Tech Lab forum - General Discussions!

[deft star]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_k1mjDeVEo

[olive fiber]

Went and got the wireless version of the M65.. it's so nice. It feels a little bit better than the older wired one in most every way.

The Corsair M65 with the precision aim mode thing. The wheel is smoother, buttons feel nicer, everything

Even the finger and thumb rests feel like rubber, but they're absolutely not. Which is nice, because usually the rubber degrades on the logitech ones

I don't know why, but I just like touching it.

[timber barn]

Steamdeck is awesome, zero regrets

[jade scaffold]

the steam deck is cool but for me it lacks performance imo

its insanely slow compared to its competition as well as being less efficient

the build quality is aparently great and the track pads look really helpful for using the deck
but i cant get over it being so wimpy in terms of performance and efficiency

[cinder lagoon]

I think you don't know how proprietary that thing is... With the stupid Laptop GPU dock for like 75% more than it should cost at max

[mossy gull]

The problem lays with Nvidia partially, laptop GPUs are more expensive, and Nvidia doesn't like if a laptop GPU is being combined with a desktop GPU

[jade scaffold]

its not tho?

they could have just used Thunderbolt 3/4 or USB 4

theres actually no valid reason for a proprietary E-GPU Connector

[cinder lagoon]

Neither for offering a single bad deal eGPU

[jade scaffold]

yea thats dumb

EGPU enclosures are dumb

why do they cost £300+

theres no actual good reason for that
They have next to no onboard logic, the most complex thing they might contain is a PSU and honestly a 400w PSU isnt gonna cost alot for a company to shove in a metal enclosure

[mossy gull]

The connector on Asus systems is PCIe 4.0 x8, instead of the x4 that Thunderbolt is

[jade scaffold]

and?

the 30w CPU in thoes things cant keep up with anything that can make use of a gen 4 x 8 lane

[mossy gull]

The Asus offers the 4090 Laptop on their highest

[jade scaffold]

yea thats stupid

and would also still function off a 4x lane without much of any bottleknecking

[mossy gull]

The 4090 Laptop is a 4080

[jade scaffold]

yes a poorly binned low clocked 4080

[mossy gull]

4080 does benefit with the 4.0 x8 over the x4

[jade scaffold]

and?

guess what doesnt

a 30w APU

you COULD make the argument if mobile devices big enough to cool a CPU powerful enough to keep up with some bootleg 4070ti didnt already have a laptop 4080/4090 in them already

[mossy gull]

I personally like the GPU port idea, I use to have an Alienware 13 OLED and the GPU port actually had less latency and tad higher fps than Thunderbolt options.

[jade scaffold]

i dont

its blatantly a trash idea made to sell extra garbage

you want an upgradable GPU for your laptop
Slot in GPUs should be how you do it not some crappy proprietary dock

[mossy gull]

On Alienware it was a normal GPU dock, you could put in a Desktop card.
Not like Asus

[jade scaffold]

thats still dumb, because the docks cost a unreasonable ammount

[mossy gull]

Funny enough it was half the price of Razer's alternative

[jade scaffold]

and most desktop GPUs are so massivly faster than the CPU in a Laptop the laptops cant catch up anyway leaving you in the fun grey zone of potato performance with tripple the cost

[jade scaffold]

yea and i can throw somthing together in half an hour a 5th the cost of razers crap

and with better performance probably too

they should just use one of the many Hotswapable PCIE Standards that are arround

there are several that are already built to handle future generations of PCIE so the connectors will be arround a while

that way you can just get a gen 5x4 slot out of your device into literally anything you want

[mossy gull]

Back in the day Alienware had the fastest solution, it was as fast as connecting a GPU to an NVMe port.

[mossy gull]

Sadly they never use that unless it's some insanely expensive business laptop

[jade scaffold]

yea because it wasnt having to go through a USB C cable of questionable Quality

[jade scaffold]

yea thats stupid

[mossy gull]

The thing with USB-C/Thunderbolt is the added latency.
That's why I prefer a dedicated port specially for GPUs

[jade scaffold]

the added latency is soley down to the quality of the wire you use

PCIE Traces have to have identical lengths

somthing which USB Cable manufacturers dont tend to take into account to the same extent PCIE Riser or Motherboard manufactuers do

[mossy gull]

Not only the cable, but also the controller between the GPU and the board causes added latency

[jade scaffold]

which a stupid custom slot will do anyway

like ASUSs one

the only way you get arround that is direct PCIE to PCIE no fuckery

and in which case why are you using a custom one

we've had thoes cheap bastards in the server space for like 10 years

[mossy gull]

Aka Alienware's solution.
It's a direct PCIe lanes except the connector is weird.

[jade scaffold]

saying "oh we want the full performance" is no reason a connector to be proprietary

other than to make yourself more money

which is dumb

[mossy gull]

I always been a fan of external GPUs.
I went from the Fujitsu SA3650 to Alienware 13 OLED.
Sadly after that they stopped.

[jade scaffold]

if you're gonna make an external GPU for your Laptop
USE A SERVER CONNECTOR

not only will it be more reliable it'll be more accessible

But no company will do that because they are all scum

[mossy gull]

But then companies can't make proprietary cables and docking stations😃

[jade scaffold]

or just have PCIE Release a standard External PCIE connector

[mossy gull]

AMD wanted to in the past, but nobody cared

[jade scaffold]

yea because external GPUs are fuckin dumb

and become increasingly more dumb every year that goes by

[mossy gull]

I don't mind them though.
Powerful gaming system at home, efficient system on the go.

[jade scaffold]

or with the rapidly increasing speed of celular networks you can just take a thin and light with 12 hours of battery with you and just ya know remote into a desktop

then you have all that power on the go

where ever you are with a laptop you could throw like a frisbee

you cant even make the latency argument anymore

[mossy gull]

Not everyone has unlimited phone connection or fast enough connections.
I for example when travelling by train it's 70% underground.

[jade scaffold]

yea and you dont need to game while traveling an no laptop in the world can game for more than an hour and a half at any reasonable resolution before burning you or running out of power

and if you can afford a laptop with a powerful enough CPU to use with an E GPU you can afford a celular plan with unlimited data? like cell plans are cheap af these days

[mossy gull]

But I have a GPU at home and 1 at work, on the go I can do light work and never change my laptop

[jade scaffold]

wild inefficiency

its not even like modern thin and lights dont have ballin APUs in them good enough for work

[mossy gull]

Better than putting it on an external drive constantly to take my work home

[jade scaffold]

im still running my good old Lenovo Yogabook

its got some crappy quad core attom in it

[mossy gull]

I am running an Asus Zenbook with 2 displays for work, it doesn't have a dedicated GPU

[jade scaffold]

would love a refresh of my yoga book with one of intels new N serise CPUs in it or maybe Zen4 C cores from AMD

a nicer screen too would be great

but modern thin and lights arent even that thinn half the time

atleast lenovo are still at it making funky laptops

maybe they'll make another equivilent to this laptop

the Yoga Book 9i is cool and all but its too high performance for my wants i just want it to bearly sip power so i can just remote into my desktop

[mossy gull]

I don't want an Intel CPU because they're inefficient.
My work laptop has an i7-12700h I think it is and it has less battery than my ROG G15 Advantage Edition

[jade scaffold]

I like Intel's all efficiency core chips

They are crazy efficient

Amds zen4c ones too

The thinness of this thing is crazy

I want more like it

[mossy gull]

I still feel like the 5900HX is more efficient than the 12700H.

[jade scaffold]

It probably is

But Intel's e cores alone are crazy

The reason their current chips suffer bad efficiency even with them is because the p cores have to pass stuff to the e cores when it should be the other way round

[mossy gull]

The lack of hyperthreads actually makes it feel slow for me

[jade scaffold]

words of someone who knows nothing of how sceduling works

threads dont magically make a CPU faster

in some cases they can do the opposite

ands Zen 4 c cores are only marginally faster than intels E cores

and they have hyperthreading

the efficiency of both is about the same

[mossy gull]

I use Ubuntu for work, maybe their scheduling is odd if it comes to hyperthreading and no hyperthreads

[jade scaffold]

infact intels E cores pull slightly less idle power

[jade scaffold]

nothing is wrong with their sceduling

you've just somehow managed to convince yourself of somthing that isnt there

whats that effect called

it has a name and its esacping me

Placebo effect

[mossy gull]

I doubt it's that, it feels generally slower, I usually disable the e-cores because I don't see the benefits at all

[jade scaffold]

i dont doubt it

the Reason AMDs Zen4 C cores have hyperthreading is because they dont actually have less execution units

intels E cores do have less

[mossy gull]

I think I am spoiled how efficient AMD's "p"-cores already are.

[jade scaffold]

the performance of Zen4 C is about equivalent per core to Epyc Rome which is Zen 2

intels E cores are equivilent to the high end 6th gen chips

[mossy gull]

My 5900HX is what?
Zen2? Or Zen3?

[jade scaffold]

Zen 3

unless its the wird one that despite having a 5000 names sake is a 3000 chip

[mossy gull]

It was a of AMD's top of the line laptop chips

[jade scaffold]

yea but AMD are about as good at naming stuff as intel

some form of 5800 mobile chip is actually a ryzen 3000 chip

just with a 5000 name which is a touch scummy

[mossy gull]

It's pretty efficient even when doing CPU intensive tasks on battery.

