We almost got a Pikmin reference in calamity but we had to suffer the consequences of their actions and now we can't have it
#suggestions-discussion
fossil finch
golden sonnet
if you are going full renewable, might as well add dungeon brick, and more importantly a way to get dungeon furniture to your post
fossil finch
what about virtually every worldgen statue or underground cabin or underworld city painting/banner
fossil finch
We almost got a Pikmin reference in calamity but we had to suffer the consequenc...
Sir Goolix Ghost grave will always be remembered
polar bison
Dungeon paintings could be painter during a blood moon or the likes. Maybe it cycles through like 3 dungeon decos
some statues should really get heavy workbench recipes
lavish condor
I think painter's inventory is a bit full to add dungeon paintings iirc?
fossil finch
No?
hollow shell
obligatory mention that characters and worlds are separate entities, and a character can visit multiple worlds
Each playthrough being confined to only one world is a standard we've come to accept but the player will always have non-cheat options for obtaining an infinite quantity of even one-of-a-kind items
polar bison
While I get what you're saying Rover, there's still the value of having the option to obtain these items in a world confined character.
hollow shell
It is indeed true that, in pretty much all circumstances, we design the game around players only using one world per playthrough
But I'm just sayin
The option is always there, and it's an option that isn't Cheat Sheet
polar bison
Yeah, that is fair.
These suggestions are just food for thought anyways. These aren't meant to be definitive solutions for a problem that isn't really that severe (except for Brimstone Slag, I like building with it and actually did run out in my world)
hollow shell
It is indeed far easier to run out of Brimstone Slag than blocks like silt and clay, cuz it's all confined to one location rather than worldwide
I coulda sworn that Despair Stones dropped it at some point but maybe I'm misremembering
polar bison
Some other people said that too
maybe they do and the wiki just missed that
no offense to you! your ability to edit the wiki down to small numbers terrifies me to this day
fossil finch
No they don't it just makes sense they'd do
fossil finch
i will remember for eternity the fact a feature went entirely undocumented for like a year until I pointed it out
polar bison
WHAT
fossil finch
i love fabsol adding random mechanics that no one remembers exist an are completely undocumented ingame
hollow shell
The vanilla changes page is a nightmare
I don't think I've ever heard anyone talk about velocity-based contact damage
fossil finch
no
No one does
It's not documented it's not noticeable ever and because vanilla didn't do it no one goes in expecting calamity makes it like that
swift wharf
i swear abyss gravel was renewable
hollow shell
Voidstone is renewable
fossil finch
It's now relegated to that one page filled with random arbitrary changes nobody really cares about normal people miss it
swift wharf
ah that makes sense
fossil finch
I'd make a suggestion to purge half the vanilla change page if i didn't knew it'd never pass
crude geode
Thanos snap it
fossil finch
Dr formulam.,,,,
swift wharf
the wiki is free to edit 
hollow shell
If a tree falls in the woods--
If an obscure factoid gets removed from the wiki, and nobody notices it or complains about it and it has no negative effect on anybody's playthroughs,
was it ever there in the first place?
fossil finch
Worst part is that it is
sullen swan
finite sediments
quiet kernel
imo based sugg
drowsy plank
dude didnt even put brim slag on there which is like the most useful non-renewable biome block rn
atomic shell
just make it drop from brimstone crates lol
drowsy plank
yeah
hollow idol
atomic shell
small timber
@eternal cave
(in case you are still writing the suggestion)
because from what I see there is nothing you can change to make the suggestion valid because it will always be adding a specific item (in this case a reference item nontheless which is even more specific)
blazing kettle
are people really gonna be hurting for these items though
thats the big thing
also alchnpc and cheat sheet exist
eternal cave
so can i not suggest the addition of a new item
small timber
you can but it cannot be specific to the point of having laid out name and stats
eternal cave
oh ok thanks
small timber
"function" maybe, but overall you need to give a pretty good reason as to why the item like this should be added
tldr
"add zhonya hourglass" = no
"add an item that provides you with temporary invincibility that can be used to dodge attacks" = maybe (a very rough maybe), if you give it good enough reasoning
eternal cave
Thank you:)
eternal cave
@small timber do you think this looks good or will it get shut down? #suggestions-posting
blazing kettle
me when
also a little nitpick but the mod is balanced around expert/revengance difficulty, and malice is not even in the mod anymore
eternal cave
nononono i think its different because normality can lead to you getting hit by cringe projectiles while unnamed league of legends type item would give you some protection from running into a projectile
wait i didnt even know
but still it would help for death and maybe no hit challenge players
blazing kettle
nohits are especially not considered in balancing
and again, why have that when normality dislocator is just a plain ol teleport
eternal cave
i think normality is cringe plus it would be a sick combo to tp away then stasis
also it would be really easy to code in because permafrost has like the same mechanic
blazing kettle
i need somebody ti explain this better because im failing to gather the words to explain why this sugg isnt that great
eternal cave
i think calamity mod needs something like this to happen
if this doesn't persuade you i don't know what will
blazing kettle
i cannot tell on whats going on
crude geode
@frail mantle sis
half imp
me when spectral veil
small timber
tldr it is an accessory that provide you with basically temporary invincibility but also you cannot move/act at all (hence why it is "stasis")
but yeah spectral veil exist and the suggestion is still a bit too specific and lack in reasoning, because Rod of Discord kind of already fill the same role except it is movement based instead of halting movement
I think spectral veil is the most direct comparison because it does exactly what the suggestion want but even more powerful as it dont stop you from acting
eternal cave
can i defend it by saying spectral veil benefits rogue while my item could benefit all classes
small timber
you can try to, but generally rod of discord is already regarded as the "panic button" item (especially with normality relocator)
and to be honest the main problem with the suggested item is just, there is nothing you use it on that will not be just cheesy
eternal cave
i mean whats the problem with them implementing a different panic button option that can either be used with or have to be replaced with normality
small timber
people will just use it say during yharon's bullet hell and dodge the entire thing (if it is long enough), or things like Ares' end of blender (which is when it is the hardeest), or Thanatos' beam
if it is too short then it also benefits you in other way in that you basically press the button to just phase out of attack, it is a free out of jail card
the difference is that in league because it is a pvp game so the enemy can react to you, anticipate when the stasis end and basically time it right and you are severely punished (while you can also use it to dodge important spells)
in terraria the bosses dont react to you
eternal cave
i think the stasis should last approximately 2.5 seconds just a random number i happened to come up with on the top of my head
it would make the item hard for you to time it where theres no risk at all
small timber
overall I think the mods marked it as having specific function (which I actually think the suggestion is like, loose enough on it at least) because tldr it is just iframe but disables you, the same concept frequently come out in other game or even fargo
tardy geyser
This just sounds like purified jam
small timber
but ya imo the issue with the suggestion is entirely different (for me is balancing issue)
tldr purified jam yes, but less unintuitive/free (because you can move) and have risk attached to it, and also no random amount per world limitation
tardy geyser
Except takes an accessory slot instead of giving potion sickness
small timber
which is supposed to be the main drawback yes (that and cooldown I guess, depend on how long they give it)
basically dodge effect but less lame because it is not automatic
eternal cave
the thing is the difference with purified jam is it is not an accessory so it would be different
i think likee a 90 secend cooldown would make the item pretty balanced like a different type of ninja belt dodge
blazing kettle
this is the same kind of teleport as rod of discord right?
excelt the caveat of incivnibility at the end of it?
eternal cave
its not a tp
small timber
if it share cooldown with actual dodges maybe (aka you cant use it with other dodges, but you instead get an active so you dont randomly proc it at timing you dont want to)
blazing kettle
oh
small timber
but yeah now the problem is first try to get it unmarked
(I didnt see a clear explanation as to why it is marked, specificity maybe? for me arguably it is already really not that specific because there are a lot of other games have effect like this)
crude geode
replying doesn't work
crude geode
edit it
the original message directly
also delete the reply
I highly consider this accessory because I feel like Calamity mod doesn't have an accessory like this and would be a good addition to how accessory's could be used.
except...it kinda does in spectral veil
eternal cave
i think if they added this item it could be like a melee class version of spectral veil because it could give like a damage buff or a small heal or something like that for every attack you dodge
crude geode
lost valley
small timber
well last time I tried to suggest different healing pots it is denied so yeah this suggestion is probably a hardsell, eventhough to it open different defensive options (eg: if make it share active cooldown with dodges which currently have the problem of proccing on random things) so yeah chances are not gonna happen
eternal cave
Btw how long does it take before ik if its approved or not
small timber
24 hours for it to enter voting, then if it have enough vote it will enter developer server after 2 weeks, then the developers decide whether to approve or not
in this case it have the ❗ which means the mods think that the suggestion have issue (normally due to violating Suggestion Don'ts or have weak reasoning) therefore it will not even entering voting
tldr currently it is dead in the drawing board
frosty trellis
people will just use it say during yharon's bullet hell and dodge the entire thi...
