Archer Changes

[winged cipher]

If somebody were to get kicked, I rather it be random

[lost hill]

actively trolling people and dodging points in order to intetionally anger people... should result in a kick..

[real wing]

Why was I pinged

[worn marsh]

Did I not provide 15+ ways to put lethal pressure on Archers?

[winged cipher]

Toxicity should warrant a kick and a timeout

[brazen olive]

Idk if he's trolling, he's trying to argue his points lol

[worn marsh]

LOL It autocorrected

[brazen olive]

Whether they're good or not is another matter

[ruby adder]

These threads can get locked when things get too personal so I suggest you take a little breather. This ain't worth it.

[lost hill]

you actually didnt... you gave me 1..

[worn marsh]

What wasn't lethal pressure?

[winged cipher]

I think it’s a case of irony not being ironic

[inner pecan]

I will give Keeper this. This is the first time he actually being chill cause other threads he was toxic lol

[lost hill]

notice how many threads get locked due to people not debating in good faith... and its consistantly the same people.... yet theyre continued to be allowed to sabotage new threads.

[winged cipher]

Um

[worn marsh]

Who sabotaged this besides 2 people with personal insults and calls for censorship?

[lost hill]

notice that personal insults didnt start... until you came in and started "debating" by saying that i just just equip my pocket catapult. and pull it out when i need to deal with an archer...

[winged cipher]

this is sad

not even funny sad. Just, embarrassing

[chrome kraken]

agree to disagree

or settle it in a 1v1

[worn marsh]

They started when I presented nicely my answer in a respectable fashion to Ziggy and you. I asked you both to act like adults through countless insults and stay on topic.

I have been nice and even re-answered your request for "Lethal pressure for Archers" . Maybe take a minute to realize it is your being toxic and the issue?

[lost hill]

youre right.. it is sad. we had a group of people attempting to improve the game for EVERYONE... and people come in to sabotage that progress because they cant accept the fact that theyre abusing a class that doesnt have enough healthy counterplay for it to be fair...

[ruby adder]

Just tone it down and keep it civil, look in your own bowl

[lost hill]

no you didnt answer me

[worn marsh]

I didn't just give you 15+ Lethal ways to pressure Archers like you asked for?

[lost hill]

nope you didnt.. you gave 1.

[worn marsh]

1 list of 15 ways yes

[inner pecan]

You realize everyone is talking about how toxic your being? You need to take a chill pill.

[unreal patrol]

Excuse me yolo

[chrome kraken]

shield

[unreal patrol]

Can you like, help not get this thread locked?

[chrome kraken]

all i gotta say

[lost hill]

no.. out of that list.. 1 of them (which was 3 combined)... was a viable counter to archers.

[worn marsh]

You asked for Lethal Counters correct? You didn't ask for 100% Viable ones. That is different.

[chrome kraken]

theres always dms

[winged cipher]

Be ready to step in just in case lad. *

[unreal patrol]

Id rather not have my thread locked because a bunch of shitheads keep using it as their personal insult ground. @ruby adder

[worn marsh]

Mirror

[lost hill]

i asked for counters.. which implies viable...

[chrome kraken]

you could go to dms considering how off topic this went

[worn marsh]

Which one can you not do?

[chrome kraken]

well not off topic

but heated

and its something only between yous

[winged cipher]

Shit I should’ve jumped ship by now.

Later! 🪢

[ruby adder]

I am not responsible for locking threads I am just reminding folks of prior incidents

[lost hill]

i cant pull a catapult or a ballista out wherever i need one

i cant throw a firepot as far as a bow can loose an arrow

i can get in melee range against an archer that is positioned well (that applies to like 3 of your points"

[unreal patrol]

#1107783539501568092 message

[unreal patrol]

Oh I know but I am hoping you can stop people from getting this thread locked.

[brazen olive]

It's only 2 problem people

[unreal patrol]

Because all it takes is for Keeper to come in and start problems for this thread about actual changes to get shut down

[chrome kraken]

read that earlier but i meant like it as its current state (not in response to your post btw)

[worn marsh]

But they are viable options correct?

[lost hill]

its really only one. i'll return to civil when people dont just repeat themselves over and over and ignore counterpoints.

[brazen olive]

Or you could be a bigger person and be civil regardless

[unreal patrol]

So the best way to disagree with someones feedback thread, would be to cause so many problems in it that it gets locked.

[worn marsh]

I presented valid options and you tried to get me censored, personally insulted me and told others to avoid talking to me. Please act like an adult.

[brazen olive]

You're making it worse when you spur him on

[ruby adder]

I am trying to, right here. I also suggest you two really try hard not to interact with each other

[lost hill]

you didnt provide a valid option

i have pointed out the flaws with you "options" SEVERAL TIMES

[unreal patrol]

I think some people should be taken out because its impossible to have a civil discussion with some others.

[worn marsh]

I have been nothing but nice here.

[lost hill]

no. youve been nothing but unreceptive.

[unreal patrol]

Some people dont intent to have discussions.

[unreal patrol]

lol

[worn marsh]

No you tried to say "While valid, they don't work 100% of the time and not what I want".

[unreal patrol]

lmao

[worn marsh]

I personally insulted you? link it

[lost hill]

link it.

[unreal patrol]

Yolo im begging you here.

[tepid hinge]

Keep being salty bout my suggestion I like living rent free in your head. Your ideas are horrible.

[worn marsh]

When you said "Map Specific" is that not what you are saying? That Yes it is lethal but not 100% available?

[final orbit]

archer mains like these are prime examples of why school bullying should be encouraged

[unreal patrol]

Then why does it have so many upvotes but yours had over 100 downvotes?

[lost hill]

no. im saying that its not viable. because you cant control the frequency..

[worn marsh]

Viable means it can work not that it works everywhere. Just where it can be used.

[unreal patrol]

Dude, why are you still doing this

You should've listened to me to begin with, all you've done is derailed the thread.

I told you there was no winning with this guy but you went for it anyway

[worn marsh]

LOL now he is trying to eliminate debate

[lost hill]

ive won 10 times over. the kid is too ignorant to even understand that.

[brazen olive]

🙄

[tepid hinge]

The community is a bunch of toxic users. Those thumbs ups are probably you lovers lol.

[worn marsh]

So you understand why it is viable and your using that word incorrectly?

[brazen olive]

This is certainly productive

[inner pecan]

https://tenor.com/view/choujeki-eating-popcorn-gif-14739088

[brazen olive]

Lmao

[lost hill]

when you have to split hairs and debate the definition of the word in order for your point to hold up... youve lost the debate.

[unreal patrol]

I think Torn Banner needs to improve their method of feedback collection, this shit isnt working.

[worn marsh]

When you use the word viable incorrectly it is my fault?

[brazen olive]

Can we get random and keeper their own quarantined thread?

[chrome kraken]

average chiv community

[worn marsh]

We are the only 2 talking about the topic lmao

[lost hill]

because the mods dont step in when someone is actively trying to sabotage a thread.

[brazen olive]

Yall scared everyone off

[chrome kraken]

get a room

[inner pecan]

I kid you not this is how Archer threads usually go down. Other threads are actually fine from what i seen.

[worn marsh]

sorry for debating in the debate thread

[unreal patrol]

Mr Electric send them to the time out corner and have them timed out.

[brazen olive]

I'll say keeper has been more respectful than random, dude is just shitting on everyone today

[rocky perch]

Can all of you please keep the conversation related to the topic, in a respectful way

[worn marsh]

I presented everything he asked for here in a respectful way. Not sure why Ziggy is getting worked up here.

[chrome kraken]

try to lessen the heat (and possibly try not to slur) and that would be just awesome

[lost hill]

no.. i get annoyed when people bring up a point.. and actively ignore the counterpoint in order to feign victory.

[tepid hinge]

Or that this community is filled with toxic ego users that always think they are and if any disagree they get insulted.

[unreal patrol]

Matt I mean this as politely as I can. If asking them nicely was an option, it would've happened already.

[worn marsh]

Slur? Where on earth have I slurred anyone?

[chrome kraken]

just a warning for the future of this thread

[brazen olive]

Arch*r

[chrome kraken]

i seen things

[worn marsh]

LOL nobody in this thread is worth an insult

[unreal patrol]

Hasn't stopped you.

[worn marsh]

Mirror

[unreal patrol]

@brazen olive I told you, these people make you look bad.

[brazen olive]

Well according to random I was acting like keeper

So idk

[worn marsh]

Presenting facts will do that

[unreal patrol]

Random, KC Joker and Keeper, all archer players...

[lost hill]

because you were repeating the same point over and over, without addressing the counterpoint.

[unreal patrol]

😔

There truly is no winning.

[brazen olive]

I appreciate your efforts. I think we need a new thread with groundwork and rules laid out

[lost hill]

now which one of us 3 is FOR changing the game to be healthier for all involved?

[brazen olive]

And actual moderation plz

[chrome kraken]

hate on the archers, not the players playing them 💪

[tepid hinge]

Excuse me no this happens on every post and now a mods wants to chime in because Ziggy cant handle what they dish out.

[unreal patrol]

I think another thread of this kind would turn to the same thing as the same people come back.

[worn marsh]

I bet if 2 people left personal insults out it would be fine.