[jade scaffold]

i mean so is paper launching your Pro line of chips

but hey ho

Paper launches are the hot thing since NVidia did it 3 generations in a row

[mossy gull]

Wait, since when?
Been with AMD since the RX6000 came onto the market

[jade scaffold]

the Threadripper chips

the low end of the Threadripper pro line up isnt actually real LMAO

the few chips of it that do exsist are locked to Dell/Lenovo's Wank proprietary mobos

[mossy gull]

I find it weird because Lenovo's consumer line isn't locked down

[jade scaffold]

yes the fuck they are

lenovo have consistantly locked consumer Ryzen CPUs to their motherboards

not all of them

but they do it pretty ofen under the Guise of security

[mossy gull]

I recently pulled an 7700X out of a Lenovo system, replaced it with the 7800X3D, and the 7700X worked on another board from Asus

[jade scaffold]

yea they dont do it on all of them

but any system marketed as a professional system they do it on

so the CPUs only work with their motherboards

[mossy gull]

I don't call professional systems consumer, I call them pro-sumer

[jade scaffold]

the idea is if you rob one it wont work in your own motherboard
but this does very little to prevent people just selling them on Ebay

[mossy gull]

I usually sell them between some friends of friends.
People here tend to be "cheap" so to say.
So I usually sell a CPU+MB+RAM for 100. - more expensive than the motherboard.
RAM is usually my older RAM.

[jade scaffold]

but yea AMD screwed me by paper launching the low end TR Pros

so im in a kinda funky spot atm

[mossy gull]

I am going for the non-pro line-up

[jade scaffold]

yea all the none pro ones are there

anything with 24 cores and up is there

[mossy gull]

The 24-core is what I wanted for a while.

[jade scaffold]

but my only option is a 2.65k CPU
and why the hell would i go for a 2.65k TR Pro over a 16 core Epyc with 3D Vcache on all cores

that will cost less than that overall

because second hand SP5 Mobos are cheap AF compared to WRX90 boards

regardless 2.55k for a EPYC 9184X is still too much for me

ill wait for prices to drop

[mossy gull]

All I need is a board with PCIe Bifurcation and PCIe 4 x16 on all full size slots

[jade scaffold]

good luck with that?

theres a board with a gen 5 x16 slot 2 gen 4x16 slots and a gen 4x8 slot

but thats the best you're getting out of HEDT TR

theres only like 3 Boards for TR atm

[mossy gull]

Previous Asus ProArt Threadripper board had 3 PCIe 4.0 X16 slots I believe

[jade scaffold]

because the previous one was a Pro platform

we havent had none pro TRs since ryzen 3000

[mossy gull]

Nevermind, it was an Asus Pro sWRX8 board

But then, why not have full X16 slots when the non-pro TR also has past 64 PCIe 4 lanes

[jade scaffold]

the new TR non pros only have 44 Gen 5 lanes

88 Lanes in total

but on alot of boars 8 lanes are dedicated to networking 8 more to IO
8 more to Mini sas/other PCIE Connectors

[mossy gull]

They have 48 PCIe 5.0 max actually

[jade scaffold]

no they dont

[jade scaffold]

4 lanes are locked to the chipset as such im not counting them

actually its 8 lanes locked to the chipset

so you only have 40 gen 5 lanes maximum

[mossy gull]

As long I can run 2 GPUs without bottleneck I am happy.

[jade scaffold]

you could run 2 GPUs without bottlekneck on a x8 gen 4 lane

only the 4090 is gonna push a x8 slot

and even the 4090 is only held back by like 2% on a x8 gen 4 lane

[mossy gull]

1 4060Ti 16GB and 1 7900XTX.
With at least 4 SSDs that are all 980 Pro at least.

[jade scaffold]

ew samsung SSDs

please for the love of god pick a brand that A makes long lasting SSDs and B doesnt kill its workers

[mossy gull]

Funny enough I have 1 Corsair SSD
But that's because I could get a 4TB for like 150.-

[jade scaffold]

the Corsair SSD is literally 4x as long lasting as a samsung SSD

its crazy that samsung get away with charging so much for such trash

like yea they are fast

but they have terribly high latency

[mossy gull]

It is 4 980 Pro 2TB, I chose them because my 970 Pro lasted a long time for me, and to this day are still alive but are only 1TB each.

[mossy gull]

They're actually the cheaper ones here, WD is like 40% more expensive here

[jade scaffold]

WD are wank

they make good hardrives and sata drives generally

but their NVME Stuff is a joke

[mossy gull]

I don't trust WD, I use to have 3 HDDs from them that have died all in less than 2 years.

That was like 10 years ago

[jade scaffold]

i want to get an optane drive for my boot drive at some point

[mossy gull]

Do they still exist?

[jade scaffold]

yea

primarilly only for their server devision though

and its not called optane anymore

but its the same tech

genuinly how is intel the only brand thats building SSDs to be optimal rather than for marketing numbers that have nearly no real world effect

Intel of all companies

[mossy gull]

To be fair, I am debating if I should go full Corsair with my next build.
Their SSDs are fast enough for me and have high storage

And they get detected by iCue, which I like to use

[jade scaffold]

they also have 4x the maximum writes till failure

[mossy gull]

Wait, they're more durable?

Not 1 SSD has survived longer than my old 96GB Kingston SSD

[jade scaffold]

corsair ones than Samsung ones yea

massivly

samsung have the worst write endurance on NVME SSDs out of any brand by a long shot

[mossy gull]

How, they're the most popular

[jade scaffold]

yea

exactly

[mossy gull]

[mossy gull]

They're even pre build into tons and tons of systems

[jade scaffold]

yea

like they have really fast write speeds

but abysmal access latency and their write endurance falls behind their competition quite significantly

this is why i love Used Server SSDs though

they have unbelievably high write endurance

[mossy gull]

I don't want to go for 2nd hand storage
I feel like they can fail any second

[jade scaffold]

thats why you get used server drives

they list how much endurance they have left

usually well over 3x what a samsung drive has
as well as having al the fun data saving features that acompany such drives

[mossy gull]

I still dont feel safe though😅

My company uses SSDs for caching, so they get abused a lot

[jade scaffold]

yea intel server drives have about 10x the write endurance that a 990 pro has

[mossy gull]

Luckily I dont have the 990 Pro, one the 970 and 980 Pro

[jade scaffold]

they arent any better

the only difference is they are slower

[mossy gull]

Basically, lets go to Corsair

[cinder lagoon]

server drives are really safe but often use another connector.
In this economy buying used storage is not a good deal tho

[jade scaffold]

yea they usually come in 2.5" form factors that use a hotswapable NVME connector

Looking at monitors and debating between 21:9 or a 32:9

at the same time however
this might be too much monitor for my desk

like that top screen is a 34" 21:9 ultrawide
i did not think a 32:9 would be so much more huge

[cinder lagoon]

21 is enough for me, the direct comparison on top of another is great

32 would be good for sim racing games but honestly at that point just do VR lol

[mossy gull]

What about 45" 21:9

I say 21:9, much higher compatibility

[mossy gull]

And too often I am working with cramped spaces.

[jade scaffold]

Nah if I'm getting another ultrawide I'm getting a second monitor to go with

[mossy gull]

Or, have 2 45" in a stacked orientation

[jade scaffold]

Can't do that

My desk is too thick for monitor stands

[mossy gull]

There's monitor stands that stand on your desk

[jade scaffold]

Not ones that are safe to hold 2 45binvh ultra wide's there's not

[mossy gull]

I still would do it

But then I use a mount for 6 normal monitors so I have extra mounts for speakers

[jade scaffold]

someone just gave me 33% off a G9 QD Oled

YOINK

i hope it fuckin fits

if not i can send it back its got a 2 month free return

[mossy gull]

I am awfully suspicious with QD-OLED currently, I want near perfect pixel dimming, something 1st gen QD-OLED was very bad at.

[jade scaffold]

this is a 2nd gen pannel

and it can do it perfectly aparently

0.03ms pixel response time

[mossy gull]

This is normal for nearly all OLED panels.
It's just the nature of organic materials, Plasma had the same thing.

[mossy gull]

I hope, I really hope

[jade scaffold]

yee its a decent upgrade for me

ill let you know

i currently have a VA Pannel

which VA can do really good contrast for an LCD panel type

my poor gpu might suffer though Im going for 3440x1440 to 5120x1440

wonder if i can do virtual screens

would be pretty nice to have a roughly 4:3 display for displaying discord then a 21:9 display when playing games

[mossy gull]

I had a VA display, now the LG 45GR.
I don't want to go away from OLED anymore

[mossy gull]

I don't know if NVIDIA has it, but AMD can near flawless upscale to higher resolution in games

[jade scaffold]

oh yea you can do that with Nvidia

still Super ultrawide 1440p is basically 4K

its like a million pixles off 4k

[mossy gull]

My old 1060 was incapable of doing it flawlessly.
While my 6700XT can upscale/downscale to native display resolution so monitors don't have to adjust

[cinder lagoon]

https://www.amazon.de/-/en/gp/product/B08XNBN7TT
I'm looking for something like this but less expensive and on ebay - I can't find any equivalents...
the Antenna plug is MHF4 can anybody help?

[olive fiber]

I've been looking at it.. but my reervation mostly comes from .. not really having anything I think I'd play on it.

[timber barn]

Vampire survivors, Brotato, platformers, older console games etc

For AAA I go pc anyway

FEZ… there are tons of games which are really fun on the deck

There is the optimized for deck category which you can browse

[jade scaffold]

It fits

It looks really good

[cinder lagoon]

no ideas about this yall?

