i dunno
#suggestions-discussion
civic pond
zealous ridge
it has that "double vison" theme kind of
sand umbra
that is clever and I love it
civic pond
just give it permanent creature detection and call it a day
sand umbra
would help for grinding too which is kind of Calamity's main focus past boss-fighting
grinding and bossfighting
the two big selling points of Calamity 
...oh and also two new difficulties I guess lole
except one isn't really much of a difficulty, moreso just more stats, more faster projectiles, and more ludicrousness that isn't actually ludicrous at all
is this a reference to something? fuck if I'm gonna tell you, you can find that out on your own
queen delta
the drat suggestion got to 149 stars already 
sand umbra
Anywho I'm getting off-topic.
Personally I can see either doubling common drops or perma-Binoculars being much more practical and useful effects for Twins lore than just invisible hahaauoes
zealous ridge
i mean honestly good... i never liked how drat punished you so severely but i liked its idea
sand umbra
the issue isn't that Drat punishes you so harshly
the issue is that Drat is too garbage otherwise for it to be justified
smoky wagon
Isnt the backfire thing what the person who earned the weapon wanted it to have
or did the devs add it
sand umbra
I'm pretty sure it is
zealous ridge
yeah i think they wanted it to have a backfire effect
sand umbra
but the point is that Drat needs a serious damage buff for its backfire to be justified
queen delta
Syg agreed with this suggestion lmao
zealous ridge
and yes, i did not mean to migitate the point that it was totally sucky dps wise currently
sand umbra
I'm just hoping something comes of it.
swift bison
make drat's right click attack slightly worse then gale i'd say, then make it's left click at full power be WAY better
smoky wagon
at this point only exo weapons that need buffs are photo and drat
swift bison
drat isnt exo
smoky wagon
exo tier
sand umbra
Drat is exo-but-also-not-exo
swift bison
ah
zealous ridge
drat is exo tier, but it isnt an exo weapon
sand umbra
no
zealous ridge
i think dragon pow is exo tier
sand umbra
dragon pow is exo
smoky wagon
Didnt they buff that already
zealous ridge
yeah
smoky wagon
i heard people saying it was good and bad
sand umbra
DP already got a fat buff, too
smoky wagon
i have no clue
smoky wagon
Photoviscerator from experience is worse than chicken cannon for hearts and gale for Scal
swift bison
Unpopular opinion from #calamity-mod-talk : Dragon pow should be made yharon phase 2 tier, and be the main crafting material for an actual exo flail with the actual exo theme
zealous ridge
how would one go about buffing photo? just massive buff its damage or make it more interesting?
sleek wadi
Flamethrowers in general could be more interesting
sand umbra
Photoviscerator gets bad DPS iirc
sleek wadi
There have been numerous suggestions for a gel expansion, so I'm pretty sure flamethrowers in general are simply low on the list
swift bison
make photo inflict an "exo flame" debuff for a very short time that SCal isnt immune to, this debuff would do something around 5k dps and reduce defense by 50 and DR by 20
it's inflicted for a very short time because so that you cant abuse the defense and dr reduction to megacheese SCal with other weapons
sand umbra
okay but like no
zealous ridge
more flames debuffs! yayayaya
sand umbra
how about, instead of adding more fucking one-time debuffs
sleek wadi
How about making flames debuffs actually usable
sand umbra
we instead just actually make bosses vulnerable to debuffs
as has been suggested already and sent to the dev server
lost agate
Then be patient 
zealous ridge
queen delta
no dont fill up darksun tier with melee weapons, my weapon still needs to shine there
sand umbra
i'm trying to be patient, tell it to the man trying to make photo of all things inflict a unique debuff when SCal is currently immune to everything anyway
sleek wadi
Everything could stand to have a debuff that actually fucking works on whatever you'd want to use the weapon on
sand umbra
okay
so why don't we all WAIT
and see what happens to debuff immunities in the near future
instead of trying to just push more and more one-trick-pony debuffs that will get completely obsoleted by power scaling and immunities ANYWAY as they are right now
sleek wadi
Currently any other problems I got are ones that are there by design such as DoG being a bullet sponge, or are ones that I can't submit like a true melee weapon that can reach Scal and her brothers
brazen bramble
I got an idea for the twins lore - make it function like the spelunker glowstick but on enemies/traps instead
lost agate
thomas calm down jesus christ
sleek wadi
Passive hunter pot? Sounds neat
brazen bramble
Passive weaker hunter/dangersense potion basically, yeah
lost agate
yes i saw
sleek wadi
No you're getting appropriately heated, after all the topic is about fire :^)
sand umbra
.
boo. o3o
hollow saffron
zealous ridge
hmmmm i was thinking about photo rework... how does this sound?