(And if you have problems with stuff like Yharon's BHs or BLENDER then just.... Tank build)
eternal cave
Yea but you could also say that about normality relocator or void sash dodge or even god slayer dash; all ability’s that can make BH very easy
drowsy plank
fair ^^;
people just kept talking about trying to fix it and i couldnt figure out why lol
half imp
a better suggestion with a similar idea would be like "make spectral veil enable stealth on all classes" or something tbh
still would be very niche for other classes, but at least usable if they wanted
frosty trellis
That would make an already broken accessory even more broken
cobalt pewter
that'd be terrible
stealth should be accessible without armor, not with every other classes
armor set is a big limiter to stealth to me
swift wharf
the player should have innate stealth
and only work when you're holding a rogue weapon
small timber
or just make spectral veil's iframe effect use the same cooldown as dodge (the one on like ninja belt/eclipse mirror)
when it is off cooldown it is just a normality relocator with some stats
grim tusk
or just make spectral veil's iframe effect use the same cooldown as dodge (the o...
This made the accessory complete ass
drowsy plank
F
small timber
This made the accessory complete ass
thats the point, if it is too weak buff it, currently the iframe is equivalent to a dodge (or better) but slapped on a ROD CD instead
grim tusk
Veil must be strong to compete with other accessories and the op shit that is NR
Its a great tool when used well
But it has to be great cuz otherwise it has no point on being used
if only NR didnt exist
If it shared the dodge cooldown with other dodges you’d want to just use abyssal mirror instead
Which used to be the case for a big while
small timber
you know what will be an instant way to make spectral veil good even if it take an accessory and share cooldown?
cobalt pewter
~~if only NR didnt exist~~
clearly y'all should make it an acc 
grim tusk
We did try that to some extent
small timber
you cant remove the item but you can nerf it
grim tusk
NR felt horrible after that
drowsy plank
doesn't NR already have boosted Chaos State
crude geode
Yes
golden sonnet
~~if only NR didnt exist~~
I kinda like normality relocator because it isn't a strict upgrade, as it's cd is longer, but also understand why it can be unbalanced
small timber
5 seconds more (20)
drowsy plank
cant we just buff some other aspect of veil if it really is bad
drowsy plank
lol
swift wharf
remove nr so people use veil more
grim tusk
cant we just buff some other aspect of veil if it really is bad
Veil has 15% stealth regen already 
drowsy plank
yeah i dont really play rogue so i didnt know if it was good or not lmao
it sounds like this whole convo is kinda pointless so w/e lol
crude geode
It’s the hundredth conversation about NR/RoD/Veil
grim tusk
Veil’s main issue is opportunity cost.
It has to be strong to be worth using.
Too weak and people just will use Abyssal Mirror and NR
Additionally if it shared dodge cooldown its basically useless when you get Eclipse mirror
small timber
But it has to be great cuz otherwise it has no point on being used
https://docs.google.com/document/d/17SUHBgjAjO2BKks2WkgJ7M4kGQFcCEgRTPhfttLid_o/edit?usp=sharing tbh seeing "accessory must be great because otherwise it has no point on being used" remind me of this
but yeah personally I rate spectral veil effect way better than dodge so I think it is fair that it should be treated as a dodge
it can given other stats to compensate, but currently the iframe is just stupid on a too low cooldown
grim tusk
Veil is great but it still faces heavy as hell competition
Mirror as mentioned
And from more all class defensive accessories
And from offensive side it faces even more
small timber
none of the dodge effect is controlled invincibility (which is the case for Spectral Veil), many of them can easily proc on things you dont want to dodge and enter cooldown
main advantage of spectral veil is that you have full control of when you want it to happen
if you think 90 is too much you can even make it so spectral veil is 60 (special in that way), something like that
grim tusk
Then the accessory is horrible for a full minute
small timber
it can given other stats to compensate, but currently the iframe is just stupid ...
which is why ^
if it is a decent accessory even when the main effect is offline it will be good
it dont exactly have to be ethereal extorter/nanotech kind of good, but if it have some stats it will be more than usable
grim tusk
EE is getting nerfed fyi
small timber
yeah I dont know how nerfed it is so I can only refer current version
small timber
and armor pen I guess
serene tendon
5 seconds more (20)
Yeah, that's enough of a difference
serene tendon
Then the accessory is horrible for a full minute
Charm swapping 2.0
glass arch
@lone cradle wrong channel lmao
undone cedar
I think that is just a really badly written suggestion
glass arch
oh yeah that could also be the case
orchid briar
Fairly certain they're asking for skeletron to not do damage right after spawning
lone cradle
yeah
fervent orbit
wait wot happened
drowsy plank
bro just made the worst fucking suggestion of all time
@fleet steppe im sorry but actual skill issue lmfao
drowsy plank
what
they're talking about randomly removing some projectiles from plant's boss fight for no reason
this sugg is fundamentally flawed, there is no fixing it lmao
glass arch
what im seeing is asking for the projectiles to be despawned when plants defeated
not completely removed from the fight
fleet steppe
I say that once the boss is dead, they disappear, so that they don't get in the way
drowsy plank
oh that is the worst worded way to say that ever
orchid briar
The suggestion seems perfectly fine aside from a change in formatting
drowsy plank
i read it as randomly removing some projectiles from plant rematches because you beat it once
regardless yeah despawning projectiles on boss death isnt a bad idea, but in the meantime you can just use nycro's to do that
fleet steppe
oh that is the worst worded way to say that ever
I can edit the message if it was not understood, my English is not very good
drowsy plank
yeah you also didnt format it correctly so you need to do that anyway
north oracle
It’s not a bad idea, just explained poorly
swift wharf
do this with all bosses
fleet steppe
yes
drowsy plank
"i dont like building housing in other biomes cal pls fix"
not only does this not seem like a cal thing i just
dont get why you would want this
do you just not like pylons??
blazing kettle
this sugg is too big an addition to be put in calamity
grim tusk
@fleet steppe add a title to your suggestion
@sweet mural what spark said + happiness being jank to work with on Tml (its not even fully implemented)
sweet mural
i will just remove the suggestion then.
sweet mural
"i dont like building housing in other biomes cal pls fix"
my main reason for this was just that i like having all the NPCs in one place.
grim tusk
my main reason for this was just that i like having all the NPCs in one place.