[mossy gull]

I don't use 3rd party antennas
I am sorry

[cinder lagoon]

sadge :(

[barren juniper]

any decent external m.2 drive or m.2 to usb? i have a drive i need to get stuff off of from a dead computer and im too lazy to take apart my other computer to put it in

has the login to my eve accounts on it

[sonic meadow]

(I dont have any suggestions, just bringing up important information)
it depends on whether its a sata m.2 or pcie m.2 ssd

they have different keying, and enclosures/adaptors are not guaranteed to work with both

[barren juniper]

its a b+m key

hmm you need 35 or more for free shipping. guess im not getting the cheapest thing possible

[cinder lagoon]

hang on this was my go-to but it uses SCSI internally so no guaranteed compatibility with things like printers or whatever:
https://www.amazon.de/-/en/gp/product/B07NV47F3D

[cinder lagoon]

i.E. nvme

[barren juniper]

yeah i found an asus one that might work

though i first wanna see if i can get the other computer running first as the document i need i believe only has the emails and not the passwords

[cinder lagoon]

its probably like 40 bucks, aint it?

[barren juniper]

yeah, it comes with free shipping, which for me would otherwise cost more than it

[jade scaffold]

While sata does have a different key to the nvme slot nvme can support sata drives

[sonic meadow]

not inherently, no

[jade scaffold]

Though maybe a nvme drive enclosure would be different

Pretty much all pcs slots will do both if it's an nvme keyed slot. But yea the makers of drive enclosures are probably turbo cheap bastards so I wouldn't expect them to support both

[sonic meadow]

NVMe is a post-sata standard, and not compatible with sata devices. some m.2 keyings (the standard physical interface for NVMe drives) support both SATA and NVMe drives. just like some also support USB, and a few other minor buses

whether or not a host device supports both on a keying that supports both is entirely up to the host device

[jade scaffold]

On a pc the PC is already gonna have a sata controller

[sonic meadow]

doesnt mean its connected to the m.2 ports

[jade scaffold]

Any motherboard that is so cheap that it won't wire the nvme slot into the sats controller is a guaranteed fire hazard

Even the first gen 320 boards from first gen ryzen had support for both

And they were piles of shit

[sonic meadow]

random gigabyte z790 board, 5x m.2 ports, only one supports SATA

[jade scaffold]

As I was about to get to

Specialised boards can get away with it

It you are buying a board that has dedicated the entirety of its io lanes to nvme then the chances are you aren't using some sata drive

[sonic meadow]

and a generic gigabyte b650 board, 3x m.2 ports, none supporting sata

[jade scaffold]

Triple m.2 on a bx50?

[sonic meadow]

thats what it says

[jade scaffold]

That does not have the data throughput to support any of that at full speed

Is it gonna run one of thoes m.2s at 2x speed

[sonic meadow]

B650 has 8x 4.0 lanes, and the cpu has another 8 lanes itself

[jade scaffold]

Yea that's not alot

[sonic meadow]

second cheapest MSI b760m board I found, 2x m.2, only one of which supports sata

[jade scaffold]

Yea that's shit

[sonic meadow]

but alot-ness of m.2 ports wasnt the point. the point was about Sata not being ubiquitously available

[jade scaffold]

What have mobo manufacturers done

Yea I guess not anymore

[sonic meadow]

ive not even been cherry picking, these are just the first modern boards ive been looking at

my own board gigabyte x570 does support sata on both ports though.

and this random other b450m board supports sata on its one port. and only sata if you have an athlon apu in it

[jade scaffold]

That's just odd

That means it's using the CPU sata lane

[sonic meadow]

sata m.2 ssds themselves are becoming less common, and thus being de-emphasized in motherboard offerings

[mossy gull]

That's why I always go with the X line-up, even for other people

[sonic meadow]

heck I tried finding one recently and the offerings were basically all shit

I mean, that was a cheap b450 board

[jade scaffold]

My b550 aorus mobo supports sata in both m.2 slots

[sonic meadow]

the athlons had reduced pcie lanes I believe. not sure where the sata was coming from though. probably chipset

a better b450 board, 2x m.2 ports only one of which supports sata

[jade scaffold]

If sata was comming from the chipset on that board that slot would have functional sata on any CPU

[sonic meadow]

no? it still needs to actually be wired in

its not like the traces magically appear

[jade scaffold]

On the atholon board

If the atholon can do sata but a ryzen can't then that sata lane it's using can't be from the chipset

[sonic meadow]

the ryzen could though

it was saying the athlon couldnt do pcie

[jade scaffold]

Your phrasing here was bad

Sorry

[sonic meadow]

regardless, the sata comes entirely from the chipset

[jade scaffold]

Yea it would in that case then

Weird how few mobos support dual sata

For newer boards I get

[sonic meadow]

means they either have less sata ports, or need switches

[jade scaffold]

Sata is a quickly dying standard

[sonic meadow]

which for what these days is such a minor feature is probably considered not worth the cost

[jade scaffold]

So it makes sense to support it less

[sonic meadow]

sata last got a revision 3 years ago (revision 3.5 according to wikipedia). so its not necessarily dying, just relegated to a secondary thing. likely because consumers arent needing the kinds of storage offerings it provides anymore

[jade scaffold]

I would say it's dying
Sata simply offers no advantages over other standards other than being cheap

[sonic meadow]

it doesnt tie up precious pcie lanes

[jade scaffold]

Due to their low efficiency and density even high end server hardrives are being phased out for ssds

[jade scaffold]

If it's through a chipset they do

If I use all the sata ports on my mobo I loose some pcie lanes

[sonic meadow]

been a while since ive seen that. none of the ones I linked above do it

[jade scaffold]

That's one thing mobo manufacturers hide in the depths of their websites

Gigabyte literally will be like you get 6 sata ports with data support in both m.2 slots

But btw if you plug anything into sata 3/4 you loose pcie to the 4x slot

Like it would have been nice for that not to be hidden in what ever advanced specification tab I had to get to to see that

All a chipset does is divy out what ever bandwidth it has usually it's just a big data switch for a 4x pcie slot

[sonic meadow]

not.. quite. (about the the divvying out bandwidth part). as things dont always need to talk to the cpu (or devices available from the cpu like ram) the bandwidth between to the cpu isnt the be-all of its capabilities

[jade scaffold]

Ehhh

Kinda is kinda isn't

[sonic meadow]

plus things arent always talking at the same time

[jade scaffold]

While in theory there's no reason a chipset with a 4x into the CPU can't run 64 lanes worth of gen 3 drives

[sonic meadow]

and thus the PLX chip was born, over a decade ago

[jade scaffold]

If you run them all at once it won't go very fast

Older chipsets were especially bad

B450

Was awfull

You plug too much usb into a b450 board it'll actually just eat shit

Quite literally the only reason I have a b550 mobo today is because b450 can't handle having everything plugged in

It's also why I was so excited about the new trs

The equivalent to 32 gen 3 lanes into the chipset alone

That's an insane amount of bandwidth nomatter what you are very unlikely to overwhelm that

Not to mention the cpus have a large amount of inbuilt Io for usb sata and nvme takes even more load off the chipset

But alas amd fucking paper launched the 12 and 16 core pro cpus so fuck me I guess

Low-key very nearly bought an epyc as alternative but the new ones are still a little expensive ATM but I don't think it'll be long till the drop even more

The one I was looking at is already down from 4.5k to 2.5 k

[olive fiber]

Got my LG48CX OLED up and running again.. but then realized I couldn't mount my flight sticks to that desk.. since they'd get in the way of me getting out of my U shaped desk ;p

Looks nice on my mac, at least.

I could try moving it to the other side of the U.. but that'd be a huge pain

Against a wall, and in a corner, with a bookcase on the side.

[jade scaffold]

What was wrong with it?

Or were you just not running it

[sacred seal]

Finally putting together a server to run AI models on, was wondering if anyone had suggestions for older server models that would work to hold two p40 GPUs so I don't have to spend the next few days looking at every old server on ebay.

[jade scaffold]

do you care about noise?

if no get a 1 u server

with counter rotating fans that has 2-4 slots in they exist they used to use them for data management and ai when it was starting out

some can fit 4 cards crammed in the back

[sacred seal]

I'm going to stick this in my basement so noise is not a issue

I was thinking of doing a r715, but I don't know if it would be powerful enough

I can pick one of those up for like 270cad

[sonic meadow]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725919828795457567/1178881798730682478/FB_IMG_1701137702091.jpg?ex=6577c23b&is=65654d3b&hm=0a927c1de030523d68ff59216e01c6d7b71464167c0d5fa33b9f234a2653d35f&

[jade scaffold]

It'll work but it's kinda lacking expansion

[sacred seal]

If I want to dump more then 600$s on gpus I probably will just invest in a better system.

[jade scaffold]

Maybe something like this?

