yeah i remember that too
#suggestions-discussion
zealous ridge
queen sail
Since perennial bars used to be draedon bars
zealous ridge
another hot take...
actually add more materials to play around with post-ml 
although thats probably low priority
it would be nice regardless
quick ice
nah, Post-ML needs content that isn't just gear with huge-crafting trees and bosses
currently the only unique break in Post-ML is the Abyss raid after Polterghast, everything is you grinding gear or killing bosses
hollow shell
stuff along those lines are planned but not for a long time and little is confirmed
zealous ridge
understandable
quick ice
wait Stardust, can you tell us if Calamity will ever do anything to balance enemies based on the difficulty mode?
hollow shell
Elaborate
quick ice
for instance, on Revengeance some enemies get enhancements to their AIs and stat buffs
same for Death
quick ice
all I know of are increased spawn rates
hollow shell
maybe life
quick ice
nah I never see any health buffs in death mode
hollow shell
AI and function changes are minimal, however
quick ice
Health/Defense buffs are the main things enemies need for the difficulty modes so that they last longer than a second
hollow shell
Ah right, DR
quick ice
with the balance that calamity has, I can use some pre-hardmode weapons and take out all Hardmode enemies while on Revengeance mode due to Calamity having weapons more powerful than vanilla, which enemies are based around
hollow shell
DR happens.
quick ice
oh yeah, I forgot about that
still though, Damage reduction is only for some enemies, where the only ones with significant DR are Hardmode Dungeon enemies, Possessed Armor, Tortoises and bosses
welp I'ma draft up a suggestion for buffing enemies HP in revengeance/death mode
hollow shell
ok
zealous ridge
i dont have to list potential examples of more interesting crafting recipes for post-dog weps, right?
hollow shell
You can list a few
zealous ridge
alright
hollow shell
doesn't need to be more than 2 or 3
hollow shell
Such a shame
zealous ridge
oh well, off to work on that crafting change suggestion
half basalt
@hollow shell what is?
hollow shell
Literally the previous message
half basalt
jeez, my bad
quick ice
Calamity/Vanilla Miniboss Stat buffs: For Revengeance and Death Mode, Buff these guys HP. This would help make them more threatening like the real bosses in Revengeance/Death mode and make all the minibosses more difficult similarly to the Great Sand Shark, which already has Stat buffs in these modes.
^
Suggestion to buff Minibosses, any thoughts?
zealous ridge
may have to define miniboss, like vanilla minibosses, calamity minibosses, or both?
quick ice
I'll do both
but if people disagree with buffing Ice Golem/Sand Elemental, Paladin and whatever other Vanilla Minibosses there are I can cut the vanilla stuff
zealous ridge
alright, heres my suggestion, any feedback?
more interesting crafting recipes for Post-Dog items
Post-dog crafting recipes, currently, are kind of boring. Most upgrades only go as far as including cosmilite and phantoplasm, with nothing else. Furthermore, its technically unnecessary and forces many players to fight DoG multiple times, adding annoying padding to the playthrough. Although more recent items added via donations have been alleviating this problem slightly, the issue still stands that there are incredibly bland crafting recipes for weapons and accessories like the T-1000, Asgardian aegis and Elysian tracers, Minigun, Phangasm, and Mourningstar, to name only a few.
Adding a few more materials to these items and their crafting trees would make crafting them more interesting, give more use to underrepresented materials, and make the post-dog phase less repetitive.
A few examples:
Mourningstar could have nightmare fuel added to its recipe, seeing as it's a fiery material that would fit thematically for the weapon.
T-1000 could include rainbow brick or rainbow-themed materials in it's recipe.
Core of the Blood God could require bloodstone cores to craft.
quick ice
I support that
however I don't know if the devs will like it, since it adds some more complexity that a lot of people won't like
zealous ridge
thats true in some aspects
but in others...
as sors said, they dont have to have cosmilite in their recipes as long as they're crafted at the draedons forge
so... potentially less time spent refighting DoG?
hollow shell
Thatd be nice
quick ice
make sure to mention that in the suggestion if you didn't
also do some bolding for Key Words, like the title and "A few examples"
just to give it a bit of organization
quick ice
more of just a pet-peeve thing
zealous ridge
quick ice
just do ** around the words you wanna do
zealous ridge
i did that for the title, no idea why it didnt carry over
quick ice
pretend + is a *
++This is how you bold stuff++
quick ice
no you have to do *
quick ice
I used the + as an example since if I did the *s, it wouldn't show you
hearty plaza
**just use backslashes before the *s**
quick ice
but yeah Chozo, I think the suggestions good as long as you mention how they could reduce the amount of Cosmolite needed for stuff, reducing the grinding on Doggo
and making seemingly less useful materials useful again
zealous ridge
i added some to the suggestion
quick ice
cool, now just post it in #suggestions-voting and see what other people think
toxic pagoda
My suggestion hasn’t been accepted or rejected and it was before the drataliornus one
half basalt
starts hyperventilating
civic pond
yeah that goes for a lot of suggs.
half basalt
God, fuck, i hit enter TWICE accidentally
quick ice
That’s what I was talking about earlier, but I guess they’re just reading the suggestions and not providing a comment
lunar reef
For Rev+ there are few to no changes for Old One's Army. Anyone have suggestions for buffing it?
queen delta
I did offer some ideas
All enemies have 2x speed, 2x health, and eternia crystal has 1 hp
lunar reef
1 hp
hollow shell
one snotty boi
lunar reef
Well i think it would make some sense to have Betsy inflict "Betsy's Curse" in deathmode
For buffing health, maybe 1.5X would be better. I know wheni fight OOA i almost never use the turret defenses
radiant meadow
Betsy's Curse has no effect on the player
lunar reef
Then change it to effect players or give him additional debuffs to deal players besides burning
zealous ridge
besides, withered armor is essentially the same effect
that being less defense
and its from the OOA event as well
radiant meadow
Betsy's Curse also internally counts as a buff so the player can right click it away.
