Tech Lab forum - General Discussions!

[jade scaffold]

yea the bios is crappilly labeled

there only part thats labeled like that in the Bios allows me to set if a slot can use EFI or not

[cinder lagoon]

if it's done CPU side there might be information about that in the epyc genoa data sheet

[jade scaffold]

perhaps

[cerulean helm]

Dammit, I have run out of pcie lanes on the server.

[jade scaffold]

Shoulda went epyc

[cerulean helm]

lo1, the entire point was the reuse existing hardware. Not buy new hardware.
Also, the server cannot run a VM of windows 11. I'm betting cause the z370 bios is legacy. Win 10 should be fine though for a vm.

[cinder lagoon]

Not being able to run W11 VMs is because your hypervisor does not support all the "secure" bullshit W11 deems "required"

[cerulean helm]

No you can bypass the tpm, and I did via command promt thinking that was the issue.

[cinder lagoon]

I think there's more

[cerulean helm]

That didn't fix the issue. What I believe the problem is, is the z370 board is on legacy bios. That is not compatible with windows 11 at all.

I remember this being an issue because in order to migrate my OS to my new pc I had to convert to UEFI from MBR.

[cinder lagoon]

The entire point of VMs is to not interact with the Host in any unwanted way - I bet your VM program is unable to do W11 or its setup incorrectly.
For example:

[cerulean helm]

Its Truenas Core.

[cinder lagoon]

The Linux software Qemu is able to emulate or pass through both a TPM and an EFI image with key storage. It requires extensive command line arguments and setup to get it running reliably tho

If you enable the option to pass you Processor information (like clock speed, and name) it wont work either because W11 has a whitelist of processor models it's allowed to be installed on

TrueNAS apparently uses bhyve (pronounced "bee hive") as a VM "manager". It seems to support UEFI installations

If you do a test install of W10 on it and use the standalone W11 upgrade exe from Microsoft you'll also get a reason for why it might fail

[cerulean helm]

Hmm, Windows keeps looping during install on the VM. Goes to do its standard reboot and when VNC reconnects its back to the windows install screen like it never started.

That was my next idea, get 10 upgrade to 11. Having trouble atm.

[cinder lagoon]

So bHyve doesn't auto-eject the boot medium - have you tried that?

[cerulean helm]

Okay, 3rd time install and first reboot its now proceeded. I swear.... Windows.

[cinder lagoon]

Ohh I thought you already tried like 5 times 😂

[cerulean helm]

Also, whoops, my cpu fan on the server was unplugged from installing more ram earlier. No issues as the cooler is overkill though.

[cinder lagoon]

Alright good luck from now on ^^

[cerulean helm]

And back to the install screen pick language like windows never installed before. wtf

[cinder lagoon]

Make bHyve remove the installation medium 😭

https://wiki.freebsd.org/bhyve/Windows
and be sure to follow this guide

[cerulean helm]

I will try that, gotta leave the house for a hockey game however.

[cinder lagoon]

Have fun ^^

[cerulean helm]

Well, hockey game was good. Home team won, huge fight near end of game. Good times.

But while at the game I believe I figuired out why the Windows install on the vm was stuck in a loop. I had the ISO image loading from the same folder where the vm lives.

[cerulean helm]

Well, that idea didn't work either.

I think I'm going to try Trunas Scale as that seems a better fit for what I am trying to do. Its also Linex based.

Okay, the update from Core to Scale was, easy. Super easy, and all my pools migrated.

[pearl moon]

You gotta be like me and run your nas with a PC that is below the minspec of truenas, requiring the usage of OpenMediaVault.

[jade scaffold]

so you know that one drive that was showing up yesterday?

gone

i am supremely confused

[cinder lagoon]

I'm unsure if you keep overreading that you might wanna manually eject the installer ISO from the VM or if you just don't answer on it but please tell me if that works

[cinder lagoon]

ubuntu live boot pls i can't take this mystery anymore

[cerulean helm]

Specs of server are 8700k, 64gb of memory, os boot drive is 250gb. Core was running fine, just didn't want to play nice with a windows vm.

[cerulean helm]

Switched to Scale, and was able to get a vm started of windows 10. Spent last night on the Trusnas forum and basically read that scale was better for vms anyways.

[cinder lagoon]

aight

[cerulean helm]

Well, my idea of using a vm as a stream rig has hit s snag. Truenas Scale requires a gpu and I cannot passthrough that gpu to the vm at the same time. Not sure if I can force Scale to use the igpu or not leavinf the 2080 ti for the vm.

[cinder lagoon]

What does scale need a GPU for?

[cerulean helm]

Creating a VM to use as a 2nd stream rig.

I had to change some BIOS setting to enable VT-d to enable virtulization and force the Igpu enables so Truenas would use that.
Ive also isolated the 2080 ti in TrueNas scale. But I'm still getting an error when selecting the gpu in creating the VM.

Added the pcie device to the vm and selected the gpu as well.

[surreal moss]

You're wanting to render the video on the truenas system?

[cerulean helm]

Basically. Ive got a capture card in the server. I had assumed you could run a vm using a descrete gpu and use it as a streaming rig.

I'll come back to it later though.

[cinder lagoon]

Uhh remember that the video data also needs to enter the VM

[cerulean helm]

Would that not be via the capture card?

[cerulean helm]

AHA, Win 10 install with the 2080 ti in a vm successful. Nvidia drivers installed.

[cerulean helm]

Hmm, OBS is not detecting the capture card. Meaning its not being passed through to the vm.

And its not listed in devices to add in the vm software.

[cinder lagoon]

You did not mention you had a capture card.
You CAN use your 2080 for encoding, it just needs video data to encode! A capture card is a separate piece of hardware (which often includes an encoder iirc)

[cerulean helm]

Don't I need a capture card to capture what the gaming pc is doing to to the stream rig (VM)?

[cinder lagoon]

Yes

https://www.elgato.com/us/en/p/game-capture-hd60-x

[cerulean helm]

Which I have installed in the server.

4k60 MK2

[cinder lagoon]

okay then you'll get somewhere

[cerulean helm]

Currently have a display port to hdmi adaptor on the main rig connected to the server capture card in the server.

Yeah, Truenas VM doesn't even see the capture card in devices for pcie passthrough to add to the vm.

[cinder lagoon]

It should display, maybe it has a different name

Research the PCI device ID and look for that

[cerulean helm]

Only thing listed is the Igpu and the 2080 ti.

[cinder lagoon]

Hmm yea thats not it

With ESXi I needed to first go into the entire device list and enable a device for PCI passthrough, have you tried that?

[cerulean helm]

PCIE passthrough is turned on in the motherboard BIOS. Thats what I missed earilier when trying to get the 2080 ti working in the vm.

The screenshot I posted is on truenas scale in the virtulization tab and the devices to pass through to it.

[cinder lagoon]

Yes but I bet TrueNAS has some sort of device tree just like ESXi has, its more or less in the system settings

[cerulean helm]

Just isolating gpus as far as I can see for settings. Only thing listed there is the Igpu and the 2080 ti.

[cerulean helm]

Well, everything I am finding says pcie passthrough to a vm with an elgato capture card is not possible to a vm.

[cinder lagoon]

Thats stupid, its a PCI device like every other one

[cerulean helm]

I would have thought so as well. But I can't find much on it honestly. Just a handful of reddit posts from 3+ years ago.

[cerulean helm]

I wonder if a usb powered capture card could be added as a usb device on the vm. It picks up the keyboard and mouse under usb passthrough devices.

[cinder lagoon]

USB MUST work because well - universal serial bus

But I recall USB capture cards basically being glorified webcams - let me know if you find how well and how they work

[sonic meadow]

thats not what the "Universal" in USB is about

[cinder lagoon]

Well yes but given how USB and USB passthrough is implemented it's so simple it basically cannot fail

[cerulean helm]

Not sure what I'm going to do. The VM as a stream rig thing was an after thought. The main thing was moving system backups to a dedicated server to free up space on my Synology nas. And that part of working great.

Heck. Am4 cpus can still be found new and are fairly cheap now. So could just build an actual stream rig. And as I have a 12u rack coming (looks like Amazon destroyed it in shipping so thats fun) I could get another rack case.

[cinder lagoon]

Hey fellas - for a 5800X3D an NH-U12A or an NH-D15? U12A costs 10€ more

[jade scaffold]

It won't matter really

NHD15 is better at cooling and in theory quieter

Either way the 5800x3D is gonna be nice and chill

[cinder lagoon]

thought so but maybe there was a reason I missed why I should choose the U12A

[jade scaffold]

Nhd15 is old is all

Not sure if they've released the new gen version

[cinder lagoon]

was getting black ones anyway

[sonic meadow]

The d15 may have compatibility issues with some ram

Where the u12 wont

[cinder lagoon]

ehhhh D15 it is

[jade scaffold]

Yea that too

Just get low profile ram the D15 is so big you won't be able to see the ram anyway

[cinder lagoon]

well I already have ram but I wanna change from stock cooler

[cinder lagoon]

aaaaahhhh I can't decide

hmm I took the smaller because I do have RGB ram

[cerulean helm]

Well, looks like a usb capture card will passthrough to a vm. OBS studio is picking it up in the Winsows 10 VM.

[cerulean helm]

And I can project my monitor I'm using (my tv) into obs on the vm, but not my gaming pc. So halfway to getting it working.

[jade scaffold]

it wouldnt really matter either way

you might actually get better performance from the U12

the NH D15 is designed for really really high heat loads so isnt really gonna be that efficient with a low power chip
the U12 can also do really high power chips but it does lean slightly towards the more standard types of chips people might try to use

[sonic meadow]

Pretty sure they perform about the same until you start hitting higher power/heat levels. When running well below their limits most "good" coolers perform about the same

[cerulean helm]

Speaking of coolers, I went overkill on the cooler for the server and glad that I did. I knocked the fan connector off its fan header adding in more ram. Ran the server for 6+ hours and cpu never indicated it wasn't being cooled.

[jade scaffold]

i wish i could have gone over kill on the cooler for my pc but theres literally all of 3 cooling options

and one of thems a £150 EK Cooling block anothers a £450 AIO and the others the tiny lil thing i have on it atm
which mind you tbf ive yet to see 70C on it but still

[cerulean helm]

The shade being thrown.
1-3% improvement for the super.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8p6FhTBol18

[cinder lagoon]

I'll take cheaper

[cerulean helm]

"cheaper" 1k as quoted by Steve:
"We've gone from complete insanity to moderately deranged."

