Ye, I getcha
#suggestions-discussion
quiet abyss
queen sail
Demonic Pitchfork is ass
smoky wagon
Why is it still in
queen sail
Like one
queen delta
and most weapons are kinda filler
smoky wagon
its worse than the crimsaber
queen sail
Recipe is 1000 iq
smoky wagon
its like baby’s first weapon
half basalt
There are quite a few Underworld weapons.
queen sail
Because we all know melee weapons become mage weapons
hearty yew
I would remove vivid clarity, for example.
half basalt
Why
smoky wagon
Too high iq
hearty yew
would you rather have something usable like helium flash
quiet abyss
Well, if there's no filler weapons then technically all the currently interesting weapons will all be about as interesting as each other.
And so they become...not so interesting.
half basalt
The helium flash.
hearty yew
This.... thing.
quiet abyss
Some filler weapons are needed
queen delta
I like big crafting trees
hearty yew
vanilla has us covered on that front
half basalt
Yes
quiet abyss
True, except for post-ml stuffs
hearty yew
and yes, don't get me wrong. you need normal boring stuff
half basalt
Anyone got a complaint about the fact that every class turns into a different class?
hearty yew
because that both serves for completeness / immersion, and to make better content standout
sand umbra
filler weapons are needed to add a sense of variety, tbf
queen sail
@half basalt vanilla issue, hate to break it to you
queen delta
Also is it just me or was the old apoth/drat recipe better?
quiet abyss
But too many ain't good, ye?
half basalt
Like Mage just turns into a fuckin ranger around post ml
hearty yew
Here's the problem with calamity, everything tries to stand out. And some of it does a better job than others.
hearty plaza
Summoner is always Summoner, @half basalt
smoky wagon
and there isnt 7 classes
sand umbra
see I want to agree with you
hearty plaza
Implying more classes is a bad thing
sand umbra
except I'm also going to have to hard disagree with you
half basalt
Staff Of The Mechworm, good Arceus, what the fuck.
hearty yew
more classes is a bad thing
smoky wagon
more classes with more weapons for every class which you can never possibly care about or keep track of
hearty yew
rogue was a mistake and I've been tasked etching that mistake into stone
half basalt
If the classes are filler, it's bad.
queen sail
More classes is less of a bad thing and more of a pain tbh
smoky wagon
and make them multiplayer gimmicks also
hearty yew
you're welcome that it's compatible with throwing
queen sail
Bc there’s a lot of stuff to consider
half basalt
Why is rogue bad.
queen sail
Also wtf is cinquedea
hearty plaza
Bard is fun and i will die on this hill
queen sail
And glaive
hearty yew
because rev+ boss AIs were more important than finishing the mod's announced content
evidently
queen sail
Well yeah
hearty yew
otherwise rogue expansion would be out rn
smoky wagon
it had to be finished at some point
sand umbra
or fleshing out the variety of existing things in the mod that seriously lack a reason to exist beyond 1 or 2 bosses
queen sail
You guys needed more than just “Starts phase 2 at 90% HP”
hearty yew
hahahaha holy fuck
sand umbra
I'm ready to be smited for this assertion
hearty yew
that's a mood
half basalt
@sand umbra Murasama
hearty yew
Boss X starts phase Y at higher hp
smoky wagon
in terms of polishing content
hearty yew
That's a god damned mood
queen sail
That’s a calameme bad shit i heard in fargo server once
queen sail
Also thank fuck soul piercer isn’t just stronger elemental ray that somehow isn’t related to ER or VC at all
smoky wagon
Fargo’s poisons you for stepping in water
half basalt
Fargo Wells, find at your local Fuckoffland near you!
hearty plaza
thats Masomode which is like deathmode but gives you drops
half basalt
..what.
hearty yew
@sand umbra bosses rule calamity. everything revolves around them. every weapon must be useful for them. everything must be balanced around them. no boss is allowed to be easy, EVER (except desert scourge for some reason).
queen sail
If it brings you pain then its intention is working
sand umbra
half basalt
Mr. Crabs is easy.
quiet abyss
Well, KS and DS
hearty yew
KS is harder than ds
smoky wagon
Guys lets make the bloat from isaac in terraria
sand umbra
KS and DS are supposed to be ez
half basalt
PBG isn't that hard.
sand umbra
but everyboss else has to be difficult™
smoky wagon
Shitty game design = good game design because lol memes!!!
hearty plaza
p
PeanutButterGamer?
hearty yew
In any case
queen sail
Tbf DS has platform and grenade memes
half basalt
Plague.
Bringer.
Goliath.
half basalt
Ravager is easy.
strong prism
Does it royally bother anyone else that the Conclave crossfire uses a Conference call texture and THE conference call doesnt
smoky wagon
the problem is calamity adds no real new events
hearty yew
I will die on that hill because I believe that calamity goes about designing a cohesive experience completely wrong
sand umbra
.
half basalt
Cloneamitas is a fucking joke.
smoky wagon
so you cant balance anything for that
queen sail
Because events are aids to code iirc @smoky wagon
hearty yew
they aren't
queen sail
Last i heard
hearty yew
they're not bad
quiet abyss
"Ravager is easy"
Now that's an unpopular opinion if I see one.
Typically all I see with Ravs are complaints about how he's (too) hard.
hearty yew
just override spawn pool
smoky wagon
Making fucking awful vanilla miniboss armies two shot you
half basalt
Brimmy is fine as long as you have a rod.
sand umbra
buffing vanilla events
except nothing new happens
it's literally just more HP and more damage and more two-shotting
strong prism
it's in an attempt to make lategame content, but yea there are some serious issues
sand umbra
also known as WHY DON'T MOURNING WOODS DESPAWN FOR THE LOVE OF ALL MOTHER FUCK
zenith hazel
a lot of things are fine as long as you have a RoD
strong prism
if they changed up the enemies in ways that actually meant somethign it'd be great
hearty yew
again, like I said, snap
smoky wagon
guys its boring what do we do
queen sail
If you’re gonna buff existing stuff do stuff for it at least
half basalt
What is Post Doggo Santa-NK1?
smoky wagon
Oh i know: 500 DAMAGE LOL
arctic notch
Server Suggestion: Have an official Doc for Calamity Power Scaling, in real powerscaling tiers, like Planetary for example.