Which your sugg did not address much
fleet steppe
<@912338222829428746> add a title to your suggestion
<@668610546362220544> what ...
ok
i add the title
grim tusk
If you want all NPCs on one place with no consequences use the no happiness mod
grim tusk
i add the title
Perhaps expand the reasoning a slight bit
frosty trellis
If you want all NPCs on one place with no consequences use the no happiness mod
(Or the happiness config byeah)
grim tusk
The 🗜️ goes away on its own in a while
glass arch
and either way pylons make happiness management really easy to get around
fleet steppe
Perhaps expand the reasoning a slight bit
ok
cobalt pewter
@fleet steppe just get Nycro's Nohit Efficiency mod
tbh
why does EoW need to be similar to DoG
they have no relations whatsoever
just focus on expanding the sentinels (and maybe the labs to some extent) for foreshadowing DoG
worldly basalt
this seems like a bit too big of a sugg, but i do agree with the idea tbh
mental olive
if it wont for not wanting boss death suggestions i would have had DoG kill slime god
worldly basalt
DoG jumpscare
mental olive
lol
drowsy plank
i swore we already had a sugg about adding the sentinels "patrolling" their domains
which i think would do enough tbh
mental olive
which i think would do enough tbh
that would be under a dif thing
drowsy plank
im saying your sugg is entirely unnecessary
and rune of kos makes sense for what the sentinels are
mental olive
yes but think that right now it feels like after them there are only 2 bosses at most before dog
serene tendon
@fleet steppe I personally disagree with this because "tying" boss fights is more satisfying even than beating the boss normally. Also it'd be quite abrupt and sudden.
grim tusk
Im unsure this is an ❗
mental olive
whos post
small timber
The suggestion explanation/content feels to have nothing to do with the title
small timber
It feels like a "make sentinels' spawn item more unique" suggestion instad of a DoG build up suggestion
grim tusk
^
Which why I was unsure of exclam
Actually it doesnt even elaborate as to why changing sentinels and the space log would be beneficial for foreshadowing DoG
100% exclam now
small timber
I know this can be like spoiler, but isnt sentinels lore getting somw tweak next patch so they might even loose some lore connection with dog?
mental olive
i guess as DoG feels very sudden in a way other endgame bosses don't as every post moon lord boss is or has is is build up
small timber
I mean providence feels very sudden if you dont count profaned guardian
grim tusk
I know this can be like spoiler, but isnt sentinels lore getting somw tweak next...
Also yes Sentinel lore is being reworked
mental olive
I know this can be like spoiler, but isnt sentinels lore getting somw tweak next...
i thought they where connected to DOG already
grim tusk
i guess as DoG feels very sudden in a way other endgame bosses don't as every po...
Polterghast and Old Duke
small timber
In this case storm weaver kinda? Is a foreshadowing, not a good one though
small timber
I think the only thing it need is like, make some of the sentinels attack resembling dog and that will be enough
worldly basalt
ceaseless gets a couple lasers i guess
mental olive
Polterghast and Old Duke
polter needs post providence items to summon duke has an event beforehand
grim tusk
How does that Polt argument even make sense to you
Also its even false
Polt can be summoned before Providence
mental olive
Polt can be summoned before Providence
oof bad memory but it requires a grind to fight
grim tusk
oof bad memory but it requires a grind to fight
So does DoG
mental olive
and the non item spawn might as well be a mini event
worldly basalt
many bosses can spawn under certain circumstances
for example deerclops
but anyway the difference is that polter and old duke aren't very story-important unlike DoG
they just kinda exist
drowsy plank
DoG has Sentinels, Provi has Guardians
they're literally almost identical in purpose
mental olive
So does DoG
the pre dog grind is power up items or you have the items
grim tusk
Phantoplasm or Sentinel drops have to be grinded
mental olive
DoG has Sentinels, Provi has Guardians
same as polter you need to kill enmity's in a biome than it gives you a spawn item or lets you make one
worldly basalt
my question is why are the phanto spirits pink and polter is blue like the normal spirits
pink polter when
mental olive
... the last faze
swift wharf
polter is pink inside
grim tusk
my question is why are the phanto spirits pink and polter is blue like the norma...
Polt is an amalgamation of all spirits
swift wharf
polter is transgender
mental olive
omg
worldly basalt
make it so you can toss a gender swap pot onto polter to make him pink 🤯
mental olive
i need that as my profile pic
small timber
Providence is a 1 boss build up that you fight right away
Old duke is a 1 event build up that dont even foreshadow the boss because you have no idea of its existence unless you use boss checklist
Polterghast has 0 build up other than the message you get from killing phatom in postML dungeon
On the other hand DoG has 3 minibosses you need to fight (normally) and it is not a buildup?
worldly basalt
Polt is an amalgamation of all spirits
counterpoint: pink is a better color and i want pink polter to exist
grim tusk
Yea his argument doesnt stand
mental olive
whos
grim tusk
Yours
worldly basalt
pink polterghast is an infallible argument
small timber
worldly basalt
pink polterghast is an infallible argument
also, arent all of polter's drops pink too?
cobalt pewter
dog gets way too much love for being a mediocre boss carried by music (and probably sprites)
grim tusk
also, arent all of polter's drops pink too?
Yes
small timber
His/her is different, you/your pretty sure is universal
And yes, the argument being flawed still stand
worldly basalt
is there a pink polter resource pack, i need this
grim tusk
is there a pink polter resource pack, i need this
No
worldly basalt
damn guess i have to make it myself
cobalt pewter
plus there aren't any resource packs for modded content (yet)
worldly basalt
this is so sad can we get 5000 likes
swift wharf
colored calamity re- fuck
worldly basalt
mod that changes literally like 4 sprites lessgo
grim tusk
considering Calamity English Translation exists
Maid Calamitas is equally as bad
worldly basalt
screw it make EVERY calam boss pink or purple for no reason other than they are epic colors
mental olive
Good for you
lmao its more the ones with short foreshadowing have you defeat lots of enemies before but dog has bosses you wouldn't fight for dog drops
grim tusk
DoG normally needs:
Guardians
Providence (who drops the rune)
All sentinels (which’s materials make DoG’s summon, not to mention their lore item)
cobalt pewter
Maid Calamitas is equally as bad
at least Maid Calamitas actually has effort, good or bad
Calamity English Translation is literally nothing.
like it doesn't even have anything
grim tusk
at least Maid Calamitas actually has effort, good or bad
Calamity English Trans...
:true:
swift wharf
move sentinels to earlier in progression and suffer from people forgetting about them
/still doing them right before dog
grim tusk
Folly has that problem already 
small timber
You cannot just say there is no setup by completely ignoring thr setup
small timber
And yes, both providence and sentinels are actually foreshadowing for dog, lorewise at least
swift wharf
tbf folly has the ripper upgrade
foreshadowing the literal next boss
it's not foreshadowing if the lights are already on
mental olive
DoG normally needs:
Guardians
Providence (who drops the rune)
All sentinels (whi...
yes but you dont try to go out of your way to get the spawn as you get it from provi and look a summon and oh look they have pre good polter loot
grim tusk
Thats a you issue
swift wharf
the only other mention of dog before ML is the drae log
small timber
Yes a you issue
grim tusk
Besides if you go towards sentinels and their drops
small timber
You
mental olive
yea i am a nightmare with pacing (i liked the pre universal nerf pacing)
worldly basalt
most vanilla bosses you get told about AFTER they spawn lol
swift wharf
lmao
mental olive
most vanilla bosses you get told about AFTER they spawn lol
who has never played vanilla but has calamity
worldly basalt
why though
grim tusk
¯_(ツ)_/¯
swift wharf
tmod players figuring out a vanilla feature be like
worldly basalt
imagine if someone went in this server and asked what a demon altar is
drowsy plank
bro the pacing literally has not changed before and after the universal nerf what are you talking about dawg
robust cove
imagine if someone went in this server and asked what a demon altar is
oh boy
celest tundra
👍
mental olive
Besides if you go towards sentinels and their drops
it feels like you go more out of your way (even though you dont) for summons but in boss order you would have already killed sentinels
like you dont go for most bosses just for a summon you go for the loot
i could probably describe it better but that will be when im not tired as can be
drowsy plank
you have to fight guardians just to get provi spawner 
and almost no one fights them for the relics
mental olive
but than they are a testing ground for post ml weapons
small timber
like you dont go for most bosses just for a summon you go for the loot
in fact some of these are some of the strongest item in the entire mod, others are at least good/viable
half imp
mirror blade and spectral veil stand out as insane
small timber
thunderstorm is also pretty good, cosmilamp not sure how it does nowadays because calamari and warlock fist exist
half imp
mirror blade casually being one of the best melee weapons for yharon
mental olive
thats why would get sentinels beforehand
small timber
mirror blade is stupid
mental olive
yeah
half imp
thunderstorm is also pretty good, cosmilamp not sure how it does nowadays becaus...
