Bobby, a new voice assistant and Snowy successor

[wooden wedge]

oh well, idk, I'm sure one of these work

[covert ingot]

It does look a bit busy

[wooden wedge]

that's true

the bookshelf is the biggest issue I think

[edgy flame]

it's cute, I like it

[karmic lion]

Works for me. I do sort of miss the friendly round font.

Which is, granted, not a particularly accurate representation of any text the app ever shows.

[wooden wedge]

that's fair

[edgy flame]

can we pick a cooler screenshot? like of a command with pretty boxes that pop up on screen?

[edgy flame]

that's my only critique

[karmic lion]

It does sort of amuse me that after a week of redesigning everything the screenshot is of something that is entirely untouched.

Except for being bold now

[wooden wedge]

indeed

[karmic lion]

The current text explains the book being read

If it was e.g. a timer being set then the picture doesn't make sense any more

We just need to make one of those fancy GIFs of bobby doing lots of things as the first screenshot

[wooden wedge]

I wish banners could be gifs

[karmic lion]

Presumably our control of the app store means they could be if we cheated

[covert ingot]

You can add multiple banners and it'll cycle through them

[wooden wedge]

oh

[covert ingot]

It's like a gif, just 3spf

[karmic lion]

(But GIFs are terrible and that would probably be too big)

[wooden wedge]

second frame per

second per frame?

[karmic lion]

Banner of bobby reading a book

[covert ingot]

I think my brain went "You don't mean spf, that's suncream"

[karmic lion]

Banner of bobby in the kitchen setting a timer

Banner of bobby with an umbrella checking the weather

Don't ask how bobby holds the umbrella

[wooden wedge]

yeah, I agree

bobby needs a chef's hat

[karmic lion]

I am also very curious what the actual question being answered in that screenshot is

Not that it matters

[wooden wedge]

can you recommend me a beginner c programming book

it keeps recommending that book no matter the level of expertise

[karmic lion]

Maybe a little dated

I didn't know bobby was such a fan of K&R

[wooden wedge]

c78 is the only c that matters

[finite night]

Please, haha

[finite night]

Love the extra text at the top of this one ❤️

[wooden wedge]

is there/was there a limit?

[covert ingot]

3 per platform

[wooden wedge]

those are per platform too?

[covert ingot]

They can be yep

[karmic lion]

Gotta show the right watch

[wooden wedge]

I need to get graphics for all the platforms now

[covert ingot]

In case you don't have it: https://developer.rebble.io/developer.pebble.com/guides/appstore-publishing/appstore-assets/index.html

[wooden wedge]

I have seen it mentioned

[karmic lion]

Fortunately bobby only actually supports two platforms

[wooden wedge]

it could support 3 if circles are ever possible

the lack of microphone is a difficulty for the remainder

oh actually, emery is a possibility too

there's so much screen area on emery

[harsh brook]

It's a nice looking screen

[karmic lion]

T3 text input

[wooden wedge]

t9 wasn't actually 9 keys

[karmic lion]

I know

Though I don't know where the 9 did come from

The successor to T8?

Apparently it stands for "9 keys"

I guess if you discount the punctuation it was true

I am now curious which key specifically was the ninth

[karmic lion]

So I guess this thing I knew was false

[edgy flame]

would be fun but idk if it's worth it for the, what, 3 in existence? lol

my first watchface or two had emery support and then I decided i don't care

[static jackal]

Out of curiosity - what did you use to make the drawing/animations for bobby?

The times up animation is sooo cute!

[karmic lion]

I think it's all inkscape

[karmic lion]

Bobby wants dinner and is just going to stare at the hourglass until it's ready.

[edgy flame]

these are really cute

[wooden wedge]

I forgot to add a pot on that hob

I would add unwashed dishes too, but there's not enough space

bobby can pretend to have taken care of that

[whole wraith]

This app is amaizing! Thank you!

When Bobby is lauched with a button press & hold, it immediately goes into listening mode. This is awesome. However, is there a way to cancel the listening and move into the "watchface mode" with the menu?

[karmic lion]

There isn't

I might add a setting for how quick launch behaves

[whole wraith]

Great, thanks! Perhaps a double-tap with the center button could act as a "become a watchface now" button?

[karmic lion]

What's your use case?

[whole wraith]

This way I could e.g. set a reminder with quick launch and check the remaining time with a quick launch. Plus the menu gets a bit cluttered with so many great apps you wonderful people are making lately.

[karmic lion]

Hm

(you can also verbally ask it for the time remaining but I grant that's perhaps not so convenient)

[whole wraith]

Thanks!

[karmic lion]

This does also remind me that I was considering changing the timer set confirmations to instead be cards that actually count down the time.

[karmic lion]

Bobby is prepared for the sun with a parasol

Those all look good to me

[wooden wedge]

the idea is that bobby is prepared for when it actually rains according to the screenshot that's not there yet

[karmic lion]

Makes sense

[edgy flame]

this'd be super cool

[nimble moss]

Everyday the ponny seems to get stronger. I worry about when Bobby hits over 9000 power

[nimble moss]

One thing I always wanted to get onto pebble, and with an OSS PebbleOS I migth someday is the totally inane idea of morse text entry

[wooden wedge]

I wonder if I should subtitle it with Rebble assistant rather than Pebble assistant

do one of those R with differently coloured right leg

[edgy flame]

I think that would be good

Getting some kinda Rebble branding into the banner is good

since this is A Rebble Thing

[karmic lion]

The word immediately above the banner is "Rebble"

[sick apex]

interesting choice

[edgy flame]

yeah, but that's also only on the app store page- once you have it in your locker the author reads as Katharine Berry

[karmic lion]

You also can't see the banner there!

I should probably change the author there if it's being a Rebble Thing.

[karmic lion]

This isn't an objection, just an observation

But if it's changed to Rebble I probably wouldn't do anything with the stroke on the R

I think a prefer Pebble because a Rebble isn't a thing

But I also don't have any strong feelings on it.

[wooden wedge]

any particular requests for the banner screenshots?

[karmic lion]

Well I guess you'll have to get the weather to be raining somehow

[wooden wedge]

I will just ask for the weather in england

[karmic lion]

I enjoy the thematic reminder on the timer one but I wonder whether it should actually just be a timer instead.

[wooden wedge]

yeah, probably

I said "remind me", but realistically for short periods of time it should be a timer rather than reminder

because a reminder wouldn't work anyway for that short of a period

[karmic lion]

Indeed

I assume if you scrolled down on that screen it pointed that out

It seems to do that reliably

[wooden wedge]

yes it did

huh

umm

[karmic lion]

It claimed to set a reminder but actually set a timer. Thus, lie detector.

[wooden wedge]

I asked it for a timer

it did what I wanted really

[karmic lion]

I wonder whether the extra context it looks like you provided inspired it to say "remind"

[wooden wedge]

yeah, that's likely

[karmic lion]

Maybe I should accept timers as reminders

(the actual way the lie detector works is it classifies the message as zero or more of a timer, an alarm, or a reminder, and then I throw in a complaint if the classification doesn't match the function calls)

[wooden wedge]

oh, there's two different progress bar patterns https://developer.rebble.io/developer.pebble.com/guides/design-and-interaction/implementation/index.html

[karmic lion]

Really, if it sets anything it probably doesn't need the lie detector

The verifier is just there as a nudge that something might be wrong if no box appears

If a box does appear, the user can read it themselves

[barren raptor]

I really wish that Bobby could cancel a reminder it set - it keeps on misunderstanding the time I say for a reminder and then I have to wait until the wrong reminders sync on the timeline and manually delete them

For some reason, the voice recognition kept picking up "fourteen ten" as "04:10", and asking bobby to "set another reminder for fourteen ten" caused it to put a 04:10 reminder on the next day instead...

...and now it's picking it up perfectly every time

damn you inconsistent voice recognition!

[tight breach]

@karmic lion - I just wanted to chime in to say that reminders have been working great on the latest build. Thanks for your help!

[finite night]

Bobby and I both enjoy our sushi after it's been lightly sauteed

The banners are amazing LCP 😄

[karmic lion]

I have invoked @azure goblet's forbidden magic.

[fervent steppe]

this right here is what the open sourcing of PebbleOS was meant to unleash

[karmic lion]

also, dynamically sized speech bubble

very productive things to do with my time.

the problem with dynamic speech bubble is that it leaves the rest of the space looking bizarre.

