his points
lost agate
how are you sure its a slower kill time
proven tide
because this is, again, not someone with several tries and training-based technique perfection
this is someone going into the fight at that base level
lost agate
well for those kind of people eidolic wail is also trash
proven tide
the point is that the seadragon and daemon's flame are inherently easier kills whether it be due to a bad weapon or higher skill floor
¯_(ツ)_/¯
also it's not my research phellas
lost agate
christ, so its has to be as easy to use to get even faster kill times, with yet even faster kill times when you use it well
well then
ashen warren
Technically, with the way calamity scales stuff, yes.
Things need to be good and then have the option to be really strong.
lost agate
well lets just buff it so it kills dog in 2 minutes if used well why dont we
hollow shell
I'd say that you should show them how it's done by getting a faster time using the same build
but you're busy with other Calamity stuff, right?
hollow shell
Well it'd prove that high skill does warrant faster times
lost agate
maybe tomorrow, idfk
hollow shell
Alright
lost agate
you cant have one hard to use weapon as ranged i suppose
proven tide
@sand umbra this is your point to make not mine
ashen warren
It's not that it's ranged, it's that it's post-ml.
The scaling for complexity and skill ceilings is lowered as you progress.
triple threat
proven tide
because calamity power curves
lost agate
eidolic wail
proven tide
... and?
queen delta
I havent seen any nohitters actually use it
proven tide
because why commit effort and skill curves when you have the option to commit slapp
ashen warren
using it blows, in normal pts you use something else
proven tide
levi counts as a nohitter 
queen delta
I think you overestimate the skill of nohitters
Yes, they’re still good, but they generally look for the easiest way out
hollow shell
(not seeing any non-nohitters use this weapon isn't much of an argument
if it's supposed to be a high skill weapon and nohitters are inherently skilled at the game)
lost agate
whatever, im not gonna bother balancing high iq weapons cuz its literally not worth it
now i can see that
sand umbra
nohitters are inherently skilled at the game
lost agate
its a headache, and you win nothing out of it
sand umbra
/innocent whistling
hollow shell
Okay they're more skilled than somebody who is, say, fighting DoG for the first time
proven tide
(kinda the point considering the average joe isn't going to opt towards the high-skill gimmick weapons when other options exist)
queen delta
Yeah, obviously, but I see most nohitters hailed as gods
lost agate
Yes you have told me that 5 times by now
proven tide
guess who was talking to rover, shucks
lost agate
ik normal players wont use it
ashen warren
it's simple
just increase the iq of every other weapon as you progress
People do learn as they play.
hollow shell
Hm
lost agate
then people say weapons are too hard to use
hollow shell
or that the weapons are just bad
lost agate
and ask for a buff
proven tide
here's a fix: everyone go away and follow shucks's big brain strat and if we get our asses kicked or dog takes ten years to die evidently it's inherently the fault of the player not the gimmick so we can actually assess its reputed biggest-brain use 👀
that way it actually settles the debate with case studies rather than claims
ashen warren
yeah but giving in to that is what has this meta of really easy to use and high dps items
proven tide
i think you're missing a word in there 
lost agate
the meta is giving me headaches thats what
hollow shell
Is the conclusion here to nerf Seadragon and Daemon's Flame?
proven tide
the conclusion is to balance options, i think
ashen warren
In contrast to sulph?
Maybe yeah.
proven tide
have them all on relatively comparable levels
hollow shell
And keep SAC the way it is so that it gets fast kills if you know how to use it, but not buff it so that it is so fast that DoG melts
lost agate
well then there comes the issue
ashen warren
thomas what you think
lost agate
how are they gonna have comparable dps if they are from different tiers
ashen warren
lost agate
one is post sentinels, one is a polter drop and the other is an abyss drop
proven tide
the idea is to round out the ranged dog options
lost agate
they cant have comparable dps
hollow shell
Somebody's gotta use SAC in the optimal way using Thomas's build,
maybe Thomas himself if he learns how to do it,
and add that to the table in the doc
proven tide
oh come on, they're all designed around dog
the sentinels and polter are both available immediately post-moon lord, by the way.
radiant meadow
seadragon should be tested on polterghast
proven tide
the idea is for them to all be roughly rounded due to availability and doggo iirc
iirc polter bad boss
lost agate
.-.
queen delta
I disagreed with seadragon buff as well but oh well
sand umbra
...tell me again why I oriented this test around the average player's skill level.
queen delta
Focus on daemon’s flame being viable for DoG, not seadragon
queen delta
🔥
proven tide
ashen warren
sand umbra
I am almost certain there is still plenty to the SAC that I do not understand and thus cannot properly utilize, and thus I'm not going to claim that the tests here are its maximum capability.
What I instead aimed to replicate, which was relatively easy as I don't understand the weapon much myself, was instead the skill bar of the average player, be it going into the Devourer's fight for the first time or going through a second playthrough, perhaps on a higher difficulty.
I don't doubt for a moment that the SAC has the capability of being faster than both of the weapons I compared it to for viability purposes, and I will not dismiss any claims to such as unfounded or absurd (although I would highly appreciate demonstrations and statistics that prove these claims are true). But given how deep the SAC's learning curve goes, how low damage output is without the skill required to utilize it, and the viability and lesser complexity of both other well-known, tried and true options of the same tier, the Sulfuric Acid Cannon simply cannot stand against its competitors.
