suggestions-discussion

[novel belfry]

oh

did i forget?

damn. good riddance tbh

im sure there could've been a better way to implement charge in a fun way

but removing it is a good option anyways

[indigo yacht]

yeah and they can do it on one line of weapons to allow a unique gameplay style to flow into it rather than either having an annoying ass mechanic or having a mechanic that pigeonholes every weapon to make use of it into functioning a certain way or being trash to use

[lucid marsh]

It is not as good as simply removing charge all together in my opinion, but I'll suggest it anyways. The effect could be better as an accessory instead

[north oracle]

consecutive hit effects just... don't work on many weapons because of projectile spam being common

[half imp]

good news though

Halley's Inferno will have a consecutive hit effect

[keen zodiac]

peam

[distant gyro]

homing projectiles hmm yes free benefits

[last shard]

Ngl I'm a little surprised I even could make my suggestion

I thought Rover and Sponge were both very popular accessories, so it's funny that they just suddenly disappear for Hardmode

[lucid marsh]

Ah good point I suppose. It would only make sense on a per weapon basis

[fleet grotto]

The reasoning sucks though

[inland saddle]

oh so discord is just lying now awesome

[grave zinc]

@past viper - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Prevent natural boss spawns while a boss fight is already ongoing]

It has received enough votes to be passed on to the dev server for voting! You'll be notified again when a verdict is reached.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[keen zodiac]

bot alive 🎉

[indigo yacht]

please no it would be funny

[errant wren]

i feel like i shouldn't ping but uh

[grave zinc]

@knotty igloo - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[## Add a chance to save ammo by default for the Blossom Flux]

It has officially been implemented into the game, and will be available in the next update!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[half imp]

I got you

[errant wren]

thanks doze

[indigo yacht]

i understand the purpose of letting it go to voting to flag it but it still kind of annoys me that it pushes all the suggestions above higher up

i wish there was another channel where added suggestions got moved to or something so people could still check but they didnt get in the way

idk

[errant wren]

maybe..

i can only envision some sort of uh.. forum kind of situation

[oblique birch]

do not ever

[errant wren]

that or just channels like "rejected-suggestions" or whatever

[oblique birch]

double EoC is one of the funniest shits

and it's already so rare so like

why

[keen zodiac]

true

[oblique birch]

if you fail to notice the spawn message then skill issue

[keen zodiac]

suggestion hell

[errant wren]

i said it would've been funny to have a message if you're already so far past when you're supposed to fight a naturally-spawning boss in the middle of a fight

imagine fighting exo mechs and just seeing "Skeletron Prime decided to go home for the night..."

[fleet grotto]

Eye of Cthulhu started looking at its phone for stimulation...

[oblique birch]

Not your place chump I'm fighting god killing machines right now

[errant wren]

"The Twins are looking respectfully from a distance..."

however if you're around eoc in progression then yeah eoc should still just spawn normally because funny

-# it'd be funny if eoc spawning during the eoc fight had a message like "a second eye of cthulhu has hit the [world name]"

[indigo yacht]

yeah this suggestion sucks it's so easy to avoid and allows for really silly stuff

its not like random crits it's like headshotting the cloaked spy on the other end of the map

[keen zodiac]

having another boss spawn while you're fighting one and still winning is the peakest shit ever

[oblique birch]

People who want not accidentally spawning Queen Bee and this aren't real

Not sorry

[indigo yacht]

the nefarious guide to environmental conservation or whatever it was called:

the laziness of cal players never ceases to amaze

cant be bothered to wait like, 13 seconds to spawn a boss in, or right click on an item you can just buy

[keen zodiac]

ok the queen bee thing is valid, it's antithetical to calamity's design philosophy where you have to prepare for bosses

getting jumped out of nowhere like that should stay in vanilla

[oblique birch]

Erm, wat

[indigo yacht]

the issue is that (most of the time) it is your own fault for not exercising caution

don't use the weapon that goes through walls and covers the entire screen, for example

[keen zodiac]

ok but you see my point though right

[oblique birch]

You get jumped by so many things that aren't even bosses

[indigo yacht]

not really

[oblique birch]

Dead man'a chest

Boulder trap

[errant wren]

how many weapons around queen bee tier even pass through walls

[oblique birch]

Fucking idk crab statue spam

[keen zodiac]

i'm
i'm referring to bosses specifically

[indigo yacht]

i have no idea i was mostly being hyperbolic

[oblique birch]

I just think these shouldn't be changed

[errant wren]

exploration is the only situation you get jumped by queen bee

[oblique birch]

They created like so many funny moments

[indigo yacht]

waiter! waiter! more surprisingly high-effort vanilla changes to make the game less interactive for the most minor quality of life possible!

[crude geode]

High-effort????

[keen zodiac]

less interactive??

i'd be fine with just making it take more than 1 hit to break

[indigo yacht]

I've spent most of my time coding trying to mess with vanilla features and god damn is it a mess

[keen zodiac]

like hive tumors or something

[keen zodiac]

there's already mods that do this

[indigo yacht]

ok

why does that matter

i want to code a mod that makes every boss summonable via fishing idc

[keen zodiac]

because it proves that it's feasible???

[indigo yacht]

high effort =/= impossible

[errant wren]

it proves it's possible

[keen zodiac]

i don't think it's that serious tbh

[indigo yacht]

I'm saying that you usually have to expend more effort than it really feels like you should to change most vanilla features

sometimes it can be very complicated

[oblique birch]

getting jumped by Dungeon Guards, Queen Bee, EoC and Mechs, boulder, explosive traps, to me, is incredibly funny

[errant wren]

hardcode shenanigans, i imagine

[indigo yacht]

wasting dev time on this is not worthwhile

[keen zodiac]

i agree, my point is that the queen bee one is unique in that it's instantaneous

[indigo yacht]

most of the time, yeah

[keen zodiac]

with natural spawns you at least get a minute of warning

[glass arch]

the only ones of these that arent instant are eoc and mechs

[keen zodiac]

buh

[glass arch]

so its not even unique there

[oblique birch]

Queen Bee is closer to a trap if you think about it

Instead of instant dead, a big blig monster comes for you

[indigo yacht]

(anyways calamity has been trying to move away from changing every single aspect of vanilla in some way to only changing important stuff for balancing and qol)

[keen zodiac]

yeah there shouldn't be a trap that throws an entire boss at you without warning

how is this controversial

[indigo yacht]

there is a warning

its called a bee larva

[keen zodiac]

you're purposefully missing the point

[glass arch]

the only reason it matters is the fact that qb doesnt have a distance despawn

[indigo yacht]

your point is barely applicable

[errant wren]

big beehive is typically an indicator that there's danger

[indigo yacht]

^

[glass arch]

that is. genuinely. the only reason qb being naturally spawning in that way can be an issue

[novel belfry]

nah

[keen zodiac]

in vanilla it's fine bc you have a chance of killing bosses without preparation

[novel belfry]

i dont care for this convo, swap the giant beehive with the Vernal Pass

[keen zodiac]

in calamity, you don't

[oblique birch]

Idk, it just seems like a non issue that it should be taken away from the base game in Cal

[keen zodiac]

unless it's like king slime

[oblique birch]

Ok I got jumpscared and I died

[last shard]

That's fair.

[indigo yacht]

with the right precautions (and I'd hazard most people at least have an idea of what those would be from vanilla) you can easily avoid spawning queen bee, you don't need to be coddled by making it so that you physically can't
that's why i called it less interactive

[oblique birch]

It's literally just 1 death

[glass arch]

yeah

[keen zodiac]

bruh

[indigo yacht]

there's the occasional spawns that make no sense and those are definitely annoying but also they're lowkey really funny so im okay with them more often than not

[glass arch]

it really is just a thing where

if you know what you're doing

in even the smallest capacity

it is not an issue

[keen zodiac]

disagree

[indigo yacht]

you could maybe compare it to something like sulphurous poisoning or abyss breath loss

[errant wren]

you have to be a bit careless to end up spawning queen bee by accident

[indigo yacht]

i think this conversation is going in circles

[keen zodiac]

take the giant beehive, there could be larva hidden in the honey and if you miss one arrow, sorry back to spawn

it's unfairly punishing

[oblique birch]

Those clips of people accidentally spawning Queen Bee in another boss fights are so funmy

[indigo yacht]

let's agree to disagree

[indigo yacht]

fr...

