I guess it would. You could also swap Dual Hook out for it.
#suggestions-discussion
ruby cobalt
lusty idol
Yeah, I just needed a filler hook, so I put in Dual Hook. 
I'll swap it.
ruby cobalt
@sick crag
- ?
- No Shadowspec.
- No post-SCal items.
sick crag
Ah
hollow shell
(that's your cue to delete it or edit it)
radiant meadow
perhaps make it an auric-tier type recipe with abyssal warhammer, perennial hammer, flamebeak hampick, and uelibloom hammer
that is if perennial and uelibloom sets have hammers
ruby cobalt
¯_(ツ)_/¯
A warning was made, if it comes up again in the same state - that's a warn.
hollow shell
Funnily similar to Ibby's suggestion from yesterday
but good nonetheless, definitely seems more balanced and thought out
lunar berry
yeah that was my inspiration
hollow shell
@austere orchid Jesus H Christ if Phosphorescence isn't the biggest suggestion I've ever seen. The whole thing literally can't fit onto my screen all at once, had to take two screengrabs and edit them together in order to deliver it
Gratz on 50 stars tho
tulip parcel
Nanites need more uses.
Besides nanotechnology, flask of nanites and nanobullets
they're a cool material that's never used
How overpowered would a short range teleport be?
I'm thinking of an accessory where you can "dash" to the left or right and translocate a set distance away, your body shifting from one spot to another a la Monsoon
hollow shell
I think there was a suggestion like that in the past
tulip parcel
was there?
hollow shell
Didn't get accepted, if there was, so you can go right ahead
tulip parcel
okay. My thought was that it moves you from one location to the other instantly, rather than dashing
maybe having a two second cd
maybe also having a .5s period of invulnerability after teleport
it might be more clear once I write it up
empty rose
So it’s a pocket teleporter in fact
tulip parcel
Basically. Gimme a second...
empty rose
Ok
tulip parcel
What I'm thinking is, the Cyborg only shows up once plantera is defeated
So should an item likes give more benefits than a short range teleport and a brief period of invulnerability at that stage of the game? I think so
empty rose
That seem legit
heady comet
Yeth
tulip parcel
what about the counter scarf?
ashen warren
that's used up until valor, further than that for some people
tulip parcel
hmm
what makes more sense for a "techno-teleport" to use in its crafting
the spirit generator and the scarf
or the spirit generator and the mana overloader
spirit generator is just a neat accessory that gets left behind, plus it's a "generator" so I wanna use it
I guess maybe the scarf makes more sense? It'd make an item that's a reference to revengeance gated behind -playing- in revengeance mode
empty rose
Use the scarf, it seem logic for me
glossy falcon
I like the name Rod of Discord better
tulip parcel
ayyy someone else sees that the generator is unloved
echo mica
something
empty rose
At least, you sayed somethings here
neon panther
“Didn’t get accepted, if there was” aw rip my Signus cloak thing
empty rose
At least you tried
tulip parcel
Lorentz Generator
Spirit Generator + Counter Scarf + 500 Nanites + 250 Martian Conduit Plating
+10% Movement Speed
+2 Defense
Whenever you hit an enemy you will gain a random buff. These buffs boost defense, damage or life regen.
Tap twice to shift your body in any direction. While your body is reforming, you are invulnerable.
If an enemy is hit by your body you will be granted to damage, speed and crit chance for a short time.
After this effect is used you must wait 12 seconds before you can shift again.
How does this look?
lunar berry
counter scarf?
neon panther
counter scarf doesn’t really make sense for a tech thing ngl
tulip parcel
How about mana overloader? I more used it for the mechanical aspect
lunar berry
mana overloader doesn’t really work for that
tulip parcel
what would be a good techy thing then
neon panther
spirit generator is a summon accessory too so it doesn’t really seem related
being tech-related doesn’t make it related to a teleport accessory
tulip parcel
btw I need to clarify something uh
what I had envisioned for this was
your body moves first, and the camera moves with it
the head moves second
the legs move last
it's not all at once
it's like your body comes apart to move over
like monsoon
neon panther
as cool as that might be it seems like just extra unnecessary work
lunar berry
yeah
tulip parcel
if not that, maybe you just transform into a cloud of nanites?
neon panther
I really don’t know how much is possible with Terraria-code and what Fabsol is even willing to code, but maybe
neon panther
yes but that was from the main code source itself
working outside with mods is harder iirc
but back to the point, it could work
I would just suggest thinking of more related materials
tulip parcel
the martian conduit plating+nanites are 1:1 what the... whatsit...
nanotech
they're 1:1 what the nanotech uses in terms of "technology" materials
nanotech also uses phantoplasm and the two post-dog moon materials
I intend for this to be a post-plantera item
neon panther
your point beinggg...?
neon panther
ah okay
browse vanilla and calamity wikis for related materials
that’s what I do when I can’t think of anything to add to a recipe
tulip parcel
I just did and
well actually not "I just did"
I did that for a solid ten minutes but I couldn't find something that made sense
or that wasn't also used in some other accessory's recipe
shadow prism
Divine Impulse
Fires a barrage of Exo Bullets to destroy your enemies
Enemy hits cause a storm of bullets to rain down
Has a 10% chance to fire a homing bubble that explodes into a shower of bullets
90% chance to not consume ammo
Made from exo materials + 1 disseminator + 1 minigun + 1 shredder + 1 vortexpopper + 1 seadragon at a Draedon’s forge
(Exo gun) Converts all bullets to Exo Bullets, these bullets home, ignore i frames, go through blocks and inflict a variety of debuffs. It fires incredibly rapidly and hitting an enemy causes a storm of your chosen bullets to rain down onto the enemy like conclave crossfire. Has a 10% chance to fire a homing bubble that explodes into a shower of the chosen bullet on contact with a block or enemy.
Reason:
exo gun
exo gun
tulip parcel
I’m just gonna let it go and sleep
tulip parcel
Maybe tomorrow I’ll think of something better
neon panther
I couldn’t find anything looking at the calamity list of items
should I re-post this, it got good support and it’s one of my fav suggestions
your thing reminded me of it :p
ruby cobalt
But was it sent to dev server?
shadow prism
5mil vehemence shot 
neon panther
it got 70 stars but it doesn’t have a check
ruby cobalt
Sure, repost it.
neon panther
I’m on mobile atm and can’t copy-paste through discord search, I’ll just do it tomorrow
rich wagon
Does a ✅ mean that it's being considered Or it will be added Or something else completely
ruby cobalt
Any of the check marks means they were forwarded to dev server.