alongside the flames, the photoviserator's stream is writhing with exo-vines that lash out at nearby enemies. exo vines ignore Iframes and work similarly to the mind melter of the thorium mod
i think it fits with the theme of the weapon, and it would give the weapon some extra range and additional potential for heavy piercing damage/single target damage
zealous ridge
oh i mean like the vines would reach past the flamethrower's range
not nessecarily a flat range increase to the flame stream
hollow saffron
also i would suggest you edit your messag-oh too late
hi can your reason be less personal and more relatable to persons other than yourself kthxbye
hexed ore
Sorry
hollow saffron
also specific crafting recipe smh
zenith hazel
keep those suggestions together please, don’t type separately
proven tide
vruh just set up an ice farm 
zenith hazel
edit your original suggestion
proven tide
or stone if you gae
proven tide
^
hollow saffron
and with mine i have stone that i can clenteminate as well as ice
proven tide
just don't hit the fucking jungle tiles 
proven tide
did that once with the hallowed solution
hollow saffron
and a bit of lava
proven tide
made me wanna game end
hollow saffron
OOF
sand umbra
what in the hell did i walk in on
proven tide
afk farm basics
sand umbra
no i mean
what sugma did i miss
hollow saffron
easy 1 platinum a minute
zenith hazel
mimic drops being craftable
hollow saffron
lag moment
hollow saffron
sand umbra
why do Mimics drop several necessary equips again
sand umbra
it's dumb as hell
zenith hazel
you can just set up an underground farm and zerg away I guess
proven tide
it's not a matter of calamity dev, is the thing; it's due to vanilla
hi welcome to the point
sand umbra
fair enough
zenith hazel
it’s just that calamity encourages you to get those drops because those turn into powerful accessories
sand umbra
and they all drop from this one specific enemy
proven tide
vanilla introduces these two accs as part of the mimic drop pools (each mimic having a couple of gimic geddit drops) and each of them happens to be of notable use
sand umbra
that only drops one item at a time
and is also fairly rare compared to other farming enemies
proven tide
calamity takes them and runs with their mechanics, improving them and helping them synergise where they can; this on the way makes them more valuable
however, that backfires into making a vanilla-sourced drop further outside usual grind balance
sand umbra
^
committing the mass systematic genocide of fake chests shouldn't need to be a player's first major course of action on entering Hardmode
i say as not 5 changelogs after the image above i allow Mimics to drop Hardmode ore bars
proven tide
while the drops are shitty and broken this is due to them being vanilla items determined by vanilla "hey, look, this world has random items in odd places, there's so much to explore!" balance rather than calamity's meta-heavy fair-staging balance
the bee beeing a mimic drop is due to star cloak memes and it being the closest enemy one can get it to drop from lmao fuck you like the ichor spear/spear of destiny situation with the ichor stickers
WHICH, MIGHT I ADD, IS FUCKIN BULLSHIT
proven tide
1200+ KILLS WITH NO ICHOR SPEAR WHEN 919 IS A 99% CHANCE OF DROP
AAA
er, bee is pissweak
gottem
zenith hazel
let’s nerf the bee then 
hollow saffron
bloom stone bad
proven tide
hote bad 
sand umbra
proven tide
memes aside, are we looking for bee balance or mimic balance
hollow saffron
yes
frosty kindle
make Bee instakill the player if it detects a SD is being held
sand umbra
hollow saffron
whats an SD
hollow saffron
ah
sand umbra
shit i gotta do that now
for good
proven tide
can't believe rogue stealth was completely fucking reworked to one-hit-removes-it-all and scarlet bee was nerfed to 110% only
and still people proclaim it as The Meta™
frosty kindle
Thomas 'bout to end Phup's whole career
vocal grotto
Nanoblack
proven tide
When Norf is so slow that Norbee has equal DPS to an Unreal Norf
vocal grotto
proven tide
frosty kindle
meanwhile buff Gale to make it have higher DPS than AoTC :melee: kthx
proven tide
maybe up the damage cap again and/or have usetime/useanim shit be more useful in the damage calc but keep scarlet bee at 110
sand umbra
proven tide
hmm
tl;dr my thoughts on bee balance is that it should have wider range but slower damage scaling
and fuck scarlet devil 
frosty kindle
byeah
sand umbra
somehow, The Bee boosts Scarlet Devil's damage beyond comprehension
and it doesn't help that the weapon has absurdly high base damage to begin with
now add in an Auric rogue set and full cannon gear
frosty kindle
make bee be useful at health lower than 100% HP albeit less boost but still kill player if SD is used
frosty kindle
mage
proven tide
i have no fucking clue
sand umbra
yes.
proven tide
one of the main selling points of the bee is the norbee memes but norf is so fucking slow it's literally better to have unreal (equal dps but higher firerate means better hit odds)
so boost its damage range but reduce its scaling-per-use-time rate
sand umbra
seriously
Scarlet Devil with a full Auric rogue set alone does fucking work
add in the Bee and there's a very noticeable damage difference to the point where you're one- to three-shotting most BR opponents up to Siren and Levi
h
proven tide
alternately pull an inverse scarlet bee
and boost its damage cap to 150% or more with norf
frosty kindle
oh right, because it gives bigger boosts to slow weps, afaik?
sand umbra
The Bee gives fat boosts to slow weapons, ye
frosty kindle
ah no wonder why
sand umbra
SD is extremely slow/snail according to wiki
proven tide
but norf is so fucking slow its powerful + bee boost equals the firerate + damage increases of unreal norf
frosty kindle
snail attack speed, insane kill time
dusty stirrup
;)
frosty kindle
why must you do this phup
one weapon aaand the meta is now Rogue
dusty stirrup
More like a synergy
proven tide
hey remember when i did 16.8M damage in one ripperless hit to death br provi with scarlet bee
sd gae
frosty kindle
a good synergy, a work of art.... but a bit easy to abuse imo
proven tide
a bit beein out here like
dusty stirrup
It's just that they happened to be released at the same time and didn't get tested with each other when released much tbh
proven tide
can we make norbee unstoppable yet
sand umbra
yes
civic pond
not anymore
sand umbra
that may or may not be why I've never played Ranger outside of my very first Rev playthrough, and a LOT of shit's already changed since then
proven tide
remember when ranger's reputation will never recover from fab's ♿ memes despite constantly falling further behind
frosty kindle
I should probably make a :rogue: emote with the dude on the wheelchair holding SD, wearing the Bee cape and also got that fancy hat thing that Remilia wears
swift bison
that already exists
sand umbra
frosty kindle
yes but i must include bee
civic pond
sand umbra
i didn't make this and ideally it'd also have bee but /shrug
tired haven
We need more wheelchairs
civic pond
I'll add bee later
frosty kindle
brb launching photoshop
lost agate
this chat is a mood sometimes
civic pond
i already made the other 3 oh fuck
swift bison
we need a wheelchair for every class
dusty stirrup
SD on its own isn't that broken smh 😔
sand umbra
hi shucks
welcome to
whatever this is
tired haven
Too bad mage doesn't have any
sand umbra
ah yes
frosty kindle
exactly why i need to add Bee to that emote, phup
dusty stirrup
Indeed
civic pond
dusty stirrup
Also remi hat
sand umbra
tired haven
Summoner be like "hold my hive pod"
civic pond
and here i thought i'd be smited for making these
dusty stirrup
You still will
proven tide
honestly this chat is superior to the other chats because its unlike the unenlightened masses and their bad meme floods, this place's userbase is limited to the people who are invested and contextually aware enough to flood with high iq bad memes
frosty kindle
i remember when i started all of this by creating :ranger:
civic pond
oh well 
sand umbra
is still the superior wheelchair
civic pond
indeed
sand umbra
the OG wheelchair
frosty kindle
At your service.