[keen zodiac]

yes because it's different in vanilla

[indigo yacht]

especially when they're ridiculously far away

[keen zodiac]

bc bosses are easier

[indigo yacht]

fighting wall of flesh
Queen Bee has awoken!

this one is actually quite reasonable but it seems drastic

[errant wren]

-# i'd wager that a good chunk of people playing calamity have played base terraria and are aware of the bee

[keen zodiac]

that's not the issue

[glass arch]

no that is the issue

[keen zodiac]

it's not

[indigo yacht]

ok im going to leave yall to repeating the same things over and over

[drowsy plank]

idk if someone already talked about this but

[errant wren]

oh hi cog

[drowsy plank]

yes we should disable natural boss spawns during another boss fight

[keen zodiac]

booooooo

[drowsy plank]

you can just remove the lock on using the spawn item more than once

[oblique birch]

No we shouldn't

[drowsy plank]

that's how you do night provi in the next update anyway

it adds literally nothing

if you want to fight more than one boss use multiple spawn items

that way it's a choice

very simple

[keen zodiac]

pluh

[glass arch]

a natural boss spawning in the middle of another fight is an astronomically low chance

[indigo yacht]

that changes it from a "funny double boss fight moment" to a do it whenever you want

[errant wren]

cog you don't understand it's for the funny

[oblique birch]

It's not a choice and that is a great thing

[drowsy plank]

yes

no it isn't

[oblique birch]

Yes it is

[drowsy plank]

choice shockingly is a good thing in video games

[keen zodiac]

cool can you also do the qb thing then

[drowsy plank]

randomly punishing people because they dont know that the boss can still spawn if one is already alive is dumb

[glass arch]

i dont think ive ever had it happen to me

[glass arch]

this is?? vanilla knowledge???

[indigo yacht]

yeah im with uhm

whatever their name is above me here

[keen zodiac]

john mage

[indigo yacht]

john mage

[oblique birch]

It gave good laughs for a lot of people

And is one of the funniest things considered to people

[drowsy plank]

"it's funny" is a stupid reason to leave something in when it's just as likely to be incredibly frustrating to other people

[oblique birch]

So for this instance I entirely disagree

[errant wren]

cal does have a little bit of a... higher terraria knowledge needed?

[drowsy plank]

you can get the same effect without the random punish

[indigo yacht]

conversely, why should we punish people for misclicking and not knowing that would spawn another boss?

[drowsy plank]

also yeah sure, but how often does a second natural boss spawn actually come up

[drowsy plank]

increase the usetime or add a tooltip

[indigo yacht]

calamity players cant read

[errant wren]

-# that's not the word i'm looking for...

[drowsy plank]

you can give people that information

[fleet grotto]

what's the point of adding anything that could help lead the player

[glass arch]

cal comes prebaked with the assumption that you have baseline vanilla knowledge of how stuff works

[errant wren]

thanks john mage

[oblique birch]

No actively summon the boss twice with boss summon doesn't give the same effect

[fleet grotto]

why have messages after beating a boss vaguely telling you what has been unlocked

[drowsy plank]

if they can't read the item they are using to spawn the boss that's on them, especially if there's a cooldown on it or something, you can't expect people to know natural bosses will still spawn when other ones are alive; it's frankly weird as hell they do that especially when boss zen exists

[oblique birch]

It really doesn't

[drowsy plank]

what is the effect

[indigo yacht]

i don't really want to remove something that makes the game feel more unique just to reimplement it with none of the charm

I don't think most people do

[drowsy plank]

the funniness you were talking about earlier

[keen zodiac]

i agree with this

[drowsy plank]

because that's just "it would be cool" reasoning

[indigo yacht]

is that a bad thing

[drowsy plank]

how does this make the game unique i dont get it

[keen zodiac]

funny

[drowsy plank]

it's just weird and inconsistent, and im sure someone's gotten mad at it before

[oblique birch]

Funny

That's all there is

[mystic sandal]

What’re we discussing rn

[indigo yacht]

"it would be cool" is only considered improper reasoning in this channel specifically because suggestions are supposed to be for solving problems

[oblique birch]

A rare good laugh

[drowsy plank]

removing the ability for natural bosses to spawn while another boss is alive

[keen zodiac]

natural boss spawns while a boss is already alive

[fleet grotto]

when i think of terraria I don't think of fighting two bosses at once because one spawned while I was fighting another

[mystic sandal]

Good change

[crude geode]

^^^^

[errant wren]

there's just no real strong reasoning for changing that

[drowsy plank]

yeah shocking i know

everyone is just saying to keep it because "funny"

[mystic sandal]

I just wanna kill king slime I don’t want eoc to go “hey wanna see something really funny”

[drowsy plank]

i dont get it

[indigo yacht]

cog hates fun confirmed...

[oblique birch]

And it's already exist and gave already soo much laughs to people since, idk

The beginning

[keen zodiac]

refer to this message

[mystic sandal]

But like has it tho

[fleet grotto]

negativity bias

[oblique birch]

Yes

[indigo yacht]

yes

[keen zodiac]

???

[indigo yacht]

this reasoning sucks though

[mystic sandal]

Realistically this will only happen with eoc and maybe the mechs (although natural mech spawns feel significantly rarer)

[indigo yacht]

"it has always been" is never a good argument

[errant wren]

it can be funny in some cases

[glass arch]

the reasoning for changing it also relies heavily on edge cases

[indigo yacht]

natural mechs are a 10% while eoc is nearly a 33% chance iirc

[crude geode]

The entire concept relies on edge cases????

[errant wren]

so like i said, there's no real strong reason on either side

[fleet grotto]

idek if that's the right term but the negative emotions that can arise from the event will be greater than the positive emotions that can

[indigo yacht]

"why should we punish players for not knowing a second boss can spawn"
"why should we punish players for not knowing chests can be trapped"
"why should we punish players for not knowing zombies can break down doors"

Thats the way i see it

[glass arch]

its a massive edge case and certainly not one that requires what i think would be considered a rework to natural boss spawning

[errant wren]

there should be a bit of learning that comes in the game, yeah

[fleet grotto]

bosses spawning naturally is completely unpredictable

[indigo yacht]

or, not break down, but bust i- i dont need to explain thus

[drowsy plank]

you can see the traps around trapped chests and zombies have a noise telegraph for breaking doors

[mystic sandal]

I feel like there’s a pretty substantial difference between dead man’s chests and eoc spawning

[errant wren]

naturally-spawning bosses do have that message

[fleet grotto]

well yeah

[drowsy plank]

if you decide "oh eoc is spawning might as well get this out of the way" and then another one shows up that's gonna suck

[indigo yacht]

natural boss spawns have a message warning it's coming

this is an identical case

[fleet grotto]

i may be misinterpreting this as like

fighting a boss, then during the fight the message appears

[indigo yacht]

it shows as soon as night starts

[errant wren]

it's also vanilla knowledge, so...

[crude geode]

No that’s what we’re talking about

[drowsy plank]

read the message right above this

[fleet grotto]

so it's stupid

[crude geode]

I also think this is going in circles

[errant wren]

it's been a circle, methinks

[indigo yacht]

is a player going to gather that a trapped chest is the source of all the traps around it the very first time they see it? likely not. same goes for this

[drowsy plank]

you can skip slime rain by spawning king slime early, it doesn't even make sense with the internal logic of the game that you can spawn two by using it before the natural spawn

[indigo yacht]

but the next time, they will know

[oblique birch]

And that's why it's so good

[fleet grotto]

it's really not

[oblique birch]

Ultimate clips farm

[glass arch]

you get the spawn messages at the same time though

[fleet grotto]

people don't play terraria for clips

[drowsy plank]

if they have ever encounter the concept of a mimic or trapped chest in another game, it is entirely reasonable for them to intuit that, that other scenario is not intuitive at all, and like i just said with the king slime thing, is not even internally consistent

[gaunt crystal]

I mean

isn't there a pre-ml rover drive shield?

I think it's part of an armor set

[keen zodiac]

lunic corps

[drowsy plank]

that's an armor set

[fleet grotto]

trapped chests are a tbing that happens once, then you learn to be careful
it is something you have control over
Not natural boss spawns

[drowsy plank]

completely different and not splashable considering it is ranged

[glass arch]

in this example you are prewarned that there are 2 bosses spawning

[indigo yacht]

I don't agree with this, because it relies on external factors
personally, when i started terraria i knew absolutely nothing about trapped chests, so assuming that everyone will is not something i think is right

i think the only games i had played prior were like, shitty kids games and minecraft

[drowsy plank]

even assuming someone has not heard about trapped chests before you can intuit that from the sheer number of traps around a chest that

maybe

the chest will set off the traps

[fleet grotto]

ehhh

[drowsy plank]

because they are guarding the loot

it's not that much of a logical jump

[glass arch]

if you see the traps sure

[indigo yacht]

then isn't it reasonable to assume that the boss would appear unimpeded? you can spawn other bosses concurrently, isn't it possible that two of the same could come?

