cultist archers do a little damage though
#suggestions-discussion
ashen warren
tawdry magnet
Adding minions isn’t a bad idea tho
ashen warren
they might just buff attack if anything
versed mica
yeah but you can still melt them
zenith hazel
if you get hit by a cultist archer while running, what are you even doing
ashen warren
Like this one 
versed mica
and when post golem you are raiding the dungeon they can be scary to walk past
tawdry magnet
As they are atm archers wouldn’t make it more difficult, but if they were heavily bugged that’d be cool
ashen warren
they need a bit of buffing
lost agate
Grounded enemies on a flying boss 
ashen warren
why not
lost agate
Because they wont do shit
ashen warren
you cant just be flying forever
you have to touch the ground eventually, there's flight time
tawdry magnet
Grappling hooks exist
zenith hazel
touch the ground for like a few miliseconds and fly again
ashen warren
lunatic cultist needs a buff in some way or form
yeah, and basically anything else would have more impact
zenith hazel
just make it spawn his dragon regardless of whether you hit the right one or not
lost agate
By the time your flight runs out they either despawned or theyre too far to be a threat
Not like the ground becomes a death zone
ashen warren
Dodging the arrows at that point wouldn't even register difficulty.
zenith hazel
or make cultist spawn a dragon at 50% HP and make it invulnerable
is that enough difficulty for you?
tawdry magnet
That’s a cool idea
versed mica
that would be painful
lost agate
Dragon is kinda ass tho
tawdry magnet
For rev+ that’d be awesome
versed mica
It would still be a pain
zenith hazel
aight, 30-20%?
tawdry magnet
Deleted the suggestion lol
ashen warren
I have been brainstorming a cultist buff already brav.
You went the same direction as me for rituals.
yeah because it was shit
zenith hazel
yeah I was drawing inspiration
ashen warren
that is a good idea
zenith hazel
hope you don't mind
ashen warren
Was thinking more that the cultist would start with really low impact attacks and the clone spam would add up, but still be dodgable.
and nah it's fine
versed mica
thats an interesting thought
ashen warren
that's what this channel is for after all
what if at 50%hp ( maybe 70% rev+ ) a scal sphere type thing spawns, but smaller and way faster
tawdry magnet
?
zenith hazel
hmm, a slower version of the dragon then?
ashen warren
well yes but you didn't ask brav smh
zenith hazel
I'm referring to what Shucks said
tawdry magnet
It’s a joke atm
ashen warren
a small sphere that can't take damage that follows the player at a very fast speed
tawdry magnet
Oh sorry
lost agate
It doesnt need to be hard to the point its unfair
It just needs to be more challenging
tawdry magnet
Yeah true
zenith hazel
I wouldn't mind it having doomsayer AI, but that depends
versed mica
The dragon is decent, but not 50%
zenith hazel
25% then
versed mica
yeah thats better
tawdry magnet
Changed it to 30
ashen warren
Should LC in diff be nearer to ravager, fishron, or deus?
Dont add a dragon
we need something else
it's not adding
dragon unfair annoying and bad
It already exists.
zenith hazel
I'd say harder than golem but easier than those 3
ashen warren
harder than golem is uh
not hard
ashen warren
again, a scal type sphere would be cul
zenith hazel
ok, near PBG levels of hard then
tawdry magnet
If LC is too easy it’s easy to obtain pillar weapons
LC should be pretty difficult imo
ashen warren
'specially since pbg has similar design choices in attack patterns iirc
LC isn't the main boss though, ML is.
tawdry magnet
Yeah but with eidolists existing it’s possible to get pillar weapons much earlier
zenith hazel
how about making LC switch attacks faster as the fight progresses?
tawdry magnet
Making LC harder would add more challenge to that
ashen warren
So the attacks that are a threat are: The ritual because holy fuck that dragon, the ice thing, the lightning orb.
Am I missing anything?
make that 3 projectile thing a 5 projectile thing
eh?
tawdry magnet
The lightning orb is way too easy
ashen warren
The fireballs?
tawdry magnet
You can basically stand still
ashen warren
The lightning orbs true potential is shown by new storm weaver, don't underestimate it.
no the other blue things
the star things damn it
everyone forgets about those
Those will almost never be a threat.
zenith hazel
have cultist start firing a deathray at like 20%?
ashen warren
they should be a 5 projectile things
tawdry magnet
Lightning orb is too easy to dodge
ashen warren
You can just hit them.
tawdry magnet
I feel like the boss being a ‘cultist’ should mean more
ashen warren
they should be 5 projectiles instead of 3, and they should penetrate blocks
zenith hazel
in that case, replace the lightning orb with a deathray attack I guess
tawdry magnet
Maybe a phase where it clones itself rapidly
And all the clones attack
Or something
ashen warren
I already mentioned a clone thing.
ashen warren
Would probably be rev+ but he would always get a clone.
tawdry magnet
That’s a cool idea
zenith hazel
anyway, Fab’s probably gonna touch cultist soon anyway, we’ll just wait and see
tawdry magnet
Hopefully
ashen warren
They could position themselves around your screen like scal bros or closer to the boss to allow better dodging.
what if we made lightning thing happen seperately to other attacks, like LC does the other attacks and lightning orb randomly appears, like Storm Weaver
If it appeared at storm weaver rates that would be a meme.
tawdry magnet
You could have say 12 clones appear in a circle around you
ashen warren
i know, while the ritual is active, occasional bullet hells
tawdry magnet
And shoot stuff in a line not quite along the diameter so you’d get a spiral effect
ashen warren
Bullet hells suck, they really do.
like a sphere of projectiles when the ritual happens
proven tide
with terraria controls*
tawdry magnet
And they don’t work well in terraria
smoky wagon
Bullet hells are fine when a game has control that are designed for them
Terraria does not
zenith hazel
please keep the bullet hell to scal
tawdry magnet
^^
ashen warren
A more interesting thing imo would be him starting the ritual, then things spawn that are a form of threat.
