how
#suggestions-discussion
gray nebula
drowsy plank
i mean it already exists... kinda
frosty trellis
And maybe the horizontal lightning dash can die
novel belfry
yknow, put effort into it
gray nebula
u can put zero effort and tear it apart and put it back as a dungeon guardian of the abyss cuz its funny
not a pretend-superboss
novel belfry
what are you talking about
frosty trellis
Yeah
novel belfry
u can put zero effort and tear it apart and put it back as a dungeon guardian of...
No, I disagree!
gray nebula
u will have to argument that disagreement a bit further than that oomfie
frosty trellis
I think just the horizontal lightning dash and eidolist spawning (and maybe prophecies end) need to die and be replaced with something more unique
Maybe something to take advantage of the pressure of the abyss to lower movement speed while AEW does some sort of attack that is hard to dodge but actually has a telegraph
gray nebula
i tried to argue for my pov... sob
the thing is just that atm abyss not a good arena esp with the ticking oxygen timer, and itd take a lot of effort to make aew a good fully fleshed out boss
and it wouldnt resolve the issue that its Yet Another Endgame boss
swift wharf
something something new lore
gray nebula
when endgame is already a turbo bos rush
frosty trellis
I mean AEW isn't supposed to be fought in the first place
But that doesn't give it any right to have any attacks that are unfair
Horizontal lighting dash moment
swift wharf
ski
gray nebula
ok its confusing, cogni is arguing for it being a Real boss but youre just arguing for it being a less unfair superboss
swift wharf
we should kill the concept of super bosses
frosty trellis
I'm not opposed to it becoming a more fleshed out fight
As some of it's attacks are somewhat bland
But at the very least kill the horizontal lighting dash please
gray nebula
super bosses can be good if they r good (yet to be seen)
frosty trellis
It has no telegraph and unreasonably hard to dodge
swift wharf
surely xeroc and noxus will be added eventually
gray nebula
just u wait till i make superbosses... ibangers all the way
errant bobcat
surely xeroc and noxus will be added eventually
And hopefully yharim
frosty trellis
It basically requires looking at the minimap and RoDing at the perfect moment to dodge it in any realistic manner
swift wharf
yharim is guaranteed
errant bobcat
Yea
swift wharf
xeroxus however, is not
frosty trellis
And anything that requires RoD and basically frame perfect timing to realistically dodge isn't really fair
gray nebula
It has no telegraph and unreasonably hard to dodge
we should give it a line telegraph
errant bobcat
Draedon alludes to it
gray nebula
😈
vocal grotto
To those who are able to do so, it might be wise to look in test-hq for a moment
I have a question in there pertaining to this matter
swift wharf
dom you forgot to give me access ..
frosty trellis
LOL
swift wharf
frosty trellis
You've tested one weapon
swift wharf
i was probably the only one who tested it
frosty trellis
I've tested nearly all post ml tiers
gray nebula
OK i weighed in
frosty trellis
i was probably the only one who tested it
Nope
swift wharf
shit got damage buffed and never touched again
frosty trellis
N00b_Here also did
swift wharf
He is no longer with us.
drowsy plank
eld melter 1 billion base damage
swift wharf
frosty trellis
And elf melter can't rly be balanced rn since it's getting changed in 1.4.4
And is getting armor pen for some reason
swift wharf
I mean it can
just give it less dmg 
or just kill the shitty flamethrowers
anyways what do you have for us iban
gray nebula
why is elf melter so strong
its just a random forgettable item
it SHOULD be forgettablz ⚡
swift wharf
uhhhhb mega buffed by calamity
frosty trellis
It's probably viable for ML if I had to guess
swift wharf
"aureus is tanky" mfs when I show them the elf melter killtimes
gray nebula
🐌
tardy smelt
if Elf Melter is forgettable then Terra Flameburster is even more forgettable
that's a weapon I wouldn't remotely consider getting aside from using it for crafting Photoviscerator which is cool
swift wharf
tfb could die and nobody would miss it
it's the same tier as elf melter, more annoying to get and deals less damage
tardy smelt
eh
swift wharf
- death of boring terra item
tardy smelt
the craft's pretty simple
I wouldn't mind it getting killed and its spot in Ele Eruption's recipe getting replaced with Flamethrower
swift wharf
why flamethrower and not epic melter
tardy smelt
could be either 
swift wharf
would fit more because of 1.4.4 too
oh yeah I forgot blighted spewer exists too
flamethrowers are so relevant
errant bobcat
Personally I like that calamity expanded on the subclass, but when I went to play ranger I always forgot to use flamethrowers. I just always found myself using guns
serene tendon
Do people know the acidic effect of the Sulpherous Sea works on bosses?
grim tusk
Do people know the acidic effect of the Sulpherous Sea works on bosses?
The sulphuric poisoning debuff (which is intended and several weapons inflict it) or like the new bar where you start taking dmg after a while?
serene tendon
The sulphuric poisoning debuff (which is intended and several weapons inflict it...
My Sulphur Sea kinda mixed with my corruption, it was raining, and I summoned EoW and it melted whenever I entered the biome
It was funny
grim tusk
grim tusk
My Sulphur Sea kinda mixed with my corruption, it was raining, and I summoned Eo...
Please get a vid
serene tendon
Idk how it would work with the new bar, I fought it before that update
frosty trellis
why is elf melter so strong
Y E S
(Ik I died but with 9.2% left on the core add like 20 seconds and 2:30-2:40 is still well under a minute below the 4 minute testing time)
3w3m
And also here are the stat changes from vanilla
grim tusk
Idk how it would work with the new bar, I fought it before that update
Oh so it was sulphuric poisoning debuff 
So it should prob be fine now
frosty trellis
When a pre golem weapon is one of the strongest weapons for ML period
grim tusk
@ Blast we have a little arson to do once we start to port to 1.4.4
frosty trellis
And is going to get buffed in 1.4.4 so it has armor pen
Blast is aware of elf melter being broken
serene tendon
And is going to get buffed in 1.4.4 so it has armor pen
Just bring it's damage back to vanilla levels
frosty trellis
Just didn't feel like changing it until 1.4.4. bc of the frostbite debuff, different area of effect and 15/20 armor pen for no reason like why
grim tusk
Blast hopefully will get eld melter killed once Tml 1.4.4 is real
frosty trellis
Oh yeah Elf Melter can die
And hopefully astral bow as well bc it has a 1:40 ML kt for some reason
frosty trellis
Blast hopefully will get eld melter killed once Tml 1.4.4 is real
Oh also Vesuvius R.Click has a 2:0x ML time
grim tusk
Legendary moment
frosty trellis
Yeah
Until N00b tested it I had no idea it existed bc I never had it drop from ravager in any of my pts
And then just 2 minute ml and wat
swift wharf
oh yeah mph if you're still there
can you do ml with shroomite armor and wings instead
for elf melter
drowsy plank
can you do ml with shroomite armor and wings instead
@frosty trellis
swift wharf
oh ok good
frosty trellis
?
swift wharf
visage + board gives you a flat 35% damage boost which I thought it would be stronger
stronger than plague reaper I mean
frosty trellis
Given I died at 9.2% and the death animation
It's probably similar in this regard
swift wharf
yea
hollow shell
oh dear
frosty trellis
Glances at Executioners Blade Spam having a below 2 minute kt on average
hollow shell
This probably should be in the Freq Don'ts actually
frosty trellis
Yeah
frosty trellis
👍
Rogue is wildly unbalanced and has a lot of broken shit so idk how rogue is not that strong
Exe Blade is one of the best rogue weapons for Exos
Tarragon Throwing Darts obliterates OD
Shard of Antumbra Stealth annihilates ML
Fantasy Talisman just exists
hollow shell
Wait did we make Sharpening Station work for Rogue weapons or am I misremembering
glass arch
if it does it doesnt say anywhere on the wiki
ruby plover
i dont even think the argument of saying specific broken weapons is needed to say that rogue is strong
cos every class has The Broken Weapons
glass arch
true
ruby plover
just like
rogue is a smart class, its not often spray and pray
if you play rogue how you play, say, ranger, you aren't gonna get good kill times 
stealth beloved
well, not often
spam is more viable nowadays
hollow shell
did this person really use the argument of "rogue isnt that strong"
@worldly mist
You can talk about how it lacks that bit of depth compared to other classes
But a strength argument should not be used
In all likelihood, if we do add a Rogue station, we will take some stat off of a very common rogue equipment/potion and give it to the station so that the overall balance doesn't change at all
grim tusk
Wait did we make Sharpening Station work for Rogue weapons or am I misrememberin...
