Well. Something doesn't have to be positive
#suggestions-discussion
frosty cape
zenith hazel
there’s a ton of boomerangs post-ml though
civic pond
faint needle
Tfw late post ml is almost only boomerangs for rogue
harsh latch
that is actually true, remember that eradicator exist
zenith hazel
ele disk, molten amputator, celestus, valediction, etc
dusty stirrup
I don't think we've ever added a sugmas weapon (atleast not without having to change it quite a bit)
harsh latch
no, he means a true boomerang
dim brook
yes
harsh latch
like the enchanted boomerang
zenith hazel
wack
civic pond
amputator
dim brook
like in vanilla the terrarian
dusty stirrup
True boomerang post-ml
faint needle
A boomerang is something you throw that comes back to you
dusty stirrup
@dim brook Can you put your entire suggestion in a single message please
civic pond
the reaper for example is not a boomerang
zenith hazel
so... celestus
harsh latch
also it can hit multiple times if you throw it behind the enemy
dusty stirrup
Not like it'll get added but heh
dim brook
yes
zenith hazel
so... molten amputator and ele disks
dim brook
just a suggestion
faint needle
Y never know
dusty stirrup
A bad suggestion
dim brook
im not creative ok :/
civic pond
or at least discuss the suggestion first here.
plucky prairie
is there any reason why that one suggestion doesnt have the ⭐ react on it
civic pond
dont go and post anything in suggestions without talking about it first
dim brook
but i wanted to make a decent idea to help calamity
zenith hazel
ngl, bloomerang sounds nice but there needs to be a reason
faint needle
Its not decent tho
civic pond
nobody ever checks pins anyways
zenith hazel
it’s a good name but... why
civic pond
queen delta
A suggestion can get its stars removed if it doesnt follow the rules
radiant meadow
@unique kindle no meme suggestions
dim brook
rip
unique kindle
honestly i just wana see the Rock used for somthing. even just a dedicated trophy item.
civic pond
soon
fresh harbor
The rock will be useful later, just have patience
unique kindle
I haveth been toldeth the truth.
unique kindle
BuT IM noT AloWeD tO uSe ThE XboX mOm SaiD itS noT mY tUrN!
radiant meadow
please stop meming
unique kindle
no more memes for now.
dusty stirrup
Why is blackhand defending this
hollow saffron
@dim brook bro whats the point of it if it really does nothing
stop with the random caps and meming
it doesnt fit here
dusty stirrup
Stop with the minimod
hollow saffron
ok
dim brook
i think i hav an alright idea
ok
an underwater torch that u can place down normally unlike a glowstick?
dusty stirrup
Cursed/ichor torches
dusty stirrup
You shouldn't try to force a suggestion in
Gotta make one when you truly feel like the mod is missing something
golden kayak
You have as much knowledge as I have (seems like not so much) but you have more ambitions.
golden kayak
Do not help if in is not neсessary.
dusty stirrup
^
golden kayak
(English is hard from time to time)
west prairie
I’m not defending bad suggestions just the concept of item suggestions
civic pond
here's what they usually look like to me
sand umbra
Honestly the only reason I make mine so in-depth is because I try to ensure they make sense/are balanced-ish for the tier I'm suggesting them for--
civic pond
"Edgy/cool pun name"
"ludicrous damage"
"usually post devourer just cause"
"sometimes have no (why) reason at all or, ADD WEAPON BECAUSE THERE ISN'T ONE YET"
"add low quality sprite for EXTRA stars."
sand umbra
Sounds about right.
sand umbra
Perfect.
sand umbra
Yeah a lot of suggestions are just very quickly patched-together suggestions.
civic pond
if you wanna add a specific item at least discuss it here first
which they almost NEVER do
sand umbra
Or do what I do and spend 3 weeks putting it together in a doc first harharyes--
civic pond
? 
tbf
a doc makes it less likely to get stars
because 90% of people are too lazy to click on it
and read the damn thing
sand umbra
True.
civic pond
the bias is so clear its not even funny
sand umbra
Maybe that's why neither of the major weapon suggestions I've thrown out have gotten the momentum they need hahaues
civic pond
sand umbra
I post docs because, at least for me, they're easier to work with than Discord's text formatting.
civic pond
I only suggested one weapon that was a prehardmode whip flail
also a doc prevents walls of texts drowning out other suggs
sand umbra
That too.
civic pond
which i think is underrated
sand umbra
Posting a doc means Wall of Text hasn't awoken!
Meaning people can stare at the suggs above/below mine that have less thought but have a sprite and are thus better.
civic pond
👍
sand umbra
Or something.
civic pond
most people are biased to star suggs with sprites because uh
oh cool a picture
it looks cool
sand umbra
Pictures! ^u^
sand umbra
...except that really shouldn't be the basis of what makes a sugg cool like. At all--
Personally I focus on what exactly a suggested item does, which I. Kinda think more people should do?