^
a minor bullet hell
like one projectile on the opposite diraction of a fake lunatic cultist
zenith hazel
the piece of shit right after that is already a bullet hell
ashen warren
like 5 bullets
tawdry magnet
Bullet hells are an scal thing
ashen warren
that would just be projectiles
tawdry magnet
That’s the ‘novelty’ of scal
ashen warren
ikr
ashen warren
increase LC's health so the fight is longer, and add a status effect to the player that makes him a little slower. ( like prov )
tawdry magnet
That’d do nothing
ashen warren
it would make it harder to survive
adding health would just make it a slog if it was a significant buff
tawdry magnet
Mobility capping in terraria doesn’t really work
ashen warren
without actually making LC worse bullet hell
If not it'd do nothing.
it would make it harder to survive until the end, i do feel LC needs a little more health
tawdry magnet
There are more ways to make bosses hard than adding hp or bullet hells lmao
ashen warren
any better idea
I think LC summoning clones, dragons, phantasms and so on, fits the idea of a cultist more.
tawdry magnet
Yeah I agree
ashen warren
Seeing as how it's not really meant to be a frontline fighter like the other bosses we see.
tawdry magnet
Yeah
ashen warren
So you'd want something that shows cunning and guile.
The constant clones would help with that, along with enemy distractions and going invisible and whatnot.
ashen warren
That said, give LC ML deathray 
proven tide
fail three portal phases and all the cultists fire death rays in random directions during each dash
ashen warren
getting an idea
Would write it up but I have no idea how "suggestion chaining" works.
I thought it was just don't have the "in addition to blah add blah" stuff.
proven tide
ashen warren
but uh, apparently not maybe?
proven tide
"suggestion chaining" has been really wobbly and applied in bullshit ways
it's gotten to the point where relevant thoughts posted too soon after the suggestion that got the next poster thinking will be considered "chaining"
zenith hazel
just to be safe, ask the original suggester I guess
proven tide
disclaimers appear to be necessary too
tawdry magnet
Just go for it
ashen warren
i have an idea but it will make LC much harder, after 50% hp an identical LC spawns but keeps a distance to the original one, can't take damage and does not do the ritual attack, also its purple, that would make it so that you have to dodge 2 attacks at the same time like a phase 2
tawdry magnet
More than one suggestion about LC is fine
What’s the point in a LC that doesn’t do rituals
ashen warren
its a second LC
tawdry magnet
LC on its own does nothing tho
ashen warren
imagine doing the ritual thing while dodging stuff at the same time
tawdry magnet
Dodging like, the stars or whatever? Yeah not hard haha
2 LCs that both did rituals and stuff maybe
ashen warren
still would make a difference
tawdry magnet
But that was sequences clone idea
ashen warren
what like 2 LCs one doing a ritual but all of them being purple?
like a normal ritual and a purple ritual?
frail mantle
wh
lost agate
@rocky sphinx can you not
zenith hazel
your kill Shucks
ashen warren
when you summon a mod but a mod was already lurking
anyway yeah I'm writing up a rework of LC that probably won't get in but why not
lost agate
Oh i just realized what that image was supposed to be
ashen warren
Thanks for the get out of jail free card rak
tawdry magnet
If your suggestion is accused of chaining I’ll delete mine bc it’s not getting much support anyway
frail mantle
Add a Post-DoG upgrade to the Stardust Cell Staff
Reason for this suggestion: Summoner is in a weird spot right after defeating the Devourer of Gods. Yes, the Mechworm can get pretty ridiculous DPS against Yharon at times, especially when you use Rippers, but the problem is that there's a pretty heavy emphasis on "can". The Mechworm tends to have problems hitting Yharon, especially in parts of the fight like Subphase 4, where Yharon is constantly dashing (though this is mainly a problem Pre-Darksun, as you get the Yharon Kindle Staff, which is a bit more consistent). Also, Post-DoG is where most of the Lunar Weapons get upgrades, and the Stardust Cell Staff is a pretty cool and unique weapon.
placid moth
Yes
tawdry magnet
Good suggestion idk
Stardust cell staff isn’t that interesting tho
More post dog summons sure, but cell staff is a pretty boring weapon imo
frail mantle
i like the Cell Staff because unlike most summon weapons it's not just "slam into enemies until enemy=ded"
ashen warren
So, would this summon be a DoG drop or after the moons?
proven tide
imagine borderline item suggestions 
frail mantle
after the Moons, i'd say
ashen warren
frail mantle
iirc most Lunar upgrades are post-Moons
frail mantle
yea that's true
tawdry magnet
Also what’d you do moons with if you don’t like mech worm
frail mantle
mechworm is fine, i just think Summoners should have another option for Yharone
tawdry magnet
Fair
proven tide
squids and lamps and phantoms @tawdry magnet
better for crowds than memeworms and durgs by a wide margin lmao
tawdry magnet
Yep
proven tide
only use for worm there would be the kings/queens and even then
proven tide
then we could have lilith back :SAD:
ashen warren
baddabing baddaboom
ashen warren
Anyway I can agree, but don't expect it to work exactly the same, in fact I'd say it would probably amount to more of a ufo upgrade due to calamity not doing anything with debuffs.
proven tide
the wiki states that mechworms summoned by armour set bonuses are unaffected by minion damage bonuses
however, they can be extended by the staff of the mechworm
the mechworm staff's page states the following:
The Mechworm deals 120% of the player's normal minion damage plus an additional 46% for each minion slot, the damage scales in multiples of 46% from 166% to 580%, depending on the number of minion slots the player has. Increasing the number of segments summoned will not directly increase the minion's damage.
tawdry magnet
Time to get out the calculator lmao
proven tide
are the armour bonuses' worms affected by the same logic, hence why they are stated as being unaffected by minion damage bonuses (which is sorta the case, i suppose, as their damage output is really just dependent on slots), or is their base damage set to the fixed value displayed on their respective armour pages rather than the "120% of minion damage" headache above?
faint needle
I agree with everything but the pigmy part
frail mantle
doesn't Calamity make Plant always drop the Pygmy Staff on first kill
lost agate
Yes
ruby cobalt
no
we had a wiki talk about this shit iirc
and we arrived at a conclusion that whoever put that into wiki was dum
lost agate
O
ruby cobalt
Merk might remember more, ask him
placid moth
Wait, Plant in Calamity always drop Pygmy now ?
ruby cobalt
omfg
empty geyser
Another suggestion for shrine locator?