Why? It'd make it much easier for power scaling debates.
half basalt
Actually why is frost moon Post doggo period?
hearty yew
( filler, that's why )
zenith hazel
power scaling debates?
half basalt
No, I mean the difficulty.
hearty yew
it's there so you have literally anything to use your fancy post ML toys on
half basalt
Also yeah, new events would be nice.
arctic notch
Some have happened.
smoky wagon
i am not memeing when i say vanilla events buffs need to be replaced with original new content
zenith hazel
where?
hearty yew
otherwise calamity's post ML experience would fall on its face as a hollow boss rush that ends in a boss rush
smoky wagon
its a serious flaw and easily the worst part of calamity
arctic notch
queen sail
Also please save the power scaling shit for #lore-discussion
sand umbra
...I just realized
the Terminus
arctic notch
That's where it'd be.
queen sail
Because I literally do not want to deal with my brain being fried
zenith hazel
but is it necessary?
half basalt
Ohh yeah, now my joke is relevant.
hearty plaza
terminus drops from yharon but still says its sealed in the abyss
arctic notch
It'd clear many things up.
hearty yew
the answer is that despite being able to kill literal gods which can blow up planets, yharim has yet to prove he is capable of anything close to planetary annihilation
half basalt
deep inhale x2
hearty yew
so calamity's power scaling means fucking nothing
not to mention the broken power curve in game
smoky wagon
is planetary annihilation broken now
queen sail
@hearty yew honestly at this point Yharim is probably just a mary sue in the end
hearty yew
your dps triples like five times post ML
arctic notch
If you do basic powerscaling, you can tell he's far above it.
zenith hazel
power levels are bullshit tbh
hearty plaza
why can terminus drop from yharon
better yet, why can it drop from yharon multiple times
hearty yew
I'll explain
sand umbra
post-ML power scaling is absurd
queen sail
Because the bar is raised way too high
strong prism
if they gave the events a makeover it'd be AMAZING. make some new thematic enemies for the events. maybe for pumpkin moon Draedon's abominations escaped into the wild. maybe destruction of the devourer caused a meaningful increase in power of the enemies. maybe the pumpking can fade away and do a teleporty bit(a bit like signus) for the ice queen i'm not sure
hearty yew
Because fab got mad
half basalt
Skipbossbossbossbossbossboss
WoF
Skipbossbossbossbossbossbossbossbossbossboss
ML
Oh sorry bish, you gotta fight a buncha bosses in a row now! What? This isnt consistent? How about fuck off.
arctic notch
At the very least Solar System level via being Far superior to Deus, who devours Celestial bodies by the dozen.
hearty yew
Because shrines didn't always have chests
Because of slopes
Which is now fixed
That's the hilarious part at the end of the story
sand umbra
why is the first immediate major boss post-ML capable of having literally double the health
hearty yew
Yharon doesn't need to drop terminus anymore
queen sail
Technically post mo is still nonlinear up to yharon
sand umbra
strong prism
X this isn't the place for powerscaling
sand umbra
actually no
three times the health
queen sail
Which isn’t much but then again there’s isn’t much left post ml
hearty plaza
at least it makes a good counter for how many times ive beaned the dragon in total
half basalt
Jesus fuck, i just now realized
quiet abyss
...Does this discussion even belongs in this channel anymore, actually?
I can't recall the original topic before it turned into this.
hearty yew
But it all started with fab being mad that people couldn't play his boss rush
No. It doesn't.
half basalt
Yeah. What is power scaling in this mod?
sand umbra
oh yeah
we're still in suggs discussion
hearty yew
I'll leave before I get warned.
sand umbra
should we move somewhere 
arctic notch
I can make a thing for it.
quiet abyss
Then we should prolly wrapped up this convo now
quiet abyss
This has gone on for a lil too long 
arctic notch
Aight.
quiet abyss
That or #calamity-mod-talk , yes
strong prism
yes, it does belong in this channel. we are discussing flaws within the mod and trying to figure out what would fix them
half basalt
Nah. It is calamity related.
hearty yew
yes, devs get warned. it does happen.
half basalt
strong prism
or at least from my Point of view
hearty yew
👋
strong prism
it seems to fit almost perfectly
quiet abyss
That's for #calamity-mod-talk
This is for discussing about suggestions in #suggestions-voting
zenith hazel
power scaling is a flaw?
strong prism
i cant explain worth a shit, but it's trying to come up with a suggestion that would fix things in the best way possible is it not?
smoky wagon
power scaling gives an artificial sense of value to new gear
strong prism
it's deliberation over what kind of suggestion would have the best effect on the mod.
quiet abyss
At first it was that.
Before y'all start going on sprees about pointing out the flaws of calamity more than trying to come up with a way to fix it.
That's why I want the convo to wrap up, or atleast calm down.
smoky wagon
well specfic item suggs being banned makes it harder to imrpove stuff like the bad events
quiet abyss
Yes, but you spent time pointing out the flaws more than you're discussing about how to fix it.
smoky wagon
I feel like a “specific event suggestion” would go nowhere
Devs just see it and go “no lol”
queen sail
Yes but did you guys actually suggest improvements as much as you shit on what you were talking about
strong prism
yea
quiet abyss
^ what kirby said
queen sail
Like this is why most criticisms go bad
quiet abyss
Anyways, if y'all wanna continue discussing about making a suggestion to fix the flaws of calamity y'all poitned out, go ahead.
smoky wagon
Make nightmare fuel a entirely new event and make endothermic energy found from new undeground snow biome enemies
quiet abyss
But don't just keep pointing out flaws without actually coming up with solutions for it.
queen sail
People get caught up in the flaws so much they forget the good exists
smoky wagon
have there be new minibosses which drop large amounts of them
proven tide
popping in just to say https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/465195069406707722/627362386483085342
queen sail
And it becomes an endless circlejerk of more “Calameme bad”
strong prism
good exists, but the good doesnt need to be fixed
proven tide
thank you for coming to my ted talk, please be productive if you're going to bring up issues
strong prism
that's my logic on it
proven tide
back to essay
strong prism
if i don't complain nothing gets fixed XD
smoky wagon
complete silence because nobody cares about your epic oc
queen sail
Guwa will you please cut the crap already
quiet abyss
^
strong prism
we are in agreement
smoky wagon
Fine ill just stop caring
vocal grotto
Please don't be dramatic about it.
hearty yew
I'm sorry you have to moderate this, but the truth is there, everyone does want it improved.
quiet abyss
Mhm, I know.
hearty yew
we just don't have a consensus on where or how to start
proven tide
my essay it is a mystery
queen sail
I’d prefer somebody would not care than constantly be dramatic in showing the flaws of a mod and then just be complaining how tragic and horrible it is
proven tide
Okay here's my two-second smackdown of today's events
smoky wagon
I could complain in any way and it would be shot down
quiet abyss
Not if you put valid points into it.
smoky wagon
Ok i will
queen sail
Because you spend more time shitting on it than suggesting how it can be cleaned
smoky wagon
Rehashing old content from a mod that adds very good original content looks bad
Bumping damage values to absurd levels is lazy design
post ml needs new expansion and new events
thats my reasoning
smoky wagon
sorry if i was brash earlier
smoky wagon
i said those earlier but it was less concise
strong prism
Kirby, we don't think the mod is bad, it's great(we give a shit, that's why we complain)
This is the suggestion channel, we dont suggest fixing content that isnt broken
smoky wagon
If i though this mod actually sucked i wouldnt have donated money
strong prism
normally
quiet abyss
Stink, that one's been cleared up already.