We never did that
hollow shell
Alright musta just been an idea that was thrown around
grim tusk
We threw concepts for a rogue station on dev long ago
Never got past brainstorming ideas
frosty trellis
We can live without one yeah
amber moss
Honestly Rouge really stacks up well next to other classes despite the lack of a station and other nice things and since most of the rough spots will be ironed out in the future I don't see a need for a Rouge station
hollow shell
I would like a rogue station even if it ultimately changes nothing about its performance
Just cuz I like that lil
build "variety"
Variety in the types of things that can buff you
cobalt pewter
a station ultimately would be nice
crude geode
Why is the second paragraph necessary
swift wharf
I hope they don't
crude geode
@compact rampart #suggestions-voting message
Go vote on that
(And delete your sugg)
compact rampart
damn I cant believe I missed that
hot zephyr
allah will make devs reject it
damn now I'm just gonna have to accept it
hot zephyr
(jk iban would rip the skin off my body and glue it back on... backwards)
swift wharf
I like how the first suggestion talks about challenge runs with the acrobatic kit
but using it as an accessory is too hard!!!!!
wait there's another one
nvm it's that one
swift wharf
but using it as an accessory is too hard!!!!!
byea this
small timber
Move (some of) stand still rogue stealth generation bonus to rogue station maybe? Since currently it is abit too fast by default
gray nebula
(jk iban would rip the skin off my body and glue it back on... backwards)
🙏 mashallah
hot zephyr
:yroufany:
cobalt pewter
Move (some of) stand still rogue stealth generation bonus to rogue station maybe...
why?
small timber
This is probably just me but I feel stand still is too easy to proc for many early preHM fights before like hive mind
For things like ds, eow and such you can just stand still for half the fight and spam stealth strike on the boss without worries
cobalt pewter
those two examples are worms
they're irrelevant 🙏
even you have plenty time to stand still on dog
small timber
If said advantage is moved to rogue station (eg sold by bandit or whatnot) it will still make it the same for progression afterwards and at least not as overpowered early
hot zephyr
fuck you, you'll take your 5% rogue projectile velocity
small timber
What if rogue station is 5% movement speed when you have rogue weapon selected/equipped in hotbar
crude geode
It still pisses me off that crystal ball is the only table locked behind hardmode
cobalt pewter
It still pisses me off that crystal ball is the only table locked behind hardmod...
not anymore in 1.4.4 (ammo box appears)
drowsy plank
What if rogue station is 5% movement speed when you have rogue weapon selected/e...
kid named momentum capacitor
crude geode
not anymore in 1.4.4 (ammo box appears)
Isn’t ammo box still sold by traveling merchant
crude geode
Wacky
small timber
So it is now even more useless
small timber
20% ammo reserve is at least ok as qol in preHM when you are using like jester arrow
Tf people do with ammo reserve in HM
small timber
Star cannon upgrades I guess?
small timber
Just make it 5% MS when have ranger weapon equipped smhmyhead
hollow shell
This is a fine suggestion
little stag
brimstone flames could have a different effect that isn't just a plain dmg increase to the cursed flask
hollow shell
brimstone flames could have a different effect that isn't just a plain dmg incre...
That would be a pretty widely affecting change
small timber
Brimstone flask should give 5% movement speed 
little stag
That would be a pretty widely affecting change
then specifically for enemies? either by an effect that barely affects players but would affect enemies a lot more (like an AoE effect on the debuff) or by hardcoding
that way it wouldn't change gameplay too much
if that's what you're referring to
hollow shell
I mean like, making any changes to Brimstone Flames would affect every weapon/item that uses it throughout the game
That's a lotta items
Won't just affect the flask
little stag
oh right
fathom aspen
Changing the flame directly may affect too many items, so I only brought up the Flask as it has a post-Cal lock and is surpassed by a pre-mech one
hollow shell
Not to say it's untouchable , we could still change it
We just gotta be careful
Probably uhh
too many weapons inflicting it rn
Prevents us from doing cool stuff with it cuz it's just everywhere
This is an issue with flasks in general
Though the move of changing Cal Brew into a flask was a good one
Cuz before you could stack even more debuffs at once on all of your weapons
Now they are at the very least mutually exclusive
little stag
okay so it's a better idea to change the flask directly
hollow shell
Ideally I would like each debuff to be more meaningful and therefore have flasks be much more limited
Greatly reduced duration, or only working per certain amount of weapon uses, or getting applied per weapon instead of universally
But these're just my own sweeping unrealistic ideas
fathom aspen
Stacking debuff itself wouldn't be too broken since the existence of enemies' debuff cap
hollow shell
well, 1.4.4 makes that cap basically non-existent iirc
fathom aspen
Oh
glass arch
yeah in 1.4.4 its 20 rather than 5
drowsy plank
we could just do what i thought flasks were always going to do and make each one have a unique effect
ichor gets defense, crumbling gets DR, brim could be dps, give something freeze
you get the idea
hollow shell
I suppose so yeah
Nanites are confusion, Midas is coins
Being mutually exclusive means you got something of a meaningful choice to make
Kinda doesn't work to add more DPS debuff flasks cuz then some are just outright better than others, s'not much of a choice unless the better one is significantly harder to obtain
We probably just have to make the flask..
not be Brimstone Flames
replace it or remove it
Pick a debuff that fills more of a niche
little stag
vulnerability hex could be the replacement
just use the debuff on enemy as a vessel for the Brim flask rework, and increase Calamity's dps
hollow shell
mayb
small timber
Vul hex is 3k dps I think because it is an calamitas npc enchant
cobalt pewter
stuff directly based off Nanites are honestly stupid
why confusion
at that point at least 60% of the game is immune to confusion
small timber
And if it do what scal's vul hex do to the player (minus defense and DR) it will just become a crumbling + ichor combination flask
fathom aspen
add a weaker version of Vul Hex for both Calamitas and Flask to inflict? Idk
frosty trellis
God no
glass arch
what if it dealt increasing damage the slower the enemy moves? kinda like the opposite of electrified?
fathom aspen
But that looks like a change to the debuff itself
glass arch
good point
fathom aspen
And we have a preHM weapon to inflict BFlame
hollow shell
yknow, we could add "flasks" that apply a mutually-exclusive flask buff, but don't actually have an apply-debuff-on-all-weapons effect, instead some other effect
Dunno if that'd be too weird for flasks' collective identity but it's worth considering
fathom aspen
May cause prehm bosses melting
hollow shell
what if it dealt increasing damage the slower the enemy moves? kinda like the op...
We could add a new debuff just for the flask that does that, if we want
cobalt pewter
flask rework in real
worldly plank
does there exist a block in the game that appears identical to or very similar to the wulfrum scaffolding (other than the rusted pipe) already?
worldly plank
i believe it's clear what i'm about to suggest to if you have any objections please let me know
grim tusk
Though the move of changing Cal Brew *into* a flask was a good one
Cuz before yo...