That's it, there's nothing more to it.
tulip parcel
A check means the devs see it
A finish flag means it will 100% be added
Which is muuuuch rarer
ruby cobalt
They can look at it and ignore it completely
tulip parcel
Exactly
ruby cobalt
There's no way to know what happened to it.
tulip parcel
Which kinda sucks tbh
austere orchid
@hollow shell I apologise. 
sleek wigeon
Elemental hook already exists. Its called the lunar hook
thats the elemental tier hook
@lusty idol
tired haven
spark flax
so apparently we're all suggesting hooks today
The Devourer of Hooks
It's not over yet, kid!
Jump or press the hook key to rapidly launch yourself in the direction of the hook, even if not hooked to anything
After using this you will not be able to use the hook again for a few seconds
Creates godslayer explosions on tile impact
What It Does: A hook with faster reach and hook speed than the Lunar Hook, but with only one hook instead of four. However, dispelling the hook before it hooks onto a surface will dispel it early and essentially cause a dash in whatever direction the hook was thrown in. This ability goes on a cooldown for three seconds after using it and does not refresh flight time, to prevent infinite flight and maneuverability.
In addition, if the hook impacts a platform, it causes a large-ranged explosion that does true damage and inflicts God Slayer Inferno to any in range.
How It's Made: 1 Lunar Hook + 3 Armored Shell + 5 Cosmilite Bars @ Draedon's Forge
Why it should be added: Calamity lacks any hooks, which stands out primarily in its exclusive post-moonlord portion of the game, as you'll be using the Lunar Hook if anything. While they are used for refreshing flight times against some bosses, typically the movement option additions are outclassed by your flight and dash at that point.
Enter the Devourer of Hooks! Getting around the weakness of hooks needing to latch to something, it can effectively give an omnidirectional dash when used correctly, letting you quickly avoid things such as Yharon's charges. Plus, if you're a summoner who wish you had more ways to help out in fights, it can even deal out damage with smart use. Plus, it doesn't make the Lunar Hook completely irrelevant, as it takes skill to use without accidentally dashing into enemies and it can only have one hook out at once vs. four.
thoughts?
ashen warren
Why not just a hyperspeed single hook and have a separate ball & chain hook or something similar?
wicked swift
That name is hilarious
spark flax
good point
think i should cut out the godslayer explosion part and just focus on the hook-dash thing?
austere orchid
lmfao what
ashen warren
And then a ball & chain that has the pull towards the hook thing
austere orchid
is today “hook appreciation day” or something
austere orchid
oh dear god.
ashen warren
Cause both have really good uses
austere orchid
no.
spark flax
16th November, National Hook Day
wicked swift
16th of november will now forever be known as "hook appreciation day"
spark flax
but ye i might go work on that in a bit! for now, i gotta go get some food, but i'll post them when i get back
austere orchid
i will slaughter you all.
spark flax
WAIT I'VE GOT IT
FOR THE HOOK DASH ONE
IT CAN BE CEASELESS VOID THEMED WITH THE FLAVOR THAT THE MINI-CEASELESS VOID AT THE END OF THE HOOK PULLING YOU IN GIVING YOU THE HOOKDASH
I'M A GENIUS
EXPECT WRITEUP SHORTLY
austere orchid
goddamnit my Phosphoresce idea is better than a whole fucking day dedicated to hooks.
wicked swift
I don't see the problem
ashen warren
If you really want to nitpick the void is worse if it breaks the container
austere orchid
ashen warren
Your spear suggestion is neat I guess but it already has 50 stars i.e no need to talk about it
austere orchid
just pointing out a hook appreciation day is off the hook now. 
ashen warren
However a hook-dash would be super nice
ashen warren
Or even just a strong single hook
austere orchid
quiet, crab.
spark flax
no need to be rude, phant.
Ceaseless Hook
The power of the void compels you!
Launches you in the direction of the hook shortly after throwing (this does not reset your flight time)
After using this you will not be able to use it again for a few seconds
What It Does: Throws a short-ranged hook with a mini-Ceaseless Void on the end. After the hook reaches its maximum reach (takes roughly half a second to do so) or grapples a block/platform/etc. the mini-void at the end explodes into a mini void portal for a second (solely visual effect) and launches the player in the direction of the hook. After using this, the player will gain the Ceaseless Hook Cooldown debuff for three seconds, which prevents you from throwing any hooks during that time.
How It's Made: 1 Grappling Hook + 3 Dark Plasma + 8 Cosmilite Bars @ Draedon's Forge
Why it should be added: Calamity currently adds no hooks, which becomes especially clear in its signature post-moonlord section of the game. This concept, however, doesn't quite act like other hooks - it essentially gives an omnidirectional dash (albeit one that requires skill and timing to use), which helps mitigate the main problems hooks have in post-moonlord: being overshadowed by the maneuverability of your wings and dash.
Having an omni-dash in the form of the Ceaseless Hook would let players dodge things like Yharon's charges that horizontal-only dashes might fail to achieve, amongst others, saving one from having to use something like the Bundle of Balloons, while not entirely overshadowing clandestine hooks such as the Lunar Hook as it's much more difficult to refresh flight time with it.
thoughts?
wicked swift
Put in #suggestions-voting imo
spark flax
i like putting my stuff here first so i can get feedback on ways to improve, etc.
that is what this chat is for, after all.
and i'll post it in suggestions in another.... oh, let's say 14 hours or so, when more people are online.
wicked swift
yes, I know, but I really like that suggestion
spark flax
why thank you ❤
wicked swift
Make hook day a real thing
spark flax
it'll still be 16th november in america when i post it to the chat, so it will technically still be part of Hook Appreciation Day
wicked swift
I'll try to give it a star on the 17th, because I won't be online that late (in my timezone)
spark flax
i live in australia rn so technically i'll be posting it on the 17th here too, but such is timing suggestions for the most likes~
ancient dragon
Hfrgfhrgh that's a really cool hook idea.
I also like the 'Hook Hook' since it reminds me of Kled's ability. Heck, it could even pull you towards bosses since you can't pull them to you.