hollow shell
We can probably change that
lunar reef
^
lunar reef
i'm just throwing out possible changes that can be done to improve rev+ OOA
radiant meadow
betsy's curse has an ugly placeholder buff icon anyways
lunar reef
then we could change it
use Betsy icon as a placeholder maybe
what do you think needs to be done to improve OOA?
sand umbra
it would require making a whole new buff
like what happened w/ Shadowflame
isn't it possible to change whether or not a buff is internally counted as a debuff?
like, just with mod methods without making a new buff?
i could've sworn that's a thing you can pull off
nocturne crow
It needs to be redefined as a debuff instead of a buff.
sand umbra
...df
GlobalBuff doesn't have like anything you can override that even remotely helps
alright then, I've learned something today 
reef plover
this update yes
timber thicket
send pic in diff chat pls
queen delta
quick ice
is that his 3rd or 4th resprite now?
swift bison
5th actually
queen delta
8-9th i think
quick ice
oh wait actually yeah, I remember at first he was a reskinned destroyer
zenith hazel
anyway this topic fits more in #calamity-mod-talk
quick ice
sorry, back to suggestion talk
about Old Ones army, buffing the bosses in it would be awesome
tired haven
Wondering how much t3 ooa would have to be buffed to actually be threatening 
quick ice
that and some other small changes in Rev such as making the Kobold move faster, new attacks/ai for Ogre, Betsy and Dark Mage and spawning swarms of certain units
queen delta
1 hp eternia crystal should make t3 more threatening
nocturne crow
I'd halve the initial health of the crystal itself, or by a certain %.
Or remove it's health regen completely.
quick ice
Ogre AI change in Rev Mode: HP buffs for T2 and T3, 3 changes to its attacks
1: Can fire multiple snot balls at once
2: Shockwaves have extended range and causing dirt-balls to be thrown upward
3: Getting hit by the Ogres club gives you confused
Why?: Ogre is pretty boring in vanilla and even moreso in Calamity. Giving it an HP buff would allow it to be a threat for longer and the changes to its attacks would make it less cheeseable and more threatening to the player when they're flying.
thoughts on this?
hollow shell
I think it'd be better if the shockwaves still acted like shockwaves
and like
sent out damaging woosh projectiles along the ground for a significant distance
Summoning skeletons is Dark Mage's job
nocturne crow
Maybe the shockwaves also flings out debris as additional small projectiles?
hollow shell
Or that
quick ice
I changed that
hollow shell
Sendin em upward to act as a bit of a threat in the air, considering the only thing you need to do to avoid the attack is go up
press space bar
quick ice
yeah Ogre is lame since it's got 2 melee attacks and an easily dodgeable snot-attack
would adding a laser-beam to its eye be too much?
hollow shell
... yeah probably
quick ice
alright, so what I've got in the suggestions good in your opinion?
hollow shell
Yeah sure seems fine
Just be sure to provide reasoning to substantiate the changes
worthy fiber
Not worth the effort, it's easier to just cheat the items in
hollow shell
I'm going to assume what you were saying in #suggestions-voting before it got deleted didn't have anything to do with suggesting something for Calamity?
hollow shell
You should say it in the bugs channel then
assuming it's not already documented in the bug doc
sullen jacinth
yea, that document is a lot of TL;DR tbh
hollow shell
Ah
I mean he it is fair that he suggested it
All the previously existing lore items pretty much just got deleted
nocturne crow
Having to re-kill every new boss in a fresh world does take a bit to do should your gear not cut it. Especially when you're hoarding onto so much when the update hits.
It's a fair suggestion. Fabsol did write up an apology ahead of the update when they mentioned that players had to make a new world to re-acquire the lore.
Has there been a suggestion regarding any new NPC's to sell lore to the player?
void kelp
you can just spawn it in
nocturne crow
Without any other mods outside of Calamity?
proven tide
nop
nocturne crow
Exactly.
lost agate
Theres no way to replace an unloaded item with a functioning item
Simply put because the unloaded item just doesnt exist in code anymore
Cant check what item to replace what item with when one of the items just flat out doesnt exist
Also its likely the lore deal never happens again or in a long time so it wouldnt have much use
hollow shell
Theoretically we could have made the existing lore item IDs just be an item which instantly turns into a new lore item
or, if that's difficult/impossible, make it a grab-bag type item which only has a new lore item in it
and keep them in for just this update and maybe the one after
lost agate
Pretty sure terraria doesnt work with ids
lost agate
Yeah
hollow shell
I just meant like
the things that have the "Knowledge13" and such namespaces
lost agate
Its all dependant on the file name
hollow shell
yeah that
Could have made the item with that filename be something that turns into a new lore item.
lost agate
Making it based on id is basically rewritting how tmod handles things
hollow shell
I get it
hollow shell
I know
that's why I just said that we could have theoretically, instead of deleting those files, made those files be items that give you
new lore items
We could still do it and release a patch with them in it
and help the people who didn't trash the unloaded items already
but it probably won't be worth it
gusty geode
Think small Birbs eventually growing into more big Birbs would be a good Rev+ (or just Death) change?