[fleet grotto]

the traps are meant to be hidden pretty well

[drowsy plank]

as i said before, there is nothing clarifying that spawning a boss you can spawn another boss of the same type at once when normal spawn items cannot do that

[glass arch]

there have been times where i just didnt notice traps and got fucked because of it

[indigo yacht]

nothing clarifies the chest triggers the traps until it happens either

[drowsy plank]

ok, that doesn't mean it isn't possible and we shouldn't be trying to make the game more inuititive and accessible to more people

if you want to fight two EoCs at once i already explained how that could be preserved

[oblique birch]

A lot of people still do even after knowing the existence of trap chests

[errant wren]

my first 1.4.whatever playthrough, i didn't know that dead man's chests were naturally spawning now, so i thought the traps were just naturally spawned around the chest
then kaboom

[glass arch]

yeah including me

[drowsy plank]

if someone is about to kill king slime for the first time in calamity and then eye of cthulhu pops in and fucks them that's not going to be a fun experience

[errant wren]

i think i mentioned that there's a bit of baseline knowledge going into cal (credit: also john mage)

[oblique birch]

Me too, I just don't think, I see chest I open

[indigo yacht]

I'm not sure calamity should focus on being accessible and intuitive by changing established vanilla features

[drowsy plank]

i know that, but this isn't really baseline knowledge

it already does that

[oblique birch]

I don't look for pressure plates I walk wherever I want and get exploded

[indigo yacht]

does that mean it should?

[drowsy plank]

it doesn't mean anything, but i like it and if it's already doing that it should keep doing it imo because generally it is not the type of thing people complain about

[crude geode]

We’ve already changed plenty of established vanilla features lmao

[drowsy plank]

damn we really gotta bring back the fuckin uhhhhhh post-plant lock on the golem fight what if someone figures out hoiks and gets into the temple early

[indigo yacht]

i swear people don't actually read my messages and just choose little snippets to respond to

[drowsy plank]

you did the same thing to me

[glass arch]

we can be the better person can we not

[drowsy plank]

ive been reading everything they've been saying, im just not really sure what their point is here; considering this is an argument, plenty of things have been brushed over on both sides

[indigo yacht]

i wasn't even talking about you

[oblique birch]

Ok but early hardmode in vanilla sucks ass, and almost no one finds it enjoying to mine ores after ores back to back, while other changes are mostly for non-linear supports. It is different with this case here

[drowsy plank]

how is this different

[glass arch]

both sides of the argument kinda rely on "why not" for reasoning

[drowsy plank]

dont say it's funny

it's not why not it can actively improve the new player experience which is already fucking miserable in base terraria, let alone calamity

getting punished for not knowing this niche interaction is dumb

[oblique birch]

I don't think new player experience in base Terraria is miserable

And in this case, it's like 98% of people will never encounter this

[drowsy plank]

and that's not a reason to fix it for the 2% that do?

also i suppose that first point is subjective but there is a reason terraria gets called a wiki game

[oblique birch]

Because here it seems like it's pretty divisive between people who want it gone and people who want to keep it

[drowsy plank]

it's not divisive it's just the suggestion heads having a stupid argument; it got 126 stars which is awfully high in the current voting "economy" for lack of a better term

[oblique birch]

And whenever I see someone encounter this people will always laugh away, up until now

Ok but does those people represent whole community

[drowsy plank]

they represent more than we do

[crude geode]

^^^^

[oblique birch]

Are you saying Alcohol buying getting brought back is good

Because it has a lot of stars

[glass arch]

god this is such a fucking idiotic convo

no kiri that is not what cog is saying that is a massive strawman

[errant wren]

my general opinion is:
It (naturally-spawning bosses spawning during an ongoing fight) is really not something that matters enough in Calamity to warrant a change, at least in comparison to other vanilla mechanics (arbitrary locks on some bosses, Hardmode rework, etc.). Calamity does kind of exist as a mod where you're more or less expected to know the general mechanics of vanilla Terraria, while changing some things around that allow the player to challenge themselves, if they so choose.
With that, naturally-spawning bosses are part of that general experience of vanilla, with a warning that lets them know the boss is arriving. You would have to have missed or ignored the warning in the case of nighttime bosses, or have taken a while in daytime boss fights.
It's eh either way for me.

[drowsy plank]

no, but im saying people want it, and considering this is a change that i think improves the newer player experience (typically the type who are less likely to talk) i think it provides decent evidence that people that probably didn't even know this mechanic existed would want it removed

[crude geode]

True

[errant wren]

i mean i guess it does have 126 votes

[crude geode]

The general voting populace is a double edged sword, but it’s one most often utilized for the bettering of the cal mod

[errant wren]

i remember voting for it but with the idea that it could be more situational than universal

[glass arch]

i think theres a valid crossmod compat argument against the sugg here? i dont actually know how much this would interact with crossmod stuff though

[drowsy plank]

imo, mostly to little detriment, i imagine a scenario where you are fighting one of the alternate mech bosses, it happened to be noon or so, you might've been using slightly suboptimal gear because you're new and you're not as dedicated as the type of people who talk here to grind out for all the best gear, you get cryogen or as or whatever surface boss you want to say, 5%, and then you see the mech spawn message in chat. you are already fighting a difficult boss on your skill level, and then destroyer fucking pops out of the ground and oneshots you.

i cannot think of a scenario in which is this is a good experience for any player. we already have boss zen. i cannot imagine any reason beyond "funny" to keep this. it's the same logic as getting zombie spawns to hit at and kill you because you couldn't see them in the dark while fighting the boss, or didn't even realize they could show up

[glass arch]

i think you're also underestimating the time between the message popping up and the boss spawning

it isnt an instant thing

[errant wren]

crossmod is a little, not really too important

[drowsy plank]

i know it isnt instant

what is the counterplay to that

[golden sonnet]

Boss zen should disable natural spawns, I see no reason that should not be the case

[drowsy plank]

some people probably dont even know you could see him on the map

[glass arch]

as stated previously, theres about a minute and a half between the message and the spawning

[errant wren]

i mean i did address this kind of

like i totally agree that is a scenario that can happen

[drowsy plank]

i dont see any reason not to fix it when multi-boss fights can be provided to experienced players through much more controlled methods if people still want to do that

[errant wren]

i know the perfect solution: we make it a tog- i was then shot 458 times in the backstreets of New York City

[glass arch]

mods kill hs

[drowsy plank]

unironically it would be fine

[crude geode]

I see we’ve avoiding “clearly” so my virus doesn’t shut down your computer

[glass arch]

clearly we make it a togore

[errant wren]

[drowsy plank]

i mumbled some of this to my partner during this conversation and that's actually just what they said; if it's that controversial, just make it a toggle, and you could have it on by default so people can just. turn it back off if you want them back

isn't boss zen already toggleable anyway

it's the same idea

[crude geode]

Isn’t toggles for controversial shit. not good.