Lots of CPU upgrade choices
Lots of extra GPU expansion

[sacred seal]

I would love something with more GPUs, but the ones I am finding are starting at around the 600$ mark

Seems like a waste to put that much down for a single p40

[jade scaffold]

Yea I'm just a bit worried about upgrade potential what kinda CPU does the r715 have? There's like 30 models of the thing

[sacred seal]

Old

I actually found a r720 for less

Dual e2620s
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/204532557630?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D777008%26algo%3DPERSONAL.TOPIC%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20230811123856%26meid%3D3c8ae07f2ebb45aabe46784bb4a43393%26pid%3D101770%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26itm%3D204532557630%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D4375194%26algv%3DRecentlyViewedItemsV2&_trksid=p4375194.c101770.m146925&_trkparms=parentrq%3A1507b5b018c0acd845f844abfffd05d2|pageci%3A90b8eacf-8dc7-11ee-8ad0-daa7fe4d0c12|iid%3A1|vlpname%3Avlp_homepage

[jade scaffold]

I'm worried about memory bandwidth on ddr3

[sacred seal]

So like 2500s

I think it should be fine for my application, I'm planning on keeping the entire model on card

[jade scaffold]

Super micro superblade? If you can find a bare bones one if thoes could work

[jade scaffold]

Memory bandwidth is still important for data fetching if your gonna slam 2 p40s

Depends on the number of channels I guess 8 channel ddr3 will probs be fine for 2 gpus

[sacred seal]

The superblades I am finding for under 1k are even older then the 720

I'm basically just going to run SD and Llama based models on this thing. Having a AMD GPU in my main rig limits my options, and getting a comprable card to my 6900xt would put me out a grand

[jade scaffold]

Yea the only one I've found is a bunch of bare bones empty cases for them which are yea cheap but you gotta populate everything and they are in the UK and only single GPU

The dell is probs the best option

Unless you can get an empty server case

And just throw a ryzen server board in it

[sacred seal]

Who says I need a case?

Worst case I can make one out of plywood

[jade scaffold]

Could get a 1u rack case totally empty from eBay for like 40 dollar get a asrock rack server board toss a ryzen 7 of some kind in it and sine ecc memory and you got really quite a competent little server

[sacred seal]

Even a cheap ryzen based system is going to set me back more then I would like. A 5800x would cost more then the server alone (and for some reason that is the cheapest r7 processor avaliable right now)

[jade scaffold]

No second hand ones

[sacred seal]

I'd buy it and put it in my current rig if not for the fact that I have a x370 board

[jade scaffold]

I can get a 2700 for like £60 off eBay

[sacred seal]

Yea, that's like 100$s cad

Which puts into perspective just how insainly cheap the 720 is

[jade scaffold]

Yea

You could try it

But I am worried about memory bandwidth

Can always resell it if it doesn't work out

[sacred seal]

Yea.

[jade scaffold]

Wonder if I can pull enough stuff out of my main pc to fit a 25gb network card then I can have all my storage on a external server and still get decent SSD speed

[sacred seal]

Ironically I already have a spare 64GBs of ddr4, and a 2tb nvme ssd, so I really just need to CPU and mobo. But even on the cheap end thats still way more then an entire server

Heck, just buying a 850 watt PSU is more expensive then the 720 right now

Hopefully they don't have some stupid lock on the system where it wont boot with less then 2 1100 watt PSUs

[jade scaffold]

Dell's old systems are usually devoid of such fuckery

Also micron stop tempting me

I really want one of thoes big stick SSDs honestly just for the novelty of them

Long boi

[sacred seal]

That's not even that good of a price for NVME type hardware, I payed that much for a gen 4 SSD

Granted those would have way more endurance

[jade scaffold]

It's 4tb

The endurance on it will be like 20k tb

[sacred seal]

Yea, my p3+ was 250$ cad for 4TB

[jade scaffold]

I cannot get a p3 here for that cheap

It's like £220 here

[sacred seal]

Got to love international shopping. What is cheap for you costs a mint for me, and what costs a mint for me is cheap for you

[jade scaffold]

yep

I can still get intel drives for like £40 for the 2 tb ones

Which is good enough for me

Do still want an E1.L SSD though can't exactly use one because I don't have a gen 5 CPU but still

£350 for a 7.68tb gen 5 SSD isn't bad huh

[cinder lagoon]

On the black friday shopping Stream LTT found a 4TB name gen 4 SSD for 150 bucks I was flummoxed

Had no dram iirc but DAAAANG

[jade scaffold]

Dramless is fine if you are only gaming on it

I need to get a new boot drive too my current one has degraded in speed dramatically lmao

Maybe I'll get a pcie gen 4 optane

The 5800x optane drive is 4 to 5x faster than any gen4 nvme flash drive has a Q depth of 1 and a 143,000 tb write endurance

That write endurance is not a typo that's insanity

The highest end version has 292,000tb write endurance good god.
Talk about long lasting

[cinder lagoon]

optane is EOL, they didnt make them till gen4

or did they 🤔

[jade scaffold]

They did

Consumer optane is eol

But they made a gen 4 drive for servers and workstations

Immensely fast

Like actuall near ddr3 speeds I believe

[jade scaffold]

even the gen 3 optanes though looking into them out perform the 990 pro

in things such as loading and updating windows

like MASSIVLY

[sacred seal]

I thought they diddn't actually have that much speed, just really low latency

[jade scaffold]

same effect low latency ram has if you will

lowkey sub 10 second windows boot time

game loading is a mixed bag however

it depends on how well optimised the games loading is

a well built game will achive the high speed a drive like the 990 pro is capable off but one that has poorly optimised loading like for example star citizen will not
Thats when somthing like optane will enormously outperform a 990 pro

thats first gen optane by the way im comparing the 990 too btw
2nd gen PCIE 4 Optane has the same sequential read writes as the 990 pro in effect with all the latency benifits of optane

I am saddend to see it go from the consumer and prosumer space
because Optane really is a phenominal technology and a objectivly superior option to current NAND Flash in use cases where storage density/capacity isnt the primary concern

[sonic meadow]

I love a healthy network

[mossy gull]

That's slow

[sonic meadow]

Yes, yes it is

[jade scaffold]

Oh jeez

4 hours for 7gb

You should try boot a game at that speeds and see what happens

[sonic meadow]

not my pc, not my monkeys 🙈

[pearl moon]

I think emulators are really where the steamdeck shines. Being able to play all those games with performance to spare within a comfortable handheld.

[surreal moss]

The new model has been calling to me

[sonic meadow]

the OLED calls us all in to its vibrant embrace

[jade scaffold]

OLED has been getting alot better in terms of life span

[cerulean helm]

This is pretty dang impressive for the price.
https://store.ui.com/us/en/pro/category/all-unifi-cloud-gateways/products/ux

[cinder lagoon]

everything unify is kinda impressive tbh they make networking pretty easy

...well at least while still giving deep control

[olive fiber]

Yeah, just wasn't using it. Some of the artifacts from any OLED on using them for a computer monitor.. text rendering issues, etc, were real annoying for me. But otherwise was fine for games and movies

[silk jasper]

Hey lads so I’ve just gotten a new Lenovo Legion 5 Slim and I’m having a few inconveniences with it was wondering if anyone had any ideas. Long story short it doesn’t load up certain games like Roblox Minecraft and other games if the sorts very well and it tends to have a black screen here and there for extended periods. Atop this for instance when loading Minecraft per se it doesn’t give me a crash report or anything it just stops trying and that’s it. Does anyone have any suggestions?

[cinder lagoon]

can you narrow it down to what games aren't loading and are you using any mods?
If you say "not loading" do you see steam (or whatever) try to launch it or just aint happening.
What other games DO load?

[silk jasper]

So Steam games do load at least Phasmophobia. It’s loaded up normally normal speed normal everything. Minecraft for instance has been both modded and vanilla clean install both ways and it’s done neither.

When it does load Minecraft it’s exceptionally slow

[cinder lagoon]

I already see a commonality between roblox and minecraft, both use OpenGL to render. Roblox seems to be able to switch to another graphics API

[silk jasper]

Recommendations?

[cinder lagoon]

do you know if your laptop is overheating?
Can you try find a link to the model you have?
you can also share a screenshot of the task manager in this tab:

[silk jasper]

It’s not running warm at all in fact it’s remarkably cool it doesn’t get passed warm when it does game

Though I like to keep my fans nice and cool

[cinder lagoon]

do you know how well phasmo runs and on what settings?

[silk jasper]

Bad photo sorry if it’s not good enough

Max settings which leads me to believe it’s not the laptop being bad

[cinder lagoon]

ohh so its a modpack. no issues with vanilla minecraft?

[silk jasper]

It takes a abysmal amount of time to load up in fact I’d say the modded one loads faster but crashes on using the menu

But still both abysmally slow

Roblox is a bit worse for loading times

In fact I normally have to run the application a few times same with Minecraft

[cinder lagoon]

I assume that is during boot-up of the game? or is the CPU usage that high in the menu / ingame?

[silk jasper]

It was bootup

[cinder lagoon]

that should definitely not be the case, ATM6 is pretty heavy

[silk jasper]

Referencing vanilla sorry

Modded takes a second but once it gets going it’s fine this laptop is or at least should be well within its limits to handle it.

[cinder lagoon]

well I can certainly help with the minecraft problem, but I suggest to keep the chat clean we should switch to a thread in #1048667464558444692

[silk jasper]

But I can never get passed the menu and never get a crash report

Oki

[cinder lagoon]

ping me in the thread

[silk jasper]

Okay

[cinder lagoon]

don't need to formulate all again I think, we'll just put a message link to here

[mossy gull]

And useless for majority of people

[cerulean helm]

Why? I can see a perfect use. Exactly one I could have used had I not wanted a dream machine and stayed with my cloud key gen 2. I have a separate detached garage. And wifi from a router or even a standard mesh setup (I had a linksys mesh) was spotty and constantly dropped out.