Would definitely help with grinding
foggy kindle
I mean people don't really care about Birbs till post-P1 Yharon where they need to craft Silva armor anyway
sand umbra
nohitting exists
following the intended progression exists
your statement is a hell of a blanketed one tbf and it's not an excuse
foggy kindle
Yeah I guess that's fair...
zenith hazel
birb can provide useful drops for melee, ranger, and mage players, respectively
not to mention the rage boost for all 5 classes
so there's not a major reason so as to skip birb
sand umbra
^
hearty yew
i actually wanted to do what rover said to alleviate pain on this update
but we ran out of time
hollow shell
Damn.
proven tide
void kelp
eeyup
teal ibex
that is quite the power play
civic pond
:bruh:
radiant meadow
@bright mountain it already got sent the first time, you don't need to resuggest it
terse sundial
Since it already was sent and there is no point having it around I'll delete it
half basalt
Jeez, my old suggestion got up to 99 stars 0_0
also, suggestions now require 90 stars instead of 80?
radiant meadow
They never required 80
Used to be 35 a year ago.
Bumped up to 50 at one point and bumped up again to 90 later
hollow shell
You forgot 65
radiant meadow
65 is clearly irrelevant then
ashen warren
having them spawn in waves is great @ashen warren take note of this
imo waves of worms would be better than straight up removing some
@ashen warren edited my suggestion
civic pond
having them spawn all at once is just begging for my laptop to die
hollow idol
new update made them 10x less lag for me tho 🤔
civic pond
facetanking intensifies
hollow idol
also imo its the lingering projectiles that cause the lag
civic pond
fucking mines..
sand umbra
lingering projectiles
worms everywhere
dust
it's all coming together for one heaping helping of lag.
hollow saffron
civic pond
no they dont
ashen warren
@hollow saffron they don’t
karmic stone
@empty geyser Pretty sure this is any modded item clashing with Redcode
empty geyser
Mhm
karmic stone
And since the big mods (or any mod at all) hasn't done anything about it, i doubt this is possible
If you have Tmod enabled, the frames and racks even have a warning not to use them with any modded item
empty geyser
It's possible if they just add a custom item frame
That specifically displays calamity items
karmic stone
They would have to use the same code to make a custom afaik
empty geyser
¯_(ツ)_/¯
karmic stone
Ask Rover when he's around, he normally lurks this chat
empty geyser
Well, I did suggest, so whether it's possible or not, it's up to the devs
We just suggest
Am I right
karmic stone
Ye you right bud
sand umbra
I mean, in this scenario it's physically impossible to pull off
it's not a Calamity issue
civic pond
you know what item frames remind me of
sand umbra
it's an issue with how item frames as a whole are handled
nocturne crow
Yep. To be fair, I didn't expect my last suggestion to hit 75 in less than a single day.
sand umbra
there...may be something with Journey's End to fix up how those things work? but for now they flat-out cannot function with modded items properly
karmic stone
The sugg looks really clean and organized, that instantly gives you 30 stars for some reason, Chag
sand umbra
that's just how it is
it instantly gives you stars because it shows you really put thought into the suggestion and would like people to understand it
karmic stone
The monkeys at Relogic did mention they're going to try and make modded compatibility with vanilla actually exist
radiant meadow
this is a tmodloader bug
and for them to fix it, they would have to like rewrite all of tmodloader or something iirc
nocturne crow
Whichever poison makes the most sense.
sand umbra
Item frames and the like function off of Item IDs.
karmic stone
Rewrite all of tmodloader
sand umbra
Static item IDs, at that.
Because modded item IDs do not exist within the vanilla game, the game attempts to compensate by replacing the offending item(s) with vanilla ones.
Trust me, I'd like to put the Rock in an item frame to flex on people as much as the next guy, but it's just. Not doable currently.
swift bison
@empty geyser this isn't a calamity issue
it's and issue with tmodloader and janky terraria code
empty geyser
I dunno
karmic stone
We were waiting for a dev to tell us if it was possible to get around this somehow
Wait, Ben never said anything about your custom frames idea right?
If it was possible i think a mod about it would already be out but
hollow shell
I am more than sure this is a tModLoader issue and is therefore not Calamity's thing to fix
placid girder
is it possible to make terminus right click show like best time to fully clear it
hollow shell
You mean like personal bests or a pre-set time goal to beat?
karmic stone
That idea could actually do better as an option for the Drunk Princess
Fits lore-wise If DP has any lore haha
Because she's the only being that understands what the boss rush is besides Xeroc
Probably
bright mountain
@radiant meadow alright, sorry
hearty yew
@empty geyser I'm sorry, but we can't do that. That's a TML problem. Calamity cannot solve that issue, it's not a valid suggestion.
empty geyser
Cool
It was a suggestion, so I wasn't expecting it to be implemented anyway
¯_(ツ)_/¯
karmic stone
/shruh
void kelp
instant star
lost agate
issue is
void kelp
changing vanilla recipe not exactly plausible?
lost agate
as how night/bloody edge is, would you use it over say gelitic blade?
half basalt
actually... I think that's a good idea.
civic pond
🤔
void kelp
maybe buff them in exchange for later in profession?
half basalt
As long as you give Muramasa a slight buff
sand umbra
i mean if you wanna go that route
would you use either over the Ball O' Fugu, the go-to melee option for WoF and also SG
half basalt
Because it's basically a filler weapon, the weapon itself is pretty underwhelming for post skelly
lost agate
pretty sure people use ball of fugu on SG
hollow shell
Muramasa is the last NE sword you get?
zealous ridge
yes
hollow shell
For me it's the hellstone sword
lost agate
because hell sucks
sand umbra
fair point
lost agate
mainly its worldgen
hollow shell
It's a lot harder to get to hell than it is to get into the Dungeon
half basalt
every other one can be obtained pre boss, technically
hollow shell
Or at least it's more time consuming and requires less of digging your own path
half basalt
bombs
hollow shell
nnnot without doing unintended shit, Survivor
for Muramasa
Good luck getting that without killing Skele
sand umbra
my thing is just
the Lunarian Bow and Night's/Carnage Ray are post-SG and are in a similar vein to Night's/Bloody Edge
half basalt
but getting bombs costs mone a sh shshshsh shhh, King Slime
grizzled matrix
If that suggestion were to happen then they would need a big buff
half basalt
mmmm
doesnt meteor pick allow you to mine hellstone?