civic pond
i didn't make one for summoner because its just
tired haven
is yes
swift bison
even tho ranger isn't wheelchair at all
sand umbra
hue
proven tide
no
dusty stirrup
Welcome to calamity scaling
proven tide
mage bee please 
tired haven
On another episode of Calamity "Base damage means something?"
proven tide
why is mage addicted to high firerate and why is shpc dogshit
tired haven
what
sand umbra
calamity is a lesson in why base damage and use time alone do not mean shit
civic pond
Instantly the most powerful because its a touhou reference
dusty stirrup
proven tide
can we have summoner bee synergy 
civic pond
Also yeah its hard for me to think of a mage weapon that doesn't have high firerate
sand umbra
how the fuck would you even make a synergy for summoner with bee
civic pond
obviously there are
sand umbra
civic pond
but lasers
tired haven
"The Bee now turns hornets from Hornet Staff into Queen Bees"
lost agate
remind me why we are talking about wheelchairs and bee?
civic pond
yes
sand umbra
this is suggs discussion
frosty kindle
haha im a bad mod i forgot to redirect everyone
sand umbra
have we seriously been here for the past twenty minutes
uhhh
civic pond
"nerf scarlet bee"
proven tide
we're memeing about bee in a vague amble regarding trying to find some way in which bee can be rebalanced
tired haven
lost agate
well memeing is also a no go
frosty kindle
anyways since there's an active convo in calam talk we can take it to #general-talk
proven tide
so far we seem to have addressed base damage, ut scaling, mage uselessness, and uh
proven tide
please just get rid of melee
sand umbra
wheee
civic pond
no
half basalt
i'll move it to general.
proven tide
or you'll read chat history regarding mage @half basalt ty
half basalt
which chat?
@proven tide um, i typed in "mage" in search, and all i see are good things about it
lost agate
then again, everyone complains about each class so go figure
civic pond
half basalt
what, the screenshots of the use time and base damage?
half basalt
thunderstorm, plasma rifle
those were 2 messages
and the first one doesnt exactly look very serious
and how is high firerate bad?
half basalt
..bee
lost agate
Ah yes lets add slow weapon to a class just because bee
proven tide
yes.
civic pond
charged laser cannon
hollow saffron
charged rogue bee summoner weapon that uses arrows and is affected by the elemental gauntlet
half basalt
...wdym "bee"
hollow saffron
yes
half basalt
do you mean the rare accessory?
hollow saffron
no
half basalt
do you mean the theme of bees?
hollow saffron
yes
half basalt
...i really don't see how that's a valid complaint
you know what i did find though?
The Bee - Calamity Mod Wiki
"Weapons with a slower use speed and higher base damage get a greater boost."
there, that's a reason why you'd want a low fire rate, high base damage mage weapon
(if i had known that was how it worked, i would have used it with thunderstorm, plasma rifle or aether's whisper. Damn.)
lost agate
does it have to
proven tide
to have a supposedly-omniclass early-hm acc that heavily encourages use with only two out of the five classes (and only at endgame tier) is pretty bad
half basalt
well, how is that a mage problem then?
lost agate
its pretty bad
the thing is literally giving me a pain in the ass every time a sinergy is mentioned
tired haven
Just like not every class uses luxor's gift, not every class has to use bee
half basalt
^
proven tide
but it'd be nice if every class could use bee without shooting themselves in the foot
half basalt
...how would that shoot them in the foot?
proven tide
it has legendary rep with a handful of weapons and is absolutely useless everywhere else
half basalt
at most, it's a wasted accessory slot
proven tide
exactly
half basalt
it still can give you a slight damage boost
tired haven
I understand that balanced design is tempting, but it usually turns out boring
Not every single item should follow the "every class is identically strong" headline
proven tide
that acc singlehandedly made the endgame meta rogue-only with melee in second, as always, because melee
tired haven
I personally think the bee is just bad accessory, which happens to situationally work with 2 weapons in endgame
lost agate
pretty sure nanoblack is good on its own merit
half basalt
there are still some good mage weapons in the endgame
lost agate
some are getting buffed
half basalt
admittedly, it isnt as good as other endgame weapons, but the point is, it's not just "rogue only"
civic pond
soul piercer aaoieufhaw3u
swift bison
Voidragon is as good as illu knoves if properly aimed and using the right bullets
dusty stirrup
How the bee works is interesting, but that's as far as it goes for me, cause functionally it's pretty ech
void kelp
maybe it needs a buff to the damage boost?