[brazen olive]

Idk why the moderators are so hands off? Calling someone braindead should be a quick and easy mute

[unreal patrol]

I think the problem is that wherever there is food, there are ants, and we don't have any ant killer.

[chrome kraken]

feels like we’re playing oh sir at this point

[worn marsh]

Because it was directed at me is why it is ok.

[unreal patrol]

The guy whos been muted the most in this discord? Color me surprised.

[final orbit]

Imagine being a mod having to read all this shit

[inner pecan]

Honestly i really starting to think it comes down to this discord that if your buddy buddy with mods nothing happens to you

[brazen olive]

They do it for free 💀

[lost hill]

if the people who actively sabotage threads by ignoring counterparts werent allowed to be involved.. it might change.

[final orbit]

Sounds like mental illness lmao

[worn marsh]

It's neat to see toothless insults though. When they do that instead of addressing my post it shows their maturity and how their talking points failed.

[tepid hinge]

@rocky perch I had to close my thread because ziggy, random and another user was getting toxic and insulting users because they didnt agree. You mods didnt do anything.

[unreal patrol]

Keeper has been muted more than any person I can think of in here for insulting, berating, hostility and other things I'm sure (im not his babysitter). He also plays the victim often so the moderators are aware of it.

He who throws rocks should not live in glass houses.

[worn marsh]

Stop insulting me and trying to instigate man. You aren't worth it

[final orbit]

Keeper, take your meds

[inner pecan]

Well your the issue too thats the thing. Keeper actually didnt do anything in this thread but you and random are very toxic from what i seen

[unreal patrol]

That's not an insult, its a statement of things to happen.

[worn marsh]

No meds here, sorry.

[final orbit]

That explains a lot

[worn marsh]

Sorry I am healthy, sick burn though.

[brazen olive]

Pls stop

This is how you drive everyone off

[tepid hinge]

I have tried to report the mods for playing favorites on here apparently tb doesnt care either.

[lost hill]

ill admit. i can get hostile.. but i only get hostile, when a direct approach doesnt work

if someone takes something from you... and no matter how many times you say "can i please have that back".. and they refuse.... you have to resort to different methods in order to get your point across

also saying "he didnt do anything wrong"... is intentionally trolling and thread sabotage not something that should be punished?

[unreal patrol]

<@&209842743046832128> holy shit someone do your fucking jobs already, its no wonder none of this feedback ever works, go ahead and time me out for this ping if need be but at least do fucking something.

[final orbit]

Mentally healthy archer main chronically online. Sure lmao

[unreal patrol]

These people are just insulting eachother nonstop

[worn marsh]

Is that an insult?

[unreal patrol]

Why is nothing getting done

[steady peak]

What job

The hell is going on anyways?

[worn marsh]

Dude came in here instigated and then asked for Mods to fix it?

[lost hill]

TLDR. thread derailed due to sabotage

[brazen olive]

Thread derailed cause people can't be civil

ANd mature

[tepid hinge]

You started insulting users first dont play victim now.

[brazen olive]

Okay at this point just mute us all 💀

[steady peak]

As a feedback thread, we'd appreciate it if you could use it as such. If you got issues with individual users, take it to DMs please...

[brazen olive]

Nothingburger

[vernal fjord]

Archer= peasant pathetic weak little shiet the juice of a trash can

[lost hill]

it doesnt matter how mature and civil you are. if you have someone who is debating in bad faith and actively ignoring points..

it doesnt matter how civil you are.

[brazen olive]

So having good arguments but being an asshole is fine?

Bet

[worn marsh]

It depends on the person

[steady peak]

It takes strength of character to drop a conversation that seems to have no end to it. Please exercise yours right now and let it be. My plants and myself would very much appreciate it.

Thank you and have a Chivalrous day!

[late forum]

The archer mains have arrived

[brazen olive]

Oh nvm keeper is gone 💀

[fathom aurora]

(again)

[inner pecan]

But random isnt in timeout when he was the worse of the 3. Thats nuts

[fathom aurora]

he is

[brazen olive]

Oh good

[inner pecan]

oh yeah it just updated

[brazen olive]

Thank you mods!

[white osprey]

As a reminder, please block users you do not wish to engage with. Thank you 👍

[brazen olive]

Ziggy down too 💀

[fathom aurora]

at least the thread is still open, I do think archers being able to pressure other archers more would be healthy for the game

at least warbow should 1 shot an overhealed archer

[brazen olive]

It'll pick up again eventually, hopefully with less shit slinging

[inner pecan]

Well tbh they already can pressure each other it was just more on the matter of the skill the archers have in order to deny enemy archers from harassing your teammates

[inner pecan]

How much is over heal i forget

[fathom aurora]

100 total, warbow does 94 damage to archers

and since you never take damage, most archers will probably have overheal

[inner pecan]

I could agree on adding that extra bonus 6 damage to 1 shot over heal archers

[inner pecan]

Yes most the time cause i do know with the time i had playing TO most archers are usually chilling back and then you get some dare devils actually sticking with objective helping to push.

But for Longbow and Crossbow to 1 shot archers would be way too much

[rocky perch]

all bow does oneshot overhealed archer to the head, not sure if we should make warbow torso shot one shot overhealed archers too

I feel like having it stay as it is would encourage headshots more

[brazen olive]

Warbow is already the best archer primary, if you were to buff it the others would need to be somehow better in their niches

Also it promotes the sitting way in the back playstyle that yall hate more than any other weapon

Or nerf some other aspect of it if you're gonna buff the dmg

[ruby adder]

When it is blatantly obvious what the best weapon is (warbow) that's what skilled archers will use. I'd like to see some improvements for longbow and crossbow to encourage picking those more

[brazen olive]

Based

[fathom aurora]

crossbow as a class is pretty good with banner

[brazen olive]

But I'm a skilled archer and I use the longbow so you wrong there 😎

[rocky perch]

skilled archer that uses longbow? that's like an endangered species

[brazen olive]

My favorite was the shortbow in chiv 1, longbow is the closest thing

[rocky perch]

I've seen some arguements that xbow is better, personally I use warbow too tho

[ruby adder]

It's as rare as someone preferring the 2h hammer over grand mace, the better choice

[rocky perch]

2hh has reach

[ruby adder]

Xbow I don't think is as bad as some folks make it out to be

[brazen olive]

Xbow is good but largely cause they have banner and axe

[ruby adder]

Banner def carries it though

[brazen olive]

Also the jumpshots and +dmg to knights and footmen

I don't like brazier

[fathom aurora]

I mean you can jump shot with other classes, it's just not free stamina

[brazen olive]

As a longbow user it limits your positioning too much, and the potential FF dmg is no bueno

Jumpshotting with a bow will nuke your stam tho if you're holding the arrow for longer than a sec

[inner pecan]

From what people told me that use crossbow over Warbow is cause they dont have to worry about draw back stamina issues and can constantly aim till they feel like they have the perfect shot. Also i think the crossbow does more damage to knights and footman then war bow

[tall heron]

No one does

[brazen olive]

Warbow users are prolly pretty content with it

[inner pecan]

I like using it with Longbow and put a lot of people on fire lol

[tall heron]

Standing still as an archer you’re better off not using it

[fathom aurora]

i just realised polehammer net doesnt have bow stats

[rocky perch]

xbow deals 75 body shot to knight

[fathom aurora]

put it next to cover, so you can pass by it as you move in and out of cover

[rocky perch]

so less for footmen, more for knight

[rocky perch]

nah brazier sucks

way too situational

[ruby adder]

Unmatched durability moment

[rocky perch]

and the brazier fire is pretty much a "shoot me" signal flare to other archers

[brazen olive]

I don't like it, but warbow archers are going to sit in one position more than longbow archers

So I see it being better on them

When I'm right behind my frontline as a longbow archer and I throw a brazier down, it's gone the second my frontline crumbles

So either I throw it down in the back and gamble on whether I shoot teammates or not, or I just don't use it

[rocky perch]

I'll usually only position myself in one spot if it's a chokepoint, like bridges and gates

[inner pecan]

I always used the Brazier as cover when i decide to use it

[rocky perch]

I just use spike trap for that

[inner pecan]

or that too yeah

[ruby adder]

Yeah it can be used as like a mini pavise almost

[brazen olive]

Spikes are more useful than brazier 🗿

Height advantage

[rocky perch]

fr

[inner pecan]

combine the both

[tall hound]

Brazier weirdly useful to block melee swings too

[rocky perch]

pavise is another thing that makes xbow so good

portable cover

cuz spike trap can actually have arrows go through sometimes

[inner pecan]

Yeah its actually pretty amazing

[tall hound]

Just needs to count for assists when other archers light their arrows on it (unless this was added and I missed it)

[rocky perch]

not a thing

would be nice tho

[inner pecan]

Should make a thread on that

[rocky perch]

brazier doesn't even give the +20 burned point iirc

[tall hound]

Here is a good place since the thread is about general Archer changes, will try to remember to remind OP about it to see if they want to add it to the original post.