(if there is one, i may be forgetting)
sand umbra
meteor pick doesn't exist
hollow shell
There is no meteor pick
civic pond
solemn flame
sand umbra
but like
despite getting a damage buff there is no practical reason to use Muramasa
half basalt
or not meteor pick dammit
grizzled matrix
NEdge/BEdge are pretty terrible tbh
zealous ridge
hellstone is technically obtainable eariler than muramasa, and in either case you will have the same problem:
firey greatsword/muramasa is basically obsolete because its instantly upgraded to NE/BE
half basalt
Demonite Pickaxe
sand umbra
for the simple reason that you can instead immediately craft it into Night's or Bloody Edge
hollow shell
You need Shadow Scales or Tissue Samples to make the evil pickaxes
half basalt
fucc
lost agate
the whole BE and NE line is weird
half basalt
mmmmuhhhhhhh
lost agate
i literally only use butcher blade or the demonite one
the rest is just materials for me basically
by the time you get good stuff to not be assblasted by jungle youre likely 2 steps away from getting NE/BE
half basalt
ok, i was wrong
sand umbra
my thing of it is just
Muramasa has no practical use and is merely a material for a better weapon
half basalt
(although technically if Skeletron is that boss, then sure, but you know what I mean)
tired haven
You can get all materials pre-boss tho?
half basalt
nope
tired haven
(given reaver shark)
sand umbra
whereas the other two weapons of the same general caliber require an additional boss so you get more use out of their components
sand umbra
no?
lost agate
no its not
tired haven
That's like, 1.5 years old news
sand umbra
general protip: use actual in-game experience instead of word of mouth
half basalt
someone else told me that
lost agate
but as i was saying, what worries me to moving it to post SG is that now NE/BE gets instantly outclasses by gelitic blade
sure its consistency but it would kill the weapon
sand umbra
...then
buff it?
seems simple enough to me. a weapon gets outclassed by moving it, you give it a buff so it is no longer outclassed
lost agate
its still true melee
half basalt
make a difference between the two so that there's a reason to use either one
or both
lost agate
but like
half basalt
also, **I will forever be tormented by the whole Reaver Shark thing 
**
seriously, big oof on my part
sand umbra
crim god straight-up stops you from using shit if you touch it, corro god inflicts weak
core inflicts distorted which fucks you the hell up
tired haven
Pre-SG NE at least is useful to melt mobs
Once you pass that gelitic blade is clearly superior choice
lost agate
idk how to fell about true melee tbh
half basalt
my least favorite debuff by far is Distorted
lost agate
its either melt or it bad 
half basalt
has it been made viable for SCal yet
tired haven
True melee in a game where everything and their mother has contact damage is pretty 
no
sand umbra
and also where half the enemies inflict every debuff in the universe on contact
half basalt
lost agate
they didnt do anything at vanilla to make true melee not just facetanking or melting, the game
sand umbra
shout-out to Crimulan Slime God and everything it spawns inflicting Cursed, meaning a Nazar is necessary for true melee to even work
lost agate
parries could have existed, blocking attacks could have existed
but we got none of that
tired haven
Melee animations could have existed (look at armed zombie)
sand umbra
true melee could've had so much more fucking meaning to it
half basalt
i believe Overhaul includes dodge rolling, but that's it afaik
Not sure about Better Combat
but at that point, those would be other mods
lost agate
im not really gonna star that suggestions solely because idk how to feel about it
half basalt
And if we need mods, non official content, to make a sub class slightly interesting, that says something
sand umbra
i mean now that you've brought up the point i myself don't know how to feel about it
lost agate
the idea is nice its just that thinking about true melee is for me
sand umbra
and i'm the one that sugged it
civic pond
BLESS YOU COSMIC DISCHARGE
sand umbra
like, this is where a lot of my perpetual desire to overhaul subclasses comes from
most sort of nuance that should come with various weapon types simply does not exist in vanilla
true melee is ass
subclasses mean nothing
summoner as a whole is a big meme
half basalt
especially pre hardmode
civic pond
it makes me wonder why vanilla added them in the first place
sand umbra
these things should be expanded upon and given more reason to exist
tired haven
Ranger, mage, magic melee, that's what exists
sand umbra
but nope. never happened
karmic stone
Nobody:
Thomas: on this episode of weird suggestions...
But yhea this spicing up of both edges seems interesting
half basalt
like wtf, best thing you can get against wof is the IMP STAFF?
sand umbra
i suppose this is where my whole subclass obsession came from
the infuriating lack of nuance with Terraria's combat
half basalt
Summon isnt even a goddamned subclass
sand umbra
see I wanna believe you
but at the same time...
summoner gets cucked for half the game and only becomes decent at the very end with Stardust Diggety
and by then you have weapons that shit on everything anyway so it's completely pointless
tired haven
A bit earlier, with Xeno Staff tbh
tired haven
2 sentries so
half basalt
which is fucking gross 
tired haven
yeah
tired haven
1.5 bosses
half basalt
Um, there's Duke
karmic stone
Imagine not doing Duke directly after WoF
half basalt
Imagine that
tired haven
Post-plant duke tbh
lost agate
duke with summons on vanilla is just asking for torture tbf
sand umbra
vanilla duke is just the fattest fuck you to summoners
half basalt
too bad, as he also gives some damn good weapons for all classes (except melee 
)
sand umbra
he's ass to hit with anything you get at that tier
lost agate
flairon smh
karmic stone
Isn't Flairon like, really good
half basalt
(that's ONE weapon, i know it's good, but still, ONE.)