[jade scaffold]

Atleast it's inline with the 7900xtx now

Kinda how it shoulda launched

[mossy gull]

https://www.reddit.com/r/onejob/s/dF6B9tyFIq

[jade scaffold]

XD

[mossy gull]

It would be cheaper they said..........
It would be faster they said.........

Dude, that ain't cheaper, the 4080 Super is more expensive

[jade scaffold]

That's board partner fuckery

That's genuinely nothing to do with Nvidia

[mossy gull]

Still, that's the lowest we can get it for as Nvidia always decides, even though our market here is big for these fuckers, to skip the Founders Edition from the Belenux if it exists.

[jade scaffold]

Reeeal easy to cherry pick

[mossy gull]

For me I chose the 2 cheapest ones

[mossy gull]

This is cherry picking

[jade scaffold]

But yea the 4080 super is about the same price as the 7900xtx

[mossy gull]

Not overhere, in the Netherlands they have Nvidia and Intel tax, making them always more expensive than AMD😅

[jade scaffold]

That's cos you live in a place where tech doesn't seem to reach

[mossy gull]

Correction, the tech lands at the airport, or ports, then being shipped further.
Never reaching our shelves.
We can't even buy something that's made in the Netherlands.

[jade scaffold]

Yea

In the UK I have access to most things

But some fairly niche things don't make it here

NVidias Jetsons are rather hard to get a hold of

Still annoyed amd won't release a proper hedt chip

[mossy gull]

Maybe soon, so far they've been pretty secretive.
We don't even know if we get a RX8xxx or RX9xxxx

[jade scaffold]

Nah

There's not a chance we are getting half decent hedt out of AMD

AMD hate their hedt customers

Everything past Threadripper 2000 is evidence of this

Intel's most recent hedt platform is more reasonable than AMDs

It's nicely priced performance is allright not amazing but it's a tonne of pcie and more memory channel support for really cheap

The really really annoying part about the new hedt threadrippers

I'd they are like a diet diet epyc

They are based on the diet version of epyc and are just cut down from that

I would really like a 4ccd hedt affordable design from amd

[mossy gull]

Intel is like 5000.- for the cheapest 😅

I hope this year's Threadripper would feed my system correctly

[jade scaffold]

It's not

Like this is good pricing

The high end isn't but the low end is

I'd really like an AMD equivalent to this

[mossy gull]

The only interesting 1 is past 2K

[jade scaffold]

What

[mossy gull]

I am not getting a 6 core😅

[jade scaffold]

64 pcie lanes and quad channel memory support for 400 is balling

Yea no I'm saying amd dint have an equivalent

Because amds HEDT platforms are borderline unsupported and aren't made actually for hedt more aimed at pros

[mossy gull]

I have the feeling AMD wants the Threadripper to be a continuation from the Ryzens.
So no 6-core HEDT😅

[jade scaffold]

Which is stupid

[mossy gull]

I just want a Threadripper so I can feed 2 GPUs simultaneously without it slowing down any PCIe lane.

[jade scaffold]

Because 1.5k for the beginner of hedt is trash

Like tr 7000 is just bad

[mossy gull]

I would take that😅
As long I can 3D render and play Star Citizen at the exact same time I am happy

[jade scaffold]

I wouldn't cos I can get a better epyc and a mobo for less

Low-key can get a 8424 which is a 32 core with 6 channel memory support and 96 full pcie gen 5 lanes for like 850ish

[mossy gull]

The question is, can I get it here without paying hefty import fees😅

[jade scaffold]

It's also zen 4C

So it is a bit slower per core

I can get a whole ass server with like a tb of ram with a 8434 which is the 48 core for 2.3k total which isn't bad for 2 psus a bunch of ram and a server mobo tbh

[mossy gull]

I use to rock a 2nd gen Xeon and 2 Vega FE, not to mention I usually disable Turbo so I always am slower than the rest.
As long I can keep doing both without intrusion

[jade scaffold]

Should probs move away from the Vegas

Not very powerful efficient

[mossy gull]

They're on my shelve, I am rocking now the 6700XT.
But I miss having 2 GPUs

[jade scaffold]

Here's the entire Siena lineup if you're interested in looking at them

[mossy gull]

All I need is a 24 cores that aren't like wIntel.
I need equal cores

[mossy gull]

I have been thinking going at least 24-core and 2 7900XTX

[jade scaffold]

The 8224p is 850 USD at its retail price

Which is insane

[mossy gull]

Wait what?
I thought it would be like 3000.-

[jade scaffold]

Nope

This is why I don't like the new trs

Mind you these are again zen 4 C cores not full fat zen 4

But they still perform similar to zen 3

Just way more efficiently

96 pcie gen 5 lanes Vs 88 on tr
6 channel memory Vs 4 channel

Not as absolutely insane as Bergamo or Genoa with their 128 gen 5 lanes + their additional lanes
And their 12 channel memory controller

But none the less 8004 Siena is real nifty

[jade scaffold]

Wait if the 24 core is only 150 more than a 7950x

Is the 16 core cheaper

You see this

This is what amds HEDT should have been

Not super fast by base but you can give it more power and it will go faster

But like it's "cheap" it's got tonnes of memory bandwidth and pcie

It's actually really cool

[mossy gull]

The 4C is already more powerful than Intel's P-core from what I heard, which is pretty damn fast.

[jade scaffold]

It's not

Zen 4c is arround zen 3 so Ryzen 5000

Still very fast

[mossy gull]

Still fast enough, I am happy with the PCIe lanes the most

[jade scaffold]

Well it's a fair bit slower

[mossy gull]

What about this gen Epyc?

[jade scaffold]

8000 is this gen

[mossy gull]

Oh😅

[jade scaffold]

8004 Siena SP6 Zen 4C
9004 Genoa SP5 Zen 4
9004 Bergamo SP5 Zen 4C
9004x 3D V Cache
All the same generation

[mossy gull]

How much do the 9 cost?

[jade scaffold]

Uhhh alot

My 9174F 16 cores 256mb Cache which is a high frequency optimised epyc retails at like 3.8k

That's why I'm so surprised by the price of 8004 it's like flat out reasonable

The cheapest 9000 chip is the 9124 16 cores 32 threads all core boost of 3.6 GHz 64MB of cache

And that's 1k

They sell a Epyc for 400 USD

That's actually crazy

[mossy gull]

Good, I don't mind to pay 1K for that

Actually I do, but hey, I seen worse, like 8K for a 18-core Xeon

[jade scaffold]

Honestly go for the 24 core 8000 series chip

It's more power efficient and cheaper

And power efficiency is really important for you iirc

[mossy gull]

Don't worry, I am going for the 8000.
Not the 9000

[jade scaffold]

Kinda can't get over how low that price is

24 core zen 4c CPU with a minimum 230 GB/s memory bandwidth potentially upto 270 if you can get 5600mhz working

Mobos still gonna set you back like 500-700 but that's 200-500 less than threadripper alternatives

Is that gpio I see

[sonic meadow]

unlikely

[jade scaffold]

https://www.gigabyte.com/Enterprise/Server-Motherboard/ME03-CE1-rev-10

That's a crazy front panel connector

Mind you so is the one on my super micro board

But yea that looks like a good board tbh

Can be got allegedly for 700 euro

[sonic meadow]

yeah, its got some data lines 🤔
amongst other things

[jade scaffold]

That's 1.5k for a 24 core CPU and a mobo

Whole lot cheaper than a 24 core TR and with better connectivity

There will likely be cheaper boards too (gigabytes server boards are typically more expensive than their competitions)

meaning I bet you could do a sub 1k mobo CPU pairing if someone for example just wanted insane amounts of pcie but not needing the CPU cores

Here's one from good ol' Asus

Thoes are 25gb ports on the back that's 50gb total

[mossy gull]

Does Asus have them as well?
I had bad, very bad experiences in the past with Gigabyte so I rather avoid them.

I also need more ports than that😅

[jade scaffold]

yes Asus has boards like this one

Asrock has them too

id recomend Asrock

ASrock have the easiest to use server bios

and their server boards are crazy reliable

[mossy gull]

The amount of ports on the board tends to well, push me away though.
Need more than just 2 USB-A ports

[jade scaffold]

you will NEVER Get any kind of IO on a server board

just get a USB PCIE card you have 96 PCIE Lanes to work with

you can genuinely cram like 50 USB A ports on the back if you really want

[mossy gull]

So I am back to Threadripper?
Keep in mind I want 2 7900XTX on the board, that board has 3 PCIe slots, already making it very tough if 2 slots are already consumed by GPUs and 1 left for whatever.

[jade scaffold]

my board only has 4 usb ports i have an aditional 6 type As on a PCIE Card and 2 Type Cs on an adin card

[jade scaffold]

you then go with an Asrock board

they'll have one with full slots all down the side

[mossy gull]

It's a Threadripper with 7 PCIe slots vs 3 to 4?

[jade scaffold]

no

also no TR will do 7 PCIE slots

not at full speed

[mossy gull]

As long the GPUs get full speed I am happy, as long I have 5 other slots that can be beneficial.

[jade scaffold]

then get the gigabyte board
Gigabytes Server and Consumer devisions arent run by the same people

[mossy gull]

GPUs will be waterlooped before you ask how it'll fit.

[jade scaffold]

To be successful in the Server space you need uncompromising reliability which is why despite ASrocks consumer boards never being particularly reliable their Server ones are some of the most reliable boards on the plannet

ASrocks board

[mossy gull]

The thing I have with Gigabyte is I had 2 motherboards, both business boards, they died on a BIOS level, and Gigabyte didn't want to help me, it was either RMA and pay repair costs or buy a 'new board.
The broken BIOS didn't fall under warranty, and because I had no business they didn't want to help me further.