You know how op luxor’s gift is with some weapons right?
balmy imp
can i make other mod suggestions here example fargos souls here?
distant gyro
no, of course not
balmy imp
ok just wanted to know so i dont do an oopsie and get everyone mad
balmy imp
does fargos mods actually have a discord?
balmy imp
ok
ashen warren
i dont think rak has ever fought a cultist with a permanent dragon
void kelp
who has
queen sail
Probably Terry
opal barn
fighting cultist with a 2x speed wyvern is not fun i'll just say
lost agate
^
lost agate
Wot
open sphinx
i will donate 50 dollars just so we can get a moab post moon lor-
ashen warren
That was me who suggested that.
The post-ML MOAB.
But removes it because specific item suggestions were not allowed and I was unaware of that.
distant gyro
it's a very popular suggestion; why is it not in the frequent suggs yet? idk
hollow shell
No use now really
distant gyro
people suggested everything from BFB to DDT back when spec suggs weren't banned
radiant meadow
@placid moth what do you mean about the bewitching table? it doesn't require pygmy staff or jungle biome.
if you mean for him to sell it all the time, then it'll make the bewitching table available earlier which isn't really needed
hollow shell
Bewitching Table requires Wizard
distant gyro
reread the sugg again 
hollow shell
despite being obtainable Pre-HM
distant gyro
Bewitching Table (Requires Wizard when it can be found in Dungeon in prehardmode wtf)
I think that's a good enough condition to move
hollow shell
I actually don't have a problem with that.
distant gyro
although post-qb bewitching might be sketch
hollow shell
You can get it earlier but it becomes easier to get after a certain point
Seems fine to me
distant gyro
but imo summoner is already kinda suffering so sure
hollow shell
You're nigh guaranteed to get at least one if you pillage the Dungeon
Unless you're playing a small world and you have bad luck
in which case
you can still get the table, just later
radiant meadow
I don't see the need to push it to post qb instead of post skeletron
summoner isn't really suffering at that point.
ashen warren
Will there be custom dyes in this mod?
queen sail
Do we uhh
distant gyro
doesn't it do comparatively less than other classes for skelly
queen sail
Need them tho
distant gyro
and hive/perfs
queen sail
ashen warren
We need a Xeroc Dye.
radiant meadow
queen bee is technically post hive/perfs anyways
and afaik, it's not comparatively less
radiant meadow
and even so, you can free up some of your attention to focus on dodging to rather than aim
distant gyro
aiming with marked magnum* I guess
radiant meadow
which helps a lot in summoner's case
marked magnum is not a necessity at all
as well as being basically useless on 90% of phm bosses
it only affects like skeletron I think?
distant gyro
also sg but yea
radiant meadow
the rest of phm bosses don't have dr so it's essentially useless
marked has no effect on defense
distant gyro
I see no problem with moving bewitching table though
🤔
especially when it doesn't make sense to be sold in hardmode
radiant meadow
I think it makes enough sense. It's not the only thing that is obtainable in two different ways with big progression gaps.
queen delta
Oh god invulnerable dragon
sand umbra
Phantasmal Dragons are already something of an arbitrary addition to begin with, tbf--
They die fast just like everything else in the fight to anything with piercing obtained post-Golem and are prime targets for the chadness of Vampire Knives.
It's basically just an additional enemy that's there to mildly annoy you.
sand umbra
The other thing of it is
once you understand how to pick out the right Cultist, unless you have a weapon with really wonky aiming, you're never going to even see a Phantasmal Dragon because that's the only scenario they show up.
You don't have to dodge it if it doesn't exist.
queen delta
Phantasmal dragon seems like nothing at first until you try masomode LC
then you get enough encounters with the dragon to notice just how cancerous it is
queen delta
It's nothing if you kill it right away or it doesnt show up, but otherwise, GLHF
sand umbra
Amazing.
empty geyser
This seems really late but for the Reaper Shark roar to polter kill one, there should also be a message in chat, similar to the sunken sea shaking or sth
Because a lot of times when I fight bosses I turn off sound effects
for a more peaceful fight
You hear a roar from the deep oceans...
hollow saffron
imagine calling the abyss an ocean
hollow saffron
^
tawdry magnet
The invulnerable dragon would definitely be more annoying in maso mode but in vanilla it would just add some challenge
radiant meadow
Too much challenge to the point it would be unfair imo
Cultist may need a buff but that's not the path that should be taken
karmic stone
Dragon locks you in a certain movement pattern that doesn't fit well with the projectiles falling from the sky
lost agate
Does maso even change the dragon itself?