tired haven
Flairon is good
sand umbra
Flairon was BoF before it was cool
tired haven
Any duke drop is good, actually
sand umbra
tired haven
Too bad cultist exists because celestial weps render any duke drop but razorblade useless
half basalt
I used Daedalus up until post Pillars, bite me.
karmic stone
Also Flairon doesn't do good with swarms, like the pillars right after
tired haven
what does then
sand umbra
Too bad cultist exists because celestial weps render any duke drop but razorblade useless
yeah pretty much
half basalt
meanwhile, the ranged weapon does, the magic weapons do, and summon is almost always good against hordes
sand umbra
Duke's weapons are relevant for literally one boss and then Pillar shit overrides everything that isn't Razorblade
civic pond
damn
karmic stone
One "boss"
half basalt
there needs to be a little more between duke and lc, if im being honest
karmic stone
sand umbra
and even then, Nebula Arcanum can compare decently to Razorblade Typhoon
civic pond
Duke actually had a really good drop pool
half basalt
but alas, next (and last) update for vanilla wont have any new hm bosses
civic pond
i used flairon to cheese ML ffs
queen delta
I consider ravager between duke and lc
karmic stone
^
half basalt
@queen delta IN VANILLA
tired haven
I feel like pbg, duke, ravager and cultist all share the same tier
queen delta
OKAY THEN
tired haven
screm
queen delta
sand umbra
pbg, duke, ravager and cultist
karmic stone
Reee i'm wearing headphones
sand umbra
one of these things is not like the others
karmic stone
Cultist
civic pond
all the same tier
tired haven
Ah yes, the enslaved powercreep
civic pond
what the fuck :thinkies:
civic pond
and then we have fucking Ass duse
sand umbra
ass drum two
tired haven
a meme regarding cultist's high-tier equipment
karmic stone
Terry should update quickly so we can taste that sweet masodeath LC
half basalt
also unrelated, but how do you make out of this lol
sand umbra
it's quite literally a point and click adventure
tired haven
Because nuanced = hard = boring
(for 10yo kids iirc)
half basalt
hard = boring
sand umbra
and ML isn't boring?
half basalt
wait what 10 year old thinks that
sand umbra
iirc
radiant meadow
ML is annoying
half basalt
oh no, ML is a... special case.
sand umbra
ML is aggravating beyond compare and actually not fun to go through
civic pond
Honestly if you think about it, every weapon minus summoner is basically tape your mouse..?
radiant meadow
non autofire
civic pond
except no autoswing
half basalt
and summoner is literally to do fucking nothing
sand umbra
this is a game where an eye can grow teeth
sand umbra
this is a game where you literally kill a man to summon a giant wall of flesh and hatred
tired haven
Funnily enough I spend more resources managing summoner than ranged or mage
radiant meadow
vanilla phoenix blaster is like epic tho
sand umbra
this is a game where the death messages are the most gruesome things imaginable.
and you wanna tell me nuance is what's gonna turn off a child from playing.
tired haven
Because summons are dum
civic pond
spikecrag ooa memes
half basalt
where tortured and pained souls live in the dungeon
Gruesome player, NPC, boss, and enemy deaths
sand umbra
nuance is what makes a game fun
half basalt
Some weapons literally use fuckin blood for their attack
sand umbra
so why does vanilla have none of it
half basalt
i think nuance is the last thing that will turn a child on off
~~or what Thomas said, basically ~~
tired haven
Look
There is parry mechanic, with 5-fucking-x damage amplifier, perfect nuance
How many people you know who unironically use that to their advantage outside of 20k+ dmg hit memes?
karmic stone
You would expect the final boss to be highly skill-based
*Cries in 3 fucking lasers from different eyes with 2 seconds interval
sand umbra
literally nobody uses the Brand of the Inferno
tired haven
Exactly
sand umbra
I wish I was joking
half basalt
tf is that
karmic stone
OOA sword
sand umbra
the original parry sword
karmic stone
With a really cool effect that should be expanded on
tired haven
bonk
sand umbra
right-click with a shield equipped to block
doing so with the right timing grants you a buff that grants extreme boosts to your next attack
half basalt
why the fuck do we need unofficial mods to make a subclass SLIGHTLY interesting?
karmic stone
500% specifically
karmic stone
If you dont have a shield it doesnt work lol
sand umbra
...except the mechanic is useless because nobody uses BotI to begin with and even if they did there are better options available at every possible tier you'd use it
half basalt
like fuck, i wouldn't mind if they had at least HALF BAKED the idea, and let modders improve it
sand umbra
hell, nobody goes through OOA to begin with
half basalt
but no, didnt even bother. Come on.
sand umbra
nobody that isn't a summoner, farming for Vesuvius, or playing Thorium even bothers with OOA
simply because it's a useless event
karmic stone
Only reason you should do OOA is for the Valhalla knight meme 60%+ damage
Which btw is only with Clam
So yhea vanilla stinky
sand umbra
Brand of the Inferno's mechanic is thus entirely worthless and it makes me wonder why more weapons don't have that effect
that alone would make true melee the most interesting thing on the planet
half basalt
because by the time I actually come around to it, I have post ml gear 
radiant meadow
imagine farming for Vesuvius though
sand umbra
and would allow for tons of new mechanics and accessories/upgrades revolving around blocking/parrying and potential combo attacks
but NOPE
"melee is just mage without mana fuck you lol"
tired haven
Actually
The amount of people who unironically use vesuvius might be even lower than who uses BotI
half basalt
ah nah, fuc that, let's just make no mana ma- Damn it, you stole it.