[jade scaffold]

Supports CXL on most slots too

and as far as asuses board goes
you can fit like a 7 USB card on it 2 GPUs and 12 NVME Pcie Gen 5 SSDs

and its already got 100 Gigabit ethernet built in

[mossy gull]

I mean, that sounds way better than 2 GPUs and 3 expansion cards

[jade scaffold]

heres an offering from Tyan

Bit of a lesser known company because they only do Server stuff pretty much

but thats 4 gen 5 x 16 slots

[mossy gull]

Thats not much

[jade scaffold]

what are you doing

you need GPUs the board has storage options built in
you can put more USB in that than will ever be needed

it also has 2 8x MCIO Connectors and 2 4x MCIO Connectors and 2 M.2 Connectors

[mossy gull]

I am currently already using 12 USB ports, which 4 are USB-C.
I want 2 GPUs so I can render and game at the same time.
I currently have 2 MP600 Pro 4TB and I can fill 64GB RAM easily.

[jade scaffold]

if you are using 12 USB Ports you are doing somthing wrong

that mobo supports like 1.2 TB of ram

it has 2 M.2s so your M.2s will fit

then it has an aditional 24 Lanes that can be dedicated to storage via the MCIO connectors

thats another 6 full fat gen 5 SSDs

then 2 whole spare gen 5 PCIE Slots which a single one of could easilly field 16 USB 3 10gbps ports

[mossy gull]

"HOTAS" uses 3, 2 Streamdecks, 2 mice(1 normal and 1 trackball), Keyboard, Avermedia AX310, Tobii 5, Xbox controller and 2nd 8BitDo controller

[jade scaffold]

any USB perifferal thats an input method will work fine being ran off a single port through a USB Hub

[mossy gull]

I have yet to find a USB hub that has more than 4 USB-C.

My "HOTAS" is on USB-C and so is my keyboard.

[jade scaffold]

then just like get one of these

and you easilly have 2-4 ports left over

because you also have your front pannel headers

[mossy gull]

Front panel headers are like 2 ports,

I like to keep like 4 USB-A ports for my mice dongles, the rest can go to USB-C

[jade scaffold]

yea 2 front + 2 Mobo + 8 Card + the 4 on the lil usb C Hub - 1 because the USB C hub is using 1
gets you 15

leaves you with 5 Useable Type C ports and 10 USB A ports

• on alot of these board the literal USB A port that sits on the mobo thats really meant for a boot drive but theres no rules saying you cant stick a mouse/ keyboard dongle in there

alternativly

get a USB 4 PCIE Card
then run a really big USB 4 Hub

[mossy gull]

So it's either 2 GPUs, 1 NVMe card and 1 USB card on an Epyc board.
Or 2 GPUs, and having tons of expansion on a Threadripper.
While Epyc sounds nice for the price.
If I have to buy 4 other hubs that aren't USB3, then they're pretty much around the same price.
On the Threadripper boards I even get build in Thunderbolt 4.
For what I want and may need in the future.
I rather have as much as possible extension over starting cheaper.
Unless there's a Epyc with more IO, it just feels unappealing to me.
The versatility of a Threadripper, sadly at a higher price from the start feels better

[jade scaffold]

you wouldnt need a NVME Card on a EPYC board

you have the Dedicated NVME Connectors

the Tyan board can do 8 gen 5 x4 NVME SSDs

the asus board can do 12

[mossy gull]

The add-in cards I have been looking at have this "hot swap" ability, then I dont have to open the case.
And U.2, I dont want to mess with a million adapters or 2nd hand gear

[jade scaffold]

bruh just commit to the bit and put it in a rack case

good god

you can then use actual proper hotswap bays

and thoes NVME Connecters are just one wire into a back plane

and then the entire front of you case is hot swap NVME

besides No NVME SSD form factor other than the one really new one can just slot into a PCIE Slot m.2 doesnt support proper hot swap

[mossy gull]

I want to hang the rack vertical.
But I am pretty much certain I have the back topside in my set-up.

I know it sounds weird, but I dont have much more space and the cooler will be near the window

[jade scaffold]

E1 is the only form factor that will fit in a standard PCIE slot and have actual safe hot swap support

which is one of these

[mossy gull]

I mean it doesnt have to be hot swap per say, as long I can pull them out withouth having to pull out the rack and disconnect everything

[jade scaffold]

then use U.2

and use a proper front bay

rather than jumping through the 700 hoops you are going through to try and get removable drives

[mossy gull]

I have been looking at something like this
https://www.amazon.nl/-/en/gp/product/B0C2THMWWK/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_3?smid=&th=1

[jade scaffold]

or

you could just have this

[mossy gull]

But if I am gonna watercool, tubes through the front feels like a chore of drilling through multiple layers

[jade scaffold]

get a server case that

ya know

has water cooling support

theres loads of them lots of data centres use them

[mossy gull]

But they're usually at the back no?
Or well thats what I know of.

[jade scaffold]

depends

like this is a thing

[mossy gull]

All I can get decently easy are Inter-Tech, Chenbro and Silverstone

[mossy gull]

That looks pretty cool, just, well, the case still will be hanging, either back or front topside.
I dont know what's better though.
As storage I am not gonna mess with HDDs anymore, consumer SSDs are cheap and easy to get, so if they break no biggy, as I have no business, getting server hardware is generally a lot more complicated.
Like I said, I rather have new over 2nd hand.

I will be using watercooling from Alphacool, as they have the coolest stuff at non EKWB price

[jade scaffold]

the last alpha cool block i had died

just rapidly corroded for like no reason

[mossy gull]

That's............ weird

[jade scaffold]

not all the boards for the new epycs are out yet anyway More should come out ones specialised in just having as many PCIE Slots as possible

not as many are made any more though because their intent is for GPU servers

and PCIEs standard slot type is kinda dead in the server space when it comes to GPU servers because everyone uses SMX type form factors

[mossy gull]

Lets say I rather have less RAM slots, I really dont need 8 or 12, all I need is 128GB or 256GB, and more PCIe slots

[mossy gull]

Well, if consumer market goes to that then I will move to SMX

[jade scaffold]

i doubt it tbh

SMX has some really big advantages

but its a bit less consumer friendly

heres a ASrock board for SP5 they'll likely make somthing similar for SP6

[mossy gull]

I mean, most consumers hang onto the old.
Just like how USB-B still hasnt died

[jade scaffold]

USB B is mostly dead

its only if you buy somthing turbo cheap that it uses it

[mossy gull]

Printers still use it, even 800,- printers

[jade scaffold]

but yea SMX Has the advantage Of it doesnt need any wires to power it it just powers through the mobo
but the disadvantage is its like a CPU socket kinda deal you have to put your own cooler on the socket could change depending on needed features

[mossy gull]

USB-A also can die to be honest, you can fit twice the amount of USB-C on the space of USB-A

[jade scaffold]

honestly USB A is fine id rather C but A is fine enough

Advantage of SMX Is the ability to slap enormous tower coolers onto it

[mossy gull]

That shouldn't be an issue for the real PC builders.
I mean I seen enough PCs where the GPU cooler is replaced by 1 from EKWB or Alphacool

[jade scaffold]

downside you have to slap an enormous cooler on a peice of bare silicon

[mossy gull]

That should have been possible from the start

[mossy gull]

Been there, done that.

[jade scaffold]

SMX in its current iteration can do 700W of Power delivery
Tbps Transfer speed between multiple modules fun stuff like that
however it would take up alot of flat area on a Mobo

SMX has been through like 4 or 5 iterations now so its not a consistent standard that they just make faster each gen atleast not at the moment

[mossy gull]

Flat area that's now being consumed by NVMe ports

[jade scaffold]

and pasting a GPU correctly is somthing that many people might not do resulting in the GPU dying because part of it burnt out

[jade scaffold]

yea like where are your NVME Ports going now

you can do what asus used to do and have them stick out upwards from the board

[mossy gull]

I seen it on many MSI boards lately, I prefer them between the PCIe slots

[mossy gull]

Asus is wack, but it is a possibility

[jade scaffold]

like SMX Modules are tiny but thats alot of flat space to take up on a mobo

kinda Kills ITX

[mossy gull]

These SMX cards look a bit like MXM cards

[jade scaffold]

kinda

[mossy gull]

Not if you make an ITX in an L form🙃

[jade scaffold]

MXM connected from the side and was literally just small PCIE pretty much

you could do this i guess if you wanted a SXM to just go in a PCIE Slot

[mossy gull]

Or hear me out, many ITX cases and build have the GPU behind the motherboard, what if you put the SMX on the back of the motherboard, behind the CPU?

[jade scaffold]

if you look at this one this ones using a different connector this is the newest one

thats the issue ATM SXM keeps changing

because they want to do more with the data centre gpus they have to change it up fairly often

[mossy gull]

They need to come up with a connector, like those weird laptop display "lego" connectors

But still, SMX would fit very well in an ITX

Just redesign it a bit

[jade scaffold]

it would need a pretty big redesign

SXM is designed arround turning many GPUs into 1 GPU

kinda a waste of design effort to throw that on a mobo

not to mention then SXM might completely change the form factor of mobos

[mossy gull]

Dual GPU ITX PC?
I am up for it

[jade scaffold]

youd have a CPU then a GPU under it then maybe a PCIE Slot for PCIE devices

you can buy a V100 SXM2 GPU off of Ebay for like £200

thats kinda cool

[mossy gull]

You can place the GPU behind the CPU though, leaving the PCIe slot free

[jade scaffold]

getting the main boards for them though is the real challence

[jade scaffold]

that might be hard

[mossy gull]

When is anything ever easy

[jade scaffold]

true but then all ITX Cases are out of luck pretty much

its kinda a hastle

PCIE Has its issues

but we've got CXL creeping onto the PCIE Spec which fixes like most of the issues

[mossy gull]

To be honest, GPUs these days are oversized, dont get me wrong but there should be a better way to cool something down instead of copper

[jade scaffold]

there isnt really past liquid cooling

[mossy gull]

Peltier

[jade scaffold]

Vapor chambers and heat pipes kinda will remain king

[jade scaffold]

lamo

not a chance

[mossy gull]

I know

[jade scaffold]

GPUs are far too power dense for Peltier to cool

[mossy gull]

Peltier is cool though

[jade scaffold]

you also guess what

end up needing to cool more than what you origionally had to anyway

[mossy gull]

And sometimes Peltier is the only solution

[jade scaffold]

because you now have to somehow get rid of the Heat from the GPU the Peltier device has transfered in adition to the heat from powering the device

a Peltier device the size of a GPU die literally isnt capable of cooling the GPU and will instead Heat it up as when overwhelmed they become very good insulators

[mossy gull]

You know the biggest problem.
We still use thermal paste, which kinda suck at transferring heat.
Phase Change pads and Liquid Metal cools like 10 times more efficient unless you HP and Asus using the cheapest liquid metal.