[finite night]

Ahhh, I love it!

I think I might keep the top of the bubble where it was - better imo to have the extra space next to bobby, rather than the emptiness just under the time

if that makes sense

[karmic lion]

that makes for a very long tail

[finite night]

he is a horse, after all

/joke

i think i would keep the tail anchored a bit higher, like just above their nose?

feel like in a lot of cartoons the tail doesn't necessarily stretch all the way to the speaker's mouth, since (to your point) that can be awkward looking and/or get in the way, so I'd honestly opt for a tail that feels like a good length to you and just make sure it's pointing in the right direction 🙂

rough photoshop example - don't mind the pixels

i guess i'd probably shift it (the tail) slightly to the right so it's not directly over the snoot - and that way if the text did break to a third line the tail could just shift directly down (if that's how it's coded, and perhaps it isn't) (i shifted it to the left in my mockup, to be clear)

[karmic lion]

I have decided I have spent far too much time on this.

[finite night]

i get that a lot, haha

[karmic lion]

wrapping crimes: https://github.com/pebble-dev/bobby-assistant/commit/a6ef4c96198a6c5e274b229bf75c0977a1046970

[wooden wedge]

that is incredible

[azure goblet]

I am glad this is open-source. Future changes to Pebble OS may break this and this way, the firmware engineers have a way to see how and why. You wouldn't believe how many hacks I pulled for my productions in the past for which I had to pay the price when writing Gossan. Without source code it's multiple times harder to work around those… And also: People can learn from it!

[wooden wedge]

would it be possible to remove the dot indicating that you can click the middle button to speak while the button can't be pressed?

ie while it's loading a response

[karmic lion]

Yes, that sounds quite reasonable

Does it actually enforce not pressing it? I don't recall.

[wooden wedge]

oh I can't press it because I took a screenshot so now bobby won't work until indeterminate time in the future

it will just endlessly try to load up a response

[karmic lion]

what

[wooden wedge]

I see three pulsing dots and that's about all that happens

well, and my question

and the dot on the side

[karmic lion]

Bizarre

[wooden wedge]

the middle button does nothing in this state

[karmic lion]

If screenshots break it I might assume that the cobble pebble protocol implementation also needs work

[wooden wedge]

I am curious how that happens really

[karmic lion]

It might be interesting to see app logs from that state though

[wooden wedge]

yeah, I might have a look later

[karmic lion]

Anyway if I'm somehow disabling the button I can probably hide the dot when I do

[wooden wedge]

dictation works without a hitch in this state too, making it all the more fascinating

[karmic lion]

The one weird thing I recall screenshots do on the watch is lock the framebuffer while the screenshot is sent, but that doesn't seem likely to be related.

[wooden wedge]

progress, now I'm getting an error and not endless dots

[karmic lion]

I think I am going to put in that cobble warning after all

[wooden wedge]

I don't know how many people have that much reason to take a screenshot

[karmic lion]

Nonetheless

Does cobble implement Pebble.showSimpleNotificationOnPebble or will I have to actually put effort in?

[wooden wedge]

https://github.com/pebble-dev/mobile-app/blob/2a1d19e7f23b5b1bc7c6ec44d4c3e2a46c1871a6/android/shared/src/androidMain/kotlin/io/rebble/cobble/shared/js/WebViewPKJSInterface.kt#L17

bad news

[karmic lion]

Bah

Oh well, I needed to put something in to warn about not having a subscription

It can share a mechanism

[wooden wedge]

at this point, idk why this doesn't work

I restarted the watch, the phone, redid the setup of the app

[karmic lion]

It's possible cobble is unrelated and bobby is just broken

[wooden wedge]

the last thing to do is to look at logs

oh, wait

I was just trying with too long queries apparently?

it works just fine with short queries

[karmic lion]

Hmmmm

Maybe bobby actually is broken given sufficiently long queries?

[wooden wedge]

I did do longer queries yesterday and haven't really updated the app

since cobble doesn't do updates

[karmic lion]

How long is long?

[wooden wedge]

more than 5 or 6 words apparently

[karmic lion]

Hm.

[wooden wedge]

though I asked "What's the weather" and it just didn't answer either

[karmic lion]

That's not very long.

[wooden wedge]

it did answer to "Brussels" with a weather widget tho

[karmic lion]

That is plausibly an actual bug, imig it generates a widget start but not a widget end you just get an empty response.

I've not seen this happen since I fixed a typo that was causing it but it's a thing that could happen

[wooden wedge]

hmm

oh, worth noting: cobble can't get location yet I'm fairly sure

(or maybe I was gaslit by ai)

[karmic lion]

That shouldn't cause a problem though I don't know if I handle failing to retrieve a location properly

I handle specifically disabling it

I do recall crc saying location didn't work for mysterious reasons

[wooden wedge]

it seems like a weather specific issue tbh

[karmic lion]

I should probably actually handle the case of unknown location for weather widgets, currently I tell the model it can do them for the user's current location unconditionally

[wooden wedge]

ok, so: asking for weather in london is broken, but asking for weather in Brussels isn't

[karmic lion]

That makes very little sense

[wooden wedge]

what

I know

ok, no, it just can't do brussels either sometimes

I don't think I got london once though, I'm so confused

well, something is wrong with the weather and idk what

[karmic lion]

Weird

But it's too 2am for me to be inclined to investigate

[wooden wedge]

yeah it's not worth it

[karmic lion]

There's plausibly something there with the lack of working location support

Which I should handle

But also this further motivates me to put in that cobble warning

If I'm lucky it'll even show up

[wooden wedge]

bobby is a mexican immigrant to san diego, that's why celcius

[covert ingot]

Bobby has an umbrella, but it's sunny and there's a second umbrella in the umbrella holder

Bobby's first umbrella is clearly built in like some inspector gadget device

[wooden wedge]

well, it's clearly going to be raining according to the card

also the second umbrella really fits the tagline at the top

[azure goblet]

Isn't the idea that some of the preparedness rubs off? What does it bring for Bobby to be prepared?

So: The umbrella, I guess, is for the user – tagline doesn't make that clear?

[wooden wedge]

that's true

[wooden wedge]

hm, that doesn't contain any p2 assets

[wooden wedge]

hm, I need this in a different colour, green doesn't work very well with pink

[wooden wedge]

the blue one is difficult to replicate, therefore I'm not gonna bother for now

I lied

I think I gimped enough for today

now this is what I call cursed!

I do like the pt shaped reflection

[tired pike]

ah yes, the secret colour never-released Pebble 2

[wooden wedge]

I could use somebody with a P2 to take some screenshots to be able to create those banners

my p2 is not with me right now and won't be anytime soon

[rugged merlin]

For some reason it won't load on my Pebble 2, but it still looks fantastic! Kudos!

[edgy flame]

can you take a screenshot from the pebble android app itself?

[wooden wedge]

I don't know actually

[edgy flame]

I think you gotta use the cli

[wooden wedge]

I just use cobble

cli is an option though for sure

[edgy flame]

cobble doesn't work with p2 right now otherwise I totally would

[wooden wedge]

oh yeah, that's true

I forgot

[karmic lion]

Judging by that screenshot I am guessing cobble also does not apply the colour correction the pebble tool does

[wooden wedge]

nope

[stiff fern]

One quick feature request, it would be great to have a “fit to screen” mode for answer length.

Basically telling the model to keep its answers under a certain character length.

[karmic lion]

It has escaped to Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/pebble/comments/1j8ytiw/bobby_pebbles_new_voice_assitant_by_rebble/

[coarse cedar]

bobby has breached containment, I repeat, bobby has breached containment

[finite night]

horse on the run

[edgy flame]

urghhh i deleted my reddit for a reason, i deleted my reddit for a reason,

Super cool seeing all the energy behind it though! people love bobby!

making it just A Rebble Thing that works with your subscription was a brilliant choice

[karmic lion]

It's almost like when I had a job I didn't hate!

[tight breach]

Not that I’ve ever reached even 1% of Bobby’s quota, will there be a tiered rebble price range for higher quotas?

[karmic lion]

I hope we don't end up needing to worry about that

Extensive use of Bobby is by far the most expensive per-user service Rebble has ever offered, which is why we put explicit quotas on it.

But I want to try to design to avoid needing to sell more expensive subscriptions, rather than sell more expensive subscriptions.

[coarse cedar]

If I calculated correctly, the quota is $2 correct?