sand umbra
that's what it is even in vanilla
I wish it wasn't! but it is
that's the game we work with. a game that completely throws what melee is supposed to mean out the window
half basalt
Like let's be real, all "melee" people ever do is use the projectile from the sword
not the actual sword
tired haven
can we get a second to appreciate how people pretend flying dragon is a good sword when terra blade outclasses it in almost every way aside from phasing projectiles
half basalt
who pretends that's true, wtf
tired haven
Have seen that, no idea either
sand umbra
why do you think I have a vendetta against AotC, per chance?
it's the manifestation of everything vanilla does wrong with melee cranked up to 11
half basalt
AotC?
tired haven
Tbh
sand umbra
Calamity not only makes the issue clearer, it amplifies it tenfold
tired haven
The limit of shooting swords should be at around beam sword power
If projectile does more than that it's smelly design
half basalt
hopefully Yharim (who is player sized) will give some cool melee combat.
radiant meadow
beam sword power sounds extremely spooky
karmic stone
Slightly above player size*
half basalt
@sand umbra what's aotc?
tired haven
You can do far more work by swinging beam sword than projectiles is what I mainly meant
sand umbra
Ark of the Cosmos.
queen sail
Ark of the Cosmos
half basalt
ah
sand umbra
I have.
queen sail
And you may as well say the entire game is biased towards ranged attacks, anyways
tired haven
There are just no late game swords that have same kind of damage ratios and cooldown on projectile
half basalt
we need a giant sword as a half meme weapon, half "the only true melee weapon that's viable against SCal".
sand umbra
I have come to just accept it as a fact of life.
tired haven
Hell, terra blade specifically has 1.25x dmg on projectile 
sand umbra
half basalt
@tired haven WTF why
tired haven
And influx waver is basically 3x if target is stationary
Good design of a sword iirc
half basalt
Now they just purposefully made Terra Blade's.. ya know, BLADE, completely obsolete
half basalt
might as well be using a magic weapon that does tha- oh fucking wait
sand umbra
And this explains why, despite accepting projectile swords as a fact of life, I am far from okay with them.
They only amplify the existing issue rather than working towards fixing it.
queen sail
Tbh the only late hm vanilla true melee sword is horseman’s blade
And even then that’s a stretch
half basalt
are patron items still a thing?
sand umbra
yeah
queen sail
Yeah
tired haven
Ataraxia is probably unironically good example of projectile sword if not for the fact everything around that tier is death for true melee range aside from hearts
radiant meadow
it's $50 now
half basalt
@queen sail horseman's blade fires out pumpkins, so no not really
queen sail
Yes but only on true melee hits
sand umbra
On hit.
half basalt
yeah i know, but still projectiles. I suppose.
sand umbra
And that is what separates the Horseman's Blade from many other late-game swords.
half basalt
^
tired haven
Charged attacks 
sand umbra
Its effect is only activated on true strikes.
half basalt
In that case
queen sail
Or smth
tired haven
Right click with 2s cooldown tbh
radiant meadow
I thought what separates the horsemsn's blade is statue and wiring memes
sand umbra
burh
half basalt
I kinda hope a patron just requests a stupidly small shortsword that fires a bunch of magic ass looking projectiles
just as a jab (pun not intended) at the melee bullshit
sand umbra
Oh trust me, if I were writing my patron item now I would do exactly that both to revitalize shortswords and as a parody. A satirical commentary on the complete and utter disregard for what melee is supposed to mean.
queen sail
Like we don’t really even do shortswords justice either
They also succumb to cripple class memes™
tired haven
Elemental shiv kinda exists
radiant meadow
you can change your patron item if you want
half basalt
tired haven
Unless you want to like, exaggerate it to skies
radiant meadow
you can't change it once it's sprited or coded though
half basalt
wait, which ones are your patron items?
queen sail
Honestly I’d just make a Murasama upgrade for Satan Might Piss His Pants memes
half basalt
@sand umbra
queen sail
Because melee needs some motivation™
tired haven
2 pixels long shortsword that does swordsplosion-tier screen shittery
half basalt
^
tired haven
radiant meadow
except yateveo bloom because the original idea was sprited but turns out it was ass to code
sand umbra
rip in pizza
radiant meadow
think death rays on hotkey
half basalt
Here's what I would donate:
radiant meadow
the original idea was post prov
civic pond
i hope mounts aren't ass to code
civic pond
a
half basalt
A magic item that uses bullets or arrows
sand umbra
but yeah, just
if I were to request such an item, it would quite frankly simply be a commentary on the fact that melee does not mean melee at all anymore
half basalt
Yeah, I have the same problem with magic/ranged
sand umbra
a satirical jab at the whole thing, if you will
queen sail
The game that doesn’t even fucking know itself
The open world sandbox with tierlocked rpg elements
sand umbra
I really need to get around to a full-on melee adjustment at some point.
But alas, I don't think I have the patience right now for such a large-scale undertaking.
And it's likely better to do it by subclass/weapon classification.
tired haven
suggest counterscarf rework so it's actually... counters stuff, yknow
civic pond
I wish true melee could have the shieldbonking mechanic expanded upon
sand umbra
Oh I have ideas for true melee.