I don't really care how epic it looks if it's badly balanced/thought out. 
civic pond
sand umbra
like ML harharyes--
civic pond
sand umbra
I might re-suggest the Sunlight Streamline...eventually. Keywords being might and eventually.
civic pond
did it ever get sent?
sand umbra
I. Don't believe it did?
sand umbra
...nop. 60 stars.
sand umbra
civic pond
still pretty fast
devout seal
Oh hey, one of my suggestions got 123, and a couple green checks
nothing else tho
civic pond
i really hope doms suggestions get through
devout seal
Which ones?
civic pond
About suggestion feedback on what happens to your sugg
devout seal
I.. need to read it, then.
terse sundial
@devout seal people additionally checking your suggestion means nothing, its just triggerhappy people clicking or tapping on the reaction
1 green check = a million green checks
devout seal
i know
golden kayak
Fargo got there and I still did not
west prairie
I'd be all for including more stringent restrictions on item suggestions
like, in terms of quality
terse sundial
we are still discussing the ban
west prairie
i can meet them, so it's not a problem for me
terse sundial
we will let everyone know once we come to a solution
teal ibex
i think you're focusing too much on the people who lose out on this change, personally
hollow shell
Again, a "quality" restriction is hard to judge and enforce
Would lead to arguments
teal ibex
yes, there is a very very very small demographic of people who make meaningful, potent suggestions regarding weapons
and i do feel bad that this would ultimately marginalize them
west prairie
the issue is both in determining what suggestions are good or bad on an objective basis and ensuring it's fairly enforced
teal ibex
but all other suggestions are getting swept away in some capacity despite that. this change improves the suggestions channel as a whole at the cost of that particular niche
west prairie
id much rather not just outright ban an entire form of community involvement
vocal grotto
Why not make a certain period where weapons can be suggested? Like, if they're needed.
teal ibex
if the entire form of community involvement is already 99% invalid, is that really such a huge blow?
@vocal grotto we were talking about that actually
terse sundial
^
teal ibex
not to say it will happen, but it's an idea
terse sundial
like if a wep is needed at X point you can suggest about that
teal ibex
you have to remember that this is a guideline for general suggestions. there may come a time where it could be adjusted like "hey, we need mage weapons for pbg, top suggestion gets adjusted slightly and added"
and yes, tier suggestions and weapon alterations are still totally fine most likely
west prairie
it's a slap in the face to people who put work into suggestions to lump us in with the 13 year olds who just learned what mspaint was
teal ibex
i don't disagree
we're not failing to acknowledge that this change has negatives as well
most changes of social nature involve some amount of loss
west prairie
its potentially an incredible amount of loss
and again, most of the bad suggestions DO NOT REACH THE DEV SERVER
teal ibex
but this is a very small group of people from what i've seen in the suggestions channel. it's so rare that meaningful weapon suggestions are made, even rarer that they go through, and even rarer still that they get implemented
blackhands, the problem does not stem from the dev server
the problem stems at the suggestions channel
that's where the issue is, it's overinflated and the creative space is limited
vocal grotto
What about suggestions that are basically nigh impossible to implement?
west prairie
which, again, is meant to be a proving ground where bad ideas go to die and good ones go to rise up
civic pond
oh boy here we go again
vocal grotto
Such as that one guy who suggested MC esque dimensions
west prairie
hence the star system
teal ibex
the problem with the system as it is right now is that all ideas are competing for space.
vocal grotto
^^^
teal ibex
if the suggestions channel was a true infinite space that did not have bias for more recent suggestions, i would agree with you wholeheartedly.
but the sad nature of the channel is that the quicker your suggestion gets pushed back, the less likely it is to get starred
weapon suggestions flood this space and push meaningful suggestions away faster. it's all competitive
hollow shell
Indeed
vocal grotto
My thoughts is that if a suggestion is made, a person should be the one to implement a rough copy of the idea to be sent to the devs if it is accepted.
teal ibex
in a vacuum, the change is unnecessary, 100%
west prairie
a possible solution is to have a "verified quality suggestor" role for those who have a history of well-thought-out additions
teal ibex
we've discussed that the role unintentionally promotes the opposite
terse sundial
we've brought up that role before
teal ibex
in that people who are not competent with suggestions would make suggestions to get the role, not to improve the mod
terse sundial
it wouldn't help much here
hollow shell
People trying to oversuggest shit so they get the role
west prairie
yeah i was about to bring that up
teal ibex
i mean, you've seen how many people ask to get cool dude 
civic pond
west prairie
which is why if they suggest blatantly dumb shit three times they get a channel ban
vocal grotto
Cool Dude should be a little bonus for your work/courtesy, not a goal.
west prairie
like, obvious low effort stuff not just "meh we dont exactly need it"
teal ibex
i don't disagree that bans should be more implemented, even temporary ones
hollow shell
The worst suggestions are usually one-time offenders
in my experience
Tryin to think of people who have made a bunch of bad suggestions...
vocal grotto
The issue, imo, is that people don't think about the "why" for their ideas, generally
teal ibex
but this still promotes a much more extreme workload to favor 1% or less of suggestions that i've seen
west prairie
thats a consideration to take in yeah
teal ibex
in that we need to implement a role, more thoroughly critique individual suggestions and users, and handle a ban system
which is... a lot to save the rarely meaningful weapon suggestion
vocal grotto
It goes beyond weapons if you ask me
civic pond
i think its usually weapon suggestions though
teal ibex
perhaps, but weapons are like more than twice as inflated
west prairie
my suggestion document suggested a ravager melee weapon and something somewhat similar got in
teal ibex
and i think accessory adjustments are meaningfully more common to be sent and even accepted
that's anecdotal, your experience is very much a fringe one in that you have the capacity to make competent weapon suggestions
civic pond
such as the amalgam buff?
teal ibex
if everybody made weapon suggestions like you then we'd a: rarely have any and b: not have to worry about it
hollow shell
let's just make TheBlackHand a dev. Problem solved
teal ibex
LOL
vocal grotto
You mean in my format/wording/reasoning?
west prairie
heres a real galaxy brain idea im going to delete immediately after posting for obvious reasons:
teal ibex
smh we already ha- i mean, uhhh 
civic pond
terse sundial
i mean
teal ibex
that definitely doesn't exist. gosh, why would we have that. 