No need to bring it up again.
queen sail
I would say it’s understandable how flimsy post ml is considering Terraria itself is pretty much completed after moon lord
But effort can be put in
smoky wagon
I really like most things in it but some things i feel like just go under the radar
strong prism
a stone was thrown before my own... that has a nice ring to it
queen sail
Like once moon lord is defeated you pretty much explored your entire world
smoky wagon
obv there are priorities atm but i do think removing rehashed content should be considered
because there is no clear consensus
Post-moon lord is indeed a glorified boss rush
queen sail
You have to think of interesting new content while using things people are used to
smoky wagon
just repopulate biomes with new enemies
have new enemies when uelibloom and bloodstone spawn in their biomes
queen sail
SoA has a much more polished post ml experience but all it adds in terms of worldgen is
smoky wagon
New dungeon enemies for phantoplasm
queen sail
One infection
sand umbra
new enemies
new events
potential worldgen memes if redcode becomes optimized enough to allow it when JE comes out
hearty plaza
whats SoA stand for?
queen sail
It’s hard to keep up Terraria’s exploration aspect simply because what is there left to explore
You just have existing stuff you walk back to
strong prism
What would be a way to fix the buffed events that is more than the unfortunate "Make the numbers bigger" approach
I say give the enemies appropriate attacks(at least the bosses)
queen sail
Honestly
smoky wagon
Maybe expand the underground astral infection post-ML
proven tide
X can need Y but don't make claims that you can't back up with any thing more than it feels like less than other parts, because that actually exacerbates and perpetuates a mindset of content for its own sake.
Additionally, when you get called out for inserting complaints and a narrative of degrading mod quality without anything positive to work from this, don't shit yourself and totally-not-complain about how the mods and devs are silencing anyone who disagrees with them.
The first step of highlighting issues should only be taken if you already have a way to step to the next one, which is seeking improvements with logic behind them. If you can't fit that, don't make outcries and complaints for their own sake; all you're doing is being a burden on discourse.
smoky wagon
like how hardmode expands the world evils
queen sail
Just remaster the Moon Events post DoG
proven tide
tl;dr it's good to see issues, but only if you try to do something reasonable with that info
smoky wagon
Ugly wall of text
sand umbra
Hardmode hardly expands the world evils. It's an issue with vanilla.
half basalt
Maybe add new events entirely for it..?
smoky wagon
calamity could pick up the ball for post-ml
queen sail
1.1 was a sign that the world evils would become more relevant than 1.2 decided “Hey jungle is cool lets make it pregnant”
strong prism
... who was the text wall aimed at?
half basalt
I know it's a big thing to ask for, but it would make post doggo events much more interesting.
sand umbra
Hive Mind and Perfs being HM bosses is something I'd absolutely stand by happening. Would give way for a boss that actually makes sense to introduce Aerialite as well.
smoky wagon
aimed at themselves to make themselves look smart
proven tide
the entire fucking chat as of the last three hours
smoky wagon
queen sail
Hmmmmm
sand umbra
I may or may not be very mildly biased because one boss idea I've had fits this bill to a T despite not at all being an EE idea
smoky wagon
Have cryogen as a pre hardmode boss maybe
sand umbra
h
smoky wagon
idk im throwing wacky ideas aroud
half basalt
(Yeah, why is it Hive Mind and Perforators that bless the world with Aerialite? That makes no sense.)
eager egret
Question is what kind of boss should it be thomas
queen sail
What would it be
eager egret
A harpie king/queen?
sand umbra
that is for me to know and for you to maybe find out
queen sail
Don’t really wanna think of some grand harpy because SoA has that already
smoky wagon
zenith hazel
then again boss suggestions are a no-no
half basalt
Also, I have a... weird relationship with the Fallen Star biome.
smoky wagon
This is just brainstorming
hearty plaza
what does SoA stand for?
half basalt
It's kinda just.. there.
hollow shell
Shadows of Abaddon
queen sail
Shadows of Abaddon @hearty plaza
hollow shell
it's a mod
strong prism
Maybe event bosses or minibosses could have effects based on the evil in your world.
For Crimson a more Ichory theme, while Coorruption uses cursed flames(and God slayers Inferno would be cool)
hearty plaza
thank
hollow shell
previously titled "SacredTools"
half basalt
The bars are basically useless outside of a few items
hollow shell
Technically yes
hollow shell
is that sarcasm
queen sail
Well i mean uh
smoky wagon
I joined this room in the past 20 minutes i didnt know about people arguing for three hours
dusty stirrup
He's been postponed enough
strong prism
Any ideas off of evil themed difficulty increases post DoG?
half basalt
Something about the blood moon?
strong prism
i joined around the same time. i didn't know it was going on for so long
smoky wagon
New enemies that ignore tiles and a miniboss
hollow shell
I can't tell if you're implying we should focus on other shit before moving on with the mod's progression
or if you're making a joke because Draedon has already been postponed so hard
half basalt
Aside from Bloodflare, not touched on much.
queen sail
Former
hollow shell
Ok welp
hollow shell
devs aren't going to like to hear that
smoky wagon
post-ml enemies should be very agile and probably have a way to get to the player easuly
queen sail
I think you guys should try and clean up some stuff
proven tide
i'm going to back out of this shitshow of a chat
half basalt
No fuck, devs aint gonna like hearing that lol
queen sail
Otherwise this probably wouldn’t be as intense as it was a few minutes ago
proven tide
https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/465195069406707722/627370343107002377
I meant all of what I said, please be nice and add things to the discussion, this has been a public service announcement
cyas uwu
half basalt
Probably because they've been actively working on it.