[karmic lion]

yes

users who actually exhaust their quota and also have a monthly subscription (a substantial chunk of which goes to processing fees) may still be losing us money.

but so are all the users who don't pay anything, so

as long as it all balances out

[static jackal]

I just subscribed so I could use bobby haha

[coarse cedar]

I think the most usage of Bobby will happen when people are trying it out for the first time

Then it's probably just going to be reminders and stuff

It'll be fine

[weary ether]

It's a loss leader for sure

[karmic lion]

unfortunately, Bobby development will now abruptly pause due to my lack of anywhere to sit while I do it

[edgy flame]

what all do we need diorite screenshots of? i am wearing a diorite now

let's see how hard it is to install pebble sdk in currentyear

[karmic lion]

I am very tempted to write a Go program that just takes screenshots

so I can statically compile it and run it without it being a Gigantic Pain

oh, someone on reddit asked about music control.

and specifically spotify

I think we can actually do Spotify because of their wild setup

(where, for some reason, an API can control any of your music players)

might be a fun diversion

[edgy flame]

there was an old app called Pebblify that was a fully featured spotify api remote

[coarse cedar]

I was planning on building that into my fork tomorrow (and upstreaming it if it was good enough)

[edgy flame]

sounds like we need a tiny music icon

[coarse cedar]

The only thing I haven't quite thought of yet is auth

[karmic lion]

in the meantime, pondering keeping track of a user's reminders so that bobby can look at and delete them

The biggest problem with this is that, if they are deleted from the timeline by the user, I can't tell

[karmic lion]

ooh, screenshots

I think the weather has to be raining for the image to make sense

(or rather, the question has to be "how will the weather be today?" or similar and the answer has to be "rainy")

[edgy flame]

like, this is a real icon and not a generic "weather"?

ahh, right

[karmic lion]

what

several degrees of confusion have transpired for that to happen

[edgy flame]

i told it the tongue twister

[karmic lion]

wikipedia(article_name="Woodshuck", wiki="Wikipedia") is something it can do. But just spitting it at the user isn't going to achieve anything.

[edgy flame]

pdhfhfhah it says "yup, that's a tongue twister, wikipedia does not have info on how much wood they would chuck but it does say theyre important for soil health"

[karmic lion]

in any case I am currently tired of bobby so I'm going to go play a video game or something

somewhere with a chair that works

[coarse cedar]

couch

[karmic lion]

in retrospect it was a strategic error to have only one desk chair

[edgy flame]

what were you using to stitch screenshots together?

[karmic lion]

pixelmator and copy/paste.

very advanced technology

(it was quite tedious)

[edgy flame]

i asked it "check the weather somewhere that it's raining rn" and the LLM checked

• my city
• london
  and - seattle
  in that order, until it found that seattle had had a bit of rain in the past hour. it did not actually show a weather info card for any of them

[karmic lion]

you could probably have followed up with "show the widget" and it would've done so

It doesn't unconditionally show it, it only shows it if the model is so inclined

[edgy flame]

haha okay

right, yeah

ghosts

[karmic lion]

I do like that though

"london is famously rainy. nope"

"seattle is also famously rainy. aha!"

[edgy flame]

i think it's funny that those are the cities i asked about as well

[weary ether]

This morning I asked it for Friday's weather in another location and it followed through with a great forecast icons and all

[karmic lion]

technically it can actually also put the widget in the middle of a response, or at the end, but I have told it to not do that please.

[edgy flame]

it's sheepish about the fact that it can't make up a widget with rain on it

good pony

[karmic lion]

it's true, it can't actually control the widgets

it can only say "show the user a widget with the weather in a location"

<!WEATHER-CURRENT location=[here|place name]! units=[metric|imperial|uk hybrid]!>: embeds a weather widget showing the weather right now in the given location
<!WEATHER-SINGLE-DAY location=[here|place name] units=[metric|imperial|uk hybrid] day=[the name of a weekday, like Tuesday]!>: embeds a weather widget summarising the weather in the given location for a single day within the coming week
<!WEATHER-MULTI-DAY location=[here|place name] units=[metric|imperial|uk hybrid]!>: embeds a weather widget summarising the weather in the given location for the next three days

[edgy flame]

success!

[karmic lion]

wait there's an exclamation mark after the location

[edgy flame]

it asked if i wanted the next three days of weather, i said "sure, and if one of them is rain, show the widget for that day"

[karmic lion]

that explains why it keeps putting exclamation marks there

[edgy flame]

im continually surprised by how actually really good bobby is

[karmic lion]

amazing

[edgy flame]

and fast!

[coarse cedar]

Code magic

[weary ether]

Yeah really fast

[edgy flame]

like i'd accepted that gemini on my phone struggles with all the same tasks that google assistant on my phone struggles with (vis a vis picking the right track on youtube music, or the right location on a map) and cannot be trusted to tell me correct facts

but bobby is just really good actually

[karmic lion]

and only slightly burning down forests to achieve these things!

[edgy flame]

maybe because i don't ask it to do those specific things

[karmic lion]

That probably helps

[weary ether]

Does Bobby have instructions not to use the general knowledge base in Gemini?

Like its scope is limited to the Wikipedia entries?

[karmic lion]

It doesn't, and in fact has instructions to use its general knowledge when wikipedia fails it.

It completely disregards these instructions.

[weary ether]

Ah haha

That explains the abrupt ending to some of my conversations lol

"sorry I don't have any information about that"

[karmic lion]

I have an idea for a wording that might work better by bypassing wikipedia in the first place

I should give that a shot sometime

[weary ether]

Need a chair first though!

[karmic lion]

also, separately, by giving it better wikipedia search

a chair would be good!

sadly it will take a month

I will have to find an interim solution

it might be using my Vision Pro on the sofa.

[weary ether]

Not a bad solution at all

[coarse cedar]

i would actually use my quest 3 for multiple monitors all the time if meta remote desktop worked on linux

[edgy flame]

@wooden wedge diorite screenshots - tried to recreate a few that you had banners for

[karmic lion]

I do not think the Quest 3's resolution is remotely good enough for that use case, to be honest

The Vision Pro is barely passable

Barely.

[coarse cedar]

it was pretty good when I still used windows imho

[edgy flame]

on the upside rebbletool was really easy to install

havent tried doing sdk things but it takes a mean screenshot

[coarse cedar]

i love rebble tool

use it for all my pebble development now!

[coarse cedar]

since the spotify api calls require a specific users authorization, I am thinking of this flow

add login to spotify button to bobby config
bobby service gets auth token through redirect_uri
bobby service requests access token
service stores access token response and links it to the users timeline token

then on api requests:
service checks if the access token is still valid
if not: refresh
use token for api request

any thoughts? I dont know if I am thinking this through correctly

[edgy flame]

if a pkjs-next happens, cobble should really give some consideration to making it easier/better to log in to services through the config webview

a lot of services really don't like that - see google login being broken on kde desktop for a couple big names

tiny music

[karmic lion]

The service doesn't use timeline tokens as a key, it uses user IDs (to the extent it used anything)

[coarse cedar]

gotcha!

[karmic lion]

I think I'd rather store the tokens on the user's phone if possible.

[coarse cedar]

oh yeah, we can just query the api through pkjs

[karmic lion]

Indeed

Though then you need to do the auth flow where that's safe.

[coarse cedar]

gotcha!

i'll take a crack at implementing this :)

[karmic lion]

It is also possible the Spotify will not permit authentication through a pebble webview

[karmic lion]

(Google doesn't, for instance)

The bobby service doesn't really have long-term storage at the moment and so I am reluctant to add it.

Quota usage is stored in redis and this works but I don't love it for indefinite storage

[coarse cedar]

can confirm through the pebblify app that spotify can indeed be logged in from through a pebble webview

[coarse cedar]

great, I need to either find a implementation for sha256 or write one

[rough cliff]

It does! Back when I was trying to make a Spotify app I got the PKCE flow to successfully work. However I didn't implement refreshing tokens from Pkjs but that isn't the hard part

Whether or not it's secure is debatable

[coarse cedar]

would you happen to have that code somewhere still? 🙏

[rough cliff]

I do somewhere but it's not exactly earth shattering

It's a bog-standard PKCE flow.