That way we can keep all archer change discussion to one thread

[ruby adder]

Fire arrows damaging buildables might be interesting, they are typically wooden after all

Just not objectives

[brazen olive]

A group of archers using a single brazier is cool but encouraging archers to group around a small area is a bad idea in practice

Unless there's no flank routes whatsoever

[fathom aurora]

no, no, encourage that 🙂

[brazen olive]

Lmao

[tall heron]

Yeah this game needs more fire

And arrows

[inner pecan]

Flaming Catapults

[tall heron]

Oil potting the vip isn’t enough

[brazen olive]

Flaming chicken unironically op

[tall heron]

20 dmg jab

[inner pecan]

Flaming Chicken?????

[brazen olive]

Yes, grab a chicken and light yourself on fire

[tall heron]

I miss when the drumstick used to light on fire

[brazen olive]

You now have a perpetually alight chicken that does high dmg and puts a dot on enemies when you jab

[inner pecan]

wtf no way lol. I wish i known about that

[tall heron]

[inner pecan]

I usually just go ambusher and get a sausage to go light archers on fire

[tall heron]

There’s a whole ass emote for it

[tall heron]

There’s no live chickens on FFA maps

[inner pecan]

I know i play TO here and there.

Have 300 matches at the moment for TO

[tall heron]

You never see anyone 300 lvl and above running around with a chicken jabbing? It’s a classic

[inner pecan]

Honestly no i never see it. Thats why i was shocked it was a thing

[tall heron]

Drumstick used to light on fire but they buffed it on Aberfell update

[fathom aurora]

you don't have to light yourself on fire too 🤣

[brazen olive]

Haha well that's how I always did it, just walking over a sconce or campfire

[fathom aurora]

yeah you can just put the chicken over the fire

[tall heron]

Jab a brazier

[inner pecan]

Actually does that work using brazier to light them on fire?

[fathom aurora]

any that will light you on fire

[tall heron]

Chickens yes

[inner pecan]

thats dope lol

[fathom aurora]

there's a few special ones about that map that have cold flames or something

[past elm]

@rustic elk if you're so insistent on doing the "omg I have hundreds of hours with this, I can't be wrong", then I guess I have to summon him

@worn marsh

There, now I got an archer guy with a thousand hours to refute you

[ancient kayak]

Honestly, I think archers are pretty mediocre. All 3 classes are probably the 3 classes with less impact in a match.

I understand that it can be frustrating to die to an archer with little to none counter play. But that is not entirely true. The way you position yourself, move around and the more space awareness you have, the less you are going to get shot from an archer. Besides that, it´s pretty damn hard to hit an arrow compared with other fps or bow and arrow games. It takes a long time for the arrow to travel, movement from players are usually really random.

If the aim assist from consoles was nerfed I thing we would see less frustration from this topic. If archers are only useful to kill archers, whats the point of them anyway?

Btw, I´m not an archer players. Fuck those rats

[brazen olive]

He is currently in timeout 😂

[past elm]

lmao again?

[rustic elk]

tl;dr i said aim assist is bad on console until you're too close to be safe without a melee weapon in hand
and at that point ur assuming ur quickshotting, not charging the bow to deal a decent amount of damage

that said
miss me with this fucking dumpster fire of a channel

[fathom aurora]

for this very thread

[rustic elk]

checks out

i'll see you on the other side lol keeper

[past elm]

I genuinely didn't mean to post that in here, lmao, don't know how I got here

[rustic elk]

it happens lol
i love the pfp btw

[rustic elk]

btw the only reason i brought that up is bc i see people who don't play archer at all trying to argue about which platform it's better on, when i learned on console, switched to pc, and double or tripled my score instantly

i normally wouldn't 😅

[tall heron]

You don’t have to be in melee range for aim assist to be good

[silent cipher]

replace the war bow with the quarterstaff

[rustic elk]

you have to be too close to safely use the warbow or to reload the crossbow

in order to swap to your secondary you need to finish your animation

the warbow has a slower draw and it takes longer than the bow to cancel, which gives the warbow a higher minimum range

the crossbow can be stowed very quickly, but you can’t reload it within a certain distance of a skirmish or an enemy

aim assist is only useful within that unsafe range, and it only works as well as y’all think it does if you’re drawing and firing at once

in other words, charging the arrow means losing that easy hit

and the moment the arrow starts having travel time, you have to lead and the aim assist loses its value

i got so fucking tired of fighting it to hit my shots that i turned it off

because even if you’re third partying, you have to put your cursor where they’re going to be, which is so easy when you’re using a mouse that i went from consistently sitting at the bottom of the leaderboard in my archer games to sitting at the middle in my average games

[tall heron]

Fighting it because you’re actually aiming

If you took the time to let it aim for you

[rustic elk]

people move really weird when they’re fighting, and it’s genuinely hard to hit people even up close if they’re fighting

you have to charge the bow to deal significant damage
uncharged shots are only for finishing ppl off

idk how much an uncharged shot deals relative to a charged one, but it’s really really bad

and to be in quickshot range (imma call aim assisted uncharged shots quickshots) u have to be closer than is safe

[rustic elk]

you can’t take time with quickshots
like you straight up click the input and watch the animation go through

so you have this attack that’ll generally land at a very close range to deal a small amount of damage, at the cost of doing all of your archer shit worse

more on that in a few, i just got off of work

[tall heron]

When someone thinks the aim assist is a hindrance you know they are lost

It takes no skill to just sit back while not even try to aim and hit shots.

You want this to be a skilled class rewarded for leading targets and headshots when it’s stronger as a 3rd person fps and letting the aim assist do the work for you.

[snow bear]

giving archer a melee primary weapon would be so basedpilled

[ancient kayak]

Honestly, game is so broken right now and servers are so bad that every good archer I now complain about hit reg. It´s rare to find a good pc archer and when you do, they usually have to see their arrows going straight through peoples heads and not hitting them

I know because I like to use dane axe and the dane axe goes right through enemies bodies

Aim assist might not help when the archer has to full charge the arrow, but it damn work with the crossbow and just spamming arrows

[brazen olive]

Truuue, as someone that plays lots of katar

Using longbow is just as frustrating with the blatant phantom hits and terrible server tickrate

The servers are just not equipped to handle precise hitboxes

[ancient kayak]

I didn´t even say anything about the javelins. The thing goes flying 10 meters above your head and then suddenly it teleports inside your body and kills you

[rustic elk]

yeah but dude, you were dealing like 10 damage

that thing kills in two shots if you charge it

3 sometimes, more for knights

and once you learn the warbow you can kill anything without a shield

i would show you my gmaeplay but my game pass ran out lol
charged shots are a lot more effective tho

i'm also drunk rn

[vagrant eagle]

this is what i was talking about, the ps plus players are literally slaugthering people close up because the auto aim isnt crazy if decently far, it is literally almost aim bot up close.

they need to nerf it somewhat mostly on the close end, less on the far range

I know archers are weak and all, and they likely dont pose much of a threat to the entire team, but archer mains are obviously strong as hell and don't have enough counters. its also very depressing to see them switch to attacker for whatever reason to keep their KD perfect

[brazen olive]

Yes yes nerf aim assist it will make me look better :)

[brazen olive]

Maybe fewer people would switch if TB didn't make defense so unsatisfying!

SNIFFA

[tall heron]

This kinda stuff is indefensible, how you supposed to compete trying to aim when it’s easier to just not

Trying so hard to make non-melee classes feel impactful they’ve destroyed any semblance of balance. Game is easier and more rewarding as a 3rd person FPS

[wise kraken]

is that controller aim assist? actually evil

[tall heron]

Yes it is

[wise kraken]

jfc

[brazen olive]

If anyone needs timed out it's this guy lol

We heard you the first time, you don't have to say it 4 times

[vernal fjord]

nah i am the best fact teller here

will say it how much times i want since we live in a free world so shhh

[brazen olive]

This thread is about balance changes not your uncontrollable rage at the mere existence of archers

[vernal fjord]

and my opinion is archer related

acc its not an opinion its a fact

[brazen olive]

K

You don't have to state it 4 times in a row

Lmaoo thank you mods <3

[thorn robin]

Remove archers

[brazen olive]

SO brave

[tepid hinge]

Not going to happen.

[thorn robin]

See now that’s what the Masons want you to think

[tepid hinge]

No TB just not gonna do it.

[late forum]

Archers run the show here

[tepid hinge]

I wouldnt say all that lol.

[late forum]

Ain’t no getting pass em

[thorn robin]

He’s been brainwashed, unwash his brains!

[tepid hinge]

No i just dont get triggered over a character in a game.

Yeah it was 2 archers and 2 anti-archers that got muted lol.

[worn marsh]

100% wild isn’t it? That’s why X-Bow was so good with Controller. You can drag headshots with minimal Stam issues.

[lost hill]

https://discord.com/channels/209841695850889226/1112120800670130227

[rustic elk]

archers don't need an increased weapon swap speed

that'd be a huge buff, and it would make it harder for martials to punish archers

which would lower the skill floor of the class and allow archers to get away with having bad situational awareness and game sense

[vagrant eagle]

remove bows, crossbows, and javelins but leave the archer class

[brazen olive]

Agreed

That's the entire point of the knife

He would make it obsolete without buffs

[vagrant eagle]

buff throwing knife plox to 1 shot archers from the back

[worn marsh]

Doesn’t that turn the game into COD and that’s one of the talking point of Archers plying COD instead of Chiv?