It sounds like a wonderful gap-closer for true melee-types.
ashen warren
Latch onto SCal and hope your black belt dodges are plentiful
proven tide
o h n o
worthy fiber
@ruby cobalt the thing
ashen warren
wicked swift
what happened?
ancient dragon
Meme suggestion.
wicked swift
What was it, I missed it
frosty kindle
meme suggestion for LORDE shortly after being warned for doing similar in other channels. Now move on.
austere orchid
@spark flax “quiet, crab.” was a joke 
sturdy latch
Just get apotheosis and friends for the lorde 
Also, should the last prism upgrade be a bit more expensive @earnest raptor ?
marsh gust
if the yharims crystal considered a legendary, then it wouldnt be an expert item anymore?
sturdy latch
Leviathan has literally killed the devourer of gods with last prism and I think a post-DoG upgrade would be the perfect recipe
Yharim’s crystal is really fucking powerful
So I guess it deserves that absurd drop rate
marsh gust
tbf you get it at yharon.. so the only boss left is SCal.
ancient dragon
Changing the 'classification' is pretty minute and pointless unless you explicitly mean that it should be locked to Rev+.
sturdy latch
I think it should be revengeance-exclusive
ancient dragon
Then edit your post to clarify and give it good-enough reasoning without having to resort to reading it here.
sturdy latch
Thanks
earnest raptor
@sturdy latch it's enough.
@sturdy latch it's enough.
Prismatic Gun supposed as weapon for oneshotting enemies and some bosses.
earnest raptor
It's considered more as exotic variant of prismy, that upgrade.
ashen warren
your not really meant to fly over those nadoes
quiet abyss
"Trying to avoid the massive Infernadoes that Yharon spawns in (by flying up and over them) requires you to fly close to the edge of Space, where the player could accidentally enrage Yharon despite never leaving the arena"
This is not true
If you manage the infernado spawn points correctly, you don't even have to fly up close to space
marsh gust
tbf you could use the alicorn mount to outrun the flarenadoes, and trigger them at the top of your arena. so you can go under them
thats how i do it anyways
tired haven
I just put them at edges of arena (close to rainbow ones)
round falcon
infernainbow
raw patio
I guess I just suck at Yharon 
marsh gust
the boss guide is always there to help 😄
@wise topaz discuss here instead
not in #suggestions-voting
it would be preferable if you remove what you just sent in suggestions as well
marsh gust
that's fine :3
wise topaz
Its the release of Lets GO Pokemon today and my Switch Charger decided to do a runner. At least I have Terraria on PC if things go bad
ruby cobalt
Even more furniture, huh.
neon panther
the only furniture I want is a Yharon plushie
sinful violet
changed a few things
this should help clear up some of the "boss suggestions/new boss" confusion
worthy fiber
Unpin the older rules
worthy fiber
O
neon panther
@raw patio dont talk in there >;c
sinful violet
raw patio
Ohsdffgasdhjkl shit sorry LOL
sinful violet
all good
ruby cobalt
Ye, please don't do that, thank you.
raw patio
Had a brain fart :p
worthy fiber
Old legendary scaling suggestion again 
heady comet
again
worthy fiber
For god knows how many times
Like people don't consider why it was removed in the first place
sleek wigeon
Uh
hollow shell
Yay updated rules
sinful violet
you all should too
sleek wigeon
apotheosis
hollow shell
also RIP Tighe
sinful violet
eat worms
sleek wigeon
I have
sinful violet
oh
sleek wigeon
I am the current leading member of the cult of terry
hollow shell
besides Terry
sleek wigeon
of course
tired haven
Terry isn't member of his own cult (he is leader smh) so
devout seal
What do the blue checkmarks mean
ruby cobalt
Suggestion like this was already sent some time ago.
aka "you can stop reposting this, we saw it already"
austere orchid
What does the green checkmark mean, again?
I have reminiscences but I can't quite recall it.
sleek wigeon
It got sent to the dev server
Due to getting 50 stars
And checkered flag means its offically gotten into the game
ruby cobalt
uhhh pins
empty rose
ruby cobalt
Yes, the 🏁
austere orchid
I mistook it for a ✅ + 🚩.
ruby cobalt
austere orchid
empty rose
tulip parcel
What would people think of an accessory that allows you to have a 50% chance to automatically grab any consumable throwing weapon after use?
My idea was slime, Yoyo string and maybe souls of light
And how it’d work is, it adds a string to every projectile you throw, and after it hits a target or a block, there’s a chance it will come back to you immediately rather than being dropped on the ground or consumed
tulip parcel
Pretty much, the idea is to make consumable throwing weapons less costly
tired jewel
@quick sandal Legendary weapons being usable at any point in the game just makes it so you don't have to grind for anything else tho
raw patio
^
tulip parcel
Yeah also
raw patio
Legendary weapons (to me, anyways) are just collectables or something you get if you're lucky
empty rose
well, if you want to use it at anytimes, name your player with creator name
tired jewel
I honestly don't like the suggestion mostly because it eliminates the part where u suffer grinding for items grinding
empty rose
I agree that hurt a lot sometimes
hearty yew
@sinful violet You should probably clarify whether it's JUST shadow spec bars themselves or whether it's also Calamitous Essence.
@tulip parcel I'm glad you use the term dominant strategy. Calamity is riddled with it and it's something I wish to see improved. To be fair, the vanilla game is also riddled with it (full damage ranged builds with Daedalus stormbow, etc.)
tulip parcel
Yeah. It’s better to improve the options that all classes have than to let “the meta” fester. When my friend found the halibut cannon they were rightfully excited, but then they were disappointed when they found out there wasn’t much better than it.