[coarse cedar]

mostly wondering how you did sha256

[rough cliff]

Technically Authorization Code with PKCE but who's counting

[coarse cedar]

like thats the only thing I want to know loll

[rough cliff]

I can find it and send it over

[coarse cedar]

thanks! appreciate it

[rough cliff]

Uno momento por favor

https://gist.github.com/blockarchitech/0be83fa1294db10cde31d5815fe8b6f1

It's not exactly pretty (thought only I would use it ha) but generic enough. You should be able to modify for your needs

I tried to go through and add some simple comments on the important stuff

Also this will only work in a config page for obvious reasons

also it looks some functions are marked async, probably as relics from old revisions 🙃
It does work but you might want to, uh, fix that

I basically have not touched this in 4.5 months 🙂

[coarse cedar]

Oh wait you can use window.crypto.subtle.digest in the config?

[rough cliff]

"works on my machine" ¯_(ツ)_/¯

It is just a webview

YMMV. You should test it.

I don't exactly know the limitations of the config pages, especially on iOS. I just kind of try stuff and if it breaks, it breaks

😄

[coarse cedar]

Yeah definitely, I got caught off guard by some thing on the MDN

[rough cliff]

You could do like a window.includes crypto or something and gracefully fail

this is also off topic about

[coarse cedar]

I mean it kinda is on topic since it's about implementing Spotify for Bobby

[rough cliff]

also sessions might be more secure than localStorage, blah blah library computer or something but whatever

[rough cliff]

Bobby also uses Clay. It may not be easy to implement this around Clay

Or something worth doing

[coarse cedar]

I'm gonna try until I hit a brick wall :)

[rough cliff]

It may be easier to just link your spotify account to your Rebble account and some magic backend service uses that instead of using config pages

Also, since Bobby already does everything in the cloud, having this on your phone is pointless as it won't be at all useful

Maybe if you intercept tool calls? Not sure. Sounds interesting 😄

LMK how it goes!

[coarse cedar]

Will do!

[karmic lion]

Bobby does not do everything in the cloud

Otherwise you couldn't set alarms on your watch.

More specifically, a bobby tool can opt into being given a pair of go channels, which it can use to send messages to and from the phone.

This is the mechanism by which alarms, timers, and timeline work.

[rough cliff]

Oh interesting

I was under the impression that everything was in the cloud and the app just kind of listened. I'll do some more digging into it when I have time™️

[karmic lion]

func alarmImpl(ctx context.Context, quotaTracker *quota.Tracker, args interface{}, requests chan<- map[string]interface{}, responses <-chan map[string]interface{}) interface{} {
    ctx, span := beeline.StartSpan(ctx, "set_alarm")
    defer span.Send()
    if !query.SupportsAction(ctx, "set_alarm") {
        return Error{Error: "You need to update the app on your watch to set alarms or timers."}
    }
    input := args.(*AlarmInput)
    log.Println("Asking watch to set an alarm...")
    requests <- map[string]interface{}{
        "time":     input.Time,
        "duration": input.Duration,
        "isTimer":  input.IsTimer,
        "action":   "set_alarm",
        "cancel":   input.Cancel,
    }
    log.Println("Waiting for confirmation...")
    resp := <-responses
    return resp
}

That's the server side implementation of alarms

[rough cliff]

Very interesting

I will be sure to take a look. I do want to selfhost it to use my local llama thing (and of course add some fun hacks because why not)

[karmic lion]

Bobby implements a lot of very generic things that it then uses exactly once

The theory being that I'll come back and use them more.

And for that matter previously used more before I stripped out features like Hue light control

[karmic lion]

Reading through the rules for Spotify integration sure is an endeavour.

This part seems particularly hard to comply with:

Do not create a voice-enabled SDA that enables a user to control Spotify with their voice, or any kind of voice assistant that provides voice-control functionality.

So I think that's out the window

Disappointing, I had cool plans.

(Spotify also does human review before granting proper multi-user API access, so we couldn't just pretend to have not read the rules even if we wanted to)

[wooden wedge]

home assistant can do some music control if you have chromecast around

that has some prerequisites though, namely having that set up

[karmic lion]

That is approximately seventeen more steps than I want to put people through

The thing I can actually imagine is having an optional Bobby Companion App that does some phone control on Android. That or Cobble expanding PKJS to support a lot more things, but if the Eric App is to be the primary pebble app I'm not sure that'll help

(though if they share a PKJS implementation maybe it's fine)

Bobby Companion App is also easier to ship in the short term.

[wooden wedge]

yeah

[coarse cedar]

What a shame

[weary ether]

That's what I was thinking; companion PebbleKit app but that seems like a whole nother beast

[coarse cedar]

bobby with agentic capabilities loll

[crude patrol]

Is it possible to do this with Youtube Music as well?

[wooden wedge]

I don't think any specific service is happening

not to mention, youtube music doesn't track playback of other devices like spotify does

as annoying as it is, that's a pretty unique feature that every other service should but doesn't have

[karmic lion]

Time to add Sonos control to bobby.

Somewhat pointlessly because Sonos has its own pretty good voice assistant that controls music and has no other features

[rough cliff]

Oh interesting! This comes after I have found a Play:1 for $35 on Marketplace. I've only heard good things about them - maybe I'll pick one up 😄

[karmic lion]

Worth noting the Play:1 does not have the voice assistant because it does not have a microphone

[rough cliff]

I am more interested in voice control 🙂

[karmic lion]

😄

I may have been joking. But it should be possible and I don't think they rules prevent it

[karmic lion]

It occurs to me that Bobby Companion App for music probably doesn't make sense because it can't change what's playing, and just having verbal start/stop/skip seems not super useful

[pseudo pumice]

I think the most common music uses would be (play/pause/skip and play <given song>). I'm not sure about this, but wouldn't a lot of music players have intents for these functions? You could eventually also let the user specify specific endpoints for each of those, which they could eventually link to IFTTT of Tasker, and maybe from there they can control music in a specific way?

[karmic lion]

The first three are standardised

The last one is not.

And if you just wanted to play/pause/skip you’d probably find it easier to just use the system music app

It’s harder than “play <given song>”, too, because you need to then know what to play next. So really you want “play <album>”, “play <playlist>”, “play songs by <artist>”

I’m not a huge fan of hooks for IFTTT or similar because a) that’s a lot of hoop jumping, and also b) those platforms are so flexible that it becomes hard to express when they should be invoked.

Generally I want Bobby to be a thing that Just Works, not a thing that requires tinkering

I concede that maybe this is the wrong thing for the Pebble audience (or at least the part of the Pebble audience that is on a Discord for Pebbles), but it’s generally most in line with my philosophy

[pseudo pumice]

Yeah that makes sense to me

I assume theres no way to just forward those play commands to Google Assistant haha?

[karmic lion]

Alas, no

Though if there were I don’t know why I’d bother building Bobby in the first place 😄

[pseudo pumice]

Because I don't want to take my phone out my pocket!!

[karmic lion]

But if I could forward commands to Google Assistant I’d just forward them all to Google Assistant and the result would probably be better

And easier

[pseudo pumice]

True

[karmic lion]

A Bobby Companion App could enable the return of Hue control

I had to remove it because Hue has removed the ability to make non-HTTPS connections, but serves an invalid certificate, so I can’t connect to the hub from PKJS any more

[wooden wedge]

but no pony 🐴

[karmic lion]

(Or will remove that ability. They also removed the CORS headers from their discovery endpoint, which was the immediate problem I had, but the HTTPS thing is still pending too so it’d break eventually.)

[covert ingot]

Home assistant has been very focused on voice for the last year, and as such has a nice 'coversation API' you just throw a sentence at. But I don't know how you'd integrate that with Bobby, other than the horrible "ask Home Assistant ..."

[karmic lion]

I actually already built this

I just told it to pass the request to home assistant if it sounded like a home assistant type problem

This worked okay but at the time (2023) the home assistant voice stuff was worthless anyway

[covert ingot]

Ha, I guess that works too

[karmic lion]

Also the home assistant config turned into 50% of the config page

[wooden wedge]

it might be more useful if bobby could know ahead of time what the layout of devices in home assistant is

[karmic lion]

It’d be sort of expensive to provide that as context to every request

[wooden wedge]

since that makes it a bit clearer what it can pass forward

yeah, that's fair

[karmic lion]

I have 269 devices with 1,602 entities, apparently

[wooden wedge]

impressive

I do have 4 devices called entry at this point, I feel like I might be bad at naming things

[karmic lion]

Apparently individual solar panels on my roof are each a device

As are ten different Rivian Phone Keys

Which is impressive given I do not own a Rivian or have any Rivian apps installed

What is Home Assistnat doing

[wooden wedge]

hmmm

[karmic lion]

Three robotic vacuum cleaners

Which is more than I own

I think a primary problem with home assistant is that it is impossible to maintain a coherent universe.