west prairie
had to cash in a lot of IQ points to come up with that but i think it might be crazy enough to work
unironically
opal barn
someone already spilled the beans
vocal grotto
Yeahhhh
I imagine after about a week there'd be a floodgate of people trying to get in
west prairie
which is why you give it to people who you know can "keep they bitch ass mouths shut" as they say in the streets
teal ibex
that would work if it was something temporary like a weapon addition
but this would be a permanently, one time only, cannot be leaked system
that's a LOT of trust to have in people
west prairie
regardless i just want a place where i can post quality ideas without "totally not under 13" people ruining things for everyone
teal ibex
that is a reasonable desire to have, but i think you have to count your losses sometimes
hollow shell
(aight so new server
Calamity Suggestions
creative outlet can stay and it doesn't affect the easier-to-implement suggestion flow in the main server)
(I'm serious, I'll make it)
west prairie
or just make me a dev 
vocal grotto
Maybe a system where you'd answer a series of questions if you want to get in
Like, on a form or something. Then, it would be reviewed by a group of people
west prairie
thats too much work
teal ibex
that's a lot of a hassle to keep 1% of suggestions afloat
west prairie
consider the workload
devout seal
I wonder if i've made any good suggestions, tbh
west prairie
you could pin a message to the channel saying "everyone below who makes bad weapon suggestions triple gay"
hollow shell
Riptide Reaper was cool but it didn't have much reason behind it
especially now that Onyxia exists
queen sail
More darksun guns ig?
golden kayak
@devout seal As for me, I desidned 0 cool ones and suggested a nerf to Amidias' Trident. So nothing really.
devout seal
And i've suggested just stuff that personally gripes me.
Like an upgrade to the Bazooka that's post-ml.
and a now useless darksun suggestion, as-well as renaming abyss gravel
and fixing PBG's dashes, so she's actually consistent, and has telegraphs instead of just suddenly 'nyoom, you've taken damage from her dash'
golden kayak
Early game flamethrower
terse sundial
Amidias trident nerf 
vocal grotto
I've really only suggested things like changes to boss mechanics I disagree with or things I feel would help #suggestions-voting
golden kayak
We need another one imo tbh btw
terse sundial
soon
west prairie
meanwhile im trying to fill content voids
vocal grotto
I try to not suggest excessively. I understand that some really good ideas exist, and I'd hate to drown them further.
golden kayak
Still capable of killing ML
west prairie
smh people never suggest shit where its needed
the corruption and crimson are fucking empty as shit post mechs
west prairie
and we all know how i feel about the profaned guardians
queen sail
@west prairie to be fair hallow would also be forgotten if fab didn’t add profaned enemies to it
west prairie
yeah thats the point
golden kayak
Kirby, this thing is legit op, tornadoes should not pierce blocks OR enemies at least.
queen sail
@golden kayak I have no idea what you are talking about
queen sail
Oh the trident
west prairie
I wanna fight this
golden kayak
I will not because this ^^^ is obvious
golden kayak
Looks like a cool surface miniboss
west prairie
exactly what they are
teal ibex
oh boy sprites, the one way ticket to stars 
vocal grotto
That's another thing
People tend to have a bias to almost any sprite, unless it is absolutely abhorrent
west prairie
suggestions encouraged me to get into spriting so I could get stars, it is literally what created this spriter
hollow shell
Who suggested the sprite ban all the while ago?
golden kayak
I do not star sprited things even if I love them to balance that thing.
west prairie
if sprites were banned i would not have gotten into art
vocal grotto
Sure, but how many people fit that critera?
I doubt many got into art over the suggestions channel
teal ibex
i don't think sprites should be banned
hollow shell
Sequence, that's right
teal ibex
it's just human nature to like pretty pictures
and it shows some amount of effort, i suppose
hollow shell
Yeah that's why they should be banned
:P
Stars are biased towards sprites, when they're more or less completely useless
teal ibex
i think there's an extent to which we should reasonably hard counter human behavior
that one is probably a bit rough lol
queen sail
They’re biased towards sprites because it makes it look more “ready” imo
golden kayak
^
hollow shell
Hey you were on board with banning specific items
Guess what that would also come with?
sans new enemies and minibosses, sprites are only made for specific new items
west prairie
^
radiant meadow
thing is, usually they end up requiring a new sprite anyways, regardless of what you provide
vocal grotto
Well, this doesn't feel like it was made with effort and a desire
teal ibex
that's true, most sprites are weapons
west prairie
teal ibex
though accessories get them pretty often too
golden kayak
This one have not got 90 tho
west prairie
this does look effortful tho
vocal grotto
Much more than usual
hollow shell
That's pretty cool
west prairie
you need to ban bad blood arrows
golden kayak
Butter goliath has Rogue weapon tho.
west prairie
while not banning actually good stuff
west prairie
yes for revengeance
hollow shell
and it's rare
golden kayak
But it has one
hollow shell
🤔
west prairie
I do not want group punishment for the actions of children
teal ibex
i get it
golden kayak
Not like im against it but
teal ibex
but this group
hollow shell
But BlankHand
you are in a room full of children
teal ibex
is 99% children
west prairie
can we require a drivers licence image for access to a weapons channel
hollow shell
... yes
teal ibex
you have chosen a path of suggesting good ideas in a daycare
hollow shell
and credit card number
the three digits on the back
and the expiration month and year
west prairie
just blur out everything except the age and a sticky note with your discord name on it
vocal grotto
I suppose there are some children who are mature enough to handle this stuff, but such cases are rare
west prairie
to prove it was your photo
golden kayak
@west prairie Sadly, there are some 13-15 year olds who can really do some quality stuff.
west prairie
...thats true
golden kayak
Lol im over 16 but I look like 12 so NO
hollow shell
Popo was like 13 when he became a dev lmao
vocal grotto
But most people at age 13-16 are not good creators
Keyword: most
I suspect a lot of suggestions only exist because they want to see something of their work in a prestigious project-base (i.e. Calamity)
golden kayak
Haven't actually thought of it.