[jade scaffold]

a frankly huge peltier device like a 40mm x 40mm one could only just cool my EPYC at IDLE

[mossy gull]

They need to build better Peltier devices.
Peltier is like EVs, They exist for a long tie without innovation till it's too late and making the change is the hardest thing of mankind.

[jade scaffold]

its just not posible to make better ones

thats the issue

the peltier effect has its limits

its a bad way to cool any high power electronic component period

[mossy gull]

Then also use better thermal interface material.
If they keep using thermal paste then you need bigger and bigger coolers.

[jade scaffold]

because all you end up doing is yes you cool down the chip More but then you need an EVEN BIGGER heat sink

the Peliter effect doesnt magically banish heat to the shadow realm all it does is very quickly move it from one side of a plate to another

[mossy gull]

Maybe we need to work with dark matter😅

[jade scaffold]

which means you have to cool the other side of the plate anyway which requires a Bigger heatsink than just direct cooling

to make the GPUs them selfs smaller we need to actually spread out their heat load alot more then wick that heat away as fast as possible

[mossy gull]

Or use multiple smaller GPUs and make them work like 1

[jade scaffold]

i recon it might be possible with thoes weird Air Jet fans the flat ones because they move air at like 200kmph and scale directly with surface area

[mossy gull]

Also, phase change pads are cool, they keep my laptop at 45c in idle with fans at low speed, something even, Conductonaut cant do

[mossy gull]

Nah, lets do a step up and have an EDF with 20KG of thrust

[jade scaffold]

Frore systems Air Jet is actually really cool

genuinely very cool

[mossy gull]

They are, but are they also incompatible with certain electricity standards?

[jade scaffold]

no?

[iron rock]

So the battery in my UPS started reading as bad. I replaced it and went from 10mins of run time down to 4 despite the battery saying it was the same Amphours. shit battery but as far as I can tell ALL the replacement batteries are shit. now the damn thing is down to less then 1 mins of run time and turns off the computer with any line noise or momentary brownout. I need a replacement, any recommendations?

and why the hell are all of these stupid things still using lead acid batteries?

[jade scaffold]

probably because a Lithium battery of the physical size thoes things are are Very very expensive and potentially Highly exploosive

you can Get lithium Ones tho

[mossy gull]

I thought Linus did a video about it where they said it wouldnt work with 110v or something, or was that something else XD

[jade scaffold]

thats somthing else

it'd never run on 110V anyway thats wall power nothing in computers runs at that high voltage

[iron rock]

nonsense, LiFePO batteries are plenty safe and not very exspensive, they are infact now much cheaper then lead batteries. there is no reason to still be using lead acid

they are just worse in every way

[jade scaffold]

there has to be a reason

and its probably 90% down to price

also theoretically capable of Higher discharge rates aparently

[iron rock]

its down to the makers of them being idiots. I just looked up lithium UPSs and they cost more then the "silent generator" things that are just lithium ion battery packs

you can get a 1kw portable power station for around 300 bucks!

[jade scaffold]

from what im reading it comes down to Lead Acid being easier to Manufacture

though they die if fully discharged and left that way for a little while and have a more limited ammount of discharge cycles

meaning you'd have to replace them more often

[iron rock]

does anyone at least know of a reputable seller of UPS replacement batteries that dosnt cost more then just fucking replacing the UPS?

because buying the replacement battery from APC is literally the same damn price as replacing the entire thing

and its not even a new battery, its a refurb

I swear I am going to go buy a damn car battery instead

[jade scaffold]

maybe at that point its worth considering selling the thing and buying a brand that maybe has cheaper first party lithium batteries that wont die rapidly

[iron rock]

I cant buy a lithium one, they all cost over a thousand bucks

I cant even afford the $60-80 replacement for this thing

[jade scaffold]

ah

[iron rock]

I need an RBC17 at least 7amp but I would like 9. the OEM was 7

[jade scaffold]

wow yea almost none of them are Lithium

[iron rock]

and for anyone else NEVER buy a MightyMax battery

[jade scaffold]

Duracell apparently sell then

really?

i mean it makes sense

atleast duracell is gonna be good quality i think do you have duracell in the US?

[iron rock]

where are you seeing those?

[jade scaffold]

they poped up in the google shopping tab on amazon aparently

[mossy gull]

Duracell so far are much better than other I had lately

[jade scaffold]

7Ah 12V RBC17 lead acid too

they have a 9Ah too but i'm not sure its the same form factor though they do look near enough idential

seriously why are most UPS Batteries Lead Acid thats weird

[iron rock]

they are the same

[jade scaffold]

Ultra Max
Sell a RBC17 12V lithium battery but it looks sketchy and theres a little bit of conflicting info on the page

[iron rock]

well apperently they dont sell them in the US, infact the only ones for sell here are brands no one has heard of

[jade scaffold]

honestly if you can get duracell
in the battery space they are super reputable so they are probs best

oh damn

[iron rock]

can you give me a link?

[jade scaffold]

Amazon.Com doesnt seem to have them only .Co.uk has the duracell ones
maybe it'll let you import it?

ill try get link for you

[iron rock]

I want to be able to look at it, see what the model number is and see if the price is sane

[jade scaffold]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Duracell-Original-DR7-12-Regulated-Battery-Black/dp/B07CTPTQH1

heres the 7Ah one

lost the 9Ah one

https://www.duracelldirect.co.uk/pno/dr9-12b.html

not sure if thats the same thing but 9Ah or what

but thats direct from their website

[mossy gull]

It is, it's a metric measurment

[iron rock]

after pulling the lable off the OEM battery that died. its not actually APC brand, its a CSB. so they are reselling CSB batteries at a full 2x markup. nice... well I will just order a CSB battery for 32 bucks instead of 70 and call it good

and hope I dont get another bad one.

[balmy flicker]

there are a lot of car parts that work that way

[jade scaffold]

Wait you actually can just buy them from scan

Tempted for the purposes of tinkering but might get one of the Ryzen apus thoes will have overclockable zen 4C cores the epycs unlikely to be unlocked

[jade scaffold]

Hyte have made a wiiide boi

Looks like it has a slim Nas connector on it too

[cinder lagoon]

Thats a really interesting format - what do you mean with slim Nas connector?

[sacred seal]

What the fudge is with the power delivery on that? 8pin + a four pin eps, and its on the back of the board?

[sonic meadow]

almost all the IO is on the back

[sacred seal]

Is there a single case in existance with motherboard standoffs large enough for wire routing on this thing?

Also 6 USB 2.0 ports for some reason?

And there is even space for the power connectors to be on the front of the board?

[sonic meadow]

seeing as all the other IO was also on the back it is clearly a deliberate choice rather than a necessity

[sacred seal]

Yea, but why? Neat idea in priciple, having no wires come through the front of the board, but I have never seen a case with cutouts that would allow for actual cable routing

Not to mention having enough space behind the motherboard tray to actually plug in a 24 pin

[sonic meadow]

I imagine there will be a few coming out, a motherboard did get demoed at one of the tech expos... last year?

[sacred seal]

The cpu fan headers are on the back side of the board...

[sacred seal]

Well now I have seen a case that supports that

[sonic meadow]

https://www.msi.com/PC-Case/MAG-PANO-M100R-PZ

[cinder lagoon]

You must not have heard of Project Stealth, Project Zero and similar.
Motherboard and case manufacturers are working together to create standarts for mobo tray cutouts that make it possible to have ALL cables on the back

Including GPU wiring (it's done via a big pad on the edge like a PCI connector but the motherboard is a passthrough

[jade scaffold]

Yea honestly pcs with no wires look naked

Right angled connectors with some nice sleeved cables are the best

[sacred seal]

It will be interesting to see what ends up happening, and how they handle the whole matx, mitx, atx situation

[jade scaffold]

I think it would be kinda cool to one day be able to ditch the big connectors we currently have and replace everything with small connectors and wires for a bit more modularity on how a case is able to be layed out

Like just a single power cable into the mobo pcie for gpus done over the little 8x slots

Gives some easy options for real goofy case layouts which I always appreciate also makes itx builds easier the standard pcie 16x risers are a pain

[sacred seal]

Just looking at it it seem like this board may not fully work with the M100R
Looking at this the 24 pin is right at the edge of the cutout, whereas the ports exceed that by a fair margin

If it fits its going to be awful tight

So clearly there are some growing pains that will still need to be sorted out with this standard

[sonic meadow]

The board is apparently a slightly different size from the one that I think is showing in those shots

[jade scaffold]

Yea everyone needs to agree on how to standardise this

[sacred seal]

Those are two different boards. The one on the left is project zero, the one on the right is the hyte one

I was just pointing out that like the one case that is comercially avaliable that the hyte board can fit in seems like it wont actually fit it properly

Unless of course you dont want to plug in your front panel headers

[sonic meadow]

Have a look at the screw holes rather than some line you pulled out of thin air.

[jade scaffold]

Who needs plugged in front pannel connectors anyway

Just poke power with a screw driver or a spork or some shit

[sacred seal]

Here, I will use a proper line. Its pretty clear that the second row of connectors are to the left of the 24 pin power. Does it look like the cutout on the project zero is wide enough that you could fit an entire sata cable between the 24 pin and the case?

[sonic meadow]

Yes

[sacred seal]

To me it seems that in the m100r the 24 pin is fairly centered in its cutout

To me its looking way to close

[sonic meadow]

That motherboard will have the 24 pin towards the left edge of the cutout (look at the screw holes, it's basically centered on them), leaving plenty of space to the right in the fuckoff large cutout they show

[sacred seal]

The 24 pin on the project zero is in the same postion on the board as on the hyte

Infact, reltive to the screw holes it may be even further over

Thats the project zero

[sonic meadow]

And this is a shot of something with stuff plugged in, and the plenty of space being visible. Admittedly a different case

[sacred seal]

I'm not saying its impossible. The m100r is an actually released product though, and to my knowledge the only one that is you can buy right now

If the first publicly available motherboard and the first publicly available case in this form factor dont work together, we may have some issues with this standard

[sonic meadow]

Heh

Truth

"It's like e-atx, but even less standardized" - GN Steve probably

[sacred seal]

Sounds about right

Think there needs to be a "somehow" in there though

[sonic meadow]

Yeah, agreed

[mossy gull]

Looks like an ITX got fat

[jade scaffold]

its weird i dont get it

it wont fit in many itx cases

it'll fit in ATX and M ATX cases

but

why wouldnt i just get an MATX board at that point

[sacred seal]

Well even if the it cases were wide enough it is almost certain that they would not have the right cutouts

Mabey they are hoping that wide itx will become a thing?