[wooden wedge]

yeah, too many things are classified the same way

physical and theoretical is the same class of object in there

[karmic lion]

Anyway this is basically why I’m not sold on putting Home Assistant back: because Home Assistant is so complicated that a) I’m not convinced I can construct a worthwhile integration with the amount of effort I’m willing to spend, and also b) I don’t think Home Assistant really lives in my “just works” paradigm

[covert ingot]

That's why I was thinking conversation API, you'd just need an endpoint & api key

But I get what you're saying

[karmic lion]

But then it still probably doesn’t work because Home Assistant broadly doesn’t work

[covert ingot]

Yes, that

And judging by the subreddit, it would most likely end up being forwarded to another LLM..

[karmic lion]

Gemini please ask other Gemini to turn the light on

[finite night]

Like two parents speaking through their child at the dinner table

[weary ether]

Bobby just gave me a really good answer for information about the lunar eclipse

Told me about both lunar eclipses this year and gave me the time both in UTC and my local time

[wooden wedge]

I like it has to be pointed out when bobby is actually helpful

[wooden wedge]

oh that's bizarre, bobby straight up crashes whenever I asked it "when is it going to rain in charleston"

[edgy flame]

huuuh- thats basically what I asked it to get that screenshot

(pkjs works in cobble but it seems like location does not)

[edgy flame]

huh! reproduced over here!

[wooden wedge]

it's so weird

[edgy flame]

running cobble

[lilac plaza]

Is it possible to use our own API key to bypass the Gemini monthly limit if we have Gemini advanced in a future release? This is awesome, thank everyone who built and tested this.

[wooden wedge]

banners fresh off the presses

[karmic lion]

The weather in Charleston is violence

[edgy flame]

you can host bits of the backend yourself afaik, and swap the LLM out for whatever you'd like

one of the goals for this being a polished product is that you do not need to copy and paste api keys around

[edgy flame]

this is true, it is so hot and humid

[barren raptor]

Oh gosh what happened to that poor thing

[edgy flame]

water damage to the backlight film. Kickstarter Times are not sealed properly and some steam got under the glass. you can't see it unless the backlight is on, but it's a snowy, so the backlight is gonna be on

[karmic lion]

I can't reproduce this crash

so I guess I will not be fixing it.

the text says sunday is actually thunderstorms, but there is no thunderstorm icon

meanwhile I spent an excessive amount of effort on one line of log output for no reason.

hooray valuable choices of how to spend time

[15:56:26] assistant.c:43> Bobby 0.18 (v0.18-7-g13460a1-dirty)

[upbeat garden]

grabbing git refs always an annoying thing that should be built into build systems but basically never is

[karmic lion]

grabbing the git ref was trivial, it was getting the header to be generated that was annoying.

primarily because waf.

I eventually figured it was helpfully generating the header after the build process was complete.

[upbeat garden]

pfft

i had to do a similar thing the other day with xcode

annoying

[karmic lion]

specifically on the parenthetical. the version number just gets read out of the pebble metadata struct.

I don't even really have a use case for the tag. oh well.

[barren raptor]

I wonder if there'd be some way to get the model to recognize phonetics for place names or something

Because there's absolutely no way that the voice recognition will recognize almost any of the city names in my country

(it's almost certainly not worth it I'm just curious how feasible it would be

[edgy flame]

that'd be on the Google cloud speech end, not the model end

dictation all goes through the server first, all the pebble gets is the resulting text

[karmic lion]

I think the suggestion was that the model should be able to understand the mangled place names

[wooden wedge]

just say "hey, what's the major city north from here known for fishing", and then ask the question when it figures it out

toki pona taught me how to work with speech recognition and ais >:D

[barren raptor]

My idea was that you could spell the name out using phonetics and the model could see those words and understand that it's a place name, yeah

[karmic lion]

have you tried it?

[barren raptor]

...I have not, let's see

[wooden wedge]

I have spellt things to it before and it did get it

[barren raptor]

oh my god that actually worked

Although I'm wondering where the heck it got the Cyrillic name to show in the widget

[karmic lion]

The name in the widget is produced by reverse geocoding the actual location

so OpenStreetMap I guess

[barren raptor]

ah yeah that would make sense

osm always provides local language names

[coarse cedar]

lmaoo

[karmic lion]

I should probably ask it to produce place names in the same language as the user is using

[whole bone]

How do you do screenshots on Rebble-Tools? I know it's not related to Bobby, but it's been mentioned several times in this thread.

[karmic lion]

the usual command is pebble screenshot, so presumably rebble screenshot or whatever it's called.

[whole bone]

That's it. Thanks!

[karmic lion]

still tempted to write a screenshot program that does not involve a python.

[wooden wedge]

cobble

[karmic lion]

pass.

[wooden wedge]

it involves a lot of kotlin instead

I don't know how well you are able to upload the new banners, does the dev portal support uploading more than 1?

[covert ingot]

Yes, you can upload up to 3 per platform

[wooden wedge]

ah, I never had to upload a banner, it seemed like only one is supported

[covert ingot]

You can only upload 1 that gets used for all platforms during app submission, but up to 3 platform-specific after you've uploaded the app.

The weird behaviour during inital upload is because that's how the old command line tool we used for ~8 months worked.

I can correct that now that I have a local rws running again

[wooden wedge]

cool

[covert ingot]

This is what you get when you edit a listing

[wooden wedge]

ah yes

[covert ingot]

As fas as I'm aware, 3 is also an arbitrary limit which could be increased

[magic drift]

Putting a pin in this for later

Downloading this as my first app once the RePebble (which they better call the Rebble) releases!

[wooden wedge]

Rebble would be a bit of a conflicting name considering there's no practical association between rebble alliance and core devices (beyond being associated with pebble watches in one way or another)

[karmic lion]

I guess the release announcements are broken but I shipped a very boring update.

but the up button on the home screen does something now, so there's that.

[barren raptor]

hahahaha

that's hilarious

[wooden wedge]

that's amazing

love the look of the new banner on the store page too

[covert ingot]

Love it!

[barren raptor]

feature request: when a timer runs out, it tells you how long the timer was

[karmic lion]

A tricky one, given it would a) need somewhere to show that, but perhaps more problematically b) would actually need to know

(Timers are just alarms that show a slightly different UI)

[barren raptor]

ahh, yeah that's understandable

in terms of a place to show it I was thinking it could show up in a smaller font under the "time is up" text, but it might not be worth adding the functionality to store the time for such a niche situation tbh

[humble owl]

i think if you have multiple timers set, the time could be useful for distinguishing between which timer went off

but i don't know how often people are doing that in practice

probably not very

[barren raptor]

i asked that because I had that situation

i had a 45 minute and a 1hr15min timer, and i wanted to set a new 30 minute timer but then i realized I'd have no way of knowing which timer went off since I didn't know how much time was left before all of them

[humble owl]

if multiple timers are going to be supported, i think the time should be displayed

because without it, supporting multiple timers ends up being a confusing feature

granted, that doesn't help if someone sets eg. 2 30min timers though

named timers? i have no idea how feasible that is to do

[karmic lion]

It's not particularly confusing in most contexts where you're going to do this, where you already know which timer will expire first

[karmic lion]

adventures in AI: I told one to make it possible to view and delete reminders both verbally and using a menu. behold: https://github.com/pebble-dev/bobby-assistant/compare/main...reminders

(and by "I told" I really mean "I engaged in a several hour long conversation", which I'm not sure was easier than coding it and I'm fairly sure was more tiring.)

oh and the code it generated will not run on iOS. must remember to fix that.

there, told it to fix that.

although granted I spent a bunch of that time having it build a feature to have a delete button on the timeline, largely finished it, only to abandon it when I realised that it won't work because the timeline updates too slowly.

for the same reason I am not sure I want to ship this, since a) you can remove things from the timeline and the app will still think they're there, and b) if you remove things from the app they will not immediately be removed from the timeline

[karmic lion]

Anyone have thoughts on having reminders not be write-only? Is it worth all the ways it can fail?