Because if it changes it then fuck me it has to be even more annoying
radiant meadow
Makes the dragon always spawn iirc
loud arrow
I think it's speed up summon with LC health decrease. But I've heard it's pretty much instanst after a certain point
sand umbra
From what I remember reading, Maso LC's ritual completes instantly, spawning the Phantasmal Dragon anyway.
lost agate
So almost nothing changes with dragon?
sand umbra
¯_(ツ)_/¯
lost agate
Yeah no i dont like the idea at all
queen delta
It just spawns it every ritual
empty geyser
Cultist is easier to no hit than even clone
queen delta
cultist is top 3 easiest bosses to nohit
placid moth
@radiant meadow Bewitching Table actually requires Wizard to be present to be buyable, which is ridiculous in my opinion because it's already available Post-Skeletron. I would consider making it available all the time, but it wouldn't really make much of a difference since Witch Doctor spawns after beating QB, which is often fought before Skeletron, unless the player intentionally fights QB way before some of the other bosses. The Bewitching Table example is just to illustrate how irrational some of these conditions can be.
radiant meadow
I'm saying bewitching table shouldn't be obtainable earlier
Bewitching table is not the only item that can be obtained more than one way
Yet progression locked in some methods
And at least make your suggestion clearer of that
The wording implies bewitching table needs jungle or pygmy staff
placid moth
Actually, I had no intention of making Bewitching Table available all the time.
The idea was to make the summoner accessories more accessible
But sure, I'll edit it.
radiant meadow
Then why even mention the table
If you had no intentions to change the table, it should've been omitted
placid moth
Yeah.
radiant meadow
(Remove it from the first bullet point still)
The last bullet point makes the first table bullet irrelevant
Or you could combine them
placid moth
What do you mean, combine them
radiant meadow
oh I guess it's fine
placid moth
Eh it's alright, thanks for the feedback
hollow shell
uhh
I'm confused on how you separated the "Witch Doctor" and "Changes" sections
cuz the first one in Witch Doctor mentions a change you're suggesting
then the second one says the status quo
then the first Changes is status quo I think?
radiant meadow
they really should just be combined
placid moth
Oh fuck, I messed up
radiant meadow
something like
Witch Doctor Changes:
-Hercules Beetle, Pygmy Necklace, and Tiki armor only require Plantera to be sold now.
-Leaf Wings have no requirements (except hardmode)
-Bewitching Table has no requirements
Why: dikflsdifjsoijf
placid moth
How did I not see that
hollow shell
m
queen delta
Leaf Wings are sold by Witch Doctor during a full moon phase, blood moon, and the player must wear full jungle armor and have living leaf wand in inventory
radiant meadow
no
sand umbra
radiant meadow
on the bright side, your new reqs no longer include hardmode
zenith hazel
post-QB, seems legit
sand umbra
post-QB wings 
zenith hazel
why not bee wings tbh
queen delta
Time to buff all other wings to compensate
queen delta
Because vanilla balancing is as good as its code
zenith hazel
because those bee wings are tattered 
distant gyro
Bee wings are wack, that's all
zenith hazel
didn’t you already suggest that but it died at 57 stars?
swift bison
technically yes (my post right now was meant to be a joke post i'll delet)
civic rampart
suggestion for golem: make him summon 2-3 boulders from the ceiling (not actual ones or else the dmg will be too high) everytime he lands on the ground after a jump, if enraged make him summon 5 actual boulders from the sky in addition to the previous attack
reason: an attempt to make him challenging
hollow saffron
actual boulders if enraged
civic rampart
yeah, why not?
brittle merlin
So like the boulder traps?
hollow saffron
formatting
civic rampart
ok posted
worthy fiber
@devout lava Calamity's Vanities mod already has that
fleet night
calamity's vanities alread- oh you said that already
empty geyser
Pins smh, pins.
bitter topaz
@carmine stream do you mean a punishment log?
proven tide
i think they mean an audit log channel, period.
at which point you just give @e audit perms
ruby cobalt
I wonder what would drive a man to think that would be a good idea
proven tide
which is fucken stupid because it means people can see the creation, editing, and deletion of channels they mightn't even be allowed to know of
hey hey time to abuse my power of diplomatic immunity and ask dan—
danny offlined 
ruby cobalt
%mod% changed #idiot-log's description to "get the fuck outta here you dirty data scraper"
sounds like a wonderful idea to me tbh 
fierce hedge
What about my suggestion?
No comments? Xd
I felt like there would be some critisism
frail mantle
despawning the lifeless motionless balls of ooga booga at 1% health has been suggested before i think
proven tide
i love that that's just become their name
proven tide
@onyx minnow thank you for this
pliant bone
It has been suggested like atleast once every 2 weeks I recall
ashen warren
Try not to fragment so much there Markie, and all of that kinda info can be found in the pins, for future reference
fierce hedge
Oh sorry And I did look at the pins. I couldnt find anything about it
I just forgot for a second
Sorry about that
carmine stream
@bitter topaz yes
queen sail
Why not just remove them at the end in general tbh
The end is supposed to signify that the player won and the rest is just SCal monologue
How the hell are we supposed to take anything she’s saying when there’s still 4 gigantic monster orbs wanting our asses
half basalt
@devout lava You do know miniature heart of the elements is a thing right?
void kelp
calamity’s vanities and also they were already told
half basalt
I still consider Calamity's Vanities part of Calamity 🤷
devout lava
Ive known that like 5 hours ago
fierce hedge
Before anyone asks, Yes I already suggested something but that was a few hours ago, I was not planning on suggesting this like 5 minutes later after i suggested before.
proven tide
@fierce hedge maybe post-pbg
fierce hedge
Hm... I don't know. Gypsy power is already hard to obtain
And if we keep it at Golem tier, You can use the ambrosial Ampoule to mine Chaotic ore
night cradle
Isn't the Gypsy Powder a 50% on Normal/100% on Expert drop from what I remember?
fierce hedge
Which makes the abyss a bit less frustrating to explore
it is iirc
But still, You get my point
night cradle
Well, with Moths spawning you can just use Zerg/Chaos Candle and Hunter Potions so you can easily find them
It's not that needed imo
fierce hedge
Due to Moths spawning less in post-golem due to the plague mobs
zenith hazel
because that’ll trivialize farming for it
why have it as a drop in the first place if you can just buy it at the start of hardmode?