cosmilamp is good but not insane
small timber
thats why would get sentinels beforehand
you have the option to fight sentinels before providence
small timber
it just is
mental olive
supreme calamari
small timber
and as stated, providence herself is a build up to DoG
so you cant even say "oh you fight sentinels so close to DoG there is no build up" when the boss you fight previously is also a foreshadowing
mental olive
the best way to describe where im going for is all the bosses chain to the next
like if your struggling with provi go for sentinels
half imp
like if your struggling with provi go for sentinels
that's literally what you can do rn
mental olive
that's literally what you can do rn
thats what i mean
half imp
what
mental olive
sentinels dont feel like your going out of you way to fight them
worldly basalt
what do you even mena by that
mental olive
as other summons feel like your going out of you way or like your getting better items
worldly basalt
?? you have to be in specific places for the sentinels
mental olive
same with wof. wof feels like your going for hardmode
small timber
I dont think it need to be reemphasize that "sentinels actually have good item" but here it is
you dont just fight them because "you must fight them before DoG", in fact you can skip them all and straight to DoG if you want; but their drops are useful that you will want to get out of your way to fight them
frosty trellis
(Hell, can use their drops to fight polter to get even better shit from him since that do be standard progression)
mental olive
"ike your going out of you way or like your getting better items" for the next fight eg polter
cobalt pewter
Mirror Blade is kinda bland? I don't think people really bring it up much, let alone its mechanic
small timber
in fact you can even count items crafted from the 3 materials which is a lot
frosty trellis
"ike your going out of you way or like your getting better items" for the next ...
It's not "out of your way" though
cobalt pewter
I'm not the biggest fan of the clockwork rogue weapons (especially with their stealth strikes being kinda ech), but Cosmic Kunai is fine outta those weapons
mental olive
it can be only 1 or both
frosty trellis
The spawner drops from providence or is easy to craft
You kill 3 fairly easy bosses since you're kinda prompted too by the spawner you get from providence
How is that "out of your way"
mental olive
no but your going for the items
worldly basalt
yea thats what you generally do for bosses
fervent orbit
dont you go to polter for items to
frosty trellis
The point
fervent orbit
worldly basalt
you fight wof to get to hardmode cause you want to get the hardmode items
frosty trellis
Going for polter is the same as going for sentinels for items
fervent orbit
if u rlly want to go into it, only 13 bosses are required for progression
frosty trellis
^^^
fervent orbit
so ur "its only for the items" arguement makes no sense
worldly basalt
if u rlly want to go into it, only 13 bosses are required for progression
actually only 1, just use cheat sheet to spawn scal :troll :
i fucking hate the discord troll emoji
mental olive
fervent orbit
actually only 1, just use cheat sheet to spawn scal :troll :
"erhm aktually you need to do both scal and exos for low% to count🤓"
worldly basalt
"erhm aktually you need to do both scal and exos for low% to count🤓"
just spawn shadowspec with cheat sheet. 0 bosses required
mental olive
just touch grass -1 bosses to beat
worldly basalt
"woah the boss have loots"
personally, i fight ceaseless exclusively for the potion 😎 😎
just kidding i just use the luiafk thing with the item magnet
mental olive
rip afk magnet
fervent orbit
also the "no buildup" can go to every main boss
robust cove
just kidding i just use the luiafk thing with the item magnet
same
fervent orbit
"wheres the build up for wof??" "where for ml?? you just kill one boss and do some terrible event?"
do you understand how you can twist this for all the bosses
small timber
especially that that argument is used on a boss that currently do have 3 buildups (5 if you count providence and guardian) that you just choose to not do
mental olive
im so tired i has ne brain
frosty trellis
The only required bosses are:
- WoF (Hardmode)
- Any Mech (For mythril/orichalcum)
- Calclone (For Ashes of Calamity)
- Plantera (To get Endothermic Energy)
- Ravager (Cores and Life Alloys)
- Lunatic Cultists
- Moonlord
- Guardians
- Providence (Uelibloom needed for codebreaker)
- DoG (Cosmic Anvil)
- Yharon (For Auric stuff)
- SCal
- Exos
Anything else by your argument would be considered "out of your way to get better stuff" as it's not required in any capacity
small timber
you can ask for "better build ups" like making it more obvious that sentinels are a foreshadow for DoG by eg: making their attacks/behavior resembling DoG; but NO build ups? no it is just flawed
fervent orbit
The only required bosses are:
1. WoF (Hardmode)
2. Any Mech (For mythril/orichal...
this would need drunk world to complete
the alternate would be skeletron + ftw
iirc
fervent orbit
low% is usually done on drunk world because people like to keep their sanity
golden sonnet
why skeletron needed?
fervent orbit
why skeletron needed?
wire for codebreaker
golden sonnet
oh, I forgor
fervent orbit
you can ask for "better build ups" like making it more obvious that sentinels ar...
i can probably think of one attack for each of the sentinels that mimick dogs attacks
storm weaver gets an aggresive charge attack
signus gets godslayer fireballs
cv gets lasers (cuz yes)
frosty trellis
CV already has laser from the laser balls back when DoG used to have that
robust cove
i was going to say that
frosty trellis
Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah I don't buy that
grim tusk
The only required bosses are:
1. WoF (Hardmode)
2. Any Mech (For mythril/orichal...
Providence also needed to mine auric
fervent orbit
the crates in question:
frosty trellis
Providence also needed to mine auric
Auric Ore is obtainable from Titanium Crates post Yharon
glass arch
The only required bosses are:
1. WoF (Hardmode)
2. Any Mech (For mythril/orichal...
even mechs arent required because of fishing
frosty trellis
even mechs arent required because of fishing
(I don't count bugs)
glass arch
fair enough
thorn tusk
The only required bosses are:
1. WoF (Hardmode)
2. Any Mech (For mythril/orichal...
u dont need to kill ml to fight yharon
the dragonfolly summon can be made post pillars
yharon can be killed pre ml
frosty trellis
u dont need to kill ml to fight yharon
You need moonlord for Guardians and Provi
frosty trellis
They are required for the Codebreaker
thorn tusk
They are required for the Codebreaker
eh dradeon not really req
thorn tusk
u can just killed yharon then scal
frosty trellis
Moonlord is required to beat the game
Because you need Luminite for Cosmic Worm to skip Sentinals
Since you can't make the Altar of the Accursed or Auric Bars without a Cosmic Anvil
frosty trellis
Yeah
crude geode
you can ask for "better build ups" like making it more obvious that sentinels ar...
This ^
half imp
Because you need Luminite for Cosmic Worm to skip Sentinals
and need luminite to get rune of kos anyway, right?
or drop from provi which needs moon lord to summon
or does rune of kos need profaned essence
frosty trellis
or does rune of kos need profaned essence
Needs both
But you can skip sentinels anyways
half imp
yea
drowsy plank
it's better to skip folly and just kill ML and use swarmers for feathers lmao
frosty trellis
^
north oracle
ML has better loot
cobalt pewter
...why not nerf defense instead?