hollow shell
Okay another new idea
which I jokingly suggested a few hours ago but it could work
Specific items are banned from #suggestions-voting
but we make a new channel, like #new_item_suggestions or something
which is what it says on the tin
The star req is greatly increased in that channel
Simpler suggestions don't get drowned out
and the creative outlet still exists
golden kayak
Like 150 stars?
hollow shell
yeah
terse sundial
maybe
vocal grotto
To add onto this, why not channels for specific suggestions, such as for items, balancing, or the server
ect.
golden kayak
Isn't that too complicated?
golden kayak
Yeah I think just asking for specific item in progression or of certain type is enough.
civic pond
or maybe just a seperate one for weapons
hollow shell
Server suggestions could get their own channel considering they don't really have a specified method of delivery, unlike mod suggestions
but
yeah, too many channels
golden kayak
Like "make us pre-boss sword" works.
vocal grotto
Yeah
hollow shell
A terrible suggestions but it works 
civic pond
😔
golden kayak
Uhh i do not know about that.
I still think that its easier to pick like some people and allow only them to make this type of suggestions in DM to someone.
And simplify for garbage suggestors like myself
Flamethrower
civic pond
still sounds complicated to me
golden kayak
New role that is given to only a few people is not that complicated.
terse sundial
^
terse sundial
we don't want that
civic pond
no thats not it
terse sundial
suggestions doesn't need to be flooded
civic pond
we discussed this before that a role like that would have a negative effect
vocal grotto
^
vocal grotto
Not really suggestions
vocal grotto
We're more discussing potential solutions
civic pond
but its better than doing literally nothing
terse sundial
i don't know what to do about this
vocal grotto
Well, no matter what, sacrifices are going to be made
civic pond
ok i just want to make sure of something
golden kayak
Ik about effect of the role and trying to obtain it
But just taking really best suggestors and making the role unobtainable (or just allow these 5 people to do that w/o role)
civic pond
whats the goal here again?
hollow shell
Filter out the spew of specific item suggestions
civic pond
ok.
hollow shell
Whether that be through banning or harsher restrictions or a new system of some sort, etc
terse sundial
we were discussing the idea of a server, but we don't have the staff for that nor the time
hollow shell
I'm for banning but BlackHand has arguments
civic pond
banning?
golden kayak
Spew of Unneeded and boring and etc items?
vocal grotto
Banning certain suggestions
hollow shell
Disallowing, rather.
civic pond
ah i see.
terse sundial
disallowing specific wep/accessory suggestions
civic pond
I dont think banning them all together is a good way to go about this..
vocal grotto
And make sure it's abundantly clear to the suggestors what is illegal
sand umbra
Can we collectively agree to ban exo-weapon suggestions though--
hollow shell
They already are
vocal grotto
Yes
hollow shell
kinda
civic pond
who am i kidding
sand umbra
golden kayak
But the argument is
What about this 0.1% of cool items?
civic pond
thomas im gonna go get that template i had
terse sundial
should include rivs also
civic pond
sand umbra
smh I actually try with my RIVs that I never put in suggestions smh
hollow shell
Ok, question
Who makes and/or made good specific item suggestions
consistently
besides BlackHand
hollow shell
His are okay, yeah
vocal grotto
Logical reasoning for the idea's existence, Balanced, and overall causes minimal conflicts
civic pond
tbf one problem i wanna solve
sand umbra
I wanna believe my suggestions are good but I probably make them way too specific and/or confusing.
civic pond
is bias towards suggestions with sprites
vocal grotto
I'm a bad judge as to how good my suggestions are tbh
vocal grotto
Increase star count needed if a sprite is present
hollow shell
That was a problem a long while ago when we had a wave of suggestion sprites
they're not as rampant anymore
civic pond
thats fair.
hollow shell
(because DRONES left)
civic pond
dunno who that was, but its probably for the best
golden kayak
My suggestions are worse then they may and should be imo.
civic pond
sand umbra
See I'm a bad judge as to whether my suggs are good because I have a surprisingly high bias towards "my work sucks". I judge myself by very high standards--
hollow shell
Decent spriter, decent suggester, controversial figure
golden kayak
@vocal grotto I asked for that
queen sail
Rov tbf at least the bike guy is gone
sand umbra
I do at the least try to think through them before posting them.
vocal grotto
Yeah, I only suggest if I think it'll help the game
hollow shell
don't underestimate bike guy
golden kayak
^^
hollow shell
he went on hiatus for like two years to resuggest the bike
void kelp
god
civic pond
ok here's a thought (most likely a shitty one)
vocal grotto
Oh, I actually made a meme mod for that lol
Replace minecarts with an MS Paint bike sprite
civic pond
What if a suggestion HAS to be discussed here before being posted
void kelp
I’ve been trying to keep my suggestions nowadays to just QoL
sand umbra
vocal grotto
It was a fucking riot on the nohit server lol
vocal grotto
But I digress
sand umbra
Well anyway.
I kinda stopped suggesting items after the Sunlight Streamline because I realized items don't normally get in.