fierce hedge
Exacly
Thats broken
I was thinking of PBG too but i don't have really a reason for having it be sold on that point of the game
placid moth
What's the difference if it's Post-Golem though
Gypsy Powder is still farmable at the very start of hardmode, no ?
fierce hedge
You can decide if you want it earlier
Example; You actually farm for it and get the bonus mining speed to farm ores faster
Or you wait and stick with what you got and wait untill you defeated Golem
zenith hazel
but again, if you can buy it, then what’s the point of having it as a moth drop? it’s redundant
fierce hedge
It's a nice HM accessory for exploration. If you farm for it before Golem it Rewards the player with having it earlier in game rather than just defeating golem
Do you get what I'm saying? I'm not the best at explaining things
queen sail
It’s a guaranteed drop on expert though
A zerg should literally spawn a moth in like
Around half a minute at most
fierce hedge
Turtoises everywhere
queen sail
You ever heard of building shelters
sand umbra
A zerg should literally spawn a moth in like
Around half a minute at most
Zerging in the Underground Jungle for any reason in early Hardmode is a death sentence.
fierce hedge
Exacly.
sand umbra
And you will NEVER have the Moth come to you in a shelter.
You HAVE to go out and find it, it's not an enemy that actively tries to go near you or even will.
ruby cobalt
in fact, that moth is gonna get stuck somewhere 2 screens away from you
fierce hedge
Thats my point
sand umbra
^
ruby cobalt
and then despawn once you approach it as an extra layer of XDDDDDD IM GUD ENEMY
fierce hedge
You will be rewarded if you wanna put in effort in finding it early HM
But will just be a normal thing if you decide to continue to post-Golem
placid moth
I think getting boss lore in new world is easier tbh
loud arrow
And then SCal lore drops and you die from oneshot 😄
brazen bramble
zerg too hard? then use a chaos candle instead, it's not THAT bad
i literally killed 1000 tortoises using a chaos candle and only died like once
and i even got a moth banner, do the math
sand umbra
that's
not the point.
Increasing spawn rates by any means in the Underground Jungle when in early Hardmode is a death sentence.
sand umbra
- the Moth will never show up on your screen, it'll be like a screen away
- you're now being assaulted by bees from every direction, oh and did i mention
- fucking turtles
lost agate
6 hornets on a small cave momentum
placid moth
Personally I use blocks for defense wherever I go
brazen bramble
then wait till you are stronger... what's the problem?
lost agate
Non linearity
sand umbra
turtles and hornets everywhere
sand umbra
and mind you it's still infuriating to find a moth without tile-ignoring weaponry
and then you gotta find where the fucker dropped its powder.
placid moth
What was your point again
sand umbra
turtles.
fierce hedge
Same here
sand umbra
the point was that turtles are the true endgame boss and that everything related to the Underground Jungle should be balanced around those motherfuckers existing.
I think.
fierce hedge
lol
brazen bramble
use the fact that they are huge to your advantage
just kill them through a hole (but we are sliding right into #help-advice-read-pins at this point)
there are so many ways you can make your life in the jungle easier,
placid moth
Markie, why not add Beetle Juice, Maneater Bulb etc to the list ?
placid moth
Yes, but it's more convenient if everything is buyable together from a NPC
The entire idea of your suggestion is to reduce grinding, no ?
brazen bramble
also when you are going to mine chlorophyte or find life fruits you are almost certainly going to stumble upon a moth
fierce hedge
Not really. Its just a pain to find.
Plus these items are obtainable even on the surface jungle
There still should be Some farming involved
placid moth
Yes, they are, but more often than not, I would actually just trash them to make space for other things
sand umbra
Derplings are a dime a dozen, and most of the pre-Hardmode Jungle mats are easy to farm near the tail end of pre-Hardmode.
Maneater Bulbs aren't too hard to farm either.
sand umbra
The issue is that Moths are AAAAAAAAAAAA to find because the spawn slots are taken up by the fucking multitude of other things that can spawn in the Jungle, especially post-Golem.
brazen bramble
then kill them
brazen bramble
this is how spawning works
sand umbra
Combine that with how deadly everything in the Underground Jungle is in early Hardmode, and
well
yes.
brazen bramble
then don't go early hardmode then
the jungle is supposed to be dangerous after unlocking hardmode
fierce hedge
It's about this moth. Not about how dangerous
sand umbra
I never said it gets substantially less dangerous post-Mechs or post-Plantera--
brazen bramble
moth lives in dangerous area - save it for later
but it does since you get stronger
sand umbra
turtles
fierce hedge
sand umbra
I will never understand why turtles, of all things, are the deadliest entities in the Jungle.
sand umbra
placid moth
Perhaps, someone should try a Turtle Summon ?
queen sail
@sand umbra you ever had a brick fly at you at the speed of a drag racer?
That’s probably why
sand umbra
topaz dirge
Can I add some info to my "loot shrine locator" item sugggestion?
Because
Nothing
signal prairie
^
queen sail
If you’re sick and tired of searching for shrines you can just use the fargo map clearer
If you wanna be cheap
void kelp
if only it worked on current tmodloader
faint magnet
I had an idea that, rather than just leaving all the old lore items to become unloaded items, they could be replaced with treasure bag-like items that contain the new version. This way, anyone who already has the lore items won't lose anything, but the old lore items won't have to be constantly updated.