queen sail
I mean ig but
hearty yew
@queen sail actually the jokes on you draedon's update or the one right before it is slated for massive content cleanup and improvement
queen sail
quiet abyss
^
half basalt
O o f
quiet abyss
^
half basalt
In that case, all the better. We should put in our suggestions for that update. I guess.
hearty yew
Alright. Now I'm actually gonna dip. One less dev watching.
queen sail
:cri:
hearty yew
I always encourage high value suggestions. Because I can promise you they don't get ignored. They get added to the huge laundry list of things to do when we get around to that grand improvement update
queen sail
Hm
quiet abyss
^ Mhm, what Ozza said
hearty yew
Because I'll be clear, we don't have many of our own improvement plans
Outside of what I have plans for, which is mostly making code more efficient
sand umbra
quiet abyss
It's just that some things take a while to be implemented and/or they are other higher priorities.
queen sail
Should I just suggest to completely remaster the buffed moon events to be unique instead of stat buff memes
hearty yew
It's likely to turn into a colossal avalanche of implemented suggestions
queen sail
Like upgraded versions of the enemies and minibosses
hollow shell
Something pertaining to that is coming, Kirby
queen sail
Oh, goody
hearty yew
yes that I can also confiem
half basalt
@hearty yew wait. Thought you had your own complaints. What about those?
queen sail
Anyways please give love to my boi Razorpine :cri:
hearty yew
specifically, new unique foes for buffed moons
quiet abyss
^
queen sail
My fav wep from 1.2 needs love :hypertrauma:
hearty yew
razorpine is where it should be balance wise
hollow shell
Mistlestorm?
hearty yew
way too strong in vanilla
queen sail
Yeah though i heard it’s decent where it is in comparison to other options
half basalt
You had your own complaints and issues with some parts of the mod.
You aren't going to ask the devs about that for the update that's coming?
queen sail
He probably already did
hearty yew
no, I'll just do it myself
I'm the lead programmer. I'll just make my own improvements. I keep a to-do list of long term tasks for this purpose
hollow shell
(lead non-Fab programmer)
queen sail
I gotta admit that rev golem is actually p cool
hearty yew
(yes)
queen sail
Kudos on that
half basalt
Still havent seen Rev Golem.
hearty yew
thanks I guess
queen sail
Namely the head actually does something now 
quiet abyss
Yes
queen delta
I plan on nohitting his enraged version sometime soon
half basalt
O shit, not on the latest version
queen sail
@half basalt golem head is a player position locked turret and golem body can spam lasers and summon fireballs on stomp in p2
half basalt
Wellllllllll
queen sail
Basically the shit you’d have expected expert golem to be somewhat
half basalt
Locked turret?
quiet abyss
As in he locks onto your position.
half basalt
And he shoots at you?
quiet abyss
Yes
half basalt
Ah, so no circling
night cradle
if the astral blade was in the terratomere recipe, then the said blade would be pretty much irrevelant, because they are on the same tier
astral bars are just in so xeroc greatsword has at least some use on deus
ashen warren
Or maybe we can make Terratomere post-ML by adding Luminite to the recipe.
So Astral Blade can be still relevant.
Of course, Astral Blade and Terratomere should be buffed.
ashen warren
Because Terratomere gets irrelevant after getting Ark of The Elements and Omega Biome Blade.
ashen warren
But the weird part is Astral Bars are really irrelevant aside from Armor and maybe a few weapons.
night cradle
and it's a good weapon to keep in early Post-ML until you obtain Ark, Biome Blade or other weapon that melee has in their arsenal
ashen warren
They are like they don't exist, they are just there.
You only use them to craft Armor, Starcore, maybe one weapon for your class and that's it.
They just become irrelevant as soon as you get them.
You only use them for Pillars, maybe Moon Lord and Deus.
reef plover
there's a bunch of things like that tho
but they just get kinda outclasses by the other weapons at that tier
bronze beacon
But they would have more uses
smoky wagon
Xeroc greatsword was only ever directly outclassed by terratomre
now it isnt since they are slightly different tiers
half basalt
@signal prairie is that why he constantly says the head quotes despite me not touching him?
signal prairie
yep
queen sail
More or less I’d rather have that fixed so that DoG isn’t a rapper anymore
half basalt
@ashen warren that's exactly what i said last night.
Yeah, about me saying I felt weird about the Astral Infection, the Astral Bars are basically useless, aside from one mana upgrade.
The armor is very meh.
The tools are useless, as you'll probably already have a shroomite digging claw or Picksaw by the time Deus is dead.
And overall it's pretty forgettable, if it weren't for the giant fuckin crater.
placid moth
@zinc thunder I don't think legendary scaling is returning
night cradle
Theyre supposed to be good for their tier
jovial spire
Some of them are
night cradle
And scaling is not coming back bc it made playthroughs use one type of a weapon and it was pretty tedious to balance
zinc thunder
I guess
jovial spire
only 4 good ones are Blossum Flux, Cosmic Discharge, Malashite, and Aeigis Blade
terse sundial
It's already been sent, there is no reason to post it again
At this point I may just remove the reactions from it
There is no point in re-suggesting it
@polar dock Amidias/Sea King already sells truffle worms post-Fishron
Lore reasons iirc
tired haven
Remove aegis blade from that list tbh
polar dock
O
tired haven
polar dock
aegis blade is good
tired haven
And add shpc
tired haven
perhaps
placid moth
There's so much information to take in
jovial spire
Yep lore reasons
Amadias’ pet, Duke Fishron, ran after the destruction, seeking haven in the other ocean, with the only thing getting his attention being his favorite snack, truffle worms.
zinc thunder
somebody put him down, his rabies in expert mode make him go NANI?
sand umbra
honestly
Skeletron teleporting is a neat idea but like
why can you not tell where it's going to put him at all
it makes the fight a dozen times worse to deal with than it needs to be
void kelp
a telegraph would be v good
sand umbra
like, if nothing else can change about Skeletron
then only have this change
because this alone would fix like 90% of the problems with the teleport mechanic in the first place
terse sundial
I thought that we already accounted for that where Skeletron will teleport in a similar manner to Duke Fisheon
It's just much slower
half basalt
honestly
sand umbra
no?
half basalt
the moment i heard that skeletron in the newest update teleports around now
sand umbra
or at least, if it has happened, I've never gotten word of it
half basalt
I thought "oh, good, more bullshit teleporting that gets players killed, and on Skeletron no less"
sand umbra
did I miss a memo?