Now I just point out issues with bosses and suggest ways to fix 'em instead. o3o
vocal grotto
Same
sand umbra
And other QoL/balancing stuff that I think would help the mod improve to be even more outstanding than it already is.
vocal grotto
I'm currently more focused on improving suggestions tbh
I noticed a ton of wonderful ideas get drowned, and it alarmed me
sand umbra
Besides, I have CCC to quench my insatiable hunger for more things to absolutely mutilate bossses with with hahaues--
golden kayak
I actually still try to suggest items for subclasses if they do not have a weapon for certain spot in progression. But there are not much.
civic pond
ok
this is how i see most weapon suggestions
"Edgy/cool pun name"
"ludicrous damage"
"usually post devourer just cause"
"sometimes have no (why) reason at all or, ADD WEAPON BECAUSE THERE ISN'T ONE YET"
"add low quality sprite for EXTRA stars."
sand umbra
Still seems about right.
void kelp
one of the reasons is also “reference lol”
civic pond
ah yes
vocal grotto
But occasionally, you'll find a truly impeccable weapon idea... after scrolling through around 300 mediocre ones at best
void kelp
does the “don’t” doc have a “please stop suggesting things it’s because it’s popular” Blaise
**clause
civic pond
bandwagons are kinda hard to stop
vocal grotto
Well, I doubt those who make the bad suggestions actually read the doc
hollow shell
That's already banned
vocal grotto
References because why not are a nono
golden kayak
If "All weapon suggestions" are "1" then "1-most" = interesting thing from one of the points of view that could be simplified most of the time.
That is why it should work.
hollow shell
void kelp
yeah
civic pond
most of the time its "add weapon because its not in game yet"
golden kayak
We have Za Warudo reference already btw
vocal grotto
Oh yeah, the guy who suggested a fucking timestopping item.
civic pond
sand umbra
"add this totally balanced but completely OP weapon because my uwu-sama senpai warframe ultra border brothers z reference doesn't exist yet o3o"
void kelp
pay $50
vocal grotto
I think that there should be more consideration as to how much work is needed to create the thing too
sand umbra
I'll take my leave now--
civic pond
hahayes
void kelp
Thomas u cool
vocal grotto
I mean, stopping time sounds like a fucking nightmare to program
golden kayak
Added border
sand umbra
You say that but realistically it's a matter of storing everything's past velocity in an array, holding those values and keeping their corresponding current values at 0 for XYZ seconds, and then re-applying those values when time resumes.
golden kayak
@vocal grotto who cares when you can just suggest it with sprite and it will hit 90?
sand umbra
Or at least on a fundamental level.
hollow shell
This is Terraria we're talking about
sand umbra
Fair enough.
hollow shell
Trying to do that would break everything
sand umbra
This is Terraria we're talking about, it's never as simple as it would be anywhere else.
sand umbra
Every day I become more and more excited about the prospect of JE bringing a codebase overhaul--
west prairie
to be fair, sometimes i just suggest stuff cause it would be cool
storm weaver? nimbus staff that also shoots lightning
is it necessary?
no, probably not
but it's just thematically appropriate and... well... neat!
golden kayak
Termi changed his name 👀
radiant meadow
@hollow shell can you also add combining lore items to the doc?
it won't happen. it'd cause fat balance issues.
hollow shell
Yeah
vocal grotto
I made him switch out his pokemon
radiant meadow
okay but I like Dustox iirc
golden kayak
@west prairie For the most part Anubis happened because of this type of thoughts.
vocal grotto
Dustox is underappreciated, but I digress
golden kayak
He was beaten too hard in series.
radiant meadow
you also called it an RIV when it clearly wasn't one 
vocal grotto
I did some searching. How the fuck does Mr. Bicycle have over 100 stars?
west prairie
both in technique and in general design
hollow shell
Prolly cuz it was funny
vocal grotto
Honestly, I want to do an experiment
vocal grotto
Make a suggestion without a sprite, wait about 2 weeks, post the same idea, but change the words around a bit, but with a sprite
See the star difference
golden kayak
^
Would have tried for flamethrower even 
Because nobody cares about this subclass tbh
zenith hazel
some people do care
zenith hazel
some tried making pre-boss flamethrowers
as you can tell, none proved to be fruitful so far, to say the least
placid moth
Imagine trying to make subclasses good for the sake of making it good
vocal grotto
looks at Thomas
void kelp
what about helicopter mount guy
radiant meadow
charged dart blaster is decent for deus iirc
zenith hazel
that was an entire movement, not even some people wanting something
golden kayak
Blowpipe subclass
radiant meadow
decent as in outclassed by the empyrean, scorpio, and aerial bane
civic pond
oh yeah i remember that
radiant meadow
vocal grotto
lurker
zenith hazel
you pushed for an obliterator buff broh
civic pond
sand umbra
I mainly just did the research.
And I was far from the only person concerned about it--
A lot of people got way more concerned about it than I did. Either that or memed the fuck out of it.
Which is pretty but that's a topic for another place and time.
golden kayak
@zenith hazel Mine just didn't get even 2/3 of stars iirc despite that there are literally 0 options for that literally almost full playthrough possibility.
That is what i meant by "nobody cares".
civic pond
i dont get whats wrong with subclasses being expanded a bit here and there
zenith hazel
and also because drowned out maybe
golden kayak
Idk
zenith hazel
I thought your sug was pretty good
civic pond
i mean we have a LUDICROUS amount of swords
golden kayak
sand umbra
Swords are the only subclass melee needs because they're the only one that matters.
zenith hazel
it had a clear idea and concept, it was simple enough
sand umbra
vocal grotto
Swords?
zenith hazel
fitting concept at that because desert - sun - flamethrower
sand umbra
You know what, you're right, Swords aren't a subclass.
void kelp
true melee
zenith hazel
it’s a hassle
zenith hazel
probably still can’t touch 90% of scal’s fight
void kelp
Oh wait, some flails are true melee now
civic pond
that makes me ecstatic
golden kayak
I maybe want to even make 2 of these
Like pre-boss for frostburn
And post-scourge for desert
Or vice versa
But that will not happen.
zenith hazel
a pre-boss one that’s good enough to carry you till hive mind tbh
like some victide weapons
golden kayak
Just pre-boss one is fine, yeah
civic pond
flails are true melee weapons that can hit at a REASONABLE RANGE and dont shoot projectiles with no mana cost
sand umbra
Flails are incredibly balanced.