Is this worth putting in the suggestions channel, or does it not really matter enough?
ruby cobalt
lemme just make a temporary item for another version
and then remove it because LOLE
void kelp
I mean, it’s useful to talk over it here so we don’t have suggestions that’re ultimately going to be ignored flooding the channel
faint magnet
Which is why I'm asking; if nobody thinks it's significant enough of a suggestion, there's no point in putting it in the suggestions channel
void kelp
I think as an idea it means well but the simpler solution to regain the lore items would simply be to spawn them in
gentle rain
what do you guys thing about PBG . Does she needs buffs or she fine in terms of power level?
frail mantle
she's fine imo
night cradle
^ tbh
warm tinsel
I agree PBG's fine
Cultist tho, needs to be more challenging so I agree for the dragon... But it should have more HP instead of being plain invincible.
lost agate
Dragon is ass so i dont really agree
gusty geode
That's what happens when you don't pay attention
At least there's only one
warm tinsel
Oh come on, just 10% more hp since I always get it right and never have him spawn, a scripted dragon is good
lost agate
Its not a challenge its plain unfair
warm tinsel
Then he could have a change of AI
opal barn
You don't understand how bad dodging a 2x speed wyvern with cultist is
warm tinsel
Since it's meant to punish you, a change would make it fair
gusty geode
Imagine if the limit of one dragon at a time didn't exist
lost agate
Punishing you for fighting LC
sand umbra
tired haven
I mean, ancient visions are the kids of that limitation
civic pond
there are other ways to make cultist better that dont involve dragon
lost agate
Instead of actually messing up
warm tinsel
No no, he would only spawn if you actually get the Cultist right
sand umbra
Just remove the Dragon.
warm tinsel
But well, I still think LC needs more
sand umbra
ez noscope gg.
warm tinsel
Even without dragon
gusty geode
That's something I've noticed this mod doesn't seem to believe in, punishing you for things besides getting hit
sand umbra
There's a FUCKTON of things you can do with LC that have nothing to do with the Phantasmal Dragon.
lost agate
And this was already discussed. 
civic pond
I like the idea of him teleporting and his illusions
warm tinsel
What about... Literally what he does in Fargo? But just in a different way?
sand umbra
The fact I was able to conceptualize like three new attacks for him at least should say a thing or two.
warm tinsel
He could summon the pillars or he could summon vortex portals
gusty geode
Could incorporate elements of the Pillars into his fight
Maybe the lightning bolt could inflict Distorted
Or it could summon hordes of Small Star Cells
civic pond
i like that idea
warm tinsel
Small cells would be good
civic pond
sand umbra
warm tinsel
May we suggest that once we- nvm
sand umbra
warm tinsel
Go ahead Thomas
sand umbra
i know ;u;
warm tinsel
Let's all agree on the attacks first tho
civic pond
Incorporating all the elements of each pillar into the fight
because defeating him literally summons the pillars
bruh momento
warm tinsel
I would say X% has the cells
And Y% the vortex lightnings
gusty geode
Does incorporating Brain Sucklers in some way seem like a good idea
civic pond
no
warm tinsel
Only 4 tho
civic pond
Im talking projectiles
gusty geode
Ok
So
Maybe he can rain down short showers of those meteors around the Solar Pillar
warm tinsel
We have: 1 eidolist, vortex lightnings, solar rain, ancient visions, doom, a damn dragon, cells and?
Yes we need nebula
gusty geode
So
No Brain Sucklers?
warm tinsel
He spawns them in a pack and only two times per fight
A total of 8 easy killable sucklers
gusty geode
That's a little underwhelming imo
Maybe summoning pairs of them as a normal attack
Limited to lower HP if necessary
They should actually mean something rather than just be cannon-fodder
warm tinsel
But hey, you get one on ya, it's black out!
That's something he would do, cloud your vision
warm tinsel
Or just have the doom things inflict the black out debuff
gusty geode
Nothing
Only one that does nothing 
civic pond
ok but
warm tinsel
Nebula annoys you with magic attacks and debuffs
civic pond
doesn't it have homing projectiles
from those evolution beasts or something
and blindess
warm tinsel
Yes it does, but also nigh undodgeable lasers from those float fuckers
gusty geode
Maybe he could change his behavior to resemble
What's it called
The brain one that flies close to you shooting a single projectile then teleporting
Just do that for a few seconds at a time
warm tinsel
Well, if you are careless and a weak suckler gets to ya it's on you
It would add a clouded vision element, but I agree on the weak HP/attack AND him teleporting and lazoring your ass
gusty geode
One idea I'd proposed for Maso-mode was taking away your flight and dropping you onto a flat platform where you fight a few waves of enemies
Either more Cultists or the humanoid enemies from the Pillars
At lower HP he could use some of his attacks while invulnerably watching you from above
brazen bramble
what do you guys think about adding the shield of cthulhu to asgard's valor's recipe? it just makes sense because right now asgard's valor gets a dash from thin air
actually now that i think about it, never mind
it's an expert mode item
warm tinsel
Exactly, but you could make it as an alternative recipe 
tawdry magnet
Armageddon exists
ashen warren
arma doesn't affect wings
terse sundial
yes, but for technical purposes it would be make the asgard's valor expert exclusive which is what we don't want to happen seeing as how we just changed the elysian aegis and the asgardian aegis to not be expert exclusive anymore
terse sundial
@distant idol Can you not make post like that here, warned
terse sundial
jfc
hollow saffron
God help us
civic pond
zenith hazel
@rare slate please don’t fucking do that
hollow saffron
Bitch
civic pond
bruh
hollow saffron
Im black
zenith hazel
muted, enjoy
hollow saffron
I want to punch you through my screen so fucking hard right now
civic pond
get rid of it please
zenith hazel
jfc
civic pond
and just ignore it
zenith hazel
ffs
bitter topaz
civic pond
and good riddance
void kelp
jeez.
zenith hazel
yeah just ban both of them Bidoof
civic pond
Also someone remind me, whats the security for joining this discord again?
civic pond
o
zenith hazel
don’t mind it, some idiots are being idiots, now back on topic
hollow saffron
ok.
void kelp
the racist dude pinged you but dw he's gone now
i really like the gypsy powder suggestion
void kelp
ambrosial ampuole,
void kelp
idk, aesthetics?
void kelp
its basic and practical
i also like the one that's basically "remove the jungle house requirement to get good loot and move to post-plant"
ashen warren
What happened now?