[vagrant eagle]

Tis a joke

[worn marsh]

You put it in an anti archer thread, it 100% will non-ironically be used as a real suggestion in the future now.

[limber topaz]

TB should just fix the fact that the crossbow is unblockable when you throw it(unless u have a shield), crossbowman is mega overtuned

[limber topaz]

bro's tryna spread misinformation on this really good archer change suggestion thread

[worn marsh]

99% of the post in this format are Archer changes from non Archer players. It’s to be expected.

[limber topaz]

bro besides the person that posted it, almost all the people posting in this are archer players (i dont think he's read any of yalls discussion)

[lost hill]

with input from archer players who understand that being able to just sit there spamming into the enemy team, wracking up kills and elims without ever needing to fight...is a bit of an issue

[worn marsh]

Not at all, the majority of post here are toothless personal insults and misinformation.

I am pretty sure the post actually talking about Archers by Archers was productive.

[limber topaz]

i really like the skirmisher idea @unreal patrol i really think throwing axes need to be reworked as well, skirmishers altogether have had nothing changed to them since launch, how can a vanguard reload a throwing mallet as fast as he does and the the throwing axe class gets stuck

[limber topaz]

i already said misinformation u cant say it again

[worn marsh]

Lol when it’s 99% of the post I can.

[lost hill]

i think the simplest buff to throwing axes, is just more ammo. they serve a different purpose compared to javs, faster, but weaker damage.

you just dont get enough of them

[unreal patrol]

99% of statistics are made up on the spot.

[limber topaz]

give skirmisher throwing mallets

[worn marsh]

This post is a great example. But really nothing of value was added by Melee mains here.

Skirmish just needs Heavy Javs

[unreal patrol]

Anyway as the moderators have said, it would be best to simply block the unproductive members of this thread and not pay attention to their messages. Some people will always try to tear down efforts like this and they will be counter-productive and bait responses.

[worn marsh]

Yup ignore the people who only offer personal insults and censorship

[limber topaz]

yikes\

[unreal patrol]

And the bait will be relentless.

[limber topaz]

lmao

[unreal patrol]

And they will be as loud as they can and demand your attention.

And it's really going to be best for everyone if you don't give it to them.

[lost hill]

warbow has the niche of its range and damage

longbow has its niche of rate of fire

crossbow has its niche of safety (pavise and jumpshots)

skirmisher has its niche of being a hybrid

only one of these subclasses doesnt attract hate due to the counterplay being in a healthy state, i'll let you figure out which one.

[worn marsh]

FFA hates Jav lol

[brazen olive]

Welcome back everyone! 🙃

[unreal patrol]

😔

[limber topaz]

Skirmisher should have 5 throwing mallets as a primary weapon choice 🤓

[lost hill]

i think ideally balancing it around a total of 425 damage (jav stats without headshots). which i'd accept that math being done with armored classes in mind, since the throwing mallet decent in melee combat

[amber warren]

Give him 8

[tepid hinge]

We already know which ones have the most hate it has nothing to do with fighting style, warrior mechanics or the like. All it is that this community is filled with toxic players that get triggered over character in a game. If players hate these character so much take a break from the game and go outside.

[fathom aurora]

keep telling yourself that, and not that being hit with no reliable counter sucks for gameplay

[tepid hinge]

The anti-archer community is constantly triggered over archer I don't need to tell myself anything. These players constantly having meltdown in-game chat, here and reddit over a character in a game.

[tall heron]

There’s no healthy alternative which leads to 3 archer discussions after the 1st is shut down

And when community asks for one they give us volley

[tepid hinge]

I had the mods shutdown the first post it was mine from months ago. It was just a suggestion for a change and 2 toxic users came in and started to insult users because they didnt agree. I just realized there will be no civil discussion when the community is very toxic and half are anti-archer that get triggered over a character in a game.

[tall heron]

I would say it’s an aspect of the game they don’t like not just a character

It’s not about the class it’s about how not satisfying it is to die to arrows, Ill take team kills from a catapult over being shot from an enemy

[lost hill]

i would like to add that if there is an "anti-ANYTHING" community in a game. chances are its a mechanic/character/whatever that adds toxic elements to the gameplay

as @tall heron "i'll take team kills from a catapult over being shot from an enemy".

that sentence rings true for a lot of players.

[sharp root]

But not most

[lost hill]

most of the community has some sort of negative bias against archers. the vocal minority are the ones who dont want the game to improve with better interactions

[sharp root]

Most people think archers are more or less fine as they are and don’t get involved in such discussions because of it

It’s a difficult class to use with little impact when it is used

[brazen olive]

True, people content with things aren't gonna be in here

[sharp root]

For most archers who don’t have a negative KD half their kills happen in melee

[worn marsh]

I think a big thing is people don’t understand the difference between vocal minority and an echo chamber.

On here and Reddit

[sharp root]

And the reason why those archers with a negative KD have so is because they never swap to their secondary when they get charged

[worn marsh]

If the same 4 people spamming anti archer post suddenly posted pro Archer post the discord would look vastly different. That’s the power of seeing an echo chamber without pushback.

You begin to think your vocal minority represents the community and it’s wild.

[lost hill]

if archer is difficult to play, why do so many new players choose it?

i believe that the reason archer is chosen by new players, is because its easier to get value on, especially if you dont have a background in slashers

for the "most archer... half their kills happen in melee".. i find that quite hard to believe. and generally speaking, from a projectile class. takedowns are more accurate to look at than raw kills, as the speed of the reload/draw/traveltime, make it difficult to secure kills unless is someone who got downed.

to the archers who have negative kd, is probably becuase theyre new players. using archer as a way to be able to deal damage, since they do not have to juke their opponents with drags and feints.. this reinforces my point about newer players being drawn to archer as a source of easy effectiveness

[sharp root]

New players will understand something familiar to them more than a new concept

[lost hill]

i find it funny that you think everyone who says anything that isnt "buff archer" is instantly anti-archer.

[sharp root]

But once they figure out this "melee" concept they tend to stick with that

[tall heron]

This is all assuming it’s hard to miss shots which it is not with aim assist

[sharp root]

Because how much you can scale as an archer is drastically less than in melee

[tall heron]

Or become trolls at best

[lost hill]

the skill ceiling is lower, i'll agree on that, but the effectiveness only improves

for example, TO and you see someone 1v3, and theyre holding their own amazing. a really skilled player that is just wiping the floor with your team. and theyre not using a shield

you go archer and land 2 shots on them... the value gained from playing archer is that scenario is DRASTICALLY higher than if you were to go turn that into a 1v4 in melee

[sharp root]

If you can get into a position to get a shot on them

[worn marsh]

People who depend on Aim assists hit their skill celling fast.

New Players go to Archer first is because it is the easiest transition from the most popular (outside MOBA) genre on consoles and PC … FPS.

So you learn the flow, layout and general idea of the game better than getting destroyed by a 10,000 hour melee main.

[sharp root]

It isn't a given

Your team mates are all in the way

And you're hyperfocusing on that one guy

[tall heron]

How do you not focus the one that’s shooting dmg not blocked by active parry

[lost hill]

correct, but with practice its very do-able. maybe not consistently but do-able

and you have 3 players already hyperfocused on him, getting him out of the way frees up 3 players on your team.

playing archer against new players doesnt get as much value (since you'd be able to beat them in melee just as easy). but when you go against someone who is a better player, and understands how to counter-feint, archer's value goes up, because that player cannot outplay an arrow.

[lost hill]

he was refering to the archer focusing on the guy in the 1v3, (effectively a 1v4)

the issue is, even if that guy chose to try and focus the archer down, theres no way for him to get there, since he cant just tell the 3 guys he's fighting:

"hey, yall chill for a sec and let me run over there and fight that archer first, i'll be right back, i promise"

[tall heron]

As an archer why would I not shoot unblockable dmg into fights

[lost hill]

exactly, especially if you see someone who is good with counters and riposte, theyre going to be difficult to hit with anything else

[tall heron]

If you’re good at melee then you aren’t dying to melee, it’s being good enough in melee to die to arrows in a 1vX

[sharp root]

It's all positioning

You're describing a bad position

[lost hill]

but im also describing a very realistic and common position.

[sharp root]

And that archer has team mates getting in the way to deal with

[tall heron]

Positioning is ever evolving and even around objectives or manning catapults doesn’t mean you’re positioning is wrong

[lost hill]

my point being, if someone is skilled enough to 1v3 and stay alive. is it fair for that archer to be able to "outskill" that player because they have basic aiming skills? (or for console players, they just looked near them)

[tall heron]

Doing the objective puts you at risk to 1vXs and arrow’s because it’s where map tells everyone where they should put their attention. Picking up the gold at Coxwell puts me at risk but I’m not gonna not do it for the sake of keeping a good position

[sharp root]

Is it far for a catapult

Or a barrel

A lot of "unfair" stuff happens in this game

[tall heron]

The barrel is on you guys

[sharp root]

And the arrow isn't?

[tall heron]

One you can make blockable

[inner pecan]

On fire Sausage!

[late forum]

One it comes down to it i think archer is okay besides aim assist but again i’ve never had to deal with archer mains and if i did they weren’t a big deal

when*

[fathom aurora]

catapult is a set piece, barrels are short ranged, both are picked up by anyone on the map. Yes some unfair stuff happens but it shouldn't be built into a class.