I mean I see what you're gunning for and I can see it work on certain attacks
but making it somewhat global just because defense is stupid is
?????
swift wharf
or make the attack ignore defense/dr
cobalt pewter
the sugg as it's intended just seems like trying to dance around the real issue instead of facing it head-on
plus debuff bloat
instead of having multiple fire debuffs now we have a debuff just for a single instance of attack, done multiple times
like what
and I forgot to mention that they've tried this before, just not with debuffs
remember provi's damage stars?
yeah I don't think I need to elaborate further
surely they removed it for some reason
small timber
"nerfing defense globally" can cause more issue than expected (same with buffing it) so I will not do that for now; +defense is nerfed next patch (warding in particular) so before I try that out I will not attempt to nerf it even further without a good basis/expectation of how defense do
for the suggestion I specifically avoided all reforges and only use minimal potions, I actually had less defense than I would had next patch at that point because ironskin will be stronger
thus with that out of the way, there are 3 ways to "solve" this:
1st way is to make it ignore defense/DR which just equal to you just take a shit ton of damage no matter what if you accidently touch the attack with your toe, further incentivizing just stacking iframe to take lesser attacks to avoid them (so doesn't solve iframe issue)
2nd way is to make it have a separate iframe to other attacks, eg: you can get hit by ares' arm attack and blender at the sametime; however this can cause stupid amount of burst damage taken in an instance before the player can react, this can be seen from providence's star
so the 3rd way is make it do both 1st and 2nd without being unfair, and one of which is of course the one I suggested which is to make it a debuff; the distinct difference between this and providence's star is that you can never get bursted from this because the amount of damage you take per second is literally capped, while solving both problem above at the same time; while it being a debuff also makes "ignore defense and DR" (basically what debuff does) fairer as you have to stay in the area of the attack to take damage rather than accidently moved 1mm to the left and 90% of health bar gone
tldr I think this is the most logical solution to achieve what the suggestion mainly want to achieve "to make these 'ultimate attacks' more impactful" while still remain relatively fair
small timber
they can just move the community debuff damage reduction as life regen on debuff (which is currently part of what community does) but yeah; or otherwise make it specifically ignored by community
have to deal with it if the suggestion get enough votes in the first place
(if I am not being clear I mean remove the debuff damage reduction and instead compensate it with more life regen for this part)
fervent orbit
mmm yes lets make it astral arcanum but also a stat stick
ye i think the debuff bypassing community is a better idea
small timber
mmm yes lets make it astral arcanum but also a stat stick
this sounds stupid but being an astral arcanum + stat stick is already what community currently does, just instead of direct life regen if reduce the debuff damage instead (which is actually better than life regen because it ignore regen nerf at high HP);
for example it is 2 (+2) life regen for vul hex, 2 (+3) against god slayer inferno and 2 (+4) for dragonfire; so if you buff the 2 that community already have to like 5 and make it scale (with boss, up to 5) it is about equivalent
the number actually get even more stupid in death mode where debuff damage from enemy are increased by 50%, so it is actually a nerf if I do it that way
half imp
honestly
instead of debuff dmg if they wanted to pierce armor they could use negative healing
but I don't think it should do either
(strengthening debuffs is an option but it shouldn't be the primary damage, i should specify)
versed cape
@mental olive the sentinels are the foreshadowing
swift wharf
👨🦯
versed cape
?
fervent orbit
calling u blind because we already said this
hollow shell
tbf the sugg is still in the channel and still unedited
Well, its edited, but
The complaint is still valid due to the sugg's lack of elaboration, is what I mean
They want earlier foreshadowing
Not just immediate precursor bosses but also some stuff in Hardmode (or PreHM) that hints at him existing or building up his presence
Currently I think the only thing is that one page of the Draedon planetoid log describing its armor
(fun fact we planned on doing exactly this before the exodus)
drowsy plank
lmao damn
hollow shell
They want *earlier* foreshadowing
Not just immediate precursor bosses but also s...
... this is what I am assuming, at least, from their examples.
mental olive
it is what i mean
hollow shell
(We had ideas that I won't go into in case it's still spoilers/leaks)
drowsy plank
besides like, exactly EoC flying in the background of vanilla possibly being applied to DoG/Sentinels, it'd feel weird to have items themed around him earlier or something
hollow shell
it is what i mean
You should edit your sugg to make that more clear I think
You can adapt what I said into first-person if you want :P
You didn't
need to erase everything else
And it still says "They"
god damn it I really don't wanna go through this again
drowsy plank
spring saffron
It would be cool to see dog portal and eat a wyvern in the background with a really rare chance or something in hm
crude geode
God
mental olive
if it wasn't for not wanting death animations i would have had it show up in the end of the slime god fight
crude geode
That reminds me of a(n ancient) sugg to make it so dog can randomly appear and kill you
mental olive
hmm i wonder why random instakills are a bad thing
drowsy plank
yeah i mean normal terraria has plenty
hollow shell
if it wasn't for not wanting death animations i would have had it show up in the...
That would be funny
swift wharf
dog jumpscare
worldly basalt
Killing slime god at 3am!!! (Gone wrong) (gone sexual)
novel belfry
instead of debuff dmg if they wanted to pierce armor they could use negative hea...
YES, I MISS THAT SO MUCH, even though it was infuriating back then
drowsy plank
tbh provi stars weren't even that bad, 90% of the time i died to those stupid ass blobs because they were hard as hell to see and position around
provi literally goes out of her way to stop and then does an extremely telegraphed bullet hell attack where she's immune so you don't have to waste your time attack her, etc.
like idk why people had such an issue with it lmao
i feel like it was prolly removed for compatibility/mechanical issues moreso tho so i doubt it's coming back ever
half imp
and apparently people actually use it
why
half imp
not usually bc boss fights disable spawns
unless you disable the config option for that
fossil finch
this last sugg mmmm
i do not think
its good to deny every single defensive manaover the player tries ever with more and more weird mechanics and stuff
we have the dr formula, defense damage, and absurdly high damage values that HAVE gotten nerfed before because people complained its unfair
golden sonnet
Yeah, I agree defense can be broken, but making it useless is just as bad
fossil finch
but we are still going "mmm achsually the mean attacks should still be worse"
quasi wigeon
Yeah, like classes that are meant to be glass canons like mage or tanks like melee shouldn’t be invalidated imo
fossil finch
and like, this sugg completely goes over the fact its not just that damage
its that damage and the fact you've got hit before
and the fact you are going to get hit after
golden sonnet
Give exos a hit cap : )
blazing kettle
hit cap?
fossil finch
fucking crying
hit cap is what scal did years ago
where if you got hit more than x times youd die automatically with no way to evade it
blazing kettle
oh
drowsy plank
truly a calamitous mechanic
golden sonnet
Old scal was wack, I remember when she didn't even make an arena, so you just flew across the whole map.
And the fact she used to set a minimum damage of 200 while she was alive, so defense was nearly useless
hollow shell
its good to deny every single defensive manaover the player tries ever with more...
yeah actually yknow what with you saying that I feel significantly worse about this suggestion
I would much rather halve the DPS output of players using defensive builds than to fuck over the thing that they're building into
novel belfry
This
swift wharf
That would cause people to use defensive builds less
What is the point of having a tanky build if you can't tank a really strong attack
frail mantle
i'd say strong attacks should be survivable with a tank loadout but still hurt a lot
frosty trellis
Yeah not just:
frail mantle
and, as in the proposed example, having a third of your health chunked away is indeed a lot
frosty trellis
Having the debuff would make it so all the weaker attacks in a tank build don't really affect you, but all the "big ultimate attacks" still do, and then affect everyone equally in that regard so balanced builds aren't punished for not being tanky enough
soft quest
Yeah not just:
eh. I'd call that fair; assuming most of that damage reduction came from adrenaline
frosty trellis
No
Adren doesn't give DR when you use it
It gives damage
Adren DR is if you get hit when adren is full
frosty trellis
The Adren DR is if the bar is full and you get hit before you can use it, you take 50-65% less damage depending on the adren level
It just gives damage if you use the adren meter
The DR wasn't from Adren in that clip
That was from my pure tank build
soft quest
nvm then yeah I see how that's broken
glass arch
me when tank builds
soft quest
Yeah not just:
question
how is defense damage not making consecutive hits destroy you though
glass arch
DR
frosty trellis
how is defense damage not making consecutive hits destroy you though
I have like, 400 defense and 37% Dr
glass arch
granted because DR scaling is a thing it doesnt make you completely immortal but its still kinda stupid with high amounts
swift wharf
dr ignores defense damage iirc
frosty trellis
Yep
frosty trellis
is that from the upgrades or
Each upgrade gives 5% to the Dr yes
swift wharf
Makes sense
soft quest
I have like, 400 defense and 37% Dr
your damage seems to be ass though unless ares gets dr during the spin
not saying that balances the ridiculous tanking abillity though
glass arch
thats bc tainted doesnt scale with damage iirc
frosty trellis
your damage seems to be ass though unless ares gets dr during the spin
The damage being bad is mainly because I'm using an extremely shitty weapon
Tainted Burning Sky
Is the only t.melee weapon to ever exist
That kills twins faster than the other mechs LOL
(Tainted not scaling with damage + Bsky not supposed to have tainted in the first place = horrid as fuck)
crude geode
This debuff idea sounds fucking wack
soft quest
a defensive build, similar to guarentee dodge cooldowns, is one of those things that probably is not broken in bad hands and broken in good hands
swift wharf
tainted burning sky sounds cursed
soft quest
because if you're dragging out a fight that would be bad to a lot of players, except for the good players who can just dodge and recover with the aid of ridiculous armor, regen, and iframes.