golden kayak
And since we have rarely used Feather, this one will have these in recipe, makes sense to me.
sand umbra
You will see wip flel.
civic pond
👏
vocal grotto
Whip Flails are high IQ
vocal grotto
yes
civic pond
yes.
vocal grotto
sniped
civic pond
sand umbra
Flairon be like "lole"
golden kayak
Lmb macros for whips 👀
sand umbra
Hot take: Ball O' Fugu is high IQ.
civic pond
but seriously whip flails do more damage close up and less damage far away
vocal grotto
Back when Flairon was the melee meta in terraria
golden kayak
Higher than Flaoron smh
civic pond
better than terrablade ngl
zenith hazel
free ticket through 3/4 of hm
vocal grotto
Bubble Gun is
sand umbra
Razorblade Typhoon is good shit.
civic pond
bubblegun hot
golden kayak
Siren has bubble gun between her ...
civic pond
actually fishron probably has the best drop pool in the game progression wise
to me that is
everythings covered
even a mount
sand umbra
I'm still adding those to CCC, I might just rework the way they're obtained a little bit in light of the upcoming Duke rogue drop--
civic pond
you know what i was thinking
sand umbra
go on
sand umbra
bruh
vocal grotto
We already have blue and green fish tits smh
zenith hazel
Dom-
vocal grotto
I'll stop myself there
sand umbra
Also I want to agree with you on Fishron having the best drop pool in the game.
But like.
zenith hazel
jungle...?
sand umbra
Who decided he'd only drop one weapon per kill/bag?
civic pond
mm yes
zenith hazel
redcode
sand umbra
I hate that mechanic with a burning fucking passion, you have no idea--
zenith hazel
oh you’re going mage? would be a shame if I gave you... a flairon
civic pond
😔
ionic flicker
I have seen this topic assesed on the calamity mod main board
But, wouldn't it be great if Ark of the Cosmos got a buff/rework to make it able to spawn something like a explosion that ignores i-frames on true melee hits?
radiant meadow
it doesn't really need that
zenith hazel
true melee post-yharon?
radiant meadow
ark of the cosmos is more focused on the projectiles
powerful true melee hits are reserved for exoblade and ataraxia
ionic flicker
I say that because it's kinda odd that as a melee weapon it's completely reliant on it's projectiles and most other melee weapons of the same tier (Exoblade, ataraxia, dragon pow, etc) have their own special effects on true melee strikes
hollow shell
Maybe it should stay that way so it's unique, distinct from the rest?
golden kayak
Ark is a wand
golden kayak
And isn't it getting a rework?
hollow shell
Not that I'm aware of
ionic flicker
It honestly feels like one
sand umbra
The entire Biome Blade line feels like a series of spell tomes/wands tbh--
ionic flicker
yup
radiant meadow
ark line or biome blade line?
ionic flicker
Sacrifice it to the blood god
zenith hazel
yes
ionic flicker
sand umbra
I say Biome Blade line specifically because the Biome Blade's entire gimmick relies on projectiles
Ark is...less reliant on its projectiles, I believe.
radiant meadow
none of the ark weapons have special true melee effects
sand umbra
thonk
radiant meadow
but neither does anything in the biome blade line
ionic flicker
Ark is useless on melee compared to ataraxia or Exomeme
sand umbra
So they're both reliant on projectiles, got it.
radiant meadow
Ark doesn't really need a buff
golden kayak
Ccc
sand umbra
hahano
sand umbra
I'm tempted to turn the Biome Blade line into a series of spell tomes just because of how it works but at the same time I do feel like the Biome Blade and its line could work well as melee weapons if the concept didn't solely hinge on projectiles.
lost agate
It could get true melee damage but not that much
Wait
No nvm
But i do agree a rework to most of the biome blade line would be interesting
sand umbra
Just. Something to make the Biome Blade and its upgrades not as reliant on projectiles.
I had an idea that would probably be stupidly complicated and not worth the effort, but I could simplify it, probably. 
radiant meadow
biome blade is fine tbh for the first of the line
civic pond
for the first yeah
radiant meadow
although true and omega biome blades could use some spicing up
lost agate
Ye
harsh grove
I'm tempted to turn the Biome Blade line into a series of spell tomes
I tried to imagine more tomes on sticks like the Tome of Infinite Wisdom, but I also remembered the Terra Battle Rod + Box of Countless Lures from Unusacies' Battle Rods
radiant meadow
a pre-ML weapon shouldn't be viable for providence
civic pond
Buff daybreak
As of now daybreak is considerably weak for its tier and is outdone by many other weapons. Its not very viable for crowd control, moonlord, or multiple targets at once. I suggest a plain damage buff to it to at least make it viable for its tier.
ivory heart
And fixed
lavish cloak
Idk if RIV suggestions are even a thing... I mean it sounds cool but eh
sand umbra
mfw there's already an RIV called The Evolution--
lavish cloak
oh shit yeah
terse sundial
if a "buff x item" bandwagon gets started because of this I'm blaming you doge
civic pond
I swear to fuck if i get drowned out by a bandwagon..
didn't we just discuss preventing this
terse sundial
Vanilla balance is neat at all but it's just more work for us testers 
civic pond
okbuddy
sand umbra
Also there was like a 10- to 15-minute conversation about this just now in cala talk--
civic pond
its a minor buff anyways
terse sundial
I see
radiant meadow
tbf daybreak is actually garbage
signal prairie
golden kayak
Finally
radiant meadow
to try and distract people into wasting their solar fragments on daybreak instead of lahzar
zealous ridge
civic pond
golden kayak
@radiant meadow Btw what desicion was made on Fargo's suggestion?