dusty stirrup
That wouldn't really fix it, just make more like other damage boost accs, AND make the ones it already boosts to oblivion even stronger
The wep, as it stands, only really boosts very slow very high damage weps
which are pretty niche
dusty stirrup
It'd need to have its current functions changed tbh
tired haven
I feel like the damage boost, instead of exponentially higher with lower speed, should be logarithmically higher
sand umbra
^
void kelp
oh goodness, logarithmic scaling would be terrifying
sand umbra
or just
a different scale factor in general
frosty kindle
Diminishing returns are always a nice "But here's the catch"
void kelp
sad sounds @ DR
tired haven
I mean, there are examples of simple logarithm formulas
frosty kindle
But painful to code, I'd assume
queen delta
I've been looking back on all my previous suggestions and I noticed several were implemented but has no flag
frosty kindle
at least the more complex logarithmic code bits
half basalt
the bee seems a lot more like a weapon for snipers
ok, why do i always kill the chat?
void kelp
- you’re not killing the chat
- this isn’t a face-to-face convo, so things aren’t always happening instantaneously
half basalt
yeah, but people were talking quite a bit before i said something again
i mean, i dont actually think i'm the sole reason for the chat stopping, i was just joking. Probably just coincidence.
void kelp
indeed is
I actually haven’t used the Bee since the effects sounded super underwhelming th
**tbh
compounded by the difficulty in reliably getting mimics to spawn without getting swarmed by literally everything else
dusty stirrup
The bee is only a really good acc for sniper type weps yeah
zenith hazel
please don’t post random messages in suggestions @half basalt
half basalt
yeah, my bad :P
zealous ridge
what are you confused about specifically?
queen delta
Better now?
I'm very tired from a bad cold so my mind's not perfectly thinking straight rn
void kelp
maybe “the bars should move more smoothly”
zenith hazel
so a smoother animation?
zealous ridge
"bars should drain and fill more smoothly"?
civic pond
yeah because atm they run out in chunks
queen delta
ok after like 4 edits i think its good now
half basalt
would also be pretty neat if there were particles that came from it while it moved smoothly
civic pond
lag
queen delta
Already been suggested so ill not touch that
signal prairie
I might sprite a smooth animation, not sure yet
void kelp
oh give it a go, my dude
half basalt
@civic pond there's an option that removes particles
civic pond
ok
radiant meadow
the animation is done in code afaik
so there's little point in spriting a smooth animation
hollow shell
It is indeed code
zealous ridge
mm i see
signal prairie
I'd do it to see what a smooth one would look like regardless
radiant meadow
that's why that was patched
karmic stone
Make the Drunk Princess try to share a "cheer" like the Tavernkeep when near
A minor addition for a more lively town, if it's possible, probably make it so the drinks used for the cheer are varied
This will prolly hit rock bottom on the priority list if it gets sent but 
Thoughts?
radiant meadow
doesn't drunk princess talk garbage about the tavernkeep?
karmic stone
If i don't like someone and that someone breathes oxygen it doesn't mean i will stop doing the same thing just for the sake of messing with them
Probably
void kelp
yeah she does
brittle merlin
I’m pretty sure someone suggested something similar to this before
Also terraria multiplayer :ech:
tired haven
Multiplayer by definition won't have challenging bossfights as long as respawns exist
signal prairie
^
radiant meadow
your feelings are right, she was not designed for multiplayer
karmic stone
Clam makes it so that MP boss health scaling is not as crazy as vanilla btw
zenith hazel
tbf nothing is designed for multiplayer
queen delta
thorium is designed for multiplayer 
void kelp
nothing but thorium is designed for multiplayer
frosty kindle
multiplayer also has extreme inconsistency issues, alongside desyncs
grizzled matrix
You can despawn the moons along with the brothers in mp like bruh
You can also spawn multiple scals
tired haven
My favorite part of multiplayer is time desyncs so all invasions like solar eclipse are perma-broken
grizzled matrix
Using cosmolight breaks the space-time continuum itself and causes bosses to mass warp
Very epic
thin shale
Multiplayer SCal is rather confusing to say the least since she will randomly lock on players. And the Brimstone Monsters will chase after only one player.
tired haven
DoG is worse, since laser walls still spawn on a single player, so if you are a bit too far from each other you'd get instahit by lasers
thin shale
I can relate to that
void kelp
iirc the bullet hells in the scal fight are centered around 1 player as well
thin shale
Not to mention SCal’s bullet hells could do the same if two players were too far away from each other
So it would be recommended if the players stay close to each other
proven tide
forgotten dragon egg, dragon egg, and dragon egg
not confusing
don't forget that akato, son of yharon, is not a son of yharon
lost agate
Because its a patreon item.
Btw @proven tide i couldnt help but notice the passive-agressive tone on some of your messages, like in your self star comments (which btw dont help with the conversation at all), it has been offputting for several people here so im gonna tell you to stop
proven tide
oh, alright then
hollow saffron
Disable the Holy Flames immunity of the Asgard's Valor, and move it to the Elysian Aegis
Reason: The Elysian Aegis is directly dropped by Providence, and it does not have immunity to holy flames, despite directly being dropped by a boss related to the fire. Asgard's Valor also has nothing in its crafting recipe related to holy flames, so it doesn't make as much sense that it gives you immunity to it.