[mossy gull]

Because it's meant for people whp want to run their own VPN and all sorts of stuff
Ubiquiti's consumer line is called Amplifi, or use to be.
I think there is a consumer variant of the Dream Machine, and it's just called Dream Machine

[cerulean helm]

It also has Unifi network built in and isn't anywhere close to as expensive as the dream router. Amplifi is way way more expensive, as is the dream machine.

[mossy gull]

UDM Pro/SE/Wall are meant for people who need a lot

[cerulean helm]

A single amplifi router is $379... A router and mesh point combo is $700. The Dream Machine is $300.

The Express, with full access to the Unifi Network program is $150

[mossy gull]

I don't know where you live, but I have an older Amplifi router at home that costed me 250.-, and that was the combo.

[cerulean helm]

https://amplifi.com/alien
$379 on their website currently, for a single unit. Which is useless if you need a mesh system.

[mossy gull]

Oh, there you got me, that's the Alien, that's their top of the line product

[cerulean helm]

Ohh, on sale on Amazon 3rd party for just under $300....
https://www.amazon.com/AmpliFi-Ubiquiti-Tri-Band-Scalable-Networking/dp/B08CN4CFV4/ref=sr_1_4?crid=3GEDH1UIY47YZ&keywords=Amplifi&qid=1701319495&s=electronics&sprefix=amplifi%2Celectronics%2C101&sr=1-4&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.17d9e15d-4e43-4581-b373-0e5c1a776d5d

The HD router is $150 and has less features than the new Unifi Express. Also out of stock. The Amplifi Instant system is $170 and the Instant Router is $99.

[mossy gull]

All Amplifi producs are mesh capable though.
But I can understand why people want Unifi access, it's a breeze to work with(unless everything goes wrong)

[cerulean helm]

Amplifi is way to expensive for the top product where it actually has features and the lower teir stuff is trash.

[mossy gull]

@cerulean helm just know 1 thing.
Unifi capable devices do not have a name or password when setting up, you also need a Unifi account to activate a Unifi capable device.
So that they say it's set-up under 5 minutes, that's simply not true if you never worked with it.

They ain't plug-and-play devices, unless you already have 1 in your possession.

[cerulean helm]

You need an account for Orbi, Linksys mesh networks, hell the regular isp devices reguire a login. Thats not an argument here.

[mossy gull]

Wait, since when do you need an account for Linksys?
I mean you need a Unifi account, not just 1 on the router, but 1 online.

[cerulean helm]

You need it for the phone app to control the mesh network. Unless you can find the hidden web browser login which I am not even sure exists anymore.

[surreal moss]

Linksys has used accounts for almost if not at least a decade now

[cerulean helm]

Yup, I have an old Linksys mesh network before the 5ghz band opened up.

Damn thing was stupid expensive.

[mossy gull]

Yeah my last 1 I worked with was 15 years old
It was back then I went with Amplifi and then Ubiquiti.

[surreal moss]

and you don't have to have an account to use Unifi stuff

Just makes it easier

[mossy gull]

My UDM SE simply didn't want to work without account, it just threw me out if I denied making an account

[surreal moss]

That's a literal cloud gateway

One of the exceptions

[mossy gull]

Yes, and Ruhk wants 1 of the gateways.

[surreal moss]

They're good. Not sure I would use one in a personal set up

[cerulean helm]

Anyways, here are the specs for The Express from Ubiquiti, and it comes with network built in. All for $150.

[mossy gull]

I use mine because I wanted better control and more in-home stuff.
I don't want to pay for cloud services for a freaking security system.

[surreal moss]

That I would use at home

[cerulean helm]

I would have as well had I not gone the route of a Dream Machine Pro and hardwiring APs between 2 buildings and 3 4k security cameras.

[surreal moss]

I mean, I probably will too once I own something that isn't a condo

but I wouldn't recommend it off hand to someone

Have one at my new job and I've been reptty impressed with it. Really like it's ability to seamlessly fail over when one of the internet connections is being uppity

[mossy gull]

I have 4 security cameras powered by my UDM itself, 1 doorbell, 2 360° cameras, 1 door access point.
The doorbell also controls the front door😃

[cerulean helm]

I have the new doorbell pro but haven't installed it yet as I need to fix my wiring for a doorbell.

My setup has 1 camera on the house and 2 on the detached garage. I ended up running cat 6 cable up to the attic to a 2nd poe switch, and to the basement to a 3rd switch, outside underground through conduit to the garage to the last peo switch to power the AP and 2 cameras.

[mossy gull]

I would recommend just using it through WiFi, even Ubiquiti says it's safer.
You can run it through POE but people can pull out those wires and connect directly.

[cinder lagoon]

thats why we set static IPs for infrastructure :P

[cerulean helm]

My plan was to pull the doorbell wiring and just run the usb c cable via poe to usb cord they sell. But access to the wiring is a bit difficult in the house.

[surreal moss]

or whitelist the mac if you're that paranoid

[mossy gull]

You still can access a modem even if it uses static IPs through wires, it's harder through WiFi actually

[mossy gull]

I literally have to do that, I have a neighbour being an asshole and constantly trying to get access, now I literally have to block almost un-verified device, unblocking them manually if I want to connect a new device.

[surreal moss]

I meant on the port

not the wifi

[mossy gull]

My doorbell is on WiFi, just USB-C powered.
Even though I prefer POE.

People are assholes in my neighbourhood, I think 1 tried to steal my doorbell before and triggered the alarms.

[cerulean helm]

Doorbell camera is just a redundant feature for me. My cameras do the job well enough.

[mossy gull]

We aren't allowed to have a normal camera at the front door by law, if we're being discovered that the doorbell records everything that passes by and sees more than the Ring doorbell we're fucked.

[cerulean helm]

Ah, yeah, that could be a problem. Honestly, I'm not even sure what the specific laws are regarding cameras in my area other than they have to be visible.

[mossy gull]

I use to have the PTZ at the front door, but now it just collecting dust as we had to remove it, I guess 4K with 22x zoom is too high quality for the law, we're only allowed those shitty cameras that can't even see your face even if you almost kissed it.

[cinder lagoon]

hang up a false camera >:)

[mossy gull]

Those are always being stolen actually

[cerulean helm]

I'm using the G4pros, have never had an issue with them from the police.

But they look close enough to a nest camera most don't know the difference.

[mossy gull]

I like to go overkill🤣

[cinder lagoon]

tf u live at? 😭

[mossy gull]

Netherlands.

I had the PTZ because I could hang it on the attic outer wall and see the end of the street.

[surreal moss]

That would be a concern even in some parts of the U.S.

Observing your property is fine. Observing your neighbors' not so much

[cerulean helm]

Ah, just looked up local laws for outdoor security cameras in my area. Basically as long as its visible and on my property I can do what I want. Does not matter if the camera ends up viewing a neighbors property (as long as its not like secret filming through a window).

[mossy gull]

With the notion "it could", I asked around the neighbourhood and they thought it was fine because then the neighbourhood had some security.
But even pointing the PTZ only at my door was too much.

[cerulean helm]

Depends on the state. Mine says its fine as long as its reasonable.

[mossy gull]

Hang up multiple PTZs🙃

[surreal moss]

Yeah, mine also says it's fine so long as the intent isn't to monitor neighboring properties. I'm only aware of it because my last company put up cameras around the perimeter of their property and a few of the neighbors got offended

People get weird about cameras

[cerulean helm]

The only local city laws I could find are about enrolling in the video sharing program to the cops... Nope, nope nope.

[surreal moss]

That's bold

As a business? Sure. Absolutely. As an individual? Absolutely not

[mossy gull]

In the Netherlands you aren't allowed to film past your part of the sidewalk.
The PTZ(when zoomed out) and Ubiquiti doorbell have wide angle lenses so that's kinda hard not to film past my part of the sidewalk

[cerulean helm]

Hell, the only law I could find for my state is

"does not prohibit security monitoring in a residence if conducted by or at the direction of the owner or principal occupant of that residence unless conducted for a lewd or lascivious purpose."

[mossy gull]

Netherlands is extremely strict if it came to privacy, we aren't allowed to record faces with our doorbells.

[cerulean helm]

And in the state of Michigan Ive posted video of recordings of people (even kids) up to mischief on the local neighborhood app when I want to put out an alert.

Recorded kids in the alleyway lighting fires in the summer. Posted that on the app for the parents. Which obviously went over real well with their parents.

[mossy gull]

Can you imagine, my neighbour (freelance contractor) got fined because his van's security filmed the criminals stealing his stuff

[cerulean helm]

wtf

[mossy gull]

Welcome to everyone has right of privacy 😃

[sacred seal]

Bleh, forgot old CPUs don't support booting off NVME. And the r720 only has internal sata II connectors, so I cant swap out the dvd drive. I guess I will just have to shove a sata ssd into one of the drive bays.

[jade scaffold]

Rip

[olive fiber]

Ug. I'm so spoiled with Apple displays. I really need to get a better monitor.

Also, starting to like the Samsung OLED panels.

I couldn't even see some art stuff someone was working on, cause my display was clipping all the whites and blacks.. and they were doing stuff with subtle white gradients. Had to put it back on my Apple display to see it ;p

[sonic meadow]

Are you sure you didn't have the panel (or output) set to limited range? This will mess with your white and black level pretty bad, especially if your output and monitor aren't set to the same one

[olive fiber]

Yeah, don't think so. Not even an option on either

I set the dispay to 'SmartHDR', which solved the problem, but now the contrast and brightness is worse.