fervent orbit
tainted burning sky sounds cursed
it is
swift wharf
p much a true melee mage staff
soft quest
I honestly think defensive builds is perfectly fine after the invent of defense damage
swift wharf
clueless
fervent orbit
you literally saw someone tank thru blender beam
half imp
dr ignores defense damage iirc
no
swift wharf
HUH
half imp
defense damage changes DR proportional to the amount of defense lost
half imp
if you have 100 defense and 50 lost, you'll also have lost half your DR
crude geode
Funny
soft quest
you literally saw someone tank thru **blender beam**
I can't wage my opinions because im not great at the game but If I, and many other not great players tried that, it probably wouldn't have worked out for me. I think ive gotten adrenaline like, once in mechs fight .
soft quest
a defensive build, similar to guarentee dodge cooldowns, is one of those things ...
hence:
swift wharf
I must go back in time and kill ironskin
swift wharf
The DR wasn't from Adren in that clip
Brother
fervent orbit
plus adren dr is only for one hit
soft quest
why r u bringing adrenaline in this
its not my main point, im not talking about adrenaline DR. im talking about the fact that he was good enough to nohit during exo mechs for that long
half imp
i mean
swift wharf
why is that relevant
swift wharf
^
fervent orbit
its like tanking thru a dog bite taking like 5 dmg and then saying
"oh wat about the cosmic guardians"
glass arch
if i tried to face tank exos it would fail horribly
swift wharf
cosmic guardians die if you sneeze on them
swift wharf
Ya
swift wharf
Two sneezes
north oracle
is there any other debuff stacking i can do other rhan rusty beacon with yatveo bloom and abyssal amulet?
fervent orbit
who? me and doze?
soft quest
if you're getting hit frequently and dragging out a fight for a less experienced player, it would be balanced and you'd eventually falter because you aren't killing the bosses fast enough. Im saying that if he was good enough to nohit for 20 seconds in exo mechs, then he would be good enough to abuse defense and recovery much greater than a worse person. Get my point?
glass arch
theres also the fact that most calamity players (from what ive seen) have a strong anti tank mindset and will avoid tank builds
crude geode
theres also the fact that most calamity players (from what ive seen) have a stro...
This is the only reason defense hasn’t been nerfed lmao
Not enough players abusing it
fervent orbit
u scream "ive never used defense build"
north oracle
tank is awesome
glass arch
because im one of the people that i referenced
fervent orbit
just use astral arcanum on scal and realise that ull never take dot dmg
crude geode
Byeah defense deserves Nerf or something idk
glass arch
from what ive seen a lot of players dont go out of their way to make defense builds
thats not to say it doesnt need a nerf
fervent orbit
probably cuz they think defense cant save them (it can)
soft quest
if you're getting hit frequently and dragging out a fight **for a less experienc...
same thing with guaranteed dodges. for a bad person, 30s dodge cooldown is balanced. For a nohitter, that's a free fucking fight.
fervent orbit
for a nohitter you wouldnt be using dodges
theyre banned for a reason
also we do have that
its called evasion scarf
serene tendon
@small timber Sounds like what you want is True Damage. True Damage is damage that ignores any kind of reduction. Couldn't GLBoDs (Giant Laser Beams of Death) in general be given true damage, as well as any other very "powerful" attacks? Seems like a better solution for me
golden tulip
true damage seems stupid
imagine building tank and you still get damaged for the full hit
drowsy plank
you're just talking about provi stars
golden tulip
i guess
drowsy plank
this is literally just provi stars
serene tendon
you're just talking about provi stars
Provi stars are the only True Damage attacks Cal has yet, yes
fervent orbit
ok but this is on the "cool" attack
glass arch
didnt xpc specifically say in the sugg that he doesnt want it to deal true damage
drowsy plank
yes
fervent orbit
wat part of provi stars do u see cool
drowsy plank
what does that even mean lmao
im just talking about the idea of true damage
this sugg and the whole concept just seems
bad
like we removed provi stars, DoG head instakilling, SCal hit limits, etc. because they're just bad mechanics
this is just that but with a different name and slightly different implementation
serene tendon
like we removed provi stars, DoG head instakilling, SCal hit limits, etc. becaus...
What, do Provi Stars not do True Damage anymore?
drowsy plank
they haven't for like
fervent orbit
no
tardy geyser
Since 1.5 ye
neat linden
More likely 1.5.1 i remember it still being a thing in 1.5.0
B'yeah around that time
serene tendon
That doesn't seem right... Especially since I joined during 1.5 (after biome blade rework) and remember them doing True Damage
tardy geyser
Next update is nerfing defense modifiers anyway if face tanking is still an issue after then I could see a suggestion like this being approved
golden tulip
you guys remember those specific patches 
drowsy plank
also again, this seems more like trying to bandaid the issue of tank being too strong by making attacks even stronger rather than addressing the actual issue
you're treating the symptom and not the cause
golden tulip
its all just the past to me
tardy geyser
Yeah might have been 1.5.1
neat linden
there we go
drowsy plank
what patch?
neat linden
drowsy plank
okay yeah that makes sense
hollow shell
I liked the anti-heal stars for the gimmick of them
It was cool and unique, you interacted with them differently to other attacks and it was something players remembered as being an aspect of the fight
I don't like the concept so much when it is used to intentionally fuck over the concept of building into defense,
though I realize that in most contexts the end result is the same
((tbf in Prov's case they were balanced out by the actual healing stars))
fossil finch
i think calamity should not just be so nuthead obsessed on making everything tightly balanced because it is clearly failing at that aspect
hollow shell
That is also something to consider, yes
fossil finch
ultimately i think this sugg overgoes to the point of why you play the game (fun) and therefore it is bad because it does not
(my actual point here is that people do not spec into things as extremely as most think they do; they have no idea, they're just trying to have fun, and if they survive an attack thats very big because of having specced into a tanky build thats probably fun for them
we do not balance things because waaawaaa player is not having fun MY WAY we balance them so player can have fun period
Artistic (design) choices being respected also matters but ultimately balance is so the game is fun
cobalt pewter
too much focus on balance is ironically an imbalance
fossil finch
like this sugg wants to happen because it wants heavy attacks to have their intended specific outlined use as heavy attacks exist for all players in all cases and thats just not reasonable
undone cedar
too much focus on balance is ironically an imbalance
So for real
hollow shell
Trying to have super tight balance in a game like Terraria was a mistake in the first place
This isn't League of Legends or Project M or.. iunno, Bloons TD Battles 2
fossil finch
we dO not have to be obsessed with trying to make everything fit neatly into their supposed design outlines, specially not with bosses where minor details change every other patch because thats just how fab develops™️
but thats just my opinion!