[barren raptor]

imo yeah, since it's so easy to set a wrong reminder way out in the future and then there's no way to cancel it

And a wrong reminder in general, where you then will have to wait for timeline to sync

[covert ingot]

This one worked #releases message

Did yours have any characters discord might have not liked in it?

[edgy flame]

@wooden wedge do you want to drop your 18px tiny icons from Bobby in the iconography repo? i will for mine

[wooden wedge]

oh, sure

[karmic lion]

I think my conclusion here is basically that the timeline is deeply flawed and attempting to use it is a mistake.

At this point the bobby menu probably needs its own icons

[edgy flame]

we can add custom action buttons to a timeline pin, can't we?

am i understanding correctly that the problem is users can remove the reminder pin from the timeline without the app knowing it was removed? so if you delete a reminder from the timeline the app will still think it exists?

[karmic lion]

Yes, but then it'll a) duplicate the "remove" button that's already there, and also b) apparently do nothing due to timeline sync delays

I built that, realised it was terrible, and removed it again

[edgy flame]

i wonder if it would read properly to have "cancel reminder" alongside the system "remove"

alright, fair enough

[karmic lion]

The duplication is okay

The fact that it does not actually remove the reminder when pressed is unacceptable

[coarse cedar]

timeline sync every 30 seconds

[edgy flame]

ahh. the app can't remove a pin locally, it has to go through the server and remove at the next sync up-to-15 minutes later

[karmic lion]

Yup

[edgy flame]

yeah thatll do it

[karmic lion]

Same when bobby removes one that is already in your timeline, incidentally

[edgy flame]

did pebble, inc have a solution to this? did they just cloud-push timeline and hope that it was fast enough?

[karmic lion]

It'll stick around for a while, possibly including it firing

Partially: timeline sync was faster. But also not very reliable, so not really.

As indicated by the "remove" button, mostly having your own remove buttons wasn't done

The calendar and alarm pins are a special case that use a totally different mechanism

[edgy flame]

huuuuh. okay

[karmic lion]

(in fact they also use mechanisms that are different from each other)

The alarm pins are set by the watch directly onto itself

That calendar pins are set by the phone

Neither goes to a server

So they can be fast and know the actual state

But no API exists to do that as a third party app

[karmic lion]

If I'm going to have a list I also need to figure out how to render long reminders in it

[acoustic wolf]

I mean now that we have our own apps, we could probably do a JSKit API for that?

[edgy flame]

the whole-platform approach that would make sense to me is to have the watch provide a callback to whatever app or service set a pin to timeline

like, the system "Remove" button is always there, but now you can attach an HTTP push to it like you can for your own actions. Remove, And Then

you get the instant feedback on the user's watch, and your backend still gets to handle it

however, this isn't helpful for making an app right now against the old pebble phone app, also rebble's own app doesn't fully implement any of this stuff yet anyway

[acoustic wolf]

maybe i'll experiment with it

[karmic lion]

An HTTP push is pretty annoying too because it means that the storage has to live on a server, which in this case it does not

Though the alternative is to launch the app when the pin is removed, which is also no good.

[weary ether]

Bobby watch face when?

[karmic lion]

@covert ingot keeps making them

[covert ingot]

I have made so many

The generator should be live stoon then I can actually release one

[karmic lion]

maybe I should make a bobby watchface that has quotes and animations. not that I have a clue what what the quotes and animations would be

would give some value to the effort I put into that completely pointless speech bubble layout

(this is not a thing I'm likely to actually do)

[weary ether]

What I was thinking was a companion face

like, either stuff Bobby does or other relevant information

so, reminders

just have a little 'next reminder' comlication

or timer

[edgy flame]

siri-watchface-but-pebble is the dream yeah

[karmic lion]

Unfortunately this isn't actually doable because pebble apps can't communicate

So there's no way that the watchface could read what the app knows

(unless, of course, I pushed everything to a server)

[wooden wedge]

it would be kinda funny if you could ask bobby to pin something to the watchface

[karmic lion]

that'd be handy

persistent reminder

my smartglasses have this function - I can hold a button and tell them something and then they just show whatever I said persistently whenever I look up

reminders.

[wooden wedge]

nice!

[karmic lion]

(this screen was actually entirely generated by AI, I just nudged the text up three pixels. and fixed its date calculations. and now I'm going to fix the time rendering.)

[wooden wedge]

oh, I thought you meant image generation, I was going to be so impressed by that

[karmic lion]

pff

but now I will try that.

[wooden wedge]

I can't wait for Stunday and Sutuday

seom day is my favourite!

Trum 8:8:T8am

[karmic lion]

Gonna Them on Garay at 46:6(l) PM

[wooden wedge]

14t!

[humble owl]

i enjoy "reminders minder"

[wooden wedge]

mind your remind

[karmic lion]

I am once again mad that strftime has no way to emit standard US time formatting

though it has no trouble with everywhere-else-on-the-planet formatting

(in the US, the hours should have no leading zero. strftime puts a leading zero there anyway.)

Pebble has a function to do the right thing for everyone, clock_copy_time_string.

But of course the exposed version can only do the current time.

[weary ether]

right; you'd do it at the server level I guess but you're right I don't know how that would work in the Rebble setup

[karmic lion]

It would mean I'd have to actually send all these things to the server, where currently they aren't.

[weary ether]

I see

[karmic lion]

I guess I can ship that

hopefully people can figure out what their reminders are from the first couple of words and a time

[weary ether]

looks great

[karmic lion]

you can also ask it

also ask it to remove them

I feel like the bobby main menu needs icons now

[weary ether]

i guess you could just leave bobby open as if it were a watchface

[wooden wedge]

what icons

what do you need

[karmic lion]

I think a lot of them already exist

alarms, timers, reminders, quota, legal, about

alarms, timers, reminders are all system icons that presumably exist in 25x25 already

about can just be the app icon again

[edgy flame]

i have an 'about' 25px but it's a little lackluster

[karmic lion]

actually thinking about it I guess "deleted reminders" should have an action box confirmation thingy

time to remember how those work

I think it makes sense for about to be a horse

also they would all ideally be bitmaps and not pdcs because bitmaps are what a SimpleMenuLayer supports

and using a ComplicatedMenuLayer is more effort

[edgy flame]

i wish pdcs worked

[karmic lion]

there we go

[wooden wedge]

somebody should draw a horse being neuralyzed

[karmic lion]

I was going to try it on iOS to see whether that still worked, but in standard Pebble fashion, everything refuses to pair

there we go. had to factory reset the pebble, of course.

of course, now the watch is wholly unusable because firmware updates don't work.

this is the reason I gave up on using Pebbles before the company even collapsed

they just don't work.

update almost complete!

[karmic lion]

I have published a bobby update.

(once again, the releases bot has ignored it.)

but now these reminder features exist

[covert ingot]

Why does release bot hate you

What did you write in the textbox? I'll try it locally

Discord is very picky

[karmic lion]

https://apps.rebble.io/en_US/application/67c3afe7d2acb30009a3c7c2/changelog?section=watchapps

neither of the last two worked.

but every one before that did

I might guess it's related to the changes that you deployed between the last time it worked and the first time it didn't. Though don't ask me why.

[covert ingot]

Yes and no. It appears bobby's pbw is missing manifest.json

Which is upsetting pbw.py when getting the app UUID to check if it's a generated watchface

https://github.com/pebble-dev/rebble-appstore-api/blob/master/appstore/pbw.py#L98

[karmic lion]

Manifests are per-platform

bobby correctly has two manifest.jsons

[covert ingot]

So they are. It just happened the first test .pbw I downloaded also had manifest.json in the root for some reason

[karmic lion]

That's 2.x aplite

2.x is the root, 3.x is in subdirectories

[covert ingot]

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/home/will/.local/lib/python3.10/site-packages/flask/app.py", line 1473, in wsgi_app
    response = self.full_dispatch_request()
  File "/home/will/.local/lib/python3.10/site-packages/flask/app.py", line 882, in full_dispatch_request
    rv = self.handle_user_exception(e)
  File "/home/will/.local/lib/python3.10/site-packages/flask/app.py", line 880, in full_dispatch_request
    rv = self.dispatch_request()
  File "/home/will/.local/lib/python3.10/site-packages/flask/app.py", line 865, in dispatch_request
    return self.ensure_sync(self.view_functions[rule.endpoint])(**view_args)  # type: ignore[no-any-return]
  File "/home/will/Documents/rebble/appstore-api/appstore/developer_portal_api.py", line 188, in submit_new_app
    announce_new_app(app_obj, pbw.is_generated())
  File "/home/will/Documents/rebble/appstore-api/appstore/pbw.py", line 126, in is_generated
    return str(self.get_app_metadata()["uuid"]).startswith(GENERATED_ID_PREFIX)
  File "/home/will/Documents/rebble/appstore-api/appstore/pbw.py", line 98, in get_app_metadata
    app_manifest = self.get_manifest()['application']
  File "/home/will/Documents/rebble/appstore-api/appstore/pbw.py", line 89, in get_manifest
    raise FileNotFoundError("Could not find {}; are you sure this is a PebbleBundle?".format(self.MANIFEST_FILENAME))
FileNotFoundError: Could not find manifest.json; are you sure this is a PebbleBundle?