opal barn
Solid 7/10 suggestion
hollow saffron
oof
opal barn
that's a good thing
zenith hazel
I like it, it makes sense
hollow saffron
ok, posted
opal barn
I guess it's because you usually use it against provi
distant gyro
old valor sprite was also bright yellow so maybe
zealous ridge
well, technically Asgard’s does have the cores which could each represent the extra debuffs (brimstone flame, holy fire, glacial state)
but the point still stands I think it’s a good suggestion
hollow saffron
it also has abbadon(brimmy drop) and the ornate shield is made of cryonic bars
zealous ridge
ornate is abit more of a stretch but I see your point
hollow saffron
i also think ornate should give glacial state immunity
or that thr soul of cryogen is used in the valor
distant gyro
pretty sure soc isn't used it valor
hollow saffron
shield of cthulhu?
hollow saffron
it isnt used in valor
distant gyro
ye
hollow saffron
but at the very least giving ornate glacial state immunity or a dash that freezes enemies could be good
hollow saffron
living god fire block
distant gyro
funnily enough I just realize that ornate shield is just 6 defense and nothing else
hollow saffron
indeed
hollow saffron
living brimstone fire block
zealous ridge
I would like to see a redo to some of the bar-crafted accessories honestly
Ornate is super boring and kind of useless as is, necklace of vexation is also seldom used besides as a crafting mat, and badge of bravery is just kind of a slightly better feral claws
zealous ridge
hollow saffron
like for real, if you actually do use them as a standalone accessory and not as one of their upgrades then @ me
opal barn
A lot of the accessories you mentioned just have 1 specific use and other than that are just crafting materials
hollow saffron
they need s bit more usefulness
ornate shield could give gstate immunity and add a freezing affect to your dashes
zealous ridge
yeah... and there isn’t anything inherently bad about that either, but I would like it if there were some more unique effects...
hollow saffron
badge of bravery could poison enemies/add leaf projectiles to all true melee strikes
vexation necklace could increase defense/DR when above 50% health and increase dmg when below 50% health
opal barn
It would be good if they were a bit more useful
sand umbra
You'd think accessories crafted so late into the game would have a bit more functionality, tbf.
zealous ridge
but they mostly function as crafting mats lol
hollow saffron
^
sand umbra
Yet you only really get 1 boost out of individual "material accessories", which causes even their mega-combo accessories to leave something to be desired.
hollow saffron
~~hi ive already reached my daily limit of 2 suggestions can someone please suggest upgrades to the bar accessories and give me credit pls ~~
proven tide
Honestly it's interesting how Calamity opts for a more rounded and meta-heavy balance style but due to kind of following a similar (if significantly more organised) implementation route of there needs to be an item there, and there, and uh... let's make an acc for that tier it tends to fall into the same ruts of content over balance
proven tide
Each implementation does get around to being reworked to maintain across-the-board viability at most tiers (sometimes 18 months later) but, tell me, when did you last use Shield of the Ocean unironically?
hollow saffron
also i find it to be weird that the ataxia armor sub50% boost isnt affected by lifeforce potions
sand umbra
or any Asgard's Valor mat that isn't Ankh Shield in the first place
zealous ridge
I had an idea a while ago when it was still a chaotic bar craft that the chaos amulet could give you extra mana, and while using those mana stars you got a damage boost... and that would transfer into the sigil and talisman
sand umbra
Okay, Abaddon...has its uses.
proven tide
Drawing an example from what I was vaguely and irritatedly getting at earlier, the Bee
sand umbra
But the other two are downright inconsequential on their own.
proven tide
It has a place in the meta, but its place is not where it's placed
and although much of vanilla terraria is looked at with a critical eye for inconsistent balance or off-meta insanity, calamity mirrors (not copies, but kinda inverts) many of the same issues
trying veeery hard not to mention the memebow
zealous ridge
It’s certainly inspired by some of vanillas less intuitive mechanics
in my opinion at least
proven tide
star cannon: placed too early and used too long
the bee: placed too early and only used too late
sand umbra
The Bee actually mirrors/inverts the Star Cannon's case to a T.
proven tide
case in point
sand umbra
Tell me, when was the last time you saw someone unironically use The Bee at the point it's obtainable?
...or anywhere pre-ML, for that matter.
proven tide
and ornate shield is just one example of calamity's round out this tier because this tier needs rounding, which can boil down to add here to match other tiers vs. vanilla's add here to match similar random additions
it's more organised but honestly some calamity items feel just as gratuitously placed as many vanilla ones
items that just exist for their own sakes without actually adding that much
looking at you, Code 2 Yo-Yo
proven tide
Yeah, Verstaltite needs an acc
... but is the ornate shield the best we're gonna get?
dense vapor
if you ever feel like something kind of just exists to exist in terraria
install fargo's
proven tide
please no
dense vapor
why else would you make pearlwood gear lmfao
tired haven
Pretty sure crispy honey blocks continue to exist to exist
proven tide
To be fair they exist for logical and mechanical consistency
rather than content padding
dense vapor
crispy honey blocks are objectively the best honey block
proven tide
^
dense vapor
vanilla skyblock
only liquid block that doesn't suck that you can break with low tier pickaxe
I think it's an ingredient in one potion too
fishing potion iirc
which makes it a great potion
tired haven
fishing potions are taboo yeah right, nvm me then
dense vapor
sinful behaviour
3... no 2 messages from crabbar and he's already lost hero status in my eyes 😤
tired haven
If you think fishing is cool, it's not my problem 
proven tide
imagine using blood orbs to crutch your lack of interest in the most wholesome and lovely vanilla mechanic
sand umbra
Ideas I have that'll probably reach Entropy's Edge:
- Shield of the Ocean grants small boosts underwater to bring it more in line with its RIV
- Ornate Shield grants 3 orbiting crystal shards over time that block nearby bullets and break after 5 hits, requiring a 5 second timer to regen
- Regenator halves HP, but grants you massively increased regen for each crystal existing
- Badge of Bravery very briefly increases melee speed or melee damage when struck
- Necklace of Vexation's boost raises higher the lower your HP is
proven tide
yeah, i mean alchemy, not fis— oh alright we're doing this now
sand umbra
yes? yesn't?