They just won't necessarily involve a GUI. True melee, if all goes to plan, will take a more...
active approach.
sand umbra
True melee can consist of shield-blocking, parrying, and overall a bunch of things that should've been expanded upon to begin with.
civic pond
i-frames
half basalt
oh yeah, player needs i frames when you use shield bash so you dont just immediately get hit
tired haven
I wonder if that behaviour of bashing shields can be even fixed
queen sail
Where almost everything is tierlocked
tired haven
I mean, the issue is that it overrides iframes you were given on getting hit
So you just get hit again in rapid succession
tired haven
Yes?
sand umbra
That's not what one should do with something like that.
Hell I'm almost certain one of the Master Ninja Gear components does literally this exact thing with the exception that it is not a shield.
radiant meadow
black belt?
sand umbra
Probably. I can't ever remember them seperately.
half basalt
@queen sail here, same meme, but its tiers
Pre-HM:
can get Hellstone preboss
can get almost every NE material pre boss
can realisticly skip every boss except WOF obvs
can get gold and platinum with a broken copper pickaxe
HM:
No fuck you, this isnt open anymore.
Cobalt/Palladium
Mythril/Orchicalum
Adamantite/Titanium
All mech bosses, no way to go ahead otherwise
Plantera, no way otherwise
Golem, no way otherwise
Duke, the only optional boss, and one of the best bosses in vanilla. Period.
bullshit lunar events
COMPLETE fucking bs Moon Laughable Bullshit
tired haven
Mmm it kinda doesn't, given that applied iframes are bigger than what you get normally
sand umbra
All I remember is Tabi giving the dash.
Mmm it kinda doesn't, given that applied iframes are bigger than what you get normally
is that not the intended behavior of a shield bash?
tired haven
No, I talk about black belt
queen sail
Virgin Hardmode vs Chad PreHardmode tbh
tired haven
(the possible material of MNG you meant)
sand umbra
i'm confused
what exactly is your point?
Ideally, it should be possible to adjust player i-frames in the same manner to prevent an immediate hit on the next frame.
radiant meadow
when you shield bash something with asgard's valor, elysian/asgardian aegis, or cryo lore, your i frames are set to 4
npc i frames are set to 6
half basalt
If i'm being honest, Duke should be considered a Pre-Lunar superboss
radiant meadow
set equal to
sand umbra
npc i frames are set to 6
your i frames are set to 4
...given that Terraria runs at 60FPS something does not add up here
radiant meadow
player.immune = true;
player.immuneNoBlink = true;
player.immuneTime = 4;```so here's a question
tired haven
Okay, let me sort the info I guess:
Normally player gets 40 iframes when getting hit
Shield bash overrides that with x (feels like 10 but either way drastically lower than above number)
In result, if you bash through big enemy you deplete your health quicker than just by standing inside it 
half basalt
radiant meadow
Tabi doesn't give i frames
tired haven
Shield of Cthulhu does the same thing but only once, since the dash stops once you bonk
tired haven
You still can get double hit because of that
half basalt
i have the same problem with counter scarf, but to a bigger extent
tired haven
so ye
sand umbra
But it still gives i-frames upon bonking an enemy, does it not?
radiant meadow
it does
radiant meadow
enemies get more i frames than you do when you bonk pretty sure
same with slimy saddle bonk or unicorn ram
tired haven
They get standart pierce iframes iirc
sand umbra
radiant meadow
black belt dodge is completely separate afaik
tired haven
(gotta love red for awesome pierce iframes mechanic)
sand umbra
...i swear looking into this later is going to hurt my head
tired haven
Also I'm pretty sure you get 6 frames from bonks/bashes
not 4
Otherwise slime saddle dummy engine wouldn't work
half basalt
~~What would you think if I suggested for Reaver Shark to be remade unusable preboss 
~~
half basalt
ok, people use iirc completely differently on this server lol
tired haven
m?
tired haven
there were a few... enthusiasts who wanted to return reaver shark block
Let's say it wasn't a success
half basalt
"Moon Lord sucks iirc"
tired haven
That's what I meant by iirc in that one
sand umbra
return reaver shark block
half basalt
no
queen sail
Bruh
sand umbra
i'm just gonna have you stop right there
half basalt
Reaper Shark
queen sail
“Everything is now irrelevant”
half basalt
wait hold up
tired haven
"What is pre-hm progression" shark
half basalt
oh yeah, that too
sand umbra
Reaver Shark
more like
61 - Adjusted the Reaver Shark's pickaxe power so that it can no longer mine Hardmode ores. - ✅
why am I the first person to do this
half basalt
"You think Calamity lets you skip everything? Look at ME" Shark
viscid tiger
What's wrong with being able to skip stuff though?
half basalt
nothing
tired haven
Well this one in particular skips a bit too much
half basalt
^ aside from that
sand umbra
and yes, this is an Entropy's Edge change because I find it retarded that a pre-boss pick, Ocean fishing catch or not, can mine Hardmode ores
queen sail
Let’s see
half basalt
**at least if you skip everything in HM, ML is even fucking worse **
queen sail
It makes killing eow/boc irrelevant for gaining access to hellstone
viscid tiger
Yes, but you have to fish to get it
queen sail
And that’s not that hard
half basalt
@viscid tiger yes, but fishing is available PRE BOSS
viscid tiger
fishing
viscid tiger
Yes
sand umbra
/think...