At least as it stands this should be compatible with any atx case with back cables. No one seems to be discussing a standard that would work with it proper yet

Zero is matx and stealth is atx

[mossy gull]

DTX, that is a brilliant form factor as it'll fit in majority ITX cases

[mossy gull]

https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/s/SnDa1fssEP

[cinder lagoon]

That is not entirely true, the left edge is vertical while the one in the image is not

[mossy gull]

I don't use a standard cursor

[cerulean helm]

Dammit, managed to bump the clear CMOS button on the back on the motherboard IO plugging a USB cable in. So, now I get to slowly figuire out what all my old settings were. Lost the bios profile that was saved.

Looks like I managed to get the same OC settings dialed in. Asus saved the cooler specs for its "AI" Overclocking so it reapplied the same MHz and voltage.

[cinder lagoon]

Hah same. My server mobo has 3 buttons in the top right corner (which I can't really see), two are black, one is blue.
One is a regular power button, one a reset button and the third clears out the BIOS...
I feel like these sorta buttons should only activate when holding or whatever 🤔

[jade scaffold]

forza horrizon 5 has decided that it no longer wants to run at playable FPS

GPU idling at 210 mhz while in the game

and the graphics just randomly look like crap

[cinder lagoon]

I've been having issues since the last couple days with war thunder 🤔
FPS randomly goes to crap (in menus) and game sometimes hangs in game until I alt-tab quickly.
coincidentally radeon software refuses to launch after I made the update because Qt6.dll is missing
maybe those two are related?

[mossy gull]

If you play on the Hot Wheels DLC, well, it has issues with ReBar and anything like it.

[jade scaffold]

Restarting fixed it

No idea what was causing that

[mossy gull]

ReBar, it's the bane of Horizon 5

[jade scaffold]

honestly not even sure i have ReBar

I might do

[hasty rose]

intel core i7-7700 vs intel core i5-13400 which is better? I know the i7 is faster and the i5 has more cores?

[jade scaffold]

the i7 7700 isnt even close to being as fast as a i5 13400

in any way

the 7700 caps out at 4.2Ghz
the 13400 does 4.6Ghz and its Ghz are worth more than the 7700s

[mossy gull]

GHz mean nothing though

There's just 6 years of performance increase

[jade scaffold]

Pretty much

The 7700 is a low end chip now

[cerulean helm]

When your home server goes "brrr"

[jade scaffold]

Noice

[jade scaffold]

still no MI300A benchmarks or really much info on the state of if the drivers of kernel for it will be open source

ROCm is open source which is like amds equivalent to cuda but other than that info on the mi300s is relatively sparse

[jade scaffold]

Huh
thats uh not bad

who ever the guy getting a P40 for that price must me maulding about that shit
mind you getting the SMX NVLink Board for thoes things is a pain in the ass especially for a reasonable price

[sacred seal]

Yea, if I recall correctly the boards started at like 600 cad, which is more then I spent on the entire system

Also need 24 GBs of vram, so I would have needed two of those

[jade scaffold]

the boards for them are some what ramdomly priced

ive seen them for as little as £60 and as much as £1200

no one seems to know how to price them

[mossy gull]

@jade scaffold
https://youtube.com/shorts/PlcIjlHlEr4

[deft star]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pi0_wzdz7aY
"ACEMAGIC Mini PC" are sold with malware

[mossy gull]

https://youtube.com/shorts/WHspQt5mZ6M

[jade scaffold]

The new Ryzen 8000 APUs are using normal thermal paste between the ihs and die so if you get one it's worth deliding it

[mossy gull]

Lets put PTM7950 between the IHS and the CPU😃

[jade scaffold]

Nah bare die liquid metal between it and a NHD 15

Mind you you could probs with a deluded one put one of noctuas small cookers on it and it's be fine even overclocked

[mossy gull]

But the contact frames aren't low enough for it

[jade scaffold]

There are adaptors

Even noctua make them now

[mossy gull]

The adapters are too high, DerBauer said so

[jade scaffold]

Because am5s ihs is well and truly trash

[mossy gull]

https://youtu.be/VNYx72Elgss

[jade scaffold]

Then shave like a mm off them

[mossy gull]

0.4 mm to be exact

[jade scaffold]

Yea that's like a good 2 seconds of rubbing on sand paper

You're already voiding your warrantee

[mossy gull]

What about the screws then?
You also sand them down?

[jade scaffold]

You could

Though I don't think there's a screw stop on the back plate so the screws don't really need to be sanded

Also it's only the silicone that's shorter the PCB is about the same so you are only sanding off the top a lil

[mossy gull]

I am very bad with sanding something like this down, nor do I have equipment at hom that can measure this

[jade scaffold]

just buy a Vernier caliper

good ones arent even that expensive
only super calibrated ones are and you dont need one of thoes for .4mm

[cinder lagoon]

there's this die sanding kit which is basically an acrylic block with specific height steps that get sanded down evenly with the die so you see how far you are and wether you are level or not

Fairly inexpensive, just requires to choose the right one for your CPU's height and socket iirc

[mossy gull]

Yooohhhh, can you send a link?

[cinder lagoon]

https://www.thermal-grizzly.com/en/cpu-lapping-tool/s-tg-ilt-12-g
it was this but not sure who / if they make one for epyc or anything

Gaht dangit my Start menu is broken :/

[mossy gull]

Just need it for the R7 8700G, need something to shave nanometers off 1 contact bracket

[cinder lagoon]

With "contact bracket" do you mean those legs of the IHS?

Also: nanometers are the wrong meters - I believe you mean micrometers, unless you try to remove about a handful layers of atoms

[mossy gull]

I meant contact frame🤣
I want to make a small system I can take with me when I get a camper, and the 8700G is perfect with a 7600XT.
But well, contact frames are 0.4mm too thick.

Apparently the temps on the 8700G are atrocious

[cinder lagoon]

The ones from thermal grizzly are too thick? Did they change the die height from the 7000 series to 8000?
I think you would be better off giving the contact frame to a machine shop (its made of metal anyways, aint it?) and giving them your measurements

[cinder lagoon]

My radeon software installers are also broken (anybody else got Qt6<something>.dll errors during installation?)

[jade scaffold]

8000s die height is slightly smaller

so the contact frames are a tad too thick

nothing some sand paper cant fix

[cinder lagoon]

In that case use calipers

[jade scaffold]

its only .4mm shorter its a very small ammount to sand down

also a Epyc Delid would be awesome

[mossy gull]

I still need to make a frame for my mouse as well

[cinder lagoon]

Well kinda but since its metal and kind of a big surface its still gonna take like half an hour#

[jade scaffold]

i would really wanna do an Epyc Delid
but also i wonder if direct liquid to Die cooling is possible
Like no interface material atall just fluid streight onto the dies with obviously a fancy seal to prevent the liquid spilling everywhere

[mossy gull]

I want to make my mouse bigger, there just haven't been a mouse design I really liked other than the 1st gen Microsoft Explorer Bluetrack mouse.

[mossy gull]

Would it even be beneficial?

[cinder lagoon]

Epyc has different die heights, doesn't it?

[jade scaffold]

if you wanted to do some Overclocking on ES Samples yea

[jade scaffold]

Epyc uses the same dies as standard Zen 4 for Genoa

literally uses the same Zen 4 Chiplets

[cinder lagoon]

I mean multiple die heights on the same package

[jade scaffold]

i dont think so i think the IO Die is the same height as the 12 Zen 4 dies are

[cinder lagoon]

Hmm aight

[jade scaffold]

Bargamo might have different die heights unsure tho

they are also soldered on like with the standard AM5 and AM4 CPUs
Which makes deliding them a bit more iffy

[cinder lagoon]

All the capacitors around the dies also don't add to simplicity

[jade scaffold]

yea they are all actually under the IHS

so not too bad of a chance of knocking them off while deliding they are also covered in like hot glue or somthing normally

it looks like hot glue is it actually hot glue god knows

similar sorta thing to am4

[jade scaffold]

Man I'm so disappointed in arm soc makers

-apple proves arm socs are totally viable for desktops. Microsoft makes windows compatible with arm

-Arm soc makers don't even budge

-nvidia and ampere prove it works in the data centre arm soc makers don't budge

-light weight handhelds that need highly efficient processors become popular arm soc makers don't budge

The best you ass hats can come up with for makers to use is the RK3588. Perish you boring mfs like where's my snapdragon XR2 Gen2 on a tiny lil SBC

[mossy gull]

The thing is programming for ARM is what's stopping people.
If X86 is still widely more popular in the PC market, why try for SoCs.

Not to mention, the translation layer for SoCs to support X86 is still in its baby steps.

[jade scaffold]

The translation layer really isn't in its baby steps Unless you'd also consider gaming on Linux as in baby steps

And yea x86 is more popular because no one makes worth using arm systems

I'm also annoyed at the lack of any good x86 SBCs they pretty much all run celleron level trash from 6 years ago

Even though you can fit a whole ass computer on something with a smaller top down profile than current gen epyc

[mossy gull]

It's in baby steps on windows desktops programs.
I have tried the Surface Pro X I think it's called, and it still doesn't work with 64-bit X86 programs, only 32-bit ones.
So I think it's partially also on MS's side.

Apple does it well, but sadly not well enough.
While I would like an SoC, AMD's APUs are still crushing it for games.
25w and having almost the performance of 1060.
Probably has the performance of the 1060 but benchmarks are weirdly in favour of Nvidia.
And Apple struggles to make games feel stable because of their cooling, seriously Apple, put in some beefy cooling into the MBP and let it ramp up in games.