radiant meadow
a decision has not been made yet
terse sundial
we are still working things out
we will let people know here once we do figure it out
golden kayak
queen delta
Conclusion: we now encourage weapon suggestions and discourage balance suggestions
smoky wagon
tired haven
The game was rigged from the start
plucky prairie
i wish there were more random accessories that do neat effects (such as luxor's gift) that arent really limited by what stage in the game you are
but i cant think of any and it's not really great to force creativity
ashen warren
an equipment that you can power up to a certain point by feeding it fuel, and the fuels you can feed it generally last longer the more endgame you get
sounds nice
plucky prairie
sounds kinda similar to the rage meter and adrenaline meter though
ashen warren
like the best fuel you can put into it makes it last for a minute and it only works during bossfights
plucky prairie
although i could be misinterpreting it
ashen warren
I guess
but it doesnt fill up before you can use it
you can use it anytime but you can only put in ten pieces of fuel until it goes empty again
plucky prairie
hmmm
ashen warren
the first fuels would be like demonite or something and it would allow it to work for a very small amount of time
plucky prairie
also for something like that it'd probs be best to add yet another hotkey
ashen warren
ooh yay more hotkeys
plucky prairie
and there are already plenty
ashen warren
just what I needed when I run multiple mods
yeah I guess that's not a very good idea
idk about you but I'd like an upgrade to the cell phone that does something
dunno what it would do though
plucky prairie
hmmm
ashen warren
Alright, I was just thinking a while back:
What if there was an item, akin to armageddon or defiled rune, which made rage and adrenaline do bad things when full. So, perhaps after avoiding enough attacks adrenaline activates automatically when the mode is active, but it slows the player down/reduces damage. Rage on the other hand, would either drastically harm, maybe kill the player or greatly reduce damage/movement when maxed, and cause a debuff when it is high, rather than heart attack.
I don't have a solid reason why I have suggested this, aside from a new challenge, so any feedback as to whether or not this could possibly be enjoyed by anyone would be appreciated.
queen delta
Nah there doesnt need to be punishment for holding back
Rage has less damage than adren but is hard to fill back up and doesnt go stale, and adren goes stale
queen sail
Terry N. Muse would like to know your location
:echbegone:
Tbf rage kind of needs to be reworked imo
Give it different properties than adren so it isn’t just another damage boost
ashen warren
oh yeah punishment is a valid reason i guess
make every attack when rage is enabled permanently reduce any enemy's defense by a certain percentage
but that's helpful,..
the defense of an enemy can only be reduced like every half second though so people dont just get out shroomite digging claws or something
but rage has no dmg boost
so only adrenaline does boosted dmg
and it'll also make it so you have to time adrenaline right after rage
the whole point is to make rage and adrenaline angry
not useful
wdym angry
like harmful at you
why would you make things that are usually buffs harmful at you
as a challenge for people
oh I was talking as a rework in general
i think a rework is also a good idea tbh
the mode would make it so adrenaline is obtained by a hitcounter from bosses
or something idk
avoiding boss attacks should be rewarded
purposely forcing people to want to get hit is stupid
imo at least
imagine being a nohitter tho, you couldn't get hit so you'd have to suffer from success
lole
and rage would basically be a cap on how much damage you could take in a lifetime before you get killed/drastically damaged/debuffed
honestly i like the rage idea a lot more than making adrenaline all backwards like that
i'm thinking the bad adrenaline would be like exhaustion and the bad rage would be like crippling/critical injury
plucky prairie
high blood pressure lmao
ashen warren
now the problem with this mode is it has no benefit for the player yet, and that's where i need help
gaunt gazelle
franswal, what is this "one" weapon thats viable for provi?
gaunt gazelle
has he never tried the coldheart icicle?
golden kayak
It is not rogue.
gaunt gazelle
ah i see, in the beginning of his why he says only one viable weapon but he meant rogue
quiet abyss
"Pre-reset items"? "Old gear"?
You'll need to elaborate on what exactly do those mean.
Also, you are aware that Draedon is planned to be fought before SCal, right?
gaunt tiger
@quiet abyss no I didn't know that, and where would you like me to elaborate?
quiet abyss
What exactly do you mean by "pre-reset items"
As well as "old gear"
Those ain't terms for any kind of calamity items/gear afaik
gaunt tiger
so the idea I pose is basically that at some point in the game (probably post scal) the player can only progress to further content by resetting
this would reduce:
the dr and defense of armors, and remove certain set bonuses
the damage/crit of weapons, and lower lifesteal
the movespeed and flighttime of the player
reforge effectiveness of pre-reset items
player health and mana
Using this as a template, the mod could progress in a few ways; either a new game+ vibe, or bigger bosses not needing to be so crazy op
maybe it could also generate new terrain to replenish dwindling resources?
ashen warren
:ech:
golden kayak
Just play DAD
queen delta
Oh cool we turning this mod into a clicking-esque style game
quiet abyss
What is the point of this "resetting" system, may I ask?
Not only does this sound unnecssary and complex to make, it sounds hellish to balance
golden kayak
@queen delta NG+ is not from clickers.
zenith hazel
there's still shit after scal
jovial spire
lots of it
quiet abyss
Why even force players to reset their gear in order to proceed?
Forcing new game+ is a complete waste of time in a game like Terraria.
This is a sandbox game, not a full on rpg
zenith hazel
sure, let's fight yharim with auric tesla that has no revives because why not?
golden kayak
gaunt tiger
@quiet abyss I genuinely cannot imagine a way to make more mechanically interesting bosses than scal with the power/speed the player has in the end game
it might allow devs to make more creative content?