Totality breakers was batshit insane before (still kinda is but way less than when it had brimstone flames + cursed inferno)
Rn its decent vs Levi and Anahita but on Aureus its 
(spam breakers, stealth needs a small buff)
gray nebula
its gonna be coming in a mod near u
grim tusk
Its also absurd at DoT
cobalt pewter
you probably would be post Cultist before you remembered to get that
it tried to be the Night's Edge of bombs while being stupid obscure
hollow shell
Hm
crude geode
solar veil kinda makes it easy to remember, at least for your first time round
hollow shell
Not sure what could be done to make it
more likely that you'll remember to craft it?
cobalt pewter
I must've had some memory issues then because even after scanning past recipe browser 3 times every time I slapped Solar Veil in I can't even see it
grim tusk
you probably would be post Cultist before you remembered to get that
Maybe it being obscure could be due to the CClone rogue weapon unlocks (except for Crushsaw which I buffed and itself) being bad
cobalt pewter
Maybe it being obscure could be due to the CClone rogue weapon unlocks (except f...
could be
grim tusk
I have plans to buff all of those items
Then theres ballistic poison bomb, which is a lost cause
cobalt pewter
cal clone technically unlocks solar veil no
grim tusk
does cal clone unlock totality breakers in some way
Yes, she unlocks solar veils
crude geode
wow I thought it was plantera lol
cobalt pewter
it can be either
crude geode
ok there we go
cobalt pewter
since they're the same tier
hollow shell
kinda
grim tusk
:hestrue:
crude geode
since you don't get a jungle temple key from cal clone it's kinda weird for her to unlock solar veils
but I guess with rod's accessibility it isn't an issue?
just kinda weird
cobalt pewter
she should
she should drop evil keys instead of wof
imo imo imo imo
hollow shell
You still need to kill Plant in order to RoD into the Temple afaik
frosty trellis
since you don't get a jungle temple key from cal clone it's kinda weird for her ...
Solar eclipse's spawning naturally crying:
crude geode
aren't you one of the 5 people who complain about never getting natural blood moons
frosty trellis
You still need to kill Plant in order to RoD into the Temple afaik
Why bother when just three platforms hammered once can get through the door
frosty trellis
aren't you one of the 5 people who complain about never getting natural blood mo...
Yeah and natural eclipses are not uncommon
I've had a pt not get a bloodmoon until post dog
crude geode
they're uncommon when you need them
hollow shell
Add Solar Tablets to lower Abyss chests, cuz Clone unlocks the Hardmode Abyss mats so you'll be down there after beating her
frosty trellis
Had to cheat in bloodflare amorr
cobalt pewter
cal now makes a DG 2.0 (since apparently AEW is a """superboss""" now (fuck that btw)) that smites you for going into temple phm
screw hoiks
frosty trellis
Add Solar Tablets to lower Abyss chests, cuz Clone unlocks the Hardmode Abyss ma...
*Assuming people knows it exists bc I sure as hell didn't until I had to look up where the hell I got tenebris
small timber
is blood moon occuring more often in death mode or something?
because it my pt pre-Hardmode blood moon happened like, 7 times now
hollow shell
*Assuming people knows it exists bc I sure as hell didn't until I had to look up...
There's a chat message
frosty trellis
is blood moon occuring more often in death mode or something?
Considering that pt was in Master-Death, no
frosty trellis
There's a chat message
Okay but it doesn't tell me where the hell the abyss is
cobalt pewter
I think I like the idea of Guide temporarily replacing his existing lines with stuff related to the boss killed recently
hollow shell
Should Cal drop some item that has an Abyss-specific benefit to extra encourage people to check it out?
frosty trellis
I didn't know the abyss existed or where it was until I had to look it up
cobalt pewter
temporarily as in for a few times of interacting with him
crude geode
Should Cal drop some item that has an Abyss-specific benefit to *extra* encourag...
sounds. blegh.
hollow shell
Okay but it doesn't tell me *where the hell the abyss is*
Okay yes that is a whole issue that I have brought up in the dev server and proposed solutions for
frosty trellis
Like, acid rain at least mentions seas, so that makes you think it's one of the oceans that got replaced
hollow shell
Okay yes that is a whole issue that I have brought up in the dev server and prop...
The new Acid Meter is the first phase of that
small timber
I think the easiest way is just, delink calclone from abyss
it doesnt make sense in the first place, the upgrades should be tied to a more abyss themed (or at least sulph sea themed) boss
cobalt pewter
it doesnt make sense in the first place, the upgrades should be tied to a more a...
aew :troll
crude geode
Cal Clone could just spawn a solar eclipse the next time she can, with a status message immediately after death, to indicate they're now available
cobalt pewter
Cal Clone could just spawn a solar eclipse the next time she can, with a status ...
going for the seasonal moon stuff
sure
small timber
or at least this way: calclone unlock an abyss "miniboss" that you have to beat, that after its defeat unlock abyss stuffs
cobalt pewter
(they toggle Halloween and Christmas for a day after the event ended)
small timber
and that time you give very obvious hints
crude geode
or at least this way: calclone unlock an abyss "miniboss" that you have to beat,...
minibosses/bosses post plant/cal clone
small timber
just kill the ones that are not relevant first
swift wharf
great sans
hollow shell
or at least this way: calclone unlock an abyss "miniboss" that you have to beat,...
Defeats the point, still makes Clone unlock an Abyss thing
crude geode
yeah
cobalt pewter
great sans
small timber
the point is just make is more obvious that 'where you defeat the boss is where you find the upgrade', but ya just if it is moved it will require retiering entire tier of items
cobalt pewter
Megalovania plays
crude geode
you could try and swap plantera's and cal clone's unlocks since they make a bit more sense on each other.
Plantera unlocking nature related stuff down in the abyss, while Cal Clone unlocks departed souls in the dungeon
but that sounds
difficult
glass arch
as long as it doesnt get transferred to plantera on top of the other stuff any change to how killing calclone unlocks the abyss is fine to me
cobalt pewter
I think they really need to define that calclone and plant are indeed the same tier first
as it is plant unlocks approx 700% more stuff than calclone does
hollow shell
I think they really need to define that calclone and plant are indeed the same t...
As long as Boss Checklist exists, one is always going to be seen as earlier or later than the other
frosty trellis
I don't like the idea of Calclone and Plantera being interchangable if they aren't going to unlock similar things
swift wharf
As long as Boss Checklist exists, one is always going to be seen as earlier or l...
simply put them in the same space
swift wharf
plant good boss sobbing rn
crude geode
make the jungle a plague
we get it
cobalt pewter
(this is a segway to post plant plague I promise)
crude geode
has anyone even made a sugg regarding that idea
cobalt pewter
plague makes way more sense as a post plant unlock rather than post-golem thematically
hollow shell
has anyone even made a sugg regarding that idea
what idea
crude geode
(this is a segway to post plant plague I promise)
.
frosty trellis
I've always seen Calclone as pre plantera as I kinda see is as she is testing you on your journey so far and is saying are you prepared for what is to come? in a sense, and doing that pre plantera, one of the more infamous boss fights in vanilla for some people having extremely difficult times with her, it makes sense in my head at least
crude geode
most people do
swift wharf
boss checklist brainwashing
hollow shell
Fuck outta here with your lore reasoning
hollow shell
but I do see Clone as pre-Plant too
swift wharf
it's 100% because of boss checklist and you can't tell me otherwise
frosty trellis
Fuck outta here with your lore reasoning
LMFAOOOOOO
hollow shell
mostly cuz Plant unlocks so much
frosty trellis
It's less lore and that's just how I've seen it
cobalt pewter
lore reasoning moment
crude geode
It has that *vibe*
even more nonsensical reasoning
swift wharf
anyways clone feels like a mech boss
frosty trellis
LOL
swift wharf
💀
glass arch
i do them differently based off the class im doing, mage i always do it pre-plant but otherwise its post-plant
cobalt pewter
(plant just needs most of its stuff cut down and moved to calclone)
hollow shell
anyways clone feels like a mech boss
True!! EoC 3 !!!!!!!!!!