I am well-aware that the Eidolic Wail falls under a similar case --- however, the Eidolic Wail not only utilizes a different mechanic that is rather plainly explained in the tooltip, it is also of a completely different class AND is not covered under the experiment's focus because the focus originally was and still is the Sulfuric Acid Cannon and what it has to compete with.
But, nonetheless, if it will convince people to not dismiss my work as inaccurate, then I suppose I can run a second trio of tests for DoG after spending an indeterminate amount of time understanding exactly how to use the weapon simply to give it a DPS comparison that in the end does not affect the results of the experiment aside from giving a further basis as to why it is virtually never used.
I did not conduct this test to cater to the skilled. I did not conduct this test to cater to first-timers.
I did this test with the knowledge that any buff would only be small, lest it be detested for pushing the skill-oriented damage rates too high. It still needs something to at least make it a more preferable option for those that don't wish to spend 5 hours learning how to utilize a singular weapon of a singular class that is worthwhile as an investment for exactly one opponent.
lost agate
I mean, i never used sac before
Before i started testing it that is
I just knew, "dis shit dun work on long range" once i saw the projectile speed"
Also i dont think you need 5 hours
I didnt nearly use the weapon for over an hour
It was like 5 test of around 7 minutes in averages
(some were rather long because of some nerfs in the way that were reverted or rebalanced in another way)
So no, dont force yourself to use a weapon you dont understand
Thats gonna get you nowhere
Nobody is forcing you to use SAC on your run, you can use easier to use options if you want
The hard ones are just there if you want to take some risks
ashen warren
lost agate
My point is, dont stress yourself over something you may not understand how to use, im just saying, its hard to properly test smth when you dont fully understand how it works
And you dont have to force yourself to know
Some weapons are like the bosses, some find a boss easy while other find it impossible
Its all up to play styles
Thats why theres other options, so you can use any other if one weapon doesnt fit your play style
sand umbra
At this point I'm just trying to determine what the hell my goal with this test even was.
proven tide
buff sac
sand umbra
Because I'm not sure if I even entirely know why I did this experiment by now.
proven tide
that's what it was
sand umbra
The single largest inaccuracy with the test, and the reason I second-guess myself, is that it apparently can reach much higher DPS spikes than any of my experiences or experiments with the weapon would imply.
Yet because of my own misunderstandings of the weapon, I cannot replicate these values and thus cannot give an accurate comparison.
Which makes the entire test inherently flawed.
sand umbra
And the last thing I wanted to do was to give out an inherently flawed test when I was trying to understand how SAC compares to the other two options commonly used at the same tier. Yet from what i gather, I ended up doing exactly that.
Hence why my options, from what I can see, are to either scrap the experiment and thus the suggestion entirely or to spend much further time understanding and learning the weapon so that I may give a set of more accurate DPS values catered towards those with greater skill.
Because as it is, it seems as if the test was utterly and entirely pointless; a waste of time that I could've easily spent doing other more productive things.
hollow shell
(At least you got one step closer to being a tester)
(You got the concept and the determination, you just need the combat sense)
sand umbra
There is no point to going through with a test if the test on a fundamental level is inherently flawed.
And as far as I can tell, that is the only practical thing I've learned from this.
hollow shell
Question
What came first
"buff SAC", or the tests
Did you do the tests to prove SAC needed a buff,
or did you do tests and determine from them that SAC needed a buff
sand umbra
Both.
My initial test with SAC was done for the purposes of my journey, and its lackluster performance at first led me to believe it needed a buff.
I was then told I was using it wrong (which didn't surprise me, as I had no prior experience with the weapon), and so I set out to do something.
hollow shell
your journey as in
your playthrough?
sand umbra
nohit journey
hollow shell
ah
sand umbra
I set out both to understand the weapon better, and to more accurately test its performance both against the Devourer's fight on its own merit and when compared to the other two viable options of the tier that are extremely likely to be picked over the SAC simply for being more practical to use and more capable of more consistently high DPS rates.
The tests I did, which resulted in the thesis I wrote, caused me to consequently come to the conclusion once again that SAC needed a buff.
The thesis contains a summary of my tests, the reasons I could figure out for its performance being lackluster (in my hands, anyway), and potential ways to make its learning curve a bit less sharp.
And that leads us to here, where the thesis is my backing for a suggestion to potentially buff the Sulfuric Acid Cannon to perhaps make it more practical for those that may not fully understand it.
lost agate
Thomas
Dont stress yourself trying to test sac more, let me at least try myself first
lost agate
Its just that i had to test sac like 6 or so times so the kill time was appropiate and seeing someone taking twice as long brings me suspicion
Least i can do retry and see whats really happening
I dont wanna touch the dmg cuz before the kill times would vary like crazy
First it was 5 minutes but i was lagging like fuck so basically it was half of that, then it was 6 but with the same lag, then it turned into 8 without lag, then 3, then like 7 then around 5-6 minutes
sand umbra
lost agate
So touching the dmg on this kind od weapon is delicate
Maybe the bubble could get another speed boost but beyond that idk if its worth
sand umbra
Mm.
lost agate
Oh yeah my accesories were unreforged so im not sure how much the dmg boosts affect it
It hits very quickly so maybe it helps it a lot
Anywho, dont delete the suggestion
Not until we figure out who is in the wrong here
proven tide
being wrong does not equal being in the wrong
but yeah, i agree that the situation necessitates further testing to be able to make any hard calls
proven tide
yes