[errant wren]

hardmode rework moment

[plush flame]

why would anyone ever want to disable boss zen

[crude geode]

(Far different and you know it)

[drowsy plank]

mod compatability, probably, which was a concern brought up earlier

[glass arch]

death mode blood moon zerg battle king slime

[crude geode]

King slime but every health by him lost makes 10 slimes spawn

[errant wren]

-# i genuinely forgot for 3 seconds

[drowsy plank]

if you need another boss to spawn while a first boss is alive, it's possible calamity could get fucky with it depending on how this is handled, but making it only apply to vanilla bosses would probably be more than enough to fix that without it needing to be a toggle

[last shard]

Soooo much gel ^q^

[drowsy plank]

unless ur playing like. the world's weirdest boss AI overhaul lmao

for example, fab's skele prime ai

[glass arch]

actually

if it isnt vanilla bosses only

i think it genuinely just breaks exos scal and calclone

i dont know if brothers and super brothers are internally flagged as bosses

[drowsy plank]

ah yes i am sure calamity will actively make it so a qol flag fucks their own bosses- no they'd just have exceptions to it lmao
like i said, it'd be way easier to just. make it only effect the vanilla boss spawns as those are the only ones whose behavior can be consistently expected

anything else and you'd probably end up killing lots of boss minions by accident like you said

[glass arch]

well theres also the part where cal doesnt have naturally spawning bosses outside of like 2

[drowsy plank]

if somebody makes green eye of cthulhu spawn naturally then idk man that's crossmod shit you're on your own

[plush flame]

wouldnt it just disable natural spawns instead of forced spawns

[drowsy plank]

imagine if calclone was a natural spawn ngl

[plush flame]

like im pretty sure theyre different functions

[drowsy plank]

i dont know how the implementation would work!

we're really spitballing here

[glass arch]

horrible please stop cooking

[errant wren]

if it helps and devs do take a toggle route, i would suggest "make boss zen also prevent natural boss spawns," so you'd have to turn on both boss zen and the new one

[drowsy plank]

lies

we already have naturally spawning mechs, her spawning naturally post-3 mechs would be entirely reasonable

plus it would line up with her lore or whatever

[plush flame]

didnt death make almost every boss naturally spawn once downed at some point

[errant wren]

damn ok cog disliked my idea so much they preemptively said lies

[drowsy plank]

yes but death is dumb

[crude geode]

Yeah

[glass arch]

yeah and it was really stupid and died after like 3 patches iirc

[crude geode]

something something difficulty modes trying to standout

[drowsy plank]

so true

fargos did it too tho i think so it's the opposite

[plush flame]

maso boss spawns are so fucking rare

[errant wren]

fargos is fargos

[plush flame]

ive done several runs and havent seen one

[drowsy plank]

this is true but they both existed around the same time

[glass arch]

maso has natural boss spawns??

[drowsy plank]

it just proves that by trying to be original they did the opposite

[plush flame]

they may as well not exist thats how rare they are

they may have gotten removed i have no idea

[errant wren]

i've been doing maso and it's eh, only got eoc a few times and boc twice

yes it's still there

[crude geode]

What even is the plan for difficulties with fabsol gone

[errant wren]

the plan is to give me full cont- and i was shot 9 more times in the pelvis

[drowsy plank]

fargoing it up

expert
rev
master
death (rev + master)

so basically what fargos did with eternity

and masochist

[errant wren]

i do enjoy that system actually

[crude geode]

Honestly much cleaner than whatever the fuck was going on before

[keen zodiac]

and legdeath is called malice

[glass arch]

classic
expert, expert rev, expert death
master, master rev, master death
legendary, legendary rev, legendary death

[crude geode]

Yeah

[plush flame]

new:
classic
expert, rev
master, death
legendary, malice

its quite nice

[keen zodiac]

🙂‍↕️

[plush flame]

won't have to ask people if theyre playing expert death or master death anymore too

[errant wren]

a lot cleaner

[crude geode]

Wait we’re actually bringing back malice

[keen zodiac]

it's just the name

not actually different from current legdeath

but still funne

[north oracle]

return of malice

[past viper]

Its just when the message pops up during a fight, but its in very specific circumstances (low% runs and that kinda deal, really just makes you waste an entire attempt that youre already minutes into just because of rng)

I do agree that during casual playthroughs its really funny too

Also think cog brought up a good point earlier. Even without challenge runs fights can take significantly longer than the grace period after the message pops up on higher difficulties.

[errant wren]

yeah in the end that's why i (jokingly) suggested the config solution

it could be justified as "simulating optimal rng for certain challenge runs”

[drowsy plank]

@glossy holly your suggestion is too long

[glossy holly]

aw there's a character limit?

how much do i need to shorten it

[errant wren]

it might help to cut down on the anecdotes

[drowsy plank]

the body needs to be 1k characters or less

[glossy holly]

ok i'll cut a few wordsthen

i was just following the instructions to be as detailed as possible!

[drowsy plank]

that's fair

the character limit is new

[glossy holly]

👍

[fleet grotto]

i love this suggestion actually

[indigo yacht]

this suggestion is dumb but i have no complaints

[glossy holly]

i personally don't have a stake in whether or not the devs implement it, like i said in my first (and excessively long) version of the writeup, i have already personally coded a private mod for myself to do this if i want. but i think it's at least, worth considering as an addition to calamity itself as well, to give this choice to every player

[fleet grotto]

why

:c

[indigo yacht]

fishing mechanical factories

and such

[glossy holly]

the base game lets you fish up alchemy tables

[fleet grotto]

i think laboratory crates would make more sense but

[indigo yacht]

but it's consistent with vanilla and an effective way to do it

[keen zodiac]

yeah idk about this one

[fleet grotto]

still

[glossy holly]

the realism isnt an issue

[keen zodiac]

can't you just make factories and such craftable after picking up the sunken sea schematic

[glossy holly]

not if your world doesn't have a sunken sea

[vocal wedge]

There's also a bunch of non renewable lab stuff.

[indigo yacht]

ok but that's such an extreme edge case

[glossy holly]

i mean sure there are a lot of other ways to make nonrenewable lab stuff accessible in other ways

it doesn't have to be fishing

i like fishing more than the average person so it's just my default when i think hey i should make a mod or there should be a change to do xyz. and fishing is also imo easier to make balanced, consistent, and optional given how the vanilla system works

again, the change i suggested i already have a way to do for myself. im not offended if anyone doesn't like, or doesn't want it in their experience. i just want to start and participate in the conversation about improving renewable access to lab stuff

[glass arch]

well yeah

"your world loses access to content if it doesnt have certain content"

you also arent able to use the codebreaker for nearly anything if you dont have a sunken sea

[glossy holly]

you can make a sunken sea if you don't have one

you can't currently make the lab stuff if you don't have it to begin with

[glass arch]

no i mean

you need the sunken sea schematic to make nearly every lab item

[glossy holly]

the sunken sea schematic is also an encrypted schematic

it is explitly mentioned in the header of my comment

[glass arch]

no

it isnt

its by default decrypted

[glossy holly]

i have dug thorugh the public calamity github

it's referred to as encryptedschematicsunkensea in the code

it is in the same category as the other schematics it just is decrypted as soon as you pick it up

[glass arch]

yeah so its by default decrypted

[glossy holly]

now it feels like you are being intentionally obtuse

by definition the sunken sea schematic is included when i discuss encrypted schematics, it is very clearly included in my suggestion to make lab items more available

[mystic sandal]

see no reason why this shouldnt be added honestly

[golden sonnet]

Schematics being obtained without labs I am pretty strongly against, and I don't think the method needs to be fishing, but allowing more things to be renewable could be nice

[mystic sandal]

lets people get multiple murasamas too

also, quick question because i can't find anything about it on the wiki, how does the lab minibiome work?

[glossy holly]

i can paraphrase what i know from digging through the calamity code

calamity extends base tmod's tile detector system to include tiles from its own content, and has a biome detector system for each of calamity's biomes. through those it has a variable that tracks the number of lab-related tiles in player vicinity (lab panels, lab plating, hazard chevron, rusted plating, and rusted pipes i think)

the music only plays though when 3 conditions are met. the tile detector system >150 lab tiles, standing in front of a natural lab wall (glass, obsidian brick, unsafe snow/ice, lavafall, waterfall, iron brock, astral snow/ice, cinder/havoc/elum/navy/onyx/plagueplate, plague containment cells, and every natural lab wall except rusted plate beams for some reason), and within radius of the generated lab

upon worldgen, calamity saves each of the labs' center tiles to the .twld file i believe

and the music will only play if you are within a certain radius of it in addition to the tile/bg wall requirement

[glossy holly]

i expected that some devs would oppose the ability to obtain the schematics out of nothing. you want to encourage players to experience calamity in the "intended" way. the design philosophy is not unlike nintendo's and not necessarily right or wrong.
i understand the frustration of something you designed a certain way being used by players in ways you don't mean for. i think developers are well within their right to be stringent and restrictive on what's possible in their own game design
but i also think from the point of view of a player - different players will want to interact with and experience games in their own ways, and you aren't really going to be able to stop them, and trying to force things "as devs intended" often leads to players feeling like their choice is restricted. and choice is generally a good thing in video games
actually, the way way to implement my idea is to include the same forced radius check as the Engineer's Sanctum theme. that way, the world has to be generated with calamity in order to actually be able to build artificial labs capable of giving the worldgen limited items. now im also for a (for editing purposes) item similar to the sulphurous sea switcher that adds arsenal lab coordinates to a world without them, but that's a much more debatable subject.