half basalt
sounds like i was fuckin right
terse sundial
Crab brought up the teleport in the Dev server
Fab adjusted it to make it very predictable
sand umbra
ah.
half basalt
ah.
terse sundial
We did that prior to the updates release
queen delta
predictable as in, skeletron yells out ooga booga before teleporting?
terse sundial
When I tested Skeletron I thought it was perfectly fine
sand umbra
...I've fought him quite a few times in the newest update and I never saw any sort of tell for Skeletron's teleport
half basalt
Yeah, what Yat and Thomas said.
sand umbra
or, more specifically, where he'll be after it
there's a tell for when it'll happen, but not one for where he'll be
which is the important thing here
terse sundial
If you are moving right, it will teleport right, vise versa
that's how I thought it went
sand umbra
doesn't seem that way, from my experiments
half basalt
lemme try, i'll go download it
terse sundial
I just treated if similarly to Signus and it went well
void kelp
it’s also now on the mod browser
void kelp
fab didn’t announce it but it was kinda implied since he moved
half basalt
so... it is, or it may be?
teal ibex
imo an indicator of where he'll be is less interesting than like, a telegraphed sfx or something
teal ibex
especially if he can just inherit duke or yharon style teleports which can only be in 2/4 spots anyway
half basalt
also hey hectique
teal ibex
hiya
i havent yet fought skeletron but im always a sucker for proactive dodge mechanics. making you think ahead a step is way more interesting to me than see indicator > run other way
teal ibex
you should be concerned about both
sand umbra
okay lemme rephrase
I'm mainly concerned about what's fair
sand umbra
given the fact that Skeletron is a pre-Hardmode boss I refuse to believe having no indicator at all of where he's going to be after a teleport is fair
it's a higher difficulty, I get that, but the line between too easy and too hard seriously needs to be drawn somewhere
teal ibex
my general counterpoint is that if you can see where he'll be it's a rather self defeating premise -- he teleports, but you already know where beforehand, so its a huge shrug
hence why i think predetermined + sfx is an adequate compromise
sand umbra
doesn't help that he can be doing literally anything when teleporting
tired haven
If only sfx wasn't garbage and any sound couldn't override it
Plus not everyone plays with stereo
sand umbra
meaning if he's spinning while teleporting he's also probably right next to you and ready to combo your ass into oblivion 
teal ibex
i mean, masomode does something similar
void kelp
also! some of us play the game muted
teal ibex
as long as you use the right sound
tired haven
And in maso the wof roar is skipped half the time
Gotta love being randomly seduced by divine laser but that's another talk
teal ibex
mmmmm, i suppose thats true that some players go muted, but a similar idea is used in the yharon fight atm
void kelp
I really prefer having a visual cue because I don’t play w sound on
tired haven
Like?
teal ibex
and i dont recall people complaining about that anymore
yharon telegraphs each teleport dash with a roar
sand umbra
I mean he also telegraphs each teleport dash with a shitload of dust where he ended up
void kelp
tbh I use the minimap for my cue and all
sand umbra
and his map icon remains when he's doing so
teal ibex
does the skelly map icon not?
sand umbra
there's still a tell
it's not an obvious one, but it's there and it's enough for people to figure out "hey, I should notice xyz thing"
tired haven
Teleport dashes in sp7 are accompanied with premature regular dash which is far more reliable info
Plus sfx plays after the teleport so it really is mostly for visuals
sand umbra
Skeletron's teleports are instantaneous with no tell as to where he'll be after the fact
teal ibex
i mean, it at least helped me learn it crabbo, for what its worth
sand umbra
which easily sets up cheap hits, especially if he's spinning while teleporting
tired haven
figured, just explained why it's not that relevant
You can't guess from sfx where yharon will appear
void kelp
so long as there’s both a visual and aural cue it should be good
teal ibex
ye but the movement at that stage makes up for it luckily. prehm movement isnt quite as lucky
sand umbra
yeah pre-HM movement is
ass
which is the other thing
you don't really get a lot of room for error with a teleport in pre-Hardmode because mobility is sorely lacking until later on
teal ibex
i mean, if a visual cue is required for a compromise so be it, i just find it to detract from the whole teleporting idea in the first place -- but totally removing it would be a bit much anyway LOL
i mean, there were already two teleporting prehardmode bosses 
this one just moves fast
sand umbra
yeah
Brain and HIV Mind both move relatively slow by comparison, allowing enough time to figure out where they are and where you should be
tired haven
There currently is visual cue for skeletron which is dust, but it doesn't tell you where the teleport will go
Also, well, I guess it's supposed to be a pace shaker, but it's really inconvenient as well
teal ibex
oh wait 3 bosses then, cuz king slime
teal ibex
give. king slime. lore. 
zealous ridge
i would feel better if there was like... a shadowflame outline where he's going to teleport... that might work
sand umbra
but yeah
I like the idea of Skeletron teleporting, but the way it's done right now is just very awkward to deal with for the tier Skeletron is at and doesn't really make the fight more enjoyable or skillful imo
zealous ridge
if only for like a second
is the teleport consistent currently though? like does it always activate every... 10 seconds for example?
tired haven
Now we can consider the following:
There are 3 bosses other than skeletron that teleport in pre-hm
- they have delay on teleport animation, so you really cannot mistake timing unless intentionally bad play
- they all teleport quite far from you (king slime teleports right on you, but you should move already so it misses 100%)
- and most importantly, they DON'T shoot at you when coming out of tp
void kelp
iirc mrrp wrote lore bc people kept asking for it
teal ibex
but yeah, if a buncha people take issue with audio cue im not gonna throw a fit over it, i just want more bosses that make you think ahead rather than see projectile, perform dodge -- it seems like a visual cue or at least consistent locations is ideal
discord pls stop dying on me
sand umbra
when discord spontaneously dies
anywho yeah the big thing is that there's no visual cue for Skeletron's teleport as far as where he'll be and he can be doing absolutely anything when teleporting
that's what I wanted to address
half basalt
well, i tested out skelly
also yeah rip discord
but uh
yeah, the exact bs i said would happen
fucking happenexd'
skelly tp'd RIGHT next to me while he was spinning, killing me.
so uh'
tiny rose
So it is somewhat random?
half basalt
something to add to Thomas' suggestion
having skelly tp is nice and all
but why the fuck is he allowed to teleport while he's spinning?