[jade scaffold]

okay so im looking at AMDs epyc products

and im noticing somthing rather interesting

even epycs like a 16 core one without 3D V-cache has double the cache of any of the consumer x3D chips

[jade scaffold]

figured out why
the AMD EPYC 9174F is a 16 core CPU
same cores as the consumer CPUs technically speaking
however the 7950x 16 core for desktops has 2 CCDs
the 9174f has 8

it has 2 cores Per CCD and each CCD has seemingly the full amount of cache

[jade scaffold]

trying to solve the immense Idel power draw of my 3090
Other users have reported being able to get idle power draw as low as 35w
some people think its an issue of monitor refresh rate but dropping my refresh down to 60 only drops power draw by 5w

The issue is the Memory clock isnt dropping at idle

aparently its meant to but its not

and im stuggling to fix it

[mossy gull]

Power draw has multiple factors, resolution, refresh rate, colour depth and even what happens on the background, yes Wallpaper Engine does use your GPU.

[jade scaffold]

yea i know that

but i can have literally nothing open

and it'll draw 120w

its not how its meant to work

when doing not much its meant to Drop the memory clocks my mem clocks shouldnt be locked at full speed

[mossy gull]

I noticed when I turn on both my LG 45GR, my power usage is slightly higher than using only 1 of them, same goes if I run 120Hz 10-bit or 240Hz 8-bit.

[jade scaffold]

this isnt slightly higher

this is 3-4x what idel power draw of a 3090 should be

i could accept a slightly higher power draw than what a normal user would get afterall i have in effect 2 1440p 240hz monitors

[mossy gull]

Then I don't know, does your GPU use anything like Armoury Crate?

[jade scaffold]

nope

its a 3090 FE

[mossy gull]

With the apparently overly complex and overly expensive 45° connector?

You should check what uses your GPU then, because I don't know what else to do other than running a lower resolution display.

[jade scaffold]

theres nothing complex about the connector

its literally just sideways

closed anything that Used hardware acceleration

dropped a whole 1w

1 whole watt

[mossy gull]

It's what Nvidia said on why they discontinued it on the 40 series cards

[jade scaffold]

they didnt though?

its still the 12v HPWR Connector on the 3090

its just missing the sense pins

its literally just a 12 pin connector thats on its side

[mossy gull]

I prefer the 45° on the 30 series, I dislike that on the 40 series it's straight out of the side again.

I can't find the article where it said about the added complexity or extra cost with the 45° connector.
Man I should keep an archive for said articles.

[jade scaffold]

there isnt any added complexity with it though

its a bit less structurally stable i guess

Gonna try the Studio drivers aparently that fixed the GPU Mem clocks not clocking down when doing nothing

[mossy gull]

I know, but companies like to give dumb explanations, same why the GPU power still isn't on the far end of the GPU instead of the side pointing outward.

[jade scaffold]

yea its probs just a dumb explanation they gave

they probably did it in reality because it looks better

the 3090 12 pin as much as i like that it wont press up as harsly against a case side pannel

is damn ugly

the studio drivers didn't help

[mossy gull]

I like weird stuff, like 45° angled connectors or the ones that pass through the motherboard.

[jade scaffold]

i like the placement of them on the old tesla gpus and even on some quadros where its at the end of the GPU

great for really big gpus

can be a lil inconvinient on GPUs some people try cram into a itx case tho

also i was not aware memory on GPUs was so insanely power hungry

[mossy gull]

It is oddly enough

[jade scaffold]

Good god

half of that board is ram

still cheaper than some TRX50 boards are somehow

[mossy gull]

Typical serverboard layout

[jade scaffold]

if i can haggle this epic down to a reasonable price ill probs go with an asrock board

they tend to be easiest to get

super micro boards are also pretty easy to get typicall

[mossy gull]

https://youtu.be/XkU6vQvZIqQ?si=_tXQwMPDF4Y3y08b

[jade scaffold]

this patent thats been filed i dont think means anything

MI300 i belive functions in an identical way

this pattent could just be the filing of the pattent for that
Patents for some things are released after the product is already developed

[mossy gull]

What?

[jade scaffold]

the Patent for the GPU that describes the system used by the chiplet GPU to distribute itself work

[mossy gull]

They should patent it, it could annoy Nvidia to hell and back

[jade scaffold]

yea but the reason the patent has only apeared now and not like a year ago when they were actually hyping up MI300 for the first time is because patenting it then gives other companies like NVidia a way to find a alternative around the pattent, it also makes performance estimation of AMDs products easier making it easier for NVidia to compete with them

all im saying is that Patent describes nothing really new other than possibly a consumer application of what MI300 already does for AI and Data Management

[mossy gull]

I do have the feeling that AMD is capable of taking over Nvidia on the consumer market as soon everything with MCM works well

[jade scaffold]

doesnt describe any interesting information about the interconnect its using how the dies even know what eachother are doing

[jade scaffold]

in terms of market share yea

i'd expect them to

all they really needed to to take over nvidia in the past 3 years is be competant at marketing

which amds radeon devision are not

[mossy gull]

Weaker chips are easier to produce, and having multiple can also increase efficiency.

[mossy gull]

Or they currently are more laid back till they get MCM going properly.

[jade scaffold]

no

they are just incompetant

AMD are not good at marketing their GPUs

people still buy NVidia X060 cards even though they are a worse value and only have maybe 1 or 2 extra features if even that many because NVidia market better

granted NVidia is a much much bigger company than amd so you can say they have more money to throw at marketing
but bottom line is AMDs mid range even into the high end range of products is a better value and unless you NEED CUDA or Tensor are the better choice, and people still dont buy them its been like that since RX5000 its still like that today

[mossy gull]

Nvidia also pushes hard, just like Intel.
Even to this day I meet people who think AMD is incapable of playing games higher than 1080p60

[jade scaffold]

NVidia just have greater mind share than AMD

AMD need to have their Ryzen moment but for their GPUs

[mossy gull]

The most annoying people I think are the ones who compare an AMD APU with a full on Intel/Nvidia build.

[jade scaffold]

that way market share of gpus will become more varied
which will hopefully cause NVidia to stop making overpriced shit

[mossy gull]

If the 9900XTX will be the x090 killer for a nice AMD price, then people may will think twice.
AMD makes really good GPUs, but people have to learn that AMD has changed a lot since their RX5000 series.
And their drivers aren't so shit as they use to be.

[jade scaffold]

i dont think it will be

that top end product will help with the Mind share of AMD sure

but they have alot of Mind share to gain back off the people

[mossy gull]

I hope Fluid Motion will come to all AMDs RX6000, 7000 and 8000 GPUs soon

[jade scaffold]

for AMD to catch Nvidia next gen they'll need a gpu probably 2x the speed of their current flagship

[jade scaffold]

yea

its gonna be driver level on all amd gpus 6000 and upwards isnt it so it'll work on anything right?

[mossy gull]

Anything AMD yes, Nvidia drivers block AMD Radeon drivers.

[jade scaffold]

well duh

if you have an amd and Nvidia gpu in your system at the same time you can have both drivers functional at once

but its at best fucky

at worst downright none functional

[mossy gull]

It is a pain though, I had to 1st install AMD drivers, then Nvidia drivers to make them both work correctly on my system, other way around and Nvidia would just get annoying

[jade scaffold]

yea

I've started my haggling over the Epyc

[sacred seal]

I find it amusing that marcium reflect is no longer free, but if you have a old downloader it will still let you download the last free version.

[cinder lagoon]

soooo.... sharing is caring? :D
jk I dont really need it rn :P

[jade scaffold]

dun some very rough math
if i get this Epyc, i should™️ get the equivalent performance to my 5800x if my 5800x was clocked to 5.5-6ghz

[jade scaffold]

haggling complete

[sacred seal]

So I got a wierd one for you here. I tried swapping my 2tb p2 ssd out for a 4tb p3+, and my computer would no longer boot. It would get to the bios flash screen then freeze, and give me a d0 error on the board (gigabyte x370 gaming 5).
The SSD is installed on a little PCIE board as I don't have 2 nvme slots on my motherboard. The P3+ works fine when installed into a USB caddy.
Any idea's?

[surreal moss]

Bump a power connection somewhere?

[sacred seal]

Nope, system boots fine once I remove it

I'm thinking it has to do with the fact its a gen 4 ssd

But that is wierd

[mossy gull]

Maybe DoA SSD

[sacred seal]

Nope, SSD works fine, have already cloned everything over to it

[mossy gull]

But it makes the system crash, which could mean the SSD crashes, which also means it can be a damaged or nog good produced SSD.

[sacred seal]

It works fine in its USB caddy.

[mossy gull]

Maybe it's the PCIe to NVMe card that has a problem with it

[sacred seal]

I'm thinking that must be it, but protocol wise it should be fine, and the card is also fine (my p2 worked perfectly)

So I have no clue why it would not work

[mossy gull]

The P2 is like PCIe 3.0?
And the P3 is 4.0?
Maybe the card goes iffy because the P3 has a newer PCIe slot?

[sacred seal]

Yea, wierd that it would not do that with USB though, and officially it is backwards compaitable

[mossy gull]

I had a riser that didn't want to boot with a PCIe 4.0 card in it

[sacred seal]

WTH, my x370 can support the 5800x3d?

I'm trying to update the bios right now

See if that fixes it

[sacred seal]

How bad of an idea is it to try flashing a bios off of a SD card?