This was the error. pbw.py is sad about something and I've not altered that, other than to add this line:
https://github.com/pebble-dev/rebble-appstore-api/blob/master/appstore/pbw.py#L126

[karmic lion]

PBW takes a platform argument and does nothing useful without it.

What platform is it assuming?

[covert ingot]

aplite

We have now arrived at the "Hmm, how did this ever work" stage

[edgy flame]

ohhhhh

[karmic lion]

If it never tried to actually read any metadata, nothing would've noticed that it's assuming aplite support

[covert ingot]

Yep, I'm all caught up now

The rest of the validation process is only looking at appinfo.json

https://github.com/pebble-dev/rebble-appstore-api/pull/33/files

Fixed. Time for bed.

[karmic lion]

I'm going to add timer and alarm naming, re earlier conversation

[karmic lion]

Me: Delete my banana alarm
[Reminder deleted]
Bobby: My mistake, I can only delete reminders, not alarms. I can delete the alarm called Banana, would you like me to do that?
[Alarm canceled]
Bobby: OK, I've deleted the alarm called Banana

the AI experience

featuring:

1. Doing the wrong thing
2. Apologising and saying it cannot do the thing I asked it to do, then saying it can do the thing I asked it to do and asking whether I want it to do that
3. Immediately completing the original request without waiting for a response to the question

I think alarms and reminders having different deletion mechanisms has confused it; need to fix that.

[karmic lion]

Trying to figure out how to fit timer and alarm names into the relevant menus.

timers are easy

I guess for alarms maybe I swap it and put the title as the title and the entire alarm time as the subtitle

[karmic lion]

"cancel all my alarms"

elegant

anyway, alarm and timer naming is done

[south edge]

Katharine

[bobby-assistant:main] 1 new commit

8f7000a Give alarms and timers optional names. - Katharine

[south edge]

Katharine

[bobby-assistant:main] 2 new commits

b436e29 Improve reliability of cancelling timers/alarms. - Katharine
d2d2861 Don't tell me about timers I didn't ask for. - Katharine

Katharine

[bobby-assistant:main] 1 new commit

f669d8e Be more specific about thoughts when thinking. - Katharine

[karmic lion]

I am just stringing random words together at this point

[karmic lion]

and in the confirmations, too.

that was an exciting day of timers.

[south edge]

Katharine

[bobby-assistant:main] 2 new commits

8894889 Add a timer widget for use when asking about ti... - Katharine
2315cc2 Show the timer widget when creating a timer. - Katharine

Katharine

[bobby-assistant:main] 3 new commits

e545f31 Actually show the timer widget when creating ... - Katharine
eb7345a Unambiguous format in timer JSON response. - Katharine
d053774 Fix inadvertently changed URLs. - Katharine

[fervent steppe]

I'm doing I'm doing thank how help. thank how help.

[karmic lion]

I suppose replacing the confirmation with the widget means the model could technically lie about setting a timer

Since the model can freely produce that widget as well

But if it does that the lie detector will still fire, and I've not seen it happen

[wooden wedge]

I wonder if this timer should be centered

something bothers me about it

[edgy flame]

more margins is always the answer

get rid of that pesky info density

more seriously, 2px above the icon and 4px below the running time might help some? i feel the bother but I can't put my finger on it either

[karmic lion]

Earlier iterations were both of those things and I liked that less

[upper wind]

(Bit off topic sorry, but seeing all the screenshots in this thread reminded me why I liked building Pebble apps but in the day. The interface is just clean and great)

[karmic lion]

been trying some adventures in numeric answers

not sure how I feel about it

[edgy flame]

it's strange but it's conceptually good

[finite night]

maybe a dumb question - is it helpful in these cases to receive the answer in both formats? i like the conversational aspect of bobby replying, but it feels like you just get the answer twice

[edgy flame]

is that like, the output of the lua thing, or is it picking the most likely relevant number from the llm's output

[karmic lion]

only one of those involved a lua!

[edgy flame]

the big thing for me with the card ui specifically is that i know i can trust what is inside a card

[karmic lion]

the LLM is just telling it what to put there

[edgy flame]

so i am not big on the idea of cards the llm can populate itself

[karmic lion]

The countdown cards from above are also populated by the LLM, mind.

The weather cards are technically trustworthy but that is mostly an implementation choice because I don't trust the LLM to correctly fill in all that data.

[edgy flame]

but like a countdown card is not going to appear just because the LLM thinks there should be a countdown card

it appears because something happens outside of the fallable llm world

[karmic lion]

I originally didn't have the lines but that looked weirder.

no, the countdown card appears whenever the LLM wants there to be one

the only things it doesn't control are the ones with a stripe down the left

[finite night]

it feels like the most helpful time for there to be additional info beyond an answer in a card is the conversational response providing additional information (particularly if it's calling out an error or something, like a timer not actually being set)

[karmic lion]

It'd also be nice to get the "Bobby" heading above the number, but that is easier said than done.

[edgy flame]

huh, alright, i did not realize those were different

[finite night]

but that otherwise you're just getting the height of a mountain two different ways, for example

[karmic lion]

one of which generally requires less reading

[finite night]

yeah

i like both approaches, to be clear, and the cards/graphics are awesome

[karmic lion]

sometimes it goes particularly useless and decides to put the big number widget at the end

[edgy flame]

well i think it's great conceptually

big text walls kind of suck on pebble, so the more that we can do as not a wall of text, the better

[finite night]

yeah, i'd agree with that

[karmic lion]

what if I tell it to just not provide the conversational text where it's redundant?

[finite night]

misses out on the conversational feeling with bobby, but it does feel like the correct tradeoff in cases where a card makes sense

[edgy flame]

this is great

[karmic lion]

oh no, something went very wrong

[finite night]

what?

[wooden wedge]

theUnited

[finite night]

oh

[wooden wedge]

what even are those characters

[finite night]

bobby's poppin off

[wooden wedge]

I'm at 8% I think I don't use bobby enough

my watch is currently out of charge though so not that I really can use it

[karmic lion]

that's a fun one

huh, apparently if it doesn't generate any text I'm not allowed to continue the thread.

[karmic lion]

well I'm not sure I want to ship this number widget

I still think the idea is decent

[finite night]

i like it!

[karmic lion]

like I feel this is nicer than reading a textual answer

[finite night]

i feel like if a card like this could be paired with an icon of bobby's face (or honestly if you just put the "Bobby" header above it) that would imply bobby is serving you the answer in a similar way to the more text-heavy answers. maybe that would be worth exploring?

rather than the card completely in a vacuum, i mean

[karmic lion]

moving the bobby header is much more difficult than it sounds because it's part of the text response and not separate.

though it probably is the right thing to do

[finite night]

oh, i make no claims that any of that would be easy 😆 i always assume programming will be hard

[karmic lion]

(I can put a bobby header above the card but then it will be duplicated if it also adds a textual response)

[finite night]

could/should the bobby header be abstracted out so that it always displays above the response to a query as a whole? meaning like, if the response is going to be a card/graphic and also a more drawn out answer, the bobby header goes once above all of that?

[wooden wedge]

could those number responses have an icon of some kind I wonder

like a thermometer next to temperature

I am making this complicated aren't I

[karmic lion]

I don't think I want to go down the path of letting it pick an icon to go with its number

[karmic lion]

sometimes Bobby stops responding and starts responding again, which is weird but the dialog doesn't make much sense if it doesn't have the repeated Bobby header when it does that

[finite night]

that makes sense. so maybe the bobby header gets repeated if enough of a pause happens between messages?

but if they're fast enough back to back then it wouldn't

maybe

[karmic lion]

I do not think a time-based solution is the answer

[finite night]

that's fair

it feels sort of elegant to me - kinda like how our discord messages work. if i send them back to back they're grouped, but if enough time has passed they don't, even if no one has replied

or maybe i just hallucinated that

[karmic lion]

Time is not really the defining feature here, though.