rework coming soon
comi g soon
swift wharf
forbidden 4th mech....
cobalt pewter
anyways clone feels like a mech boss
swift wharf
no not like that
hollow shell
old gif
swift wharf
it's just pre-plant = mech bosses
frosty trellis
Clone needs to be actually be threatening outside bh2
glass arch
rework coming soon
Soon™️ as always
frosty trellis
Clone needs to be actually be threatening outside bh2
She and her brothers literally lose to two long rows of platforms
hollow shell
I hate that Clone's BHs are just as dense as SCal's if not more dangerous due to their varying speeds
crude geode
Clone's BHs sure are something
cobalt pewter
honestly I just gave up trying to reasonably talk about bosses
frosty trellis
Clones BH speeds got reworked so it's basically stay close or go straight down or else you're fucked
cobalt pewter
it's better to approach things that can somewhat be easier to change
frosty trellis
BH1 is fine with difficulty the bh speeds are just weird
crude geode
honestly I just gave up trying to reasonably talk about bosses
insert thanatos
hollow shell
Yes changing bosses thru suggs is very difficult
crude geode
(thanatos' mechanics are so nonsensical)
cobalt pewter
insert thanatos
real
hollow shell
Yes changing bosses thru suggs is very difficult
Hopefully that actually will change in the future
frosty trellis
BH2 bh speeds completely fucks with the entire thing and needs a rework/removal due to the gigablast spreads
cobalt pewter
(thanatos' mechanics are so nonsensical)
"noooooo it's intended to melt the metal worm!!!!!!!! 🤓"
(fuck me ig)
anyways
frosty trellis
BH2 bh speeds completely fucks with the entire thing and needs a rework/removal ...
As basically with the new acceleration, not getting hit is unreasonably difficulty at times
hollow shell
It probably just needs a whole new set of projectiles compared to SCal
It's fine that Clone has BHs, it's cute to have them parallel each other
frosty trellis
Oh keep the bhs for Calclone please
hollow shell
But it shouldn't be that similar, esp in difficulty
frosty trellis
It makes the fight actually interesting
Calclones bhs are harder than SCal's
Well, specifically bh2
small timber
yeah calclone bh2 are bullshit
crude geode
for something that takes up it's own segments of both fights the brother phases kinda
suck
hollow shell
Are public brothers still just Spazmatisms?
cobalt pewter
(brothers phase in scal is just free heal)
small timber
yes
swift wharf
ya
cobalt pewter
Are public brothers still just Spazmatisms?
yes
frosty trellis
Brothers for SCal are interesting and intuitive
Brothers for calclone are literally: Do you have two sets of platforms and a dash? Cool, they're a joke now
small timber
flamethrower and spaz
cobalt pewter
spaz and reti basically
frosty trellis
Spaz is flamethrower xpc
swift wharf
scal brothers aren't much better but that's not relevant
crude geode
brothers for scal are only mildly more interesting
hollow shell
There has been reworked clonebro behaviors sitting around for over a year now, but was on hold for implementation until the reworked design sprites get finished
crude geode
still not what I'd call good
small timber
Spaz is flamethrower xpc <:HDfailure:482263678150770729>
I feel spaz is more P1 spaz and flamethrower is more P2 ret so wanted to prevent confusion
cobalt pewter
what
hollow shell
And wuh oh
those reworked designs just got a lot harder to finish for undisclosed reasons
crude geode
There has been reworked clonebro behaviors sitting around for over a year now, b...
are the brothers' sprites getting reworked before cal clone's
cobalt pewter
And wuh oh
those reworked designs just got a lot harder to finish for undisclose...
awesome
frosty trellis
The only thing I don't like about SCal's brothers is that the new hellblast spreads being equidistant can make them.... kinda bs to dodge when there might not be an opening at all
hollow shell
are the brothers' sprites getting reworked before cal clone's
They will be implemented at the same time
crude geode
fair
hollow shell
The only thing I don't like about SCal's brothers is that the new hellblast spre...
Yes that was a source of contention in the dev server
frosty trellis
The only thing I don't like about SCal's brothers is that the new hellblast spre...
(Which has happened to be SEVERAL times when testing weapons out)
hollow shell
I personally prefer them having the random spreads for the wider openings
crude geode
I love fight reworks being based on resprite time
(aka this fight will be reworked in two years)
small timber
scals' gigablast change is a big deal since it eliminate (most) RNG about it now, but ya brothers become a lot harder
generally the fight is a lot easier because if you kill 1 brother fast the rest of the fight become much easier
cobalt pewter
I love fight reworks being based on resprite time
considering how many reworks are being held off due to resprite stuff, surely
:clules
frosty trellis
generally the fight is a lot easier because if you kill 1 brother fast the rest ...
Yeah but when testing that isn't always the easiest thing depending on the weapon and not everyone is going to know how to kill them fast (Or hell, even have adren to nuke one) so yeah
small timber
or make them alternate fire
which is why I thought this might work ^
crude geode
tester copium
frosty trellis
I mean even in my pts getting adren was a task
Bc SCal is unproportionally difficult
swift wharf
I love fight reworks being based on resprite time
shhhhh this means that we won't get a dog rework every major update
frosty trellis
which is why I thought this might work ^
Possibly? I would just give the brothers back the random blasts instead of the equidistant ones
At the very least
crude geode
shhhhh this means that we won't get a dog rework every major update
they made an exception for him cuz nobody wanted to change his sprite because iconic
frosty trellis
That wasn't bullshit that was actually kinda fun to dodge
swift wharf
true....
crude geode
anyways brothers are really lame
spamming projectiles when both of them have melee weapons
just like the real melee class
hollow shell
~~just like the real melee class~~
HEH
crude geode
I'm commenting on the fact that brothers being more projectile spam in a fight already built around that makes them forgettable and lame
hollow shell
Yep, that was an example of the fight not getting reworked even with the resprites
frosty trellis
I don't think SCal needs a full on rework
cobalt pewter
shhhhh this means that we won't get a dog rework every major update
yeah sure but other bosses suffer from waiting to be reskinned in order to have a decent (?) fight
hollow shell
Fab liked bros as is, so
The sword and fists just shoot projectiles
cobalt pewter
Yep, that was an example of the fight not getting reworked *even with* the respr...
cat boom
crude geode
I don't think SCal needs a full on rework
never said she did, just was talking about the brothers 
crude geode
Fab liked bros as is, so
The sword and fists just shoot projectiles
classic
small timber
the thing with scal is any rework to her is meet with controversial
because people like the fight so much
frosty trellis
I just think the hellblast spreads for the brothers need to return to the previous itteration and the rest of the fight becoming more difficult as 5 bhs and then everything else needs to be put up to the same difficulty as it's just unproportionate
small timber
in nohitcord (some) people were FUMING for the fact that they changed gigablast which make scal easier
cobalt pewter
it's less "like the fight so much" and more "fuck my muscle memory is gonna be ruind and I have to practice all over again"
being real here
even better with that example
crude geode
in nohitcord (some) people were FUMING for the fact that they changed gigablast ...
you take nohitcord into account when thinking about things?
small timber
instead of like, acknowledging that the change also make scal much fairer
small timber
you take nohitcord into account when thinking about things?