[tall heron]

It’s up to TB how strong something in the game is not us

[lost hill]

catapult would have teamkilled 3 people. barrels are blockable as they are thrown weapons (active parry blocks them)

there arent too many "unfair" things

[fathom aurora]

i mean, good luck getting active parry while someone pelts you with a barrel

[lost hill]

too add to this a bit, showing the "teammates are in the way" is effectively null, a crossbow does 12 team damage.. but does 75 to a knight.

[sharp root]

But if it does 12 team damage it's doing 0 damage to that knight

So why would you go for the hard to hit target

When there's in all likelyhood someone else

Who doesn't have a bunch of your team around them

[lost hill]

it doesnt matter WHO i aim at.. the point being, it doesnt matter how skilled of a player they are, they cannot block the arrow without a shield, and the passive block of the shield is laughable at best.

i would take out priority targets that my teammates are having issues with, thats what archer EXCELS at.. taking out difficult target because the damage is unblockable without a shield.

[late forum]

basically a greatsword overhead

[lost hill]

but from range, and unblockable... sounds fair, right?

[sharp root]

And that’s fine

[late forum]

bring a shield!!

[lost hill]

is it though? every other class in game (melee) gets punished if they make a mistake, miss a riposte/counter.. eat a hit

miss an arrow shot?.. nock a new one and try again.

[late forum]

and slow walk to them

[tall heron]

Playing a 1h feels disgusting

[sharp root]

That’s conflating defensive moves with offensive moves

[lost hill]

3 subclasses in game have a shield. all of them are reduced to 1 handed weapons. shields are also quite risky to take into fights due to the "guardbreak" mechanic making you eat a free shot.

[late forum]

1h in TO feelsbadman

[late forum]

in duels 1h is gross

[tall heron]

After a certain lvl having that fast recovery is boring

[fathom aurora]

well no one gets to use defensive moves against arrows

beside the 2/9 melee classes

[lost hill]

because theyre one in the same. the point being, if you mess up the mechanic. you eat a hit

doesnt matter if you block it, riposte it, counter it... you didnt take the damage.

someone shoots an arrow at you and you dont have a shield.. you take the damage.

[sharp root]

If you miss a swing you don’t get hit…

Which would be the real comparison here

[tall heron]

Punishing misses in melee more likely than you think

[lost hill]

okay, the lets go with your comparison

i miss a swing, my opponent has initiative due to recovery

i miss an arrow, i still have initiative because my opponent isnt in range to take that initiative

[sharp root]

Your opponent may not have initiative if you combo

They have a very brief window and if they aren’t expecting the miss they won’t have initiative

[lost hill]

if you miss a melee hit, your opponent CAN punish you for it... if you miss an arrow, your opponent CANNOT punish you for it.

see the difference?

[sharp root]

Well they can given a certain set of circumstances

[tall heron]

The bravery of being out of range

[sharp root]

Then again they’ll still punish you even if you hit them as an archer

[lost hill]

would you list those please?

[sharp root]

Being close

[lost hill]

if your close, and i have no teammates around. there is no arrow to miss. i have my secondary out. and you dont get to punish it.

[sharp root]

Well that’s not most archers

Most archers have 4 brain cells

And won’t have their secondary out

[fathom aurora]

you cant balance around the new players. skill will trend up

[sharp root]

Oh this was before the PS+ month

[lost hill]

so "archer is balanced because new players use it and theyre bad". am i understanding that correctly?

[sharp root]

Well we can’t balance it on the assumption that everyone is keeper now can we

[lost hill]

thats the thing, you do.

[tall heron]

Being good enough in melee to die to arrows is the balance

[late forum]

real

[lost hill]

you dont balance something off the lower end of the playerbase. you balance it off the potential it offers

[fathom aurora]

you balance around people with two braincells to rub together

at least

[sharp root]

The vast majority of my deaths are by the hands of players who do not outskill me

Why would I focus on one particular aspect of that

It’s TO

[lost hill]

and you dont see the issue with that?

[sharp root]

If I did I would be complaining about a whole lot more than just archers

So why aren’t you

[lost hill]

then start. the only way to improve the game is bring the flaws to light.

[sharp root]

That’s your opinion that it’s an improvement

[tall heron]

Because arrows aren’t blocked by active parry

[sharp root]

Based on your perception of what this game is trying to do

[fathom aurora]

not worth continuing this, lemon is fine with dropping dead at random like it's interesting gameplay.

[lost hill]

why would the game have so many skill expressive mechanics that reward skilled players and fairly punishing those who do not have that skill...

then have archers in the same game. that are able to punish players of ALL skill levels, without much skill involved?

[sharp root]

Well I never have any problems with archers

I will kill every archer in TO more than he will kill me

And I’m happy with that

[lost hill]

until you go against an archer that has.. get this.. 8 BRAIN CELLS and you get ran over by the spawn wave

[tall heron]

If arrows worked like melee and were blocked by active parry and had a chance to down that would be a start

[sharp root]

Well I never try to go after specific archers

So I’m not in view of their spawn waves and the archers sitting back there

Almost all objectives are either miles away or out of sight from spawns

Those archers are shooting players who get lost

[lost hill]

for you to kill the archer. you have to do SEVERAL things right.

for the archer to survive your attempt and laugh as you get surrounded by the gank squad surrounding you. all they have to do is survive for 10s or so.

[tall heron]

Except for the spawns right on top of the objective

[sharp root]

I suppose landing 3 throwing knives does count as “several” things

[lost hill]

this is objectively false. there have been times where i spawn and there are enemy players BEHIND me.

[sharp root]

How does that disprove that statement?

Got nothing to do with it

[lost hill]

congrats, you found archers that stand still. i'll give you the first one for free

but once i realize i was hit by a throwing knife, my secondary is out and i can block them.

[sharp root]

And now I can move forwards?

[lost hill]

correct, but again. all the archer has to do is survive, since you are now in their backlines and are very likely to be surrounded by people who wish to remove you.

[tall heron]

We should do the same thing and expect different results, sure player base will stick around

[sharp root]

I wouldn’t be in a situation where I’m anywhere near their back lines

So all the archers I find aren’t there

And I don’t get shot by those back line ones

[lost hill]

so.. youre killing out of position archers, and jsut "dont get shot" by the ones who are positioned correctly?

[late forum]

Think the problem is he hasn’t dealt with competent players

[tall heron]

How you even do the objective like that?

[lost hill]

BINGO

[sharp root]

Because they’re not shooting the objective

[late forum]

if they have any awareness

[tall heron]

No way

[late forum]

give them a month or two

These are the fortnite kids

[lost hill]

so far, the defense of "archer being fine" is that the players who choose archer, are usually pretty bad, because again:

new player tend to play archer because its the easiest to get value on.

[sharp root]

You know what screw it

They are outskilling you

[worn marsh]

It’s always been the issue

[sharp root]

With better portioning and overall awareness

[lost hill]

dont forget "unblockable damage"

[sharp root]

One advantage to counter their very high miss chance and very low DPS

[worn marsh]

This solves 100% of the complaints in this thread

But it isn’t fun and doesn’t kill Archers.

[late forum]

I guess i’ll get out skilled by someone that’s shooting great sword overheads from 40m

[lost hill]

one of my favorite things to do as archer (specifically bow/crossbow) is to shoot player who just spawn, as they either come into the fight lower on health, or without their bandage

just hitting a knight coming out of spawn for 175 damage is getting value that the scoreboard wont even show

[tall heron]

Playing a 1h is gross

[sharp root]

Which they can do at best once every 5 seconds

[worn marsh]

How do you counter a cat shot from 40 m?

[sharp root]

Provided they don’t miss

[late forum]

cata?

[worn marsh]

You aren’t hitting a knight for 175 unless they are AFK lmao

[fathom aurora]

shoot the projectile

[sharp root]

You can block a catapult with a shield technically

It doesn’t work

But it counts as a block

[late forum]

cata i’ll just move out the way

[lost hill]

once every 5 seconds? you can reload the crossbow in like 2 seconds, the longbow is FAST.

[worn marsh]

Assuming you see it right?

[late forum]

don’t need to counter it

[sharp root]

You were talking about 70 damage

The warbow

That’s 5 seconds to get that

[tall heron]

Game is gonna go the way all melee slashers before it have gone. It’s gonna be good by the time the game is dead when bugs are fixed and no one plays archer

[lost hill]

sorry, i misstyped. 75 damage, which is the crossbow.

[worn marsh]

He is making up stuff he can’t do as an example of what the class can do.

[late forum]

flashbacks

[sharp root]

Against knights only

They nerfed the crossbow base damage down to 50

[late forum]

Knights are always low on hp

and move slow btw

[lost hill]

and footman, and its still 60 damage iirc for vangaurds, and 67 for archers.

[sharp root]

I thought it was 67 for footmen too

Plus I thought the modifier on knights is +50%

[lost hill]

it could be, i dont play crossbow often so im not to adept on values

[sharp root]

Making base damage 50

Or is the crossbow an axe now or something

[lost hill]

but regardless, thats usually around what, 40% of a players hp, unblockable. from range, shortly after they spawn?