dense vapor
Potion crafting is truly the magnum opus of re-logic's game design
proven tide
^ this
ruby cobalt
rugged mist
Honestly 
proven tide
raises higher the lower your hp is
Alright, I'm not going to lie, I'm already kind of tired of hp/status-conditional boosts
be they damage or summon slot or dr or similar
sand umbra
b-but that's the NoV's existing effect changed a little ;u;
i don't know what else to do with it without rebranding it entirely
rugged mist
Yeah terraria health in general isn't designed to have conditional things associated with it
proven tide
from the bee (bee 2: electric beegaloo) to the frozen tortoise shell to auric tesla space helm (man fuck that tbh)
it's just
so nasty to deal with sometimes
rugged mist
Especially things based on low health
sand umbra
dense vapor
adapts to your playstyle/ lack of skill
lost agate
Btw if the some accesories being not that good bothers you theres a big chat called #suggestions-voting
tired haven
Also take more damage to do more damage 
proven tide
yeah, thankfully, we're discussing the mechanics ahead of forming them into suggestions off the bat unlike too many people
sand umbra
and there's a chat that we discuss suggestions in beforehand called #suggestions-discussion iirc
rugged mist
Bro what there is? How long has that channel been there? 
lost agate
Half of the time things get discussed here, theres no suggestion coming out of that
So go figure
dense vapor
Wind blade feels half finished rip, maybe you really really aren't meant to use it indoors but no feedback effects
proven tide
wait are we talking about wind blade now
sand umbra
so is it bad to post in #suggestions-voting first or is it bad to post in #suggestions-discussion first
i'm really startin' to get mixed messages
void kelp
hey sometime the suggestions discussed are confirmed to not be needed which is great since it means less clog in #suggestions-voting
void kelp
it’s better to post here first IMO since you can refine it
lost agate
My point is
dense vapor
yeah I noticed the wind blade projectiles dont have any collision effects
void kelp
that’s a good suggestion
dense vapor
they just instantly vanish the moment they come into contact with anything
proven tide
'if we ever want something to be done about it, we can go request it ourselves rather than grouching'?
dense vapor
starfury stars have sparkles on impact for example
void kelp
like, you’d want it to explode into like a few particles or something ?
dense vapor
eah
proven tide
or a soft swush whenever they hit a tile
rugged mist
yeah that'd make sense
dense vapor
something to indicate that the cyclone is dying
proven tide
hell, both works
lost agate
Theres pretty borderline agressive discussions here that are continued with the excuse of "there may be a suggestion out of this" but it just.... Doesnt happen
rugged mist
it's kind of awkward to have a projectile just vanish entirely with no effect or indicator
dense vapor
yep
lost agate
Kinda bothered me how heated up this place gets sometimes
sand umbra
wall: *exists*
windblade tornado: swush
dense vapor
and because the hitbox is so large
you can be grappled to a wall
face the other direction
and if you swing you dont even see the cyclones
sand umbra
I feel like I'm part of the reason for that and I apologize on that front, I get way too heated about this chat sometimes--
void kelp
the swush type effect where it’d be a small wind would be neat
dense vapor
it feels like the sword isn't working
zealous ridge
so you mean it’s not inherently bad that there’s discussion in here, it’s just that it gets a bit aggressive sometimes
?
tired haven
You mean like "
))) " small wind thingo?
lost agate
Point is, if theres something balance wise that bothers you suggest it, its not like discussing it here with a heated manner will make a solution appear from the air
void kelp
oh that should be pinned
lost agate
Also pretty sure half of the projectiles just die the moment they get shot in several situations
And perhaps yes
sand umbra
kinda like old Flame Scythe
dense vapor
the real unbalanced thing is the wing blade cyclones vanishing into endless void's dimension along with Muhammad avdol
sand umbra
which had the same issue for the longest time iirc
void kelp
IMO adding some sort of effect should be good
lost agate
You have to make all your projectiles not collide with tiles for 1 or 2 frames so they dont die on slopes
dense vapor
what spideyboi said
proven tide
rip thomas's accessories discussion
rugged mist
Well it's not that they disappear that's the problem, it's just that there's no clear indicator that that's happening
lost agate
dense vapor
yep
proven tide
if only we could have started finalising rebalances
lost agate
Why not
dense vapor
because it feels half finished and completely out of place with every other sword projectile that hits walls
lost agate
Also, i could try giving wind blade an effect when i get home
hearty yew
@dense vapor quite the opposite, actually an enormous amount of projectiles don't collide with tiles or destroy themselves.
dense vapor
I meant specifically among the ones that do
but yeah
I did kinda try to specify, sorry for not being clear
hearty yew
what I'm saying is that wind blade is the tip of the iceberg here
proven tide
their gimmick is great but they rely so heavily on it that they fall short where most gimmicks go to die and the meta lies:
bosses
dense vapor
idk im only using the wind blade rn so i only have one care in life
lost agate
Well then guess we need to add like 2-3 lines to a some weapons
proven tide
wind blade does have alright dps to be fair but it's not remotely its selling point
hearty yew
calamity is a boss focused mod with a ton of unnecessary sets of rare/meme items
that's the best way I can describe it on the whole
dense vapor
so much aerilite ore everywhere in a calamity world rip
lost agate
The issue of projectiles dying the moment they get shot arises because projectiles comes from inside the player
And because slopes and such are wack
lost agate
If you look closely you can see all swords have their projectiles come from your chest rather than the sword
Terra blade projectile is kinda small
proven tide
terra blade is also just the Projectile Meme sword
hearty yew
it's actually pretty easy to fix this
proven tide
there is no logic to that thing
hearty yew
the whole sword beams coming from your chest
it's just that surprise that's how ALL projectiles work
lost agate
Yup
proven tide
except new spear projectiles iirc?