to certain degree nohitcord is also a bunch of people that is much more experienced + dedicated at the game than average player
so yes
crude geode
to a certain degree
small timber
(and they were not referring to nohit at the time, they just dislike the fact that scal is easier)
cobalt pewter
I frequent on nohit and I wouldn't take their opinions on things like that scal change with much weight
games often have been ruined by trying to cater to the higher skill level players
crude geode
^^^^^
frosty trellis
I don't find the gigablast change to make her easier tbh
swift wharf
I don't even know the change
frosty trellis
I find it harder for SCal herself and the bhs but it's the right level of difficulty
It's just bullshit for the brothers
swift wharf
lol!
cobalt pewter
I don't even know the change
the blasts produce a uniform spread of projectiles instead of randomized
swift wharf
I see
small timber
personally I am completely fine with the changes (since it is much fairer now), and yeah catering towards player opinion can often halt progress
what I mean is just if there is large scale rework to scal it will likely be controversial (for many players)
frosty trellis
I don't even know the change
Gigablast spreads went from:
60 projectiles going in random directions
To
About 40 equidistant from each other
hollow shell
(it's weird to have the blast spread be less dependent on RNG to be "more fair"
when
the core projectiles of the rest of the bullet hells still come in at random positions)
crude geode
never said she did, just was talking about the brothers <:taxevasion:61163717538...
again, I'm not trying to get a full on scal rework here
swift wharf
just make the brothers interesting...
small timber
for them changing brothers is a large scal rework, but yeah probably for the better
swift wharf
make the sword one murasama you
that will have no consequences whatsoever
frosty trellis
That's subjective as I seem them as a lot more interesting than just Calclones brothers or a bunch of other minions in the game
cobalt pewter
(it's weird to have the blast spread be less dependent on RNG to be "more fair"
...
ye
I didn't wanna get into it though, discussing bosses in calamity gets tiring quick, especially knowing that only 1 person has the power to change anything about their behavior
crude geode
fr
swift wharf
for them changing brothers is a large scal rework, but yeah probably for the bet...
making them not just fly up and down and fire a projectile is a "large scal rework"
taxevasion
small timber
making them not just fly up and down and fire a projectile is a "large scal rewo...
people see gigablast change as a large scal rework, so likely yes
crude geode
"people"
small timber
especially if brothers is completely different
cobalt pewter
calamity has ruined the scope of context for the word "rework"
crude geode
are we still just referring to nohitcord
swift wharf
🥱
cobalt pewter
weapon gets +30 damage
"rework"!
crude geode
calamity has ruined the scope of context for the word "rework"
yes
it's even corrupted vanilla changelogs 
swift wharf
the calamity elf melter rework.....
cobalt pewter
eld
swift wharf
now with 113 damage!!
ruby plover
i really wish i could chip in my take on the gigablast change but also i havent fought scal outside of a nohit for many months now lol
to me it feels easier in bullet hells
to me
crude geode
it's such a minor change that only hyper nerds like nothitcord or this channel ~~ ~~ would really care
ruby plover
you callin me a protozoa 🤨
cobalt pewter
guh?
crude geode
I wish I was a single cell organism sometimes
swift wharf
what if we don't care about minorities and just make the average player go "holy shit new AI" instead
hollow shell
crude geode
cobalt pewter
https://tenor.com/view/shithead-his-name-is-shithead-his-name-is-shithead-and-he...
frfr
hollow shell
what if we don't care about minorities and just make the average player go "holy...
Finally
Not caring about minorities 😩
swift wharf
💪
small timber
I like how people are so fixated on the idea that just because they are nohitters their opinion dont matter
this is kinda like the opposite of when "only nohitter opinion matters", it is not much better
regardless of them nohitting things or not, they are still a bunch of people who play the mod way more than others, I will not cater towards their opinion completely but at the very least they should be seen as valid
cobalt pewter
such a progressive community of a Calamity mod
crude geode
The major criticism of a rework to brothers so far is that "it might upset this minority"
If we took that approach, the rework to the ark line would never have happened
or the great weapon removal
Calamity has been moving towards decisions that may upset minorities in the community because it wants to improve the mod as a whole
small timber
for them changing brothers is a large scal rework, but yeah probably for the bet...
the tldr is just yes people will care more about "a little change" than you realised
whether cal devs should cater towards it is a different question, but it will be seen as a 'large rework' than just changing some boss minion (and that is basically what I want to establish)
anyway yeah dont cater towards just a bunch of people and halting progress
swift wharf
ok but like they got mad at a change that made the boss less bs
should we really care about it
small timber
what I wanted to say is just 'dont treat everything as minor changes' when people do care about them
at least try to find better solution before just "rework them completely" or "delete them"
swift wharf
It has been proven that people will get mad at a change regardless
and for the brothers a complete rework is not needed
which was cursed's point all along!!!
crude geode
I would love one but it's so hilariously unlikely to happen
minor changes to make it less. boring would be beneficial
undone cedar
https://tenor.com/view/shithead-his-name-is-shithead-his-name-is-shithead-and-he...
Me
glass arch
@rustic current you probably need more reasoning that "itd be cool"
crude geode
100%
could mention how summoner could use more variety post golem but not sure if that's true (outside of summoner needing more variety everywhere because summoner moment)
glass arch
and how almost every other class has a golem drop
rustic current
<@378812390449348608> you probably need more reasoning that "itd be cool"
Probably, but the disappoint when realising you can’t have a mini golem after the plantation staff was immeasurable
Not really, but aside from game progression as a summoner Theres no reason to revisit golem
small timber
golem already have a mini golem pet I think
rustic current
Yeah he does but it’s ugly
small timber
and does scoria have summoner upgrades? particularly life alloy, and I am pretty sure that is yes
small timber
Yeah he does but it’s ugly
then a "mini golem summoner weapon" will likely not be much better
glass arch
Not really, but aside from game progression as a summoner Theres no reason to re...
same with every class but melee because he only drops weapons for the other classes
rustic current
Life alloy yes, but scoria itself no
small timber
life alloy is basically the same tier as scoria so it is post-Golem
rustic current
2 ways to go with it well, 3 it could either be a minion slot 1 summon, a multi slot summon of a single slot. Personally I would like to see it like the plantation staff
small timber
the basis of the suggestion is too specific in the first place, so you need to establish why there is a need for summoner weapon as a direct golem drop
and at that golem basically unlock scoria and life alloy (= same tier as golem), and those already have summoner weapon as craft
rustic current
Yeah honestly there really isn’t a good basis beyond it making golem more worth while
small timber
(golem is already very worthwhile because of scoria and life alloy)
you can't really just say "plantera is a completely useless boss in progression because its drop sucks" when it unlock 2 moon event + HM dungeon, same deal
rustic current
Yeah like once, and that’s it with leviathan and anahita you will want to do it up to 10 times for the community, and the fight itself is just amazing (best theme)
small timber
being required to defeat a boss 10 times is not a good basis on whether the boss is worthwhile
you can just have king slime have a 1% super drop and say "king slime is super worthwhile since I have to fight it 100 times"
the value of the boss do not have to come from their direct drop
rustic current
True, I’ll just delete my suggestion
hollow shell
the basis of the suggestion is too specific in the first place, so you need to e...
oh cmon
No it wasn't
That was as far from an SIS as you can get
small timber
wait what sorry are you referring to the wulfrum scaffholding or the golem summon weapon suggestion?
hollow shell
Golem summon weapon
small timber
I think they specified it have to look like mini golem? or that is only discussed here and not in the suggestion
hollow shell
From what I can see in delete notifs,
he didn't give it a name, he didn't say what it would be, he didn't really give any direction whatsoever aside from it being a Golem drop that is a summon wep
Which is an example of what you should do for new item proposals
small timber
Probably, but the disappoint when realising you can’t have a mini golem after th...
fuck I saw it here and I thought it was also mentioned in the suggestion itself, yeah sorry
hollow shell
Granted his reasoning was super minimal and highly subjective, but you shot it down for the wrong reason
@rustic current You can try posting that suggestion again if you can come up with reasons why Golem needs a drop like that
Does summoner lack options around that tier at all?
safe oasis
i think SIS in general has gone a bit too far tbh, things have been shot down for simply for including a function or general idea of a visual which i think goes way past what's in the document as an example
rustic current
<@378812390449348608> You can try posting that suggestion again if you can come ...