The result is being stuck with the same weapon, which isn’t fun.
hearty yew
They can always put it down.
sinful violet
sure ozz
hearty yew
I'm aware that's brushing the issue under the table
sinful violet
though we'd probably still not use it
hearty yew
But it is true. Nobody said they had to use halibut cannon
ok, mrrp
I just wanted that to be clear
The dominant strategy in calamity right now is naming yourself Sam and using the murasama for the whole game
Assuming no character name abuse, the other option is the murasama + victide armor glitch, which should provide more dps than most weapons until about ML
Then there's halibut cannon, which thankfully is getting nerfed
Yes but you can't GET lol
Unless you've had it from a previous world
I'm assuming you're starting from scratch with nothing
alpine copper
Just joking
alpine copper
But theres no victory on killing scal without dying a lot first
But most of the time a dominant strategy is also a cheesing strategy isnt it?
hearty yew
In most cases yes, because some form of cheese exists
tulip parcel
Multiplayer could be considered a kind of cheese
Having multiple lives makes bosses a little easier
empty rose
But multiplayer don't really work i think 
mighty mica
except expert+ It just gets longer and longer the more players you have
tulip parcel
Yeah
empty rose
yup
tulip parcel
I just like having a battlefield covered in tombstones in multiplayer
We’ve got an arena that’s a series of platforms
And all of them have a ton of graves on top
empty rose
like smash bros?
tulip parcel
Kinda yeah
Sticky Tether
“This shouldn’t work”
3 “String” Accesories + 50 gel @ Loom
Consumable Throwing Weapons have a sizable chance to return to the user after hitting an enemy or a tile.
low hedge
feels a bit costly for something that can be lost due to rng
tulip parcel
What do you mean?
jovial spire
Its expensive for soemthing consumable
tulip parcel
No the sticky tether isn’t consumable
jovial spire
You just said con sumabe
tulip parcel
It’s an accessory that modifies your throwing weapons
jovial spire
in that case it shoudl be more expensive, you can get it within the first half hour
Or if your lucky, first 15 minuts.
jovial spire
Nah it should be a bit earlyer than SG
tulip parcel
Hm
tulip parcel
At that rate let’s skip string
jovial spire
yeah good point
tulip parcel
Gel + 20 chains + 2 Aerialite
jovial spire
I was thinking pink gel
jovial spire
Since you get get gel at like 100 a minute at that point
tulip parcel
Plus
jovial spire
oh yeah good point
tulip parcel
You can always get it
jovial spire
brb
ruby cobalt
A'ight, lemme draft up some stupid shit.
Paradigm
Something around WoF-tier accessory.
"You can't escape your fate."
During boss fights your damage is increased by 30% and crit chance by 15%. Bypasses Rev/Death caps.
The catch? Life regen is off, your defense is lowered by 100, "Fate's End" debuff is applied to you upon summoning.
Fate's End
Debuff time varies per boss.
If you don't kill it before the timer runs out - you're instantly killed.
Obviously, time is lower than nohitting DPS limits would allow you due to massive damage increase.
Absolutely unbalanced horseshit, but I had to get it out of my system.
sleek wigeon
Tbh
tulip parcel
Featherweight Tether
Pre-Hardmode Accessory
20 Chains + 2 Aerialite Bars + 30 Slime @ Anvil
Consumable Throwing Weapons have a 50% chance to return to the user after being thrown.
Bloodthirsty Tether
Hardmode Accessory
Featherweight Tether + 5 Essence of Chaos + 3 Demonic Bone Ash
Consumable Throwing Weapons have a 75% chance to return to the user after being thrown.
Throwing weapons slightly home in on enemies.
gusty geode
Not bad
tulip parcel
How does that look?
sleek wigeon
FOOL
Double Damage.
(unlisted)
Outside of bossfights, you do double damage. Regardless of whether a bossfight is active or not, you take double damage.
Bypasses rev caps, of course
ruby cobalt
sleek wigeon
Thoughts, or is it slightly too memey?
empty rose
so, your pic is hat in time, and you create somethings name FOOL, where is snatcher?
ruby cobalt
FOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
sleek wigeon
its actually a reference to something else but dont tell anyone
empty rose
oh ok
sleek wigeon
They look alright
tulip parcel
uhh, what is it a reference to?
sleek wigeon
Something dumb that doesnt matter :P
tulip parcel
Should the bloodthirsty variant give more modifiers? maybe I should increase the crafting cost?
5 essence of chaos is pretty cheap
ruby cobalt
And the "slight homing" is justifying the low cost.
tulip parcel
I suppose
Should the featherweight maybe be acquirable before the second evil boss?
It's not that strong of an effect, I don't think
empty rose
if you have the two item, you will not lose your throwing weapon
ruby cobalt
Just make it the same as ammo consumption.
empty rose
yup
ruby cobalt
I guess for wording reasons.
tulip parcel
consistency's sake, yeah
ruby cobalt
I meant more "in code"-ish.
75%+50% isn't 125% if we go with Terraria's way of handling ammo consumption.
alpine copper
What about refilling your ammo instead of not consuming
frosty kindle
i believe that reduced ammo consumption from the weapon itself is normal, while armor, accessories, buffs etc. act as small multipliers as to avoid a 100% chance to not consume
empty rose
Well, i'm don't make mod so i don't know
alpine copper
A weapon that always consume ammo but has a chance to add ammo instead of consuming it
tulip parcel
so how should I like... rewrite this tehn
tulip parcel
gunzerker was boring as hell sadly
alpine copper
Salvador's kill skill
ruby cobalt
Gunzerker's stupid as fuck.
tulip parcel
zer0 and anarchy mechromancer were my go tos
alpine copper
But sal is a raid boss killer
ruby cobalt
It's the only "class" that can singlehandedly shit on all the raid bosses.
And by that I meant exactly that, it SHITS all over them.
alpine copper
But why stupid
ruby cobalt
Which is why it's stupid.
alpine copper
Because its op
ruby cobalt
Nothing else comes close to it's levels of being broken.
alpine copper
?
ruby cobalt
Yup.
lost agate
Will kill you before normal nohit times
Sees golem, well shit
ruby cobalt
Ye, I kind of don't count the speedkills, so don't expect 3 seconds on DS.
lost agate
ruby cobalt
Golem would be something close to 1:00/1:15
low hedge
@sleek wigeon you sorry fool
frosty kindle
m
sleek wigeon
Yes
sleek wigeon
Considering how true damage is modifiable by any normal means........... not sure
tulip parcel
my thought was that late hardmode or early post-ML there could be an armor set that turns damage you deal into true damage
at the cost of reducing it, a la spectre hood
themed around the lunatic cultist, who I think is just too cool to not include a little
I guess that's a question to ask a dev?
but the intent is that this would let the user mix and match class accessories at the cost of damage
sleek wigeon
Seems kinda bad ngl
tulip parcel
uh?
sleek wigeon
You started nothing
frosty kindle
like, 3 of those "glass cannon" suggestions
ruby cobalt
Yes
sleek wigeon
I suggested fool before the star system, origanally
But holy shit just straight up >double damage? Early game, no defense is not a big price to pay
frail mantle
Yea maybe I should change the recipe a little
tulip parcel
Okay what if it like...
didn't reduce damage
but it didn't increase it either
the "true damage" set
sleek wigeon
I just cant see the benefit
frail mantle
Maybe early hardmode
ruby cobalt
True Damage set is a set that is eternally stuck at its tier.