sand umbra
it is pretty much entirely random, the only constant is that you can tell when it will happen
not only can it happen regardless of what he's doing, he can teleport literally anywhere close-ish to you (pretty sure there's a minimum distance, but still) and he fires a small spread of projectiles on each teleport
half basalt
yeah, so if he's spinning
and just so happens to teleport right fuckin in front of ya
ya ded, son
3 projectiles plus a spinlock?
fuck no, you wont live through that
sand umbra
3 projectiles and a random teleport location on top of Skeletron being the king of stunlock since before it was cool to stunlock
yeah
tiny rose
At least his skull projectile is removed while he has his arms
sand umbra
correction: while both hands are alive, the skulls are ded
once one hand dies, the skulls start again
I am mildly certain this is also true of when he rezzes his hands, but I'd have to do further 
work to figure that out
tiny rose
What
8 - Skeletron Prime head in rev+ no longer fires homing skulls while the arms are alive. - Done
sand umbra
yes, OG Skeletron
tiny rose
I am dead serious what are you doing thomas
Oh okay
So wait can both skeletron and prime can teleport
sand umbra
no
tiny rose
Or is it just skeletron?
sand umbra
only Skeletron
tiny rose
Okay
sand umbra
I think I'd just quit the game outright if Prime could teleport
tiny rose
LOL
tired haven
Tbh he moves so fast at times he might as well teleport
tired haven
Almost every single vanilla one
I can say that ML wasn't tho
sand umbra
ML is the only boss that hasn't received his rework yet, yeah
half basalt
make the homing projectiles go fuck off
half basalt
give an idea of how
jovial spire
Yeah current ML is in no way redeemable
half basalt
what is exaclty bad with ml tho
tired haven
Easiest way to fix ML is to delete ML and just make cultist the final hm boss
queen delta
well i mean ML is badly designed but he definitely fits as final boss
cuz of how menacing he is
tired haven
3 eyes that desync with each other, one attack forces you to move away, another one punishes you for that, and third one catches most dodging strategies
tired haven
No
tired haven
Laser is punishment
Phantasmal eyes forces you to not stay under ml
Bolts just screw you sideways
queen delta
Yeah like i said, badly design
but it could be transformed to be a proper final boss
brazen bramble
there's actually a way to beat him between his arms, it requires a roof and some learning about his attack pattern
roof protects from death ray and raining eyes
guys, i'm thinking about suggesting a post-polterghast yoyo because it takes ages to beat DoG with a yoyo:
- made from reaper teeth
- maybe another material that's related? i don't know
the yoyo itself should have tiny spinning razors that resemble the reaper teeth
and i'm thinking it should have a bigger hitbox than usual
sand umbra
hollow shell
oh boy oh boy
'my arbitrary weapon choice isn't good for this situation, please fix'
sand umbra
alright I'm gonna be the fattest hypocrite in the world for saying this
but can we please stop with the subclass-specific suggs that have no bearing aside from "subclass please"
hollow shell
btw there are 3 post-Providence yoyos
brazen bramble
this is the thing that annoys me^
hollow shell
I think it'd be better to suggest one of them get some sort of buff or function change to make em more Viable for DoG
queen delta
there are? why not move one of them to bumblebirb tier or something?
hollow shell
One is dropped by Prov, one is Tarragon, one is Bloodstone
radiant meadow
if they're more viable for dog, they'll beat the living crap out of polter
brazen bramble
i think the terrarian is fine for providence tbh
radiant meadow
and that isn't going to fly
sand umbra
i think the terrarian is fine for providence tbh
hollow shell
Post-Providence, Chao
sand umbra
you've never used the weapon then
hollow shell
not Pre
sand umbra
and the Terrarian's not the focus
why suggest a subclass-specific item if it has no bearing past "subclass not viable. please fix"
brazen bramble
yaaaata suggested moving one to bumblebirb tier, that's why i said it
sand umbra
now, if it has bearing such as "a greater sense of variety/diversity in post-Polterghast weapons" or "because [insert class] isn't particularly powerful for [insert boss]"
I can get behind it
radiant meadow
if one of the three yoyos were moved, it'd need to be changed thematically
sand umbra
but subclass suggs solely for the purpose of subclass suggs are honestly starting to irk me
radiant meadow
at that point, you might as well just make it a new yoyo
queen delta
Solar flare could drop from guardians
I don't see any changes needed other than stats
radiant meadow
Guardians won't be getting any drops pretty sure
brazen bramble
they don't drop any weapon though
sand umbra
also Solar Flare is god for CV currently last I checked
radiant meadow
that doesn't mean they need to
sand umbra
it is the only one of the three post-Provi throws that seriously works with crowd control
something that is borderline necessary going into the Sentinels
brazen bramble
and even then, the yoyo class is so weak against storm weaver, really makes him a challenge (but i'm not here to suggest anything about that)
brazen bramble
yes
brazen bramble
it doesn't work well on storm weaver, he has tons of hp
sand umbra
so does everybody else post-ML, what's your point
brazen bramble
do you mean yoyo bag?
sand umbra
yes, I'm referring to omega crutch accessory
you need it for any yo-yo that late in the game to matter
unless it's Oblit, and even Oblit is mediocre at best without it
queen sail
You know if the point of the guardians is to exist for one second and then become completely irrelevant until terminus then you’re better off completely reworking them
Into something else
sand umbra
well I'm sorry but like
queen sail
Lore reasons be damned
sand umbra
Solar Flare already beats the shit out of CV's Dark Energies, if I recall
nocturne crow
That would also affect the fight with Providence.
queen sail
Like, you know what
brazen bramble
i'm thinking of either making a new post-polter yoyo, or moving one of the 3,
hollow shell
It'd be pretty nice if guardians were something
sand umbra
I mean yeah
queen sail
Make the guardians minibosses of hallow and hell
sand umbra
Guardians need to be
something
queen sail
Each can spawn individually
And they drop separate materials that craft into Profaned Core
sand umbra
sentinels knockoff
sand umbra
nocturne crow
You mean unique spawns?
queen sail
They spawn naturally occasionally
hollow shell
Not a terrible idea but we already have boss music and map icons for em
music being the big one
brazen bramble
^
queen sail
Yes because at the moment you could remove them and make Unholy Core’s method of obtainment different and nobody would care
They are literally three minibosses for one niche that gets filled out if you grind
sand umbra
you could also remove the Brimstone Elemental and make Charred Ore a general gen in Hell, with Crag enemies randomly spawning sometimes if Charred Ore is in the area
queen sail
Make them do something besides exist for 2 minutes
sand umbra
what's your point
hollow shell
Brim doesn't have anything to do with Charred Ore aside from being in the same biome
also Brim has drops
nocturne crow
I could see it. And the Profaned shard should no longer be a summoning consumable, rather than make it a material to make the Core.
sand umbra
you could remove the Crags and have Brimmy just be fightable in Hell in general and nobody would honestly care
hollow shell
Alternatively
Expand the crag so it's cool
hollow shell
Just like there is an alternative to demoting guardians
and that is
making them something
sand umbra
tl;dr
make profaned guardians actually something rather than a means to an end
nocturne crow
The Crag is just... Walk in. Farm Brimstone Elemental for Rose Stone... Leave and never return unless you need the crag itself.
sand umbra
"but Thomas! LC is a means to an end for ML!"