I’ll definitely go back and try and see if I can articulate a good reason. Buts it’s true you have a lot of options as it is around that stage of the game dare I say it a bit too much
safe oasis
either like add an addendum or edit to the doc or make item suggestions not that strict imo
rustic current
Summoners a strange class because so many things have poor targeting you either have so much choice or very little
small timber
yeah I thought the suggestion also mentioned "a miniature golem as a golem direct summon weapon drop" since it was mentioned here, should had rechecked the suggestion itself
safe oasis
even if it included that, that is not a specific item sugg at all
by doc standards at least
grim tusk
<@378812390449348608> You can try posting that suggestion again if you can come ...
summoner does not lack options post-Golem at all
glass arch
the reasoning that could have been used was "Most other classes have a weapon that drops directly from golem along side their scoria and life alloy weapons, so summoner should have a golem drop as well"
hollow shell
If they already have plenty of options then it is a hard sell.
glass arch
yeah
frosty trellis
<@378812390449348608> You can try posting that suggestion again if you can come ...
Calamity adds 4 summons (Wither blossoms, infected remote, resurrection butterflies and fuel cell pack_ and 2 sentroes (Spikecrag staff and Pulse Turrent Remote) post golem pre cultists
Vanilla has 4 summons (Terraprisma, Xeno Staff, Tempest Staff and Kalidescope) and 4 sentries (Tavernkeep rods) post golem pre cultists
... Yeah it's a little barren
And only 3 more weapons post cultists, being Godspawn helix staff and the stardust weapons
Post ML is worse, as there is only 3 post ml summons added by calamity (Elemental Axe, Flowers of Mortality, and Tactical Plague Engine) and 1 sentry (Energy staff) while vanilla has only Lunar Portal Staff and Rainbow Crystal Staff as post ml summons period
People complain about post ml rogue and then there is just summoner
... Wow all tiers post ml are kinda lacking
6 summons and one sentry post provi
6 summons and one sentry post polter
6 summons post dog
2 summons post yharon
north oracle
And relatively few of those summons are actually useful
hollow shell
Calamity adds 4 summons (Wither blossoms, infected remote, resurrection butterfl...
Dayum
Summoner actually has an amount of weapons comparable to the other classes in a tier
Unprecedented
frosty trellis
Um
No
Rover what
Every other class has more weapon on every single tier than summoner does
Post golem
And onwards
Some even more than 3x the amount
hollow shell
14 weapons is a good amount
hollow shell
14 for post golem pre cultists fair
Yes that is the tier that I was referring to
That is why I called it "Unprecedented"
frosty trellis
Fair enough
If they said post ml then I'm all for it summoner has so little
The next lowest not counting auric is pre yharon rogue with 7 but that tier does not need any help until it doesn't have some of the most broken weapons for pre exos rogue
grave zincBOT
@river path - Your suggestion has received an updated status!
[Buff the power of Necro Armor by giving it a unique set bonus]
It has received enough votes to be passed on to the dev server for voting! You'll be notified again when a verdict is reached.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message
@small timber - Your suggestion has received an updated status!
[Make Space Ore Planetoid Generate Non-Duplicated Ore (until there are at least one of each)]
It has received enough votes to be passed on to the dev server for voting! You'll be notified again when a verdict is reached.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message
@shut marten - Your suggestion has received an updated status!
[Make the Wulfrum Acrobatics Pack equipped in the hook slot]
It has received enough votes to be passed on to the dev server for voting! You'll be notified again when a verdict is reached.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message
@median geyser - Your suggestion has received an updated status!
[Make Sulphurous sand and Astral sand usable with the sand gun]
It has received enough votes to be passed on to the dev server for voting! You'll be notified again when a verdict is reached.
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@coarse tartan - Your suggestion has received an updated status!
[Rework Aeralite generation]
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@tame mountain - Your suggestion has received an updated status!
[Give most bosses unique spawning ways and natural spawn occureances to them]
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median geyser
Epic
grave zincBOT
@wary pier - Your suggestion has received an updated status!
[Add favorable item to prevent Cultists from spawning near Dungeon]
It has received enough votes to be passed on to the dev server for voting! You'll be notified again when a verdict is reached.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message
grave zincBOT
@coarse tartan - Your suggestion has received an updated status!
[Rework Aeralite generation]
It has been add to the devs' to-do list and planned for implementation!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message
hollow shell
PSA: The sprite quality Don't has been modified.
It now requests that you try submitting your own resprite in the Art server, instead of requesting it in their media-talk channel like it instructed before.
cobalt pewter
become the spriter
hollow shell
Redirecting people to media-talk was essentially burying their requests instead of actually providing a place where their request would be considered.
Spriters in Art have a history for "bandwagoning" off of sprites put in #asset-submissions, so even if you submit something that sucks, people's attention will still be drawn to that original sprite and they may try their hand as well.
cobalt pewter
"yharon's sprite sucks"
decided to submit a yharon resprite in art server
short walrus
ah, the great sprite bandwagon
sharp timber
roverdrive x is so true
small timber
(it was mentioned earlier that Ammo Box in Calamity cannot be obtained from Travelling Merchant and only from Arms Dealer in Hardmode, but I can't find it in Changelogs so I will assume you can get from both for now)
tardy geyser
(it was mentioned earlier that Ammo Box in Calamity cannot be obtained from Trav...
thats in 1.4.4
tbo ammo box needs an additional effect like increasing projectile velocity or smth
its the only station that doesnt increase dps
small timber
I had suggested that before yeah, though I think it is agreeable that its ammo consumption effect sucks anyway so I will just suggest this for now
(since adding/reworking ammo box effect can be a bit specific, and probably already an idea that devs have just unsure what effect to give it yet)
hollow shell
hrm
tardy geyser
just like rogue ranger is fine without a buff station so if ammo box did get another effect it would have to be small or a common ranger item (maybe deadshot brooch?) would have to be nerfed to not change the balance too much
small timber
currently ranger projectile velocity is not really a "strong" effect other than it activate point blank shot at longer range (which is definitely not intentional), so should be fine
especially that bullets are basically hitscan anyway so it only affect arrows
short walrus
i enjoy this suggestion (daybroken sugg)
though, this would probably be better for a texturepack
the two have different debuff icons, so it can be changed there
hollow shell
the two have different debuff icons, so it can be changed there
Is that true? Are they separate files?
short walrus
yes
hollow shell
interesting
short walrus
188 and 189 for staff and daybreak respectively
ruby plover
188 and 189 for staff and daybreak respectively
Ah, terraria’s file naming structure my beloved
short walrus
relogic file organisation my beloved
fathom aspen
In that Shadowflame's icon on player is drawn by Calamity, I assumed the same goes for Daybroken
fathom aspen
hollow shell
Well it kinda is
ruby plover
Why would it not be
short walrus
a big issue is what i mean
hollow shell
CTP isn't what makes debuff icons appear over enemies
short walrus
but we can change what the debuff looks like (which is what the sugg is asking)
hollow shell
We are able to do that
ruby plover
Yeah, a lot of people don’t
frosty trellis
@pastel crow I think the res on ark throw for ares needs to be upped a bit and Thanatos needs ark res. Twins is fine, SCal Ark is actually a little weak (And overall just really hard to use) but annihilates Thanatos and Ares makes it through a blender and a half before it dies
ruby plover
Ark good on exos? Real?