[jade scaffold]

The thing is I'd be happy running android
I can play every Nintendo game every ps3 game and down on an android device
But no company wants to release an arm mini pc or SBC that even comes close to comparing to phones and it's just sad

Like can we have 1 SBC that even manages to scrape apples M series chips that isn't NVidias Jetsons

Sadly Jetsons only run some cursed version of Ubuntu if they could run android that would be great

also the new APUs dont actually have the same performance as a 1060
they get close in some games but it turns out when you test a much wider variety of games theres quite a few instances of them falling well below 20% short

[mossy gull]

Which can be solved mostly by direct die cooling and faster RAM.

[jade scaffold]

it cant

the issue is latency

GPUs need really really really low latency placing the ram 2 PCBs away from it cripples performance

even with 8000Mhz DDR5 If you can even get it to work they only win in edge cases against the 1060 and still loose by a massive margin against it

also love the look of this thing
would be nice to ya know have an SBC with that processor in

This things gonna be an emulation king

https://www.ayaneo.com/product/AYANEO-Pocket-S.html

Actually awesome bet it wont be cheap tho

[mossy gull]

The advantages the APU has are that the "VRAM" is scalable though.
The fact it comes very close is really important.

[jade scaffold]

it comes very close on very rare ocasions

not indicitive of general performance

infact laptop varients of the 8700g might actually be way faster

because they will be able to have 7600mhz ram soldered right next to them without the Enormous performance crippling latency that dimm based DDR5 will give

[mossy gull]

Tell that to the PC Enthusiasts that say "Soldered RAM is bad"

The advantages the 8700G has is that it can OC way past the laptop variants

[jade scaffold]

not if you want good performance out of a GPU its not

[jade scaffold]

ehhhhh

ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

not really

its not even got that in its favor
Some laptops will have it super locked down but some of the mini PC Boards just dont

[mossy gull]

I guess you forget, laptops like the overheat😃

[jade scaffold]

Asrocks 4x4 lets you do what ever the hell you want with the thing it doesnt care

[mossy gull]

I personally don't mind it as long it isn't some cheap slow RAM

[jade scaffold]

honestly its a confusing chip overall
On the one hand super budget gamers rejoice cheap playable games
On the other hand its stability is crippled by Ram latency its kinda stupidly designed power budget wise like why does it have 8 cores
why does it have 8 cores? Why full fat Zen 4 cores why not Zen 4C cores? then you can shift more power budget to the GPU of it I kinda get it from the stand point of "oh we want people to be able to just slap a gpu in later" which sure is valid but the poor gpu you are already chocking out could do with a little extra help no?

also not a Chiplet APU which made me sad

[mossy gull]

I think it has to do with that the 8700G kinda already exists, just more lower clocked for laptops and that they just took that and basically super clocked it.

[jade scaffold]

yea they gave it that intel treatment of Heres socket power enjoy

one day i hope to be blessed by the true form of the chiplet APU
Zen C-3D Chiplet + IO Chiplet + or / GPU Chiplet + HBM Chiplet

[mossy gull]

I would prefer a full fat Zen core and just unlocked power

[jade scaffold]

a Zen chiplet would be nicer yea

but also physically bigger

makes cramming HBM on with it a bit more challenging

unless you can stack HBM ontop of all the other chiplets

can you stack hbm

[mossy gull]

You can stack HBM yes.
It's actually meant to be stacked.
Take a look at the Vega 64 and Vega FE.
Same GPU, but the FE had double the HBM.

[jade scaffold]

you can stack HBM on itself

can you stack HBM ontop of a processor i would asume its possible but is HBM Thinn enough for that

[mossy gull]

I don't think it's possible heat wise, however most CPU sockets have space enough for 16 laptop cores and a GPU with an HBM right next to it.
The problem is the heat it'll generate.
Something that was very well known with Vega.
The cooler needs to cool multiple very hot chips under 1 hood.

[jade scaffold]

you wouldnt be able to cram 16 cores into a AM5 socket that was chiplet design

not full fat zen 4 cores

zen 4c yes

[mossy gull]

Like I said, laptop cores 😃

[jade scaffold]

C arent laptop cores

they are for density primarilly

meant to be used in cloud aplications
just so happens that being turbo compacted makes them pull less power
though it guts their clock speeds by over 40%

less L2 cache too but being so much slower that actually doesnt end up mattering too much

[mossy gull]

I think laptops should have the option to disable Turbo, just like on Desktops

I think Turboless CPUs need to exist again, Turbo is meh, it's a few percentage extra performance for quadruple the power usage.

[jade scaffold]

thats not how turbo works

but sure

all turbo is is an aimed for clock speed under high stress

PBO is what you are refering to and laptops almost never have it anyway

and you usually can turn it off in the laptops bios if they do have it

[mossy gull]

Turbo rarely can be disabled in laptops.
I see more often where hyperthreads can be disabled, but not turbo.
In my laptop disabling turbo increased its performance by like 50% because then it doesn't thermal throttle.

[jade scaffold]

thats because your laptop is a glitchy pile of garbo

Do you need more clock speed then Turbo till hit max turbo speed
Do you want maximum performance enable PBO it'll boost till it hits thermal limits or stability limits
2 entierly seperate systems

[mossy gull]

No, it's because Asus decides to freaking over-volt and move the power limit from 90w to 120w.
Unlike Lenovo that under-volted.

[jade scaffold]

thats an even more seperate thing

that has nothing todo with turbo or PBO

thats Asus failing to configure a board which they do consistantly and constantly all the time

also if you do get a 7000 serise TR Make sure you arent getting an early revision board. AMD Fucked up on making the chipset making all boards of the first revision in actual practicallity completely unuseable

go AMD

[mossy gull]

I still think laptop users should be able to disable Turbo if they want to.
I never ever see an option to disable it.
Only to overclock, many manufacturers also disable under-volting.

[mossy gull]

I am not planning getting an early revision board

[jade scaffold]

yea be carefull its hard to tell online

alot of sellers sell the new revision and old revision boards under the same listing so its a toss up as to what you get

i dont know how they managed to goof up the chipset so bad tbh i dont know why they even needed the chipset they use the same IO Die as epyc siena which can do everything a desktop chipset can internally pretty much

[mossy gull]

I usually send a mail to Asus and they don't mind to test it for me

[balmy flicker]

I was wondering what recharable batteries you would recomend to replace a stack of 3 AA's in an LED flash light

[mossy gull]

Duracel rechargeable batteries.
Preferably their Ni-Mh or Li-Ion batteries.

Their capacity and quality is much higher than their competitors

[cinder lagoon]

...I'm sure this is fine 🤔

[balmy flicker]

thanks

[tender plank]

So, I hadn't noticed until just now, but this cursor is so cursed. I just realized how wrong it felt looking at it.

[jade scaffold]

oh god eww

[jade scaffold]

entierly functional

[cinder lagoon]

gaht dammit I'm not getting a video signal out of my GPU...

[sacred seal]

New build?

[cinder lagoon]

nope

[sacred seal]

Just up and died then?

[cinder lagoon]

installed the noctua cooler I ordered two days ago and it ran fine

now I'm sitting in front of a black screen (its not the drivers, I just DDU'd them, no POST screen either)

HUH IT JUST CAME BACK!?

[sacred seal]

Sounds about right

At this point its my instinct to just ask whenever I have a tech problem because most times it just fixes itself as soon as I do

Still would reseat the GPU just in case its a loose connection

[cinder lagoon]

already had tried replugging DP cables and now I was typing on my laptop as it just came back

device manager events say "Problem while starting PCI device" with multiple drivers (BasicDisplay, amdwddmg, amduw23)... that can't be good 🤔

[sacred seal]

How long has it been borked for?

[cinder lagoon]

idk I pressed the start button and went away for like an hour

aka since today

[sacred seal]

Could just be a one off then

[cinder lagoon]

defo no loose connection, just wiggled every connection in the chain while running and no display outage

[cinder lagoon]

hope so, will absolutely be keeping an eye on that tho

[sacred seal]

Given you installed a cooler I would be most concerned about the PCIE connection.

[cinder lagoon]

yea - I took the CPU out of the socket for cleaning the old goop off, first step would be a reseat then ig

[sacred seal]

Ah, yea CPU with funky contacts could cause all sorts of fun

[opaque anchor]

so I am trying to extract some pictures from a 7zip file and running into an interesting problem... the file name is 225 characters long for some god forsaken reason and when I try to extract it using winrar, it can't do it cause its using a temp location which makes it too long. how the hell can I bypass this

[opaque anchor]

used 7zip and its good now. that is such a dumb situation though lol

[cinder lagoon]

step one: purge winrar
step two: use 7zip
step three (optional): enable long file names on your system

[jade scaffold]

https://youtu.be/au5KcmMBWpI?si=mLA9snTtDqX6GEG6

Actually a proper look into the pocket S I showed the other day yuzu is a tad buggy on it but I'm sure that'll be fixed with time performance certainly looks good enough to run switch games though which is nice would love a teardown of it can see then how big the battery is and make predictions in how long it might last when gaming

[mossy gull]

I hate most handhelds don't have OLED displays

[jade scaffold]

Yea it's sad

Oooo I had a fun idea too

Maybe I could replace by quest pro screens with OLED ones that is if there's any off the shelf OLED screens the right size that are high refresh rate and bright enough

https://ifan-display.com/product/1-03-inch-micro-oled-2560x2560/

Ayo these things are kinda insane 2560x2560 with lenses that small not sure on refresh rate tho

Maybe will try grab some when I get paid always been interested in making my own rudimentary vr headset

[mossy gull]

I want to build something like a holo display

[jade scaffold]

I just want a headset with really nice screens the quest pro screens are really nice but having even nicer would be cool especially for the new metro vr game comming out

[tender plank]

Frequency
90Hz

[jade scaffold]

Perfectly useable then

[jade scaffold]

Ima starting to realise a custom case might do me some good

[tender plank]

Why? There are so many different cases out there that a custom one is excessive outside of when you want extremely specific aesthetics.

[jade scaffold]

I need my pcie slots clear
I can't have a 4 slot GPU eating all my slots

[mossy gull]

That's why I watercool my GPUs.
I hate they're freaking almost 5 slots for no reason other than wasting space.