[golden sonnet]

It isn't really about forcing a certain experience, it's just that the schematics come from the labs, and there is no reason to go the labs without schematics. It just turns the game into more of a boss rush. There is already the crafting recipes being enabled on pre lab worlds or after obtaining them once to account for issues

[glossy holly]

the best way to explain my perspective, and contrast it to what i assume the popular dev belief is, is to ask: what if someone takes a 100%ed vanilla world, ports it to tmod and opens it with calamity active. analyze that scenario.

the sunken sea, planetoids, astral infection, abyss aren't there. but with incredible patience, hours of fishing and enemy grinding, and sufficient shimmer knowledge, all of the tiles to create those environments can be obtained (with the exception of abyss layer 3 stuff). evil boss 2, aerialite, perennial/reaver, plague, exodium, and uelibloom content are also not strictly locked. but obtaining them is not elegant, and not in a way that totally substitutes worldgen, so it still far more encourages players to just, start a new world and get the intended calamity experience
but notably the labs and crags can't be generated. so the real climax of calamity - exos and scal, are 100% inaccessible without cheating or worldhopping. which is a far more forced kind of design unless the player cheats. you could override it where if the .twld file wasn't created with calamity that the bosses don't even spawn, but i think you realize that's not really worth it

[golden sonnet]

it's not worth making negative changes to the main mod just to help skyblock, if you want that in skyblock that's best served with a different mod

[glossy holly]

between those two design methods, i MUCH prefer the former. it gives the player far more choice, while not substituting what the developer vision of the experience is

[golden sonnet]

It's not forced design to expect people to play the mod by playing the mod

[glossy holly]

i.. don't see how adding options and choices for the player is somehow a negative change

[plush flame]

what would it do for the everyman

[glossy holly]

yes and.. someone going through the effort of manually obtaining mod items, tiles, and creating environments with them on their own is putting in far more effort to interact with the content you created than someone who just went through worldgen and "boss rushes" like you say

giving the player more choices encourages them to interact with your content more, not less

[plush flame]

content mods shouldnt be balanced around people who dont install the content mod when they should

[bold crown]

Yeah, that just seems kinda obvious tbh

[glossy holly]

it's literally not balanced you would have to spend literal hours and days to make this viable

it's nowhere comparable to just going through a new modded playthrough

[plush flame]

the only thing i can see happening is late recipes for schematics in case they get destroyed

[vocal wedge]

I believe you can craft schematics if you obtained them before.

[glossy holly]

yes that is true

[plush flame]

yeah that requires obtaining them

[vocal wedge]

But if for some reason you lost the schematic without obtaining it you're kinda screwed.

[glossy holly]

if the player has obtained them before. but the player can world hop

[bold crown]

Cheat sheet exists

[glossy holly]

none of this really matters

[plush flame]

im mainly talking about people who nuke their hell lab with a double obsidian instabridge which is scarily common, though this can be fixed by adding labs to safe terraformers

[glossy holly]

like again, short of hardcoding a lock on summoning calamity bosses/interacting with its content without the mod having been active on worldgen, you cannot force players to do or not do things in certain ways

my point is. you should discourage it, and through as strong methods as you wish, but not outright forbid it. because you can't force that

i an praising the design of the astral infection, of the sunken sea, of the sulphurous ocean. because the best way to experience them IS with the worldgen doing it for you, but it is not the ONLY way to do that. the player has extra choices

even if that choice is absurdly impractical and ridiculous. i think that choice to do the same with the arsenal labs should EXIST

[balmy hound]

what about making the codebreaker parts not need a schematic to craft?

[vocal wedge]

Undermines the point.

[plush flame]

^

[mystic sandal]

personally i see zero downside to just having this be an option

[glossy holly]

i agree that with the responses, this does undermine the point of having labs, obtaining schematics and progressing along the tech tree to reach draedon @balmy hound

[mystic sandal]

unless you're in multiplayer, you will never actually do this lmao

it is so much easier to just loot the lab

but it exists for the edge cases where you would need renewable sources of lab items

ie shpc or murasama

[plush flame]

murasama should be given the souls dlc recipe

[fleet grotto]

Sorry if this was only brought up but what if you could only get schematics from fishing in the specific biome they're tailored to

[plush flame]

both because its fucking stupid and because its horrid to get

[fleet grotto]

There's no artificial lab

[glossy holly]

yes agreed

[fleet grotto]

so you need to go to the actual lab ans fish in it

[glossy holly]

require the lab coordinates to exist in the world, and you must be both in the lab + the biome the lab exists in

[fleet grotto]

This ensures you need to actually find it to get a renewable source. or something

[plush flame]

i think having them require lab mats (also dropped by armoured diggers which fucking suck to farm) along with their on tier materials is good

that way you still have to find labs

or farm the worst enemy to farm for like 8 hours

[mystic sandal]

make phaseslayer shimmer into murasama lowkey

[glossy holly]

outside of the music box, the engineer's sanctum theme only plays when you are in radius of the lab's saved coordinates. i can't see why any renewability option can't do the same

[plush flame]

and also need the previous schematic decrypted

engineer's sanctum plays when youre in front of lab walls what

[fleet grotto]

well phaseslayer is being eaten

so

[plush flame]

/9

[fleet grotto]

kills me

[plush flame]

how do you even typo to that

[glossy holly]

i have dug through the calamity github more times than you can count

[fleet grotto]

phone, the symbol button was accidentally pressed

[plush flame]

ive nuked labs before and it doesn't play where they were

[mystic sandal]

it needs a couple conditions iirc

but it definitely doesnt just play when you're in front of lab walls

[glossy holly]

like i said literally like an hour ago there are 3 conditions

[plush flame]

i dont backread everything

[mystic sandal]

.

[glossy holly]

.

[mystic sandal]

i dont really get most of it but what i can get understand is:

• near where a lab should be
• standing in front of a wall that would normally be in a lab
• a lot of lab tiles in the area

[glossy holly]

yes

exactly that

if fishing is a preferred route of renewability, i think using the same condition would be reasonable and expected, right?

[fleet grotto]

I'm surprised this suggestion gets so much discussion

[errant wren]

more or less

[fleet grotto]

I just think it's really clean and makes sense

[glossy holly]

again what i ultimately think would be cool, and my motivation behind the suggestion, is to give the player more choice by making the worldgen-specific lab items obtainable/renewable in some way or another
i defaulted to fishing because it's a very easy system to make balanced and consistent with vanilla, while also extremely optional, but it doesn't have to be via fishing. crafting out of armored digger drops as someone said above could also work, as well as other options that probably exist

[novel belfry]

fishing feels lame, they should have minibosses in each biocenter that drops a schematic

[glossy holly]

i do get the criticism that extra ways to get the schematics can make the mod feel even more like a boss rush, but like... doesn't the fact that you can't create an artificial lab, and the condition of needing to be near/in an actual generated lab location, void out this entire line of concern? you're still forced to explore and find the lab lol, just be able to fish up more copies of the schematics, power cell factory, charging station, murasama, logs, etc after you've looted them. while also granting additional choices to worlds such as skyblock, those with bugs/different versions, or ported ones

[fleet grotto]

[novel belfry]

crackpot idea

[vocal wedge]

We have something for that, it's called turrets.

[glossy holly]

what? the turrets don't respawn and are by definition non-renewable? and they don't give you renewable access to charging stations, power cell factories, and security chest items?

[last shard]

Ngl this alternatively could be done by making the stations themselves craftable using the scrap and circuits.

While it's pretty rare, iirc there is a way to get the scrap and circuits via a respawning enemy in the Cavern Layer?

Yeah, Armored Diggers

Making the Power Cell stations, Charging Stations, etc all simply buildable by farming out 1-2 kills of a digger would simplify things extensively.

Could also, if you really wanna stretch some space there, make Plaguebringer Goliath drop some as well.

Or make Plaguebringer just outright drop the furniture outright- it is a boss born in the Jungle Lab.

Seems a little far out to put for renewables all things considered, but I mean it's lorefriendly and would avoid some crate or fishing shenanigans

[glass arch]

no please dont make pbg drop any more shit

i get what you're going for but pbg is a very bad option for it and also it still doesnt make sense from a lore perspective because why would it have that

[rapid pivot]

i mean, you can also run power cells through the extractinator

[glass arch]

which requires you to already have power cell factories which is one of the things the renewability thing covers

[golden sonnet]

A crafting recipe unlocked by a later schematic would work well

[lucid marsh]

I heard charging was going to be removed

So does it actually matter?