hearty yew
Spear projectiles spawn from your chest but in their init code they move to the correct starting position
proven tide
that's fucky
proven tide
time to commit do that with exoblade meme swing speed and sword tips
dense vapor
he was so upset that there was no exo magic gun 😦
proven tide
er
dense vapor
he got all the way to the end of the game
proven tide
well, the wind blade disc seems to have dropped off
dense vapor
cyclone
lost agate
Point is, wind blade collision and effects could be fixed in like 30 minutes max
dense vapor
thats what i assume the suggestions channel is meant for
rugged mist
Yeah prob best to move on to a different discussion, not much more to be said on the matter
lost agate
Yeah i'll get to it when i get home
dense vapor
add back weapon suggestions?
proven tide
no.
rugged mist
"Hey guys i have a weapon suggestion it looks like 
and I call it 'my friend's dad' and you use it and it deals a billion damage to everything in the game"
proven tide
by 'controversial' i mean 'if even half of this were to be implemented it would constitute a really big everything overhaul worth a full update or three and i'm honestly just using a suggestion proposal as a platform to address the issues it seeks to fix'
dense vapor
low proc rate sadly
lost agate
Debuffs?
proven tide
(rather than actually intending the suggestion to get in)
not just debuffs
@ashen warren did a wonderful job addressing that one
dense vapor
usually friends dad gets lost on the way to get milk
proven tide
ty honey <3
ashen warren
lurkin
sand umbra
❗
proven tide
but calamity is severely dependent on hp-scaled, on-hit, and on-damage effects
on top of debuffs being useless
sand umbra
And many of these effects just don't work.
sand umbra
Frostburn is a bit of help in the vanilla game because debuffs early-game are actually strong enough to mean something.
proven tide
frostburn is fucking useless flavour padding when all bosses' immunity tabs list Immune To Everything But
dense vapor
true
sand umbra
proven tide
but that's seq's corner of the field love you bby
dense vapor
unless its a dungeon guardian type boss
in which case having some way to deal trickle damage is important
sand umbra
see I'd agree with you
ashen warren
actually, ceaseless is immune
ashen warren
Which is a dg type boss
proven tide
i want to address how much calamity relies on the player getting hit, landing hits, or taking/avoiding a certain cap of damage to maximise usefulness by which i mean being more than a limp pool noodle
dense vapor
but yeah calamity sort of takes off on it's own balance and leaves vanilla behind except to pick up the moon and eclipse events
proven tide
let's take the big brain example of the luminite armours
dense vapor
the coolest og armours
proven tide
stardust has the STANDO POWA memes and impressive flat boosts to minion slots and damage — the highest armour damage boost in the game, in fact, with no conditions
proven tide
constant stealth
sand umbra
Nebula gives you beefy boosters for dealing damage.
proven tide
mind
sand umbra
Stardust gives you a stand.
proven tide
nebula gives all kinds of crazy shet
dense vapor
nah vortex is the best
ranger is literally the best class
followed a fair way behind by melee
sand umbra
I may be slightly biased but that's not the point was I making it that
dense vapor
anything else is just unnecessary suffering
sand umbra
And then there's Xeroc armor.
ashen warren
that's your opinion edgyn 
sand umbra
Which gives most of its effects...only on being hit.
proven tide
to be fair nebula is indeed the weakest link in this point
sand umbra
Except everything post-ML deals very high damage and Calamity, mainly in higher difficulties, outright encourages just not getting hit in the first place.
proven tide
i'll give you that free
dense vapor
my opinion is rooted in fact and logic
proven tide
calamity encourages not getting hit
sand umbra
You think I'm kidding?
dense vapor
nope
proven tide
xeroc grants xeroc wrath and rage upon taking damage and wrath/rage indefinitely below half health
dense vapor
i know you aren't
calamity punishes you for getting hit as frequently as you can get away with in vanilla
ashen warren
the only passive boost of xeroc is the on-hit thing
which is basically just previous armors but better instead of something unique
dense vapor
respawn in multiplayer during yharon
instant buff, full heal from nurse
sand umbra
And you're generally encouraged to not get hit in the first place because everything post-ML very quickly starts to deal high damage.
dense vapor
wormhole to friend
proven tide
what seq said
ashen warren
I remember talking to you about this vetus 
sand umbra
Which makes one wonder why these effects exist when you won't get much use of out them, especially on the higher difficulties that Calamity so valiantly prides itself on having (Rev and Death).
lost agate
I do agree dmg on some stuff needs tunning, but thats another deal
rugged mist
I think mostly lategame it just shouldnt be a major feature of any items, since theres no hits you can be taking
lost agate
What im confused about here is wtf is the suggestion
dense vapor
well some benefits like surviving an attack that kills you or being fully revived are handy
proven tide
less hp-based, on-hit-based, and on-taking-damage based conditions
ashen warren
It's really weird as-is
Get damage increase by taking damage, calamity has a big don't take damage game and DR is nerfed.
dense vapor
generally I hear the auric tesla armour go off when fighting scal
ashen warren
might wanna like
Make it clearer?
rugged mist
I think it needs to be a bit more of a specific suggestion yeah
dense vapor
definitely
dense vapor
if you can really isolate specific issues you can formulate a solid suggestion out of this I reckon
ashen warren
The mode that matters 
proven tide
ai i ain't made any sorta suggestion yet i was just beginning to approach the topic when we spiralled into specifics
sand umbra
lost agate
Oh it is now?
sand umbra
indeedily doodle it is
lost agate
Ah well guess its was just too much of a meme to let it go
sand umbra
it used to be Rev+ but now it's a global softcap
rugged mist
lost agate
There has been several attempts at making DR not just capped to prevent memes
ashen warren
DR cap rework tbh.