[worn marsh]

Why would you shoot a knight also? Worst use of your shots at that distance.

[sharp root]

Shoot an archer in the face

[late forum]

Because crossbow and one shot

[worn marsh]

Also not counting bracing reduction? Couldn’t be

[sharp root]

I usually use the crossbow close anyway

[late forum]

no active parry

[lost hill]

do you hold block coming out of spawn?

[late forum]

in the back

[sharp root]

Blocking projectiles on active parry would be silly

[tall heron]

I couldn’t imagine using the crossbow

[late forum]

there covered in blood easy to see low

[lost hill]

now that gets a lot more lethal, due to the frequency of headshots.

[worn marsh]

Crossbow isn’t for spawn camping at all, this whole example is peak “I don’t play this class but it’s broken because of this scenario”

[late forum]

crossbow is for knights

[lost hill]

or, hear me out. i play archer differently than you.

[sharp root]

You play it sniping

Which is the least effective use

Yet you call any other playstyle as “out of position”

[lost hill]

i dont snipe with it, usually mid range-ish

but i always have a group of teammates in front of me, and im usually playing off high-ground.

[worn marsh]

He told me my playstyle was wrong also and he is out here trying to spawn camp knights.

[sharp root]

If you want to not die for sure

[lost hill]

when did i tell you your playstyle is wrong?

[sharp root]

Best place to be

[late forum]

place the banner run back

[worn marsh]

Crossbow is made for head glitches to be played best.

And the countless one ways in the game

[lost hill]

i usually place the banner as the team is forced to fall back, kind of mental trick to show friendlies "you have support here, please dont go further back"

[worn marsh]

That’s a wasted banner then. You drop at where the AoE tip is the front line

[inner pecan]

knights 50% and footman 35%

[tall heron]

Touching a crossbow should make your character explode

[late forum]

after you kill a couple enemies they just give up trying to get you lol

[worn marsh]

It should be a prompt now “ nerfed with no off setting buff, are you sure you want to play”

[sharp root]

You can heal yourself with the banner if you don’t run away from it too

[lost hill]

if my team is falling back, chances are theyre lower on health and dropping in numbers. dropping that banner makes sure that:

1. i have time to get to safety
2. theyre full health and able to stand with the reinforcement coming with the spawn wave
3. even if the enemies push that far, theyre likely going to stop to kill the banner, making for an easy shot

[late forum]

i’ll take the free points

[sharp root]

Wait so you only place banners when your defending team is falling back?

And get what like a 100 point banner?

At best

[tall heron]

Game rewards the least risky class with the most

[worn marsh]

I would love to play crossbow players who set their healing banners for retreating front lines.

Massively reduced healing lol

[lost hill]

depends on the situation is when i used it, if my team is solid in numbers and holding a strong line, i'll run up and drop it for them.

but im often not going to relieve my pressure of bolts just to take the 10+ seconds to run up and drop a banner, let alone the time it takes to get back to a safer archer position.

[sharp root]

You create a safer position with that banner

[worn marsh]

That sounds like you are playing Warbow distance with a crossbow

[sharp root]

As you are healing and all your team around you is healing

[lost hill]

we're getting really far off point btw

if i shoot someone who just came out of spawn, im instantly getting value, because that damage cannot be returned, and im softening someone and forcing resource use PRIOR to even getting to the fight.

[worn marsh]

Crossbow should play at the tip of the AOE circle opposite the tip of the front line. That’s the correct

[sharp root]

You’re shooting a person who just spawned

From your spawn

That’s like 200m

[late forum]

so archers have banners? what’s up with that

[sharp root]

Or more

[lost hill]

not from my spawn, from the high ground.

[late forum]

promoting your teammates to stay by you

[worn marsh]

Not many high grounds that overlook spawns.

[lost hill]

youre trying to put words in my mouth, no once have i said im sitting behind my spawn.

most of my shots are in the 30-40m range

[late forum]

last stage kill the duke rudhelm i think?

that’s a good one

there’s a few

[worn marsh]

What level is your crossbow? Because from your gameplay it seems like maybe 100?

[lost hill]

there are a lot more than you'd think, i suggest trying it out. its really fun way to spook players who just spawned with a nice 40% of their health gone as soon as they start running.

[late forum]

bruh the new players have found more

[lost hill]

see keeper, heres the issue with your thought process. you think that time played=game knowledge and skill

thats not how that works.

[worn marsh]

You didn’t answer bud

[lost hill]

because youre asking a question that is strictly based on ego.

[worn marsh]

No it’s based in game experience, an archer with level 309 is going to better than 87 strictly off par experiences if he is working to improve.

[tall heron]

Keeper is obsessed with numbers

[late forum]

Archer is aim dependent

[tall heron]

Don’t share shit not worth it, doesn’t even prove his point

[tepid hinge]

How is asking warrior level or weapon an ego question.

[fathom aurora]

you say anything too low and your opinion doesn't matter

[late forum]

My archers is only like 40?

[lost hill]

look i have over 7000 hours in tf2 (through many years of playing it).. and i played competitive at a pretty high level..

i would commonly see players at a higher skill bracket, that had a fraction of my timed played

because they spent their time learning new things, where i spent a lot of time rocket jumping.

[worn marsh]

That’s not an answer it’s deflection

[lost hill]

tell me how the question has any merit, what would it prove?

[worn marsh]

What’s your in game name?

[fathom aurora]

@lost hill answer and watch

[worn marsh]

Would you trust a level 1000 Knight over a level 70?

[late forum]

Level doesn’t matter when you play archer

[fathom aurora]

not blindly

[tepid hinge]

Actually it does lol.

[tall heron]

Don’t tell the #1 archer that 😭

[lost hill]

oh i know exactly what is going to happen

they cant accept that someone plays the game differently. calling it inferior, and is going to default to "im a higher level, therefore i know more and im a better player"

[worn marsh]

I’m not sure why he won’t say his name

[fathom aurora]

I just wanna see it happen

[late forum]

i guess to unlock war bow but besides that

[tall heron]

He doesn’t have to look up your own stats

[worn marsh]

I’m guessing it’s because he probably doesn’t even have the Warbow unlocked

[tepid hinge]

Its has nothing to do bout unlocking anything.

[late forum]

then explain what you mean?

[lost hill]

i can tell you exactly whats going to happen..

"LOL youre still a new player, theres no way you understand basic positioning like youve been playing competitive games longer than ive probably been alive!!"

[late forum]

aim and click

[fathom aurora]

I KNOW I wanna see it

[worn marsh]

How weird all this archer talk and you are the one dancing on the out of bounds line now lol

[lost hill]

oh one condition. when he uses level as a debate topic. he gets muted again.

[sharp root]

That’s what you said when you called archers that don’t play like you as “out of position”

[worn marsh]

I know it’s under 200 with your talk so it won’t change

[fathom aurora]

oooo

[tepid hinge]

If that how you think archers work you have no idea how archers work.

[fathom aurora]

under 200

[lost hill]

if an archer doesnt have teammates ANYWHERE near them, theyre out of position.

[late forum]

explain then please

[inner pecan]

I will say this a persons level doesnt mean all that much. They can be lvl 1000 and still be wrong about a weapon they constantly use

[tall heron]

Archers don’t work that’s how they work

[sharp root]

I suppose that’s a better statement

[worn marsh]

I’m headed to watch TV, I will check if he manned up

[late forum]

actually they work quite well lol

[worn marsh]

About 2 hours good luck

[tall heron]

It’s not work when it comes so easy

[final orbit]

if you play with controller u dont need to aim, u just click the funny button

[late forum]

just need to aim

[sharp root]

We can all say our archer levels

[tepid hinge]

Dont need to explain anything its obvious you have no idea what ur talking bout.

[sharp root]

I’m archer level 43

[tall heron]

They playing a PvE game while everyone else is playing a slasher

[late forum]

Explain please

[sharp root]

Keeper is probably 700 or something

[late forum]

what does level have to do with archer?

[sharp root]

I dunno

[fathom aurora]

Idk, level 20 or 30. you don't need to be a michelin star chef to know you've been served a shit sandwich

[late forum]

someone tell me

[lost hill]

thats why i was pushing the point of "the archer just needs to survive".

and i'd have to re-open my game, im in the 40s i think. i dont worry to much about levels

i have everything on every class unlocked, thats the goal, now its just play what i feel like.

[late forum]

stop holding out on me!!!

[sharp root]

Why does it matter the archer lives

[late forum]

stop edging me joker

[sharp root]

So his KD looks good?

[fathom aurora]

well apparently it's super important and top secret and means everything to the archer ego skill

[late forum]

you have to be level 1000 archer to know how to aim and click

[tall heron]

I’d have to reinstall to even check my archer lvl

[lost hill]

because youre suiciding to relieve the pressure of unblockable damage

thats not a fair trade off

[sharp root]

Why go for the cowardly archer

When there are plenty of other targets

[late forum]

@worn marsh can you tell me? joker won’t

[lost hill]

i can block everyone else's damage, i cant block that cowardly archers damage.