terse sundial
just dumbasses posting shit
lost agate
ANYWAY, moving on
civic pond
dont see anything wrong with this
void kelp
fastest stars in the west
terse sundial
we were going to change it at one point, but nothing ever came about it
civic pond
oh.
hollow shell
@terse sundial Bluecheck?
lost agate
Smth smth "not like people are gonna read pins if you add "read pins" anyway"
civic pond
just change every cannel to read pins
lost agate
Then watch it be ignored
terse sundial
I instinctively put it on there, pretty sure it's been sent before or reached 90 stars
vocal grotto
well, I guess then it would be a good idea to remove the read pins from other channel names then
hollow shell
Not that I can tell
void kelp
it'll at least encourage people slightly more than the none
civic pond
does it really though
hollow shell
Actually its been suggested a lot fewer times than I thought it has
terse sundial
ah it never got super high, but it's been suggested a few times yeah
hollow shell
I assume some have been deleted?
terse sundial
maybe
vocal grotto
I mean, when I first joined that's what got me to read the pins in the first place
terse sundial
i'll take off the check for now, but i'll keep looking
queen delta
Yes of course there's gonna be people who still wont read pins, but it'd definitely get some people to read pins since they might forget that it exists or is unimportant
radiant meadow
It's a blue check
Providab's suggestion was only last June https://discordapp.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/585854145064337411
radiant meadow
demon heart is still expert only
and most people probably wouldn't armageddon first time around so said expert drops are delayed
pliant cargo
it is arguably harder to nohit a normal boss than it is to regularly kill an expert boss
it's fine as is
half basalt
i mean to be fair, nohitting a normal mode boss is probably harder than normally fighting an expert boss
lost agate
Which is not that hard compared to homing skulls and having to hit the moat erratic moving shit to hit the actual boss
half basalt
hands are still a thing 🤷
hallow raven
Doesn't that suggestion about armageddon/treasure bags count as removing non-linear progression?
lost agate
You can circle and dodge the hands no problems
odd terrace
I wonder what % of people play on Expert
hallow raven
It seems people use it to aid in progression
half basalt
@odd terrace what, calamity players or vanilla players?
odd terrace
Both
half basalt
like, 85% of players
void kelp
Stats would be different for sure bc calamity is difficulty
half basalt
5% doing revengeance, 5% doing death mode
hallow raven
Idk to me it seems to violate the rule about removing non-linearity
hollow saffron
nonlinearity?
keen palm
Prevent the Mighty Wind debuff from being inflicted on the player.
We all know how annoying this debuff is. It pushes you slightly in a direction forever until you die or the sandstorm stops. There is a few problems with this:
- When inflicted with this debuff, it can feel sluggish to move in a direction.
- It messes with horizontal acceleration, which until Post-ML or if you're spamming dashes, can make or break you in hectic combat.
-It doesn't "add" anything to the game.
Solutions to this windy problem
1. As ChaoSpiritZ said a while back, simply making the Arid Artifact also disable the sandstorm if used would work nicely.
2. Make knockback-immunity also block the effects of Mighty Wind.
3. Prevent the debuff from being encountered at all in-game.
Ideally, give it the same treatment as the Chilled debuff.
hollow saffron
uh
odd terrace
I doubt anywhere near 85% play on expert
hollow saffron
number 3 is too extreme
civic pond
^
hollow saffron
and its not really annoying unless you have like no mobility items
half basalt
an example of removing non linearity would be saying "remove Eidolon Tablet"
civic pond
honestly im ok with the mighty wind debuff
hollow saffron
like bruh do you like, stand still for 24 minutes straight
"asmr terraria sandstorm"
hollow saffron
if not then theres really no point
void kelp
I’m all for having knockback immunity => immunity to mighty wind
half basalt
betting right now
hollow saffron
besides i feel like no matter what happens with this suggestion it's gonna be a redcode moment
half basalt
redcode?
keen palm
You can post suggestions in here to get feedback before posting them in #suggestions-voting
half basalt
no idea what that means
void kelp
bruh we talk about suggestions here
half basalt
ohh ok
hollow saffron
@half basalt redcode is vanilla code
half basalt
although it says "discuss suggestions posted in #suggestions-voting here.
hollow saffron
that would need to be overwritten
gusty geode
I bet if you named a random debuff you'd find at least one person in this fandom that wants it gone
half basalt
ichor
hollow saffron
too OP
civic pond
i bet if you named literally anything you'd find at least one complaint against it
odd terrace
Slimed
gusty geode
Probably wouldn't want it inflicted on the player
Stickers can do that
half basalt
cursed flames: who uses this tbh :/
civic pond
hollow saffron
terse sundial
Mighty Wind in later stages of the game is ass
terse sundial
it would be super nice to avoid it post-ml or even mid/late hm
odd terrace
Cursed Flames was changed to basically be green ichor, wasn’t it?
hollow saffron
merk
civic pond
kinda?
gusty geode
Apparently it does lower defense now
Not as much as Ichor to compensate for the former having DoT
But still
hollow saffron
by that time period you have so much mobility
terse sundial
cursed flames also reduces enemy DR in rev+, but it is still separate from ichor
hollow saffron
you can just fly over the sandstorm
radiant meadow
cursed flames shouldn't lower defense
void kelp
it isn’t as great of a DR down but in exchange it’s a DoT
radiant meadow
unless it was changed in the most recent update, which I highly doubt
karmic stone
Cursed flames: 15% more received damage and really shitty DoT
Ichor: 20% more received damage
radiant meadow
ichor has greater dr reduction and defense drop
cursed flames has lesser dr reduction but dot
the effects are slightly different when inflicted on the player, ye
karmic stone
DoT is really shitty atm and 5%+ damage can make a difference when boss fighting, it saves precious seconds you could have died in
gusty geode
So does DoT
civic pond
DoT prevents that final "6 hp"
sand umbra
Okay but like
how fucking often is that going to be the difference between a failure and a success.