Either way the followup response is probably going to happen less than a second later

[finite night]

so then why would it not make sense to not repeat the header? i'm not following

why is repeating the header important there, to remove the double negative ^

[karmic lion]

Because conversationally it finishes a response and then starts a new response

The header is a handy way to distinguish those

[finite night]

but again, it's the "same person horse talking" - like a discord DM. if you're not the one inputting text then the only one "speaking" would be bobby, logically

i'd defer to you though. i'm probably not thinking of an important example where it would look/be weird

to me it feels like you'd "just" put a little extra padding between subsequent responses. but that could totally look weird/bad or just be confusing

[karmic lion]

frankly the content there is completely irrelevant, it's figuring out where to put it when

whether the word "Bobby" is there is wholly inconsequential.

anyway I'm just going to ship this as-is.

speech recognition strikes again

extremely big numbers are a problem

[fervent steppe]

I think the number probably needs a 'bobby' header at least

since the 'bobby' header indicates 'LLM generated', not 'ground truth from the system'

[karmic lion]

I regret this entire affair.

[karmic lion]

okay, I have done that.

it applies to all the widgets, not just this one

conversely, setting things:

[fervent steppe]

hooray!

that looks quite good

[karmic lion]

I do prefer it

the "bobby" text is now a horrible hack and is completely unrelated to the "you" text

oh well

[south edge]

Katharine

[bobby-assistant:main] 3 new commits

0a97d8e Add a safer mechanism to override endpoints URLs. - Katharine
796620b Let the model put a big number at the top. - Katharine
66bd52e Put the "Bobby" label above widgets, not below. - Katharine

Katharine

[bobby-assistant:main] 2 new commits

d4226b1 Remove the git version stuff. - Katharine
6158e86 Bump version to 0.21. - Katharine

[karmic lion]

time to push another update

it is done. though unsurprisingly ignored by the releases bot.

Anyway, as always, let me know what you think

[karmic lion]

I guess bobby is approaching a shipping state

Still nice to have:

• a warning when you don't have a subscription
• a warning when you're using cobble
• a feedback mechanism
• icons in its main menu
• maybe announcing release notes in the app?
• a dedicated little website?

Bonus fact: the running horse animation now also appears when loading the reminders menu

[wooden wedge]

the running horse is getting some milage

or you are getting mileage out of it

[karmic lion]

It is my general purpose loading animation

[harsh brook]

Small website for a small horse?

[wooden wedge]

time to switch out spinning ball with a horse on your computer too

there's never enough horse after all

[harsh brook]

What stuff does bobby put on its homepage

Eg what would the website contain 🤔

[wooden wedge]

rotating 3d text and a lot of glitter

[harsh brook]

Doable

[edgy flame]

"check out the bobby assistant from rebble! it does these things: download on your pebble today! requires rbl sub to cover voice and gemini costs"

[karmic lion]

Basically

Probably at bobby.rebble.io or rebble.io/bobby

Release notes with pictures

[upbeat garden]

wordart

[south edge]

Katharine

[bobby-assistant:main] 3 new commits

cf9c2c7 Improve handling of unsubscribed users. - Katharine
2194e58 Move the dockerfile to the project root. - Katharine
f79b3a3 Add feedback menu item. - Katharine

[karmic lion]

new "feature", now when you have Bobby feedback you can pick 'Feedback' from the menu and it will be delivered to me (along with some debug information)

[errant python]

Anybody have a video of Bobby in action? Curious about the speed of the responses

[edgy flame]

it's pretty damn fast actually. the dictation takes longer than the llm response

[vale tangle]

Question about Bobby. How do I get it to vibrate when the timeline activates? It shows up but if I'm not looking, I'll miss the reminder.

[harsh brook]

Bobby seems very excited about being able to use reminders over timers

[karmic lion]

Hm.

[finite night]

Oh, I think that happened to me yesterday too. I got the timer error message and then I was confused when I still got a notification - realizing now that the notification was in fact a reminder

[karmic lion]

I wonder how much harder I can yell at it over this one

[south edge]

Katharine

[bobby-assistant:main] 1 new commit

efe8609 Seriously, timers. - Katharine

[karmic lion]

it looks like Bobby is also suffering from the Rebble issues

[coarse cedar]

is there such a big demand for rebble services rn?

[karmic lion]

yes, Eric linked to apps.rebble.io and it has all been down since.

[coarse cedar]

oh shit

[karmic lion]

@harsh brook @finite night I have deployed a change that hopefully fixes this, let me know how it goes

I have traced our fundamental issue back to an extremely sad postgres server that now has twice as much memory

[harsh brook]

I can only imagine a poor getting angrily berated by a horse as just is trying its best to "how help"

[sick apex]

I can imagine an incoming surge in Rebble subscriptions

[edgy flame]

this will be compsci in 2025

[karmic lion]

I mean you can see the diff

it is entirely in English

and consists of yelling at it slightly more.

[karmic lion]

I have just realised that here it thinks it set a timer, but still included the reminder warning blurb

that's fun

(if you set a reminder for less than an hour away, the response it gets back from the watch emphatically screams at it that it must include the warning.)

[karmic lion]

I have no idea, actually. Timers and alarms are extremely aggressive, but for reminders I think it's just subject to your normal notification settings, whatever those are

[covert ingot]

Unless you set a reminder at the same time as the pin, I don't believe you get notified when it becomes active

[karmic lion]

I set a notification!

https://github.com/pebble-dev/bobby-assistant/blob/main/app/src/pkjs/lib/reminders.js#L61-L77

[covert ingot]

Never mind then! 😊

[finite night]

This appears to be working now 🙂 Thanks Katharine

[karmic lion]

🎉

I was going to say it's ready to ship soon but I think Eric's news may have drowned any announcements of anything I may try to make.

I think I still need menu icons

Alarms, Timers, Reminders, Quota, Feedback, Legal, About

[sick apex]

are you going to add voice feedback to Bobby for the new Core Devices when they come?

[karmic lion]

unclear!

I have no idea how I'd get audio to the watch

but in principle, yes, if it were doable

[sick apex]

I think that would be cool, to have Bobby speaking back to you, Siri style

[karmic lion]

There is world where I rejig it all to use multimodal gemini and do straight audio in/out with no text

[hollow rivet]

Just send a PCM wave stream to the watch, easy 🙃

[sick apex]

that sounds like a pain

[karmic lion]

(and then do some ASR to get the text transcript on screen)

it is.

I could do it now if I jumped through enough hoops

well, audio in, text out

[sick apex]

eh maybe waiting to see how the audio stuff is implemented in the SDK makes more sense

[edgy flame]

have core devices said anything about putting the speaker in the SDK and/or what it will even do on the watch

[karmic lion]

they have not

[edgy flame]

have they said anything about the sdk at all

[karmic lion]

"it will use the existing one"

but a speaker that does nothing is pretty pointless so I assume there is an intent to have a plan

[edgy flame]

should ask in the ama if they plan to maintain [the sdk] or if it's left as an exercise for the rebbler

[karmic lion]

(then again the Pebble Steel LED does almost nothing, and the Pebble Time gyroscope does absolutely nothing)

[sick apex]

wdym there's like a few games that use it

like Mr. Runner or Doodle Jump

[karmic lion]

there are definitely no games that use it

[edgy flame]

that's the accelerometer

[sick apex]

oh

nevermind

[wooden wedge]

I completely forgot 💀

I can do that tomorrow unless somebody else manages to do it earlier

tomorrow is in 8-9 hours

[karmic lion]

alarms, timers, reminders are presumably just 25x25 versions of the alarm/timer/reminder icons

(though I couldn't actually find a 25x25 hourglass)

no idea what quota/feedback/legal are

I think about is a horse

possibly the app icon horse

[wooden wedge]

yeah, that might make sense

I think hourglass only existed in 80x80 in pebble icons

[karmic lion]

also maybe a bigger horse to go at the bottom of the about screen. I don't even know what it'll have other than an app version, a link to a website I haven't made, and a horse.