[glossy holly]

if the charging station and power cell factory will still exist as interactible tiles, which they should, yes

[lucid marsh]

They would exist but probably not be interactable

[golden sonnet]

charge still exists, just not for weapons

[half imp]

I support the idea of fishing for schematics

perhaps only make it so you can catch one once you're at the point in progression where you'd be able to decrypt it though

[distant gyro]

seeking mechanisms 🥀

[lucid marsh]

Why would you ever need to recharge a seeking mechanism? You get plenty from loot

[half imp]

Those are uncharged

[lucid marsh]

Oh right

Ok but then why not just

Make them charged and break when the charge runs out

That way there's no need for power cells

[errant wren]

something something make power cells part of the normal fishing loot pool and increase the probability in lab minibiomes

crackhead idea i literally saw in a dream

[distant gyro]

power cells are still used for decryption even without the seeking mechanism part

[errant wren]

a second crackhead idea has hit my conscience

[lucid marsh]

Oh right I forgot about that. Not sure they're really necessary even there

[frail fox]

Title says Deus and then the first sentence immediately says Aureus

[indigo yacht]

fire

does this suggestion really have... reasoning

[hollow shell]

@kindred knot ^

Also you definitely don't need the example HP values

[kindred knot]

mb got them confused

[hollow shell]

(and preferably your title wouldn't just say "Changes" and it'd actually say outright to make them killable entities)

[kindred knot]

well erm actually it is changing them 🤓

but yeah i gotcha

[crude geode]

something something change Astrum dues’ name

[hollow shell]

Otherwise, interesting suggestion
It'd definitely change the feel of the fight a bit, give the player more control, and giving them somewhere else to aim aside from the boss which I'm always a fan of

[kindred knot]

yeah, honestly, most bosses plantera onward literally feel the exact same

spam projectile > occasional melee attack > non-stoppable area denial

• some occasionally have enemy summons

idk if its cuz im bad or personal opinion but the most interesting boss in hardmode has been ravager, must fun with a balance of challenge aswell

[vocal wedge]

To my knowledge, most bosses are intended to be reworked. The bad news is that Ravager is very much one of them.

[kindred knot]

well if its an improvement to what we currently have then

should be fine

idk, i really like ravager as a boss, especially near the end where he goes nuts, its stressful but ina good way

[vocal wedge]

I believe the goal is to un-Golem the boss.

[kindred knot]

suppose thats fair, but ravager is definitely less projectile spam than golem

[vocal wedge]

Did you take a look at the concept art for them, it's in the spoiler channel?

[obsidian nova]

What are the two on multi tier interesting?

(Also, who's tiercord?)

[last shard]

Tbh Deus could definitely use the mechanical switch up if it ends up reworked to be Post-ML too, just so it's got more room to be creative with response.

IE: Maybe Deus orb are projectiles plentiful and breakable, but also can deal damage to Deus directly if they contact with Deus' head and no longer fade away over time. Sort of similar in base to Aureus comet-bit minions- Breaking them is a must for opening area space, but leaving some up can help speed along the fight or you can bait the boss into clearing paths for you.

Or the orbs are destructible but detonate upon death

Hell, maybe they end up homing projectiles if ignored lmao

Lots of room to play with the concept of making players target shift to break an area control "minion" more than most minions

[obsidian nova]

Hey could you send me your icon please?

There's literally a vanilla Terraria death message with this meaning

[gritty plaza]

(h₁ and h₂ denote phonemes that we're unsure how the people who spoke this language pronounced it but we know those sounds eventually evolved into the /h/ sound and they were definitely different from each other)

[dark umbra]

||“__ discovered the meaning of defenestration”||

[fossil finch]

Deus' area denial isn't very effective in the first place so this suggestion is redundant in that way we'd say but like the entirety of deus needs to be redone anyway so it's very whatever if they do this temporary change

Deus is so simple u can really just like dodge everything without much space required

[echo leaf]

Tiercord is a Discord server dedicated towards testing weapons and ranking them on a tier list

It is thanks to them that we can say that Phaseslayer is the single worst Calamity weapon in the entire game

[keen zodiac]

it should be below z tier actually

[novel belfry]

ah i see

very cool

[novel belfry]

honestly you should just give Deus the Phase Bombs from DRG

[indigo yacht]

Bloodflare Core and Quiver of Nihility

[severe sparrow]

it should be given its own tier tbh

[echo leaf]

Z is its own tier

It is the only Calamity weapon in that tier

[severe sparrow]

there's some vanilla weapons in it

but yeah i see what you mean

[mystic sandal]

i think it should be at least A due to uniqueness

name any other weapon that can both hurt the enemy on screen and you in real life

[fleet grotto]

Really only you in real life

Not sure if it can really hurt the enemies

[drowsy plank]

@dusk stratus this isn't formatted correctly

[dusk stratus]

oh whoops, i don't know what i'm doing haha

[drowsy plank]

also it could use a bit better reasoning
wouldn't it be easier to just make it so AEW notices when you use rod of harmony? furthermore, you can just buy it from the wizard in the hallow

[dusk stratus]

the wizard sells the rod of discord?

[tardy geyser]

Yes, calamity lets you buy it from the wizard while hes in the hallow, for 10 gold

[dusk stratus]

ah, that's probably easier than grinding a thousand chaos elementals

[dusk stratus]

good point, it's super late at night for me so i can't really put stuff into words properly right now

[drowsy plank]

fair

[dusk stratus]

3am when i have stuff to do tomorrow really hitting different lol

[grave zinc]

@past viper - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Prevent natural boss spawns while a boss fight is already ongoing]

It has been voted upon by the devs, and although it did not receieve enough positive votes to pass, the final results were very close.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[errant wren]

i see

[lucid marsh]

Huh

[last shard]

Doesn't base cal already do this a lot, like the Starter Bag, default Dash to kickstart Hermes Boots and higher, faster movement speed and higher jump height, etc?

[crude geode]

why tf are we reopening Pandora’s box leave the convo alone

[last shard]

Because it's funny :3

[half imp]

calamity should change about vanilla whatever we feel like is needed for a good experience and nothing more

I do not think natural boss spawns being able to happen during a boss is a problem that we need to fix

the more vanilla things we change the more likely it is to run into mod conflicts

especially when this likely requires an IL edit

[drowsy plank]

dont do that

[errant wren]

i think we argued for so long about it but not once did we remember to like. think about its viability of implementation

oh well

[frail fox]

@keen grotto transformer is reworked in the next update to something completely different

[keen grotto]

https://tenor.com/view/fig-gif-26092737

[keen zodiac]

also your suggestion is formatted wrong

so note that for the future

[keen grotto]

👍

[keen zodiac]

@iron gulch this breaks like literally every suggestion rule i think

read pinned doc

[vocal wedge]

That's what I was thinking.

[iron gulch]

But that would be so cool

[vocal wedge]

I don't think that's what the suggestions are for.

[mystic sandal]

not a balance suggestion or a specific rework

[errant wren]

[mystic sandal]

i dont think it falls under effort intensive?

wait why does accessory slots have its own category on the blacklist

[keen zodiac]

lol

[errant wren]

reference. though it's vague enough to get away with not being big on effort

[errant wren]

and then i think this is balance hell reasons

[mystic sandal]

yeah i 100% get why but like

its own category

how many people asked

[keen zodiac]

enough

[errant wren]

well i mean if it has its own section then probably at least 3

[golden sonnet]

look at how many people use wing slot

that is your answer

[errant wren]

-# even with wing slot i suck at the game

[drowsy plank]

just gonna delete that

[errant wren]

gonna assume that it was a scam

-# i always miss the 50$ steam cards

[glass arch]

no its the sugg that was just in posting

if it was a scam it would have been in every channel

[errant wren]

oh yeah.

i uh

sorry i like

uh

i may be stupid

[half imp]

every time I miss one of these "this broke every rule" posts I wonder what they were

[vocal wedge]

Asking to add an anime weapon.