Realistically speaking.
civic pond
almost nothing.
overall DoT's do nowhere near significant damage
well.
against bosses that is
sand umbra
Mhm. I've made this point already.
Well yes but if you're trying to count it against normal enemies lemme remind you that most weapons that can inflict these debuffs will deal exponentially more damage on their own anyway.
So not only do they have completely worthless effects on bosses, on the normal enemies they're likely balanced for, they're outclassed by literally everything that can inflict them.
odd terrace
Crush Depth is disgustingly overpowered
hollow saffron
DoT damage on the wiki:
DoT damage in practice:
imean for real
like youd expect them to be more op
void kelp
that’s something you gotta change Thomas
queen delta
im looking forward to a weapon similar to daybreak
radiant meadow
debuffs are really only killer in phm
civic pond
daybreak buff still not reviewed pensive
sand umbra
I intend to, don't you worry.
Just gotta figure out how.
radiant meadow
like with lionfish or ball o fugu
sand umbra
also can my Discord stop shitting itself kthx
odd terrace
Abyss Amulet + Eater of Worlds lore item = Plague Hive aura
civic pond
i thought it would be as simple as buffing their damage but i guess not
half basalt
why do you keep using crossout
radiant meadow
ball o fugu doesn't stack and it's still pretty strong
hollow saffron
clam crusher doesnt stack
radiant meadow
clam crusher only inflicts silva stun
sand umbra
now are you sure that's from debuff damage or from the actual weapon
radiant meadow
which isn't a dot
the debuff is a bigger contributor for slime god than you might think
sand umbra
How much does it do?
hollow saffron
entropy's vigil doesnt stack on dots
radiant meadow
entropy's vigil doesn't rely on dot either
sand umbra
Don't just tell me what the weapon does, I'm asking how well the debuff fares.
hollow saffron
yet it was massively op last time i used it
karmic stone
Crush Depth gets worse the more you progress 
DoTs mostly mess with the player more than anything
If you have 50 life regen and get a 1 DPS DoT your regen will be fucked
sand umbra
Oh yeah Crush Depth is less effective the more defense your enemy has.
...that's.
not true.
Only certain debuffs prevent life regen.
karmic stone
No
sand umbra
No.
hollow saffron
nop
sand umbra
Only once in Hardmode.
gusty geode
Bleeding's the only one that comes to mind
tired haven
Any DoT debuff prevents natural regen
Unless a few special conditions are present (Honey, or using Crown Jewel/upgrades, etc.)
Nebula Regen cannot return natural regen but can negate DoT fully
short edge
Wait crabbar is in the server?
I watch him
proven tide
@short edge might like to specify a config option
short edge
K thanks @proven tide
proven tide
rover ☑ed it 
if ya don't mind saying, rowover, why'd this suggestion get turned down previously?
hollow shell
Lemme look
void kelp
iirc it was denied
hollow shell
Because devs thought it was unnecessary, constituted re-adding removed content (true yeah), and crags are eventually getting reworked anyway
frail mantle
is re-adding removed content in the Don'ts?
hollow shell
yes
void kelp
I feel like it should be if it’s not already
hollow idol
seeing how that suggestion is basically a config for if you have a better or worse computer. Would it be a viable suggestion to make a config that reduces lag on the astrum deus (Reduced lag version probably wouldn't be viable for no hitting challenges). Seeing how astrum deus is infamous for being one of the laggiest bosses due to the sheer amount of projectiles and the fact that its a bunch of worms
hollow shell
You could suggest that but I have many doubts it would be implemented
hollow idol
ah
proven tide
this is fair
misty igloo
@short edge what was the old brimstone crag?
hollow idol
hollow shell
several tall spires with the tallest in the middle
below the crag has that ^ big eye formation
warm tinsel
Guys, remember yesterday's LC discussion? Imma steal my parts real quick, feel free to suggest me more so I can edit
hollow shell
@signal prairie Who the fuck would trash it
Any galaxy brain 2 billion IQ men who trash Murasama don't deserve it
signal prairie
People who wouldnt look the item up on the wiki
hollow shell
It already says that you have to do something to unlock the sword's power in the tooltip
Anybody who reads that and thinks that's it's completely useless and will never become useful
is a dickhead
ashen warren
"oh boy look at this 666 damage sword that took countless hours to find and tear from the corner of the underworld..."
nah, trash
zenith hazel
on one hand it’ll completely remove the “Sam” cheese
hollow shell
I don't think anybody would do the Sam cheese and feel any satisfaction from it
No winners.
short edge
Bruh removing the mursama sword from that shrine would ruin the whole vibe of finding it
signal prairie
It's a weapon that's useless since it can't be used until after Yharon and who would use it for Scal
signal prairie
I'll edit it
warm tinsel
What about our LC Rev+ suggestion?
signal prairie
Aight, I changed it
sand umbra
...why would I suggest something, for a suggestion
when I already have an overhaul to the same boss that's been sitting in the Entropy's Edge doc for at least a month?
I don't see the point of calling it "our" suggestion. It's your suggestion, you're the one that's posting it.
warm tinsel
We forged it all together, I ain't taking all credits
I added the laser from Onion's part
half basalt
Most underground items ARE already craftable...
signal prairie
SS, CC, BoR, almost if not all underground ice items, a lot of Jungle items. The list goes on.
"Most" seems like something good to say until you look things up on the wikis
"A small Fraction" is a better use of words
tired haven
Well, firstly, you only said underground (and even only used examples from basic caverns)
Secondly, band of regen is sold by dryad
Thirdly, all ice and jungle items that do not have a recipe are also not materials, thus optional. From what I recall only Ice Skates and Anklet of the Wind are in recipes and both have crafts