[fathom aurora]

because they keep shooting me with unblockable damage

[tall heron]

Because the game constantly tell you to

[sharp root]

So don’t make it your job to go after him

[inner pecan]

you uninstalled???? 😭

[sharp root]

That’s why he’s shooting you

You’re feeding him

[final orbit]

because they shoot unblockable damage at you ruining your killstreaks while youre slapping dudes around in melee antiganking like a god, its infuriating as shit

[lost hill]

then. no one is going after him and he's freely firing unblockable damage..?

[tall heron]

Got the new Zelda

[sharp root]

And achieving next to nothing compared to everyone else on their team

[inner pecan]

that makes sense id do the same lol

[sharp root]

You’re going after that archer out of some sense of justice?

[late forum]

I think archers are fine btw but don’t kid yourself thinking it’s a hard class in TO

[lost hill]

thats because theyre not good archers

its not uncommon for me to be top 5 on my team as crossbow archer.

[sharp root]

So why go out of your way to charge them

[late forum]

I’d go as far as saying easy even

[lost hill]

why go out of your way to go to the objective?

[tepid hinge]

I dont need to explain anything to you if you dont know u dont know stop trolling lol.

[late forum]

My brother just tell me

what does level have to do with archers

[tepid hinge]

not ur bro and again dont need to explain anything to u

[late forum]

That your point is null

[tepid hinge]

and ur trolling is pointless

[lost hill]

your* you*

and what does keeper say, answer and stop dodging? something like that

[late forum]

Archer mains can’t even answer a civil question

[upper otter]

lol this post got so degen

[late forum]

How am i trolling

[lost hill]

youre like 4 days late for that one lol

[late forum]

i asked a real question

[tepid hinge]

this is discord not school dnt care bout grammar dont like to reed it lol

[tepid hinge]

not an archer main

[tepid hinge]

i dont care what keeper says if i dont want to answer i wont dont like it dont care lol

[lost hill]

youre not an archer main, im surprised keeper hasnt tried to run you off yet.

[late forum]

so again archer level doesn’t matter

you can’t back it up because there’s no reason

not answering is an answer

🤯

[inner pecan]

Also even a person can be lvl 1000 but actually not be all that good in the game

[tepid hinge]

because i am not an anti-archer. archer is one of 3 classes i use

[lost hill]

thats the whole take away from this. your level in game really doesnt change much once you get past 20 or so, by then. youve have the unlocks. youve played the class enough to get a feel and understand its strengths and weaknesses. etc

[late forum]

real

[inner pecan]

Like our old man Jinxxee lol

[late forum]

Point and click

yes lol

[fathom aurora]

you've got this idea that everyone hates archers and doesn't just want all classes to be balanced and fair to play.

[tepid hinge]

actually no its not it just no answer lol

[tall heron]

Aim assist points for you

[late forum]

yes it is

Point and click

Level 10

[lost hill]

ive seen archers nailing shots and theyre not even level 10, that aim assist isnt "assist".. its AIM BOT

[tepid hinge]

it not an idea its from experience from the game, here and reddit with anti-archer constantly having meltdowns over archers.

[late forum]

you don’t need aim assist you just need aim

[upper otter]

vocal minority

[late forum]

although aim assist is dumb

[lost hill]

thats the problem. one requires skilled input. one requires a controller.

[tepid hinge]

if you think that how archer works u have no idea what ur talking about.

[fathom aurora]

we're not complaining for the sake of it, it's because in a game with such good combat systems gets broken by a class that has free damage. You just see everyone not sucking off archers as some kind of enemy

[late forum]

how does it work then

do you swing the cross bow?

can someone explain how archer works

[upper otter]

both sides have some not so happy ppl judging by the constant light insulting that goes on in these archer posts lol

[tepid hinge]

you dont just aim at players like i said u have no idea what ur talking bout lol

[lost hill]

archer has its place in game. and its crucial to balance

the issue comes from the interaction between archer and other classes in typically HEAVILY in the archer's favor to a point that it feels unfair to the other classes.

[tall heron]

Also downplay archers annoying at best when they can 2 shot

[late forum]

I’ve been playing archer wrong

[inner pecan]

Honestly most people do just cause they die to it and want the class to be gone.

[late forum]

you don’t shoot arrows you don’t do nothing

[fathom aurora]

one side has valid reasons to suggest changes, the other has keeper doing keeper things

[tepid hinge]

explain what free damage you talking? huh

[fathom aurora]

all the arrows

[tepid hinge]

what about arrors

[late forum]

again i think archers are fine but don’t kid yourself

i’m not anti archer either

[lost hill]

the arrows cannot be blocked without a shield, and the passive block on the shields is unreliable at best

so in order to block the arrows, you have to risk being kicked and eating a free melee hit

shield or not, its lose-lose when you have an archer looking at you.

[fathom aurora]

the unblockable ones? The one's that need specific equipment to fight in a game where every weapon can fight every other weapon

[tepid hinge]

So you guys are getting up set that you cant block arrows. wow lmao

[tall heron]

They got too much potential from range, not downing players, hardest thing to counter in the game, not blocked by active parry, head shot bonus

[fathom aurora]

yes? That's the entire point and I'm not sure what else you thought it was

[lost hill]

not that you cant block arrows, but the safety of the archer that is firing them. archers do not have to put themselves at risk in order to GET that unblockable damage

[tall heron]

They make the class with the least risk the most rewarding

[fathom aurora]

also that they do it from pure safety

[final orbit]

and it requires zero skill playing archer with controller

literally zero skill

[lost hill]

i would say one of the highest potentials, i wouldnt say its the most rewarding, due to being single target.

[tepid hinge]

That is the most silliest thing I have ever heard. If you guys have that much issues with getting shot by arrow its not the game its yall lack of awareness. I dont have any issues with playing against archers lol.

[lost hill]

even if im aware of the archer, how does that prevent them from shooting me?

[tepid hinge]

Its called moving around not that hard

[late forum]

aim assist

[tall heron]

Is there not enough of the community to have a game mode or no archer playlist?

[late forum]

i mean aiming only works at high level?

[lost hill]

1. aim assist
2. skilled archers
3. im in a melee fight, i cant footwork my opponent AND the archer at the same time

[tepid hinge]

aim assist is only strong on console and only works that under 30 meters

[late forum]

you shouldn’t be much further then that anyways

[lost hill]

how far can a 2h spear reach?

[tall heron]

Probably a little further than that

[late forum]

so perfect

[tepid hinge]

then you need better awareness.

[late forum]

null

[fathom aurora]

This is the bad faith keeper goes on about

[upper otter]

so if you are aware of the archer what are your reactions to such

[tepid hinge]

stop trying to target archers and move around.

[lost hill]

alright guys, i figured it out...

type "HEY ARCHER, I SEE YOU!" and their bow wont let them shoot at you.

[tall heron]

Best way to deal with an archer is don’t

[tepid hinge]

if i am archer i shoot them if I am melee get out their site.

[fathom aurora]

just die

[tall heron]

If you see an archer say something

[lost hill]

best way to deal with nuclear waste being dumped in the water way, is to dont.

[final orbit]

so you dont give a shit about playing the objective, cool

[upper otter]

with so many open areas for archers and most objectives (if not all) being in their direct site line... what do?

[final orbit]

sometimes you gotta put yourself at risk of getting shot if you wanna play the objective

[tepid hinge]

who said that

[tall heron]

Play something else?

[fathom aurora]

no he gets behind all that cover that every objective has

[lost hill]

name an objective that has enough cover for 32 people...

[late forum]

best way to deal with them is too avoid at all cost so you don’t look like piper pierre surrounded

[tepid hinge]

you guys lack so much awareness in this game and blaming a class for your mishaps lol.

[upper otter]

so i just dont counter it i just get shot. my reaction to knowing an archer may hit me is: get shot

[final orbit]

you eat crayons

[tall heron]

Let them keep their perfect KD guys

[fathom aurora]

how do I get this point across without getting muted

[lost hill]

youve yet to point out how awareness is going to save you from the archer

[late forum]

I just can’t block arrows

[tall heron]

The war bow will handle them

[fathom aurora]

nvm noodle did it for me

[late forum]

give me something to work with that doesn’t change my class

[tall heron]

Just let the warbow do everything

[tepid hinge]

by knowing where the archer is and staying out of their site its not that hard lol.

[lost hill]

its impossible. and that would get you arrested, not muted. assisting natural selection is illegal.

[upper otter]

you cant tho. you will get no where

[fathom aurora]

all 6 of them all the time

[upper otter]

they hold all objective site lines and battle areas as well

[late forum]

you let archers win

[lost hill]

the archer can see the entire objective. so.. youre not playing the objective.

[late forum]

they run the show here

[tepid hinge]

i do it every game and it works just fine.

[fathom aurora]

just hide in a corner I guess

[late forum]

i said it before

[tepid hinge]

actually I am

[upper otter]

if thats your source of information we will get no where. ggs

[late forum]

there the victims

[tall heron]

It’s just like the chiv reddit

[fathom aurora]

fuckin' kitty pride over here phasing through arrows

[tepid hinge]

then you need to work on ur game

[lost hill]

record your gameplay please. clearly youre playing a much better game than the rest of us. you should show us where we're misplaying so we can improve.

[late forum]

amen

[sharp root]

Some games I don't even get shot

let alone killed by an archer

[late forum]

game you playing?