You can't make it better, you can't make it worse, no matter what you do.
tulip parcel
well I just... I dunno
I wanted a "classless" option
like you could have all sorts of different weapons
sleek wigeon
What if it made all damage benefited from all damage types and accessories?
tulip parcel
that's what true damage -is- ijones
ruby cobalt
It isn't.
sleek wigeon
Uh no
tulip parcel
it isn't?
sleek wigeon
True damage is stuff like dynamite
ruby cobalt
Stacking a shitton of buffs of different types - nope, this ain't what you're thinking of.
True damage is constant and never changes.
tulip parcel
uhh?
no, my thought was to have it so all accessories and such affected all weapons
like
you know how the lunic eye's damage is increased by all modifiers, not just one class?
that's the gist of this, it makes all weapons function like that
sleek wigeon
I was thinking that but a step beyond
So that melee weapons could say
trigger that magic healing item
tulip parcel
mana overloader?
sleek wigeon
Yeah
tulip parcel
right
yeah, this set is something that I want to encourage people to use a variety of weapons and accessories
sorry I wasn't clearer
is that too powerful? should it come with a damage reduction caveat?
sleek wigeon
I mean if it didnt provide any other benefits, i think it could maybe not be op
After all, you would be giving up your armor
It would make it a sorta specialist set
tulip parcel
this should probably offer like
summoner tier defense
make you really frail in exchange for the benefit
sleek wigeon
What if no defense?
tulip parcel
no defense that late into the game?
not sure people would use it if it gave no defense or damage benefits
that is -extremely- high risk
sleek wigeon
Like i said, specialist set
tulip parcel
...okay let me write this up
you think the lunatic cultist idea still works?
or should I maybe base this off of galactica singularities' look
umbral dune
ok, this OP
tulip parcel
Frenetic Savant's Mask
Lunar Cultist Hood + 5 Galacta Singularities + 8 Luminite Bar
0 Defense
Frenetic Savant's Mantle
40 Silk + 5 Galacta Singularities + 16 Luminite Bar
0 Defense
Frenetic Savant's Robes
Lunar Cultist Robe + 5 Galactica Singularities + 12 Luminite Bar
0 Defense
Set Bonus: All weapons have no class.
All weapons recieve benefits from all accessories, and affect all accessories.
All weapon damage is multiplied by all of your damage bonuses.
How does this look?
frail mantle
On second thought, maybe my idea is just pre-moon per tooth necklace
umbral dune
seems kinda cool
but post-moonlord no armor?
This would be good for Armageddon mode
frail mantle
‘Xactly
neon panther
more like a somewhat risk/high reward tbh
defense doesnt even do that much at that point
DR is where it's at
frosty kindle
Defence = poor man's DR
frail mantle
One moment
neon panther
(for providence's thing)
tulip parcel
So you think this is alright, then?
The idea is to encourage creative play, and experimentation with all accessories
like, ijones put forward the idea of using melee weapons with mana overloader
that's the kind of thing I want this set to encourage
lost agate
Why would you use mana overloader with melee if its a mage accesory?
tulip parcel
"Set Bonus: All weapons have no class.
All weapons recieve benefits from all accessories, and affect all accessories.
All weapon damage is multiplied by all of your damage bonuses."
Frenetic Cultist set would make it affect mana overloader
it removes class damage from your weapons and causes all weapons to proc all accessories
lost agate
Still, mana overloader affects mana, how tf do you get low mana with melee?
frail mantle
Hmmmm
lost agate
You know thats op?
tulip parcel
hence why it gives no damage bonus nor defense
lost agate
Still op
frail mantle
0 defense
lost agate
not getting hit
round falcon
Armageddon
it's free farming time
lost agate
Also, defense is useless tbf
tulip parcel
okay... what if each piece reduced damage by 5%
lost agate
Stuff hit too hard for it to matter
tulip parcel
spectre hood does the same thing to compensate for its benefit
uhhh... any thoughts on that?
is 5% enough?
frail mantle
Sounds good
I think you should put it in #suggestions-voting and just edit it as you get more feedback
tulip parcel
There. I also increased it from 5 to 10% after some thought.
alpine garnet
feel like -30% dmg would be a bit too big decrease
considering that 0 defense in itself is pretty large decrease
tulip parcel
You'd think that, but look at the spectre hood
tulip parcel
I'm thinking about this in relation to both the spectre hood as well as the lunic eye
alpine garnet
what % is hood?
tulip parcel
the lunic eye's base damage is 7, yet it does MASSIVE damage
alpine garnet
tulip parcel
at least like
tulip parcel
honestly I should drop the % even lower
tulip parcel
no
the avenger would increase it by however the avenger affects it
it would treat your weapons as being a single class
alpine garnet
phew, that would be op af
ruby cobalt
If the highest takes prevalence - then it works as I think it should.
alpine garnet
5x the normal boosts for each class
ruby cobalt
If all the boosts are summed up - holy shit that's 200% damage increase SOLELY from the buffs and accessories.
tulip parcel
Yeah no, it wouldn't be that way
ruby cobalt
You should probably note that.
tulip parcel
a boost of "20% melee damage" would do the same thing as "20% damage"
yeah I should
sturdy latch
Should you decrease the usage of luminite bars or no?
Because you have to kill around 3 moon lords.
tulip parcel
yeah, I eyed this up with the vanilla armors
past herald
Enemy: i dont have a good name for it so come up with one
It is a small sphere that randomly spawns with 3-6 tentacles. These tentacles act like worms.
You cannot kill the sphere without killing the tentacles.
This enemy spawns in the hallow after DoG.
After killing all of the tentacles, the sphere will grow in size to become about twice the size it was earlier.
It will then shoot homing lasers that deal a medium amount of damage.
sturdy latch
Is this like a no-hitter cheese?
past herald
Whaddya think
sturdy latch
Also do we already have a godly phantasm
fervent zealot
that thing in suggestions is like, anti multiclasser
past herald
whatever
tulip parcel
ssssort of? it's less no hitter cheese and more "experimenter's toy"
fervent zealot
i love it
sturdy latch
Anti-Money trough 
tulip parcel
I should maybe reduce the damage
past herald
Also i thought that name was original sad
tulip parcel
btw if you like it szavak you can vote for it
that "cool dudes" voting only applies to starting the vote
it's not really clear
plush remnant
Beacon of the Devourer
The servants of the scourge have a new master.
