google sucks | Lost Ark | Page 1

delicate geyser Jan 4, 2022, 9:56 PM

#

yes

#

I see your point. But from a developers perspective, transitioning to completely new infrastructure, no matter the tests you do you will never be able to test for real world applications until it's open to the public. And a lot of steam servers are managed by third parties, so hardware change issues are actually not the fault of steam/valve.

I do see tho a lot of people way valve are evil for taking 30% split. But most people don't look at what developers don't have to pay for. Bandwidth, hard drive space, store front, anti cheat, free software updates, dev software suites, cd key management. I agree tho, google sucks. I've had three adsense accounts banned for absolutely no reason and no activity on those accounts for years then suddenly banned.

green dragon Jan 4, 2022, 9:56 PM

#

I don't mean their servers

#

I mean stuff like the TV thing

#

Or the first series of the Stream controller which iirc had a serial issue

delicate geyser Jan 4, 2022, 9:57 PM

#

tbh i never used any of those

green dragon Jan 4, 2022, 10:00 PM

#

As for bandwidth and hard drive space, those are only so expensive on public clouds. Bandwidth really isn't all that expensive otherwise. More work for sure, but the prices charged by AWS and Azure for bandwidth is just completely batshit insane

#

A single gigabit connection's equivalent usage would cost tens of thousands of dollars on those platforms, whereas a dedicated gigabit uplink is orders of magnitude cheaper...

#

And the anti cheat isn't even used in most games

#

So it's mostly the store front and maybe the community integration

delicate geyser Jan 4, 2022, 10:03 PM

#

Bandwidth definitely is expensive no matter the host. So take a look at New World for example. The release file size was 50gb. It was reported that 600,000 users were playing it at a single time. So 50*600,000 is 30,000,000gb which is 30,000tb. That's a lot of bandwidth for a single game only counting for the concurrent users not all users who downloaded it.

green dragon Jan 4, 2022, 10:03 PM

#

Google is a plague that needs to go. They kept flagging our website for sexual content and giving us links to completely random pages. They are also somehow pushing websites in two different directions at the same time. You get better search rank if your site is faster, but ads slow down your site so fuck you.

delicate geyser Jan 4, 2022, 10:04 PM

#

yeah i dont even use google analytics or adsense anymore, its a waste of time

#

if you advertise through social media you can have a greater impact on visibility than using adsense

green dragon Jan 4, 2022, 10:04 PM

#

Analytics is the other stupid one with all the ad blockers blocking it

green dragon Jan 4, 2022, 10:05 PM

#

delicate geyser if you advertise through social media you can have a greater impact on visibilit...

I earn most of my money through ads on our website but I hate every second of it

delicate geyser Jan 4, 2022, 10:05 PM

#

yep, pretty much if you rely on third party scripts to collect data on users, the majority of it gets blocked by default in most browsers these days. its outdated

#

yeah i dont rely on ads but one of my websites is a business with subscriptions for our services so we dont have to use any sort of third party bloatware

green dragon Jan 4, 2022, 10:07 PM

#

delicate geyser Bandwidth definitely is expensive no matter the host. So take a look at New Worl...

Honestly, that kind of download is beyond the concern for most studios except the AAA ones

#

And MMOs manage it even though they are rarely downloaded via Steam, what with their self patchers

green dragon Jan 4, 2022, 10:08 PM

#

delicate geyser yeah i dont rely on ads but one of my websites is a business with subscriptions ...

I envy you. Ads suck. But users don't really want to pay for content...

#

Just look at the state of YouTube

delicate geyser Jan 4, 2022, 10:09 PM

#

true, mine is different though, we offer services to other businesses that make their day to day operations much easier

green dragon Jan 4, 2022, 10:09 PM

#

Also I'm contractually obligated to ask you if you are interested in NordVPN, the premium se-

#

Drakan_Laughing

green dragon Jan 4, 2022, 10:10 PM

#

delicate geyser true, mine is different though, we offer services to other businesses that make ...