[coral carbon]

At that point that poster could've just commissioned it, instead of asking on the suggestions of a completely unrelated mod

[half imp]

okay, adding the Fragrant Flower that just opens the show and does more damage per episode you binge in a row

but yeah that makes sense

[golden sonnet]

This is frequently the case. If you just want a single cool weapon to be added, it either already exists, or would not be super hard to commission/make a mod for yourself

it's the desire for it to be in calamity that's the issue

[half imp]

I have a single cool weapon I want added

too bad it seems actually incredibly difficult to make work how I want

trying to give an outline that looks good to any arbitrary NPC is quite difficult with terraria drawcode

[golden sonnet]

Same, but it's stuck in dev hell at the moment because I cannot code complicated things for the life of me. I might just put it on the taiga at this point for someone else to do, but I also wanted to be able to make it myself

[half imp]

if you want advice on any specific parts lmk, I can at least try to give ideas on how to do it if I have any

[golden sonnet]

I actually have a similar issue lmao, where it's a marking/indicator placed on any NPC (although mine is more on mechanics than visual)

[half imp]

considering the Summon Tag system does something similar i could probably help with that

[golden sonnet]

I gotta go work on a project so will be busy for the rest of the night, but will try to remember when I have time as I do want your input

[half imp]

sure thing!

[fleet grotto]

good luck developers

[glass arch]

cog post the gif

[last shard]

did I fuck up on the sugg?

[glass arch]

asset hell

[last shard]

Fair.

Suppose it'll forever be a pet peeve lmao

[glass arch]

theres nothing wrong with it itll just be stuck in asset hell for years like most of the other vanity/block suggs

[errant wren]

hallowed brick and ancient hallowed brick

[drowsy plank]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/465195069406707722/1392668647440519238/spriter_hell.gif

[humble scarab]

Doesnt vanilla gonna add hallowed stuff?

Im pretty sure about hallowed furniture getting added but not sure about the bricks

[last shard]

Checking over vanilla news, furniture only

No bricks

[humble scarab]

Damn

[uncut fog]

I would change the suggwstion to clarify that, ex "getting some hollowed items" to "getting some hollowed furniture"

[burnt crescent]

I want Genesis Hamaxe to be real.

[keen zodiac]

your suggestion needs a title on a separate line, and some kind of compelling reasoning

[burnt crescent]

Genesis Pickaxe is a thing and Hamaxe isn't. Is this reasonable enough?

[golden sonnet]

No, many pickaxes don't have hammers, axes or hamaxes. Instead explain how the other lunar picks have a hamaxe, but genesis/meld does not

[echo leaf]

where is picksaw hammer counterpart

[odd wind]

i ate it

[gilded citrus]

Possessed hatchet

[dense ravine]

is that even a hammer

[drowsy plank]

no lmao

[vocal wedge]

It's a hatchet.

[dense ravine]

back of a hatchet could hammer

[drowsy plank]

obviously it is just a really sharp hammer that's why it's a boomerang like paladin's

[last shard]

The side of the picksaw could hammer

Just slap it really hard

[dense ravine]

i conclude

everything should have hammer property

[drowsy plank]

dirt block hammer

[dark umbra]

dirt hammer

[last shard]

Dirt wall hammer

[dark umbra]

unsafe spider wall hammer

WAIT

[last shard]

Use the dirt wall to break the dirt wall

[dark umbra]

spectral feather hammer

I love spectral feather

[last shard]

Soul of Light Hammer

Butterfly dust? Believe it or not

Hammer

[dark umbra]

magnum round hammer oh wait

[last shard]

Evil Smasher?
No why would we give that hammer properties :p

[last shard]

Bouncy Mortar Round hammer

[dark umbra]

yes

peak

[last shard]

Bouncy mortars are broken man

Such a funny digging tool

I love excavating all of the Corruption from my world instead of purifying it

[dark umbra]

demolitionist mindset

[novel belfry]

i should suggest giving the Carton of Milk an additional Calcium Potion effect

(the pot will be reworked into decreasing kb, but currently just makes you immune to fall damage)

[tepid crown]

fire suggestion

[tepid crown]

@delicate fable #suggestions-voting message

simply an issue of no sprites

[delicate fable]

wdym

ohhhh

but they may add that in a future update in that case so that's nice

[whole tundra]

#suggestions-posting message

[hollow idol]

campfires are planned and on the todo list
however spriter hell

[drowsy plank]

wasnt there already a passed suggestion about this anyway

[gilded citrus]

ye

[crude geode]

11 months ago yes

[tepid crown]

11 months ago cuz ppl keep telling other ppl its planned

[delicate fable]

[gilded citrus]

And its been 0 major updates since

[errant wren]

sso is coming ssoon

[distant gyro]

metarex is on torch and campfire duty but the sunken sea gorechopping is currently in priority i think

there are 3 new torches. bold move in increasing the amount of campfires needed

[keen zodiac]

lmao

[last shard]

@delicate fable Have you considered using Ashen or Ancient Basins?

They carry the same dimensions as Campfires and already look astoundingly like one for the said zones

(Ancient is a little chipped, Ashen is whole. Your call.)

[last shard]

?????

[crude geode]

It’s a bot

[timber flint]

its a scam bot

[last shard]

I get that

But like tbh how

I'm more curious of why only in this chat lmao

[timber flint]

its in a few

[last shard]

(already modmailed about it)

awww

[timber flint]

it cant post elsewhere bc of image perms

[last shard]

I thought the bot was broken before it got burned out :(

[timber flint]

just report it via discord in the scam section in the meantime

[last shard]

anyway back to wiki bs

[mystic sandal]

Hey speaking of bots THE FUCKING SUGGESTION BOT BROKE AGAIN OH MY GOD DISCORD

[golden sonnet]

@inland saddle bot dead : (

[keen zodiac]

[humble scarab]

[bold crown]

Here lies suggestions bot
2025-2025

[echo leaf]

suggestions bot given the gift of life

immediately dies

[vestal crater]

I laughed to this

My humor is dead

[dense ravine]

dead

like the dead 3

[indigo yacht]

suggestion to change tdr to a flat damage reduction?

or is that also being changed in some way in sso

[golden sonnet]

Timed damage reduction?

It's only used in the 2 challenge fights, no reason to change it imo

[half imp]

yeah I think it's fine

goodness what if I made a DoG challenge fight tdred to the music

[golden sonnet]

Agony

[gilded citrus]

tdred?

[half imp]

peak

[drowsy plank]

t(imed) d(amage) red(uction)

[drowsy plank]

there's a DoG challenge fight?

[golden sonnet]

"what if I made a"

[drowsy plank]

oh i see

okay to be fair i though the "i made a" was making an existing dev branch DoG challenge fight have tdr fit to music, not making it from scratch

[half imp]

no there's no dog challenge fight

I have been thinking about it the last few days though

[gilded citrus]

Welcome back devourer of universes

[keen zodiac]

🎉

[drowsy plank]

honestly it would be cool since it could make cosmic discharge and norfleet guarnteed drops if you beat it

[keen zodiac]

why does dog get 2 legendary items again

can you move one

[drowsy plank]

kinda like how moonlight provi dropped both items
i know that's not a thing anymore with provi being biomeless next update, but i think it would be neat if challenge bosses were guarnteed to give every item

[half imp]

I don't want to

[keen zodiac]

norfleet as an exos drop would be neat

[drowsy plank]

ture

[drowsy plank]

this would also line up with empress giving 100% terraprisma during daytime, while it's only 25% normally in cal

actually idk if that died either

[frail mantle]

we could make a new mode that makes every boss harder and make items like cosmic discharge or norfleet exclusive to that mode

[drowsy plank]

[frail mantle]

maybe in this hypothetical new mode, every boss is enraged and gets faster and does more damage

but what to call it...

[keen zodiac]

uhhh
malevolence?

[golden sonnet]

Master...

[drowsy plank]

malice was bad because its AI was dogshit, and also because difficulty exclusive items were being phased out anyway

[frail mantle]

doesn't exactly roll off the tongue

maybe something like...

demon spider mode

[drowsy plank]

honestly if the legendary drops just became master exclusive items like how expert has expert exclusive items (since i think the cal changes where everything just drops in normal died?? maybe?? idr) i wouldnt really mind

or if they were just guarnteed in those difficulties, while in lower ones they had normal drop chances, then i wouldnt mind that either

like if normal BoC had a 10% chance to drop brain of confusion, and expert Plantera had a 10% chance to drop blossom flux, and in master it was just a 100% for all difficulty based items

idk

[frail fox]

Changelog 719

[drowsy plank]

doesnt norfleet have a right click and is therefore legendary or am i forgetting

[novel belfry]

No

[drowsy plank]

oh huh neither of DoG's 10%s do

funny

[keen zodiac]

tf does non legendary even mean 😭

[novel belfry]

I haven’t touched normal in a bit (read: literally never), so I could never tell you

[frail mantle]

old 1% drops i guess

iunno what makes new legendaries count but it covers most of them

[frail fox]

https://calamitymod.wiki.gg/wiki/Legendary_items + The Old Reaper

[oblique birch]

promotion

[severe sparrow]

i think thats a SRS

[hollow shell]

You uhhh cannot split suggestions into multiple messages. That's not how our system works

@kindred knot Your suggestion is a little all over the place

And generally it is a faux pas to make a boss nerf suggestion during / immediately after you experienced trouble with it. (We even have a dedicated section about this in the Suggestion Guide doc pinned)

You should really cut it down to one specific major thing you think should be changed about the fight
Instead of providing a bunch of little ideas

[kindred knot]

blame character limit 🤷

[kindred knot]

i also posted that i may be a bit bias but i do enjoy the fight

its just

the little things

hence why

little mini-suggestions

[fleet grotto]

CV is also receiving a change where it will no longer be able to move unless you move too far

[kindred knot]

idk how i feel about that, i like its reactiveness its just TOO reaction

reactive*

you give CV an inch and they jump a mile

[hollow shell]

(oh wow look at that, that was the last changelog before Fab got the boot #changelogs message )

[fleet grotto]

lol!