[sacred seal]

Well bios is updated and its booting with the drive now. Guess the issue was that the bios just did not know what to make of a pcie 4.0 ssd

Thanks for all the suggestions

[jade scaffold]

very

a USB Stick is alot safer

[sacred seal]

Yea, I figured, but I could only find a 128gb flash drive full of data and my live linux drive

I ended up using the OS option

[jade scaffold]

yea

there is only 1 flash drive i havent lost i think

and its the flash drive i use to install windows

[mossy gull]

I recently found 3 USB thumb drives when I was looking for an HDMI cable oddly enough

[sacred seal]

Guess what I literally just found...

One of the USB sticks I bought specifically for stuff like this

[mossy gull]

Nice

[jade scaffold]

This

this is what ram slot hell looks like

why is there 2 different ways i can put 2 dimms in but not 6 dimms

[sacred seal]

Finally got a stand that let me mount 3 monitors, does anyone know of a way to increase the "Snappyness" of the full screen area? I keep bringing things onto my top monitor instead of making them full screen

[jade scaffold]

Looks nice

and yea Windows zones are not snappy atall

atleast in 10

in 11 if you are dragging a window it auto pops up the zones you set up which helps

[sacred seal]

I was hoping I could do something with fancy zones, but I dont see an option for that

[jade scaffold]

its a w11 only thing iirc

maybe w11 pro though?

therers some 3rd party programs for 10 that can do it but i dont know how snappy they would be

[sacred seal]

Third party is fine. I just dont know what I would be googling

All my results so far have been for entirely unrelated issues

[jade scaffold]

i found one by searching somthing along the lines of "how to split monitor into virtual monitors"

[surreal moss]

You can double click the bar of the window you want to full screen

[sacred seal]

Yea, the problem is that I have mussel memory of draging a window from one screen to the top of another to open it in full screen

[surreal moss]

Same

It's still an issue for me from time to time but it's gotten better

[pearl moon]

Have you tried no HDR?

[olive fiber]

Yeah, that was where I couldn't see bright things or dark things.. they were just black

If I enable it on the display, stuff looks washed out a bit, but I see all those things

[mossy gull]

Windows Power Toys I think it's called.
https://apps.microsoft.com/detail/XP89DCGQ3K6VLD?hl=en-US&gl=US

[sacred seal]

Yea, fancy zones are part of that, it lets you set custom snap points, but doesn't give you any control over how snappy they are

[mossy gull]

That's odd, for me I mress Shift when trying to snap and the snappyness is like a very strong magnet

[sacred seal]

Mabey because I am not using any custom zones?

[sonic meadow]

now why in hell would I have had the "Status" column so damn wide?

[mossy gull]

That could be it, yeah I use custom zones as my displays are big enough to show 3 things but Windows doesn't want more than 2.

[sacred seal]

I might try flipping the alignment so I have to move my mouse down to access my top monitor. I use the middle one far more often

Going to take some getting used to though

[mossy gull]

I always had a stacked orientation, so I use fancy zones near daily

[cinder lagoon]

well, there's your next CPU upgrade :P

[cinder lagoon]

only workaround I know is ever so slightly mis-aligning the monitors in display manager so you have corners where you can bump into 🙃

[surreal moss]

There’s the chaotic neutral method

[sonic meadow]

definitely thinking that the realtek nic is fucked. the card spent something like 3-4 hours "resetting". maybe this is my cue to bite the bullet and get a pair of 10gig cards...

and apparently the 2 port intel x540 are cheaper than the 1 port on ebay 😆

[cinder lagoon]

ahh sucks - that was that remote system of yours right?

[sonic meadow]

yeah

If I had known about the general issues with realtek nics I... probably still might have got that board. verified as operational ECC isnt common on consumer AM4 boards

[cinder lagoon]

didnt know they had general issues 🤔

[jade scaffold]

I dislike realtek NICs I must say

Always been a bit fucky in my experience

[sonic meadow]

They are generally considered "okay" for consumer use, but shit for server/etc use

[cinder lagoon]

FINALLY A HANDHELD WITH USB 4
https://youtu.be/YWp6qjevHH0?si=jQeG_62MNd8BIfJc

BEHOOOOLD, THE LEG™️

[jade scaffold]

The legion is really cool imo

It's pretty much just as repairable as the steam deck whilst just being better

[cinder lagoon]

now if it could also run steamdeck OS it seems kinda like a no-brainer for me 🤔

[mossy gull]

The GPD Win 4 also has USB4

Which was released before the LEG

[cinder lagoon]

hmmm true...

[cinder lagoon]

price?
LEG is $700

[mossy gull]

That's also true, but the Win4 is more portable

[jade scaffold]

In theory it should be able to

It's an AMD chip zen 4 based rDNA 2 graphics I believe a Linux driver should exist for it

[mossy gull]

I thought the Z1 Extreme and 7840U were Zen4 and RDNA 3

[jade scaffold]

It might be 3 yea

If it's 780m GPU it's 3 if it's 680m it's 2 I believe

Regardless point stands that it should be able to be made to work in Linux and by extension steam os

Also the big thinking square arrives tomorrow

[mossy gull]

The Z1 Extreme is I believe based on the 7840U, the 7840U is so far I know Zen4 and RDNA3.
It would work with Linux bo problem, but not sure about SteamOS

As far I can find the Z1 is only 8% weaker than the 780M

And the CPU part is basically margin of error weaker for the 7840U

[jade scaffold]

Yea the z1 is a super mobile 7840U in effect

[jade scaffold]

Regect a10 cosplaying fan embrace sticking noctua fans to things that shouldn't have noctua fans

It's so small

[mossy gull]

If it fits, it sits

[jade scaffold]

the fans the same size as the one that comes with the server heatsink

the heatsink however is whats small

it can aparently do 400w

so who am i to argue

[cinder lagoon]

thats a server sink?

it looks so desktop-y

and small at that

[jade scaffold]

Yee

It's a 4u heatsink rated for 400w

[mossy gull]

Yep, this is a fire hazard to the max.

[sonic meadow]

1060 is a... 150w or so gpu, even likely the 3GB variant. still not grea though (for safety).
probably trying to run off integrated graphics, that intel HD on the 3770 is getting quite long in the teeth

[mossy gull]

Nope, the Molex/SATA doesn't have enough power

[sonic meadow]

funnily enough you should be able to get to roughly the 120w tdp of the 1060 with a pcie slot and a sata power.
pcie slot: 75w
sata power: 1.5A/pin, 3 pins (for 12v)= 54w notional

which totals 139w, though that would be pushing the limit of the SATA power, and assumes that 75w are coming through the slot.
the 6pin pcie connector is rated for 75w by the spec, and devices typically draw more from them than the slot when available

we are also running under the assumption that the SATA power connector is up to spec (1.5A/pin), and that there isnt any corrosion on any of them lowering their resistance, and thus causing more current to go through the other two pins in the trio

[mossy gull]

Even if SATA/Molex and the PCIe slot can combined give enough, SATA/Molex usually isn't meant for the constant high load.

Yep, Intel just contradicted themselves
https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-compares-amd-zen2-architecture-in-ryzen-7000-series-to-snake-oil

[sonic meadow]

Molex more so (pins are rated at 11A/ea), but I generally saw the connector rated at 75w.

I don't disagree about the risks, just pointing out the spec :p
SATA power adapters of all kind tend to be shit though

[mossy gull]

Pins are rated, doesn't mean the cable will be, and considering it's a 500w PSU without any 6+2 pin cables, you bet it's a very cheap and jank PSU.

[jade scaffold]

Also sata power is such a odd connector it can supply 3.3 5 and 12v

[sonic meadow]

5 is normal, 3.3 wasn't used for much and eventually got phased out of the connector

[jade scaffold]

I think it was just phased out of the devices I think psus and the connector still do 3.3

Regardless just do 12v bozo

Do conversion as and where's needed

[sonic meadow]

Laptop stuff was largely 5v for a while

[jade scaffold]

Yea

Alot of fans on some devices are 5v instead of 12

[sonic meadow]

iirc the 3.3v was used in the older hot swap stuff.
Nowadays one of the 3.3v pins is used for a drive disable (same as with SAS)

[mossy gull]

Still, SATA/Molex isn't really wise for the GPU.

[jade scaffold]

Yea sata power isn't the most secure connector

Though like if you plug a bunch of them into a pcie cable there's no reason that wouldn't work

[sonic meadow]

its a nicer to use connector than molex, but it is very much not designed for higher power draw than hard drives

[jade scaffold]

Hardrives should just be powered by a pcie 6 pin

12v HPWR to all the drives

[sonic meadow]

ewwww

cant even split it in half, would just give you 12v or gnd 😆

[jade scaffold]

Nah wait

24 pin to hardrives when

[sonic meadow]

mini-usb

still need sata though, just using mini-usb for power

[jade scaffold]

The 24 pin annoys me so much like why is it so fat it has all of a bees dick worth of power going through it

[sonic meadow]

because it used to have like 7 different power rails going through it

and the extra four pins were all 12v/gnd iirc

[jade scaffold]

Yea but why is it fat

[sonic meadow]

ah nope, was 12v, 5v, 3.3v, and a com

[jade scaffold]

Why not use a still 24 pin but smaller

[sonic meadow]

because its a 30 year old standard, and that was what was available at the time

[jade scaffold]

I love how server mobos have just totally ditched it as well

They don't even use the 12vo ATX connector

They just have like 4 CPU EPS pins going into them and nothing else

[sonic meadow]

server mobos have followed none of the physical atx specs for probably 20 years now.
OEM server mobos that is, at least ones coming from the vendor in rack mount chassis

layout and non-peripheral internal connectors that is

[jade scaffold]

Even the ones that you can just buy now are ditching the 24 pin

The gigabyte one I was looking at still had it but I'm somewhat certain most of its pins aren't occupied and it's only there to tell a atx PSU to turn on

I love how unbelievably stupid this board is

24 dimm slots
12 channels of memory look at all the little pcie nvme enabled slots above the ram slots

That's standard EATX size as well can just like toss it in a workstation just incase you want like 6tb of ram

[sonic meadow]

which standard EATX size? /cries in GN Steve

[jade scaffold]

XD

It's the max Size most cases that tout EATX support

Like 310x330mm

[sonic meadow]

those two EPS connectors are probably just for CPU power. its "only" 600w between them. the other connector looks like a 6pin pcie, so is probably there to provide some extra power for the pcie slots.