B2B is the dream

#

I'm never again dealing with end users, nuh-uh

delicate geyser Jan 4, 2022, 10:10 PM

#

lol

green dragon Jan 4, 2022, 10:11 PM

#

Sadly for now I'm stuck with them

#

sigh

delicate geyser Jan 4, 2022, 10:12 PM

#

i got lucky, i actually wrote a website for my moms company to help with all the different books things were written in and it sort of evolved from there. what made it blow up though is having canam/brp seeing my work and wanting to buy it out but instead we struck a deal on a partnership. now we serve over 4000 businesses across the usa and over 1200 in the rest of the world

#

lol spelling errors, typing with gloves on is not easy

green dragon Jan 4, 2022, 10:13 PM

#

That sounds like big bucks and relatively low effort to maintain

delicate geyser Jan 4, 2022, 10:14 PM

#

its fair money but at the same time there is still a lot of day to day work done. i ended up hiring several developers to assist in developing the website, mobile app, and now we are working on our own proprietary rf scanner software

green dragon Jan 4, 2022, 10:14 PM

#

Meanwhile I'm operating a Web serial reading platform with some hundreds of thousands of monthly users. I've long given up on counting them

delicate geyser Jan 4, 2022, 10:15 PM

#

i feel ya, i threw together a website for new world to keep track of watermarks then new world decided to negate it and displays it to the player now. at peak i think i had just over 140k database entries

green dragon Jan 4, 2022, 10:15 PM

#

Can't count the users, too many tracking blockers and can't rxaclty force users to log in...

delicate geyser Jan 4, 2022, 10:15 PM

#

by far that was the most spaghetti code ive ever written, i just wanted something to work for me and my friends lol

green dragon Jan 4, 2022, 10:15 PM

#

Haha

delicate geyser Jan 4, 2022, 10:16 PM

#

you can get a rough estimate through unique visitors

green dragon Jan 4, 2022, 10:16 PM

#

Sounds like my Discord bot

delicate geyser Jan 4, 2022, 10:16 PM

#

i hate discord bots

#

the original bot we had for this server i wrote it, it was the first bot i ever made and the first time i ever did anything with nodejs

#

it was bad

green dragon Jan 4, 2022, 10:16 PM

#

delicate geyser you can get a rough estimate through unique visitors

You can count the unique IPs, but can't really rely on anything else. Google Analytics mis-counts by like half

delicate geyser Jan 4, 2022, 10:17 PM

#

yeah but if you have something like cpanel access you can collect that info yourself

green dragon Jan 4, 2022, 10:17 PM

#

I have all the things

#

Not cpanel

#

Fully custom arch on Kubernetes

delicate geyser Jan 4, 2022, 10:17 PM

#

i've got both cpanel and whm so tracking is stupid easy for me

green dragon Jan 4, 2022, 10:17 PM

#

Money doesn't grow on trees to rely on managed stuff

#

Ads pay fuck all money

delicate geyser Jan 4, 2022, 10:18 PM

#

i host my own servers, i just licensed software to help make it easier

green dragon Jan 4, 2022, 10:18 PM

#

Oh that. Eh. Kubernetes, ClickHouse, some elbow grease and C#

delicate geyser Jan 4, 2022, 10:19 PM

#

that was a hard part tho, leasing server boxes across the world and figuring out how to deploy and update deployments across multiple regional servers and serve users from the closest server to them

#

i had never done it before and screwed it up multiple times but figured it out in the end

green dragon Jan 4, 2022, 10:20 PM

#

Yeah I don't bother with that, don't have to. I'd just automate deployment with Azure Devops or something

#

Or use one of those Kubernetes native things

delicate geyser Jan 4, 2022, 10:20 PM

#

yeah i probably should but i like having full control and full understanding how each gear in the machine works

green dragon Jan 4, 2022, 10:21 PM

#

I do! But that doesn't mean I want to reinvent the wheel

delicate geyser Jan 4, 2022, 10:21 PM

#

also part of it is that a lot of services like aws, azure etc make a fair few parts of their services overly complicated and i have the power to simplify it to how i want it to work and function

green dragon Jan 4, 2022, 10:22 PM

#

Plus the ridiculous pricing

delicate geyser Jan 4, 2022, 10:22 PM

#

yeah im not paying a premium for something i can learn myself to do easier

green dragon Jan 4, 2022, 10:23 PM

#

It's worse than that

delicate geyser Jan 4, 2022, 10:23 PM

#

plus if something goes wrong i dont have to rely on a person i dont know to try and find the issue, where as for me if something goes wrong i know where the problem is and can address it immediately

green dragon Jan 4, 2022, 10:24 PM

#

So some math and benchmarking

#

We used to use Azure because we had free credits from an accelerator program

#

And we had the chance to run some numbers

#

Turns out, the performance equivalent of an 8 core Ryzen 7 3700X is something like a 32 vcore Azure VM

#

Such a VM would run you $1300/month unreserved, $771 1 year reserved or $500/month 3 year reserved. It comes with very little persistent storage on its own and metered bandwidth. In contrast, a 3700X Ryzen server from Hetzner is 54 Euros a month, with an unmetered 1Gbit internet connection...

green dragon Jan 4, 2022, 10:28 PM

#

delicate geyser plus if something goes wrong i dont have to rely on a person i dont know to try ...