LC drops the Ancient fucking Manipulator--
quick ice
We could get a group of people to assemble a portfolio for the Brimstone Crag
hollow shell
We already make killing LC do stuff other than the events
quick ice
Suggesting a huge rework of the biome
sand umbra
meanwhile Donuts literally drop nothing aside from Profaned Core
and LC also unlocks Deuces now
hollow shell
yeah
sand umbra
so there's that
Donuts don't unlock anything new aside from dropping Provi's summoning item
quick ice
Lunatic unlocking deus is weird imo
hollow shell
btw crag rework is planned but not soon
sand umbra
and you can make a non-consumable version of said summon with Unholy Essence, therefore completely defeating the point of fighting the Guardians any more than once
quick ice
Is there any talk about what it’ll have
hollow shell
Man looking at this convo and last night's convo it makes you wonder why the devs can't just do everything at once and fix every problem
I mean c'mon just do everything
sand umbra
y'know
there's a fine line between "do everything at once!!!"
and "flesh out what you already have before adding new things so there's greater diversity and perhaps even replayability with the mod as a whole"
queen sail
Hey should i include the “Make them naturally spawning minibosses that drop parts of the profaned core” in my suggest as an example
sand umbra
that's the conclusion I always seem to come to
quick ice
I forget, what is this current update for?
hollow shell
Guardians need expanding
Crags needs expanding
Rogue needs expanding
more bosses need higher difficulty reworks
more weapons need to be reworked to be useful/interesting
vanilla weapons need to be rebalanced to be useful
sand umbra
current update adds all the boss AI reworks except ML and brought a balancing wave
queen sail
Rework the Profaned Guardians to do something different, or just anything, really.
Reason: These things exist for 2 fucking minutes. They only serve one purpose, which gets filled out if you grind Hallow or Hell for five more minutes or if you’re godawful at item management. The fact that their fight is an utter joke in comparison to the rest of the post-ML minibosses and the apparent plan to not even do anything for them does not help. For example, they could be to have each Guardian be their own respective naturally spawning miniboss in Hallow and Hell that drop pieces of the Profaned Core. I don’t really care what could be planned. Just make them do something.
quick ice
That’s good
brazen bramble
suggestion: move the lacerator yoyo to post-polterghast
why: there are currently 3 yoyos that can be obtained post-providence and i feel like they should spread a bit more
also making it post-polterghast will save the effort of making a new post-polterghast yoyo
how's this? needs some polishing of course
quick ice
But it needs to be more specific
queen sail
I don’t really want to try pushing into specifics tbh
brazen bramble
explain
sand umbra
the only reason I'd even end up moving it there is because of a general Bloodstone move
cyan lagoon
sand umbra
^
and even then, it'd need some additional functionality to be a worthwhile DoG-fighting investment
queen sail
@hollow shell anything I should change?
hollow shell
I was gonna say you should be less aggressive Kirb but honestly it's probably fine
brazen bramble
i mean, currently it seems like the most reasonable option
sand umbra
as right now it's as plain a true melee throw as it gets
quick ice
You should also provide some ideas for each guardian
queen sail
They exist for no reason other than one niche and they’re extremely bland
void kelp
hold up, how does lacerator out of all the yoyos count as true melee when all the yoyos are internally considered projectiles
sand umbra
using the term "true melee" loosely here
since no yo-yos are actually counted as such
when I say "true melee" in reference to a yo-yo, I'm mainly referring to the fact that it does not fire any additional projectiles
just the main yo-yo itself
void kelp
ahh
sand umbra
I know
hollow shell
and items which buff those specifically
hollow shell
Just say it doesn't have any effect beyond just hitting
sand umbra
the point is, Lacerator doesn't fire any projectiles beyond its base one
moving it post-Polter means it needs to have something to make it work as an option against DoG
brazen bramble
lacerator, solar flare, verdant
sand umbra
Lacerator's the best option for raw damage, Solar Flare's better for crowd control
queen sail
Is Verdant big meme
hollow shell
Yoyoers.
sand umbra
Verdant
exists
void kelp
hey btw, rover, suggestions being sent to the dev server are behind by abt a week; the last one that fits the criteria that hasn’t been sent was tuesday
sand umbra
also smh not using the term stringleader 
brazen bramble
but does it really catch up to DoG? (verdant)
sand umbra
verdant is just kinda there
hollow shell
Yeah things have been kinda slack in the deliveries recently
Deliverers busy with other shit
I'll do em or at least some of em right now
sand umbra
I never really saw it as anything spectacular, though I suppose it's not necessarily bad either
brazen bramble
i think that just a damage buff will do fine for lacerator honestly
sand umbra
it's just kinda there for the sake of being there
damage buff for Lacerator would make it bully Polter like no tomorrow iirc
brazen bramble
it's unique that it doesn't shoot anything
void kelp
👍👍 thanks my man
brazen bramble
yeah but i suggested it to be post-polter
brazen bramble
but at this point of the game it's the only 'normal' yoyo
sand umbra
post-Polter Lacerator would need to fire something or get a hefty damage buff to be viable for DoG
or have an alternative option for him (Abyss drop? I have plans for this, don't ask)
brazen bramble
but muh subclass suggestions
nocturne crow
^
queen sail
nocturne crow
Needs more drops
sand umbra
that's what I had in mind lmao
nocturne crow
Fling a yoyo called the Squid's Eye. Shoots out black ink at nearby foes, lol
hearty plaza
heck yeck
sand umbra
brazen bramble
well i suggested an abyss yoyo a few minutes ago and you threw that away
because subclass suggestions
devout seal
And specific item suggestions.
sand umbra
because I'm sick of seeing subclass suggestions that aren't actively supported by anything other than "muh subclass"
and I'm the subclass overhaul guy
nocturne crow
If anything, the eye of the squid would fit nicely.