I'll spreadsheet all item balance if it would persuade?
and "reset" is a pretty loaded term, I meant like a setback rather than complete obsolescence
quiet abyss
Just because you cannot, doesn't mean we can't
queen delta
This system just wont ever work out in terraria
quiet abyss
SCal may be tough, but making bosses harder than her while still being fair is definitely possible.
zenith hazel
the devs are trying to make the final 4 unique too
quiet abyss
^
queen delta
Yeah just add more projectiles 
zenith hazel
as far as we know, draedon and co. won't be a full on bullet hell
gaunt tiger
the game already has mechanics post ML that try to nerf the player. this is a logical progression of this, and an ideal that I had to suggest
quiet abyss
The other bosses will be unique in their own ways
queen delta
Like what?
gaunt tiger
so much so that the game instas you in various situations, and already guts your move/flight speed
queen delta
All i know of is summoner multiclass nerf
zenith hazel
the only thing that probably even slightly resembles a hinderance post-ml is probably a nerfed flight time due to seraph tracers early on
but that has more benefits than downsides due to saving up an inventory slot
quiet abyss
"Every fight"
jovial spire
Only one i can think of is DoG
zenith hazel
you get pretty much 2 slots for free post-ml
quiet abyss
That's not "nerfing" the player
zenith hazel
if anything, the game is making you stronger to prepare for the asinine fights forward
gaunt tiger
boss acceleration matching the player's or exceeding it
quiet abyss
Restricting players to fighting bosses in a certain way does not = nerfs
night cradle
^
zenith hazel
post-ml is an entirely different field due to the difficulty
quiet abyss
They're restrictions, not nerfing players
gaunt tiger
you made the player too powerful and had to nerf them to make the game fair, I'm suggesting a blanketed version of this that actually makes it into a new progression stage
zenith hazel
if provi didn't have the nerfed flight time, her cocoon phase would be cheesed pretty easily
gaunt tiger
yeah no shit
queen delta
quiet abyss
What? You do realize that the post-ml bosses without any gimmicks whatsoever still are fair game to players right?
zenith hazel
restrictions give bosses a sense of fairness
quiet abyss
Signus, Polterghast etc.
Signus doesn't have any gimmicks, and yet people still find him tough.
gaunt tiger
they're fair bosses, and fun bosses- you're looking at the wrong bits of my sentences
queen delta
well polter isnt fair but
quiet abyss
Perhaps I am, but the bosses that do have gimmicks don't do it "to make it fair"
They do it to challenge players
Restrictions, when used correctly can make the fight mroe intersting while also allowing certain fights to maintain their core aspects
gaunt tiger
power escalation is a problem all the same, and so is the max move speed
the player can move far too fast for bosses to be fair to players not abusing this, or else you get FTL projectiles hitting you from off screen
^this is a hypothetical
are you going to lock the player in with firenadoes for all the fights
or scal boxes?
quiet abyss
Power escalation in terraria modding is only a problem if you're talking about playing with other content mods, which you shouldn't be doing in the first place.
If there's power escalation in a mod, but the mod is balanced around that power escalation, then why try to fix it when it's going to take a tremendous amount of effort and end up being unnecessary?
Calamity is aimed to be a mod that goes further than what vanilla offers and expands things in its own ways
queen delta
^
If you’re ever playing with multiple content mods, just be aware that balancing goes oit the window
golden kayak
@gaunt tiger You can fight outside of these to get fair trade
Enrage for moving space.
quiet abyss
It's why calamity has a high power level gap; It's to allow players to clearly notice their progress in power.
If there's not so much differences between each item tiers, then it wouldn't make as much of an impact as it does now.
I can understand why you don't like calamity's power gap, tbf
But forcing a "new game+" feature is not the right way to solve it.
golden kayak
It has some spikes sometimes tho, but it is fine ^
gaunt tiger
k but if the next boss enforces move/damage/defence penalties on the player, it had BETTER drop an item called "the velvet book" that does something stupid
pin this shit lol
quiet abyss
...What even is the point of saying that?
That's not funny, and not contributing anything to our current discussion.
Anyways, I feel that this discussion would just go on and on and we all would just be going in circles discussing about it.
So we all should just drop it.
gaunt tiger
yes, that was my point- k as in I'll concede the point
quiet abyss
You could've conceded in a better manner, but alright.
queen delta
Just a reminder that no one liked ragnarok’s dps caps
west prairie
am i weird for liking the idea of an unholy core armor set enough to sprite it
the point about daedalus being the rogue's only armor set until post plantera is v valid
viscid tiger
How would a server change requesting that people in #multiplayer-looking-to-play specified their location and possibly difficulty/mods when posting be received?
Instead of just "anyone want to play"
golden kayak
We will get rogue update, I think, so no need for that.
But I would love to see your sprite tbh.
west prairie
last time i used the palette it was... ok i guess
unholy cores are leaving so much on the table honestly
golden kayak
What is description for this emblem?
west prairie
it was part of my throwing accessory binge -- made fireballs show up offscreen to attack enemies on rogue weapon hits
golden kayak
Hm, Brimstone Starfury?
I would love to see velocity upgrade for rogue's early game.
But even after thinking for some time I could not come up with design of such an accessory.
distant gyro
@civic gust hmmm
I never found Subphase 4 to have cheap snipes. If there's a subphase with telesniping problems, it's sub7
void kelp
the margin for error is really small and you can get telefragged really easily yeah
tawny tide
its not too much of an issue on regular revengeance playthroughs but i can only imagine how bad it is for nohits and all that
distant gyro
I find it to be the second easiest subphase to nohit in death mode, and the easiest of phase 1
zenith hazel
sub4 yharon is easy/hard
distant gyro
Many nohitters also find sub4 to be easy