Summon weapon or accessory
Crafted with Dark Plasma, Twisting Nether, The item Storm Weaver drops I forgot the name of, Cosmilite Bars, (Darksun Fragments or Auric Ore, if post-Yharon is a better place than post-DoG)
Summons miniature versions of each of the Sentinels. Each Sentinel takes up a minion slot (if item ends up a summon weapon), so for all 3 Sentinels, you need 3 minion slots.
Miniature Storm Weaver dashes into enemies like the Mechworm, and also sometimes rains lightning bolts that phase through tiles.
Miniature Signus dashes into enemies, summons short-lived Cosmilamps, or phases behind enemies and hurts them through contact damage at random.
Miniature Ceaseless Void would fire piercing and homing Dark Energy projectiles that explode after a certain amount of enemy hits.
: Because I thought it would be cool.
Thoughts?
alpine garnet
sounds cool, but iirc we already have a sentinel summon idea
don't rmember if it got 50
alpine garnet
hit 87
alpine garnet
sleek wigeon
Wasnt starred so who knows if it got seen or not
frosty kindle
stats can be increased or decreased at your will, but you could add at the end of your suggestion "all of these stats are placeholders, or ideas and can be changed by devs at will."
basically it allows for devs to give it fine-tuning if it were to be accepted
still, very good suggestion
ruby cobalt
It's not like stats are not going to be fine-tuned in the end if the concept gets accepted.
frosty kindle
just a making-sure thing for if devs feel like small statistical changes would happen, a simple message that welcomes changes sort of thing.
ruby cobalt
That's good, ye.
tulip parcel
aah, was gonna elaborate on that "placeholders" bit but the message apparently hit 2000 characters
tulip parcel
spirit generator love! yeeee
bitter topaz
sturdy latch
damn i hate being new
sturdy latch
@frail mantle What about bosses like Crabulon and Polterghast?
frail mantle
I was mainly thinking just adding them to bosses that are important to the lore, just to guide them to the next step in boss progression
hollow shell
"The abyssal spirits have been disturbed." to guide you to the Abyss
frail mantle
Yeah but Polter technically isn’t necessary to fight, even though you should take him on before Doggo
hollow shell
Also the reason why Providence doesn't have a Sentinels-based message is because they can be fought after Moon Lord now
Rune of Kos is craftable
and also the Rune of Kos is evidence enough that the Sentinels exist because of its tooltip
radiant meadow
same with the bumblebirb I assume
hollow shell
Bumblebirb could use a message, I guess
Though, it's not that hard to discern what you should do next, considering Dragon Egg is one of the only things craftable with Effulgent Feathers and also a summon item
tulip parcel
"buzz buzz, kill a dragon"
"buzz buzz, your morale be flaggin'"
-bumblebirb
radiant meadow
dragon egg also needs draedon's forge so killing bumblebirb does not always lead to yharon
austere orchid
^
hollow shell
But the players will at least know about Yharon for the future, when they kill DoG and get the forge
austere orchid
about the suggestion.
radiant meadow
how do you kill a buffed mothron before dog and providence?
sturdy latch
Aren't the bosses supposed to be a bit more free now?
hollow shell
You can't
austere orchid
it does not say it unless you haven’t killed it.
unless i am mistaken as all fuck 
radiant meadow
oh wait, I think it means when you kill a mothron
post ml still has many restrictions
more free than before but most are still mandatory at one point
sturdy latch
Yes
Unless you're madman enough to kill bumblebirb before providence, which is possible
hollow shell
All Post-ML bosses are mandatory except for Polterghast
but
you can fight Providence or Devourer of Gods in either order now
and Yharon Phase 1, which iirc still drops weapon loot so you can kill the others easilier
radiant meadow
sentinels and birb are no longer locked behind prov and dog respectively as well
fervent zealot
nope, yharon is still post dog
radiant meadow
polter is no longer post prov too
fervent zealot
draedon forge is a requirement for egg
tulip parcel
ayyy lilith
hollow shell
Strange, that.
spark flax
mornin' y'all!
spark flax
i did!
sturdy latch
fuck it is required
radiant meadow
even if you haven't beaten prov or spawn in dragon egg pre dog, you still get treasure bag
spark flax
the frenetic armor set seems... interesting?
part of me worries it'd be overpowered especially since you can get it so early
but also i like the concept
hollow shell
No defense and -30% damage is a good balancer
spark flax
OH, it says decreased damage
i misread it
nevermind, i think that could be really cool!
especially since you could mix and match accessories
tulip parcel
Yeah the idea is to reward experimentation without it being busted
sturdy latch
haha yes
hollow shell
@crimson cove By "something" do you mean enemies or blocks?
lost agate
Thats sounds like material for a QoL mod tho
Not any real reason to be part of calamity
hollow shell
Yeah would be kinda weird to change all hooks to do that
lost agate
And its rather kamikaze-y
Now hooking at a boss has a whole new meaning 
Even so, that way SoC becomes garbage with this idea
The moment you get a hook there wouldnt be a reason to use SoC
hollow shell
eh
SoC is instant, but a hook has to travel out to grab onto something
better for dodging, quick maneuvers
crimson cove
Enemies
hollow shell
There you go
spark flax
ye
it's just that in late hardmode on that's basically all they're useful for b/c their maneuverability is usually outclassed by flight + dash at that point
lost agate
But it still helps to regain flight time quickly
Mainly on things like ravager
So not really seeing them needing a reporpuse
spark flax
mhm, i just like hooks and wish they had more niches outside of that
using them to attack seems kind of weird tho since you'd be drawn towards enemies
ashen warren
yharim is secretly a worm boss
opal barn
@sinful violet
opal barn
We have a suggestion that appears to broke 2 rules at once
lost agate
No NEW boss suggestion smh
dull kite
pine solar
is second warn a ban or something?
sinful violet
nahh
tired haven
Mute, generally?
sinful violet
and who warned em
pine solar
ah
cyan lagoon
sinful violet
if they didn't know, i feel like it should just be a verbal warning
cyan lagoon
We didn't do that before, Mrrp.
sinful violet
doesn't make sense how people who actively post memes in calamity mod talk where its pretty clear usually just get one verbal warning
well
i do
cyan lagoon
So that wouldn't be fair to anyone else that wasn't sanctioned by you
lost agate
Btw, just reminding you guys that NEW bosses suggestions are the things that arent allowed, mrrp just changed that
sinful violet
i usually go by intentions
if they're actively just being a stinky memer, sure
if they didn't know
¯_(ツ)_/¯
hollow shell
Yeah ik Shucks, that's always been the rule
s'just the phrase we've always used :P
opal barn
in #suggestions-voting for the updated rules on suggestions
pine solar
same as for bosses?