oh wait
queen sail
Tedious isn’t hard
tired haven
Fishing may be smelly, but it doesn't make it hard
viscid tiger
Very tedious
half basalt
really fucking tedious
sand umbra
fishing is uber smelly in vanilla
half basalt
but not hard
sand umbra
because the Angler is an asshole
queen sail
You know what is also tedious
half basalt
we need a :UberFailure:
queen sail
Grinding for halimeme preboss
sand umbra
and won't give me the last goddamn thing I need I swear to god
radiant meadow
probably won't be getting any more failure emotes in this server
half basalt
@sand umbra that's why I """""make him leave""""" any time he doesnt give me what i want
viscid tiger
angler has left
half basalt
"Fuck you, do 1000000000 more quests, order me a pizza, and go heck off and do the fuck bullshit bull whatever i ask you to do"-ler
queen sail
Tbh ReLogic’s sense of thinking is instead of cleaning their mess they add more “cool stuff” on top of it
viscid tiger
If you suffer through fishing, you deserve to be able to skip progression
tired haven
I don't agree but that's how it goes in vanilla so
half basalt
^
sand umbra
...why do convos in this chat tend to veer way off of the original sugg's topic, now that I think of it
queen sail
There is no skill in fishing
half basalt
because it naturally leads to it iirc
queen sail
Just bait and good gear
sand umbra
it's an idle observation I've picked up over weeks of looking at this chat
half basalt
same
tired haven
Fun fact: a few of my hardcore runs feature day 2 rush to the ocean with a bug net, only to catch reaver shark in first 3 minutes
Suffering much
ouchie
The record time was getting it #3 loot
queen sail
Preboss halimeme requires you to survive one of the deadliest biomes in the game at a point where you will die in 1-3 hits
half basalt
be happy you ungrateful piece of shi-
half basalt
@queen sail down to 4th layer kinda thing?
queen sail
No, any enemy can drop it
half basalt
no i mean the weapon
queen sail
Wdym
half basalt
is it good up (or down i guess) to 4th layer?
queen sail
Using the weapon?
half basalt
yes
half basalt
never got it
literally
never cheated it in to see what it's like
never got it legit
fluid stone
its the best weapon all the way up until dog
karmic stone
Up to DoG*
proven tide
hearty plaza
half basalt
Yeah, pretty much.
I frames. Dashing accessories. Nuff said.
But seriously, accessories like Shield Of Cthulhu, Master Ninja Gear (when it does dodge), and Counter Scarf would be great.
That is, if they actually fuckin worked for the other half of the time . Half of the time, even if I dodge a little farther away from an enemy, but close enough so I don't lost I frames, for whatever hecc of a reason, I still take damage. After some talking in suggestions discussion, I saw that you only have 4 I frames after you dash. What?
There may not be a way to fix vanilla dashing accessories due to redcode, but this should be fixable for stuff like Counter Scarf.
...well?
hollow shell
(have patience ya shit it's only been 1 minute)
hearty plaza
yeah
half basalt
(I didn't mean that in an impatient way, I meant it as "what do you think of it" ;3;)
Just bumped a suggestion to 90 stars 
solemn flame
proven tide
karmic stone
Is this possible? Because if so it would be great for things like the truffworm and the 10 frogs needed for the FLeg
It's not possible, is it?
proven tide
everyone over the last week: buff ornate shield
me, an intellectual: remove verstaltite entirely
viscid tiger
To get the frogs for the frog leg, make a jungle biome in your town
Mini floating one
clear basin
rugged mist
Hasnt that exact suggestion been made before
worthy fiber
Part of a challenge is intending to do it
worthy fiber
so nah we ain't doin' that
proven tide
and i don't mean aww, moving this mechanic outside of its designated mechanic hole is bad
half basalt
oh, so basically, armageddon wouldnt exist with that suggestion
why tho
proven tide
i mean that hole contains only that mechanic
so if you put the mechanic elsewhere armageddon has no unique content
half basalt
^
elfin swan
Either way, is it even possible to guage that? Its not like you can go "oh this boss inflicted 0 damage in this fight, 5 bags for you"
honest crane
Yep just check for armageddon all the time
rugged mist
half basalt
certain accessories can check for damage
use that same system
(although I still don't agree, I think Arma should stay separate)
rugged mist
If you're gonna get nohit then why does it matter that getting hit doesn't kill you instantly
half basalt
Stardust, you lurking around here?
honest crane
Because it gives you a chance to beat the boss if you end up no-hitting the boss first try. Also this is kinda preventing those times when you die because you forget armageddon was on
void kelp
kinda ruins the point of a self-imposes challenge tbh
half basalt
But the point of Armageddon is the risk of dying instantly
rugged mist
Player forgetfulness isnt really a problem that should have to be addressed
void kelp
also I thought we discussed this last month?
half basalt
Plus
Dying instantly and losing to the boss and not getting a bunch of bags are completely different
with your suggestion, you would be cutting out the challenge of having to start the fight all over again if you get hit once
void kelp
there’s a reason why arma is optional and chosen by the player
half basalt
^
zenith hazel
armageddon is a high risk high reward type of deal
unless you’re using overpowered gear but I digress
half basalt
~~yeah, like a chump ~~
frail mantle
maybe instead, you only get one extra bag if you nohit a boss without Armageddon
half basalt
nah
lost agate
Wtf is absolute rage
zenith hazel
apparently the new heart attack, according to wiki
half basalt
the new name for Heart Attack
lost agate
Oh so another case of fallen paladin hammer
terse sundial
Yeah
lost agate
Hoh boy
terse sundial
May as well just slap it in the Dev server and get it fixed
zenith hazel
not that major of a change so yea
hollow shell
Not a fan of Survivor bolding his entire suggestion so it gets noticed more
distant gyro
rage is already buffed in a sense
void kelp
I love how i sort-of started a trend of bolding the most important points
rugged mist
Power play strikethrough the important points
queen sail
Atm it’s more useful to have full rage and rely on heart attack (or absolute rage now, fsr)
Then it is to use rage and the damage buff that comes with it
half basalt
(there, happy?)
hollow shell
yes
rugged mist