[sharp root]

Battlefield 2042

[tall heron]

He’s probably playing sober

[late forum]

lol

[lost hill]

keep in mind, just because YOU arent getting shot... doesnt mean your team isnt.

[final orbit]

if you managed to stay alive for longer in melee you'd get shot eventually

[tepid hinge]

fine by I been wanting to record some gameplay to help others.\

[sharp root]

Or I just don't walk into archers

alone

surrounded by enemies

[lost hill]

should take what, about a day to get some raw footage up? i'll be looking forward to it.

[tall heron]

Maybe it’s your region Lemon

[sharp root]

OCE is higher skilled

[lost hill]

thats the secret cap'... you dont have to walk into the archer

[fathom aurora]

playing training

[final orbit]

i dont walk into archers either, but i play the objective and i get ganked a lot for doing so. if you get good at antiganking youre gonna get shot a lot cuz archers see you as a high priority target.

[late forum]

where do all the archer mains reside

[tall heron]

You don’t have knights and vanguards picking up crossbows and javelins

[upper otter]

factual information

[lost hill]

now THAT is the scary part... its like a super archer.

[tall heron]

He’s not playing the same bullet hell game we playing

No wonder

[lost hill]

one thing i will say... archer feels better to play as/against in 20v20...

[late forum]

wonder why

Less of them lol

[tepid hinge]

so thats what ur doing then you going into a crowd of enemies trying to be a hero and just painting a target on ur head and then complaining about it lol.

[final orbit]

no, i rarely charge crowds alone, but i tend to stay alive in the moshpit way longer than my teammates

[fathom aurora]

I guess I can avoid the archers too if I hide in a corner all game

[upper otter]

every reaction of yours is an assumption on the worst end of the spectrum lul

[final orbit]

and then im suddenly alone vs 5 angry dudes and a bunch of archers shooting me on top of everything

[lost hill]

not just that. the maps feel better designed for 20v20, when you get too many people, chokepoints become BOTTLENECKS where you cant even walk through them (even if you were invincable) due to how many players are shoved in them body blocking.

[late forum]

lot of people play hide and seek

[fathom aurora]

Keeper, mostly

[tepid hinge]

doesnt matter that kind of play is literally what archer players are looking for lol.

[tepid hinge]

didnt say that either.

[final orbit]

yea they ruin the fun for skilled players, thats what theyre best at

[late forum]

get some safe kill and then bandage in cover

[final orbit]

fucking cancer

[tepid hinge]

no its just logically thinking to playing the game.

[late forum]

boring but effective

[tall heron]

If you’re good at the melee you’re not dying to melee

[fathom aurora]

if everything hits you you don't notice the arrows

[lost hill]

each player plays this game differently. no 2 players are going to play the exact same. and thats a good thing

some archers will spend their entire game 1 shotting other archers with the warbow... while some archers use the longbow and just PUMP arrows into the moshpits

[final orbit]

yea like 75% of my deaths are to arrows, throwing knives or flying dane axes

[tepid hinge]

No its litterally part of the game is TO not duels.

[final orbit]

its a bad part of the game cuz its too safe and requires little skill

[late forum]

In order to play against archers you have to play super safe

[lost hill]

youre seemingly missing the biggest issue

skilled melee player, able to fight multiple players in melee combat, and even win

average archer. able to kill that skilled melee player with 0 risk

[tepid hinge]

obviously you are not noticing if your complaining about arrows hitting u.

[fathom aurora]

yeah cos the swords don't that much 👍

[lost hill]

that was nice of you to compliment badger, i think thats the first nice thing ive seen you do

[late forum]

Archers also have UAV btw

[tepid hinge]

Majority of archers especially new player archer using aim into a crowd.

[fathom aurora]

[tepid hinge]

its TO nothing bout TO is skill based.

[final orbit]

cope lmao

[late forum]

then what does level have to do with it?

[final orbit]

youre just exposing yourself for being a shitter the more you talk

[lost hill]

i dont aim into a crowd... aim small, miss small

depending on what ranged weapon im using will vary my playstyle.

with longbow, i'll lob arrows into the fray getting free damage in and just softening everyone up

warbow: counter archer, and aim for fresh spawns when no archers are visable

crossbow. isolate a single player (ideally a knight) and land large chunks of unblockable damage, removing the advantage their class has

[tepid hinge]

I am not missing the point TO is a team mode not 1v1. archer class isnt a risky class they are a support class.

[lost hill]

archer isnt a support class, its a protected class

you arent the support, youre the one being supported.

[tepid hinge]

there is nothing to cope TO isnt a skill based mode lol.

[lost hill]

lets look at a MOBA, any moba of your choice (yeah, eww.. i know)

you are considered the adc as an archer... a well protected source of damage

[tall heron]

This game is anti skill based

[final orbit]

archer is the skill equaliser class for casual console gamers, crayon eaters and shitters who wanna get kills without putting themselves at risk or learn the game mechanics

[late forum]

If it was skilled based we wouldn’t be playing against archers.

[lost hill]

i bet you never open your scoreboard. and just hold W running to your death every time you spawn

if you dont think TO has skill involved, youre playing AN EXTREMELY casual game.

[tepid hinge]

I didnt say u did I generalized that majority of archers aim into crowd to have better chance at getting kills.

[tall heron]

Or abuse them

[final orbit]

sounds like cope to me. if it wasnt skill based most players win/loss rate would be pretty much 50/50

[lost hill]

hey.. i happen to resemble that remark

even though i main skirmisher

[late forum]

archers are there to keep higher skilled people from doing better

for balancing if you will

[final orbit]

to be fair skirmisher is the least cancerous of the 3 archer subclasses

[lost hill]

and thats the issue. the archer themselves do not have to be skilled in the slightest.

[tepid hinge]

some archers play like that but not all. I like the risk going into battle with i am archer is fun.

[late forum]

try telling that to a archer main

[lost hill]

yeah, ive yet to have players complain about me on skirmisher. im often top 5 on my team. and enjoy the hybrid style

i often get commends when i fight in melee and win

[tepid hinge]

actually is support class. they support teammates against other archers and help when teammates getting ganked.

[lost hill]

thats COMING from an archer main

[tepid hinge]

Not sure what the W key does I play with controller on PC and no i dont die a lot. This is a very casual game and thats I play very casual.

[late forum]

Archer that’s self aware, crazy

[lost hill]

theyre the damage source. they require protection and positioning to be safe. and without their team, theyre easy to kill

do they have supportive aspects.. yeah crossbowman has banner!

[late forum]

Skirmisher is a challenging class

[lost hill]

so.. we could make changes to archer and it wouldnt effect your gameplay...yet your here for some reason?

[tepid hinge]

not really. just because of player try so hard at this game doesnt make it a skilled based game lol.

[fathom aurora]

actually deluded

[late forum]

no comment

[final orbit]

take your meds

[tepid hinge]

not all archer need protection and not all archers are easy kills.

[lost hill]

my tip for people wanting to get into at a baseline, is to play it with the mindset that youre an ambusher

look to punish players who arent paying attention with your thrown. and melee when you need to/out of ammo

[tall heron]

But all archers can kill easily

[late forum]

rarely is a archer a easy kill lmao

[final orbit]

this is the core of the problem. Its way too easy playing archer. Low risk, high reward

[late forum]

there’s always teammates, they have a side arm, am likely already weak

[tepid hinge]

archer class has been nerfed because of anti-archer meltdowns. just because players make a few suggestion you dont like does't mean we trying to buff them.

[lost hill]

youre right. running through the entire enemy team. just to get to someone who can (if theyre not a brand new player) can still kill you in melee

thats not easy.... but you know what IS easy... aiming a bow.

[final orbit]

This dude plays with controller on PC, he doesnt need to aim, he just clicks the funny button and the game aims for him

[late forum]

he set himself up there

[lost hill]

what i personally am asking for... is a balance change, they lose some, they gain some...

what keeper is asking for.. its a STRAIGHT UP BUFF

[late forum]

i said no comment lol

[final orbit]

he is a gigashitter completely detached from reality lmao

[late forum]

The idea of killing a low stam and health class seems easy enough but hear me there are people also trying to kill me

[tepid hinge]

Aim a bow and accuracy are 2 completely different things. The only reason console make it look easy is because of aim assist overpowered aim bot.

[lost hill]

dont forget the 30-40m (on average) that you have to cross.. to climb a ladder (eating a free hit)... THEN fight the archer in melee combat...

[tepid hinge]

archer has already been nerfed almost a year ago.

[late forum]

yeah

[lost hill]

aim and accuracy are 2 different things... right...

and walking and moving are 2 different things too.

[late forum]

They go hand and hand

[tepid hinge]

what system are you on?

[tepid hinge]

no they dont.

[lost hill]

PC... and yes.. .accuracy and aim go hand and hand

if you cant aim. you have no accuracy. if you CAN aim.. you are accurate.

[deep viper]

I think... In Medival Warfare we have 3 bows and 3 crossbows. I have a question: Will everyone be added to Chivalry 2?

[late forum]

it’s a rough pathway

[tepid hinge]

you have actually used archer?

[brazen olive]

I hope so! I need the shortbow 🙏

And the sling was amazing!

[inner pecan]

I want sling too