Not only that, but if you use a managed service like Azure App Service, you are also stuck in a sandbox with no way to externally prod your application to figure out what's going on

delicate geyser Jan 4, 2022, 10:28 PM

#

lol you dont want to know my monthly server costs

green dragon Jan 4, 2022, 10:28 PM

#

Enlighten me!

#

I know the cost of MangaDex, you can't overshoot that easily kanakek

#

It's always fun to learn about how other services are put together

delicate geyser Jan 4, 2022, 10:33 PM

#

alone our european servers run us around $9000~ monthly, north america is near double that

green dragon Jan 4, 2022, 10:34 PM

#

That's a loooot of boxes

#

collocated or rented?

#

... Why do you even need that much capacity? Drakan_Thinking

delicate geyser Jan 4, 2022, 10:37 PM

#

in our services we separate servers for web, mobile and cached data

green dragon Jan 4, 2022, 10:39 PM

#

That sounds like a lot of very underused servers

green dragon Jan 4, 2022, 10:41 PM

#

delicate geyser i feel ya, i threw together a website for new world to keep track of watermarks ...

I've underestimated the level of jank I'll admit

#

Holy crap

#

Not only is it PHP (and raw PHP at that?) but the header itself links to index.html instead of php...

#

And there is no home page...

delicate geyser Jan 4, 2022, 10:43 PM

#

lol

green dragon Jan 4, 2022, 10:43 PM

#

I mean, why would you even PHP in 2021...

delicate geyser Jan 4, 2022, 10:43 PM

#

we use it

#

its still relevant

#

and not everyone needs a react or vue system

green dragon Jan 4, 2022, 10:44 PM

#

I can't name a single good reason to use PHP other than legacy reasons...

#

I don't mind server-side, mind you

#

Perfectly legit, that

#

But

#

Even for server-side, I see little reason not to use Node, .NET or Go

#

In the past 5 years I've only installed one single PHP service on our servers (with adequate paranoia) and it got hacked in like 6 months...

delicate geyser Jan 4, 2022, 10:49 PM

#

ive been working with php for over 15 years, have never had a single issue but each persons experience is different.

#

youd be surprised too at how many websites are still coded in java

green dragon Jan 4, 2022, 10:51 PM

#

Oh I know, especially in the enterprise space

#

Java has some... questionable decisions

#

See: Log4J

#

KEK

#

And just deserialization in Java in general

delicate geyser Jan 4, 2022, 10:53 PM

#

tbh i prolly wouldnt be on php anymore but i simply dont have the time to recode it. i wrote my own custom mvc which i really like and its not bloated like laravel is

green dragon Jan 4, 2022, 10:54 PM

#

It's beyond me why Java allows deserializing executable classes

green dragon Jan 4, 2022, 10:54 PM

#

delicate geyser tbh i prolly wouldnt be on php anymore but i simply dont have the time to recode...

Well that's something at least. Still, dependencies in PHP are... Ugh...

#

The fact that dependencies are raw PHP files in a vendor subfolder make me f-ing terrified

delicate geyser Jan 4, 2022, 10:55 PM

#

thats why you dont have that public facing, but far too many people dont understand tht

green dragon Jan 4, 2022, 10:55 PM

#

Or that file execution policy is entirely on the web server

green dragon Jan 4, 2022, 10:57 PM

#

delicate geyser thats why you dont have that public facing, but far too many people dont underst...

I mean sure, you can put a .htaccess in the vendor folder to deny access, but then someone runs it with FPM and oh oops now your vendor is public

delicate geyser Jan 4, 2022, 10:57 PM

#

or dont put it in public_html/www

green dragon Jan 4, 2022, 10:57 PM

#

But then you can't execute it, can you

#

Unless things have changed, last time I checked you couldn't require files outside the web root

delicate geyser Jan 4, 2022, 10:58 PM

#

you can

#

afaik the only instances where you cannot is on virtualized servers and on "the cloud"

green dragon Jan 4, 2022, 11:01 PM

#

Ah apparently it's a Windows thing

#

I used to manage PHP on Windows for a while

#

Which causes permission issues

#

Also here is a fun read https://mangadex.dev/mangadex-v5-infrastructure-overview/

MangaDex DevBlog

Infrastructure overview

Handling millions of daily users efficiently and securely does not happen by chance, here's some what goes into it.

#google sucks