[hollow shell]

I'm uhh
I'm telling you that you can't do that. Literally the suggestion will not properly go through like that, it won't process.

[indigo yacht]

eh, i guess

[hollow shell]

If your suggestion is so long that it takes up multiple messages then that's an indication that you need to cut your suggestion down.

[indigo yacht]

"didn't read suggestion rules" instance number 879268

[tardy geyser]

Wall of text has awoken!

[indigo yacht]

i mean it's segmented quite nicely its not that bad

[indigo yacht]

i assume that they've already been informed and I don't need to ping them extraneously

[kindred knot]

whats to prevent other people from lying then??? thats a kind of stupid rule

[hollow shell]

You don't even need to include any ideas in the suggestion for the changes you think the boss should have. In fact it's often better if you don't.

You can just say that CV is too difficult. It deals too much damage, it takes too little damage, and it's too evasive and hard to hit. Just to indicate to the devs that the fight needs to be looked at.

[indigo yacht]

lying about what?

[dense locust]

what does lying have to do with anything

[glass arch]

this isnt a discussion about lying this is literally just saying that the sugg will not properly go through if its put through multiple messages

nor will it go through if its over the character limit

[undone cedar]

Suggestions are sent to the dev server by a bot

So thats why it needs to be a single message

[tardy geyser]

Yeah it would be sent as 2 separate suggestions as its 2 separate messages right now.

[kindred knot]

oml

ill ahnge it

christ bro

[hollow shell]

Sorry if we're being overwhelming or nagging at all

I'm just trying to make sure your suggestion is actually valid so that the devs can see it

[fleet grotto]

dw ithink you're being reasonable

[kindred knot]

reworded

[indigo yacht]

why is the second one crossed out

[hollow shell]

would indeed be better to just erase it because character space is valuable

[fleet grotto]

yeah

[indigo yacht]

cv damage is being altered iirc in sso because of the revengeance/death mode changes

and cv being stationary applies to the second part but if it's being removed that's not relevant

[mystic sandal]

Personally I think, if anything, we should be moving other bosses up to CV’s level

Rather than nerfing him to the level of the other sentinels

[vocal wedge]

I think they should make Ceaseless Void a good boss.

[indigo yacht]

we dont do miracles here only suggestions

[mystic sandal]

And yet the auric flying carpet thing happened

Explain that

[bold crown]

CV's fight isn't horrible, but also not amazing. I feel like because of how bland the other two are, CV actually feels kinda fun to fight

[indigo yacht]

ceaseless void is not a difficult boss to fight, rather it's a difficult boss to understand
if you know how to fight it (similar to exo mechs) it's not too hard, although it still is usually a small challenge if you don't have a route memorized
if you don't, though, it feels random and unpredictable

exos are a much better example bc you can literally just move in a straight line and dodge everything but cv is in the same boat

[tardy geyser]

Imo reduce the amount of dark energies, but increase their health

[drowsy plank]

you're still 600 characters over the 1k character limit

furthermore, for a boss balance suggestion, this is nowhere close to the necessary burden of proof to actually get any changes in

your suggestion is entirely various changes to the fight instead of proving why the fight needs to change whatsoever

[plush flame]

#suggestions-posting message

[vocal wedge]

Sprite hell.

[drowsy plank]

@graceful swallow this is three suggestions and two of them are already in changelogs

[plush flame]

eutrophic glass wall spritesheet is larger than leviathan's

[drowsy plank]

im pretty sure someone already finished those glass walls, i think there is already mentions of new lab tiles, and the last one isn't even a tile, that's a completely different issue, which i think has also already been addressed

[graceful swallow]

Well I guess I should read the changelogs closer next time.

[tepid crown]

not wall

just glass

[inland saddle]

Hmmm

It's online and responding to pings

Maybe in my latest attempt at fixing I introduced a new bug

Ah

Yeah

I introduced a bug

https://i.gyazo.com/7734c0df1bf009ff02795d3ff4cce5bf.gif

[plush flame]

coder hell

[inland saddle]

Live bugfix reaction

[tepid crown]

well you should be taking care of the bug

it might be lonely

:c

[vocal wedge]

Extermination.

[tepid crown]

NOOOOOOOOOOOO

[inland saddle]

Bug squashed

Don't worry

Pretend it's like Groal

Not like anything else from that game

[graceful swallow]

Wait, does the new lab tiles include a non rusted pipe?

[tepid crown]

pretending its savage beastfly

🙏

[graceful swallow]

Bilewater my behated

[inland saddle]

Alright let's see if that fixed it

Pogger

[oblique birch]

bot is alive no way!

[graceful swallow]

Turns out i can not blockswap on astral ore

[fleet grotto]

essense of eleum frost legion

[dense locust]

true!

[obsidian nova]

Yeah, the wall one is even larger

[obsidian nova]

I mean duh

[grave zinc]

@indigo yacht - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Inform players of Calamity vanilla balance changes on weapons and equipment]

It has received enough votes to be passed on to the dev server for voting! You'll be notified again when a verdict is reached.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[vestal crater]

Yooo this is peak

[dense locust]

I can imagine the mass amounts of complaints about weapon nerfs that have been in the game for years

[keen zodiac]

true!

[glass arch]

yeah

[golden sonnet]

People still think zenith is bad in calamity

Not trying to like, straw man. But you really can never win when it comes to vanilla balance changes

[grim tusk]

We should clearly nerf its dmg by 2/3 and make is post-ML
Or make it dev tier

/j

[obsidian nova]

Pretending it's primal aspid

[serene acorn]

Hi. Um... I always wanted to know what would others think if Yharim had a face... so what do you think guys?

[severe sparrow]

it looks coool

but he does have a burn on his face

[serene acorn]

I see... do you have any suggestion how would it be? Because I always saw full hurned faces and his skin was red . Like red skull from marvel. But them how we would explain his hair while he is wearing armor?

[severe sparrow]

i would say maybe have his face half burned?

[serene acorn]

Hmm... it depends on how he feel in lava. I mean maybe some of lava jumped on his right eye . A little higher that eyebrow. And hid left check to his neck burned as well.

[serene acorn]

Ill try draw him like that too

Oh and do you know where is can send my Calamity arts? I didnt found the chat for it here

[severe sparrow]

calmodtalk or general media should work, although there's an art server

the calamity art server, it should be in #other-discords

[serene acorn]

Thank you

[serene acorn]

Sadly there isn't but thanks for guide

[golden sonnet]

#info

[serene acorn]

Thx

[indigo yacht]

i mostly just suggested it for clarity, even if you put the cal buffs people will still think zenith sucks

[last shard]

FWIW on that suggestion, the Colossal Squid on Expert has 260,000 HP, 50 Defense, and 300 damage a hit. That's the same per-hit damage as Moon Lord's Phantasmal Deathray.

[vocal wedge]

People will say anything.

[last shard]

On an enemy with nearly the same TOTAL health as Moon Lord as well on Expert (260k C.Squid versus 280k Moon Lord)

[plush flame]

avoid it?

[last shard]

Y'know. For a pretty common enemy who spawns in the same tier of the game where Moon Lord is supposed to be an on-tier major boss? In a zone actively hostile to players?

It's not like Scourge where it's passive until struck either, and also unlike scourge enemies here are actually worth hitting- Summons also will frequently this enemy too while farming Scoria.

[plush flame]

dont summons not target passive enemies in the abyss