I did check the pins
but in my opinion "yes" or "no" is enough for an answer
viscid smelt
just kind of thinking. In the desert scourge lore, it says that the desert scourge is a dried up great sea worm. It dried up because its ocean was drained of water, implying that the desert used to be an ocean or oasis. Why not alter the world gen to make the desert shaped like an ocean?? ie basically a bowl shape
I think that makes sense anyways
just a little thought though. I don't know how possible it is for mods to alter world gen of vanilla stuff
tulip parcel
but now it's a reverse bowl
viscid smelt
or I guess it could just overlay the desert with a different desert
I dont remember, do worlds always generate 2 deserts, or is that just large worlds
either way, one of them could be left normal, and the other could be overwritten with a dried up ocean biome, which could just be a dessert in that shape
spark flax
it's random iirc
viscid smelt
ahh ic
that makes it a harder concept to pull off
either way, that's just food for thought
spark flax
mhm
re. @pine solar 's suggestion
there's currently no scal content released and the devs almost certainly have plans for it, just aren't up to that point yet, so it might be best not to post that suggestion just yet
spark flax
plus it's a very vague kind of suggestion and even if you were to post it at a point where we have post-scal content you'd probably need to more specify ideas instead of just 'some post-scal underground content', like what kind of things would you want?
tired haven
Side note: be more specific with your suggestions
It's all good to say stuff that would be cool but everyone could say that out of their
Yeah ^
tulip parcel
like if you wanna see an acceptable format
spark flax
oof, ninja'd crabby. sorry
tired haven
Whatever
spark flax
but ye, making your suggestions more specific is generally a good idea here
tulip parcel
Name of Item
What point of the game you get it in
The stuff you make it with
This is what the item does. It's a cool item. I think it should be added because X.
there's a decent format
pine solar
yeah
spark flax
yup!
pine solar
I dont suggest weapons
tulip parcel
I've suggested a mix of stuff
pine solar
since I think everything is already there
tulip parcel
mostly accessories come to think of it
hey man, people like weapons
options aren't bad
spark flax
i've suggested like. an assortment of stuff, but pretty much all QoL or Summon/Thrown/True Melee tools (armor, weapons, etc)
pine solar
I could as well suggest making more clouds post Providence or something
spark flax
like a new sky island with profaned content? that could be interesting
pine solar
Nimbus Rod-like things
austere orchid
i generally do weapons.
pine solar
this couldve been too
austere orchid
iirc i had a boss summoning idea, as a substitute for DoG’s one.
tulip parcel
aint good to limit yourself
viscid smelt
man, babe elena posted an ice castle thing in the calamity art in game builds section and that prompted me to read cryogen lore about the ice castle
so it was swallowed by yharims magic and in its place is cryogen
ashen warren
I'd been thinking about suggesting some fist weapons, possibly since fab confirmed one of the bosses is gonna be a cqc boye
viscid smelt
so what if when cryogen dies, there's an ice castle that spawns in the snow biome, or underground ice biome
or something 
idk I just want more world gen things
spark flax
that could be nifty
tulip parcel
I don't know how difficult world gen is to program
viscid smelt
cause to me new biomes and world gen is really what helps make a mod feel different
tulip parcel
it can't be that bad, I mean they made the astral meteor work
spark flax
especially because the only worldgen that calamity adds to frost rn is the extremely rare frost tombs
viscid smelt
well it shouldnt be too bad for the devs, consdiering we have things like the profaned biome and the abyss
spark flax
and frost biome was pretty fuckin bare bones in vanilla to begin with
viscid smelt
ye
spark flax
and the Profaned Crags are the Brimstone Crags now btw
viscid smelt
or alternatievly to it just going poof and appearing
it COULD just spawn like lihzahrd temple
spark flax
since they're not actually lore related to provi
viscid smelt
being unbreakable, and being unlocked after cryogen is defeated
but I don't know how yharim's sealing magic shenanagins works with the lore :s
from what I understand from cryo lore, permafrost and his castle were 'enveloped in pure darkness', and cryogen is all that was left behind
spark flax
ye, true
spark flax
my mental assumption was that cryogen IS the castle, and the whole thing kind of got
compacted, somehow
like a pokeball
but ice crystal
viscid smelt
I don't want to ping fab but I kind of want to ping fab just to see if that suggestion idea contradicts anything
lmao
ashen warren
Your funeral pyre
viscid smelt
are any of the other admins or mods or devs involvedw ith lore that I should ping instead of fab
eh
spark flax
beats me
viscid smelt
I don't think so. I don't know if he'd be happy about it, but I wouldn't ping him for legitimately no reason :s
I have no intention of disrespecting him, which is why I asked about mods
ashen warren
devs might know, but fab is the handler of all things lore
viscid smelt
ok well idk I'll take a chance cough @marsh stump you're my go to dev to ping for shit, help me out here
maybe I should have pinged rover instead
rover tends to be the one guy with a lot of info saved on hand in the art server, and he's a wiki editor
shid
too late now
pine solar
Cloud-type weapon like Nimbus Rod dropped by Providence that would inflict Holy Flames Debuff. There could be limit of 3 clouds.
The damage of the rain would be (some number the dev would input) increased by (amount of minions that can be summoned*D where D is some another number dev would input to make this balanced).