The size of a dinner plate. lol
sand umbra
it's just
people give no reasoning for adding a new [insert niche subclass] weapon
aside from "muh subclass isn't viable for [insert boss], fix pls thnk"
I'm sick of it.
brazen bramble
then what's your reason for adding an abyss weapon?
hearty plaza
giving Squid more drops i think
sand umbra
Because it not only adds a greater sense of variety as post-Polter Abyss drops are terribly monotonous currently, it also gives Colossal Squids a greater reason to exist and grants melee a new viable option for the Devourer of Gods.
It's things like this that are why I've been actively pushing the question of what a new subclass weapon addition can practically offer, because from the dev team's perspective it's just not priority to expand upon these things just because.
Sure, I'm willing to do it and am actively working on it, but that doesn't mean the main Calamity devs really have the time to or have it on their priority list.
Especially given the upcoming rogue update AND Draedon looming in the near distance.
brazen bramble
wish i could suggest that reaper yoyo based on the reaper shark, but he already has a variety of weapons/weapon materials
nocturne crow
I mean, do think of it this way. There's 3 main enemies in the abyss with good weapons for each class. Eidolon Wyrm. Colossal Squid and the Reaper Shark. The devs may have plans for an item for the Colossal Squid already, that and the item suggestions are strictly Patreon donners only. Even then I think they're holding off on items because there's so many added weapons so far.
sand umbra
Reaper Sharks have enough. They've got three, count 'em, three weapons (Valediction/Reaper and DSD) and a semi-important late-game material.
The thing of it is, these things just aren't on the priority list at the moment.
It's as simple as that.
And I figure that if a practical reason for a subclass weapon addition can be provided, it has a higher chance of being sent and potentially accepted because there's incentive to add it.
So that, I suppose, is why I press the question.
void kelp
if Thomas, local subclass enthusiast says that he’s sick of “add subclass weapon because I want subclass weapon” we should take him super seriously
sand umbra
^
swift bison
^
void kelp
iirc if you want a sentry give Noah $50 to donate to calamity so he can add his bobbit worm idea
brazen bramble
well the squid's the only big enemy left with less than 3 weapons so...
nocturne crow
Even then, the devs need to work on all areas of development. Not just items and such. sure, they can add it to a list of ideas, but it's not gonna be prioritized over bugs and balancing issues with the current implementations.
brazen bramble
wait, eidolon wyrm has 2 weapons, what if i suggested an electric yoyo? that sounds like a cool concept
queen sail
Squid needs it more
brazen bramble
i wanna leave it for thomas
void kelp
ngl it sounds like a specific item you’re suggesting
sand umbra
^
specific item suggs got naenae'd a month or two ago
and #suggestions-voting has been wonderful to look through ever since
void kelp
thank terry for that
heck yeah
it’s wild since we’ve actually had a large uptick in sent and implemented suggestions
quick ice
I don’t see very many implemented suggestions
Just a bunch that have made it through to the team with no responses for them
nocturne crow
yet
void kelp
1 or 2 small things getting in is still better than nothing!
quick ice
true, but I'm more concerned as to why there are so many suggestions that haven't been turned down or confirmed yet
if they were turned down it'd be fine but right now, a lack of response for week old suggestions just seems like they aren't paying much attention to them, even if they have some support
nocturne crow
Keep in mind that they recently released an update. They have to be looking out for bugs and balance issues first for a bit. That and the suggestions have to hit 100 or more stars for that particular suggestion to be sent in to the Dev team to look at. Even then, prioritize bugs and balancing first, work with suggestions after.
hollow shell
Some suggestions are decent but don't garner explicit approval nor explicit rejection
Devs see it and say "ok"
void kelp
also wow the absence of merk even for a week really does make a big impact ;w;
hollow shell
True
quick ice
no it's not a huge deal or anything, just if the devs are reading through it idk why they can't give an indication that they did
opal barn
if it gets sent to the dev server, it's read
void kelp
the green check mark is the indication
quick ice
gotcha, I thought that the check just meant that it was sent
hollow shell
(It does)
If it's sent then it's very likely that a dev has seen it
I know Ozz goes through all of the sent suggestions
and a few others are relatively active about it too
but not all suggestions get commented on by devs
hollow shell
@grand badger By "sea urchin" are you referring to the Victide set bonus?
grand badger
Correct
hollow shell
Daedalus, Reaver, Ataxia, and Silva also have minions like that
and Pearl of Enthrallment I guess
zealous ridge
a lot of summon set bonuses work the exact same in calamity
by that i mean "extra minion that doesnt consume a slot"
hollow shell
Regardless
good suggestion
zealous ridge
which i personally dont think is the most interesting thing ever, but alternatives are hard to think of atm
but good suggestion, soulchunk
grand badger
Fair point. I have changed it to mark that the ”static” minions have only been counted for actual weapons
zealous ridge
actually, hot take...
turn the minions summoned by the set bonuses into actual staves 
grand badger
Although, the sea urchin is still very lacking. I remember the needles being very random and hardly useful. Can’t speak for the other ones however
zealous ridge
the other ones are pretty nice to have, but i always saw them as boring because they were basically just sun spirits with different projectiles or an already existing minion
although, it is relevant to note that, specially with the post ml sets, its not the ONLY set bonus effect those armors get
zealous ridge
okay so, quick suggestion question
how would people feel about making the crafting recipes more interesting post-DoG?
i feel like a lot of weapons in that tier are just "cosmilite phantoplasm BAM new weapon" without any interesting requirements
i was thinking, for instance, adding nightmare fuel to mourningstar's recipe, and endothermic energy to the minigun's recipe (they're just examples)
i know its a small thing, but it would be nice to see in my opinion
hollow shell
I do agree very much so
It's something I've noticed for a long time
You don't even need to be restricted to Post-DoG materials as long as it's crafted at a Draedon's Forge
(although it'd be less confusing if the materials were indeed post-DoG)
i.e. Devil's Devastation could use Ruinous Souls instead of Cosmilite, Primordial Ancient could use Divine Geodes, and imo Divine Geodes for Mourningstar as well
zealous ridge
draedons forge was added around the time DoG got his third (?) sprite, that one being the sprite featured in DM doks first MV on DoG
i think
might be earlier
hollow shell
Ah
I only started playing Calamity when DoG had that sprite
so I wouldn't know anything about the mod beforehand
queen sail
Draedon’s forge back then had perennial palette fyi
hollow shell
mhm