[jade scaffold]

yea im not paying +400 for every gpu i ever buy it would actually be cheaper to custom make a case

[mossy gull]

I use AlphaCool's quick disconnects so I can reuse most of it

[jade scaffold]

the last alpha cool block i had was disintergreated by the will of god

[timber barn]

guess this is the hardware equivalent to a truck 😂 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRhUHnsZ1GU

[tender plank]

Get a GPU that isn't gargantuan? Also, unfortunately, you're kind of screwed if you try and use a GPU in any slot but the top x16 slot because the lower ones generally don't actually have 16 lanes available to them. There are some 4080s that aren't massive because they use a better cooler design, they'll probably spread out a bit more in other directions but it means that you're not limiting your other slots. If you mean a vertical GPU mount then that can work too but make sure the case is actually properly built for it with slots to allow the GPU to breathe rather than shoving it up against a sheet of tempered glass like too many cases do.

[jade scaffold]

All my slots are full speed gen 5 slots for starters secondly x8 gen 5 is fast enough for any GPU in existence ATM.

And yea lemme find a cooler that's 1 slot and can cool 450-500w

That's not happening

[cerulean helm]

The Asus pro art I think is the "thinnest" 4080 I can think of and its still 2.5 slots.

[tender plank]

Yeah, my ProArt is pretty decent for heat though.

[mossy gull]

Majority of Threadripper and Epyc motherboards have full X16 lanes on all PCIe slot.
The slots usually have the amount of lanes determined but the slot length.

[jade scaffold]

Slots are usually open slots on epyc boards too

So you can put a 16x card in a slot that's only physically 8x if you really want

But I've got 3 16x slots and like 5 8x slots all at gen 5 speed so I'm good for pcie I just need my GPU not to consume 4 of my slots

And there isn't going to be a sub 3 slot 5090 it's just gonna draw too much power

I'm expecting to see the FE version of the 5090 ship with this abomination attached to it

My 3090 currently sits in the vertical mount slot of my case which is fine it's a 3 slot mount and there's a 2.5cm gap between it and the side glass and the fans in the bottom of my case blow right up into it pretty much so it sits at 65c when doing stuff

[mossy gull]

I want to do something stupid, I want to get a Threadripper system, 2 7900XTX, put the 7900XTX on risers and and build some wacky forest portal style PC.

[jade scaffold]

B100 looking to colossally outpace H100 and H200

H200 isn't even out yet gonna be releasing that in the same year as B100 at that point Nvidia why even bother

[mossy gull]

It's Nvidia, they do anything even for 1% performance improvement.

[jade scaffold]

H200 is substantially faster than H100

It's not 1% more like 50% with 141GB of hbm3e

In the ai tasks it's made for anyway I'm just wondering what's the point when you are gonna release a much faster more expensive GPU later in the same year anyway

[cinder lagoon]

https://youtu.be/MucGkPUMjNo
what yall think about this?

that i7-9700 looks interesting to me (my overclocked 4790k system pulls about 60W during idle)

(my wallet is crying)

[jade scaffold]

hey atleast its not pulling 220W at idle ;-;

though honestly its a pretty nifty little server

its worth looking into the Zen 4C APU for super high efficiency imo undervolt that a bit and you have somthing both functional as a little sata storeage server and that is probably only pulling like 10w idle

[cinder lagoon]

okay well I should specify, my server is a (paused) game server, alongside a little storage and full-time HomeAssistant

[jade scaffold]

the Zen 4 C cores should perform about the same as any 9th gen CPU as they are faster than the Zen 2 line of cpus
though that little ryzen 3 doesnt have many cores only 4 cores one full Zen 4 core then 3 Zen4 C cores though compared to a 4790k it should outperform it

though unsure of how low the power draw of the 8300g is no one is interested in doing proper reviews of it

Save me

im doing nothing rn
ive just got discord steam and a browser open
133w H E L P

Can Nvidia fix their drivers please

[cinder lagoon]

you able to do a cinebench run rq?

wait you have a different CPU u were just thinking of building one with 8400G

[jade scaffold]

yea i was just considering the new APUs

just for tinkering mainly

my actual CPUs a full fat epyc which is why itd Idle power draw is 130W+

[cinder lagoon]

anybody have a relatively recent quad-core system available real quick?

[jade scaffold]

i mean if you wanna do a cinebench run cinebench lets you limit the threads it uses no?

i could just set it to run on 8 threads/4 cores

[cinder lagoon]

It does (if you're using windows anyway, look into bitsum process lasso)

[jade scaffold]

yep it does

just checked

atleast R20 lets me set it to 8 threads

out performed a 7700k by nearly double

[cinder lagoon]

Might not take the multi-core score for full performance as I hit 100°C during the run (damn you, crappy 15€ cooler!!) but it should be pretty close

[jade scaffold]

ah you're running r23 i ran R20 cos it was a little quicker

[cinder lagoon]

Hmmm probably lower power consumption than mine too 🤔
ran at nearly 100W the whole time

[jade scaffold]

my power useage did not change

wait no thats a lie i was looking at the wrong number running by slaming 8 threads i add an aditional 50W of useage ontop of my idle draw

ill download R23

[cinder lagoon]

Again - damn you crappy 15€ cooler thats performing way too well for what it cost!!

[jade scaffold]

xD

[cinder lagoon]

It do be quicker but it probably does not resemble the actual performance since its so old

[jade scaffold]

yea the 7700k is gonna loose even harder in 23 because 23 takes so much longer to run and the epyc stays at boost clock forever

[cinder lagoon]

7700k didn't have the time limits yet tho, did it?

[jade scaffold]

it did

thoes limits didnt leave untill either 8th gen or 9th gen

everything before it had thoes time limits

and turbo turned off when overclocked anyway so an overclocked cpu could bypass them

[cinder lagoon]

Just looked it up - yep, it existed for quite some time (but mine for some reason has it at least disabled)

[jade scaffold]

if its OCed the CPU doesnt have turbo anymore anyway so is in a way bypassing it even if it does have it

[cinder lagoon]

I think I'm running some in-between

I do have speedstep and power-down stuff still enabled iirc but I set 1-4 core usage all to 46x multiplier

So - results?

[jade scaffold]

11475

havent run single core but thats 8 threads

wow the single thread is gonna take a hot second isnt it

[cinder lagoon]

Yeah like 5 mins

[jade scaffold]

you got 4591 on multi core thats a bit over 3rd the speed thats kinda crazy considering how low the clocks on this Epyc are

[cinder lagoon]

I had cinebench results without any background shit in some text file somewhere on my desktop, lemme find that real quick but its gonna be a stomp none the less

[jade scaffold]

yea i was watching YT and stuff while doing this so im not running a particularly perfect bench mark but none the less

[cinder lagoon]

The scheduler will put the cinebench on its own couple cores pretty sure

[jade scaffold]

maybe? only 2 or 3 of my CPU cores according to HW Info are even in an active state atm

[cinder lagoon]

Well I found the file, funny enough its about my 3700X I believe 🤔

4x3,4GHz      1001 Cinebench Punkte
4x4,0GHz      1404 Cinebench Punkte 75°C Max
4x4,0GHz +XMP ____ Cinebench Punkte

No wait that doesnt make sense, thats probably a i5-4400 or somethin

[jade scaffold]

having 1 core going full speed has not made a difference to my power useage odd

[cinder lagoon]

Does epyc handle clock speeds per CCD maybe?

[jade scaffold]

also this CPU core isnt running full speed its only at a 42.25x multiplyer
it should be at 44x hmmmmmmmm

clock speeds are per core

single core score was 1528 though i wasnt seeing full speed on the core which is unusual

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[cinder lagoon]

Yay - I'm at least close in single core (which leads me to believe that my system is still totally fine as a game server)

belieeevveee

[jade scaffold]

well "close" 66% of an uncooperative epyc core

[cinder lagoon]

I mean not bad for its age, right?

[jade scaffold]

no not terrible

just realised single thread wouldnt be including the 2 hyper threads of a core

that would explain why the core itself wasnt hitting full speed

:I HW Info pls i beg

im assuming any core thats showing as at 44x is a powered off core

[cinder lagoon]

TWO hyper threads???

[jade scaffold]

cores have 2 threads

typically

[cinder lagoon]

Yes, ryzen leaves unpowered cores at a pretty high frequency

Thats the result from the 5800X3D with a proper cooler

[jade scaffold]

hey it is faster in just raw clock and IPC performance than the 5800x 3D good

i honestly had no idea if it was

[cinder lagoon]

Well saying it has two hyper threads is a little misleading imo - its rather a normal thread + 1 "hyper" thread (which does computing during more or less off-time

[jade scaffold]

i know in multi core in R20 it beats a 5950x thats conventionally cooled

well the Threads dont actually do any computing

they just Vomit more data into the CPU

which lets a Core do 2 seperate things at once
Mind you even with only 1 thread per core if the CPU is executing a super super small group of tasks it can do multiple in one clock

[cinder lagoon]

Afaik HT and SMT work by utilizing unused areas of a core by keeping another thread queue (stack)

[jade scaffold]

pretty much
Basically a core has Execution units
some times 1 thread cant fill all these execution units
sollution add a second thread

Wanna fill bucket faster add a second hose

[cinder lagoon]

Yea it sometimes can actually do two things at once but only that main stack has priority over the units and the second stack is only allowed to interrupt the main one like X% of the time (just so it doesn't get stuck waiting for some result if the main one is utilizing a particular unit fully)

[jade scaffold]

yea

[cinder lagoon]

So its not entirely a second core, just more efficient, right?

[jade scaffold]

at its most basic its just a data lane

[cinder lagoon]

I think I can get single core higher actually, when I tested it I just chose 1C-4C x46 for stability.
System seemed stable with something something x48 on single and dual core iirc

[jade scaffold]

each thread can only deliver 1 thing at a time
so if you have 2 threads you have 2 things going into the CPU at once this means between clocks before the CPU actually executes anything while its fetching data you can put 2 entierly different programs in at once and then the CPU will compute all that thus acting like 2 cores doing 2 different things at the same time

thats why when you have a cpu with hyper threading it shows up as having double the cores it actually has because from the OSs persepctive there are double the data lanes to feed data into

[cinder lagoon]

Hmmm does anybody know where to access the cinebench databank?
I hate how the client always displays seemingly random CPU choices and how I don't know if those values are averages of many user runs or what

[jade scaffold]

the HWBot website shows them

[cinder lagoon]

Ahhh that actually makes quite alot of sense, never thought of it like that until that conversation

[jade scaffold]

though thats mostly overclocked thigns

just checked HW bot the top result is a threadripper at 6.25ghz

thats scary

[cinder lagoon]

Thats gotta be like at 0.1K xD

[jade scaffold]

https://www.cgdirector.com/cinebench-r23-scores-updated-results/

this one seems pretty good

[cinder lagoon]

Hate how Userbenchmark data is so skewed, they actually had the best service for comparing EVERYTHING now its just garbage data

[jade scaffold]

yep

only 400 points behind ryzen 7000 Threadripper in single core performance which aint bad

especially considering cinebench doesnt take advantage of having lots of cache

i got cache for days

[cinder lagoon]

Ohh it doesn't?