hollow shell
(remind me tomorrow to go ahead with making that sugg channel Balancing thread)
frosty trellis
Ark is broken as shit on Exos
ruby plover
Interesting
ruby plover
I did actually try it out the other day, I’m surprised I didn’t come to the same conclusion
frosty trellis
Just meh on SCal (And bad for her brothers)
ruby plover
I found it terrible on Thanatos
Granted, I was nohitting, and didn’t get past his first appearance (I.e.: hardly any open vents)
That’s likely it
frosty trellis
I killed Thanatos middle of the 2nd GDR and p5 thanatos was brought to 70 in like maybe 15 seconds
I am yeshitting and play Thanatos a wee bit aggressive so I get those openings how I like it
ruby plover
Are you using the dash?
fathom aspen
imo Thanatos would need resist to many more weapons before even having Ark resist
frosty trellis
Because without staying close at times hitting thanatos can be.... tricky
fathom aspen
After all throw attack requires some timing I guess?
ruby plover
Just curious on if the dash is good, especially on our thana montana
frosty trellis
Are you using the dash?
No GSD, I don't have Aegis to ram him either as I void sash
frosty trellis
I don't ever see it worthwhile
frosty trellis
Ark throw snap does too much to have it be worth and it just gets you hit more often than not
hollow shell
Oh snap I almost didn't notice
@fathom aspen You gotta wait 9ish hours before you can post that Daybroken sugg
2 suggs max
fathom aspen
Oops sry
frosty trellis
Well, there’s the answer
Want me to record me using Ark on Exos?
fathom aspen
so I need to delete it before posting it again or?
hollow shell
Yeah give it a delete
fathom aspen
Okay
hollow shell
((I have the text and image saved as backup))
ruby plover
Want me to record me using Ark on Exos?
nah, its okay
from memory, when i tried it the other day, the only thing i struggled with was first phase thanatos
and you know
obvious reasons for that
frosty trellis
Fair enough
Ark I actually have to swap up my normal exos strat as going Ares first is better
Easier to get parries on Ares (Bobbit hook my beloved) And then can get twins down to 70 easier since I can reliably parry Thanatos's body
ruby plover
actually, i think i was having trouble with thanatos because i was fighting them in hell, and so i had to line him up horizontally
ruby plover
yeah, figured
frosty trellis
I still end up going to the small underground portion of my testing arena a lot for p5 thanatos because he sucks but I digress
Thanatos is the worst exo mech and I will never back down from that
ruby plover
hmm, in his current state i find him the most manageable
that might be nohitter syndrome though
frosty trellis
Yeah no definitely
ruby plover
eh iunno, difficulty subjective yada yada yada
frosty trellis
The openings just make him melt prone so either whatever I'm testing melts him or he takes 8 years to kill
tardy smelt
hihii
ruby plover
appearance
tardy smelt
tardy smelt
The openings just make him melt prone so either whatever I'm testing melts him o...
I think its a really cool idea in theory that in practice boils down to "bonk Thana with an area of effect weapon when he's firing lasers"
tardy smelt
I think its a really cool idea in theory that in practice boils down to "bonk Th...
in a sense it reminds me of Mechawiggler from Super Mario Odyssey
frosty trellis
25% more damage in rev which is what I'm testing in
frosty trellis
I think its a really cool idea in theory that in practice boils down to "bonk Th...
Yeah
Either melt him with something like D.Rage, the Anomoly's Nanogun, Helium Flash, Metastasis or Plasma Grenade, or Suffer
tardy smelt
who's lame not so much because its target practice gimmick doesn't work out in practice, but moreso because its such a cool boss concept that's so underutilised 
tardy smelt
Yeah
Either melt him with something like D.Rage, the Anomoly's Nanogun, Helium F...
I suppose
that's just the way of the worm boss, though
frosty trellis
It's not even just the way of the worm boss
small timber
I think just give back thanatos' pre-nerf level of aggressiveness but make it dont try to hit/contact damage the player actively tbh
frosty trellis
Even without piercing stuff you can do DoG just fine (Soul edge is a good example of that)
And dest is doable without piercing weapons as well
small timber
I think just give back thanatos' pre-nerf level of aggressiveness but make it do...
^ during nonberzerk, and when berzerk it is just full on pre-nerf
frosty trellis
I think just give back thanatos' pre-nerf level of aggressiveness but make it do...
PLEASE
I wanted Thanatos nerfed but then after the nerf realized Hey, you're more inconsistent now, fuck
small timber
I never felt pre-nerfed thanatos was that hard but it was just me
tardy smelt
I'd like to see Thanatos not fire lasers during mecha mayhem honestly
small timber
it had always been manageable (imo) unless you are intentionally having handicaps on movement (eg: not using Drew's wing/celestial tracer)
frosty trellis
I'd like to see Thanatos not fire lasers during mecha mayhem honestly
Mecha Mayhem can be cheesed by running with c.tracers to the left so idk why that matters-
small timber
I'd like to see Thanatos not fire lasers during mecha mayhem honestly
combo phase will be reworked (eventually) anyway
so generally it is mainly solo phase problem now
frosty trellis
Yeah
Specifically phase 5 Thanatos
Or phase 1
Suck
Berserk Thanatos at least has leeway with GDR
And way more consistent and manipulatable openings
frosty trellis
it had always been manageable (imo) unless you are intentionally having handicap...
It was just suffering trying to do Thanatos while using something like Heresy or Phoenix Flame Barrage
tardy smelt
Mecha Mayhem can be cheesed by running with c.tracers to the left so idk why tha...
it'd be cool to be able to outmaneuver/manipulate Thanatos while dealing with the rest without having to worry about getting point-blanked by a vent that opened up around you right as you're squeezing past Thana's body
frosty trellis
So.... run to the left with c.tracers
small timber
It was just suffering trying to do Thanatos while using something like Heresy or...
sorry, prenerf right?
frosty trellis
That's how you manipulate it
frosty trellis
sorry, prenerf right?
Yep
small timber
mecha mayhem is just flawed anyway, it is so much screen spam that if there is no easy way to deal with it (eg: run left), then they HAVE to alternate fire; or to make them do completely different move of course (which is soon™️)
tardy smelt
mecha mayhem is just flawed anyway, it is so much screen spam that if there is n...
fair 'nuff
frosty trellis
Running to the left with c.tracers invalidates the mechamayhem entirely
You literally cannot get hit
tardy smelt
not as bad as 1.5.0.001 mecha mayhem
frosty trellis
Me who started calamity in 1.5.1.6
small timber
1.5.0.001 mecha mayhem was fly up or drop down
tardy smelt
You literally cannot get hit
I got smited by gauss sparks from the nuke a few times but that's about it
small timber
now is left or right (one of them you have to rod laser every once in a while)
depend on small MS different you might just got hit by it or just get pass it everytime
frosty trellis
Yeah can rod the laser going right If I remember my RoD exists
frosty trellis
depend on small MS different you might just got hit by it or just get pass it ev...
1 quick on every tester loadout my beloved
Also weightless candles
fathom aspen
straight flying to the left even works on ftw mayhem cheese confirmed
pastel crow
<@417390376350121986> I think the res on ark throw for ares needs to be upped a ...