[jade scaffold]

AsRock you beautiful mother fuckers

[sonic meadow]

which means that the 24pin is likely being used normally

[jade scaffold]

Black PCB epyc mobo

[sonic meadow]

got a not-thumbnail for that one?

[jade scaffold]

But where's my other 4 channels

Gimme a sec their website takes like 3 years to load

[sonic meadow]

more conventional layout than the "all the ram" of the other

[jade scaffold]

Yea

[sonic meadow]

this? https://www.servethehome.com/asrock-rack-genoad8x-2t-bcm-review-an-uncomfortably-good-motherboard-amd-epyc-broadcom/asrock-rack-genoad8x-2t-bcm-motherboard-overview/

[jade scaffold]

Yea their website won't load on my mobile data for some reason

[sonic meadow]

Overview
literally just two images and a page title

[sonic meadow]

🤦‍♂️

[jade scaffold]

Yooooo they got the really fancy pcie slot

It's the one you can stick ram in with an adon card

https://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=GENOAD8X-2T/BCM#Specifications

Here's their website for it

[sonic meadow]

I found it 😆

[jade scaffold]

So if I want all 12 channels of memory on this thing I need to put the rest on a pcie card

[sonic meadow]

or the eps12v are being used for slot power as well 🤔 a single one would cover most epyc processors

eh, who knows

[jade scaffold]

Most of Genoa's base tdps are 360w except from the low power ones

[sonic meadow]

the asrock actually has a pcie 6pin hiding out between the fan connectors

[jade scaffold]

Most of them can be set to 400w in the bios

[sonic meadow]

which it says to use when 4 graphics cards are installed

[jade scaffold]

Yea a 6 pin pcie and 3 8 pin EPS

That's alot of power

[sonic meadow]

900w+75w

[jade scaffold]

Seems a touch overkill tbh

6 pin fan connectors too interesting

[sonic meadow]

its just an extra speed sensor 🤔

im guessing they expect pin6 to be used for something later

[jade scaffold]

Yea

Funky

I'm leaning towards this asrock board though I'm gonna keep looking at boards

[sonic meadow]

the gigabyte one, while it has more ram slots, does have less conventional expansion slots

and if you want lanes for conventional devices isnt the way to go

[jade scaffold]

Nvme is most of what that expansion is gonna be used for anyways so that doesn't bother me I use nvme server drives anyway

But also the gigabyte one is blue

And I don't need 24 slots as funny as it looks

I only want 12 for memory bandwidth though 8 channel is probs fine for my cpus 256mb of cache

Gigabyte you can't power 2 400w cpus off 2 EPS cables

[mossy gull]

Gigabyte: Try me

[jade scaffold]

There sadly isn't much in the way of cooling options for sp5 either

I also need a screw driver that can torque the screws properly

[jade scaffold]

How much power you guys think I'm gonna need for a 3090 and a Epyc Genoa 9174F got like 8 drives of which 5 are nvme 3 are sata got fans 9 and 1 pump and 3 additional cards in the main pcie slots

Ya think 1500 is enough keeping in mind my want for a 5090 or if amd have an offering that interests me what ever they drop next year

[mossy gull]

I don't know, I'll stick with AMD as long Nvidia stays being an ass

[jade scaffold]

And still haven't earnt my trust back from all the driver shitty they have caused

[mossy gull]

For me Nvidia had shitty drivers, at least current AMD drivers are pretty good

[jade scaffold]

NVidias drivers atleast work in my experience their main issue is the memory clock on some systems won't drop to idle

Rx 5000 couldn't out perform a 1050ti in many cases and was borderline in unusable for 6 months after launch

Rx 6000 launched fine then and abandoned it's drivers for 7 months

Rx 7000 has been mostly fine aside from amds anti lag thing making csgo angry

[mossy gull]

I had times the Nvidia driver told me I removed the GPU

[jade scaffold]

On a laptop I had years ago they updated the driver and the computer became unusable because of how badly they fucked the driver

They've gotten better now

But they still aren't trust worthy in my eyes if they are willing to abandon a 2 year old GPU line up for 7 months

[sonic meadow]

laptop gpu drivers have been a mixed bag over the years

[mossy gull]

These days I just hate Nvidia is still the 1 with 2 bloody drivers.
Just have 1 streamlined driver like the competition

[sonic meadow]

I had an intel+amd laptop (2nd gen intel), and it took weird custom drivers that neither AMD nor Intel supported. pain in the ass

[jade scaffold]

Amd having 1 driver was not by choice lmao

[sonic meadow]

early switchable graphics I believe

[jade scaffold]

They originally had 2 but one was so hilariously unstable they abandoned it

[mossy gull]

I had an AMD laptop with an external GPU, it was in the Radeon HD3000 era

[jade scaffold]

Nvidia also only really have 1 driver

Unless you are doing something so important you need verified drivers

The gforce experience one is the only one needed

[mossy gull]

The Windows 3.0 variant?

[sonic meadow]

oh yeah, geforce experience is a thing. I completely dropped it after they enforced a sign-in to use it

[jade scaffold]

They have a studio driver and the gforce driver for main line desktop gpus

That's all they have

[jade scaffold]

Absolute unit acquired

AM4 ryzen for scale

[jade scaffold]

hows this board look you guys

MBD-H13SSL-N

[mossy gull]

And Intel and AMD have it in 1.

[jade scaffold]

they dont have studio drivers though

they are just general drivers

[mossy gull]

AMD has studio drivers actually

[jade scaffold]

okay so got this ugly fucking thing

but atleast its got 12 dim slots

[sacred seal]

What are you doing where you need that much potential ram capacity/ latency

[jade scaffold]

nothing but the CPUs got so much cache that in performance benchmarks it actually benifits from having more channels of ram

[sacred seal]

Ah, makes sense

[jade scaffold]

and because its not got 3D V-Cache its just got silly ammounts of cache for a 16 core i should be able to push it to higher clocks while getting the benifit of goofy ammounts of cache

[amber fable]

Intel has lost their minds

https://youtu.be/xUT4d5IVY0A

[jade scaffold]

Yea they are really going off the rocker

[jade scaffold]

Gonna overclock this epyc

[cinder lagoon]

rightfully so! ^^

[jade scaffold]

Here me out it has the advantage that 3d V-Cache cpus have right of having shit tonnes of cache without the weaknesses of 3D V-Cache thoes being lower stability with higher voltages and clocks and being unable to share between CCDs

Which means in theory I can push Ryzen X clock speeds with beyond X3D cache amounts

[jade scaffold]

It I can get it to clock over 4.8ghz all core that would make it as fast per core as the 7800x3D with double the core count if I can get it at faster clocks than that in theory it will become the fastest gaming CPU arround for some games that is

I'm aiming for atleast 4.7-4.8 when in a gaming load as that will guarantee nomatter what's being played it'll be substantially faster than the 5800x I have by 15% minimum all the way upto 1.5x max faster in games that make good use of extra cache

[cinder lagoon]

gl, tell us the results

[jade scaffold]

I will once the mobo arrives in the next 4-6 days

Also as over the comming months I add more channels of ram I'll keep updated on how that impacts performance Zen 4 likes lots of ram bandwidth

[jade scaffold]

AMD Have just named a Super computer Unit EL Capitan

they have to be joking

[mossy gull]

No, it's AMD

[mossy gull]

Nvidia nerfing the 3050 8GB, lowering its VRAM to 6GB and cancelling the 8GB variant.
Nvidia's reason: It impacts 4060 8GB sales too much.
https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-preparing-geforce-rtx-3050-with-6gb-vram-8gb-model-to-be-phased-out

[balmy flicker]

better question why are they still selling the 30serise did they just over produce chips?

[sonic meadow]

Selling them over time allows them to not saturate the market so much, and thus sell them at a higher price.
It's always possible though that sales were lower than expected, and since silicon orders are set up well in advance then it was going to be difficult to pivot it away to a different product. A product which would likely have been the same thing in the end, not sure what else they have at that node size

[surreal moss]

Consider too when the 3000 series was released. It's possible they over estimated how many they needed to manufacture.

[sonic meadow]

yeah, coming out of the absolute mess that was the 20 series

[jade scaffold]

The best thing to come out of 2000 was the 2060 super

There was 2 enthusiast options then everything else was just a worse 1080ti

[sonic meadow]

I was talking more about the scalping/etc than the lineup itself

the lineup was... fine. nothing great

[jade scaffold]

Other than the middle 4 gpus of the stack being just bootleg 1080tis

Well all the none super ones were total garbage

[jade scaffold]

Odd question anyone know of any screwdrivers that let you set the torque on them