Halved effectiveness until 35-40%, halved again after, etc until basically nothing.
lost agate
Sadly all attempts failed for one reason or another
proven tide
unless you at 95%+ then luigi% all you want
dense vapor
my poor friend had warding on all his accessories until post providence
void kelp
tbh I’d love for the DR cap to be raised especially for melee
dense vapor
I only found out his mistake that late
proven tide
i understand fab holds an intense dislike of luigi but why shit on one of the more entertaining playstyles of a sandbox game
dense vapor
he was using bundle of balloons up until moonlord too I think
proven tide
there's a difference between discouraging and hard nuking
dense vapor
luigi board?
proven tide
you don't know, he might have been on def mode
void kelp
maybe melee armors can get an increased DR?
ashen warren
It's the same reason why legendary scaling is gone
ashen warren
It invalidates other dev time.
rugged mist
Well tbf I think of it this way: if I was doing my millionth calamity run with my friend and he yet again went for the same easy cheesy playstyle hed hone for the past hundred thousand times I'd be pretty aggravated
ashen warren
So you put truckloads of work into a boss or smth, then somebody just luigi% gg.
dense vapor
make accesory modifiers multiplicative rather than additive 
lost agate
Ew no
elfin swan
No
proven tide
luigi% is afk and win
dense vapor
is that the green cap andrew the guide has
proven tide
take no actions
void kelp
based off of the memes “Luigi wins by doing nothing”
ashen warren
luigi% is defeating a boss by doing absolutely nothing
dense vapor
well
void kelp
summoner actually dodges and uses adren sometimes
ashen warren
you set up everything then hope it works
dense vapor
even in vanilla you still need a left click to summon golem
proven tide
summoner has 104 def from auric tesla
lost agate
Often done in normal mode cuz that the only way you get to tank so much
proven tide
summoner can't afford to not dodge 
rugged mist
Honestly the biggest brain playstyle
ashen warren
And without DR cap it would.
proven tide
so, uh
dense vapor
you can make hoik patterns and wire around most bosses probably
ashen warren
not allowed
dense vapor
just so long as they have predicatble patterns
ashen warren
That's doing something
dense vapor
nah
proven tide
on-damage vs hp-scaling with a bit of why do things always emphasise hitting enemies instead of just giving flat on unique boosts on the side
dense vapor
i deadass mean you start the game, flick a switch and do nothing from then on at all
no crafting or anything
opal barn
Luigi is literally no movement and no attacks, now i suggest you turn away to #calamity-mod-talk because lugi% is not for here
proven tide
because we all know that no arguments towards luigi% will convince the lead devs anything other than no
dense vapor
just a prebuilt technical world
void kelp
wait so how would y’all feel about increasing the DR cap for users in melee armor to 50% instead of 33%?
dense vapor
for pure melee maybe
ashen warren
it's more melee bias
lost agate
Half the dmg taken is still a big number
ashen warren
And melee already aces the entire game
lost agate
120 dmg
Drops to 60
dense vapor
the game can determine if you are using pure melee or not
so it's a possibility if melee ever falls behind
not that it will
melee is too good rn
free mage
ashen warren
There's also the idea of summoners holding a trumelee weapon at all times.
Free DR.
dense vapor
lower dps
opal barn
and then they would deal 33% damage
lost agate
Its more like 66% i think tera
dense vapor
ah
void kelp
but uh yeah; I’m gonna be popping in and out since school but I wanna see where this discussion goes in relation to the possibility of buffing DR
dense vapor
DR gets buffed but enemies get dr piercing attacks
ashen warren
Buffing DR honestly I don't see why.
proven tide
DR cap is not gonna get nerfed
ashen warren
also DR pierce is nono
dense vapor
DR is fine as it is imo
sand umbra
now what on earth is the point of buffing DR if everything important pierces it
proven tide
The only way I can see it working is if enabling/disabling it above 95% is a config option
dense vapor
i was jonking
proven tide
but "just for luigi% purists" isn't a valid reason
void kelp
tbh my stance is more like
ashen warren
someone would reach 100% anyway and just play normally
void kelp
“I want beating scal on rev+ as true melee to be a thing”
sand umbra
what's true melee
ashen warren
For that, make a true melee exo swing.
dense vapor
no sword beams
dense vapor
why does melee get such fucking strong magic tier projectiles for free
ashen warren
Currently the exoblade has the beefiest true melee stats atm except for murasama.
proven tide
I was thinking about that on the way to commit buy bread today
why not
endgame truememe
that is literally just
dense vapor
because mage costs mana
ashen warren
Having a right click for exoblade big good imo
lost agate
Animus
dense vapor
deal some damage
ashen warren
Mage deals more damage than melee more often
ashen warren
animus is ^
lost agate
do we really need more swords for scal?
rugged mist
Do we really need more swords
sand umbra
i mean if you wanna get technical
ashen warren
Giving exoblade a right click that acts exactly the same.
ashen warren
just no laser
rugged mist
Beat you to it
dense vapor
we really need a magic gun for scal
ashen warren
how about no
dense vapor
magic guns have content at all levels except pre and post scal
it's odd that they drop off
ashen warren
I loathe this subclass thing right now.
placid moth
What's there for Post-SCal mage actually
dense vapor
lots
proven tide
vehemence