Ark
Alright
swift wharf
calamity players try to read challenge
swift wharf
I wonder if it's because elements is an upgrade of ancients
I mean if you used aota you will know about rmb+up, so therefore, you'll do that with aote
flint notch
Maybe, but not knowing about AOTA’s rmb+up in the first place kinda skews that, which again comes down to reading issue
bright crag
<@417390376350121986> I think the res on ark throw for ares needs to be upped a ...
Ark good on Exos?
tardy smelt
<@417390376350121986> I think the res on ark throw for ares needs to be upped a ...
Didchu use regular swings or the snap on Thana....?
I recall the latter being strong on him
small timber
disregarding DPS I think ark should be extremely good for exo and scal in general
the projectile parry aspect I feel is often overlooked
it is the equivalent of 10s CD projectile dodge if you use it well
bright crag
Ark is currently that for SCal
Under killtime with parrying, over killtime without
However, I didn't expect it to be good for Exos, since I've been told constantly that it sucked for them
I'll see how it performs later
gilded scroll
random question, whats the star requirement for suggs being posted to the dev server?
bright crag
^
inner anvil
It's in the pins anyways.
frosty trellis
Ark good on Exos?
Fucking ridiculous on Exos
frosty trellis
Shrug beats me
It was kinda meh on SCal but that's mainly because it sucks for the brothers
The range for the throw is a little short to hit the brothers going up and down
And I was parrying constantly
small timber
I think previously main handicap was ark was super bad for ares to the point of it feels like ares have resistance; so the buff might pushed it just above it
small timber
I remembered it was already decent for twins (I think?) and good for thanatos
yeah or the other way around, I remember for one of the mech it was bad and good on other 2
frosty trellis
It used to be bad for Twins
If feels just right for twins atm
Ares dies in 1 and a half blenders and Thanatos can get deleted in the same amount of time
small timber
(ok I think I was talking about zenith, I realised I didn't really tried ark since I got a 7:30 last time I used it)
frosty trellis
Ah
I got a 4:47 (Thank you p5 Thanatos).
Even with parries on Thanatos and Ares it was way to strong
I don't mind Ark being stronger than everything with parries, but I think over a minute under is excessive
grim tusk
And fuck go back we go with AotC
grim tusk
The range for the throw is a little short to hit the brothers going up and down
So it just needed a range buff and not a dmg buff
AOTC MaxThrowReach 650 -> 660?
Actually exos had their dmg resistances changed right?
Make Thanathos and Ares resist the throw (the one where the sword spins and a constellation connects you to the sword) by 30%
Lets check if this still is the case
frosty trellis
So it just needed a range buff and not a dmg buff
For SCal yeah. It's one of the slower options by far for the brothers and just feels like a slog
Slower than the already weak Zenith
frosty trellis
> Make Thanathos and Ares resist the throw (the one where the sword spins and a ...
Wiki says so
Thanatos needs res to the swing (Just the circular close range swing) and Ares needs more res to the throw
frosty trellis
No bc pre damage buff it was 7 minute Exos
Even with parries
And I love ark. I know how to Parry fairly consistently
grim tusk
Revert dmg buff
Buff throw range
Reduce Exo’s resists to 20%
frosty trellis
No bc then it will be trash for twins
It's already about right for them and it's fine for SCal
Brothers just make it slow since the range isn't quite long enough for me to get the release click snaps
When going up and down
Which happens a fair bit
frosty trellis
Buff range and reduce the party multiplier
I think is fair yeah
Range compensates for SCal and then Exos we shall see but with the parry multiplier down it shouldn't just delete P5 Thanatos anymore
grim tusk
Actually idea:
AotC no longer gets boosts from Melee speed
Revert it to how it was on 1.5.x
grim tusk
I dont recall it being
frosty trellis
(Also why would it? It's swing speed isn't affected by melee speed in the slightest what)
I would know bc my muscle memory hasn't changed equipping DSR over pretty much anything else that doesn't increase melee speed
grim tusk
I’d need to check
Just need to complete chemistry and math hw
At least im good at numbers
Yesterday had to write a philosophy essay
grim tusk
And I also need to finish classes
So I hope i dont get physics hw too
(Engineer moment)
bright crag
Actually idea:
AotC no longer gets boosts from Melee speed
Revert it to how it w...
It doesn't...?
Wasn't it removed
For a time, it converted melee speed to damage
Now, it has no interaction whatsoever with melee speed
frosty trellis
Wasn't it removed
For a time, it converted melee speed to damage
Now, it has no...
Yeah that's what I was thinking
I swore that was removed
bright crag
Yeah
As I was telling Shade, I think it's just a piercing issue
Apparently Exos already have some resistance to Ark, so we can increase that
frosty trellis
Apparently Exos already have some resistance to Ark, so we can increase that
Only to Ark's throw
Ares's ark throw res should be upped but Thanatos just needs an overall ark nerf as the throw isn't the only thing that melts hi
The swing of the blade itself murders Thanatos
bright crag
Could change the iframes...? If it's piercing, increasing the iframes should make it less good for big/long targets and about the same for small targets
If you nerf it overall, it'll just be meh for some bosses and good for others
Which is absolutely not ideal
frosty trellis
Yeah
Which is why I was just saying give Ares and Thanatos better res for Ark
And give it more range bc it sucks ass on the brothers
Which makes it's SCal kt sub par
Usually 5:10-5:30 depending on the parries
bright crag
Which is why I was just saying give Ares and Thanatos better res for Ark
Yeah, that'd be ideal
bright crag
Usually 5:10-5:30 depending on the parries
I got 5:00
frosty trellis
Setup?
bright crag
So it's around 4:40 for parrying, 5:20 for braindead
bright crag
That hasn't been pushed public yet
It hasn't, yeah
frosty trellis
Just needs range to hit the brothers bc when they go up and down the snap can't hit them
Which isn't ideal
Which normally I would just use Burning Sky for that (Or spine of thanatos post exos) for the brothers
bright crag
I think Ataraxia is good too if you can aim
At least, it was in a nohit setup for me
frosty trellis
Ataraxia is good for SCal
Does really well for SCal herself, alright on the brothers, meh for the hearts and okay for the seekers
Lemme go use Ataraxia rq
frosty trellis
Fair
Burning Sky is better but yeah
I literally have a list of what weapons you should use on SCal as melee, pre and post exos LOL
Since I know what's really good where
bright crag
I hope giving Ares and Thanatos a better resist will be doable
I'd hate to see AotC be subpar for SCal
frosty trellis
Ark should be viable on both due to the parry mechanic
Thanatos res to ark throw just needs to be extended to ark itself at the very minimum
And then Ares res increased form 30% res to 50% res
Because the snap does A lot
So yeah
frosty trellis
I think Ataraxia is good too if you can aim
Ataraxia is a little broken
With better aim that can be pushed down to sub 4:30
@bright crag Ataraxia is also broken on exos holy shit
Twins got 2 specials, Ares died right after his 2nd special, thanatos died mid 3rd special
And yes, I did use Ataraxia is t.melee range for Thanatos
Since it's melee... why wouldn't you t.melee thanatos
bright crag
God....
What is Melee rn
Also wdym used true melee on Thanatos
Do you mean exclusively T Hanos or the entire fight
frosty trellis
Also wdym used true melee on Thanatos
Do you mean exclusively T Hanos or the ent...
Ataraxia has a true melee effect so I used that when fighting Thanatos
The true melee effect was also used when Ares was in BLENDER (Only for the start bc I need to be able to dodge the blender when it speeds up) and then can't rly be used on Exo Twins
bright crag
I don't think assuming a true melee is the best decision
That's like assuming Terra Blade's true melee should be used because it's better damage
frosty trellis
Assuming? I was just using the effects bc they're there and deals good damage
The T.Melee effect is kinda necessary for Ataraxia to kill the hearts reliably