the right opinion
game theory outro play shere
hollow shell
the right opinion
errant bobcat
I just say if every item has a niche where it is somewhat viable or at least something for challenge runs it’s fine
fossil finch
i dont think it has to be viable i think it probably just has to be fun
hollow shell
"every item" is a dangerously broad category when considering the scope of Terraria and Calamity Mod
fossil finch
something someone out there is actually using and couldnt be easily replaced by something else
tiles arent viable
theyre just pretty for building
be it buildings or natural enviroments
blazing kettle
no clue if this has been suggestion has been, well suggested before but i want to suggest a message that pops up in chat when you break a demon altar that hardmode ores have a different spawn method. could I improve on this before posting it in #suggestions-posting
fossil finch
also yeah we have 200 broadswords i think its too crazy to make each one niche viable
the fix to that is simply removing things but that's somewhat forbidden still
you could do that butlike
the hammer tooltip has that
if you arent reading that kinda skill issue
blazing kettle
the popup in chat is a bit more obvious thab the hanmer tooltip
drowsy plank
there are multiple places you can find out about the spawn method thing. like idk maybe on breaking the first one you could have something
fossil finch
even just from hovering above it for picking it up to have it in your toolbar players who already know its use would be able to see it
also wof death has the ore spawn message too iirc
blazing kettle
but peiple actually look at chat to see which ores that spawn when breaking altars, so that would be the best place to put it imo
the other ways are easy to miss
fossil finch
we should really jut make calamity intuitively tel you everything
drowsy plank
i think the lack of a message and the souls popping out are enough
along with the hammer caption and the config
fossil finch
this would be done by removing all shitty hidden vanilla changes so thats first of all feasible
drowsy plank
lol
fossil finch
then youd add idk i m not game designer
truth is you cant do it
well have to add the calaunomicon or whatever
drowsy plank
we call that wikithis
undone cedar
When u have calamity mod installed the chat is constantly spammed with random information about the mod
🥺
blazing kettle
not that i know of
fossil finch
wiki this doesnt do jackshit
drowsy plank
lmao
fossil finch
it just opens up the fucking wiki
drowsy plank
yes the joke is that the only way you could tell someone about everything in the game is sending them to the wiki
undone cedar
not that i know of
I think it should
fossil finch
its true actually
swift wharf
i love the usage of external mods
fossil finch
you open up calamity
you get a chat about the wiki
in 5 seconds you get a chat about the existence of the summoner pentalty
in 3 seconds you get a chat about the dr formula
swift wharf
just make the pwnhammer have a cool glowing effect
fossil finch
i n a second you get a caht about thefucking reactive contant damage speed mechanic absolutely no one knows or talks about
swift wharf
and kill everyone who still won't notice the change because people like that shouldn't reproduce
fossil finch
in a milisecond you get every vanilla change spammed in your chat
itd be so awesome
undone cedar
Ikr
drowsy plank
truly making the calamity mod good is a sisyphean task
golden sonnet
and kill everyone who still won't notice the change because people like that sho...
The amount of times I have seen people report issues about fandom, after it was made to spam your chat makes me lose more faith in humans every time it happens
swift wharf
at least sisyphus' boulder didn't get heavier
fossil finch
just remove the boulder
fossil finch
insane allegory for just making calamity again without all the shitty weight on it
swift wharf
: )
fossil finch
TRUE kill sisyphus
blazing kettle
why have 50 places where newer cal players dont often look when you could have just one place where the chat tells you that the earoy hardmode progression is different
fossil finch
)sisiphus was lready shot
swift wharf
or delete the mountain
drowsy plank
u keep bringing up reactive contact damage but frankly the fact no one is saying anything about it just means its working lmao. i feel like it was just supposed to be a sort of QoL/gimmick, not like a major mechanic lmfao
undone cedar
Remove everything
undone cedar
No more boulder, sisyphus, or mountain
fossil finch
like what would it be
undone cedar
the mountain
Terraria
swift wharf
mountain is terraria
undone cedar
The mountain is terraria
fossil finch
true simply make a pikmin fangame
undone cedar
Calamity is a pikmin mod
fossil finch
u keep bringing up reactive contact damage but frankly the fact no one is saying...
i think its kinda the contrary
Its absolutely meaningless nobody notices its existence
fossil finch
its formula isnt even on the wiki so i couldnt know how it works
swift wharf
is to not play the game
swift wharf
ender pikmin is supposed to be good
fossil finch
i would be very mad if it added a fucking cirruss pikmin/captain so maybe you are right
like i do not even have a big problem with cirrus as is but i would go on a murderous rampag eon that situati
undone cedar
Scary
swift wharf
those words aren't in the bible
swift wharf
according to fandom cirrus isn't real so it must be true
undone cedar
Yeah
fossil finch
based
bright crag
Yeah not just:
That issue wouldn't be solved with debuff attacks, it'd be solved by nerfing the ultimate effectiveness of tank builds
And yeah, we shouldn't completely bypass defense like this
People build towards defense to take less damage, and having an attack designed to bypass high defense would be toxic to tanking
Specially when you consider that defense damage already exists to prevent tanking consecutive hits
crude geode
Indeed
bright crag
And, as mentioned above, Providence stars had an anti-heal feature that was removed
(Despite being pretty balanced, since the heal stars countered that)
crude geode
I did like the healing stars they were pretty neat
bright crag
If this feature was removed in a case where it was mostly ok, why would it be included in a scenario where it's not ok? Which is why I brought this up
small timber
Since I keep seeing true damage pops out as an argument, there is a key difference betweem debuff damage and just antiheal that ignore defense and DR:
You take antiheal/indefensible damage in bulk, aka you get touch once you take (eg: provi star) 150 damage, and you can take it again if you run into another star so it can instantly kill you in some case (eg: if you accidnetly run into the centre)
The intent of debuff damage is to do the complete opposite of that: it can never burst you instantly because they max damage you can take is capped to the damage of the debuff, on top of that with how the suggestion specified you have to stay inside the area of the attack to take full damage, because a 0.1 second debuff applied constantly means if you leave the area you just stop taking damage, so in most case as long as you are maneuvering and not mess it up (eg: run along and fly exactly with blender beam) it is way more than dodgeable
In this sense even something like 350 dps can be a bit low because you will have to stay an entire second inside the beam to take that damage, it actually in most case make tank build easier just at the sametime solving iframe issue with these attacks; the intend of the suggestion is not "punish tank build" but mainly to resolve sloppy plays that should be punished (eg: facetanking specifically) which is what calamity want to discourage anyway
On top of this all of the attacks mentioned in the suggestion are not just "powerful", they also have an extensively long telegraph to prepare you for whats about to happen
drowsy plank
it's still just trying to fix the symptom rather than the root of the problem
hollow shell
Okay the phrasing of "apply a 0.1 second debuff constantly that deals 350 damage over 1 second" in the sugg was very confusing to me
It sounded to me like you specified the duration of the debuff twice
And initially like you were saying "a debuff that inflicts 350 damage in 0.1 second", i.e. basically like you just took 350 as a hit of damage, the difference being that it couldn't get affected by defense or DR or post-hit-heals
I understand now that you clarified at least, and I'm trying to think of how better to phrase it
"apply a 350 HP/s DoT debuff that has infinite duration as long as you're touching the laser, but clears instantly once you aren't", maybe
small timber
"nerfing defense globally" can cause more issue than expected (same with buffing...
^ defense will be nerfed as since I havent experience the nerfed version myself I am hesitating to suggest to nerf it further
But the main thing is defense is not just a tank build only thing, all builds except nohit use tank stat, mindlessly nerfing it can cause problems globally that are unexpected (eg: artemis' plasma bolt suddenly deal half your hp in damage not just blender) so I will rather try to fix the attacks that have this issue in more specific case
small timber
"apply a 350 HP/s DoT debuff that has infinite duration as long as you're touchi...
Yeah I will try to clear it out, didnt realise people saw it the opposite way
I was confused why it was compared so much to antiheal star
hollow shell
It is still comparable to the anti-heal star in that you're trying to give bosses damage that isn't protected by defense, DR, or anything like that
small timber
Yeah just that it was treated as the exact same thing (instead of 'an attack that also ignore defense and dr') was what was confusing me
hollow shell
"the intend of the suggestion is not "punish tank build" but mainly to resolve sloppy plays that should be punished"
I still feel this is a dangerous road to go down
Because the entire point of why you spec into defense is if you expect to get hit a bunch
small timber
Since staying in the attack extensively and accidently touching a projectile for a split second is completely different
small timber
> "the intend of the suggestion is not "punish tank build" but mainly to resolve...