The game lacks turrets in the late stage of the game and that's why I'd like to see it.```
is this okay?but there aren't any more nimbus cloud upgrades
tulip parcel
yeah you gotta change your reasoning a little
viscid smelt
instead of it being dropped by providence it could be crafted with nimbus rod and some providence materials
tulip parcel
ye
viscid smelt
it's a good idea, I'm not against it, but yeah that's not a very true reasoning :P
divine geode
that's what I'm looking for
5 or 10 or so divine geode's, maybe some uelibloom, nimbus rod, whatever else
spark flax
either Shadowrain or Crimson Rod mayb? (or Shadowdrop, whichever does the clouds and not the skyglaze-esque thing)
i like it, Nimbus Rod was always a weapon i used as summoner since as long as the staff wasn't out your summons would still do regular damage so having it become a straight up summon weapon makes sense
marsh stump
whar
marsh stump
yo
viscid smelt
I wanted to ask if you knew which of the devs/mods/admins knew much about the lore and stuff
I have a suggestion about cryogen but like
we dont know how it works out in relation to the lore
tulip parcel
He wants an ice castle
viscid smelt
and I dont want to ping fab directly unless I ahve to x)
tulip parcel
while you're here
ashen warren
Lilac's nice.
tulip parcel
how hard is it to generate a structure after world gen
marsh stump
i dont think its super duper hard, but i dont do any actual coding so i wouldnt know lmao
i just make pretty pictures
marsh stump
oh yea i had an idea like that before, i thought itd be kinda neat
viscid smelt
The suggestion was basically that, since the castle and ice mage were 'enveloped ind arkness' from yharim, as said in cryo lore, cryogen was left behind as a result. So what if when you defeat Cryogen for the first time, an ice castle will spawn, either on the surface of the snow gbiome, or underground ice biome? (or if spawning it randomly doesnt work, it could function like an ice version of the lihzahrd temple, in that it's indestructible until you progress past a certain point)
marsh stump
it was never fleshed out at all though
viscid smelt
@livid coral
tulip parcel
what do you mean fleshed out, like
you never really thought of stuff to put in the castle?
marsh stump
i just didnt get very far in terms of design in general
it was just a bare bones idea when i thought of it
tulip parcel
riiight
viscid smelt
BabeElena made an ice castle kind of thing as an homage to the lore, so I was thinking of it
tulip parcel
well the think tank here might take a crack at it
livid coral
Hoo? Lore?
tulip parcel
I mean we're usually p good
viscid smelt
I was just unsure on how possible it is to just spawn structures out of nowhere, and I'm also unsure on if the lore is supportive of it
livid coral
Let me read up
marsh stump
yo lilac
viscid smelt
cause lilith thinks cryogen is just the castle condensed
but the lore doesnt specify
so I'd need to ask before I make that suggestion
tulip parcel
so you're not just exploring an ice castle
you're exploring his corpse
it'd probably generate like a really big sphere
viscid smelt
I'd also be willing to help attempt create some structures for help if need be. I've not tried to do a lot of ice builds, but I do a TON of nature builds, so at the very least I'd be willing to make something for the suggestion to get some more ideas rolling
tulip parcel
if his new sprite is actually spherical
viscid smelt
again just need info on the lore, or at least a negative/positive on it
tulip parcel
it'd make sense for it to be a big ball with stuff in it
viscid smelt
gn
tulip parcel
oh that was a joke
viscid smelt
wait wait what if the structure generates like lihzahrd temple, is locked and undestructable, and a key for the temple is dropped from WoF??
then you ahve to fight crryogen inside the temple??
wait no that doesnt make sense
LOL
tulip parcel
I mean you buy the key from the wizard already
viscid smelt
that makes sense from a boss perspective but that doesnt add up with the lore
you'd have to fight cryogen and kill him then the temple is 'released' or whatever
k
viscid smelt
presuming that's how the lore works....???
tulip parcel
there's some serious jank to just spawning a giant castle in the overworld after a boss dies
but that's how you'd have to do it
since cryogen is "the castle condensed"
livid coral
Sorry Dad called at an innopurtune time. Okay so
We did consider an ice castle.
Lore wise Cryogen is the castle for now, just condensed iirc I have some Permafrost Lore in the works dealing with it
viscid smelt
okay so that does add up then
livid coral
We already have an extra biome in hell it's called the Crags
viscid smelt
okay, so, how possible is it to make a lihzahrd temple sized temple just spawn out of nowhere after a boss is killed
??
tulip parcel
the crag is pretty much hell v2
viscid smelt
I presume it's 'possible'
fervent zealot
honestly it would be so easy if you want to make something for cryogen just expand on ice tombs
viscid smelt
but I also presume it's not easy by any standards
livid coral
We;d have to make tiles, and walls and shit for the castle so it is pretty high effort
tulip parcel
how do you make blocks?
viscid smelt
I was going to say isn't there already something like that, but I'm thinking of cryonic ore
tulip parcel
like what do you need to code, I'm being serious here
do you need a "sprite sheet" of the block or something?
viscid smelt
I don't think you'd really need to make a separate set of blocks for the castle if I'm being honest. Ice and Snow Bricks and Ice Bricks and all that already allow for a good amount of crafting towards an ice castle, however I guess a seperate block would be necessary to make it unbreakable
in theory you could reshade lihzahrd brick to be a different color but even that'd eventually probably get its own sprite update
livid coral
You need an entire tileset and you have to ensure that it is tiled all correctly. Then you have to get the tiles programmed in, and then creating the entire structure with it. Which takes a long ot effort.
Seriously, Abyss took like a month or two of work, Astral same amount.
So it is pretty high effort compared to some other things
viscid smelt
yeah, that makes a lot of sense
tulip parcel
okay
viscid smelt
I still think it's something that should be done, maybe not right away, but eventually
tulip parcel
I just don't really have like, an angle or perspective on this
viscid smelt
helps flesh out cryogen a little more as well
tulip parcel
so i wanted to know
livid coral
And we already have a huge terrain gen update going up so it might not be implemented into later. i DO like the idea of an ice castle. IDK how big we can make it though. Snow Biome is smaller than Jungle, usually.
viscid smelt
Lol, should I even make a suggestion about it then, or is the idea already floating around still in staff chats
livid coral
I believe it's still floating around
I imagine if you put it up it'll get to 50 quickly. Honestly I wanna see rn how many peeps are interested in it
tulip parcel
Would an extension to the frozen biome be possible?
viscid smelt
Okay, well I'll make a suggestion about it then just to see how interested people are in it
tulip parcel
Like, could you stretch it down
I could see a big ice castle having room underground moreso than above it
livid coral
You probably could I mean weextended the world so
spark flax
also i super agree on the moon lord lumi drop increase
it's nonsense how many times you have to fight him to get enough lumi
2 times for armor and a guardian spawn egg and almost certainly at least once more to get class weapons
viscid smelt
should b good
tulip parcel
y'know what
I just thought of a dumb idea for a minion
...nah it's not good, it's actually dumb
nevermind
man ideas are hard
alpine copper
THE LORDE minion?