[jade scaffold]

i dont belive so

[cinder lagoon]

I got cache for minutes ^^

[jade scaffold]

xD

how much cache does your cpu have it cant be more than like 8 mb right?

oh wow my CPUs on par with a 5950x in single core near enough
Monumentally faster in multi core

[cinder lagoon]

L1 Cache
512KB
L2 Cache
4MB
L3 Cache
96MB

[cinder lagoon]

Well, obviously, you got like triple the amount xD

[jade scaffold]

i dont actually

only 16 cores

ive got 8 CCDs with 2 cores each

Epyc can Share cache between CCDs unlike Ryzen so i have 256MB Of Unified L3 cache

[cinder lagoon]

THERE'S OCTA SOCKET FOR HASWELL CONSUMER??

[jade scaffold]

there is?

[cinder lagoon]

Huh world record for this baby is 1404 single and 6822 multi apparently

[cinder lagoon]

Apparently? There's some records listed on HWbot...

[jade scaffold]

interesting

i knew there was some intel 8 socket things for xeon

its sad AMD dont have quad or Octo Socket epycs

could have had 768 Zen 4 cores 1536 threads in 1 PC or 1025 Zen 4C cores and 2048 Threads but no gotta lock us to only 2 sockets :(

[cinder lagoon]

Its probably not possible without architecture changes by how many cores these things are able to have

[jade scaffold]

tbf intels old platforms had like nothing linking the 2 CPUs

[cinder lagoon]

Like the address registers would be probably too short xD

[jade scaffold]

they could not share ram

[cinder lagoon]

Thats true but they somehow where able to have tasks dispatched to either of them

And like share the results at least

[jade scaffold]

yea they would share the OS but they couldnt both work on the same task if you will atleast not without a huge latency penalty that would make sharing a task between the 2 pointless anyway

tbf you can link multiple CPUs in a cluster these days and have them share the same Memory space All Praise CXL

[cinder lagoon]

Haha true

[mossy gull]

https://www.pcworld.com/article/2238972/intel-accused-of-inflating-cpu-benchmark-results.html

[cinder lagoon]

"compiler that artificially inflated the results" - tf does that mean??
Does it compile source code to binaries?
Does it work?
Did you communicate what that compiler is?

[cinder lagoon]

Hmmm... now I'm baffled.

I just reinstalled the browser because of this and made sure to delete everything of the old one beforehand and I'm still getting this weird glitch. Its everywhere, even in chrome's settings menus and developer tools
edge (dev) does not have this issue 🤔

[jade scaffold]

was it like compileing a web browser type thing?
where they used a compiler that works better on their Processors, thats literally just called optimising your work flow?

[cinder lagoon]

Okay, we really need to teach data speeds/sizes in school.
This is the latest Logitech G hub installer, the download speed is around 500kbps
seeing MB/s confused with Mb/s or Mbps is frustrating, but understandable.
This is just disappointing.

[sonic meadow]

It possibly compiled in a way that sacrificed correctness for speed. There are all kinds of slowdowns in software to ensure that things happen in the correct order, so that you get a consistent result. If you remove or play around with those guarantees however you can get a task completed quicker, it may end up being wrong however

[cinder lagoon]

I appreciate not wasting system ressources.
What I do not appreciate is saving at the wrong places.
Ye can't just hardcode that text to say MB if that number might change during progress

Ohh you meant my previous message nvm

[sonic meadow]

A very simple change that the compiler could make to make things faster would be to use singles (floats) or halfs instead of doubles. It doesn't violate any ordering, but it does reduce the precision of any floating point maths, while not coming to the "wrong" answer in the majority of cases

[jade scaffold]

lord you are fucking tempting me rn 90 quid for a p100... w h a t if i can dig up a 4 way link board for reasonably cheap 64gb AI rig for not all that much honestly

i might buy one as like a display piece

[cinder lagoon]

Given that SLI is now only used in workstation/servers the 4-ways are gonna be really expensive

[sonic meadow]

SLI was never used in workstation/server applications, they just used multiple cards independently

[jade scaffold]

These gpus are only for servers

[jade scaffold]

That's wrong

SXM uses a high bandwidth version of NVlink to allow all gpus in the array to function as one big GPU

Technically right on sli never being used because sli stopped existing at all after pascal and was replaced by NVlink

[sonic meadow]

SLI was an almost exclusively gaming/real time rendering technology, NVLink expands on the underlying tech, letting it actually be useful for other applications

[jade scaffold]

No?

SLI was originally the name of the protocol Tesla k80s used sli

NVlink was a newer better protocol that allowed for much higher bandwidths to be acheived and thus shared memory

It was used by the GP100 and GV100 which were quadros but they used a lower bandwidth version than the SXM cards did

And you can still run graphics on Nvidia Tesla GPUs ya not supposed to but you can

[mossy gull]

SLI, now called NV-Link actually 1st started on servers.

[jade scaffold]

been looking into the teslas and making them work for rendering for the fun of it
and Im seeing people use the P4 as a budget gaming GPU and it turns our its actually kinda insanely fast for a card as old as it is and for a card thats one and only actual purpose is video encoding
like its beating the RX 6400 by like 15-20% in games like lowkey performing just under a 1650 which is kinda crazy

like its got a fair bit of driver overhead meaning using an older CPU can actually drag it down below the rx6400 even in games where cpu utillisation isnt high

but with a modern cpu for example a ryzen 5 from 7000 or 8000 its actually a totally valid option if you can find them cheap

[cinder lagoon]

Uggghh my display output problem is back

Now it mysteriously started working again

[jade scaffold]

PCs haunted

[cinder lagoon]

Ahh crap my PC caught an anti christ

[mossy gull]

I absolutely hate when people dunk on AMD for having "bad cards" and that Nvidia apparently never does anything wrong.
Yet the problem lays by the user themselves 9/10 times.

[cinder lagoon]

?

[jade scaffold]

i wouldnt say 9/10 times but yea People rag on AMD for bad drivers when they aren't that bad anymore
But their drivers are still bad especially on anything older than 6000 where they dont maintain them properly the 5700xt is still janky the vegas are relativly stable now mind you even 6000 isnt perfect because AMD Refused to update the drivers for 6 months and have yet to actually impliment some game specific stuff that they should have implimented

[mossy gull]

And Nvidia is being forgiven way too easily.

[cinder lagoon]

I absolutely don't think they have bad drivers. Been on an RX480 since it launched and had minimal problems that didn't stem from me fucking something up specifically. Granted, they lacked optimization, especially in OpenGL apps

[jade scaffold]

Nvidias drivers aren't consistently shagged tho

[jade scaffold]

the 480 is like 10 years old

its still just a modified 380 and the 580 is just a modified 480

they probably use identical drivers near enough

[cinder lagoon]

Exactly ( i've had a 6800 for about a year now)

[mossy gull]

I have a laptop with an Nvidia GPU, I had 2 actually.
Both have problems with both my monitors on HDMI

[jade scaffold]

6000 is relativly stable but theres still a bunch of performance optimisations for certain games AMD has yet to impliment because they didnt update 6000s drivers for 6 months because they had to put so much work into making sure 7000 drivers weren't shagged

NVidia get forgiven because its rare NVidias drivers cause utter catastrophic fuckery on the level AMDs do and when NVidias Drivers do fuck up if you post on their fourms with good data it'll be fixed by the end of the week

[jade scaffold]

thats laptop HDMIs being Laptop HDMIs
every laptop ive had has hated driving displays regardless of whos gpu it has in it

weirly enough i think intels IGPUs have caused me the least issues as far as laptop display outputs go

[mossy gull]

Was also the same effect with an 3070 that we gave away to someone who didnt have much where the GPU died

[jade scaffold]

also the 5700XT is still shagged
its useable now unlike it was at launch but its still very much a glitchy mess

[sonic meadow]

laptops tend to be screwy when it comes to discrete graphics, as they use a way of internal switching to allow to gpus to run over the same set of outputs

[mossy gull]

Maybe it was the iGPU, all I know is they have problems

[surreal moss]

It’s almost like constantly changing the use of display outputs can introduce unknown variables

[mossy gull]

I only use the DP for my main system and HDMI for the rest

[jade scaffold]

DP literally does not work properly on my monitor because DP1.4 is crap

[mossy gull]

I wish 2.0 was already on monitors, but even 1500 costing monitors dont have it

[jade scaffold]

because 2.0 was also crap
2.1 is the actual good version of 2.0

HDMI 2.1 can do 10bpc 240hz at nearly 4k resolutions somthing DP1.4 just cant do so i dont get why its even inlcuded on this monitor

[mossy gull]

Tell that to people who say you won't see a difference because 1.4 has DSC to have same performance as HDMI

[jade scaffold]

you do know that HDMI has DSC right

[mossy gull]

I know

[jade scaffold]

even with DSC display port 1.4 cant drive my monitor

i have to down my colour to 8bpc for it to drive at 240hz

[mossy gull]

I have DSC turned off on my display, and I can only do 3440x1440 10bit on 100hz

[jade scaffold]

why do you have DSC turned off

[cinder lagoon]

i should really finally invest in a Monitor that doesn't suck...

[mossy gull]

Because its possible😃

[jade scaffold]

DSC is a lossless compression

theres no artifacting or anything just extra monitor performance

[mossy gull]

I know, but I do colour accurate work, so I rather have as much accurate colours as possible on this stupid 45GR

[jade scaffold]

you will still get the same colour accuracy

[mossy gull]

It's just the feeling okay

[jade scaffold]

its lossless
there is no loss in any quality