I will say not necessarily, it is mainly to increase survivability
Since it will still help on every other attacks in the rest of the fight (by a very very good amount)
If the intent was to make it so facetanking is possible (or at least in some way) then defense damage will probably not come to be in the first place, since defense was good enough to make sure you can tank lots of hit (even before prebuff)
crude geode
too much focus on balance is ironically an imbalance
I feel like this quote and convo is applicable
hollow shell
If the intent was to make it so facetanking is possible (or at least in some way...
Well you bring up defense damage
Can you expect what I am about to say?
small timber
I feel like this quote and convo is applicable
You can quote anything but with no elaboration attached to it I will still not understand what does it mean
glass arch
defense damage should scale imo, the more defense you have the more defense damage you should take
which i think is kinda how it works
fervent orbit
"Upon getting hit by an attack with defense damage, the player's defense stat is reduced by 10% of the damage taken up to a maximum of 25% of the player's defense" from wiki
so it kinda scales, but if ur doing a full tank build i dont think its enough to scale down to a non tank build
small timber
These are some of the thing that can fuck defense globally, not just postML but also for preHM and HM
Which is why I am hesitant to suggest for global changes unless I am pretty sure it is a problem throughout all stages (eg warding scaling)
hollow shell
Can you expect what I am about to say?
(It's:)
Why do we need to punish facetanking even more if we already have a game mechanic dedicated to punishing facetanking
Is defense damage not doing its job?
small timber
Unironically, yes
fervent orbit
no it isnt because iframes exist
glass arch
defense damage does its job on lower defense builds
hollow shell
small timber
Defense damage just inherently cant solve iframe
fervent orbit
this is why i say delete iframes entirely and u should trust me cuz im smort
small timber
You dont recover defense damage but at the sametime you dont need defense if you are invincible and cant be hit
hollow shell
I would recommend you suggest a change to defense damage and not try to stack even more new mechanics trying to solve the same problem
small timber
You have to sit extensively inside an attack for defense damage to catchup, eg for plantera
crude geode
I would recommend you suggest a change to defense damage and not try to stack ev...
This
Calamity already has enough random mechanics in the name of “balance” we don’t need more
small timber
I think Doze unironically have a near full face tank build for plantera with the useless ocean claw that didnt have a problem because plantera's smaller attack interrupting and causing iframe actually stop him from taking defense damage from the contact, in fact he starts regening defense because of that
small timber
I would recommend you suggest a change to defense damage and not try to stack ev...
I did, and the reply I received from Ooz was that a global change like that can cause unforseen issue
crude geode
Did it actually go through to dev
small timber
Which is why the only global change I tried to get through is warding scaling because that one I was pretty certain is problematic
small timber
Did it actually go through to dev
No, it got shut down by Ooz so no point in suggesting something that for certain will be turnt down
fervent orbit
wat if the defense dmg cap scaled with defense? like under 100 defense the cap is at 15%, then 25% at above 100, and 35% above 200 (im just saying examples to get u to understand cuz im shit at explaining stuff, i picked these numbers randomly)
small timber
I think it will somehow be more artifical than the debuff idea I put out
crude geode
I did, and the reply I received from Ooz was that a global change like that can ...
I feel like this is. also likely to cause unforeseen issues
(Like the player being immensely confused by it)
small timber
The closest solution I think is to make every attack (by bosses) deal defense damage (no matter big or small) because that way iframe cant make it so you are saved from large attack that have defense damage by getting hit by a smaller attack (eg: brimstone dart)
That and make it so defense damage recovery starts up slower and ramp over time (which was the exact idea turnt down by ooz)
crude geode
Could one not solve the issue?
amber lodge
i want auric walls and blocks :<
small timber
First one doesnt solve iframe, second one doesnt solve the issue where you if just dont take defense damage you can regen
(I only suggested the 2nd one and it was still turnt down)
Or a 3rd one which is to make it so defense damage dont regen if you are taking damage instead of only when taking defense damage but to certain degree this is just a less strict version of first
glass arch
should i suggest lowering the iframe cap? 2 seconds of iframes seems a bit stupid, even though you arent likely to hit the cap in a normal playthrough
hollow shell
god I hate balancing
Why do we care about this
glass arch
actually yeah that probably belongs in #1042197406776827914 anyways
crude geode
~~god I hate balancing
Why do we care about this~~
Because caring about the 1% of calamity nerds who actually bother to tank leads to a better mod clearly
glass arch
bruh
fervent orbit
quirky
small timber
But yeah iframe cap is not the problem, it is the entire cross necklace line and rampart
You rarely reach cap anyway outside of dodges proc
fervent orbit
ok but the real problem in calamity is the current bug with celestial starboard and modded dashes
(yes i did send a report)
crude geode
But yeah iframe cap is not the problem, it is the entire cross necklace line and...
So many things are a problem for balance nerds
Like half the basic mechanics in the game
fervent orbit
astral arcanum when it can just negate the dmg from vul hex
i love how the guy who wanted auric furniture just got insta ❗
(yes ik that theres no reasoning)
hollow shell
@amber lodge suggestion needs a reason why
It doesn't need much cuz it's ultimately an aesthetic suggestion, but it needs something
amber lodge
<@523238490318569492> suggestion needs a reason why
It doesn't need much cuz it'...
oh ok sorry
fervent orbit
something something every material gets its own stuff something something
amber lodge
damn
bruh i entered the wiki and there's not :<
and i meant like to actually build cuz the block itself when placed as an ore looks cool but it doesn't comes with a wall like almost every ore, and even the shadowspec bars are used to make a block but auric doesn't, so it could be pretty good to have more auric furniture like slabs or bricks
blazing kettle
theres a toilet
blazing kettle
its like asking for terra furniture
amber lodge
could be good
hollow shell
wait what shadowspec isn't used to make a block
glass arch
dont forget to add your reasoning to the suggestion instead of just explaining it here
hollow shell
But
imo yes it's totally fair to ask for Auric furniture
amber lodge
wait what shadowspec isn't used to make a block
my mind played with me
fervent orbit
calval
blazing kettle
yharim armor when
amber lodge
like Calamity Vanities
i don't and i noticed that my brain invented it
hollow shell
ah lol
amber lodge
yharim armor when
when yharim too
hollow shell
2027
amber lodge
perfect
blazing kettle
in 91 fargo centimeters
glass arch
shadowspec's components (aside from auric bars lo) have building blocks but yeah not shadowspec itself
amber lodge
i have the memorie of watching the shadowspec bar to make a block but i can't find it, i'm going insane bruh
amber lodge
shadowspec's components (aside from auric bars lo) have building blocks but yeah...
then that's what i saw
small timber
Are you sure it is not calamity vanity mod?
hollow shell
Coulda got mixed up with the similarly themed https://calamitymod.wiki.gg/wiki/Occult_Brick
amber lodge
THAT
hollow shell
crafted with Ashes of Annihilation, a Shadowspec material
amber lodge
DAMN I'M NOT OK
hearty yew
shadowspec bars can be placed
amber lodge
but ye that was
hearty yew
scal furniture is crafted w/ ashes of annihilation directly
amber lodge
shadowspec bars can be placed
yes
hearty yew
because shadowspec bars are post exos as well
hollow shell
Funny theming on Shadowspec Bars, seemingly skewed towards something more SCal-like than either of their other mats,
just by sheer coincidence and legacy carry-overs
amber lodge
yup
hollow shell
But uh yeah Auric Furniture
and blocks
They can be added
as long as someone sprites them
Would not be a big deal I don't think
It is fine to suggest it as well to spur the devs into spriting it
hearty yew
Funny theming on Shadowspec Bars, seemingly skewed towards something more SCal-l...
"sheer coincidence" back when it was the post scal material made with "calamitous essence" and exos didn't exist
makes complete sense to me
and yea you can suggest auric furniture